| IVOD_ID |
15897 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15897 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-35,36-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-09T08:31:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-09T11:05:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:33:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d5da7963983a35b0dca3bf586b49d470b3be8d109af184be4b6d16e333df53b275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：繼續審查：一、行政院函請審議「陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案」案。二、本院委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案」案。三、行政院函請審議「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。(5月8日下午及5月9日為一次會)） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:04 - 11:05:00 |
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徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案案件。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案件。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1828.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1847.273 |
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處理法律懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。七、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。八、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。九、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。10、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。11、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。12、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。13、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。14、陸海空 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1855.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1856.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1867.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1890.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
黨派立場維繫部隊紀律與官兵權益兩套法條文許多。所以我很期待我們在委員會把這個法討論好來大家能夠在委員會處理好在黨團協商已經太多太多要折衝的法案了我們希望我們這兩套法不用在那裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1891.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1893.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
草案事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1916.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1921.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
人跟人的想法不同。」我覺得這是一個非常好非常健康的現象就是我們討論這個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1922.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1923.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1953.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1971.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案案案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1975.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1980.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2005.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2011.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
為非作惡被糾纏的人進到懲戒法庭時,法官有所依據可以給予適當處罰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2021.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2035.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那邊如果進行修法的時候我們這個章節就併過去那邊改用工程法處理這樣達到昨天不管是翁小林委員或者馬委員的意見我們也不至於有空窗期否則空窗期等於是讓違惡的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2037.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2038.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
處理法草案案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2059.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2067.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。七、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2084.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2087.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有關剝奪退休期等等部分就併入那裡那過渡期我們把這個先修好來這樣好不好來馬委員這個部分我們還是有意見因為我們認為說在我們的懲罰法裡面其實它就不是非常大的案子因為你現在如果犯法 |
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2105.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2114.484 |
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他都已經在刑法或者像在司法單位其實他都已經在進行所以其實他不會不罰也不會讓那些貪贓枉法的人逍遙法外除非還沒被發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2120.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2122.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2141.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2142.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2160.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2163.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
處理法草案案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2190.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2207.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果我們把這一塊挖掉,這一塊就是有關糾談之後,退休給予相關的處理的,把它挖掉,會不會有空窗期的問題?這個是你們說明一下,那個司法院。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2211.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2222.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2240.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2265.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
將來懲戒法院在判的時候的懲罰種類還有它的行使的期間這也算是一個要件其實都是看懲罰法這一整個非常完整體系法官在試用上的時候其實是會非常的完整那我覺得在處理案件上因為法官會比較嘛哪些輕哪些重法官抱歉你講的是說這個法如果通過試用上從輕到重各樣態都可以試用 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2266.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2271.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
草案條文修正草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。七、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2294.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2297.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2318.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2333.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
對於退休人員的懲罰的種類,按照這部法律來講的話,其實能夠選的就有限,而且最有實意的就是剝奪跟減少退出給予這部分,然後最重要的這塊就沒了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2334.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2338.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2361.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2387.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我這樣聽起來有兩個層次的問題第一個層次就是說一個理想性的問題就是說是不是都應該使用這一個工程法那但是我覺得因為工程法畢竟就是剛剛這個趙偉友講他現在還沒有進來那工程法要修其實會非常久的時間所以如果說我們今天在形式上我們能夠先把這一個過去這個過去之後呢但我們可以再修法理由或者我們可以用落入條款的方式或者附帶決議怎樣都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2388.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2405.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
說如果以後工程法過了,修了什麼,那我們這邊就把它移過去。那這樣的話就可以解決剛剛講的會有空裝的問題。第二個是我覺得非常重要的,從昨天到現在一直提到說,就是可能會覺得這個減少退出期太重了。但其實在這整部法律裡面,重的東西並沒有很少。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2406.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2421.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以我覺得很重要的地方是在於他有沒有救濟嘛如果說你覺得這一個是很重但是他有一個完善的一個救濟的方式那這個就不應該是說要把這個東西這個條款拿掉的理由啦所以我覺得這蠻重要的謝謝好來馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2423.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2429.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們現在不是只有陸海空軍懲罰法我們還有陸海空軍刑法是比較重的是在陸海空軍刑法裡面所以其實我們從過去到現在我們不會因為這個部分沒有做修正或沒有把它放進去我們對於其他該懲處的沒有懲處現在大家為什麼要修這步法 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2446.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2450.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主要是因為大家覺得在領導統一上面碰到問題那碰到問題不是退出給予的剝奪而是你在在訓練過程或者在軍中領導統一發生的狀況沒有工具可以使用所以你才會修這個法今天工程法怎麼會很久我們修軍人我們陸海空軍懲罰法這個送出來到現在才多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2472.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2474.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2501.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2502.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
處理法草案案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2513.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2517.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們不是說你要讓他躲避說對他沒有任何的罰則你今天修的是懲罰法不是很重的耶所以你為什麼一定要放在這裡我覺得這樣很奇怪啊你要的是領導統一的工具嘛好 我想這個大家意見都表達很清楚我們這邊到今天好 那給省市長講我待會這邊要做收斂我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2538.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2560.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
