| IVOD_ID |
15916 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15916 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-15T08:31:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-15T14:33:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
06:01:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d43dc8870a7b167e22042dc10dca826773be8d109af184be4ad94c91bb585bac75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）執行現況」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:02 - 14:33:00 |
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1812.811 |
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報告委員會初期委員11人已足法定人數我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議事錄 |
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1823.004 |
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1851.421 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議．事由．使今中華民國113年5月13日﹐星期一上午9時3分至11時25分﹐地點紅蘆山林一會議是﹐出席委員盧美琳等11人﹐列席委員鄭天才等10人﹐列席人員國家安全局副局長許錫祥﹐外交部政務次長田中光﹐主席馬昭吉委員文君﹐報告事項一宣讀上次會議意思路決定確定﹐二﹐ |
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1852.822 |
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1878.251 |
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邀請國家安全局外交部報告．大陸領導人習近平訪歐後．國際關係變化對我國安之影響．並備質詢。國家安全局副局長許錫祥及外交部政務次長田中光報告．委員吳敏林等13人質詢．均由國家安全局副局長許錫祥．外交部政務次長田中光．歐洲司司長黃軍耀及臨時事務局局長何振環等即席答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1879.251 |
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1899.528 |
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決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員所提口頭及書面質詢未及答覆或要求提供之資訊請相關機關於二週內以書面答覆本會全體委員便複製本會委員應指定期限則從其所定三委員王洪威所提書面質詢列入記錄肯定公報宣讀完畢 |
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1905.883 |
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1916.465 |
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請問在場委員．對於上次會議事錄．有無遺漏、錯誤或需要更正之處．若沒有我們議事錄確定．請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項．邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告．推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會．WHA執行現況．並請衛生福利部列席．並備質詢。．宣讀完畢 |
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1936.755 |
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1940.958 |
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我們現在介紹在場委員首先介紹陳永康委員徐巧欣委員羅廷偉委員黃仁委員洪森翰委員蘇巧慧委員羅美玲委員林楚英委員 |
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1966.642 |
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1995.537 |
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沈博洋委員現在介紹與會官員首先介紹我們外交部吳釗燮吳部長亞東太平洋司藍夏里藍司長亞西及非洲司賀忠義賀司長歐洲司黃君耀黃司長北美司王良玉王司長 |
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1997.509 |
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2021.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
拉美及加勒比海斯 鄭麗成 鄭司長條約法律司 連建成 連司長國際組織司 李冠德 副司長國際合作及經濟事務司 連育平 連司長國際傳播司 徐永梅 徐司長 |
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2025.029 |
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2046.036 |
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研究設計會林世新副主任李斌處李志強處長秘書處洪振榮洪處長人事處黃麗玲黃處長政風處周志信周處長主計處李佩華李處長資訊及電務處林啟文林處長 |
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2053.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2061.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
公眾外交協調會劉永健執行長非政府組織國際事務會陳剛毅執行長領事事務局何振環何局長台灣日本關係協會范振國秘書長財團法人國際合作發展基金會石立軍副秘書長 |
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2079.51 |
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2084.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
財團法人臺灣民主基金會秘書組 劉燕秋主任衛生福利部國際合作組參事兼主任施金水 |
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2099.892 |
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2103.714 |
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本日會議．邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告．推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會．執行現況．並備質詢。．請吳部長上臺報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2120.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2143.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生、大家早安、大家好今天非常高興能夠應大院的貴委員會的邀請就推動國際社會聲援我國參加世界衛生大會、WHA的活動的執行現況進行專題報告今天非常高興出席的委員非常的踴躍跟以前不太一樣 |
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2145.298 |
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2160.972 |
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詳細的這個報告的內容就請大家參閱書面的報告那以下就將口頭的重點做一些說明那第77屆的世界衛生大會就是WHA定在今年5月27號到6月1號在瑞士日內瓦舉行 |
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2162.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2185.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
外交部循例積極推動參與在這邊要特別感謝立法院的支持尤其是江副院長啟臣將率領跨黨派的委員組成的立委四島團前往日內瓦展現我國人對參與WHA和WHO各項技術性會議活動和機制的高度期盼相信立法院的具體行動支持將提升台灣的國際能見度 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2188.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2208.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
從2017年開始,世界衛生組織的幹事長屈服於中國的壓力,在每日邀請我們參加以觀察員的身份參加世界衛生大會,這不僅忽視了我們台灣2350萬人民的權益,更罔顧全日內的健康福祉,我們已經多次向世界衛生組織秘書處提出抗議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2211.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2238.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
衛福部的穴部長瑞元．已經致函世界衛生組織幹事長譚德塞．促請他依照世界衛生組織的憲章．所賦予的職權．循例邀請我國以觀察員的身份．出席今年的世界衛生大會．以及參與世界衛生組織．各項技術性的會議．活動和機制我國也同步洽請友邦和理念相近國家．以多元的方式．幫助我們進洽世界衛生組織的祕書處． |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2241.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2260.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
也持續透過洽刊專文媒體投書推播文宣短片以及社群媒體串聯等國際文宣作為形塑有力的這個氛圍那今年國際支持我國參加世界衛生組織的力道不斷擴大逐漸讓世界衛生組織的祕書處感受到各國對我們訴求的這個重視和支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2265.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2285.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
今年衛福部的邱後任部長泰元將會率領四位行動團在世界衛生大會期間前往日內瓦透過舉辦周邊的活動和雙邊會談等方式向與會各國當面說明我們的訴求持續爭取對我們推案的這個瞭解和支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2287.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2299.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
美國國務卿布林肯已經連續4年發表聲明鼓勵世界衛生組織恢復邀請台灣已觀察員的身份參與本屆的世界衛生大會美國國務院多位官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2302.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2331.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
也在不同的場合表達美方堅定支持台灣參與世界衛生組織和世界衛生大會的這個立場此外今年4月G7外長聯合聲明也再度表達支持台灣有意義參與世界衛生大會和世界衛生組織的技術會議日本在外交藍皮書中也重新支持台灣參與世界衛生大會的立場另外德國英國澳大利亞比利時荷蘭瑞典政府也公開表態支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2332.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2359.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在立法部門方面目前已經有43個國家超過2800位國會議員以多元的方式為我們來發聲那這個數字在世衛大會開議前應該還會持續增加各國的立法部門以實際行動發聲充分顯示各國挺台民意也反映我國國會的國會外交的這個豐碩成果那在這方面也要感謝大院的支持在文宣方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2362.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2389.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
國際媒體刊登支持我國參加世界衛生大會的專文、投書、專訪和有我的報導目前共有172篇次衛福部長的專文獲33國的主流媒體刊登87篇次我們駐外館處的館長投書以及受訪目前已經獲得16國媒體刊登69篇次另外獲得國際媒體刊登16篇次的有我的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2391.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2415.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
今年外交部製作的推案文宣短片第二次出生My Second Home這個意思是說在台灣我的第二故鄉已經在5月6號在各平台上線播放並且廣獲關注全球點閱率現在已經超過360萬次外交部也發布了280則推案相關的轉貼和推文 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2418.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2445.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
總曝光數目前已經超過100萬人次顯示國際輿論的這個友好的聲量持續發酵由於這部影片非常的令人感動那我看過一次我自己是非常的感動那因為今天的時間的受限我沒有辦法在這邊播放給各位委員來瀏覽那也請各位委員有空的時候上網搜尋並且觀賞該部影片那這個會凸顯我們台灣在醫療衛生方面沒有國界的這種國際的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2447.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2469.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我國推動參與世界衛生組織是秉持專業務實有貢獻的原則所以我們再次敦促世界衛生組織幹事長應該基於維護全人類的這個衛生福祉的專業考量依循2009年到2016年的這個做法主動邀請台灣以觀察員身份參加世界衛生大會並且讓台灣完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2470.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2484.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
參與世界衛生組織所有的會議活動和機制以落實世界衛生組織的憲章健康是基本人權的宗旨以及早日達成全民軍艦也就是health for all的這個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2486.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2501.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
最後我要再一次感謝大院以及各位委員的支持和鼓勵我們外交部將持續和衛福部合作來推案也期盼立法院的各位委員能夠持續的支持以上報告也多請指教謝謝另外衛福部有補充的資料請所有委員參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2514.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2536.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
現在請徐巧欣委員．不好意思現在開始詢答本會委員10加2分鐘．非本會委員8分鐘．10點30分發言登記截止．若有臨時提案．請於10點30分之前提出．11點左右試詢答情形進行處理我們現在請徐巧欣 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2546.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2559.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我先問一下每次來國防外交委員會本會的委員大概都是6加2或是8加2非本會大概是5分鐘今天10加2 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2561.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2586.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
是初期然後列席是8分鐘代表說現在在場代表說這個議題很重要沒有啦這一次我們這個委員會很多次現在在場委員都在啊對啦不是像你講的我支持說好好的我來你都不見啊我在講話你不要打斷我要有禮貌我在會議詢問這是我的時間請不要打斷我 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2590.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2613.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你這什麼口氣?你要倫理啊?你媽媽沒教你嗎?合委員、合委員、合委員這是我的時間欸我說請所有的委員今天這個議題非常重要請大家針對今天WHA的問題好好的詢問那我希望說今天登記的委員很多請主席也要控制時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2616.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2634.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
本席擔任主席我會做10加2分鐘在本委員會已經很久現在另外一位昭偉也在這裡所以我提醒昭偉時間到的時候你要考慮到下一個委員的發言權利因為每次在這邊你都讓前面的委員暢所欲言變成10加N分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2640.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2640.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好 謝謝謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2659.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2659.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
羅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2687.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2710.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我想剛剛委員表達自己的一個權益這我們尊重但是如果你要控制時間拜託你早一點來到我們這邊簽名早一點來前面排隊發言自然而然你就可以掌握你的時間好不好我想在這個時間點不需要去討論到這個每個人都有自己招委有自己的權利不要這個時候外委員會來主導 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2712.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2722.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好謝謝因為今天登記發言的委員非常多我們現在開始詢答首先請徐巧欣委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2770.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2775.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
主席我想請這個魔法部部長上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2780.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2782.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
請外交部部長上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2801.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2823.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
早安部長我第一個問題想先確認一下我應該要如何稱呼你啊因為您在魔法的這個公開的社群網站上說呢你是這個外交部的魔法部的吵架王然後呢你也用林北稱呼你自己所以請問我今天應該要稱呼你為魔法部長還是04588 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2826.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2853.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
在立法院裡面我也很認真的跟委員回答那這個彩帶是我在最後一次跟記者我跟你說明一下就是說記者他們送給我的臨別禮物用一種幽默的方式對待我那我也有用一種幽默的方式來回應對任何人沒有任何不敬的意思所以大請問你今天都會使用您剛剛所說的鄉下語言來備詢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2854.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2856.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那部長我想請問一下最近你是否有感到傷心呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2867.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2892.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我上一次說我傷心的原因是因為我們的這個外交我沒有問你原因我會跟你說明就是說因為我們在對捷克的這個外交受到一些這種不明的這種我沒有問你原因我只問你說是不是有感到傷心因為那一件事情我感到傷心因為我看到你在節目上面說對你來說是很傷心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2894.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2895.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
呵呵呵呵呵呵 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2926.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2932.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那各位同仁也有,等一下都會幫他加錢喔今天大家都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2936.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2955.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
正式進入主題我國2024年建立促進烏克蘭重建初級項目能量照護夥伴關係備忘錄當中我們總共援助了不是我們是總共援助了烏克蘭多少個項目部長一共31個項目一共31個項目今年度2024年 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2975.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2981.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
主席他們一直這樣子討論時間可能要幫我暫停一下因為我不知道他們要這樣多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2986.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2995.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
請問一下我們在捷克方面來說他們總共在這個計畫裡面找了多少家的廠商來協助計畫的推動? |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2999.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2999.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們看一下下一張投影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3024.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3046.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
可是你不是在先前接受媒體訪問的時候你說你對捷克的外交期刊早就有掌握了嗎有沒有這件事情你有回答過嗎我沒有掌握好 你有掌握齁但是呢我剛剛問的兩個問題都在捷克公開的外交期刊上面已經有解釋了所以我們可以來看一下這個捷克的外交期刊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3047.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3072.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
在捷克外交出版的《現代經濟外交期刊》都把這些內容寫出來了我現在開書考可以作答嗎幾個項目多少間廠商可不可以幫我們解釋出來一下因為你說你有掌握嘛而且田次長上次也說有掌握嘛如果他們需要討論的話主席是不是可以幫我們時間暫停一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3074.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3082.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
有關於這些細節的部分我知道但是有關於細節的部分沒有辦法說像那個一個電腦裡面無限的容量全部容納在我的腦袋裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3091.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3093.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
有六家廠商但是依照我們相互的這種約定就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3120.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3122.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我為了這件事情很努力的去學了捷克文來大家可以看到用魔杖給大家看一下魔法部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3141.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3160.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
其他項目將由台灣政府提供資金這個東亞國家將提供總額為一千萬美元的資金並且在三年內逐步撥付而且呢三年內逐漸使用其中支援條件百分之三十的供應品來自台灣公司今年還有五個項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3161.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3186.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
再追劇然後約有20家公司參與交付兩個問題都明顯的在捷克現代經濟外交期刊捷克公開上面就寫了吳釗燮部長田次長你們都說你們有掌握這份文件但是我問出來你們一問三不知就連歐洲司的司長都不知道我們回到剛剛那一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3188.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3217.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
就寫在這個地方所以為什麼要不斷的欺騙國人呢就像當時你們說百分之百的跟第三方合作是合作方式叫做公開透明的百分之百說我都是全屬空穴來風說我造謠結果呢我揭露的是根本要保命十年以後告我泄密我們個人的官司不在這裡提我覺得沒有意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3218.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3225.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那呢我只想說不要一再的欺騙國人沒有意思要欺騙國人也沒有要欺騙立法院你們說掌握了現代經濟期刊的內容結果我問你不管是這個內容或者是你剛剛的回答都是錯誤的嘛你們根本就沒有掌握嘛再來下一張對方說約有20家公司可是這個合作計畫才剛剛起步我問你的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3246.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3247.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3262.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3280.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
神奇的捷克大秘寶我想問一個問題我們今天我們支持烏克蘭協助我們也支持跟捷克一起共同努力但為什麼要跳過政府採購法要去把金額打給CHTI之後他再來跟台灣的醫療廠商來採購理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3286.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3302.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
因為烏克蘭境內他們需要什麼 因為我們人沒有辦法過去他們不能提供清單給我們嗎就是因為我們跟他們之間沒有直接的關係所以需要透過捷克的CHTI來協助捷克的CHTI能夠進去到那邊去他們的醫療院所瞭解到他們所需要的這些項目那請問這一部分的金額300萬美金 立法院要如何監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3313.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3321.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
有關於這個部分是應立法院在2014年的這個決議來進行的那這個採購是CHTI的採購不受我們國內的這個採購法的限制那它受到捷克境內的相關的法律來規範透過這樣子的邏輯之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3332.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3335.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
再也不會出現在中華民國的任何帳上因為只有CHTI捷克方他去購買那請問什麼樣的廠商他會收到通知什麼時候開始購買目前應該已經撥放了100萬的美金出去照每年去計算的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3352.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3353.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
請問這一百萬美金用在購買哪幾間的衣裁公司買了多少用了多少我們現在外交部的掌握是如何的 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3363.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3364.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
你不知道答案啦我聽你這樣講很清楚你不知道那100萬的美金用到哪裡去了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3393.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3393.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
下一張投影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3408.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3429.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
你們說 剛才你說了用這種很奇怪的方式規避政府採購法是為了回應立法院的要求指定部分需要向台灣採購創造台灣商機後面這一段沒有問題跟台灣廠商採購增加台灣商機可是我們今天要問的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3430.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3452.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
為什麼不是CHTI、捷克、烏克蘭提供清單給我們我們再透過政府採購法公開公平的讓優良的台灣醫才去競爭你們給我們的回應是立法院要求的來我要請問立法院回應立法院是否代表有立法委員向要外交部要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3454.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3464.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這次並沒有但是跟委員說明這次並沒有為什麼你要寫在你的新聞稿上是因為2014年的時候立法院的這個決議之後我們一直都遵守立法院的決議立法院的決議2014年我看過他並沒有說要繞過政府採購法 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3469.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3476.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
他也沒有規定說要依據政府採購法所以你們亂寫他只是說如果今天要採購的話希望能夠增加台灣包含醫材或者是各式各樣的採購的比例讓台灣的廠商也能夠賺錢我剛剛問你的問題是為什麼要跳過政府採購法給CHTI之後再出去導致你們現在到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3496.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3497.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
請問提出這些建議的人是誰? |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3511.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3522.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我再跟委員說明一次就是CHTI他們的這個採購是依照他們國內的這個採購法以及相關的歐盟的這個規範來進行那這是一家非常優良的這種我問你的是台灣方面你不要跟我講CHTI嘛我問你的是我們所要我們所使用的這樣子的一個方式在過去是沒有的是我們把錢打給CHTI之後再由CHTI |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3540.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3544.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我問他們當時在臺灣招商的時候有讓所有的醫材廠商都知道這件事情能夠公平競爭嗎?我並不清楚他們購買的程序因為我們的合作的對象是CHTI所以就算他們有跟所有的醫材廠商讓臺灣公平競爭你們也不在乎你們也無所謂是這樣嗎?我們簽訂合約可以這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3567.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3574.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我個人認為完全沒有正當性最後最後下一張採購時間我們目前在台灣的採購時間就台灣300到400萬美金像13年來說應該是100萬美金採購時間何時招標何時決標招標程序是否公開透明有沒有依據政府採購法 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3595.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3598.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
得標廠商是誰?幾家投標?得標廠商品相?得標品相如何分開採購?得標金額最有利標是多少?限制性招標是多少?付款方式是多少?是否已經付款?付了多少?可不可以匯耗? |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3613.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3616.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
給我回覆所以你們這樣就救過了國內的政府採購法你不是說他們之後會告訴你嗎所以我們丟了一筆錢出去然後到底花到哪裡去了我們外交部也不管這樣有正當嗎所以我問 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3634.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3637.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以以後所有的援助烏克蘭的專案都是用同樣的方式來處理嗎?我最後一個問題問你以後所有的援助烏克蘭或是以前所有援助烏克蘭的方式都是用這一次的這種方法處理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3663.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3674.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我們盡可能的用這種對邦交對那個外交關係的幫助或者是說用對烏克蘭最有直接幫助的這種方式的要看個案要看個案要看個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3691.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3692.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
接下來請羅志強委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3727.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3727.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
有請部長請部長羅元照 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3737.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3764.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
部長先恭喜你齁然後要出任國安會秘書長成為賴清德的首位的國安會秘書長齁那我想要跟部長這個請教一下您自封是吵架王嘛那個不是我自封是那個記者聯誼或在最後一次的聯誼他們給我的一個幽默你也樂在其中沒有樂在其中這是一個幽默你才會掛在那個布條嘛這個是應記者的要求發射群嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3765.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3788.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
馬來西亞其實今天本席不是來跟你吵架的今天是來跟你講道理所以我也希望待會你不要自稱林北啦可不可以嗎我到目前為止我都沒有這樣子你來社群上自稱我希望不要拿到國會不過那個是我是從鄉下來在鄉下自我稱呼是這樣子但是這是在國會殿堂在國會殿堂我不會這樣子處理你不在國會講林北我也不會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3793.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3794.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
馬英九總統第一任國安會秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3812.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3833.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
蘇起如果蘇起自封吵架王不管在國會還是在社群臉書他掛著彩帶洋洋得以自封吵架王那個不是我自封的那個是媒體給我的一個幽默我給你一個勸告如果你不認同這件事情真的不要掛那個彩帶這點你認同吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3834.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3851.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個是記者給我的一個幽默彩帶總不是記者給你的吧彩帶是記者給我的彩帶是寄給你不要掛在身上嘛他們希望能夠掛在身上跟我照相這是一個幽默好嗎他叫你掛在身上就掛在身上沒關係啦我再問另外一個你總不能推給記者 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3853.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3862.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我沒有推給記者我另外一個啦不是這一個啦這個你推給記者沒關係啦另外一個你總不能推給記者你在徐曉欣執行的時候連嗆八次來告我藐視國會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3864.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3886.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那我想請問如果是蘇起他會講這種話嗎?我不確定他不會講這種話?因為蘇起不會到立法院如果蘇起對著民進黨的立委講說來告我藐視國會阿你覺得民進黨的立委會接受嗎?以後我到國安會的時候也不會再到立法院來那沒關係阿歐鴻烈外交部長如果對著民進黨的立委講說你告我藐視國會阿民進黨的立委會接受嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3888.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3901.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我不確定我告訴你明天你不會接受啦你不要講民進黨的立委不會接受馬英九總統也不會接受啦基本上以馬英九總統過去的政府慣例如果對國會用這種羞辱的方式的話我看恐怕也待不下去不只是書啟喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3903.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3922.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
蘇起是一個有涵養的人他不會講這種話所以蘇起不會講蘇起也是一個尊重國會的人他也不會講這種話但是國安會秘書長和其重要的職務今天如果自詡為就算是被封很開心的戴上了吵架王的這個披帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3923.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3926.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
然後在國會嗆這個你來告我藐視國會我就要問我們的部長未來的國安會秘書長那金澤總統認同你嗆立委說來告我藐視國會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3937.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3942.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
賴清德總統認同嗎?你不會問他?你沒有問他?那你覺得他會認同嗎?沒關係啊,等他國情報告來看看,我也想看看他認不認同啦認不認同一個官員直接嗆來告我藐視國會賴清德會支持你掛著彩帶到國會或是在社群上說我就是吵架王啊,他會認同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3962.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3980.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我再說明一次就是說那個是最後一次跟記者做背景說明他們送給我的一個幽默我真的重點是一件事情部長你聽聽看聽我一句勸你站在這個地方其實代表的不只是吳釗燮 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3982.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4007.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
你代表的是蔡英文總統現在此時此刻因為蔡英文總統任命為外交部長你也代表未來的賴清德總統當選的因為你是他的第一任國安會秘書長我真的覺得你不應該給你的總統蔡英文總統跟賴清德總統還沒上任賴清德總統就被你添加一個藐視國會的這個所謂的集團的頭子的名字不好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4007.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4032.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
因為你的一言一行就這樣大家去看看賴慶忠如果賴慶忠真的對你說你要嗆來告我藐視國會不聞不問說真的這個總統吼那也不是某種程度默許你默示你縱容你在國會來嗆的藐視國會嗎我這樣講有沒有道理啊能不能回應一下我對國會是非常的尊重國會阿三institution |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4033.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4040.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
因為我也是政治學者我對這個非常瞭解非常尊重所以像主席叫我來本來說今天不用來了可是主席叫我來我就來這個就是對國會的最高度的尊重願意出來談肯定就像隔壁我們的司法委員會蔡新祥部長就跑掉了這個我就沒辦法認同我肯定你站在這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4054.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4069.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那我要跟部長說還是那句話你在這裡代表的其實不只你自己啦你說你尊重國會那就不要用一些讓大家覺得你不尊重國會的詞彙嘛你覺得你來告我藐視國會你覺得是尊重國會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4071.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4098.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那個委員我必須要再說明一下我跟部長講其實我很尊重你啦尊敬你啦我對這個institution這個絕對是沒有問題但是individual就是個人跟這個institution這是兩個不同的概念我對國會的這個尊重這是無庸置疑的許曉鑫今天站在執行台請問他是許曉鑫站在執行台嗎羅志強站在執行台是羅志強站在執行台嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4099.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4127.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們是按照憲政執行我們的執行權欸那照你的說法的話如果今天過去的官員不尊重王定宇委員我可以就說我今天所有的對藐視國會行為指重的王定宇委員我可以這樣講嗎?不可以嘛好那我要再來講我想請教一下部長齁那個你知道前處長會副主委張天青自詡東廠引發軒然大波齁他有一句名言叫影射的殺傷力最強你聽過嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4129.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4132.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
當中國在欺負台灣時我國的立法委員補進來踢一腳這句話總是你講的吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4153.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4158.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那我想請教你這句話是有真憑實據真人明信還是影射殺傷? |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4162.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4172.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
真憑實據當然有啊我在國會裡面接受那個詢問在國會裡面接受這種詢問那有關於我們在國際社會上面受到中國的這種威脅欺壓的時候那我想這種情況是已經經過的很多次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4189.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4212.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
還是今天是黃建豪委員?你今天跟我講你有真憑實據沒有真人姓名嗎?有沒有真人姓名再告訴我一次跟委員說明就是說在國會的詢問以及平常的發言都有記錄有記錄啊?那你連真人姓名都講不出來啊?這不是影射?什麼是影射? |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4213.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4241.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我這邊還是奉勸部長啦你身為政府官員講話今天要負責任你今天如果真的覺得有立委配合中共涉及國安問題的話移送法辦啦在這邊用張天青的影射方式於您部長的身份有損於您部長的職份有損於賴清德未來總統的施政有損講話之前想想賴清德總統以上謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4243.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4251.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
好 謝謝接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席 有請吳部長請吳部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4268.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4289.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
