| IVOD_ID |
15911 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15911 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-15T08:30:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-15T12:43:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:12:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db43dc8870a7b167e20f9a65472a0a5ac33be8d109af184be41e1754b31945b06b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
一、本院委員張嘉郡等19人擬具「農村再生條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
【5月15日及16日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:46 - 12:43:00 |
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文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
220.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
220.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
事由：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會第13條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
282.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
283.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第二條及第十五條條文修正草案：事由：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
368.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
386.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
420.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
422.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
邱議瑩等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第二條及第十五條條文修正草案 案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
860.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
861.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
969.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
970.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具、「農村再生條例第二條及第十五條條文修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1041.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1069.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1139.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1140.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1180.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1181.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1628.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1629.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1763.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1765.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
報告全體會出席委員12人以足法定人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1771.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1797.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好我們現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄請宣讀立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年5月8日星期三星期三九十一分至十二十八分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員陳廷坡委員等14人列席委員陳培育委員等16人列席人員農業部代理部長陳俊記 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1799.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1824.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
公平會副主委陳志明及相關人員主計總處專委黃子涵﹑法務部參事林豐文﹑主席邱昭吉委員易營﹑報告事項宣讀上次會議意思錄決定確定討論事項一、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關農業部及所屬主管預算凍結案等三案。一、農業部涵為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢証該部農業管理預算凍結500萬元書面報告案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1829.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1847.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
討論事項合併尋答委員陳冠廷說明提案要旨,農業部代理部長陳俊記報告後,委員陳廷飛等16人提出質詢,均由農業部陳代理部長紀湘蔚與及其答覆,登記發言委員處部在場走外區域經已發言完畢,尋答結束,委員黃珊珊、邱議員及 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1847.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1853.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
邱議瑩等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1863.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1885.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
農業部農業發展預算凍結五百萬元書面報告案決議第一案至第三案均同意動之擬具報告提報院會二、審查本院委員陳冠廷等30人擬具《農產品市場交易法》第35條條文修正草案案決議一、第35條條文保留送院會處理二、本案審查完具擬具審查報告提報院會討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1887.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1893.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
需交由黨團協商並推請邱召集委員議員院會討論時做補充說明。散會宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1910.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1911.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
修正草案案。」宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1934.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1961.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好,那麼我們本日議程所討論事項農村再生條例第二條第七條以及第十五條及修正草案我們總共共計有三個版本現在依照院會所交付的順序請提案委員來做提案說明第一位我們請張嘉俊委員張嘉俊委員張嘉俊委員不在現場我們請邱議瑩委員請做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1963.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1979.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你不要說明齁,那你來幫我代主席一下,我來說明一下,謝謝。好,我們今天請楊瓊瓔召委來做提案說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1982.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1987.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人我們有鑒於環境批辯跟極端氣候的這個新型影響導致臺灣農村面臨了永續發展的一個挑戰而且農村再生基金實施到目前為止也即將用盡那會影響到農村再生整個發展性的一個計畫那我們為了要推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2008.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2012.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
農村更新社區公約以及農村韌性發展等政策。」所以我們提出了農村再生條例第七條以及第十五條條文修正草案以接軌國土計畫新治理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2025.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2049.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
制度全面實施來加速推動農村的轉型與發展,強化了極端氣候的農村調適能力。」那也敬請各位同仁以及行政部門大家來支持因為我們知道在政府對於農村發展的地區過去的政治核心都是在於農業、農地以及農民的照顧這三個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2052.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2058.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
發展在政策上經常會被忽略,以致於農村鄉發展的失衡問題越來越嚴峻,轉型發展困難。我們看到,從民國108年,我們台灣永續發展目標演繹, |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2068.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2093.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
到109年本定的國土計劃法再將114年要全面的來落實實施雖然目前的國土計劃法似乎還會再延但是我們一定要未雨綢繆這個是非常重要有鑒於農業部他必須要負擔起國土功能分區那農業發展地區的永續發展的這個治理權延逸 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2096.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2123.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
執行農業地區永續發展的規劃跟政策,其中農事地區也就是臺灣最主要的農村地區範圍迫切需要建構一個農村整體性的永續發展規劃跟政策的制度來強化因應全球氣候暖化以及環境變遷的制度適應的能力。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2124.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2135.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
才能夠接軌未來所謂的國土計畫新國土治理制度的一個變革所以我們非常的希望能夠實際行動來支持這個我們的農民真正的由政策性整體性的這個規劃也敬請各位同仁以及行政部門大家來支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2157.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2160.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
謝謝,那我們提案說明再請張嘉俊委員。謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2169.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2185.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們都知道,農村在過去數十年來逐漸勢微,那現在年輕人寧願到都市打工,送FoodPanda、UberEat也不願意留在農村務農。但是政府明年又要推動新的國土計畫法,讓農村再也難以變更。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2191.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2194.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
2011年農村再生條例執行之後那其實當初提案的時候是1200億當時本席包括我們的楊瓊瓔主席也是大力的支持要從1200億增加到1500億那沒想到經過了這麼多年我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2209.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2216.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
又來到了就是已經花完了這筆錢也希望說讓農村能夠真正翻轉命運讓農村再生計畫能夠繼續推動因為呢農村再生計畫也是未來能夠順利推動國土計畫法的一環那農再條例通過之後全國的各縣市致力於帶動農業產業發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2235.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2259.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
包括雲林作為農業大縣更是積極的投入於農村社區之再生營造在農村再生的計畫支持之下進行農村景觀美化維護農村重要生態以及打造地方特色產業文化逐步提升農村的居住與人文品質活絡在地的經濟活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2261.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2264.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那十餘年來雲林總共合訂了2001個案那在雲林縣449個社區當中已經有305個社區參與培根計畫150個社區完成培根計畫課程之後已經合訂農村再生計畫取得農村再生社區的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2286.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2301.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這是目前全台灣農村再生最多的縣市這也是本席當初推動農村計劃法通過之後每一村每一村的下去做說明會那時候我記得說明會說明了100多村才得到這樣子的結果那在偏鄉呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2309.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2326.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
就是在偏鄉與都市的資源不均衡的現況之下農再基金是農村培育人力與在地產業發展的一個重要資源然而十餘年來基金的經費已經幾乎用完 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2326.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2350.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
因此本席提案修改《農再條例第七條》擴增基金規模由1500億增為3600億並於十年內分年編列預算以幫助農業縣市農村發展翻轉農村的形象讓更多的年輕人願意耕留農村謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2356.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2363.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
接下來我們請農業部長陳俊濟就委員提案版本做報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2374.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2403.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生、大家早。那今天大院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會召開審查。那張嘉郡委員等19人提出了農村再生條例第二條及第七條修正案。那邱議瑩委員等17人及楊瓊瓊委員等18人提出農村再生條例第七條及第十五條修正案等三案。那本部就農村再生執行的一個情形及委員修法的方向予以報告。那請各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2404.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2415.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
不定指教。」以下用簡報的方式跟各位做說明。整個農村再生在民國99年公布以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2417.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2435.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
在相關的再生條例裡面規定政委應設置農村再生基金1500億並在十年之後分年編列預算在一百年度開始成立農村再生基金辦理相關的一個業務整個相關的農村再生基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2435.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2455.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
他分為到目前為止是執行到第三第四期那第一期分別是在一百零一年到一百零四年第二期是在一百零五年到一百零八年那第三期是在一百零九年到一百一十二年那第四期從一百一十三年到一百一十六年那這個計劃以一月經行政院來核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2457.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2474.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那整個的一個計畫推動重點那第一期的經費大概經營用的大概276億左右那主要的重點是在農村再生的一個推動那當初因為計畫一開始最主要是在人力的一個培育的方面跟一個社區的一些小型工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2475.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2499.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
在第二期開始,我們擴大地方政府的參與,農村的再生,加強農村各項基礎設施的改善,同時也朝著產業面來提升農村產業的競爭力,實際合編的是287億左右。第三期經費是建構在第二期的推動成果,我們更持續推動地方創生。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2501.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2518.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
過去的點去連結成一個區域網絡來活絡整個農村的一個經濟跟強化農村的友善的一個生態那第四期是從今年開始113年到114年我們編列了432億那幾個推動重點包括地方的經濟的一個活絡那整個生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2520.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2533.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
發展環境與生活空間的一個改善,那同時也珍惜整個社區的文化跟知識的一個創新,那更重要就是我們導入了公司協力的一個夥伴關係來促進整個農村的一個發展。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2536.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2564.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
過去三期的計畫裡面從農村的培根、農村產業的輔導一直到整個年度再生計畫的一個執行我想成果非常豐碩然後包括也很多的社區的參與那也合訂了大概一千多個農村的農在社區然後同時將社區裡面的這些好物能夠上架到各個平台第二個部分抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2566.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2591.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
舊委員所提的版本在這邊提出說明。那張嘉靖及丁學忠等19人提案的版本裡面總共修了兩條是修正的第二條及第七條。那第二條的部分是將本來的行政院農業委員會改為因為我們改制的關係變成農業部。那這個部分我想是應該我們會做這樣的一個修正。那第七條的部分他最主要是將原來在 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2593.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2601.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
條例裡面設的一千五百億的經費提高到三千六百億,這個部分是張嘉俊委員的一個提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2602.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2629.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那邱議瑩委員跟楊瓊瓔委員的版本這兩個版本大致相似那我們並同說明那最主要的修正是在第七條裡面從原來的1500億提高到4500億然後在經過修正以後在20年內分年來編列然後特別是在條例裡面有特別強調就是政府逐年編列預算來撥入那 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2632.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2648.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
第七條的部分那個現行的版本是比較籠統那在修正的版本特別提到就是說整個農村的再生必須要有一個全國性的農村的再生的總體計畫的一個擬定跟他的一個審核跟執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2649.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2665.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那有了全國農村的再生的總體計畫以後,那各縣市政府的部分在依據這樣的一個農村總體的計畫,在年度上去檢討農再計畫的一個執行。就是說有全國性的也有縣市級的一個農村再生計畫的一個擬定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2667.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2683.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那整個計畫裡面也更明定了相關的計畫必須在相關的土地利用、農宅、生活、生產、生態、文化、景觀及空間規劃裡面去做適當的一個配置跟支出,然後提供一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2684.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2705.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
整建獎勵相關措施。」等於說把現在目前農災基金比較含無的空間更具體化。這個是在第七條的一個修正的部分。那第十五條的部分也是特別去強調中央主管機關因應農村再生的政策方針就國土計畫土地的利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2706.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2733.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
以及因應氣候變遷一定要去訂一個全國的農村再生的一個總體計畫然後再依據這個農村全國性的農村再生總體計畫各直轄縣市因應這樣的一個指導原則就相關縣市的這些生產環境與農村景觀去引領引進鄉村的農村轉型發展事業所需然後指定相關的地點跟實施範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2734.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2751.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那並維護整個生產環境的一個完整性然後在固定的一個時間必須要擴大其農村建築的需求者可以並同前項計畫去通盤檢討改善這是第七條跟第十五條的一個草案的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2751.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2765.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那本部的一個立場在這邊做幾個說明第一個部分是第二條部分因應組織改造我們的機關名稱由農業委員會行政院農業委員會改變為農業部那這個部分我想本部同意修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2767.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2793.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那至於修正草案的第七條裡面那不同的版本裡面他上修農村再生基金設置規模至三千億三千六百億或者是四千五百億那本部的意見最主要是依據財政紀律法的第五條跟第七條他所提到的就是有關所提的法律徵修政府的稅收的時候需要有明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2795.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2809.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
指明彌補資金的來源,然後同時也規範了立法機關在制定修正法律法規的時候不增訂固定經費額度或比例的一個保障。那基於這樣的一個財政距離法 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2811.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2811.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
案。」議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2834.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2856.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
一百一千五百億在一百零九年已經並撥補完成了那至一百一十三年二月底我們的基金的餘額大概還有四百九十七億接近五百億那這個部分我想也滿足目前一百一十三年到一百一十六年的四百三十二億的的一個經費來源就是我想也在這邊跟各位委員提出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2857.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2885.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
整個修正草案第七條主要調整了農村再生總體計畫的一個規劃,擴增基金的用途,跟增加農業活化調適轉型的一個場域。這個部分我想也符合我們現在農村再生條例的推動的一個方向,而且我們也已經積極的在進行,所以這樣的一個條文使整個農村再生的一個條例更為明確化的一個表列,本部並沒有其他的一個意見。 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2886.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2910.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那第十五條的部分,徵定了全國農村再生總理計畫的擬定的部分。那相關的條文裡面,調整了農村規劃的體系,從全國性的作為再調整到整個發展社區的機制跟它的指導的一個作業的一個機制。那這個機制我想會對於以後我們農村再生計畫的一個執行會更為有利,所以本部也競表同意。 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2920.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2949.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
最後我想跟各位委員報告其實農村負擔的糧食生產的重要功能也包括環境、生態、棲地等還有文化價值的維護透過農村空間的規劃引導我們農村的公共建設強化社區的機能同時跨越整合相關的資源互補打造以人為中心的一個宜居、宜業、宜遊的一個幸福農村我想是我們農業部的一個很重要的政策我相信也是委員一直想要共同來推動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2949.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2950.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
以上報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2978.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3000.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
再一個就好了。主席、各位委員、各位在座的先進大早安。我想農村再生條例的主責單位為農業部。國防會受邀列席,我們有兩點說明。針對農村再生條例的第二條、第七條及第十五條的修正草案,我想我們尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3001.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3015.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
主責部會農業部的意見﹖剛才其實部長也有充分的說明那第二點要報告的就是說其實國發會在今年的二月我們的委員會奉其任願交易其實我們已經通過了農村再生 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3017.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3022.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
則實施計劃,計劃期間是113年到116年,總計劃經費是432.2億元,目前農村再生基金到113年2月的剩餘基金還有497億元,仍足以指引。」以上說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3041.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3069.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們行政院還有主席總處有做書面報告那這個部分我們請委員自行參閱並刊登公報那本日議程討論事項我們合併詢答委員詢答前我們依慣例主席來做幾項的宣告各位委員發言的時間本委員會6分鐘必要時加1分鐘非本委員會4分鐘我們上午11點截止發言登記首先我們請第一位的林黛樺委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3071.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3072.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
有請部長我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3081.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3109.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
部長聽您的這個報告啊這個農村再生條例那你們農業部的立場是什麼是要再撥補多少錢呢在您整個的說明我聽不出到底你是支持三千再撥補三千六百億呢還是再支持四千五百億呢那我個人不太能夠接受說好你要等新政府上任之後因為你是繼任的部長所以你們對於過往的執行狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3112.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3139.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這個所有的優點缺點那我需要再用什麼樣的除了調整相關計畫我需要多少的金額或者是三減然後總體金額說你們不可能沒有一個評估啊你才能來說服我們立法院啊那我們立法院認為說欸這個應該其實您看的還不夠精準啊我們再把民運回饋給你們啦所以今天的這樣的討論會才有意義啊所以我不曉得您的主張是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3139.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3165.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
