| IVOD_ID |
15888 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15888 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-22-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-08T08:30:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-08T12:41:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:10:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d35675eb71f9bc6ae8bd03a951da4504b3be8d109af184be4d59d00fecb541aa15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席就「回首百年放眼未來-故宮定位與部會級博物館公共責任總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:14 - 12:41:00 |
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報告委員會出席委員14人以達法定人數現在開會首先我們進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議事錄時間中華民國113年4月29日上午9時至12時38分中華民國113年5月2日上午9時至12時54分地點本院群嫌樓一林會議室出席委員萬美玲委員等15人內席委員謝龍介委員等31人 |
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1822.311 |
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內行委員．4月29日．文化部中務次長王石思．率同有關人員．教育部體育署署長鄭世忠．內政部警政署行事警察局警政監林明佐．防護部檢察司副司長簡美惠．金融建築管理委員會銀行局組長劉萬基．數位發展部數位產業署副署長林俊秀．行政院主席總署公益三處專門委員李一柔．5月2日教育部部長潘文忠．同有關人員．主席科交集委員志恩． |
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4月29日報告事項一宣讀上次會議事務決定事務確定二文化部教育部內政部法務部金融監督管理委員會數位發展部及行政院主席總處列席就表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫相關單位取締防範及執法成效進行專題報告．並備質詢 |
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1869.856 |
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1894.944 |
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本議程由委員萬美玲等22人提出質詢。據經文化部政務司長王石思、教育部體育署署長鄭世忠及相關人員提起答覆說明。另由委員林倩琦等3人提出書面質詢。決定依依報告及詢討完畢。2.委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報。3.對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或危及答覆部分。請相關機關盡速以書面答覆。通過臨時提案一項。5月1日報告事項。 |
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| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1912.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
教育部列席就偏遠地區學校教育發展條例施行迄今之成效及檢討進行專題報告．並備質詢討論事項審查依委員柯之安等18人凝聚偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第8條條文修正查案等4案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1913.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1940.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
．進行詢答．本議程採綜合詢答．由委員萬美琳等21人提出質詢．促進教育部部長潘文忠及相關人員即席答覆說明．另由委員黃珊珊等2人提出書面質詢．決議一報告及詢答完畢．二委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入紀律並刊登公報．三對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分．請相關機關介述以書面答覆．四偏遠地區學校教育發展條例相關修正草案．面對其繼續審查．通過臨時提 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1946.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1966.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好,由於這個在場委員不夠一決,人數三人,所以我們意識度占不確定那今天的議程是邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席就回首百年放眼未來-故宮定位與部會級博物館公共責任總檢討．來進行專案總報告．並備質詢那我們首先來介紹在場委員,萬美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1978.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1989.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
介紹與會的官員我們國立故宮博物院蕭宗煌院長還有我們黃永泰副院長余佩錦副院長現在我們就請我們蕭院長進行報告報告時間12分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2004.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2024.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主席 您召委 各位委員先進 大家好首先請就大院教育及文化委員會令人對本院的施政跟預算的支持與指正表達最誠摯的謝意以下請就國立故宮博物院回首百年放眼未來故宮定位與部會級博物館社會責任總檢討進行專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2029.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2049.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
全員．故宮成立嚴格及定位．本院於民國十四年十月十一於大陸北京正式成立．三十七年故宮文物必營中央博物院籌備處．中央研究院實驗所．中央圖書館北平圖書館等各機關．至文物來到臺灣．五十四年國立故宮博物院新館在臺北外雙溪開館 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2051.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2069.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
以行政院組織法第8條及國立故宮博物院組織法規定本院為行政院狹屬部會同級中央二級之博物館設立宗旨為整理保管展出所藏之歷代古文物及藝術品並加強對文物藝術品保存徵集研究殘養等使命 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2070.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2094.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
本院依行政院人事總署建議進行最適組織形態委託研究計畫以110年就業完成研究．並提供人事總署作為政策參考．建議本院組織形態設．行政院組織改造整體規劃．未來如有組織調整．會廣納各界意見．尋求社會更多共識．在確保專業與公共性下作為決策參考． |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2095.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2119.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
2、博物館社會責任,近年來博物館面對社會處境的轉變無法置外於社會文化脈絡當博物館身處社會文化或自然等嚴峻情境時需以全新視野反思作為公共性與社會性的責任在博物館協會ICOM2022年提出新的博物館定義我想這個就請裁作大家參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2120.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2135.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
為回應2022博物館新定義本院與專業服務開放多元﹐友善共榮﹐永續發展為施政目標向公眾提供教育、社群參與及知識共享之多元﹐體驗﹐強化本院與當代博物館社會責任之連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2137.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2164.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
在故宮博物院回應當代社會責任具體成果方面一、優化文物保存、修復能量本院近70萬件典藏品、混合器物、書畫、圖書文獻三大類恆晃新時期至今8000年質量經濟的精緻收藏使本院素有華夏文物保固之稱保存、修復典藏文物為本院組織法所受最重要的公共責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2166.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2186.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們設立全國博物館唯一獨立文物保存修復部門其中包含書畫、古籍檔案、器物及織品四種類型的修復室以及文物科學檢測實驗室協助現場文物的一方性保存修復、工藝史研究、文物徵集等工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2187.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2206.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在培養修復人才．持續辦理國內外技術交流．透過新故宮計畫提升文物保存．修復及科學分析的相關的空間與設備．在培育人才109-110本院持續接受各類．文物修復實習申請．或至本院與國家未來專業人力儲備 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2209.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2223.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
充實數位典藏與數位應用本院99年開始導入意願化數的拍攝工作3D掃描那對典藏進行高解析的數位化工作也進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2223.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2235.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
Metadata資料描述將相關影像及描述資料作為一個整合建置資料庫﹐開放公眾業覽﹐積極產製文物衍生3D建模﹐數位IP或互動裝置等數位資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2240.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2267.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那在106年的話故宮開始將文物圖像導入CC創用作為一個國際範例然後開放各界使用那在政府開放資料架構下以前面開放中階及低階圖檔中階的話是600萬畫素然後低階150萬畫素然後各40萬張在open data專期免費下載不限用途包括商業使用都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2270.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2285.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
提升研究量能發展學術專業本院70年發行的故宮學術紀刊為文學歷史藝術領域的研究的重要期刊經評比為歷史邪門的核心期刊今年也榮後國家圖書館頒發精進期刊傳播獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2291.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2319.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
本院持續以國外研究單位及展覽館簽署合作備忘文目前簽署由美國胡漢基金會﹐香港城市大學﹐法國遠東學院﹐法國蓋布朗利博物館﹐法國巴黎中世藝術博物館﹐德國海德堡大學﹐跨文化研究中心及蒙古學術院等所要以推動國際合作研究﹐例如112人參與英國研究院講座研究計畫﹐全球召集計畫﹐中國全球知識等 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2321.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2334.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是跨域文化疆界引起觀眾共鳴本院典藏文物作為國家核心文化資產是國際建基於爭取合作交流對象藉由戶外辦理指標性的國際展拓展各類國際交流強化與國際博物館進行多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2338.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2360.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
的交流：帶動臺灣博物館群的策展能力．厚實我國文化外交影響力．及展現臺灣文化展實力．在國際交流方面的話．國際介展113年就是要推出．大美不言國立故宮博物院．與巴黎中世藝術博物館及幻科雅堡的典藏精粹展．南院會辦理萬國金娘東亞海上的琉球特展． |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2361.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2384.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
另外我國出國辦理的展覽114年明年9月會在捷克布拉谷國家博物館推出故宮文物百選及故事特展是院長文物首次在捷克展出,包含多寶閣清明山河圖等文物另外明年11月會在法國凱布朗利博物館辦理龍的特展 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2385.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2412.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
另外聯結地方廣所共享文化資源109 111年於彰化縣立美術館即辦故宮國寶由彰化故宮文物成以新媒體藝術展112年至113年以台南市美術館即辦千載藍紅故宮國寶抵台南特展展出故宮翠玉白菜等人氣國寶﹐搭配驗本清明上河圖長卷動畫等數位作品 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2414.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2439.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
在新媒體藝術部分,我們也把他送到國內外,包括103年前東草新媒體藝術展到法國巴黎展出,104年在意大利佛羅倫斯十字教堂舉辦意義漫遊新媒體藝術展,108年於泰國曼谷合成藝術中心辦理清明山河圖數位展,112年於東京九七年辦理台灣形象展 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2442.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2456.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
5.本院在長期推動文化平權﹐友善共榮﹐秉持博物館教育理念﹐促進文化資源的可敬性﹐提供各族群享有文化潛質﹐擴大參與的管道﹐並以學習者為中心規劃多元教育推廣活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2457.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2480.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
以偏鄉為例,偏鄉教育串聯管計合作,108年策辦故宮友誼市協子海灣參訪北部院區,南院辦理百萬遊子幼幼博物館的專案計畫,邀請全國高中職以下偏鄉及離島學生參訪本院南北院區,藉由前額保險安排交通、車輛、住宿,提供專人保險活動。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2482.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2501.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那這個活動的話,其實我們也集結社會的資源,譬如說我們找到那個臺北市龍山市,名甲龍山市跟那個股票博物館,就集保中心,結保結算所,共同攜手攜手的話,就是他贊助我們的經會,然後我們來邀請這些學生到故宮來 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2504.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2519.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
104年其執行開發Steam創新教案．以創擴模範列車、行軌各縣市、左右偏鄉及教育優先區、界階各縣市教育體系、擴大故宮資源受眾,建置數位藝術教育支援平台,導入藝術教育現場。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2522.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2543.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
各別化信心障礙需求．依障礙者特質及需求規劃．服務活動專案．聽、聾、共賞．所謂導覽活動．採取聾人、聽障者與聽人．共同參與的形式．由本院導覽志工與專業．所謂歡迎演．搭配解說保障聾人文化的禁用權．回應高齡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2545.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2571.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
全球高齡化2025的話臺灣也要邁入高齡化的一個社會本願與臺北榮總跨域合作為國內首創一個博物館與國家級醫療中心深度合作以故宮典藏結合醫療開發金牌人生認知牌卡以非藥物介入活動助動失智者的照顧因為透過懷舊情感跟生命對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2572.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2576.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
促使長者認知的功能增進人際的互動 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2577.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2604.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
另外在招募志工部分故宮提供免費導覽志工是故宮典藏最豐沛的博物館志工人數及規模可觀藍白院都有志工隊除了培訓成人志工外亦持續培小志工、高中志工、大專志工及校園大使鼓勵年輕世代透過志願服務參與博物館 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2605.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2625.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
另外在故宮．因為形塑故宮品牌價值本院擁有世界級文物的藝術典藏是國際品牌廠商開發奉配的資源全球國際化的品牌有合作的既有Nine Friends、Sloombee、Disney還有Coco力克雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2626.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2648.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
