| IVOD_ID |
15910 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15910 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-15T08:31:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-15T11:22:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:50:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a68543dc8870a7b167e269e13353c436ea853be8d109af184be4cd537f49079f3ddb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查
(一)委員王育敏等21人擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。
(二)國民黨黨團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。
(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
(一)委員王育敏等18人擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條條文修正草案」案。
(二)國民黨黨團擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條及第八十六條條文修正草案」案。
三、審查
(一)委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員王育敏等18人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第九條及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員馬文君等22人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員邱若華等20人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。
【一、(三)及(四)案：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】
【三、(四)案：如經復議，則不予審查】
【討論事項綜合詢答】
【5月13日、15日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:17 - 11:22:00 |
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》委員王育敏等21人擬具 |
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1828.407 |
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1856.017 |
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好,我們現在開會繼續審查公會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案計四案勞動基準法第54條第86條條文修正草案計兩案中高齡及高齡就業促進法部分條文修正草案計四案有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報現在先介紹在場的委員及列席的官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1857.658 |
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1883.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
陳昭之委員王振旭委員陳穎委員介紹今天出席的官員勞動部許明春部長勞動力發展署蔡孟良署長職業安全衛生署周子蓮署長勞動關係司王厚偉司長勞動福祉退休司謝倩倩司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1885.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1911.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
勞動法務司副會支司長內政部人事處許孟志檢任視察許孟志檢任視察在後面是不是?警政署陳永利副署長警政署人事室許淑珍主任消防署蕭煥章署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1913.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1936.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
消防署綜合企劃組陳坤佐組長消防署人事室詹東波主任全序部政務次長朱南賢次長人事管理司彭國華司長行政院人事行政總處懷旭副人事長綜合規劃處周威庭處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1939.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1966.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
行政院主計總處公務預算處吳明修專門委員法務部汪南君參事經濟部人事處丁惠祥副處長中小及新創企業署黃欣怡組長財政部負稅署胡士賢副組長好歡迎今天列席的官員那現在我們就請宣讀提案條文內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1967.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1987.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
公會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案委員王育敏等21人提案國民黨黨團提案委員陳菁徽等18人提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案現行法條文對照表委員王育敏等21人國民黨黨團提案第四條第三項如下教師及消防人員得依本法組織及加入工會第四項守據為 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1988.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2008.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
除前項規定外斗號其餘與現行法同委員陳金輝等18人提案第四條第三項如下教師頓號消防人員得以本法組織及加入工會其餘委員王育敏等21人提案同臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第四條第三項如下教師頓號警察人員及消防人員得以本法組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2009.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2038.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
及加入工會契於於委員王育敏等21人提案同。委員王育敏等21人提案國民黨黨團提案第六條序文第二句如下但教師及消防人員謹德組織及加入第二款及第三款之工會契於於現行法同。委員陳菁徽等18人提案第六條序文第二句如下但教師鄧浩消防人員謹德組織及加入第二款及第三款之工會契於於現行法同。台灣民眾黨黨團提案第六條序文第二句如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2038.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2056.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
但教師頓浩警察人員及消防人員僅得組織及加入第二款及第三款之工會其餘與現行法同。繼續宣讀勞動基準法條文修正草案委員王育敏等18人提案國民黨黨團提案現行法條文對照表委員王育敏等18人提案第54條 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2058.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2069.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
於第二項守具後面增列經勞資協議延任或新聘者得延後之具號令修正墨具前之標點符號為逗號其餘現行法同國民黨黨團提案第54條第一項第一款如下一年滿65歲者但經勞資協議延任或新聘者不在此限其餘現行法同國民黨黨團提案第86條增訂第四項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2083.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2101.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
本法第五十四條修正條文自中華民國全年、全月、全日施行,其餘與現行法同。繼續宣讀中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法條文修正草案。委員郭育秦等19人提案。委員王育敏等18人提案。委員馬文君等22人提案。委員邱若驊等20人提案。現行法條文對照表。委員邱若驊等20人。委員馬文君等22人提案第七條。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2107.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2120.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
爭定第二項如下前項計畫包含下列事項一中高齡者及高齡者就業之促進二中高齡者及高齡者職業安全及健康之維護契約現行法同委員王育敏等18人提案第九條為協助中高齡者及高齡者就業主管機關應提供職場職營手冊並至少每兩年更新一次委員郭育秦等19人提案第26條爭定第二項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2133.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2152.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
盈利事業僱用中高齡者及高齡者於申報所得稅時得在金額新台幣一千萬元額度內按薪資之己付金額之百分之一百五十自其當年度盈利事業所得額中減除其予以現行法同。委員王育敏等18人提案第29條修正第一項第二句末三字為前兩年其予以現行法同。委員邱若驊等20人提案第36條修正第二句首字為因其予以現行法同。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2165.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2185.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好 那我們現在就來進行條文的討論那在第一案公會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案總共四案我們主條審查之前因為昨天沒有讓消防署還有權序部有一個完整的報告那經過這個禮拜一的討論我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2190.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2191.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案﹚一、審查�� |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2216.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2243.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席各位委員各位先進各位媒體朋友大家好消防署針對於消防人員職業安全事實上是我們重中之重在過去幾年從我擔任訓練中心主任到臺中市府到回到消防署事實上我們投注很多的心力在消防人員職業安全的部分當然消防人員是屬於公務人員他真的是在歷次的大法官解釋都有特別認為是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2244.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2265.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
公務人員與國家關係是公法上的事務關係所以跟司法上的勞僱關係勞工這部分是不一樣的另外就是我們在國外的經驗裡面也只有少數的國家是有條件有門檻的方式具有消防人員的爭議權目前在 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2267.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2290.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
全序部以針對協會法作為一個完整的一個修正是不是建議主席等一下也讓全序部能夠做一個說明讓我們所需要的團結權跟協商權怎麼具備這是我們在整個報告裡面論述的一個首先提出的報告那詳細的素面資料請各位委員作為一個參閱那接下來就是跟各位委員報告就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2291.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2294.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2319.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2322.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
), 委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案 案件及責任責任責任責任責任責任責任責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2337.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2355.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
條及第六條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文修正草案案件事宜及其中一條條文� |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2359.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2368.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
除此之外,提升的同時就包括剛才所報告的無人機、救災機器人還有車輛裝備器材,裝備器材總共達到147億,這個在目前跟後續幾年會逐步的來落實這方面的一個採購跟添置。那車輛廳設跟訓練設施的部分大概有投入20億元。那車輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2383.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2408.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
﹑新設的救災車輛從我們一期計劃跟二期計劃一期計劃已經投注12億那二期計劃總共19億這都是由中央特別統籌分配稅款來做執行總共這樣汰換下來消防車可以汰換達到300部以上的消防車的汰換當然災害應變的韌性也投注49億那同時對民間的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2410.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2424.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一、審判員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一、審判員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一、審判員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一、審判員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一、審判員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2430.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2431.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
),委員王育敏 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2448.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2459.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
),委員王育敏等19人擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案﹚立法院第16期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2465.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2481.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
目前消防局院另外一個主力是從警專警察中心學校擴大招生這個部分來執行原來消防科的學生只有150位我們跟警專來協商他可以擴充到400位所以預期未來每一年可以培養到1400位的消防人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2483.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2510.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那在整個課程的部分就是為了推動消防治安所以我們事故安全觀消防人員自救快速救援小組就同時出事情以後我們的救援能量是怎麼來執行當然繩索、車會的救助、安全駕駛還有我們新式的體能訓練也是參考美方的一個做法來強化我們消防人員核心的職能跟他們發生事件以後怎麼自救互救的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2512.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2538.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
