| IVOD_ID |
15898 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15898 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-09T08:35:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-09T12:28:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:52:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc5da7963983a35b0d6c89f6306fc014403be8d109af184be4f6e2dec8e1b7e2715ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部及金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「強制執行保單解約償債未符比例原則紛爭頻傳亂象如何解」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:08 - 12:28:00 |
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SPEAKER_18 |
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SPEAKER_18 |
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SPEAKER_18 |
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14048.90721875 |
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14049.91971875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1504.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1529.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
報告委員會出席委員8人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議議事錄實驗中華民國113年5月8日星期三上午9時1分至10時34分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員陳委員俊宇等13人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1530.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1551.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
列席為麥文玉珍等12人．列席官員、立法院秘書長周萬來等人．主席、中召集委員、嘉賓。報告事項．宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定。討論事項繼續審查民進黨黨團擬拒立法委員行為法第7條之一及第30條條文修正草案等5案。決議以上個案均另定期繼續審查。經表決通過散會動議。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1557.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1562.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
好,那麼因為在場委員人數尚未達所以我們議事錄稍後確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1563.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1591.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那接下來介紹在道場委員及應邀列席官員先介紹在場委員謝榮介委員歡迎接下來介紹司法院吳三榮秘書長歡迎您還有法務部行政執行署黃玉元署長歡迎您金融監督管理委員會保險局施琼華局長歡迎您財政部負稅署宋秀琳署長歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1594.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1599.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
其餘未及介紹的列席代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1602.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1627.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
本次議程除邀請司法院、法務部及金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就《強制執行保單解約償債未符比例原則紛爭頻傳亂象如何解》進行專題報告．並備質詢。另有報告事項五案及討論事項三案之113年度司法院預算解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1628.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1650.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那麼今天的會議進行程序呢先請機關代表就專題報告及預算解凍案一併報告那麼詢答時呢採綜合詢答詢答完畢後再按照議程報告事項及討論事項依序主案處理那麼現在先請機關代表報告發言時間5分鐘那請司法院吳秘書長報告請一併報告解凍案請 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1665.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1687.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主席、各位委員、各位機關代表各位先生、各位女士那麼本人僅代表司法院因為有兩項報告那先就這個這個強制執行保單解約償債未符比例原則紛爭頻傳亂象如何解這個專題進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1692.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1721.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那麼從這個最高法院在111年12月19日做成108年度抬抗大致第891號裁定以來那麼這個債權人向執行法院申請強制執行使申請查刑債務人對第三人的人壽保險企業債權那麼大幅增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1724.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1740.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
從112年1月1日到113年3月為止各執行法院依依申請人申請向中華民國人壽保險商業同業工會查詢債務人投保資料一共有234,090件核發扣押命令有34,680件核發執行命令終止 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1751.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1764.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
財務人為要保人的人壽保險企業一共有8712件目前全國一共有21家保險公司其中兩家保險公司的總公司營業所 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1766.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1791.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
設在臺灣士林地方法院那麼其餘19家保險公司總公司營業所都在這個臺北地方法院所以這個相關的執行事務因為大多數集中在臺北地院跟士林地院所以這類的強制執行已經造成這兩個法院很沉重的負荷 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1793.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1816.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那麼因為這個執行法院就這個各該執行案件因為如何執行,取決於債權人守持執行名義的內容而定那麼債權人申請強制執行依法那麼在書狀因為參照強制執行法第五條第一項第二項的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1818.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1820.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
必須要在名執行債務人請求實現的權利內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1826.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1852.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
一、對債務人的何種標的義務執行以及請求執行法院為如何的執行行為等事項這些都要在明那麼倘若債權人在這個申請強制執行的書狀已經在明那麼一、執行債務人對某保險公司的受險企業債權那麼執行法院就應該要按照這個執行法的相關規定來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1856.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1878.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那麼以及這個也要依照這個上述108年度抬抗大致第897號的裁定意旨本以公平合理的原則兼顧債權人債務人以及其他利害關係人的權益那麼在補預業達成執行目的的必要性範圍內以適當的方法為之並且賦予 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1883.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1887.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在錢人、債務人以及利害關係人陳事異見的機會有鑑於受險企業償戶有傷害保險等 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1895.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1909.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
健康等保險執行法院在紀理個案裁量的時候是否行使終止前來執行解約金的債權必須要審酌兼顧債權人、債務人及其他利害關係人的權益選擇對債務人損害最少的方法為之 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1919.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1927.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
再則,債務人如果不符執行命令的話也可以聲明異議此外,像微型的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1929.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1949.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1951.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1969.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在借錢人能夠不以這一類的保險來為執行標的物應該也可以避免這類紛爭以上報告另外一案就是很感謝大院貴委員會安排本院報告113年度的預算凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1978.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1982.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那麼敬請這個能夠肺炎同一解凍啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1983.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2004.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
其中所列113年度中央政府總預算結議稅資第四款第一項結議三、四、六、七十八、七十九等五項凍結案以及討論四項所列上述結議一、二、五等三項凍結案也很懇請能夠會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2011.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2016.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
同意解凍以利業務能夠順利推動以上報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2031.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2040.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
沒有,那麼15確定。好,那接下來分別有3個機關代表,我們分別報告時間較為簡短,3分鐘。那接下來請法務部黃署長,請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2049.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2059.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士先生。近日奉邀列席會員會就《強制執行保單解約償債未符合比例原則》進行專題報告．並備質詢。只報告內容、詳如書面並簡單口頭補充報告如下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2066.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2090.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為111年12月9日最高法院108年台抗大致第897號民事裁定之後相關的人壽保險契約得為強制執行之課題之後本署積極參酌有關於該裁定理由皆是保障邀保人等家屬的生活安定社會功能及執行機關應該裁量是否終止 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2091.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2108.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
該等權利時應先通知當事人及利害關心人的意見,依《強制執行法》第1條及122條等的規定,妥適地兼顧債權人及債務人的相關權益,審慎為之而為公平合理之衡量,之僅就本屬因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2110.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2125.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
民事大法庭的裁定之後我們妥適的作為如下首先在今年1月8號及4月22號本署召開了兩次專家諮詢會議特別邀請了保險業者還有主管單位還有一些學者共同來研商針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2127.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2149.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
民事大法庭應該如何來予以處理那最後呢我們在今年的4月26號以通函的方式請我們13個分數基於以下的基本原則第一個一定要先調查有關於義務人的財產狀況該人壽保險契約他的性質為何到底是否兼具醫療健康等等性質那 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2150.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2166.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
同時他的覆約裡面有沒有所謂的醫療等等問題第二個執行各個分署在執行的時候應該先妥適的評估也就是該等客體他的執行的實際的成效如何比方說他的保 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2167.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2171.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第三、為了符合大法庭裁定的指示,我們應該要先通知當事人包含的移送機關,請他們表示意見。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2185.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2198.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
最後呢更應該要審視該等契約如果中止之後是否會影響到有關於弱勢義務人我們是否有替代方式比方說用分期繳納或者請他提供其他的擔保等等方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2201.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2219.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
當然,如果該等執行命令因為移送機關認為金額不必那麼大有撤回的時候,我們會立刻跟保險公司這邊說是否暫緩為之等等。為了了解該等保險契約它的性質如何,本人也特別在今年4月24號特別去拜訪的保險局司局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2220.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2223.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
從111年12月9日大法庭裁定做成之後到今年4月30日行政執行署總共執行了4254萬件 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2247.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2249.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
謝謝黃處長接下來有請金融監督管理委員會市局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2285.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2295.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席還有各位委員先進大家好今天陳貴委員會邀請向各位委員就強制執行保單解約償債未符比例原則紛爭頻傳亂象如何解進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2298.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2302.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
最高法院108年民事大法庭裁定主文執行法院與必要時得合法執行命令終止 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2321.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2337.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
債務人為藥保人之人受保險契約命第三人保險公司償付結約金肯認債權人得申請就債務人為藥保人之人受保險契約強制執行為裁定理由第5點亦載明 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2339.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2342.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
實務執行面所面臨的問題主要有幾點第一個部分是大量的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2361.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2375.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
案件湧入,造成一些作業面的衝擊。民事大法庭裁定後,債權人就債務人的授權契約向法院申請強制執行或移送行政執行,執行案件數量驟增。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2378.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2397.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那這個部分也造成受險公會還有受險公司相應來自執行機關請求要協助查詢以及執行之案件量激增那受險公司接到這個債權人與債務人不斷進見、推薦還有抱怨跟申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2398.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2416.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那另外就是債務人保險契約的解約金如果金額過低遭強制執行後雖可少量填補債權但保險契約遭解約後保險權益即屬喪失那這個部分嚴重影響後續被保險人的生活保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2416.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2416.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
〔記者註冊〕 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2439.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2439.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
本會在相應的作為裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2469.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2498.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
而第一個部分我們有這個責成受選公司就這個保護就被強制執行對著流生活所必須的這個相關救濟規定我們責成受選公司應主動關懷保護那同時呢也要協助這個保護來向法院提出申請或聲明意義來維護相關的權益那第二個部分是避免這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2499.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2499.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
第三個部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2527.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2555.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們大概目前將協助這個研議訂定這個執行機關研議訂定保險契約強制執行的參考原則那同時來簡化相關的作業流程來簡化這個執行機關以及受選工會以及我們的受選公司的相關的作業面所以這個執行原則我們目前正在研擬當中那這裡包括這個執行原則之外還有一個選總的歸類參考表 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2557.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2557.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
以上報告,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2588.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2592.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好謝謝市局長接下來請財政部宋署長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2598.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2617.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
主席、各位委員先進、大家好。金益誠貴委員會邀請就《強制執行保單解約償債未符比例原則紛爭頻傳亂象如何解》進行專題報告。那有關最高法院民事大法庭108年度的裁定,剛才相關機關都有做了一些相關的解釋。 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2618.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2645.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那以下我就就我們本部各地區國會局以欠稅人為要保人的人壽保險契約作為強制執行標的的做法簡要說明如下進行指教那為了落實上開就108年大法庭的裁定有關執行人壽保險契約應符立符合比例原則的意旨行政執行官在執行欠稅人的人壽保險解約金的時候如果他徵詢我們移送機關的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2646.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2676.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2676.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2691.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
根據我們各地區國會局的統計從111年12月9日大法庭裁定到113年4月底大概一年五個月的期間辦理強制執行欠稅人為要保人的人壽保險契約的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2693.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2715.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
一共有509件執行徵期的稅款合計新台幣是2.54億元那最後簡單跟大家做個報告就是為了確保欠稅的徵期我們本部將會持續督導所謂各地區域辦理各項稅捐保全措施發掘納稅人他可供執行的財產而且是積極配合行政機構辦理後續強制執行作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2718.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2733.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
如果到最後還是有執行人壽保險解約金的需要,我們也會提醒各地居國局一定要符合比例原則的審慎為之,來兼顧國家的租稅債權跟相關關係人權益。以上說明,敬請各位委員會議指教。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2735.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2761.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好 謝謝我們宋署長那麼機關報告已經進行完畢現在開始詢答本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10點30分截止花園登記如有臨時提案並請於10點半前提出1例於11點進行處理好請登記第一位的省委員發會諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2780.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2784.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
主席我們先請司法院秘書長好請吳秘書長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2791.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2809.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
秘書長,我們根據行政院所通過的有關於詐欺犯罪危害防治條例草案還有洗錢防治法、科技偵查法、通訊保障監察法等等幾項 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2815.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2834.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個我們行政院他把他整個作為一個打砸專法那這個部分現在他這個行政院他已經他我個人還沒有看到法條內容但是我在新聞上面看到這個這個他的整個打砸專法的方向這部分請問司法院這邊了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2835.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2836.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
主席黃市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2865.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2887.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
委員好市長好這個你是不是大概我大概你對這個行政院所推出這個打詐專法的部分你個人了不了解抱歉因為我是行政執行署這個是屬於那個我們檢察司的好那這個那還那這個那你請回來你不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2889.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2915.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這個這個秘書長這個部分你個人對於對於這個這個目前行政院所推出的打砸專法的內容你現在你個人有沒有掌握?都有掌握因為我們刑事廳都都隨時都要回報每一次參加會議齁這個都要都要有有這個這個這個推出來我個人是非常肯定行政院這樣子他把這個大概是把這幾年來這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2917.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2938.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們這些所謂民眾對詐騙集團以及從我們從這個包括刑事案件包括這個法務部包括這個各金融單位大家在這個這幾年裡面在打詐的過程中所碰到的大概幾個法律上面的問題我們一一要把它解決當然這個修法的結果他能不能解決這個還是一個問題但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2941.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2968.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
是不是這裡面有關幾個尤其是例如說像這個這個大型網路平台啦齁那像我們我知道這次好像增列了這個巨額詐欺罪齁那我個人但是我個人因為還沒有看到法條所以我不太清楚這巨額詐欺罪是指一次犯罪行為還是還是這個這個這個以這個這個行為人為單位他所累計的的詐騙金額呢這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2969.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2973.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