另外要彰顯臺灣精神支持臺灣本土產業本院與國內相關單位聯手打造臺灣精品MIT專欄比如說與經濟部中小企業BIPOWER然後另外的話故宮臺灣好漁另外與宜蘭縣文化局合作宜蘭靜候專欄另外的話跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2651.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2674.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
龍業部 延伸臺灣亮點茶莊的合作計畫．目前有14家納入本院品牌授權的一個機制．最後本院將故宮珍貴文物定位為．人類所共享的歷史文化瑰寶．本院公共化的作為．從典藏研究展覽教育公共服務等過程．經為促進社會各界參與拉近本院與社群的溝通與連結． |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2676.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2680.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
近年經歷新冠疫情的挑戰本院努力重建與國內外觀眾連結之際 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2685.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2710.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
實際紋路為立基點．後時保存修復及研究能量．強化展覽交流．以多角度經營品牌為新象．以無疆界的文化轉實力立足於全球．讓國立故宮博物院品牌．不只是台灣的故宮．亞洲的故宮．更成為世界的故宮以上的報告．敬請各位委員給予執政．並盼委員繼續給予支持謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2714.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2724.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 謝謝蕭院長的口頭報告那我們來介紹我們到場的立法委員我們柯智恩召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2727.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2744.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 所以我們現在已達三人了我們來確定議事錄那上次的會議議事錄有錯誤跟遺漏之處好 沒有 那我們議事錄確定那我們現在進行詢答每位出席委員只需6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2745.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2769.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘．發言登記截止時間為10點30分．委員若臨時停案也請於上午10點30分前提出．並與本會委員．范雲委員質詢．結束後我們來立即處理．處理提案時若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場．與人力不予處理．首先我們請發言登記第一位萬美玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2776.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2776.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
蕭宗煌議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2802.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2823.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好 院長早我想院長故宮兩年前才發生了其實大家都很心痛的就是文物毀損的一個事件那之後呢還有這個高階土壤外流等等這個就是可以說舉國觀星那當然你們也被監察院舉報而且本席看了一下根據監察院的網站顯示這個糾舉就是你被監察院糾舉糾正的這件事情到現在還沒有結案 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2832.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2848.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
基本上來講的話我們已經把報告送給監察院跟行政院所以他是一個結案狀態但是有一些後續的我們要持續改進的部分還是後續總是我們看到在這個糾結案文上面看到就是還沒有結案的狀態那 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2851.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2869.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
前面兩個這麼大的一個書師還在大家記憶遊行而昨天呢又被我們委員這個同仁來踢爆那也就是在故宮本院去年初屆國保我們的翠玉白菜給南美館點交的時候呢直接在翠玉白菜旁邊3公分的地方來簽署文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2870.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2877.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這是非常的讓我們國保完全暴露在高危險的狀態之下這個動作這個狀況這個事件就非常離譜了但是呢比較離譜的是啊貴處的處長說這個文物是算在相對的安全保護下而且說這是一個小疏失那請問一下院長這個狀況是相對的安全而且是一個小疏失嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2892.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2920.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
請您回覆一下跟委員報告一下如果委員仔細看這個照片的話基本上來講正面的玻璃是卸下了可是另外的三面玻璃都還存在那大家沒有錯就是說因為大家對於這一件紋路院長你只要回覆我啦就是現在你的吳處長說這個是相對安全跟小舒適你認同他的說法嗎還是你有糾正他的說法在博物館的一個標準作用來講院長你只要回覆本席你認同他的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2922.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2935.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
因為文路的話基本上是安全無虞的它當然就是是一個行政上的一個標準作業流程的事務好 院長本席對你現在回覆的態度跟說法非常非常的失望我們看到這張照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2939.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2964.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
你硬要講說什麼還是在玻璃框內等等我想本席郵寄在前年的時候文物打破的時候那個影帶我們大家有看到當時同仁們其實也是戰戰兢兢的在桌面上來做那些文物的一個收藏跟整理的動作但是一個不慎那個紙箱子就打開了所以就掉下來了他來不及接另外一個文物所以保住了另外一個打碎了 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2965.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2966.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以院長 這個算小疏失嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2996.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3002.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我想這個在博物館來講的話那個專業素養基本上來講還要再訓練啦因為這樣的話凸顯那個博物館的專業素養是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3006.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3029.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
院長,我想故宮的同仁一定也是視故宮的國寶為珍寶但是心態上非常的重要如果我們常常出現一些疏失也就已經非常嚴重了但心態上都還認為這個沒有什麼這個都是一個小疏失那這個就非常可怕了所以我們看到故宮南院我們也知道之前在施工之後做清潔工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3030.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3056.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那甚至於這種外包廠商的青年人員都可以很自意的就進入到這個男院裡面來那將來萬一有國寶這個遺失的時候那又要算誰的 才要出來道歉嗎好 再來呢 根據昨天晚上那我們跟這個故宮啊 了解一下你怎麼回答我的 你說過去故宮規定散落在這個各個不同的作業規範裡面的規範太多了所以同仁啊 摸不著頭緒 無所適從啊是不是 處長這樣回答嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3061.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3084.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
處長這樣回答嘛我覺得處長您的這個心態上跟觀點上很奇怪先是說我們現在我們這個做法是一個小書師那接下來又說因為故宮的這個SOP散落在很多不同的作業規範裡面所以規範太多了同仁摸不著頭緒我跟你講這種回答很誇張啦我想故宮在台副院展出都快要一甲子了你現在才把SOP材料做出來院長這合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3087.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3088.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
院長我想喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3105.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3133.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
你要儘速啦儘速好好整頓一下那再來我想這一次我們擔憂的這個翠玉白菜那你看這其實是一個危險的狀態我們要知道我們現在是不是明年我們的國寶要去捷克展出以及法國巴黎來展出那其中最重要的大概就是這個翠玉白菜這個舉世聞名那如果我們因為這個疏失翠玉白菜有所散失了你想想看我們前置的作業是不是全部大家都白浪費力氣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3134.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3160.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那院長我請教一下喔我們上一次說我們要到捷克去展出大概是明年9月明年的事情嘛大概是不是有確定嗎?大概9月份那我們有一個司法免扣押的一個修法案在今年2月8號眾議院一讀之後現在在參議院那參議院審查通過了嗎?10月份已經通過了10月份已經通過了好那這樣顯然明年我們的這個國保出訪到捷克這件事情就已經是定案了嘛對很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3161.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3161.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
現在進度如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3179.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3179.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
文化部審議過了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3193.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3194.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
文化部還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3223.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3232.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
行政院有在為故宮降級做準備所以故宮的院長遲遲到現在沒有宣布這第一個第二個我想請教一下那有徵詢過這個院長的意願了嗎沒有正式徵詢過沒有被正式徵詢過那如果徵詢了您會留下來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3242.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3254.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我覺得一年來的話我對故宮裡面的問題真的是有用心去了解那如果是說我可以再跟故宮同仁一起打拼的話我個人有這樣的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3255.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3274.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
很好 我覺得勇於這個去繼續承擔的這麼重要的職務是很棒的所以我們當然也希望剩下520不到兩個禮拜的時間現在談交接恐怕這個千頭萬緒也不可能交接那我們也希望你能夠繼續留任不過留任就面臨一個事情您有提到在剛上任的時候您也是反對故宮改立成為文化不變三級機關的您現在還是這樣的態度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3283.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3301.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
以目前來講故宮進行新故宮計畫還要改相違規進行展品的盤點以目前來講過於激烈的組織改造對故宮是不利的所以您還是反對嗎這是行政院的前者 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3302.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3318.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
好,但是您的態度之前有講說這不是好的選項我想我非常贊同您的看法因為我們知道故宮如果降級為三級機關或者獨立的行政法人最直接影響到就是預算跟原額那我們來看到您的原額的部分現在我們的預算原額是488人 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3319.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3342.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
目前按照您給我的資訊上看來還缺額有大概48個人你要知道如果今天我們降級為三級機關了那你整個員額就要在文化部底下共用那個總額到時候如果你要增加人恐怕就難上加難了那如果沒有辦法再增加人我們看到的是現在故宮限制的文物修復室就只有16人要負責70萬件的文物這樣的人是夠的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3347.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3367.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
當然不夠啦可是委員也知道就在總言而法的限制裡面的話對故宮人力來講的話是沒有辦法再增加但是目前的切額的話是因為就是因為那個改組控管然後另外的話有一些切額的話因為要考試分發所以有這樣的一個切額但是在之後的話我想他會慢慢補齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3369.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3371.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
謝謝委員我們會藉性恐懼引以為戒然後慢慢慢慢把所有的切口都補起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3399.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3399.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
蕭院長蕭院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3423.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3433.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
蕭院長早剛剛萬位委員也特別問到了關於我們新內閣的新生訓練是沒有看到你的蹤影你剛剛回覆說沒有被正式來徵詢私下有徵詢嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3439.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3453.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
私下耳語很多所以基本上應該留任的機率是蠻高的啦我現在是覺得說你常常是真的故宮被我們的卓院長跟我們的賴總統給忘掉了但是我們都不會忘掉故宮故宮是我們的最愛也是很多國人的最愛 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3453.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3454.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以發現你們那兩個才是最大的破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3477.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3477.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
院長有沒有可能? |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3497.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3500.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我告訴你啦你這種方式就是完全不對的一定是有人看不下 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3512.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3512.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這不是演進的問題 不是演進的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3534.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3534.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
蔡英文議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3554.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3562.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
因為它是一個益職的文物所以它的耐厚性比較強一點但是你有沒有做好一個像是保險還有你有沒有限制它出館的這個次數然後它多久出宮之後還要回宮啊你有沒有發現你看這個做完之後3月10號在台南美術館然後呢你在故宮還要回宮只有幾個月的時間所以這個部分來說的話你們有沒有一套最完整的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3579.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3579.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
蔡英文議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3609.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3625.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