除此之外,在中期的部分管理系統的強化,這是我們在整個職業安全從制度面、法制面跟計畫面來推動我們消防職業安全,來建立我們消防安全跟健康的框架,保護我們消防經驗的安全。為了推動這個案子,我們在事實上在111年開始,很感謝我們治安署跟勞研所共同幫忙,也簽署了IMOU來協助消防署 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2538.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2566.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2566.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2594.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
當成我們在整個推動的一個主要參考內容那推從第一年推動以後呢市場有相當基礎那第二年112年還有8個機關持續在推動那今年剛才跟署長職安署署長跟勞援所這邊在部長支持之下會繼續推動16個消防機關的一個推動那目前我們提到也提報了為了推動消防職安也從推動職業安全衛生中程計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2595.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2612.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
),委員王育敏等19人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案, 目前已經在5月10號報導行政院,預計是從114年開始推動。那同時為了讓消防人員的事業安全能夠有法規的一個依據,那也不要影響到一般的公務人員,也不要造成勞安這方面的推動的一個隔閡。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2615.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2629.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
μη一般公務員還高甚至應該比勞工的安全還高這是我們在參考國外做法以後所以我們這一次也把這個消防法修正案增列治安專章已經報到行政院那接下來會報到大院來做一個審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2631.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2633.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2649.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2678.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
),委員鐘央來做一個整體的一個輔導那每個縣市有相對的輔導團隊因為消防人員的食安事實上是對台灣來講甚至對世界各國上個禮拜到美國參加55個國家消防首長的會議各國也同樣針對消防人員的職業安全這個部分來做一個強化所以我們這個一方面繼續國內食安的經驗一方面也參考國外的做法來強化真的落實到我們消防人員的一個職業安全的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2680.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2683.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
國民黨黨團擬具《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案》案。厲 委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2697.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2727.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
), ️ |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2727.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2728.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2742.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2759.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
此行事實上就在批的階段從相對的法規的目前治安專章的條文裡面相對的條文我們都列在上面所以這個條文內容到時候報告到大會再請大會來跟我們知道看怎麼樣來建構整體的一個職業安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2760.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2781.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
除此之外,在長期的職業安全、安全文化型數裡面,這是在職業安全裡面很重要的一個區塊,也是最難的區塊。怎麼由下而上建構起共同的安全文化,這是我們要努力的一個地方。所以在前述的中等計畫就是以五年的概念,從裝備器材、組織文化、 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2782.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2786.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
國民黨黨團擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2793.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2817.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
), ️ ️ |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2818.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2820.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
公務人員協會改善團結權及協商權給予消防人員未來有這樣的空間,跟大家作報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2841.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2856.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
主席、各位委員、各位律師、各位先生。我想情緒部在今天的報告特別重申一下為什麼那個校園委員不適合組工會。主要校園委員的人事法制,他的任免簽調、考積、獎懲、退休、撫恤 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2859.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2864.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
委員陳菁徽等18人擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》案。cellence |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2878.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2890.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
除了那禮拜一有人提過,他的身份屬性不太一樣。他是公法上的職務關係,而不是司法上的勞子關係。這個是很清楚的。那我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2894.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2918.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
昨天那天有報告就是很多委員也有講說這個國外都有組工會等等為什麼我們不能組工會那這邊要特別報告我們那張表也有說明國外的工會公司部門適用同一部工會的全世界只有英國其他國家他是專屬的適用公務員的工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2919.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2921.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
其他國家是自己做工人員的工會法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2937.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2948.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
除此之外：立法院第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆全體委員會議第16屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2965.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2986.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
醫護人員他們是特種法規適用的他可以來組特種協會這種協會的話就會團結群方面就會變得大多了那當然就是你要團結群你門檻要降低目前是800人才能組工會我們現在降回400 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2987.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3006.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
議員陳菁徽等18人擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3007.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3007.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
議員陳菁 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3024.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3028.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3044.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3068.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
除非屬全國一致性的福利措施,都可以列為協商。這個部分都已經讓以前的條件放寬很多。而協商不成的話,我們還有調解機制。調解不成的話,還有爭議處理機制,三階段來做。這個部分就是仿照工會的模式去處理的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3070.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3084.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
此決議的爭議處理之後的結果如果說機關所長或是民警所長不遵守的話可以究責或是罰款另外就是說我們調查的結果15個縣市對這個部分比較保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3094.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3114.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
獎項獎項獎項 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3115.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3133.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
就是希望不要脫離公民法制去組工會。這是我們特別要提出來做報告的。謝謝。好,謝謝我們全學部主事長的一個報告跟說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3134.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3136.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3156.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3166.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
主席大家好我的看法是這樣子因為剛剛前序部的說明呢就說明了在公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3169.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3188.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
協會法裏面有很多對於基層的警消人員在工作待遇上工作份量上讓他們覺得吃不消所以才會有今天這麼多委員跟黨團的提案版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3189.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3216.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我不知道為什麼公務人員協會法的修法速度會那麼慢其實在教師納入公會法的時候就已經把整個立法的體制破壞掉了公會法第一條開宗明義就講了公會法其實是為了要團結勞工改善勞工條件也就是說它是鎖定在勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3217.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3220.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
公務人員協會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。所以我覺得當初教師納入工會法 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3247.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3273.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
就已經是一項錯誤而且破壞原有體系的東西那假如說現在再把警消我確實很認同委員跟其他黨團提案的版本為什麼呢因為他們用這樣子的方式來表達基層的聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3275.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3296.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
因為錦霄可能大概都覺得自己的工作權益並沒有得到很妥善的照顧跟落實所以才會有這樣子的提案版本 這個第一第二就是教師納入工會法以後我們當初是同時修正勞資爭議處理法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3299.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3322.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
現縮了教師的罷工權那假如說我們現在單純今天只就工會法第四條跟第六條讓警消成立工會可是勞資爭議處理法沒有同時做處理那很可能就會造成警消可以行使罷工權 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3324.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3349.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以我的建議是這個案是很值得討論可是是不是可以等到相關的法律一起提出的時候我們再做討論比如說前序部前序部剛剛做了那麼多說明你們什麼時候可以提出相關的修法版本在徵詢意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3358.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3369.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
到底他們還有什麼樣的地方像楊委員講的哪裡有不滿哪裡需要改我們再徵詢一下意見然後讓這個520的新政府可以了解實際的狀況再送上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3372.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3402.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
獎項獎項獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3403.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3425.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
公務體系跟一般勞工的界限縱使要在像教師一樣破壞這樣子的不相同的立法體力那我覺得也必須要等勞資爭議處理法一起提案的時候我們再來做詳細的討論這個是我的建議 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3432.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3455.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
蘇清泉委員陳昭志委員我要請問我們全系部的次長你剛剛講的公務人員的權益條例還是一個公務人員學會法你是要用另外一個公會法還是另外另一個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3457.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3485.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