部長早安,我們現在回歸到今天的主題,WHA難得我們的主席有擬定了這麼好的這個題目讓大家來做質詢5月27號WHA即將在日內瓦舉行,到目前為止我們都還沒有收到邀約對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4292.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4304.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我從外交部跟衛福部的報告裡面看得出來其實我們做了很多很多的努力從各個管道希望能夠爭取這個支持那這幾年我們確確實實也獲得很多這個國際友人的支持希望台灣能夠重返WHA可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4312.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4312.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
難度很高,是 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4331.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4335.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
難度非常的高,對,所以其實我們也不管怎麼樣我們還是會在這個5月27號的時候會啟程到這個日月娃去,然後呢透過像過去的這個模式舉辦周邊活動或是雙邊會談的方式呢來做這個進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4349.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4357.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
其實中國對我國的打壓長年以來都是如此從20年前的2003年台灣面臨嚴峻的SUS到這個COVID-19的這個大浩劫其實中國從來都沒有放棄對台灣的這個打壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4370.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4385.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我放這影片是在20年前那時候呢台灣的記者在詢問這一個中國的這個日內瓦的大使沙祖康的時候在詢問他一些台灣要加入WHA的這個問題的時候他那張嘴臉說誰理你們啊可是經過了20年來這個中國對台灣還是如此的這個態度而且我們覺得說會更加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4400.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4422.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我是覺得說我們不管做了多大的努力想要重返WHA可是這條路是非常非常的這個辛苦跟艱辛的那尤其是中國中國這十年來推動了一連串的這個政策比如說一帶一路還有2021年他所推行的全球發展創意還有2022年全球安全創意等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4425.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4432.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
其實他都在挑戰這個美國主導的這個國際的這個秩序尤其是一帶一路一帶一路呢他針對一些發展中的國家像這個中亞或是非洲呢進行一個基礎建設讓這些國家其實都是導向中國所以我們再怎麼努力可是呢舉手的時候支持我國的這些國家還是沒有辦法呢讓台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4451.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4453.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
非常謝謝委員對我們參加世界衛生大會的關心的確參加世界衛生大會對我們來講是一個很艱辛的一個歷程 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4475.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4491.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
但是就過去這幾年我們的經驗來看就是說我們必須要去聚沙成塔一次一次的去累積比如說有一些國家開始在支持我們他們支持的方式是用聯合競洽的方式或者是說直接間接來為我們發言的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4491.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4515.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
或者是說用聯合的這種支持的這個信函的這個方式那我們回頭過去看這幾年是不斷的在增加當中那在國際的這個輿論的氛圍方面我們也看到越來越多國家的這個國會議員也透過不同的方式來聲援我們那也可以看到像今年美國他們支持我們的這個力道是更加的這個強勁尤其是他們針對2758號決議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4517.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4518.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
Global South |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4535.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4560.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
就是說全球南方這整個很大的這個集團那由於中國的這個影響力是非常大的所以最終如果說要走到這個投票的話我相信連美國這種好朋友他們覺得說這個應該不是一條我們應該去走的路那現在就是我們必須要去逐漸累積我們的這個實力去吸引更多其他的這些好朋友來支持我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4562.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4573.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
謝謝,我知道外交部在這國際情勢如此嚴峻之下,真的是非常非常的辛苦,其實我們都看在這個眼裡。我說未來的路很艱困很艱辛,可是我在想說以台灣在國際上這幾年的這個表現,我想會 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4582.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4606.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
贏得很多國家的這個肯定那我們也希望就是說真的有重返WHA的這一天啦那再來還有一點就是說我們提到這個價值觀外交那價值觀外交一直都是歐洲呢他很重要的一個外交的這個政策那價值觀外交其實他強調的就是對自由民主人權法治等基本權利的一個尊重像這個歐盟他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4610.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4631.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
歐洲聯盟基本條約或里斯本條約跟歐洲聯盟基本權利憲章裡面都有提到這些核心價值我在想這些都是台灣跟很多有台的國家我們進行務實外交也是基於這些價值觀外交我們是奠定於這個基礎之上可是在近期的歐盟商會的評論裡面針對於台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4636.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4638.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
會通過他對兩個提案非常的有意見跟疑慮就是藐視國會罪跟國會聽證調查權所以我想請問部長這會不會影響到這個外資甚至呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4656.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4669.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
會影響到我們的友邦對我們的一些疑慮甚至影響到我們的綁交國對我們的一些外交上面的一些可能我們會面臨一些風險一些挫折會不會有這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4672.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4683.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這個也是我們擔心的那如果說看到那個歐盟商會他們已經有做這方面的這個表達那像這種表達的確是我們必須要去關心的因為像這種國會的這個聽證調查權以及那個藐視國會權 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4687.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4711.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
國會罪的這種東西如果說真的是要去落實落實到這麼寬廣的話那會有點像是在中國他們用這種反間諜法的這種方式去影響到其他的國家在中國的這個正常的這個商業行為那這個是我們非常擔心的那我們台灣作為一個自由民主開放的這個國家以及作為非常自由開放的一個市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4712.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4730.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
會因為這種東西會受到其他國家的質疑那我們台灣的這個立國的根本除了我們是一個民主國家之外我們台灣也是一個非常蓬勃的自由經濟體制那如果是因為這樣子的話會讓我們台灣的這個根本受到一個衝擊那這個事情我們必須要去重新考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4732.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4748.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
對,這個部分的話是不是我們要有更多的這個對外的一個解釋因為像藐視國會罪跟國會聽證調查權如果是放在這個價值觀外交裡頭它是對於一些法治、人權方面這是違背這個價值觀的這個核心價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4752.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4775.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以這部分的話臺灣一定要審慎與對所以我是覺得說我自己本身也很擔心藐視國會罪跟國會聽證權如果通過的話對臺灣是一個很大很大的一個傷害那另外還有就是外交機密的洩漏是不是也會造成各國對我國的不信任引發外交的危機是不是也是這樣子我們這最近一連串這些事情是不是讓這個國外有 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4777.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4805.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
有好台灣的這些國外有一些對台灣不好的一些印象甚至是影響到台灣的形象會第一個就是我們台灣是一個民主國家我們台灣的這個民主憲政的體制是三權分立那如果說被其他的這個民主國家在台的這個代表處或者是說像商界的這些人士看到我們台灣的這個三權分立本來運作的很好的這個民主體制開始在模糊化其中有一個機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4806.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4806.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4826.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4846.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
等於是引誘中國來對我們來做這些攻擊那所以如果其他的國家看到我們因為這種必須要去守密的這些項目不斷地攤開來的話那這個對於我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個被信賴度這個也會有所影響也會傷害到我們台灣在國際社會上面的這種聲譽 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4849.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4870.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
謝謝,謝謝部長我想說這些我們的目前台灣不管是在國際對我國的這個認同來講這一切其實得來都是非常的不容易難得台灣這幾年尤其在疫情當中讓全世界看到台灣那也看到台灣的民主的這個發展人權的這個尊重等等我們也不希望說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4872.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4872.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4905.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4906.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
謝謝主席麻煩部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4913.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4942.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
委員好部長老大辛苦那今天是你在我們立法院以外交部長身份最後一次備詢是那本席在這邊好像跟你也陪伴你好幾年的時間是我們今天做一些review還有一些重要事情來討論一下是因為外交是延續的不管哪個政黨執政不管誰當部長外交累積的資本跟外交的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4944.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4970.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
他是會往下傳的是全民要一起承受的第一個先請教這個問題坦白說我那天聽到你說有兩個邦交國有長期隱憂我個人會比較往前說一步是要面對中共大撒幣的攻勢大概所有的邦交國甚至於我們既存的參與國際組織都有長期隱憂但是你特別會提出兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4972.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4997.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
通常我們在monitor在觀測這個狀況是該國的內部政治局勢是不是發生變化或者中國有重大的資源集中攻勢在哪個外交戰場才會點出這兩個以你即將卸任外交部長目前我們具備長期隱憂的這兩國你認為他的風險控管還有下一步我們該怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4999.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5004.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
非常謝謝委員吼那我會提出說是長期的隱憂就是說在中國你論證多長這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5007.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5029.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
沒有辦法去確定但是在短期間之內一年兩年三年之內那個都沒有問題甚至是其中的一個是我看未來的10年15年20年也都沒有問題但是會有長期的隱憂是因為看到那個趨勢的確是對我們來講我們必須要很關注比如說有一個友邦他們的內部是陷入非常紛亂的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5031.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5032.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
有的軍事上是看到敵人已經有灘頭堡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5061.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5062.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我點名問一個我們在委員會這兩三屆在關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5086.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5088.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
在前幾年香港的前主教提出警告 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5112.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5141.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那幾年確實看到教廷國想要照顧中國教區的信徒無可厚非當時擔心台灣在歐洲唯一的梵蒂岡教廷國會有影響所以就外交部的評估目前教廷國並不在那兩國之內那個沒有問題因為最主要就是說他們跟中國在接觸是希望能夠有一些教務的協議來造福在中國的那個天主教徒中國所有宗教人民都要屬於共產黨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5142 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5168.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
都要官派的所以一旦教廷國在那邊任命權做折衷的時候就是危機開始曾經他要承認他們的愛國教會相關的任命但後來連他們要的也都沒有被任命就停下來了這個是外交部份的review第二個是有關我們在內部為什麼提告我要問的倒不是大家曾經討論過的這些問題我先問在外交上的理由因為你是外交部 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5169.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5190.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
當然機密文件秘密文件循法律管道送到立法院我們可以要求你私下跟我們報告我們也可以開機密會議而且這個所謂的資料是你們送到立法院的不是被挖出來的所以機密對立法院來講他不是機密他已經揭露給我們看了在研究之後為什麼會提告外交上有沒有外交的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5191.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5218.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
有,外交上當然是有理由因為我們會跟其他國家會有這些協議就是因為有高度的這個互信知道說可以彼此來互相幫忙那可是這些很多的這個部分是不適合公開尤其是沒有經過雙方的這個同意是不適合公開的那如果說加以公開的話這個可能就涉及到那個新法第132條的相關的規定在外交上面可能也會讓我們受到一些挫折 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5219.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5222.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
尤其是這些重要的這些合作夥伴或者是說理念相近國家有很多的這些合作的項目的確是不適合公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5243.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5270.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
三月份捷克期刊就已經報導了嘛但我們看的內容啦他們報導的是一部分但是沒有把這個文件拿出來給大家看所以這個部分還是密就是雙方的賦錄各方面何況報導跟官方去就有具有官方的國會議員或者是官員去確認這是兩件事情報導的話其實雙方可以禮貌的否認但是一旦官方去確認有時候轉折的空間都沒有了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5271.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5294.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
外交上的理由大概是基於彼此的互信那我們的合作方有沒有因為這樣子產生一些變化目前他們跟我們的合作的態度還是非常的明確基本上我們雙方也是簽有這個MOU那雙方都依照這個MOU來走這個捷克的這個機構就是捷克生物科技院的這個院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5295.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5319.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
他曾經在上個禮拜對外來闡述他們的這個心情就是說在他們跟台灣很誠心的合作來協助烏克蘭這件事情上面似乎受到了很多的這些誣衊說他們是圖利特定的政治人物等等的他們表達說這個非常的遺憾而且他們感到非常的傷心那對於這種好朋友我們去這樣子的形容真的是很不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5320.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5347 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我也不是說好朋友就是說在合作的夥伴上有時候我們在某一些國家要建立事實上中東歐親中的國會議員還相當多啦所以這個要破壞是蠻快的那昨天有媒體大亨趙少康說要弄死你們外交部和密的那個公務員你們有沒有看到那個新聞如果把我們外交部的這些機密的這些文件全部都攤開來的話我們台灣大概也不用搞外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5347.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5354.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
他現在是回頭講說那個核密的如果這個密不夠密我都弄死你他講的是用弄死這兩個字我聽到嚇了一大跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5356.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5381.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那位同仁或者你身為部長有什麼感受我覺得這個很不好啦就是說外交是我們國家的事情外交不是某一個政黨的事情而且外交這個是有延續性的在那個蔡英文總統之前是馬英九總統他的這個外交是由蔡英文總統來承接蔡英文總統的這個外交是由賴清德總統來承接所以這個是有延續性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5382.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5398.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們對外簽訂MOU彼此要求保密的情形下你們會按照法律就送到我們立法院合備嗎是所以這是一個公務員按照規範常態性在做的事情政治的攻防不要去恐嚇公務員對這個不應該啦對 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5400.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5429.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
外交人員或者任何部會人員都是國家的公務人員他不屬於任何一個政黨只會不順利就要弄死他我在這邊也跟委員用一個例子來比比如說我們的道路上面會有這些交通的這個號誌那這個就是一個規範大家遵守這個規範的話就會減少這種車禍等等的這些狀況那如果說堅持要把這些號誌拿掉要把這些交通規範拿掉的話那我想我們台北的這個交通會陷入大亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5430.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5435.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
中華民國台灣外交部對目前南海局勢的看法我要請你正式的表達看法這是你離開前本席在外交委員會要請你就南海局勢發表看法也就是說現在南海有軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5460.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5460.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5460.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5490.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
中共在那邊一下子去騷擾這個菲律賓的經濟水域一下子跟越南有衝突然後呢在那一邊呢他們用他們的海警船用水砲去攻擊菲律賓的海巡船造成人員傷害那美日菲的高峰會也針對這個局勢發表看法還啟動軍演然後目前呢美軍有相當多的軍力跟盟友 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5490.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5490.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
中華民國外交部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5510.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5522.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
的身份我們對南海的態度是什麼請發表非常謝謝委員其實我們早在2016年的7月南海仲裁之後政府已經透過國安會的會議結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5526.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5541.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
已經對外發表我們的這個立場立場到目前為止一個字都沒有改變那這個立場的主要的內容就是說我們對於南海諸島的這個主權以及相關海域的這個權利這個是毋庸置疑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5542.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5542.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這是一貫延續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5570.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5572.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
你剛剛講的這個問題裡面還有第二個部分就是涉及到最近那個中國跟菲律賓的這些爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5592.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5611.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
中國在對菲律賓施壓的這種方式那我們也發言過很多次就是說對於中國挑起南海地區的這個爭議或者是說在他的這種對外的這種聲張是無限的擴大的這個狀況我們是不予認同的那第三個是整個全球戰略 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5611.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5612.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
謝謝部長其實我們對南海的立場堅定 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5641.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5659.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那我們國家的利益要顧著在最後30秒我必須對部長講一些話確實因為中共的外交攻勢我們的正式邦交國失去了一些那是令人遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5660.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5660.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
外交部長吳釗燮報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5679.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5690.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
吳部長還有我們所有外交部的同仁你們讓台灣被國際看見你們讓台灣的重要性被各國重視所以不管在 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5691.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5718.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
對G7、AUKUS、歐盟、NATO、QUAD主流國家的2加2甚至於上次美日非的3加3台灣永遠是在前三名被關心希望和平、穩定、安全的國家這一個在坦白講你去看7年前這是不存在的我還沒有去算國際媒體期刊的報導我現在講的是正式國家的會議G7這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5722.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5739.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
美國是我們最重要的外交關係在台美的部分不管是BTA或者是安全合作軍售的常態化以及友台的法案歐盟所以我們外交還有很多困難的地方在外交的戰場上是真實的面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5740.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5740.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5769.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5771.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
接下來請陳永康委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5797.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5800.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
主席好 有請外交部吳部長請吳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5809.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5828.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
委員好部長好很高興今天在這個本屆立委中間您是最後一次歷歷來詢答那麼後面接著又要到這個國安會去服務就誠如剛才前面委員講的理論上外交國防它是有延續性的那麼將來到國安會後你要做跨部會的協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5829.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5854.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
是可能擔負更大的責任那麼我們今天呢原本是講省市推動國際社會聲援我國參加世界衛生組織的執行報告那麼我們站在立場上是絕對支持這個整個的作為謝謝委員那在這個題目裡面我們就用這個一個infographic來顯示外交部做的努力當然我們後面還有經濟的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5856.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5881.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我們也希望在政府的新任期內我們要推動國家安全戰略因此有關資源分配、協商的順暢策略比較容易推行施政能夠同步、政策持續、法治周全在這種情況下外交部對外不管是以半官方或官方包括剛才講的我們很多歐洲國家跟我們友誼很深但是非 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5882.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5902.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
MOU只是一個概念我提出一個建議因為為了保障後面能夠合作MOU裡面加個但書簽一個NDA如果只是簽MOU對方不小心講出來或者是透過他內部disclose出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5903.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5918.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我們做一個MOU後面做一個Proviso 裡面另外再簽一個以前我們跟美國國務院跟國防部都單獨有簽一個NDA Non Disclosure Agreement那這個時候就保障MOU的內容就不會外洩 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5919.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5940.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
至於後續參加這個WHA的這個活動我們當然是持續要支持了那也希望後來在往後在我們的國家安全戰略規劃下協助跨部會政府的這個橫向協調interagency coordination能夠做得更周延那麼下面一個題目就是延續剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5944.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5952.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
前面的委員講的就是南海的立場您剛才引述了就是我們政府在2016年對我們整個在南海的看法都有演示出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5954.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5970.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
因為我本人也在2016年前我也去了這個PCAPermanent Court of Arbitration我也到現場去了解的實際的情況也看出了他們對南海問題但是現在產生一個現象就是很多是繼承的事實比方來講這個1971年我們從中葉島訪台離開菲律賓就佔領了那麼1974年 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5978.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5997.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
鄧千沙州陸戰隊防臺離開越南就佔了這麼多年來已經既成事實了當然太平島我們現在有有這個coast guard有駐軍那東沙也很好我這邊提一個建議啊就是因為我們的政府在民國88年跟98年由行政院發布的法案啊看這個圖上 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5998.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6022.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
到現在的黃岩島仍然是在我們的臨海基線內那麼菲律賓啊跟中國大陸首先兩個禮拜前三個禮拜前是在這個所謂的人愛礁啊但是人愛礁是低潮高地所以它雖然是一條擱淺的這個登陸艦在那邊它仍是住在船上所以他們兩邊鬧來鬧去啊其實都是作秀因為不會改變結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6023.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6039.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
中國大陸也允許菲律賓運送糧食但是不准他有建材讓這條擱淺的船能夠持續讓時間拖那現在我們回到在這個民主礁也叫做黃岩島因為這個在我們的領海法裡面是公佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6040.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6066.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以我們有我們的立場是那麼我建議我們的這個條約法律師就是邀請菲律賓駐台的不管是辦公室的代表我們做一個Diplomatic Demarche的程序就告訴他依照我們的法律這個東西是在我的領海範圍只要表達這個就可以了這是立場而不是單獨聚焦在太平島那我們再去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6069.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6085.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個島我是利用了衛星照片海圖把所有的島礁相同的比例套疊下去了各位看到東沙群島是很穩固的有臨海基線那太平島是沒有包括臨海基線只是有淨限制水域 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6086.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6103.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
可是民主教黃岩島在我們政府的法令宣布裡面是有領海基線的那現在中共跟菲律賓兩個在爭主導權那麼雖然雙方不管是執法單位你叫他Maritime Police或Coast Guard |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6103.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6121.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
大家用Water Cannon用水泡在那邊轟其實是show business因為那個島上是沒有辦法居留的它只是在即便是高潮也是在水面3公尺但是呢爭取的是在整個南海的影響力那麼我覺得我們政府在這個島礁上面外交部的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6121.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6145.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
就是正式通知菲律賓主權我們有的論述方式我不介入你們的爭吵那這一點是可以顯示出在部長任內維護南海主權過程中間不要漏掉了民主交因為他是在88年98年兩次公布修正法案都劃在我們的臨海基線那是不是請這個條約法律司司長您有沒有回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6148.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6172.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這個部分我來說好了對於委員的這個建議我們回去做很深入的這個研究要確保說那個不只是可以彰顯我們的這個主權的這個主張那另外在區域的這個形式上面也不會有任何的這個困擾那我們來做一個那個一個好的一個Recommendation之後那我們來進行這樣子好嗎好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6175.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6203.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
謝謝委員在委員離開之前我要有一些感想委員是我非常尊重的一個軍界的前輩在立法院裡面做了很多的這些recommendation都是讓我們能夠很深入的去研究或者是說可以來馬上就來實行的這些建議對我們來講這個是非常的好在這邊也要跟委員致上最高的敬意謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6205.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6207.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
謝謝主席,主席有請吳部長請吳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6230.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6246.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
委員長部長好這個有始有終我想對於這個艱難的外交工作其實也是這樣我相信是一棒接一棒那麼在您手上所打下的基礎下一棒會做得更好那麼今天既然流行所謂的這個open book隨堂考那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6248.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6275.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
面對您最後一次質詢我想說那我也來開個隨康考好了我等一下會秀幾張照片看看您認不認識照片上面的人首先從您鏡頭上所看到的最右邊開始這一位您認識嗎?實任國民黨總統候選人他在造勢場合上面講了四個字叫做林北丹利他現在是他現在您知道是誰吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6277.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6305.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我們的院長我們立法院的院長對不對我應該澄清一下是你們的院長對對對是我們國家的立法院長好的那這個中間這一位呢算是過去我在跑新聞的時候也號稱立法院小辣椒啦那麼他好像在立法院也曾經說過了被認為是爆粗口叫做拎揍罵啦好那再來就是剛剛也有質詢您的他 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6306.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6330.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
講的這位徐巧欣委員那麼我會秀這張照片是因為這些都是電視台上面的截圖有的是講閩南語但是也有就用發音像以老子來說如果以我這個年紀我是不知道現場的大家有沒有讀過那一篇叫做老子都不老子了竟然出現在課本裡面所以課本是公然叫我們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6331.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6331.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
邀請外交部長吳釗燮報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6361.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6379.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那我剛剛講的這個臺灣話的這個字是因為我們鄉下人我是來自於鄉下那這個根本我是沒有辦法去忘記的因為我本身就是鄉下長大的那鄉下人在碰到見面的時候在講到自己的時候都是用這個字來形容所以沒有任何不敬的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6379.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6394.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
好其實本席會提問這個就是說我相信語言的使用不應該因為講台語或者是人家講的中文華語同樣的稱謂就會被認為好像有不禮貌 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6394.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6401.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
但是真的確實是看個場合把話要講清楚今天本席也希望說在質詢的過程當中因為我們要做國際外交啊我們也得講對方聽得懂的話在國際外交、國際組織當中我們要用他們的語言包括為什麼蕭美琴、蕭大使我們未來的副總統在美國可以表現得這麼好 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6414.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6431.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那就是因為他所使用的語文語彙雖然同樣都是英文但是可以讓我們的美國友邦的友人覺得感受那種親切感所以本席希望的是來你也好好解釋一下因為剛剛前面幾位都沒有讓你解釋因為我是記者出身我非常了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6432.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6454.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
最後的這個參會當中大家一定就是覺得欸接下來可能工作上面沒有機會見到但是呢私底下大家可能是好朋友請問這個彩帶是你自己做自己掛上去的嗎還是怎麼會有這樣的照片出來因為就是這個我們現在講的MOFA Taiwan的這個社群媒體當中出現了 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6455.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6469.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
然後以至於呢好像變成是你在挑釁你在挑釁特定的委員嗎沒有你在挑釁特定的國家嗎沒有我今天已經說明過幾次我在這邊也說明一下就是上禮拜五 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6470.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6495.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我跟那個跑外交線的這個記者聯誼會跟他們做一個查序也跟他們做一個很深入的這個背景說明那大家都很高興那其中聯誼會的會長他就先做了這一個東西要呈送給我那這個本意就是一個幽默那對於這種幽默的話那大家的相處就會更好所以他幽默來我也幽默回去意思就是這樣子而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6496.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6515.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
所以現在被吳釗燮剛說你好像是對著某個委員來沒有不是那個意思也不是不是那個意思好我希望這個話說清楚最重要速會就是要解開嘛外交上不也是這樣嗎但是有些事情我覺得還是要講清楚前面我們就當作是一個open book你算過關好 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6516.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6532.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
但是有關於我們簽訂的這些所謂的協定跟備忘錄其實確實是有機敏之分我大概整理了我們第10屆第8會期到現在第11屆第1會期當中外交部送到立法院的相關議約包括有現在最紅的烏克蘭重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6533.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6561.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
出擊醫療照護量能現在被打上黃色的部分其實都是以備忘錄或密件的方式來處理那麼有些其實是可以公開請問這個為什麼是密件為什麼有些可以送來不是密件他所評定的過程是什麼因為我也曾經在這裡問過國安局的蔡局長他說這個是由主觀來決定現在可不可以讓我們知道那為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6563.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6567.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
難道說是因為這是有採購嗎還是說是因為採購的過程當中就有錢的問題但是我們來看一下比如說跟土瓦魯外交人員的訓練或者是外交度假打工這個沒有採購的合約但是為什麼有些是密件所以平等的等級到底是什麼難道說真的是外交部隨便開心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6584.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6607.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
不是,那個要列什麼樣的這個密等都是我們的那個處理的同仁跟他們單位的這種長官必須要去仔細的去檢視和考慮說這個事情出去的話會不會影響到我們跟這一個友好國家的關係或者是說影響到那個我們在國際社會上面受到中國更多的這些打壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6608.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6627.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那在我們的同仁討論決定之後覺得說這個事情沒有問題了那我們就用一般件來處理那另外有一些就是說覺得這個公開來講可能會吸引到中國的這種打壓會影響到我們的雙邊關係等等的那就會用密件來處理那有些是這種NGO之間的這個簽訂那這個不是在那個締約 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6634.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6640.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
所以言下之意就是我們在處理外交工作的時候因為台灣特殊的困境包括中國的因素在內就以像捷克又或者是其他我現在黃色所標注的都是因為一旦 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6663.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6678.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
先公開了可能會有其他的狀況恆生之節或是造成我們的友邦在處理的程序上面備受壓力甚至於可能破局是不是但是密件就不能監督嗎我要來就是我們依法論法其實我們國際合作是依法有據包括我們國際合作發展法相關的規定都有特別提到就是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6689.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6689.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
