| IVOD_ID |
15894 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15894 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-35,36-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-08T12:59:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-08T17:58:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:58:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d35675eb71f9bc6aeef49cc6be7fea48a3be8d109af184be4b51c0815ccb4b8dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-08T13:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：繼續審查：一、行政院函請審議「陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案」案。二、本院委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案」案。三、行政院函請審議「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。(5月8日下午及5月9日為一次會)） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:59:59 - 17:58:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
2014.602 |
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報告聯席會初期委員21人以主法定人數。好,我們開會,請議事人員宣讀上次聯席會議的議事錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2025.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2052.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議．事由．中華民國113年4月24日星期三上午9時1分至10時23分地點紅樓森林一會議室出席委員黃國昌等23人、內席委員鄭天才等10人。請教委員傅坤祺、內席人員國防部部長邱國正及所屬人員、司法院行政訴訟及懲戒廳法官郭任森 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2052.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2061.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院函請審議、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2080.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2100.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
國防部部長邱國正及法律事務司司長沈世維提出報告,委員黃國昌等19人提出質詢,均由國防部部長邱國正、常務次長楊基榮、戰略規劃副司長曹定明及法律事務司司長沈世維等即席答覆。決議登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢,報告及詢討結束。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2102.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2127.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
二、委員所提口頭及書面質詢為其答覆或要求提供之資訊,請相關機關與二周內書面答覆聯席會全體委員並複製聯席會。委員另指定其縣者從其所定。三、委員鍾瑞雄、鍾嘉斌、陳培宇、陳永康、傅寬琦及沈發慧等6人所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報。四、以上事案是召開公聽會後另擇其審查。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2130.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2138.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們議事錄等待會人數倒數數了之後我們再來確定那我們現在先請議事人員宣讀討論事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2141.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2144.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
處理法草案案。」宣讀完畢。好,我們今天要進行的是主要審查。我先介紹在場委員陳永康委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2171.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2191.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們今天列席的與會官員由邱國正部長我們常務次長楊吉隆政務辦公室主任廖建新法律司司長沈世偉法律司法規嚴審處處長邱新偉請加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2203.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2221.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
資源司司長鄧克雄、資歸司人力資源處處長董少明、人事參謀次長室次長劉佩志、人事參謀次長室人事勤務處處長徐永祥、 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2224.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2250.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
行政院函請審議事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。七、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。八、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2253.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2275.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
教育部學生事務及特殊教育司專門委員鄭文堯、海洋委員會人事處副處長鄭中堅、海巡署人事室專門委員翁群遠。我們特別請這些列席官員,待會有一些條文,如果我們在國防部這邊訂了, |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2277.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2304.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
將來的懲處、懲戒是由你們的單位要執行,你們要表達意見。」那個條文如果變成是國防部的條文認定違規要懲處可是那個人可能教官在教育部的轄下可能軍官是在海巡署的轄下或在國安局你們這個條文有意見的話請你們要斟酌你們有一兩條跟這有關係等期先提醒否則我們這個法一旦定過之後短期間內不會再動它好 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2306.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2328.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
處理法草案案。五、本次聯席會繼續審查《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案及《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。各有兩個提案版本,現在請議事人員分別宣讀提案條文及修正動議。宣讀期間,在場人員如果需要可自由離席。宣讀完畢後, |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2329.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2353.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
直接在協商桌進行逐條審查。令,我們雖然有截止提案時間,如果有修正動議,我們到該所屬條文的時候,我們會一併處理。我們審查的目的是力求條文的完善,而不是為了審查而審查。所以如果有修正的動議的話,我們到條文的時候,我們再合併處理。那今天我們希望能夠把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2354.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2380.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
儘量來完成足條的審查的部分。」所以請各所屬單位機關時間先預留。好,我們現在請議事人員宣讀。陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案及部分條文修正草案行政院提案第一章總則行政院提案第一條為維護軍紀、鞏固戰力、兼顧人權保障、導正軍人之危機行為特制定本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2381.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2397.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
行政院提案刪除憲刑法第二條條文。行政院提案第二條軍人違紀行為之懲罰,除其他法律另有規定外,依本法行之。本法規定對喪失現役軍人身份者與服現役期間之行為,亦是用之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2399.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2416.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
行政院提案第三條,軍人非經彈劾不受懲戒。公務員懲戒法第24條規定與軍人之為師行為,不適用之。懲戒法院審理第一項事件,其懲戒種類及懲戒權行使期間,依本法人事懲罰及財產懲罰規定為之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2419.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2439.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
行政院提案第4條,本法用詞定義如下,依違紀行為,指軍人於服限役期間違反勤務上或勤務外紀律規範之行為。二、服役機關,指軍人服限役時所隸屬或執行勤務之機關,構部隊、學校或行政法人。三、權責機關,指對軍人有指揮監督或實施懲罰權限者。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2446.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2466.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
事、權責機關指權責長官所隸屬之機關、各部隊、學校或行政法人。五、法律專業人員指具軍法官或國防法務官資格兵衣、依法任用者。六、重大懲罰指撤職、廢職、起義、降階、忌大過、悔過或相當薪台幣20萬元以上之財產懲罰。行政院提案第5條,均有下列行為之一為勤務上違紀行為應受懲罰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2475.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2503.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
一、違背或逾越法例執行勤務。二、違反權責長官與職權範圍內下達之職務命令或服務機關管理規範。三、待與監督所屬人員執行勤務或服務機關管理規範。四、其他與執行勤務使之不當行為。軍人雖非執行勤務而有濫用軍人身份勤務權限制或與服務機關內為其他不當行為者視為勤務上違紀行為。委員徐巧芯等 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2504.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2522.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
能提案第15條,除增訂第一項第15款內容為15,待與監督管理所屬人員以致發生軍紀案件外其餘內容同憲刑法第15條條文。行政院提案第6條,軍人非執行勤務而有下列行為之一者, |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2523.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2550.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
為情務外違紀行為人因受懲罰。一、故意觸犯刑事法律。二、無故使用或持有毒品、冥幻藥、麻醉藥品或其他相類式之管制藥品。三、服用酒類或違法駕駛交通工具或無正當理由拒絕接受酒精濃度測試。四、實行性騷擾或性霸凌。五、違反服務機關或其上級機關定班之廉政倫理、政治或行政中立規範。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2551.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2570.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
六、未依法令兼職或經營商業。七、其他不合與軍人身份逐身影響與軍運或服務機關勤務運作之行為。前項第七款之行為不得為重大懲罰。行政院提案第七條,違紀行為之懲罰,以行為時本法有明文規定者為限。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2572.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2600.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
行為後本法或應適用之法令有變更者適用行為時之規定但行為後之規定有利於行為人者適用最有利行為人之規定。行政院提案第8條軍人之違紀行為非出於故意或過失者不受懲罰因過失而應受重大懲罰者以重大過失為限軍人不得因不知法令而免除本法所定懲罰責任但按其情節 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2601.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2625.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
處理法草案案的重新懲罰。行政院提案第9條。違紀行為有下列情形之一者不受懲罰。一、對於現在不法之侵犯而出於防衛自己或他人權利之行為。二、因避免自己或他人生命、身體自由、名譽或財產之檢舉為難而出於不得已之行為。三、依法令之行為。四、勤務上之正當行為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2626.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2644.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
前向第一款或第二款之行為如屬過當者的從輕或免除其懲罰。第一項第二款關於避免自己為難之規定與勤務上有特別義務者不適用之。行政院提案第10條軍人對全職長官職務範圍內下達命令有服從之義務如認為該命令違法應向全職長官表示意見。該管長官與撤回命令前軍人應服從 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2653.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2672.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
人應服從,其因此所身之責任,該管長官賦之。前項命令違反刑事法令者,除屬正當行使武力之情形外,均任無服從義務。明知該命令違反刑事法令且非屬正當行使武力之情形而任執行者應受懲罰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2676.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2695.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
行政院提案第11條違反行為時因精神障礙或其他心智缺陷,致不能辨識其行為違法或欠缺其辨識而行為之能力者不受懲罰。行為時因前向之原因致其辨識行為違法或以其辨識而行為之能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2696.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2707.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
選註減低者的從輕懲罰請兩項規定於因故意或過失致。行招任者、招致者不適用之。行政院提案第12條,辦理懲罰事件因事違紀行為情節之輕重。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2712.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2738.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
並審著下列事項。一、行為之動機目的。二、行為時所受之刺激。三、行為之手段。四、行為之生活狀況。五、行為人之品性及制式程度。六、行為對領導統一或軍際行為所生之影響。七、行為人與被害人之關係。八、行為人違反義務之程度。九、行為所生之危險或損害。十、行為後之態度。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2739.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2747.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
依本法規定重重或重新懲罰者應合與比例原則。委員徐巧芯等人提案第8條 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2753.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2768.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
辦理懲罰案件應視為失行為情節之輕重並審酌下列事項,一行為之動機目的,二行為所受之刺激,三行為之手段,四行為人之生活狀況,五行為人之品性及自視程度,六行為對統一 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2770.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2784.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
領導統一或軍事所生之影響其行為人與被害人之關係,把行為人違反義務之程度,就行為所生之危險或損害,時行為後製態度,先以軍人之違失行為有下列情形之一者,得減輕成 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2786.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2800.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
得減輕程度或免除其懲罰。一、請解輕微且情況顯可免訴。二、與未發掘前自首。為此行為涉嫌犯罪者應及檢附有關證據資料移送軍司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2802.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2821.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
檢查機關偵辦前向涉嫌犯罪者所屬部隊應同時進行行政調查,倘若調查必要相關事件應單位主官同意後的作副本存查。行政院提案第13條違禁行為之情節非屬重大且嫌可免免者的從輕或免除懲罰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2823.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2847.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
對於未經發掘之違紀行為主動向長官坦承並願受懲罰者的從輕懲罰。行政院提案第14條,懲罰處分送達後3個月內故意在為違紀行為者的從重懲罰。行政院提案第15條,依本法進行程序之人員對違紀行為人有利及不利之情形應一律注意, |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2848.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2864.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
委員徐巧芯等提案第30條除第4項修正內容為調查結果認為有施以撤職降級其大過或罰款懲罰之必要時應由主觀編接為上校以上之機關構部隊或學校召開評議會決議之認為證據不足或 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2869.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2895.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
無第15條各款違私行為者,因為不受懲罰之決議,其已遇第16條之懲罰,權失效者,因為免疫之決議,其予同現行法第30條條文。」行政院提案第16條,全者掌管任軍人之違紀行為情節重大,有影響調查及懲罰程序或勤務運作之餘者,全者機關於得與一定期間內先行停止其勤務。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2896.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2914.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
全項停止勤務期間以六個月為限,全者機關任軍人已無停止勤務之必要時,得回復其勤務。第一項停止勤務之事由未消滅,而又繼續停止勤務之必要時,全項停止勤務期間得延長一次,並以六個月為限。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2914.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2918.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
行政院提案第17條,停止勤務軍人與停止勤務期間的發給本分薪額之半數。停止勤務事由消滅後,軍人未受撤職或廢止起義之懲罰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2928.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2949.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
或未依法考核為不是服役現役而予以退伍者的申請回復勤務。除其他法律另有規定外,權責機關應許其回復勤務,並補發其停止勤務期間未發給資本奉奉額。停止勤務軍人死亡者的事情解補發停止勤務期間未發給資本奉奉薪額。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2950.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2968.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
由依法德領受撫恤經之人具領之。行政院提案第二章,懲罰種類。行政院提案第18條,軍人之懲罰種類如下,一仍是懲罰撤職、廢職起義、降階、繼過及申戒。二、財產懲罰剝奪或減少退出給予、降級、罰薪及罰款。三、紀律懲罰悔過、減速、禁足、罰勤及罰債。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2979.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2995.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
行政院提案第19條,軍人職懲罰依其身份區分如下,依軍官懲罰,撤職、降接、忌過、申戒、剝奪或減少退出及與降級,罰薪、罰款及減數。二、士官懲罰,撤職、降接、忌過、申戒、剝奪或減少退出及與降級,罰薪、罰款、悔過、減數及罰勤。三、士官懲罰,廢職起義、忌過、申戒、剝奪或減少退出及與降級,罰薪、罰款、悔過、 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3009.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3018.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
禁足、罰勤及罰占,群者長官因依違紀行為人受懲罰時,知身份合定懲罰,違紀行為人予受懲罰時,已喪失現役軍人身份者,其懲罰以撤職、降階、繼過、申屆、剝奪或減少退出給予及罰款為限。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3029.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3045.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
行政委員徐巧芯等人提案第12條軍官懲罰之種類如下一、撤職二、降級三、繼過四、罰款五、申屆六、罰勤第13條士官懲罰之種類如下一、撤職二、降級三、繼過四、罰款五、申屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3046.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3063.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
六、罰刑。第14條,士兵懲罰之種類如下,一降級,二計過,三罰款,四申戒,五罰刑。行政院提案第20條,撤職軍官、士官,撤職其軍職,並於一定期間停止任用,其期間為一年以上、五年以下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3066.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3076.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
委員徐巧芯等人提案第17條撤制軍官、士官撤除其限職外,並於一定期間不得調任主管職務,其期間為一年以上、五年以下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3078.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3101.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
行政院提案第二十一條,廢止起義志願士兵廢止原核定起義處分,並於一定期間不得志願入營,其期間為一年以上五年以下。行政院提案第二十二條,降階軍官士官依其現任官階降一階換序,並於一年內不得調任主管職務,前項違紀行為人於受懲罰時已喪失現役軍人身份者, |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3101.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3126.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
以其退伍、解除召集或除役時之官階降階換序後,重新審定其退除給予。」委員徐巧芯等提案第18條刪除,行政院提案第23條,計過分計過與計大過。計過三次視為計大過一次,在一年內累計計大過三次者,軍官、士官當然撤職,志願士官當然廢止起義,並停止任願或不得志願錄影一年。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3128.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3146.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
委員徐巧芯等人提案,第20條,季過分季過與季大過。季過三次,視為季大過一次。經公共相抵計算後,在一年內,累計季大過三次者,軍官、士官、策職、志願、士兵、備指援和,定其一致處分。行政院提案第24條,申誡以書面為之,申誡三次,視為季過一次。 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3147.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3172.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
委員徐巧芯等提案第23條,身屆與庶民為之。行政院提案第25條,過奪退出給予剝奪受懲罰人以依法審定之退出給予其以致領者並應追回之。減少退出給予減少受懲罰人以依法審定之退出給予20%至50%,其以致領者並應追回之。前兩項所定退出給予因案 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3173.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3197.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
最近一次退伍,解除召集或除役前服役年資計算,但受懲罰人本人繳,不知退府基金費用本息不在此限。」行政院提案第二十六條,降及一懲罰時限職之奉即降一級,其期間為三個月以上一年以下,其滿因重新奉即年資,為因徐巧芯等人提案第十九條, |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3198.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3218.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
降其一懲罰時限職之諷刑降一級其間為一個月以上一年以下其滿應重新諷刑年資。行政院提案第二十七條,罰薪扣除月值待遇總額10%至30%其期間為一個月以上六個月以下。委員徐巧芯等人提案第二十一條,罰款金額為新台幣五千元以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3218.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3240.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
處理法草案案。五、行政院提案第28條,罰款淨額為新台幣五千元以上、一百萬元以下,罰款得與人事或紀律懲罰並為懲罰。六、行政院提案第29條,悔過與其指定處所實施悔過教育,其期間為一日以上、十五日以下,執行期間不列記憲役期間及退伍。 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3241.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3260.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
修職年資、悔過之時事不得有禁錮、凌虐或其他非人道待於之行為。」第一項悔過時事處所教育之課程內容管理與考核管理人員之資格、權責劃分、不列記現役期間與年資之計算及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部定職委員徐巧芯等人提案第二十二條三署。 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3261.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3276.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
行政提案第30條,簡述於例假、休假或放假日時是自我反省,非奉權責長官核准不得外出營區期間為1日以上10日以下。委員徐巧芯等提案第24條,刪除。行政院提案第31條,禁足於例假 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3277.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3292.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
修假或放假日實施與軍事情務內部管理或實施紀律有關之必要教育非奉權責長官核准不得外出營區。其期間為1日以上10日以下。委員徐巧芯等提案第25條刪除。行政院提案第32條發請予立假 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3294.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3314.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
修假或放假日服刑與部隊或公益有關之勤務其期間為一日以上時日以下每日罰金時間以六小時為限。」為徐巧芯等人提案第26條,罰金與例假、修假或放假日服刑與部隊或公益有關之勤務僅舉法其期間為一日以上時日以下每日罰金時間以六小時為限。行政院提案第33條,罰債以例證 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3317.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3342.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
行之其時間以兩小時為限。」委員徐巧芯等人提案第27條三處,行政院提案第34條,懲戒案件或違紀事件於下列期間內,未細數懲戒法院或作成懲罰處分者懲戒權或懲罰權不得行使。一、重大人士懲罰及重大財產懲罰10年。二、欠款以外之人士及財產懲罰5年。三、悔過1年。 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3346.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3364.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
罰勤減訴及禁足三個月。」五、罰占一個月。委員徐巧芯等人提案第26條,懲罰權因下列期間之經過而消滅。一、撤職10年。二、降級7年。三、繼過5年。四、罰款3年。五、申戒2年。六、罰勤3個月。其餘第二項至第五項與現行法同。 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3366.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3382.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
行政院提案第35條簽條期間自為失行為或違紀行為中了時起算。行為屬不作為者自作為義務消滅時起算,但行為之結果發生在後者其結果發生時起算。懲罰因附審申訴再申訴行政訴訟或其他救濟程序經徹銷而須定為處分懲罰者。簽條期間自原懲罰處分被徹銷確定之日起起算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3387.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3397.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
行政院提案第36條,懲罰權行使時間因天災不可避免之事變或依法律規定不能開始或進行懲罰時,停止其進行。同一會期行為在刑事偵查或審判中, |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3399.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3424.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
及懲罰權不停止行使,但懲罰以其他法律關係是否成立為準據,而該法律關係在訴訟或行政救濟程序進行中者,於該法律關係確定前,權責長官得停止行使懲罰權,並通知違紀行為人,懲罰權行使期間因前兩項規定停止者自停止原因消滅或前項法律關係確定之次日起與停止前已經過之期間一併計算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3426.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3445.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
行政院提案第3章,調查程序,行政院提案第1節總則。行政院提案第37條,權責長官因權責舉發或其他情勢之所屬軍人設有違紀行為者,除法律另有規定外,應自行或指派該管軍官、士官或政風督察或與該等職務相當之人員於本章規定實施調查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3447.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3464.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
行政院提案第38條,調查人員因一本法或相關法令實施調查,不得以違背法令或其他不正方法取得證據,以違背法令或其他不正方法實施調查或取得之證據,不得作為認定違紀行為之基礎,但以違背法令或其他不正方法取得證據之情節輕微, |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3465.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3480.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
排除該證據之使用,明顯有違國防、軍事或公共利益者不在此限。」行政院提案第39條,軍人無正當理由不得規避或拒絕調查,軍人因他人設有違紀行為接受調查時不得偽造、變造、湮滅或隱匿。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3483.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3511.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
與調查該違紀行為有關之證據資料或於詢問時為虛偽或不實陳述等妨礙調查之行為。行政提案第40條,國防部及其所屬服役機關之軍人涉有違紀行為且有下列情形之一者,得由國防部自行或指定所屬服役機關實施專案調查並作成專案調查報告。一、服役機關處所內人人死亡或重大傷害。二、演習或訓練事故。三、降官違紀行為。四、其他有專案調查必要。其他第一款情形之傷者 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3512.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3524.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
或傷亡者之配偶、二親等類親屬及已永久共同生活為目的同居一家之人,得以發生後6個月內,向國防申請前項專案調查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3526.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3542.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
行政提案第41條,軍人涉有危機行為且有下列情形之意者,確認藍光德不實施調查或終止調查。一、同意危機行為已受懲戒或懲罰,經調查為首懲罰者異同。二、危機行為具以懲罰之法令經廢止或停止使用。三、懲罰權已遇第34條規定之行使期間, |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3544.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3555.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
四、涉有違紀行為人之死亡。五、匿名舉發或未具體指出行為人或事實。六、舉發事實不明且舉發人經科法通知無正當理由拒絕到場陳述其舉發事實。七、舉發事實顯不構成違紀行為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3559.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3579.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
行政提案第二節,刑事偵查之競合。行政提案第42條,國防部及其所屬服役機關軍人與非戰時設有違紀行為同時設有犯罪嫌疑時,檢察官得指揮該軍人所屬服役機構、機關或其上級機關之法律專業人員,依刑事訴訟法及相關法規偵查之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3581.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3603.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
行政院提案第43條,法律專業人員於非暫時受檢察官指揮處理下列事務。一、實施服役機關處所內之搜索、扣押、勘驗或執行具體。二、詢問告訴人、告發人、犯罪嫌疑人、證人或鑑定人。三、相助檢察官執行法院組織法第60條所定之權責。法律專業人員處理前項第一款至第二款事務時,視為刑事訴訟法第230條第一項之司法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3606.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3617.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
檢查警察官 行政院提案第44條,法律專員人員依本節規定偵查這案件終結前,任由將偵查所得證據資料移送權責長官辦理懲罰。這標示應報其檢察官同意後行之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3620.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3646.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
行政院提案第45條,法律專業人員依本決規定處理偵查案件業務之注意事項及相關事項之辦法,由國防部定之。行政院提案第三節,調查方法行政院提案第46條,調查人員得以書面、言辭或其他適當方法,通知涉有危機行為之軍人或與事件有關人員到場接受詢問。前項通知應告知下列事項,依詢問之目的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3648.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3669.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