是在拖補多少錢?這才是重點啊。我跟委員說明喔,就是委員所提的版本去增加到3600億或4500億,那我們本部的立場非常明確,就是說依現在目前的財政紀律法,就是在立法院的相關提案的一個版本是沒有辦法去增加這樣的一個經費的上限。那相關的經費的一個預算的擬定是由行政單位...啊所以你主張什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3166.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3173.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
你認為說好,我們就只剩下110,按照你的報告是112、113,110幾年就已經只剩下900多、400多億欸。一年你們的支出是100億,你們在農村支出一年平均100億,所以你現在只能再撐4年欸。 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3184.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3189.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
是所以你的意思是說都不要再補了是嗎?不是我剛才也特別強調就是說部長對立法院的對話要務實不要實問虛答我沒有實問虛答所以你告訴我你認為主張你們內部認為最低基準是多少還是說你覺得應該委員提的都太少了我應該撥補五千億這我們當然也可以接受因為有什麼什麼什麼的計畫調整因為有這個地球暖化 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3210.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3233.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
有氣候變遷所以我們應該再加強什麼我相信每個委員藍綠立委都會接受。好啦這個部長這個就您就要調整一下您作為部長的一個一個角色實問虛答這件事情在現在立法院你只會吃虧而已好我直接進入今天本席的一個這個討論的主題地球暖化 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3234.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3236.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
只會讓農業災損成常態也就是我農業的補助也會成為常態我這邊有幾個提綱跟您來討論第一個全球暖化造成的農產品產量減少第二是針對現階段現在4月5月 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3254.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3274.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這當中我的農民是多麼的苦。以及面對氣候變遷我除了補助之外政府應該有全新的政策的規劃所以本期有一個具體的要求我們因為氣候暖化所產生的農產品產量減少以台中梨山水蜜桃為例梨山是全台灣水蜜桃最大產量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3275.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3298.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
一年也只有一收,每年七、八月為採收期,現在這個時候四到五月是結果的時期,但農民因為氣候異常,水蜜桃只開花不結果,結果率僅約一成,導致水蜜桃的產量減少,農民收成是銳減的,現在出乎可能少五成,更可能達不到四成。 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3298.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3306.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好在看到我的高雄除了臺中的這個梨山水蜜桃外我們高雄有多項的農產品喔水蜜桃、青梅、荔枝、芒果也因為氣候異常導致我的開花率、結果率都下降造成收成銳減再加上我又有猕猴大軍的投資包括南麻夏的這個水蜜桃、六龜的芒果、內門的鳳梨跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3324.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3343.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
發辣果園接招彌猴入侵果園,農民被迫放棄採收,損失更加慘重。我忙碌了一整年,是徒勞無功,心血覆株流水。我們的《農業天然災害救助辦法》的第四條規定目前僅針對颱風、逢風、龍捲風、豪雨、淫雨、冰庫、冰暴、寒流、旱災及地震所造成的災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3352.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3356.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
給補助請問農業部可否將從後病害動物入侵所造成的損害納入補助範圍呢?這是第一個問題好那我們的這個農民再如何的苦呢?這個都是報紙所報 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3371.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3395.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
農業部23萬補助防喉,農民職業這是不夠的,而且講到說喉會跟我們人鬥。所以就本席了解,農業部跟我們高雄市政府是有編列經費補助防喉設施電網的,但是對於水蜜桃整個種植面積廣大一甲以上的農民,架設費用高。 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3396.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3412.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
電費高、設備成本高、補助不足以根本這樣的補助是不足以應付的,是一筆不小的開銷,而且盒子很聰明,不想辦法鑽漏洞,水蜜桃一樣是招偷吃啊。另外一個報導說花蓮有民眾誤觸電網,慘遭電網啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3417.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3445.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個顯現我們電網的防制效果有限而且民眾因為誤觸請這邊我就要請農業部研擬更合適的防堵方法讓農民跟動物能夠共存好面對這樣的氣候變遷我除了補助之外本席一再的強調應該要有全新的政策規劃我們來看左邊這張圖高雄市的南麻小的桃我們的水壁桃的作物從這個是你們自己的官網喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3446.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3448.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3469.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3476.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
全球暖化氣候升高已經即是不爭的事實,農產品的產量逐漸降低,農業部所推廣的智慧農業你們都集中在哪裡?叫做自動化,而且你的自動化也是在這個農機小型農機的一個自動化的推廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3486.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3502.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
雖然可以省時省力大面積的種植,但是呢,針對氣候問題持續的惡化,農產品收成不佳,這個不會是因為你自動化的關係會有所改善。所以面對極端氣候的影響,農業部應將智慧農業的重點放在智慧化。 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3505.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3520.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
精準化來提升產能以協助農民來因應其變化。」更重要的我一再強調我整個農業的決策整個系統都應該要智慧化這已經今天再加上這一次我至少是五次以上在質詢這個議題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3522.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3527.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
農業部應該參考本席之前所質詢的掌握種源基因定序為主軸以調適科學為架構調整農食找出適應的物種針對耐寒、耐熱、耐旱等不同極端氣候的情形發展出不同的物種技術以令農民來因應未來的氣候我就舉一個案例我在高雄市的我們這林園這個養那個石斑魚 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3548.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3550.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
事由：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第12屆第十五條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3569.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3580.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我把A魚跟B魚的整個他的組裝八袋全部查出來他的基因整個查出來發現到A他能夠耐吃那生肉率高B他耐寒我就把這兩個物種這個這個能夠做繁殖了所以產生出來的你知道嗎這個我這個在地的養殖業者一個青農他願意接受我這個建議願意接受我這個煤盒他現在銷到東南亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3598.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3599.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
品質多好啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3600.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3602.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
所以這就是基因定序的一個物種啊我們的我敢講目前在動物在植物或者這個養殖業他是不受契扣的我們是可以給予他契扣因子而讓他有優生學所以這個本席所講的智慧農業掌握基因定序這件事情以發展調適科學講的其實就是我們農業的優生學 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3630.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3645.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
農業的優生學才能去適應我的現在的極端氣候變化這樣的政策你應該重新規劃才對所以我這邊幾個兩個重點請農業部參考本期之前所質詢的掌握種源基因定序的概念從源頭掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3646.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3673.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
以調適科學調整農食找出適應的物種研究可因應極端氣候的經濟作物耐寒耐熱耐旱以因應氣候變遷除了補助之外政府也應該有全新的政策規劃讓智慧化農業的智慧化精準化協助農民在氣候變遷時代也能夠種植跟豐收另外你補助也要讓人民有感啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3674.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3676.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
除了發展這個東西之外改變我們的這個物種之外我氣候變遷常態農業部對農產品的摘損也應該化被動為主動你們現在農業處被動的等待地方政府承包好然後呢應改為主動要求各縣市政府在第一時間農村產生的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3694.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3698.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
你就應該跟我中央這個聯繫啟動災損評估針主動補助光是我這一句話就是你智慧化農業決策的體制你就要導入了然後確保農民的生計不要等到民怨沸騰的這個媒體報導了然後我們各黨各派的立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3715.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3729.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
一直給你打電話好你政府才去補助連解決民怨你都要預先啊所以你在積極的找出你的調適科學的新物種以及你要補助當中化被動為主動才是你這個繼任的部長該有的這個價值啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3732 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3759.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好部長請回應非常謝謝委員的一個建議那事實上委員所提到的我們百分之百認同就是未來我們在新的政策裡面已經確定了用智慧韌性的這樣的概念把相關的精準農業跟智慧農業去導入到整個的一個產業體系這第一個部分第二個部分就是委員所提到的基因定訊正確的名稱應該講分子育種因為分子育種是在農業上叫分子育種在我們產業這個基因定訊不是只有針對業針對我們人 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3761.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3778.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所以這是中央研究院、中央研究院的學士我們在做積極的討論所給我的意思我瞭解就是說我們在產業上面不管在農作物也好或在水產品也好我們都用分子育種就精準的這些您所講的這些描述的育種方向我們會共同朝這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3778.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3781.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3797.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3813.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那法規還是法規面啊?你們如果你認為蟲害、病害跟動物入侵是有的,那至少我就依這個辦法,各縣市有所依據啊。不是,這個要先確認齁,是不是納入。所以你要不要研議啊,好不好,帶動研議好不好。好,那部長剛才有回答,要研議齁,請研議好給,送交給我們委員,謝謝。接下來我們請邱議瑩委員請做詢談。 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3829.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3833.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
謝謝主席我是不是請一下陳部長我們再請陳部長部長早部長早部長我們今天討論這個農村再生條例的這個修法那有幾位委員相對都提出了農村再生條例的這個條文的修正草案部長我讓您看一下到底農村再生做一些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3858.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3873.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這是我們高雄市農業局在今年二月份他舉辦了2023高雄農村再生社區成果發表展那我們大概做了一本書這個大概是他的目錄農村再生計畫呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3876.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3903.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我們的岐山糖廠社區曾經得到了金牌農村第一名。那這個社區其實很好玩,就是說這一些包括鄭宇軒執行長他們去創造了一個體驗物產的直賣所,然後把盈餘的20%回饋到基層的老人照顧裡頭。所以糖廠社區算是在做老人長照跟做社區營造跟做農村再生算是佼佼者。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3904.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3923.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
讓您再看一下六龜新發社區這個是88風災的受災最嚴重的一個地方但是我們現在把台灣的特種山茶把它做研發我們做成了六龜原生山茶不只這個社區得到了農村領航獎我們把六龜山茶送到國外去比賽還獲得比利時 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3925.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3940.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
ITI的國際評鑑風味最高評價三星獎,他們去年一共拿到了8顆星星,這個社區做了三查。其三的原副社區因為都是老人家,那這個地方過去的老名字叫做愛堤, |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3941.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3958.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
所以我們就把80歲的這些老人開了一個咖啡廳讓這些老婆婆們可以利用在地種植的咖啡來開設一個咖啡廳當然是我們在美濃這兩年最有名的水準市集 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3959.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3972.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
每年大概都超過了三萬人以上去逛這個市集。部長我要讓您看的就是說農村再生這過去的十年來我們在地方做了這麼多我現在只單舉在本席的選區裡頭的幾個特殊獲獎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3975.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3993.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那剛剛您提到這個我們知道這個經費大概在四年之後就會沒有了所以政府的立場上面會不會持續執行農村再生的計畫那農業部的版本有沒有什麼時候會送到立法院來部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3993.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4008.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好謝謝委員我想也謝謝委員分享這樣的一個農村再生的就至少在高盆地區的一個成果那事實上農村再生他背後所的經費的資源就是我們的農村再生的一個基金那這樣的一個基金的確 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4010.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4024.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
讓我們有更多的資源能夠投入在農村的各項的一個建設包括基礎的一個環境建設還有人文景觀的一個持續那更重要就是透過一些現在導入的這些綠色造物也能夠讓農村的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4026.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4028.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4048.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4065.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
同意我們的相關的方案的時候,那方案未來也是4年一個方案。那就像我們這次的11到113我們也是抱怨,那抱怨提供以後,那如果基金未來經費不足的時候,那相關的行政院就會另外籌措預算來提供這樣的一個經費。 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4068.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4084.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
雖然本席的提案裡頭是有直接明列希望你們把這個基金預算增加到4500億但後來我翻查了一下這個大概跟我們的財政紀律法其實是有一點相違背所以這個部分本席不堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4085.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4106.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
但是我要您承諾的部分就是說農村再生的計劃其實是會持續做然後經費的部分農業部也會持續的來跟行政院爭取我想行政院對於這樣的一個農村發展的計劃應該是要給予全力的支持跟配合這整個不只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4107.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4125.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
在整個農村甚至整個農宅、農村的景觀、地方的創生、青年返鄉的就業等等其實都是要一併考量規劃但是部長我還要再跟您提醒一下過去做農村再生通常都會做這種彩繪牆、塗鴉牆 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4128.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4145.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
整個農村的牆面就畫一大堆但是畫來畫去都是畫日本的卡通人物版權有沒有拿到不知道三、五年後整個褪色又很醜也不知道要不要補或者是怎麼補然後這個跟比如說哆啦A夢或者是這個哆哆囉這個龍貓跟這個社區的連結是什麼沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4150.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4153.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4165.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4192.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
委員所秀的這個東西應該是在早期在大概民國100年那個一開始啟動的時候那時候大家不是非常清楚所以很多彩繪就不管怎麼樣現在還是有欸對但是現在齁我們整個的一個彩繪跟裝置藝術其實地方的一個重要的裝置藝術跟彩繪的部分它是在在特定的地區而有的特定的我們的台灣的文化的導入對你還是要跟地方去做連結啦比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4194.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4195.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4214.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4214.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4235.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4236.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4251.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4267.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
還有一個呢就是我們去收集那個蟲巷這個荔枝村巷的這個蟲卵片最近好像把這個政策停掉了可不可以說明一下除了我們的整個荔枝村巷的房子除了剛剛講這幾個以外還有沒有什麼新的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4268.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4297.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我跟委員說明就是當初有在跟地方政府在合作就是收購這個荔枝村巷的軟片它的葉片的下面那個時間點剛好是我們在相關的荔枝村巷的貧富小峰的物理性防治還沒有很健全而且還沒有很推廣的時候我們是搭配這些同軟的一個收購那現在貧富小峰本身的一個技術性已經非常成熟了所以我們現在是用化學防治 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4298.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4317.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
跟我們的物理防治共同,那現在最重要的就是不管是化學防治或物理防治一定要區域防治,如果個別的農田去防治的時候那個效果不顯著所以你們會結合當地的縣市政府、農業局或者是農會、或者是產消班?對,用區域防治的方式共同來啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4318.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4345.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我最後30秒齁我要講的就是說剛剛講到那個荔枝春香你們很多的防治方法最近呢聽說你們林業署多了一個防治方法就是把它抓來然後炸來吃喔不然這個有一點本末倒置啊我知道很多的泰國籍的勞工會喜歡吃荔枝春香其實在我們農村地區很多他們都會找泰籍的勞工來幫忙抓荔枝春香但是吃荔枝春香是他們的文化不是我們的文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4346.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4368.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那我們要去講求這個病蟲害的防治不應該去推廣所謂的叫大家來了解說怎麼樣去炸荔枝、春香然後可以來吃喔這個是嚴重違法的行為啊即使做病蟲害防治我們都不應該自己帶頭去處罰所以部長這個可能也要請你們多多的督促我也覺得不恰當所以我已經有跟他們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4369.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4387.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我們在病毒化防治不能把那些蟲變成一個料理,這樣的話會造成一些外界的一個困擾。是,好,所以這件事情我覺得可能還是要督促下去請以後的這些單位如果在做病蟲害防治的宣導的時候,有一些基本的原則還是要能夠拿捏好。了解。好,謝謝。好,謝謝。好,謝謝。我們繼續請賴瑞榮委員請做選檔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4401.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4409.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好謝謝主席請陳部長我們再請陳部長好部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4411.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4435.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們今天處理農村再生條例那其實大概比較關鍵的條文是在第七條的部分這過去大概政府其實有在條文上訂了編了1500億但是其他大概有些委員們希望來提高這個額度那我先問一下過去雖然編了1500億但是從101年開始其實分了四次都有編列進來都有補進來我看到了這個從300多億實際200多億200多億400 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4442.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4467.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
276、287、420,到了今年的二月也再補了432億進來。所以這個到了2027年應該是都沒有問題。所以我想關鍵不是在這個額度多少,關鍵是在政府是不是有不斷的撥補進來。你有撥補進來的話這些金額就都夠用。所以其實從這樣看來其實關鍵的問題不在於把1500億往上調升多少,而是在其實政府要不斷的持續撥補進來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4469.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4482.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我根本說明齁就是以現在目前因為農村再生剛好因應外界現在目前的這些極端天候的挑戰所以我們更積極的去讓農村去復育的過程中大概每一年平均大概是大概100億上下 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4484.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4484.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4505.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4507.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
事由：審查：事由：審查：事由：審查：事由：審查： |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4524.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4541.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
對,因為我想農村再生計畫的一個成果我想大家都看得到,所以我相信這樣的一個經費的未來的提出的時候,我相信應該會得到一個支持。對,因為你們部裡面也是希望能夠維持這樣的1500億這樣的規模就可以了,其實也不會影響到再生能源這個基金的問題嗎?對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4543.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4565.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那再來我請教一下其實另外一個當然也是如果假如最後強行要通過這樣的一個修正案的話因為原先的這個1500億的部分其實是在民國99年來通過的來通過的然後訂定的這也是行政院提出來的版本那現在如果立法院沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4566.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4568.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
檢查：立法院第11屆第12期經濟委員會議：審查：事由：審查： |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4590.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4605.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
財政紀律法第七條提到,立法機關修正法案的時候不得增訂固定經費的額度,這個其實也違反財政紀律法的一個相關的規定,部長同意這樣的看法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4606.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4627.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
對,我們針對委員所提的版本,那我剛才說過了,農村再生的確是需要經費去支持的,那經費可以透過我們行政的一個體系向行政院去報院去爭取。那委員如果直接在條文裡面直接明定的時候,那我們也提出了依現在目前的財政基地法是不可以這樣做的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4628.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4643.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那我想因為委員版本我們絕對尊重我們只是把現在我們所了解的就是說如果這樣編列的話是違反相關的財政紀律法那行政單位是沒有辦法去預約這樣的一個財政紀律法去給予支持或給予任何的一個comment |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4643.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4667.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那問一下部長,最近新的國會起來之後,很多案子幾乎不太尊重行政院的看法,包括行政機關的看法,強行通過,甚至於把一些預算部分大幅的拉高起來,甚至於對整個財政上的問題也不做考慮,這個是違反財政紀律法甚至有違憲的疑慮的,那如果立法院強行通過這樣的法案的話, |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4671.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4690.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這個農業部這邊會怎麼處理?我想如果立法院通過這樣的一個版本的話我想行政院應該會有一個比較明確的對策因為基本上立法院通過這個法案是違背相關的這些規定嘛那違背相關的規定的話應該會有一些他們特別的一個處置方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4693.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4709.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我希望這個還是要積極的做說明我們希望立法院大家在妥善的溝通希望在尊重行政院跟整個體制下的時候因為經費都一定是夠用那關鍵是在政府的撥補不在那個額度的提升額度提得再高政府不撥補其實還是不夠的啦所以我覺得關鍵還是在撥補我們也希望待會來討論的時候能夠做一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4712.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4714.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
