| IVOD_ID |
159029 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159029 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-12T11:42:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-12T11:58:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/068df7098ba6a5ff39c6a6906d07e10a42177c27e96a004534bb49d22970db3945705032a5a81be55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:42:39 - 11:58:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議（事由：一、「中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案」覆議案（3月11日）。二、「財政收支劃分法」第八條、第十六條之一及第三十條條文覆議案（3月12日）。） |
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謝謝敬愛的院長邀請我們卓院長麻煩請卓院長養果園好院長好我們針對財務法我們來做討論我們看到院長你在修法前財務法我們都知道你也擔任過民意代表 |
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25年來沒修整整25年受到經費不公平的這個國人可以說是從出生受教育到使用社會建設福利等都是不平等的請教左院長你認同這句話嗎 |
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84.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
但是隨著中央地方財政的狀況的調整現在地方的財政顯然是比20多年前要好一些當然我不能說完全沒有完全的解決地方的問題但是我們像今年我們給地方的財政的資源就高達1兆零151億這也是史上最高的謝謝你的回答這是史上最高這個全國的國人都聽到這一句話剛剛那一句話不是我說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
85.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
107.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
是貴黨、執政黨、民進黨的前主席行政院的前院長蘇貞昌先生所說的那我必須要說早在1999年當時政府將經省錢的中央跟地方的收入全部由我們全國總收入的比例是六成比四成改為75%比25% |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
110.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
137.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就是說從地方搶錢來給中央集權所以在2012年的時候蘇貞昌先生跟當時的市長現在的總統賴清德先生柯建民先生召開了記者會他都認為地方縣市經費不足很窮蘇貞昌先生還說了一句他說縣市首長在編列預算的時候就像媽媽看著孩子嗷嗷待哺 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
139.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
162.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
但是呢 美人仔裡面是沒命的啊 這樣子的苦我相信地方財政的不公平 而且不夠的這個現象由於這一句話可以顯示非常的清楚所以本席要再一次的請問 你是否支持我們的財化法在現階段應該要修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
163.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
186.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
可以進行合理的討論不過早上我在口頭報告的時候我加了一段就是剛剛委員所說的經省的時候之前有11%是屬於省政府的經費的稅率跟支出是移撥到中央的所以才會從4比6變成25對75其中有11%本來在省政府是移到中央來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
187.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
206.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那如果現在要回到4比6的話那這11%原來省政府由中央承接的業務難道要全部可以回到地方嗎地方有這樣的能力承接嗎你現在這個言語就代表著您所領軍的這個團隊他是不用心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
208.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
228.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你現在告訴民眾大家都認為專家 學者 社會大眾都認為必須財化要修但是你的事權你到現在才講這些到底你們執政黨到目前為止做了哪些我們繼續討論本席要再告訴你在2017年的時候賴總統 現任的賴總統 賴院長支持財化化 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
234.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
255.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
支持才化法而且他特別說了他說什麼呢他的態度是說修改才化法能夠給地方更多的經費以及地方創生發展地方的經濟所以本需要請教現在的卓院長你支持賴院長的論述嗎請說說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
258.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
268.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這種論述沒有錯就是多給地方的經費也要帶去更多的事權好一句這種論述沒有錯要帶去更多的事權我們繼續來討論我們要討論就不能斷章取義院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
275.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
287.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
請尊重我們議會的質詢時間暫停一下因為我會好好的時間跟你說明但是你不能還沒有請你回答 你就如此你也不用動怒我們現在是在討論跟論述好 謝謝院長 以上見言 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
298.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
接下來我們繼續討論財務法這一次的修以台中市為基準我們看到剛剛為什麼本席要讓你也充分的來說明我們要提起這一些的往事 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主要就是要讓社會大眾以及院長你了解才華化25年來沒修的確是需要要修因為地方長期的這個才華不公這也是過去到現在藍綠的一個共識藍綠的一個共識所以我們看到現在到目前還沒有行政院的版本這樣子的一個帶墮我要告訴我們的卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
344.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
351.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
賴清德當市長的時候 當院長的時候我相信他全力支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
352.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
379.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以呢也就是如果我們這一次修的財務法等於是原了賴清德總統當時當市長當院長以及蘇貞昌先生他當時當院長他們所提出的論述也就是承諾政治承諾的一個政策承諾所以在這邊我要告訴您也就是說不管是在中央或者是在地方通通這些財源都是為了人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
379.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
但是不要單方面的一把抓的一個錯誤心態因此我要告訴你財化法攸關了全國22縣市的一個權益這個比例的分配是讓地方首長能夠更有財源的依據能夠好好的來照顧我們整個民生交通建設社福就像台中市我們所分配的是增加了262億 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
408.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
425.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是我們反觀給卓院長說明台中市每一年上繳中央的經費2000億以上大家都肯定這一次的修法是幫助我們地方台中市目前的現況我們的人口急劇是286萬人急劇在增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
444.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
每一個縣市的條件不一所以因此我們今年更是建設年我們不管是捷運不管是道路的打通不管是我們的巨蛋有很多都必須地方來做配合款以及自籌款 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
445.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
458.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以因此在這樣的情況之下本席要強調這個財務法的修訂是讓我們台中市政府在整個地方的發展有及時雨有及時雨所以我在這邊更要強調這不是加錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
461.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
478.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這只是拿回我們應該要有的一個公平待遇所以我再一次的要請問院長你認為在現階段我們是不是20年5年沒修的財務法應該要修請教卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
479.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