據我們了解那個行政院今天早上應該會開院會來處理打詐三法的原意 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2985.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3009.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那其實會通過的草案內容可能目前為止可能還不是那麼確定但是根據我們之前開會的所得其實就這個詐欺一千萬元以上可能列為這個巨額的詐欺巨額詐欺罪會成為這個三年以上十年以下的重罪的案件對那是這個所謂巨額詐欺罪他是指一次一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3010.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3031.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
犯罪行為一千萬以上還是累計應該是才累計不過這個還是要看他草案的內容所以最後去當然最後還沒確定但等監議院會但是你所看到提到院會的草案內容裡面是累計的還是不過這個是跟贅述有關係就是說如果他詐欺的過程中他持續性的詐欺這個金額當然是累計 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3033.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3052.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
好這個部分齁這個部分我們等這個最後我們看到這個條文齁可能有很多部分以他最後版本為準對當然是以最後版本為準齁那但是有關於這個大型網路平台要求在台灣要指定代理人像TikTok這些大型網路平台因為我們現在目前整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3053.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3078.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
查緝詐欺犯罪最大碰到最大困難就在這網路平台的部分這部分我們目前我看到的辦法是要求這些大型網路平台在台灣必須要指定法律代理人那這個另外有關於巨額詐欺加重罪有關於這個三犯不得假釋或者是這個窩裡反條款這些部分我們都希望說到時候我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3079.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3107.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
確定了法案之後這部分可能再跟這個相關的執行單位我們再來討論好不好兩位請回好那接下來接下來我是先請這個這個阿等一下這個這個秘書長你還是還是稍微留步齁有關於我們這個今天的主題啦齁我們這個民事民事大法庭裁定了齁裁定有關於這個授權保單可作為執行標的的部分齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3109.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3109.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這部分這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3112.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3137.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
究竟這個人壽保險他有沒有這個一身專屬性是不是屬於一身專屬性的權利在法律上面當然還有一些爭議但是我們既然我們大法庭這民事大法庭做了統一的見解但這個統一見解做下去之後為什麼今天會召開這樣的會剛才各個單位的報告也都聽到了也都聽到就是他事實上剛才我看到我們司法院自己的報告也提到我們這個北檢跟市檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3139.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3153.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
的這個不堪負荷,負荷非常沉重,就因為通過這個見解,所以事實上不只是我們這個法院案件增加的負荷而已,事實上四大增加,民眾的抱怨也增加,很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3154.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3170.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
民眾的抱怨再來保險公司跟保險公會的負擔也增加因為你們這過程你們要查詢你們要查詢這個保單所以保險公會跟保險公司他的負擔也增加再來我們民意代表接受的陳情也增加量真的增加很大所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3174.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3198.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這個我們還是事實上需要解決啦我剛剛有看到你們的這個報告裡面有關這個這一年來這個民事大法庭做出這個統一的見解之後這一年來所增加的幅度將近到三成耶三成是相當可怕的數字啊那這個後續的狀況齁這個有很多部分可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3201.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3201.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
司法局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3223.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3249.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
市長好久不見歡迎你今天到司法法制委員會來了我剛看到你們的報告你們提到就今天的這個主題你們提到說儘管會有四大因應作為那我這個我剛所講的狀況包括我們司法院秘書長說它是重災區法院的案件增加量是重災區事實上保險公司跟保險公會我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3251.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3266.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
局長應該非常清楚他們負擔增加的狀況是驚人所以我們還是要看金管會的因應作為金管會的因應作為在報告裡面提到四大因應作為第一個是說要求保險業主動關懷保險契約遭強制執行戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3271.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3295.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這部分其實他就是增加保險業的業者的增加他的這個負擔嘛是第二個要求受險公司提供覆約延續條款這部分我看你們已經做了啦你們在這個去年的12月你們已經發了一個人身保險商品審查應注意事項已經讓他這個包括他有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3300.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3323.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
有沒有這個復約可不可謂解約有沒有復解約金你們把它區分開來做的但是這是針對未來的新的新的人壽保險契約過去的舊的我們還是一樣在這你們還是一樣在這個目前這個亂象這個負擔之中嗎就你沒有回溯嗎對不對報告委員因為護約是一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3324.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3325.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
但是你們再來你們提到說你們要執行這個機關簡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3351.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3352.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們已經在擬這個條文了就是已經滿久了捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3379.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3405.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
因為這件事情應該是上個月我們的那個有沒有修法有沒有包括這個受益人介入的制度有因為我們有一個委員研究計畫所以我們會把受益人大概修法兩個重點第一個就是就是明定這個保障型的契約不能不予強制執行這是第一個重點第二個就是受益人的介入制度這個部分要納入了要引入對不對對對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3409.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3425.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個齁我是是要了解你們因為這個東西還牽涉到齁事實上現在我們我們知道現在這樣亂象但是其實政府各單位其實也在運用這個方式在執在在在在進行強制執行我們今天國稅國稅國稅署在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3426.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3444.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
他們這個光去年去年透過這個這個人壽保單的強制執行去年就追回追回的這個這個這個款項都到兩億多的是不是對不對兩億多這就是就是這個所以你們這個未來如果如果修法啊不只這個中華電信 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3445.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3461.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
交通部所屬的中華電信、台電這些他們過去欠的電費、電話費也都很多都是透過這個保單在強制執行、在收回的所以這個修法的部分我希望說我們這個金管會這邊能夠加速進行好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3462.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3480.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
是。我們會盡快來處理。那你們預計什麼時候?因為這已經講滿久了。我們近期會召開公聽會。這大概應該是...現在是五月嘛。我們大概五月底之前會先召開過第一次的那個跟業者還有我們會邀執行機關一起來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3481.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3482.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好,謝謝沈委員接下來有請沈委員峻宇質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3523.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3547.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
好謝謝主席那我們先請吳秘書長請吳秘書長好秘書長早委員好在司法院我們解凍的這個報告當中我們有提及到國民法官制度那對於現行絕對評議的這個秘密原則進行檢討是否能夠落實國民法官法賦予當事人對於評議意見閱覽權的這種精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3550.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3575.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那依國民法官法第85條第二項的規定案件之當事人、辯護人或輔佐人得於裁判確定後申請閱覽評議意見但不得抄錄、攝影或影印而在這個上會期我們審議決議寫道實務上因為這個評議意見只有摘入摘要和結論所以沒有辦法得知結論的這個脈絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3577.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3598.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
若評議的過程有歧視性的偏見而影響到判決,恐會有失國人對司法院的信任。我們從司法院這次提供的書面報告可以看到司法院對於評議秘密應該還有比較保守的態度從過去所做的一般民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3599.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3625.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
對於國民法官制度的認知調查也可以看到民眾對於擔任國民法官的疑慮、人身安全和各自保護有其優先性那從調查結果也能夠看到不論是否有實際的參與國民法官經驗都對於隱私和安全有相當的重視另外從上個月所公布的國民法官問卷調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3626.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3652.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這個結果報告當中我們可以看到在影響參與審判意願的因素當中人身安全和個人隱私的疑慮還是名列前茅但是在這個實際的參與審判之後這項疑慮占比降低了許多那我想請教祕書長怎麼來解讀這個調查報告那頻密的緩和是否可能多大的這個程度影響到民眾參審的這個意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3655.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3666.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
因為在這個裁判齁在一般的這個裁判或案件審理那麼平易的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3667.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3667.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
國民法官案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3687.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3687.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
當然因為要 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3708.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3731.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
要保障我們國民法官的這個自由這個表述人身安全也是要促進我們民眾參審的一個重要價值但是也不能犧牲掉我們當事人的這個權益應該讓當事人能夠探知平易的這個期間有沒有被引導的這種權威效應或是歧視性的言論影響到後續的這個判決結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3733.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3756.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那這一次我們司法院的書面報告裡面也確實研究了這個其他國家的採用制度當然也有經過變身處理開放當事人、閱覽、記載、詳盡的這個筆錄等方式但是在結論當中看起來我們還是保護國民法官為優先要再進行整體的這個評估那我還是再請教我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3759.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3773.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
秘書長對於司法院目前我們還是暫時不打算做出相關的這個調整以去識別化的方式來兼顧國民法官和當事人的權益嗎那接下來我們評估的修正方向是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3774.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3794.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
看我們這個之前的這個電話訪談還有問卷調查的結果才能夠再做重新的調整嗎?因為因為這個新進度的推行那尤其涉及到這種相對性的這個關係人那麼相對性的一個權利所以這一部分在 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3796.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3807.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
在司法院是很審慎的來會評估然後是隨時滾動性的去面對這種問題這個還是要很謹慎還是要很謹慎因為這個是相對性的有相對性的權利要保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3814.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3828.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
所以就是還要在...這個要很審慎啦,其實這方面要很審慎。好,那接下來我想請教秘書長,我們這個有關國民法官的制度,我們在減變資源不對等的這個問題, |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3829.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3849.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我想這個問題也是我們國民法官實施這一年多來很多人提出的疑慮那因為國民法官所審理的案件多半都是重罪通常會有這個頂尖的這個檢察官來辦理但在律師參與的誘因相對不足的情況之下可能就會有資源和實力上的一個落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3850.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3868.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那一樣從國民法官這個問卷調查結果報告的內容我們可以看到參與審判的這個國民法官對於法庭上活動的感受給予簡便雙方的評價基本上都是正面居多但我們還是看得出來對於檢察官的這個整體評價是高於 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3871.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3886.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
的這個部分這項調查或許也呼應到現在國民法官制度的現實情況那我們許中立院長也曾經表示過了我們司法院作為國民法官制度的一個推動機關所需要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3888.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3898.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
因應的作為不能消極指望藉由律師的這個市場機制來解決那我還是請教秘書長就是目前我們司法院如何來積極回應這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3900.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3924.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
因為這個這些都要從人性面考量所以在這個法服歷史那一部分我們會盡量來提高他酬金的天花板那在這個在法院部分也有約聘辯護人這方面的一個招聘就盡量要讓這個辯護人方面的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3925.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3928.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
從我們這個書面報告看起來我們還是大多朝向就是像剛剛秘書長陳如寧所說的提高我們律師的薪酬那也能夠提高辯護的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3946.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3963.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我們也認同對於提高薪酬是一個很直觀也必須要做的一個方向那我還是請教秘書長是不是還有其他的措施能夠讓減變雙方的資源更加平衡這一部分我們書信廳這一方面我們其實都有相當的一個對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3969.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3993 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
委員好謝謝委員垂詢這個問題有關法服這個國法案件酬金的部分在今年因為通常這種酬金的調整都是由基金會他們來擬據草案之後來送我們司法院核定之後再施行那目前的進度是這樣先跟委員報告就是有關這個國法案件的酬金有關基數的部分我們已經調高成一個基數為2000元那另外有關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3998.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3998.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
復甦辯護律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4013.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4039.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4039.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4058.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那也順便提高這個國法案件辯護的質與量以上報告謝謝是不是剛剛所說的部分可以會後給我一份簡單的書面報告是好那另外我想請教我們秘書長就是除了我們促進民眾對國民法官的這個參與之外我們也期待辯護人能夠這個持續的參審 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4060.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4076.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那司法院有沒有調查過曾經這個參加過參審的這個國民法官案件的辯護人他在參與的意願為何那或是他不想去參與的原因是什麼那這一部分聽裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4079.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4103.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
報告委員這部分我們都有進行相關的這個問卷調查那這部分可能要再看詳細的資料其實對於辯護人那沒關係那還是會後再給我一份這個書面報告簡單的書面報告那因為我們國民法官這一年多來有越來越多的案例可以做這個整體的檢討目前看到這一份我們所做的國民法官問卷調查結果報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4105.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4118.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
可以說做得相當的完整也非常的精美那還有很多項目可以參考和討論我也希望說我們司法院的成效評估報告能夠早日的出爐也能夠繼續來精進推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4121.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4122.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
謝謝秘書長、謝謝委員那接下來請謝委員容屆質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4158.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4162.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
主席我請秘書長﹖有請吳秘書長﹖執行署﹖方署長﹖委員金管委﹖來請趙培勳議事局長我先來問執行署﹖書長﹖你沒有去發過你們的特集的詢問書嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4180.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4186.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
今天這個問題都是你們土井土到有夠煞的,你們比那個歐洲的土井更煩,真的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4209.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4210.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我先瞭解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4240.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4241.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
有的發官還替董事長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4268.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4274.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
啊你們不符合比例原則啦齁啊這樣就要關稅,這樣關稅會怎樣啊這我都親身經歷的啦不是這樣啦,這問題齁你們這執行署,執行署齁在討錢很難的啦我們在縫合到這個齁去有時候要參與一般地方的議員去,他沒什麼要參與的 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4296.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4301.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我現在來立法院報到可能來講比較稠稠的給我說的樣子啊不然剛剛地方的議員剛才你要去跟他說婚期啦這樣比較會對你比較客氣淡薄啊比如說幾年剛剛這個立法院這樣宣佈下來啦,幾年到今年,到今天了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4320.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4350.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
只要這樣保險大處理還不就百高千斤是不是啊?有這個數字啊但我經常說你們要給董事林欸你們這時候都沒叫董事林來欸齁啊你如果給鄉方面的董事林都來陳述意見就對了啦我問你會驚慌的結局嗎?這個所以業務很多啦陳述就是包括書狀百高千斤啊不然你們法官會想不開啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4352.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4358.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我個人是覺得今年7月以前就對了,這是7月高,這是新的啦,9月保單還是一樣啦,這個問題又繼續發生喔,不是的都沒有而已。所以金管會對這條齁,要拜託一下,我個人的感覺齁,這如果不趕緊解決啦, |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4380.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4408.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
您發官、司法院及法務部不管時就要上來立法院要對家人員的編制感謝,秘書長因為這個現在就重災期啊就需要這麼多人力啊沒有啦,所以我們要當兵相嘛不是只討人家嘛,不是只討金管會嘛,不是只討保險局嘛所以政府是一體的啦,政府應該一體來面對這樣一個問題啊你對特勤的這裡,他們不要那麼煩躁,沒有這樣的事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4411.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4424.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
主席,我告訴你,你應該去聽聽看,你都不要怕車子,人家在問的時候,你總要點點去,把他下車來聽,你就知道說你那裡執行官多實,你不知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4431.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4446.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
委員應該是不會啦,我剛剛問的那些執行官齁,這樣都是為人民服務齁,我覺得應該態度不會這樣啦。民代車友,爺爺能講,齁齁,夠厲害。你這樣再說不會,我再跟你說,我背董事,你去咕嚕咗你聽到沒有?是,是,委員我會去了解,齁。這製作,不會去製作這麼久,你們總要討錢也不對啦。什麼私人骨頭空喔,你們就有空去把它黏出來啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4460.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4471.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我跟董事長拿一支肥肝去說,他說這個古早,這個我阿公留下來,這個穿掉了,這個假日沒用,這個給你們靠這樣有沒有你暗罵會對不對,一聲就把他打穿你就看得到,他會比較要放肚就對了,沒有的都沒有的今天法務部及金管會都有來,我跟你說一件很嚴重的事情譬如說這個看你比較無關的你敢知道現在最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4490.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4496.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
委員這個部分應該是類似融資公司在處理的,是。我還要講這4萬5要行7萬3千4百4十,這樣沒打緊,這是機車喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4520.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4536.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
開車,很多年輕人跟老闆老婦說他要買車,我們同事也要買車,我們朋友也要買車,同事之間就對了,同事之間就是大家都開車,他就要買車,四大人一定說啊,看什麼啦,我只要給這四大人拜託去處理這幾項就對了,有夠多啦,看什麼,再來,造成現在為什麼李修車會那麼認罪? |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4549.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4557.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
李秀蕭我告訴你這台車2百萬啦齁7個行情天書拿去看2百萬他會賺不到302萬你覺得嗎?年輕人現在在急著要用錢啊打到六倍啊現在來去302萬你不用投機款農莊貸款喔這樣就中4萬啦這沒什麼只有302萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4577.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4587.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
