| IVOD_ID |
158912 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158912 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
27 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-16T11:37:19+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-16T11:52:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:05 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e6909b4ca57c0612109beb172f345eae29ae781c7e1649b47f84d4c48a885b85ead3c9815bd815b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:37:19 - 11:52:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長、國防部部長、大陸委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、交通部、經濟部、數位發展部、海洋委員會海巡署報告「針對海底電纜係國家對外重要通訊手段，為避免中共利用各種灰色地帶手段測試我國網路及電網韌性情事發生，如何建立有效備援系統以支援軍事作戰並支撐基礎建設防護韌性」，並備質詢。） |
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請局長和副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
7.401 |
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好 局長國安非常重要我們一起努力捍衛中華民國的安全那今天早上很多委員也都有關心本席之前也看到就說有網紅就講是說在台灣地區台中跟新北居然可以辦中國大陸的身份證 拘留證有沒有看到這個新聞有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
32.025 |
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查出來了沒?在新北跟台中的哪裡?都有掌握在哪邊?不只這兩個地方,還有其他地方還有其他地方,還有包括哪些?還有包括雲林燈高雄那有沒有請執法單位去偵辦?有,我們在掌握相關的情資之後,我們會做一些確認那相關的收證比較完整,我們會通報到要掌握多久?那到底在新北已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
54.568 |
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新北市本席的選區本席的縣市我們沒有辦法接受說這些人是哪邊來的是中國大陸的人士還是台灣人士在那邊辦理的目前的案情看起來主要都還是國人台灣的人士有的甚至在網路上有一些推宣這樣的相關的申辦中國政見的一些宣傳活動那這些是合法的嗎 |
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82.724 |
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94.563 |
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當然沒有 他有可能會...當然是非法吧 是吧是那有觸犯我國相關法令那到目前我們國安單位還在掌握都掌握 已經都掌握了是啊 但我現在想說多久時間了 |
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96.404 |
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大概存在多久如果說沒有這個網紅告訴我們我們可能都還不知道但是國安局跟我們講說有掌握所以我想請教你們掌握多久了大概是在前一陣子這個議題出來之後我們有做一個比較全面的了解所以你們是在網紅告訴我們說原來新北跟台中有這樣之後國安局才動起來去掌握還是網紅講之前你們就已經知道 |
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對於中共在台灣的一些維議場或違法的活動本來就有在討論但是對於剛剛委員所提到的 |
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127.799 |
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151.615 |
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我現在講的是說是網紅告訴我們因為以往我們都認為說至少我們台灣本土是安全的不可能有人突然間中國大陸還可以來我們這邊設辦事處還可以來這邊來辦身份證還有網紅委員聳聽講說有20萬的國人都已經有拿到中國大陸的身份證如果真的是屬實的話我們又有辦法接受啊那一樣的道理啊 |
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152.996 |
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如果有20萬人那就代表是說他存在的時間已經有一段了那我們國安單位在幹什麼要跟委員說明一下我們居然放任他在新北台中還有你剛剛講雲林是不是 |
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167.572 |
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195.328 |
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還有哪邊有一些地方都有看到這樣的一個狀況那跟委員說明一下我們情報單位來講有這個情資我們必須要做比較詳細的一個確認是嗎所以我現在請教的到底是那沒有的話情資非常的多非常非常的多局長所以你還是沒有回答我嗎有我在回答的是你不要迴避我的問題我現在這樣請教的是說那到底我們掌握的是就如同你剛剛講原來不只新北不只台中還有其他縣市那我們現在偵辦的狀況怎麼樣 |
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198.591 |
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212.156 |
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第一時間我們在有這個情資之後我們必須要做一些確認這是我一直在跟委員說明的否則情資非常的多那一旦有比較確認的情資我們當然就會也送到檢調單位那有的已經都有跟調查局這邊在做一些討論所以什麼時候會破獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
215.564 |
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242.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這可以講吧?什麼時候可以破獲?什麼時候可以查締?要尊重司法機關後續查辦的狀況要尊重司法機關後續查辦的狀況你不是講說這是非法的機關嗎?當然當然就非法機關你現在還可以放任他對國家安全情報機關我們沒有辦法去指揮司法警察單位正辦的過程或速度我現在講的是說我們難道那到底他來多久時間我們難道可以放任他我不知道是長達半年一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
242.839 |
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264.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那我們難道可以放任他半年一年在做非法的工作這沒有違反國安法沒有 因為你要注意到的是他在所謂宣導或是要去推宣辦理中國大陸的政見他在網路上的用語是什麼有沒有違反到我們相關的法律的規定那你必須要有這樣的比較具體的證據你才有辦法來啟動檢調單位的調查那這也是為什麼我們有個情資處理的過程否則委員剛剛所提到的資訊我知道委員報告是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