公糧收購價格公糧收購價格公糧收購價格公糧收購價格公糧收購價格公糧收購價格公糧收購價格公糧收購價格公糧收購價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4740.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4742.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
邱議瑩等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4757.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4783.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
這個同時也讓更多人種水稻那水稻面積一增加產量一增加整個市面上的這些糧價就往下降所以農民反而以長期來看三五年以後農民的收入不見得會維持在那樣子那第二個部分是公糧只佔我們所有的稻米裡面的百分之三十事實上是百分之七十是由民間的自營糧來收購的所以怎麼樣去提高民間的自營糧 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4784.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4805.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
的一個價格產地價格那才是我們應該要去注意的所以農業部現在目前已經有一個陸陸續續在規劃一個比較完整的一個政策去想辦法去提升我們的自營糧的這些支撐自營糧的價格那這樣子也才能夠讓我們的稻農真正能夠確保他的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4806.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4832.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我希望所有的政策的目的是希望給農民長遠的一個好的受益跟效益但是這個也要審慎如果短期性的因素投入了反倒短期看來好但長遠不見得好甚至於現在我們的整個糧食甚至稻米的一些狀況整體如果沒有把國家資源做一個好的一個配置的話我希望這一塊部長這邊能不能在一個禮拜內的時間把這樣的一個完整的方案提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4832.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4859.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
事由這個需要對社會說明也需要跟立法院做說明我們希望大家長遠來思考怎麼樣對達到最大的一個效益好不好我想我們把相關的那個案子規劃出來以後一定會跟委員們溝通然後同時我們也會跟行政院報告一個禮拜內把它提出來好不好我認為你們應該已經有想法了但是把那個完整性把它整個抓出來一個禮拜好不好可以嗎然後跟整個社會跟立法院做一個詳細的溝通最後請教一下剛剛其實委員有提到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4861.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4861.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4891.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4915.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們會持續推動那我現在想法就是說因為用微電網是被動式的圍堵那相對被動式圍堵成本也相對比較高那我們是不是可以另外再搭配我們的農業保險去做成一個比較好的一個積極性的一個萬一受損的時候有相關的一個補償但是這個東西可能還要做一個精算因為保險的部分可能牽涉到風險的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4916.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4917.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
一、本院委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4940.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4947.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
一個禮拜的時間給我們一個完整的方案給我們好不好可以齁然後來看怎麼對侯愛的部分有一個好的處理OK好謝謝謝謝接下來我們請謝一鋒委員請做詢談謝謝主席我想要請陳部長我們再請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4973.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4999.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
很早喔你們上次我有聽到喔農業部4月1號你就發文給食藥署了說要把進口的鮮乳改名為長效乳對不對是阿已經一個月了欸現在怎樣我已讀不回是不是食藥署已讀不回我跟委員報告齁就是我上個禮拜也遇到遇到那個衛夫的次長齁那我也跟他說明了 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5000.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5027.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
他都要照啊?不是,但是因為他說食藥署從食藥署的角度來講他對這樣子的一個名詞他們也有一些利害關係人的不同人的考量那他們原則上也希望能夠推廠我們的國產牛奶那剛好因為在520的前後那他們好像Pending在那邊是喔,那他們是怎樣?沒有跟他在一起的名字,那他們有什麼建議? |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5029.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5058.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為整個的一個保存期限是根據製造者本身的一個生產條件嘛那我們去特別就灌了一個長效乳來區分我們的鮮乳對我們國內是沒問題的可是在國際上的那個名詞的使用那可能會有一些困擾啦跟貿易上面有關係對那我們是積極的跟他溝通那你有沒有順便也發函給我們的那個就是那個談判的辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5060.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5063.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
答案班公司基本上在這個階段不會處理這個,因為我們沒有確定案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5080.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5093.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
所以你們是要強硬起來喔?會,我們一定會堅持希望有這樣的一個名詞的改變。大家所有的弱農業都很緊張2025的這個零關稅的問題。是,我了解。應該2月1號我在院會總質詢問問你關於那種弱牛的淘汰補助,這部分做到怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5104.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5127.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們現在目前報院的經費報院的計劃有核定了那核定的經費那核定的經費下來以後我想我們就開始啟動一家有多少本來是說兩萬塊那時候院長在您質詢的時候有變成兩萬五那那個部分我想我們會再報院去提升這樣的一個兩萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5128.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5157.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
對阿因為你也知道現在的供需的問題那導致於就是他們有過剩的這個牛有沒有那我們是不是就在這個期間把弱牛淘汰掉然後讓強壯的牛未來可以就是提高我們國產的對鮮乳的品質然後呢也再加上我們再把這個區隔起來把紐西蘭的鮮乳就是把它更名為長效乳做整個市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5158.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5172.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
規格,才不會影響我們國內的落農業者,好不好?那還有,剛才也有其他委員問到,這個荔枝春香為什麼我們林業署會把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5173.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5178.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
實要署說律師村像非法定可食昆蟲所以沒辦法炸來吃你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5194.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5222.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
說明那個是根據林業保育署說明他是在一個環境教育的課程裡面去提出來的那我個人我覺得不當就是把這個影片好像當作說這個東西可以炒來吃您農業部都破訴怎麼會犯這種低級錯誤啊所以人家食藥署才會覺得說你好的名字是不是也有錯誤啊對不對會導致於你溝通失效所以我認為啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5224.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5241.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
對,我們改改的啦,我們盡量有效溝通啦,好不好?這樣子對我們台灣的農業才會有幫助啊,好不好?還有我想要再請問一下余業曙,就是文革的我們方院,就是一個很重大的文革的產區喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5242.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5263.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那我們現在都在推動這種履歷產銷的文革還有甚至有一些青農已經都做到了就是有機的文革喔那這個對於未來台灣的文革出口以及台灣文革的品牌建立是非常重要的一個課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5264.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5283.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
但我們知道,最近有一些入獄的風電以及跟環境有相關的垃圾的這種廢棄物的排放等等會影響到文革養殖產區的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5285.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5306.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
他們的養殖環境,你可以問漁業署長啊,他做專業啊,張署長對不對,你就跟他說啊,影響文革的生長,有時候連冬天的氣候,溫度是不是驟降,水溫是不是改變,都可能影響文革的生長。我想要請問漁業署長的是? |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5309.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5323.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
如果你們有沒有做研究你們是不是可以回去做研究到底這個陸域風機它所產生的低頻振動以及低頻的噪音會不會導致文革的產量的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5325.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5348.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那在這個這個養殖專區裡面你們是不是有什麼所謂的養殖專區的什麼就是說還可以設立某一個部分可以設立這樣子的光電的就是就是綠能的這個專區所以是不是如果在養殖旁邊 余燕淑你不要跟他說了啦你等一下你回答就好了啦 淑長你回答就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5350.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5377.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
是不是你是不是可以回去也可以折成水事所來做相關的研究?是,謝謝委員那彰化的文革齁最近有一些漁業青年回去以後確實整個品質大幅提升包括在產銷履歷你常常去看阿對不對對對對他們提升真的非常的多那至於委員剛剛所提到的說這些風電啦震動啦這些音頻是不是會影響到文革的生產目前應該是沒有相關的文獻但我們會照委員的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5378.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5401.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
因為你沒有相關的文獻,所以我才要麻煩你,你那裡太多破碎了嘛,這個應該要對於這個相關做研究,那你們如果研究出來,如果有相關的影響,你也要提供給經濟部啊,是不是?也要跟他溝通啊,或者是提供給內政部啊,對於相關未來的法規設計的時候,我們就要把這一項考量進去啊,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5401.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5422.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
是,我們一定會注重那個整個生產的環境部長可不可以我想我一定會用科技計畫去支持相關的研究我最支持科技計畫了我最支持農業的科技計畫包括風機的一些低音頻對於養殖的那些那個可能要專門的計畫去研究包括其他的光電的部分的影響我們做相關的研究好,謝謝你 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5431.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5433.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
一、本院委員張嘉郡等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第二條及第十五條條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5447.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5465.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
部長今天就是農再條例喔那我想您應該非常了解農村負擔糧食生產的重要功能但是在農村再生條例推動之前我不不曉得說您還有沒有印象在推動之前相較於都市農村給人的印象為何農村給人的印象就是很雜亂然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5473.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5495.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
因為那時候的一個生產面大概都是用傳統的農業的方法去執行所以去到那邊五、三年經常拼到類似這樣子的一個風貌就是過去農村給人的印象就像部長所講的非常的老舊不方便可能髒亂但是都市化跟工商發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5496.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5525.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
人口大量就是集中到都市裡面去導致農村的青壯外移公共建設跟發展不足生活機能文化特色都漸漸在喪失那2010年那本席也是農再條例的提案人之一當時呢行政院的版本我記得是1200億那我與翁崇鈞委員的這個堅持之下爭取到1500億那農再執行到今天已經十多年了請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5526.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5528.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
對於農再執行的成果滿意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5530.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5556.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我想所有的農在的一個執行他一定是階段性的一直往上提升那以現在我們所見到的大概有一百零幾一百零四十多個農村再生計畫那個區域我1046齁這個區域我們看到了他的活力我們看到了青年人進到裡面去我們也看到了那裡的長者受到一些知識性的一個支撐 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5557.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5559.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那現在我們是慢慢的變成一個網絡從一個個體的農村再生的計畫聯絡成一個網絡的一個社區 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5566.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5595.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
是,所以其實部長形容的也非常貼切感受到欸,農村就是農村裡面有年輕人回流注入新的活力然後老人也活得更有尊嚴所以農村再生的存在其實是非常非常重要尤其他是一個由下而上是有農村自主喔然後很多農民跟在地鄉親的想法是得以發揮的那我現在也給這個部長看一下其實我們在雲林喔其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5596.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5622.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這些農在都發展得非常好這是我們整個雲林的成果當初農在條例通過的時候本期是每一村每一村到村裡面去宣傳說請他們一定要成立社區發展協會也一定要參加培根計畫這個效果非常的好但是我們擔心如果農在基金用完了怎麼辦整個農村以後未來要怎麼辦部長你覺得這對於我們整個台灣發展會有什麼樣的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5626.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5641.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我想第一個部分就是農村再生計畫到目前為止大概有將近497億那足以支應我們113到116的那116以後可能會見底但是在這個過程中我想行政院本身在 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5642.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5646.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案》案。adequate policy, an important policy. |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5646.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5665.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們通常提四年級計畫,去抱怨。那抱怨以後,就算以後基金是見底的,透過我們的抱怨的計畫,如果獲得同意的話,還可以由公寓算來撥補。所以我們持續會做這樣的一個努力。除了這個部分之外,本席今天所提的說要再修正,把它再提高到3600億,請問部長支持嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5667.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5692.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我跟委員說明就是這個牽涉到因為預算的編列是由行政單位來編的當然那個部分我不是要逼你去說你可以但是我想要知道說你支不支持我想經費本身是一個推動我們農村再生重要的一個支柱啦這些經費能夠有持續性的經費是最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5692.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5693.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以你是贊成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5710.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5728.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
國土計畫法對於農地農村的使用分區是再難以變更再難以進行變更這等於是宣告說未來農村發展將被進一步的限制然後年輕人更不願意留在農村部長你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5729.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5738.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我想國土計畫就算未來開始114年4月如果順利執行的時候他還有一個通盤檢討的機制就是每五年可以通盤檢討但是你覺得我們準備好了嗎你覺得這個國土計畫法是明年真的可以實施嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5744.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5762.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我個人認為就是因為現在國土計畫現在這個規限是公佔是應該現在還有地方針對不管是以農業部分的農一農二本身的一個編列還有農三的部分會有一些爭議所以還需要時間讓他們去比較仔細的去做所以部長也是同意說應該暫緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5764.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5785.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
如果這個要看喔,因為谷土計畫不只是農業的部分,還有其他的部分,那農業的部分如果有更多的時間,我覺得是可以讓這個計畫更完整的上路。沒錯,本席也同意這件事情應該是要降緩,把所有的配套不管是你農業部的其他部會的都把它都做好之後再去實施,否則後面喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5786.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5810.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
會亂成一鍋粥。」這一點我也很感謝部長講出你真實的看法因為我們的確要執行之前需要多一點耐心把所有的細節都盤點好盤整好再去實施那另外就是有關於公糧收購的價格上一次也是本席提的13年前那之前本席有問過部長部長說要等520之後才能決定那我想知道說其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5816.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5830.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
離520只剩下5天,部長您決定了沒有?我跟委員說明,就是沒有錯,您所提到的這10年來物價上漲以農業來講,以稻作來講,我們做全國性的一個平均大概10% |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5831.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5855.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
但是同樣的他的產量也提高了所以以公斤為單位來算的話他的成本增加了大概2%這是第一件事情因為基本上我覺得你的算法我們也可以坐下來好好談那目前我們大院已經二讀通過要提高每公斤8塊元以上這一點部長同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5857.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5868.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我基本上我覺得這個要非常慎重的去思考因為如果說用經費可以解決事情那相對單純我們要考慮的是整個產業的我基本上不認同你不認同所以你是不支持公糧收購價格要提高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5877.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5882.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我、我說我們、我們支持的是我們要確保稻農的收益但是稻農的收益本身我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5895.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5920.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
最後我先再問一下就是百億基金養豬的這個補助啊其實也已經快要見底了那目前呢我們雲林縣呢有156萬頭是佔全國的三分之一的頭數那為了提升這個養豬的效率啊很多這些老舊不堪的設備啊污水池啊都需要改善那我想要請問一下就是說今年是執行計畫的最後一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5923.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5926.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那雲林縣申請踴躍大概有400場申請的金額是8億4千多萬但到目前為止我們這個農業部這邊只有通過1億多那不曉得部長能不能再繼續大力支持一下我們的養豬產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5945.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5968.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我想養豬產業我們一定會去支持那這牽涉到經費的編列跟當時雲林先生我提出來希望中央來補助的那個時間點因為那個時間點已經過了那個經費編列的時間所以我們在下一期的那個預算我們還會繼續你還有下一期嗎這不是執行的最後一年嗎當然名稱不會是一樣的但是針對養豬產業的升級我們還希望能夠持續的推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5973.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5984.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這就是代表說部長會向行政院爭取續辦下一個階段,是嗎?類似這樣,但是名稱不是白衣機的延續,就是說針對養豬產業的行為會繼續,升級會繼續。這個一定是要會持續的,因為養豬產業正在轉型中,不能說轉到一半就停掉了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5995.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6012.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個本席大力的支持因為對的事情就是要持續去做尤其我們雲林縣是在全國養豬產業的三分之一而且包括大概還有七成的這個豬舍都還沒有被改善希望部長能夠承諾繼續積極的向行政院爭取支持我們養豬產業的升級我想我們已經在做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6021.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6025.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
事由：立法院第11屆第12會議經濟委員會第11屆第12條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12會議經濟委員會第12屆第12會議經濟委員會第12屆第12會議經濟委員會第12屆第12會議經濟委員會第12屆第12會議經濟委員會第12屆第12會議經濟委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6051.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6075.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這個養豬大家都很關心我們也謝謝張嘉郡委員也請農業部將你們要報的時候依序委員所需要的請這個給委員說明時間點然後繼續追蹤那麼要請下一位委員鄭振全委員這個質詢前主席來在這邊報告一下因為我們的農村再生條例行政部門跟我們委員大家聽清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6077.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6102.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
行我們是在一百零一年到一百零四年是第一期農在條例那我們的財政紀律法是在一百零八年的時候那當時的氛圍是因為有國防跟這個教育的經費的問題所以當時說不能不能直接就是說金額多少可是這個是圈現在國防主計總書今天又來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6104.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6117.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
今天主要的目的也就是希望幫助農民剛剛不管藍綠的委員在詢答當中跟行政部門大家都一致也就是希望繼續但是我們委員之所以提案的目的也就是我們到116年剛剛部長有說要用慶了沒錢啊這1500億所以大家地方很緊張我們希望提出這個問題希望繼續繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6131.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6148.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
所以剛剛行政部門有說這個財政紀律法我再一次強調財政紀律法當時在108年才設那設了之後呢是因為國防跟教育所以有了這樣子的一個解釋氛圍但是其他的特別基金有沒有這個氛圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6150.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6159.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
白紙寫字,上面是沒有的。」所以我也希望我們行政部門當我們提出議案的時候大家要好好的理性來討論理性來討論本期不希望一切惡法這是不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6165.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6194.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
案 目的大家共同的目的都希望一定在116年之後一定要繼續因為剛剛部長有說明了你們好的政策你們會繼續抱怨但是我們在我們的立法部門裡頭監督代表人民不知道行政院到時候他會不會同意如果你農業部報了行政院行政院不同意那我們人民怎麼辦呢所以在監督的立場我們一定會未雨綢繆我們希望在文字方面大家在尋答 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6195.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6197.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
的控檔。」好好冷靜去想到底要怎麼樣能夠確認白紙寫黑字的是一定要繼續因為剛剛部長有講了好的政策你們會報給這個行政院萬一行政院不准呢你告訴我們一句話你要回來公務部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6214.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6218.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
公務預算來執行之。可是當你的公務預算你如果總量沒有增加你增加這個部分會不會排擠到其他?這個也是我們為你農業部在思考的所以今天會提出這樣子的一個方案我也謝謝藍綠白的委員大家都支持在文字方面要怎麼樣這個這個大家來討論所以我再次強調行政部門我們要用心好好的來討論內容好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6243.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6245.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
謝謝那接下來我們請鄭正前委員請做詢談我們再請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6266.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6293.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
部長好今天主席特別安排了農村再生條例的一個修法部分那我想說其中很關鍵的一個就是剛剛主席也特別提到了一個農村再生基金的問題那我想說基金如果缺乏永續的經營規劃的時候一定會坐吃山空那我們農村再生條例在民國99年制定的時候第七條當中的時候規定了設置農村再生基金嘛那當時基金規模是1500億那分十年預算編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6294.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6306.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
現在基金即將用盡,剛剛主席也特別提到那很多委員都提出了不同的一個方案那基本上草野委員都提出來了希望能夠將基金的規模提高到3500億到4500億之間分年剝入 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6310.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6329.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