一個人犯了錯,他責任有好幾種,陸海空軍刑法處理的是他的刑事責任,這邊處理的是行政責任,有一點點不一樣,跟委員報告,一個酒駕的人他會被法辦,吸毒被法辦,但是同樣的他也會被,因為刑事責任跟,就是有一點, |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2566.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2572.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2591.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2591.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2606.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2629.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具這個章、這一章我們就保留那我也希望國防部因為這個其實是整個體系裡面的一塊拼圖很重要那司法院跟這個法務部跟國防部這邊是不是再多溝通因為這保留的可能最後會到黨團協商那邊那這挖了這一塊起來到底有什麼影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2630.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2642.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
可能你們要有一個比較清楚的說明我覺得這個是可以講道理的我們這一塊我們第18、19我們就保留接下來處理到第二來法官請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2645.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2669.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
就是那個主席這邊那個還有馬委員真的意見就是馬委這邊意見是認為說未來懲戒法院在適用懲戒種類的時候其他都可以都都可以選擇那至於剝奪跟那個減少退出給予這一塊就不定在那個懲罰法這邊而是定在工程法是這個意思嗎就是您的意思是說就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2671.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2675.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2696.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2701.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案案案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2717.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2738.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
除了剛才馬文軍委員所講的之外另外就是那個撤職撤職也是一個非常重的一個懲罰所以這個部分我們都沒有一個標準可能你們不知道你們的關懷太大不知道酒駕可以到撤職 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2740.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2749.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2759.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2787.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們把他先拿掉剩下來讓他過因為我們現在焦點在那裡嘛因為我們討論花那麼久的時間你再看一下那個文字就是說司法院是不是的意思就是說因為未來還是有糾纏的懲戒我們不知道會罰到誰啦就是說那些樣態都留著但是要剝奪退休金這比較重的事情將來是放到懲戒法裡面或者另外來處理我們把這一句先拿下來這一句拿下來當作保留但是其他的我們就照原條文通過這樣可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2790.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2814.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
撤職要留,犯了大錯當然會撤職,你不能撤職的話他要留在那裡。不是長官,是懲戒法院。我們現在講的是懲戒法院這一塊,就是把剝奪退休給予這一塊先拿掉,其餘的保留。我們可不可以做這個結論,大家看一下,然後我們接下來再處理19條好不好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2817.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2839.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個部分司法院這邊還是認為說這個剝奪跟減少退出給予這部分能夠讓懲戒法院來選擇而且這個部分是定在懲罰法這邊但是如果說國防部或者說是各位委員希望能夠讓法案能夠順利通過或者說有怎麼樣的審議的話其實本院還是就是尊重大大院的審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2840.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2842.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2858.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2860.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2880.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2884.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2905.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2907.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
他應該是一個管理辦法管理措施了我要看單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2928.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2936.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
因為既然在討論了外申訴其實可能對你說他是一個處罰的方式管理措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2937.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2938.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2960.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2976.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
外散數的取消一般是我面臨到重大演訓或是說官兵戰備的時候我可能是全部的單位我就這一個禮拜我們取消外散數或是說我的體能不合格然後我必須要加強訓練我可能就是說外散數可能暫停他不是處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2977.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2979.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3004.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3019.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
馬委員這樣好不好因為外散數並沒有在我們這個篇章裡面因為它就是一個部隊的管理這個管理因為在我們的外散數管理辦法跟作業相關規範裡面這是我們自己的相關規範它在第4點 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3023.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3049.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
違反以下事項者取消外散訴,須經主觀考核後重新審核令事情節按國軍軍風紀維護實施規定,陸海空軍懲罰法嚴懲。」所以你已經把它放在以外散訴為由,代乎職守,影響任務遂行,或者外散訴期間從事不當休閒活動如飆車、涉足不良場所等等,造成營外 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3049.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3053.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
軍風紀事件。第三、漁食反營。第四、眷屬、眷籍、地異動、引力、未主動向單位報告或謊報、偵查或屬實。因為在你的管理辦法跟作業規範裡面其實你已經把它跟我們的陸海空軍懲罰法是掛在一起而且那些樣態其實你也把它明列出來所以我們只是說你在修 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3077.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3090.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
對,不是,你在修的時候你沒有把外申訴的那個考量進去,它是屬於檢訴或禁足的部分,是有沒有?你是說要把它納進去嗎?對,你是不是要納進去? |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3092.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3095.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
處理法草案案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3124.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3125.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
處理法草案案件事項案件。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3141.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3142.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3157.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3159.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
審查：一、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3172.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3186.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
另外就是我再補充一下就是說你如果沒有把外申訴放進去那你用了懲罰法裡面的任何一個又罰他然後又把外申訴這個又不列在裡面等於說你又取消他的外申訴可能你又做了其他的懲罰的手段這樣也可能是一個如果他這個處罰方式乾脆就給他法源否則他以後就只能說我這樣被暫時暫停外申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3200.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3206.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3229.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3231.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案案案案案。二、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3263.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3272.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
好,這樣好不好,我們時間沒辦法這樣等。好,不是,那我們剛剛27條,其實26、27跟18、19是有關聯的啦。26、27、28。26、27、28。對,他有罰薪嘛,一直到25、26、27、28其實都有跟那個罰薪扣除、月支給、待遇,這個都相關。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3288.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3291.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
對照徐巧芯委員版第19條,請提案人說明。對,那個26...好,你說什麼?什麼東西啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3317.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3322.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
二、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3336.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3351.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
二十七條的部分的話我是對法新有意見因為在當時軍人選擇以保家維國為職業的時候我們應該要帶頭表示尊重他們對國家社會的奉獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3351.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3381.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那欣賞為軍人付出時間跟勞動力應該得到合理的報酬。勞基法雖然我們不是適用勞基法但是26條規範是不得預扣工資作為違約金或賠償之用那所以請大家多思考因為從軍雖然我們不是勞基法但是其實就像你我在職業上一樣是一個選項所以我會希望將勞權的精神與你納入所以我們在21條裡面我的版本裡面是用 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3381.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3408.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
法新懲罰的種類刪除,那用這個罰款的方式來做一個方法,那他還是有一個財產懲罰的種類,所以將法新改成罰款。那違紀人員受罰的時候,如果已經不是現役人員的話,那也是可以用罰款的行政手段來追溯,實務在執行上面也會比較有彈性,謝謝。好,徐委員說明,那個法律司, |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3410.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3421.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
謝謝召委謝謝徐委員徐委員剛剛講的我們都理解我也跟徐委員報告就因為罰薪像公務員也有減俸那罰薪是我們已經行之非常非常多年 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3422.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3427.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3451.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3463.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我其實是可以討論的在這邊並不是採一個非常強硬的立場但我想要詢問就是說罰薪的部分跟我們使用罰款您覺得最大的差異是會在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3465.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3467.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