﹚立法院議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6710.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6735.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
秘密會議 機密會議 外交部可以來報告嗎?我當然可以啊就是那個不管是公開或者是秘密只要委員會的主席發函到我們這邊來我們就必須要來面對立法院好 所以也就是說剛剛提出來的這些疑問或疑惑其實都可以在立法院當中被監督沒錯但是如果說像現在有委員提出來說有國外的這些期刊都已經登出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6736.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6757.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那麼這個會不會變成是我們反過來去指揮人家那所以你們在訂定相關的這樣的一個監督的時候的跟對方是如何來達成一個共識因為畢竟當我們把錢捐到我們友邦的時候的過程當中那麼就是人家在內政當中做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6758.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6759.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那在內政當中做處理的時候我們怎麼樣訂定這個監督的議程又夠透明通開但是又夠能夠不影響干涉到他國內政 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6770.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6794.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
由紀念跟委員說明就是有一些部分是必須要讓人民知道的比如說我們跟捷克之間簽訂了一個MOU那這個MOU簽訂好了之後那我們在去年的12月1號也告訴國人說有這一個事情我們跟捷克一起去協助那個烏克蘭那這個是必須要去公開的那有關於內容的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6795.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6811.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
就是捷克的這家期刊的部分其實他們對外透露的跟我們的新聞稿的性質是一樣的但是至於這個約本本身如果它是列密的話那我們這邊不會對外來提供捷克方面也不會對外來提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6812.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6838.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
至於監督方面其實每一個MOU裡面都有一個成立一個共同監督委員會來監督這個執行那這個監督委員會裡面也會有我們的人參與這個是共同監督的事情所以對於監督立法院監督我們或者是說我們的政府在監督這一個事情的執行或者是說對方要跟我們報告那這個事情我們都必須要有百分之百的掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6839.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6863.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好我知道這個事情吼現在鬧的是連傑克我們的友邦都會認為說奇怪台灣好像先捐了一筆錢給我們之後換是他們的國會議員在質疑他們用錢用的不當這種感覺就很像是我們伸手去講人家家裡的事情但是因為錢來自於我們這裡所以我很明確的想問是那麼如果按照這個合約的話那麼最後他們還是會告訴我們怎麼樣使用這一筆善款 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6868.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6872.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
每半年會有其中報告那如果說是以今年1月你們送進來2月送進來那麼簽訂的期程的話也就是其實6月7月就有可能他們的第一批的使用的善款的狀況會有一個報告對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6895.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6898.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那我們其實還是期待這個報告因為有關於機密的部分我們還是要遵守外交部所核定的這個密的等級我們希望也不要成為未來我們在跟國際上面做一些MOU協定的時候變成是人家質疑我們的一個部分好另外呢其實我在想 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6912.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6914.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
中美之間的貿易戰到底是不是會影響到台灣今天最新的訊息是說拜登宣布了中國產的這些產品要加徵關稅然後當然他也強調要維護台海和平的部分那麼其中當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6928.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6942.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
拜登宣布的180億的中國進口商品要開徵新關稅的部分外交部事前有掌握嗎那有了解嗎怎麼來評估現在其實全球在面對中國的時候尤其是以美國為首的這樣整體所形成的這個貿易戰對台灣的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6945.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6960.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
非常謝謝委員的這個問題有關於美方要針對中國的這些產品加徵關稅的這個部分都一直有在做討論那也一直讓我們知道那個部分的這些狀況至於細節的部分比如說要加徵100%、25%等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6963.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6983.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我們有事前有一些資訊但是沒有百分之百的掌握但是知道說這個方向是確定了那即使那個現在是川普政府的話而不是拜登政府的話我相信他們的這個方向也差不多那最主要他們會做這個的事情的原因就是因為他們覺得中國方面有這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6984.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6987.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
致於對臺灣會不會有所影響有可能正面也有可能負面 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6999.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7026.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那負面的部分就是說這個部分會不會造成那個國際經濟的一個動盪那當然我們是很重要的一個依賴國際貿易的國家這個也有可能會影響到我們台灣波及到我們台灣但是正面的這個部分就是說我們台灣類似的這些產品如果具有這種競爭力而且我們沒有做這種不公平的這個競爭的話相信我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個產品的流通還會更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7026.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7027.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
接下來請蘇巧惠委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7067.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7067.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
吳釗燮報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7081.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7106.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
今天特別到國防外交因為是您在任期上最後一次到立法院備詢那其實國防外交尤其是在您領導的外交部門真的這8年來確實是做了非常非常多的努力當然這不只是部長一個人的努力這是全體外交部外交相關領域的各位所有同仁共同的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7106.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7122.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以才有今天我們有資格有機會有能耐可以說一聲啊我們真的讓世界看見台灣世界的關鍵字一定有台灣我相信部長你一定認同我這句話你帶領了一個了不起的團隊是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7123.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7149.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
非常謝謝委員的肯定那的確最近這幾年如果說除了這些外交的挫折之外不管是國際社會上面什麼重要的這種高峰會幾乎沒有例外都會提到我們台灣那在國際的這種重要的場合台海的和平穩定也都是大家共同的這個語言所以對於這種努力的這個結果我們同仁大家都感到非常的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7149.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7155.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我記得2016年我剛剛有這個機會來到立法院的時候那個時候我們從不敢想像會有如此多的國會議員議長訪問團到立法院來做國會的交流與參訪我們也不敢相信世界上的期刊拿到了這些台灣講到了台灣的時候是會講到台灣的產業台灣的文化台灣能夠對世界衛生做出的種種貢獻這些都是我們過去不敢想像的 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7178.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7179.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我們更不會想到說這個美國這麼重要的亞太駐親會直接在公開的場合上面說聯合國的決議中國解讀有錯誤其實台灣是應該有機會可以參加WHA這些都是我們過去不敢想的 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7194.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7218.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那這些真的都是外交同仁方方面面的努力而且我在這裡呢也必須說其實在外交事務上面各位外交同仁你們在承平時期但是領導的帶領的其實就是國家的尊嚴你們在外交場域上捍衛了我們自己的國家就等同於是在戰場上的三軍將士一樣因為有你們的守護 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7219.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7240.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
所以我們的軍人不用真正到第一線的戰場謝謝大家的辛勞你們交到的朋友越多台灣就越安全這是今天在這裡部長最後一次備詢我藉著跟部長的對話也再一次感謝全體所有包括基層外交部同仁真的真的非常的感謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7241.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7257.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
因為我知道大家其實尤其是在部內也好到了部外每三年一派有些人是攜家帶眷孩子太太不適應外面的環境有些人是拋妻棄子拋夫棄子也可以啦但總而言之每一個人的辛勞 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7259.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7276.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
國人在適當的時候其實回過頭來看都知道謝謝外交部因為不只是大的國家處境甚至是每一個國人在國外遇到急難的時候我們處理過多少的急難救助有多少國人在外面護照掉了臨時生病了受傷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7278.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7281.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
各位的不辭辛勞確實挽救了非常多的家庭挽救了非常多的國人的健康與性命這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7298.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7313.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
真的是要真的謝謝外交部全體同仁真的我今天不只是要謝部長要謝謝包括全體的基層人員真的非常感謝好所以感謝的話說到這裡因為我只有8分鐘我是外委委員我必須說 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7314.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7337.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
因為基於這樣的感謝所以當我聽到這個在國防外交委員會的質詢質詢與備詢之間的題目是這樣的時候我感到蠻不可思議的我以為國會殿堂上面的質詢應該是更有水準比如說部長我現在問你部長請問外交部有幾個社外交部經營了幾個社群媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7338.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7366.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
還不少臉書推特部長我問你具體的請給我數字部長你的stress有多少粉絲了部長這是公開資訊你為什麼沒有掌握呢是不是這樣這是需要嗎部長我認為我應該問的是部長在現在這個時代外交部是不是應該經營社群媒體社群媒體對國家的外交影響力到底有多少你可以回答我們嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7368.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7389.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
非常謝謝委員提出來以推特來說因為推特是以國際為面向以國際為導向的一個社交媒體我們的推特到目前為止已經有五十幾萬個追蹤者我們外交部的這些追蹤者來說很多都是政治人物和國際的媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7390.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7413.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
是,你光是上一次中國禁台灣啤酒這篇我覺得你們的回應就非常好在社群平台上面社群平台上本來就應該用幽默的方式回應嘛中國禁台灣啤酒你們就說啊你們錯過了自由美好的滋味很好啊這個所有的人一看就知道這是什麼意思就跟你今天說喔你用強烈的語氣說我一定跟你站到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7415 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7426.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
欸真的就像剛剛楚映委員說的啊這個人家在群眾場上可以這樣說啊我們在幽默的社群平台上不能這樣寫哇這真的是雙標啊這實在是雙標那老實說因為社群媒體讓我們的能見度擴大之後確實台灣的訴求那各個外媒也都可以看到所以部長我真的真的強烈的建議喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7439.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7450.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
不管是在這些社群網路的發言發文也好比較特殊性的重要性的有被大家看到的你應該收集層層甚至是你本人其實在非常多的在非常多的國際媒體上面也受過專訪我認為這個其實應該要把它彙整起來彙整起來之後呢那其實就是一個我們這8年外交的定調甚至至少未來也可以參考部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7468.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7480.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這部分我覺得不是你個人的成績所以我覺得你不用不好意思這個是你代表國家我認為應該要收集陳冊部長這是立法委員的質詢你可以同意嗎非常謝謝委員的這個建議那我們這邊來跟同仁討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7485.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7510.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
在今天早上剛發生的一件事情就是說我前天有那個總統政訓給我那我也發在那個我們的推特上面捷克的參議長在那個message下面有留言那這個就是我們台灣政府跟其他國家的這個高層利用社群媒體互動的一個很好的這個機會那這個是可以強化我們的public messaging和那個外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7510.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7526.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
他的語言風格模式本來就要用這樣就像你去捷克你要說捷克語你去日本你要說日語就像你去美國要說英語在社群平台上當然是用社群平台的語言來說話才能夠大家聽得懂這是最基本的道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7527.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7531.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
所以我必須說啦其實如果在這裡的質詢能夠是就後面的意義層次來討論實在是會比較高端一點不知道過兩天要舉行國中會考連國中會考都不考填充題跟是非題了我們現在都考素養素養這兩個字知道嗎好啦那部長我最後啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7546.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7571.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那個委員剛剛問的就是說那個把我們接受國際媒體系列撐撐的這個事情這個應該要做啦尤其是我對這個是相當的自豪就是接受國際媒體訪問到目前為止這個禮拜五還會再接受一次那一共是三百二十八次你是代表著大家啦代表著台灣啦我帶領我們所有外交部的同仁集體對國際來發聲讓我們台灣的這個聲音能夠讓國際社會來聽見 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7576.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7594.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
好最後部長剛剛我看到你今天早上收到了禮物是這個台灣這個當季的水果乾這樣的狀況那我覺得那個看起來品牌我是沒有看過但現在正是芒果的季節芒果乾也是蠻好吃的但我覺得這其實大家等一下應該可以開來吃了 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7596.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7620.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
因為有些密件可以開啊而且應該要拿出來趕快開趕快拿出來趕快吃掉它有些密件是不能開的這些大家應該都很清楚基本的公務人員也都很清楚上面有個那麼大的一個字叫做密的那種叫密件開了會有問題此密件非彼密件啊所以我勸那個等一下大家那密件應該蠻好吃的可以趕快吃一吃而且喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7620.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7621.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
接下來請陳冠廷委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7657.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7675.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
請問外交部長請問部長陳委員好部長好部長我今天想討論一下臺灣參加世界衛生組織的策略部長世界衛生組織秘書長談判賽的任期是到什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7683.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7698.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
根據美國前國務卿蓬佩奧在自傳他的說法是說他的賽上位是靠中共來支持那加上中共現在是世衛的主要的捐助國那外交部評估在未來三年內台灣參與WHA的這個機會是樂觀的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7702.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7723.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我覺得這個需要長期的努力我們所要爭取的就是有更多的國家政府議會以及當地的重要的人物能夠支持我們這個努力的過程大家都看到逐漸累積成果如果說支持的人數國家數夠多的話我想這個就是水到渠成的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7724.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7749.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我想跟部長還有我們所有的民眾我覺得還是談一下台灣參加世界衛生組織他可能過程中會受到中國的各式各樣的打壓但是我們不能夠拒戰我們不能夠害怕在這個辯論過程中爭取的這個機會所以包含剛才我們提到的社群媒體的發聲把這樣的中共的荒謬之處來說出來透過社群媒體這些都是非常正確的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7750.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7765.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
所以當我問部長熱觀不熱觀的時候我們是要問的是我們要不要參與的這一張態度我們這樣子的說法我們這樣子的narrative是怎麼樣我們必須在論述上面能夠跟中共對抗我們未來才會有機會或許今年沒有辦法或許明年沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7766.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7766.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7783.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7785.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
但中共外交部發言人汪文斌前天在臉書的粉專上說 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7805.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7820.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我們看到這些相關的文字是說九二共識是台灣參與WHA的政治基礎中國在一中原則下妥善安排台灣地區參與全球衛生事務尤其是2023年中央批准全台醫學技術專家21件申請參加WHA的技術活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7822.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7846.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
部長外交部對這些的言論的立場是什麼有關於我們去參與世界衛生組織如果說要基於九二共識那依照中國所說的九二共識就是接受我們台灣當成是他們的一部分而且要接受一國兩制如果說要這樣子才能夠去參加世界衛生組織的話這個對我們台灣來講是極端不公平的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7850.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7850.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
沒錯,跟中國無關 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7878.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7900.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
所以他們所寫的就是錯、假、亂、訊息那我們也希望社群媒體在這個時候就要直接扮演他的角色直接在他下面散播的就直接來把它寫上去那我們希望透過這樣子的方式那第一時間給這些中外的媒體讓所有的人都知道說這是錯、假、亂的訊息那把我們嚴正的立場講出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7901.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7926.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
接下來的社群媒體尤其是推特我們會針對那個世界衛生大會的這些相關的狀況我們又會有一系列的這些推文那也希望部長能夠完整交接這個外交部的這個相關的社群媒體給我們下一任部長然後並且把這些重要的提點用備忘物的方式給部長下一任部長讓他們知道說快速來針對錯假亂訊息的回應在社群媒體上面是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7927.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7949.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那再來就是1971年這個我們失去聯合國的席次那包含在1972年是被迫退出世界衛生組織90年代末我們李總統採取彈性外交都是這樣子的無功而返那當然2003年的時候SARS的時候中國不只反對台灣加入那個殺主抗海說誰理你們這些都是傷透台灣人民的心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7950.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7975.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
中國政府不只是這樣子講中國政府還在國際社會上面去說台灣人民的健康福祉是由中國政府來照顧的像這種謊話他們都敢講對 他們都敢講我們也要敢去來去把他們的任何一個都給予餘力的嚴正的博士我那時候在當總統府的副秘書長我對著國際媒體講It's a shameless lie沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7975.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7996.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
沒錯,這個確實是這樣子,那我們從參與WHA也好,到WHO,我們每一個想做的事情就是希望台灣can help,就是台灣能夠扮演一個積極的角色,不管在醫療,在健康、政策上面,包括我記得江醫師他好像,江冠宇醫師之前代表台灣的世界醫師會,那出席 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7997.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8016.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
執行委員會．針對抗生素的濫用．氣候變遷的議題都發表聲明就是說我們參與是有目的性．是有任務性．是希望對世界．對國際社會是做出一些貢獻所以我們是希望說未來我們推動臺灣加入WHA的這個遊說團能夠有更多外交部的人員來更積極的參與然後來去全力參與各個全球衛生機制的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8021.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8049.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那除了幫助我們自己之外也是幫助別人我特別要談到臺烏的醫療合作我們今天有談到很多跟捷克那為什麼要跟捷克合作最主要的原因是因為我們跟烏克蘭直接的那個直接的聯繫是有問題的那所以必須要透過一個跟烏克蘭友好的這個國家也跟我們關係非常好的國家來進行第一他們現在是在戰爭狀態第二我們沒有直接的這個大使館能夠來提供直接的協助我們當然是需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8050.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8066.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
有閃的第三國來透過各種資源進入並且要知道說我們要把資源運進烏克蘭本身就是要遇到很大的困難啊你怎麼知道俄羅斯方面會不會在各個奇怪的地方來去做出干擾的動作所以有些機密有些密件是必須要去保護的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8067.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8096.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
特別是在安全的議題上面特別是在烏克蘭的議題上面我們要面臨的不僅僅是俄羅斯的侵擾而已還有包含中國的力量那習近平最近在訪問歐洲的時候專門就是想要削弱跟分化歐洲塞爾維亞、匈牙利哪一個不是在歐盟、歐洲裡面是處心積慮的在削弱歐盟的力量的這很明顯所以我們希望說不要憂慘慰饑那不管是透過捷克或者是其他中東歐國家對我國比較友善的 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8096.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8117.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我們都必須要把資源完整的運送到烏克蘭因為烏克蘭的勝利就是嚇阻中國的能量進入台灣的一個最好的方式這個是我最近在Foreign Affairs上面寫那篇文章的最主要的那個立論所以委員講的我百分之百贊成我想下次部長我們再一起共同撰寫來去投稿好了之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8119.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8140.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
烏克蘭的自由民主聯盟我想也有拜會部長也有拜會總統跟準總統那我想在他們拜會我的部分他副主席有說因為烏克蘭又有一個過去的發展模式那可能在科技跟醫療方面的科研能力還是需要更多的提升所以我是希望說台灣能夠在相關的領域合作特別是在傷兵後續的治療 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8141.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8169.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以包含我們的這個直接的支援或者是包含醫師上面的協助醫護人員上面協助我作學可以透過衛福部等等我們一起來思考方向因為我看國和會的資料現在主要的合作跟烏克蘭的合作是以農業農資為主那難民是在羅馬尼亞有兒童社會心理支持的人到援助我想說未來可不可以在越南菲律賓印尼索馬地蘭等地一樣我們有沒有辦法在烏克蘭當地或者是周圍友好的國家推動醫事人員的訓練計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8171.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8197.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這個是我們正在那個推動當中那我們最主要是透過NGO因為政府跟政府之間的確是那個聯繫是受到限制的那這個推動的項目就包括說燒燙傷或者是說那個創傷症候群的這些治療等等的那我想我們台灣的那個NGO的這個能量是相當的龐大那我們外交部這邊會協助我們的這個NGO來促成這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8197.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8212.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好謝謝那接下來跟外交有關係但是跟安全議題也是有點關係要考量到未來我們外交跟國家安全其實都是一體化那普丁他撤換國防部長稍微一股換了一個經濟背景出身的文人部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8214.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8229.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我擔心的是說這個文能部長他所顯現出來的可能性就是未來俄羅斯可能會朝向經濟戰貿易戰資源消耗戰這方面去做處理所以我想請教部長那也是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8230.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8246.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
可能是未來的,不是可能,已經宣布了嘛,國安會秘書長那針對這些東西,這些事件,這一些已經發生,正在發生的可能的安全的挑戰你有沒有什麼相關的因應方式,你要怎麼樣跟未來的國安外交體系做合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8248.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8267.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
非常謝謝委員那以現在國安會的角色他就是在那個部會之間的這個協調尤其是在比較重要的涉及到外交和國防的這個部會裡面必須要去做一些整合去找尋出我們最好的這個政策的這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8267.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8283.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
所以未來到國安會區之後也會秉持這個國安會向來的這個角色希望能夠跟外交部之間跟國防部以及陸委會之間都保持非常密切的這種友好的聯繫讓我們的這個政策是在協調之下產生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8285.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8301.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
最後 最近在上個月上上個月我們訪日的時候那當然有主要是在訪問日本的國會議員那有多位國會議員有談到針對未來的外交特別是對日的外交的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8301.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8328.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那蕭美琴準副總統那可能在一週之後就會正式上任那他們也提到是說因為在這一次蕭美琴準總統準副總統在訪歐訪美的過程當中他們覺得有點遺憾就是說欸怎麼沒有去訪問日本那我想請問齁這個部分對日本的這個關係那未來我們的蕭副總統在外交領域上面也是設立很多會有什麼樣的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8330.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8350.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這個基本的方向就是說那個肖副總統他也是被賦予這種高度的這個責任在外交和國防的這個領域上面都能夠來協助我們各個部會協助我們國安會所以未來不管是對日對美等等的那我相信那個肖副總統他會扮演非常重要的角色那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8351.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8361.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
目前的所有的這些政府的部門的首長跟蕭副總統之間也有非常好的這種合作的關係所以我相信他的這個角色以及他的這個貢獻度應該是會很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8364.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8390.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
非常期待因為我們接下來大概是包含林佳龍未來的外長那還有吳部長那未來是國安會秘書長加上蕭副總統基本上都在外交領域上面都有相當的涉獵特別是蕭副總統蕭大使曾經在美國的這個駐美的時間也是蠻長的那麼希望對日本的關係因為接下來可以很明顯的看到整個這個第一島鏈菲律賓臺灣跟日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8391.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8411.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那我們在加強第一島鏈的關係跟安全保障的合作是非常重要的我們當然是要對美外交的加強之外我們就在我們的鄰國一個在北一個在南那他是我們安全上面的屏障不管在海洋資源在入海空上面的情報的交換都很重要所以我們把這個我們訪問的時候國會議員訪問的時候的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8414.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8415.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
當然,非常謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8442.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8443.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
有請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8469.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8477.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
關於參與WHA這個部分今天已經是5月15號了那基本上是不是已經確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8479.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8489.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
今年無法出席這個WHA那根據這個2024年的WHA舉辦的期間是5月27到6月1號根據過去的經驗在這麼短的時間裡不可能再索要了 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8500.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8513.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那當然過去我們採取的補救的方法是台灣代表團在場外和其他的國家裡面舉辦了雙邊的會談例如2017年有總共59場那另外2018年有60場2019年有71場那請問今年有幾場在雙邊的會談裡面有幾場 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8526.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8553.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
現在還沒有因為現在還在推動當中所以會有幾場我現在沒有辦法跟大家說明那委員剛剛提的沒有錯就是說我們會利用其他國家的這個高階訪團都在日內瓦的這個機會跟其他國家舉行這種雙邊的會談那其實還有一種方式就是多邊的這個work shop也曾經來進行那這些對我們跟其他國家的這種衛生合作的關係是非常有幫助的我們會持續的來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8554.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8574.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
今天為什麼要談到這個第一個我們在2017年之前在馬英九總統的時代就曾經參加過我們WHA也進入到這個WHO能夠再進入到觀察員的一個身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8575.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8602.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
比如說像我們原住民少數民族在聯合國裡面就是有觀察員的身份所以這樣子一個這麼珍貴的能夠吐血我們在台灣能夠在世界衛生組織裡面能夠發光發熱可是2017年之後到至今就已經沒有這樣的一個進入到這樣的一個大會 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8603.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8630.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那是不是在當然各國裡面替我們講了很多的話對我們國內都是講一些宣導的一個立場當然是好事可是我們為什麼不借用美國因為我們目前我們執政長一直對著美國親美的角度是不是可以請教他 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8631.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8648.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
由大國跟我們中共來對談你們認為是因為中共的阻擾那是不是要借用美國這麼大的一個國家來跟中共來對談是不是讓我們有機會重新的加入WHA這個組織讓我們台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8653.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8674.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
進入到世界衛生組織的一個立場而不是一直採用雙邊的會談跟會議你來回答非常謝謝委員提出的這個問題這個的確是非常的重要那美國在過去這麼十多年來一直都有跟我們這種國組的這個對話國際組織參與的這個對話那在對話之後也具體的提出的一些方式來協助我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8681.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8709.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那最近這一次就是針對2758號決議案有很重要的這種發言但是將我們的國際參與交由其他的國家來幫我們協商的話那我想這個可能必須要去重新思考參與國際組織是我們政府要代表我們台灣人民的這個事情我們的這個權益不應該交由其他的國家來替我們來施行那我想我們的權益是掌握在我們的手中 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8710.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8732.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
現在目前就是因為沒有辦法進入所以我們也要借力使力啊對我們最主要的這個方向在這邊也跟委員報告就是我們希望能夠吸引更多的這些國家來支持我們在參與世界衛生組織那我們吸引到的這個國家去為我們去聯合進洽 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8733.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8734.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
這是一個國人關切而且非常很重視的看待那我希望下一個林佳榮部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8755.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8771.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
希望能夠努力好不好有關於這個外交部告我們這個徐巧欣委員立法委員本席本席非常不解的地方也對我們部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8774.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8792.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
對國會提告立法委員是一個重大的事件因為目前外交部控告有關捷克簽訂的一千萬美金援助烏克蘭其中指定的百分之三十到四十之間的採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8794.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8806.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
臺灣的一彩有圖利特定的廠商的嫌疑外交部在5月7日赴北檢提告習曉新委員泄密北檢已列入他字案 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8807.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8831.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我們剛剛習曉欣送了密件我們密件 我們外交部裡面的密件有兩種第一個是國家的密件第二個是公務員重要的密件但是它列入在什麼樣的密件我不曉得但是你們向來 你們的密件都向來都是密件這個是不解的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8832.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8859.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那另外就是我要特別講的就是是不是這個只是由法條司來提供提告給徐喬欣另外就是我特別要講的是行政部門控告立法委員這是一個行政權透過司法權企圖迫使立法委員的權利限縮監督的權利那這可說是中華民國史上第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8860.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8881.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
第一次在民主國家極為駭人聽聞的事件請部長務必講清楚公告的完整決策過程這樣未來若要追究責任或要論功洗腸才知道要找誰另外我特別要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8884.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8912.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
行政部門控告立法委員的是一個大事無論結果如何我這個地方特別要講的未來產生重大的影響已經夠了我們藉此機會來明確的來誰是歸屬責任這件事未來可能有三件事情會發生第一件習巧芹委員可能敗訴第二個外交部可能敗訴第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8913.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8937.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
外交部可能會撤告但是如果請問一下部長如果習巧芯委員在敗訴的過程他必須要負法律責任對不對是因為違反了相關的新法的規定那請問如果是外交部敗訴的話誰要負政治的責任你來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8938.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8954.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這是一個假設性的問題。剛剛我已經問你了,如果習委員他在被提告的過程裡面他敗訴了,他負法律責任,你剛剛說是,那如果外交部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8956.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8959.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
有關於未來的這個狀況如果說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8971.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8976.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我自己也是政治的學者我拿到政治學的博士 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8997.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9025.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
就行政機構跟立法機構之間的關係是相互制衡是一個對立而相互制衡的關係而不是說永遠是由立法部門來制衡行政部門所以這種關係之下的話大家也要彼此相互的尊重今天你是在立法院背刑立法院背刑但是你提告我們國會的立法委員的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9026.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9036.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這是一個創造了歷史的一個害人害文的一個問題如果說是違反了刑法第132條的規定而我們沒有去處理的話可能受到影響是我們的國家利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9043.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9061.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