對於農村再生基金推動各項農村再生計畫本席表示支持。但是對於農村再生基金,它是一個非營業特種基金基金來源除了是政府的撥補之外,也應該要有其他的收入協助基金的永續經營,否則基金就只能等著坐吃山空 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6329.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6347.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我想這樣的一個說法應該是部長應該也認同啦OK好那我們看到農村再生基金裡面他長期有無償借款給其他的基金包括農業天然災害救助基金包括農業發展基金我們看到民國111年的一個決算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6350.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6367.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
農村再生基金就是借給了農業天然災害救助基金10.6億元然後農業發展基金也借了15.3億元我想請問一下部長農村再生基金有沒有內部資金調度需要有算利率 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6368.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6392.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
計席這樣的一個機制有沒有部長我跟委員說明就是農村再生基金本身就是有短期的借貸通常是因為我們在其他的基金像農發基金、農損基金在當年度發生的額度比較多的時候經過抱怨經過特措管理委員會同意以後會操之並決算那這個時候就用短期的是由那個農村再生基金去撥然後第二年國庫就要撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6394.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6414.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
理解那個部長因為這基金當中有調度可是我想問一下就是我們基金當中的一個那個內部的調度都沒有計息對不對政府沒有計息嗎如果都沒有計息可是並不是所有的這種基金都沒有計息喔像我們新興的開發基金它就有定計息的相關的規定所以我在想說農村再生基金規模這麼大那 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6415.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6437.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
如果都沒有類似的規範的時候那資金的那個運用效能跟收益其實顯然就不太夠而且他如果說再比方說在農業部當不同基金當中可以直接這樣去營資的時候呢就感覺很像農業部的一個小金庫所以本席希望說就是對於這個季期的部分農業部能夠仔細的去參考去其他基金的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6439.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6466.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
運作規劃的一個方式。」那麼對於農業天然災害救助基金跟農業發展基金他有沒有償還計畫?那目前的時候預計什麼時候會還完?這個部分?這個部分因為我們每一筆對於就是向農債基金借錢的都是抱怨同意。不是農業部自己來的。然後行政院同意了以後第二年就會撥補。對。可是過程當中其實他撥補回來的時候其實就沒有計息嘛對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6468.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6469.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6489.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6515.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那這六個基金當中的時候我想簡單來看一下在基金當中的時候農業特別社會基金裡頭它基本上就是逐年增加就表示農業部也認真在爭取這個部分那這邊我們給予肯定可是我們看到了一個漁業發展基金的部分漁業發展基金的時候其實非常的少除了110年有增加的部分可是110年增加的部分它其實是因為它 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6517.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6542.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
有認列95到99年的一個應追繳沒有追繳的一個損失的部分,對不對?所以它才增加一千多萬。那我要特別講的狀態就是在這個農業特別收入基金當中的時候,那個漁業相關的一個基金非常非常的少。漁業發展基金僅佔這個農業特別收入基金的萬分之三到五而已。 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6543.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6550 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院及第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6572.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6579.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第12會期經濟委員會及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第12會期經濟委員會及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第12會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6600.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6615.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
更多的一個資源去處理南寮漁港清淤的問題我想請問一下我們現在南寮漁港清淤去年今年有4900萬我知道目前已經在進行了明年的預算有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6616.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6618.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11會期經濟委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6645.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6673.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
對,那我們這邊預算要怎麼去找?不是一年兩千五百萬現在兩年四千九百萬就可以解決的問題啊我想跟委員說明我們年度邊的預算可能是針對他當年度可能的機率去清理但是像這麼嚴重的情形應該有一次性的讓他紓盡完了以後再用年度的經費去做維持是部長很棒喔你講到一次性的預算去清於整個清於完之後之後再用每一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6673.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6675.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6693.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6718.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那因為現在的預算還可以做520以後還可以做適度的調整那不足了因為現在在編明年度的所以我們會做適度的調整第二個部分就是漁業署的計畫不只是公務預算還有基金的預算在裡面所以我們會有一些不同的方式去來協助漁業的發展是部長所以我剛剛有特別提到了一個漁業基金的相關預算就是因為他也相對少所以需要部長這邊去統籌一下能夠給就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6722.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6726.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案：立法院第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6745.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6767.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我都覺得可以肯定雖然我們認為他也許比例不一定符合相較於新竹漁港的一個狀態所以剛剛部長也承諾要給新竹漁港一次性的其餘的部分那我希望就是部長這邊盡速把它整合好之後跟本辦做一個詳細的一個報告可不可以可以好謝謝部長以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6775.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6789.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好謝謝我們接下來請張祺凱委員請做詢談那個與會人士我們中午不休息那如果也要生理管理請自動去謝謝我們再請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6811.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6835.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
昨天公糧收購算是向前跨了一大步昨天包括臺灣民眾黨我代表臺灣民眾黨的這個提案還有楊瓊瓔的提案昨天都近乎二讀啦那接下來應該是一個月內就要找部長協調了今天我們期待啊部長在這個協調過程不要一毛不拔寸草不生好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6836.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6841.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第二條及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6858.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6868.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們本來台灣民眾黨要求一公升要調升至少五塊錢那楊瓊瓔的是要八塊嘛對不對我聽到內幕說行政部門是行政院那邊可能是要一公升調三塊是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6871.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6897.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
完全沒有這個消息我跟委員說明每條一塊錢要花4.32億至少大概有這個數字其實台灣民眾黨是一個理性、務實、科學的政黨我們是去看了一些必要的條件包括成本的增加這段時間13年每條物價上漲15%農藥跟肥料上漲25%漲更多的是基本工資13年基本工資漲了將近1萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6899.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6920.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
就是53%所以漲五塊錢不過分沒關係我們反正一個月內會再協商好不好是這部分請你拜託一下多照顧我們的我們會提出一個大家都滿意的方案好期待你的滿意的方案不過最重要的不要一毛不拔寸草不生好來我們來問一個歷史性今天希望是一個歷史性的詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6921.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6924.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6953.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6954.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6979.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6979.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6994.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7014.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
兩千三百五十二萬然後委託加工的部分是三千三百六十七萬然後還有蛋餅調度的部分還有相關的行政費用還有消費的費用堆肥的費用這些東西加起來是十億我跟委員說明我剛才這些資料是透過我們因為會計帳最清楚會計帳最清楚那會計帳所列的這些項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7025.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7037.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
議長,這個是很重要,這個順目字不會再變了嘛,對不對?一個細目都非常清楚,等一下給我一份,然後給記者一份,我們今天把它定下來。議長,我要提醒你一點齁,審計部也是要查理這個事,你不要這個順目字又有跳動喔齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7045.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7054.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我還是要跟委員說明,所有的雞蛋調度是由區長會,然後區長會提報計畫來我們農業部從會計的角度去合這樣的一個經費的項目。那這個部分我想我們會後會提給委員,這沒問題。但是我覺得在這個時間點,我們會想辦法在我們的公開,就是我們的什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7069.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7070.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
短短短短短短短短短短短短短短 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7086.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7106.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
今天很清楚全民買單就是10億就定掉下來那本席還更清楚的不是只有你剛講這個細目本席很清楚要求兩個東西過期雞蛋採購金額的要一個詳細的列表包括進口國數量進口日期跟到案的這個價格這個你本來就是這樣做嘛對不對你再清楚給我一份第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7107.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7135.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我跟委員說明齁因為有很多東西都已經在去年度的那個官網裡面就呈現了就是我們都有定期的有進口我們就會把那個數量有個報表數量會增加有做的東西依照這個剛講的規格進口國數量進口日期跟到案價格給我第二個我跟委員先說明齁因為你的進口日期變成每一批每一批那個已經屬於在調查了 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7135.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7164.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那我個人覺得說我們基本上我們本身現在目前的相關的規定是至少對農業部我們有經過會計還有一些同仁去了解了以後是一個正常的行為當然沒有錯續產會本身有一些作業上必須精進的地方那如果說每一筆每一個批號都要去調那個是大工程那相對的現在我們畜牧師我們還有很多很多的事情要做其實不是今天我要求你我審計部我覺得審計部去查一定也是要這個細目對 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7165.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7167.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我相信民眾本身因為會計的報表是最精準,如果連會計報表都不 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7190.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7212.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
就覺得不準的話,那政府的威信在哪邊?好,我們也看你的報表啦,好不好?那另外一個很重要的就是那個去化過程,到底能不能招公信嘛齁?我剛才看你的網站,有進步啦!你訂那個白色的檔案,現在今天有六天的檔案,對不對?我還是,沒有,對不起,我還是跟委員講齁,整個過期雞蛋的消費有第三方 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7212.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7229.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
全程的監控,包括地方的衛生局、地方的相關的人員,還有我們部分的政府。這個東西如果沒有辦法取得公信,那什麼影片其實只是一個讓人家知道我們的過程。 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7231.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7247.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我承諾所以我現在因為因為他的檔案太大了所以我們現在想辦法拉成另外一個硬碟然後讓同讓需要的人去下載而不是線上瀏覽因為那會讓我們的憑光掛掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7251.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7279.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
實際上你最重要要分類啦就是要有日期然後有出來的倉儲跟那個去化廠跟整個數量好不好你目前已經有六天的量了對我們完成就會上去到這個格式你現在上去的是data啦就是還不是information嘛對不對那你就是要分類啊你黨名應該有個日期有個倉儲有個去化廠有個數量我跟委員說明齁我跟委員說明齁我真的沒有辦法依照委員要求的這個黨名因為黨名一改因為黨名跟我們的檔案有分類的邏輯 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7281.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7296.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
但是相對的我們把影片PO上去表示說我們做了這些事情那如果說要根據你的日期倉儲企劃場數量那相對的我所謂的黨名要重改對有日期有倉儲的地點對我相信會讓人家知道還是很困難我們要看什麼叫進一步的分裂啦好不好再來我問你幾個事事實上我們談那麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7310.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7322.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
現在就是整個雞舍包括雞蛋的產量要增加我給大家看一個圖我們在最左邊跟最右邊我們台灣的蛋積每年的產蛋的量最左邊2016年跟最右邊的2022年今年是一樣的一年只生產了187萬顆這代表什麼?兩年沒進步嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7337.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7337.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7357.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7381.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這是產蛋率對啊阿所以表示那個我們那個基色的升級跟那個什麼產蛋確實不夠你看一看人家365天幾乎每天都在生蛋阿我們兩天才生一顆嘛大概51%嘛齁這個要從產量跟那個基色升級去做好不好齁這個我有明確的要求我看一下上一張好不好你給我這兩個資料訂出增加多少勤設升級的改善的年度計劃你這要有個計劃你計劃也沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7383.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7395.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7408.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7433.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
已經來申請了那73場已經開始執行了但是每一個執行都要有一個輔導團隊去協助他所以他不是申請了我們就給所以後續一定有213場會執行所以就是他到底有多少你一年裡面要多少年對我們會提供後續的資訊你就提到這兩點就好了我問一個簡單的問一個簡單的啊上禮拜我給你拿2022年中央市場會日本專案進口那個3081萬顆採購金額2億 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7437.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7439.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7454.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7473.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
因為我個人覺得說除非說法律規定不可以包括那個合約沒有錯第三方不同意但是後來我看了條文如果有適當的理由如果農業部可以認定的時候就可以提供那我就決定會提供因為我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7474.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7484.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們不是因為要隱藏隱埋什麼樣的一個訊息只是因為法律上的規定的見解可能人家不一樣所以我後續的話都會提供給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7485.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7498.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
法定啊齁一個禮拜內給我嗎還是多久可以給你應該可以吧一個禮拜還是要更早一點我跟委員說明齁我上禮拜已經對我現在把它解開但是相對的就是那些我上禮拜就跟他們講了啦其實我對現在人擔心的就是齁他們資料的核對 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7509.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7532.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
如果數字錯掉,那就麻煩了。會讓人家覺得可能是因為誤算的關係,所以我會要求他們那個資料要準確性啦,然後才提供給委員。我盡可能一個禮拜可以給你,如果說沒辦法給你,我們一定會事先跟你講,什麼原因沒有辦法做到。就像影片一樣,我沒有辦法馬上上網嘛,我必須去轉檔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7537.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7559.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那個部長你不用這麼客氣委員要的資料不要在這邊詳細什麼連規格都討論好不好那你們就要運取委員所需要的你們的幕僚要跟委員去討論清楚即使你的網站沒有辦法全部大翻但是委員要的資料還是要給他好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7560.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7561.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
二、本院委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7575.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7588.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案：立法院第12次經濟委員會第12次經濟委員會等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第17條條文修正草案：立法院第18條條文修正草案：立法院議員等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第18條條文修正草案：立法院議員等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第18條條文修正草案：立法院議員等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第19條條文修正草案：立法院議員等19人擬具:「農村再生 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7604.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7622.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
你今天是農業部部長來這邊報告你們應該事先跟他們去拿資料過來才對啊對不對好不好好那就這樣子一個禮拜內要給我們張委員張委員的個性大家都很清楚會繼續追本學會繼續追好謝謝好謝謝部長也謝謝主席謝謝兩個都很故意這樣好接下來我們請鄭天才委員請做巡檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7652.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7653.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
主席、國務委員、有請部長。我們再請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7663.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7689.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
部長好兩位好今天我們審查農村再生條例這個農業部的報告今天的報告也特別提到這個14年來到去年年底也寫了很多的成果既然有很多的成果表示這個條例確實有繼續要執行的必要你的報告裡面也提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7691.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7713.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這個農村再生基金系由國庫撥充看清楚你自己寫的國庫撥充無自有財源基金已將以116年度用完寫得很清楚啊所以因為要用完了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7717.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7740.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
立法院的立法委員主動提案要去協助解決你們的問題也就是解決農民的問題這是應該的這裡面這個基金的總額從1500億因為要116年度就要用完了當然就要去處理就要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7744.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7765.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這個有4500億當然還有另外一個版本這個楊瓊瓔召委的是4500億然後分20年原來的是10年分20年來編列寫得清清楚楚然後基金的農村再生基金的用途也要擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7767.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7789.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
相關的這些土地的利用、農宅生活、生產、生態文化、景觀、空間規劃等等還包括很多農村、農產業、活化各方面的這些都提了非常的詳細。這裡面到底還少了什麼,大家還可以討論。好,重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7795.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7824.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
重點在這邊今天農業部的報告裏面提到本部意見依據財政紀律法第五條第七條之規定類有關所提法律案增加政府稅出須有具體指明彌補資金之來源立法機關制定或修正法律法規不增訂固定 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7826.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7827.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
經費額度或比例保障。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7846.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7875.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好 這個其實剛才你的報告也有提到國庫撥充現行條文也是一樣前項分年編列預算之撥入現在召委的版本我也有連署了這裡面提到農村再生基金之來源如下政府逐年編列預算撥入很明確啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7876.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7905.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
很明確跟財政激勵法毫無抵觸預算怎麼來?寫得很清楚政府逐年編例預算撥入所以這個部分我是30年公務員我以前沒有法律的時候也要去爭取預算不是嗎?要跟主計總署去爭取預算明年是不是能夠再 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7907.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7933.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
公務預算能夠再增加。」所以寫得很清楚政府逐年編例預算撥入基金這個預算來源寫得很清楚所以這個部分要請我們農業部的同仁未來寫的時候要謹慎不要添那個主計你們叫主計處 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7934.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7942.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7960.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7989.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
各位委員說明可能有一點誤解我們一般的計劃計劃通常是四年期計劃那計劃抱怨如果合定的話會逐年編列這是一件事情那今天是在農村再生條例這個法律案裡面去明定一個金額那明定一個金額根據財政紀律法本身因為經費的編列是屬於行政權就是由行政單位來編列然後送行政院同意以後送立法院來審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7990.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8008.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那現在是因為委員的版本直接去名列了所以我們在這邊提出來說就是說因為財政紀律法有這樣的一個問題那至於說財政紀律法裡面的問題是怎麼樣去解釋那可能就是看後面的情況到底是我們只是忠實的去講這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8010.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8038.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
太過忠實了。稍微聽我前面講的。跟一般的法不一樣。跟一般的法不一樣。為什麼呢?因為這個法是現有的法。然後也切實錢要用光了。116要用完了。所以一定要修。不然除非要廢紙。對不對?除非你認為要廢紙。 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8040.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8042.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
因此,本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具、「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8071.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8092.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
立法院就不能再提任何的法律會跟經費有增加,常常會提啊。我們上禮拜內政委會通過了什麼地方民意代表的條例,也是要內政部支付啊,增加很多錢啊,內政部要增加,所以很多的法律都會增加經費。 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8094.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8117.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
都會,所以不是這樣子做解釋的。當然我們這個時間的關係,這個我還是要跟這個部長,昨天立法院院會針對這個公糧收購的價格十三年未調整,昨天立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8120.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8149.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
也通過要進行討論協商所以這個部分這個是對農民有利按照剛才的說法我們連提都不能提所以這個部分它就是事實上是十三年未調整相關的基本工資物價上漲各方面的不斷成長當然我們一樣可以提不能全部都用財政機率收支 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8150.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8162.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