應到之日、時及處所。」三、得否委託他人到場是不到場所所生之效果。五、實施調查之權責或撫慰機關。六、調查人員之職稱及姓名。對非現役軍人之詢問應以通知書。宰名前下應告知事項,並由調查機關主管長官簽名後與到場 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3671.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3687.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
其日24小時前送達但經受詢問人同意或有急迫情形者不受到場其日24小時前送達之限制。非因自己之違紀行為而接受第一項詢問者得以詢問完畢後10日內 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3689.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3709.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
向調查機關請求日費及旅費,但無正當理由拒絕陳述者不在此限。情商費用之資及項目、基準及其他相關事項之辦法,由國防部定之。行政院提案第47條,調查人員詢問涉有違紀行為之軍人時,應告知所涉違紀行為及違反之法令,並給予陳述意見之機會,如有陳述 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3712.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3737.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
應令就其始末連續陳述,其陳述有歷之事實者應令其指出證明之方法,調查人員任前項軍人設有其他違製行為或犯罪嫌疑時應及時告知。行政院提案第48條,受詢問人得保持緘默,無需違背自己之意識而為陳述,並得委任律師為其代理人及請求調查有歷之證據。 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3738.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3759.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
未委任律師之受詢問人表示將委任時,應即停止詢問,但經受詢問人主動請求立即詢問,或等候律師逾4小時未到場者,得進行詢問。行政院提案第49條,詢問不得以強暴、脅迫、利誘、詐欺、疲勞詢問或其他不正方法為之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3761.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3766.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
詢問非經受詢問人同意,不得與業監行之。」前項所稱業監職午後10時至例日午前8時。 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3772.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3796.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
行政院提案第50條,詢問應做成記錄,向受詢問人朗讀或另起越南,並全程連續錄音,必要時應全程連續錄影。但有急迫情況且經記名記錄者不再此現,受詢問人為聽覺聲音語言功能障礙或語言不通者,應有通譯傳譯之必要時,並得以文字詢問或另以文字陳述。 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3797.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3817.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
行政院提案第51條,調查人員基於調查事實及證據之必要的向人民或團體請求提供與案情有關之文書、資料或其他物件。行政院提案第52條,調查人員得依職權或被調查人之請求將有關文書、資料或其他物件送請專業機關購 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3819.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3837.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
法人、團體或具有專門知識經驗者鑑定或送請業務主管機關提出意見,以輸入為鑑定者必要時,得通知鑑定人到場說明。行政院提案第53條,調查人員為了解、維繫事實真相,得就必要之物件或處所實施概念。 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3838.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3856.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
實施勘驗應通知設有違紀行為之軍人及有關人員到場,但不能通知者不在此限。勘驗應自作勘驗記錄並得錄音錄影,必要時應全程錄影。行政院提案第4章懲罰程序行政院提案第1節總則行政院提案第54條懲罰應由權責長官何定之懲罰權責除上將之懲罰與中將、少將 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3863.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3871.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
重要軍職之撤職及降階懲罰有服務機關、服役機關報請總統核定外其餘人員之平時暫時懲罰權責由國防部定之。行政院提案第55條。全職長官與懲罰程序終結前應將同意違紀行為人經調查屬實之違紀行為予以合一評價。 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3887.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3916.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
行政院提案第56條,調查結果有下列情形之一者,全職長官應不予懲罰或終止懲罰程序。一、有第8條第一項、第9條第一項及第11條第一項所定不受懲罰之事由。二、有第41條第一款至第4款規定情形之一。三、證據不足或不構成違紀行為。行政院提案第二節懲罰之諮詢及專案評議會。行政院提案第57條, |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3917.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3938.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
全職長官認為有失與重大懲罰之必要時,除第58條規定應召開專案評議會之情形外,應指定適當階級或專業人員五人至九人組成懲罰諮詢會,並得指定其中一人為主席,其成員任意性別比例不得少於總人數五分之二。 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3939.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3963.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
前向諮詢會應給予違紀行為人陳述及申辯之機會,並向全者長官提出具體建議。全者長官不同意前向建議,核定懲罰時應加註理由,但從輕懲罰者不再此現。行政院提案第58條,第40條所定,得實施專案調查之情形,應由國防部執行或指定所屬機關或學校召開專案評議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3965.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3984.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
評議會評議前項專案評議會應將上將邊階或相當層級之人員擔任召集人並邀集適當階級人員、專家學者或社會公正人士7人至11人組成。第一項專案評議會委員任意性別比例不得少於總人數五分之二 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3985.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4004.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
專家學者或社會公證人士人數不得少於總人數二分之一。第1項專案評議會之決議應以委員過半數之出席委員過半數之同意行之。專案評議會委員之領選、評議方式及其他相關事項之規則由國防部定之。行政院提案第59條專案評議會認為有應受懲罰人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4009.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4016 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
會有第4、10條第二項之申請人時,應通知應受懲罰人或申請人與指定日期及處所,陳述意見。 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4018.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4042.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
第40條第一項第一款鎖定情形未經同條第二項鎖定人員申請專案調查者專案評議會必要時的通知該等人員與指定日期及處所陳述意見該等人員與專案評議程序終結前請求陳述意見其有正當理由者應與陳述意見之機會前兩項通知到場人員與陳述意見其日前 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4042.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4053.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
得向專案評議會申請認欄抄寫、複印、攝影有關資料或請求調查證據。行政院提案第60條專案評議會認第40條第一項之專案調查報告有不備之處或有前條第三項調查證據請求時,應具體說明調查方法,令原調查機關補充調查,前項補充調查以一次為限,但發生新事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4069.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4077.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
或發現新證據者不在此限行政院提案第61條專案評議會評議期間所有出席、列席及記錄人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4080.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4092.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
對於會議討論事項、會議內容及決議均應嚴守祕密,未經專案評議會同意,不得對外公開。行政院提案第62條專案評議會應將評議結論作成專案報告,送交權者機關及有關機關,並複製第59條第一項及第二項通知到場人員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4100.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4110.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
全項報告應包括下列事項,並得載入對外公開之。一、事實之認定。二、調查之方法及經過。三、認定此理由是改善意見。 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4111.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4136.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
無因受懲罰之人懲罰種類及程度。全者長官應依前項第五款規定合定懲罰。行政院提案第63條。與國防部無隸屬關係之服役機關,得依其組織特性比照或自行定地辦理本屆專案評議會相關事項之辦法。行政院提案第三節懲罰之作成。行政院提案第64條懲罰處分依由全者機關順。 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4139.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4154.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
發布送達但上將之懲罰與中將、少將、重要君子之撤職及將接懲罰由服務機關發布送達。行政院提案第67條同意違紀行為依本法懲罰後 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4156.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4175.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
負疑送懲戒。經懲戒法院為懲戒處分或不受懲戒之判決確定者,原懲罰處分失其效力。因日第34條懲戒權行使期間而受免疫之判決者,原懲罰處分不失其效力。行政院提案第68條,人事懲罰及財產懲罰至懲罰發布之次日生效。 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4179.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4194.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
懲罰處分因程序瑕疵經救濟程序撤銷另於事份處分時,如基於同一事實在為相同內容之懲罰處分,該懲罰處分數及至原懲罰處分生效之日發生效力。行政院提案第69條,財產懲罰至處分日。 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4200.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4224.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
生肖之日起五年內未經執行者,不再執行。其餘五年期間屆滿前已開始執行者,仍得繼續執行。但至五年期間屆滿之日起已逾五年尚未執行終結者,不再執行。行政院提案第70條,剝奪或減少退儲給予之懲罰處分作成後,處分機關應即通知退儲給予。 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4226.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4251.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
合定機關重新審定退出給予並複製退出給予知己機關。行政院提案第71條受懲罰人依其經濟狀況不能一次玩納罰款時,選擇長官得酌情準與免息,分期繳納。罰款未玩納前,仍具現役軍人身份者得至其月資待遇總額中扣抵至多三分之一。請向經濟狀況認定基準。 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4253.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4275.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
分級起訴及扣抵等相關事項之辦法由國防部定之。行政院提案第72條,法管受懲罰人,經處分機關定相當期間吹告,藉其未履行者得以該懲罰處分為執行名義,以送行政執行。請向執行不受陸海空軍軍官事關服役條例第51條第三項規定之限制。 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4277.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4305.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
行政院提案第73條,紀律懲罰之執行期間欲有懷孕、罹患重大疾病或准、奉准請假時應停止執行,欲有作戰、演訓或救災等特殊事故時得停止執行,前項停止執行原因消滅與情況許可時給予執行。如數懲罰人停止執行期間表現良好,權責長官得釋請檢免除執行。委員徐巧芯等人提案第33條, |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4308.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4329.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
法刑之執行期間欲有申訴、作詐、懷孕、隱患重大疾病或奉准請假因暫緩執行、欲有演訓、救災等特殊事故時的暫緩執行、傾向暫緩執行、原因消滅與勤況許可時給予執行。如被懲罰人暫緩執行期間表現良好的事請檢輕重與群職長官核定,予以減輕之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4332.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4351.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
行政院提案第74條毀過簡述建築及罰刑懲罰之執行期間逢例假、休假或放假日則不予補假。委員徐巧芯等人提案第34條罰刑懲罰之執行期間逢例假、休假或放假日則不予補假。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4352.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4380.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
行政院提案第75條回過懲罰執行前,全責機關應將回過執行之處所及起起時間以書面告知受懲罰人。五、委員徐巧芯等人提案第32條被懲罰人對懲罰處分如有不符,均得向上級申訴對撤職降級及罰款之處分,如有不符得依法提起訴願行政訴訟。本法有關文書之訟答,應依行政程序法規定辦理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4382.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4397.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
行政院提案第76條《受懲罰人對權責機關或服役機關有關懲罰之執行方法應遵守之程序或其他侵害利益之情事得與執行程序終結前, |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4399.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4417.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
處理法提起訴訟、再訴訟及行政訴訟,請向訴訟、再訴訟不停止執行,訴訟管轄機關任其理由者,應即停止執行,並撤銷或更正已為執行之行為,任其無理由者應於三日內加劇意見,以訟管轄之地方軍事法官。 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4418.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4434.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
兵役權益保障會與5日內決定之。」前項再申述決定得由地方軍事法院官兵權益保障會專任委員山仁和義行之。不適用軍人權益事件處理法第10條第一項規定。行政院提案第67條軍人之違紀行為與暫時戒嚴或動員實行階段。 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4444.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4472.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
經調查屬實且有即使懲罰之必要者全責長官得以延遲下達懲罰後竟為執行不適用第57條至第66條規定。行政院提案第78條本法施行細則由國防部定之。行政院提案第79條本法施行日期由行政院定之。現在宣讀委員之修正動議修正動議第一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4474.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4491.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
修正第四、五、六、十、十八、十九、二十五、二十八、七十、七十一、七十二條條文。修正第四條,修正第一項第六款,內容為六重大懲罰,則撤職廢職日,廢職起義降接 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4492.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4513.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
既大過、毀過或相當權額薪資5個月以上之財產懲罰,其與同行政院提案內容。五、修正第一項第四款違是其他違失行為違反已送立法院被查或國防部頒訂之法令外,其與同行政院提案。六、 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4517.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4536.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
修正第一項、第六、第七款之內容為,六、不得兼任違反社會善良風俗之職業或差事,其與其他違私行為違反以順立法院被查或國防部頒訂之法令,其與同行政院提案。第十條,修正第一項,自文自為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4537.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4539.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
軍人對權責長官職務範圍內下達之命令有服從之義務,如認為該命令違法應向權責長官表示意見,該管長官如認其命令並未違法,而以書面下達時軍人即應服從。 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4552.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4578.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
其因此所生之責任由該長官負之。前項情形該管長官非以書面下達命令者軍人得請求其以書面為之。該管長官拒絕時,視為撤回其命令。其予同行政院提案。第18條修正第一項第二款內容為二、財產懲罰降級罰薪及罰款。其予同行政院之提案內容。第19條 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4581.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4594.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
軍人之懲罰以其身份區分如下。一、軍官懲罰撤職、降階、繼過、升屆、降級、罰薪、罰款及減贖。二、士官懲罰撤職、降階、繼過、升屆、降級、罰薪、罰款、悔過、減贖及罰勤。三、士官懲罰廢職起義、繼過、升屆、降級、罰薪、罰款、悔過、禁足、罰勤及罰贊。全職長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4606.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4621.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
一、違紀行為受懲罰時之身份和定懲罰違紀行為人與受懲罰時已喪失現役軍人身份者,其懲罰以撤職、降階、繼過、申戒及罰款為限。第25條不同意徵定。第28條 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4624.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4648.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
刪除行政院提案之第二項其餘同行政院提案。第七十條不同意爭定。第七十一條受懲罰人依其經濟狀況不能一次玩納罰款時,權責長官得左傾捲羽、免席分期繳納、前項經濟狀況認定基準、分期期數等相關事項之辦法,由國防部定之。第七十二條罰款受懲罰人經處分機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4651.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4665.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
定相當期間吹告藉其未履行者,得以該處罰處分為執行名義,以送行政執行,刪除行政院提案之第二項。」提案人馬文君、黃仁、徐巧芯等委員。宣讀修正動議第二案修正第6條第二項修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4675.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4696.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
第二項修正內容為前項懲罰處分之標準有國防部定之,其與同行政院提案。第十九條征定第三項為第一項懲罰處分之標準有國防部定之,其與同行政院提案。提案人委員陳永康、鄭天才、馬文軍、黃仁等委員。現在宣讀軍人權益事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4705.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4718.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
行政院提案法律名稱《軍人權益事件處理法》,委員徐巧芯等20人提案,同行政院提案。行政院提案第一章章折,委員徐巧芯等人提案,同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4723.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4738.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
行政院提案第一條為妥適、迅速、統合、處理軍人權益之爭議事項保障軍人權益、兼顧部隊紀律並鞏固戰力、特制定本法。委員徐巧芯等人提案第一條同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4738.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4760.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
行政院提案第二條,軍人與其所屬機關、各部隊、學校行政法人或人事權責機關以下檢偵權責機關,兼關於身份、公法上財產請求、獎懲、考積及其他行政處分或管理措施之爭議,除法令另有規定外,適用本法之規定。委員徐巧芯等提案同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4765.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4790.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
行政院提案第3條軍人權益之救濟依本法所定附審申訴在申訴及行政程序行之軍人提起之申訴事件由各級主管官業務承辦單位或監察部門以下簡稱申訴管轄機關依本法處理附審及在申訴事件由地方軍事法院官兵權益保障會以下簡稱權保會依本法審議決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4792.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4806.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
第一審行政訴訟事件由高等軍事法院勤務法官以下簡稱勤務法庭依本法及行政訴訟法審理。委員徐巧芯等人提案第3條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第4條, |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4808.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4830.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
權責機關對依本法提起附審、申訴、再申訴或行政訴訟之人不得予以歧視或不公平待遇。」委員徐巧芯等提案第4條同行政院提案。行政院提案第5條申訴管轄機關、權保會及勤務法庭對依本法提起訴訟、再訴訟、附審或附審訴訟之人表示不符之範圍內,不得為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4832.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4850.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
不得為根部利益之辯根或處分。」五、委員徐巧芯等人提案。第五條,申訴管轄機關、全保會及全務法庭對依本法提取訴訟等同行政院提案的內容。行政院提案第六條,原行政處分或原管理措施之實行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4851.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4869.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
不因依本法所進行之各項程序而停止,原行政處分或原管理措施合法性顯有疑義者或其立即執行,將發生難以回復之損害且非為維護重大公共利益所必要者權保會申訴管理機關。 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4871.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4889.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
原處分機關或原措施機關與受處分或措施之人向勤務法庭提起行政訴訟前得以職權或依申請,就原行政處分或原管轄措施之全部或一部,停止執行。五、委員徐巧芯等提案同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4891.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4918.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
行政院提案第7條前條第二項停止執行之原因消滅或有其他情勢變更之情形全保會申訴管轄機關、原處分機關或原措施機關得依職權或依申請撤銷停止執行。委員徐巧芯等人提案第7條同行政院提案行政院提案第二章地方軍事法院官兵權益保障會委員徐巧芯等人提案第二章張明同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4919.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4938.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
行政院提案第8條,地方軍事法院致專任及兼任官兵權益保障委員,以下簡稱權保委員若干人,組成權保會或其分會,分組審議附審及再申訴事件,專任權保委員,由地方軍事法院之國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4939.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4962.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
法務官認知,全任權保委員,由地方軍事法院擬聘社會公證人士或學者專家認知,任期三年,年選得連任一次。前項兼任權保委員之資格擬聘、解聘及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部定之。委員徐巧芯等人提案第8條第3項內容為,兼任權保委員應排除成為志願役 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4963.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4974.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
退役人員由地方軍事法院聯聘社會公證人士或學者專家認知,任期三年,年選得年任一次,其予同行政院提案。行政院提案第9條 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4976.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4992.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
附審及再申訴事件由原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之權保會管轄。權保會受理傾向事件認為全部或一部無管轄權者因依職權遺受有關。 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4993.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5022.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
由管轄權之權保會並通知副審人或再申訴人一人分別提起訴訟副審或再申訴事件或相牽連之訴訟副審或再申訴事件權保會得依職權與送最先受理或關係最確切之權保會合併審議並得合併決定。訴權保會與管轄權有爭議時由高等軍事法院指定之。委員徐巧芯等提案第9條同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5024.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5043.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
行政院提案第10條,權保會審議複審及再申訴事件,應由專任權保委員二人及兼任權保委員三人合議決定之。委員任意性別比例不得少於五分之二,前項決定應由權保委員全數出席委員過半數之統一行之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5044.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5062.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
審議附審及再申訴事件之規則由國防部定之。」委員徐巧芯等人提案第10條同行政院提案。行政院提案第11條全法委員或書記關於附審或再申訴所涉爭議事件有下列情形之一者應自行迴避。 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5063.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5083.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
一、與提起附審或再申訴之人有配偶是親等內血親、三親等內姻親、家長、家屬或曾有此關係。二、曾參與該事件之行政調查、行政處分管理措施或申訴程序。三、姓為或成為該事件當事人之代理人、輔佐人。四、與該事件成為證人、鑑定人 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5084.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5099.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
無與該事件有法律上利害關係,權保委員或書記官有前項鎖定情形之一,因執行迴避而不迴避,或有具體事實,主任其執行詞物,有偏頗之餘者,副審人或再申訴人,得被據書狀序名理由,向權保會申請迴避。 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5102.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5130.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
前向申請應舉其原因及事實並應與適當之市民、被申請迴避之人對該申請的提出意見書。全保委員被申請迴避者與全保會就該申請事件為准許或駁回之決定前應停止審議程序,但有急迫情形仍應為必要處理。前向決定被申請迴避之全保委員不得參與。全保委員或書記官有第一項鎖定情形之一步自行迴避。 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5131.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5141.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
而未經複審人或再審數人,申請迴避者,依由該權保會依職權,命請迴避。委員徐巧芯等人提案第11條同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5143.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5166.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
行政院提案第12條,懲罰會所定所為之決定確定後,就其事件,有約束各關係機關構部隊、學校或行政法人之效力。委員徐巧芯等人提案第12條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第3章附審,第一節附審之提期。委員徐巧芯等人提案,均同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5167.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5193.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
行政院提案第13條,軍人對於權責機關對其所為涉及軍人身份變更、公法上財產請求、獎成或考積事項之行政處分,認為違反或顯然不當,致損害其權利或法律上之利益者,除法令另有規定外,得以本法提起附審。前項事件,軍人因權責機關對其依法所為申請於法定期間內因為行政處分而不作為, |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5194.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5216.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
或予以駁回認為損害其權利或法律上之利益者的提起請求該機關,應為行政處分或特定內容行政處分之附審。」前項期間,法令未定名者這權責機關受理申請之日期為2個月內。委員徐巧芯等人提案第13條同行政院提案行政院提案第14條 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5222.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5237.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
非軍人基於其原軍人身份之請求權遭受侵害時得依前條規定提起附審。軍人與死亡者其遺族基於該軍人身份所身之公法上財產請求權遭受侵害時一同。 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5238.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5256.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
委員徐巧芯等人提案第14條同行政院提案。行政院提案第15條附審之提起因致行政處分送達之次日起30日內為之,但行政處分與艦艇航行期間送達者其30日期間至艦艇返。 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5257.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5278.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
凡抵國內港口之次日起算。」一、第13條第二項規定對群者機關之不作為提起附審,應於法定期間屆滿後時得提起,但至提起申請後已逾三年則不得提起。附審提起之日以原處分機關或群保會收受附審書之日起為準。 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5280.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5301.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
因原處分機關未告知有關有管轄權之權保會或告知錯誤,致副審人未向原處分機關或有管轄權之權保會以外之機關提起副審則,以該機關收受之日,是為提起副審之日。委員徐巧芯等提案第15條同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5304.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5324.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
行政院提案第16條提起副審應據副審書在明下列事項。一、副審人姓名、出生年月日、服役單位直接或職業駐居所或服役單位之駐地身份證明文件之後。二、由法定代理人或副審代理人則其姓名、出生年月日、職業 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5325.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5342.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
住居所或事務所身份證明文件字號。三、原處分機關是附審請求事項、無附審之事實及理由。六、收受或知悉行政處分之年月日。七、訴理附審之權保會。八、證據其為文書者應添具善本或隱本。 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5343.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5371.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
就有無其他以提起或進行中之副審或救濟事件,時提起副審之年月日,副審書應由副審人及法定代理人簽名蓋章,但委任副審代理者應由副審代理人簽名蓋章,提起副審應付原行政處分書影本。依第13條第二項規定對權責機關之不作為提起副審者第一項第三款第六款所列事項,證明因為行政處分之權責機關申請之年月日, |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5372.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5387.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
附原申請書之引本及受理申請機關收受證明。委員徐巧芯等人提案第16條同行政院提案。行政院提案第17條原處分機關之認定以施行行政處分時之名義為準,但上級機關對 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5388.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5408.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