271.266 |
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276.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
提到很多資訊這些資訊非常的高網紅講的信誓旦旦是說到那邊還可以直接辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
277.967 |
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305.984 |
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對 那我們尊重網紅他反映的意見但這不是對於我們來講可以辦案的不是 我們所以我們國安單位好 來這樣子啦局長我比較直接請教國安單位掌握的狀況是比網紅講的還要嚴重還是要輕微看哪一部分那就所謂的國人申辦對案的身份證的部分來講的話二十萬人是太誇張了我們目前掌握的案例已經都移送到內政部來做處理所以我們現在移送了幾案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
307.062 |
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326.402 |
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都已經移送了有十幾案所以不是二十萬是十幾個是不是我們掌握的有十幾案那調查局也有掌握一些案例那國安局跟調查局都已經有通報到相關的單位來處理所以其實不要局長拜託啦不要說連在國會殿堂裡面有一說一有二說二啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
326.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
354.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
不要說這個網紅喔是跟可能跟我們執政黨這比較親近的連網紅講這麼嚴重渲染的事情也不敢反駁啦沒有我們剛剛已經有說要把網紅的資訊要做過濾來我請教一下那另外今天感謝昭偉排這個案件海底電染的部分本席很關心我也不認為是說如果發生斷纜的話那其實很嚴重是依國安局報告是每年平均七到八次對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
355.089 |
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381.859 |
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那到那麼多次的一個毀損啊剛剛也有委員在詢問啊就說如果說是在公海的話我們是比較沒有執法的一個管轄範圍那即便是在我們的領海的部分我們到目前為止一年平均七到八次近三年我就這樣算一下這是你的數字啊二十四五次是不是有 應該有好 二十四五次那我們有要求找出兇手並且要求賠償有幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
382.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
391.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
有這部分我看剛剛的海巡署跟中華電信都有提供一些數據跟資料我是不是請那個海巡署來簡單說明一下好不好我們要求賠償幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
393.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
421.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們收到現在有數據的話已經有求償成功就兩次舉例在110年7月24號四十三共和國五順輪破案海底電檔我們掏銀件登檢代案回來那中華電信相關電話移給中華電信成功求償810萬好有上案的那另外呢另外的話我們有進三年國安局講說平均每年七到八次就是進三年二十四五次那這二十四五次裡面我們有求償幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
424.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
431.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有的收信之後後續陸續在求償中還沒有定案相關數據現在告訴我說我們求償來為什麼我會問這個問題局長還是一樣你們今天的報告告訴我們其實都已經兇手都已經找到了就萬樂的中共 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
447.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
467.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
不是嗎 你們每一個都講是萬惡的中共 移招中共拖網漁船作業損毀移招中共貨輪下茅作業損毀啊既然兇手找到了 為什麼不敢跟他求償對 這部分來講沒有提出半次耶 二十四五次是你講的結果你到目前為止有提半次嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
468.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
492.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在國際跟國內海南只要遭到損毀的話那相關的數據統計我們顯示的是多數都是由中共的傳播來造成的影響那我知道說中共的傳播我沒有辦法接受今天是中共的傳播今天是任何國家的傳播只要迫害我國的海底電纜是我國的財產嘛不管是中華電線財產不管是它也是我國財產那我們來協助來做球場或是我們來協助要求追回元兇 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
494.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
521.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
結果咧到目前為止沒有辦事啊這應該尊重我們的相關電信公司這不是尊重我們相關的你已經找出兇手了然後結果我們那我請教我們電信公司為什麼沒有求償對我各位說明一下第一個這是電信公司的財產那一旦遭到財產的破壞它會由司法機關來做檢舉司法機關才會做查證它的過程是這樣陸委會國安局告訴我們是說過去三年24、5次我就算是24次啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
523.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
526.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
24次然後國安局今天全講了都是萬惡中共 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
528.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
553.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我們身為跟中國大陸的一個對口的一個機關啊有沒有透過有沒有找到國安局或是說相關單位請你們跟中國大陸講要求求償把我們的海底電纜毀損的修復有沒有我們只有進一步的去跟相關單位了解狀況但是要有具體的事證跟調查結果之後然後可能才能夠透過路回去他們沒有提供事證給你嗎他今天寫的那麼斬釘截鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
555.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
583.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是萬樂的中共啊那怎麼沒有提供給我們大陸委員會去球場現階段來講給大陸委員會去有底氣的去跟對岸拍板啊敢破壞我們的電纜我不允許啊怎麼樣有沒有跟委員報告目前還沒有所以可能相關的這個案件可能有些是在調查中過去三年了耶調查癥結的這個部分一年平均八次三年二十四次 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