財政紀律法來去作為一個不同意的理由所以這個部分我們共同的請努力好不好要支持可以嗎公務預算政府的預算編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8172.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8174.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8204.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8208.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
謝謝主席,請陳部長我們再請陳部長委員好部長,今天我們針對我們的農村再生計畫提出了一些修正的這個草案那個別委員都有很多的提案那最主要是因為說剛才都提到了農村的這個再生基金即將要用完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8231.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8232.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8261.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8263.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
事由：立法院第11屆第12期經濟委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8291.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8294.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8319.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8338.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
關區是過去的概念現在是全面的以前全國的關區是55萬公頃那31萬公頃是屬於我們的關區非關區有24萬公頃但是你在去年整個涵蓋努力要把它全部打通有農水路的情形只做到5.6萬公頃還有18.4萬公頃都還沒有做這個速度太慢了我要跟委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8344.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8365.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
就是非灌溉的部分有一部分在平地有一部分在波地那波地是沒有辦法做灌溉渠道的所以在波地的部分我們用鼓勵他的蓄水池的興建還有網路灌溉我知道在平地的話是屬於農水路是屬於農水署的那如果在山地的那個農水路的話是屬於水保署的沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8366.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8380.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
所以因為有水池的保持保護的問題我們農水組照樣去支持波地裡面的灌溉用水的水池的興建跟它的蓄水設就是它的灌溉系統的那個管路我們都有去支持而且每戶應該是50萬吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8382.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8384.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8408.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8408.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
案。」議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8431.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8460.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這個要看情況,它是不是符合天然災害救助?對,如果是符合天然災害救助的話,對,就是達到20%我們就會啟動天然災害救助再來就是因為我們台水公司的跟我們農水署購買的水的成本越來越高一公噸大概成本在平均起來加上所有的費用平均起來是4.1元而跟水利署購買的水的成本一公噸只有一塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8462.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8472.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
部長,你有沒有聽懂這個意思?一樣是公務機關,為什麼買水的情形不一樣?這一點的話你們可以做個調整嗎?一樣是公務機關啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8474.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8500.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
而且我們自然水公司他也努力的在各方面的用水部分他也多元的來使用能夠開發更多的水源也減少了我們這個漏水的問題還有舉在比如說他們很多的這些太舊的管線都要太舊換新他們的成本也很高所以本期在這邊希望我們部長能夠重視讓我們的農水署能不能比照水利署的調整原水的單價好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8501.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8527.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這個我想我們會後會去評估那跟委員報告一個重點就是我們農業的部分有一部分是水庫用水那才需要去處理那更有一部分我們是用埤塘用河川所以我們希望說更多的埤塘能夠來做水資源的調度像桃園地區現在水情有點緊張其實對農業用水來講我們覺得自來水公司啦他還是供應給大家的水嘛因為自來水公司也已經負債了 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8528.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8529.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8558.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8578.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
最關鍵的就是因為這個鮮奶的問題那之前在四月份的時候特別有提到這個他們的鮮奶到120度的溫度殺菌之後的話60天的這個期限的話是比較久的在我們台灣的這個酪農的話在競爭之下如果明年他零關稅那影響到我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8579.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8590.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條條文修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8604.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8620.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
改成長效乳已經一個半月快兩個月了都沒有專家會都沒有開這個是有什麼顧忌還是有什麼問題嗎不是我想跟委員說明齁這個長效乳的這個建議民政的建議案我們在4月初已經送到衛福部那邊了齁是那 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8621.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8644.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我會盡快再跟衛務部溝通齁能夠召開一個正式的會議已經快兩個月了盡快你放兩個月了對我知道所以我持續在跟他們溝通剩下半年的時間明年的話他們完全就免關稅囉零關稅囉我相信下禮拜我相信應該會有更明確的做法下禮拜就要有正式的會議好不好沒有我會要求請啊請衛務部因為會議不是我們召開的 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8645.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8665.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以你要去了解什麼原因,他有顧忌什麼嗎?是不是?了解,我會盡可能請他們...不要放到那邊,要去追蹤,已經要兩個月了,你們還沒有追蹤,可是要提醒你們,好不好?而且你們現在特別提出來了29億的農業升級的這個計畫,所以你要特別看看我們這個諾農要怎麼樣讓他們轉型,來輔導他們,好不好?好。那還有一個問題就是,這個台紐喔,這個,不是,這個立陶宛 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8674.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8696.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這個部分我們看到我們的農產品在這邊有開放給他們進口進來那因為那個立陶宛本來在我們這個辦事處從台灣要改成台北現在又放下來了那立陶宛這邊現在正在選舉相信現任的總統可能會連任我們擔心的是未來他如果又跟大陸交好的話對我們這個農產品的進口方面我們農業部會不會適時的做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8702.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8702.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
答案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8722.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8722.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8738.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8766.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
所以有幾個面向,加工的應用、低碳的栽培技術還有一些種源,這個都是我們的強項所以他不會因為他們政治上的一個立場而改變了對我們的合作我們希望不要被改變啦,不要被改變所以部長,你剛剛講的是很多別的科技的技術我想的是牛肉部分,如果他有這種情勢再發生的話我們一定要對我們整個農產品的進口做調整好不好我了解,了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8769.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8773.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
謝謝主席,那我們是有請我們農業部部長。好,我們請陳部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8799.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8815.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
喂吼部長部長針對今天農再條例的一個修正那主要大家是很擔心整個農再基金目前大概剩多少現在到年底應該497億剩497億那如果以這樣的規劃是到116年對我們第四期的預算我們提出來是432億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8825.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8828.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以相對的到116年的時候他基金的餘額應該有5.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8831.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8857.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
所以就是說到116年的時候,就是看起來這個基金就即將要用氣了。所以今天大家去歡樂這,尤其對我們農業縣來說,整個農債基金是撐住讓整個農村可以維持一個還可以的一個面貌。這是非常重要的一個機會支持。所以你們這邊也同意說,未來是不是在持續可以用公務預算, |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8859.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8874.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
邱議瑩等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第12次全體委員會及第十五條條條文修正草案：立法院第12次全體委員會及第十五條條條文修正草案：立法院第12次全體委員會及第 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8883.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8899.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
一起一起的去編然後由行政院同意以後就算未來基金見底了以後他還是可以透過另外一個機制透過行政院同意了以後用公務預算去撥補用這樣的方式還是可以就是撥補基金撥補基金以後這樣的話讓這個基金是可以繼續運作的並不會說這個條文寫一個10年我們現在農發基金也一樣這樣農發基金已經撥完了但是還是不夠每年都需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8908.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8937.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那公務預算也會撥補,農村基金也是這樣子的好,那我們這個是希望因為農村的建設跟這個農災是非常重要的真的是息息相關,這非常重要然後第二個就是我想要跟部長討論一下啦因為我們知道現在內政部這個國土計畫法那看起來說它上路的即將要上路但是國土計畫法它還是有很多需要去檢討的尤其是國土計畫法跟農村發展條例甚至到農村再生條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8938.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8962.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
他們這樣彼此要對接的問題,那在我的選區,像水上鄉,農德村,它就常常有很多是在生條裡面的農地,生條喔,它並不是說在森林,森林就是農田嘛。每一棟都是生條裡面喔,就是四周圍大概都是房子,不然那塊被規劃成農役。 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8966.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8979.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個部長不會覺得這個很奇怪嗎?對,這個的確是有一點奇怪啦。是啊,看起來不少耶。我見到很多人在跟我澄清說,如果你說這個層是一層瓦,那整個都放在地上,明明是一層瓦,旁邊都是柱子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8985.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9004.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我向委員報告就是我們現在看各縣市在編列的從農一到農五的部分有幾個比較異常的部分就是農一跟農二的編列本身的比例的問題那第三個就是有一些可以屬於農三的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9004.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9021.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
他被編成保育、國保去了。那這個部分我們也想辦法去處理。有一些像您剛才講的這個部分也有部分的情形會發生。所以部長我要確認是不是只有農三跟農四、農五他才有可能在農村的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9022.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9023.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
再生條例第二條及第十五條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9042.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9069.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
所以我覺得這需要檢討因為既然在村內大概村莊內還是有村莊內需要的一些景觀阿你現在又把它用成農醫然後他把它限制就是就會有問題就像你剛剛講的例子就是村莊裡面包圍的這些地那是不是可以適度的調整阿不然到時候裡面就變成夾心餅乾阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9070.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9074.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9099.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9103.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
第二條我要跟部長再談一下我們鋪子的肉品市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9104.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9129.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
案。」而農民市場大概從蘇貞昌院長承認說我們佈置這個整個這個屠宰場然後要把它做一個升級然後未來是可以導入HACCP那可以讓它在台灣的地盤可以外銷處理所以這個事情地方很期待但是看起來因為在中間行政程序的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9131.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9152.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
一些討論的過程有拖延到,有拖延到,所以一直到了去年,去年底,我們才拆除,拆除標材出去。那目前興建大概還需要很長的時間,但是我覺得這件事情就變得說一開始在決定太衝刺了,所以說我們一開始就叫 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9154.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9155.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文 |
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9178.39 |
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9199.507 |
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接下來就不補助了,但是你這樣看,你這樣的話,我們如果要那麼晚才拆,是不是很,我們不應該那麼早就叫他們停止營業。我跟各位報告,就是說農村兩年是因為我們規劃大概兩年會新建完整,那如果是因故其他的原因延長的時候,我們會來討論說,是不是針對農會的協助會再延長,這第一件事情。第二點就是說, |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9203.69 |
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9215.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條條文修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9230.705 |
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9230.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9273.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9276.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
接下來我們請楊瓊瓔發言謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言再邀請我們陳部長 |
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9288.296 |
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部長好,第一個議題公糧收購昨天在院會交付經負二讀交付協商我希望本期在做協商的時候能夠得到你的支持就陳文綺所說的我們要全面的照顧我們的農民十三年沒有調漲的公糧沒有理由不漲所有的物價所有的這個生產成本包括農油不一定要訂定搬運工行 |
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9315.131 |
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9317.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
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9340.739 |
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9345.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們希望能夠有一個完美的一個呈現也給全國的國民報告我們的農民我們一定要好好照顧謝謝接下來本期要跟你討論的是我們今天所提案的第七條跟第十五條第十五條是因為我們由農委會現在是農業部所以相關的文字以及相關的單位我們必須要做調整第十五條你們應該認同吧 |
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9367.356 |
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9378.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
第二條,這個應該是認同吧?這個認同。那在第七條是我們今天的重點。本席也提第七條跟第十五條。那第七條裡面,我們從民國101年開始分為四個階段,到116年,總金額是1500億,是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9378.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9378.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
是。 |
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9385.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9389.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
是不是?好,那到116年就沒錢了對不對?預計啦預計預計就沒錢了齁?對好,你一個冷靜的思維為什麼我們要提這個案子?因為我們很緊張我們也希望做農委、農業部的後盾做農民的開先鋒做農民的後盾為什麼要這麼說呢?給部長您冷靜去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9410.313 |
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9422.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
你的條文農村再生條例裡頭你就是多少錢一千五百億如果你這一千五百億這個大框架沒有拿下來你每一天就要跟著乞丐一樣去拜託行政院對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9425.538 |
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9427.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
你這個大框架要不要拿下來1500億我們應該要把1500億在116年這一個條文應該要把1500億拿掉這就是你必須要去思維的第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9440.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9458.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
第二條,我們很緊張,我們怕拜託行政院不支持,那你要回到你的公務預算,你要急你的公務預算。當然你非常誠意,我本席再次請問,農村再生條例到116年,因為這個是本席擔任書記長的時候通過這個法案,那本席要再次請教,116年之後, |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9465.76 |
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9465.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9482.145 |
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9487.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我們為什麼會具體說出數字因為我們很緊張萬一你去拜託沒錢擠到你的公務預算又會擠到其他的預算所以在這樣情況之下你冷靜去思考我們可以調整文字目標也就是116年之後我們要繼續辦而且經費不能少那所以我們願意寫一個也就是說依照政府的這個這個循政府預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9511.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9531.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
去撥款去撥款但是先決條件你必須要把一千五百億這一個部分要拿掉你才有辦法有法源依據去拜託去去編列你的依照你的財政的這個這個次序去要求編列這個預算對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9533.506 |
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9553.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我想非常感謝委員對這個農村再生條例經費的一個支持但是以農業部的立場來講因為在條文裡面如果列了這樣的一個金額就違反了另外一個法律的立法不要列金額嘛本期告訴我也其實他有討論空間剛剛本期在主席台的時候已經宣布了可以把金額拿下來但是你1500億要拿下來也要拿下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9557.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9557.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9572.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9573.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
一、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9592.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9594.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
審查：立法院第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9620.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9639.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
合格候選人可以向農運會申請所屬選區選舉人名冊的會員姓名及戶籍地址資料。農運會提供個人資料是因為申請加入農運會為會員之需要,但是農運會卻沒有經過會員的同意。 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9645.155 |
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9668.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
違反了各自收集的這個目標﹚這個目的﹚所以目前的各自法這個的確是會有危害到所以本席要請教目前你們更邏輯更奇怪的一件事情你們竟然怎麼做呢你們是這個選票法裡頭你說第11條第6項第7這個跟第7項呢你們有說喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9675.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9680.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
是規範農運會應該實施適當的安全措施及候選人應於選舉結束後確實將資料予以銷毀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9705.143 |
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9714.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
你等於破解了你的輔水印啊我哪要知道我自己去抄啊我自己去印啊你們怎麼圍堵啊這是一個喔接下來你抄錄了之後的選舉人名稱引印多少份你會知道嗎你們的人有跟著去嗎你不知道那還有更你沒有辦法去管控啊還有更離譜的你們說選舉結束後你要銷毀誰銷毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9730.979 |
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9736.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
你告訴我,到目前為止執行有誰銷毀啊?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9740.014 |
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9760.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我們沒有追蹤對啊那你這個不是不好意思說啊真的是離譜至極啊撫水印了被破解一個政府的政策撫水印了被破解還有寫了一個白紙寫黑字等到選舉完你要把名冊申請的人申請的人要把名冊消毀誰消毀啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9764.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9770.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
選舉完就完了誰消毀?你知不知道有沒有消毀?有沒有管控啊?有沒有管控?有沒有管控?對啊!你太離譜了嘛!對不對?哪有一個政府做這種事情?選舉欸!他有選罷法我們要依法行事欸!個資法有個資法欸!通通都違法! |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9788.002 |
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9806.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
而且行政部門也沒有管控,哪有這麼離間、這麼離譜?對不對?所以本席具體你也認同這是不對的因為我們知道現在個資保護是高度的重視那麼所以還有現在詐騙很多欸你這些資料如果拿去讓他成為詐騙的人頭目 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9810.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9819.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
你怎麼還給我們民眾啊我資料給你農運會欸你怎麼可以行政部門去做一個讓農運會有機會成為詐騙集團的這個帳號啊該不該打屁股啊怎麼有可能去做這種事情離譜的政策之外還沒有管控誰銷毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9833.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9835.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9850.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9863.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
人民的信賴保護原則,真正以他們的個資保護啊!現在我們所有農委會的會員都很緊張耶!我會不會被印出去直接就拿去賣了一個億一個賬號五千塊!我統統成為詐騙的賬號耶!部長你聽到這你就會嚇到耶! |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9872.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9899.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
太恐怖了欸我想跟委員說明就是其實農會的選舉農業部的立場就是要盡量去確保它的公平這是一個大表決但是以現在的做法的確後面的提供這樣的一個資料書面的就是可以引印出來的資料雖然說有浮水印但是後面的監督銷毀的機制沒有的時候的確會照著委員所說的所以我們會來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9901.109 |
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9913.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
就是在怎麼樣在維持一個公平的一個機制下去檢討他的一個針對這個名冊的閱覽或是什麼樣的一個新的一個規定人們也很恐慌所以本期具體建議你趕快去檢討一週內提出方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9917.162 |
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9940.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
重點在於你草案中允許合格的候選人在一定的規範下得去查閱選舉人名冊這是公平的大家要公平但是不得對選舉人名冊有抄錄有攝影有擬印有聳讀還有錄音或者其他複製或者是保存的行為對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9941.997 |
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9943.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