刑事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3487.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3511.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
精神上我是贊成徐巧芯委員的說法就是說我處罰你他其實都在罰錢那不要叫罰薪但是我剛才聽到陳思維事長提的就是說在軍公教這個體制裡面罰縫、罰薪他是一個這個體系裡面的制度啦而且刑制多年不是只有軍人有那 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3512.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3516.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3539.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3563.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這個勞基法不能連在一起因為連在一起會有很多問題的是啦但是它就是一個程序爭議的問題那我想我在這裡做一個表達好那就是說我想可以支持院版的做法但是我還是要表達說我們雖然今天是軍人但是我們今天在立定這個懲罰法的時候還是希望吧不是要適用勞基法但是希望能夠把勞權的思維能夠帶進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3567.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3570.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3594.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3609.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
二十八條現在他就是罰款跟人事或紀律懲罰都可並為懲罰那會不會有一罪二法的事情就是說你可能被罰這樣五小時可能是要被罰五千這樣會不會來那個沈市長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3613.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3632.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
謝謝委員我跟委員報告這一次我們會把這個反向定進來就是因為我們這次的懲罰是有原先陸海空軍懲罰法他以前是針對一個行為做一個處罰我遲到十次我就處罰十次那我們現在這個是用一個概念性的就是一次性的去叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3633.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3658.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
維持行為一體性用一體性的概念去懲罰所以我們才會列這個那如果委員擔心說這個因為有的時候他行為可能很多所以說你可能給他禁足兩個禮拜然後可能給他罰款可能罰款2000元這是一個選擇那委員如果您比較擔心說第二項你如果擔心的話這個拿來我們也尊重對 因為你說10次嘛假設我前面已經10次被你罰站了 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3662.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3690.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
得與人事或紀律懲罰並好。」那你現在要怎麼修?就刪掉那一段啊。就把那一句話拿掉嘛。對啊。我也,呃,我,呃,教委,我這邊也同意馬委員的想法,因為,這個也跟我前面的有關,就是說我前面也已經同意了這個,院版的說法嘛,就是,呃,留下了那個罰刑,那在罰款的部分,在他們院版28條。來,我來出一條文,就是說,第28條我們就把後項,把它整個拿掉嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3692.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3696.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
法款得與人事或紀律懲罰並為懲罰。」二、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3712.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3739.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
違過的部分剛才幾位委員還沒有到我剛才一開始有提就是說有關違過這件事情我昨天聽起來這沒有政黨之間不同的立場反而是兩種思維的競合那本席比較傾向我們委員會還是負責任的對這個事情要做出態度就是說這個如果是黨跟黨之間不同那我贊成是保留送去黨團協商但是違過就介於是不是它是一個維持紀律的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3740.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3744.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3763.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3765.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
處理法草案案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3778.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3779.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案 案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3797.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3822.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
檢訴懲罰出定於民國19年。現在已經過了這麼多年,我們軍人還是用百年前的管教方式,那我覺得思慮未爭周延。除了限制行動自由之外,也沒有實質的教育意義,也沒有對於同袍有警惕的重用。我們可以看到的是在這個要罰就罰痛點,那你這個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3823.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3838.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
罰占、禁足、減速都是在浪費時間、浪費生命。還不如你用罰勤的方式競價回撲對止勤勤務還比較有意義。這是24、25的部分我都覺得說就是都是民國19年所訂定的那我們現在到底禁足跟減速還需不需要那我個人認為說應該要做一個改變所以提案刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3852.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3852.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
來那個法律師說明麥克風要開 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3858.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3886.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
非常謝謝委員那減速跟禁足確實還有罰站他確實是已經施行很久了那但是他對現在部隊來講他是一個非常有效的一個管理的方式簡單講減速就是軍事官的禁足禁足就是針對士兵那尤其士兵他們都他是同一件事情只是對軍事官叫減速那對兵叫做禁足那我們以去年來講抱歉你漏了一個33還有一個罰站 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3888.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3891.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3909.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3932.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
禁足案件有1,200多件,罰站案件也有172件。」就是說他是給基層部隊因為各種各樣的那種違紀的行為有的時候你給他禁足一個禮拜或是給他減速一週那可以達到懲罰的效果因為我們把這種這個拿掉了以後我們怕說對基層部隊長來講有的時候他就可能一律用罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3933.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3934.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
處理法草案案件的效果與保留,對國軍有實益及實用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3942.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3945.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3968.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3988.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
其實還蠻多的齁就是中階層的軍官拿這幾項來作為是有一點用霸凌的方式來欺負基層官兵的方式所以如果今天我們的國防部能夠在這件事情上面處理完善那我不需要去反對院版去刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3989.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4002.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
但是如果今天我們定了這三項好,我們還是維持這三項但是呢,類似這樣子軍中霸凌的事件沒有減少那我還是會堅持那直接刪除啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4004.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4023.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這兩件事情第一個是一個管理的工具因為這是在部隊管理我想我以前當兵的時候禁足對我最有效就是禁足或管束或罰陣它是一個管理工具針對違法亂紀的一個處置的方式那 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4025.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4035.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
有沒有濫用或者拿來霸凌其實我們在救濟的辦法還有我們待會要修的第二套法第二套權益法上我們其實可以強化那一塊就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4037.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4063.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們擔心菜刀會拿來亂殺人但我們不是廢掉菜刀而是我們約束他怎麼使用所以我又留有那個26條法規所以我是不是建議這樣溝通一下就是說不能每項都罰錢因為兵不是每個都去罰錢對有些人是有負擔這是一個工具的選擇在基層的部隊長官一個排長一個班長在管兵的時候他有一些選擇我們要避免他濫用我是不是建議我們同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4068.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4073.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
這33133尊重院版,那我們在他避免濫用的部分強化這一個救濟措施。來,馬委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4076.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4078.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4102.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4104.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4123.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4142.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
修假日你讓他不能回去嘛,可是其他人都還在執勤,因為我會有感受到是因為假日大家都回去了,我必須要留守,我做別人的工作,可是你今天如果說像雷達的這樣子的單位,那他沒有,他本來可以排休,假設排8天,那我被 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4145.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4151.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
被罰減訴的部分,結果大家都在工作,他就在裡面,不曉得幹嘛,就是這樣而已啊。所以我的意思是說,是不是就這個辦法,你怎麼看非奉權責長官核准不得外出營區,因為他實施的還有時間性啊。就我剛剛講的外申訴的那個部分,其實你通通把它考量進來,其實它是相關的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4174.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4179.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4199.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4202.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4224.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4227.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4250.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4252.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
處理法草案案件事件處理法案件事件處理法案件事件處理法案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4256.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4258.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4285.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4290.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案案件、軍人權益事件處理法草案案件、軍人權益事件處理法草案案件、軍人權益事件處理法草案案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4308.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4315.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那如果說有特殊情形經部隊長官同意因為其實你沒有這句他長官其實應該都還是在很重要的狀況所以我現在只是說那可以悔過那邊也加上這一句啊然後你其他的為什麼禁足跟檢護我是覺得悔過那邊加上這一句是OK啦對 但是因為你那邊沒有那一句這邊有這一句 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4331.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4350.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我跟委員報告他原則上悔過的話他就是有一個那個悔過的相關的一個辦法我們現在也沒有說悔過進去如果說要讓他提前出來的話不是因為你現在是整佈法你現在整佈法你就是你是連貫下來的那我現在不知道說為什麼你是悔過沒有73條有寫73條有寫嗎我看一下73 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4357.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4359.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那個毀過減速禁足期發展期間不予補救。 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4377.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4379.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4396.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4397.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4414.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4431.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