外交部長林佳龍來接這個爛攤子因為這個事情明明就是在期刊裡面都已經彰顯一千萬的美金來援助烏克蘭這是事實所以我們今天來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9064.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9078.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我們國會希望是良性的一個表達人民的訴求而不是製造現在製造國會之間跟你們行政部門之間的尷尬的場面來把問題丟給下一屆的下一屆的這個下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9083.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9101.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
如果說是一個文件這個是機密的然後把這個文件秀出來的話這個很明顯的就是違反了刑法第132條的這個規定那我們行政部門我們外交部這邊是受害者那可能我們的國家利益也會受到損害對於這件事情我們外交部沒有不處理的這個空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9103.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9119.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
你們現在不要混淆了國人的視聽今天我們不會立法委是授以人民國票數來站在這個舞台上來執行執行你們有沒有以公以平以公正 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9120.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9146.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這是一個國人看待但是你們是專業行政部門不要去毀謠視聽因為你提告了立法委員這是一個重大的政治事件也是重大的事件那剛剛我才問你如果你們敗訴我一再一再講如果你們敗訴是誰要承擔是你來承擔還是林佳龍來承擔你來回答這個議題啊這個假設性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9148.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9164.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
不是假設性剛剛我已經問你了如果習曉新立法委員如果他是敗訴的時候我問你你說是負法律責任那請問這個是一個這是一個答案那現在我訪問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9164.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9192.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
外交部萬一敗訴的時候是林小龍負責呢還是你負責這個要跟國人交代嗎也跟委員報告一下就是說我們外交部去討論了有關於像這種把密件秀出來給記者的這個做法那這個很明確的違反了刑法第132條的這個規定我們認為說在這個事情上面我們的檢察官或者是我們的法官應該會 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9193.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9196.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
若依照客觀的情形來處理,那關於事情的這個內容,我們不需要再多發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9216.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9223.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
這個是假設性的問題我想我們外交部如果說在這個意義上面這個已經是一個公訴的這個狀況那個我們的那個地檢署已經take over你在毀謠視聽了謝謝接下來請洪森和委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9261.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9263.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
請外交部吳部長請吳部長同委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9271.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9284.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
部長今天我看了前面幾個委員大家在你這應該是最後一次在外交國防委員會的詢答那當然我們今天的題目原本是要談WHA的問題可是其實確實這兩個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9289.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9304 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
針對這個密件的洩密的事件我認為這是一個非常非常嚴肅的事情那尤其是未來即便可能部長不在外交部了不管後面的次長或後面的新任的部長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9305.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9331.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
外交部還是會有很多機密跟密件的文件這裡面涉及到相關該如何監督該如何維護這個國會跟行政方面對於密件怎麼去處理的這個我覺得是非常嚴肅的問題因為這個問題沒有處理好後面連帶的其實可能是我們的國安或者是我們的國際關係都會受到影響的事情所以我這邊有幾件事情要跟部長再來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9333.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9360.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
在周末的時候我們看到一個新聞那個新聞上面寫這個國民黨的吳宗憲召委就司法委員會的吳宗憲召委那他說這個案子是非告訴乃論檢察官沒有辦法這個外部沒辦法撤告所以他建議國民黨的委員要輪番的來給外交部壓力我今年已經領教到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9362.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9375.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
來給外交部壓力然後施壓外交部逼得外交部要自己劇狀跟檢察官說我希望不起訴外交部希望不起訴我要這邊說我今天不特別針對個人但我要先請問現在國民黨的吳釗燮 吳宗憲吳宗憲召委講這樣子的話外交部的反應是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9389.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9415.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我們外交部並沒有針對這個事情討論但是我個人的這個看法就是說我們台灣的這個憲政體制是一個三權分立相互制衡的一個體制那如果說用壓迫行政部門去處理去干涉到那個司法權的話那這個會讓三個權力的相互制衡整個亂了套啦我是覺得說這個是萬萬不可那尤其是這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9417.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9444.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
違反刑法第132條的這個事證如此明確把這個秀出來所有的這個媒體都有拍到那在這種狀況之下我們外交部是沒有不處理的這個空間不然我看到這新聞的時候第一時間我感覺現在在野黨是已經變成是一個政治黑幫了嗎在我的印象中只有黑幫才會用這種聚眾為勢的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9445.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9455.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
來去為一個違法者施壓來為一個違法者開脫我真的覺得好像是遇到了黑幫啊這事情很簡單我們是國會議員在國會的殿堂就是談法律問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9463.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9486.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
第一個問題部長是到底這份文件你們2月23號送進立法院這份文件是不是密件列密是密是列密我也收到了上面蓋了一個大大的密這第一個第二個徐委員有沒有涉嫌洩密因為被媒體拍到就你們來看從媒體照片上面看出他其實有把他秀出來對不對是第三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9488.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9517.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
這個事情我們可以自己回答包括馬文俊委員也在機密文件在國會有沒有合法的監督程序我們可以直接說有這個案子進到立法院是照條約締結法來被查如果委員會要來監督其實就是被查改審查大家就可以審查大家就可以監督就這麼簡單所以國會是有監督密件的程序的下面一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9519.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9525.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
徐委員有沒有用合法監督密件的監督程序沒有有程序合法的程序但他沒有用所以問題非常非常的簡單啊不是不能監督啊這跟不能監督根本是兩回事啊所以要把列密就不能監督我聽不懂邏輯在哪裡第三點我要問外交部 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9550.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9559.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
徐委員在要跟你監督的時候他有沒有來私下找外交部討論希望用一個不公開的方式想要來詢問或者是來質詢質疑這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9562.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9591.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這份密件的文件的內容有或沒有?並沒有 其實立法院有一些長官高層的長官私底下也有來問那我們就用機密的這個方式處理所以是可以用機密的方式用不公開的方式來處理但是徐委員應該沒有對不對?沒有好 我也確定馬文俊委員排的機密會議或者是外交國防排的機密會議就沒有問到這一題嘛所以有這麼多可以來監督機密文件的方法對不起都沒有使用只用了一個做法就是在媒體上面公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9592.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9611.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
其實我真的不知道這有什麼好爭的我再問一個問題徐委員有沒有拿著各種的他想要講的理由來跟外交部說這是不是應該解密他有沒有來請求解密沒有在他公布前有嗎沒有也沒有要求解密所以我真的不知道現在在這個事情在吵什麼道理這麼明確明明就有合法監督的方法你不用用這種做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9620.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9625.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
現在再要聚眾來為事聚眾來施壓我不知道國民黨這是在做什麼我要跟大家說我覺得這是一個非常嚴肅的問題這牽涉到未來我們的國會到底要怎麼監督密建如果未來密建的監督的方法全部都是直接把它拿在媒體前面公開然後只要犯了法我們就繞人來施壓部長如果這是可以這樣幹的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9651.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9677.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那以後臺灣中華民國還有什麼密件還有什麼機密可言這是非常嚴肅的問題我今天在這邊為什麼要用這個態度我覺得這是沒有模糊地帶的事情部長我不知道你所狹下的公務員接下來會在這件事上承受多少壓力但我認為這條線在那邊清清楚楚沒有模糊地帶我不針對徐委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9682.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9706.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我只針對這一個洩密的違法行為今天是任何的委員就算是民進黨的委員做了這件事情我們也不允許所以部長我要麻煩你也許你下個星期你就有另外一個職務但你狹下的公務人員你狹下的這些文官們還是會接下來面對這件事情我希望外交部在這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9708.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9708.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這個對我們來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9733.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9760.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所謂的這些機密的東西就是涉及到我們國家的安全國家的利益的事情我們的同仁自己都有這種很高度的自我期待就是說這些事情我們要盡量去保護剛剛國民黨的委員甚至在問說為什麼這個捐助案沒有用政府採購法這道理非常簡單嘛請問這一次0403地震大家社會上面捐了一堆錢給花蓮縣政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9761.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9781.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
華聯縣政府收到這些捐款以後他的支出是不是都有用政府採購法當然沒有嘛但我們會不會因為他沒有用政府採購法就說你這裡面有弊端就要副委員或者是徐縣長出來說清楚講明白指控他這裡面有弊案指控他要圖利誰我們不會嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9783.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9806.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
尤其是指控的對象是這種協助我們的這些人譬如說捐款給花蓮這就是一個捐助案嘛這就是一個捐助案嘛所以我們在這邊我要說這事情非常嚴肅我們希望外交部要能夠堅守立場今天我還剩時間不多我想請教跟外交部請教我們最近時間其實看到在南海 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9807.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9813.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
美國跟菲律賓之間有一個這個肩並肩的計畫我想部長其實有注意到吧對這個是聯合演習這聯合演習的計畫裡面我們其實現在看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9817.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9841.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
第一個在第一島鏈裡面我們過去其實在處理台灣到菲律賓這一段的時候其實我們看到好像有一些在海巡上面的合作計畫是不是部長我們跟很多其他的國家都有海巡合作是那現在我們在看到我自己看到在第一島鏈裡面假如我們現在跟菲律賓這邊也有開始相關的合作的話據我了解可能外交部這邊也有從中來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9843.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9859.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那往下現在在越南跟菲律賓也開始締結一些更多其他的海上合作的關係甚至我們也看到越南現在也在改善他跟美方之間的關係也許也有機會我們可以把我們海上合作的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9860.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9887.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
甚至有沒有機會再往越南再往菲律賓到越南這一段來延伸讓第一島鏈民主國家聯盟能夠更加的堅實這件事情部長你有什麼看法?非常謝謝委員我們的海巡能夠跟其他國家來進行合作不管是桌上的或者是士兵的那這些都是我們希望能夠來促進的但是有關於媒體出現的那個我們台灣跟菲律賓的這種合作的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9887.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9890.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
現在在這些合作區確實出現了對我們來講相對有利的地緣政治的契機我們很希望不管外交部不管國防部或者是我們的海巡只要有機會我們就應該擴展我們合作的版圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9915.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9932.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
也包括部長接下來可能會到國安會當然以後國安會秘書長不一定會在這邊來接受質詢可是有機會我們希望我們能夠盡力爭取把我們第一島鏈的防線尤其是對於威權國家及全國家的這個防線能夠做得更加的堅實 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9933.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9954.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
好 那我認為也許我們是存在這個機會但用什麼方式我們可能沒有辦法用正式的國防的方式但怎麼樣一個彈性的方式符合我們國家利益跟我們當前困境需求的方式這部分當然接下來也要請吳部長到下一個職位的時候必須多費心可是我們非常非常期待這件事情也請吳部長把這件事情也許再帶到你下一個職位的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9955.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9981.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
再來做一個更準密符合我們需求的規劃好不好會我們會這樣子的方向來努力那我想未來還是有希望能夠請那個委員提供我們一些寶貴意見的這個機會那我在這邊也要說明就是說所有的這些委員的這個說明或者是建議的話對我們來講都是一個非常好的參考即使反對黨的這個委員比如像陳永康委員那他的很多的意見都是非常的寶貴所以未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9982.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9983.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
謝謝 現在休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10409.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10411.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
主席好,有請外交部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10440.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10458.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
委員好部長好首先針對前天大陸國台辦發言的陳彬華在記者會上說台灣方面沒有辦法參加WHA完全是民進黨當局造成的是在此本席也要幫外交部說句公道話謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10460.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10479.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
國台辦這樣發言其實真的是蠻荒謬的而且蠻可笑的完全打擊我們全部的辛苦的外交人員還有醫藥界的共同的努力世界衛生組織裡面的序言裡面就有講了享受最高而能獲至的健康標準是人人基本的權利之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10480.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10498.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
不因種族、宗教、政治、信仰、經濟還有社會的情境各異而分宣誓。大陸用這種政治綁架臺灣人民的健康、綁架臺灣人民參與國際社會共享醫療資源的成果的做法,其實是赤裸裸的侵犯了世界衛生組織基本原則。 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10499.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10503.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以站在其實國家的整體利益和全民的健康上面我們確實是不應該分黨派應該要團結一次讓世界看到台灣部長想請問一下你對中共這一種把政治放在人民健康之上的行為有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10516.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10516.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
韓國瑜議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10531.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10535.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
實際上不是經過他們的同意,而是我們自己去申請的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10554.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10576.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那他們也說中國政府會好好的照顧我們台灣人的健康福祉那我們台灣的人民的反應就是說你爛不要把他欺負你那你就慢行啊那所以中國政府常常會在國際社會上面說這些錯誤的這個話那每一次只要他們有任何這個錯誤的話我們外交部這邊都會予以反駁那剛剛非常謝謝委員的這一番正義支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10578.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10584.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
謝謝部長努力那我再來請教部長由於美國在COVID-19的流行期間發現WHO嚴重的失能甚至因為政治的立場的關係導致公衛機制沒有辦法很好的運作所以拜登政府也花了三年的時間推出了美國全球健康安全的戰略然後這個戰略裡面主要是以美國聯邦政府為主題希望達到三個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10604.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10620.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
第一個是藉由雙方合作強化全球的衛生能力第二個基地政治的承諾與基金第三個是整合所有的衛生安全行動然後從2015年開始臺灣跟NIT就已經共同推動了一個GCTF的計畫全球有128個參與的國家包含了公共的衛生還有人道救援還有災害的防救這些議題基本上就是讓美國拉著臺灣實質的參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10635.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10642.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
包含了公共衛生在內的全球事務那去年2023年臺美日澳釋放在WHA期間在日內瓦透過GCTF的平台舉辦了國際的研討會強化國際的依偎的合作然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10652.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10659.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
臺美日澳四方首都都是用抗疫的經驗還有公衛的專業深入交流大家也認為這樣的全球來這樣強化全球夥伴的關係是促成公衛安全的重要性那我想請教部長一下我們是不是能夠透過這個GCTF去響應拜登政府推出的美國全球健康安全戰略呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10676.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10695.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
還是外交部目前有沒有什麼規劃讓我們一起參與到美國這樣的全球健康安全戰略有關於GCTF是我們在2015年跟美國成立的一個協定他叫做Global Cooperation and Training Framework就是利用我們台灣的強項不管是在公衛在婦女父權在環保或者是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10698.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10712.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
在涉及Cyber Security的各個不同的層面能夠讓我們台灣的這個強項跟美國合作來貢獻這個區域那到目前為止這個表現都非常的好也受到全世界各國的這個讚譽 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10714.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10740.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那委員剛剛提到的就是說藉用GCTF來強化我們跟美國的合作來推動全球的這個衛生方面的這種合作的話那我想我們會具以來推動其實那個公衛的這一題會持續不斷的在GCTF的這個workshop上面來呈現那我們台灣的這個公衛的能力是受到全球的讚譽甚至是在COVID的時候很多的國家都淪陷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10740.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10740.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10762.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10767.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
那我再問一個問題部長這幾天立陶宛這個東歐小國的總統選舉突然受到臺灣民眾的關注那當然不外乎就是他的總統老塞達希望臺灣的代表處更名為臺北的代表處這件事情然後媒體報導因為前幾天也看到部長在廣播節目上面談到 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10783.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10808.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
立陶宛的選舉的時候有提到在野黨勝選的機會比較大但總統選舉前其實老賽亞的民調都是大幅領先其他候選人那前一天的第一輪的投票結果也是確實是如此的那想請教部長一下就是說是外交部掌握的情質是有錯誤呢還是是你有意想要安撫台灣民眾的心情然後可以不然的簡短的說明一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10808.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10835.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
很間斷的說明第一個就是那個立陶宛是280萬人口的國家他雖然說他的人口不是很多但是以道德的勇氣來說這是一個超級強國那我去那邊訪問的時候我就當面跟他們的這種國會議員等等的說他們是一個moral superpower因為他們所展現的這種對抗強權對抗蘇聯對抗中國的這種精神是很多的國家都比不上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10835.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10857.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
這是第一點那第二點就是說我們跟他們討論到最後有一個協議就是說我們台灣在那邊的代表處是叫做the Taiwanese representative office就是我們台灣這邊販做的台灣代表處那這個是經過雙方同意的那這個問題也是行政部門之間也就是他們的那個這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10859.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10860.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我認為這個改變的可能性很小 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10880.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10895.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
即使接下來在8月的時候他們會有一場新的那個國會議員的選舉可能會有一個新的政府那可是對於我們跟那個未來可能這種阻隔的這個新政府之間的這種討論的這個狀況來看的話會改名的這個機率很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10899.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10911.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我們跟立陶宛之間已經有各式各樣的這種合作的這些項目那這些項目對立陶宛來說也是非常重要的那所以我對我們接下來跟立陶宛的這個關係是非常的有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10912.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10928.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
好因為其實立陶宛是歐洲國家中其實我是覺得他是一個很難得與台灣友好而且甚至在被中國打壓之後外交發生困境的時候是非常相挺台灣的國家但是剛才部長所講的但是據我了解那個立陶宛是半總統制的總統是負責國家的外交國防事務所以台灣辦事處是否可以更名這件事情其實是總統的職者職權他可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10940.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10940.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10958.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10966.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
然後塞爾達最後的勝選的機率非常的大因為剛才我也講了這個應該是總統的職權所以他順利當選總統之後要求臺灣辦事處真的把他更名為臺北辦事處那這樣的話那我們如果他還有這種堅持的話那會不會影響到我們兩國的情誼還有外交關係的生變呢還有他這樣你覺得說他更名的這樣的機率會有多大呢因為畢竟是他的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10989.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11005.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我剛有一個小小的資訊要跟委員更正一下他們的那個國會大選是10月那我們也跟各個不同的政黨包括現在的在野黨都有很深入的這些溝通那包括現在的在野黨現在的執政黨當然更不用說現在的那個在野黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11006.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11018.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
他們對於強化跟台灣的關係持續來推動各式各樣的這些合作那他們也都抱持很高度的興趣所以接下來我們跟那個立陶宛之間的關係應該能夠維繫而且持續的加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11022.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11050.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
至於那個立陶宛總統的這些看起來比較像是選舉語言的這些東西我們當然是會加以關注但是畢竟權力是在內閣的手上所以內閣對這個事情是有發言權和最後的這個決定權那目前看不出來說他們的內閣在這件事情上面會做任何的這個討論但是無論如何我們還是會持續的關注那以個人來說我對這個是相當有信心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11051.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11051.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
謝謝主席,有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11081.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11093.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
委員好部長好今天辛苦了今天我覺得因為我們的主席他排的這個是WHA我認為這是一個非常重要的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11094.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11123.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
但是在這個之前也是因為這幾個禮拜國人非常關心這一個洩密相關的案件那我在上一次次長來的時候其實也有問過其實我覺得這不是不能討論它的確是一個嚴肅的問題就是說我們的確可以去討論說加密等等之類的問題這確實是一個全民都關心的但很明顯的以今天來講即使是這個可能想要幫忙護航的委員來台上看起來好像也都沒有問到這些關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11125.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11141.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
他可能就是問說你知不知道到底有幾家廠商跟新聞知不知道一致我想問部長因為以前我也有承辦這個外交部相關的一些影響行動的活動對不對那我想問部長知不知道我們那時候送印的手冊找的是有幾家影印的廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11144.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11167.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我常常在笑,就是說我的腦袋裡面就好像Memory Chips它的那個容量是有限制所以如果我說我拼命去吸收那些我腦袋到最後是不能用的是啊,但是今天他就在問譬如說你知不知道我那時候外匯照了幾樣菜是不是在規避這個政府採購法所以呢,我覺得這種問法其實是說真的不入流 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11168.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11169.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
蘇琦,為什麼要戴彩帶,張天青講過什麼,我覺得這跟他無關。嚴肅一點我們來講,在這件事情上面,我們今天外交部講的是132條。 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11182.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11200.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
因為我在跟次長的時候也有講到就是132條它叫做國防以外因秘密所以因秘密這三個字其實它絕對有一個解釋的空間就到底什麼叫做秘密但那時候我也跟次長提醒就是以外交部的角色來講它一定是形式認定是不是秘密它不是實質 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11201.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11225.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
為什麼呢?因為一旦今天他發現上面蓋了一個密件一旦對外交部今天發現有人竟然把這個密件洩漏出去了對他來講形式上就一定是洩密如果今天外交部不去告發的話那反而會形成問題反而是要獨指嘛所以如果說今天要給外交部施壓說今天明明有一個蓋密件的東西結果竟然被送出去了然後你還不能夠去告發這絕對會有獨指的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11228.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11250.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
但是我們在機密這件事情上面其實最主要有好幾個法律我有看到在前幾天這個趙少康他有提到說要罕修這個三大法國家機密保護法兩岸人民關係條例還有反滲透法我在這邊其實我覺得很奇怪的一件事情就是這三部法律未必跟今天這個案件有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11251.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11274.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
因為我們今天要直接說這個東西是不是機密是一個公務機密它其實是有一個文書管理規則這個文書管理規則一旦核定了之後呢它本身就是一個密件那至於它有沒有跟國家機密保護法相關有沒有競合那完全是另外一件事所以我完全不是很清楚就是說這個趙少康為什麼要提這三個所以很明顯又是想要用這個事情來做一個政治操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11274.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11300.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那我擔心啦,所以我先幫這個部長演練一下,因為今天登記的人也多啦等一下可能就馬上會有人問說,部長你知不知道國家機密保護法第五條之一規定的是什麼?可能我要看一下對,可能不知道對不對?那既然你會不知道這件事情,你的機密都跟這個核定有關,你連法條都不知道那你這個做什麼部長?待會可能就會有這種情形出現啦那我先告訴大家國家機密保護法根本就沒有第五條之一啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11301.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11324.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
但是我覺得就是說我們今天要好好討論這件事情的時候確實文書管理規則這一個算是一個行政規則他今天在和密的這個過程當中他到底有什麼樣的問題他跟現行的法律有沒有什麼不合之處這是我們立法院應該要討論的也就是說如果今天認為文書處理規則訂的不好那是立法委員的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11325.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11350.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那怎麼會是一個公務員根據規則然後弄了一個密件結果現在說要威脅這個公務員站出來我覺得這個是完全不合理的事情不知道部長同不同意所以就花了一點時間先解決了這個前面大家的爭議的問題但接下來我想問WHA而且剛好今天這個國台辦又有發出了一些聲明那目前來講我前面這個我先跳過因為這個是布林肯之前針對這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11352.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11353.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
但在2023年呢我看這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11368.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11395.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我們的外交部的這個新聞稿在這邊就是說中國呢這個極其動員古巴與巴基斯坦代表他對聯合國的2758號以及WHA第25號的決議作出扭曲錯誤的一個政治性解釋所以也就是說呢在2023年依照外交部的這個新聞稿很明顯真正讓我們不能夠去這個WHA的對象可能是中國以及他發動的盟友 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11395.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11403.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這是一年前的事情這一年一直到2024這一年當中我們目前來講改善這件事情的措施大概有哪些呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11405.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11427.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
最主要的就是說我們外交部門以及國安部門去跟美方進行討論的時候讓他們知道說2758號決議案其實這個就是那個WHA第25.1號決議案是內容是一致的跟他們提到說中國是不斷的利用這個決議案不斷的去擴張這個決議案導致很多的國家相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11427.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11445.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那因為在我們的努力之下美國的政府在最近這段期間也對外說明了他們的這個立場包括說這個決議案跟中國的一個中國原則是不一樣的那這個也沒有決定台灣的這個主權地位這個也沒有影響到我們台灣跟其他國家的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11447.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11447.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
﹚國際社會聲援 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11465.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11491.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
也就是說我們針對我們的盟友相關的發言等等之類的應該是這一年努力的成果那這個呢其實在上一次這一個應該不是上一次了已經是3月20號了已經一陣子以前這個時候我在質詢的時候呢到時候部長也有提到就是要針對2758號決議案要多一點作為因為這是他現在相關的一個法律戰那我現在觀察到的一個現象是這個樣子這個是透過一些國際的智庫的一些不算是研究但算是一個情報 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11492.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11518.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
就是說現在中國在跟其他的國家可能會簽訂各式各樣的一些經濟的協定啊等等之類的他未必跟我們的外交有直接的關係但他現在的做法是他會在簽這些協定的時候把2758號塞到裡面去那他塞到裡面去之後我們有時候不得而知因為畢竟有時候契約他雙方是保密的就跟這次的密件一樣所以我們可能無從得知然後呢我們的盟友可能也無從得知那他可能這一年以來做的特別多 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11518.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11538.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
反制的力量可能會在各式各樣的投票現在會有一個反制的力量出來因為目前來講盟友為我們2758號講的越來越多了但我認為反制的力量可以出來是因而可能會出來也代表今天在早上今天國台辦的這個記者會我們剛剛才把他這一個放上去就是說他說有一些人反負債這是今天早上的事情所以2758號決議在做文章 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11540.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11566.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
台灣這個是中國領土不可分割的一部分又在講這種話所以簡單來講我認為他們可能也是吹醒這個反攻的號角所以我們在這一年當中的確拉了盟友然後對2758號發聲那針對他們現在塞契約以及開始吹醒這個號角要反制的力量可能也不是只有外交部也是可能以後部長在國安會會遇到的那不知道這件事情之後有什麼樣的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11568.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11575.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我們目前就是在處理這次參加世界衛生大會的過程當然也是跟美方的合作會更加強對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11583.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11606.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
讓美國針對2758號決議一樣的態度立場能夠讓更多的這些有盟國家來接受而且如果說可以的話他們也會對外來發布那這個就是我們一個很強大的這個力量但是至於觀察中國在這個過程當中會用什麼樣的這個方式來加強他們的這個法律戰我們的外館都會密集的來收集那在過去這段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11608.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11623.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我們看到兩個比較特殊的這個狀況就是說斷交的時候他們就用2758號決議案來那另外一個是逼迫我們退出中美洲議會的時候他們也用2758號決議案所以顯然他們利用中國所詮釋的這個2758號決議案的這個詮釋內容是不斷的在引申擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11628.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11645.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
所以像剛剛委員所說的那個經濟的協議或者是說其他國家的跟其他國家的這種共同雙邊聲明等等的可能有這種可能性就是無限的去擴大那我們會持續的來收集資料針對法律戰的問題那我們會擬出一套規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11646.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11661.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
對我這邊的就是當時我們在面對這個問題的時候在跟一些國際的學者跟智庫在討論的時候又想到一點就是說因為中國在打這個法律戰他大部分還是會搭配輿論的方向就是說他輿論打一打他再丟一個新的一個法律框架 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11661.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11676.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
所以我在想說不管是外交部還是僑委會因為他們在外部可能是第一時間會知道說他們在其他的契約什麼時候去塞了2758號這個東西在裡面但當地的民眾未必會買單也就是說呢他們當然一般對於這種經濟協定的簽訂可能並不是很關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11679.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11707.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
如果說我們能夠在其他的國家去告知他們的人民他這個transparency就是說如果今天有這個協定出現的時候結果竟然有政治力的操作這個不利於他在各個世界國際組織等等之類然後以及跟台灣的一些雖然不是直接的邦交但他可能會有一些直接不管是經濟相關往來的這個時候或許因為有時候一定是地方上民眾的力量才有辦法對他的政治人物做出一些反制 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11708.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11735.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
所以如果說就這一點而言就是還是回到我們之前講的跟智庫的溝通然後還有跟民眾的溝通智庫的溝通目前來講大家應該可以也是感覺到啦最近不管是哈森然後CSIS啦都開始要針對2758號去辦各式各樣的會議在台灣辦然後也在DC辦嘛所以這個部分我覺得是外交部這幾年以來我覺得非常重要努力的一個成果但是民眾的部分因為民眾的部分如果沒有辦法對他們的政治人物有一定的壓力的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11736.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11736.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11757.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11779.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
這個意見非常好,我們會來接受,不只是接受,我們來執行。謝謝,那這個就是我剛剛講的,就是我們要怎麼去瓦解中國的一個法律戰,我個人是認為重要的。那最後還是要在這邊謝謝部長,就是說過去這幾年的努力,真的是花了很多的時間,因為我知道我們曾經有一段時間,尤其是在民主基金會的運作之下,很多國外的線是斷掉的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11780.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11781.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