人家說幫我好來好不過後台啦 來開始 帳管費啦 手續費啦 開辦費啦 加加一更兩三萬 加到這 加到後分團組36集 團組36集啦 理事代代三檔要結納差不多50%啦 三檔要結納50%啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4606.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4613.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這30萬要繳45萬啦!每款寫的35萬,啊怎麼年輕人,你幫我報,我幫你報,我們就都可以買車啊!啊這搞不好就後面,特勤還是對歐德去啦!特效公司啦!啊這搞你現在都沒辦法啦!這把你歡迎過來變成這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4633.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4654.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
報告委員 融資公司的部分我們的銀行局其實也有找幾大融資公司在溝通啦希望他們也能夠定制立規範所以您是知道問題的問題就對了啦確定有這個問題是還是要我們把案例稍稍給你們看有啦 我們大概銀行局那邊應該都有掌握到一些沒有啦 放給這些年輕人過啦 不會這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4656.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4670.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
他們現在很厲害,他們現在把所有賣出去的車,車牌都放在PDA裡面,電腦裡面喔,開喔,你只要2機沒力,3機沒力,路邊找到,通報所有的保養証喔,只要這台車來保養,要通報回去,他有重金耶,他就叫人來把車調到他,這樣後來就開始來對這件事了嘛,因為你錢沒力喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4679.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4684.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
阿你現在32萬的車對不對,你才半年後調回去阿,調回去他把你拍賣給你說什麼,這台車拍賣15萬,你給他看嘛,阿你32萬你要行他48萬欸,48萬加扣15萬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4699.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4715.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
你又欠他33萬我講你聽得懂嗎?他年輕就是這樣算的年輕就是這樣算的啊所以社會比較不亂啊這個年輕人又退散啊、走路啊啊要怎樣?四大人要出來處理啊四大人就對民意代表在這裏盯著啊整個規定就是這樣若沒有政策去面對啦齁所以為什麼一天王世堅會說這些人真的臨江生疆也不可創啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4730.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4746.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這比放學後來更慘,放學後來就好不過後台了啦。所以,這我看你把這個公司齁,貸款的公司,租賃的這裡,包括民間做的這個,是不是一分數了給我們,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4751.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4753.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
謝謝謝榮介、謝委員接下來請鍾嘉斌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4785.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4807.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
主席、在堂的委員先進、列席的政府監察官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生有請司法院吳秘書長、法務部黃署長以及金管會司局長還有財團法人金融消費評議中心羅主委兼總經理羅主委編導秘書長好、司委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4812.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4837.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我想四位看起來都是慈眉善目那我很難得的我這裡一開始在簡報之前講兩個真實的案例給大家聽一下故且稱之為張先生跟李太太張先生年輕時做業務中年投資私利到了現在快退休的年紀了為債務所苦常常跑法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4838.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4867.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那還好他年輕的時候兼差做過保險幫自己存了很多的保單但是大概是健康險、癌症險、受險那麼儲蓄型的當然就被強制執行解約他也就知道了但是他現在因為發現了早期的癌症他的保單開始對他產生效果結果呢保險公司理賠的金額強制執行都查扣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4867.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4895.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
但是他想說這個後續還有很多啊所以他保費呢還借錢繼續繳保費第二個李太太先生早年沒有照顧家庭都是他一個人操持帶小孩他真的節儉到幫孩子買一些保單但是呢先生因為外面欠債過世之後啊他也人家告訴他拋棄繼承但是後來才發現他不自情的情況下幫先生做連帶保證人 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4897.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4897.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
請看齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4910.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4934.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
因為今天啊,現在這樣場的一個質詢,我們立法院有直播,我的演說也直播。有兩個廣播電台的主持人,他們得到很多類似這個案例,在我開了記者委之後跟他們求助。我說你們來看看今天,我們在立法院相關機關、民意代表,怎麼樣幫這些數十萬個潛在的受害人解決。 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4935.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4949.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我們講目前呢強制執行保單解約未符比例原則就是殺雞取卵是不是這樣子秘書長你殺了一隻雞他的保單的受益權那麼大只取到了一個解約金你認不認同這句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4951.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4978.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
殺資取暗嘛但是苦了誰?不是苦了藥保人、債務人啦苦了法院啦,是不是?21家保險公司,2家在士林分院19家在台北分院他們案件量現在已經有3萬多件,對不對?被查詢的保單還有23萬件,是不是這樣子?這23萬件被債權人去查詢的保單謝謝我們保險局,做得很好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4979.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4987.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
人家可以查說到底我的債務人有多少保單那結果呢法院等於殺雞取卵殺雞也殺到手軟可是誰受益?施局長你覺得誰獲益?報告委員其實大家都是受害者其實債權人其實經過拍賣之後當你說受害他多少拿回一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5003.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5005.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
所以大法庭在2022年12月9號做成的這個裁定我們往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5033.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5051.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
執行保單的剛剛講的案例他欠23萬每年被收20%的高利還債跟不上滾利還被扣保單再往下看強制執行我們看到了已經發出的有8100件合法扣押命令的已經執行的已經解約的8000多件再扣押的34000件申請查詢的23萬件往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5054.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5078.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
李培中的保單也會被強制執行嗎?請問保險局剛剛說那個案例他的健康險、癌症險在李培給他了那為什麼這個保護還要繼續繳保費?因為醫療險、健康險的部分他是有延續性的是的,因為他早年買的保費比較低他持續繳這個保單那有沒有拿到幾戶?被扣了嘛,對不對?好,我們現在來,黃署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5079.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5105.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我們繳納保險目的是為了醫療保險那在這種情況之下你認為以那個案例情況之下我們薪水啊我不會因為欠了錢我薪水被扣我就不去上班嘛我還是努力的工作可是因為什麼因為我工作賺了錢只有三分之一會抵債嘛 對不對那如果我早年買的保單現在通通拿去賠去付這個債務人那你說我這個保護這樣公不公平並不應該你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5107.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5116.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我認為他真的蠻可憐的啦那有沒有辦法可不可以什麼救濟法院的部分我可能不方便來法院來黃部長你對法院怎麼幫他因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5122.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5141.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
發言當然還是要回復我們回到就是還是要盡量要符合比例原則啦是這些案件我們看到潛在的有23萬件法官個案裁量累都累死了我們看看齁如果撲問保單的解約金多款率強制執行如果債務人他欠款是20萬那或者說解約金額只有1萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5143.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5158.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
請問執行署這種保障型的保單解約金少而債務人因為此失去了健康保險有沒有符合比例原則?這就是我們目前開的幾次會我們都盡可能的針對這部分我們用行政指導的方式各分署對這部分會考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5159.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5187.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
所以你們要再進一步講參考美國各州限定執行的範圍根據強制執行法第122條為了保障民眾生活債務人依法領取之社會保險幾乎不得為強制執行有沒有可能秉照這個精神社會保險是維持生活所必須尊嚴的生活很多保障你的保單也是要做保障在損害的填補是不是可以請司法院會同保險局執行署以保單類型解約金為界將部分保單排除在執行範圍外請三位分別答呼保險局可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5189.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5209.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
法務委員我們現在已經在做了那執行署呢我們只要保險法有規定我們就配合辦理好那秘書長那誰來主催你們再來主導所以今天誰來定今天這個專題報告非常有意義的透過這樣齁這個我們一定會傾聽是誰來定保險局定執行署定還是司法院來定 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5210.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5234.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
誰要來定?因為有關於保單的強制執行事實上法院的執行程序只是一個被動程序所以這個法如果要制定的話不是法執行的標準分類標準應該在保險法裡面明定到底能不能我們會修法我是問你哪個單位來定 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5238.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5264.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
司法院委員承諾,你們找這兩個單位把這個標準定出來。欸,你們在推來推去,你們今天如果不講錯,不讓你們下台。誰要負責?報告委員,保險法的部分我們是會來定。那參考原則的部分,我想我們會來找受險工會來擬出一個參考原則。執行作業要點,司法院國民組長,你們有沒有一個刑事案件的分類做執行作業要點? |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5268.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5278.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我想政府是一體的啦這個我看我們相關機關大家一起來協調看怎麼處理啦這個一定要緊密的來協調啦緊密協調啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5280.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5307.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
報告委員因為這個部分是應該還是要讓執行機關有一個參考原則修法是保險局要處理目前還沒修法前的執行作業要點來我念一個案子給你聽我們先看一下這個格式沒有統一的格式跟流程公務往往就非常的耗時耗力要請臭險公司就個案一一的向法院確認扣押範圍這是累死大家所以我剛剛就說要你們來統一格式流程來降低執行法院的壓力有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5309.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5321.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
好,我會後再給你們,因為你們有訂了一個刑事案件的執行的一個作業要點,是司法院訂的,可不可以參照這個訂出一個保單的一個執行跟解約的分類要點。這個我想我們說好因為積極來協調啦,會積極來協調。 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5325.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5345.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好 那請問那個保險局齁受限主約遭強制執行副約一併失效你們也報告了那你們要怎麼做法防止這個主約被強制執行後副約的健康衍醫療險都因而失效你們有一個延約的一個延續續約的一個條款副約延續條款副約延續條款那怎麼做現在保險公司怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5346.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5366.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
保險公司現在會主動把它復業延續條款就加批上去了好,你們說有去關懷啦提供復業延續條款我要拜託保險局保險公司最怕什麼?你們普惠金融的一些評鑑納入你們普惠金融的檢查項目定期公告可以嗎?可以可以,好謝謝,下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5367.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5391.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所以目前尋求的保單呢,強制的營養23萬件來,評議中心,來,主委兼總經理目前你們有沒有受到保護這樣的一個請求,說啊協助他們認為有救濟,有爭議,你們有沒有辦法協助他救濟有這樣的案件有這樣的案件對,但是按照金融消費者保護法規定的話這個不屬於這個金融消費爭議,所以呢是的,我知道不是屬於金融,但是一般來講他們只認得你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5392.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5392.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5415.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5441.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我們評議中心的工作本來就有在做教育訓練好 那我要請你幫忙很清楚的不管是透過電視台、廣播電台、網路告訴這個事情全台灣有23萬個潛在的受害者他們即將他們被債務權公司查詢了知道他們有保單要進行申請強制執行了你們趕快的去宣傳可以嗎我們盡量做不是盡量做請在一個月內提出你們要怎麼做的方法給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5442.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5461.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
所以我在這裡最後還因為時間的關係請司局長我這個四大要求第一個以保單的類型解約金為借將部分保單排除在執行範圍內甚至要執行的部分也設定禮賠金的扣押上限這個部分保險局執行署授權公會請司法院會同來做可以嗎都點頭啦我當作你們都答應了 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5465.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5473.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
第二、對於保單強制執行統一的格式流程,定定一個保單強制執行參考原則,一個月內提出書面報告,誰要提? |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5475.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5495.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
保單強制執行參考原則因為司法院會盡量來協調啦可是要有人提阿你們不能三個合上沒水喝阿誰要提我們會盡量來那就司法院吳秘書長你來提一個月內我們司法院會來處理啦因為我們既然是重災期嘛重災期我們當然好啦那個廳長我覺得這樣秘書長願意承擔我們報 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5498.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5517.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們要先把那個受險他的受險種類我了解我都了解司局長會幫你忙但是你最後誰要送來來司局長你一個月給司法院可以嗎一個月內先給司法院好司法院拿到一個月把書面報告提出來可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5519.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5545.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
當然我們會積極配合,因為我們是重災之馬。那就是你們,如果保險局在一個月內沒有給你們整理這些保單、商品的類型,那就責任剩下他。給了你們之後一個月內把這順便報告提出來,可以嗎?我們一定會費整啦,一定會費整。一個月內喔?因為這個一定要趕快積極處理啊。保險局將保險公司照強制性的保護提供的覆約延續條款,請納入你們對保險公司普惠金融檢查項目定型公告,可以嗎?可以。好,再下一頁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5546.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5571.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那金融消費平行中心為了針對金融消費的弱勢消費者透過電台、電視、網路加強宣導保單你們可不可以一個一個提出一個你們怎麼做的報告給我給我們本委員會就是做這種教育宣導我們提出報告但是就是說像這種電視電台或你們有沒有預算執行欸這個我們這個預算可能不是那麼多我會幫你們去爭取但是你們過去都只是被動的接受消費平益 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5572.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5584.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我希望你們要主動的告訴消費者有哪些潛在的風險。可以嗎?好,可以齁。那最後呢保險局,請進入沿路介入全路保險法,一個人提出書面延期報告,可以嗎?好,謝謝。謝謝主席。好,謝謝鍾嘉賓委員。下一位,下一位就我了。鍾嘉賓,好久不見。 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5604.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5626.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
好,那請專委員,謝謝。謝謝主席。有請我們司法院秘書長。好,有請吳秘書長。還有我們民事廳長。有請廳長。保險局局長。好,那市局長。還有我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5635.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5663.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
財團法人金融消費平益中心我們的羅總經理好不好請羅總經理民主黨還有局長委員好民主黨我來延續剛中嘉賓委員的質詢再來做一個追問我們在強制執行法我們的第一條其實他就開宗明義的講了就是我們整個強制執行應依照公平合理的一個原則兼顧債權人跟債務人及其他利害關係人的一個權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5664.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5681.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5682.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5684.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
2016年2016年2016年台灣高等法院座談會的研討意見跟審查意見裡面去講到受險的保單責任準備金 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5708.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5712.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
所謂這個財政執行法裡面所談到的責任財產就是它的財產、它的債權這一些授權保單的責任準備金並不是債務人的責任財產的範圍且法院不宜介入代為終止債務人所訂的授權保單 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5725 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5743.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
人身保險是保險人的生存跟死亡及身體健康屬於被保險人的人格權基於人身無價﹐某些生命保險兼具投資性生命法益跟身體健康的一個法益具有一身的專屬性應無代位權規定之適用這2016年啊你台灣高等法院你做出來的呢這都主持沒發官的 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5749.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5768.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
學有專精勒你看看你們2022年大法庭所做出來的這樣的一個裁定啊2022年大法庭你們所做出的裁定主人說執行法院在必要時得執行命令終止債務人為邀保人之人受保險契約命第三人就保險公司償付這個解約金豆餅見解就完全不同了嘛 民主黨 廳長 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5774.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5797.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
對不對那接下來會衍生的很多的問題委員那這一個部分因為本來人壽保險的保單價值準備金到底性質是不是具有一身專屬性本來就有爭議所以最高法院才會做108年台抗大的897號裁定是那我要問的就是這個效果就天下大亂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5799.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5824.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
是不是天下大亂?造成法院執行處的重大負擔噢 不是我在意的不是法院的重大負擔我在意的是這些保護這些老百姓他有很多保險契約有很多付款欸你們想到的是說噢造成法院好多的負擔我想到的是這些老百姓怎麼辦因為我們這些說司法獨立審判的法官造出做出來這樣不同的見解假設我今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5828.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5829.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
中央政府總預算關於司法院及 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5833.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5838.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我選擇你那張就強制執行啊你說哇!莊瑞雄有一張保單在那個地方你給他申請強制執行啊那以現在2016年台灣高等法院司講說不行莊瑞雄那張有一身專屬性總裁變成在那裡停了他受討厭他又站到了你知道嗎那你現在把它終止掉的話現在不是只有變成說把它當成是我的責任財產的一部分那就可以強制執行囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5859.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5882.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那強制執行以後就按照強制執行法第1條第2項裡面說你這哪有公平就會損失一道相關關係人受益人也是啊是是還不只勒還不只勒我這一張保險單裡面我還有好多付款啊包括我的傷害保險啊健康保險啊全部都全部沒了我不相信只有台灣會碰到這種狀況全世界各國都有保險商品啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5886.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5887.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
所以必須要由保險局把這些釐清我們才有辦法定一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5916.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5923.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
責任準備金是說我的保護我要保人或者說被保險人我一直繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳繳� |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5938.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5940.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。�� |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5961.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5967.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
感謝委員的提示這個非常重要那政府本來就應該要實務就是要合乎時宜嘛要情話裡兼顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5990.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6013.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那我們跟今天我們相關這個初類型的機關我們要協力啦一定要協力大家協調喔司法院會來盡力來協調這不要用講的這用做的大法庭裏面的裁定裏面我去看到他的威嚴大義到有一個地方他指出一條明路啦他去講到說啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6014.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6034.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
目前我們沒有強制執行程序裏面採取像德國、歐盟那樣的介入權那我的像比如說相關的利害關係人我就可以來介入啦總部下面認為說欸我是受益人捏捷軍客只剩40萬他還要賣他可以來介入他說來啊我來帶腳啊這是一個方式啊那我們的條文裏面拜託這個局長你很努力啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6043.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6071.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
各國的法制這個部分可以去完備我們這些受益人或者被保險人整個體制要讓他完備阿阿不然你像這個問題你要怎麼解管你說瑞士你說德國奧地利日本他們有這樣的一個立法力強制執行程序裡面就可以有第三人相關相當的關係人他可以去做一個介入那我們應該也要往這樣的一個方向去這個是最高法院的裁定裡面有去講到這個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6072.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6084.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那我相信啊既然有去講到你總不能只有把2016年你法院自己做出來的一個座談會的一個決議要法官來遵守然後讓整個社會太平那你後面又做出一個裁定讓社會天下大亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6088.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6115.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
請秘書長你的看法這個我們一定要積極面對啦一定要積極面對來克服我們相關的機關說法院一定會盡量來協調來積極面對強制執行只有一個概念這個責任財產裡面你雖然透過法院要保上當事人債權人的權利可是這個執行程序裡面我們第一條就揭示公平合理跟最小侵害原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6116.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6116.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