法定職權所為行政處分交由下級機關執行者,以該上級機關為原處分機關,原處分機關調整或裁撤,應以承受其業務之機關為原處分機關,依第9條第一項規定,定其副審管轄。委員徐巧芯等提案第17條同行政院提案。行政院提案第18條 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5410.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5429.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
負審人應擅具負審書,僅有原處分機關向全保會提起負審。原處分機關對於前項負審應先行重新審查原行政處分,或不作為是否合法妥適,其任負審為有理由者,得自行撤銷或變更原行政處分。 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5431.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5452.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
作成行政處分或特定內容之行政處分並通知全保會。原處分機關不依附審人之請求撤銷或變更原行政處分、作成行政處分或特定內容之行政處分者,應知收到附審書之次日起20日內附具答辯書並將必要之關係文件送於全保會。原處分機關檢卷答辯時,應將前項答辯書抄送附審人。附審人向全保會提起附審者, |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5461.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5482.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
全保會應將附審書、銀本或副本順交原處分機關一、第二項至第四項規定辦理。行政院委員徐巧芯等人提案。第十八條同行政院提案。行政院提案第十九條原處分機關為於前條第三項期間內處理者全保會得依職權或依附審人之請求 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5483.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5509.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
通知原處分機關與15日內檢訊相關卷證資料,藉其為檢訊者權保會得盡為決定。委員徐巧芯等人提案第19條,同行政院提案第20條。副審人在第15條第1項鎖定期間向原處分機關或權保會為不符原行政處分之表示則,視為已在法定期間內提起副審。權保會應依第23條規定通知補正。 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5512.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5540.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
因原處分機關未告知有管轄權之權保會或告知錯誤,致副審人勿向原處分機關或有管轄權之權保會以外之機關作不符原行政處分之表示者,視為致使向有管轄權之權保會提起副審。前項收受之機關應於10日內將該事件移送有管轄權之權保會並通知副審人。委員徐巧芯等人提案第20條同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5541.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5554.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
行政院提案第21條,副審提起後,於副審決定書送達前,副審得撤回之。副審經撤回後,不得再提起同一之副審。委員徐巧芯等人提案第21條,同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5554.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5577.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
行政院提案第22條,副審提起後副審死亡者,由其基人或其他依法即受原行政處分所涉權利或法律上利益之人承受副審程序,但已無取得副審決定之法律上利益或依其性質不得承受者,不在此限。依前項規定,承受副審者因與事實發生之日起30日內向全保會 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5578.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5598.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
檢送、寄授權利之證明文件。依第一項規定,得承受副審者,未申明承受副審,全保會於之夕得承受事由時應通知其承受副審,經通知後未申明承受副審者,而命其續刑副審。委員徐巧芯等人提案。第二十二條,同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5599.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5612.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
行政院提案第二三條,全法會認為附審書不合程序,不合法定程式,而其親信可補證者應通知附審人於20日內補證。委員徐巧芯等人提案第二三條,通行正義提案。行政院提案第二節,附審人 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5615.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5630.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
委員徐巧芯等提案。第二節,同行政院提案。行政院提案第4條,能獨立以法律行為負義務者,有負審能力。無負審能力,人應由其法定代人代為負審行為。關於負審之法定代理,依民法之規定。委員徐巧芯等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5631.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5659.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
提案第24條同行政院提案。行政院提案第25條,二人以上得對於同意原因事實之行政處分共同提起複審,並得選定其中一人之三人為代表人。為選定代表人者,全保會得現期通知其選定,見其為選定者,全保會得依職權指定之。選定代表人應以最初為複審行為時,向全保會提出文書證明。代表人經選定或指定後,仍得更換或增檢之。立項代表人之選定及前項代表人之更 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5659.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5675.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
外貨增檢非經全體副審書面通知全保會不勝效力。」委員徐巧芯等提案第25條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第26條,代表人均選定或指定後,由其代表全體副審人為副審行為,但撤回副審。 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5677.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5694.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
經全體副審人書面同意不得為之。代表人有20以上者均得單獨代表共同副審人為副審行為。代表人之代表權不因其他共同副審人死亡、喪失副審能力或法定代理變更而消滅。」委員徐巧芯等人提案第26條,同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5696.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5715.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
職院提案第27條,副審得委任、熟案法律或有專業知識之人為代理人。每一副審人委任者以不超過三人為限,並應於最初為副審代理行為時向全保會提出委任書。請向副審代理人、全保會認為不適當時得禁止之,並以書面通知副審人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5716.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5744.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
副省代理人之更換、增檢或解除,非以書面通知全保會不生效力。副省委任之解除,由副省代理人提出者自為解除意思表示之日起15日內,仍應維護副省人權利或法律上利益之必要行為。」委員徐巧芯等人提案第27條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第28條,副省代理人就其受委任之事件,得為一切副省行為,但撤回副省非受特別委任,不得為之。委員徐巧芯等人提案第28條, |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5746.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5752.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
同行政院提案。」行政院提案第29條,副省人或副省代人經全保會之許可。 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5754.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5782.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
行政提案第28條,副省代理人就其委任之事件,得為一切副省行為,但撤回副省非受特別委任不得為之。副省代理人有二人者,均得單獨代理副省人違反前項規定而為委任者,其副省代理人得單獨代理。副省代理人失實上之陳述,經到場之副省人本人即時撤銷或跟任者不勝效力。副省代理權不因副省人本人死亡、破產、喪失副省能力或法定代理變更而消滅。 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5783.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5797.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
委員徐巧芯等提案第28條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第29條,副省人或副省代理人經全保會之許可,得於其日協同輔佐人到場。全保會認為必要時,得亦得命副省人或副省代理人協同輔佐人到場。 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5797.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5820.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
前兩項輔佐人權保會認為不適當時得廢止其許可或禁止其序位輔佐。輔佐人到場所謂之陳述副審或副審代言部即時撤銷或更正者視為其所自為。委員徐巧芯等人提案第29條同行政院提案。行政院提案第3節其日期期間。委員徐巧芯等人提案第3節同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5821.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5838.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
行政院提案第30條復審應天災執行軍事勤務或其他不應規則與己之事由,致持物歷史物條之復審期間者,與其原因消滅後10日內得以書面敘名由向全保會申請回復原狀,但持物復審期間已逾一年者不得為之,申請回復原狀應同時補刑期間內應為之復審行為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5842.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5869.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
委員徐巧芯等人提案第30條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第31條,原處分機關告知副審期間有錯誤時,應由該機關與書以通知更正之,並自通知送達之次日起,算法定期間。原處分機關未告知副審期間或告知錯誤會通知更正,至受處分人持誤者,如與處分書送達之次日起一年內提起副審,是為於副審期間內所為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5870.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5890.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
委員徐巧芯等提案第31條同行政院提案。行政院提案第32條,效力情形計算法定期間應扣除其在途期間。一、副審人向全保會提起副審,且不在全保會所在地駐居或服役。二、副審人經由原處分機關向全保會提起副審,且不在原處分機關所在地駐居或服役。三、副審人應第20條第二項, |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5892.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5921.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
行行物項前兩款以外之其他機關提起複審且不在該其他機關所在地住居或服役。前項扣除在途期間辦法由國防部定之。委員徐巧芯等提案第32條同行政院提案。行政院提案第33條期間之計算處法律另有規定外依行政程序法之規定。委員徐巧芯等人提案第33條同行政院提案。行政院提案第4節複審卷宗及文書送達。委員徐巧芯 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5921.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5942.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
等人提案第4節同行政院提案。行政院提案第34條附審事件之審議記錄、筆錄、決定書及其他相關文書資料全保會應指派書記官編為卷宗並以防保存之。附審人或附審代言人得向全保會申請閱覽、抄錄、引印或涉錄卷內文書或預納費用請求賦予善本、銀本、結本。 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5943.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5971.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
重置或複製品。全法會對傾向申請或請求,除有下列情形之意者不得拒絕。一、附審事件決定擬辦之文稿。二、附審事件決定之準備或審議文件。三、為第三人之爭當權益有保密之必要。四、其他依法律或繼國防軍事或公益有保密之必要。第二項,圈內文書之閱覽、抄錄、引印或涉入全法會應指定日時、處所。第二項,之收費標準由國防部定之。委員徐巧芯等 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5972.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5994.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
提案第34條同行政院提案。行政院提案第35條,副省文書送達應住民、副省人或其代表人、副省代理人、駐居所、事務所、營業所或服役單位之助力交付郵務機關、郵付機構以副省文書郵務送達證書發送。副省文書不能為前項送達時,得由全保會派員或駐托員處分機關。 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5995.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6019.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
該管警察機關或軍事機關送達,並由執行送達人作成送達證書。附審文書不能依前項。前兩項規定送達者,得將文書寄存於送達地之鄉鎮市公所、區公所或村裡辦公室,並作送達通知書兩份,一份連貼於因受送達人駐居所、事務所或營所門手,一份置於因受送達人之信箱或其他適當之處所以為送達,由遊務人員為送達者。 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6022.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6045.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
為送達人者,得將文書寄存於附近之有無機構。前項寄存送達自寄存之日起,經10日發生效力。」委員徐巧芯等人提案第35條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第36條,附審文書之送達處前條規定外依行政程序法相關規定辦理。委員徐巧芯等人提案第36條,同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6045.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6074.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
行政院提案第5節附審審議。委員徐巧芯等人提案第5節同行政院提案。行政院提案第37條附審就書面審查決定之。權保會與必要時都通知附審或有關人員到達指定處所陳述意見並接受詢問。附審人請求陳述意見而有爭當理由者應與到達指定處所陳述意見之機會。委員徐巧芯等人提案第37條同行政院提案。行政院提案第38條權保會與必要時得以職權或附審人之申請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6075.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6103.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
通知副審人或其代表人、副審、代理人、輔佐人或及議員處分機關派員於指定處所,於指定期日到達指定處所,嚴此辯論。」為因徐巧芯等人提案第38條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第39條,嚴此辯論由資深之專任權保委員主持。程序如下。一、書記官陳述事件要旨。二、副審人或副審代理人就事件為事實上及法律上之陳述。 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6103.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6121.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
三、原處分機關就事件為事實上及法律上之陳述。四、有關機關或人員之陳述。五、副省代理人或原處分機關對他方之陳述或答辯為再答辯。六、權保會對副省人、副省代理人及原處分機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6122.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6147.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
或有關人員提出詢問,其副審人之最後陳述,前項言辭辯論未完備者得再為辯論。違規徐巧芯等人提案第39條同行政院提案。違規行政院提案第40條,全法會審議副審事件應指定書記官製作審議記錄附卷,全法委員與審議中所持與決議不同之意見的經期請求者應列入記錄,前項記錄得以錄音或錄影服務。 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6149.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6151.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
組織附審審議兼延遲辯論者應另行製作筆錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6153.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6179.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
編為前項紀錄之附件並准用民事訴訟法第212條至219條之規定。委員徐巧芯提案等人提案第40條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第41條,副審人得提出證據書類證物或其他證據方法,全保會限定於一定期間內提出者應於該期間內提出。委員徐巧芯等人提案第41條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第42條, |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6181.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6201.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
全保會得依職權或依附審之申請、命文書或其他物件之時有人提出該物件並得留置之。公務員或機關掌管之文書或其他物件,全保會得調閱之。前段情形,除有妨礙國家機密或法律令有規定外,該公務員或機關不得拒絕。委員徐巧芯等提案第42條同情政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6202.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6226.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
行政提案第43條,全保會得依職權或主託有關機關構、學校、法人、團體或具專門知識經驗者就必要之物件證據實施檢驗、勘驗或鑑定禁令人由全保會指定之。全保會依前項規定實施勘驗時應將日、時、處、所通知副審及有關人員到場。立項所需費用由全保會負擔。全保會得依禁令人之請求欲行佐給之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6227.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6236.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
全保會一第一項檢驗、勘驗或鑑定之結果,非均賦予副審人表示意見之機會,不得採為對其不利之副審決定之基礎。全保會任務實施檢驗、勘驗或鑑定之必要,而副審人願自行負擔費用,請求一第一項規定實施檢驗、勘驗或鑑定時,全保會非有正當理由,不得拒絕。一前項規定檢驗、勘驗或鑑定所得結果,據為有利於副審之決定或裁判時, |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6254.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6262.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
副審得於副審或行政訴訟確定後30日內,請求全保會償還必要之費用。」五、委員徐巧芯等提案第43條,同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6264.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6288.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
行政院提案第44條,鑑定人依前條所為之鑑定,應據鑑定書陳述意見,必要時全保會的請其到達指定處所說明。鑑定人有數人時得共同陳述意見,但意見不同時,全保會應使其分別陳述意見。鑑定所需資料在原處分機關或全保會者,全保會應告知鑑定人准其利用,但其利用之範圍及方法, |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6289.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6311.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
得憲之知、鑒定人應行鑒定得請求全保會調查證據。」委員徐巧芯等人提案第44條,同行政院提案。行政院提案第45條,副審對全保會於副審程序進行中所謂之程序上處理不符則,應併同副審決定提起行政訴訟。委員徐巧芯等人提案第45條,同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6313.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6328.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
行政院提案第6節,副審決定。委員徐巧芯等提案第6節,副審決定。行政院提案第46條,副審事件有下列各款行刑之一者,因為不受理決定,依副審書不合法定程式, |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6329.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6353.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
不能補正或經通知限其補正藉其未補正。」二、提起副審欲法定期限。三、副審人無副審能力而未由法定代理人代為副審行為經通知期限補正藉其未補正,是副審人不適格,無原行政處分已不存在,已執行而無回復原狀,可能且提起副審無實意或行政處分因其他事由而消滅, |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6354.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6381.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
第13條第2項提起之副審應作為之權者機關以為行政處分。七、對已決定或已撤回之副審事件重新提起副審。八、對不屬副審救濟範圍內之事項提起副審。九、提起副審不被其他法定要件。副審人對前項第6款之行政處分不負責,應另提起副審。第1項第8款情形如屬應提起申訴。 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6382.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6402.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6409.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6434.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
原行政處分為正當,並經給予副審人表示意見之機會者,得以副審為無理由,提起副審因欲法定期間為不受理決定,而原行政處分嫌屬違法或顯然不當者,權保會得以決定理由中並以指明之。」行政院委員徐巧芯等提案第47條同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6435.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6451.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
行政院提案第48條依第13條第一項規定提起支付審有理由者權保會應以決定撤銷原行政處分之全部或一部。委員徐巧芯等提案第48條同行政院提案行政院提案第49條依第13條第二項規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6455.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6474.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
對權責機關之不作為提起之附審有理由者,權保會應以決定指定相當期間,命應為行政處分之權責機關,述為一定之行政處分。一、第13條第二項規定對駁回之行政處分提起之附審有理由者,權保會應以決定撤銷原駁回行政處分之全部或一部。 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6475.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6503.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
並發委員處分機關面期與指定之期間內另為處分。委員徐巧芯等提案第49條,同行政院提案第50條,城堡會發現原行政處分雖屬違法或顯然不當,但其撤銷或變更與公益有重大損害,經斟酌副審人所受損害、賠償程度、防止方法及其他一切情勢,任原行政處分之撤銷或變更、嫌與公益相違備時,得駁回其副審。 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6505.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6525.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
前項情形應與決定主文中載明原行政處分違法或顯然不當。五、委員徐巧芯等提案第50條同行政院提案、行政院提案第51條簽保會為前條決定時的曾卓副審人因違法或顯然不當行政處分所受損害,與決定理由中載明有緣處分機關與副審人進行賠償協議,前項協議與國家賠償法之協議有同意之效力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6532.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6551.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
委員徐巧芯等提案第51條同行政院提案。行政院提案第52條附審之決定因與權保會收受員處分機關檢卷答辯之次日起三個月內為之,依第23條規定通知補正者至補正之次日起算,未為補正者至補正期間屆滿之次日起算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6553.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6574.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
負審人於負審決定期間內續補具理由者負審決定期間至全保會收受罪後補具理由之次日起算。負審事件不能於前項期間內決定者得予延長,並通知負審人延長以一次為限,最長不得於兩個月。負審人於延長決定期間後再補具理由者負審決定期間至全保會收受 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6575.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6594.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
不具理由之次日起算不得欲2個月。」委員徐巧芯等人提案第52條同行政院提案。行政院提案第53條。副審人死亡副審程序得予承受副審人承受副審前當然停止副審之決定以他法律關係是否成立為準據。 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6596.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6620.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
而該法律關係在訴訟或其他救濟程序進行中者與該法律關係確定前,全保會得停止複審程序之進行,並即通知複審人。一、前兩項規定停止複審程序之進行者,前兩鎖定複審決定期間,至得承受複審之人承受複審或續行複審程序之日起,重新起算。委員徐巧芯等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6620.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6648.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
提案第53條同行政院提案。行政院提案第54條附審決定書應在明下列事項。一、附審人姓名服役單位直接或職業住居所或服役單位之住地。二、由法定代理人或附審代理人則其姓名職業住居所或事務所。三、主文事實及理由其系不受理決定者則不記載事實。四、參與決定之前保委員姓名無年月日。 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6649.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6671.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
副審決定師之正本應於決定後15日內送達副審人及原處分機關。委員徐巧芯等提案第54條同行政院提案。行政院提案第55條副審人不符副審決定者得以副審決定送達之次日期2個月內向原處分機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟。但副審決定與艦艇航行期間送達者 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6676.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6697.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
其兩個月期間致潛艇房抵國內港口之次日起算,原處分機關為依第49條規定與權保會指定期間內作成行政處分者,副審人得與指定期間屆滿之次日期兩個月內竟向原處分機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟。原處分機關依第49條規定再作成之行政處分, |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6699.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6716.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
副審人仍有不符則的競向原處分機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟,其提起行政訴訟期間準用第一項規定。不符第九條第三項規定合併審議之副審決定者副審人得向該審議之權保會所在地之勤務法庭合併提起行政訴訟。 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6718.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6740.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
前四項訴訟除記過身屆及標的金額或價格在新台幣50萬元以下關於公法上財產關係之訴訟,由勤務法庭准用行政訴訟法檢疫訴訟程序審理外,應由勤務法庭准用行政訴訟法通常訴訟程序審理。委員徐巧芯等人提案第55條,同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6743.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6773.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
行政院提案第56條復審決定書應復寄,如不符決定,得以前條第一項所定兩個月內期間向原處分機關或合併審議之權保會所在地之勤務法典提起行政訴訟。前項提起行政訴訟之期間復寄錯誤時,應由權保會通知更正之,並致更正通知送達之次日期計算法定期間。權保會未依第一項規定復寄期間或復寄錯誤,而依前項規定通知更正。 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6773.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6795.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
支援提起行政訴訟之人持務行政訴訟期間,如與副審決定疏送達次日起一年內提起行政訴訟,視為於法定期間內提起。委員徐巧芯等人提案第56條同行政院提案。行政院提案第4章申訴及再申訴。委員徐巧芯等人提案同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6797.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6819.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
行政院提案第一節,申訴程序及處理。」委員徐巧芯等人提案第一節,同行政院提案。行政院提案第57條,軍人對於乘者機關所為附審事件以外之行政處分或管理措施,認為違法或不當,致影響其權益者,得依法向申訴管轄機關提起訴訟。軍人不服檢訴禁足 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6820.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6843.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
罰刑、罰戰、人事禁認或調遷之行政處分,應依前項規定提起訴訟。軍人與上司信任軍人身份後,皆獲前兩項行政處分或管理措施者,亦得依第一項規定提起訴訟。委員徐巧芯等提案第57條除第二項內容為,軍人不服罰請人事禁認或 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6844.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6872.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
簽調之行政處分,應依前項規定提起訴訟、申訴,其予同行政院提案。行政院提案第58條,申訴之提起,應予行政處分或管理措施,訟達之次日起30日內以延遲、書面或其他適當方法向申訴管轄機關提出,但行政處分或管理措施與艦艇航行期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6874.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6892.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
送達者其30日期間至艦艇反抵國內港口之次日起算。五、請向行政處分或管理措施以書面以外方式作成者經受處分或措施之人請求作成書面時,原處分機關或原措施機關不得拒絕。 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6893.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6909.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
受處分或錯失之人當場表示不符或陳述理由者,該機關應依其請求,將不符之理由自作記錄交付之。」行政院提案第58條委員徐巧芯等提案第58條同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6910.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6928.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
行政院提案第59條,申訴管轄機關對於申訴事件予以收受申訴之次日起30日內,就請求事項予以妥適之處理,必要時得延長10日,並通知申訴人藉其未處理者、申訴人得進提再申訴。申訴處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6931.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6958.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
以書面為之,因附計如不符處理者,得與第62條第二項所定20日期間內向全保會提起再申訴。以書面以外方式作成者,經申訴人請求作成書面時,申訴管轄機關不得拒絕。申訴事件之管轄機關全程劃分處理程序及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部及其他軍文並用機關定之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6959.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6962.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
委員徐巧芯等人提案第59條,同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6964.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6989.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
行政院提案第60條,申訴事件有下列情形之一者的不予處理。一、提起申訴欲第58條第1項鎖定法定期間。二、無具體知識實內容或未具真實姓名服役單位住址或其他聯絡方式。三、同意事由以提起附審申訴或行政訴訟而仍一再提起。四、非申訴管轄機關接觸申訴人以同意事由 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6990.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7012.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
各機關申訴委員徐巧芯等人提案第60條同行政院提案。行政院提案第61條應提起附審之事件,勿提起申訴者,申訴管轄機關應已有原處分機關依附審程序處理,並通知該勿提申訴之人。委員徐巧芯等人提案第61條同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7013.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7034.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
行政院提案第二節再申訴程序及處理。委員徐巧芯等提案同行政院提案。行政院提案第62條不符申訴管轄及官司申訴處理者得依本法向全保會提起再申訴。申訴人不符再申訴處理者得予申訴處理。送達之次日及二十日內向全保會提起再申訴。 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7037.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7043.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
艦艇航行期間送達者其20日期間至艦艇繁體國內港口之次日起算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7045.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7074.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
委員徐巧芯等人提案第62條同行政院提案行政院提案第63條提起再申訴應再具申訴書在您下列事項。一、再申訴人姓名、出生年月日、服役單位、職階或職業、住居所或服役單位之住地身份證明文件字號。二、由法定代理人或再申訴代理人則行姓名、出生年月日、職業、住居所或事務所身份證明文件字號。 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7074.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7099.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