有的時候長官會叫他要出去買點東西替部隊服務所以他的用意其實不一定是家裡面發生什麼重大的事故下一次換那個長官所以我才建議時間刪除就是我們得到從國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4434.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4436.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4448.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4465.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
對,那我得到的訊息是這樣,我可不可以再確認一次。為公出公差跟為個人不一樣喔?抱歉,他們一定都是說我出公差,沒有人長光會跟你說,我是這樣就是怎麼樣,一定都是叫你出去做什麼事幹嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4466.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4478.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
所以我先確認,對不起我先確認,因為我們從國防部這邊詢問得到的訊息是這樣,我想這邊跟國防部確認是不是這樣的意思。那個回答非常不適當啦。你們的人來跟我們這樣講喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4483.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4485.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
修正草案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4498.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4513.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
草委、各位委員、還有今天在座的各位部會同仁,我要講一下今天裡面所有講的是以陸軍的思想為主導,在講營區。我現在舉例來講,如果你在一個基隆級的軍艦上面,你怎麼減速? |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4514.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4520.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。七、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。八、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4543.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4547.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那我們再講你依法適用那海軍怎麼用?這裏面完全沒談到 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4548.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4556.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4577.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4580.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4597.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4625.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
在二、三十年前我們危機在船上關毛鏈艙那次是酷刑啊那對官兵來講是磨練啊但是呢如果你拉了備戰緊急狀況下你所有的人都要救部位你說關緊閉的人他要不要出來他還是要出來啊他還是不能停止所以有些東西你要給一個部隊長一個彈性讓他來詮釋這個給各位做一個參考好那個陳委員提的好像33條的罰站對 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4627.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4632.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
處理法條文修正草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4644.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4647.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4668.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4670.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
條文修正草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4675.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4699.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
海軍還分艦艇跟岸基的我們空軍有分空勤、陸勤的防砲什麼都不一樣是不是我們把33133這個紀律維持的處罰工具還是要有但是你寫得太空泛變成空白授權我們擔心會被濫用所以我們變成是這個條文我們今天沒有要通過啦我意思說請國防部整理一下它變成一個授權授權要連結到請各軍種 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4702.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4720.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
要提出你們針對這個條文的處理的方式跟樣態也符合剛才鄭天才委員講的要把它明定出來這樣會不會比較好一點因為剛才鄭官委員提醒這個倒是像我空軍的我就沒有想到海軍的狀況這個其實軍種不一樣那個國防部有沒有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4724.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4745.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我想我是國防部的副部長這個我跟陳委員一樣我們都從基層當到今天這個職務當過排長、連長、營長這個剛才我們對這個陸海空軍懲罰法裡面有關這個罰站、減速、禁足我必須要跟所有委員做一個非常明確的一個說明它是一個懲罰種類的一個選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4749.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4772.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這個整個國軍當中地面部隊畢竟屬於多數可能除了海軍以外包含空軍包含空軍海軍陸戰隊陸軍、憲兵、後備絕大多數都是以地面部隊來為主的那對於這個整個一個罰站這個減速跟禁足在執行這個處分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4774.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4777.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4801.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4819.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
如果說你把這個我們跟日常生活限制的這個有關的處分給拿掉之後,我們如果給士兵,你犯錯就記過一次,我也不要處分,我也不要禁足你了。你要知道如果要記過以後,他年度的考試他不能打夾等,他不能留營,他不能續服現役, |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4820.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4841.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
他不能改成我們這個常備役啊,這對他整個軍人生涯當中會造成更嚴重的影響,那以後每個部隊當中你就申請一次好了,今天犯錯就申請一次,我就可以讓你就緝吧,是不是?你會在部隊裡面造成多少的這個問題?可是如果說這個兵犯錯了,今天這個小兵調皮搗蛋犯錯,哎,張瞻,你去那邊罰站兩個小時。 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4844.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4850.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
條文修正草案案。三、行政院函請審議:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院函請審議:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4866.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4868.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4882.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4883.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4898.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4899.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4924.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4924.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4932.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4940.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
全責長官的核准你就可以出去你出去的理由提出來的又這麼奇怪那你乾脆就不要放這一句因為你應該怎麼樣就怎麼樣你在減訴或禁足或者甚至在罰站期間他該罰就罰如果有什麼特殊的狀況你本來就可以一個長官不能做這樣的決定不可以承擔這樣子的責任嗎這個要寫在這上面嗎所以我想這樣子是比較明確的接下來換徐巧芯委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4961.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4978.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
同意我相信第一件事情要聲明的是雖然剛才兩位有說抱歉等等的但我相信當時國防部來跟我們洪聖翰委員做說明的時候他一定是有建立在一定的事實基礎上面這件事情是大家不容許否認的 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4979.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5001.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
所以我們在做這幾條的時候確實就應該要把這種其實還蠻常見的情況或許你們不常碰到但基層常碰到的情況考慮進去我講第二個我以33條為例法戰以例證行之其時間以兩小時為限聽起來很合理對不對那如果是凌晨呢我就遇過 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5002.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5016.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5029.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5037.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我們要懲罰對方,但是有什麼事情是長官也不能做的,也應該要一律驗進去呢?謝謝。我覺得這裡面有三件事情。第一個,要不要有這個管理工具,這是第一件事情。 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5046.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5048.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
二、實施方法、實施時機、不要讓時機被濫用。三、實施方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5066.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5072.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5094.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5096.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
處理法草案案 案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5114.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5119.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5131.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5158.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以我建議說我們這三個條文的工具是讓他留但是我們綁一個附帶決議你要把事情細則定出來送本委員會就是說這事情細則包含剛才陳永康委員提的這個確實是一個問題啊你這個工具海軍不能用啊海軍沒辦法用嘛所以我就說這三個工具以我們自己有限的當兵的實務上它其實是個有效管理工具但不要被濫用啦不要被濫用所以開馬委員有什麼意見來 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5160.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5169.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5187.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5188.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