跟勞基法無關因為剛剛楊耀偉人講的把教師納入這個工會法本身就是一個錯誤嘛那你們是不是有想要把公務人員所有的權益都另外搞一個法來cover他們所有的權益你這樣子講的話我還聽得下去喔那如果就硬這樣耍賴說不要不要不要就不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3487.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3496.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
二、三、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、三、二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3514.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3514.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
國民黨黨團擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3536.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3562.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以當初是沒有就是教師納入工會法的時候並沒有把他標明施立學校的教師這個是這樣子你剛剛回答蘇星球委員的問題我覺得是這樣子就是公務人員協會法現在不只是在立法上有限縮到公務人員權益的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3564.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3567.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3581.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3607.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
現在有協會法可是因為有上對下的一些關係所以組成也很困難這個是全就是從立法面到執行面都全部出了問題才會有這麼多基層警消向立法委員跟各黨團提出陳情才會有今天這個修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3611.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3616.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
陳昭智委員、林淑芬、林月琴、陳金輝委員陳昭智委員、林淑芬、林月琴、陳金輝委員陳昭智委員、林淑芬、林月琴、陳金輝委員陳昭智委員、林淑芬、林月琴、陳金輝委員陳昭智委員、林淑芬、林月琴、陳金輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3637.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3657.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
愿会没有意义的意思表示连执政党都不买单请大家记得退回程序委员会大家都没有意义这是第一个当时的情况是这样第二个我要举出第8届第5期第17次的内政部的这个内政组的这个会议当时主席是陈其迈市长 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3658.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3679.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
里面他的發言陳主席說高雄的公務員就有組工會署長你要不要去高雄市政府取經去問問看他說組工會是合理的因為有超時加班陳其邁主席也說請你們考慮清楚針對警察組工會居然是政府在反對警政署在反對當時的國民黨也在反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3684.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3706.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那我想在就剛剛的一開始消防署的報告他只提到哪些國家不允許那重點是目前各國消防人員有工會組織的包括剛剛有提到英國有韓國英國美國加拿大法國澳洲紐西蘭德國等14個歐洲國家工會聯合會香港本身也有消防處的職工總會以及教護員的工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3710.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3732.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
除此之外在禮拜一的時候許部長您有提到說日本不允許但是日本的消防委員的協會具有協商權協商權不是協商有協商的權利這是工會組織的非常重要的一個功能日本消防員雖然沒有辦法組織工會但是他具有協商權的這個消防員協會來保障消防院的這個消防員的這個勞動條件另外第三點就是說這個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3740.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3742.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3758.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3785.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這個協會法從這個招募達800人或機關員額五分之一降為400人還是超過機關這個預算員額五分之一還是非常的離譜這個門檻非常的高第二個仍然沒有協商權雖然它項目有增加有所謂的這個運政移民來警校等等相關但是最重要的財事權還是在主管機關所以它的協商權是被弱化的第三個它無法透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3786.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3786.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3802.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3816.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
除此之外,其中一項項目是關於社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3817.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3818.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
公會的時候我們限制的勞資爭議處理法的配套應該要同時拿出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3834.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3836.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
但是我今天在這裡我還是要對這個權序部表達我們的不滿因為這個始作俑者你在這裡一直講說這個公務人員的協會法公務人員協會法公務人員的協會法曾魯主席講的拿出來以後大家都不能接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3853.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3854.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
兩公約裏面其實都已經放進來的內國法化了所以團結權這個東西是變成一個我們的基本上大家社會上也認為應該要給的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3871.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3873.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
團結權是勞動三權之首,參照ILO第87號公約的精神也明定了教師主公會。所以2009年教師主公會的確是在這樣的環境和背景裡面被放進來的主公會的破口。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3890.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3892.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3908.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3937.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
可是我要為什麼要討論這個全序部的這個公務人員協會法呢因為公務人員的協會法第一個大家爭執的就是說團結權的門檻過高那第二個呢他雖然可以提出協商可是提出協商的項目啊其實什麼協商什麼工作簡化績效平和訓練進修等等可是協商不成就要進入這個調解的程序但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3938.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3955.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
據我們所知這些消防人員要講的不是只有爭取勤修工作簡化業績績效這樣的東西他們要爭取的是人力的配置裝備的安全還有檢討救災現場相關的核心的因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3956.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3962.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
所以為什麼拿出來大家不能接受是因為你給我們的協商的內容跟他們主張要的內容落差太大了除了門檻太高以外團結權第一這叫協商權協商的門檻已經很高了協商的內容還是這樣的受限然後呢在協商的過程裡面如果不是在組工會這個概念裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3985.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3989.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我們主公會是團體協約法發動權不是只有行政機關可以發動團體協約是兩兆雙方都可以發動結果我們的這個公務人員協會法裡面是主動權是在行政部門手上然後也主管機關還是握有最終的才事權所以這種狀況裡面他們當然是不能接受的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4010.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4017.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
μη要拿一個大家稍微可以趨近於但是你可以退一步他也退一步的話這樣的公務人員協協會法你應該拿一個你不能夠堅持說我只能這樣子我只能這樣子我就只給這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4025.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4026.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
公務人員協會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4046.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4051.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
兼具部則無旁貸,可是已經講了很多年了,因為真的講了很多年了,他們的協商權你給的都像是建議權,建議權而已,那當然大家是不能接受的,所以今天我們是希望說要再討論應該也是可以的主席,但是這個討論我們是不是要有一個就是說你要在工會法裡面的話,那你的這個爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4073.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4073.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
議員陳菁徽等18人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4093.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4098.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
第二個如果不走這條路徑的話我們的公務人員協會法也要拿出來啊人家的團結權的門檻你到底怎麼樣還要維持這麼高嗎你的協商權還是把它架空成只像是建議權嗎而且建議權建議到最後還是由主管機關來裁示那還叫協商權嗎所以這個東西我覺得是知識體大啦應該大家要多一點討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4123.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4124.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
接下來請林岳晴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4127.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4154.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
允許我們的淑芬委員提到所以如果是要走協會法的話那是不是應該也要講清楚說明白如果要走工會法一樣的配套要拿出來所以我針對於剛才我們的詮釋部在講的所以想問一下剛剛講說把工會法的所有很多東西都已經有放進來考慮在協會法裡面所以第一個就是對於協商不成的處理方法剛剛的確有回應可是從協商到調解到爭議處理想問是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4157.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4178.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
二、三、四百人才能成立特種協會太高,那下降到兩百人可以嗎?否則就陳如剛剛前面委員講的已經這麼多年了,你如果沒有拿出一個來解決我們的警校人員的疑慮的話,一直說要協會法的話,事實上一定會有一些阻礙。 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4180.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4205.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
第三個是協會可否制定組織章程可否拒絕主管參加因為前天大家就已經有提過如果是工會法的話我們大家都是平等地位那我再去跟資方去協調可是如果是協會法的話在裡邊可能用我的主管那怎麼去做一個我要爭取我的權益大家就有點困難以上這三個請我們的全區補各位回答好再請陳菁輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4209.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4209.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
〔法定人數不足〕 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4231.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4234.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
公會的權利另外想強調說大法官釋字第373號理由書寫得非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4248.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4274.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
為了改善勞動條件增進社會及經濟地位得組織工會雖然呢大法官當初並沒有明確的針對消防人做解釋可是很明顯他們就是從事各種職業的勞動者因此現在這些消防團體也已經準備要打到憲法法庭所以如果大家繼續這樣子禁止很有可能也會被宣告是違憲那當然前幾天質詢就已經有講到了2017年我們就開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4277.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4284.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
),委員王育敏等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4307.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4321.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
除2017年勞怒部部長提出來的四個方案看起來是修工會法是最有效率最能幫助到基層這些警消的方式謝謝好謝謝接下來黃秀芳委員陳昭智委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4322.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4325.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
公會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4349.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4352.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》案。netesa |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4366.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4370.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