二、處理129案 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6133.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6145.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我會覺得啊司法院這邊責無旁貸保險局家也責無旁貸這已經拖久了耶羅總經理剛才總委人家在說你講20幾萬件齁都講幾件我們便宜中心目前只收到11件這樣子啊幾十件你怎麼處理因為這個不是你只說我們沒那麼多對不對不是我們這個不符合我們這個金融消費者是當然嘛所以你只說沒那麼多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6161.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6164.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
還有受益人你沒有放進去啊整個保險的相關關係人你沒有放進去啦不然這個數目更大囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6187.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6197.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
秘書你是不是這樣我要特別提醒就是說在我們保險實務上常見的授權我們保單裡面你除了這些組約以外你常常會有一些意外傷害還有實質我們整個醫療險或者長期的一個照顧險的一些復約局長你應該很清楚你把這個終止整個保險保單然後取回解約金分配給債權人然後保險的付款全部都終止掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6218.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6237.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
當初大家在說人身保險我們託的錢都被託了,對不對?你的看法?是,所以我們才會要求保險公司有一個復約延續條款,不能終止他的復約可是問題是說復約終止條款,你現在如果按照大法庭的一個見解的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6237.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6238.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
所以我們加速好不好,秘書長跟局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6262.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6284.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
謝謝,我們一定會跟相關機關一起來積極來面對這個問題,司法院會來協調不是只有什麼一個月交報告,要加速修法,國外的立法制德國可以參考,澳國可以參考,連澳地利可以參考,日本也可以參考啊,他們都有介入權的一個規定啊,好不好?好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6287.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6303.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
好 謝謝秘書長、局長、總經理接下來請林委員4名質詢好 謝謝主席請秘書長有請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6309.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6321.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
市民部長好我想今天大家都非常關心這個司法院這個裁定下來所造成的整個衝擊甚至於我們稍微講說這個真的是一個災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6323.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6344.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我想這個最高法院這個108年抗治第897號所造成的整個影響真的叫做知識體大首先我們看這個新收的案件這個新收的案件到112年高達193萬件也就接近的200件所以我第一個問題就請問議務長 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6347.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6357.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
到底各地的民事執行處尤其士林跟台北地方法院的執行處聽說這兩百萬個案件如何來消化 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6358.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6384.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
你司法院如何來因應這麼大的一個案件量所以這個突然增加這麼多嘛那我們一定要緊急應變啦所以同仁的健康權你要怎麼保障是不是我們想我們前陣子才一直在關心這些同仁大家的一個身心健康的一個保障結果因為這一個裁定新收案突然暴增這麼多的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6385.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6397.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
司法院你要趕快去做出相關的一個大家剛才召委講做出相關的行政指導做出相關的指引有沒有在做這個我們一定會盡速積極來你發覺問題了嘛大家都發覺這個問題了嘛到底要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6403.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6428.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
就是像台北地院那邊我們就緊急新增7個執行局嘛那司機關有增加7人啦打眼7人那司法書館5人啦那包括有的人力也增加了17個啦包括相關的這個辦公室我們也都趕快來增設啦所以增設這麼多人力就是要去處理這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6429.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6452.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
這方面的案件一定要克服啊所以嘛 秘書長這個當然是一個治標啦但是如何治本如何治本其實我先來救教秘書長一下喔秘書長我想這個裁定啦講說執行法願於必要時得核發執行命令終止債務人為遙保人的人壽保險契約何謂必要時啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6454.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6472.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
副處長,我想你本人也當過我們的司法官得高望重何謂必要時,這麼不確定的法律概念我們的大法庭的這些法官在他的一個裁定裡面講必要時何謂必要時,我真的搞不懂,何謂必要時 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6475.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6477.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
所以把這個必要時的認定就交給我們民事執行處的法官、書記官以及相關的人員是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6490.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6503.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
所以必要的一些有一些目前應應這樣的一個重災可以說是重災區司法院一定要趕快今天也也很感謝有這樣一個專題我們相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6506.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6536.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6536.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6557.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
因為我想我們都在實務上曾經我們都曾經打滾過了我們的執行處有這個量能叫債權人債務人來講說欸阿母你兩個你們兩個談談看你們結束一下你們的意見我們能去這個真的在實務上有這個量能去做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6559.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6576.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
大法這些大法庭的法官們你把這樣的一個裁定意旨說你寫一寫說這樣就是必要性的一個原則叫我們的民事執行處的法官你們要去參酌你們要在這個執行的時候要去考量這些因子你覺得有可能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6577.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6594.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
只問移民的實務經驗我們這些民事執行處的人員有辦法實質去認定說這符不符合必要性啊聽聽兩兆的解釋就可以去認定然後有可能叫兩兆每一個案子都叫兩兆來問嗎有這個量能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6598.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6618.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以在司法行政我們能著力的一定會很困難嘛就因為我對這個裁定我想很多人都有意見只是因為一個裁定造成這麼大的一個災難三書啦剛才我們莊惠雄也講造成三書啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6619.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6645.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那我也看到這個金管會的一個報告報告中寫到說我們實務執行面所面臨的問題為健康險還有我們的傷害保險被執行影響的基本保障所以前開民事大法庭的裁定主要是針對人壽保險契約的解約金為之為實務上執行上已擴及健康保險及傷害保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6646.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6659.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
所以我想請問民主黨現在是我們司法實務上對於這種這個以廓極的健康保險及傷害保險我們要如何補救這一部分我們民視聽也有相當的好請聽長 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6662.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6676.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
謝謝委員那關於這個受險契約我們在強制執行的時候會先去確認他到底是投資型或者是純粹的受險或者有附加其他的保險我們會審酌那因為我們的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6679.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6703.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
剛剛委員有指教如果從強制執行法第一條跟強制執行法122條看似不是一個明確的準則但事實上在實務運作上普通是沒有其他的問題司法事務官的專業能力也無庸置疑所以在審酌上沒有問題那我們還透過很多的程序來達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6705.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6723.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
所以聽一下我打斷你一下就是說因為現在裁定是針對人壽險這個標的嘛但是現在我看金管會講說這個有擴大到傷害險以及健康險所以他這個對傷害的傷害險及健康險的保單也可以作為執行標的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6724.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6748.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
不是這樣子的,就是說我們的臺康大的這個897號裁定,它只針對受險,其實它沒有針對傷害跟醫療險這些,它沒有做裁定,是,我們的,就是說它的裁定是有限制的。您現在講沒有嘛,那個,局長,我請今晚回號,管理局我們司局長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6753.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6782.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
市長,我看你的報告裡面寫說這個會擴大到我們的傷害險以及健康保險的保單這部分,因為剛才司法院跟我講不會啊你寫說會擴及啊市長,我們確實有聽到業者的反應確實有一些健康險有被強制執行所以我們的健康險裡面有一年期的跟長期的保單是,尤其是癌症險嘛,我想剛才稍微講說尤其是癌症的保單 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6783.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6808.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
這個非常重要啊但是你癌症的保單也作為強制執行的標的這個司法院看你們兩個說法不一樣欸對不起這可能是因為他在主約有綁約定所以使得主約終止以後復約復約就一起被終止那如果是單純的這個不是人受險的復約這部分執行法院可以去執行他嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6809.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6837.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
其實這個部分我們通常不會這樣做因為其實法院在考量的時候我們真的...其實那個...聽著你講不會啦其實我可以告訴你執行處真的沒有這個量能去做判斷只要人家去執行他就馬上就給他查封了啦就馬上就給他終止了啦健康險跟這種醫療險通常都不會有所謂的解約金今天您這樣講我希望您責成真的喔未來各地方法院的民事執行處 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6838.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6868.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
對於這種不是赴約的健康險還有傷害保險不能給他去做這個作為執行的標的要訂出很明確的指引再來最後我再問一下我最近也接到一個陳情案件就是說保險邀保人是他父親被保險人是配偶跟子女繳了20幾年的保單爸爸辛辛苦苦工作為他的子女保了一個人壽保險還沒有到期 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6868.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6890.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
但是今天突然間就被解約啊這個爸爸哭著跟我講他說這個是我為子女的一個保障耶結果現在就被你們終止了我的孩子就沒有保障失去保障了我的老婆也是未來萬一發生什麼事情啊完全失去我們保險的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6892.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6900.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這讓他情何以堪啊?哭著跟我講啊!所以我會講說一個裁定造成這麼大的社會的一個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6902.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6926.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以對於這種邀保人跟被保險人不同的這種保單未來是不是可以去思考就是說這種保單我們在執行上面要特別的去注意可不可以把它排除我這樣講好了邀保人跟被保險人不一樣的話可不可以排除就是可以不被執行可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6928.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6950.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這種類型的那請那個保安局啊這個部分可能要看看大家的共識啊這確實契約非常的複雜是啊所以你保險種類非常多啊所以這個我就提出來你就講這個就造成人間悲劇啊萬一他的太太真的得到癌症啊這保障又沒了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6951.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6951.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6978.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6979.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
謝謝民主黨局長。接下來請黃委員國昌質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6996.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7009.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
謝謝主席,馬上有請司法院秘書長以及法務部今天是法律事務司司長好了好,有請吳秘書長跟法務部劉司長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7016.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7035.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
兩位好,不一一問候上一次啊,4月14號在質詢的時候我們處理到有關於現在法院因為案件量大增那司法院提出非常多的要求希望立法院這一邊支援你們五千多位新的員額那這個我們等一下再說 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7036.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7049.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那天在質詢的時候我已經清楚的秀出來了地方法院民事強制執行事件收案的數量不斷的暴增到2023年的時候已經到180億幾萬件了 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7051.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7066.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那裡面如果我們以特定的法院強制執行沒有終結的案件對基如山大概暴漲數字從以前的大概7萬件現在已經14萬件多了幾乎是兩倍的數額 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7067.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7089.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那天在質詢的時候我請教秘書長說針對堆積如山的案件你們到底做了什麼這件事情可不可以會後書面報告給全體的委員你說可以嗎那請問那個報告在哪裡那個委員是提到那個5536人那個人力的分配還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7091.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7119.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
不是啊我們4月24號詢答的內容您都忘了嗎?你看一下PPT啊refresh your memory看一下那一天我問你喔強制執行的案件對基魯山司法院做了什麼然後你說會後會提供給書面報告給大家因為我那天質詢的時候你開始跟我扯啊扯說提報的司法人員特考需用名額那那個是未來的事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7120.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7143.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
強制執行的案件堆積如山影響到了非常多債權人債務人的權益造成了第一線執行科的書記官還有很多工作統人工作的負擔大家都快要爆肝了我那天具體的問題是司法院做了什麼你那天答不出來我請你會後叫書面書面在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7144.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7163.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們實際上就是說在臺北地縣執行處有增加7個執行股那包括這個有司機關7個人、知達院7個人那書法事務官5個人先提一下那個秘書長請你聽問題好嗎第一個我剛剛問你的是書面在哪裡那書面的話那委員這邊因為我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7172.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7195.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
整理書面也要時間嘛有必要我們會馬上提供出來啦所以你還需要多久當初是你要求用書面跟我們回覆然後結果你今天跟大家講如果有必要你會提供司法院的態度是這樣嗎我不敢相信欸我們會盡量來配合啦對那你什麼時候要提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7196.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7204.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
你也太離譜了吧什麼叫我有需要欸你看一下你上次答詢的內容好不好是你自己說要給書面的欸對所以我剛問你嘛你需要多少時間嘛一個禮拜之內上次質詢是幾月幾號 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7214.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7233.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那這個總是要彙整啊對嘛所以我說你需要多少時間上次你是4月24號你剛說需要一個禮拜我問你東西在哪裡我們會彙整出來有需要我們會提供出來啊對不起你這樣的回答我無法接受當初是你自己開口 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7235.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7256.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以你要用書面回答結果你今天跟大家講有需要你們會提供你什麼態度啊那書面我們當然會提供出來什麼時候提供那剛剛不是講一個禮拜之內我們從什麼時候開始算一個禮拜從今天開始算一個禮拜剛剛你說你有新增執行股什麼時候新增的那就是應應這個需要什麼時候新增的那個就已經都新增了什麼時候新增的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7265.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7266.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
四月的時候。 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7287.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7304.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
沒有關係啊民事執行處有很多案件啊有保險的有非保險的各式各類強制執行的案件我上次質詢你們的時候是點出這個問題欸我點出這個問題的時候我收到非常多民事執行處工作的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7305.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7308.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
機關在運作也有一定的程序啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7329.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7333.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
來 我們看一下我們看一下這個案件數暴漲的情況到2023年的時候已經爆表了所以你司法院是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7343.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7360.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
到今年4月開始有委員在問這個問題今天才告訴大家你是4月才新增執行股喔沒有關係啊一個禮拜之內請你把書面交出來到底做了什麼清楚的跟大家講我們會提出來會提出來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7364.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7391.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就有關於判決查詢系統這個相關吼跟今天解凍的事由有關係你們自己再回去check一下了我常常查判決查不到司法院的同仁幫秘書長把照片拍起來地院的有高院的有最高法院的沒有最高法院的有中間的抗制少一個這個是什麼判決查詢系統啊你們自己拍個照這個是我昨天晚上我隨便找就出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7394.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7423.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
來請法務部有一件事情請你們請你們回去查清楚我上次在這邊質詢有我們之前國會的職員很可惡竟然勾結非法的詐騙集團引進中國人來台洗錢詐騙去年11月的時候判刑確定了去年11月判刑確定通常這種案子發監執行要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7425.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7426.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
法務部現在是連發簽執行的系統都出了狀況嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7453.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7481.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
為什麼這個勾結外面的人引進中國人到台灣來搞非法詐騙洗錢的到現在還在外面爬爬罩他是關係好嗎判決確定都不用去關喔有這種事情喔請法務部回去了解一下這個案件為什麼拖延這麼久我們了解後再跟我們說明謝謝去年12月的時候開始有 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7482.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7495.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
在網路上面流傳一個監聽的名單那個時候監聽的名單出來的時候非常罕見我們的調查局我們的廉政署我們的最高檢察署說這是典型的認知作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7496.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7521.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
三大執法機關的新聞稿我全部都拜讀完了我老實說啦我拜讀完了以後我看不出來他們說這個是認知作戰指的到底是什麼東西但我關心一件事情因為在我國目前基本上面監聽是要法官核監聽票的所以這不是只有檢查機關的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7522.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7549.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
如果這個是境外敵對勢力的認知作戰那事情很嚴重喔為什麼很嚴重因為監聽有他的密情性嘛你如果讓他知道了你再監聽他那你還聽什麼沒有意義嘛但是去年我們聯政署、最高檢察署、調查局發了新聞稿說這是認知作戰但沒有回答一個問題什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7552.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7576.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
這個監聽的名單是真的還是假的?如果是真的 怎麼外流的?這很嚴重欸秘書長 同不同意這件事情很嚴重?那當然嚴重啊好 法務部覺得這件事情嚴不嚴重?是 是頗嚴重好 既然很嚴重的話蔡京強說齁 這個我們要強力的偵辦來 我先確定一下事實齁這些監聽的名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7580.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7598.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7598.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7618.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
政府機關有一定的分工啦那這些有些是涉及比較機密那一部分啦所以沒有沒有沒有我上面跟你講國安監聽我全部都拿掉了啦這個基本上都是在辦貪腐案件的啦我一件一件去比對過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7619.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7643.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
因為當初這個監聽名單外流的時候我非常震驚啊有一些案子是我們之前我自己回到民間社會的時候就在追查的案子我看了這個監聽名單我非常的震驚我的理由是說我們國家檢票機關從法院那邊拿到了監聽票去監聽這個名單會外流非常可怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7644.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7671.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
如果是境外敵對勢力所掌握的那就更可怕我所知道我目前在討論這個問題的時候分兩個層次第一個如果這些名單是假的如果這些名單全部都假的我們就比較不用那麼擔心因為這是典型的什麼認知作戰嘛拿假的東西跟大家說啊這個是真的但如果這個是真的問題就嚴重了 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7673.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7688.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