三、請求事項。四、再申訴之事實及理由。五、證據。六、原行政處分或原管理措施及申訴處理送達之年月日。七、提起再申訴之年月日。再申訴書應由再申訴人及法定代理人簽名蓋章,但委任再申訴代理人者應由再申訴代理人簽名或蓋章。 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7100.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7125.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
委員徐巧芯等人提案第63條同行政院提案行政院提案第64條再申訴決定應於收受再申訴書資至日期三個月內為之必要時得延長一個月並通知再申訴人。委員徐巧芯等人提案第64條同行政院提案行政院提案第65條原處分機關、原措施機關或申訴管轄機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7127.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7148.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
對於全保會函詢之再申訴事件,應於20日內將適時理由及處理意見並附有關資料回覆全保會。前項被函詢之機關對於再申訴事件位於前項規定期間內回覆者,全保會得盡為決定。委員徐巧芯等提案第65條同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7149.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7162.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
行政院提案第66條對第57條第2項所定之簡述禁足罰刑罰站行政處分提起再申訴有理由者如該行政處分已經執行完畢權保會因為確認違法之決定權保會違權項決定時準用第51條規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7168.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7185.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
委員徐巧芯等提案第66條同行政院提案。行政院提案第67條應提起附審或申訴之事件,務向權保會提起再申訴者。權保會應通知原處分機關或申訴管轄機關依附審或申訴程序處理,並通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7186.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7211.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
該物體再申訴之人。」委員徐巧芯等人提案第67條同行政院提案。行政院提案第68條,再申訴處本屆另有規定外,準用本法附層之規定。委員徐巧芯等人提案第68條同行政院提案。行政院提案第69條,再申訴人不符再申訴決定者處原行政處分或管轄或管理措施顯 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7213.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7231.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
乃輕微之根欲外,得與再申訴決定送達之次日其一個月內向原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之請勿法庭提起行政訴訟,但再申訴決定與艦艇航行期間送達者其一個月期間至艦艇返抵國內港口之次日其算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7232.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7250.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
原處分機關或原措施機關 規定與權保會指定期間內做成行政處分或管理措施者,在申訴人得以指定期間屆滿之次日期一個月內進向原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之勤務法庭, |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7251.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7277.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
提起行政訴訟原處分機關或原措施機關一第68條準用第49條規定再作成之行政處分或管理措施再申訴人仍有不符則的競向原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟其提起行政訴訟期間準用第一項規定不符第9條第三項合併審議之再申訴決定者再申訴人得向該合併審議之權保會 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7280.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7294.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所在地之勤務法庭合併提起行政訴訟。」前四項訴訟由勤務法庭准用《行政訴訟法檢疫訴訟程序審理》。委員徐巧芯等人提案第69條同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7297.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7326.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
行政院提案第5章高等軍事法院勤務法庭委員徐巧芯等人提案第5章同行政院提案行政院提案第70條附審人及再申訴人不符全保會所為之附審或再申訴決定者以勤務法庭為行政訴訟管轄級法院第二條鎖定權益爭議事件得盡依行政訴訟法提起行政訴訟者一同勤務法庭審理前項事件除凡法另有規定外準用行政訴訟法之規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7327.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7344.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
勤務法庭之審理系者由國防部定之。委員徐巧芯等提案第70條同行政院提案。行政院提案第71條勤務法庭由軍事審判官三人合意審理之但檢疫訴訟程序,得由軍事審判官一人單獨審。 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7347.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7352.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
可有軍事審判官一人獨任審理之,前向合意審判以庭長充任審判長,無庭長或庭長有事故時,以庭園中 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7358.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7387.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
中皆高之身者從任之。」委員徐巧芯等提案第71條同行政院提案。行政院提案第72條和議庭之組織因軍事審判官迴避或其他原因至人額不足時得由地方軍事法院調充之。委員徐巧芯等提案第72條同行政院提案。行政院提案第73條行務法庭受理行政訴訟事件免。 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7388.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7417.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
增裁判費等一行政訴訟法第98條之六第一項第一款規定徵收者不再持限。五、委員徐巧芯等人提案第73條同行政院提案行政院提案第74條對勤務法庭之裁判等一行政訴訟法第三邊或第四邊規定上訴或抗告於勤務法庭所在地之高等行政法院。五、委員徐巧芯等人提案第74條同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7418.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7447.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
行政院提案第6章覆則。委員徐巧芯等人提案第6章覆則。行政院提案第75條本法規定於暫時戒嚴或動員實施階段有一部或全部暫停適用之必要者其暫停適用之範圍或地域由國防部引命令定之。前項情形本法所定期間停止進行至回復適用之次日期重新起算。委員徐巧芯等人提案第75條同行政院提案。第76條行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7449.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7477.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
受軍事教育條例第5條第1項第4款軍事養成教育且不具軍人身份之學生與基礎教育期間對於權責機關所為行政處分或管理措施不符之救濟,准用本法之規定。五、委員徐巧芯等提案第76條同行政院提案第77條本法施行前以依其他法令提起救濟而尚未終結之事件處以細於屬於行政法院之事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7479.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7505.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
訴訟程序規定審理外,應依本法所定程序終結之,但以依法定程序進行之行為,效力不受影響。」委員徐巧芯等提案第77條,同行政院提案第78條,本法施行日期由行政院定之。委員徐巧芯等提案第78條,本法施行日期由行政院定之。現在宣讀委員之修正動議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7507.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7533.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
修正動議第一案,修正第37條及第70條。第37條,甄列第四項內容為,副審人或有關人員如有不通曉國語則由通譯傳譯之,其為聽覺或語言障礙除由通譯傳譯之外,並得依其選擇以文字詢問或請其以文字陳述,其與同行政院提案。第70條,副審人 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7537.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7556.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
第70條陣列第3項內容為勤務法庭及其他法院兼審判權正義之處理,準用法院組織法之規定。原行政院提案第3項調整為第4項,其餘同行政院提案,提案人委員沈伯陽、羅美玲、林祖英等委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7558.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7578.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
修正動議第二案。修正第一條為統合處理軍人權益之爭議事件保障軍人權益兼顧部隊紀律並鞏固戰力特制定本法。第十條除第一項合議決定之修正內容為審議決定之其與同行政院提案。第十五條除第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7580.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7602.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
墨具修正為其30日期間至建庭返抵國內港口且送達當事人之次日起算,其與同行政院提案。第55條第一項墨具修正為其兩個月期間至建庭返抵國內港口且送達副省人之次日起算,其與同行政院提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7603.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7615.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
第58條除第一項默劇修正為其30日期間至艦艇防抵國內港口且送達當事人之次日起算其與同行政院提案。第62條除第二項默劇修正為其 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7620.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7645.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
日期間至艦艇返抵國內港口且送達當事人之次日起算,其與同行政院提案。第69條除第1項默劇修正為其一個月期間至艦艇返抵國內港口且送達再生數人之次日起算,其與同行政院提案。提案人委員馬文君、鄭天才、陳永康、黃仁等。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7652.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7674.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我們補充介紹我們在場委員有陳冠廷委員、沈博洋委員那因為早上我們議事錄宣讀完還沒有確認請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處沒有的話議事錄確定那我們現在進到我們的那個檯面上來處理條文在處理之前本席先宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7676.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7700.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們今天要審查的兩部法一個是行政院函請審議陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案另外還有軍人權益事件處理法草案本席徵求我們在場委員同意第一個我們當依序先處理陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案沒有提修正動議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7701.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7708.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
或者沒有提委員版本的,我們就以院版通過。如果有修正動議, |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7710.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7738.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
或者有委員提案不同版本按照議事規則我們由遠而近先處理修正動議再來處理委員的版本而處理的條目次我們以行政院版為基準這樣才能夠有次序來處理本席再宣告一次也讓還沒有到場的委員有時間趕到現場第一個我們今天要處理的是陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案還有軍人權益事件處理法草案依序處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7739.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7759.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
第一我們已經都已經宣讀完畢沒有提修正動議或者沒有委員自提版本的那除非有另外提出我們就視為通過按照原本通過那有提出修正動議或者有委員提出版本的我們就依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7761.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7780.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
以行政院版的條文為基準逐條往下審查,處理的方式由遠而近,先處理修正動議,再來處理委員提案版本,然後最後回覆到我們的行政院版本,按照這個次序處理。」那現場委員有沒有意見?沒有的話我們現在到那個現場桌上開始處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7803.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7828.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案 案 徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案 案 徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案 案 徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案 案 徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案 案 徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案 案 徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案 案 徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7832.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7847.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
沒有提委員版本的我們簡則上就是視為有共識以院版來通過我們把精力著重在我們有不同意見的地方。第二個如果有修正動議有委員提案版本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7848.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7865.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我們就以行政院版為基準逐條往下審查那按照議事規則由遠而近先處理修正動議再來處理委員提案版本最後看通過的共識版本是什麼那以這樣來做處理順序這場委員有沒有意見?來,毛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7872.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7885.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
對於有些條文其實我們沒有特別有修正的那個條文意見不過我們還是希望內容可能有一些要詢問或了解的部分可以提我沒有說不能提我是這樣子因為條文很多啦我們都已經花時間一讀都把它讀完了所以我現在是先處理我們處理的程序流程大家有共識我們待會處理會比較有效率一點我們現在要處理的是陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7902.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7912.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
還有軍人權益事件處理法草案2個案。」那我們現在處理的先後順序就按照我們這序號來處理那處理的邏輯採取這樣第一個沒有提修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7915.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7940.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
委員也沒有提版本的,或者版本跟行政院版一樣的,原則上就是按院版來通過,這是屬於有共識的部分,但是如果委員對個別條文還是有意見,場面上還是可以提出來,那不然我們再重新再念一次,又花兩個小時啦。第二個,我會集中處理在有提修正動議,或者委員自提版本的,然後以行政院版為 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7941.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7960.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
基準逐條往下審查由遠而近先處理修正動議再來處理委員提案版本最後收納起來然後國防部法律司這邊有要跟委員個別協調的競訴協調有些其實溝通一下應該就大家有共識的所以因為這個我們現在先來處理陸海空軍懲罰法的修正草案那 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7970.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7995.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
目前看起來在第4條的部分馬委員有提修正動議然後在第5條的部分是徐巧芯委員的版本的第15條就是行政院版的第5條我們就把它放在一起處理中央也剛到我們把程序先有共識我們待會走還比較順 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7997.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8009.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
容忍我再講一次我們處理的順序我們要處理兩個法一個是陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案我們先處理完這個接下來處理軍人權益事件處理法草案兩個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8010.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8033.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
如果沒有委員提修正動議,也沒有委員提不一樣的版本,也讓我們視為對行政院版有共識,那院版就照案通過。但是,如果像剛剛馬委員提的,我對這個條文雖然沒有提案,我還有意見,當場提出來就好,我就不要再重新再讀了,要不然要再一讀一次又變成兩個小時。第二個,如果有修正動議, |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8035.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8061.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
有委員個別提案,我們就以行政院版為基準逐條往下審,由遠而近先處理修正動議,修正動議完處理委員提案,然後在後看最後通過是哪個版本。我們按照這樣持續處理,各位委員有沒有意見?有沒有意見?好,那我們現在就開始先處理陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案。那如果沒有特別意見的話,我就先處理第4條,馬文君委員有提修正動議嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8063.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8066.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8086.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8091.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
罗志强委員有提修正动議,馬文君委員本來就有修正動議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8099.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8102.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8120.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8145.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以我這裡提出將這個悔過、刪除與重大懲罰的類型之外,它還是懲罰,只是它不是重大懲罰。好,這個待會我們請業務主管機關回覆,那這個翁委員的提案比較單純,他認為悔過不夠重大,他是算一般處罰而已。這個法律的見解,那個法律師有沒有意見?來,我們待會再處理馬委員的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8150.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8171.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
草委委員好,委員提那個把悔過從重大懲罰拿掉這個當然我們也尊重但我們當初考量的就是說悔過它畢竟還有一個效果就是它會有悔過期間不進入議期那對尤其對義務役的官兵某個程度還是有點影響那它放到重大懲罰裡面的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8171.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8174.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8201.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8208.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8230.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8234.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
不是我們一般講的悔過書那種悔過,它其實有點類似以前的關禁閉。因為這個條文它會連結到第29條,這個針對什麼叫重大懲罰,它必須要出於重大過失才能夠被判重大懲罰。那麼所以我認為說像關禁閉其實在軍中應該可能它就是違反簡單的軍紀等等有的時候一個處罰可能就是去關禁閉,而且現在關禁閉的場所已經改變了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8257.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8264.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
處理法草案案案件事件處理法草案案件事件處理法草案案件事件處理法草案案件事件處理法草案案件事件處理法草案案件事件處理法草案案件事件處理法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8286.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8310.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
如果按照第4條的定義連悔過或是相當……我們就先講悔過好了先專心一天一天來這樣才有次序先處理翁小林委員的提案如果這個悔過都是屬於重大懲罰的話我們一定要先看這個第6條現行的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8313.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8321.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
現行條文軍人非執行勤務而有下列行為之一者軍人非執行勤務軍人非執行勤務軍人非執行勤務軍人非執行勤務軍人非執行勤務 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8339.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8359.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
意思是說前面的第7款以外的都可以重大懲罰尤其是非執行勤務尤其是像那個我們就講大家以為會很重第6條的第1款故意觸犯刑事法例 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8361.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8387.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
刑事法律刑事法律很多非常多我就舉例子我就講原住民原住民使用祖先的土地但是因為被對登記為國有土地我們就繼續使用到現在然後我們有這種案例有這種案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8389.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8397.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
就被判竊贓刑罪刑事刑事刑事刑事刑事刑事刑事刑事刑事刑事刑事刑事刑事 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8419.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8425.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8447.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8463.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
一到六條屬於重大,不是不重大。第七條因為它是一個不特定的,就是不符合軍人身份、逐身影響軍域之服役、槍人情侮。他是特別講說第七條這種不明確的我們不要隨意的把它框進重大懲罰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8465.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8468.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。三、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8492.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8515.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
這一點的我的意見比較不一樣因為先前有處理過這個海軍的99旅的自傷案那他呢最後是選擇了自殺那他在自殺的過程就是他在整個自殺的過程當中他是他的家屬認為他受到了很嚴重的霸凌那其中的霸凌方式就包含了這個回過 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8516.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8517.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8534.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8546.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
處理法草案案。五、軍人權益事件處理法草案。六、軍人權益事件處理法草案。七、軍人權益事件處理法草案。八、軍人權益事件處理法草案。九、軍人權益事件處理法草案。十、軍人權益事件處理法草案。十、軍人權益事件處理法草案。十、軍人權益事件處理法草案。十、軍人權益事件處理法草案。十、軍人權益事件處理法草案。十、軍人權益事件處理法草案。十、軍人權益事件處理法草案。十、軍人權益事件處理法草案。十、軍人權益事 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8563.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8581.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
軍官對軍人要求他們要回過,不管是關禁閉或者是寫回過書,都要有程序。這是我的看法。陳柏楊委員,我覺得聚焦一下,應該最大的爭點是,他到底算不算是比較,因為他算重大的懲罰的話,他反而會比較難用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8583.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8606.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
如果我們現在認為說他這一個情況就是說用悔過的方式其實還是蠻嚴厲的話那就應該用比較嚴厲的程序用嚴格的程序要用嚴格的程序就應該放在重大懲罰裡面這樣講就是說我如果沒有把它列在重大懲罰這個項目裡面的話對部隊的長官要關小兵的警備比較容易比較容易啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8608.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8608.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8620.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8642.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
他這裡牽涉到他悔過期間一期不算喔他如果悔過三天他當兵要多當三天喔這第一個其實影響很大第二個這一個在軍中的悔過我們不希望是長官一時氣憤下的執行他要經過一個委員會的考量而不是當下長官對這個部下不爽抓去關緊閉喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8644.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8653.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這個部分是不是大家討論看看是把它留在重大重大就是說要啟動它要有一定的程序而不是輕易的啟動是不是翁委員可不可以接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8654.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8656.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案案件事項》案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8676.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8677.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
事件處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8697.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8716.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
設施各方面其實都越來……這個設備都改善了嘛。剛剛講的那些都是極端的案例,它只是一個執行方式,可能有濫用、誤用,但是我相信軍中的長官大概都會很注意這些問題。那麼既然如果說大家有意見的話,那我就建議乾脆就送保留協商。我們還是盡量在這邊處理啦,好不好?還有沒有其他的意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8724.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8728.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
第4條,待會我會處理馬委員的部分先處理翁委員的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8731.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8751.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
因為其實有提修正的整個加起來條文不多我們保留到最後還是我們要來處理所以我們是不是先把它討論清楚我建議昭薇我們先保留因為我後面有另外一個22條是直接刪除掉回過的所以我想在這邊會有更多的爭點那妳跟翁委員兩個是完全相反的所以我建議說先直接保留要不要我連22條一起保留因為你們是完全相反的論點我是第幾條我問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8760.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8760.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
草案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8782.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8785.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8810.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8816.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
因為我們離這個現場比較近保留到黨團協商因為我還是提醒我們兩個委員會的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8818.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8839.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
這個法將來在部隊要用我們現在義務役的藝男會越來越多了所以如果我們能夠在這邊有共識我會比較傾向在這裡有共識因為到黨團黨團的大人他們處理的太多委員會的案子到時候萬一萬一這一些有一些思考不周到的部分法在執行的時候我是覺得我們還是要謹慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8841.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8843.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8863.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8880.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
或者認為這種案子影響很大所以根本不應該讓你用所以要嘛就列重大要嘛就整個拿掉這兩個觀念不同的競合我們挪到最後你們兩位想一下但是我們在委員會還是努力處理看看因為初委員會我坦白講到黨團協商不會比我們細膩來那個林楚欣委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8886.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8887.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
處理法草案案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8901.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8909.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
作為應該它是要有一定的程序性跟它的補正性所以我不認為悔過這樣的一個所謂懲罰必須要把它移除或拿掉所以我的意見是說在這樣的所謂軍中的管理的過程中當你在實施悔過的時候它實施的程序以及後續如果說悔過不當它有沒有什麼補正程序我覺得這樣才對而不是說就是一刀切然後變成是要悔過 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8930.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8933.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8955.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8972.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我跟各位再報告一下毀過他早期士兵叫做禁閉士官叫做毀過後來在洪仲秋案之後我們就把這整個名稱就單獨叫做毀過那在此之前毀過是要關在禁閉室裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8973.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8977.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8998.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9002.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
條文修正草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9022.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9026.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9046.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9066.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這個議期的延長跟傳統以來大家對悔過的印象我們認為說原來在立草案的時候我們覺得說他還是可能用一個比較嚴謹的方式去處理會比較好所以我們原先把它放在重大的懲罰那重大的懲罰就是第一個悔過的人將來救濟的時候是直接進複審程序那第二個就是在做悔過之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9067.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9084.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9094.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9097.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