這個一定不可以的。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9964.502 |
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9969.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
一、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案案案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
9986.577 |
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9990.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
是,如果那個方案很順利的話,這就馬上就預告了。對,完全預告程序,馬上就公告。是。部長,你聽到這個,我真的覺得我們的農民很可憐。到有的資料都這樣公開的,你現在如果詐騙拿來當每一個帳號,你怎麼辦啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10005.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10013.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
農業部去設置一個讓全國農會、漁會成為有可能是詐騙集團帳號的戶頭,這個太恐怖了,所以禁訴好不好?好,禁訴!禁訴!好! |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10022.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10040.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
處理都不對就要改啦 對不對好 我們有達成共識照那個時間一週內拿出你們的修法一個如果程序OK這個內容OK大家就一個月內預告程序完成最後一個議題你那個荔枝春香可以炒來吃嗎你有沒有吃過 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10042.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10067.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
你吃不吃?不吃你農師華可以去叫荔枝去去拿荔枝春香來炒給人家看這是什麼情形啊?這個這個我已經齁這個地形是到底怎麼造出來的?這太離譜了很離譜啦阿你有沒有吃過荔枝春香用炒的?沒有阿可以吃嗎?那個環境教育在環境教育裡面的一個課程但是這個課程也不適當啦對啊阿你有沒有吃過?沒有對啊你覺得吃嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10072.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10072.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10089.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10090.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
刑事委員邱議瑩等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10127.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10130.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
主席有請農業部陳部長我們再請陳部長這個主要針對委員的提案這提案內我看主要集中在第七條的部分就是說這個基金的編列那金融市都 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10149.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10178.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
我看那些提案很奇怪,應設置農村再生基金。農村再生基金不是已經收設置了嗎?110就宣布了啊,就設置對不對?這應該是改成,如果要真的要推動的話應該是應增加對不對?應增加嘛齁?對。那你這個金額不管3600億分10年編列,或者是4500億分20年編列,你如果按照相關的財政紀律, |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10179.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10204.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
法相論規定法律案要徵出你要具體彌補的財源在哪裡?這不是你的提案對不對?法院提案它是立法機關制定或修正法規不能徵定固定經費額度或比率的保障對不對?那你這個部分會不會自然難行?如果通過第七條不管是誰的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10206.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10230.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
如果真的是在立法院通過會不會自然難行?我想因為他本身立法已經產生紀律法已經規定了如果這樣定是違法的嘛所以通過了以後那個就等於我們行政單位是沒辦法做因為整個預算的編列是由行政由農業部向行政院申請和定以後處理就違反財政紀律法嘛你不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10230.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10236.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
定特別額度,也不能定特別的比率嘛,對不對?那你的第七條是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10238.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10261.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
對,以農業部理事長,我們沒辦法支持這樣子直接明定。你可以用折中的方案,比方說你用這個中長期計畫。是。你在過去的這個1500億,大概什麼時候會用完?大概116年。對。那你有沒有所謂,那是一期、二期、三期、四期是不是?第四期,對。第四期用完大概就沒有錢了。大概還有5.5億。還有5.5億。是。那你有沒有第五期? |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10265.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10293.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
沒有,那我們以農業部里長我們還會繼續推但是雖然說基金你如果繼續推你就不能用現在這個方式用第七條的方式嘛對不對是那因為你要先找到裁員嘛對對不對好,你知道沒有辦法用這個原來的方式在過去2010年我們這個制定這個法院的時候的那時候的背景所以你可以用中長期計畫向行政院爭取經費啊對或者用公務預算來支援而不是用基金嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10294.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10298.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會第12條及第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10314.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10317.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10333.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10334.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
條例第二條及第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10349.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10369.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
這個其實我們已經在做了,那委員的版本其實更明確的把這個全國性的農村整體計畫縣市到鄉鎮的齁,這個串在一起的話,其實是好事。農村再生是好的,增加更多的元素,增加更多的方式。 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10369.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10387.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
所以這個部分你也樂觀其成,但是你要趕快落實,你就今天通過之後,如果這個合同通過之後,我希望你能夠趕快啟動相關的作業。會,一定會的。那另外我問一下,這個第五期之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10389.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10416.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
第五期之後,你們預計,第五期大概就沒有錢,第五期在11、7年到120年度,那大概你就沒有預算了嘛,那你們預估針對第五期一定要繼續再做,對不對?你不能再用基金了嘛,基金已經用完了,你繼續用中長期計畫,你預估大概要變多少錢?我們以現在過去3到5年,我們對農村的支持大概一年到100億左右,100億上下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10417.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10421.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
以這樣的一個額度,四年大概是400億的額度。對,第三期也是400多億,第一期比較少,第一期是剛剛開始以人力培育為主,大概是287億 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10438.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10440.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10460.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10473.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
有些目標值包括這個有六項你也知道嘛我就不詳述了那有些是成績一年不如一年創造機會第三期的時候才是第二期的這個一半不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10475.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10475.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
疫情的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10495.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10515.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
理解,我可以說明,像這個指標其實只是低層的,我們更希望說他創造就業機會,那後面的就業機會帶出來的經濟效益是什麼?其實也要更具體的描述,這個我有請我們同仁針對這個部分,層下的部分應該更具體。對對對,好,這希望你們改善,另外我請這個岳屬也來,這個張署長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10517.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10535.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
有關於綠色和平針對台灣遠洋一夜的部分,他的一些影片或者他的一些說法對台灣的遠洋一夜是非常不公平的。我們很多與會也表達抗議。除了請他們下架之外,他們下架有下架嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10537.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10552.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
對,跟委員報告,到目前為止還沒有?還沒有下架,你們要有積極的動作,因為啊,這個臺灣確實是被美國兩度被列入強迫勞動清單,但是我們已經做了很大的改善,對不對?但是有改善不能被恣意的抹黑啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10553.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10575.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
所以我希望說這個部分根本就不是台灣的漁船嘛然後這些這個很多影片的內容都是這個中國的無良漁船所做的肆意的連結所以你現在既然沒有辦法讓他下架那有沒有可能協助相關的漁會甚至用法律的手段呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10576.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10576.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
答案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10601.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10629.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
他如果綠色白瓶如果這樣子的打壓抹黑台灣的遠洋漁業他綠色白瓶也是在台灣一個組織啊那如果他日後的這個組織募款是對台灣的遠洋漁業不利的話那是不是也要有進一步的管制做人呢是NGO組織其實他有他的使命但是他不能用這樣肆意抹黑的方法去影響一個產業那我覺得我們必須把這個事實向外面來陳述他已經影響我們產業的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10630.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10655.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那你必須要有這個行政部門要拿出你們的管制或者約束或者警示說你這樣的做法已經傷害了我們園養業那你如果再不改善那我們用相關的做法除了用法律訴訟之外我會針對你的這個募款做一些的限制或管控這個你們應該去做是相關的方法跟策略我們整體來研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10657.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10680.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
另外洛農,洛農我還是覺得那天質詢之後你們有去洛農做一個相關的相關的輔導這部分我希望說地方關注幾個重點我想這個洛農部分這個薰牧師也有去嘛你洛農輔導的中層計畫這部分的進度跟內容要跟洛農做相關的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10682.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10703.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
對,我跟委員說明齁,就是若龍的計畫現在已經合訂了齁,但是合訂的經費並不是我們原來提的29億,那有一部分我們會繼續去爭取,大概18億左右,但是有一部分是針對那個整個前段的這些除料的部分, |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10705.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10709.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我們會再去跟行政院去勝負。對,我們一定會往這個目標來做。是,了解。這個絕對沒問題。沒有問題。因為預算一共。 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10727.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10730.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第二條及第十五條條文修正草案案》案 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10767.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10768.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我們休息三分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10962.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10962.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10984.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10996.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
委員好部長好今天來談這個推動農村再生的相關問題這個省這個條例那本席想就我們這個農村再生 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10998.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11004.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11028.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11045.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們中央農村再生到底只是想要消耗預算還是你真的要輔導農村再生你就回答這個問題選擇題我們一定是輔導農村再生為目標對為目標嘛那第一個現在很多農村人口老化問題你怎麼你怎麼去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11046.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11064.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
現在很多他想要農村再生但是他就是人口老化他沒有這個年輕人或投入者這個比較有困難這第一個你等一下整體回覆如果沒有時間不夠請提供書面第二個行政核銷問題太過 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11067.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11091.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
原格,本席舉例,這個農村再生的過程比如說我們有共餐或者是有要用餐具那我現在跟餐廳借餐具租餐具沒有辦法合銷因為你們規定和這個對方開的發票他一定要是租賃業者那餐廳又不是租賃業者可是我真的跟餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11092.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11093.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
租借條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11107.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11128.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
所以這一塊我要反映出來但除了這個還有很多包括師資他找師資的時候有時候核銷也有各種我想你們要去了解很多這個核銷的問題跟困難包含驗收後面還有很多維護年限的問題再來第三個就是傳承與推動農村再生需要長時間的推動那經驗的傳承我們發現很多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11135.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11152.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
有經驗的不一定願意傳承那真心想推動的他又問不到所以再來就是很多就是跟在地的業者所以變成有業者願意做才來做但是他不一定是真的符合我們的農村的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11153.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11166.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以本席一開始問的你農村再生你是為了農村再生我不是為了消耗預算我也不是為了迎合業者好再來第四個輔導員的問題很明顯的很多鄉村跟我說輔導員都不明確指導鄉親去請教我們的輔導員竟然說你去問其他人 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11175.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11201.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那請問要輔導員做什麼?這一些問題都是我們要推動農村再生很困難的所以本席建議我們農村再生計畫一定要設立單一窗口來輔導而且你能夠簡化流程再來怎麼樣來解決人力的問題提高這些社區的提案意願那這個部分部長你可以承諾嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11202.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11227.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我想剛才委員幾個問題我非常簡單的回答齁就第一個就是老化的問題我們希望引領青年回來那青年回來一定背後要有個支持系統沒有支持系統他只是在農村做工作我覺得他很容易再流失所以那個支持系統在我們下一次的施政的報告我們會把它提出來那第二個部分就是有關於行政效率的核效的部分齁我們也會重新檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11228.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11229.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
一、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11249.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11270.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
所以用相互的觀摩去彌補這個區塊未來我們會有更好的系統那第四個是輔導員的部分那其實農村再生裡面我們花了非常多的人力的培育其中有一個區塊就在輔導員所以啊那為什麼輔導員都不輔導所以這個部分我想我們一定要去加強那做不好真的要打屁股啦因為輔導員是最重要的核心 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11271.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11298.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
所以您最後一個問題是單一的窗口我們現在基本上有一些單一的窗口但是可能單一的窗口還是比較細啦也許我們會看看看怎麼來解決這些問題因為有些是縣市政府的部分嘛有些是中央的部分我們看怎麼樣去做整併或做連結讓它的行政效率會變快一點本席很開心部長有了解而且也知道有一些執行上的困難最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11300.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11315.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
針對今天審的第七條我們1500億的基金即將用完有很多委員提出撥補的修法那農業部的意見到底是什麼?你們到底贊不贊成委員提案撥補基金的修法方向? |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11316.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11331.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我想基金很明確的在116年會見底但是我們現在有一個機制是可以再去請證相關的經費但是因為委員所提的版本它違反了財政紀律法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11333.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11355.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
以農業部的立場我們沒辦法支持直接在上面寫明多少金額。因為我們看國發會是沒意見但主計總署反對所以你們是針對委員版本可能不適合但是你們覺得也是要看怎麼找財源來撥補你們的意見是這樣嗎?國外沒有反對是國外是支持我們的立場而不是說他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11356.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11361.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第二條及第十五條條文修正草案 案 及第十五條條文修正草案 案 及第十五條條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11375.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11398.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
新修正的這些條裡面還有國土計畫如果一一四年四月落地開始實施以後他會有一個對接像委員裡面提到的一些全國性的部分是整體的然後縣市的部分他會根據國土計畫裡面的分區的功能去做相關的對應的處理我們有一個對應的配套的一個作為在後續所以那你依據哪一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11399.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11425.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
同樣的,我們還是依據現有的,都要這個15條第一項的部分也本來就...15條原本沒有第一項吧?對,然後現在...那現在新增?沒有,現在可以執行,只是委員的版本是讓它更文字化,那更文字化的話以後的依據會更明確。所以你們是認同的?對,我們認同它的那個修正的這些條文,讓它更明確。好,好,了解。好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11430.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11446.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
接下來我們請洪孟楷委員請做詢答謝謝主席謝謝麻煩請農業部長我們再請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11456.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11471.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
部長,我知道幾位委員也都有針對荔枝春相的議題來跟你就教。你也講到說要深刻檢討。但我真的很懷疑,農業部這已經不是第一次發生創意食材的爭議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11472.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11472.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11489.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11504.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我當然也說實在話啦我覺得公務員有創意其實本席開周明義長公務員有創意我覺得孟承祐上不是壞事為什麼因為我們要鼓勵大家要做事過去的文化是說多做多錯少做少錯啊不做不錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11505.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11526.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
所以我乾脆我就不要去做我就沒有錯不會被變成新聞焦點當然今天的一個爭議是在於是說明明不是一個可食用的食材你變成是一個食用那引發爭議跟衛福部這邊所以未來如果說要推廣任何的一個活動有可能跨部會要先做討論這點你同意嗎我跟委員說明齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11527.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11546.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
就是以現在目前的研究單位他們在開發相關的食材他們會搜尋對現在目前衛福部是不是可用食材但是國外已經開始是一個可用食材所以他們覺得說有機會在國內變成可用食材他們就開始研發了所以現在是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11548.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11550.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
修正草案案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11569.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11596.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我們大概半年會有一個把我們開發的這些相關的可能的項目目前沒有列到可用食材的話我們會提給他然後看他們的意見然後開始我們會準備相關的資料因為有些資料需要獨立試驗我們就會去啟動這方面的研究所以部長講到一個新點喔所以你是接下來要請衛福部認定荔枝村巷它是可用食材沒有 這個要看 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11597.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11613.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
本身的可用食材是可被消費者接受的。這個接受不是口味的接受,還有觀念的接受。觀感的接受,還有這個大家的飲食文化的接受。對,這個非常重要,如果不符合我們的飲食的話,我們絕對不能推。是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11614.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11623.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文修正草案：楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11642.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11662.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那結果沒有符合相關法規這一個部長我其實要問的其實是後面更重要的問題為什麼要去推廣油炸荔枝春夏是不是因為荔枝春夏它就是某種程度上有危害到我們現在的一個環境跟生活我跟委員說明在實際的狀況是它是在一個環境教育的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11663.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11679.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那因為環境教育的課程他只是去展示可能在其他的國家是可以用的他只是在那邊去做一個示範並沒有說去做到推廣的這個動作部長但是我們現在在講的是荔枝村上他是近年來新興的入侵外來走 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11680.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11702.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
然後他也對於中南部來說對於荔枝或是龍眼都造成嚴重的危害甚至本席的選區淡水地區也有民眾講說他現在不是在果樹上發現他是在一般的田間一般的民間走路散步的時候發現無患者的樹枝上面就會有三到五枝的荔枝村下 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11704.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11709.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院議員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11734.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11757.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
除了用農藥除了用其他的這個生態平衡來講有沒有其他可能可以抑制這個外來種害蟲的一個方式那我現在要問的其實比較更直接就是說那對於荔枝春象在各縣市越來越多了那造成我們民眾的一個生活或說有疑慮也有講到荔枝春象他的毒液他的這個汁液會有毒會造成皮膚的潰爛 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11759.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11785.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那我們現在有沒有中央明確的規定跟方式?我跟委員報告齁,就是第12屆的防治現在最大的盲點就是他並沒有啟動區域的防治,而是個別的防治。那這個區域防治不只是在農業區喔,農業區要有區域防治,現在有很多休閒的步道有沒有,也會發生到旁邊的樹木會掉到一些那個,所以我一直認為,就是其實我幾年前就開始一直在 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11785.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11801.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
在臺東市在農事所的時候我一直推他的共同房子除了農業部門也要跟交通部門對一起來做共同的房子這樣的話才能夠把那個密度往下降沒錯這個是我想後續我們也會繼續努力的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11801.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11830.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