公務人員協會法部分條文修正草案將來會送到立法院公務人員協會法可以涵蓋到我們現在希望警消可以有結社權、協商權 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4387.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4388.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
), 委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4402.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4403.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
委員陳昭智委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4430.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4458.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我想要回應一下因為剛剛林淑芬委員她在擔心說社會對於這個警消的罷工有疑慮但我想事實上大家會同意說擔任警消這個基層兄弟基本上他們大概就是會有一些使命感因為這個是勇敢犯難的一個工作但是如果委員會擔心應該認為要有罷工權的配套措施我們建議可以提出附帶決議就是要求行政機關提出合理的一個配套規範草案到立法院來做這個審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4460.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4486.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
另外一方面我也要再提到警消人員因為本黨是要求警跟消是一起納入其實他們主要的問題就是除了人力嚴重的不足大家都知道超時加班過了業務包山包海裝備不足等等而且警察的工作風險也不會比消防員還少我今天手邊的資料就是根據內政部自己統計近10年消防員因公殉職和因公死亡的人數是44位 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4488.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4512.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
﹑警察多達84位。在自殺人數的部分,輕生的部分,消防員進行有11位。那麼警察是58位。所以這些統計數字可以告訴警消真的是高風險的工作。他們在生理上跟精神上都面臨重大的壓力。加上我們大概也都理解基層警員對於這個不合理的績效考評,工作調度等等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4513.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4523.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．事由．立法院第16次全體委員會議．事由．立法院第16次全體委員會議．事由．立法院第16次全體委員會議．事由．立法院第16次全體委員會議．事由．立法院第16次全體委員會議．事由．立法院第16次全體委員會議． |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4543.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4545.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
王正旭委員請消防署及全序部回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4550.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4575.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
好謝謝主席還有各位委員我想對於警消同仁的付出大家都非常肯定而且也認同大家必須要用盡全力來保障他們的各方面的安全不管是從設備從人力等等那剛剛我們也聽到主管機關這邊也提出了各種保障的方案或者是如何能夠讓他們更 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4576.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4605.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
具有在付出的同時也可以得到適當的保障我還是覺得有一些比較細節的部分我會表達我的擔心說如果我們納入工會變成他具有除了團結權協商權以外萬一又有罷工權的情形之下會造成什麼樣的影響這個我想大家都會很擔心非常非常的擔心因為這個牽扯到的是社會安全還有我們人民人身財產的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4606.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4628.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
社想如果我住在一棟大樓裡面出現了火警或出現了一些治安的問題剛好我們這些警消人員他利用他的罷工權也好或者是他利用他的集體請假權也好造成社會或者是人民在這方面的擔心、恐懼 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4629.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4652.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
由其這是一種心理壓力當人民覺得他的生命安全、人身安全、財產安全無法得到透過警消同仁的付出得到適當的保障的時候那這種社會不安定的心理會不會越來越明顯造成的影響會不會越來越擔心這是一個很不好的二項循環所以我會認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4653.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4678.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
大家應該努力的來透過不管是公衛人員協會法等等的方式來加強來努力的保障我們這些警消人員的所有該有的得到了社會的認同跟應該得到的回饋可是如果我們這樣子沒有好的配套措施讓這樣的這個法案通過的話萬一出現我剛剛所提 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4679.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4691.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
), 國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4699.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4717.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4718.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4737.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
對消防局的部分是有19個機關不同意入工會法來組工會這是目前調查的狀況沒有回應跟保留態度是有一個機關有同意入工會法但是要限制罷工權有兩個機關這是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4740.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4755.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
禮拜一委員會完了以後我們再跟縣市做一個洽詢的一個狀況那對縣市政府的部分是有16個地方政府不同意組工會那組工會但是要限制罷工權有兩個地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4755.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4772.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
自治組工會有三個地方政府沒有意見的是一個地方政府這是針對於剛剛委員垂詢對於組工會地方政府我們針對於消防局跟縣市政府這邊昨天在緊急在請教的部分做一個回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4773.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4789.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
第二部分就是針對消防法的修正那事實上我們消防法修正也針對於去年明天大火以後對於危險物品場所的安全條文已經有做修正那去年提報到院會來那因為屆期不續審所以退回 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4790.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4817.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
以後我們也把消防人員職業安全專章也列入這一次的修正那我們在4月30號也報到行政院我想這個部分在委員關心的這個情形之下我們會加速趕快把消防法修正尤其包括消防人員的職業安全特別這個職業安全又有別於一般的勞工的安全跟一般公務人的安全所以特別提列住我們消防法的一個修正的職業專章的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4818.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4832.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
當然對於消防人員的法制化的作為同時剛才也報告過就是我們消防人員工作安全衛生中層計畫也是五年的計畫這個區塊而這個才是真的我們落實我們資源安全的推動那有專業團隊針對我們所發現的問題找出問題定出一些規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4837.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4863.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這是我們要去努力的地方。那這個案子我們也在5月10號報到行政院裡面來。那我們在跟行政院報告以後就後續今年出的針對原來10個機關加16個機關的輔導以外。那這種計畫期待在明年開始全面性的推動。來針對就是同人的一個安全的意識然後同人的安全文化希望能夠建置。感謝委員的支持。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4866.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4892.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
全學部主持人林委員提到了協商的機制基本上是先協商協商不成的話就進入調解調解的話就比如說新北市的消防局他不會跟消防局局長去調解他是直接找新北市政府就跳過他了所以他不是說找局長協商是找上級機關協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4894.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4911.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
條解再做不成的話就到主管機關這邊做正義的裁決正義裁決總共有9個人社會選達還有兩方各推薦的人這樣去做裁決也不是主管機關一手遮天的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4912.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4921.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
除此之外：立法院第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4934.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4961.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
如說這個像比如說我們消防署的那個消防人員是16300人你說30個人就可以來組成了這好像又代表性又不夠再來就是說主管能不能不參加這個工會目前的協法已經規範了第二條就是政務人員跟機關使用副所長不能參加已經規範那至於主管部分他們理事長什麼是透過選舉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4962.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4979.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
|
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4982.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5008.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
部長我其實不太想說但是我還是要再講一下因為大家協商協商的事項就已經有爭議了到最後如果協商的內容不成的話其實是要調解調解上面是爭議裁處爭議裁處的委員你所有社會選擇等等都還是行政機關這個聘的啦所以在這種狀況裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5010.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5017.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
大家當然都會覺得說你行政部門去找跟你站在一起的學者專家社會選達然後再來來調處我們兩兆雙方的協商不成的事項所以他們當然也會有爭議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5026.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5041.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
除此之外,我們必須提出一個大家稍微看得下去的制度面要大家稍微看得下去的但是主席在講也是一樣再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5043.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5067.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我個人認為工會法這樣的破口但是至少教師組工會2009年的時候真的有處理勞資爭議處理法這樣的一個配套啦所以是不是這樣的配套如果沒有進來其實就整個口就全開了就有罷工權了而這樣的一個罷工權的話事實上對社會真的是忽然之間衝擊會很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5070.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5076.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那我們是不是其實應該是要討論一下是不是也是應該要先擱置要有配套進來再討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5080.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5100.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
陳昭智委員謝謝主席剛剛消防署有提到說某些縣市是多數縣市反對的第一個因為我們都知道消防署消防局是一條邊的所以第一個我想要知道說哪些縣市支持哪些縣市反對我們有權利知道第二個你調查是只有長官嗎你有問基層員警嗎基層員工嗎你有做普查或了解他們的問題所在嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5107.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5114.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
你這個調查公平嗎?我們要求知道內容。哪些縣市是支持跟反對的?謝謝。好,來楊耀文委員。對,我也覺得消防署提出的這種調查可能就是比較類似,我們假如說比較老資,就是比較類似資方的立場。 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5133.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5153.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我還是要強調就是委員會提出這樣子的版本黨團會提出這樣子的版本表示民意的需求在所以我不覺得這種調查跟真實的需求是有必然的關聯第二點就是我還是要再強調一次就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5158.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5175.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
把教師跟警校納入工會本來就已經破壞體制假如說萬一我們今天把這個修正的草案送出委員會沒有同時處理勞資爭議處理法裡面的罷工權的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5179.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5207.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
大家要知道錦霄負責的是全國的治安跟很多緊急事務的處理緊急救護萬一我們讓他可以組工會可是沒有限制罷工那對於台灣社會是一種很潛在的威脅我並不覺得我們可以設立制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5207.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5213.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
委員陳菁徽等18人擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5228.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5256.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
