| IVOD_ID |
159116 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159116 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-13T11:11:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-13T11:30:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:12 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b972b8f6f00770f0b576e906546782efc7dc3b86466824cff1cdb1affc83ff41445c6f97c71b35d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
翁曉玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:11:14 - 11:30:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好 有請次長麻煩次長也請那個中署長再請洪司長還有劉司長法律事務司的劉司長還有法治司的洪司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
43.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
70.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員好是 次長好 還有司長署長們好我在這邊呢 首先我想要請教各位大家知道陸委會最近有下令要求所有的公教人員要簽名拒絕有沒有這個大陸的身份證跟居住證請問次長您簽了嗎各位報告我簽了您簽了 對好 然後署長呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
73.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
90.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
署長有沒有簽名拒絕?有沒有簽了那個拒絕書?哦,看起來署長可能還沒有簽。來,市長。簽了。簽了。好,人家都簽了。那麼我想請問一下,如果不簽的話,會被處罰嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
93.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
120.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
沒有沒有這樣子說明沒有說因為不簽會被處罰是不是請次長可以再重複再大聲一點告訴我們如果不簽的話會被處罰嗎他那個當事人委會先我們但我們他沒有說不簽會被處罰處罰他必須要有法源的依據啊處罰要有法源的依據那剛剛因為次長有特別有講到法律保留原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
122.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
140.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
可以跟我們民眾解釋一下跟我們大家解釋一下什麼叫法律保留原則法律保留就是涉及到這一個人民的權益的部分要透過國家立法機關的立法繼續保留那法律保留分為絕對保留跟相對保留如果絕對保留涉及到人身自由的部分他就絕對一定要立法院授權的法律才能規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
167.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那相對的法律保留它就是說它不是涉及到人身自由但是有可能會涉及到人民的權益的那基本上它原則上是需要有一個法律或者法律授權的命令來做相關的規範是的好 非常謝謝次長的說明那簡單來說如果說今天行政機關要處罰人民的話是不是應該要在法律裡面明確規定構成要件要清楚違反了構成要件才可以處罰嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
168.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
196.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
在我們行政法法裡面有這樣的規定對不對對行政法法就這個有特別的規範是好那麼現在呢在兩岸人民關係條例裡面的第九條第九之一條第九之一條裡面只有禁止台灣地區的人民不可以有大陸地區的戶籍涉戶籍還有領友護照那麼所以今天如果說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
198.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
225.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
陸委會因為說某個台灣人民他在大陸地區有居住證所以就予以處罰這樣合理嗎各位報告這涉及到兩岸關係條例它並不是本部主管的法規啦所以我們在法律解釋上面嘛我剛剛跟你講了這個法律規定嘛所以必須要明確化嘛對不對行政法法上的確是規範要處罰但必須要法律免定嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
226.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
254.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
至於這個兩岸關係條例它特別的規範我們必須要尊重主管機關因為我們畢竟北澳不必定不是主管機關啦市長你客氣了啦就法律解釋的部分我相信您絕對會解釋的比那個陸委會要好要更專業更權威我現在要談的就是其實在這裡就要清楚的告訴軍公教還有現在也擴大到財團法人等等的相關的職員工其實不簽 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
257.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
276.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個陸委會所要求的有沒有具有大陸的身份證居住證等等的這些表單其實是不違法而且也不能被處罰與法無拒更何況陸委會是搞不清楚嗎教師是公務員嗎請問市長您知道教師是不是公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
282.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
306.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
公務員他有廣義跟狹義的定義嘛那我不曉得他的主管是所以他不屬於公務員法裡面所講的公務員我們現在很清楚知道除了兼任行政主管的教授才可以被視為是公務員否則的話基本上一般的教師他不是屬於公務員所以我要談就是陸委會我都不知道我真的下次我認為說陸委會的這個法規會他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
310.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
336.495 |
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應該可能要考慮是不是要刪他們的預算因為沒有專業然後呢又這個要求人事總處要求這個教育部發這種違法濫權然後要求人民要自行表態我對國家效忠的這種簽名拒絕單我認為真是荒謬至極 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
340.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
351.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這條的規範它的規範主體是什麼可不可以裁罰怎麼裁罰大委員可能要問陸委會我想說這邊可能要請法務部來寫一個專案報告啦針對就是到底陸委會有沒有這個權利可以處罰有沒有他的這樣子如果說處罰的話有沒有違反行政法法這應該也是屬於法務部可以提供的諮詢意見我想這個問題我就先問到這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
366.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
378.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那接下來呢我想要請教這個次長的就是法務部的今年的預算基本上剛剛其實副總長已經有問過了今年預算是有增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
379.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