接下來請黃秀芳委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11814.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11816.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
謝謝主席 我們請部長請部長委員你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11825.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11831.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
今天有好幾個團體針對我們要參加WHA的記者會台灣有21個醫師團體今天召開記者會我們從2017年一直到現在邁入第8年我們都一直沒辦法參與WHA我相信很多人都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11853.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11877.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我們非常了解是因為中國的打壓造成台灣沒辦法來參加這個WHA的這樣的世界衛生大會那我想這個外交部應該也做過很多的努力當然中國的打壓是無所不在任何形式的打壓那我們也看到就是說美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11879.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11905.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
國務卿布林肯也公開的鼓勵還有支持可是這一屆我們還是沒有收到邀請函我想請教部長針對這一部分因為5月27號就要召開大會我想請教外交部或者是今天也有衛福部我們國際合作組也有過來我想請教外交部在這方面我們要怎麼去突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11907.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11925.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
非常謝謝委員有關於我們參加世界衛生組織這是一條蠻艱辛的一條道路尤其是中國在國際組織裡面他們所能夠動員的Global South就是全球南方的這些國家的數量算是相當的龐大 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11926.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11951.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
為了要讓我們接下來能夠順利的參與世界衛生組織那我們也跟這些有盟國家尤其是美國都有定期的針對國際組織的這個參與來進行討論那像美國或者是說其他的一些有盟國家對於我們的參與他們也都非常的支持也在想辦法去結合更多的這些理念向近國家來力挺我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11952.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11978.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
在過去這段時間我們看到支持我們的這些國家不管是用這種發言的方式或者是聯合競洽的方式或者是說用聯名函的這種方式這個國家是越來越多成績是越來越高另外也有很多的國家的國會議員他們對我們台灣的參與也是非常的支持他們用決議案的方式或者是聯名函的這個方式我們都可以感受得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11979.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11980.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
其實台灣沒辦法來參加這個WHA其實這個也是世界的損失啦其實我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11997.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12021.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
台灣在這個醫療方面其實都做得非常的好尤其是在公衛公共衛生這個區塊其實是世界有目共睹的那在疫情這幾年期間其實台灣台灣可以幫助真的是幫助世界很多的國家那我們也看到就是說其實台灣有很多醫療或者是公衛的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12022.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12044.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我們從公的部分可能走不出去也許從民間的力量可以來協助那我們看到這一次也有很多的醫療團體他們也自給自費要去參與可能周邊的一些會議那我們也希望說未來新的內閣應該也要有更多的資源或者是協助讓這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12046.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12050.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那我是請教部長未來你是到這個國安會當秘書長那我相信未來的部長應該也可以再繼續延續下去那我是不是可以先請教部長未來我們要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12069.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12091.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
有關於跟那個NGO一些民間團體的這個合作這個都是一致的這個方向那我們這邊的這種協助是不遺餘力所以有一些民間團體他們希望能夠協助政府來參與我們都提供他們一些必要的這些協助那像那個我們台灣醫師會接下來的我們的那個衛福部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12092.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12116.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
他本身就是台灣醫師會的這種非常重要的幹部那之前我跟他之間的那個合作關係也是非常的密切要確保說我們台灣醫師會能夠在我們參與世界衛生組織的這個過程當中能夠扮演重要的這種角色和力量那我想這種精神會持續下去畢竟這個就是我們台灣在全世界各地能夠展現的一個最好的一個力量是 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12117.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12134.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
其實我覺得一般的民眾台灣一般的民眾會覺得說台灣確實在國際的這個地位要走出去有它的困難可是民間的力量確實是無窮的民間的力量可以透過NGO的這個組織然後讓台灣走出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12135.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12146.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
所以我也希望說未來新的內閣可能也是真的要朝著這個方向那另外我想請教就是說我們現在的邦交國雖然剩下十多個那應該非邦交國其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12154.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12156.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
韓國、美國、英國、日本、韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12183.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12184.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我可以先請教一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12213.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12232.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
謝謝委員先回答第二個問題就是有關於立陶宛的部分的確他們現在是總統的選舉然後10月還會有一個國會議員的選舉在選舉的時候民主國家各式各樣的議題都會退出來目前他們的總統有提過好幾次不同的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12234.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12252.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我們也會密切的關注但是有關於我們跟他們之間的這個協議涉及到我們的那個代表處的名稱這個是一個很嚴肅的這個兩國之間的這個協議那這個權利應該是在他們的內閣手上那到目前為止我們看不出來說他們內閣會針對這個事情有所討論那相反的 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12256.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12271.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
即使是未來可能成為執政黨的目前的反對黨他們在這個議題上面他們也非常力挺跟台灣之間的這個關係所以這個事情要請國人放心說接下來應該是不會有任何的變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12273.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12289.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
第二個問題也是涉及到就是原來的第一個問題那這涉及到過去這幾年之間我們外交部的這個努力我們都知道那個中國對於我們的這個邦交國的這個部分就是花了很多的力氣用了很多的這些資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12290.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12296.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我們如果說不像中國那樣去處理用一些不當的資源浪費國人的納稅錢去處理的話我們如果不這樣去處理的話那個壓力一定會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12305.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12334.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
在這個壓力的狀況之下我們必須要去開拓更多的這個國際空間也就是說跟我們沒有邦交但是可以跟我們發展很好的這個合作關係的這些國家包括美國加拿大英國歐盟主要的國家或者是中東歐的國家等等的那在過去這段時間我們台灣跟這些國家的這個關係讓我們國人看到了那我想總統所形容的就是說我們上架台灣這個是我們共同努力的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12335.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12356.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
在國際的重要場合我們台灣也成為一個重要的關鍵字也就是大家在重要的聚會的時候都會提到臺海的和平穩定非常重要關乎全球的和平與繁榮那這個就是我們努力的這個方向讓全世界看到我們台灣的美好那這個方向我們會持續下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12357.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12357.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12385.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12398.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
謝謝 接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢謝謝主席 麻煩有請部長請部長黃委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12407.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12421.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
部長我上次在質詢的時候跟部長交換過意見我們台灣台灣人非常的善良世界各地需要台灣人的協助我們永遠是願意伸出我們溫暖的雙手 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12422.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12442.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
上次跟部長建立了一個原則是說我們在員外的時候的這些計畫廉政跟透明的基本要求非常的重要上次部長你也表示肯定嘛那上一次4月15號在外交國防委員會裡面的時候的詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12442.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12467.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我也提到了我們臺灣透過咖啡所提出的各式各樣的援助甚至對於當初我們的前當交國洪都拉斯所提供的一些援助那我也給您時間那也才是了說您兩個禮拜之內順便報告給我們但我到目前為止沒拿到 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12469.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12495.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
跟委員報告一下我們其實那個上次的質詢之後我們就有很積極的去跟咖啡去跟他們討論那因為有一些涉及到很多細節的部分在跟他們做那個往返那很快很快就會上網了國務部長我知道您明天就要總辭了那您要到另外一個位置去但我覺得在國會我們建立一個基本的原則我覺得是重要的就是說到要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12497.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12518.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
如果說到沒有做到事先來解釋可能是有必要的嘛我到今天站在這個質詢台以前我痴痴的等我等不到東西外交部沒有遵守那個時候4月15號的承諾也沒有人來說明部長您覺得這樣OK嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12520.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12540.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這樣子可能不是很好但是跟委員報告我們有在努力而且很快的就會上網了分兩個部分嘛你要做的努力你去做努力而且我老實說齁這個承諾不是在這一次國會的時候才做的喔上一屆國會的時候臺灣民眾黨的邱承遠委員其實也提出了這樣的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12541.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12553.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
那只是我們那個時候開始在針對我們對於卡貝的援助跟國際的反貪腐組織OCCPR我們開始合作的時候那個時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12555.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12580.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
對於我們跟國際的反貪腐組織我們一起合作的計畫release出來了以後其實部長您可以去看那個合作計畫在國際的媒體圈其實引發了相當大的迴響也促成了卡貝進一步的改革那當然啦MOSI也是因為那件事情其實大部分的國家都不支持他了好但 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12581.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12582.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我會說當天結束的時候大概兩天 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12610.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12637.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我們當初就是那個質詢結束之後幾天之內就已經提供書面的這個資料給委員的辦公室了我必須要跟部長講我會再回去查但我今天在這邊質詢的時候我到目前為止我還沒有收到那樣的list我會後會再跟外交部的同仁check到底是哪一個環節出了問題這個函我們本身會有本文那我們這個也調出來讓委員知道好 可以第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12638.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12648.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我上次在質詢的時候也提到紅國的第一夫人遭貪腐判刑那之前是判了比較久到2022年的時候14年for corruption在上面你應該看得很清楚上次我提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12658.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12679.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我們給宏都拉斯基本上面的員外的計畫被他們的夫人拿去貪腐您上次給我的答覆是那不是錢跟我們這邊沒有關係但我後來去調我後來去調聯合國針對在宏國他們所成立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12680.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12706.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
去Fight Against Corruption的這個委員會他們出來的調查報告寫得很清楚他出來的調查報告錢的確是我們提供給宏都拉斯的跟您上次跟我所做的回覆完全不一樣部長可不可以請您說明一下這個部分倒是我沒有注意到那個聯合國的這個報告我請我們的同仁實際上在掌握這個業務的同仁跟委員說明好 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12708.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12723.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
公務員報告當初在這個案子爆發的時候是計劃已經執行完之後那當地的新聞有揭露說可能有17萬的那個被貪污的錢是可能來自我方那我們的同仁當時因為還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12724.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12728.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
等一下等一下等一下先停一下喔您現在看齁我螢幕上面秀出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12746.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12775.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那個是那個委員會他們做出來的調查報告他講的很具體喔是從2011年到2014年前總統任內的時候有高達400萬美金來自各種來源的捐款包括來自台灣那當然啦我們在外面的外交處境很艱困所以他們的委員會寫中國台灣我自己看了也不是很舒服但我們就是論事就是人家的調查說有來自台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12776.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12797.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
但部長跟我說跟台灣沒有關係所以我就覺得很困惑了我們進一步的去看說2022年就最近的一個判決柏琳娜被判處14年有期徒刑的時候在這個判決書裡面現在我放在左手邊的這個是他們的法院在判決了以後所公布的新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12797.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12816.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
在新聞稿裏面寫說2010年到2014年啟動宏都拉斯兒童鞋子與制服計畫那在這個計畫裏面他簽了假合約把錢給套出來然後我具體的問這個計畫是不是台灣支持的是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12820.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12835.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
因為我吼我為什麼說原外的計畫要公開透明我查了預算書我到了國和會的網站所以所有國內可以找的公開資訊我負責任的講我全部都找完了我不知道但那邊的判決書外媒的報導這個計畫是台灣support的 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12842.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12850.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
所以我要請教一下外交部這個宏都拉斯兒童鞋子與制服計畫是不是台灣support的因為判決書講得很清楚錢是從這邊汙的 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12853.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12874.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
幫委員我們在跟第一夫人辦公室的很多那個社福計畫裡面確實有類似的計畫但是他貪污的錢是不是從都是台灣的這個部分等一下等一下這是兩個不同的概念都是台灣的跟他貪污的錢有從台灣來的這是兩個不同的概念我從頭到尾沒有說都是台灣來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12875.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12897.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那個委員會的調查報告寫了來源很多包括了在外媒在調查委員會特別點出了是從台灣援助的這個計畫來的因為我希望把客觀的事實弄清楚今天我們援助的錢被他們前總統夫人污了不是我們的錯是他們的錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12899.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12918.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這個我不會因為說錢被他們的前總統夫人汙了責怪我們外交部的同仁我上來就事論事做錯事的是他們的前總統夫人怎麼可以把台灣人要援助宏都拉斯小孩子買衣服買鞋子的錢都汙了可惡有罪的是他們的前總統夫人但問題是什麼但問題是這件事情被汙了 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12929.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12957.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
臺灣啊我希望要有立場要有立場我們有立場是屋前的是他們的前總統夫人臺灣人可以停我們可以暫時腰桿跟紅國人民說我們很痛心啊我們要援助你們小朋友的就這樣子被屋了這個是我覺得我們應該有的立場而不是發生了這件事情了以後客觀的事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12959.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12986.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
在國會裡面部長說這個錢跟台灣沒有關係但跟外媒的報導跟調查委員會的報告甚至連他們法院release的新聞稿全部都不符合啊部長您懂我的意思嗎我知道這個事情是不是可以請外交部的同仁再確定一下因為我已經從外媒調查委員會的法院的新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12987.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12998.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我全部都把事情給找出來再確定一下是不是錢是從台灣來如果錢是從台灣來的我相信我們挺直腰桿說該說的話會贏得國際社會的尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13002.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13031.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
兩點跟委員回應就是以前也曾經有一些媒體報導跟訪過相關的這個事情那到最後我們去查是沒有查到說有跟我們有相關那委員既然再提出來我請我們的同仁再來查這是第一件事情第二件事情我們也非常反對挪用我們要協助其他國家的人民的錢作為他們的那個私人的這個資金這個我們是絕對反對的那如果有這些事情的話我們加以譴責 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13033.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13050.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
非常好 其實我要的只有這個態度因為我知道從現實上面錢都被人家汙走了要討什麼也討不回來但我們在進行外交工作的時候這一點我們的原則要挺直腰桿勇敢的講我覺得這樣子絕對會得到國際社會的尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13053.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13054.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13087.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13089.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
謝謝主席,麻煩請部長報言好部長好,今天登記質詢的總共有53位委員來賓有32位民進黨的委員19個國民黨的委員,2個民眾黨的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13112.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13127.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
民進黨的委員顯然大軍壓境的狀況比較多所以其實沒有施壓的問題今天在國會任何委員只要對於我們的行政業務或者我們在質詢的這個其實是他們的義務跟職責 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13130.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13157.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
所以我想其實不需要套上任何的帽子今天為什麼大家會重視這個當然部長未來你已經邀到國安會你未來的面向更廣不過我們也希望大家可以用對國家利益最好的態度來面對那今天有幾個問題我們還是在這裡請教因為畢竟是在您手上我想要請教我們很多的文件列密的目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13157.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13164.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
因為我自己在之前也大家一直說我洩密可是到現在都沒有說我洩什麼密反而有很多在媒體直播然後透過很多的不該知道機密的人一直說出來沒有人對他有任何的追究這個現象很奇怪所以我想要請教部長的是我們列密的目的是什麼是內容還是那一張紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13186.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13210.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
最主要是那個內容以及文件本身我們很認同我們在對於任何的規範或者我們在法律律定的大家去遵守可是我們現在要說的是我們到底在乎的是內容還是那張文件因為已經本末倒置了 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13211.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13223.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我們從過去到現在不管是國防的武器裝備不管是現在的外交的政策或者對外的很多的種種作為等等我們在乎的我們應該要保守秘密的是我們不要受到干擾而不是在國內引起紛爭這也是這一次為什麼大家會拿出來討論而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13231.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13231.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
在俄烏戰爭以來,我們援助烏克蘭累計已經達到1億美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13249.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13275.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那這一次外交部委託捷克以第三方援助烏克蘭有幾個問題希望在這裡可以好好的釐清好不好因為他畢竟花的是國家的預算還有人民的納稅錢首先這個一千萬現金我們提供了一千萬美元的一個捐助那其中匡了百分之三十的金額要向台灣採購我們現在比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13280.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13281.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
為什麼這30%的醫療用品要向台灣採購? |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13286.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13290.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
這個是那個立法院在2014年的這個不是2014年因為其實之前我們在援助其他的因為俄武戰爭這個不是第一筆啊你已經累積到1億美金了我們老實說外交部會這麼認真的去追溯到2014年我也很懷疑啊我們現在要講的是為什麼要這麼做因為我們既然是這個是捐助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13310.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13311.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
什麼透過第三者 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13336.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13341.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
可是部長你記得嗎2011年那時候二五戰爭剛開始的時候而且那時候還不是只有在烏東喔那時候連基輔都是被打的一個範圍可是2011年4月份的時候你還跟基輔市長親自視訊第二次如果說要涉及到中央政府的話這個很困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13361.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13372.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
您可以跟基輔市長對話其實他們會掌控到所有的很多的資訊如果基輔市長你都可以在5月31號的時候你跟另外一個市長哈爾科夫哈爾科夫就在烏東了你也跟他做了視訊那時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13379.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13397.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
這個已經是烏東在戰爭陰影之下的一個城市可是你也跟他做了視訊所以可見如果我們願意我們可以很清楚的聯繫到或者如果不行那也沒關係可是你必須清楚的了解到他們需要的是什麼可是你用這樣的理由我們不能接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13398.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13414.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
如果在當時這麼緊張的狀況之下你都還可以跟他們視訊為什麼到現在甚至你在烏東的一個需求我們還要透過第三者當然也可以不是不行可是為什麼要匡了30%的醫療用品因為我記得那時候我們在圓屋的時候我們也有物資送過去對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13420.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13427.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那時候物資大家最質疑的或者包括外交部都覺得很傷腦筋的就是我們的運費那你今天歐洲的很多的醫療用品會比我們台灣差嗎你今天是他們的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13435.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13463.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
你今天不是用最好最高級的而是要最迅速最需要的所以怎麼樣的方向會是對他們最好你錢都捐給人家了你為什麼一定要要求他一定30%要跟台灣買這是大家不能理解的目的之一第二個我們3月份的時候其實台南也有民間的企業其實他有送醫療器材到烏克蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13464.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13474.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那民間都可以跟他們聯繫上都知道他們可能需求什麼那我們怎麼會不知道堂堂一個外交部這是第二個第三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13475.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13478.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我們到底要不要用政府採購法我覺得那個都可以討論可是問題就是我們剛才講的你明明最近的而且你已經把現金送過去你還要在他買買我們這裡的然後再花一筆運費再運到那裡去這不是多此一舉嗎而且你浪費掉那些錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13498.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13503.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
這個部分到底後來會被誰又多賺了一筆所以這個是我們覺得應該要很清楚的另外他在3月份他都已經調查這樣的需求現在可不可以告訴我們他們決定現在他們最欠缺的是什麼他們想要買什麼要買多少錢或者多少數量有沒有給我們一個清單 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13520.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13526.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
他們會給我們期中報告這邊我跟委員說明一下部長我覺得期中報告跟他的需求要把它分開因為他從3月到現在已經兩個月如果這是他們急著必需的醫療用品包括藥品這個是不能等的照理說他們的需求因為也不是非常多的錢這怎麼會等到他的期中報告他要跟台灣買我現在說的是要跟台灣買的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13549.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13567.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
他們也有對外來公開一個影帶說裡面這些東西是跟或者是說這些東西是made in Taiwan那其實我們跟他們講說這個東西是要向台灣採購那這只要是所以早就送過去了是嗎只要是made in Taiwan不管是什麼樣的影台 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13569.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13581.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
是嗎不是就是說他們只要在那個市面上能夠找到什麼樣made in Taiwan的這些東西而不是Buy from Taiwan那這個就符合我們的需求部長made in Taiwan跟Buy from Taiwan你這個在玩文字遊戲的今天部長聽我講完我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13588.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13601.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
因為今天如果你只是要人家買說是台灣製造的東西在捷克可能可以買到在哪裡可以買到或者只要有台灣的生產的通通可以你的意思是這樣嗎那怎麼會在這裡面規範那通常會是好意的私底下口頭拜託他們說那盡量買我們的我們是在援助其他國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13612.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13625.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
在很必須的人道救援的時候我們還要考量到這樣的因素這個是讓人家覺得很奇怪的因為我們的人沒有實際的進去沒有辦法實際進去保證你如果說這個保分我們就要來探討我們希望說在這個很快的時間你把他們的清單提供出來因為你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13633.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13645.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
Made in Taiwan 跟 By Front Taiwan 這是不一樣的那你現在是針對我們的問題在做這樣的一個解釋而已啦如果是這樣 如果是人道救援 如果在捷克可以買到你還要求說一定是台灣的 那叫什麼人道救援 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13655.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13666.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
如果是這樣子的話你剛剛那個理由我覺得就更不可原諒了因為你好的藥品歐洲也很多啊我們很多的那個學名藥我們有很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13667.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13671.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
最主要是器材我們台灣是醫療器材的大國歐洲沒有嗎?你什麼樣的器材?所以部長你已經講到重點了麻煩你把他們的需求因為你說你不知道他們需要什麼到現在還沒有提供給我們可是你剛剛說他們需要的是器材而且台灣很強那希望你把這個器材他需要的什麼樣的器材提供給我們委員會好不好第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13692.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13705.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
就是說我們現在今天也討論到針對外交部去報告裡面提到的就是我們今天的重點我們對能不能加入WHA |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13707.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13721.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
其實這個部分外交部在報告裡面有提到我們對國外的政府對民意機關還有團體其實他們有很多很多透過媒體也好短片也好投書也好或很多有效的行動也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13722.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13748.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
都在支持希望我們可以進入WHA可是我想請教一下臺灣在2009年到2016年都有收到WHO幹事長邀請臺灣以觀察員身份參加WHA的原因跟現在沒有辦法參加的原因你可不可以用比較簡單的方式讓我們知道為什麼在過去可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13749.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13750.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
2009年那個眾所周知是因為我們接受了中國的這個政治的條件什麼樣的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13773.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13773.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
韓國瑜議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13802.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13807.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
2016年也是嘛2016年你們接受了嗎2016年我們也2016年的時候我那時候在擔任國安會的秘書長的第一天我們就在處理這件事情結果呢如果是這樣你們已經是掌控已經是執政了如果是因為這樣照理說那時候要拒絕參加的可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13829.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13832.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
我們還是參加了從2009年到2014年我們2016年我現在要知道的是我們到底失去什麼我們在人家妥協什麼我們才可以參加那我們現在沒有辦法參加然後說包括美國美國你說非常力挺包括布林肯都大聲的疾呼這可見是美國使了非常大的力氣可是我們還是沒有辦法參加那他到底最重要的原因是什麼只是因為我們不願意可是2016年 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13857.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13862.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
民進黨已經執政了我們還是參加啦所以就這個部分我覺得這樣子的說辭可能也沒辦法讓大家可以很信服我們還是希望以整體的國家利益如果因為衛生健康這些主要的一個訴求我們台灣有這麼優秀的正好的一個能量量能我們要參加我們應該在可以接受的範圍我們就應該參加可是我們顯然沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13885.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13905.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
就這個部分我只最後一個問題請教好不好很簡單的回應委員就是2016年的時候我們去參加但是我們也對外發言非常的清楚就是沒有接受中國的這些政治條件也沒有接受中國對2758號決議案以及WHO第25.1案的這種說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13910.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13928.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那至於說在2009到2016年之間的這個參與接受了九二條件之後的這個參與那至於有關於這件事情是因為每一個政府在針對台灣主權的這個部長上面有不同的這個看法2016年那時候的政府是沒有接受九二共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13935.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13940.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
從剛剛到現在大概都有提到這些可是2758早就有了我現在要說的是2009到2016年這中間如果當民進黨執政以後那裡面有不可接受的條件那可是我們還是參加的你還是接受的那這中間最大的差異到後面2017年到2024年目前我們都沒有辦法參加我們會損失什麼這個部分這個部分必須要把它拿捏清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13961.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13962.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
我最後一次請教這一次幫我們在WHO提案的邦交國有幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13982.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14003.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
目前正在增加當中因為我們還有好幾天的時間我們預期是所有的邦交國應該都沒有還在增加嗎還沒有增加之前到目前有幾個這個部分容許我就先不對外說明這樣子有困難嗎有好幾個沒有困難已經有好幾個那什麼時候可以告訴我們520之後還是等一下可以先來報告因為有沒有很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14012.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14014.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
下禮拜五我們就可以公開了五二零之後啊 擔心什麼沒有就是我們要沒有因為我現在問的不是說在你開會正式開會當下而是現在到目前為止有多少邦交國或非邦交國幫我們提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14030.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14030.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14073.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14082.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
主席各位委員還有各位官員大家好今天的質詢一開始我想先請衛福部的代表上台請主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14086.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14097.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
謝謝我希望提醒我們衛福部在今天我們一同列席的外交部夥伴們此刻正是緊鑼密鼓的也用心的在針對臺美21世紀貿易倡議的各項議題對外進行的談判目前更是進展到了勞動權益的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14104.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14130.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
但是呢我不知道長官有沒有看到新聞齁在本週爆出的新聞只屬我們衛福部的雙和醫院卻因為有違規排班的爭議讓一名有孕再生的女醫師表明已經無法再做原本工作之後呢沒有想到還要被要求值過夜班甚至暴露在游離輻射的場所最終在爆肝值班32小時的情況下害得寶寶流產了 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14134.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14157.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
最終這名女醫師也才痛心的發文我想請教衛福部我們在做醫療外交的同時不管是硬體或是軟體輸出剛剛馬文君朝委已經看了很多我們輸出醫療相關的東西做外交但是呢我們衛福部衛福部所屬機關之間仍是一條邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14158.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14186.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
發生了如此重大女醫師醫事人員的勞動事件這對不管是我們未來臺美21世紀貿易倡議的談判或是我們即將出訪去日內瓦的WHA世衛大會的觀察團做國際外交的醫療都對我們的國家形象對於勞權的尊重有所影響所以我們不光是要對國際驕傲的說出Taiwan can help |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14187.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14211.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
連臺大醫院的院長都說臺灣可以幫助各項醫療指標是建立在血汗醫護壓榨的前提之下所以我也想我希望你們可以對國內的醫事從業人員對病患爆肝的醫事人員提供這樣子超出服務的醫療水準展現出We do care所以我想請教您認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14215.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14218.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