問題就嚴重了為什麼這些被監聽的名單竟然會在網路上面流傳名單怎麼外洩的這絕對不是發一個新聞稿說這個是認知作戰就可以解決的現在問題來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7689.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7690.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
謝謝黃委員謝謝秘書長和司長接下來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7719.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7721.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
謝謝主席有請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7750.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7770.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
請文明署長主席會議詢問一下我們以前疫情期間不是都會消毒嗎?麥克風是不曉得有沒有準備有嗎?有準備酒精嗎?就是那我們等一下我們停個一分鐘等一下等一下沒問題我們暫停一下那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7789.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7811.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
4月24日我們針對司法人員檢押有一個專報我那天還有一些我認為還需要跟您進一步對話那今天主席又安排了司法院我就在把握時間跟您再對話那你們也在5月7號提據了依據我們上一次專報之後的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7813.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7827.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那你們的報告就是要提修法我們中央政府總原額法如何來突破給予司法人員來增補一個最好的支持你們那個報告上面寫得很好一句話世界上並不存在唾手可得的正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7829.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7858.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
也就是說司法人員是捍衛社會正義國家正義很重要的一道防線但是要給司法人員最好的支持制度面、人力、物力各方面下一頁所以呢我上一次的專報的幾個減壓我們要對司法人員賦予他更好的工作環境讓他發揮司法的效能也就是我的具體建議我還是要花點時間我再跟大家再分享一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7858.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7869.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
司法院應設心理調適架重視員工身心調適的需求第二、吳思瑤支持我們要合理增加員額而司法院應當來規劃增補人力的時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7872.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7879.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
第三、民事新收案量龐大但是濫訴的駁回案件少我們如何強化來審查落實第四、民事訴訟裁判費21年沒有調整從2003年開始到現在沒有調整我們是不是能夠適度的來調整來防渡濫訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7892.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7910.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
最後一個呢也是我希望司法院針對這整個人員減壓的對策其實要委託一個專業實證的研究好這是我的幾大主張好下一頁那從我4月24的質詢我要肯定一下我當時提出臺北地院 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7911.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7925.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
他針對你們已經上路的員工協助方案EAP但是呢這個心理健康關懷方案只適用給法官那像司法事務官啊書記官啊法官助理這些其他職工沒有用沒有辦法適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7926.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7955.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那我秀出來的before是你們台北地院原本的公告我一質詢之後After馬上改也就是台北地院的所有的除了法官所有的法官助理們事務官們書記官們都可以來用EAP就應當如此所以祕書長我們是不是再花個時間去盤點我們這一套EAP的關懷方案應當所有的地院都要適用好嗎好謝謝擴大所有的司法人員是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7956.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7956.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7957.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7983.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那我也看到我們的院長他有台中地院就是徐院長有建議說我們要認真來面對我們的減壓的相關計畫所以台中地院動作很快他就做了一個公告台中地院的法官這些書記官們呢享有半天假而且是公假可以去美術館看展覽您知道有這個制度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7987.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8009.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
有這種制度。各法院都會彈性來運用。彈性來運用嗎?是用工假半天?我不曉得工假半天這個是一年只給半天還是多久給半天?還是?這個各法院可以彈性處理。好。那您認為這是不是一個好的做法?這個很好的做法。非常好。像我自己在立法院每天這麼高壓,上美術館。 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8010.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8012.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。�� |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8032.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8034.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我希望是能夠有常態化的制度,也就是心理價。 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8056.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8056.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8080.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8097.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那回到我上次說的也是你們提供的數字法官呢還缺499人總人力的需求是5536人這是目前為止所以補20年可能都補不起來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8098.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8117.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這是你們5月7號所提供的書面報告就是我剛剛援引的我也很認真的都從頭看到尾但是你們說要修總原額法修法交給立法院交給我們來做但是呢你們要突破的是先補齊492人對不對因為現在一萬五裡頭只有預算原額14508先補492第二個還要再突破總原額一萬五的上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8128.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8142.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那你覺得樂觀嗎?所以我們當時就期盼人總也能夠來協助,看能不能突破上限。好,下一頁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8143.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8159.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
收罰我們來做我絕對支持但是我認為如何讓立法院協助你們幫你們一把就是你們除了要快速的補齊492人之外也要把15000這個天花板打破那你就提出一個更具體的人力增補計劃跟時程你提出來被國會認為合理可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8165.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8192.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那我們就有更大的助力了不是嗎?是是好不好你們這個人力增補計畫跟時程我不會像黃國昌委員今天要你明天交出資料來一個禮拜交出資料來您要多久時間可以去做一個完整的兩個月三個月我們應該是在兩三個月內就可以那我就給你兩個月的時間好不好去做一個好的時程跟計畫假如能三個月可能還要評鑑啦三個月合理我認為要好好做 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8194.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8219.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
所以說當你們能夠提出而且我要在這裡提醒考試禁用的是我們比較常使用的嘛對不對那多元禁用的比較有困難但是多元禁用的反而是即戰力所以未來要補強眼前的492人或是未來一萬五的這個天花板要打開我也希望你們具體針對考試禁用類跟多元禁用類去找出可行的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8220.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8220.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8242.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8242.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
謝謝,那下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8260.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8283.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好我們來講講這個爛數每年司法院2180位法官每年新收的案件從民事案件314萬跟刑事的案件49萬加起來363萬件是每年新案還不包括手上的舊案所以平均一位法官每年要新做 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8284.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8313.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
一千六百六十五件這就是現在的困境工作loading太大了下一頁那爛訴的部分我們民事訴訟法2021年1月修了給予一個條款第249條也就是可以駁回爛訴的條款對不對那您知道這個法條修了以後幫你們一把上路法條到現在三年多有幾個案子駁回嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8317.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8335.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我的資料是288案正確嗎?是那您覺得這個數字有回應了這個修法的良法美意嗎?協助替大家減壓該裁定駁回的不符合程序或者是欠缺合理依據的就該駁回288件三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8338.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8355.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
因為呈現在訴訟案件裡面如果做了實質實體上的審判用到249條249條之一的案件相對會比較少一點因為畢竟惡意或或者是基於不當目的是相對少數 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8356.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8381.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
相對少數那您認為是本質上相對少數還是我們的現場的法官也會有他的壓力我今天如果去撥回了我撥回的案子比較多是不是被我的上級認為說我比較不認真辦案會不會有這種心理壓力不會不會依法審判沒有這種壓力只是說我們的爛數大部分不是落在實體審判方面而是在程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8382.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8382.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
二十一年沒有調整的訴訟的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8404.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8431.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
你們有沒有演繹可以去想辦法?其實我們在民事訴訟法還有一個77條之27那高等法院就可以因為必要的情勢來擬定數而提高徵收加徵的標準那我們現在目前已經跟高等法院研商讓他們啟動研究程序看看是不是提高徵收標準來解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8433.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8461.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我想問一下臺灣的這個裁判的費用跟國際你們有比較過嗎?是我們當時立法的時候其實是跟日本的徵收的比例大概相當大概都是當時是相當於1%只是日本跟我們不一樣是日本油電費也就是油資他還要徵收那我們現在修法以後是不用徵收 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8462.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8483.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我也支持你們勇敢去計算當然我們如果要調漲裁判費用我們當然也要去強化我們對弱勢的保護不會讓司法因為他的政經地位高他能夠來擁有司法的權利如果政經地位比較低的我們有另外的法律輔助的機構這雙軌都要並進但基本上我認為一個收費標準徵收標準20幾年沒有調整是可以來考量合理的反應成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8491.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8495.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我今天再一次把握機會我的這幾個建議請你們三個月統合給我一個完整的回覆好不好我們一起加油那也希望大家每一次來國會回去心情要盡量保持亮麗 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8515.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8518.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
好,先做會議程序的宣告稍後在政委員天才詢答完畢後休息5分鐘接續請政委員天才進行詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8555.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8580.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
主席、各位委員有請司法院秘書長有請吳秘書長委員好秘書長好昨天跟今天早上外交國防委員會在審查陸海空軍懲罰法這裡面很重要的就是說到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8581.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8608.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
怎麼樣的,因為在討論的過程當中一直希望這個司法院針對這個軍人啊怎麼樣的處懲罰他是一個懲戒還是懲罰這個譬如說軍官、士官、士兵這個行政院版的這個入海工軍懲罰法裡面第18條 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8610.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8635.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
譬如說撤職士官也有撤職這個都是職業軍人然後士兵也有職業軍人廢職起義然後也有剝奪或減少退出集議軍官、士官都有財產前的一個剝奪甚至工作前的撤職 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8638.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8638.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
可以嗎?可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8666.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8692.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
因為現在我們的軍人真的是越來越少所以大家要保障他們的工作權上次這時間的關係上一次在今年的3月4號我在這邊有執行過秘書長當然這個案子更早之前我也執行過前任的秘書長就是說這個我們有一個鄉親 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8695.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8700.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。．並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8721.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8740.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
上列被告因違反山坡地保育利用條例違反山坡地保育利用條例事實上整個查了之後雖然有法輔的律師法輔基金會這邊也有在當初要請法輔的律師也協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8741.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8771.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8771.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8771.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
被判刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8784.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8813.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
後來查了結果才知道原來他不是山坡弟不是山坡弟所以引用了錯誤的法律錯誤的法律雖然他已經過世了但是還是要平反啊畢竟他的子女永遠被一查這個是一個犯刑刑法的被判刑的子女甚至他的子女要繼續使用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8814.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8816.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
所以本席也曾經在這邊質詢過109年11月5號所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8844.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8873.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
你們也很慎重的台灣高等法院及所屬法院法律座談會列了這個臨時提案有假說跟已說結果呢主持人本提案保留不宜討論本提案不宜這麼重大的事情所以我才會在上次上次的時候特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8874.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8889.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
請秘書長回去請同仁再重新來討論上次秘書長說演議再演議這個部分如果還沒有結果的話不要忘記繼續來趕快去處理好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8896.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8913.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這部份已經有送起高院來進行座談會的演繹就是說列為今年度的這個法律座談會的討論很好就做詳細的說明好不好最主要是要做詳細的說明民主黨可以嗎這個會這樣好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8918.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8931.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
好 謝謝政委員 謝謝民主黨在這裡預作會議宣告待會休息五分鐘之後呢我們回來處理臨時提案那如果有意加入很快有意加入連署的委員請趕快加入謝謝那現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8965.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8991.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8991.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8992.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9005.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9012.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。）並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9027.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9027.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9045.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9059.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我知道在這個參考就是說你們可以去參考這個意思是因為我們不曉得在你面前我們不曉得你可以參考這個問題你寫的這句話讓人很痛苦對,你不要糟蹋我們這個是我的心態 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9063.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9081.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9081.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9082.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9106.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9106.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9136.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9136.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
是能力很和諧 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9152.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9156.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
阿他們文章會修改,阿他們會修改。阿這五個,一定是總統去修改,不然修修就... |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9181.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9185.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9211.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9230.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9230.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9241.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。）並備質詢五、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9261.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9281.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9284.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9290.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9309.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9312.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
謝謝主席,主席有請我們司法院的秘書長跟我們金管會司局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9338.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9344.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
有請吳秘書長跟市局長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9345.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9364.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
因為我時間比較有限所以說我一次先把這個題目先講完我想我所關心的當然就是有關於這個保單借款的部分其實我想市局長非常清楚我們在這個疫情期間因為有這個保單借款的紓困以至於讓我們可以有受惠的人數有到16萬424人那麼整個總貸金額是142.67億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9369.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9384.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這對於許多當時的家庭來講這確實是一個及時雨也許不多但是確實是讓他們有機會能夠來做使用那麼今天我們所討論的題目也很謝謝主席特別安排這樣的題目那就是他會變成是接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9386.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9404.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
如果說在未來有這個債權情況發生的時候那麼現在我在房間聽到的是有一些保險的營業員他直接會跟你講說那你要不要先把你的保單拿去做借款這樣子的話你的準備金會降低那降低未來被強制執行的時候那他的金額就下降了 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9405.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9413.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那他甚至於對於這些所謂的債權人來講他就沒有那麼的重要那麼等於是說這個事情回到務實面來講會變成什麼狀況那就是當有這樣的情況出來的時候對於保險公司來講那我會非常的審慎評估這個所謂的保單借款的 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9423.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9443.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
要保人他的必要性因為這個權衡之下對於保險公司來講我也要確保我的債權或者是說未來的部分那我往前來推演就是我想就教的是不論司法院或是保險局那就是當我們現在這個強制執行的過程當中到底保單借款的法律順位是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9443.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9466.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
如果就我們人壽保險的示範條款第18條來講的話保險公司他一定是有上述的包括欠款啊然後扣除之後那麼所剩的餘額他可以要求拿回來但是如果用強制執行法的話我們都知道法的位階是高於這個所謂的條款跟條約的他是以依法優先受償者之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9467.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9494.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
其他的債權人是按照數額來分攤我剛剛先想後面這一張再講前面這個部分是因為現在這個法在這裡我如果站在保險公司的立場我非常擔心的是我保單借款借出去之後我也是債權人之一但是如果就數額來講我是不是平均分配的數額要比較少要跟別人攤但是錢是我保單借出去的啊那再加上這個法規的條款跟執行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9497.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9516.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