委員長的確可是因為在我到任之前的話他已經形成一個慣例就是故宮的翠白菜的話他南北宴要輪流出差因為肉行時在台北的話白菜就要輪流出差所以我說他很忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3625.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3626.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
因為故宮有一個現場輪入的規定當然最主要是書畫類的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3652.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3653.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
因為故宮南院也是故宮所以我們不能講說故宮 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3682.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3682.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
國際局勢山洞庫房 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3701.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3728.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
跟委員報告一下就是因為現在我們在進行北宴的一個行政大樓的一個建置工作未來的話跟展品維護跟展覽無關的同仁會移到山下所以移到山下之後山洞庫房的東西就會進到研究大樓的地下室好沒關係你的最後一頁因為時間實在太短了最後一頁你竟然說為了做未來要做戰備物資儲存的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3730.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3747.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
你說地緣政治的關係戰備物資儲存請問到戰備物資是你提出來還是國安單位特別提出來的不是同仁的話他誤解用意就是說因為我們還是要準備原來的鐵箱還是要放在裡面如果說有地緣政治危險的時候那個鐵箱還是要趕快到 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3749.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3753.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所以你這個戰備物資並不是要儲存戰備的一些部分那你這邊寫戰備物資嚇死人但是我還是要請問一下為什麼會做這樣的一個聯想因為在這個我們2022年的時候惡霧戰爭爆發吳密查前院長曾經跟BBC特別提到了這是我們成立第一次戰爭應變的演練而且你諮詢了國安軍方跟警察單位請問有這樣的一回事對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3776.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3791.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
對跟委員報告因為故宮被列為重要的國土的一個相關設施所以基本上來講國土辦列管的單位所以我們每年都要做演練好那你對你們剛吳前院長非常擔心戰爭對故宮的設備的一個破壞還有被敵軍搶奪他非常擔心所以你們不管在煽動各方面的防震技術做好的準備那我請問真的要是發生的話請問下一步會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3802.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3817.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
你的寶物是放在就地放置呢?還是放到美國日本還是哪裡呢?不可能齁,沒有比故宮目前台灣沒有比故宮更安全的地方所以你完全就像馮明珠前院長說的故宮文物最安全的地方就在故宮本地 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3817.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3835.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
因為故宮基本上來講文物都在地下半地下或是山洞裡面所以相對國內其他的博物館的話我們是最安全的而且故宮當初的選擇那個地方的地形、地貌來講的話它就是有一些黃空上面的一個考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3835.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3856.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
所以對我個人來說文物的保存最重要你說在我們的這個山洞庫房當中如果它的防震係數跟山下的部分來說的話誰比較高山洞的防護係數跟因為你相信很多地方你的地震頻繁嘛你要由鄉轉貴嘛對不對所以對我個人來說文物的地方是哪個地方防震係數最高就哪個地方是最安全的這你同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3857.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3862.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我只要百分之百確定你說的戰備物資儲存這個絕對不是你們如字面上所說因為你又開始提到地緣政治又提到戰爭絕對不是放鞭炮放什麼東西戰備物資不是鞭炮好不好就已經不是鞭炮等級了院長我知道啦我形容啦我形容 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3883.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3885.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我們的鐵箱包裝器材維護工具是這樣的意思因為鐵箱文錄簽出來的話鐵箱還是要有一個地方放 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3902.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3927.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
所以說措辭請清楚一點我剛剛看助理拿回來今天把我活活的嚇死了好不好還有就是最後一個我還是要問到包括你的人力就是這個史博館裡面我們往後面史博館因為他的玻璃販賣店擋住紅牆所以讓很多人很多批評故宮現在你要加蓋玻璃我擋上黃牆之前已經被臺北市的文資局否決了如果這次再被否決院長你要不要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3929.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3945.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
基本上來講的話有四家廠商一家的話做了玻璃入口然後他竊屏重險得標了所以他報了第一次文資局不同意但是他可以再修訂修訂以後再送文資局文資局如果不同意的話我們要他變更計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3946.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3947.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這是南美館 這個不是故宮未來這是南美館 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3976.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4005.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我知道了所以我現在告訴你原來要做個故宮的這個部分裡面我只從南美館來告訴你要做個玻璃圍牆南美館已經告訴你打著傘戴著太陽眼鏡在喝下午茶因為做Ryde好不好你現在從頭到尾都要用玻璃的圍幕會不會發生同樣的狀況在所謂的這個氣候變遷的狀況之下全部用玻璃你的冷氣要開到多大才有辦法我當然知道它是南美館就是以它的例子告訴你故宮在這樣一個文化修復當中你要破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4005.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4018.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
好,我不要說破壞,你要必須要把它做一些更好的一個處理可是你現在非常的堅持要用玻璃帷幕的方法這是有很多的人是非常有意見的請好好的慎重我今天時間的關係我還是要請著院長你要慎重對於我們的故宮的保存要免嚴肅的面帶文化界每個人都在看可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4029.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4037.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我還是對玻璃帷幕非常的有意見因為你若在同樣的地方他是遮住了整個非常大的一個方向不是只有我不要以國使館錯誤的一個經驗請不要讓他自己的經驗又重新發生在我們的故宮這才是我們國家的寶物好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4055.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4056.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我想我們會以社會最大的共識來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4087.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4087.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
主席蕭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4105.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4126.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
陳委員早在開始質詢之前我想所有人都會關心關於這個翠玉白菜最近的新聞但是我們就問因為在相關的新聞稿故宮的回應是說會制定相關SOP那我們就要問這一次因為翠玉白菜所以你們發現有相關SOP不夠但是你們目前內部盤點還有沒有其他SOP是不足的 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4127.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4146.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
跟委員報告,我說我一年來的話把所有的相關的作業規則然後行政命令通通翻出來然後做一個總盤點所以這個部分的話我想我們在年底的話會有一個故宮的法令會編跟那個文物安全的作業手冊會出版 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4147.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4163.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那在這年底之前呢還會有陸續其他的展覽不是嗎基本上來講的話SOP的部分我們可以修的都修了這次修的話就是修說因為散落在各個地方我們把它放在一個通則 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4164.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4167.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
每次只要談到故宮我們想要先問故宮到底國際定位在哪裡我想院長你自己也不否認故宮其實是非常重要的亞洲博物館 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4190.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4199.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
而且他明明其實有面對國際觀光客的這些資源在身上我們來看在2015年藝術界的權威媒體故宮的評比當時的參觀人次來到500多萬是當時的世界排名全球第六還是當時的亞洲第一可是我們回過來看到現在2023年 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4211.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4215.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
故宮人次規模在2023年去年來到只剩下100多萬相較我剛剛說的2015年故宮整個衰退到只剩三分之一那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4230.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4254.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
院長你要告訴我是因為疫情那我就先直接告訴你故宮最常常喜歡拿羅浮宮來做學習的對象羅浮宮在2015年也就是我剛剛說故宮第6名的時候當時他是第一名800多萬人次到2023年也就是疫情過後他們依然維持在800多萬人次我想問院長明年就是百年大展了故宮如何面對自己的國際定位這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4256.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4281.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
的確因為故宮最慘的時候摔到一年的話41萬人那去年的話是155萬那今年的話我們目標的話是255萬明年的話我們希望說可以回到300萬那在故宮的國際定位上來講的話故宮擁有最精彩的一個華夏文物那我們透過不同的方式國內外交流的話我們希望做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4283.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4301.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
更好的一個宣傳我們都沒有否定國內外交流的重要性就是剛剛外美領委員質詢的時候有提到這個文物的交流非常重要但是文物的交流它可能是研究性居多或者是故宮怎麼定位自己的國際交流跟相關的行銷推廣跟面對所謂的國際觀光客以前很常聽到故宮還會說因為入客不來因為疫情 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4305.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4319.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那我就問如果故宮想像的就是只有所謂的路客我們不去面對國際觀光客不去想像國際觀光客或是我們不辦相關的活動去召喚國際觀光客他怎麼可能變成有國際定位有自己想像這個國際定位的故宮 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4320.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4334.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
是 就是故宮博物院其實我上任的時候也一直思考怎麼樣提升國際文化交流的動能那當然也有貴會的委員提出說故宮要提一個故宮的國際戰略計畫其實這個跟我們原來規劃的不謀而合 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4339.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4354.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
請問國際戰略計畫目前的進度是?我們現在國際戰略目標的構想就是說已經有一個初稿那也送給吳委員那我們可能回去以後我們也送給大院的每一個委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4355.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4355.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
國際戰略如何牽扯到 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4374.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4374.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4393.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4417.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
在這個考察當中故宮直接告訴所有教育文化委員會的委員說在文物維護還有庫房管理的人力相當不足這是故宮自己提出來的那我想要問院長你上任這一年多以來你如何看待故宮目前人力的應用靠所謂的基金聘用人力或是實習生非典型的人力來運作擴編人事這件事情因為你們也即將要提出明年的預算嘛院長你自己怎麼看這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4419.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4442.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
修復的人力不足這是真的那以故宮來講的話故宮在保存這69萬件文物讓他們安全無疑然後就是做好一個維護工作比買新的展品還重要很多人問說故宮為什麼不買新的展品我沒有問你新展品啦我問你修復人力跟典藏的人力這個部分所以這個部分的話因為受限於總研委法那當然就是說未來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4443.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4445.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
若是總原額法,我們有沒有機會,若他在沒有辦法擴編人力之下,是不是現在內部原額要怎麼盤點跟調整,在你們不同的處事當中做調整?現在當然16人,16人裡面的話有4位是用基金聘用,如果說我們錢賺得多的話,那依照博物館法的話,基金我們可以中天 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4467.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4468.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
請院長再次我相信立法院的委員絕對願意支持相關的人力預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4496.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4519.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
但我覺得故宮必須要自己面對並且提出這個相關的需求跟委員報告一下就是百年或是所謂全球文化戰略都牽涉到也許說那個人力不足是另外一個問題可是那個經會的話因為故宮來講我來了以後發現故宮的那個那個宣傳的經會是兩位數我說怎麼可能故宮的宣傳經會是兩位數呢可是他們說那以前就是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4521.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4540.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
所以看起來院長你也面臨很多的困境我覺得你確實是要提出來讓大家可以共同參與討論好不好我相信所有教育文化委員會絕對都會支持好最後一分鐘這個院長昨天記者會你有看到嗎你們自己發行這個我手上拿這個金牌人生對好院長你自己有玩過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4541.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4544.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我自己手上有,但是我玩的話我年紀還沒到要玩 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4561.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4577.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
好 包含前測後測關於輕度失智輕度認知障礙的長者在語文圖像學習記憶能力都有進步而且大幅的進步這件事情我們絕對肯定故宮在這件事情上為長者們所做的努力可是你們昨天記者會說直接把這套牌卡拿出來賣我們來往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4579.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4580.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