那您對於這一週這個雙核醫院的事件衛福部一條邊請問會如何處理呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14234.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14253.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
法委 這個事情不在我的職責範圍內請同我回去跟長官請示一下因為我是國際合作所以我主要是負責國際合作所以請問可以請衛福部一周內可以儘速提出檢討報告嗎如何在你們管轄的醫院落實性別平權還有勞動的平權好的可以好那接下來我們請 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14260.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14265.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
外交部部長跟衛福部的官員一同因為我具備醫師的身份部長你好所以本月也會一起出席日內瓦WHA這邊要感謝衛福部還有外交部許許多多的行政流程都非常的繁瑣但是本席很好奇的是去年我們薛部長就有率團在透過我們跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14289.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14308.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
台灣、美國、日本、澳洲首度在WHA期間的GCTF這個Framework平台舉辦周邊會議的時候當時薛部長有利用美國衛生部全球事務助理培斯當場致詞的時候提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14310.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14324.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
台灣已經注意到WHA於議後提出新的PRED防範與抵禦新興威脅的倡議所以我在這邊請問一下衛福部跟外交部對於這個PRED的重要性可以講出來嗎我請衛福部先來 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14333.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14355.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
委員質詢的是有關於WHA目前在制定的大流行病公約是嗎是他是用來協助因為大家知道說現在新型的傳染病有可能一瞬間就發生而且是跨國之間會發生所以他是協助各國可以提升未來因應大流行威脅的防疫的韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14356.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14381.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
所以當時薛部長在場外的時候希望我們可以參加這個PRENT可是呢後續非常可惜我們來看我親自透過所有網路的搜尋外交部衛福部的官網系統的查詢都看不到任何的後續進展可以請教一下這個PRENT的事情雷聲大雨點小後來就沒消沒洗原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14383.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14392.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
有關這個PRACT其實它本身是一個WHO內部的一個計畫那我們這邊還在持續跟WHO這邊交涉說怎麼樣讓台灣參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14394.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14420.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
好 你們很重視這件事情所以我們未來應該要怎麼利用國際間這個倡議還有附帶的資源讓國人可以體驗到有感嘛有感的施政畢竟現在大家過著疫情後的生活所以其實全國人民也隨時在準備說萬一我們有再一波新型的傳染病應該要如何來抵禦好 終於找到一篇什麼時候提到了PRED |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14422.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14437.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
居然是在這個去年的4月有舉辦過一次會議這個訂定了2025年12月的工作目標而且是從我們交通部的航港局每月海事要聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14438.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14454.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
講到的工作目標說包括籌備專門的投資本於對醫事健康政策的重視然後我們在這個航運啊等等疫情啊重大疾病的差距啊等等這件事情你們都知道嗎一無所知 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14465.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14477.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
所以其實薛部長去年參加WHA就在一個公開的演說講到台灣非常重視也很希望參加PRAT但是呢後面都沒有任何的相關動作了我們就是透過那個跟WHO在溝通要參與這個倡議好我們都看得出來因為有時候我們是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14492.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14499.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
架構之外嘛 場外的這個GCTF這個平台來做推案才會比較順利嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14500.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14528.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
所以我們這個美國、日本、澳洲等等大家一起成立的 Framework其實它很像你走去一個吃到飽的餐廳可是你不夾菜因為你的這個 Framework過去一年我查了一下你們舉辦了二三十場的活動有能源的、有反假資訊的、有性別暴力的就是沒有任何關於公共衛生的不覺得這樣子會很可惜嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14529.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14543.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
不覺得台灣應該要主動來提議辦公衛相關的活動才可以讓世界知道台灣的公衛軟實力嗎?這四個國家我想問一下你們是怎麼決定每年你們要討論哪些topic? |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14546.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14569.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
跟委員報告一下就是我們針對那個GCTF的各個場次其實都有公開啦那針對公共衛生的這個部分其實我們也有好幾場包括那個去年在那個世界衛生大會期間的辦的那一場那個GCTF我說的是這一年來這是我查到的譬如說5月23號就是有一場在日內我要舉行有沒有其他的有沒有其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14570.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14571.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
請我們的北美市長來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14600.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14625.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那我也幫衛福部講幾句話衛福部過去一年來有主動提出要求希望可以外交部幫忙協助在這個framework爭取多一點的防疫啊公衛等等的相關議題嗎如果有的話我們一定會支持對好因為我希望全世界都準備好的時候台灣也可以準備好好嗎希望衛福部可以一周內交出檢討報告好謝謝各位謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14631.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14633.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
王洪威議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14657.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14683.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
的林北要跟你吵到底引起非常多的爭議那我也看到你跟媒體受訪的時候你的說法但是部長你的這個發言是用外交部的官方社群平台來發言所以以一個外交部長的身份用外交部的社群平台說林北一定跟你吵到底部長你覺得合適嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14686.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14708.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
有關於這件事情我今天早上已經說明過幾次了就是說在上個禮拜五最後一場的那個媒體查序裡面媒體聯誼會的會長用這個幽默來給我那我也是用幽默的方式來呈現媒體可能給你開玩笑給你封號但是你用外交部的官方社群去講林北跟你吵到底你覺得合適嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14709.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14722.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
有關於那個社群媒體的方式就是social media那這個不是一個正式的管道這是官方的社群平台不是你個人的社群平台吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14723.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14740.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
有關於這個部分我今天早上已經講過好幾次了就是說媒體對我的這個幽默那我用幽默的方式來回應但是你可以在官方社群平台這樣的放鬆跟放肆嗎這就是一個社交媒體上面所呈現的一個幽默 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14742.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14742.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
我想有關於我們臺灣鄉下因為我來自鄉下 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14762.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14764.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
你不要扯鄉下嘛你不要扯鄉下部長你喔就是公私不分啦公私不分公私不分啦好來部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14779.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14792.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
部長在另外再跟你請教接下來520之後你要到國安會擔任秘書長那請問一下現在新發布的副秘書長林飛帆先生是您推薦的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14794.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14813.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
並不是我推薦但是我知道這個任命的這個過程我也認為說他非常的自裁自說在程序上你是先同意接任國安會秘書長然後林飛帆是後來然後您得知他要擔任副秘書長是吧是後來得知但是我覺得說非常的好請問一下林飛帆擔任副秘他會負責哪一方面的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14821.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14826.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
他以後負責外交方面全部的外交方面沒有我們進去了之後會再做一些分工基本上他是外交方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14836.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14840.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
所以秘書長林飛帆先生因為他沒有任何的外交、國防甚至連公務機關的經驗都沒有所以你認為他可以成為你的得力助手 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14858.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14871.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
他在過去這段時間他有到美國的智庫去做進修那他也到很多的國家去進行演講去進行交流甚至是NGO甚至是跟政府部或者是國會我認為沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14874.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14878.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
另外一個要回到外交部現在的問題在上個星期您接受廣播節目因為大家也知道立陶宛因為正在進行選舉所以呢立陶宛總統就拋出了一個就是說要把 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14896.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14909.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
原來的我們的臺灣辦事處的名稱想要把它改成臺北辦事處那麼我有注意到您在上週接受媒體的採訪的時候你也掛保證對不對你也掛保證說不會改變是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14913.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14917.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
上次是說依照目前的情勢來看的話應該是不會改變因為他們的總統是不涉入到內閣的權利所以總統的這個發言是一個選舉的這個發言你說他們不是總統制等等之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14931.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14947.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
部長我請教這個是一個非常重要的外交跟政治上的判斷那麼如果未來極為不幸的立陶宛在經過這場選舉之後那麼真的他把我們的台灣辦事處改成台北辦事處之後請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14948.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14961.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
你會不會遲遲以事負責因為我剛剛講這是重要的這是一個假設性的問題我相信我們外交部的所有同仁都會努力去讓這個事情是不會發生的所以你是說以後發生是歸外交部是不該領國安會的事囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14964.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14975.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
我們已經預期到就是說他們10月會有那個國會議員的選舉那國會議員的選舉就是重組他們的內閣的時候那針對各個政黨我們都保持非常密切的聯繫所以10月之後應該也不會有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14979.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14997.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
所以啊我知道你講不會被改變嘛那我說你掛保證的事情你為什麼不敢不敢拿你的烏紗帽呢這是很重要的政治判斷欸啊你如果覺得說他有可能我們努力這也是一種說法你說不會被改變啊啊你講得這麼斬釘截鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14999.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15003.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
所以你現在不敢講說假使有這樣子不幸的事情發生因為我們立陶宛啤酒也喝了我們立陶宛半導體的技術也送給他們了我們幾乎都是盡量的配合在這樣的狀況之下我們的台灣辦事處還會被改名 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15021.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15021.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
已經跟委員說了我們會避免這種事情發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15038.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15059.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
所以啊我現在問了你還是不敢用這個用你自己負政治責任我們會努力去避免這個事情發生我們再來看下一個因為最近我們也大概討論到就是我們援助烏克蘭的部分那麼也特別提到因為你們也控告了這個徐巧欣委員但是我要就教於部長了因為我們事實上從111年開始我們就在援助烏克蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15066.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15087.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
111年呢,都是我們直接性的援助,比如說包含對學校啦,民生基礎設施啦,對發電的這個能源設備等等之類的。到了112年,它有很大的改變。這些東西啊,通通不是密件,因為這也都是你們提供給我們那個研究室的資料。 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15087.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15108.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
也就在112年的時候其實我們就很多用第三國的方式去援助烏克蘭包含我們跟波蘭的合作包含我們跟立陶宛的合作包含我們跟捷克的合作那當然其實若以111年看起來我們事實上是可以直接去援助烏克蘭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15109.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15132.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
那到了112年我們就跟了第三國合作那請問一下如果我們可以直接援助烏克蘭為什麼要經過第三國這是第一個問題第二個問題我們跟波蘭跟立陶宛跟捷克其實我們跟他們的合作並不會成為機密我剛講這些東西都是你們所提供給我們的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15133.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15155.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
那當時你們說為什麼徐曉新委員你要這個洩漏密切有什麼有什麼樣的危及國家的外交的問題呢說因為這會給捷克帶來困擾那徐曉新委員他也特別提出來了3月底捷克的官方的他的期刊就已經登出這個相關的計劃所以第一個捷克根本不覺得困擾第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15157.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15163.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
如果今天你擔心捷克發生困擾那立陶宛會被困擾呢波蘭會被困擾呢顯然你們也不擔心他困擾然後也提供給我們這樣的計畫所以請教一下為什麼徐曉欣所提供的那個要成為密件看不出他有何密之有啊你們所提出來的源自烏克蘭我們早就在做你們根本挑蘿打鼓的在做第二個透過第三國 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15185.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15198.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
第三國他們都沒有在擔心這些事情然後你們用這個理由來說這個是密件所以現在很多的大家質疑就是說他到底何密之有你要把它列為密件呢請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15200.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15215.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
非常謝謝委員所提出來的這些問題在111億年的時候這些小額的援助是因為我們能夠直接跟這些地方的政府來進行溝通那他們跟我們提出需求之後那時候用一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15216.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15216.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15236.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15250.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
好那請問一下徐曉新委員所你們認為他是密件到底他何密自有你們要把他列入密件我剛講我們其他第三國通通也都有揭露啊他們有擔心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15253.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15273.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
傑克有來抗議說你們怎麼說我們幫助你呢?對不對?傑克沒有抗議啊!其實如果說注意看到CHTI的執行長在前幾天他覺得說他被我們國內的這些相關的人士所污蔑還感到非常的傷心感到非常的遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15274.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15276.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
他不是針對說揭露他協助台灣來援助烏克蘭嗎?他不是在抗議這一點嗎?他有抗議這一點嗎?就是論事,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15289.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15289.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
請委員瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15308.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15320.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
不過你們密不能全部都密件如果按照我給你的資料那個你們所謂的密件真的沒有什麼秘密可言我們也提供給委員的希望能夠讓委員來了解好 謝謝部長請轉達CHTA他們說他們覺得受到污蔑其實事實上應該沒有他們接收的訊息是有問題的所以外交部理當把它說明清楚好不好沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15338.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15358.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
因為你剛剛已經公開講了你剛剛已經公開講這非常嚴重因為今天我們剛剛也有講到宏都拉斯有講到就是有講到其他國家我們希望我們如果被其他國家或者跟我們合作的單位有問題的時候我想其實還是解釋清楚會比較好接下來請邱志偉委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15378.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15383.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
臨北不可能在這個地方討論臨北語言學的定義在什麼地方臨北甘許外交政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15403.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15430.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
臨北就不可能在14年來臨北就不可能在外交委員會討論臨北對外交政策的影響那是語言學問題領域來 裡面也有阿蕾阿蕾是什麼意思阿蕾是後面的人說我阿蕾阿蕾每一個國家都有他的語言看不同場合有不同表達方式嘛我阿蕾也是 僕也是 阿蕾也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15431.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15438.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
所以說你做多久不做多久兩年多兩年多我在中間要十四年十三年多我在做第一屆時說是在議堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15459.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15487.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
第一次的時候差不多十二年前我又是站在這裡我又要做交易雖然說是那個反對黨不是政治黨但是對國家的建設國防外交大家都有高度的共識是到尊重主席所以譬如說我對馬文君交易他的一些做法我沒有認同但是我從來 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15489.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15490.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
對我國的尊重基礎、憲政立法都是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15520.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15529.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
好不好 針對你的施政 我提出質詢 質詢有道理不能無厘頭 不能謾罵 不能情緒訓 不能咆哮我過去十幾年跟你互動 我有咆哮過嗎沒有我秉持一個原則 您要秉持一個溫良公檢當所以我尊重你自己的保證 我尊重東東山保證參與吳釗燮保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15550.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15550.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15580.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15589.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
先來講 先來證 邪魔就不入 先來講 邪魔就不入 先來講 邪魔就不入 怕你怕到不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15617.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15629.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
非常感謝委員應該說你也很辛苦連你這個外交部的工作都非常辛苦但是為了國家為了人民選擇選擇求實事做實事這個弱者 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15636.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15645.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
播聲量進口秀歡迎行者入圍入就所以外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15646.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15665.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
李國輝現在很認真對各行政策要好好討論你今天的報告裡面具體的推案作為包括所有的可以做的爭取國際與國幫認同到四位行動團包括用立法部門多元方式國際議論 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15667.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15691.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
每一年每一年的成果都還不錯都逐漸累積有什麼我們沒辦法還是沒辦法加入WHA當然一般的常識我會認為一定是一國一人在動嘛一國就是中華人民共和國對不對一個人就是那個幹事長幹事長的任期到什麼時候2027年阿拉庫喔嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15694.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15715.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
但是我們還是要持續不斷的努力在努力的過程中我們可以建立更多有我的力量培養更多的年輕人對這個問題的關注因為我們在世界各國的校園有很多留學生我們透過留學生的力量去影響他們的國家因為年輕人的聲音很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15718.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15744.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
所以這部分要加強這個對年輕人對這個問題的問題意識以及投入這個台灣WHA相關的這個作為沒有我看很多都你們可操之在我的部分應該全部都做了全部都做啊非操之在己的部分就是我講中國和團賽的這個部分你怎麼努力你就沒辦法突破嘛是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15745.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15763.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
我想委員說得非常對啦,就是完全超視在我們的這個部分,我們要再回頭過去檢視說還有什麼沒有做好,還是沒有做前啦。剛才你提到說我們在海外的這些留學生,我們海外的僑民的這個部分,我們有在努力,但是可能還可以再加強。 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15764.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15780.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
那有關於這種動員國際的這個友人的部分在過去這幾年我們有看到一些具體的成果比如說聯合進洽的這個官員的成績以及人數都在增加當中有幫我們寫推薦函的這些人也增加當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15781.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15804.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
那幫我們去公開講話的或者是說間接來講話的這個也都在增加當中所以這個是具體的方向所以說雖然這一條路有比較艱苦有比較辛苦但是你所做的都留下痕跡你所做的都會成為一個累積慢慢來你也累積到一個程度你的效果就會出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15805.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15808.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
尤其是他們的經濟能力下滑的過程做到緊繃做到慢待以時機適當的時機我們就可以達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15835.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15850.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
要有耐心不然還有信心然後結合所有年齡層的力量比如說尤其是年輕人像在海外那種對國家的領導我非常感動中國大賽在哈佛在那邊演講台灣女生在那邊唱歌這就是黃金培 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15862.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15876.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
所以你要鼓舞我們的校園長他們DNA就是愛台灣人的土地不敢台灣在國際社會上收到中國Q所以我就是說我還要講兩小時兩小時可能會浪費時間因為今天是你最晚嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15886.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15910.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那你雖然轉換寶島一樣是在這個國安體系你現在你擔任委員會的主任你還要整合以你的經驗我相信你會做得很好那我以困難你過去六年對國家人民的付出我再強調一次做聯合崗位心裡吃血沒不露你心裡吃藥沒幾個看著你像個兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15915.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15943.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
謝謝委員所以語重心長國家安全跟國防跟外交臺灣是個特殊的處境不管在什麼位置上我都會努力要與國家為念要與人民為念要與子子孫孫為念不能一己一師一黨之力你要博聲量 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15945.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15946.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15956.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15974.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
這個我相信所有的這些你們的司處長都很認真有時候這個要變成新的環境、新的變局有時候有理想背景所以你要對我們這個外交官有好理都要很認真我會力挺他們那你了解隨時在外館的每一個狀況都要給 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15980.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15988.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
讓所有的外交部同仁以作為中華民國外交官為榮好,謝謝,謝謝邱委員好,接下來請莊瑞雄委員上台質詢謝謝召委,有請我們外交部吳釗燮吳部長請吳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16017.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16042.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
委員你好部長好首先針對你這6年來人多人多嘛這樣的當外交部長這樣的一個辛勞還有跟我們外交部同仁的那個努力給予最高的一個肯定謝謝委員其實你不用怪他啦一個脆發一個什麼的面對無理的質疑林北一定跟你吵到底面對中國的威脅林北一定跟你奮戰到底這有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16044.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16049.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
我聽起來也覺得很粗鄙我聽起來也很粗鄙但是我覺得這也是外交部長面對中國你的態度是怎麼樣這個平常性看待 要找語病說什麼粗鄙 說什麼沒有禮貌聽聽就好了你施宗每天請他 內骨袋泡得很漂亮施宗請他很親 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16068.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16082.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
國民黨也不會給你打包給你下落啦你知道嗎在國會裡面啊本來就是有不同的一個聲音啦那其實啊其實要講說啊這個如果蔡政府執政這8年啊雖然說外交上失禮的事情我還真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16083.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16108.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
很難去想到反而我第一個想到的是反而是在馬政府時代我本時還記得那一陣我們大家在拍片的時候2010年安倍安倍晉三來訪台灣或者說2013年土華魯大使參加國宴都發生那種極度對人家不尊重連一個坐車都沒有去安排國際友人自費去搭計程車這個確實這8年至少我都還沒看過但是我回到正題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16109.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16138.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
我們過去在國際政治當中最熟悉的就是說大家都說若國無外交啦我如果這句話我如果記得不對就是說這個當年喔那個這個中華民國參加巴黎和會的外交官陸正祥這個阿伯這位中立的啦巴黎和會是第一次世界大戰以後呢秩序重整跟領土的重新劃分的1919年中國為了去取得這個山東的一個權益啊嘿那時候德國佔領嘛齁但是到最後啊仍然失敗 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16139.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16152.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
所以這個外交官陸正祥才有感而發但本席其實不完全認同這樣的一個觀點落國當然會比較困難這是真的本席想藉這個最後一次執行這個部長的一個機會來請問部長不管我們怎麼樣去定位台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16156.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16176.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
所謂在夾縫中的臺灣國際政治或者其他我想最後一次請部長好好跟國人說明就是說臺灣目前在國際政治當中我們還可以扮演什麼角色以及國際社會依然不把我們當成一個正常國家看待之下臺灣在國際政治上我們要怎麼自處 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16177.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16195.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
這個部長很厭倦請教你這真的是很好的問題這也是我們外交部這幾年來一直在思考的問題在這裡向委員報告過一段時間我們就是需要有很高度的創造性創造力才能夠去創造出一些不同的空間出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16196.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16219.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
因為承認我們的國家在中國的這個壓力之下越來越少也因此我們跟其他的這些民主國家之間的這個互動就是一個必要的一個東西那在過去這幾年之間我們跟很多的這些民主國家的關係不斷的提升不只是國會甚至是行政部門或者是一般社會大眾這個關係是不斷的提升比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16220.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16249.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
那個過去的外交部長很難出門的除非是說到邦交國去可是在過去這6年我們看到很多的這些國家陸續的都為我們台灣打開大門讓我們的外交部長能夠去公開的訪問公開的演講那這個就是一個比較創造性的一個結果那我們必須去秉持這種創造性的力量讓年輕的這些外交官都能夠提出他們的這個見解讓我們的整個外交部能夠具有這些相關的創造力和火力 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16249.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16265.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
在國會裡面每一個政黨的委員他當然會有不同的一個看法,立場不同嘛,你像比如說在野黨對於外交部啊,諸多的一個批評啊,其實如果我們批評,覺得我們做不夠的,合理嘛,我們批評嘛,那你要叫他們討論也比較困難啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16268.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16290.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
有時要任何一個行政部門其實自己都會有檢討會議那我們自己有缺失那個也都很正常但是本席有一個特別感慨就去年總統大選的時候這幾年了 幾年幾年都在說這個從當選人 準總統賴清德到兩位在野黨的候選人所端出的外交國防的一個政策我仔細的去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16291.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16307.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
其實跟現在小英總統的政策沒有多大的差距你像比如說柯文哲就曾經講過美國是台灣最重要的盟友呼籲要跟美國來深化這個合作最後也不言了直接說會延續蔡總統的路線國民黨的紅友在競選的時候也說這個台美軍事交流列為他的國防政見的一個重點而且要加強發展不對稱的一個戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16319.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16341.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
這也是小英總統現在在做的一個政策從這兩點就可以看得出來其實蔡總統的政見的一個方向這八年其實是非常正確在野黨挑戰者才會認為說要做這樣的一個延續所以我也期許我們部長到國安會以後也能夠就持續去協助新的政府在國際上讓我們的國家走得更穩健 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16345.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16363.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
但是我有一個要即刻去處理外交部的官網上面我們通常會在各國介紹介面緊急聯絡的方式提供給國人出國的時候可以運用泰國的部分更是提供LINE的帳號多元提供國人到泰國 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16364.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16382.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
緊急救助的時候這種服務上面雖然也提醒了國人賴帳號有加入好友人數的一個限制像我現在要加碼都加不進去了但是到現在你還是滿載的狀態持續好久的一段時間我就會覺得說一個好的政策宣達 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16384.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16398.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
也夠了那現在加不進去了那代表這個政策的一個工具對新的人來講的話這個是我們自己要去改善的地方是不是外交部去研議解決你像比如說不然我就多新設一個帳號或其他的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16399.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16402.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
謝謝委員提出這個方式我們會來加以了解並且加以改進我們在其他的管促最重要的緊急號碼是手機 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16427.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16443.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
這個手機都隨時隨地都有人直擊也就是說半夜你要打電話你也找得到人所以緊急的狀況的話我們的外管都會提供協助泰國也有那有關於LINE的這個部分的話我們來加以檢討改進我覺得軟體也很好那我們也不一定要只有泰國 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16444.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16468.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
長距離的地方,像日本或其他國家,國人在外發生什麼緊急的事情需要國家協助的時候,第一個想到的都是看我們外交部這個地方有沒有辦法做協助。我們想到這個,做到沒辦法就做改善而已。我們的本來好的政策、我們的目的就是要提供國人更便利,讓他去感受到國家對他的關心。 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16469.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16469.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16509.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16516.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
待會兒到郭裕請委員質詢完我們休息五分鐘現在請李昆城委員上台質詢謝謝主席我們請部長請部長部長好部長辛苦了所有的與會官員都辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16537.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16561.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
那這個部長請教一下齁這個過去齁您曾經被這個國台辦列為臺獨的頑固份子這個有您辦列進去嗎而且發表三千字的長文批判我包含我們的這個副總統蕭美琪她被制裁兩次被制裁兩次那還有我們現在未來的這個國防部長顧立雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16563.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16569.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
也都列入這個台獨頑固分子那請問一下這個列入台獨頑固分子對你有什麼影響嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16570.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16595.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
最主要就是說有一點傷腦筋啦就是兩件事情第一個我是推動那個維持現狀的一個最主要的執行者結果被列成那個台獨頑固分子第二個那個狀況是有很多真的是推動台獨運動的人他們對我非常的不滿對他們認為說你有這個勳章為什麼他們沒有是不是是他們問我說要去哪裡申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16597.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16623.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
現在我剛才講的包括您還有蕭美琴、顧立雄至少他們都是官員官員被國台辦列為台獨頑固分子至少我們是站在我們的崗位上面做我們該做的事情我看今天國台辦還把我們的名嘴不分藍綠包含黃世聰、余北辰、劉寶傑、李政浩、王逸川他的五位名嘴還有他們的家屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16624.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16652.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
都這個要來做這個因為他們傳播錯誤的言論然後呢要給予懲罰給予懲戒那個懲戒還包含除了他們個人之外呢還有家屬實施懲戒那過去因為你們是官員那現在是連這個一般的民眾他們只是在電視上面發表一些言論國台辦認為說你怎麼可以講說這個大陸高鐵沒有靠背你怎麼可以說這個大陸人這個買不起茶葉蛋還有認為說你在散步不時的言論那可是這個是在齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16654.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16667.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
這個520之前我認為他在520之前特地的對於我們一般的民眾他們就是民嘴而已然後給予這個懲戒那請問一下部長你未來是這個國安會秘書長你有沒有什麼樣的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16668.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16685.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
這個我們會仔細的來觀察就是說中國如果說在這方面不斷擴大的話到底會影響到多廣包括說我們的國人被制裁的這個國人要出門要過境等等的是不是會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16687.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16700.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