條文修正草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。七、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。八、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9122.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9123.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9149.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9164.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
法律師剛才說明,我們跟各位委員報告,第一個,已經不是像以前關起來啦,他等於是找個宿舍集中住在那裡,進行教育啊,那最主要是,當兵最怕進駕啦, |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9165.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9187.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、行政院徐巧芯 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9192.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9204.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
有整個配套的法律司的條文能夠說服大家。我還是聽各位委員的意見,那翁委員。大家可以看一下,在這個現在院版的第18條裡面,他把那個悔過是放在紀律懲罰,跟這個剛剛講的重大懲罰涉及到撤職啊,什麼這樣借過罰環啊,屬於人事懲罰跟財產懲罰,這是完全不同概念的懲罰。我想請問這個司長,就是在美國啊、德國啊、日本,他們有沒有這個所謂的悔過的制度? |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9222.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9227.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9250.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9253.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案案件事項》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9270.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9272.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9294.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9299.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
是,但是我認為說基本上還是要考慮到現在這個整體社會上面對於我們的軍紀感受到是散漫的常常發生很多意想不到的一個違反軍紀的一些亂象那如果說在現在如果說要再把悔過這個制度整個拿掉或是說把悔過當成是一個重大的懲罰還非出於重大過失還不能夠這個處以悔過 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9322.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9324.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9348.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9350.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9376.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9380.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9402.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9406.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
影響官兵權益事件處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9427.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9448.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
多花點時間討論,因為我們在暖車階段,我們希望後面車子可以開快一點。」好,接下來第4條的第二個修正案是馬文君委員的有關罰薪20萬以下跟權額薪資5個月以上這條嘛,那是不是請馬委員先提出看法,然後帶沈司長回應,那各位表達意見,來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9449.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9453.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這個部分我們在最後第6款的部分有提到在可能對於懲罰這個是財產的懲罰那當時的考量就是用士兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9467.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9468.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9482.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9484.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
二、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案案案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9505.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9505.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9525.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9542.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
非常謝謝委員的指導我跟委員報告我們當初最早寫草案的時候我們在討論的時候本來定的是50萬那個時候50萬他還有一個就是因為這些案子將來都可以去救濟50萬的話在行政法院是通常程序在以下的話是檢疫程序所以本來是定50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9542.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9564.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
後來在研討的過程當中大家覺得50萬可能還是高了一點所以說這個重大懲罰我們覺得說對一個軍人不論是軍官士官其實兵我覺得不會處到20萬當初是總要有一個標準委員您的見解我們非常的佩服但是就是我們怕將來執行上面不同的人以全額薪給的話每一個都算不同光上校1到12級吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9567.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9571.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
處理法草案案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9594.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9607.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
你的薪資給得出去那就表示算得出來那個有很困難嗎每個月都在領我們現在要講的先用這個部分的考量先交流一下意見你可以稍微保護一下主席我這邊是支持馬文君委員的版本因為我覺得你就定一個20萬以上這個相當的粗糙 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9618.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9622.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
處理法草案案 案。三、軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9637.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9638.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9654.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9679.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
來,還有沒有其他委員意見?沒有的話麻煩軍委員因為今天你這個對象還包括義務役的士兵而已的兵而已那其實他們對整個我們軍中的了解度本來就是比較不熟悉可是你對於像這些校級或者甚至將軍他們如果會犯到重大的這些為師其實已經很明顯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9681.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9683.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
條文修正草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9710.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9723.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
這兩種思維,一個就是我犯了一樣的錯,就好像我們在社會上我違了一個規違了一個法,會因為你的階級所得不同,罰金有高低嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9725.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9728.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9746.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9768.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
通常程序跟檢疫程序到行政訴訟的話當然程序上會分析到高等級。五十以上。五十都可能高了一點,所以說後來才把它降到二十。另外這個重大懲罰還有一個牽涉到的就是後面可能會有時效的問題。其實我跟各位報告,我們其實站在國防部的立場,我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9769.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9773.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9787.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9788.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
事件處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9806.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9833.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
或是說罰情這個對他們是比較有效的方式我跟委員報告他們的收入也沒有很多給他用罰款的方式我覺得這個我們將來整個弄完了以後我們都還會對我們的同仁做宣導雖然定在這邊沒有禁止他不能那樣做但是我們當初本來在罰款的上面主要也是針對志願役的軍官但是我覺得你們這樣子你們也沒有因為本法他並沒有分成義務役或者是這是對全體軍事官兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9835.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9860.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我們這個法修出來之後,那所有的義烏義一大堆義男,那他才十幾歲要準備當兵的,看到說重大懲罰要罰20萬以上,嚇都嚇死了。我們應該是鼓勵大家來當兵,然後呢我們的懲罰都是很合理的,不是拿這個東西來嚇他們啊。對,報告委員,我們沒有要嚇他們,只是說他的那個行為如果是很輕微,或許他禁足一周。 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9861.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9863.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9878.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9892.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
因為就是說在法律的設計上就是如果說我們今天要改成像剛剛講的這一個幾薪資5個月以上的話就是說我想知道國防部在處罰的時候我們會不會在處罰的時候直接去考量對方的關節 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9894.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9899.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9923.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9930.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
所以這就是為什麼一開始設計的時候這就是為什麼一開始設計的時候會講說可能到50萬我問一個技術性問題喔那個馬委員你的全薪是指所有的縫級還是整縫因為他現在20萬也是用這樣子算出來的啦我們要把它定性就是說我對這沒有定見啦我如果說要罰你罰薪5個月以上是本縫5個月還是領導加級作戰那些都要算進去這個金額差很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9953.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9965.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
其實我也沒有特別的意見因為就這個部分你既然是重大的為師的部分對因為你現在來做立法說明的時候你是以兵去計算的所以你才會算出20萬你今天如果說有重大的為師對所有的因為你的階級越高其實你應該越清楚那你犯的錯一定要犯很大的錯你才會受到這樣的處分那就這樣子你按你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9980.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9981.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10003.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10013.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10036.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10060.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我其實只是提一個我的疑問就是我們在發生這個重大的危機的事件的過程當中有沒有一個可能是他不會是一個人的作為而是如果說是不只一位以上不是不只有一位是一位以上的時候如果我們現在是用薪資五個月那會不會叫小兵扛的可能因為小兵的薪資比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10061.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10086.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那如果說就像剛剛地域委員有特別提到的是說在我們一個重大的懲罰的過程當中就像以酒駕或是我們不能接受的犯罪行為的時候他不應該是看照他的薪水然後薪資是降官所以他的錢比較多就罰得比較重因為我們很多的法規制定的過程當中他就是這個罪行就判多少年或多少的罰金這應該是有個定額在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10088.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10106.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以我只是想請問說如果我們用興奉來看的時候比如五個月那將官就會罰比較多的錢那如果他是一個集體的犯罪的時候他有沒有可能把罪通通都推給那個小兵因為小兵的興奉錢比較低我的想法是這樣那個是執行面的問題了啦那個就要通通抓起來了我們的意思就是說是不是一個定額是比較對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10109.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10120.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
你用一個月薪這樣子然後因為不一樣的人然後月薪就比較高那顯然他的罰則上面就是比較高的就是就刑期來講或你現在我們現在講的是金錢嘛那個那同樣一個罪為什麼就是有限罰的錢比較多有限罰的錢比較少還有一些執行面問題我們大概提出來那個鄭天才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10135.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10152.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我們先看這個如果按照行政院版的第19條我們先看這個輕重的順序這個輕重這個以悔過來講他前面是罰款罰款前面是罰薪以這個輕重來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10153.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10164.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那所以這個我們現在這個行政院版的這個重大懲罰毀過然後把那個罰金的部分呢是放在後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10165.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10168.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
條文修正草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10189.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10195.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10218.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10220.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
函請審查：一、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10239.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10253.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
所以你看喔,被降級其實尊嚴也受損然後我的實質利得也受損那後面有罰薪那我們現在把罰款也跟薪資綁在一起這三件事情在順序輕重比例上 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10254.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10270.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
會有一些些矛盾。」這個我們想一下好不好?對,所以我剛才說政委員來行的啦,你提這個是,是要去設法,我們一個處罰有一個次序感。今天,崔永康要處罰我,他就罰這個這個這個,他一定有個次序。可是我們現在變成,比較輕的處罰變得比較重。 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10273.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10274.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10293.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10295.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10318.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10342.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
其實我跟各位報告,其實很多罰則是經過大家討論的。就個人來講的話,這種罰則定了以後,這種做法定了以後,只有縣市幹部讓他更加考慮周延。不會像以前講的,講完一句話就關起來了。講完一句話就五天、八天,不會這樣子。所以剛剛委員給我們建議是很好的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10343.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10347.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10361.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10385.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
現在一條條法規定的都是在把幹部弄在一個局限範圍以內,不讓他個人有所偏好而變成一個造詞。這第一個。第二有關於剛剛講的禁足會好像形成霸凌、悔過霸凌。假如今天為了要悔過,怕變成一個霸凌的話,禁足也可以這樣講,你每天罰我戰,那也是個霸凌。 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10386.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10415.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
所以這種種的做法,我想部隊領導統一是個為什麼大學問?幹部把自己的修為弄好了以後,下級不會有什麼反對意見,聽他的。所以我覺得今天任何規範,我一開頭一定尊重法,看大家的意見,但我覺得這是給我們幹部來講的話一個很好的教育,就是讓我們知道考慮事情一定要更加周延,絕對不是一個人講的就算了,一言堂。 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10416.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10420.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
一定要經過大家一個召集開會而這個人員開會的人員都有很好的規範就剛有委員問到一下開會要多久一個禮拜兩個禮拜這不是重點因為這裡面的人員有規定哪些專業人員不是我們軍方自己找的就把它找來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10436.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10437.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
草案事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10459.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10482.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
所以我很尊重大家意見,我也希望大家給一個規範,而且讓幹部也得到一個很好的教育,對我們幹部來講也是一個很好的教育,我們都樂於接受,謝謝各位。好,謝謝部長。我們剛才有關悔過的部分是因為完全相左的意見,我們先保留。現在有關這一個所謂的罰款的部分, |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10483.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10486.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10508.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10528.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
這一個是幹預部長講的一個重點就是我們訂這個法是讓領導幹部在法的授權內去做而不是在情緒內去做處罰這是這法的目的但是我們如果給他的權限跟現實上比方說我剛才講法款比降級還嚴重他在處理上就會產生我到底要用哪一招來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10530.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10536.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
馬委員可不可以在第4條你的修正版本上是不是可以讓這個國防部的版本好不好那時候為什麼提20萬他罰50降到20為什麼是20啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10546.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10547.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
草案案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10574.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10577.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10597.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10597.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10612.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10615.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
事件處理法草案案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10632.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10654.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
我跟同仁溝通,列在重大有三個意義。第一個,列在重大的項目要啟動,它的程序比較嚴謹,而不是長官說要啟動啟動,它沒有列在一般的。首先罰5000塊就不會弄到這裡來。第二個,它的救濟程序也會搭配。 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10655.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10656.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
處理法草案案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10672.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10676.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們很認同其實我們現在應該要有領導統一的一個好的工具這個部分我們絕對認同可是你在定這個法的時候不要以後衍生更多的問題因為我們看到有一些內容其實以後你並不好執行或者執行起來以後也會有很多的問題這個是我們今天要討論的啦贊成啦贊成我們支持啦所以我會說 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10697.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10700.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
現在這一塊馬委員的修正案跟剛才悔過不一樣因為悔過是有兩個完全不一樣的思維所以那個我沒辦法現在是金額的寫法是寫罰款20萬以上還是寫全新五個月以上其實是描述方式不一樣金額差額其實不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10717.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10734.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那我還是個人建議說是我是支持馬委員的版本是因為對於很多的要想喔就是這麼多的義務義難那年輕人他們在看的時候因為這次我們的這個修法大家都非常的重視那他光是看到就是說重大懲罰20萬以上有多少他們現在可能要當兵的人才18歲看到都嚇尿了 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10742.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10747.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10771.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10796.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
懲罰法目的是希望處罰做錯,嚇阻犯錯所以會怕、會擔心不是一件壞事情就是說懲罰法如果讓他覺得不會怕或者沒有用這個法有沒有用這是一件事情就是說我們反而要嚴謹的是我們反而是嚴謹的在處理違法或違常行為的時候不能濫權 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10797.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10800.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10813.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10832.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我跟柯委員報告,法款在現行的懲罰法是沒有這個規定的。我們這次之所以要這樣規定,也是第一個,以後如果經過彈劾的人,他是必須要進懲戒法院。那懲戒法院對公務員的懲罰,他是從一萬到一百萬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10833.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10848.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
軍人將來有可能還是會被彈劾彈劾進了懲戒法院之後你不能讓懲戒法院沒有這個選項所以說當初把罰款放進來我一度要跟各位報告我們在前面有詢答也有說過罰款它真的主要不是要針對義務役的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10849.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10876.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
有些人他已經退伍了之後他可能無心可罰也無職可撤也無主可盡也無情可罰那個時候但是可能發現他犯錯的時候是在服役期間所以說有的時候針對不同的選擇才會有罰款這個相關的一個選項當初其實一個也是要跟將來懲戒法院的一個相關的種類做一個搭配我們已經有考量到說不論是待遇也好或是等等的話所以說我們是從我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10878.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10880.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10897.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10899.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10913.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10915.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10930.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10931.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10955.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10956.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10981.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10983.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
案。二、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11008.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11022.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
所以大家不要一直講到那個部分就是因為這個所謂的黨防協商我們今天這個審完之後送協商就是還是我們的召委來主持第一次的協商我認為不會到那邊去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11026.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11028.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
行政院條目次第5條,徐巧芯版15條,馬文君委員修正案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11049.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11052.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
情惡中的違紀行為應受什麼處罰。」我們是先請馬委員說明一下。好,就這一個部分,因為我們當初在104年修訂本法條的時候,已經有充分討論是否要明訂違紀的太陽。那我們現在第5條的第4款裡面, |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11069.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11073.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
其他於執行勤務時之不當行為。」其實這個非常隆重因為你像當時我們就是會希望說你要讓服役的軍人不要因為不了解而犯下錯誤也就是我們所謂的不教而殺為之虐我們當時修這個法的很重要的精神在這裡可是你現在把它定章因為我們希望可以稍微修正一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11097.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11100.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
因為你原來是其他於執行勤務時之不當行為,這樣太籠統,我們是不是把它修成其他違私行為違反已送立法院被查或國防部頒訂之法令,因為你有明訂了,大家知道這是錯的,不然你隨便說我說你違紀就違紀,你現在訂了那麼多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11121.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11137.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
如果他一樣你覺得還不足那你修啊就在你原來的像送立法院被查或國防部頒訂的這些相關的法令你去修就好了所以這個不要違背我們當初立這個法的這個精神那個馬委員的部分我基本上認同就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11140.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11160.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
比較清楚的什麼樣的情形列在第4條原來的條文是其他於執行情務之不當行為有點像開放授權但是這裡我要特別提我今天開會一開始我請其他相關單位教育部、海巡署、國安局這條跟你們有關係如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11162.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11178.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
國防部頒訂之法令認為是情務上的違紀行為在教育部的教官在海巡署的軍官在國安局的軍官處分單位不是國防部但是他的身份是軍人要受這個條文約束所以變成國防部訂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11180.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11182.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11196.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11199.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11215.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11235.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
但是這個軍人是在教育部的話其實不是國防部處分喔是教育部處分在海巡署海巡處分那我是不是先請教教育部的意見我先講一句話一句話就好了就是因為就是因為這個有在海巡署有在這個教育部所下 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11236.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11260.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
就必須要有一致性一致性的話就是全部照國防部訂的我現在就問他要聽一致性現在國防部的這個海巡署很寬政委員就是說海巡署教育部跟國防部確實是不同的部我知道就是要一致性要依國防部的為什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11261.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11268.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
因為現在目前國防部的是最嚴的最嚴格的啦國防部的對志願役的軍人來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11270.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11296 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
影響很大,而現在我們的志願役軍人要遭也很困難。」所以這個部分呢,這會關係到後面的條文。我贊成一致性,但是像翁小林委員是法律專家,我現在問的是,國防部的法令,叫教育部去執行的時候,教育部在法律上的執行上有沒有約束力? |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11302.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11324.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我簡單跟各位報告一下我跟各位報告一下第5條跟第6條它兩個條文一個是在執勤中一個是在扶勤以外的時間所以說我們自己也看到委員這邊講的第5條委員講的也很有道理啦那其實說真的原來第5條訂的第4款本來就是一個補充我們怕原來有遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11325.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11342.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
委員如果改成現在這樣子的話當然可以就是其實憑良心講在第一款都已經包含在內了所以說就是執勤當中所有執勤的法令因為現在用的最多的委員您用的這個國防部跟我們所定班的相關的立法院的法規目前是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11343.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11365.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
國防部定班的法律其實憑良心講就是國軍軍風機維護實施規定那個實施規定他在執行當中的話只要用第一款就可以懲罰了如果委員真的覺得第五條的這個第四款比較概括那我們是建議說是不是我們就把第四款這個拿掉我們把一二三款其實規範的還明確也就可以用了以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11366.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11373.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。七、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。八、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11396.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11419.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