所以現在才講啊因為各縣市政府他可能也有這個局處之間的一個協調是不是只是農業局的問題嗎他可能觀光局、交通局等相關的局處那但是對於上位等於中央主管機關我們農業部怎麼樣可以給各縣市政府有一個清楚明白的指引讓各縣市政府能夠跨局處來去做一個統一這個農業部是不是應該要動作我覺得有一部分是農業部的責任我們應該把這些防範的指引要寫清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11831.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11849.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
然後因為跨部門、跨局處的部分可能會依據不同的地方政府的局處之間的一個溝通平台。那我想我們農業部應該會跟主要的縣市去討論一個公共方式的。現在比較氾濫的荔枝村鄉哪幾個縣市?除了湯南部? |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11850.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11877.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
新北市算不算?高屏江南以外那新北市還有中張頭這邊都有其實大部分的縣市都有而且像都會區的話可能都在步道有沒有步道反而會多就是本期的選區也有民眾在臉書社團之後貼文說他們去走散步的步道在樹上發現荔枝春夏那也提醒說大家要小心避免說被皮膚遭受到它的滋液那 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11878.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11893.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
案 本席比較具體的建議,部長是不是應該找幾個你現在已經掌握比較現實嚴重的現實來討論並且有一個比較清楚明白的質疑來去做防治?可以,這個我們可以做得到多久做到?一個月內? |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11893.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11910.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
一個月之內我們一定會跟第一個我會先跟交通部的觀光局那邊去做因為那個跟交通有關的完了以後才會召集主要的如果是都會區的話就是以交通部觀光局為主他絕對不是只是叫民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11911.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11914.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11927.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11928.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
事由：審查：事由：審查： |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11949.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
11970.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
反濫的這些縣市來去做一個討論該專業的投藥還是專業的驅蟲還是用生態平衡方式也有人講是說有其他的一物剋一物嘛荔枝村上他們可能怕的是其他的一個蟲那怎麼樣能夠用生物防治的部分生物防治來達到生態平衡這一些要請農業部定出質疑一個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
11971.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
11972.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12期經濟委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12000.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12002.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12027.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12047.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
有了道熱病,然後我也請我們相關的單位下去看。然後我當時我就要求要全面啟動水稻收入保險理賠。因為我們有這個強制水稻保險之後,我們是把它排除在整個災害救助的一個範圍之外。對不對?好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12049.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12068.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
那現在我們去現場看完之後我想我我之後又跟署長說好就是說這個問題非常大我到現場一看我看到我們農感產和我們的分屬給我這份資料說我們所有的基準產量 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12070.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12098.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
各區的基準產量,我們是用這個基準產量來作為我們是不是理賠的一個標準,也就是我們今年我們的產量要跟這個基準產量去比,如果少於兩成才可以理賠。不然我告訴你,這張我今天還不是在選對的人,我今天一看都知道這根本無法理賠, |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12100.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12102.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
一、本院委員楊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12118.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12118.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12140.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12144.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第13條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12156.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12172.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我講第一個齁就是當推動水稻收入保險的時候那基本上一定會有一個產量的基準值嘛這個基準值唯一現在目前的一個有公告的數據就是過農情調查裡面的水稻的產量 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12173.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12198.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那這個水稻產量用五年的平均去頭去尾的平均它就是一個一個值在那邊部長你是聽到我說嗎對啊你五年的平均去頭去尾一年後一年賣啊連續都有兩年三年賣啊你整個平均數就拉低了啊你去頭去尾有什麼用沒有去頭去尾也會把高的去掉也會把低的去掉啊沒錯啊可是我平均就是拍你當一間古老攤啊你給我去頭去尾有什麼用沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12201.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12219.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
去頭去尾在統計的標準裡面他是一個合理的一個數值。部長我已經說你在這五年當中已經就是有三年至四年本身就是敗了你去頭去尾只是把這個標準頭跟尾去掉可是我中間的三年我還是不好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12221.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12243.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我還是不好啊,你不好當中,你在這你要不要去看一下,你們的,你們署裡面有沒有給你看這個資料,你要不要看一下,在這裡,你看一下,你的數字,這裡面的數字都過低,都過低,這一拿出來,我一看說,啊靠這假啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12244.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12252.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12266.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12276.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
都是盜熱病都空炮彈全部都淪陷了我現在就看今年有沒有辦法拿到補助我跟委員說明農業保險不是保險就想要拿到這個保險費它是一個風險的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12282.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12295.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
他如果降低到百分之二十﹑少於兩成啊!兩成啊!少於兩成啊!他現在你的基準量就過低了他怎麼少於兩成啊!他的基準量就過低了!過去的平均就是過低那表示說他過去的產量就在那邊了所以他要比過去的產量更低到百分之二十啊部長你這麼講 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12312.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12337.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
你做代理保證的行政到現在要行政護理控保證之後你講話才完全不一樣啊!你完全不一樣啊!這是不一樣的!你應該去瞭解!這不是專業判斷!這是根本就是保險公司錢都客氣了!所以真的能夠拿到...所以現在所有的農民說這樣我不愛啊!我不要強制被水到保險!我敢問你! |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12339.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12349.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案案：立法院第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12368.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12375.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
而且現在是極端期齁!部長你知不知你的農街長跟人家說,你就趕快噴油啊!你在講會議嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12379.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12382.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12406.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12421.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
你有沒有地方去看?我跟楊瓊瓔說道德病本身的發生,有些品種比較抗病,然後另外就是說我們現在的道德病有一些預警的一個機制,然後我們也希望啟動區域的一個防治的作為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12424.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12449.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
所以相對的回到今天討論的主題就是他如果產量過低的時候我們會在評割點的部分就是產量調達的部分在那個區塊去增加那個評割點這樣子的話他產量低的時候他就可以有百分比有百分之二十的機會就是減產的時候就能夠得到理賠這是一個比較專業的所以我都尊重專業的這些改良廠去判斷的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12450.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12459.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我剛剛已經跟你講了改良場都可以講這種話了講說啊你就看金朋友啊那你跟我講說他會用什麼專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12461.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12488.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
他的專業就是叫人家擬本院啊我告訴你農民農民不可以管理嘛農民可以管理是你今天你提起的變化對他們來說那個阿明已經做成了他已經不服了所以你今天說增加平割點我接受就是他的產量因為現在已經受到影響了增加平割點在各區增加他的平割點這個我接受那要加到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12490.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12516.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
這個我想由他們沒有 這個要由他們專業來判斷那個區域的你不要再說專業了嘛我剛剛就講了農幹長都開始講這種話了我會相信專業我是說你一定要有一個標準因為這個問題不是今天發生未來你沒有在今天定了一個標準定了一個狀態未來每年都會發生啊農民會對我們的強制稻米的保險會沒有信心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12518.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12531.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
明明是我們政府好意,結果現在你知不知幾個地方說,我沒來沒來,你一天後啊,我沒來啊。重點是政府直接補助保險公司一十六個啊,不是補助給農民啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12533.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12554.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
你知道嗎?好意變成今天變這個樣子欸!我非常謝謝委員的這些建議齁那我剛才說的齁產量的基準目前是沒辦法去動它的齁因為我不可能看到問題再去動這個產量的基準那產量的基準要用幾年或者是去頭去尾這個部分部長我給你一個第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12556.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12569.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
現在因為這件事情發生當然我們不能去動前面的彩蛋因為這個是一個制度好來現階段今年發生了我們增加評格點對不對是對增加評格點 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12570.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12571.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12590.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12598.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以表示我們現在的制度是有狀況的 是有問題的 我們要重新檢討你如果要繼續走下去 我跟你說 農民都批評了啦 農民說這樣我不喜歡我不要你強制給我水稻保險 你乾脆給我回歸到我的理賠機制嘛你給我我的災害救助嘛 會有這個狀況欸欸今天我們去回家沒時間 我告訴你 這個已經是台南全面囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12617.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12622.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
沒有全面特定的地區,我們了解的是特定地區我告訴你啦,現在就是幾個地方新市、後壁、關田、新營、下營、柳營這幾個地方這個地方後續還會陸續出來喔這個都是主要的產區喔主要的產區都已經發生問題了,你說沒轉名 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12645.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12662.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
你活在自己的世界嗎?我絕對不是齁因為相關的剛才說道德病他是有一些特定的品種他發生的頻度會比較高那有一些品種他發生但是發生的頻度比較低那你如果去看他的確是有道德病但是道德病的影響程度是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12665.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12685.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這幾個地方都是我們去調查的我們親自去調查的這幾個地方已經發生了盜熱病已經發生了空炮彈然後我剛剛所講的部長麻煩就是增加平割點在各區增加平割點讓他整個的實質的產量可以適時呈現 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12686.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12701.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這個很重要第二個要重新檢討所有水稻收入保險理賠的機制這個機制是有問題的你用這所謂的過去五年的產量然後用今年產量去比較這是有問題的那根本沒領到一張名單讓你理賠到啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12706.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12711.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
這個拜託一定要檢討一個月!我不管啦!就一個月啦!怎麼辦多久?好!多久?好!那多久?多久?好!三個月! |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12721.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12725.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具 «農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12748.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12748.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12760.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12785.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
其實部長因為現在軟化的問題包括我們待會要實施這個討論的第七條裡頭那一些項目你也請你們幕僚再去盤點一下因為現在軟化的問題產生出來的並不一樣的形態不一樣我們好不容易去通過保險制度這個是我們大家藍綠白搭奮鬥有成 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12787.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12809.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那如果我們奮鬥出來的條文是沒有辦法讓民眾拿到,那這個就很難過。對,沒有意義。所以你們跟保險公司可能還要去討論它的項目類別是什麼。要不然我明明我都想不到,我又保養又沒有,我一陣子要做什麼。這個可能陳理委員的重點是在這裡,所以趕快去盤點。謝謝。接下來我們請陳冠廷委員請做詢問。 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12819.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12822.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
我們中午就剛剛說過不休息謝謝主席麻煩請部長我們再請陳部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12836.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12851.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
部長好,我們今天來談一下這個農村再生基金的總額提高的部分。那我想依照這個財政紀律法的規定,法律案如果要增加政府的稅出,我們要具體的指明彌補資金的來源。 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12854.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12872.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我來自農業縣,所以我是很認同說農村再生基金是必須要提高的因為我們大家都知道說許多農村的這些房舍老舊需要翻新等等那整個狀況那是迫在眉睫的那我根據今天的報告農村再生基金的餘額是497億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12874.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12897.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
草案：立法院的同仁們不管是藍綠草野都認為這個不足以用來翻新重建老舊的農村所以我們才會提案要修法那有些委員主張是從法定基金的1500億提高到3600億有些委員主張到4500億那不管是3600億或者是4500億我都覺得對農村的幫助是非常大的那我想要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12898.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12917.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
如果說我們先從最基礎的提高到3600億跟法定的1500億元大概有相差2000多億如果分20年做編列預算的話那每年大概是增加105億元的概念這個財源農業部找不到嗎做不到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12920.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12936.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我想委員版本所提到的其實我也非常謝謝委員就是擔心這個農村再生在推動的時候經會沒辦法持續啦然後有設計了這樣的一個版本以現在農業部如果說用這樣的方式因為委員的版本裡面有明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12937.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
12938.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
12967.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
12971.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我相信行政院應該也可以去接受而且我們會用最大的力量去爭取行政院的一個經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
12987.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
12987.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13009.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13009.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13031.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13047.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
他必須要包括我們一起來思考整體就是說農村再生條例裡面本身也要來講因為不只是預算的部分法條的部分兩個都要共同進去思考我們不能夠我覺得我們的立法委員提出3600億、4500億或是等等不同的金額的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13048.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13063.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我們提出來的這個原因跟他這個背景的立場我們要先想清楚我們才會好去執行那既然是由行政院我們現在講行政立法來分級沒關係我們講行政院你剛剛提到說財政紀律那一百零五億這個是做不到的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13065.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13080.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我個人覺得就是說我們如果把這個計畫書的相關的成果跟我們要做的提到行政院應該可以得到行政院的支持那行政院支持完了以後主席總處那邊就會去找相關的財源來合撥給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13081.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13090.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
那我想這也是我們所有草原的立法委員大概提出這樣的法案的背景跟理由。這個源頭很重要。再麻煩我們這個所有的與會的這個過去農委會我們的所有的官員要一起來想想看。當然我們剛剛講到的法條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13105.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13108.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
這個法制上面來講就是有些就是已經過世有些是因為財產的產權的問題這個必須由農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13113.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13141.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
全面來去思考一下怎麼樣來解決這個問題不然我看到很多都是直接荒廢在那邊十年前是這樣五年前是這樣今年去還是這樣我不希望未來的五年十年還都一樣我跟委員說明像特別農村社區的確有一些產權一些比較多的產權人然後有一些糾紛的部分後續我想我們會針對農村的整個空間的一個規劃去做適度的一個界定包括一些土地的一個界定跟農地的界定 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13141.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13169.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
這個部分我想不一定要全部納在法的條文裡面在後面的執行的細節我們可以去做相關的這些處理如果說可以不動到法就能夠處理的話那當然是更好啦因為很多農村的那個地級啦地級的這些東西可能會牽涉到內政部所以我們也會跟內政部去做共同的討論還有一些產權的部分還有一些最主要是我們農業部有一個農村的整體規劃的話我們就可以說服內政部啦所以相對的我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13169.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13181.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
農業部還是一個組織單位,我們會盡可能的去做這樣的一個思考。好,那再幫忙部長,這一個是很重要,因為我看閒置在那邊還是不好的。好,謝謝。謝謝。好,謝謝。我們請鍾嘉斌委員,鍾嘉斌、鍾嘉斌委員不在現場,我們請游浩委員請做詢問。 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13210.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13210.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
綜合國際部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13219.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13220.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
事務局副部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13249.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13276.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
之前我們集體的政務代表陳榮生代表有提到這個封農的部分天災救助的部分因為其實在南投農業縣其實產蜂蜜的地方其實都蠻多的但是因為天然的這個氣候變遷那包括在這次包括荔枝、龍眼它這個讓我們封農他們這個蜜的這種產出啊產量那是比以前以往銳減許多那其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13277.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13295.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
現在目前來講南投縣我們當時也曾經多次的也跟農委會這邊提出希望能夠盡快能夠納入在這個農業天然災害救助辦法內那在本席今天也希望能夠藉著這個機會在520前還能夠請部長是不是可以正面來回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13295.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13311.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那在這個蜂農的這個部分補助是不是有機會可以在這個五月以前那來協助我們的蜂農來納入這個天然災害的一個救助那請部長能夠正面回應我跟委員說明就是說過往我們的蜂 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13311.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13316.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13336.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13357.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那過往我們是用產業救助的部分我個人認為產業救助只是一時的所以我們經過內部討論也確定把因為蜜源不足而產生蜜蜂沒辦法產生足夠的蜂蜜的時候給予天然災害救助這第一點第二點就是這樣子的一個辦法我們已經修訂了應該是今天完成預告 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13359.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13359.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13376.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13390.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
今年度本身因為蜂蜜的部分所以這個部分我想包括我們的救助的這些補助的金額都有跟我們相關的蜂蜜協會大家討論是一個大家可以接受的一個額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13391.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13391.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13408.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13424.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
這次來講就是農業部動植物防疫檢驗所友善環境植物保護資產推廣計畫他的這個補助的部分那一般來講的話像以前其實他的補助的金額在111年的時候他其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13425.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13431.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13451.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13477.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
用生物資材本身的這些費用我們是鼓勵的啦那現在在去年度的話他原預算大概七千多萬後來因為預算的一些不足我們在年中的時候有一個追加預算去再去預注一些經費那今年度他的邊的經費大概跟去年額度原來的額度差不了多少那的確明顯的不夠啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13478.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13505.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
所以我後續會再看看它實際的狀況然後看看有沒有其他的經費是可以把它移到這邊來去做預注的這請問到經費的問題其實目前來講的話跟之前以往來講就發現去年是嚴重不足所以才補過來嘛那所以本系也希望說能夠比照去年一樣今年其實已經預期不足了那是不是盡力的來協助來補這個不足的部分對我想我們會盡力因為我們的很多預算齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13506.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13521.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