495.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我贊成財化法大家能夠理性的討論讓他進到一個合理的階段跟委員報告今年就算依照原來的財化法今年就算依照原來的財化法台中市政府的年度總預算還是成長了7.67%還是成長了7.67% |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
499.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
523.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
成長的7.67%表示我們台中市政府盧秀燕市長領軍的台中隊不分藍綠大家一起支持我們的建設我們給台中也相當多的補助台中的捷運都是同樣做的吧我拿我數字告訴你我們上繳了2000多億台中的捷運應該我們的有多少所以接下來本席要告訴你採訪法如果修補好 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
524.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
542.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
台灣的財政不會好這是政大的財經教授他所提出那連我們的蔡英文總統也說要修財化法那麼民進黨執政了八年賴總統也執政了一年多為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
543.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
568.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
到現在全國大家藍綠都認為必須要修未甚至剛剛我們的這個執政黨的委員質詢你的時候也說一個行政院行政體系應該要負責任你什麼時候可以提出版本所以請教請教卓院長你什麼時候可以提出版本我們的版本一直手上都有版本就是用這個版本在跟地方在談 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
570.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
手上都有版本立法院在審議的時候你們為什麼不送版本出來為什麼不討論為什麼不跟地方來討論呢12月20號為什麼在表決之前的那個禮拜有機會讓我們提出任何的說明嗎院長 韓院長不可以反諮詢請問不可以反諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
596.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
602.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 謝謝我想再次呼籲委員跟官員因為我們這次這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
604.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
626.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我還是呼籲一下大家互相尊重那請不要搶答也請委員給官員有適當說明時間再次感謝時間繼續謝謝接下來這個禮拜發生的是什麼事情蔡英文總統執政八年賴總統執政一年您反質詢我說這個禮拜發生什麼事情我告訴你我告訴你財政部長在你身邊來我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
632.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
651.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
为什么2月27号复议案的时候你说对财务法修法你一直有方案有准备但是没有机会来提出你的方案这个您说的但是在6月份的时候你说什么呢你说财务法不会有行政院的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
678.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這是你說的那個時候啊11月15號還是一樣的卓榮泰院長你說什麼你說現行的裁判法版本最好執行也最有把握那我本期要請教你剛剛訪問我的請問哪一個在說謊哪一個是真正目前我們的行政院長所心裡願意要做的動作請做說明事實就是手上一直有不同的方案在跟地方談 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
679.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
683.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那它還沒有到最後形成一個願用版之前它就不是形成願用版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
684.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
711.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
非常好我們也希望透過這樣的結局讓社會大眾知道在二月份你講了什麼話在六月份你告訴我們不會有行政院的修法版本在十月份的時候你又告訴我們說現在的版本是最好的換句話說六月份跟十月份你是認為根本不用修但是還好二月份你可能聽到社會大眾的心聲所以你願意修這個是我歡喜的我們繼續來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
714.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
742.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那既然大家認為我們可以好好的來討論所以本席要再一次的請教再一次的請教之前可以好好討論那麼多的時間你們不提出等到立法院三讀通過之後你們要提復議有人質疑是不是為了選舉我當然不願意本席不願意這麼說但是要請教如果今天下午復議案你們是失敗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
744.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
760.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
請問你們在整個財權跟私權的方面你會怎麼做呢你會提出你的版本嗎我再一次重複說剛剛我們執政黨的委員都希望行政部門必須要負責任的提出版本請教卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
761.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
789.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們的方案都有我們會繼續跟地方談談出一個合理可行可長可久的一個方案出來合理可行可長換句話說應該要調整財源的分配是嗎我們從來沒有拒絕討論這件事情好 所以你是贊同的嘛這個就是理順的一個討論現行已經通過的版本現行是必須要理性的來討論財源的一個分配嘛現行這個修正法是有它內部很大的問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
791.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
813.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以我們終於有了一個方向也就是目前的現行階段針對25年來未修的財化法我們是有修的這個必要這是我們剛才討論到最後現階段我們一個方向應該是我們兩個有共識部長也一直跟地方在結條部長也一直跟地方在溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
813.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
840.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以是有共識嗎?有共識也就是要修你才要去溝通嘛一直有在進行是因為認定結果論就是要修所以你們也在溝通嘛是不是如此?去認定目前的財務法不是適用於現在階段所以你們也在溝通,是不是如此?現在階段也沒有不是,就是他最有把握但是我們一直在進行跟地方的溝通那希望能夠達到最好的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
842.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
864.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以卓院長,你也曾經說過,如果現在修裁划法,會讓中央空虛但是我還是本期要告訴你,藍綠的委員都希望行政院要負責任也就是說,不能只有拿錢,不能只有分錢,而不去分責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
865.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以這個事權是非常非常的重要是非常非常的重要所以本期要請教如果今天下午的復議案是失敗的中央地方要如何分工合作要如何分擔責任跟義務 請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
885.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
907.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
跟委員報告我們還是希望大院能夠真正去審視一下我們看的副議的理由請針對本席的提問你們要怎麼樣去分工如果副議沒有辦法能夠通過的話我覺得這個部分會在執行上會有很大的一個治安請針對本席的提問中央地方如何分工合作那你們認為要如何分擔責任跟義務請院長回答我會重新檢討比方說未來的軌道建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
913.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
934.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
要跟地方如何再談是分配的比例要調整還是時間要延長還有未來的公路的建設是要如何分擔責任是不是要有一些下放到地方政府讓地方政府去維護或是一些興建那麼未來的防洪治水中央負責的部分地方負責的部分要重新界限 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
935.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
945.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 我充分給院長您說明我要給你一個結論一個負責任的行政團隊在整個財政的影響評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
946.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
965.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
如果不具透明性不具專業審視過那這個政府是會長的危機所以要請教卓院長剛剛你還沒有回答你要如何的分工我希望你要好好的審視如何的來分工這是人民要聽到的楊卓英委我現在可以宣布中午休息嗎 |