執行法當中的未接又不對等所以我想要就教兩位這樣子的狀況未來有沒有可能產生我是不是先請施局長先來回應現在對於受險工會他們在面臨所給予的溝通的過程當中有沒有這樣的回應那有沒有可能有一個狀況是真的會變成是 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9519.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9537.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好像後續大家都會覺得說我如果這個保單值錢尤其是我如果是身懷巨債的人我是不是就先把我的保單拿去把它借了那這樣今天我們討論的東西都沒有什麼好說的了因為你強制執行的過程中都已經貸沒吧因為他借款了 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9540.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9559.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
保單借款其實是我們保險企業賦予這個要保人的一個權利那如果他要借款的話其實保險公司在一定的保單價值準備金的陳述之下他是不可以拒絕的那以目前來看的話民法340條有規定啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9561.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9578.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
其實如果今天已經被扣押那扣押以後才保單借款的話那確實他不能抵銷啦但是如果是在扣押之前他就是覺得我有覺得我可能還不出錢來了我趕快先去保單借款 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9578.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9592.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
因為扣押之前他已經行使的保單借款的話這個部分從過去的那個判決確實是不能這個部分就可以行使抵銷權不能被後面參與分配啦好 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9594.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9600.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那麼我想問一下司法院就是說如果就這個法律的位階來講的話因為我們都知道這個人壽保險的示範條例只是個條規甚至於只是寫在保單裡頭的一個項目但是就強制執行法來說的話它的位階是比較高的所以我們怎麼樣來因應因為我也必須講喔這些東西都需要保險公司願意配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9614.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9615.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
最後問一下市局長,那麼跟受選公會這邊有溝通嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9645.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9651.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這一個部分應該受選工會他們討論還是依照示範條款的這樣的一個精神啦對 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9652.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9660.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
所以現在對於保險公會或者是保險公司來說他們比較覺得反映的是突然案件量增加但是至於後面的後續的操作上面是比較沒有爭議的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9677.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9679 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
好,謝謝委員,謝謝秘書長。好,那麼現在我們來處理臨時提案,那請宣讀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9699.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9725.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
臨時提案一修正本略以為兼顧債權人、債務人及其他利害關係人權益維護保險保障功能。建請司法院參考司法院於107年8月7日函班之《刑事案件量刑及定執行刑參考要點之例》會同金管會保險局、法務部執行署、受刑工會根據保單類型解約金訂定排除範圍並設定一定金額以下解約金 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9726.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9749.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
李培鈞不得扣押及執行等項制定保單強制執行參考原則提案人委員鍾嘉斌、莊瑞雄、陳俊宇、吳思瑤、吳宗憲、林楚英、羅志強宣讀完畢。好,那麼因為現在處理臨時提案第一案齁,那針對臨時提案請問機關有其他意見或補充修改,來,莊委員請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9751.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9751.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9766.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9774.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
保險契約終止或者你解除以後那個我們在債務人在債權人在執行的他那個理賠的扣押的上限的問題而已是不是也一併把它解決再加一個也請我們剛幾位委員在執行裡面所提到的我們司法院會同這個金融監理機關這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9791.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9791.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
有關介入權的部分應該在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9821.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9832.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
應該在這個主管機關是金管會不是司法院可能沒有辦法在同一包提案裡面解決以上來這樣子在場委員那個羅委員要表示意見嗎來請我很認同我們的宗嘉斌委員這個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9838.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9860.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
實質上我覺得現在這個問題我覺得有一個東西是不是能夠請教一下我們的主管機關就是說一定金額以下的解約金跟理賠金然後不得扣押及執行那這一定金額你們有一個大概的所謂的一個想法嗎一定金額大概是多少請市局長幫忙做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9871.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9885.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
當初我們有討論到的是那個結約金的部分但我還沒有討論到理賠給付的問題啦那初步我們當初有討論看看那時候有算一個金額大概10萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9893.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9908.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
但是這個前提是我們把傷害險、健康險這些保障型的險種都已經先排除了針對一般的這個有儲蓄型的險種他就適用這個一定金額以下不予扣押 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9909.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9909.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9934.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9934.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
以司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9962.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9991.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
一零七年八月七日韓班之括號內部的為例這個就是保持原來的樣子鬥點後面寫才加入建請司法院會同金管會保險局法務部執行署受險工會根據保單類型解約金定定排除範圍並設定一定金額以下解約金理賠金不得扣押及執行等項 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9992.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10013.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
制定保單強制執行參考原則我想這樣才不會造成誤解因為畢竟前面的參考要點跟後面的參考原則是兩個完全不同類型的東西所以我們把它作為一個為例然後再建請司法院來會同其他相關機關來訂定那請問各位委員如果文字上狀況的修改是否可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10015.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10017.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
李委員坤澄 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10051.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10073.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
謝謝主席我們請這個司法院的秘書長還有這個民視廳的廳長還有這個法務部的行政執行署的署長請吳秘書長、周廳長和法務部黃署長委員好謝謝秘書長這個也謝謝主席今天安排這麼有意義的一個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10073.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10095.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那這也應該是很難得在司法法制委員會可以一直繼續開下去不用中途被喊散會先請教一下這個強制執行保險契約目前有兩個機關一個是法院的民事執行處另外一個是法務部執行的執行署我先請教一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10096.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10110.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
在我根據這個財政部的報告財政部的報告那財政部現在就是說這個如果欠稅的話是我由這一個法務部行政執行署來執行嘛是不是對那根據財政部的報告這個國稅局從111年12月9號到113年的4月30號這個這段時間應該就是在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10118.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10121.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
最高法院民事大法庭裁定之後,國稅局的強制執行人授契約案件有509件,起徵稅額2.54億。 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10133.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10152.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這是委由法務部行政執行署來做執行我看了一下你們這個執行你們有一個執行的原則在你們報告裡面也有你們執行原則有四個原則第一個傷害險期健康醫療險還有一個一年期的短壽險微型的保單 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10154.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10166.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
第三個,保險金額累計金額新台幣90萬以下的小型受險,還有預估解約金還有扣除手續費之後10萬元以下的受險契約,不宜扣押及執行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10169.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10170.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
法院的這個有關這個保單的這個執行這個案數是暴增 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10199.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10226.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這個從112年1月到113年的3月合法扣押有34680件中時保險契約有8712件那我剛剛也聽了很多的委員在講這個不是只有說就你們法院來講這個案件是增加其實我們看到是更多這個保險人他們因為被扣了這個保單之後所衍生出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10227.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10244.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
他們的這個復約不管是這個健康險或是說一些受險的一些相關的一些問題我們看到的是這個問題那可是我剛剛聽到了這一個你們在回覆這一個委員的這個答詢的時候尤其在法院的部分其實法院的部分你們目前有沒有什麼相關的準則 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10246.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10249.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
市長 秘書長 我是認為 這個可能請保險局這個司局長過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10272.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10289.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
當然就這個相關點業務來講應該是保險局那保險局那我因為我是認為說這一個這一個有關這個情人執行所他們的這個規定我認為也可以讓法院來做參考那保險局局長你認為勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10292.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10292.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那保險局認為呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10312.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10321.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
報告委員行政執行署這個原則其實是跟我們討論的結果那我們未來的參考原則還會重新再檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10322.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10344.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
在提供司法院還有行政執行署來參考這個是你們有跟這個行政執行署你們有去找過這個保險局來做討論那你們這個在保險法相關規定還沒修改之前可不可以就先按照這個讓這個法院來做一個參考我們就準備要做這個事情不然我剛剛聽這個不管是秘書長或是廳長他們就覺得說這個目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10348.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10349.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
民主黨,您認不認同? |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10369.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10369.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10385.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10402.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
因為我們的執行債權人是一般民眾或者是金融機構不是行政機關所以我們跟行政執行署的強制執行的性質不太一樣我們一旦自己訂定一些不與執行的標準或要點出來其實債權人會異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10404.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10406.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我聽到秘書長說是方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10430.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10451.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
這個準則我認為還是就是說保險局這邊這個在最短的時間你們可以多久的時間出來一個準則讓法院做參考的一個月我們五月底就要討論了五月底就要討論五月底討論然後不知道多久才會出來那六月應該就可以送給他們參考我是希望齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10454.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10468.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
在法院這邊因為引起最多民怨的其實是在法院案件也特別多那我希望說有一個準則其實也是減輕法官的這個負荷量那對於這個債務人也有相對的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10469.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10485.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這當然保障債權但是我們認為說有一些這個主約結束之後的副約其實剛剛大家提到的不管是健康險或是其他的保單其實要保障弱勢的這個也是我們今天特別召開這一個這個會議最主要的一個原因好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10487.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10506.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
謝謝主席謝謝李委員謝謝秘書長等謝謝李委員的提問也讓我們民視廳廳長有機會說明行政執行署跟法院司法院他們在處理不同的要點原則所適用面對的對象是不太一樣的那在這裡呢也跟在場的委員做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10507.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10527.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那麼我們現在進行的議程在立法院是可以透過網路連結看到即時的影像那我之前也跟大家報告了今天的這個專題報告事實上有包括民間的電台主動的告知民眾要來收看那剛剛我們在臨題處理過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10528.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10549.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
也已經有看到臨題處理過程的民眾打電話call in給電台的主持人他傳簡訊要我謝謝在場的委員也謝謝我們今天列席的機關代表謝謝大家這些可能因此身為此所苦的民眾看到我們今天的及時處理他們都如釋重負希望能夠早日能夠解除這樣的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10550.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10557.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
接下來我們繼續邀請洪孟凱委員, 洪孟凱, 洪孟凱委員不在,有請鄭振淺委員, 鄭振淺, 鄭委員不在,有請吳釗緯中線,請。好,謝謝釗緯,那我們請法務部及金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10575.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10587.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
法務部黃署長今天提案我們是非常支持所以有參與聯署但是我等一下問的問題可能就比較離題但是我是非常支持趙偉的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10598.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10606.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
主要是這樣啦,就是因為這段時間啊,詐欺案件一直暴增嘛,那除了一些福國利民的法案之外,我們也要去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10607.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10626.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
而把一些對社會傷害比較大的事情我們要想想看要怎麼去處理當然所有的這種處理其實司法本來應該是最末端行政是前端就要處理結果我們現在有一點顛倒了我們把所有社會上面發生的事情我們就丟給檢警調讓他們去處理其實這個邏輯上是錯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10629.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10649.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
應該是第一個前階段行政單位要把該管控的東西管控好他才會減少後階段司法的負荷並沒有人會把司法放在最前端去防堵這些事情的發生那我想說我上個月有去參加高檢署的那個打詐的研討會那研討會裡面其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10652.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10676.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
這些問題大概都是老生常談了啦我們都知道現在詐欺集團他有一個最重要的東西他這個金流一定要有辦法他一定要拿到你的錢這他才有這個詐騙的意義所以呢他非常的需要一些工具那這些工具不外乎就是人頭帳戶啦電子支付帳戶個人幣商或第三方支付的帳戶或者是那個電信的門號 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10678.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10694.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
但是這段時間我們從這個數據我現在PowerPoint上面的數據看得出來其實這幾年起訴人頭賬戶的起訴率大概只有三成其實這個原因有非常多這個不能說都怪司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10695.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10713.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
因為當然第一個刑事訴訟制裁嚴格的證據主義再來就是其實有很多賬戶持有人他自己是被害人所以這個起訴率高跟低我不在這個上面去下一個價值的判斷但是呢我這邊要提的一個點就是當我們想到的是第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10715.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10742.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
第一層的帳戶那我們有沒有想到第二層跟第三層的帳戶我覺得這個是目前一個很大的一個漏洞第一層的帳戶就是被害人把錢匯過去的那個是第一層的帳戶但是呢被害人他錢匯過去之後這個帳戶會在很快的時間內馬上轉到第二層或第三層那這個第二層跟第三層帳戶我請問一下金管會你們有在管理這個有在監控這個部分嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10744.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10762.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
報告委員,這個部分因為是我們銀行級在主政的業務啦,所以我可能對這個比較不熟悉,可能要再把委員的意見轉給他們。好,那這樣好了,我也不為難,我提一個東西啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10763.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10791.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我們今天在司法上面大家處理的都是第一層的帳戶也就是說被害人把錢匯進去的那個帳戶但是事實上幕後的首腦他要拿到這些錢他會透過這個從第一層再轉到第二層轉到第三層轉了好幾層之後才會進到那個背後的這個操控者他們的手中那這段時間呢我發現一個狀況就是第二層跟第三層帳戶沒有人去管 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10793.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10815.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
這個東西其實應該是監管會要去管的這個不是那個檢查機關或什麼他們已經沒有那麼多人力了所以你們是不是應該要回過頭去跟檢方要資料或跟法院去看判決第二層賬戶跟第三層賬戶你們是不是要及時比如說做圈存的動作讓被害人可以拿回錢因為我跟你說所有的被害人來找我 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10816.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10838.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
他心中只想一件事情我錢拿不拿的回來至於被告被判刑與否他說我一點都不在意我只希望錢拿回來救我這個家庭結果我們把真正該做的事情我們放錯重點了你放在第一層賬戶那些很多還是被害人起訴率又很低結果真正錢傳過去錢放在第二層第三層 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10838.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10868.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10870.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10884.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這2層3層這個帳戶因為有非常多2層3層的帳戶他已經在非常多案件中出現過了可是還是持續可以用這真的不應該而且你在判決裡面看到有很多帳戶都重複出現結果沒有人管好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10885.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10889.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
因為他去那個中心化到最後轉給真正幕後的那個人你根本追不到結果我們人民的錢就在這裡面就一個一個不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10916.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
10930.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
請看一個禮拜內能不能先給我一個初步的回覆好不好那你再看喔我們看警示帳戶從110年到112年其實我們警示帳戶一直在增加等於是每天有75個新的警示帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
10932.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
10947.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
這是很恐怖的啊等於是你管理完全失能了就是因為管理失能所以今天的犯罪集團才會這麼囂張這麼好騙錢那導致現在社會上面民怨就是炸氣電信炸氣就是首要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
10949.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
10976.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
當然我們知道現在你們有要求銀行要做好KYC但是KYC做沒有太大的用處他在開戶的時候他就是一個正常的老百姓可是事後怎麼去使用怎麼提供給犯罪集團這個你追不到所以KYC你去做沒有錯可是你要知道不是只做KYC只做KYC沒有辦法杜絕這個人頭賬戶的越來越多人頭賬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
10979.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11002.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那其實人頭賬戶我知道啦管理也不是沒有效果我知道大家都很努力所以人頭賬戶從我以前在當檢察官初期一本3000塊到現在一本要二三十萬這是政府打詐的成果沒有錯但是我覺得還是要積極做因為現在每年新的出來的人頭賬戶還是一大堆而且數量一直在往上面增加好那我們再往下看好 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11004.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11005.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
接下來我們請法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11021.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11021.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11038.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11060.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