401.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
增加了多少億3減後的比較大概多了12億所以還是有多12億但是12億基本上都是用在人事費用因為我們今年增加了150、60位的員額所以它基本上就是用在人事費用還有相關既有的員額的執行的調整所以都是人事費的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
402.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
426.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
但是其實整個公務機關本來就是要遵截經費要在合理的經費範圍運用裡面去好好的去執行業務基本上其實這次的總預算每個部會機關幾乎都有增加而且增加幅度還挺高的我想就這個部分來說的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
427.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
443.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
如果未來真的有自然難行的地方需要最佳預算還是要提早解凍我想法務部這邊呢可以再向我們司法委員會來報告好那接下來我想請教這個次長來我們看一下這個照片您看從這個照片裡面你看到了什麼委員是指拿方面對啊您看到了什麼嗎看到幾位名人政治人物在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
454.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
475.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
委員是要講這個就是說戒護就醫的問題嗎?保外就醫還有呢?還是就是他的戒護?我們現在來看一下這個看看吧其實我們作為法律人看到這張照片第一個直覺就是看到了犯罪嫌疑人柯文哲 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
478.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
488.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
然後另外一個就是保外就醫的貪污犯陳水扁請問這次矯正署派了多少的警力去戒護就醫 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
492.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
512.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
去戒護 戒護奔商嗎對 戒護奔商北索有八名警力 但是也有政風人員所以總共有多少位總共十位總共十位去戒護柯文哲怕他在上禮當中跑掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
513.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
530.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
八位是介護 兩位是事先到告別式的會場先做一些相關流程為了慎重起見 總共十位那請問陳水扁他到現在還是保外就醫你們都不擔心他跑掉嗎他這次參加柯文哲父親的告別式有事先提出核准嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
542.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
552.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他有事先跟中間報告每一次都只是報告來我們看一下我們法條怎麼規定法條怎麼規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
556.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
578.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為中間 要監獄核准對不對是 中間也有跟他就是說是不是可以請阿扁提早去做年香致意你們都是對陳水扁非常的禮遇客氣他去詢問你可不可以提前告訴我你要參加什麼活動請問您知道他有去參加賀龍夜夜秀嗎他應該是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
586.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
614.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
賀瓏找他賀瓏找他所以角色署也同意了 台中監獄也同意了賀瓏是到他家拜訪的到他家拜訪所以錄了這個節目沒有關係我想請問的就是說陳水扁他參加告別式是與他的醫療有助於他的醫療嗎是他日常生活所需嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
616.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
633.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們原則上都是尊重醫主啊 那中間還有報告我跟您說 只要我當立法委員的一天我只要看到陳水扁出現在公開媒體 我一定會問這個問題請問如果醫主造假醫生會違反 會觸犯什麼樣的刑事責任 會有什麼樣的刑事責任造假是 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
643.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
653.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如果是造假應該是偽造文書之類的這因為但是我們尊重醫師有專業的判斷尊重醫師啦所以您就認為說所有的醫生都不可能會有造假是嗎有沒有可能台中監獄基本上也是包庇 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
667.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
673.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
如果今天一個連獄長他包庇署長您包庇可能會觸犯什麼樣的刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
676.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
698.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我想我們心中有一把尺 我們不會去做這些事情是 我想告訴您相關的刑法的法律追溯權的時效是很長的除非你們有信心 民進黨政府一直執政超過20年你們不會有責任否則我告訴您 你們現在的所作所為 大家都在記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
699.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
711.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
跟委員報告台中監獄一定是依據保外遇制的審核基準去按照規定來辦理的好來接下來我再來講另外一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
713.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
719.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
其實從這次看其實這個有關於在偵查期間當中的這個羈押期間是不是有過長的問題不僅是學界也在討論其實實務界很多都在討論這個議題那當然這次柯文哲的事件又讓大家重新的去檢視到底我們現在刑事訴訟法裡面的規定偵查當中的羈押期間讓檢察官有 司法檢察有 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
744.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
766.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
簡單來說可以最長有四個月的羈押期間有沒有過長請問法務部有去曾經有做過相關的檢討嗎各位報告那歷次有關羈押的修法羈押期間這一定會有做相關的法治上的研究這是絕對會有的是我們看看韓國看看日本人家的一次的羈押時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
769.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