所以我還是希望我們是不是緩一緩把這個條文先留在委員會等到不管是要全修公務人員協會法讓特別法律關係的人有另外一條線或者是要真的無限度的把公務體系的人納入公會法 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5258.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5285.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
), ️ ️ ️ ️ ️ |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5289.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5294.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
委員陳菁徽等18人擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案 案 》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5320.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5346.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以調查對象是消防局局長是不是?我們是以消防局來請教那就是長官啊一條邊啊就是有調查跟沒調查一樣啊我們消防局不是一條邊啊消防署不是一條邊我們是分別但是你調查長官嘛我們是為消防局跟縣市政府的意見是消防局跟縣市政府的意見是 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5346.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5348.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
公會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。 »: |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5368.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5377.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
醫師不見了還得了,對不對?罷工還得了,但醫師早就組工會了。所以這個是事實上是可以做配套措施來管理的,可以來規範的。好,謝謝。好,謝謝。那我想剛剛委員跟事務委員要補充說明,來請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5393.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5421.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我想剛剛很多委員都提了啦齁勞資爭議處理啦工會法今天我們要談的啦公務委員協會法這樣在這邊再討論一直討論一直討論也不好啦所以呢趕快出委員會然後呢我們有一個讓他有時間壓力然後我們在草野學校草野學校也不一定不一定到大院會就一定會怎麼樣我們在那邊好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5422.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5441.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
次委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案﹚立法院第16次委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案﹚立法院第16次委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第16次委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第16次委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第16次委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第16次委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第16次委員王育敏等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5451.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5477.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
所以不要用這種大帽子在扣所以我還是覺得就出委員會配套永遠講不完在這邊再講三個月半年還是在這邊討論沒有沒有沒有不是啦你沒有一個這個限制的話沒有那個同時修法教室我們現在先休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5489.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5491.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
》委員王育敏等21人擬具《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5495.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5500.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5524.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5529.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6641.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6642.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我們繼續開會那跟委員會報告剛剛休息時間其實大家有協商關於這一次本席會排這個工會法的審議我想第一個真的是基層的消防弟兄 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6665.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6673.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案﹖一、審判委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案﹖一、審判委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案﹖一、審判委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹖一、審判委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹖一、審判委員王育� |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6687.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6689.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
除此之外：立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6708.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6718.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正� |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6737.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6741.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
公務人員協會法原本是希望一個月就應該要送進來但是涉及到考試院跟行政院兩院之間的協商所以考試院爭取希望可以多給兩個月的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6762.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6769.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6787.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6800.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
可以啟動再修法所以這個是要告訴行政部門不要敷衍衛環委員會也不要敷衍基層的消防弟兄你們下一個送件的版本多給時間特別是考試院多給時間兩個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6802.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6804.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
), 委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件 條件 條件 條件 條件 條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6820.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6845.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
公會法就可以送出委員會繼續往前走我想這個是我們的條件好不好這個大家就說清楚了所以今天大家其實都這個共同的目的就是在委員會討論我們就希望為將來的消防弟兄有進一步的更多的權益保障那我們這個剛剛有協商的結論但是這個民眾黨還有保留意見來我們請陳昭志委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6848.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6868.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
民眾黨還是要再代表自己堅持的想法我們還是希望能夠保留送協商當然最後會尊重主席的才是因為我們覺得冷凍期一個月剛好是讓行政機構能夠加速再加速趕快去處理你們要處理的部分那有關罷工全部我還是要再說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6869.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6883.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案﹚立法院第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第16次全體委員會議第 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6900.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6904.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
考量勞資正義處理法禁止與限制罷工對象未有消防員與警察一旦將消防員警察人員納入工會法適用對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6922.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6941.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
消防員工會警察工會與各縣市政府發生勞資爭議得依法提出罷工施設整體社會需付出代價民眾認同度故本案應先凝聚社會共識並規劃配套機制並請內政部消防署於一個月內將消防法修正案含 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6942.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6968.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
值安慰專章考試願於二個月內將《公務人員協會法》送立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查保障消防員、警察人員行使其團結權、團體協商權爭取其合理權益與待遇。提案人委員蘇清泉、王育敏、黃秀芳、林月琴、楊耀、盧憲一、王振旭、劉建國、陳盈、邱振鈞、陳金輝宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6970.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6998.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好請問委員通過這項提案有沒有意義好沒有意義我們就通過好那現在有關於第一案我們做以下的這個決議有關於工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案計四案審查完畢另則其好我重新宣告一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6999.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
7008.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
公會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案計四案令則其繼續審查。好來接下來進行第二案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
7028.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
7043.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
第二案是勞動基準法條文修正草案好那有關於第一案審查的那個出席的官員就是第一案會責起審查那第一案出席的官員可以先行離席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
7061.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
7079.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
»:好。接下來我們進行勞動基準法條文修正草案。第54條跟第86條條文修正草案。那有沒有委員要針對這兩案表示意見?好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
7081.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
7084 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
第五十四條委員有提兩個提案然後修正動議有三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
7107.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
7128.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
總共有五個案子那勞動部這邊說明一下現行勞基法第54條就是規定說勞工非滿年滿65歲的時候雇主不得任意的強制勞工退休如果勞工年滿65歲然後雙方有意願其實雇主還可以繼續雇用勞工從事工作這是勞基法54條的立法意旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
7129.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
7148.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
此外,我們考量到說現行勞基法不管是勞工的年齡是多少都可以依照現行勞基法的規定去協商延後退休的年齡權益並沒有不同所以建議說不用再去限縮年滿64歲啦或者是新聘者才能夠讓這雙方去協商這是第一點的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
7149.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
7174.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
第二點的說明另外有提到說身心障礙不堪升任工作的部分在現行勞基法的規定不論是勞工的年齡不管他年齡是多少如果有身心障礙不堪升任工作的情勢的時候本來就可以依照勞基法第一我們勞基法54條第一項第二款的規定來行使強制退休所以不需要再去增訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
7176.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
7188.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
為了鼓勵這雙方能夠合一去讓有意願勞工能夠持續在職場工作我們是建議採納王振旭委員的一個臨時修正動議的一個版本以上說明請問他的修正動議版本跟本席提出來有什麼不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
7196.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
7216.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我剛說明一下那個王振旭委員的修正動議他是在54條看條文對照表54條第二項有提到因為他講前項第一款所定的年齡第一款就是強制退休的那年滿65歲這個年齡可以由勞僱雙方去協商延後之就是延後 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
7216.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
7239.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那王委員您提的版本就是也是一項五十四條第二項就前項第一款所定的年齡經勞資協議延任延任這個法律用語其實我們是要延後不是延任然後或新聘者得延後之這個部分我剛剛有報告其實不管勞工的年齡依照現行的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
7241.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
7258.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
獻行勞基法是規定勞動條件的最低的一個標準所以勞資雙方本來就可以去協商你的退休的年齡是這樣子所以不限於新聘者大家都可以適用所以不需要在法條上明定以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
7264.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