其他違紀行為違反國防部或與國防部沒有隸屬關係的服役機關所頒的法令也就是我國防部規定我國防部的同仁你離開服刑期間你違反什麼規定我國防部會頒那教育部也好或是海巡也好或是國安局也好他們去定頒他們相關的法令不就是軍人身份都一起規定就好了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11419.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11446.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11447.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11463.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
或是教育部的教官你要做處分的時候要依國防部所定的法令。我贊成了。所以這樣才會一致性。我們現在有相關部會的列席官員。我們是請教育部鄭文堯專委有沒有什麼意見?麥克風要不然我沒辦法做記錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11471.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11491.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
主席各位委員大家好目前教育部是有瑕屬軍訓教官因為軍訓教官也是軍人的身份所以目前我們是希望就是參照國防部現有的相關規定所以我們通過這個你們照執行是沒有問題是我們是不受影響謝謝好 國安局國安局吳副署長你有沒有打開我們這要會議記錄的你要打開 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11497.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11498.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11510.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11533.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
海巡署翁群遠專委海巡報告目前我們的意見是同交易部跟國安局的意見OK那就沒問題所以回到剛才馬文君委員提案我個人贊成這個提案但是剛才省市委司長說那這一條就是拿掉用一二三條來規範還是把馬委員的留著我都OK我覺得都OK看馬委員的意見我支持留馬委員的我先問一下馬委員的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11540.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11560.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
如果可以留,你對其他的違施行為就會報了,你就把它留下來。審事長,這一第4條照馬委員的修正動議通過,你有沒有影響?沒有影響的話,那我們這個第4條的部分,馬委員的修正動議就取代原來的。對,第5條的第4項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11566.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11589.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
第15條是徐巧芯委員提出來的所以我這邊就是支持馬委員的版本我可以先發表一下意見嗎這個馬委員的版本其實呢這個是超原來現行條文的第14款的規定那可是我看起來就是說你們現在修正的這個其他違規行為的這個規定會跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11594.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11611.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
第一款的規定會重疊,其實事實上沒有太大的意義,也就是說你通過第一款為被逾越法令執行勤務就已經涵蓋了你這邊想要規定的第四款。翁委員講的對啦,其實他第一款就取代原來14款啦。但是我覺得,如果委員認為留著。不是不是,不是這樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11619.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11642.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這個第一款這個看我們後面的法有沒有參考我的條文來去修會有關係了馬委員所提的就是說要送到立法院被查的第六款第四款要送到立法院被查這有差別因為現在很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11643.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11663.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
國防部現在懲罰的很多的尤其是那個勤務外的行為什麼勤務內的行為很多的處罰都用行政規則了都不是法律不是法律不是說全部到送立法院被查對不是很多都不是很多都是用定要點的了 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11664.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11679.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
他們很多都是定義要點對那個軍人的影響很大這樣好不好因為我們今天這兩本不知道要審到什麼時候第5條的第3項我覺得大家有共識啦那原則上我們就先把馬委員的修正動議通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11681.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11700.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
修正同意通過。至於這條文怎麼寫比較完備,我們最後總整理的時候來處理。我們先把精神一下通過啦。報告主委,我們只有一個意見,就是第5條照馬委員的版本,我們只建議就是其他違施行為改成違紀行為。因為我們這整個法都會把它變成違紀。自此改成違紀行為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11702.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11715.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具第5條的馬文君委員修正案及徐巧芯委員提案的第15條,我們併案處理以馬文君委員的修正動議通過,但為失改為繼。第6條有馬文君委員的提案,是馬文君委員先說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11734.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11735.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11746.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11749.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11765.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11768.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
結果因為幫太太去送Fu Panda結果他就被汰除而且他汰除他19年的那個那個退縫對,那個都沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11779.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11783.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
這個誰敢來當兵啊你今天如果說因為你過去你基於戰訓本務或者像這樣因為你的那個時機點都已經不一樣了所以我們希望可以做比較明確的不得兼任違反社會善良風俗之職業或差事因為你們要定你們會定說兼職或經營商業其實我覺得你只要不違反社會善良風俗因為你們上一次是因為那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11809.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11810.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11832.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11833.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
條文修正草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11850.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11875.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
第七條我們就不再討論了啦因為剛才已經大概有共識了就比照剛才就是那個其他維持行為第六條第七款第七款第六條的七款我們就不用討論了就照前一個案子來方式來處理國防部這部分也沒有爭議了啦我們到第六條的部分因為第六條的原來的版本是不能兼職不能營商這個是我相信軍人大概長期來都是這樣不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11875.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11889.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
不過你第6條裡面他也是說為依法令兼職或經營商業所以他原來寫的是為依法令的兼職或經營商業什麼叫依法令?比方說軍人有時候是依法要去兼職的他要兼任職務的這是一個討論就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11895.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11899.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
不得兼任違反社會善良風俗之職業或差事的意思。 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11906.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11907.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11939.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11963.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
衛醫法令兼職或經營商業如果是馬委員的這個相關的方式的話確實就字面解釋起來的話就不違反善良風俗就可以去兼職這個是比較對我們現行的政策來講是比較可能跟我們現行來講的話對軍人的身份特性也不一樣重便他可以下班回家但是我們還有緊急召回或者緊急任務要他 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11964.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11969.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
立刻回到營區的時候,他也不能說我現在正在做什麼其他事。我知道委員擔心的是,我們簡單講, |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11972.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11983.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12003.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12030.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
國軍監職規定,我們會做一個重新的檢診,我們也已經跟人事部門做過兩次的討論,將來這個東西我們會定,我們也問了全巡部,我們可能會用職權命令的方式來定,會定一個國軍到底是怎麼樣的情況,譬如說監課是允許的,有一些就像剛才趙薇講的,依法令要做的一些監職,或是其他那些東西,有些東西是要允許的,但是可能就沒有辦法大到說只要不違反善良風俗等等都會做, |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12031.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12034.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12061.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12086.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我們先聽一下其他委員意見洪山委員再來林楚英委員再來曾天才委員來洪委員請我想請問比方說這一條就是其實我剛有跟馬委員也有點相似的疑問比方說如果是一個義務役那我在義務役我放假的時候我回家比方說我家裡如果開一個小吃店 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12089.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12097.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12108.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12124.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
這會有喔,其實現在很多他學生時期其實就在做這種直播的事情喔,那這算不算?我就說這個邊界在什麼地方?我是覺得在這個條文上面會不會要另一個執法來去做更細緻的規定?這裡面會產生蠻多模糊地帶的,這部分我也想請教國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12129.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12131.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12152.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12175.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我的意見當然就跟馬委員、深海委員都一樣只是說我會認為國防部現在所講的就是未依法令那麼現在就是這個法令到底是什麼法令必須定出來不然的話就是國防部必須回答軍人就是完全不能兼職那這個部分其他委員講了我就不多做贅述就是所謂如果說是國防部的版本未依法規那是哪一個法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12176.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12177.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12196.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12212.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
這個軍人非執行勤務而有下列勤務質疑者這樣的一個人因為我其實我不會很在意那個EWE因為他一下子就回去了通常也不會做很大處分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12212.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12239.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
我更在意的就是職業軍人職業的這些軍人怎麼樣讓他能夠確保繼續捍衛我們的國家我重視的是這個部分所以我剛剛有幾例那個刑事法第一款故意觸犯刑事法例那個太多樣了全部都要重大處罰這個部分因為你只有排除第七款了 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12239.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12245.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12269.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12274.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12289.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12294.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12312.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12315.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
你同意是嗎?我沒有意見,我們綜合討論,但是你們兩個條文有不一樣沒有沒有,我來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12321.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12349.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這第一款到第七款還是要增加款我沒有意見我只是說這些要怎麼處理我不會處理我只是提醒一下就是說你們兩邊的提案的文字在條文上有一些我們融合處理我會綜合處理我尊重那個馬委員前面的第七款要修第六款要修我都可以接受我只是多一項你多了那個懲罰處分標準國防定制對我只是多一項而且我刪除了那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12350.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12372.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
只有第七款行為是不得為重大處懲罰。」我刪除那個部分,為什麼呢?把這個標準到底是要記過,還是要記大過,還是要繪過,還是要做罰款,就定在法規命令裡面。好,謝謝鄭委員。羅美玲委員完,再來是翁小玲委員,來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12374.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12375.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
公務人員服務法第15條第1項及第2項著作文之修正。 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12399.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12414.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
處法令規定外不得兼任領證職業及其他彷彿從事同種類行為之業務,但由於法定工作時間之外從事社會公益性質之活動或其他非經常性持續性之工作, |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12415.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12439.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我想問一下剛剛我所提到公務人員的這個服務法的這個所謂的非經常性持續性之工作且未影響本職工作者不在此限是不是就可以解決了剛剛這個洪宣漢委員所說的如果說家裡開小吃店我休假我回去然後呢我在家裡幫忙那這算不算是非經常性持續性之工作請問一下待會我們再一併處理那翁曉琳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12444.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12446.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12473.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12474.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12496.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12521.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
只要是不違反善良風俗的事。」那這是我們認為說作為一個國家的一個軍人他就有這麼樣的一個榮譽的身份他難道對於他的在刑務外的這樣的一個行為不應該以更高的標準去要求嗎?所以我基本上是支持這個行政院院板的未依法令的堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12524.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12541.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
這個部分的話是合乎這個我們對於這個軍人的要求但是對於經營商業的部分這是超出現在公務員員服務法裡面的其他的規定這個有沒有必要說特別講經營商業其實會以法令兼職是不是就可以涵蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12544.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12545.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12572.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12573.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
處理法草案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12574.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12576.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
處理法草案案。五、國防部必須更新國軍人員兼職辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12605.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12628.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
民國94年的國軍人員兼職辦法,那裏面就可以處理我們蓋獎的問題,家裏小支部回家幫個忙,那時候我之前還處理一個他家裏在祁山做貨運行的,等一塞幾座會車就被記過了,這確實有些不盡人情,那因為國軍人員兼職辦法是一個行政命令,民國94年訂的老舊了,我們現在年輕人清創啊,清農啊,他家裏做農場他回去拔個蘿蔔那你要罰他嗎,我建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12632.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12646.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我們這個條文這樣寫是對的我們不能讓國軍可以隨意帶貨直播啊什麼這個不好啦但是我們在國軍人員兼職辦法我們要求本法實施之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12647.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12652.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
國防部必須提出更新版的國軍人員兼職辦法,必須報本委員會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12664.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12666.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12683.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12694.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
未依法令兼職或經營商業。」這個不行但是我們在立法要職上要求在本法執行之前國防部必須提出更新版的國軍人員兼職辦法這樣來處理這條文好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12697.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12712.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
再補充一句,另外也可以在未來的修法理由裏面可以再加上就排除那種非常態性的這個這個臨時工作那個辦法那個辦法可以把它寫清楚寫在那裏面我覺得那個辦法就可以與時俱進來列了那個沈會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12715.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12716.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我贊成國軍跟公教不一樣的定性,責任也重大。 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12739.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12761.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
第6條,是不是就以本席剛才的宣誓來做通過?對,其實是按照馬委員,但是我把它用原條文然後加了一個他要更新這一個堅持辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12762.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12788.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
因為不是兼職而已啊我剛講的比如說一個臨時停車被處罰要記過一次這是很重的所以這個部分是必須要定我一開始前面講的刑事案件啊非常的多樣我講了因為我們職業軍人啊原住民職業軍人這樣的比例很高20% |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12791.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12803.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我們很多的土地被化為國有土地然後被告竊贊竊贊就判刑了然後他就要重大懲罰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12805.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12806.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12826.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12829.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那你把那個前項第7款,你講的是第7款啦沒有沒有沒有全部全部的標準由國防部定制啊對啊對啊,國防部定制,他本來就要定制他本來就要定啊我把他提高為法規命令那個沈市長,加這一句你的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12843.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12851.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
提高違法規命令的位階才是正辦的。我們是要保障這個職業軍人,所以我們要保障的是職業軍人。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12864.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12871.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。七、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。八、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。九、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12890.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12912.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
應該要比一個低階的士兵或是士官開車操作重。」我只是先舉這個例子一樣的行為在不同的人在做或是怎麼樣或是相同的行為那個規範會規範不完所以我們才會跟委員報告我們國防部都會能夠定基準的我們就定譬如說酒駕國防部有定定一個懲罰的基準原則上就照著那個來 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12913.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12915.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12931.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12931.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12954.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12979.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
審判基準判決案件,例如酒駕、良性淫規、兼職等,能定的我們都會定,大家會照著那個來做。至於委員剛剛您舉的那個例子,我也反對。我反對懲罰,就是臨時停車還要記過一次,我也覺得怪怪的,但我沒有看到那個案例。或許將來透過比較完善的救濟制度,我覺得這個東西會改,如果說今天已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12980.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13000.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
違反交通規則闖紅燈被開了個罰單回到營區之後還要再給他計個過我覺得這個不適當這個不適當但我沒有看到那個個案啦那如果現在有這種個案的話我認為透過救濟這種行為他都可以救濟啊救濟我覺得應該會救濟成功好那個政委員我再一句話就好了好一句話給你因為他談了很多酒駕沒有他剛剛有講酒駕嗎有有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13005.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13034.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
有訂酒駕,光你這個酒駕的基準,就是需要檢討。第一個,酒駕,它已經依道路交通管理處罰條例去處理了。該罰的、該罰的、該怎麼樣的,都有了。要不要那麼重?現在部隊酒駕是太粗了。不是,情務外,是到銀漆外,它已經有一個案例,它就住在銀漆附近而已啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13035.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13050.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13051.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13055.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13077.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13078.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
二、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13093.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13099.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13123.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13127.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
二、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13137.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13140.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院函請審查：一、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13156.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13172.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
政務委員聽我說啦政務委員你的部分我要處理啦我不要把他寫在罰裡面要不然將來真的會有問題變成我沒有表列都不能罰了這很怪我們是不是請國防部把他的評定的標準現在已經有整理出來的提供一份給您給我們兩個委員會的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13173.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13176.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。七、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。八、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13202.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13217.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
第二、有關目前就相關的非執行勤務的違紀行為的處罰,請國防部提供一份你們目前訂定的基準標準給與會委員做參考並給予建言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13225.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13233.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13244.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13251.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
事件處理法草案案案件事件處理法草案案件事件處理法草案案件事件處理法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13269.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13297.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
跟各位同仁報告,我們盡量今天看能不能處理完明天就大家鼠籠剛胸了所以我們今天會開比較長的時間有關第6條的部分本期再宣告一次第6條的部分按照院版通過但是請國防部在今天散會前擬出一個附帶決議叫更新你們那個叫國軍人員監職條例監職辦法是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13300.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13304.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
審事長,你們那個全名叫什麼?更新國軍人員兼職辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13311.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13330.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
國軍人員不得在外兼職兼拆規定。」請你們把這個規定更新而且我建議用正面的你不得會變成沒有寫到通通可以我不認為我們司令有那麼周延正面的那包含洪森委員提到的什麼新創的行業啦或者在家裡幫忙啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13330.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13334.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13355.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13368.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
第10條,馬文君委員、翁曉琳委員都有提修正,有遠而近。先請翁曉琳委員說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13384.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13389.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
我在這邊很快的就我這裡所提出的修正動議向各位說明在第10條第2項針對長官所下達的命令若違反刑事法律者然後處正當行使武力之情形外軍人無服從義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13406.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13426.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那麼因為對於什麼樣的情況叫做屬於正當行使武力之情形我認為不應該這麼模糊啦給這個長官有過大的一個解釋空間所以我建議要加兩個字就是依法它必須要是依法屬於正當行使武力的情形那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13431.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13450.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
那明知該命令違反刑事法律且非依法屬正當刑事武力之情形而人執行者就應受處罰。總之就是要將正當刑事武力的情形必須要把它法制化明文化不能夠讓長官有過多的這個行政裁量權好那個法律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13455.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13456.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13470.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13482.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
就這個部分因為軍人的工作其實不只是在訓練上面的部分而已他甚至還有一些依據政策指導或者像採購或者還有簽程等等其實這些都涵蓋在內那如果說長官在認為沒有違法的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13494.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13499.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
在這一部分我認為應該要下達書面命令因為你說那未來其實衍生的責任由長官複製可是你沒有任何的證據啊所以就這個部分我們認為如果像你要下達類似這樣的命令應該要用書面因為我們看到很多我們接到很多很多的陳情比如說那個有什麼樣的裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13518.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13525.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13546.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13573.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
所有的事情層層把關然後可以有效的去執行不要讓下面的人去承擔這樣的責任那也有依據啦所以我們還是希望可以做一些文字的修正剛才翁曉琳委員的文字修正會更嚴謹這個是OK現在馬文君委員的修正部分變成是如果口頭命令沒有下達書面命令的話就適同收回命令喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13574.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13602.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那個是不是這個意思就是說馬委員我先確認一下就是說我在我的職務範圍內長官下達命令如果認為沒有違法以書面下達軍人要服從那如果長官非以書面下達命令軍人可以請求長官你書面為之那長官拒絕的話適同撤回其命令這意思是說口頭命令你如果沒有轉成書面的話這口頭命令就無效 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13603.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13606.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13625.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13641.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