故宮如何想像自己這套產品的定位? |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4598.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4612.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
所以我剛說我幫你玩過了你知道他最大的困境是什麼院長我跟你報告齁你這本手冊裡面只有三頁是實用指引後續所有這一百多頁全部都是單張圖卡的文物說明請問他到底是藝術文學性的專業故宮典藏的專業還是醫療的專業這件事情我完全看不出來那我要說我沒有要否定你們跟榮總開發這個用在醫事工作人員上的這個對於長者的協助可是如果你直接放到商品架上來賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4628.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4652.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
這樣好像不大合理我想這個部分的話因為很多博物館的同業他們都希望說故宮可以給所以我們就是用換賣的方式另外博物館學習的學生他們也希望那一般的話也有家裡的媽媽他們覺得說小朋友也可以玩他們也要給小朋友所以這個部分的話當然沒有錯就是說如果把這個卡拿在一個醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4655.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4655.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
館長蕭宗煌列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4685.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4685.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
一般版或專業版 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4703.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4727.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
因為我們跟榮總的話續約三年再簽三年可是在你的業務報告裡面其實你們沒有提到如果你要提的是專業版我剛剛說我們沒有意見而且我們相信很多的研究中心很多的認知工作方裡面一定都會覺得很好用但是我不要談其他美學的問題就是產品的定位如果你們現在都說不清楚那就麻煩因為我時間到了就再給教育文化委員會所謂的一個報告好不好所以記者會上也沒有說明清楚嗎沒有說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4731.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4740.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以就拜託再把相關報告給教育及文化委員會所委員一份,謝謝好,謝謝院長,謝謝主席好,謝謝陳培鈺委員,院長請回我們接下來請葛如君委員謝謝主席,有請故宮蕭宗煌院長有請蕭院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4763.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4783.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
各位很早好謝謝早安我想還是很感謝院長願意擔當剛剛有很多委員都已經問了您也表達您期望留任我先給您鼓勵現在有很多這種讓大家誤解覺得故宮螺絲吊滿地有庫房管理的問題有點焦在翠玉白菜旁邊的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4785.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4785.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
故宮百年願慶 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4815.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4828.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這兩個問題其實最終都會關乎到館藏文物的本身在場所有的委員都非常的重視在這裡剛剛大家都問過了我要再問一次請問院長為什麼不積極的向行政院爭取擴編法定原額 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4831.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4840.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這個部分我們還努力因為總原額法當然是有限制總原額法有限制嗎我們來看一下我們有跟行政院的這個人事總處我們替院長已經問過了人事總處表示這個原額法定預算約351人實際原額只有303人還有48個缺額為什麼說我們人力不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4857.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4880.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
為什麼有原額法的限制而且他們根本不會去管你們怎麼樣的流用啊故宮的人力到底在哪裡跟委員報告一下48個人的話就是因為依照那個行政慣例就那個改組的話人是凍結沒有補另外一部分的話就是說他要申請分化證用那 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4881.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4902.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
另外的話就是說所謂的緣額的話有預算緣額跟實際緣額如果預算緣額主計處沒有給錢的話我們有那個緣額的話基本上來講的話我們等於是一個空殼子沒關係人事總處就是表示還有緣額接下來就是管理的問題我們一起來努力好不好我想再來是庫房人力的問題我們故宮的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4903.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4923.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
包含技工在內一共50人要點館70萬件的文物平均一個人要點館14000件文物以全年上班250天來講我們算過了每個人每天不吃不喝不休息每10分鐘中午還不能吃便當每10分鐘一天要來check56件文物是否安然無恙 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4924.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4934.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
庫房管理員是不是就打開看一下還在一眼就關上是這樣子嗎請確認一下現在這個典藏文物確認的狀態到底是怎麼樣時間根本不夠人力根本不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4935.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4961.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
依照博官法的話故宮博物院20年的話要做一個全院的總盤點所以所有的文物都要檢點過那例行性的話是每一季有像50個人的盤點院長然後那個單位主管的話會進行抽點抽點的話基本上來講的話是檢視文物那一般的盤點的話基本上來講的話是屬於秘書室的那個財產的數量數量跟公共文物不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4962.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4968.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們之後還要更多的交流我們已經幫你算過了告訴一下院長我們現在的盤點時間上一次從民國97年一路盤點到101年總共花費了超過1000天3年7個月才把70萬件文物盤點完現在民國113年距離上次盤點12年我們接下來很快就要面對20年盤點大限我們可能還要再花3、4年的時間來盤點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4991.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5015.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我們在考察的時候看到就是說我們有引入新的方法啦以前的方法那這個沒辦法我們現在引入新的方法RFID的方式來管理老實說我們等於在iPhone的時代又引入了Nokia 3310我們不能沾沾自喜我們來看一下國外的例子華盛頓的史密森國家自然史博物館就已經在用AI來幫助進行盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5018.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5040.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們台灣也有國立台灣歷史博物館的案例導入智慧科技輔助人力管理用AI影像辨識的系統來辨別館藏物取代RFID的無線射頻標籤的運作而且用AI還可以直接就辨識有沒有裂痕有沒有問題大幅的縮短人力我想請教一下院長能不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5041.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5056.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
再一次的確認我們可不可以開放高解析度的圖片來訓練AI不只保存文化也要來做訓練管藏盤頂的技術能不能請院長將此提議帶回去研議一個院內將評估報告以書面提供給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5058.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5084.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我依照委員意見來辦理好 謝謝我想我們一起努力另外一個文物修復人力不足的問題我們看過了編制內的文物修復人力只有12人12人在座的大家都沒有聽錯70萬件的館藏來計算等於每個修復人力要處理58000多件的文物修復文物修復還有很多的部分啦預防性保存啦修復啦科學方法分析啦等等我們已經算過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5085.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5107.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
事實上要花930年以目前的修復量能才能把館藏文物修復一遍我們特別跟教育部調了資料近3年國內文資相關保存的畢業生有130人我們再看一次這個緣額能不能用這些缺額來積極擴編文物修復的人力可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5108.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5120.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
博物館的文物保存維護它有一個邏輯並不是每年給它翻出來看一次因為基本上來講的話比如說現展文物的話我們就是要讓它睡三年三年保持在一個穩定的一個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5123.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5141.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我直接有些我打斷你齁負面的理由我們都理解但是問題我們要解決不是只是把困難說出來那不然這些文物還是持續的在老化這些我們修復能力還是持續的不足我想這不是我們負責任的態度齁我想我們繼續再來關注一下齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5143.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5145.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
剛剛我們提到還有很多預算的問題結果我們來看這個故宮修復的計畫裡頭我們在新故宮的計畫裡面南院用46億要來興建國保館那這個國保館還要一邊修復一邊給大家看 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5161.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5177.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那我想確認一下那天參訪的時候院長也說國寶萬子編列新建建物的預算裡面可能還沒有硬體甚至可能還沒有修復的額外人力我想確認一下裡面軟硬體的預算在哪裡是不是還沒有著落啊確認一下院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5179.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5193.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
能不能幫助我們理解一下這個問題因為新故宮計畫基本上來講的話是一個營建經費有沒有編列現在有沒有國保館的硬體軟體人力的預算有還是沒有基本上116年要開了115年要完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5196.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5197.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
人力的培育呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5197.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5197.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
多兩位是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5217.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5229.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
人力的部分的話我們會跟國內的古物修護研究所進行建教合作讓他們在學校之後的一個第二階段的一個延伸實務訓練然後幫故宮然後也幫忙這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5232.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5235.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
整建之後北院將增加多少展示空間? |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5260.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5287.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我們大家都想看文物27%的民眾表示文物才是故宮的重點故宮北院整修之後49億元我們會提供多少新的展示空間北院的話會增加2000平方米的空間2000平方米是不是2000平方米我們再來評估一下夠不夠我們現在的文件的展示率事實上只有0.1%各類展品的平均展示率只有2.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5288.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5305.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們已經算過了如果以圖書文獻類的藏品來講要一千年才能全部展出一輪真的是有可能有一些藏品我們一輩子甚至多個輩子都看不到千年等一回這樣的比例在很多的不管是台灣的還是全世界的比起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5306.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5321.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
真的都是倒數全球我想這不是我們想要看到的因為大家到故宮就是要看展品兩千坪的增加到底夠不夠我們增加了更多的可能是咖啡廳玻璃亭這真的是我們民眾要的嗎我想請教一下到底這個增建計畫的資料你們是公布在哪裡我們現在看到這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5332.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5340.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我們是怎麼樣在看到這個有什麼空間模擬動畫啦有什麼視覺的圖啊在官網上有沒有公開給民眾瞭解跟查閱啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5341.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5370.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
因為這個建築是在規劃設計的階段還沒有定案民眾都不用知道嗎?民眾非常關心啊我們竟然還要去自己買雜誌喔雜誌的第49頁有一個QR codeQR code查進去有這些東西這怎麼樣?是報導獨家嗎?還是要促銷這個雜誌?我相信都不是啊能不能請院長今天質詢以後三天內將整件進化的相關資訊放上官網並且建立專區讓各界可以早一點來提供建議啊可不可以這樣做? |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5371.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5373.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
副座可以嗎?因為他管工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5379.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5407.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們整件民眾有權知道吧有權關心吧還是要去買雜誌才能知道還要掃碼我們可以整理之後提供上網好不好上到故宮官網我想我們今天還是非常友善提醒院長最近歷史博物館閉館整修6年以後對外開放各界對於成果褒貶不一提出很多的質詢那事實上各國都已經用科技在試著去做空間的體驗或者回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5407.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5424.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
甚至是做一些未來的穿越時空的確認其實可以用VR跟AR來高解析度的重現巴黎聖母院的細節其實就有機會可以讓民眾用一支手機或者一個虛擬實際的頭盔就可以先預覽我們要花49億整修的 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5427.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5430 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
請院長將利用VR、AR虛擬實踐的技術來實際體驗故宮北院整建後的樣貌。我覺得國保館都可以考慮,能不能請院長將以上意見帶回研議,並將研議結果於一個月內。 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5444.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5465.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
已經夠了以書面提供的本席可以嗎跟委員報告一下就是說我們委託營建的設計現在是在一個設計構想的階段還沒確定啦所以我們還可以評估要不要鼓勵提拔對不對就可能讓建築師說把他完整的通通弄出來因為這個這個他有一個審議程序審議程序通過以後同意這樣的試驗所以一個月還不夠一個月還不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5468.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5470.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那什麼時候會公開這些資料給大家? |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5494.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5495.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我提一下這一次參觀故宮的體驗我其實相當感動 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5520.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5536.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