處理法草案案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5205.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5221.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這個確實有時候天高地遠一個雷達在一個牌那裡那個牌長比皇帝還大欸你被我禁足之後如果刪掉這條我個人也願意支持願辦好謝謝就是說把剛才馬委員講的那個就是長官同意就可以暫時中斷這個拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5222.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5227.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案案件事項》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5238.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5259.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
但是把它明確化而不要變成小長官的濫用。」這個我們也否則一個排長可以害倒一個旅長所以這個是好意所以我再重新宣告一次有關331、33這個處罰樣態我們把它保留但是長官同意就可以中斷那一段把它拿掉文字請公安部整理一下我們附帶一個決議請再訂出各軍種 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5264.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5291.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
對應這個條文的處罰的相關的施行細則。報本委員會我最後還有一個問題喔就是說法戰那以例證刑之期時間為兩小時為限這件事情那沒有辦法去迴避掉夜間時間的理由是什麼?這個半夜執行對半夜例證就是你能夠讓他留有一個半夜半夜例證的理由是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5292.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5293.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5314.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5323.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那樣態保留,但是附帶決議,請訂出更均總施行的細則及不得為之的樣態。好,這個是30.3133,原則上照院版通過,但是加上我們剛剛修正的。好,第32條請學員說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5340.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5344.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我們這條可以同意院版,謝謝。好,我們32條照院版通過。第34條請徐委員說明,你要對應16條。 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5351.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5360.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們就是在原本的現行條文裡面等一下齁我有這個翻頁障礙症等我一下你是把懲罰種類做調整啊對對對這個是不是照願版因為他有他那個順序啦好我可以這個部分照願版謝謝許委員34條照願版通過好我們一路往下走齁到 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5380.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5382.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
70條是馬文君委員的修正動議,請馬委員說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5392.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5410.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
因為你的提案沒有那個版本,不代表刪除他,你懂我意思嗎?我們先把這走完,你如果要提案把它全部刪掉,你另外提修正案,但現在我們不收修正案,我們先把這個法完備再來處理好不好?來,馬委員就70條。好,第70條,這個跟第18條是一樣的啦,就是剝奪或減少退出給予的懲罰處分,就一起保留。那71、72是不是都一樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5418.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5425.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5446.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5450.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
徐巧芯等20人修正草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5468.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5472.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
草案案件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具草案案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5495.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5497.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
不牽涉政黨,保留去政黨協商,為沒法做科學的處分。」這裡面牽涉到就是說部隊擁有這個工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5513.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5513.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5526.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5551.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這個好不好?那徐委員認為整個要拿掉。昨天翁小林委員認為說這個就是一般的還不應該列為重大他應該認為是隨時可用那我個人是支持按照院版比較折衷啦各位有沒有其他意見沒有意見的話我想就悔過這件事情我們出席的委員來做表決至少委員會中心主義這件事情很符合委員會中心主義他既沒有正常立場在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5551.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5557.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5580.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5583.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5590.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5612.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
絕對沒有政黨立場,不要一直講政黨政黨,這個法絕對沒有政黨立場。」所以你要表決,但是你不要想因為政黨,我來講說這個點剛好是大家的思考不一樣,而且是沒有政治色彩的,我一直強調這個,因為政委員可能不了解,我們在國防委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5613.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5614.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5632.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5634.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
條文修正草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5645.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5664.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我可不可以再請國防部在在在我們如果要表決前再一次的呃陳述一次就是說你們覺得的你們心目中的悔過教育或你們預計想要實施的悔過教育包括哪一些內涵好這個很好那個沈司長或者徐副部長好第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5665.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5668.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
處理法草案案案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5690.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5695.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5711.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5721.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我再講一次表決方式、議事規則由遠而近先翁曉琳委員的主張是把他列為一般處分就可以了先表決他過了後面就不表決了 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5721.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5748.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具第2個表決是徐巧芯委員版的是應該整個就把他取消掉不應該有這個處罰的樣態一樣他表決通過了後面就不表決了第三個部分第三個部分是就回到院版表決這個意思規則沒問題吧這個是科學問題那就是多數決待會就是三個最後回到院版對那在表決前是不是先請沈市委司長進行詳細的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5752.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5755.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
有誰說明?聯一請說明聯一你的說明會決定歷史的一刻請審慎說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5764.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5781.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5792.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5802.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
會排練兩個小時的心得寫作,然後一樣在9點的時候實施完點名然後就寢。這大概是一天的課程。那至於什麼時間會啟動這個這個會關緊閉就關這個悔過呢?大概就是比如說我們講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5810.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5839.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
自願意的交酒駕就一律汰除,可是EUE我不能汰除他,EUE他酒駕之後我不能叫你退伍,那每個都去喝酒了,所以說這個EUE他犯了這個比較嚴重的錯誤的時候,那我們就會實施悔過,那悔過其實在裡面就是讓他去做一個,因為我們有教誨室,就是每一個悔過室裡面會編一個市長、副市長跟五個教誨室,那這個教誨室就是在跟他溝通觀念,除了這每天的上課之外, |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5840.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5861.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
你的教誨是在說明細一點在哪裡什麼教誨是教誨是事關的事就是人員你的教誨是事關有一個主責的人對有5個人那這5個人都是憲兵幾乎我們現在目前來講都是憲兵隊來派遣然後他們就是來負責教育他們讓他們知道說他犯了這個錯在軍中是不應該犯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5864.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5871.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案案案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5883.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5895.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
實行任務在航行過程中不能談,等靠港再來罰站不可行。五、我們沒有火鍋式設計在船上,也沒有辦法限兵上船,所以這個在船上的執行上有非常大的困難,我們沒有特別空間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5899.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5922.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
跟委員報告,目前我們全軍有9處悔過事,1235專案區、金馬棚,然後包含陸子部,然後空座部是在第5聯隊,也就是說陸海空軍都有各自的悔過事,對,他就是看他,他不可能在船上實施,那像海軍的悔過事就是在陸子部裡面, |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5923.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5924.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5943.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5947.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5966.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5982.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
沒有這一條的壞處是什麼?」我想要請你們很具體的再描述一次這件事情這個對整個部隊來講它是一個非常好的遏止他去犯錯的一個手段因為禁足或者是說緊閉 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5984.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5986.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6003.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6028.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
先送明德班,再送立德班。」那明德班、立德班大概就是在蘭嶼、綠島。那這個對之前二、三十年前的一五一的弟兄來講,他這是一個非常很好遏止他去...不是,那會變人生的噩夢,不是很好遏止嘛。對,但是至少他是一個手段。那現在如果說悔過事都拿掉了,那今天他喝酒了,他酒駕了, |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6029.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6058.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
