| IVOD_ID |
159024 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159024 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-12T10:18:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-12T10:33:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/068df7098ba6a5ff9ad952610febadb142177c27e96a0045d3c01a7dfd44c4696249bd8a06f3bcbd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃珊珊 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:18:27 - 10:33:59 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議（事由：一、「中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案」覆議案（3月11日）。二、「財政收支劃分法」第八條、第十六條之一及第三十條條文覆議案（3月12日）。） |
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謝謝主席我請院長那請卓院長黃議員好院長好我想今天是財化法的復議案也是非常重要下午就要投票我想院長到立法院來當然希望能夠說服委員復議案的內容但是我想我進到立法院一年的時間這一年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
57.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
行政院包括民進黨的立法院黨團對於才化法應該都不陌生我們在上個會期通過但是我們在第一個會期就已經提案而且院長上任520的時候我相信各黨團也都有跟你報告我們要把才化法列為優先法案是嗎你應該都知道吧我知道所以院長今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
64.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
88.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
你們到這邊來財化法是從賴清德市長到賴清德院長還有蕭美琴立委以及柯建民總召在立法院的時候都提過要修正的最重要的法案之一但是我們看到執政黨在這場財化法的討論協商的過程裡面不溝通不解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
90.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
118.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我甚至發現我們是只會造謠撕裂台灣這是我非常非常難過的地方因為財化法的版本台灣民眾黨在四月份就已經提出來而且也請財政部去提出他們所謂的事權分配或者是他們的計算方式甚至是你們現在使用的公式我們都來幫你入法沒有人理我們台灣民眾黨的版本跟國民黨的版本不一樣民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
121.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
135.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
寧可完全不支持不討論也不願意接受支持民眾黨的版本這點是我們在立法院最遺憾的事院長我想問你一下接下來你要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
139.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
159.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
兩點先跟委員報告過去財化法跟現在過去的中央跟地方的財政跟現在是不一樣101年地方財政你這些講的我們都聽過了我現在只問你今天以後你的下一步是什麼你的下一步是市縣還是公投很多我們的溝通方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
160.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
166.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
有些委員是知道的我們曾經嘗試過溝通有的溝通是沒有溝通的你拒絕溝通的次數有些委員是清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
204.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
院長那我就分享一下怎麼溝通協委員不敢跟我們溝通也是鐵的事實台北市政府每一個議員都有一位專門的聯絡人去了解他所有的意見第二個我身為副市長當總聯絡人我要知道每一個議員的意見第三個如果沒有辦法處理我是副市長我要親自帶隊去跟每一位委員溝通我在立法院這一年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
205.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
207.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
尤其才化法大概只有部長來找找我 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
208.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
235.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主計長來找找我 我沒有見過行政院的高層包括秘書長 副秘書長 甚至院長來跟我們討論有關財化法的機構部長 主計長 當然就代表行政院 代表整個政府啊我覺得溝通的問題是我在選走預算的時候 我直接告訴你有民進黨的立法委員跑過來跟我們說拜託我們拿個預算要怎麼辦我說為什麼是委員來說明他說因為部會首長被下令不能來溝通有這回事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
262.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們沒有下這個令所以是民進黨的委員騙我們了不是沒有下這個令說不能溝通我的意思是說溝通是重要的但是現在的行政院包括相關的黨團只會放話只會要挾這一點不是國家之福所以我想問你下一步你要做什麼事實就有一點出入了所以下一步呢 您的下一步是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
275.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
您的下一步是釋憲還是要公投一項案跟財化法好像是不能公投的只要合法合憲的程序在復議案沒有辦法成立之後我們都會考量所以下一步還不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