從文物保存跟修復的觀點來看有非常多是AI和機器人目前無法達成的人類扮演更加重要的角色未來期望院方可以讓人類和AI各自負責擅長的工作相輔相成我們一起來努力讓資源運用效率最大化也要讓人力做合理妥善的安排讓故宮來進入一個更好的狀態好嗎 謝謝委員是這方面專家我們會再跟委員請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5547.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5548.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
郭文貴議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5576.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5590.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
各位謝謝這個禮拜的一個參訪是其實很開心喔就是禮拜一的時候我們有特別到故宮去做考察那雖然我沒有翠玉白菜但是我的作品在這裡裡面有那個三顆玻璃高麗菜 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5591.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5595.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我自己本身對於自己的作品其實也很珍藏那麼在搬運的過程其實我也經常就是不想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5619.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5619.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5639.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5655.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
關於那個南美館展覽這件事情當然就是因為總共將近13萬人然後展覽辦理得非常成功尤其那個同仁嗨分的頭忘記了標準作業程序所以這個部分的話的確是一個缺失這對專業人員的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5659.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5680.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
本質的信念我覺得我們還要再加強那至於懲處的部分的話因為台南美術館他們才把那個整個結案報告送過來所以我們現在還沒有簽到我這邊所以我們會用賞華分明的方式就是說因為大家真的很辛苦然後該犯錯就犯錯我們會來做一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5682.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5709.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
對,但這樣子的一個舉動的確是對民眾觀感來講其實是非常不好的話對故宮的形象是有非常非常大的一個傷害對好,那我想關於這個故宮的百年大展其實我們就是也特別強調在明年的2025年其實是一個雙重意義的一年就是從台北建造了這個台版的故宮到現在其實我們是一甲子那再加上明年的這個百年大展的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5709.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5711.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
其實故宮百年的活動是我上任以來我發現說其實過去沒有規劃所以我就開始著手規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5732.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5732.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5758.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5771.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
建築百年活動的規劃我們一起再進行從驗死的方面然後從展覽的方面從文創行銷的方面但是我剛也在這邊報告過了我們的行銷的經費少到可憐我覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5772.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5799.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
故宮過去好像就我老品牌都不用做宣傳不用雜誌廣告什麼都不用然後自己大家都會來所以這個部分的話因為他牽涉到經會如果我們要編經會的話也要主計處同意然後大院這邊也要支持所以這個部分的話那可能請故宮這邊你們也提出你們需要的一些經費或者是一些計畫其實比較具體的部分其實可以我們經會都已經算好了只是只是等著要跟主計處協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5801.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5827.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
當然我們希望其實在明年的時候故宮可以有一個更全新的一個風貌然後就是因為百年大展其實也是一個非常重要的一件事情那剛剛其實我要特別提到就是我們的這個數位的這個捕捉靈光的這個展覽其實也呼應到剛剛有委員特別提到他一直強調說我們是不是可以把一些文物的細節的部分用AI的方式用資訊的方式然後用 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5827.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5850.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
實際上在那個臺南的那個千載藍紅的展覽的對一個階段的那個那個數位作品的話其實他就是用AI他用AI去模擬那個幻谷的畫作賽上的畫作然後跟中國的書畫結合在一起所以我們已經開始應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5851.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5866.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
是 其實連我們的這個數位的這個數位展然後曾經故宮的一個數位展其實也上次我特別去看了一下那我覺得展覽就是這樣就是即使我們有7萬件的文物在故宮典藏 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5867.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5868.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
跟我們報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5895.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5920.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
故宮將近70萬件的物件的話基本上來講都已經完成數位典藏所以一般民眾的話都可以上網去查閱但是開放open data的話是40萬件所以我們會繼續努力好那當然在這個地方我們有特別講到就是前一天我特別我們有去故宮特別做了一個考察跟參訪那當然關於所謂的這個古物文物的一個修復的一個現狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5921.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5937.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
其實我個人看的是非常的感動啦因為其實我自己本身在做秀真藝術的其實我看了那麼多的不同的工具那麼多的細微的一個細部的部分其實匠人的精神就是在這個地方其實完全的展現這個地方一定要給故宮更多的一個支持跟鼓勵啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5938.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5961.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
但是就是在原額的部分在剛剛其實有很多的委員我們也特別有提到那當然這個部分可能會跟原本在這個行政院的人事行政總處這個地方他們總原額限制的一個關係所以這個部分我們要怎麼樣來來擴展這樣子的一個人力因為我想當然不是70萬件都有問題都需要修補當然不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5962.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5983.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
必須是說我們可能在所謂的預防性的修復或者是在修復完之後的觀察維持這個其實也很重要但我相信其實16人雖然對我們的故宮來講這是滿邊的一個狀態但是其實他緣額還是不足的這個部分是不是故宮這邊有什麼樣的一個想法我們可以來做一個跟行政院這邊來做一個相對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5986.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6004.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
第一階段我們接下來會盤整總人力然後去把那個空間騰出來如果可以優先進補那個文物修復人才的話那因為南印大培養很多學生基本上來講的話都進不到博物館故宮願意開放這樣的一個空間然後讓更多修復人才到故宮來 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6006.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6030.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
新故宮計畫不管南院北院整理之後我們都有一個比較標準的一個修復空間然後讓修復的工作可以進行得更順暢這個預計在什麼時候會全部的完工呢?這個新故宮計畫因為我記得上一次其實有特別提到北院的圖書文獻大樓就第二展覽館包括修復室的話是在明年年底那南院的話要到117年 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6032.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6058.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
另外我還有一個小的問題就是說我們在修護的人力這16人是都集中在北院比較多還是說南院其實也有分配到目前都在北院都在北院但南院是不是在這個織品的部分他們其實也有修護師是嗎目前我所舉止基本上來講的話典藏的研究人員的話他們可以做一個基本的維護可是如果親入室的修護基本上來講的話都要經過專業訓練才有辦法去進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6060.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6061.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
北院修護師、下級南院協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6075.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6075.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6105.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6128.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
故宮有什麼樣的一些困境其實在這個地方可以告訴我們的嗎剛剛也有委員提到基本上來講的話我們用傳統的一個庫房管理然後改為RFIDRFID的話雖然晚一點的話但基本上來講它還是一個基礎所以未來的話如果用AI數位化管理的話如果可以節省更多的人力的話當然是一個很好的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6129.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6151.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
因為我們知道其實在器物存放的庫房當中光是就是我們的器物處其實就有6個庫房我們的書畫文獻其實有7個庫房沒錯吧如果所知道總共有13個庫房才配置22個人力其實真的一個庫房大概就是一個人多一點其實是其實是真的不夠的那這個部分其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6154.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6177.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
因為庫房的管理人力的話其實跟我們研究人員的話是一個互補的就是說研究人員的話基本上來講的話就是書畫類的話就書文處的人他其實要兼顧相對等的一個責任所以因為這個部分的話很難去算說哪一個叫做庫房管理人員哪一個叫做什麼就是說總體來講的話譬如說書文處的話我們大概有28個人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6179.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6179.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
蕭薄薄 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6210.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6222.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
故宮還有很大努力空間希望大家給支持好 謝謝謝謝院長 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝 謝謝郭育群委員我們接下來請陳秀寶委員謝謝主席 請院長好 有請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6242.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6261.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
陳委員早院長早安那今天其實每位委員都很關心我們翠玉白菜的安委也覺得我們故宮在保存文物這一塊不夠謹慎那剛才院長你都已經答詢了這邊本席想要再請教院長是說目前我們針對文物的保存是不是有制定相關的遵循的事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6263.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6287.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
有,其實我們有很多相關的規則。我們是不是應該都會滾動檢討,會不定期的拿出來解釋?對,就是從我今年就任以後,我就要求同仁盤點所有的法規命令,然後那個什麼作業規則,所以我們已經盤點了一大堆,就是在下半年的話,我們會出版那個法規的那個作業手段。那所以是因為還不夠詳細嗎?還是說還不夠嚴謹嗎?為什麼會出這樣子的事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6292.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6317.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
因為相關的作業要點或是作業希致作業準則的話就是有點善就是說這個要點會很多所以它沒有一個為什麼我說我要出版手冊呢?手冊就是要把它通通集結在我這邊要要求的就是說你們經過這次的事件之後再把所有的這些SOP全部再檢討過好嗎?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6318.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6324.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
希望我們用更嚴謹的態度對待我們的文物不能用這麼鬆散的心態來辦理相關事宜故宮絕對是嚴謹的但是的確是有疏失這個我們承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6330.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6338.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
一定要檢討那接下來呢今天早上也多位委員都非常的關心蕭院長你有沒有被徵詢是不是會繼續來擔任我們故宮的院長對未來故宮會由誰繼續帶領大家都非常的關心但是本席在這邊的重點是有一個說法讓我本席覺得非常的遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6350.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6357.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
就是在新任院長還沒有人選沒有公布之前呢有人就用性別當作議題來聲稱如果新任的院長是女性那國寶就不再是國寶院長你覺得這樣的說法恰當嗎國寶永遠是國寶國寶的話有兩種一種的話是我們自己審定的國寶中藥國物一種是民眾認知的就故宮的人氣國寶像崔白菜國寶的定義跟新任院長的性別毫無關係沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6378.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6390.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
所以本席覺得非常的遺憾說竟然有這樣的言論那明年故宮就要迎來百年的願慶會面臨很多的挑戰我們也有無限的可能性別不是適任的標準專業才是接下來院長針對我們目前很熱烈討論的現代藝術跟博物館等建築結合的議題最近這個史博館的玻璃盒跟故宮的玻璃亭被熱烈的討論並對比 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6408.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6423.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那院長您過去曾擔任文化部次長,如果用文化跟博物館學的角度來看,針對說現代建築美學跟博物館的建築的新舊風格這樣如何融合,您有什麼看法? |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6425.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6445.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
古蹟跟新的建築融合其實在全世界的範例就是說並不是沒有有這樣的一個範例但是因為故宮的案例的話是2022年就是他招標然後就是有廠商四家廠商有一家得標得標的廠商的話他就是造一個玻璃入口那因為他 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6446.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6472.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
因為這樣他得標了那得標的話當然第一次送那個臺北市文集審沒有審過可是我上任之後我不能剝奪他的修正權所以基本上來講的話我要求他根據社會的意見然後還有那個臺北市文集集的意見去做修正所以他把量體縮小了把那個協議頂縮小了但是在我們跟民眾的一個公開夜燃的過程裡面還是有很多的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6473.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6473.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6488.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6490.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