那我對於文字的細節呢沒有特別的看法但本質上我理解馬文君委員的意見是支持的因為有的時候如果長官他下的命令是違法的那衍生的相關責任那不應該跟懲罰是有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13643.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13660.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
所以我們希望就是說如果今天長官他下了違法的命令那我們的基層士兵他是不是有一個機會他能夠在整個過程當中他不受到相關的懲罰那只要是能夠合於這樣子的一個想法的文字我都可以支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13661.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13673.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
審議《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。七、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。八、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13687.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13702.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
合法可以執行的命令這個沒有爭議違法你明知違法不可以執行的譬如說聯黨叫你去偷隔壁人的東西不可以你就算偷了不管他給你書面你也要負責違法不能做的也就不能做現在唯一有爭議的就是說長官叫你做然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13703.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13725.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
如果不修的話在實務上面容易產生就是說部署只要一質疑一質疑的時候有的時候那個命令不是大家坐在辦公桌上下命令我今天帶你到野外去可能有遇到一些什麼狀況給你下命令如果你來給我質疑質疑完了之後我拿不出書面這個就沒有辦法執行或是說我今天不給那將來等於是命令要撤回我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13726.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13728.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
條文修正草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13742.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13765.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
譬如我們講有士兵他們要對於長官來講有的他是可以挑戰因為他可能只有四個月一年他就離開了他因為直接公務員他們會要書面其實那個在職場上壓力那另外一回事如果長官叫我排除我說對不起我說那可能毀損我說搞不好會有其他違反相關的法令我不做那長官還得回去寫個書面寫個書面才能繼續往下做 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13766.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13767.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13782.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13801.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
同仁給基層的同仁給他科與更多的義務沒有當初的要動這一條的主要的目的就是說如果合法可行的命令本來大家就照做大部分絕大99%的命令都是這一種如果違法不可以做的你就算長官給你書面你也不能做只是在中間有疑慮的時候這邊講的就是長官負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13803.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13805.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13822.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13826.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13846.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13869.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那現在就是說在第10條我個人是建議是照院版他比較符合現況的運用但如果說我們認為說如果沒有書面下達命令軍我下屬說長官你要下字條否則我不執行這個樣態好不好我建議各位同仁思考一下思考一下來徐委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13870.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13894.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
我提問一個問題就是書不書面其實我不是這麼在乎但是對於如果長官下達的命令那他是不是應該要在這個法律裡面規定他必須要先知道自己未違法呢我覺得因為馬偉偉你這邊有講到嘛就是說該管長官如任其命令未違法那軍人即應服從 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13895.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13907.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13925.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13928.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
審柏洋委員提動議審柏洋委員提動議審柏洋委員提動議審柏洋委員提動議審柏洋委員提動議審柏洋委員提動議審柏洋委員提動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13959.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13970.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
有意見我們要不要我們還是還是可以延長一些時間但是不是不是不要到不要用玩具這樣好不好我們先這樣子好我 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13975.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14002.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
其實最辛苦的條文都在前面我們這一次是深水區在前面後面還好這樣好不好我也不寫審查完略我們先延長時間到晚上8點這樣好不好我用時間到5點半吧5點半就不用提這個案了本來就到5點半這是延長討論就不要影響到大家的我們可以提案延長開會這是常態就是說我們現在可是我們也可以提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14003.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14026.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
當然當然我們現在在討論嘛我們是不是省到8點如果省到8點可以完成那明天就不用開了嘛我們就結束了那如果省到8點沒有完明天就再繼續開啦我覺得就分兩天開吧大家這樣子品質比較好啊來各位表達意見我們本來的議程就是兩天為什麼要這麼急回去還可以再慢慢再看一次明天繼續討論啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14034.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14034.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
只要超過5點半就要提延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14038.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14064.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
到今天各位提我沒有意見我陪你們不好意思我不太同意的原因是因為我覺得我們本來的排案就是排兩天那也不需要說今天忙著審完然後明天就沒有那我也覺得就是說這個案子大家討論的那麼細緻那提案的品質也很重要那有一些有一些爭議的地方我們今天晚上回去大家也都還可以想想或許明天也會有突破性的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14064.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14065.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
處理法草案案 案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14075.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14088.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
其實國防部也看到了就是每個委員有提出一些修正動議請你們回去也study一下到底哪些是你們堅持不能接受的哪些是你們可以接受這樣的話也可以加速明天的討論堅持通常不會加速不要到7點7點還要買便當還要浪費錢對不對就到6點啦浪費電對現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14096.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14097.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14113.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14114.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14132.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14153.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
我們通常喜歡巧克力盒前面先吃後面盒子留少一點但是OK尊重大家意見我們開到6點了好不好6點了我們依立法院議事規則第27號規定我們延長開會至6點那便當就不要買了吧不用了不用浪費錢了你們已經買了已經買了 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14154.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14161.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
條文修正草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14171.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14186.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我們在部隊的當下可能是排長帶班長或班長帶兵我在下命令的時候兵可不可以挑戰說你認不認為這合法合法你要下個條子這在部隊運作上會不會有問題就是說我們部隊是個訓練的紀律部隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14188.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14209.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
長官交付的任務跟他的任務範圍其實是有個框定的我守這個海岸線就海岸線我看這個雷達螢幕就雷達螢幕所以99%以上的口頭命令大概都是Lofo都是合法的一個命令但我們現在如果這個寫上去之後會變成會有一個兵某一個兵他會告訴你長官你不下條子我不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14210.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14217.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14232.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14247.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14261.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14279.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
那所以這邊的話是不是要寫,就是要不要有第三人?那個是我跟委方的實際上的問題了。微常的情形,坦白講我們部隊也沒有那麼差啦,微常是少數。正常的狀況下,比如說我剛才跟陳永康委員我們在聊,比如說我們在,像我在飛機上嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14280.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14282.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14303.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14308.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
條文修正草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14313.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14326.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
確保大家都可以互相舉證,部隊在運作上變成輸出要下條子。」這個我們講實際上真的有困難啊。我完全理解,只是說在申訴的過程當中,它是要有證據、要有證明。那我只是講說,這個軍中過去這麼多年來,一定常常會遇到這樣的狀況,那怎麼樣能夠保存,就是對於這種說服口頭命令,它認為它是明顯違法。這參考啦,我看過的情形是說,部隊是集體生活啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14341.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14344.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14350.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14374.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
我還看過一個案子是在輪機裡面,就只有3個人。對,這種都是個案啦,因為多數不會發生這個情形,多數下的命令業務那個都固定的。就發生不合理的情形的時候,第一種情形,像陸軍是集體生活,他調查是查得出來的。另外一種是,長官下給我,我一個上位,那上面一個上校下個命令給我,就我們兩個人而已。 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14376.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14398.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
將來監察或者相關去調查的時候這要花點心力但我的意思是說總會有遇到因為案子不是每件案子都能查啦但我意思是說我們這個條文定下去會不會讓部隊的運作就利弊之間我們要權衡一下我不否認有些案子確實舉證會有困難一定會有但是這個定下去會不會有運作上困難我覺得國防部可以多表達一些意見對 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14404.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14406.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14417.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14440.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
有些案子可能會不好舉證,但是我們這次像連調查上面,我們都有把調查專章,我們都寫了很多的條文,這個可以查出來的。我今天接到一個不合理的命令或是什麼,我出來我可能我就,他就算沒有當場聽到,我出來我可能我就跟人家講,說剛剛長官怎麼叫我這樣弄,這個不能。調查的時候,我是覺得這個可以查出來。如果都要用書面,確實是會比較困難啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14443.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14449.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14460.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14467.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
你現在全部把它推翻掉的那個那個意義或概念是什麼因為剛剛說你在即使在密室或什麼你可以去調查很難我如果出來我跟你說剛剛那個徐巧芯打我那他不是他講你不是聽他講你聽的是我講的啊所以我覺得那很難我們現在你正常的兵或正常的部署不會隨便抗命 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14485.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14489.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
這是正常的,就是你指揮說他應該要去做什麼事情一般的常態性的事物我覺得都沒有問題可是如果要下達書面命令是比較特殊的狀況就是你的要求可能讓大家覺得違法或不合理的情況之下才會有這種狀況我現在沒有說叫你去把那個無人機如果真的要打下來你就應該要把它打下來這個是軍人的職責 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14512.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14517.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
這個部分我們都沒有意見可是你過去為什麼要把它修成用書面它一定有它的條件在那現在這樣的條件沒了或者它有什麼樣的問題那如果有這樣的問題你應該要去做修正可是我們要怎麼樣保障我覺得這才是重點因為它不會常常發生這不是常態發生的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14535.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14562.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
其實你說他不是常態發生嗎?我也有點質疑因為我們看到院版的第10條那他說軍人對權責長官職務下達的命令有服從之義務如果認為該命令違法應向權責長官表示意見那就我知道的基層軍官在這裡就已經不敢了啦我們今天在這裡的都是長官所以大家不會這麼覺得但是問題是基層的官兵就已經不敢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14562.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14579.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
那該長官於撤回命令前軍人仍應服從那當然也沒有後面了那因其所產生之責任由長官負責那長官當然也不用負責了所以我覺得這是一個軍中的長期的一個文化所以我比較同意朝偉剛剛講到的就是說我們在這個第10條應該是要努力講說不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14586.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14606.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
要向權責長官表示意見而是他有沒有一個能夠舉證跟申訴的管道讓他們不要只能向權責長官表達意見但是最後他可能要必須被迫做一些說不定也不到違法但是呢已經很邊界灰色地帶的事因為我們說真的作為明代接到很多來自基層軍官的陳情都是類似的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14615.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14616.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14625.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14649.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
第10條,他的前提是軍人對於這個權責長官下的命令他認為違法,所以這個是在有爭議的少數現象而不是我們正常的勤務運作我認為違法我怕死無對證,你要給我下個字條否則告訴你我做的跟你無關,大概是這個用意我們是不是在第一段,該館長官認為請命令並違法而以書面下達時,軍人即應服從 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14657.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14665.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
前向情形災傳長官非以書面下達命令的軍人得請求請以書面為之。該館長官拒絕時視為撤回其命令。 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14675.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14679.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14700.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14727.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
根據那個行為我們就比較好調查說當時他講要你下執照可能比較堅信真實因為我怕下了第二段畢竟說你沒有下我就不執行有時候那個戰機一過就過了無人機就飛走了你懂我的意思嗎我的意思是說你前面那段紅字留著就是說我認為這個有這個命令違法請長官以書面下達你書面下達我就服從了那以後責任就清楚了後面那段也不用寫了 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14728.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14734.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14758.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14785.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
同意寧綱大多數的說法,但是有沒有可能就是說大家討論一下就是說前項情形在第二段那個紅色那邊那軍人得請求以書面為之那該長官拒絕時那比方說後續責任由該長官負之類似這樣子的做法那個其實在第一段就處理了因為這裡有牽涉到 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14787.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14790.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14802.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14806.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
處理法條文修正草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14830.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14845.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
對保留前面後面拿掉我這樣講只是我剛才聽了各位意見的想法我不知道部裡面大家思考怎麼樣因為這個其實有時候一萬年用一次可那一次萬一沒有處理好就出問題了那個部長或者是市長這邊有沒有意見我剛才建議這樣折衝 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14847.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14876.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
對,因為我很怕說兵有合法抗命的情形那這個會出大事情好不好我們第10條謝謝那個馬委員我們是不是做局部修正就是軍人對權責長官職務範圍內下達之命令有服從之義務如認為該命令違法應向權責長官表示意見該管長官如認為其命令並未違法而以書面下達時軍人即應服從其因此所產生之 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14877.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14892.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
之責任由該長官賦之。」後面這個就不要了這樣子好不好OK好那我們就這樣子第10條了謝謝各位接下來處理的是院版第12條剛才第10條翁委員也有修正案對翁委員修正案通過了我們剛才有同意他的寫法 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14907.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14910.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14926.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14930.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14955.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14967.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
被查未來持續配合公務員服務法事實修正。二、請國防部提供現行有關非勤務上違紀行為之懲罰基準相關規定,供本院外交國防委員會參酌。 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14982.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
14987.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具徐巧芯等20人擬具徐巧芯等20人擬具徐巧芯等20人 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15013.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15020.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
如果沒有特殊意見我們是照院版通過啦如果學院有意見有有有我有意見我只是有翻頁困難症我們在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15026.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15030.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15044.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15047.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
涉嫌犯罪者所屬單位應該針對為事情節作出行政調查報告,並且事情節針對相關事證作副本保留,避免偵查不公開因素影響該單位及上級權責單位對於案件過程有誤認或無法釐清之模糊空間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15065.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15088.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
提案裏面有多了一項是在關於前項涉犯罪者所屬部隊應同時進行行政調查。倘若調查有必要,相關市政經營單位主管同意後得作副本存查。也就是說呢,因為現在大家都還蠻常討論就是行政調查跟司法調查這兩件事情經常會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15090.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15100.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
庫應該要有衝突的,但是經常會有衝突,那我們希望在這個法律裡面可以做一個清楚的規範,讓未來在行政調查上面我們有法源的依據,以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15104.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15104.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15121.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15125.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15144.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15149.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
處理法草案案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15163.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15177.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15192.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15199.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。七、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。八、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15215.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15217.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15235.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15251.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
明明可以做行政調查,但是卻以偵查不公開為由而沒有了行政調查。」這樣子的一個情況。所以希望說既然我們今天要修法,就把行政調查法…沒有,學員應該提的,我問一下,如果把它的文字改成相關事證經 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15255.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15281.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
檢察官同意後得作副本審查,會不會比較周延一點?因為其實權限不在主觀啦,是在檢察官那邊啦,這樣可以啦我跟委員報告,現在都是這樣做其實你現在寫條文是現場實務,沒關係他把它明確化啦,他要求存副本啦實務歸實務,但是你們沒有入法的時候,我經常問了老半天都沒有法務部跟司法院都在這裡,法務部有沒有意見?法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15283.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15288.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具徐巧芯等20人擬具徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15308.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15334.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
在院版的《修正草案》第二節《刑事偵查是禁核立法理由》裏面已經說了本法在98年1月21日修正公佈實行後也已經採《刑審並行》原則了那麼《憲刑法》的第30條第三項規定同一為之行為在刑事偵查或審判中不停止懲罰程序所以事實上目前來講的話按照我們現行的法律制度本來就是應該是刑審並行 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15335.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15356.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
所以他的這個前段文字其實是等於說重複規定因為現行本來就應該這樣做他不這樣做的話其實是現在法律就已經寫了對現在法律就是這樣所以那個前段不是不是就在我們這個懲罰法懲罰法裡面有懲罰法裡面重複寫了懲罰法請委員可以參考第30條第三項現行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15357.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15359.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
本法在98年1月21日修正公佈施行後以採行程並行原則。 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15382.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15410.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
不過這裡的話就是涉及到那個相關的行政調查的證據如果說是檢察官那邊他有的話他可以同時那個副本的問題那個是後段接下來接下來請說明剛剛報告是關於前段的部分那現在我在跟各位委員報告關於後段的部分就是關於刑事偵查程序與軍人懲罰程序在競合的時候請各位可以參考看到院版修正的院版的修正草案第44條 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15413.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15437.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
可以參考院版修正草案第44條有規定說法律專業人員依本節規定偵查這案件終結前任有將偵查所的證據資料移送權責長官辦理懲罰是必要時應報刑檢案官同意後行之。那麼這個規定跟行政法法第26條第一項行事程序優先原則是相符的而且依照院版修正草案第42條跟第43條條文的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15441.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15455.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
軍事法律專業人員於非暫時應受檢察官指揮協助執行刑事偵查事務,所以也必須要受到刑事訴訟法第245條所規定偵查不公開原則的規範。又參考我們現行的政府資訊公開法第18條第一項第二款, |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15460.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15465.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
公開或提供有礙犯罪之偵查、追訴、執行或足以妨害刑事被告、受公正之裁判或有危害他人生命、身體、自由、財產者。 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15487.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15509.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
依照院版的修正草案條文跟現行的規定來講的話,在兩者競合的時候,依照院版修正草案44條的規範,法律專業人員任由將偵查所得的證據資料移送權責檢察官辦理懲罰必要時,應報請檢察官同意後行之,因此與案件相關的書證文件應如何處置保管。 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15510.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15514.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
以由負責承辦之檢察官決定,較符合現行法制之規定。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15527.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15554.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
依照修正草案44條的規定,若有必要報請檢察官,44條就有規定了。所以說後段,謝謝你參事啦。交委,我講一下,因為呢,因為我們還沒有審到後面,然後主要為什麼我會把這條寫在前面的原因是因為我後面從42條開始一直往後有一大段我個人都是反對的,所以才會把它寫在前面。徐委員,這樣好不好?你的思考是對的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15555.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15570.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
那剛才這個林參事他已經告訴你條文已經涵蓋你的用意了那我們方向一致就好了是不是我們就用院版的條文因為他那樣的寫法符合現行而且也符合你的要旨沒有但是因為昭偉我會有一個問題就是說因為我到後面40幾條之後就是說他剛剛講的那幾條我後面我有我的反對意見但我們還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15579.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15580.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 «軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15597.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15616.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
對阿我關於檢察官的部分我全部都刪除阿這是我個人的意見但是我檢察官這邊全部刪除阿我有很多的我有非常多的理由所以我才把所謂的行政調查為什麼我要寫在這裡的原因所以如果我在這條我重了院版的話那我後面的就全部那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15618.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15641.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
凌晨式的意見是已經涵蓋了你原來要處理的要旨但因為你牽涉到後面的條文我們這是第12條了第12條先保留到後面一併來做處理然後再來第13條有翁曉琳委員的修正動議來請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15645.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15660.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
我這裡只是提一個很簡單的一個字的修正因為在我們一般的法律用語上面通常都是減輕期刑或減輕懲罰可是在院版裡面都是叫重新懲罰我不太瞭解為什麼要做這樣的一個變動 請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15666.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15688.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
謝謝委員我們當初在討論的時候減輕我們是認為說原來有一個定的一個基準然後才有減那重輕的話就因為現在還沒有懲罰還沒有懲罰還不曉得他要給他什麼樣的一個程度所以我們是後來有學者專家提出重輕但我們認為說不論重輕也好減輕也好只要我也知道委員的意思那委員現在要這樣調整我們國防部沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15688.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15691.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15712.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15716.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件徐巧芯等20人擬事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15739.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