301.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
希望等一下的這個表決對財化法方面王委員能夠跟過去一樣有所堅持我再跟您說明一下我們的版本非常的清楚我們把施行的日期都延到一年之後我們把所謂的水平分配由所謂的委員會來做相關的分配不會訂出相關這麼嚴格的公式但是你們不理我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
302.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
也沒有人要理我們這才是問題明明可以好好討論的事情因為行政院的漠視所以不願意處理我們的版本我們8票投自己啊你們51票沒有投我們啊這個不要怪我只能怪你們如果你們51票投我們的話我們的版本是會通過的所以今天的問題是咎由自取 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個最嚴重的是 財化法通過之後我們的行政院發言人第一時間出來說這樣子喔 114年的預算要從編馬上立刻下所有的人民 所有的立委所以部長 你們114年的預算有從編嗎沒有從編 而且我們沒有從編所以他是恐嚇人民 還是隨便亂說話已經送予大院審議院長 你也應該知道你的發言人說過這樣的話嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
360.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
從放話到要挾非常要不得另外一個我想問一下接下來115年的預算要怎麼編我們期待財化法能夠有更合理的討論在中央所以今天復議案不通過之後115年的預算你們編還是不編 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
400.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
預算當然是要編 要如何編 要怎麼編我們要努力讓它發生到 還有新法編還是又要去釋憲然後用假處分來卡住所有的預算地方政府要怎麼編你要不要告訴我一下我們可以用你剛剛說的那兩個方式之外 還有其他方式什麼方式 也可以重新請大家提出一個新的版本你現在不告訴我們你的方式我們的國家要停擺嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
402.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
427.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們不是沒有溝通就是新法 法通過了就是要執行我們這裡很多的方案都是在12月20號以前要來談的12月20號以前要來那個禮拜立法院大院裡面的程序有可以談的時間空間嗎我們今天已經是附議案的投票前的詢問你還是沒有任何的方案只有一個方案就是我要去大罷免 是嗎我沒有這麼說 我以為你怎麼可以這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
432.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
451.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我這樣看起來你們只有一個方案啊如果一個沒有辦法治國的榮譽大罷免是不是你的偏方我們的方案就在這裡因為20號以前就要談了這是沒有機會談你的方案是什麼我現在在尋答請你回答我你的方案是什麼你有忠責中信的版本嗎你有你們行政院的版本了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
452.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
474.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
當然有拿出來啊 我們大家也許可以考慮啊那個階段我們是希望在立法院裡面今天有沒有 拿不拿出來讓我們看到你的版本 我們去討論一下也許會考慮啊所以 院長 到今天這個時刻沒有版本 是嗎有版本跟地方在談啊跟地方在談 不用跟立法院談 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
475.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
500.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
跟要投你復议票的立法委员党团要跟地方谈到有一个共识之后我们形成一个所以现在的问题就是我们的行政院到復议这一天都还没有端出你们的所谓的院板来跟立法院的党团来说明地方沟通的状况跟委员说明我们在3月6号邀请专家学者还有地方政府来开会第一个就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
500.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
妳的3月6號是2025年的3月6號12月就通過了妳3月6號在開什麼會啊妳在演戲嗎在總預算裡面在審查的時候委員還有提案要求我們去年6月就叫妳提版本了整整8個月 院長妳上任的時候520到現在整整8個月到通過的時候整整8個月 件事情都沒做 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
533.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
從我們要求你們6月19號要求你們通過歷史提案要求行政院提版本到12月整整6個月院長也應該很清楚部長更清楚最重要的是到今天復議案你還是沒有願板如果你今天有願板也許拿出來我們可以考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
556.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
583.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是沒有院版的情況下我們如何通過今天的服役案第二個如果只是拿過來要證明行政院又是一個悲情內閣我覺得沒有必要接下去要為你們的大罷免加柴火嗎所以院長你支持大罷免嗎大罷免是民間人民團體所提出的跟行政院的業務無關所以跟你沒關係所以你支持還是不支持呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
585.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
614.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們是維護人民的各種參政權利我們不會去表態支持或不支持政治的立場那接下來的問題是現在接下去大罷免會是行政院到下鄉開講的內容之一嗎無關財化法的討論過程院長知道吧這個過程非常的清楚喔非常多次四月份我們就提案了內容財政部非常清楚一直到協商完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
614.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
634.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
重點是行政院為什麼一直不願意談因為錢跟權太像了集錢集權是行政院最大的權利最嚴重的是我覺得就是剛剛你講的提了服役案你們是現在才召開遵循會議是不是演太大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