就之前我所知就是除了人之外還有一些機構也被列入制裁那這個可能造成一些寒產的效應或者是實際參與的這種限制那所以這個部分我們必須要持續的來觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16702.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16725.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
因為他是在520前特地宣布的,所以我認為他這一個要企圖利用這個來影響這520之前的這個兩岸關係而且他們不是這個官員,比如說像您或是像我們是民意代表就算了他們是一般的民眾,他們可以對這樣子一般民眾來做出這種懲戒而且還包括他的家屬,我認為這是非常嚴重的一個挑釁的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16727.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16752.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
我相信那個我們相關的機關會針對這個事情來做出回應我們台灣畢竟是一個言論自由的國家不管是支持哪一個政黨那這個言論的自由不應該有任何的限縮更何況是從外國想要來限縮我們的言論自由這個是絕對不能夠受到他們的影響是啊因為這個是不分來率喔我剛剛講那個五個名單是不分來率的那可是呢這不分來率都被 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16753.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16754.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
台灣民主基金會的董事長是誰? |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16777.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16795.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
這個是我們的立法院的院長對啊那目前就是我們的韓國瑜韓院長嘛那結果韓國瑜韓院長當這個董事長的這個機構台灣民主基金會也被他列為台獨頑固分子我不曉得我們的韓國瑜韓院長有什麼樣的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16796.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16819.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
那我再請教一下這個部長在5月18號有國民黨跟民眾黨的立委要登太平島那我記得在一個月之前你有說過就是說當時就是說有這個國民黨跟民眾黨的立委說這個希望要求這個總統能夠登太平島那時候你是講說太平島是中華民國的主權那個無庸置疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16820.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16832.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
兩岸在南海的爭議不斷升高的時候我們應該用和平的方式來解決這個問題而非製造問題請教一下一個月之後部長的看法怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16850.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16855.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
所以在520之前這些國民黨跟民眾黨立委要去太平島您認為這個時機還是不太好我覺得不是很好但是至於說他們要去這個是委員自己的這個決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16878.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16882.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
當時這個國安局長蔡明彥蔡局長他也是在這邊然後大家也是問到說這個太平島的會有一些風險性在因為他說我們的這一個國軍的運輔船曾經有這個被這個中國騷擾過 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16908.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16936.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
那請問一下齁這一趟齁這一個包含這一個20位的國民黨跟民眾黨列委過去要去太平島我們有提供什麼樣的一些援助或是說要避免因為畢竟吶這個航程有1600公里齁有沒有什麼樣的維安或是飛航上面的一些安全我們要去幫他們注意的這個部分我沒有確定啦齁因為這個是國防部在處理的那在外交部這邊並沒有涉入所以這部分就是跟外交部沒有關係就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16937.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16941.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
國安局長提到有被騷擾的一個過程其實我也擔心雖然說黨派立場是不太一樣的那不曉得飛航這麼遠這1600公里不知道會不會被中國的軍機、軍艦做騷擾我不知道你們有沒有預判過會有這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16963.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16981.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
非常謝謝委員的提問我們外交部這邊是沒有跟國防部討論到相關的議題也沒有跟國安局討論到相關的議題但是如果說從過去這兩三年中國的戰機在騷擾其他國家的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16981.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16982.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
中國的戰機走過去之後他發射的那個燃燒彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17005.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17005.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
那可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17025.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17050.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
您也是認為說目前要過去的話時機是不適合的而且對於這個捍衛這個臺北島是臺灣中華民國的族群實際上也沒有任何這個幫助就現階段而言那因為部長應該是最後一次這個在以外交部部長的身份來備詢那未來希望到這個國安會繼續這個堅守您的任務您的崗位我們會一起站在一起的謝謝部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17057.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17062.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
吳釗燮委員發言完畢休息5分鐘我們現在請吳釗燮委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請部長請部長委員好部長所有外交部辛苦的同仁大家午安剛剛有徐曉欣委員送你一個禮物是密件 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17085.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17106.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
那他要暗喻的就是密件嘛他覺得國家機密就像在7-11或是Family Mart隨手買的密件一樣可以隨便大放送可以隨便的拿來做自己的政治作秀的場域所以我今天要送你一個蜂蜜 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17108.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17124.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
是密件就該封國家機密不能有漏洞這是我們認識這麼多年我第一次送禮物給吳部長我們是本家吳家大哥跟小妹請接受我的封密好嗎是密件就該封好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17135.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17138.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
謝謝,加油繼續全力以赴,為我們熱愛的台灣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17142.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17170.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
我剛剛在隔壁的司法法制委員會我對於司法院跟法務部提出了質詢我非常難以接受中華民國的立法委員可以利用他立委的職權來號召國民黨籍的立委透過車輪戰在今天的外交委員會要逼迫外交部具狀給檢方爭取對於徐曉欣委員的泄露國家機密案來爭取不起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17171.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17199.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
那吳宗憲委員呢他身為法律人卻做出這樣的司法指導期我剛剛在司法法治委員會我想司法院的代表秘書長也好法務部的代表黃次長也好都表情凝重深深以為不可那吳宗憲召委他試圖為自己的行為來說明他說因為啊外交部不是司法機關啊所以我們去給外交部一點點壓力不叫做干預司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17200.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17214.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
部長如果以吳宗憲委員要求今天請在野黨的委員來給予你們透過質詢形成壓力請外交部要聚眾給檢察官對於此案不起訴就是給你施壓了這是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17215.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17215.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
所以,部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17238.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17246.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
即便您離開這個職位不該低頭未來承接責任的是在座的每一位有為有首的外交人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17248.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17271.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
就如同我送您的蜂蜜是密件就該封國家機密不能打折不能受制於政治的壓力好嗎我們繼續加油謝謝委員今天的主題其實我非常的有感而發我在2016年擔任立委之後我多次對吳釗燮部長提出來的其實是我對於公眾外交的倡議 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17272.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17294.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
他是台灣的外交新生路也是外交的新活路下一頁我這邊援引的是我2016年的質詢的文件現在在學外交的年輕世代大學生都會要去修公眾外交他又稱人民外交或稱公共外交他是多元外交的一環他是一個軟實力的展現透過文化透過傳播透過私部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17297.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17326.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
透過地方政府公民團體還有非政府組織對於國家形象的建構來創造一個台灣的國家品牌我想您非常認同下一頁也因為公眾外交可以成為台灣在中共無所不用其極的政治外交打壓之下去中心化去政治化我們可以讓國力有限民力無窮讓私部門代表台灣政府官方站出去而且公眾外交訴求的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17327.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17354.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
非官方我們是以贏得他國的國人的喜好為核心我們這幾年確實很有斬獲那部長可以跟我分享你擔任部長這麼多年你覺得台灣推動公眾外交有什麼樣的案例是你覺得很好可以繼續做第一個是我們的NGO走出去接受外交部的支持那以NGO的本質的話他們就是民間的團體政府不應該任何的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17356.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17356.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
臺灣的父權 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17375.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17376.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
今天我們質詢的主題是WHA |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17395.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17400.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
過去我們都是在場外抗議確實在中國打壓之下我們拿不到邀請函所以歷年的來到現場都有很多的醫療團體我這張照片秀出了還有陳時中前部長大家一起在場外讓國際在重要的WHA的開會的現場看到台灣的聲音聽見台灣的醫療成就這是before |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17417.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17426.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
但是我們導入了公眾外交after下一頁就是私謠在2018年我剛當選立委我協助一群年輕的醫師跟年輕的設計團隊用一個策展的方式在日內瓦的這個會場旁邊找了一個策展的空間以臺灣的醫療成就用一個expo展覽的方式讓世界各國來開會的各國政要 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17444.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17456.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
我認為這樣的做法非常正向非常有效未來是不是持續來協助往這方面來推進可以我想這個是非常好我們外交部應該是朝這個方向繼續走 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17457.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17470.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
我希望策展就是一個最好說政策的方式走到國外讓大家 seeing is believing其實我們的ICDF我們的國和會也在很多的地方都有這個策展我跟您回饋要分享給大家我在當市議員的時候正因為我 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17476.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17499.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
推動協助了一群十個七年級的年輕人要前進2015年的米蘭世博台灣沒有辦法以官方的名義參與世博那一年開了一個公民團體的新的形態所以一群交通大學建築系的學生來找我那時候是市議員的吳思堯說思堯姐姐我們要去米蘭世博大家一起來成就 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17499.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17504.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
所以公民力量自主參與國際社會大Mega Event的變車從米蘭的OP2GO我們收到很大的收穫下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17510.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17539.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
所以我們協助年輕世代在米蘭蓋起了一個臺灣館是年輕的建築系學生我們號召所有米蘭的外國留學生臺商一起來我們弄一個車子就是茶車在米蘭士博的會場去奉茶臺灣最好的茶還有館車樓我們還設了一個臺灣館把我們的米粉湯把我們的洋蔥炒蛋把我們的蘿蔔飯珍珠奶茶帶到米蘭去因為那一年米蘭士博的主題是食物 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17541.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17552.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
當初我邀請了蔡英文那時候是主席賴清德是台南市長我也曾經邀請是台北市長的柯文哲一起來響應獲得很好的效果而且大家一起來捐錢下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17554.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17569.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
所以我們獲得很好的國際宣傳的成果我時間有限我不再多說下一頁也在米蘭士博的經驗之下我擔任立委我搭配每一次的Mega Event我成功的跟文化部催生了在2021年的東京奧運以文化為主題我們把展演把設計力台灣文化周帶到東京去下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17577.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17597.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
這都是過去有視覺藝術有設計的展覽下一頁有表演藝術把我們的最好的舞舞蹈的創作最好的音樂的創作連瓜喜都可以跟日本藝術家劉美和來合作這是公眾外交文化力量無限強大的台灣名利下一頁最後了 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17598.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17613.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
所以善用Mega Event打造台灣的國家品牌2024年我同樣的督促了文化部要前進巴黎奧運目前也在如火如荼的進行而下一個機會就是明年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17614.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17639.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
萬博大阪我不曉得大家有沒有準備公眾外交文化外交用人民的力量用藝術文化的力量搭配Mega Event是台灣走出去很珍貴的機會我謝謝吳部長這幾年協助我支持我每當我需要為公民朋友找資源的時候外交部全力協助但未來您離開了這個崗位 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17640.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17660.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
在場每一位外交部的同仁請把公眾外交．無限強大的臺灣名利．文化利．扛在肩上．可以為臺灣打每一場．漂亮的外交勝戰．可以嗎．可以沒有問題．我們的同仁會承接這個責任．今天很依依不捨．到未來我們還是會繼續見面．大家加油謝謝謝謝我們現在休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17682.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17685.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17698.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17699.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17703.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17704.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17732.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17733.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17765.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17774.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17990.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
18007.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
我們開始繼續開會待會因為部長說不休息那等一下如果有準備便當大家就在座位上面先用接下來請郭鈺請委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
18016.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
18018.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
謝謝主席,辛苦了,有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
18026.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
18054.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
部長午安這是我第一次到這個國防外交委員會但也是最後一次在您備詢的時候跟您見面我非常的榮幸好那我想今天大家都聚焦在我們的國防或者是我們的外交的部分那當然我們也知道其實外交部在這幾年當中在您的帶領下辛苦的各位外交部的同仁們大家都做了非常非常多的一些努力讓世界看見台灣讓國際看見台灣台灣已經是一個非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
18055.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
18056.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
下一張部長知道這是什麼嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
18081.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18105.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
這是烏克蘭國旗的顏色是這是我手作的我本來今天應該要帶來的但不知道因為會到現在才質詢到您這樣子我本來想要在部長這個最後一次在這個地方然後親手送給您我自己手作的烏克蘭我相信其實不管是民間也好我們臺灣也好對於烏克蘭的援助其實真的都不分任何任何的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18106.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18129.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
沒有任何的界限然後那我們不管是從醫療方面或者是在我們的實質的一些援助的部分其實我們也提供給烏克蘭很多這方面的一些幫助那我想在這一次呢我們的援助的部分其實捷克的特使他們也特別有特別提到甚至公開的表示我們的援救的物資到了戰線的前線的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18131.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18144.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
這個效果其實甚至比起美國國際的開發署甚至歐洲的復興開發銀行等等這些大咖還要更來的實際更來的有力量那這是我們台灣其實真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18145.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18145.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18177.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18195.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
的確我們跟捷克的這個討論過程當中大家都是很有誠意的希望能夠來協助烏克蘭那因為烏克蘭目前在戰亂當中我們在那邊也沒有人能夠實際到那個所需要的這些地方去看他們缺什麼樣的東西是 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18196.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18219.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
捷克政府就非常好指定了CHTI這一個機構來作為一個中介的單位讓他們的人能夠實際到前線去提供這些必要的這些器材資源等等的所以這是一個非常具有誠意的一個合作的項目但是如果說在這個過程當中被形容為這個可能裡面有貪汙 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18220.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18230.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
李銘可能有政治利益介入或者是說提供這些不當的政治利益給一些政治人物等等的那我想我們的這些好朋友聽了一定會覺得很難過 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18231.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18252.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
這其實也阻礙了我們台灣對外的外交的關係的途徑更填了另外一種不同的變數但我們萬萬沒有想到這個變數會出現在立法院那我想特別在針對這個政大選舉政治大學他們這個選舉研究中心特別做的在去年的一個民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18254.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18269.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
其實他們在2月份也公布了這份民調他說61.7%的人其實我們的民眾都認為自己本身就是台灣人只有2.4%的人認為自己是中國人這已經創下整個所有的民調的一個記錄從1992年以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18273.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18299.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
當時認為自己是中國人的是25.5%到現在只剩下2.4%我相信我們都以愛這片土地身為台灣人為榮但我萬萬也沒有想到這2.4%有可能有大部分是在我們立法院當中因為他們前一陣子才去中國嘛那名字被唸反了其實也無所謂好那再來其實我真的要強調的既然我們手上有這份這個叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18300.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18301.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
這是一個處理的方式 沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18329.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18336.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
好,B.B.迭雷花音有113位的立法委員,為什麼唯獨只提告那一位呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18337.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18364.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
因為我們在那個公眾的媒體上面已經看到了就把整個文件秀出來那這個就是違背了我們當時要把這個文件列密的這個原因我們也認為說這個文件如果說對外來完整透露的話可能會影響到我們跟其他國家之間的這個關係影響到我們去協助烏克蘭甚至是影響到我們的整體的國家利益所以覺得說這個是不能夠再放任下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18364.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18379.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
是 所以我們是提告有據 對不對是 很明顯的違反刑法第132條除了刑法第132條以外是不是還包含國家秘密保護法的部分這個部分是不是也會加入討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18380.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18399.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
我們所看到的公文是以秘來區分所以它不是國家機密保護法裡面所定義的機密但是這個已經構成國防以外的秘密所以是違反了刑法第132條 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18400.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18414.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
我最想要說的是如果有很多其他的委員說這份其實不算秘密文件那為什麼其他人他們不拿出來從來沒有人把這個秘密文件公開過對並沒有其他的狀況發生也從來沒有過 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18416.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18416.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
國際合作與關外 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18438.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18445.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
是,那另外就是很多人在講到所謂的政府採購法在這裡我不知道我的解讀對不對這個政府採購法其實是針對台灣本身的一些財團或者法人嘛是針對台灣嘛所以其實不適用所謂的外國的團體或法人應該這麼講對不對他們是不適用這樣的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18457.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18480.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
那我剛剛有特別提到臺灣的醫療的品質其實舉世聞名這也真的是毋庸置疑啦那這次其實我們也希望說在臺灣就所謂的衛生組織或者是在加強所謂的醫療衛生的部分其實已經是全球的一個共識了所以其實包含加入所謂的跨國疾病的一個防治參與積極的參與這個國際的組織也是我們特別在將來 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18485.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18503.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
也是現在現階段在我們的外交政策當中其實是非常非常有必要性的好那剛剛其實也有委員稍早的時候他有提到他說我們這個秘密文件裡頭是不是有圖利其他的廠商然後或者是說那我這我又要鼓勵我的這個臺灣的廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18504.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18505.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
我是不曉得那個邏輯在哪裡我可不可以請部長來這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18525.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18550.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
謝謝委員我這邊簡單的說明一下就是說如果是在國內採購的話當然就是使用我們國內的那個採購相關的法規來處理那但是這個是一個其他國家的這個NGO那他們在採購的時候就必須要符合當地的那個政府的規範那因為這個是在歐洲國家就也必須要去符合歐盟相關的這些規範而且他們的規範是採高標準的 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18552.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18571.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
那所以當這個當地的non-profit organization要去執行我們的這個業務的時候那他們只要去符合他們的這個法律規範就好跟我們的採購法是毫無關聯好這樣子我就懂了好那當然最後一點點的時間就是部長在這裡非常謝謝您 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18572.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18572.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18591.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18592.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
接下來請楊瓊英委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18625.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18627.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
謝謝主席 想邀請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18635.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18663.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
部長好我想第77屆的WHA在5月27號到6月1號在瑞士日內瓦要舉行那麼我們過去在2009年開始連續8年是以觀察員的身份出席WHA是嗎這個是全國這個民眾都非常期待的但是我們要看到從2017年我們就沒有再獲邀請為什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18666.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18679.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
就是因為中國的阻撓就這個理由就這個原因世界衛生組織並改稱要台灣與會 須先取得各國會員國的同意是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18681.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
18698.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
世界衛生組織是這樣子講那我們也盡量爭取向這個有盟國家向美國日本等等的這些國家來支持我們那在過去這段時間也越來越多的這些有盟國家理念相近國家出來力挺我們透過各種不同的這個方式來挺我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
18699.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
18727.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
這是我們也非常讚許各種國家就像美國國務卿布林肯他5月初就在這個月他也發表了台灣以觀察員身份參與第77屆世界衛生大會聲明強力的來鼓勵世界衛生組織能夠恢復邀請台灣觀察員的身份參加WHA但是我們也很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
18728.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
18742.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
金箍罩在於他必須要有取得各會員國的同意是嗎這個是譚德塞說的對那所以在這樣的情況之下我們有什麼有效的策略能夠來參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
18746.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
18766.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
這邊非常坦誠的跟委員報告就是說在那個世界衛生組織裡面有一個很大的一個voting block其實就是Global South那這個是那個跟著中國走的那我們是要走一條比較長遠的道路就是需要去吸引更多的這些自由民主的這個國家來支持我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
18767.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
18794.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
在過去這段時間支持我們的這些國家是越來越多了那我們必須要長此以往繼續努力下去爭取更多的國家來協助我們所以如果我們聽到外交部這個努力我們給予這個肯定但是如果以部長您的身份認為我們還有其他的什麼方式如果這一個部分沒有辦法去解決似乎 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
18794.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
18823.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
人民的期待會落空你看人民多勇敢即使我們沒有辦法進入即使我們沒有辦法得到邀請仍舊還是很多的國人到場外去支持到場外去拿廣告單到場外去吶喊這就是我們台灣人的精神嘛那如果是這樣的話那在行政部門民眾的部分民間大家全力的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
18823.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
18831.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
那我我們行政部門還有什麼的方案如果我們只有聽到說我要長遠要怎麼樣但是實際上沒有辦法去解決這個問題那怎麼辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
18837.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
18853.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
真的非常感謝委員對我們參與世界衛生組織的關心畢竟這個是涉及到我們全國的安全那個健康的安全對嘛尤其我們又是全世界在衛生組織裡頭可以說我們的各階層是最嚴密的 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
18855.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
18877.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
對那這個有三個方式跟委員說明一下第一個就是說透過在世界衛生大會的這個期間我們去安排雙邊的這個會議讓我們國家跟其他國家的那個衛生官員關係能夠更加緊密那第二個是透過我們的專家學者甚至是官員去參加世界衛生大會世界衛生組織相關的這些會議專家會議等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
18881.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
18907.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
目前我們被接受的程度是越來越高的比例是不斷的上升第三個要徹底打破中國在國際社會上面封鎖我們關鍵就是2758號決議案我相信委員一定有看到美國的副助理國務卿跟助理國務卿針對這個事情都有強烈的發言而且美國會協助我們去爭取更多的這些理念相近國家接受美國的這個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
18908.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
18908.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
之所以本席願意給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
18919.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
18919.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
我贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
18939.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
18953.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
我非常的贊成我們的態度一向都是我們的態度我們自己的政策我們的態度就是我們歡迎那個兩岸能夠有這種和平的對話那我們這邊也不會挑釁但是涉及到我們自己立場的話我們會很穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
18955.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
18972.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
當然所以我也歡喜聽到部長你在520之前說出了這番話也就是兩岸的和平對談兩岸的和平交流我們也不挑釁這個絕對是對我們整個在外交方面是有很大的一個幫助是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
18973.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
18986.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
這是我們的態度一向都是我們的態度換句話說也認同本席所說的這是有所幫助的所以在這樣的情況之下我們朝這個方向但是我們又看到目前我們的邦交國是有幾國 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
18988.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
19003.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
我們是12個邦交國幾個啊?12個那最近發生的這個事情好像跟我們自己預估的這個這個樣態不太一樣是嗎?那個委員是提哪一個最近? |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
19004.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
19005.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
在要斷交之前你們有研判已經要斷交嗎?你沒有知道那個時間點嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
19021.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
19022.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
外界又有猜測海地跟瓜地馬拉? |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
19039.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
19065.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
有這種訊息嗎?民眾好緊張欸有嗎?跟委員報告很緊張欸其實我有最近有說過幾次包括今天早上在我們的那個委員會裡面已經有說過就是說我們有一個友邦他是長期的這個內部的這個紛擾啦那這個是我們的長期的隱憂那雖然說最近的這段時間在短中期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
19067.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
19079.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
我們對他們的協助所以邦交沒有問題本席待會再跟你討論你現在講的這個問題就是本席所提問海地跟掛地馬拉目前都正常吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
19079.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
19079.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
巴拉圭 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
19098.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
19128.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
巴拉圭是大豆跟牛肉出口最大的國家他甚至在全球大豆是排名第4牛肉是第8在這樣的情況之下隔壁的巴西跟阿根廷那會不會有所影響?不會巴拉圭跟我們關係很好520的時候貝納總統他會親自來參加大家看到他的時候你就知道說我們的關係是非常好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
19129.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
19151.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
所以請大家放心因為他的大豆跟牛肉跟我們長期這麼有幫我們買了他們很多的這些牛肉當然啊所以我告訴你他是目前全球他出口多少那就是有人有所質疑但是我們希望我們要謹慎嚴正以對那所以在這樣的情況之下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
19152.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
19166.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
你的努力大家有看到但是我們面對到我們現在剩下12個國家的邦交國那所以在這樣的情況之下你認為你要給期許新政府上任的外交大方向有什麼期免嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
19168.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
19194.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
這個部分我跟委員報告一下就是說過去這段時間我們的確在邦交國的部分是面臨很大的壓力但是在這些壓力之下我們必須要去努力開拓我們台灣的這個國際空間那我們跟美國跟歐洲很多的國家跟日本跟澳洲等等的這些國家的關係都有長足的這個進展那尤其是國際社會只要有這種高峰會的時候他們一定會提到台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
19195.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
19223.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
新的這個政府外交的系統裡頭我有跟後任的外交部長說明就是目前的這個外交的這個方向那我相信等他上任之後他也會去考慮看除了這個方向之外是不是還有其他我們可以開拓的目標所以美日歐當然對我們很重要我們現在的邦交國也維持不能忽略但最重要的是整個國際組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
19224.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
19224.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
19254.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
19263.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
謝謝 接下來請羅明財委員 羅明財 羅明財委員不在 請牛許廷委員 牛許廷 牛許廷委員不在 請范雲委員上台質詢謝謝召委 有請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
19284.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
19285.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
范委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
19300.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
19329.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
聽了早上徐巧欣委員質詢的議題我覺得有些風向被亂帶真的不是很好您今天一直有提到CHTI據我的了解第一個捷克是個民主國家我自己曾經因為開iPad會議我們到捷克知道我們部長對捷克用心跟成果非常的高而且他的民主國家內部就有一定的監督機制另一方面我剛剛也有看到新聞就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
19331.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
19353.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
捷克的烏克蘭重建特使科佩尼齊尼有特別解釋了一下CHTI是他們捷克政府指定的有經驗有公信力的NPO所以我想不知道部長是不是能夠澄清一下外界的這些謠言 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
19354.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
19380.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