自願役的職業太處,可是他要服一年期的義務役,那他能做什麼處分?我聽懂你的意思,但我的意思是說,比方就你,假如他喝酒,我在想的事情是說,因為我剛剛為什麼第一個要想問,那他的悔過教育是什麼?就是說,如果你的悔過教育是可以精準的去處理他真的那個犯的錯,對他犯的錯有所精準的校正, |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6059.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6059.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6076.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6091.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
這個事情就會讓我會一直有點在想說在補充給他這樣子的內容對於我們想要去處理他的那個犯錯的那個部分有沒有實質的對應關係我現在腦中卡的我現在腦中在想的會是這件事情那個徐巧芯委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6097.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6098.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
草案案案件。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6117.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6145.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
但是剛才聽起來我覺得相對於就是說您剛的說明相對於我們在29條看到的是更嚴重的懲罰這是我要描述的第一點第二點呢您剛講到了因為要規範義務役的問題可是問題是志願役也會被納進去啊那志願役也被納進去的情況底下我還是一樣我很擔心悔過變成霸凌的問題不好意思召委再給我一點時間講第三點 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6147.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6162.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
第三點是毀過懲罰向來就有限制人身自由的憲法爭議那在你再加上剛才講到的有兩點我覺得簡直莫名其妙就是體制能的教育跟心得寫作 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6164.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6188.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這兩點現在聽起來沒有問題但是實際上我們接到非常多的來自於霸凌甚至有輕生的有輕生智商案的都是在他要求你體適能不斷跑不斷的抄你的體能然後跟叫你心得協作甚至指示你寫出一些讓你自身尊嚴受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6189.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6202.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
打壓的內容之後他受不了的。」所以我覺得悔過如果今天是一個不限制人身自由然後呢合理的一個軍紀跟軍法的簡單教育我可以認同但是以剛剛來說的說明來說的話我覺得顯然比上面的29條來得更加嚴重謝謝好我們現在處理表決但是我強調不管表決結果是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6215.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6217.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6235.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6235.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6257.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6264.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。七、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6288.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6306.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
處理法草案案案件。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案件。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案件。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案件。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案件。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案件。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6320.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6321.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那這樣會整個移除掉喔沒有我再強調一次這是由遠而近的表決喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6331.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6334.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
由遠而近的表決,任何一案簽過後面就不表決。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6353.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6357.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我特別跟委員再次先這個報告,國防部對於毀過這個處分是堅持要保留。報告完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6381.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6385.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6409.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6410.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6440.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6450.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6469.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6473.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
草案案件事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6475.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6481.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6503.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6504.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6519.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6542.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
剛剛我一直都在聆聽因為我必須老實說像我身為一名女性我其實是沒有當過兵但是過去我們的生活經驗當中確實對於軍中的紀律如何來執行其實大家都會有一些疑慮因為畢竟我們今天講的是懲罰法一定表示是有一些不法的行徑在裡面所以要用懲罰法今天我們表決支持院版的原因是因為因為我自己家裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6543.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6550.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我弟弟就是職業軍人所以我也知道他身為軍官他要帶兵隨著時代的進步他會有不一樣的工具必須使用所以我贊成留下這樣的政策手段或政策工具但是請你們務必在法令過了之後要給予更細緻的執行細則這個是我們同意的地方好謝謝那我希望能夠列入紀錄那個陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6569.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6589.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們原則上已經通過的部分就照案通過那修正的部分照修正後請整理文字我們現在保留的部分保留協商的部分我把它宣告完保留的部分是有關退休給予剝奪是不是要放在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6591.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6613.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
還是未來跟工程法那邊這一塊。我覺得那時候討論這個是沒有結論的那其他已經有結論甚至已經有表決通過的本席也透過我們現在直播媒體在看其實難得這一次的開會是真的是委員會中心主義的展現充分的討論然後也有表決也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6615.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6633.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
論辯是非常健康的一個過程,我們是拜託各黨團回去說服自己的黨團幹部,如果我們在委員會決定,因為這個案子沒有政治衝突性,我們在委員會通過的條文跟內容是不是到黨團協商的時候尊重委員會的決議,尊重委員會的決議,但是留待協商的部分我們大家可以來談。 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6634.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6634.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6645.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6671.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
有院版條文通過的以及修正條文通過的請把它彙整清楚有附帶決議的包含要求兼職兼差包含那個悔過的處理的細則請這一些請把附帶決議也把它整理出來特別我們有關兼職兼差我們的附帶決議是實行本法之前你們要齊備進來這個我們是綁在附帶決議裡面那唯一保留的部分是有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6672.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6692.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
糾纏之後那個退休給予剝奪的部分是代工程法來處理還是我們這個法要處理,我們保留黨團協商。」我這樣宣告沒有錯,好,我們先請洪聖翰委員。好,剛剛那個表決我最後我投了保留,但是我自己希望說關於剛剛大家在前面討論的悔過教育裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6692.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6694.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
條文修正草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6723.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6724.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
徐巧芯委員徐巧芯委員徐巧芯委員徐巧芯委員徐巧芯委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6742.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6765.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
各位我們現在要把附帶決議現在就在處理你現在講的那一塊了相關的附帶決議請把文字整理好然後硬妥給各位我們給你們10分鐘整理整理好給各位看一下附帶決議這些附帶決議是影響這一個懲罰法能不能完備的重要關鍵請各位待會 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6766.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6786.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們大家一起努力把它看仔細一點哪個文字不好多加什麼文字這附帶決議也是在幫助國防部讓你們透過附帶決議把這個法在實行的時候那個細則定的更合理這個是我們現在休息10分鐘後處理附帶決議然後接下來處理這個權益保障法好 我們休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6792.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6802.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6817.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6834.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
軍人權益保障法當中有關眷屬的權益……對,以前有眷屬,為什麼現在全部都把它拿掉了?這個是針對軍人的權益要去處理,以前對軍人的輔導訴受什麼,我們都還是有在做,持續的在做。這個法是新定的。這是一個新法?所以你的意思是說,它本來就放在舊的裡面?本來就是我們在處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7493.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7497.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7504.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7531.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
附帶決議二、針對陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案中有關減速、禁足及罰站等懲罰種類,請國防部依各軍種特性與實行細則中明定相關執行方式及不得為之之樣態。提案人委員王定宇、陳永康、盧美玲、陳冠廷、陳建宇、洪森翰、沈伯陽等。宣讀完畢。好,這個附帶決議各位有沒有意見?沒有意見我們照案通過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7535.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7536.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
其他還沒寫來嗎?我們這個附帶決議是剛才我們剛處理完的那照決議通過請那個副部長督導各業館這個其實執行起來我覺得是一個進步就各軍種的處罰方式因軍種而質疑這個才是對的好 那個其他的附帶決議來了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7574.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7598.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