謝謝院長您有說會會診相關的意見那其實當初採用玻璃的想法可能因為覺得它是透明的對這個建築物的遮蔽可能就是比較不會讓民眾覺得很違和 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6505.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6531.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
但是如果說啦史博館的這個例子因為史博館的玻璃盒真的讓民眾感覺太突兀但如果說你們要參考羅浮宮、大英博物館都有使用這個玻璃建築這樣子的做法呢其實本席在這邊我不討論說我們這個故宮的玻璃亭是不是要興建這個興建與否不是我關注的焦點而是說在反古跟現代爭執中所謂的去中化就真的想太多想得太複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6533.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6533.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
接下來再跟院長來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6561.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6581.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
就是故宮跟北榮在昨天有簽署合作備忘錄宣布這個金牌人生認知的這個牌卡正式發行那這次一份裡面會有60張的牌卡還有一個手冊那上面的圖卡其實都是故宮的經典文物啊 十分的細緻也讓民眾可以藉這個機會來接觸到我們故宮很珍貴的這些文物 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6584.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6604.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那透過這個圖卡上面的文物來引導這個失智症的患者來對話呢也促進他們認知能力的訓練那在醫學期刊上啦甚至說北榮神經醫學中心的副職人對這個圖卡的這個作用呢也非常的認可就是說其實這個真的也可以幫助到失智症患者 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6605.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6623.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我非常肯定說我們故宮在推廣樂齡教育這個服務也很用心也希望說故宮你們能持續的來推廣那在這邊請問叫院長就是說你們跟北榮簽署的這個合作備忘錄之後呢有沒有預計如何來推廣這個這麼好的這個金牌人生這個牌卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6625.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6648.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
第一個三年的合作配合 第一個就持續推動這個牌卡之外的話我們希望說有更進階的就譬如說我們可以利用數位科技然後讓這個牌卡的話可以進入到AR VR的一個情況那另外的話當然就是說未來是不是可以用AI來提升認知的話我想三年的時間的話我們會去做研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6649.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6655.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那比如說跟衛福部的醫療院所或是教育部的樂齡中心來合作這個你們有沒有考慮? |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6656.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6679.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們不排除跟所有的醫療院所合作因為在那天的話我們也跟榮總講就是說我們盡量盡量比如說我在臺灣博物館的時候我們就跟那個臺北聯合醫學中心去合作然後有那個所謂的社會處方簽去看醫生醫生開一個處方說你要去看博物館類似這樣的情況的話我們未來的話有更多人的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6681.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6687.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
教育部的熱靈中心希望你們可以積極主動推廣我們會跟在部熱靈中心跟衛福部聯絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6689.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6691.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
跟委員報告一下就是我們現在北院做的是60件的故宮產品那我要求故宮南院的話是做以織品為中心然後把台灣的民俗的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6718.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6721.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
關於我們故宮文物這些我們的保存人員我們的修復人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6745.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6753.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
故宮有超過70萬件的文物但是我們目前文物修復人員只有16位那在編制內的技術人員有即將退休的那因為原額你們還欲缺不補所以代表之後呢之後的文物修復人員可能會只剩下13位那依照博物管法的規定預算法可以設置就是設置作業基金那作業基金呢可以作為編制外人員的人事支出以自籌30%為限 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6774.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6792.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那目前我們有4位是透過基金來聘請的那本席記得去年在審查預算的時候呢本來你們故宮的文物藝術發展基金編列的業務收入是3億5千8百85萬那本席有提增列所以變成是3億6千8百85萬那如果說依法在30%之內可以作為人事支出的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6798.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6821.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
可以說故宮應該有很大的空間可以聘請修復人員那我們故宮有沒有這樣的規劃來增加人力我們希望說在今年開始我們故宮的人力慢慢回流然後因為門票收入是故宮收入的一個很重要的部分那這樣的話我們基金盈餘的話就可以聘請更多的人員所以院長有這樣的規劃就是說以這樣的基金來支應擴編人力的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6826.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6846.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
對 那當然就是我們會重新盤點所有的人力因為剛剛委員資料上面也講說我們的巨工就是退休一切不補所以現在第一個的話我們就控管那個院長的司機院長司機的話要退休不補然後把那個錢留給那個留給那個必要的接下來的話就控管副院長的司機 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6850.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6859.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
謝謝院長 副院長您用心我再提一下我們故宮也有修復實習生是協助修復人員在進行比較非核心的修復工作一些協助的工作這幾年故宮單位都會入企每年入企大概10到15名的修復實習生 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6876.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6894.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
再來呢 如果說因為修復空間 搬遷那個時程不確定我們現在只死收四位 有兩位外籍 兩位是本國籍那你們這邊跟教育部清法署洽談了114年你們會分到有五名那這五名是額外的名額還是在這10到15名之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6897.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6913.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
基本上來講的話是這樣就是因為今年的話今年的話是因為我們在整修空間整修空間的話沒有多餘的能量去收納實習生要不然的話我們歷年都增長到最高有14位所以我們希望說等到新故宮計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6914.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6931.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
北院處理好了以後我們可以是5位是外加的如果14位最高的話再加5位的話我們希望說實習生可以到20位可是他會牽涉到一個問題就是說南藝大的國務協務研究所到底有沒有那麼多研究生不可能把所有研究生通通抓來我們這邊實習盡量搶啊我們會努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6936.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6963.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
這邊請教院長在故宮實習過的實習生截至目前為止有83位那我相信說他們在故宮實習這個寶貴的經驗對我們台灣培育這個文物的修復人才是有很大的注意那如果說這些畢業生以後來我們故宮這邊應徵的話你們會不會優先入用報告就是故宮的我們的修務的那個洪科長就是在故宮實習的其實我們裡面起碼有三四位是在故宮實習後來到故宮任職的 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6965.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6979.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
所以說因為他們有這樣的經驗也有這樣的默契所以你們會優先的來錄用那有沒有考慮說在暑期的時候提供短期的公讀計畫來緩解修復人力的不足就是這些實習生他們可以來在短期的支援 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6981.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7003.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
因為暑期的話就是實習那實習的話基本上來講的話進入到庫房要經過一個專業的基礎訓練不是任何人都可以進庫房因為基本上來講的話也不是說很簡單的一個行前教育就可以進入所以這個部分的話公讀生的部分他只能做周邊的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7004.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7009.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我相信我們民眾對故宮的期待就是說除了你們有保存文物的這樣子的一個你們最大的這個工作之外呢對於這個修復文物人才的培育呢我相信民眾也非常的關心就是說我們這個人才會不會斷層我們是持續的有人才可以來人力可以接應上所以希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7029.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7033.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
故宮對於文化修復的人員的培訓能夠多加規劃以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7057.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7057.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
有請院長蕭院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7065.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7092.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
委員長好,就是說非常感謝就是週一的安排讓我們可以很近身的去觀察這些修復的藝術那我真的覺得這個修復師的生命真的是孤獨又燦爛的生命那就是延續剛剛前面幾位委員的一些關心我想大家都非常關心這個修復師的人力還有庫房管理的人力因為這也是當時在說人力有所不足那前面其實也有委員問到說我們因為這是關心到這個人事的編制上面的緣額 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7094.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7121.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
現在有一些是因為新內閣要進來所以沒有辦法去來分配是不是可以分配到故宮那我想要確認一件事情就是說如果說我們新內閣進來之後有原額的話院長這邊會不會去爭取基本上來講的話是原額的控管是因為是一個憲政的慣例就是在那個改組階段的話人事凍結等到那個無人之後的話就是他就解凍了解凍的話我們就可以盤點人力然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7122.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7122.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
趕快來進補 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7144.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7166.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
故宮要跟世界說明我們的一個定位我們的方向那這一次我看到在所有的部展裡面不管是國際的或是國內的我們有很多的展都是以宋朝的一些藝術品做一些展出那我想要講就是說我們在故宮幾年在北京故宮幾年在台北又是幾年呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7169.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7179.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我想我們在...沒關係直接回答我哪一個時間比較長好了在台北比較長在台北的話1965年在外雙溪的話到現在60年59年然後再加北溝的話大概13年還是17年我現在要算一下總共73年在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7192.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7192.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這部分想請教院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7220.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7242.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
當然故宮一百plus我們不要用一百的話就是一百plus的話就表示說我們會往前看但是因為以目前來講的話我們大概就是會做一個回顧成為剛委員講的話以宋朝的文物為主因為宋朝的文物是故宮博物院宋冶明清裡面最 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7242.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7245.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以我想問一下這個100plus是指說接下來明年之後嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7266.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7267.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所以我們在哪一個系列會把台灣的這些元素放進去呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7275.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7276.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
對,但是我是說在這個故宮百年系列展裡面有嗎?我們有規劃嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7297.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7325.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
只要告訴我有沒有好不好我跟委員報告一下因為這個就是很敏感因為我們放了太多的臺灣元素的話就會出現兩個字就是因為你加入比如說我們故宮北院然後故宮南院的話蓋故宮南院就是為了兩個字同樣的如果我們加了過多的臺灣元素的話又會有那兩個字大小院長我現在看起來是因為我們幾乎沒有臺灣元素因為我們現在基本上我覺得我們還是要去做出一個差異化 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7326.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7340.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我們在那個展覽裡面有一個夾子萬年就是講說那個故宮博物院在台灣這一夾子裡面的跟文物的故事跟關係人物的關係所以我們會有這樣的一個東西但是直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7341.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7349.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我希望就是說因為畢竟我們是要展望未來啦未來就是在台灣了嘛那我們應該還是要有更多相關的一些展覽去做一些規劃那再來就是說我們來看一下因為回顧到我們講基金是我們能不能聘請人力的一個很重要的一個裁員 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7368.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7394.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那我現在看到我們其實是有短著三千多萬在今年的預算裡面我們看起來是不夠的那我們就來看我們要如何賺錢好不好那我看一下我們之前有做一個網路的資料調查其實你們也調查了來客率就是說來訪的人數訪客在北院的話年紀是比較長的南院是比較年輕的可是有一個很重要的重點就是在北院幾乎在未到訪以未滿15歲的比例為最高達到了將近四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7395.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7418.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
南院則是以15到24歲的比例最高,佔41.2%所以這看起來是有兩個問題我們要來處理的首先我們先來處理一個我們如何去吸引所謂的15到24歲的人來我們的故宮百年文創我們現在做的這百年文創的紀念品紀念郵票、紀念幣、紀念酒其實是非常適合我們現在所謂的主要客群就是50歲以上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7418.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7419.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我跟院長建議可以做個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7436.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7458.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