都是合定了以後再去處理的。那我們會盡努力的而不是每年在那邊找經費來挪來挪去。我想我們會讓這件事情的重要性讓行政院知道我們以後抱怨的經費的時候可以有所增加。 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13528.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13530.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
事由：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13544.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13560.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我們中午不休息,延長開會時間。登記發言的委員除了不在場之外其余均已發言完畢,我們詢答結束。我們由陳昌明委員、莊嘉斌委員所提出的質詢列入公報刊 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13561.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13579.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
列入紀錄刊登公報：那書面質詢以及未及答覆的部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會。那我們現在進行審查《農村再生條例第二條第七條第十五條條文修正草案》現在進行廣泛討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13581.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13602.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
沒有人登記我們請議事組人員宣讀所有條文宣讀完畢之後我們再進行協商請宣讀。農村再生條例委員張嘉郡等人提案第二條本條例所稱主管機關在中央為農業部在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13602.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13619.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
第七條除第一項修正為中央主管機關為推動農村永續發展及活化再生相關事項應設置農村再生基金新台幣3600億元並於本條例修正後十年內分年編列預算,其餘維持現行法條文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13620.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13645.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
委員邱議瑩等人提案。第七條第一項中央主管機關為推動農村永續發展及活化再生相關事項應設置農村再生基金新台幣4500億元並於本條例修正後20年內分年編列預算第二項第一款政府逐年編列預算至撥入第二款至第四款維持現行法條文第三項第一款維持現行法條文第二款 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13646.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13653.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
辦理農村活化再生之政策方針、全國農村再生總體計劃之擬定、審核執行等支出。 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13654.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13677.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
第三款,辦理直轄市縣市農村再生總體計劃、年度農村再生執行計劃及農村再生發展區計劃擬定、審核與其土地利用、農宅生活生產、生態、文化及景觀空間規劃配置、整建獎勵措施等支出。第四款,辦理農村農產業活化及其 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13678.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13700.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
條式轉型措施之規劃執行、場域建置等支出。憲刑法第三款至第九款一列至第五款至第十一款。第十五條中央主管機關因應農村再生政策方針就國土計劃、土地民智利用原則並因應氣候變遷及農村永續發展,擬定全國農村再生總體計劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13702.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13720.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
指辖市或縣市主管機關應依全國及該縣市農村再生總體計畫之指導原則並就維護農業生產環境與農村景觀改善農村整體居住空間及環境引進農村轉型發展事業之需要依土地使用性質 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13721.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13734.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
理定農村再生發展區計畫指定實施地區及範圍進行分區規劃及配置公共設施為維護農業生產環境之完整及農村居住需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13735.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13761.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
有擴大既有農村建築用地需求者,得並同前項計畫擬定或通盤檢討處理。」委員楊瓊瓔等人提案第七條第一項,中央主管機關為推動農村永續發展及活化再生相關事項,應設置農村再生基金新台幣4500億元,並於本條例修正後20年內分年編列預算。第二項及第三項,同委員邱議瑩等人提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13762.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13786.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
第十五條同委員邱議瑩等人提案,宣讀完畢。好,那我們現在進行協商吼,我們先看農村再生條例第二條,行政部門,張嘉郡委員等19人所提行這個農村再生條例第二條,行政部門來,請上,來請上說一下,來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13791.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13819.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
第二條同意。好,那各位同仁我們這個就依照張嘉俊委員的版本通過。來接下來我們第七條。第七條我想先請這個那個主席總書有來嗎?來你要不要先上來說明一下。還是那個各位同仁我們先請行政部門說明一下剛剛我有特別請農業部你們去討論這個方案有沒有文字內容出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13820.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13845.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
我們現在因為文字的內容本身齁因為行政部門本身包括的經費來源可能還要再跟組董討論那我們內部可能還要有一些時間去協商沒有辦法在今天馬上就有一個很明確的而且能夠達到委員會的一個目的那你先請那個主席總書請說明一下來是主席各位委員各位先進大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13848.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13858.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
財政紀律法的第七條裡頭的確是有明定各級政府及立法機關在制定或修正法律的時候不得增訂固定的經費。 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13865.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
13890.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
不得增訂固定經費的額度或者是比率來保障,以免影響政府統籌運用資源的能力。」那這一次各個委員提案的版本會有去涉及提高固定經費額度這個部分,會使得政府資源的配置比較僵固,影響到政府彈性運用資源這個能力。而且目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
13892.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
13920.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
農村再生計劃每一年我們都是會依照行政院合定的計劃然後滾動的檢討它的執行方式跟經費需求每年都會據於編列預算來執行對於農村再生的業務也會給予支持那大家關心說如果基金用完的時候呢政府也會是這個基金的財務狀況來給予經費上的協助所以這個部分我們建議還是維持現行的條文以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
13921.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
13933.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
主席總署在委員還沒有提出的時候主席總署這邊有一個思考因為我們的農村再生條例通過的時候是以1500億的總額有匡列在那裡如果說因為116年 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
13940.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
13940.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
13971.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
13992.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
關於主席垂詢的這個部分因為法定的1500億這個基金的設置其實已經播足了所以如果把條文目前現行條文上面的農村再生基金1500億的這個條文把它刪除的話是不影響現在食物的運作以及現狀的 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
13995.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14018.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那這個各位同仁行政部門現在大家剛剛在巡討都知道說大家希望每一年還是一百億左右一直滾一直滾啦齁那大家的方向是一致只是文字要怎麼樣去做齁好我們現在請委員來來賴瑞榮委員張嘉俊委員然後賴瑞榮委員然後這個邱志偉委員好請 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14020.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14048.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
行政部門請聽清楚主席抱歉我有一個文字修正第七條第三款第四我這個文化資產這個上面是寫對但是其實我那個字打錯了寫文化資產所以麻煩可以更正一下嗎謝謝換賴委員問問那個張教委我們的新的已經文字我們主動幫你修了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14049.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14072.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
OK,謝謝,謝謝,很詳細,來,任委員。好,謝謝,我想我的看法是因為這個農村再生的部分,這個經費因為當時從通過之後1500億,事實上四期的部分政府也都持續有撥補進來,那每年大概也都會撥100億,所以基本上關鍵還是在於政府會持續的撥補,只要有撥補進來就會用得到。 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14072.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14100.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
那我是比較傾向建議你即使你編了1500億即使你改為3000億、4000億他每年還是需要撥補才會實際用到的所以那個額度多少其實反而不是關鍵所以我比較傾向既然這個運作了十幾年都穩健的運作我建議是不是還是維持現行的條文1500億就好那導致我們去督促政府每年要持續的來每一期每一期來編列我認為這個對於整個這個再生、農村再生的發展反而更有助益啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14100.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14125.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
建議維持現行條文。這個我剛剛在諮詢的時候有提到,那部長也明確答覆,如果按照這個,如果行政部門是要找到裁員,如果是立法部門,你要有,你不能針對特定金額或特定比率嘛齁,所以你不管是同位向來搬分, |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14126.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14130.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14144.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14166.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
他已經答應,也承諾,會跟這個行政院爭取中長期的計畫,延續農村再生的相關的計畫作為而且額度不低於,我們可以做一個復旦結語,額度不低於現行的每年的支出嘛。這樣我們要修法啦。修法,你給他點頭修法,我們至少麻煩伊德博的執行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14168.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14193.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
如果可以請農業部承諾,供你未來你正常期計畫裡面,我不需要修法,正常期計畫裡面你第五期、第六期都能夠比照前面四期每年一百億的規模,那我們就問題就解決了。農村再生很重要,那需要裁員,那裁員他的來源不是這樣子,因為你這樣定的話,不管是這個四千五百億或三千六百億,都違反財政紀律法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14196.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14198.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
兩、兩、兩立法院委員不能有委員啊。所以現在的通過齁,他沒辦法執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14201.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14227.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
等到我入宮我建議你用這個附帶決議就是說每年度的計劃裡面你要延續農村再生計劃各項六項指標全部都要執行每年度的這個預算規模不得低於這個現行的一百億最起碼四當四百億而且一次要擬定中期中長期計劃到第五期到第六期這樣到現在還要八年 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14230.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14234.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
案 兩、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14258.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14261.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
宣誓再生誓再生誓。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14279.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14292.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
而且他們分為四個階段那這個是第四個階段就是因為現在是到一百一十六年所以呢到一百一十六年就等於一千五百億全部都沒有了我們現在在思考要怎麼樣讓我們的農民有尊嚴讓農業部他有更寬廣的空間是這個所有都沒有違法全部都在這個裡面我再次強調齁好來接下來是陳景飛委員接下來邱議瑩委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14309.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14331.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
等他們講完謝謝主席其實為了農村的再生跟農民的一個發展我想我們都希望是錢更多更好這應該是大家為了整個農村的轉型但是我們是不是能夠做到或是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14332.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14332.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14353.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14353.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
條文宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14383.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14411.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
有些是要再加進來是可以再納入到我們整個農村再生的範圍裡面因為我們的變動太大了很多的農村的改變都已經是超出我們的預期很多年輕朋友願意回來我們應該給他更多的幫助所以很多的東西其實已經不敷在這個範圍裡面了我認為我們今天就這樣子草草率率的就這樣去討論其實不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14414.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14438.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
從基金的這個預算再來在整個的一個用途的部分因為我自己也有提案我認為從這個用途都應該去做改變所以我是不是建議我們的主席我們今天如果在今天就要決定實在是有點草率我們是不是讓他們既然我們已經把球發出來了我們請農業部好好去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14439.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14439.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14456.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14476.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
創生之後怎麼回歸到我們農村再生要怎麼去做銜接這個其實都有很多的一個細項要去處理的所以我認為從基金的部分從用途的部分我們都應該給農業部好好的時間去做重新的一些論述時間應該要給農業部好好的盤整一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14481.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14489.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
好謝謝陳廷輝委員那接下來我們邱議員委員在邱議員委員這個說這個的時候我先補充一句齁剛剛陳廷輝委員說我們今天審查這個不應該沒有那個不應該因為很緊張有你剛剛有講116年沒關係116所以現在在協商嘛現在在協商喔116年就已經沒有所以我們現在114年了很緊張 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14509.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14531.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
還有第113年還有來在我的體驗裡頭將跟於雷同的也就是第七條現在的用途跟101年的用途是有很多不一樣所以本席也特別針對這個土地利用、農宅、生活生產、生態、文化、景觀空間規劃、配置、整建、獎勵措施等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14532.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14541.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
因為現在就成如你說的有很多的青農我們連他實際上沒有土地但是他實際上年輕人從事農作我們都願意鼓勵年輕人給他們農保這個就是我們想盡一切辦法所以我也要預請行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14549.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14555.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
當我們在基層跑已經提出了不一樣的用途你們理所當然應該在第七條你們要提出你們的看法可以增加什麼可以減少什麼這才是我們要做的協商啊好不好我補充這一點齁好來那我們請那個邱議委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14568.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14575.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14594.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14613.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
第一項的最後我們加基金不足者由政府編列預算補充之然後農村再生基金來源如下一政府逐年編列預算之撥入如果做這樣的文字修正我不曉得農業部門能不能同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14615.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14628.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
委員發言到這裡,我們請行政部門一併說明,謝謝。好,謝謝委員的這些提案還有一些看法。剛才接近委員說用附帶決議的部分,我在這邊跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14631.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14651.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我先回應剛才委員的意見嘛那委員剛才有那個邱議瑩委員有提到就是說用附帶決議的方式我在這邊報告99年度在立法的那個時間點有一個附帶決議基金151用完以後應該再撥500億1500億用完還要再撥500億所以在99年度的這個法通過以後就有一個附帶決議了 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14658.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14661.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
所以這個附帶決議到底它的效率是怎麼樣?可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14662.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14667.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
那個主席來這邊說一下,這個就是我們今天提案委員以及藍綠白委員緊張的。因為我們也知道那時候1500億怕不夠,所以再給一個單路500億,那時候因為這個條例是我從一而終去弄出來的。那我們也怕,因為現在的時空環境跟以往不一樣,以前的一年100億跟現在的一年100億你光通憑什麼你就不夠啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14690.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14702.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
所以這個座戶待決我本席也是不同意的還是要請行政部門好好去研議這個是我希望的我們可以慢點時間但是因為討論又有共識數字各位同仁就是說其實我們指定的當然這個在財政紀律裡頭還有討論空間也不一定是錯但是我們的目標是一致要照顧農民所以我們如果數字我也同意數字不上去甚至連1500億要不要拿下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14720.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14742.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
這個我想再請行政部門再好好去想但是目的就是一定116年以後還是要繼續還是要繼續而且不是只有那500億啦一進攻出底線啦我就是怕說未來農業部就像乞丐一樣去拜託行政院我不同意這樣子的好不好好那你再說那剛才還有委員提到就是說如果把 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14743.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14766.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
就是再增加一個齁就是基金不足者由政府編列預算撥充資嘛那剛才邱委員的意見是這樣子嘛齁那剛才有詢問到竹總用這樣的方式齁跟我們現在的體力啦現在的齁他們是建議說就是由政府循預算程序撥款啦喔資撥款那個是那個那個你們的法律用語啦對意思是一樣的對那個意思一樣你請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14771.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14788.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
謝謝主席跟針對剛剛邱委員所提的那個修正的文字啊邱委員的文字是基金不足者由政府編列預算播充之嘛那因為基金不足者怕將來會有人誤解說只要我不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14789.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14789.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
一、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14811.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
14830.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
這個部分我們剛剛在詢討,我這裡補充一下,就是農村再生基金之來源如下,那第一款裡頭,那它本來就是城鄉分園變略預算之撥入,但是如果在法律用語裡頭是政府循預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
14831.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
14855.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
程序之撥款。」這個跟邱議委員的意思是同樣的只是我們把它寫得比較比較就不足啦還是這樣啦我們這裡先保留好了對對對對沒關係我們先再討論一個有方案好那剛剛委員所討論的現在還有一項農村再生要持續做對對對對那目標大家都一樣還是說這個撥補的的 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
14859.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
14881.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
文字要怎麼寫?這個我們可能還要在系部去討論。好,那行政部門現在我們委員討論的,我先講一下看看,第七條的部分我們保留送學商,但是這個裡面有幾項要拜託行政部門。第一個,數字。 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
14882.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
14897.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
要不要拿掉?那我們委員剛才討論也可以拿掉沒關係我講一下第二個還有一個很重要的重點是行政部門拜託你們還辛苦的你的用途用途你要好好我們給時間好好去分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
14898.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
14922.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
那我們的目的就像剛才邱委員所說的跟陳任委員、賴任委員大概都會講目的就是還要延續按你們在行政作為當中要怎麼樣可以得到保障因為一個行政院底下有那麼多孩子你不一定是得寵的那萬一不得寵怎麼辦所以我們希望在文字上面給予助後盾來 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
14923.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
14924.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
懒惰委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
14940.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
14942.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
案：立法院第11屆第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會第12期經濟委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
14965.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
14979.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
只是他們在執行分四個階段執行所以錢不會不見而且當然有附帶如果不足再加500億所以換句話說整個農村再生條例最高如果在法制面裡頭最高2000億那這個絕對是不足的我們才會緊張說要怎麼做讓行政部門可以更靈活 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
14989.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15016.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
我剛剛沒有說不要討論這個案子因為討論這個案子是必要的因為確實我們要去奠定說我們希望農村再生是要持續的只是說我剛剛講的是應該讓他們有一個時間去討論把金額的部分把用途的部分做一個很實質的討論因為現在的狀況完全不同所以再拜託部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15017.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15027.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
那各位同仁還有行政部門在這裡我們是不是第七條就針對剛剛所做的討論它的用途請行政部門以及我們所有委員大家再研討那今有的部分呢現在原則大家不寫在上面那至於1500億要怎麼樣做處理那也請行政部門跟主席總處這邊我們的目的就是希望116年之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15045.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15072.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
長長久久我們的農村再生條例一定要繼續推動照顧農民好不好那這一條第七條經過充分的討論我覺得這樣很好大家把內容實際討論出來越來越有焦點那就請行政部門你們儘速去討論討論有一個方向本席會再來召開這個這個這個協商好嗎各位同仁是不是做如此第七條我們就保留送協商好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15074.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15076.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
行政部門請作出明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15101.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15119.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
來,我們請宣讀協商結論。請宣讀。宣讀農村再生條例協商結論第二條趙委員、張嘉俊等人提案通過,第七條保留送院會處理,第十五條趙委員、邱議瑩等人及委員楊瓊瓔等人提案通過,宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15120.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15120.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15140.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15160.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
請問有沒有異議?沒有?好,就通過。那我們討論事項所列的農村再生條例第二條、第七條及第十五條條文修正草案並按審查完據。那擬具這一個審查報告,報題報院會討論。請問需不需要交流一條呢?先生要啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15161.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15177.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
要協商,願會討論的時候有本席來做說明。主席宣告,通過條文相關的法律用語,授權主席及議事人員整理。本日議程處理完畢,明天星期四上午9點繼續開會,現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15185.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15190.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
我們是不是各位同仁那個協商是12點半我們繼續協商各位同仁謝謝 |