15754.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
不是啦我是說院版的42到45條因為我是刪除的嘛我提案是刪除的嘛所以我正確講法是他的提案沒有那些條文啦他不是提案刪除徐巧芯委員的版本沒有那些條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
15754.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
15779.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
抱歉抱歉抱歉我我沒有對對對我我是沒有那些條文的嗎所以我把相關的比如說像是權責長官然後有為施者進行的調查然後呢懲罰的程序調查結果的降階等等相關的評議評議委員會是寫在這一條所以大家可以看一下那如果說大家有意見的話我也可以接受先行保留之後再討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
15781.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
15785.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
15798.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
15803.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具法草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
15824.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
15839.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
就這一條有利及不利之嫌疑於立主席這個是我們一般在調查的時候那看錯了我第15條沒有東西啊那個主席我們自己都看錯了第15條那我這邊怎麼會有一個他的第30條對應是嗎是不是看錯啊這邊寫的是徐曉新版 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
15849.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
15870.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
第15條沒意見第15條沒意見因為我這裡的是空白的因為我這邊有你的版本再來到第2章的第18條有馬文君委員跟陳永康委員都有提案修正陳永康委員是在第18還是19 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
15873.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
15881.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
18有嗎?18就有。好,第18條,那我們先從陳永康委員的修正動議先提。來,18。來,那個是不是用麥克風表達意見?來。你寫在19喔,你不是18喔,陳委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
15898.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
15900.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
徐巧芯等18人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
15910.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
15915.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
徐巧芯等軍人權益事件處理法草案。三、行政院徐巧芯等軍人權益事件處理法草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等軍人權益事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等軍人權益事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
15932.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
15935.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍軍事官服役條例第25條士兵准用的部分已經有明文規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
15949.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
15955.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
最少需要犯有期徒刑一年以上之刑責,你才會剝奪或減少他的退儲給予。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
15970.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
15975.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
有判有期徒刑以上一年以上才有這樣子的一個就是剝奪或減少退出給予可是像我們一般危機有什麼樣這麼嚴重需要到你去剝奪他的那個退出給予或是減少嗎因為在行政法裡面什麼樣的行為你除了三大過測值以外有哪一種太陽在你不違法的情況之下要這麼重 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16000.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16002.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
我們請他說明一下我覺得很難理解而且這樣有點是空白授權請法律司舊18條就是說這裡面牽涉到人事、財產、紀律等等再剝奪減少退出給予等等你們的理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16021.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16046.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
我跟召委韓國委員報告就是剛剛馬委員講的馬委員其實後面那幾個條文都是針對剝奪或減少退出給予那我們當初在訂的時候我就跟委員報告就是因為軍人如果被彈劾的話是要送懲戒法院那懲戒法院他在做公務員的懲戒裡面公務員的懲罰裡面的話懲戒裡面他會有這個相關的種類那先前在巡達跟公聽會時有很多的委員也覺得說剝奪減少退出給予 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16047.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16052.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。六、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《軍人權益事件處理法草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16065.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16092.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
剝奪退出給予由懲戒法院剝奪被副懲戒人以依法審定之退出給予其已知領者並應追回之。二、減少退出給予由懲戒法院減少被副懲戒人以依法審定之退出給予的20%至57%已知領者應追回之。三、前兩項鎖定退出給予因案最近一次退伍解除 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16093.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16109.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
召集或除役前服役年資計算,但背負懲戒人本人繳付之退府基金費用本席不在此限。」也就是說,剝奪監獄退出給予,這個是懲戒法院來做,軍事長官不做,就是跟委員報告。那這樣的話,因為公務員也是一樣,剝奪監獄退出給予, |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16111.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16124.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
如果有人被彈劾了,送到檢察院彈劾完了之後,送到懲戒法院去,懲戒法院他也可以去針對,不論軍人也好,公務員也好,都可以用剝奪減少退出給予,這樣都不會...沈先生,我先釐清一下你的說法,你的說法是要把第18條,這個要... |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16126.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16129.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
條文修正草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。七、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16155.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16178.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
確定判決證明書或懲戒法院第二審判決後應通知退出給予的核定機關,重新審定退出給予,並複製退出給予資給機關。也就是說第25條動完以後第70條在那個執行面上面稍微調整一下那至於其他的條文法律社說明是第一個這一個要動到退休給予的部分不能長官為之而是經過懲戒法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16180.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16196.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
這個跟糾談大概是有點類似啦。第二個,執行的程序是在第70條啦。好,那有關這部分的話翁小玲委員先啦。是,如果說按照剛剛司長的說明的話,那其實直接依照工程法處理就好了,根本也不需要定在懲罰法裡面啊。不是,也是多此一舉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16201.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16201.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16217.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16222.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16241.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16255.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
未來懲戒法院在判軍人懲戒案件的時候,他在實體法上的選擇懲罰的種類不能夠按照工程法的懲戒種類去選,而必須要以陸海空軍懲罰法的這幾個懲罰種類去選。 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16260.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16264.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。三、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16276.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16276.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16297.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16304.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16324.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16334.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
很嚴重的就走那個陸海空軍刑法了啦那有什麼樣態可能會剝奪他的追究機遇然後會送到懲戒法院去做判定的類似的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16339.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16362.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
張大偉當時就有被彈劾,他將來彈劾就送到懲戒法院去,後來懲戒法院給他自處停職吧,免除職務,懲戒法院給他判是免除職務,但是如果將來懲戒法院可以針對他這個,可以剝奪…你現在也沒有懲戒法院的那個…有有,我跟委員報告你張大偉的那個部分,他有沒有犯法?他刑法,對,他有沒有犯法?他犯法以後會怎麼處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16365.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16370.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
法院判他刑,第一審判了8年,他離開了,他原來被押,現在被判了。現在就是說,這個行為違反刑法,刑法會判,但是也會給他糾纏,那糾纏的時候的處罰以後要適用這個法來處理,大概是這個意思。來,那個政見台委員先舉手。 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16389.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16408.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
我想請教的就是說因為這個懲戒跟懲罰這是兩個不同的概念那你現在第三條裡面的規定看起來是懲戒法院去這個去審理有關於軍人的彈劾案然後卻要適用現在軍懲罰裡面的種類 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16415.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16438.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
那為什麼要這麼做,那你原來的工程法就可以了啊?我跟委員報告,原來譬如像休職,好多年前為了那個直升機的那個個案,那個被送到彈劾了之後,當時叫工程會,工程會給他懲罰叫休職,休職我們軍人沒有這個種類,沒有這個種類就很難做,軍人有官職役。所以也就是說應該要去修工程法而不是修在軍程法?不是,我跟委員報告, |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16440.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16463.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
很早期之前就已經爭論過軍人如果被彈劾到底應該是進懲戒法院還是由權責長官來做處罰這個很早在民國38、39年就有一個很有名的案子但是到司法院釋字262號解釋出來的時候當時也是有一個個案有一個長官被彈劾了彈劾完了之後後來我們有去翻那個相關的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16464.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16477.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
最後結論是那位被彈劾的高階長官最後決定說既然彈劾了尊重監察院所以說就把被彈劾的案件就送到當時叫工程會現在叫懲戒法院來做處理因為262號解釋已經有寫了 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16479.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16480.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16495.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16497.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16517.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16518.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16534.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16551.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
判了幾個我個人認為比較嚴重的錯誤啦就是你把刑事的偵查又跟刑事偵查調查跟行政的調查又混在一起很多看起來就是便宜刑事你明明應該是要做兩套不同的這個法制可是你卻又混為一談這會讓人家感到就錯亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16558.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16578.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
馬慧媛在陸海空軍刑法裡面其實你已經有可以剝奪退出給予的部分,如果他有罪的話那是國安法、貪污法什麼的相關的對,就是有一些如果你犯了相關的法或者你在刑法裡面其實你都會剝奪這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16580.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16591.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。五、陸海空軍懲罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
16610.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
16623.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
可軍人也會被糾纏,被糾纏之後一樣送到懲戒法院。懲戒法院以往可能就按照一般公務員去勾,後來發現公務員的工作樣態跟軍人不一樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
16629.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
16649.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
作出公務員修職和軍人沒有修職這個項目,作出這個裁處等於沒有處罰。所以他們現在有經過修法的共識,司法院認為到懲戒法院處理的時候,要勾拿幾種處罰,就根據這個法來寫。所以我們今天把他拿掉,他以後就勾不到。這個就是在刑法跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
16651.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
16675.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
檢察院糾談之間適用的法律。」這是我們現在憲法的體力所以如果我們今天在這個法裡面把這些處罰項目拿走之後將來檢察院就某一個將領或某一個軍官糾談送懲戒法庭的時候他就勾不到這個處罰項目所以這個大概是現在目前五權憲法的架構下的一個處理方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
16679.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
16699.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
對你們法院應該要去修工程法啊你們是認為說現在工程法裡面只有針對文職文職的公務員有這樣的一個懲戒的類型然後沒有針對武官軍人武官那所以你們要去修工程法然後去增加那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
16700.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
16701.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具、「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
16716.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
16720.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
公懲法是廣義公務員公務員報告關於軍人懲罰或懲戒種類的選擇陸海空軍懲罰法有十幾二十條的定義不管是針對不同的軍人有不同的懲罰這個算是蠻龐大的我們公務員懲戒法主要是針對公務員當然以前有包含軍人的懲罰都可以適用公懲法這一塊既然 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
16745.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
16768.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
這部法律現在我們審這部法律竟然已經比較對公務員對軍人的懲罰部分已經細緻化了那我們認為說放在這個陸海空軍懲罰法其實會比放在公務員懲戒法還適合不然的話公務員懲戒法這邊突然長出一大塊完全規範軍人的那其實是在體力上其實蠻蠻蠻奇怪的我們又說後來要把他送到懲戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
16771.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
16793.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
對,所以才認為說為了讓那個懲戒法院在判的時候,像那個昭偉剛剛講的,能夠勾選出適合的懲戒種類,所以在這部分剝奪減少退出給予這部分,還是可以讓懲戒法院來維持。各位同仁,我們是不是收斂一下,因為我們真的現在就在處理陸海空軍的懲罰法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
16794.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
16796.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
16802.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
16806.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
16830.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
16834.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
詢問一下,就是說如果剛剛提到的是以張大偉的這個案例,那他如果被判刑確定以後,他是不是也可以剝奪他的退出給予?他如果判刑確定也可以嗎?那你不是就有了嗎?可是你大部分的懲罰法是一般沒有那麼重的耶。你今天如果張大偉那個被判刑確定一年以上,他還是要被剝奪他的退出給予啊。所以你為什麼是把他放在這個… |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
16859.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
16862.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
我們一直在講說懲罰法裡面其實他一般的態樣是比較沒有那麼嚴重就是他不是犯法的這樣的一個狀況所以你把退出給予要給人家你現在成績法院你也沒有辦法去判定說他是不是可以大到去剝奪他的退出給予而是監察院彈劾以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
16884.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
16888.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
16911.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
16912.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
16928.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
16938.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具、「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
16958.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
16959.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
16977.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
16979.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17003.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17020.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
公務人員懲戒法,就我們現在事務上的解釋來講,它本來就已經包含了文官、武官嘛,的這個公務員。就是說,就它後面的執行的部分,那個司法院或者法律司再說明一下,因為這個我們在這邊正面這個,我們這個法到底還要不要往下修下去的問題喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17022.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17037.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
這個很重要嗎?司法院再說明一下其實如果對於該怎麼處理大家都有一定的共識的話那只是差別在於修正工程法或者是修正陸海空軍懲罰法的話我覺得未來可以再討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17039.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17041.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
處理法草案案案件。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17057.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17059.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17077.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17093.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
我們這一個陸海空軍的懲罰法當然大部分還是要處理現在在處理的是有關剝奪退休給予這個比較重大部分那原來這整個罰則樣態跟專章都是要由懲戒法庭來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17094.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17095.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
相關處罰法部分條文修正草案。三、行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17110.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17111.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、行政院函請審查：一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17140.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17145.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具軍人權益事件處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。六、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17168.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17197.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
那這裡面可能沒有注意到還是我這個這個看不清楚還是怎麼樣我們先看第三條小小的一點第三條的第二項第三條行政院版的《公務員懲罰法》第24條規定以軍人之為私行為到底要用為私還是為記小小的意見以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17203.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17204.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17223.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17242.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
這個沒有,因為沒有主條就沒有機會討論了,所以有,主條念的時候我們都不在了。因為這裡引用的是工程法第24條。又說這是工程法的規定,所以我就說為什麼會感到體力很混亂。因為這個當初在討論的時候就討論非常久,我們有幾件事情是改變不掉的,第一個, |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17243.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17259.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
被監察院彈劾的案件是一定要進以前的工程會、未來的承接法院。」這是大法官26號解釋已經講了這個是第一個大法官會議室放那邊沒辦法改變第二個第三條要調整的事情是什麼第三條要調整的事情是 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17260.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17284.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
因為工程法當初在修我機場的第二條和第三條他把軍人包進去了也就是說在工程法裡面他就會24條規定什麼就是9隻等以下的公務員單位可以直接移送那過去就有別的行政機關就一直在講說你軍人上銷以下這些違紀行為因為他原來他的條文寫著違實我們這邊是引用他的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17284.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17285.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17302.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17320.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
有機關一直在說你國防部是不是在逃避你不願意把人送到懲戒法院去你不願意怎麼樣所以說他們要求我們一定要把人通通往懲戒法院送第一個懲戒法院案量處理有限第一個是案量的問題軍人的危機行為很多的第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17320.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17322.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17341.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17366.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
就由部隊來處理,因為262號沒有辦法去跟動他,所以說軍人的所有的違紀行為,如果你被彈劾了就進懲戒法院,懲戒法院就按照這些相關的種類來做,沒有被彈劾的人部隊長就直接按懲罰法來處理。所以就是說以後九支等以下的就沒有所謂的軍人懲戒的部分嗎?對。是不是?對。那你為什麼不修工程法呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17369.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17383.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
懲罰法是國防部主管。我知道,所以這個部分我就還是在講,就還是司法院帶過失職。我們還是釐清一下,剛才沈司長所提的就是說,如果我們原來都走懲戒法的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
17384.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
17400.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
我們會有本來部隊處理的違紀行為通通要丟到那邊第一個等他處罰完這個人才有辦法調動那個曠日廢食那個處理不完那個部隊根本這個人就完了等你懲戒法庭處理這個人就只能冰在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
17401.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
17403.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
17416.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
17417.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
處理法草案案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
17435.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
17435.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
17451.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
17454.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
我今天還對還是在工程會因為你是針對那個是比較嚴重的那個已經是嚴重的我就說你剛剛舉的那個案例除非你其他的很普遍的都會發生在你的懲罰法裡面必須要去執行的那才有意義啊不然你為了你剛剛提到的張大偉的案子他就是以後舉例啦我就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
17474.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
17474.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
17485.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
17490.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
我建議就是說本來他就應該要分流啊就是說我們今天陸海空軍懲罰法裡面規定相關的就是說可能比較輕的一些好比較因為就案子這麼多嘛對不對好他案子很多然後那如果說送到工程會裡面的話那緩不濟急不可能那一些可能比較輕的相關的法則我們在這裡訂定但他如果今天他涉及到真的很嚴格的比如說剛講了好幾個喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
17513.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
17520.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
撥奪或減少、退出、給予 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行為 行為很嚴重的行 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
17528.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
17544.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
所以我們並不是說今天在陸海空軍懲罰法裡面不能規定懲罰而是應該把它分流就小的各種的案子我們很平常會用到常常有的我們還是規定在這裡但是比較嚴重的部分我們還是應該要回到公務人員懲戒法裡面去謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
17547.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
17547.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
17563.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
17566.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
17584.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
17587.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
修正草案案 案 。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
17615.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
17621.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
處理法草案案。三、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
17632.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
17659.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬具這個完整配套我不敢說完美就是說剛才各位委員提的去走工程法那也是一個方法這兩個方法我不認為哪個好哪個不好可是現在這個配套已經嫁接到軍中的文化軍中懲戒的方式然後呢裡面從一般的處罰一直到要經過工程會過去的工程會現在的懲罰法停經過彈劾的處理他都把他體系架構好也就是說這樣處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
17660.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
17662.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。四、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
17686.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
17701.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
不放在軍懲罰裡面,另外去由工程法那邊去增加一個專章針對軍人,也是一個方法。但是我會建議說,我們已經在審這套法,這法已經在那邊談很久了。如果能夠保障權益, |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
17702.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
17705.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
處理法草案案。五、陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
17723.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
17725.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。五、本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
17745.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
17746.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
17762.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
17778.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
我也建議保留因為你們在這個像第19條裡面寫到了這個軍官的懲罰裡面包含什麼呢?撤職、降節、繼過那包含你的比如說你退伍金、退休奉你都一併拔掉然後列在這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
17779.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
17780.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
事件處理法草案案。三、行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
17803.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
17821.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
受到剝奪,我們今天坐在這裡修法,我們就會覺得很對不起大家,所以我還是建議保留。按照工程法剝奪跟按照軍程法剝奪都是依法剝奪,只是用哪個法來處理比較好。我們今天先討論到這裡,剩餘的部分我們明天繼續討論。我們暫時休會,謝謝。我們休息,明天上午9點準時開會。 |