就是說我們有沒有看過像這樣子的東西有看過有看過嗎?有看過對不對?看起來我看院長都會心一笑齁就其實這個東西是在日本出的一系列的喔他們不僅有出這樣子的自由女神的扭蛋喔那這個民眾就買了之後還是開始回去哭首做很多不同的創意這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7460.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7476.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
還有他們還有跟紐約大都會博物館也有做一系列的部分那我就在想我們是不是可以把這件事情變成扭蛋呢我們可不可以有更多的創意去吸引我們的年輕人為了這件事情來到走進故宮有沒有更多的誘因這是不是一個可行性的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7477.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7506.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
基本上來講的話除了我們那個計畫中比較制式的一個文創商品之外的話其實我們現在在想說如何跟台灣的百年老店結合讓他們跟故宮聯名那另外的話我們會鼓勵就是說不同的所有跟故宮合作過的業者他們都可以在故宮百年100plus的中間開發是他們的文創商品那當然不排除把聯名繼續往下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7507.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7520.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
對,因為我覺得我們最大的問題是15到24歲的人不來了這個地方是我們必須要去解決的因為它如果我們可以在這個時候去把它吸引進來我們就有可能去補足未來人口凋零的這個問題再來就是說針對15歲以下因為我們剛剛還有15歲以下的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7526.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7552.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
在北院15歲以下的將近4成的沒有來過故宮那我看了一下就是紐約大都會博物館啊多倫多皇家安大陸博物館都是國家級的博物館他們都有針對18歲以下的小孩以不同的年齡層去開發不同型的課程作為他們學校校外教學的活動那目前我看是故宮南院有做類似的那不曉得說我們在故宮北院是不是也可以以這個方向來做一些規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7554.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7579.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
故宮北院的兒育中心基本上來講大家擔心說北院的兒育中心開了之後北院的那個地下一樓的那個兒童的那個空間會不會取消不會那個會繼續但是北院的兒育中心就是現在第二行政大樓跟那個我們適當的舊的宿舍的話我們就會變成是一個教案教協的一個可以受惠的一個場域 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7580.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7581.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7600.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7617.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
故宮對於兒童青少年我們原則上的話都盡量採取免費的一個服務包括志工導覽都免費對我知道因為他小時候進來嘛長大他才有可能持續的進來我們其實在為未來的客人幫他招募進來那我還是想的就是說我們還是要去賺未來一直一直去賺錢好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7618.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7640.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以這個資料我也可以提供給故宮那再來延續一下不好意思我再接一點時間就是故宮兒童學藝中心我們有收到民眾來陳情就是說3C數位的設備過多而且自費量非常非常多對於學齡前的孩子來說其實並不友善那當時故宮回應我的是說我們有辦了26場互動活動但是我想院長一定非常曉得右下角那張照片就是南門博物館 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7642.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7658.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我們其實活動行程跟長社展可以讓他去觸碰的那個感覺還是不一樣就學齡前的孩子他真的資質量不夠多他也是需要透過互動、接觸、觸摸種種的這種感受性的方式去增加他跟這個藝術品跟這個博物館的一些經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7660.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7679.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
右上角其實是多倫多的安大略自然史博物館它裡面就是有一些挖掘的我想這個院長一定非常熟悉所以我在想說未來我們是不是可以針對學藝中心去做一些調整讓一些幼齡的孩子進來的時候他也可以在這邊跟藝術品互動其實那個學藝中心的話那個數位互動的話因為它在面牆上面但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7679.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7682.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
對,沒錯,真的是一個問題,因為像我自己,像多寶格那時候我也很想參加,但我也沒有報到名 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7706.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7707.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
謝謝院長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7734.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7746.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝張雅玲委員 院長請回在此宣告一下 等到葉元芝委員質詢完 我們休息五分鐘好 我們接下來請吳佩儀委員謝謝主席 我請故宮博物院蕭宗煌院長好 有請蕭院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7764.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7783.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
院長好 我們今天的報告主題是回首百年放眼未來故宮定位與部會級博物館社會責任的總檢討那當然也聽過院長的報告以及我們的簡報但我仍然要在這裡請教院長您認為故宮最重要的社會責任是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7785.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7805.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
故宮最重要的社會責任的話如果說以博物館的一個核心的話我們把這些典藏做好那當然是最重要的一個社會責任因為維持這些人類的瑰寶的話其實不容易那當然再來的話就是要把這些瑰寶的話分享給所有不只是台灣而是全世界的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7806.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7827.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
對,我們負有把這些重要的人類的文明的古文物修復保護好的責任我們也負有把這些文物和這些歷史相關的文化分享給包括國內以及國外社群的責任我覺得這非常的重要那我們故宮正在進行這個新故宮計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7828.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7842.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那在改革的路上總是會遇到很多的辯論以及討論像這一次我們的新故宮計畫這新聞上面有說有些人以這個新故宮計畫是不是在進行去中國化來進行反對的意見那去中國化這個名詞對我來說也是一個歷史名詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7851.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7856.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我算是出生在臺灣解嚴那一年但有記得從小我們在電視新聞上看到臺灣當年在討論要教改的時候就有人出聲反對說不行不行這個教改叫做去中國化那所以呢我想我們如果回顧人類的歷史其實臺灣也不孤單人類歷史上面每當要改革的時候總是會遇到各式各樣似是而非 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7876.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7892.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
的言論來作為反動的修辭他的目的是什麼呢目的就是要讓你害怕讓你的改革不敢前進所以我想不只是我們故宮的改革還有我們各項在進行的改革都希望不要憂慚慰激 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7894.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7921.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
主要是什麼?要秉持你們的專業院長剛剛在回覆很多委員的問題的時候我都相當的讚賞不管是哪一個黨派委員的問題你都秉持你的專業故宮的文物修復尤其這是何等專業的事情那接下來我想要請教院長的是我們剛剛有提到的是我們的古物修復人力除了人力的數量是否足夠以外我想故宮過去在古文物的修復 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7922.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7924.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
臺灣目前我們的古物修復是還沒有朝向證照制所以我想要請教院長的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7946.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7963.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
因為我們民間有在參與說我們的古物修復是不是可以來參照古蹟修復師他可以來把它制度化有一個證照的制度以日本來說他們也有日本國寶修理裝潢師聯盟他建立的是修理技術者的資格制度裡面他用分級的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7964.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7971.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
所以一個修復師技術師的培養可能是要17年的時間以英國來說他也是由專業團體來執行專業認證的保存計劃那院長以我們故宮過去的經驗你認為台灣的古物修復有沒有需要朝向制度化 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7984.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8012.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我覺得這個非常有必要因為跟文資的修復人力一樣因為我記得也是01級委員就是在爭取那個古蹟修復的專業技術的他的那個薪水的支付的等級所以這個部分的話有很好的突破那我覺得未來的話修復師如果可以導入一個證照制度然後讓這些修復師的話可以有一個合法的身份去從事修復的話我覺得這是一個良性的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8012.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8018.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
是 所以我希望故宮未來若文化部開始在研擬這個古路修夫斯的徵兆制的時候故宮可以把我們過去的經驗你們經驗是最寶貴的來提供分享給文化部協助台灣來去把它制度化再來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8028.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8028.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
臺灣在去年高雄開始營運的內圍藝術中心也是國內首 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8052.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8053.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
故宮目前有沒有在進行相關的規劃? |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8063.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8086.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
故宮藍燕的國寶館裡面有一個修復的專業的一個工作室基本上來講的話我們也是有這樣的概念但是這樣的概念的話並不是說任何人的話隨時隨間隨時隨刻都可以進到修復室去參觀他是一個導覽的一個形式去介紹修復的過程而不是來檢視說工作人員到底有沒有偷懶 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8087.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8107.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
有一個動作比如說光清洗的動作可能他要在那邊清洗一個鐘頭那外界會誤為說他在那邊偷懶所以這個部分的話他是一個專業的一個怎麼講規劃的調配的參訪行程並不是說隨隨便便所以像那個內文中心的話他也要1月4的參觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8108.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8130.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
是 所以我們國保館也是新故宮計畫的一環剛剛講這個可見式修復這個觀念就很重要 院長你講的就是我們為什麼要做這個可見式修復的空間其實在做教育跟推廣我們希望讓國人 更多的民眾可以了解修復工作的重要性以及它的價值然後大家也會更加的尊重那剛剛有提到說 院長你提到說故宮很缺乏行銷相關的資源你認為目前的預算編列是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8138.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8138.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
現在是增加到三位數 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8155.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8168.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
除了數字之外我想國人會更想要了解的是這些錢運算我們是要放在什麼樣的位置院長以你的過去在故宮的經驗你認為故宮現在需要增加哪些的行銷計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8169.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8193.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我想如果有經會的話基本上國際行銷是我們比較缺乏的一塊因為這個怎麼講呢因為在過去的那個年代裡面所有的新聞局或是外交部的駐外單位都會把故宮行銷故宮當作第一個本位那當然就是說因為現在大家經會也缺乏了所以變成說故宮的所謂的宣傳的部分的話都要故宮去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8194.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8214.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所以我們希望說可以譬如說參加國內外的國際禮展或是說在國際媒體上面去做行銷這個部分的話需要有一些經費來處理是 這個我是支持的增加行銷的資源讓故宮的國際免件度去增加因為內容跟行銷兩者是缺一不可而故宮是台灣極好的優勢我們有極好的內容所以應該要通過行銷能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8218.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8232.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
故宮帶領臺灣走向世界那我看到像這個你看一下這個這個院長看一下這個照片這個是美國一個跨性別模特Hunter Shaffer他的衣服你看得出來他是依據哪一個作品來設計的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8233.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8237.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
其實我們故宮過去也有做過文物跟時尚的結合2018年的時候我們跟台灣的服裝設計師周允合作就把我們的翠玉白菜是帶到了紐約的時裝周我覺得當時就是一個很好的嘗試 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8250.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8253.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
因為不只是台灣的服裝設計還結合了台灣本土的音樂創作結合了我們已故的楊秀卿老師的兩關柯志豪老師的音樂還有熊仔的rap所以呢我覺得這是一個很好的嘗試那我也希望故宮能夠再去增加去規劃更多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8269.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8282.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
相關的行銷的計畫能夠去增加我們的國際能見度特別是我們不只是要打破文化的疆界不只是要出海出航我們是要打破藝術的跨領域能夠透過我們故宮文物跟我們台灣其他本土的藝術文化創作者來結合我想這會是一個非常重要的也是故宮的社會責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8295.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8310.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個部分我希望未來故宮當我們提出我們的行銷的預算要增加的時候也可以更加明確的告訴我們我們如何透過行銷來增加國際的能見度可以嗎好謝謝委員好謝謝好謝謝吳佩奕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8328.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8331.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
好 謝謝下一位我們請林一錦委員質詢好 謝謝 謝謝主席 有請院長院長好首先想要請教院長喔你是否聽過這樣的說法因為媒體喔他指稱你是被公認這個故宮歷來院長中最不政治的政務官這種說法你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8358.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8382.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我不太懂實際上最不政治的政務官我覺得這句話其實充滿矛盾因為我不認為那是對政務官正向的形容詞如果真的有政務官自認為能置身於政治之外那我想他就是根本搞不清楚自己的角色定位不適合擔任代表國家這樣的一個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8384.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8393.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