7280.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以你是說不需要特別去明定延後或新聘現任的所有的勞工都有那個權利也沒有年齡的限制也沒有什麼64歲之後都可以去商議就對了但是你是用得得就是看勞工要不要提出來但是一個現實的情況會不會其實他提出來其實是沒有用的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
7294.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
7302.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
μη前面其實已經先說了沒有我們在講是第一項所定的退休年齡看王振旭委員所提的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
7302.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
7324.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
就是説他的第一款有提到年滿65歲嘛那當然這一項這個年齡是指這個年齡得由勞僱雙方協商嘛本來就是要勞僱勞工有意願僱主也要有意願啊勞僱雙方要去協商而且同意嘛才能夠去延後這個部分現行就是這樣的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
7325.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
7343.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
議員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。議員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案。」案。議員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案。案。議員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案。案。議員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案。案。議員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條條文修正草案。案。議員王育敏等19人擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
7350.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
7379.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
之所以沒有辦法我們說在法律一條文說可以經由一方提出就同意這個是不行的好來王衛廉針對這部分其實當初的考量就是因為現在65歲是法定年齡要退休嘛事實上如果要針對我們的勞工階層有更大的保障的話現在超過65歲在就業的人真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
7380.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
7383.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
公務員陳菁徽等18人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
7411.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
7418.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
公平均於命其實提高整個年齡往後的問題對不對其實這樣的寫法還是沒有達到這樣的要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
7419.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
7443.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
獎項獎項獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
7444.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
7448.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
7460.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
7486.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
現在目前就可以協商了。這樣寫會更清楚啦。我想委員的提案也是希望讓一般人看到這個條文就說原來我是可以跟老闆或者老闆可以跟員工再來協商。不會說有些人可能光看原來條文以為誤解說我65歲就非退休不可我就不能延後退休年齡。所以我覺得把它定義清楚是好的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
7486.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
7489.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
除此之外：立法院第16次全體委員會議及第16條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
7503.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
7504.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
允悅請問委員允悅請問委員允悅請問委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
7532.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7553.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
),委員短期內有效,可是18個月後不見得有效。原因在於僱主先讓員工退休再重新聘僱。一方面可以切斷他在公司任職的年資,同時也可以停止他負擔他的勞保費用,並且重新議定價低的薪資。 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7554.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7572.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
因此現行再僱用的比例有提升可是繼續僱用的效果不好所以我們也可以這麼講目前的制度是對僱主有利的問題是這樣的制度特別對於職癌當中有一段時間離開職場一直到中高齡才出來工作不利不利的理由在於 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7573.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7573.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
lapt����� |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7593.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7594.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
),委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7620.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7629.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
謝謝委員有這樣的考量我們都希望這個勞工能夠留在職場上當然有委員這樣寫的話變成是年滿65歲未滿經勞資協商要重新約定聘僱條件延緩退休年齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7638.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7649.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
除此之外,委員王育敏等19人擬具及第六條條文修正草案案案件事宜及第六條條文修正草案案件事宜及第六條條文修正草案案件事宜及第六條條文修正草案案件事宜及第六條條文修正草案案件事宜及第七條條文修正草案案件事宜及第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及第八條條條文修正草案案件事宜及第八條條條文修正草案案件事宜及第八條條條文修正草案案件事宜及第八條條條文修正草案案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7663.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7680.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
公務員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16期社會福利及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第17期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18期社會福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7689.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7713.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
其實我們是才會希望說採用王振旭委員的修正動議就是雙方去協商延後退休的年齡你的勞動條件是不要改變的這樣對勞工才是比較有保障的這是我們希望這個鼓勵也鼓勵雇主持續再雇用員工以上說明好來吳春城委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7720.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7746.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
主席 勞動部現在的精神非常鼓勵壯士代重返職場不過我們的做法當中還是有美意沒辦法達到的地方就是還是對65歲以上帶有歧視 充滿歧視其實就就業來講 或者是各種規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7748.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7751.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
委員陳菁徽等18人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7768.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7772.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7784.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7802.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
一致的但是呢我對我的版本當中我要特別提出來一個文字當中有所不同的就是主動性就是勞工因為其他人沒有提到這一點是勞工有繼續工作意願者 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7803.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7814.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
議員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。議員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。議員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7833.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7851.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
公會跟公司的關係叫勞資協議但是這個是個人跟公司的關係所以這裡應該有所分別就是希望這個修正的文字精神一致不過文字可能更細緻的一點僅僱主及勞工雙方協議的延長之以上請大家參考好謝謝吳委員勞動部有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7862.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7884.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我這邊再說明一下我想我們是講牢固雙方協商不是工會喔不是限於工會是牢固雙方協商也是考量到整個牢記法的一個法制的體力在牢記法裡面都有牢固雙方協商這樣的字字眼文字是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7884.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7899.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7914.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7925.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這部分我想先保留好了就是因為有不同委員都提這個修正動力版本好像還沒有到完全的共識那我們就先保留來第54條保留那連同那個86條也保留好啦我們先進行第三案待會再回來處理待會再回來處理我們先先 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7940.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7945.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
第四條及第六條條文修正草案案的第七條主管經理有沒有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7971.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7999.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
第一點就是針對第七條大概我們目前的這個中高齡就業法因為依照第七條規定我們已經訂定了中高齡者及高齡的就業促進計劃那現行條文是每三年至少每三年要訂定那其實這個每三年其實有考量到在目前各部位的中程時間一般都是四年但是也是因為我們覺得在中高齡這個整個就業促進上可能必須要把這個時程再把它拉近所以已經把這樣的一個年限做一個適度的一個調降 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
8001.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
8016.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
第二就是這個三年內主要就是我們在計劃訂定前就必須要衡酌當前的勞動就業市場情勢那最主要還是要參考把相關的利害關係人包含這個中高齡受僱團體以及僱主醫學教育學生跟部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
8017.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
8037.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
候選人的意見我們把它整體納入之後來檢討來去訂定那訂定之後整個執行一定要一段時間後那我們會去評估它的整個成效那作為後續我們在每三年訂定的一個參考所以基本上我們在目前的這個執行的情況跟做法其實也經過我們勞動部我們有一個中高齡跟高齡的就業推動小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
8038.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
8055.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
除了討論通過,也認為這是一個失竊的方式。所以第一點就是建議,因為委員有提案是不是修正的每兩年來訂定計劃。那我們是認為目前以每三年,而且我們是每年去滾動式的修正跟監督。我們是比較建議能夠維持現行條文,這是第一點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
8056.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
8073.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
第二點是針對馬文均委員跟邱若驊委員有提案修正以及王正俊委員有修正動議,要增列第二項。那增列第二項主要就是針對我們目前所訂的就業計畫,希望能夠包含就業促進以及職業安全的這個項目。 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
8074.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
8077.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
網站區委員的修正報應版本其實也參考我們現行的專法的施行細則的第三條我們第三條其實針對我們就業計畫裡面應包含的事項其實已經把它民事化包含職業安全、職業訓練、職場友善、植物在熱氣跟推動在就業等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
8094.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
8108.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
除此之外,所有的這些面向都是目前我們的中高齡的就業計劃裡面非常核心的重要,那我們也認為應該有名列的一個必要。所以我們是建議如果要增列第二項的話,是不是能夠建議來參照我們王振旭委員的這個修正動議的版本,把它明確化之後,我們勞動部會去以來執行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
8116.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
8134.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
第三點補充就是針對林月琴委員在甄列第二項這個部分有針對在第六款就是退休後再就業這個部分是建議把文字再做更做一些修正就是能夠把它納入延緩退休繼續工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