585.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
595.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那24次我們沒藥沒勁橫向聯繫沒有作為那我覺得副主委你很無辜啦算是無辜啦來 局長來 中華電信 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
599.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
616.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
斷了二十幾次沒有跟人家求償半次都已經講了海嵐故障原因有很多種除了可能被破壞之外也有它自己劣化造成的所以次數這麼多不見得每次都是您是中華電信的總經理 是不是林總林總 沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
621.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
645.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們今天外交國防委員會開那麼重要的報告我們看到國安局給我們那麼重要的一個書面報告裡面沒有講到海底電纜劣化啊他全都講的是萬樂的中共啊他講的是這一次啊不是他不是講這一次你看一下他講1234四次2022年3月到4月台馬3號被抽砂船作業損毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
647.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
662.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
2021年8月 台軍2號被中共拖網漁船作業損毀這我跟各位說明一下 這我們有統計過啦大概國際跟國內海難段的狀況一半以上都是中國集船隻比較有可疑啦那有沒有去求償 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
663.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
687.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
偵辦過程當中 他要是現行犯的話 比較容易來求償但大部分的案例 他只能夠用疑似你沒有再現行犯來逮捕到他的話 後續的市政的查查是比較不容易的即便是公海我們沒有管轄權 那有國際法庭啊海洋法有國際法庭 可以來去做申訴啊我們有沒有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
690.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
711.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對 這要由電信商來提起這樣的一個球場的動作有沒有做 有沒有做 有嗎 我們有跟國際法庭不是 沒有國際法庭 但是國際聯盟有去球場那這個確實也有球場成功 案例都有但是剛才有一個條件是必須要有明確的證據 那剛才局長也提到有些事實上沒有明確證據比較難幾位 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
713.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
738.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
大家都是為中華民國來努力我今天會點出來這個問題在於兩個部分第一海底電纜很重要我承認我也同意我不容許任何人來破壞我們海底電纜不管是有意無意如果說真的是中共的話該求償要求償該捍衛要捍衛該表達要表達該抗議要抗議一定要但是過去你們有沒有做這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
743.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
761.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第一個是求償是由企業來求償那就我們國安單位來講我們會去了解一下相關活動的危機有具體的事情才有辦法進入司法的動作你身為國安局局長我認為你掌握情報應該是全國國人最多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
762.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
786.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那你的證據你的資訊應該是最多的所以才會主要來請教您而重點在於是說如果所有破壞應該求償要求償當然如果所有證據應該提供要提供但是剛剛我請教不管是中華電信的領總不管是陸委會看起來都沒有接獲到國安局所今天所提出來的相關資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
787.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
790.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以我認為是說這是很像聯繫 很像聯繫是不是有問題不能這樣講 我們的資訊完全都建立在中華電信跟我們還有蘇發布通報的一個局長 你剛剛你們的詢答已經漏了線了 並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
802.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
821.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
實在話講我們一直在強調的是一定要有事證我實在話講當然就是要有事證啊因為大部分的案例他大部分都是事後再查證並不是現行犯問題發生在現行犯沒有錯嘛假如是現行犯的話要來進行相關的查查會比較容易你現在寫的書面報告不是那麼的明確就代表是說我先來跟委員說明他的是現行犯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
822.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
840.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
對 現行犯人當然你比較能夠來進入一個司法程序的一個偵辦跟求償但大部分確實是事後來進行相關的一個資訊我的重點在於是你可以在這邊講那麼大聲我就希望你真的把相關的證據都給不管是我們中華電信不管是我們的陸委會來任何的管道表達我們嚴正的抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
846.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
864.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
而且最重要的是不允許後續還有這樣持續的破壞電纜發生連同這一次你說這一次是誰麥卡龍卡麥隆是卡麥隆嘛對不對卡麥隆級的船艦來去做破壞我們的電纜那後續會不會有相關的球場 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
869.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
894.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
已經沒有中華電信已經報案了然後相關海巡署收集的證據也已經跟基隆地點署來進行一些呈現所以還在正辦過程當中本席身為中華民意代表我就是希望督促我們的行政官員該報案該捍衛我國權益的就一定要把握每一次的機會該上國際法庭上國際法庭這樣可以嗎好我們來努力謝謝謝謝紅夢凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
901.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
905.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
局長請回接下來我們請葉元之委員上台質詢 |