其他決議提交本席後我們再來處理我們先移動到今天要修的第二套法案是軍人權益事件處理法草案已經宣讀過現在一樣處理的原則如果沒有提案修正沒有提新版本我們就以院版通過討論的基準以院版的順序為討論基準順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7600.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7612.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
然後在修正動議上由遠而近來進行相關討論。」我想這個權益事件處理法比較單純那我們各委員可以提供相關寶貴意見馬委員剛才那個附帶決議雖然通過我再念一次給你聽這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7619.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7625.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
針對陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案中有關減速、禁足及罰站等懲罰種類,請國防部依各軍種特性於施行細則中明定相關執行方式及不得為之樣態。」主席我再補充一點我們昨天有討論到一個堅持的部分那國防部說要列 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7641.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7642.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7662.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7678.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
討論的次序以院版的順序為基準,然後以修正動議的遠而近來進行相關的討論做聚焦。」那這個如果各位委員沒有意見的話我就採取這方式來進行聯署完再來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7689.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7692.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
兼職部分處理法草案案。五、國防部與本法施行前因完成國軍人員不得在外兼職兼拆規定之修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7710.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7729.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
並送本院外交及國防委員會備查,未來持續配合公務員服務法事實修正。二、請國防部提供現行有關非勤務上違紀行為之懲罰基準相關規定,供本院外交國防委員會參酌。這是昨天通過的,我們再附送一次。 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7732.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7752.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
有關監差職及政協委員關心的部分我們都處理在附帶決議也請國防部整理好務必照這個執行也提供給各媒體朋友然後洪森和委員的附帶決議完成了嗎?正在連署我們現在來到權益保障條文在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7766.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7778.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7796.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7819.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
他改文字,他把妥適迅速改成統合處理,其實他不會說差別不大,第一條我覺得是不是照原版通過,那個文字,妥適迅速統合處理軍人權益事件,那他把它修正是統合處理軍人權益事件,他把迅速拿掉的樣子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7822.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7827.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
處理法草案 案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案 案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7852.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7855.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
行政院函請審議第8條有徐巧芯委員版本,徐委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7874.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7878.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
全保委員要排除職業軍人退伍法律師有沒有說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7885.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7913.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
草委跟各位報告我們是覺得說排除曾經擔任過志願役的人員我們覺得可能不是那麼適切啦因為我們找的這些委員都一定是看他的專業他可能當了志願兵可能當了三年四年退伍了之後他變成一個大學多年以後變成大學教授這個例子太多了那所以說我們著重的是他的專業我們想說不要一律把曾經擔任過志願役的人員排除掉他這個委員變成是職業軍人退了他們不能用啦這一條放下去的話來那個馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7913.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7938.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
他修正的主要的目的是因為過去到現在有很多不管你任何的救濟行為大家都會認為我們是官官相護所以你現在又全部都是用這樣子的話沒有你用了很多這樣子你之前他們在前面的幾個例子其實大概就是發生這樣的情形所以你必須要避免這樣子的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7939.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7947.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7966.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7982.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
這樣好不好那個提案委員不在啦但他的用意我猜得出來就是馬委員詮釋徐委員的提案大概是意義啦但在實務上會產生兩個謬誤第一個一定比例好不好我們用那個一定比例就跟你所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7983.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7986.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8013.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8034.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
照院版通過,但是他後面因為有一個定定辦法,我們請光復你一個附帶決議,你定將來這個委員的臨聘過程,第一個必須要利益迴避,比如說我是這個單位退下來的,這個就比較精準,你不能說我空軍職業軍人,我那時候是一個士官長退,我現在考到律師了,我不行了,我們把第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8035.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8048.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
把利益迴避、原單位迴避這幾個原則把它放進去這樣可能會比較精準還有人員的比例啦因為你像有一些那非軍職人員的比例請明訂在那個細則裡面因為我們任何的都有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8052.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8054.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8081.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8102.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我們有提一個附帶決議那是針對怎麼選人這個為求公正公開的方的精神希望要比照你的附帶決議我看一下比照行政院公共工程委員會跟教育部的做法應該完善相關執法並公開於民間資訊網路我們在講軍權軍人權益你有附帶決議嗎我沒看到該送了吧我們已經送了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8114.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8118.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8128.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8152.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
第2章第8條遭怨版通過,但是我們附帶決議,請國防部幫忙擬一下,就是你們那個第幾條有說明定的事情細則,請在裡面寫清楚利益迴避、員單位迴避以及一定比例的非內部人員,把它寫在你們的細則裡面,把那個附帶決議交給本席,本席就來處理。第二個我們現在有 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8153.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8163.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
剛才還沒有處理完的附帶決議我也在這邊先一併處理有關陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案的悔過制度紅山委員有一個附帶決議請宣讀一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8166.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8194.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
附帶決議。三、針對陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案中有關悔過懲罰制度,須於相關實行辦法中納入新府課程,並參考修復式、司法精神及引用外部專業新府之員以有效導正悔過效果。提案人委員洪生翰、王定宇、陳永康、沈博洋、盧美玲、陳俊雲等。宣讀完畢。來,有沒有意見?沒意見,我們照案通過,這個是對的啦。我們把悔過加了新府,這是好事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8196.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8200.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
現在是軍人權益事件處理法,就剛才第8條有一個附帶決議我們也在這裡一併處理,請宣讀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8217.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8234.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
處理法附帶決議第一案。軍人權益事件處理法第8條訂定專任及兼任權益保障委員組成,為求公正、公開,請國防部參照行政院公共工程委員會、教育部等部會之相關做法,完善相關執法,並公開與民間資訊網路。 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8237.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8254.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
應包含建立具體臨選委員辦法及公開透明之議事規定公開委員臨聘作業程序並納入民間團體代表意見將相關名單公開與民間資訊網路體驗人委員洪森翰、沈伯陽、陳冠廷、王定宇等。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8266.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8270.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8283.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8300.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個第8條的附帶決議講的是這個組成要公開然後參照公共工程委員會交易部部會相關做法那個完善相關制法並公開於民間資訊網路也就是說你這個委員要可受公平外面人要看得到然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8302.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8329.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
你的遴選辦法、公開透明議事規定、聆訊作業納入明天的……我覺得跟剛才那個附帶決議異曲同工之妙把他講得更細而已我們剛才已經有個附帶決議了你們在訂相關細則的時候把這個納入我覺得如果作為這一個權益的委員公告這是對的啦我讓軍中有冤的人我知道去找誰嘛這個附帶決議各位有沒有意見沒有的話我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8331.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8344.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這主要是因為過去國防部會有一些資訊他們比較習慣可能放在自己的軍網所以在軍網裡面可以看得到可是外界人不一定都可以看得到所以我們才特別強調希望能夠放在民間的資訊網路這個原因是這樣這個民間資訊網路指的是什麼其實他們有外網啦就公佈在外網就好了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8351.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8352.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
相關完善相關之法並公開於國防部公開資訊網站。 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8376.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8391.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
還有外網,完善相關執法並公開於後面加上改成國防部網站。好,來我們接下來處理第10條是馬文君委員這個是政協會委員的修正案來請說明第10條第10條 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8401.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8425.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