8136.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
8137.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
8153.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
8168.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
第四點報告是林委員同時也建議增列第九款。第九款是希望增列推動中高齡者及高齡者部分時間工作模式。基本上在目前的這個部分工作時間這個部分,其實我們勞動部其實也因應整個未來的一個勞動就業的一個彈性的情況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
8172.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
8202.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
8204.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
8205.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
〔法定人數不足〕 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
8210.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
8235.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
8235.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
8238.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
議員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。議員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
8251.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
8253.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
8278.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
8279.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
8303.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
8321.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
主席,我想林業群委員剛剛的說明我是覺得可以認同,我們就是因為我們現在對壯世代的就業尤其退休後再就業我們是希望能夠積極來促成所以我覺得在這邊把那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
8322.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
8345.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
在就業的形態講清楚我就讓勞僱雙方也了解我覺得OK那另外就是那個第九款就是那個部分公司這也的確是壯世代在工作模式上一個非常重要大家需求啦所以我是覺得如果在我們既然要修就把它定名讓大家易於去了解我覺得這也可以接受啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
8356.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8380.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
你們現在修正過後是不是再提一個版本出來?對,就是等於是林委員,照林委員,林瑞琴委員那個版本。他的跟王振旭文字都一樣嗎?沒有,他第六款跟第九款。他第六款跟王委員那邊是不一樣。那另外他第九款的部分,他是針鏈。對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8383.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8385.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8407.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8433.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
好來謝謝那第七條就等勞動部重新修正過後的文字再送上來再通過先保留來接下來是第九條報告委員第九條針對我們的這個中高齡高齡職營手冊那委員是建議是至少每兩年更新這個我們遵照辦理好那遵照辦理就按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8435.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8451.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
本席提案的通過我們就每兩年更新一次這個也是要確保大家得到的資訊可以是比較新的因為中高齡就業本來就比較困難你們有義務提供比較好的職場指引的手冊接下來第26條第26條委員是 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8460.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8481.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
國務卿委員因為提案是針對26條二項那希望能夠增列在營利事業雇用中高齡及高齡的薪資費用減除營利所得稅這個部分那因為這個也涉及到因為財政部跟經濟部那這個我們是建議尊重財政部跟經濟部的意見好來財政部來表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8483.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8500.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
是報告主席那針對呃郭委員這一個提案的部分他主要是想說企業去雇用這個中高齡或高齡的這個員工齁在申報所的稅的時候他針對支付他的這個薪資金額可以百分之一百五十的一個加成去做檢除然後在一千萬的額度內 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8501.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8528.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
除此之外,我們考量說目前新年的中小企業發展條例其實它的條文裡面也有這種徵雇員工的一個加成減除的優惠剛好在今年屆期經濟部跟財政部這邊已經有送了一個行政院的一個提案版本這個提案版本裡面也有包含針對45歲以上的員工如果中小企業這邊去做徵雇的一個動作的話那他的徵雇的這個員工的薪資費用也是可以用150%的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8531.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8533.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
),委員王育敏等19人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案〉 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8559.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8562.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
條例的一個草案來一併來做推動以上報告好那請問各位有沒有意見好如果沒有意見的話那我們26條就維持現行條文好謝謝來第29條 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8574.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8597.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
第29條有王委員還有林岳勤委員的修正動議跟吳村委員的修正動議那29條主要是針對我們現行在這個54條第一項第一款就是強制退休年齡我們針對這個退休再就業是以往前一年那王委員是建議是不是往前兩年吳村委員是建議往前五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8597.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8599.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8614.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8618.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
除了強制退休以外其實目前很多勞工其實他是透過自願退休那尤其是55歲以上自願退休的情況可能這個部分未來是我們在整個勞動力的一個推動的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8635.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8664.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以我們是希望就是說如果我們希望能夠針對退休再就業這個部分能夠讓這樣等的勞動力的開發能夠做更周延的話那應該是要把第53條的這個自請退休這個部分把它一併納入所以我們是建議是不是能夠參採這個林瑞琴委員的修正版本未來我們把這個整個自請退休以及強制退休這個對象一併納入作為我們的一個後續的一個退休再就業的一個主要的一個推動的一個服務對象以上 拜拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8666.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8669.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那個修正東西的條文是不是跟大家講一下是什麼?好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8688.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8708.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
第二九條僱主對於所僱用之中高齡者及高齡者得於其符合勞動基準法第53條或第54條第一項第一款規定時提供退休準備、調適或再就業之相關協助措施但是你這個沒有處理到 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8708.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8722.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
就是原來講的啊你那個原來54條第一項第一款你原條文還有退休前一年我的條文還有前兩年那你改的這個哪一年都沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8725.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8752.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
因為這個54條原來是強制退休的那個65歲前就是64歲那基本上因為我們大概目前大部分其實很多是他是走53條自行退休那一個部分其實是目前我們所掌握到會比較沒有辦法納入到54條第一項第一關的情況我知道你要加53條沒有理解但你沒有處理到原來我提案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8752.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8752.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
),委員王育敏等 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8767.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8768.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
國民黨黨團擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8786.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8788.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8816.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8841.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
獎項獎項獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8842.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8846.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
等19人擬具 工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8859.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8885.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個根文報告原來那個條文是前一年前一年的時間內他才能夠使用我們這個退休債券本來我們的利益是說只要是54條第一項第一款這個年滿65歲的這樣的強制退休當他表達這樣的退休縱使在前兩年前三年我們就可以納入服務當然我們的概念並不是說要去限縮而是論委反而 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8886.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8912.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
但你這樣的修法的文字完全表達不出這樣的意思這感覺是更倒退你們要再修訂了你們這個不夠周圍再想一下來吳委員我們讓吳委員講一下那個這種退休準備當然是越早越好啦那既然呢這一個我覺得我贊成林月琴委員這一個加入第53條啦因為按照53條的話可能可以提早到55歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8913.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8916.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8939.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8955.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
五十三條或五十四條第一項第一款規定退休前五年因為五年大概六十歲就是也跟你前面五十三條的精神會比較一致是不是可以有這樣合併 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8965.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8965.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
第36條 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8981.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
9003.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
第36條大概邱若華委員是提議36條就是建議得改成應應會商中央目的社會服務機關那這部分其實我們目前在執行上依照我們現行也是會商之後我們才會決定所以這個部分我們依照委員的意見我們無意見那至於說另外針對委員建議因為政府應該推動這個長壽產業來未來再讓整個中高齡高齡的就業商能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
9009.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
9012.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
9042.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
9070.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
獎項獎項獎項獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
9083.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
9091.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
除夕可可以先休息讓好我們先休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
9111.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
9113.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
9115.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
9135.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
9139.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
9155.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草案 案 及 工會法第四條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
9157.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