我們這個案子涉及多少台商與多少台商合作目前採購的情況如何還有為什麼是CHTI這個組織非常謝謝委員也非常謝謝委員對我們外交部的期許的確我們跟捷克之間的關係是非常的深厚尤其是我個人在臺灣捷克的關係上面也下了很多的功夫 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
19380.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
19405.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
那我也很高興就是捷克政府尤其是參議院他也認可了我在台捷關係方面的這個貢獻所以他們頒給我一個勳章這個就是捷克參議長送給我勳章的這個勳表那我隨時帶著也跟我自己講說台灣捷克的關係對我們來講是非常的重要我要隨時來捍衛來強化我們台灣跟捷克的這個關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
19407.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
19424.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
CHTI這個機構是一個non-profit organization很容易上網去看到這個non-profit organization他們自己的這個宗旨那他跟捷克的很多的政府部門是有非常深厚的這種合作的關係不管是外交部、經濟部、衛福部等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
19424.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
19449.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
那最主要原因就是說這個CHTI這個nonprofit organization他在很多的這些援助方面的這個執行的成果非常的這個著重因此當我們跟捷克的政府討論到就是說希望能夠透過雙邊的合作來協助烏克蘭人協助烏克蘭人的時候他們也非常的高興就是說這個機構就是the most reputable |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
19452.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
19459.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
所以我們就跟捷克政府責定了這個機構來作為我們去援助烏克蘭的一個指定的機構那 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
19461.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
19486.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
我們也了解到就是說要對那個雙邊都需要有一個監督的這個機制也因此成立了一個雙邊政府所成立的一個監督的這個機制透過這個監督的機制來監督這個CHTI對外援助的這個成果那另外他們也必須要跟我們那個提交其中報告來說明他們所做的這些成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
19487.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
19507.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
這個是最主要的回答委員剛剛所說的另外今天早上也有一些委員提到為什麼烏克蘭提出的這些需求清單還有人提說要依據什麼我國政府採購法據我瞭解CHDI它本來就會依據捷克跟歐盟的採購法規嗎沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
19510.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
19526.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
關於烏克蘭為什麼不能請烏克蘭提出需求清單我想部長也可以說明一下至少我的了解烏克蘭臺灣中國這些其實俄國這關係是相當敏感的烏克蘭的國會議員都會表達那部長可以解釋一下嗎雖然說我們跟少數的那個烏克蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
19526.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
19530.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
中央政府還是非常關注中國可能的態度因為中國的這個可能態度會影響到俄羅斯對他們的侵略 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
19551.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
19576.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
也因此我們必須要去透過一個中介的這個國家跟我們非常友好像捷克對我們這麼友好的國家他們能夠派像CHTI這個機構深入到當地去了解他們實際的這個需求然後來做這些必要的採購那到目前為止他們已經有拍了一個短短的這個video跟各界講說這些東西就是捷克跟台灣合作所呈現的一個成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
19576.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
19590.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
那如果說要用那個採購法的話這個絕對是not applicable因為他是捷克的一個單位那他們那邊要買絕對是需要符合當地的這個法規也要符合歐盟的非常高標準的這個相關的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
19592.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
19617.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
謝謝部長的說明我想捷克是個民主國家然後他必須遵守歐盟的相關的規範採購我想這個部分的公信力我是非常的相信而且烏克蘭的狀況以我透過iPad接觸過的烏克蘭的國會議員我知道他們對所謂的台中或者中台關係是非常謹慎的所以我非常支持就是部長的做法經由第三國而且捷克跟我們相當有信任關係了 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
19618.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
19637.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
那個委員剛剛提到IPAC真的是要非常的感謝啦就是IPAC是一個非常重要的那個民主國家所成立的一個議會間的組織那在我們的努力之下7月下旬的時候這個IPAC就會來到我們台灣召開一個大會 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
19638.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
19656.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
那這個對我們台灣來講就是一個非常重要的一個機會讓我們台灣能夠呈現給這個國際組織也讓國際組織能夠實際上到台灣來展現對台灣的支持所以要謝謝委員在這方面的努力我想這個外交部也一起努力我代表台灣就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
19656.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
19681.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
因為我們的其他的就是只有時代力量跟民進黨有派代表那過去民眾黨跟國民黨一直不願意派代表不過他們現在好像有些突破所以IPAD這個部分那也謝謝大家一起的努力那我想因為IPAD我們台灣能夠有他現在好像已經有好像超過150個國會議員參與了那真的是非常重要的網絡那所以這部分真的是多方努力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
19682.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
19700.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
其實我今天也想跟部長談一下就是我從擔任無人所大使那就接受外交部的協助剛剛講的您跟吳釗委員講到婦女權益的部分我們就再透過就是我們的駐美的代表的部分那參與了CSW的一個平行NGO的論壇 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
19701.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
19728.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
當時我也對臺灣的婦女參政做了一個報告那非常多我們友邦的大使到那另外就是國會外交的部分我們也去了英國、比利時、德國還有後來的捷克還有參加IPEC哥本哈根的Democracy Summit還有印度的瑞辛娜對話我非常的榮幸有機會代表我們臺灣參加那我真的非常肯定外交部第一線工作者的努力而且我認為部長任內 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
19729.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
19731.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
指派的大使 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
19760.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
19779.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
在這方面我覺得非常的自豪就是說當我們沒有新聞局之後國家的發言人照說就應該要有外交部長來擔任那自從我接任外交部長之後有很多的國際媒體希望能夠聽到台灣的聲音每一次有人要找我一定都接受一定來安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
19780.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
19796.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
這個是我覺得我對台灣的這一個必要去做的一個任務讓全世界都能夠聽到我們台灣的聲音那到目前為止已經有328場那這個禮拜五這個禮拜五我工作的最後一天我還要接受另外一家媒體的這個訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
19797.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
19826.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
那我覺得說這個事情是不能停的因為我們臺灣的聲音要被國際社會所聽聞那外交部長或者是說我們駐外的大使對外發言代表臺灣來發言那這個是一個非常重要的工具好謝謝因為我曾經受外交部邀請寫了一篇從利益外交到價值外交的文章登在你們的刊物上我也很高興我們賴清的準中最近就說外來就是價值外交的路線那因為時間的緣故那我個人是非常肯定就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
19826.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
19849.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
吳部長任內我們外交的成果讓我們的外交雖然兩岸關係緊張可是外交關係可以發展到最高峰我認為您就是功不可沒那真的陸力而為率領整個團隊那我也想藉著時間請問您對下一任部長如果有一件事是您的遺憾希望他努力的您會說是哪一件功成您還沒有做完希望他奮力去努力的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
19851.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
19870.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
我有跟他提到說目前在進行的這些項目我相信他也非常的了解就是說很多持續性的這些東西他應該是可以持續的來進行那因為外交很多都是機密的這些項目那在這邊就不方便跟委員來說說明這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
19871.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
19894.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
了解,那我也非常肯定外交就是有為有守該守密的部分我們是說所有人不分立委公民都應該守密那該積極進取的部分不管是公共外交價值外交我覺得在吳部長任內這條路線是走出台灣的一條路那再次謝謝吳部長的辛勞那未來您在國安的議題上我們大家一起繼續加油感謝會繼續努力謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
19898.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
19902.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
好接下來請陳培宇委員上台質詢謝謝主席那有請部長謝謝部長辛苦了我實在是不忍心再請您起來發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
19921.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
19947.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
好,謝謝部長謝謝,謝謝委員好,是,部長您即將卸任了那我過去雖然只有地補一年但其實之前在很多議題上也跟部長有說有一些接觸那我想要在您卸任之前呢送一本我自己非常喜歡的繪本也呼應最近您在這個線上所有非常辛苦的議題這本書的書名就叫做《人你有權利》部長你覺得你看到這個書名你會想到什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
19948.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
19970.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
我會想到我們台灣人在國際社會上面被剝奪的那些但是那個應該是我們的權利沒錯謝謝部長我們都沒有對過但是你完全抓到我的重點這本書它的樣貌是繪本它是寫給兒童跟青少年看的可是我們要知道所有人的權利這件事情不是只有兒童跟青少年必須要學習裡面有一段話我想念給部長聽等一下再把這個書送給部長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
19977.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
20001.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
這本書的內容是從世界人權宣言裡面揭露而來的但是呢它化為一張一張的插圖跟擷取裡面重要的片段跟兒童青少年溝通也就是說兒童跟青少年不只要知道有這些權利是公民社會運作的基礎基本上孩子們也要知道他們這些權利要被尊重所以我們付出然後但是我們要得到尊重其中有一段話是這麼寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
20002.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
20024.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
每個人都有權利擁有自己的私事秘密隱私沒有正當理由沒有獲得允許不可以窺探別人的生活部長你聽完以後有什麼感覺?Privacy很重要那個機密的這些東西也很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
20024.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
20041.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
在個人的生活是這樣對嗎部長你應該有小孩嗎有如果你的小孩把他的門關起來說他需要一點個人的時間那你沒有敲敲門進去之前你是不能隨便打開門進去的嗎我相信你一定是一個開明的父親所以我們在個人的生活領域是這樣在個人的學習領域是這樣那部長您認為在公共事務的領域我們是不是也要遵守這個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
20052.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
20052.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
部長你覺得我們怎麼跟國人交代? |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
20067.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
20083.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
我覺得這個也是非常的重要啦我今天已經形容過一次就是說好像那個街道上有紅綠燈那你如果覺得說這個紅綠燈你不想遵守你闖紅綠燈的話搞不好會造成一些交通的這個事故那就不好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
20083.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
20109.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
那甚至是造成那個交通的事故之後回頭過來說這個紅綠燈不應該設置那這樣子就是不好的為了要維繫我們國家的這個外交的這個利益或者是國家的安全戰略利益等等有些該列為機密的這些東西就應該被保守機密那我想這個是我們外交部的處理的一項的這個原則那我們也知道說要對那個立法院這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
20111.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
20130.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
要負責也因此有一些項目我們就是分送給立法院但是也會提醒說這個事情是密在上面會蓋一個章是密那如果說需要我們這邊來做協助說明的那我們也會協助來做說明但是這一個規則已經有法律相關的規範在那邊那我們就應該依照法律相關的規範來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
20132.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
20151.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
好,謝謝部長的說明你剛剛這段說明我絕對會單獨把它剪下來放在我們辦公室的影片上為什麼我要這麼說過往我在帶青少年讀書會或者是在跟青少年溝通所謂身為一個公民他必須要開始學習所謂社會溝通我們常常跟孩子們提到一個很重要的事情就是部長您剛剛說的紅綠燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
20152.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
20177.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
孩子們都會問我為什麼要遵守框架為什麼要遵守法律為什麼不能做所有我想做的事情我想做就是我想做這是我的個人自由但是在法國的哲學系統裡面告訴很多青少年在他們的兒童時期就開始告訴他們所謂的自由是必須在保障每個人的自由情況下在有框架底下每個人才得以自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
20177.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
20179.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
所以非常謝謝部長您剛那個深入淺出的說法因為確實我也跟我們家小孩討論到這件事情那我們接下來問下面一個問題來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
20208.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
20226.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
臺灣遭中國惡意打壓又沒有受邀參加WHA國台辦瞎扯說這是民進黨造成的我想部長你跟我不一樣你應該沒有入黨行政中立對不對我有入黨但是在進入到外交部門之後我跟同仁的約束就是說我會保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
20227.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
20228.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
國民黨總召傅昆齊到中國北京市政與政協主席見面 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
20242.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
20264.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
你覺得他有沒有跟人家談到WHA的事情或者是他有沒有談到跟任何外交、國防可能有異議的事情你有沒有在蒐集相關的訊息我沒有相關的這些資訊我個人真的非常好奇所以您在回應這個國台辦說台灣沒有辦法參加WHA是民進黨所造成的部長您說這是荒謬的言論你要不要多說一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
20265.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
20293.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
我想我們台灣沒有辦法參加世界衛生組織相關的這些向世界衛生大會的這個活動只有一個原因就是因為中國阻撓那尤其是中國透過扭曲聯合國大會第2758號決議案的方式來說明我們台灣屬於中國所以如果說要參與的話要透過中國那因為我們台灣不接受那個台灣是中國的一部分所以沒有辦法參加所以他的這種說法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
20294.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
20311.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
無法被接受的那尤其是他有時候還會對外面來說謊說他已經在照顧我們台灣人的健康福利的這些權利那這個是剛好是相反的他透過打壓那個台灣參與世界衛生大會或者是世界衛生組織活動的這些作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
20313.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
20315.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
我可不可以解讀成這是一種他們對我們的恐嚇跟威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
20338.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
20356.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
我再念其中一頁給部長聽這本書我一定會送給部長他說每個人都有權利安全的生活沒有人可以威脅恐嚇別人如果沒有正當理由不可以剝奪他人的自由部長你覺得他們現在有正當理由嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
20357.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
20373.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
他們沒有正當理由就是政治就是政治他們就是不希望台灣能夠被國際社會所接納那委員剛剛念的那一段其實對我來講這個感觸非常的深就是2003年的時候我們台灣遭逢SARS |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
20374.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
20391.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
那我們台灣的這個衛福部向世界衛生組織去申請協助那到最後一定要等到我們的和平醫院大爆發的時候世界衛生組織才會派四個專家到我們台灣來那但是這個四個專家到我們台灣來還奉世界衛生組織秘書處的這個要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
20394.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
20423.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
不能夠跟我們台灣的這個衛生官員有任何的見面接觸或者是討論那可是中國的這種大使外交官卻在國際社會上面去宣稱說他們在照顧台灣人民的這個安全那我對國際媒體當時對國際媒體的反應就是說It's a shameless lie那到目前為止我的態度都是一致的中國沒有在照顧我們中國只有在阻撓我們那我再說一個例子讓大家那個回想一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
20429.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
20444.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
1998年的時候我們台灣也遭逢了那個長病毒的大流行那時候我小朋友非常的小學校幼稚園很多都關起來了游泳池不開了那要出去的話那個小朋友是不適合帶出去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
20444.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
20470.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
那小朋友被隨時要教導說要一直要洗手一直要洗手那可是像我上班回家看到我小朋友還好好的時候我那時候就會非常的感動就是說我的小朋友是沒有受到影響的可是去想像有很多受到影響的這些小朋友就是因為世界衛生組織在中國的阻擾之下沒有接受我們台灣所提出的這個協助的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
20471.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
20471.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
20490.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
20490.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
謝謝主席、謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
20523.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
20527.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
謝謝 接下來請王振旭委員上台質詢謝謝主席還是麻煩吳部長請部長抱歉失禮失禮 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
20551.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
20572.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
委員 這是我的責任來這邊接受備詢部長你好我來自異界所以一直都在衛防委員會這是第一次到這個外交跟衛防委員會來請教事情答詢就是包括今天的主題就是怎麼樣讓國際的社會可以支持台灣來參與WHA |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
20575.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
20599.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
我剛才說到SARS、腸病毒我真的都感同身受因為我們在醫院看到的就是這麼辛苦尤其SARS那段時間我常跟體系服務我們的同仁很勇敢地去救治我們這些病人可是他也難逆的後來他幾乎肺衰竭 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
20600.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
20616.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
經過二十多年來的復健,你現在慢慢的比較好所以參與國際社會,尤其是健康的部分尤其是這種疾病,突發性疾病對於台灣的衝擊真的非常非常的大很可惜,我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
20616.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
20639.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
如果持續這樣的被排擠應該是社會的損失國際的損失同時也希望我們未來能夠在部長往後持續下一任的部長努力之下能夠把這樣的狀況可以有效的去扭轉那真的是這個中國的打壓對我們來講真的是要嚴厲譴責這起來其實很不得力 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
20641.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
20664.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
兩千三百萬人也是很重要的人口結構而且我們有能力可以去透過我們去協助社會、協助世界他們也需要我們,我們也互相能夠透過大家去把該有的事情做好其實不知道是什麼原因,到底能不能保證、能不能講、說明一下到底我們是受了什麼危困 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
20665.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
20688.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
我想中國就是對台灣有這個政治的企圖來完成他們對外擴張的這個野心所以他們對台灣就是宣稱說台灣是屬於中華人民共和國的那為了要達成他們這個目標他們要對台灣實施軍事威脅實施經濟脅迫甚至是打壓台灣的這個國際空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
20690.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
20707.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
尤其是外交外交就是一個主權的展現主權的這個象徵所以這個就是一個中國打壓的一個重災區那但是無論是中國怎樣打壓我們的國人我們的政府尤其是我們的外交部門是沒有任何洩氣的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
20708.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
20729.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
沒有任何不繼續努力去爭取的這個原因那所以在過去這段時間即使中國對我們的這個外交壓力是越來越大但是也在我們同仁的這個積極的努力之下我們跟美國日本澳洲加拿大英國等等的這些國家尤其是中東歐國家的這個關係是有長足的進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
20730.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
20745.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
尤其是中東歐國家,我經常在晚談就是說,我們台灣的外交部長如果說沒有邦交國的話是很難去的那即使能夠去的話大概也沒有辦法公開但是過去這幾年你看我可以去幾個國家在東歐的國家,可以去那裡公開訪問、公開演講 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
20751.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
20773.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
那這個就是我們打開的一條新路那我想這一條新路是留給未來那個更多的這些努力的這種基礎那我相信接下來我們台灣在國際社會上面被接受的這種程度是會越來越高我們台灣能夠呈現給國際社會的這個程度也會越來越高那真的很感謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
20774.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
20796.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
致謝部長的拍面包括我們所有外交部的所有同仁真的是很用心很拍面來打開我們整個對跟外界之間的聯繫那其實衛福部薛部長也非常的努力我們都一起努力像薛部長最近就在國際媒體投書就是說台灣就是需要讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
20798.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
20816.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
社會讓全球都看得到我們到底在想要幫助全球尤其是在這些相關有重大事情發生的時候我們去接軌全球所以他也因應下一波的大流行台灣真的不能缺席 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
20818.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
20843.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
臺灣缺席對世界真的是一個損失所以我想我們應該要繼續朝這個地方來努力那也很謝謝外交部持續的來爭取國際的支持不管是參與這個WHA．或者是其他友好相關國家在做這部分的努力的同時能夠持續讓臺灣貢獻我們的力量這次WHA他們有提出第14期的工作計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
20845.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
20860.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
這個工作計畫我們可能可以下面看得到的就是它有六大的工作目標包括這個因應氣候變遷帶來對健康的威脅還有怎麼去解決一些健康的因素還有推動初級健康照護等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
20860.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
20875.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
最後一項就是有關於即時偵測並有效因應健康衛生緊急事件這就是我們台灣最能夠有機會去幫助全球或幫助我們自己的地方這個計畫其實跟我們目前賴總統當選人所提出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
20882.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
20894.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
打造健康台灣的政策是一致的這個其實就是很好的銜接所以我這次有機會參與這個WHA的這個整個活動我們就希望把這樣的理念一起帶進來能夠讓社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
20897.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
20897.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
20923.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
20949.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
我覺得我們過去這段時間在全球衛生上面的這個貢獻應該是社會大家應該是國際社會都看到了所以國際社會在看待我們的那個公衛的這個處理他們都把我們當成模範生所以這個是我們感到非常驕傲的項目那我們也跟衛福部也不斷的在合作希望能夠跟其他的國家有更多的這些衛生的這個合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
20950.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
20977.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
在過去這6年之間我擔任外交部長跟衛福部之間的這種關係是非常的緊密那我們是負責去做連續去做溝通當作一個平台那衛福部這邊不管是機關署或者是其他的這個單位他們就是專業那專業跟平台之間做一個好的結合的話是可以讓我們台灣的這個公衛的能力呈現於國際社會被當作是一個良善力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
20978.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
20996.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
謝謝所以打造健康台灣這個政策其實跟WHA是完全一致的所以我們很期待透過包括外交部還有整體我們國民的努力希望讓這個成果未來是被世界看得到而且是肯定的好謝謝接下來請林月琴委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
21014.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
21016.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
有請我們的吳部長請部長委員你好部長好部長這是你以外交部長的身份來接受質詢的最後一週而且可能好像也是最後一個非常榮幸 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
21036.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
21037.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
今天事實上想跟部長討論兩個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
21059.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
21088.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
我自己來自耳邵以前一直在做社會福利當然下一代一直是我們關心的那他們的健康更是我們關心的所以部長想問你就是說目前我們是否有收到國際衛生組織邀請以及在爭取邀請前我們的行政部門跟立法部門做了哪些努力那目前沒有收到的話那它最大的問題是什麼是政治干預還是有其他因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
21089.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
21109.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
我們還沒有收到那個邀請函那這個阻撓我們收到邀請函的來源就是一個就是中國政府在我們還沒有收到邀請函之前我們行政部門還是盡我們的全力來努力我們不到最後一刻是不會有任何這種放棄的這個念頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
21111.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
21123.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
到目前為止我們在做的這些方向比如說在安排我們的這個邦交國能夠替我們提案替我們發言或者是說這些非邦交國能夠幫我們連署能夠幫我們聯合競洽或者是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
21128.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
21149.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
在大會裡面幫我們發言那這些都是我們正在安排的那甚至是我們的衛福部長新任的衛福部長到那個日內瓦去的時候也能夠跟其他國家的重要的官員展開雙邊的這個會談能夠強化我們台灣跟其他國家的那個衛生部門的這些合作那我們台灣的立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
21150.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
21177.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
也有四島團前往日內瓦那我們也會協助我們的這個立法委員在那邊展現我們的聲音所以這個是我們持續努力的這個一個過程那我知道我們參與世界衛生組織這是一個不容易的一個過程但是我們必須要長此以往持續的努力能夠讓更多的國家更多的機構更多的人民能夠來支持我們台灣參與世界衛生組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
21178.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
21203.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
我相信外交部做了很多那真的也要讓我們的青少年知道因為他們有一個很大的擔憂就是說我們一直受到中國的打壓尤其事實上是在82年出生之後的年輕人事實上都非常有國家意識他們覺得我們就是一個國家那可是卻讓另外一個國家來打壓我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
21204.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
21224.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
像從前幾年COVID-19的這樣的疫情爆發之後像這樣的一個全球性的是沒有任何一個人任何一個國家可以置身事外我國甚至還是在處理的在疫情爆發最早發現的國家甚至後來還積極的去協助其他國家做預防措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
21225.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
21251.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
也讓其他國家可以效法來減緩他們的疫情的一個狀況我們都願意跟國際伸出援手來可最後今年還是沒有收到WHA的會議邀請如果是如部長所言中國這麼樣強力的施壓第一個我覺得應該讓年輕的更多人知道這件事情還有我們目前還有什麼樣一個作為可以透過這多元方式參與這些世界性的一個組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
21253.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
21278.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
多元的方式當然是有就是吸引更多的國家不管他們是國會議員或者是行政部門能夠公開來聲援我們尤其是國會議員的部分從波羅的海一直到中歐一直到西歐甚至是中南美洲的這些國會議員印太地區的這些國會議員支持我們的人是越來越多了另外一個就是說政府部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
21280.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
21303.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
我們也爭取到更多的這些國家來支持我們那一個很重要的關鍵就是聯合國第2758號決議案被中國誤用被中國這種錯誤的引述造成世界衛生組織或者是聯合國等等的以為說我們台灣是屬於中華人民共和國導致我們沒有辦法去參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
21304.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
21321.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
那為了解決這件事情我們是去跟美國等等的這些國家有做過很深入的這個討論那我想委員也有看到就是說上個禮拜美國的一些資深官員也三度的出來澄清就是聯合國第2758號決議案跟中國的一個中國原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
21322.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
21322.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
通過這些說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
21338.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
21353.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
那也透過美國的朋友去跟更多的這些國家說明那這個是要剷除中國在國際社會上面對我們所施加的這個法律戰的一個必要的步驟那我們很高興就是我們跟美國的合作已經開始了這個步驟 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
21355.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
21356.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
有關這陣子許多委員都在討論的有關的洩密議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
21373.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
21395.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
目前我有針對此議題提出有關公益接避者法案那也就是明天要審查的就是希望避免惡意爆料跟接避混為一談因此我也修法將有關涉及到重大國家機密內容應該有一定的程序而不是隨便就可以脫口而出來跟媒體講應該要有內部的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
21397.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
21398.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
有關機密文件是否涉及到弊案目前外交部的想法如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
21415.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
21443.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
我們那個外交部的這些相關的這些文件即使是獵密那我們也知道說接受立法院的監督非常的重要因為這個是確保go through checks and balances要確保那個我們的那個政府部門的那個這種credibility或是integrity那所以這種方式的話就是要確保立法部門能夠監督到我們行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
21444.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
21464.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
但是我們會劣密的這個理由是因為我們不希望公開來的話影響到我們台灣的這個外交的利益或者是國家的利益所以這些既有的這個規則如果說大家都覺得沒有問題的時候我們應該就是依照既有的規則就好像我剛剛在上一位的那個委員諮詢的時候就好像說我們路上有紅綠燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
21465.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
21490.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
這個紅綠燈規範了我們的行走的這種方式也避免了這種車禍或者是事故的發生那如果是這樣子大家都沒有問題的話那我們就繼續依照這個方式來走所以不能隨便亂搶紅燈所以立法院的確作為最高民意的有監督的責任但我覺得無論是外交國防跟涉及到國家重大機密的時候我們都應該要謹慎處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
21492.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
21520.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
所以未來部長到國安會服務我也希望能發揮所長來輔助我們的總統副總統完成更高的任務謝謝謝謝委員我會持續的努力真的是非常謝謝委員今天非常的榮幸能夠最後一次到立法院來接受備詢那在這邊要謝謝各位委員的指教也要謝謝主席今天再度邀請我到立法院來能夠在離開外交部之前還有一次接受那個立法委員詢問的這個時間謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
21521.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
21545.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
我也謝謝部長 謝謝接下來請鄭正田委員、鄭正田、鄭正田委員不在請賴慧媛委員、賴慧媛委員不在請傅坤祺、傅坤祺委員不在請鄭天才、鄭天才、鄭天才委員不在請賴瑞龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
21546.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
21551.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
賴瑞龍委員不在﹖請林思敏委員不在﹖請吳立華委員不在﹖請張家俊委員不在﹖請陳俊宇委員不在﹖請林黛華委員不在﹖請賴世保委員不在﹖請邱毅穎委員不在﹖請吳秉瑞委員不在﹖請郭國文委員不在﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
21573.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
21583.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
郭國文 郭國文委員不在 請鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在 請陳寅陳寅 陳寅委員不在 請羅廷緯 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
21587.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
21595.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
羅廷維委員不在﹖請葉元芝委員不在﹖請林淑芬委員不在﹖請蔡易瑜委員不在﹖請沈發慧委員不在﹖請劉建國委員不在﹖請洪孟凱委員不在﹖請張鴻祿委員不在﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
21611.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
21637.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
今天已登記質詢委員．除不在場外．均已發言完畢．報告及詢答結束．本日會議有牛許廷委員．翁曉琳委員．葉元之委員．張雅玲委員．林思敏委員．提出書面質詢．請列入記錄並刊登公報．請相關機關以書面與兩週內答覆．委員口頭質詢未及答覆的部分．或要求補充資料者疫情相關單位． |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
21638.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
21648.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
以書面與兩週內提供委員令約定期限則從其所定本期剛剛在質詢的時候有請外交部提供的相關的資料也請送給辦公委員會那 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
21653.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
21663.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
謝謝部長今天特別來參與今天的這個委員會不過剛剛一直有提到那個紅綠燈的事情紅綠燈是很重要的不過紅綠燈也有受到的事改修例也要修例所以我們在這裡大家共同 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
21668.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
21669.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
謝謝 再次謝謝大家今天會議到此結束 散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
21697.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
21699.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
法定人數不足 |