他把合意改成審議,我也不知道,差幾年了。他本來在做的事情就叫做審議啦,合意是說這五個人一起討論,共同合意來決定,他本來這件事情的本身就是審議啦。這個我們看就原版通過啦,這個實質上差別不大啦,馬委員。那個在哪裡,第10條。 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8427.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8432.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
他把那個合意有沒有第三行的合意改成審議這張有那個政委員的提案是不是印一份給馬委員他比較好找這個有一個彙整的給馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8452.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8457.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。七、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。八、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8482.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8494.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這個部分我覺得是可以依照這個修正的文字因為要送達當事人有時候你艦艇到達的時間他這個部分可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8503.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8520.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
修正成這樣送達當事人的次日起算,這有什麼問題嗎?我跟委員報告,鄭委員可能誤會了這個是說在船上那個本來就會送達當事人那個當事人他跟他一直都在船上他也沒有別的地方可以去 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8521.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8535.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
這條本來寫的30日啊等等是說已經送達給他了然後靠崗的時候再給他一個時間所以說這個送達給當事人是就是本來就已經會送達給當事人一定的了對所以我可能政委有點誤會這個意思了 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8538.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8538.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
條文規範條文規範條文規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8555.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8562.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
航行中的船舶靠港了以後,你要另外給他起算一個時間。」所以他本來就已經收到這個部分,他是已經收到的。這樣好不好,這幾條我們一併處理,你剛才講是第幾條?第15、55、15、55、58都是送答的問題,還有62。 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8579.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8582.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8592.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8610.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
處理法復待決議。二、軍人權益事件處理法第三章附審中第15條、第22條、第23條等相關規定及日數相關規定參酌公務人員保障法,然公務人員上下班與休假時間固定,30日有足夠時間與相關人員討論、準備。然軍人經常執行暫 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8614.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8634.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
演訓出海等任務無法隨時離營或對外請求協助與公務人員休假形態窘意。請國防部奠定相關執法使應考量當事人演訓、休假、出海狀況給予足夠準備時間避免影響當事人權益。」提案人委員洪森駭、沈博洋、陳冠廷、王定宇等宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8635.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8638.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
他這個條文其實是說軍人我們一般人要準備30天但是軍人戰備演訓或者汗光你沒辦法準備這個我覺得他是請你們研議啦我覺得這個就通過讓他們去研議啦對這個很明...剛剛那個應該很明確啦就是說他的文書送達是確定他在艦艇上面是應該有的喔對就是你不能去...你不要說他...你時間算了他一收到明天就要出艇或裝備這不可以發生因為他們要預防的大概也是這個問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8666.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8692.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
審事長,政協委員的提案是關切官兵權益。你剛才的說明,我建議你們做個文字的說明給馬委員也給政協委員說,你們還樂是這樣子,而不是我們這樣口頭帶過去。雖然我們會議有留記錄,這樣比較妥適。第二個,有關洪聖翰委員的提案是好意,因為軍中的樣態確實,你軍人在漢光,你叫他去準備權益沒辦法嘛。所以你們,這個叫你們研議,他沒有說決定怎麼樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8693.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8694.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8718.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8742.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
附帶決議第3案,針對軍人權益事件處理法草案第8條有關堅認權保委員之格,應與同條第4項授權訂定之辦法中,擬具規範堅認權保委員其原服役單位等利益迴避事項及退役軍職人員堅認委員之比例限制。提案人委員王定宇、沈伯陽、盧美玲、馬文君、陳永康等。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8742.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8743.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8760.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8762.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8781.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8806.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這一條之前我在質詢跟公聽會的時候都有在說明過就是說我國有一些部分的異南或是新住民子女他們常年旅居在這個海外那因為所以因為他們的中文可能不是那麼的熟悉所以他們在軍中的時候其實會遇到很多的一些問題那我們希望說如果他遇到這個權益申訴的事件的時候我們也會很擔心說他們的語言的這個困境沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8806.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8810.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
條文修正草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8831.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8845.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
好,那我們就照沈伯陽、羅美玲委員修正動議通過好,接下來處理55案處理完了第57案是有徐巧芯版本57案這個部分差異在哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8849.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8850.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8869.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8874.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8891.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8916.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
檢訴、禁足罰刑罰站等,我們有附帶決議,請一併適用這裡。」這樣就解決徐委員關心的事情了。好,58條該處理完了,62條處理完了,69條處理完了。第5章第70條,沈伯陽委員、翁曉琳委員有提修正動議,請沈伯陽委員說明。好,這個單純就是因為他有時候會跟民事案件等等那個會有衝突啦,所以按照這個就是讓他準用法院組織法,就是當他們有這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8917.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8938.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
審判權正義的時候回歸法院組織法這樣的一個規定,想說沒有訂上去幫忙補上去而已。好,那個法律師有沒有意見?是沒有意見,我們配合。那翁曉琳委員的案子是什麼?翁曉琳...看一下好不好,是不是跟你雷同?你們有沒有看到翁曉琳的案子?那翁曉琳委員的...欸,馬委員,淡姐,翁曉琳委員的案子他不在,但我還是讓他納進好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8940.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8945.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8986.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8999.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
有關懲罰法部分主席補宣告。剛才有幾條,當然徐巧芯委員沒有提出堅持,包含軍官罰情等等這些,那因為我們剛已經宣告了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8999.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9024.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
除了有修正的照修正通過,其餘照院板通過,那另外唯一保留的是有關糾纏之後的退休籍與剝奪的部分,其他我們就照那個原則做處理。好,我再補宣告一次。那剛才條文的部分呢,20、21、22、23、24我們照院板通過,有沒有意義? |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9025.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9034.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9051.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9078.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
擬具審查報告提報院會,請問院會審議前是否需交由黨團協商?不需要。院會審議時請推派一位委員做補充說明,請推派。通常這個確實是主席要幹的事情。我是樂於推派陳永康將軍。好吧,那就由昭偉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9080.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9107.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
有保留啊,你們這個文字不要修,我待會處理,我會處理。那個,院會審議時推派召委王定宇做補充說明,大家沒有異議。第三點,我們保留有關,有關保留退休給予的部分,請議事院把條文強列,退休給予剝奪的部分強列,那個部分要交由黨團協商才對。所以剛才說不需要,這不對。我再,第三點,我重新再宣告一次, |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9112.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9112.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
這個院會審議前 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9116.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9130.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
攸關糾談後剝奪退休給予相關條文,請一聲援把他降列,交由黨團協商。其餘不須黨團協商,其餘通過條文不須黨團協商。願會審議時,請推派王定宇、趙偉做補充說明。以上各位有沒有意見?陳委員OK啦,好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9141.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9149.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
本次法案審查如有法制用字用語調整授權益事人員處理。」各位有沒有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9151.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9175.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
昨天下午跟今天為一次會那我要多講兩句話我們這一次審查這兩套法案審查的過程、討論的方式以及議決的方式本人以跟各位作為同事至少這次會我自己深感為榮我們終於完成這兩套法的修案我們現在散會大家辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9179.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9187.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
處理法律事件處理法律事件處理法律事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9197.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9199.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
判身本屆典範 判身本屆典範 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9228.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9235.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案案件事項》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9253.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9255.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
處理法草案案。 |