9172.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案 案 〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案 〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 〉 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
9183.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
9208.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
9211.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
9234.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
除此之外﹑其中一人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案﹑其中一人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案﹑其中一人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案﹑其中一人擬具:「工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
9240.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
9242.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
9260.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
9278.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 規範規範規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規規 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
9281.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
9302.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。閱讀委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。閱讀委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。案。閱讀委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。案。閱讀委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。案。閱讀委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
9303.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
9319.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 〈一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
9320.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
9339.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 〈一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
9340.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
9357.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 〈一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
9357.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9377.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 項目第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 項目第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 項目第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9381.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9405.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9409.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9428.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9434.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9452.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 〖一〗〗〗〗〗〗〗〗〗〗〗 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9459.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9476.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9479.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9487.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
國民黨黨團擬具《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9495.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9498.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
除此之外,五年這單位其實是福利條款,對,對,對,對啊,對,對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9514.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9515.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
公務部長跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9539.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9545.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
》委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案。 »: |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9779.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9779.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
經濟部表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9791.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9811.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
委員好 那個經濟部主要就是說其實政府其實這幾年非常重視這個高齡產業的發展那事實上那個行政院國科會他有一個國科會有提供一個叫做高齡科技產業的行動計畫在推動那事實上整個高齡科技產業在推動的部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9812.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9829.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
), 委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案 案件,包括了衛福部、文化部、經濟部、數位部,所有部會都有。經濟部表達,有很多部會都跟高齡產業有關。至於第36條條文的部分,經濟部沒有意見。」經濟部沒有意見,所以勞動部這邊也沒有意見嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9838.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9860.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
條及第六條條文修正草案案。 »: 如果沒有意見的話,36條就按丘若驊委員提案的版本通過。如果沒有意見的話,36條就按丘若驊委員提案的版本通過。我們回過頭來處理剛剛保留的部分。我們先勞基法。勞基法第54條的部分,文字的部分因為有幾個版本。文字的部分因為有幾個版本。 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9861.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9888.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
委員都還有修正動議,那現在有沒有確定?有溝通好那個文字了嗎?好,來。 我要公布說明一下剛剛有溝通感謝吳委員還有感謝林委員大家都支持王振旭委員提的修正動議的版本第54條依照王振旭委員提的修正動議好,那如果大家沒有意見的話第54條按照修正動議版本通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9890.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9916.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那那個第86條的部分剛剛也溝通就是說其實因為現行就已經可以勞資雙方協商了所以不需要再另訂實施日期86條就維持現行的條文好86條維持現行條文通過好那有關於第二案就是處理完畢就是按照好我念一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9918.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9941.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
做以下決議,勞動基準法第54條及第86條條文修正草案計兩案審查完略並按擬具審查報告提報院會討論。院會討論本案時由王昭吉委員欲明補充說明,不須交由黨團協商。好,那接下來我們處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9942.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9968.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法條文修正草案來第七條的部分跟委員報告第七條跟林業勤委員的溝通那第七條最後的修正就是在第六款第六款文字就是推動中高齡者及高齡者之延緩退休及退休後再就業句號 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9969.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9970.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
除此之外, |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9977.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
10006.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
第二項就是第二項這個部分要配合修正就是地方主管機關應依前二項就業計畫結合轄區產業特性推動中高齡者及高齡者就業那這兩個部分是依照剛剛所提到的那不要再補充那個第九款第一項第九款就是文字是推動中高齡者及高齡者之部分時間工作模式句號 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
10008.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
10020.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
公認跟林委員大概也溝通齁是依照這樣的文字做修正好那有關於呃第七條就按照勞動部修正的文字通過好來接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
10022.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
10046.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
第29條在原來的文字上針對剛剛委員所提到的第54條這個部分好像確實會有一個問題所以這個部分我們是建議第29條的文字在參考剛剛在委員所提供的修正意見做一個綜合之後我們建議修正文字是這樣僱主對於所僱用之中高齡者及高齡者 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
10047.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
10069.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
則於其符合勞動基準法第53條規定時逗號或第54條第一項第一款前二年內提供退休準備、調適或再就業之相關協助措施。這個部分我們是覺得會比較周延跟妥適。好,那就按照勞動部修正的文字通過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
10076.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
10099.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
第九條,原來委員提供職場職營手冊,並至少每二年更新一次。這個我們沒有意見,但是因為法治用語,就是每兩年改成每二年,因為那個二是法治文字。按照剛剛勞動部修正的文字通過第九條。 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
10101.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
10102.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
條及第六條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
10118.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
10144.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
考量勞動部已依中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條會商各部會定定為期三年之中高齡者及高齡者就業促進計劃,為督促勞動部落實辦理。請勞動部定期每年依當前勞動情勢適時精進與調整計劃措施,以為中高齡者及高齡者就業權益提升勞參率。提案人委員林月琴、聯署人委員王振旭、黃秀芳、劉建國、陳盈宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
10147.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
10175.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那針對這項附帶決議主管有沒有意見?沒有意見。沒有意見我們就通過。好。那做以下決議。中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法部分條文修正草案計四案審查完畢並按擬具審查報告提報院會討論。院會討論本案時由王昭吉委員譽名補充說明不須交由黨團協商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
10177.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
10197.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
獎項獎項獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
10219.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
10224.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
10258.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
10262.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
10281.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
10304.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16次全體委員會議．立法院第16次全體委員會議．立法院第17次全體委員會議．立法院第18次全體委員會議．立法院第19次全體委員會議．立法院第20次全體委員會議．立法院第21次全體委員會議．立法院第22次全體委員會議．立法院第23次全體委員會議．立法院第24次全體委員會議．立法院第27次全體委員會議．立法院第28次全體委員會議．立法院第29次全體 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
10308.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
10319.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
議員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。議員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
10325.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
10334.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
10355.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
10374.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
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