110年的總預算這預算案裡面我們可以看到已經花了不少錢了111年花了1100萬1100多那後面112年900也就是說我們這些年其實花費非常多的錢在AI系統的建置那我想請問你一下那現在效果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11062.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11084.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
是委員因為我是行政執行署署長那這方面應該是檢察你也是檢察官出身的對只能講說如果以我行政執行署的角度的話AI的確是我們法務部的一個重點那以行政執行署來講在對這種打詐的話這種前端的設備這是檢察官也感謝那個立法院的支持的預算跟行政院的撥用 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11084.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11114.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
但我行政執行署可以用的是在詐騙集團只要被查扣的時候在偵查中檢察官要變賣不管是泰拉幣啦或者是其他的動產的話我們行政執行署在第一個時間就會予以變賣符合剛才委員所講的備案人所最關心的就是外籍到底能不能要回來所以我們行政執行署扮演這個角色所以我們在AI這邊的話行政執行署也有加強不過剛才委員提到的這部分是不是容我那個帶回去那由我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11114.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11121.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我只是抓到被告其實這個對國人沒有意義阿他的錢還是拿不回來所以他不會在乎這個點我覺得我們要打對這個點 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11143.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11166.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那我再跟您說明一下就是這幾個有幾個東西再麻煩您回去跟法務部那個說一下就是目前啦這個AI我這個AI輔助系統我在幾場公聽會上面學者跟專家都抱怨效果非常的不彰那我再回去問了一下那個基層的檢察官他們跟我的講法是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11168.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11176.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
你看下一頁喔簡單的案件檢察官不想用困難的案件現階段的AI的狀況根本用不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11177.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11206.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
你像酒駕好了如果我套用自己習慣的例稿我10分鐘可以寫完一篇書類結果我用AI生成出來的例稿我還要花時間去看到底對不對內容還亂七八糟這就是所有基層強官跟我說的那難得呢你給他出差案件金融案件他根本辦不了所以我們到底花那麼多錢建置這個東西的價值在哪裡所以用AI去發展未來我覺得是對的但是現階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11208.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11225.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
現階段是不是實用 你要麻煩你請部裡面搞清楚這個點那我們回過頭去看最後一分鐘 回過頭去看上一頁我希望部裡面能夠提出一個報告 而且我希望一個禮拜內提出啦 因為馬上就520了 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11227.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11254.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我們希望的數據是要符合預設案件類型的案件數到底有多少我希望這個數據實際採用的案件數有多少還有成效的滿意度因為我認為錢要花在刀口上這些都是人民繳的稅金所做出來的預算最後我希望法務部你們要注意一下資源的分配其實與其在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11256.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11257.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
新北市府法治局 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11271.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11297.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
開會全部都是用電子檔案警察能不能夠把他的移送報告什麼電子檔就能夠直接給檢察官給書記官讓他可以直接引用來簡化書記官的作業我想這個實務如果現場實務第一線的檢察官一聽他可能非常感動終於有人想到這件事了好不好再麻煩法務部能夠想一下還有提升遠端視訊設備啦就減緩這個警察解送人犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11297.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11312.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
還有檢察官在地監署等移送人犯這件事你也知道有時候屏東還要送到台北警察人力太辛苦了好那在這邊就麻煩能夠向法務部反映這件事然後一個禮拜給我報告好謝謝好謝謝委員指導好謝謝吳昭偉謝謝署長接下來請盧偶委員致強質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11330.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11333.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
主席,有請司法院、法務部、金管會、財政部。 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11342.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11367.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
首先我這邊先感謝我們宗家兵委員召委安排今天這一場專報那針對強制執行保單解約的一個問題那邀請各個主管單位來報告因為我們辦公室也在關切這個問題事實上我們也接到非常多的一些陳情案件那已經是真的是造成很廣大的民怨 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11367.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11392.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
其實不只造成民怨,其實他的案件也造成司法單位很大的負擔之前我們還一直在討論有關於司法法官的案件量過多所以造成今天負荷過重甚至有法官不幸墜樓像這種情形其實都跟我們在有些制度的設計上可能都有一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11393.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11420.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
所以非常感謝那個中嘉賓委員他今天安排這場專報但是我們今天這個臨時提案所以當中委員找我做這個臨時提案連述的話我也是馬上就同意不過這臨時提案其實也只是做權宜之計是在我們的法制跟制度跟政策修改之前那針對現在的亂象基本上等於是畫一個直寫的線而已但終究長遠來講的話我覺得還是需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11422.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11445.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
在制度面上要拿出一個方法所以那有幾個問題想要就教一下就是也讓大家看看這個問題的嚴重度我們知道授權保單它是不是可以視為債務人的財產而變成法院強制執行的標的那主要是這個紛爭的緣起就是110年度12月9號最高法院民事大法庭108年 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11447.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11463.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
就是台抗大治第897號裁定中．他認為執行法院在必要時可以核發執行命令終止債務人為邀保人的人壽保險契約．命第三人保險公司償付解約金 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11463.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11481.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
那這個897才定之後實際上債權人向執行法院申請強制執行的時候那麼這個申請查詢債務對保險公司的人壽保險契約債權者大幅增加我看法務部也有給數字嘛就是司法院給數字112年1月1號到113月就是總共查詢了多少件 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11487.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11506.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
二十三萬件嘛對不對那其實這就是一個很大很大的一個我們講多出來的很大的負擔那不只是說查詢以外和合法扣押命令也有三萬四千六百八十件那合法執行命令終止債務人為邀保人之人受保險契約有8712件 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11509.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11536.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那現在就是全國有21家保險公司兩家的總公司是在士林地方法院的轄區其他19家都是在這個臺灣臺北地方法院的轄區內所以因此案件量確實是大增我想問一下我們的司法院秘書長現在對於這個事情目前法院的狀況是如何啊已經變成很沉重的負擔了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11538.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11565.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
所以我們在臺北地院執行處那邊就在4月份就趕快新增7個執行局包括這個司機關7個人、指導員7個人還有司法事務官5個人另外增加委員會人力17人那一些辦公室趕快擴增還有事務機趕快增設這些我們都趕快要應急變成重災區 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11567.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11585.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
其實我跟秘書長剛好講一件事這個其實跟我們之前關切的就是法官過勞還有書記官、檢察官過勞都有相同的類似問題因為雖然說我是非常秘書長你知道我都非常支持今天法官的員額因為案件量實在大增法官員額應該要增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11588.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11605.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
但是其實另外一個法官過牢的原因也不純粹是就是人手不足的問題而是近來很多的一些案件整個數量大增跟就像比方說今天這件事情就憑空就突然就多出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11605.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11620.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
的非常大的案件員那如果說今天能夠做一些簡化的一些做措施的話或是做一些那個制度上的調整的話你就可以有效的減少很多案件所以不是純粹剛剛下面就講說我們能力增加而已來應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11621.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11647.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
更重要的是要去檢視這些案件人員的增加他是怎麼來的那有沒有辦法透過什麼方式去合理的來減少這個案件的來源或是做什麼分比方說之前我有在質詢的時候講到就是檢察官檢警分工的問題那檢警如果分工做得好的話有些很重複的一些司法程序被節省下來的時候那就可以讓我們司法人員實質上的負擔就減輕嘛這一點我不知道秘書長認不認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11649.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11655.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我想藉這個機會跟委員表達一個想法剛剛委員有問到程序簡化的問題我們目前查詢的案件有23萬件正如委員所說 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11673.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11688.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那如果這個查詢事件在事發之初也就是債權人不向法院申請直接向受選工會去申請那麼這些東西就不會在法院跟受選工會之間流動 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11690.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11691.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
在全人不能直接向授權公會查詢這些事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11705.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11707.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那中間的這些浪費的程序跟勞費就可以減省下來? |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11734.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11759.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那我想聽聽一下金管會的意見可以說明一下跟委員報告因為我們現在建立的保險通報系統原來是經過這個藥保人同意那保險公司才把他的投保的這個資訊建置在這個壽檢工會那他的目的當初我們請這個藥保人同意的目的是要做核保使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11760.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11776.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11776.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11790.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
他們才會請那個法院依照這個法令的規定來要求查詢其實我剛剛看主席也笑了兩邊聽起來都有道理可是問題是現在你現在增加的東西就是雙方要協調出一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11792.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11815.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
這是為什麼剛剛講說我們中央兵召委講了一個臨時提案其實只是暫時稍微去緩和問題你光這件事情我覺得兩邊就真的是要協調出一個做法一方面當然是對於所謂法律程序的更嚴謹的保障但另外一方面也有涉及到說今天就是多了23萬件的案件量其實不只是這個東西啦因為我今天都還沒有時間討論到 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11816.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11842.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們對於所謂的那個一般的民眾今天這個就是去保險的民眾我們介紹真的是像我們剛剛為什麼講說要限定一個金額那有些那種要保金額那非常低微但是可是你們繼續做這些事情其實對他們騷擾跟所謂的那個干擾是很大的也去破壞了今天保險制度設計的一個重點所以這是我剛剛講的第一個點那我現在回到說我們家那個897的這個部分就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11845.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11858.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
當時法院認為的必要性是在哪裡?什麼叫必要性?他說必要時可以核發命令宗旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11859.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
11879.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
然後債務為要保人的人受保險契約那這必要性的原則是什麼所以呢法院在審查的時候就會回到強制執行法第一條跟122條去審查當然看似好像是沒有一個具體標準但在實際的我們具體個案其實所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
11883.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
11900.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
一般的司法事務官就會去審查這保險契約的性質是什麼有沒有覆約那麼要債務人的比如說他的年紀多大有沒有工作能力可不可能再獲得營業收入還有就是他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
11901.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
11927.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
本身還有共同生活的這些家屬他的基本需求是什麼那會去做一個衡量這就是我覺得你就看到這整個財產有多複雜你光一個必要性三個字已經講那麼久了但是我今天回到民眾的身上來看我就受理一些案件啊比方其中一個個案民眾是他是在二三十幾年前為哥哥所開的公司做擔保人 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
11927.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
11942.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
他哥哥因為經商失敗加上過世所以債務就到這個陳其能身上然後但是最後即便他是還了一些但是因為債務的負擔過大最後當事人被強制執行的保險除了自己的以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
11943.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
11944.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
因為要看它全部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
11967.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
11982.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我這樣講啦基本上我知道啦基本上你這個所謂的這個897其實主要是避免說一些債務人脫產嘛對不對可是我跟你講你去講債務人脫產有時候那個金額剛剛我們講10萬元以上10萬元以下那種金額20萬金額說真的要脫產不是脫這個金額的啦不是嗎還有像這種2、30年前的保單他當時就那麼遠見要脫產嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
11994.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12011.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
所以這樣子在衡量之下通常會認為不需要解約那我想在我們實務的可是我跟你講你實際上就是做到往解約方向走他就被強制執行啊所以因此今天你一個法院的一個裁定你今天說的不清不楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12012.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12036.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
執行下去就是幾十萬人受害都被捲到這裡面去真的我真的拜託今天不只是今天從法官減量啦你今天從所謂的民眾今天受到這麼多的困擾因為保險它有社會安定的一個功能對不對而且保單都是二三十年前做的金額也不大結果到最後是因為後來的一個不可預期的債務事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12037.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12048.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那你也跟你本來想要防止脫產這件事情是有備的啦因為實際上他不是為了脫產目的那這種部分的話真的不能再推來推去拜託研擬出一個方式來解決這個問題以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12051.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12079.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
謝謝秘書長等署長也謝謝羅委員事實上也跟羅委員說明一下今天我們有邀請到中華民國人壽保險商業同業工會的金副秘書長他非常賢手私下或許可以委員可以跟他請教為什麼那個執行法院一申請人申請向他們查詢債務人的投保資料有那麼多件謝謝羅委員接下來有請王委員宏威王委員宏威不在好 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12080.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12106.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那麼所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢,詢答結束。那麼委員諮詢時,要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者,請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會。委員黃珊珊、傅坤祺、翁曉琳所提書面諮詢均列入記錄刊登公報,並請相關機關以書面答覆。現在進行議程所列預算解凍案處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12107.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12121.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
處理前先請議事委員一併宣讀報告事項及討論事項之預算解凍案。宣讀後在主案進行討論。宣讀過程當中與解凍案無關之列席機關代表可先行離席。請宣讀時間大1分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12124.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12144.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
報告事項第三案至第七案司法院含為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢送稅數第四款第一項決議三、決議四、決議六、決議七十八及決議七十九預算凍結書面報告請查招案等五案。討論事項第一案至第三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12144.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12157.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
司法院含為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢送稅出第4款第一項決議一、決議二及決議五預算凍結書面報告請查照案等3案。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12175.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12193.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
好,現在進行處理先處理報告事項第三案至七案有關司法院113年度預算解凍書面報告案既已列入議程報告並經宣讀那作成如下決定報告事項第三至七案均准予被查提報院會請問有異議有來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12199.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12213.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
而那個針對有關於現在司法院要解凍的案子從這些書面報告來看司法院該做的很多事情都還沒有做那因此就這樣子的方式與解凍競表不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12221.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12241.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
今天有5個案子它對應的是113年度中央政府總預算裡頭的不同款項換言之又是不同的可能預算內容所以如果有黃國昌委員認為司法院做得不夠好我們是不是進入實質每一個案子哪一個部分您覺得不夠好也讓他們有個機會來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12242.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12245.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
來,黃委員可以啊,我們就來一款一款的討論我們先進行第三案,請看第一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12270.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12277.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那對於這個內容請委員表示意見司法院的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12289.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12296.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
明細,這裡面有提到他的113年度司法院稅出預算當中有一個電腦資訊作業的軟體資訊軟硬體設備費編列凍結200萬來 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12311.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12323.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
這個凍結案最主要是因為愛台灣他們在所提供的法院造成了無限存續點沒有辦法滿足民眾上面的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12324.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12349.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
就司法院目前所提供的狀態他說他強化通訊品質的機制但問題是他如何強化通訊品質的機制強化完了以後改善前跟改善後差別在哪裡我從這個報告裡面我完全沒有看到上面寫的全部都是形容詞我應該沒有理解錯誤吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12352.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12355.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
請秘書長說明委員可以看我們的會議資料目前是底下的頁碼大致的是第4頁跟第5頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12385.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12407.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
請說明主席跟各位委員好因為現在最主要就是一般民眾本身普遍都有自己的行動裝置那還有就是國家的預算裡面有投入一些預算就是有帶台灣那現在是之前反映的時候是說有一些民眾收信收不到那收不到的時候我們會加裝就是ADSLADSL就是比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12409.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12409.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
司法院執行部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12430.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12440.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
這裡之前沒有明確指出到底是哪一個地方因為如果有民眾環境我們才去加裝我們不會說普遍全部加裝因為這樣會浪費很多的很多的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12442.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12442.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
好,來那個委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12471.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12491.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我非常同意要透過討論然後來看哪裡做得不夠好可以來精進那現在是您剛的說明是說現在確實就是我們的就是每個國人盡可能自己的手機都有自己可以用的行動裝置但是這也不完全說我們公務機關的這個系統就可以不夠進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12492.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12522.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12523.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12551.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
福原遼闊那這必須是哪裡不夠好然後我才能夠來看說你的這個回應是不是有對接到是不是合理啦好所以拳頭還是要回到說請黃國昌委員您如果方便的話應當在具體來幫司法院一把哪個地方跟您反映哪一個地方的愛台灣不夠好那是哪一個法院或是哪一個檢疫庭那這樣子我們絕對會要求我也覺得這樣合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12551.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12551.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