782.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
初次的大概就10天被藥的時候延長也是10天最長最長也是25天韓國也是就是這個初次是10天然後延長的話是不可以超過10天 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
785.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
803.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
相對起來我們台灣的偵查當中的羈押可以這個押犯人的押犯罪嫌疑人的時間是非常長的這已經是侵害了犯罪嫌疑人的人權我們如果從人權保障的角度來講的話我們其實台灣在這方面是落伍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
805.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
830.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我相信大家都應該很清楚知道其實羈押制度常常會成為偵查機關取得自白而惡用的手段理論上就是在案件未確定之前應該要尊重要有這個要無罪推定而且要更重視犯罪嫌疑人的人身自由保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
832.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
845.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那我希望保護部應該要好好的去檢討我們現在的相關偵查當中的羈押規定是不是合理跟世界的潮流跟其他國家相比較來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
847.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
875.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們是不是規範的過度有違反不當比例有違背這個比例原則各位報告那羈押期間的長短那涉及到不同的偵查制度不可一概而論那事實上我們相關的羈押我們歷次很多個司法官司事致都有做一些解釋其實這個重點不應該羈押長短也是個原因另外一個應該是著重於羈押要件的嚴格審查還有羈押的整個審核當中你要給他月卷相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
877.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
891.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個程序上的保障事實上後來大法官解釋之後我們相關修法也都朝這個方向去保障申請羈押的流程好我想這個部分的話就是整體一併檢討那最後我很快的來講有關於這個律師職前訓練的事情我們直接跳到相關的法律我要談的是有關於律師職前訓練到底誰才是應該要主要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
903.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
928.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
依照我們這個現行的律師法裡面的規定律師值錢訓練是由全國律師聯合會辦理當時在2019年修法的時候李友講得非常清楚為了落實律師的自律自治的精神民地律師值錢訓練是由全國律師聯合會自行辦理什麼叫自行辦理錢該誰出 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
933.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
960.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
法務部出嗎各位報告這一條109條109年修法的時候因為這個歷史法做了非常大幅度的變動所以當時這一條本身在我們歷史法裡面特別規範它的施行日期另外由行政院來定之所以這條本身到目前為止它只要另外要行政第一個時間它才會生效所以你們到目前為止都沒有定施行期間沒有 我們已經報行政院請行政院核定它的時間是 你們什麼時候報的這是109年 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
964.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
986.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
修正的 到現在為止這個條文都還沒有正式施行就是說這一條要由全聯會來辦理這件事情立法當時就有意的要交由行政院來另行公告他的施行期間所以請問次長現在是行政院還沒有公告嗎我們現在已經請行政院 希望行政院能夠趕快來公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
987.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1012.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以從109年到現在你們都沒有提要請行政院進速公告跟我們報告109年歷史法做了非常非常大幅度的修正我們必須要給歷史界我先講這一條就講這一條我們當時是要讓歷史界有一些時間去新法的適用要不然它的整個變革太大了所以當時是有意的把這個事情往後延好所以六年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1013.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1030.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
都還沒有辦法這個全律會都還沒有辦法自行辦理所以呢現在律師職權訓練的這筆費用一直都是由法務部出由我們全民的納稅錢來付是嗎目前在公告之前是的是的所以每年300多萬6年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1034.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1058.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
1800多萬我們一直幫全綠會難怪全綠會的那些理事長啦 理監事這麼支持民進黨都是賴清德後援會的律師成員我要講這真的是非常非常不負責任的一個做法謝謝今天次長告訴我原來這個條文到現在都還沒有施行還沒有正式施行 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1061.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1086.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以我們這次三預算坦白說我當時我就覺得很奇怪為什麼是由法務部去編列這筆預算如果說職前訓練律師職前訓練是由法務部主辦的話他的委辦他不見得要委託給權律會啊他也可以委託給大專院校也可以委託給法官學院司法官訓練所為什麼一定要委託給權律會 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1088.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1114.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
原來你們現在到目前為止一直都還在幫他們付這筆錢這個當時在109人立法的時候他就是這個立法目的就是這樣子定這一條對 立法目的不就是要全立法會自己辦理嗎然後自己負責經費嘛 對不對只是說你們現在讓他六年都沒有正式的啟用這個條文所以在六年期間的所有經費都還是法務部要編列公務預算來支應 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1116.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1140.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個是法條的設計另外他律師他本身其實有公益涉財在野法朝的地位法務部是律師的主管機關從一個主管機關的角度去看這個當時立法有意這麼定那我們就尊重立法者的決定是非常謝謝今天次長告訴我這些我終於知道為什麼這麼多的律師是這麼支持民進黨政府這麼支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1142.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1146.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
賴清德都是賴清德後援會的成員也難怪人家說律師的這個綠應該改成綠色的綠以上謝謝 |