635.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
663.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們不是現在才召開會議委員你這樣是誤會了2025年3月開會12月通過然後2025年3月開會請問在這中間有找過三個黨團來做協商嗎有跟台灣民眾黨有跟國民黨團來做協商說你們要提中間版本嗎當然有跟黨團提過跟誰提過啊好像只有找了 政委要找各黨團總召私下密會不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
664.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
694.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
什麼叫私下密會昨天黃國昌總召已經說了你們派政委馬永成要來私下密會不是嗎他可以這樣說他得罪的是他的朋友好所以結論就是現場我再說的是開大門走大路不需要做這件事立法院我覺得就很簡單就如同行政單位只要你願意我相信每個委員都想聽你們的東西我也很想知道院版我也很想知道你們接下來想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
695.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
714.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
提出的折衷方案但是沒有折衷方案只希望大家起義來歸是不會成功的有機會讓我們談嗎接下來的事喔你們拒絕談判談的次數有多少我們從頭到尾沒有拒絕我黃珊珊財政部來過幾次了我的版本就長在那邊從頭到尾我就說這個版本請你們考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
716.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
721.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
從頭到尾我的立場都一樣所以也就是說我剛剛講的我們說了很清楚我們的時間壓在一年後我們的分配公式交給國園會沒有影響到你們的內容這個部分沒有談嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
736.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
758.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
但是垂直分配跟水平分配的事情財政部還有更精密的算法所以重點是你們連這兩條都不支持我們的版本才會產生今天的結果最後為什麼要這樣院長雖然潛在運算不是你任內的但是8400億是前任政府的但他的內容都是在搶地方的工作不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
759.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
775.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
前瞻建設政府用舉債的方式去搶了地方本來就應該做的事這不就是財化法應該要把該給地方的錢還給地方讓地方做他該做的事嗎前瞻建設做什麼鋪馬路修房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
776.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
804.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
治水 蓋停車場 做觀光建設哪一件事情不是地方該做的事當然該做但是要把錢給地方做它本來就該做的事而不是把錢全部留在你中央由你中央來統籌讓你做什麼 做聖誕老公公你們最厲害的是什麼行政院最厲害的是把發給所有民眾的錢的最後存摺那一塊上面加一個行政院發這就是跟地方政府搶功勞嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
805.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
833.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這不是搶功勞搶政績只想要讓中央讓地方變成看中央的臉色做事啊我常常說沒有一件事行政院可以單獨完成一定要立法院合作也沒有一件事中央可以單獨完成一定要立法院合作但是你們沒有要跟立法院合作最後我想問一下現在行政院要不要繼續擺爛115年的概算你們到底要怎麼編你的解決方案是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
835.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
863.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們會尋求一個最合理的財政收支發動法的方式來做負議案的當天沒有辦法回答我們一百一十五年的預算怎麼編列這一點是非常可怕我們今天談的是負議案不是談一個行政院的版本所以一百一十五年的預算就要編了我們今天如果提出一個行政版本委員就會支持負議案嗎不可能嗎所以我認為如果你今天提出一個版本我們可能會支持啊如果今天提出一個版本我們為什麼可能會不支持呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
865.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
882.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
副議案就是讓我們有重新談的機會我們的版本就在我的手上這個案子一發生之後 組計長第一時間告訴全世界我們所有的預算 每一個部會的預算都要捅殺28%這是從3753寫下來的這個還是我們最大的問題是 這個行政院不想說明 只想造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
889.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
901.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
最後一個問題委員你又用造謠兩個字這不應該從委員的嘴巴裡面講出來我看到的造謠不應該這麼說 公獎金不能發了國防預算受影響了育兒今天不能發這不是造謠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
902.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
907.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
20年前的謝院長他說了一句話共生和解協商對話這些原則要一言一行去證明這個狀態的落實您當時是行政院秘書長請問你有什麼感想 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
930.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
930.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好 謝謝黃珊珊瑋 |