好,謝謝那個羅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12567.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12581.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
第一個就是因為這個預算凍結我也不知道為什麼司法院現在才講說卡錯預算那上一屆為什麼不說明一下你的凍結的那個預算是卡錯地方這第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12582.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12604.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
當然我也認同剛剛那個吳世耀委員講的就是說你到最後討論到最後結果我們今天是討論辛酸嘛就你根本凍結預算是卡錯的項目那第二個可是司法院自己說明都講說愛台灣齁這個一遭詬病連線不穩常常當機齁那也有收訊或連線不穩的情形你自己都講這個狀況的時候那我想請問你那你怎麼解決愛台灣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12606.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12618.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
施法院怎麼解的案例我覺得剛剛那個我們國倉委員講的也對啊就是說基本上前面凍結先不管是不是卡錯預算啦凍結的原因你並沒有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12620.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12645.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
都是形容詞他講的就是基本上並沒有一個實際量化讓我們看到說你改進的一個狀況那就算有那如果真的有那也很好但你也沒寫進報告裡面那當然這邊我想這個出席委員就會認為說那請問這個預算凍結的狀況原來那個原因好像沒有消失啊我就沒有看到在報告上消失那請問那我們怎麼來去做這個解凍的這件事情呢以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12646.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12656.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那我現在再補充一下因為我本身事實上是用5G的那因為我們要了解這個網路的狀況譬如說我用立法院的因為立法院有申請一個Guest |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12657.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12676.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那事實上今天我在聯的時候他的速度就很慢那我就開自己的5G所以變成說那會不會因為這樣子所以我們因為現在的如果ADS他的穩定度一定不會有5G高嘛那是不是為了這樣子我們所有的地方全部在復建你是更強的那我覺得這是國家預算的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12678.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12701.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
所以我才想說我們是譬如說針對偏遠的地區他可能一定會比較弱那我們就裝A、A、D、S、A那其他的部分確實要反映所以我們接下來就要強化就是說我們有可能就是說看哪一個地方確實民眾反映說有可能收訊不到或者說如果委員有資料直接提供我們馬上馬上做就馬上改善因為這種東西不會是一個普遍的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12703.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12720.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
因為不管是愛台灣或者立法院他這種品質當然不能跟我們現在4G、5G在比可是我們為了這一點東西國家算全部放進去所以之前同仁他們也想說是不是編到1800萬去強化那我那時候說再怎麼貴也不會超過200萬那以上補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12720.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12742.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
好 謝謝應該是何處長是不是請秘書長跟處長我們移到前面有麥克風的位置這樣坐著比較好討論因為事實上我們在預算討論的時候大家都是坐著比較能夠充分的發言那麼要發言的部分的主管就上到前面有麥克風這樣面對面比較好談那麼關於這個部分我大概重整一下在場委員的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12743.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12770.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
那麼以及執行機關的看法那由於是上一屆在審議預算的時候做出了一個200萬凍結的目的那目的呢他的照上次的提案原意他是希望能夠改善那目前目前提書面報告說明改善的狀況大概裡面呢也是說強調他的強化資訊品質但是以有限的預算要強化到什麼程度這個也要看給予的預算多寡 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12770.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12785.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
另外他還提到了治安的作為因為他們這裡也提到說當民眾使用Wi-Fi的管理機制才登錄認證之後才能使用無線網路其實網路的方便跟防害是相對應的防火牆越高你越難 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12787.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12787.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
請莊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12813.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12829.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我來說明一下,我記得不管是在臺北地院或者各法院開庭的時候確實裡面的Wi-Fi那個部分、通訊確實是比較糟糕的地方這幾年也很少去,但是我是不是也這樣子建議國常委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12830.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12847.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我們是叫他們來改善,然後來給那個解凍。那現在似乎啊,我們司法院這個地方也搞不清楚,有哪些地方也要去改善。因為全面性的,確實現在大家的一般民眾啊,大家都有手機啦,大家都有手機啦。那要怎麼樣做更普遍? |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12851.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
12874.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那確實是這個都要砸進去預算是不是這樣如果是預算給你們我會建議那個在黨的好朋友給他們支持但是這個部分確實也要去你們自己內部也要去你們必須要清楚各個法院都有你們自己的同事哪些地方搜尋是比較糟的反而是我們一直在講說要建立一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
12875.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
12883.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
第一個這個是上一屆國會所提出的凍結案那上一屆國會提出這個凍結案參與的人或許都不在了但這並不構成新的國會隨隨便便混過去就可以了這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
12905.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
12930.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
第二個司法院對於上一屆國會所提出的這個凍結案如果不合理的話上一屆國會怎麼不說明都已經做成了決議了嘛做成了決議新的國會接續把關本來就是我們的職責啊不是嗎第三個說得更莫名其妙啊說哪裡不好我還要去幫你測喔哪裡不好我還要去幫你測喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
12932.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
12960.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
預算是在你手上還是在我手上?權利是在你手上還是在我手上?我沒有辦法接受的事情是什麼?司法院把立法院、司法法制委員會當成橡皮圖章欸大家看一下書面報告是怎麼寫的看一下書面報告強化通訊品質機制於民間下工區域繼續提供足夠的無限存取點數量以提供較佳的通訊品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
12963.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
12980.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
這是在寫什麼作文啊你之前之後你在什麼地方多放了幾個點連基本的數據都沒有啊啊你寫了形容詞了以後我們看完這些形容詞就要放行喔對不起我無法同意啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
12981.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
12986.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
委員會來綜合的來做一個判斷好不好那接下來我們看下一個第4案第4案就是有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13009.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13032.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
他的審判行政下辦理刑事審判行政編列5887萬9千元凍結150萬元那麼提出書面報告使得凍結那提案委員大概包括劉建國委員林淑芬委員吳其林委員等都還在我們在位置上就可以回應了那請問這個案子委員看法如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13036.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13051.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
當初,司法院在推動國民法官的制度,多了多少錢在做宣傳,我相信秘書長很清楚,整個國民法官的制度,光宣傳的費用就上億了,過去這幾年,每一年加起來, |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13052.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13075.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
以現行實施的制度上面當國民法官的制度提案凍結的內容是檢審雙方、檢辯雙方他所造成實際上面在訴訟上面的攻防出現了明顯不對等的對待的時候這個攸關了整個審判的公正性這個也攸關了被告刑事人權的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13076.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13092.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
這個提案的意思非常的好但你們目前所提出來的資料對於現實上面所存在的簡便雙方實力不對等的狀態實質上面的武器是不是平等你們提出來的報告根本沒有辦法解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13094.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13118.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那今天我們如果就這樣子給解凍了是不是代表司法院對現在第一線國民法官制度實務上面所操作出現的問題都已經解決了呢我不認為已經解決啦所以我反對好 那麼請司法院秘書長檢要說明因為我們案子還有好幾案來請好 那個行事 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13120.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13143.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
報告委員,對於這個減變的資源不對等,畢竟這個法律才剛施行,那的確在一些制度上可能有一些措施可能沒有辦法說馬上吸引到說比較好的律師來參與這樣的國民法官的案件,所以我們的確有制定一些計畫,包含短期、中期跟長期的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13143.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13165.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那就長期來講當然主要還是要由律師來參與這樣一個辯護才比較合整個訴訟的體制但是就短期來講因為畢竟律師他們會有市場的效應的問題啦畢竟國民法官的案件來講他的一個收益並會排擠掉律師的其他的收益所以就短期來講律師是不太可能也不太願意來參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13166.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13190.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
這份我們當然是配合法服請法服成立專職律師這樣的一個制度來吸引說比較有能力的律師來參與但是就短期來講如果說律師這一方面沒辦法配合的時候我們可能還是必須透過法院自己內部的約聘的編務人來做這樣的一個國民法官業務的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13191.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13210.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13210.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13210.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
謝謝我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13238.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13254.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
處長、聽長我這樣子說明一下這邊跟委員說明因為報告事項第3案到第7案它事實上是一個報告事項任何的一個案子委員會有意見我們就全部的報告事項做一個處理所以剛剛因為第3案已經有不同意見了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13255.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13277.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那後面不管有沒有意見其實我們是全部的報告事項要做整批的處理所以呢因為有委員對3至7案有提出意見那麼報告事項預算解凍書面報告案做如下決定那麼軍令定期繼續處理我想因為它一共5個案嘛那我們是整個處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13279.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13305.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
還是黃委員你有針對哪一個案子?就是剛剛這兩個案子我剛剛譜齁我只要譜兩句話啦剛剛主席宣告另定其處理嘛這個結論我可以接受但我要鄭重告訴司法院的是你剛剛所說的制度剛上路難免有一些不足的地方當你在講這句話的時候我希望你冷靜的想一想 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13307.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13331.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
當初國民法官制度在上路的時候社會各界的呼籲是什麼沒有準備好就上路沒有準備好就上路你是拿初期的訴訟當事人的權益在開玩笑嗎可以這樣做嗎司法的攤評可以這樣操作嗎當初司法院不是信誓旦旦準備好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13333.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13342.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
只要等到開始出現問題的時候不好意思喔,我在發言不好意思喔,司法院秘書長,我在發言我要請教您意見嗎?我剛剛有說錯嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13351.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13369.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那不就是你坐在旁邊的廳長講出來的話嗎?你剛剛提到的就是說我們輸了對不起我還在發言可以請你不要插嘴嗎?黃委員那個因為你問問號的時候對方會以為你要問他所以當你的語句是問句的時候對方就覺得他是不是要回答啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13369.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13370.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
這是我剛剛為什麼說你們在國會的殿堂裡面說制度剛上路嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13399.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13417.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
中間的準備難免有不足嗎?訴訟當事人的權益不是用這種態度在面對的這是我的立場司法院如果有不一樣的看法提出來沒有關係大家討論看人民的感受是什麼這就是我的意見所以我反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13419.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13443.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
那個黃委員對第三案跟第四案都有意義啦那其實主席這邊也跟大家做說明其實第11頁的資料裡面關於國民法官法的法輔律師的酬金部分在這個會期也詢問過事實上司法院也提高到7萬5那仍有不足的部分可能在後續年度的預算編列上請司法院可以尋求繼續加強那那個吳世耀委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13444.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13469.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
現在主席,剛剛主席已經裁示令定期處理但是我想就程序跟就實質我還是要發言一下做成記錄第一個就是說我們以往這個是上一屆國會在處理213年度所做的決議那通常在審預算大概分兩類解凍的案子分兩類第一類就是書面報告就得凍值對不對第二類才是書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13473.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13481.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
所以在那個程序上是不一樣的那我們在立法院的經驗都很久那前面這3、4、5、6、7這5個案子是屬於書面報告就得凍結所以就程序上是這樣這個我要再釐清一下當然我們剛剛也花了時間討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13490.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13509.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
那在討論事項當然就是另外的議題這是程序這是程序每一個委員會都是這樣子那第二個呢就是我可能要清楚說明一下不是對於預算的執行提出意見的委員才叫做認認真真在監督我們今天也是坐在這裡看預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13510.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13537.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
就事論事的討論所以沒有人是隨隨便便好剛華國昌委員說隨隨便便混過去誰沒有人要隨隨便便混過去請收回您的話您說新國會要持續把關OK我們就在持續把關所以沒有人不持續把關也請收回您的話然後呢您說司法院提供的報告在您看來都是形容詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13539.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13561.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
那就我的觀點就以現在的這個案子來講如何針對中央政府總預算案的第四款第一項所做成的第四項決議如何讓這個國民法官法上路之後的簡便雙方他的不均衡不對等的狀況可以解除好那司法院現在有幾個solution |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13562.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13588.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
第一個就是要穩定提供被告刑事辯護的援助的辯護來源這是第一個做法第二個做法也要去提高基金會法服這個法服基金會律師承接國民法官案件的意願這是第二個做法第三個做法當然這個做法裡頭還有我們一直在要求的要去提升他的那個payment對不對第三個是有關我們要如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13589.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13607.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
來讓他做得更好就是提高義務辯護律師承接國民法官的案件力那個意願這個是第三個approach第四個approach就是後續我們真的要努力去增設含約聘辯護人的這個政策如何改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13607.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13609.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
這是他們努力在書面報告裡頭來答覆立法院的關切。 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13631.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13658.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
所以我認為他們是有在認真在回覆這個意見滿不滿意是委員個人的見解但是請不要把誣蔑了其他的立委沒有認真在審預算也不要誣蔑了司法院的院方好像人家都在失位速餐失位速餐的人應當是每次開會簽到就走的那種人不表決不開會的那種人才叫做薪水小偷所以我是要替司法院講講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13659.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13660.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
請把程序搞清楚再來謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13676.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13702.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
好 那麼剛剛已經宣告第三案跟第四案均另定期繼續處理 來 那個 羅委員我也贊成主席說另定期來處理但是我覺得還是要稍微說明一下因為其實剛剛黃國昌跟我這邊談到我們其實針對他的那個第三案第三案我必須說啦 真的那個報告內容是太過粗略啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13703.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13730.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
實際上也有點文不對題那剛剛講說充滿形容詞不夠具體其實主要講的是第三案那第四案我是沒有表示意見但是第四案到底這個做得好不好這本來就是我們立法委員可以來去一起來討論的地方所以我覺得問題就是很簡單那只是有一個關鍵點說我也提醒一下司法院剛剛吳世耀委員說得很好嘛就是有書面報告就得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13732.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13748.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
程序啦但是司法院也不能用這樣的一個標準來自我看待啊那說真的那當初我們的前一屆的國會那最後做出這個所謂的凍結的這個決定那你只要打個書面報告書面報告就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13749.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13772.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
我以為可以打三個字請解凍那是不是也是書面報告不是這麼一回事嘛我要講第一個第三案其實差不多啦很空洞嘛那第四案當然他有講很多具體的數字或具體的改進作用這我承認啦所以因此我第四案我也沒表示意見嘛但至少第三案的部分我不認為說對他說是他太過抽象 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13773.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13798.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
這報告沒有針對當時解凍的原因來做具體實質的一個說明這一點我倒是覺得我認同黃國昌講的啊所以因此當然這個都是總而言之主席已經做了說令時來處理的話這一點我覺得我接受了所以以上好謝謝來莊委員那我請教一下你剛剛做的裁決我尊重但是那個裁決的內容是你裁示的是所有的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13799.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13822.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
第三、第三、好啦其他的因為我們上一屆的做成的一個決議是向司法法制委員會提出書面報告這是決議的一個精神但是個別的委員要求我們司法院把事情做得更好這個其實本來應該你們的職責啦那報告事項部分還有沒有其他意見好那如果沒有的話我們就進行討論事項那個第567案 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13830.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13849.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
是不是有異議?如果沒有的話,我們就遵御被查。來,來,那個,黃委員你有意見,第幾案我們就把他...現在我們是進入到43頁嗎?欸,我看,對,第5案剛剛你不是3到7案都已經做決議了嗎?沒有沒有,3、4案而已,那5、6、7齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13851.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13852.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
所以是第43頁嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13876.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
13903.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
那43頁基本上面的核心是我們目前裁判書的系統他的缺洞非常的多常常查判決都查不到我今天在質詢的時候我也公開點出來了這個問題目前司法院或許說他們想要改善但是以實際上面運作狀況而言問題還是非常的多你們今天提這個解凍報告我今天質詢的時候我隨便就找一個例子就告訴你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
13905.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
13907.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
我們現在是進行討論事項那處理的是第一案討論上第一案43頁那請問那麼機關代表有沒有要說明請 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
13934.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
13963.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那簡單說明一下因為資訊處是建置那個系統所謂系統就是說剛才因為黃委那個我有去查過他會標注一個有一個黑色的標誌那個標誌的時候說明的狀況就是說第一個他可能是還沒有審結或者不應該公開那另外一個就是說應該上傳沒上傳那這一件剛才黃委員講的沒有錯因為他已經到最高了嘛那最高的時候高等法院的那個東西應該要截掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
13964.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
13981.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
這不然沒有道理嘛不然為什麼不然最高怎麼去去下裁定所以當初我一看的時候我們就馬上拍下來那一看的時候第一個那個案件應該結掉了這已經結掉那結掉那個不是系統上的缺失那個是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
13982.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14000.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
就是書記官或者其他一些單位他應該上傳沒有上傳可是沒有上傳的時候所有的資訊預算就卡在資訊系統所以當初就變成是一個比較怪異的現象就是行政上有人沒有做好譬如說如果有沒有做好可是資訊就是資訊沒有問題他就凍結資訊預算所以以上補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14004.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14005.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
主席宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14033.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14049.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
討論事項第一案令定期繼續處理第二案至第三案准予動之體會院、情報院會好議程所列事項均已處理完畢本次會議到此結束現在上會謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14067.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14068.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
主席 |