| IVOD_ID |
158885 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158885 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
26 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-15T10:29:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-15T10:38:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/427ddbb1724b1d1adddb4b8e23d49405038dfc690a7e1b064204766f4a2623bda86133156bd620685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:29:39 - 10:38:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長報告「因應世界政經局勢變化，如何在總合外交政策中，串聯僑界，匯聚海外僑力，擴增友台力量，壯大我國經貿實力」，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.73 |
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9.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
最近其實事情蠻多,不過我要追蹤一件舊的案件你看一下曾經我們在調查一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
12.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
34.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
類似霸凌或者是性騷案的時候有傳出我們僑委會的人員協助中國人違法去入境我們的友邦這個來源你應該知道了因為我們的議事錄裡面有是這個案子到目前為止你可以說明一下調查的進度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
35.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
52.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
在2023年我們在巴西的某歐姓員工確實在當地有跟中資的高階人員結交好友 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
53.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
77.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那你的結家好友的定義是什麼他除了這個相約師範去KTVPOP之外甚至他在演部開刀完還去住在他的家兩天在巴西帶就聖保羅而已啊是所以聖保羅住處我們僑委會的人員跟中國駐外人員過從甚密是 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
96.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
然後後來呢?然後這中間曾經他有計劃要去我們的邦交國旅行說中國那個官員?我們的部員跟中國的駐外人員一起相約說要出國去旅行 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
98.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
113.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那要去邦交國因為只要持有中華民國護照就不用簽證那當時確實我們的在邦交國的僑胞有接到這一位員工的聯絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
115.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
142.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那請他說可不可以開車到巴西這個邊境來接他們因為他要帶兩個朋友一起過去那僑胞就問他說兩個朋友是誰他說不是台灣人也不是台僑那他就問他說那是哪一國的他說是中國的可不可以請這個因為中國要到巴拉圭是需要辦理簽證的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
144.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
163.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那他說如果他因為可以帶著他們一起過去的話他就不需要再去辦正式簽證所以簽這中華民國護照就不用簽證了嗎當然不行所以他等於是在要求我們僑胞要去做違法的事情這有點像偷渡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
163.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
172.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
就是你沒有旅行文件然後過海關閃一下我們中華民國免簽的護照因為一般來說他之所以要求我們僑胞開過去是因為剛好我們邦交國附近的這個東方市呢很多僑胞在當地做生意那他們是在兩岸他們在兩邊兩輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
184.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
187.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
他們都有通行證所以他們通行證的車輛進出的時候就不需要檢查這個護照旅行文件所以他才會去拜託在巴拉圭的僑胞說開車過來接他們過去他只要坐上他的車可能在邊境他就不會被檢查對就過去了最後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
207.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
235.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
最後這個旅行的案子後來沒有執行那沒有執行這件事情本來也不會曝光可是因為歐案的這個所謂性騷擾案在媒體大量曝光以後就有這個當地的僑胞因此給我們這個資訊相關人就揭露了這件事情對我們才知道有這個事情那對這件事情僑委會怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
252.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那因為除了這件事情以外還有就是在巴西當地的僑胞陸續都有在我們的民意信箱據名檢舉就是同仁有跟中資的人員過程甚密交友 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
253.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
273.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
的情況因此我們在性騷擾案正式立案調查結果出來以後隔年因為檢舉的資料一直持續不斷進來因此我們最後也同樣立案調查我想謝謝委員長其實這些事情都調查完畢了嘛是的當事人也有沒有承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
274.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
298.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們都有給當事人這個陳述的機會就這整個案子在2023、2024其實是原來有一些檢舉函在檢舉別人後來沒想到寫檢舉函的當事人反而被揭露了這件事情這是兩個獨立的案件一個是MeToo案件後來那個MeToo案件也經過調查完整你們是確認沒有進行懲處相關懲處那是另外一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
298.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
325.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
是的但這個案件其實比那個案件我認為更嚴重嚴重性比較大對因為有的是財道法律有的我們要考量說我們館內的機密是他過從聖祕當中而且在這當中包括我們辦的美食展從來沒有過中國的中資高階的人參加或者知道我們的活動居然在當年度的8月由這個歐元所負責的這個案子居然出現了五個中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
326.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
353.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
高階的人員出現因此在橋界也引起划然所以這個案子我們也是立案調查我今天為什麼要特別問這件事情這不能只有划然而已這一位歐元歐姓的我們橋委會的駐外人員他跟中共當地的官員互動這麼緊密甚至於出現我們國家跟僑胞辦的活動中國找到管道滲透進來而且剛好就他辦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
354.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
375.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這裡面有沒有洩漏國防機密以外的罪這是一個法律問題第二個利用他擔任我們僑委會官員的身份他會遭到我們僑胞嘛他等於是拉著我們僑胞去幫中共的官員進到我們邦交國巴拉圭雖然因為僑胞警覺性高沒有去執行算未遂犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
391.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是這個行為在觀念上毫無國家安全外交人員該有的基本的界限沒有第二個其實是目無法際他在幫助中國的官員偷渡過去萬一偷渡成功然後這個僑胞沒空不載他回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
393.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
421.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那兩個官員是怎樣準備滯留在巴拉圭被逮捕會引起國際事件那個事件如果發生巴拉圭逮捕了中國外交人員非法入境然後一作證說沒有是中華民國台灣幫我進來的這兩位是中資人員你是中資的幹部就中國那邊的那一旦非法入境被巴拉圭逮捕的話是他作證講實話是確實會引起國際事件是中華民國的外交人員幫我偷渡進來的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
422.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
439.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這是很嚴峻的這個其實對我們國家聲譽跟各方面影響你們有沒有移送相關單位以法律的成本我們做了行政調查之後我們正式立案做行政調查之後這是為什麼觸犯了國家安全的這條界線我們記憶大過的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
446.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那有沒有移請司法相關的資料目前還沒有移送因為相關的資料我們也有請示外交部以及陸委會針對說與中資的人員往來的這個相關的定義那後續因為我們還在打委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
459.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
486.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第一個是因為他還在提在審當中所以我們未來一定會做行政但是他已經在聯繫我們台灣在巴拉圭的橋裡過界到巴西在這兩個沒有旅行證件的中國人偷渡的方式要進入巴拉圭但沒有成功這是一個法律案件他辦的活動跟中方的人員不管叫中資人員或中方的駐地人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
487.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
516.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
互動緊密之後他們出現在我們國家的活動裡面這一塊有沒有洩密的部分我建議就是僑委會99.99的人大家入力從功 謹守分際你不能因為有一個這樣的行為就大家被質疑所以我認為標準的做法就是依請司法檢調你們去查沒有事還他清白他就是行政違規有事該法辦就法辦否則駐外人員天高皇帝遠他剛才那種事情都敢做 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
517.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
543.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
根據墨菲定律我都懷疑不是第一次要不然他怎麼想出這個方法搞不好有成功過我們不知道這個要讓調查單位調查好不好我是建議這樣處理那這一個案子我為什麼等一段時間才來追蹤就是等你們所有行政成員走完了我們也不要冤枉人我名字我也不揭露出來見面依法辦理這樣好不好好的謝謝委員關心好謝謝謝謝王定宇召委委員長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
550.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
政政前政政前政政前委員不在 |