當然部分的論者有說台灣內部因為兩岸意識形態對立所以讓故宮難逃政治的角力但是本席認為其實這是一種把故宮純粹當作博物館看待的觀點在我國現行的政治體下其實這是經不起挑戰的謬論 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8408.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8423.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
怎麼說故宮不是難逃政治的角力而是故宮根本不敢不用妄想要逃離政治的角力因為故宮現在的定位跟角色安排他根本就是政治的產物 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8424.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8446.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
故宮作為博物館直接隸屬於行政院之下他的院長形成像您現在院長就是形同於內閣成員那要到立法院來備詢那所以這怎麼可能不政治啊好那長期以來從文化政治的面向我們探討故宮的問題那有一個日本資深的媒體人 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8449.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8471.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
也導綱他去年10月底以故宮博物院外級的諮詢委員的身份來訪台有參加長達三天的這個會議他對故宮的經營有提出很多的建議那其實這不是第一次也導綱對故宮做出建言早在2016年他就有說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8472.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8489.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
故宮應該早日放下法統的任務放下中華文化本位的優越感要思考怎麼樣成為臺灣人的故宮所以院長你是否這個認同這個葉導綱的建議就是說讓故宮放下這個法統的任務並且成為臺灣人的故宮又這麼問好了啦院長你認為故宮本土化了嗎還是說故宮本土化的意義跟價值何在院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8503.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8526.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
第一個跟委員報告 認同葉道剛的觀點 因為外面的觀點的話當然是可以給我們參考可是要放下華同 放下中華文化本位的優越感 就像故宮當時成立的目的跟委員講的就是一個政治下的產物 所以這個糾葛跟羈絆的話基本上來講的話是很難完全排除的 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8528.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8529.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
應該這樣做,但是現在還在糾纏之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8544.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8562.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
故宮百年的歲月中有70多年在台灣度過那理論上故宮早該跟這塊土地上生根而且發展出在地的連結那可是無論是組織改造也好又或者是故宮修復再利用的計畫都有人覺得在去中國化那請問院長你認為什麼叫做去中國化 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8569.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8584.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
故宮的文物屬於中國嗎?那如果故宮的文物本來就不屬於中國就如同您書面報告所主張的嘛它是人類所共享的歷史文明瑰寶那到底有什麼去中國化的空間可言?院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8586.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8611.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
有時候這樣講就是很簡單的簡化的兩個字他當然會限縮到一個理性對話或是改革的空間因為當然就是說我不願意講這兩個字因為故宮面臨其苦任何的作為的話都會套上兩個字所以這個對故宮的長遠的發展的話其實是不利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8612.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8635.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那另外的話就是說所謂的故宮在地化故宮的話從1948、49年到了台灣在北溝1965年到外雙溪基本上來講我是南部的小孩子南部小孩子的願望就畢業典禮的時候可以去參觀故宮但是在這個過程裡面從來沒有小孩子說認為說我去參觀故宮的話就是會被統戰或是有什麼特別的意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8636.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8660.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以故宮的本土化其實已經逐漸在進行了那最近故宮推行的任何活動的話也都是拉伸故宮跟台灣這一段土地的感情不管是策展或是文創行銷或是教育推廣活動基本上來講的話我們都沒有所謂的器中的思維這個我要再澄清了解對所以就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8662.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8671.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
高院長您講得對可是就是說有很多來自中國的境外勢力跟他的同路人都紛紛的希望能夠透過故宮來進一步消除台灣跟中國之間國跟國的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8679.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8698.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
就像最近去 前一陣子去訪中的前總統馬英九他上個月到中國故宮的時候就說任何去中國化的行徑都不會成功因為中華文化遠遠流長以及生殖炎黃子孫的血脈當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8701.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8709.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
馬英九這種論述實際上就是在當中國政協委員的硬生蟲那上一次的詢答本席就有跟院長討論到中國召開兩會的時間有政協委員放話說要針對兩岸故宮的合作、交流、提案、建議他的論述是 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8721.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8724.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
兩岸故宮堅負著兩岸同胞講好中國故事傳遞文化認同感的時代使命讓金台深入融合交流形成統一的認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8737.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8757.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
中國政協說的 馬英九也認同所以上一次因為時間的關係那院長我有問出四問院長您那因為時間的關係你沒有辦法做出完整的回答所以我是不是再問你一次第一是否認同中國假借文物之名行文化統戰之實把博物館當作 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8759.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8781.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
政治工具的這個行為第二台灣故宮有沒有促進台灣人對中國產生認同感第三故宮文物是屬於全中國的還是屬於全人類的文化資產第四如果遇到中國單方面放話那並提出很多的理由來跟我們故宮做交流我國故宮要什麼樣實際行為來捍衛對等跟尊嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8785.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8785.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
院長． |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8791.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8814.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我簡單回答故宮是屬於全世界的文化遺產因為宋元明清那時候還沒有中華人民共和國那另外的話就是兩岸的交流要在一個法律基礎上對等然後可以友善的方式來進行如果以現在經濟造台的狀況的話其實是看不到那樣的交流的契機 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8815.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8835.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那當然就是說台灣故宮有沒有促進台灣人對中國產生認同感我覺得這是兩回事因為欣賞一個重要的人類文化資產跟對中國產生認同感這個是兩回事我不認為說台灣的小學生或是大學生中學生去參訪故宮就變成是說被統戰了這個不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8837.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8837.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
好 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8867.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8889.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
最後20秒就是說您上任的時候你有許一個願望就是說要讓故宮回歸博物館的專業那當然除了讓板橋林家私人文物繼續利用公共資源寄存這個以外當然你另外一項的政策跟前院長大相徑庭的作為就是說在故宮改組這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8891.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8914.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
您跟吳院長的這個想法是不同的他是支持改立文化部那您是覺得改立文化部不是很好的選項剛剛有很多委員問你你也是這樣回答那我今天還是請院長負起責任的告訴大家你覺得故宮應該置身於哪個位階才能夠少一點建制而且可以回歸博物館的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8915.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8933.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
以我們跟人事總署請我們研究的計畫故宮最適合的組織定位當然第一個維持現狀第二個改立文化部第三個用基金的經營第四個行政法律這是一個顯像但是以目前來講為什麼當初沒有講呢因為它還沒有臨近社會的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8935.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8962.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
改立文化部主資緣額關係故宮的組織緣額預算可能會降低另外故宮同仁的研究員是比較學校教授副教授可是到了文化部以後他會降階所以這個部分牽涉到很多問題尤其是以現在來講故宮進行新故宮計畫還有改相違規整個展品的定位重新盤整的時候如果以現在作為過季列的組織改造的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8964.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8966.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
整個運作的情況是不利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8968.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8997.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
委員長當然組織改造牽涉到很多的政治層面可是我要跟你強調一下蘇院長曾經承諾過他說改例後錢也不會減少然後整個他會尊重專業考慮量人必據原則然後同仁的權益跟機關的經費一樣都不會少當初蘇院長是這樣承諾當然啦這個未來是新的院長可是我想這個整個的政策是延續性的所以我想這樣跟你報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8997.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9022.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我跟委員報告一下那另外一個選擇的話就是說如果以我的觀點來講的話現在的兩廳院如果當初維持是一個教育部教育部的首屬單位或是文化部的首屬單位現在的國家表演藝術中心絕對沒有現在的量能所以當然它是一個選項可是這個選項的話要有更多的社會共識跟討論好 了解 院長謝謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9031.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9031.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
吳春成議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9048.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9070.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
吳委員早蕭委員長好標題看起來就很恐怖看起來就很恐怖好這個延續啦這個因為最近我今天也看到很多人在關心接下來故宮的走向那所以我想想要了解一下這即將就職的賴政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9074.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9097.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
故宮的角色是什麼繼續的弘揚中華文化還是會降級為博物館那也希望啦因為上次3月7號的時候在跟院長的對話的時候其實我們有很多精彩的對話那但是可以看得到這個最不政治化的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9098.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9122.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
院長其實非常政治化你是政治高手你所有的話都會避開那個政治的地雷這個比如說我來問說故宮的產品是屬於我們國家的嗎你的回答說當然是我們國家的而且是屬於全世界的這個第一句對然後第二句就閃掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9125.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9145.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
中華文化是我們的嗎?中華文化是台灣文化非常重要的一部分,但是除了中華文化之外,我們還有各種文化,也要一併的重視。這都是院長很標準的回答,但是我可以看得出你的辛苦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9147.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9165.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我想在民進黨政府執政之下的故宮非常辛苦我也為我們故宮的同仁叫屈你們都是文化的專家對這些事情的內涵你們自有見解你們非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9167.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9180.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
但是就像我們的院長一樣你們要學會院長的功夫不然你們的未來前途堪慮處處都是危險 處處都是地雷這個肺腑之言 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9189.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9210.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
還是問一下 院長中華文化接下來還會是臺灣的重要文化嗎?上次你很肯定當然是當然是你覺得還是中華文化是臺灣文化重要的內涵之一內涵之一之一 還是之二好 OK OK 不要太為難你 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9215.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9235.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
中華文化其實我們上次有非常深入的探討這個文化其實在兩岸的關係之中現在講了就是說中華文化不是屬於廣義的中國的中華文化的那它是人類 全世界人類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9238.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9252.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這個說法有一點是 你的錢就是大家的錢我的錢是我的錢 你的錢也是我的錢世界文化遺產的概念 世界文化遺產的話 世界大同這個很有世界大同 財產的話跟資產的話是有一點點差異性 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9259.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9287.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
至於這裡我想最重要的是我們即將520上來的新政府怎麼看待故宮那最近就因為有一個新內閣的撤離會今天很多人在問那就是大家突然發現院長你沒有出席所以大家就傳說故宮要降級了那為什麼要 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9290.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9309.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
為什麼會有這一些傳言?因為其實在2020年的時候行政院就提出故宮的降級、隸屬於文化部的這一些說確實有在討論那原因就是其實在這裡故宮是一個文化的傳承 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9312.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9327.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
很重要的象徵還是只是一個博物館一個專業的博物館因為如果只是一個專業博物館列為部長級的閣議員的確在世界上也是蠻奇怪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9328.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9351.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那請問院長可能嗎?可能會被有這種歸屬的文化不得第一個傳故宮降級行政院一改三期獨立法人的第一個字是傳因為跟故宮的很多那個國寶作品一樣寫傳的話那不一定就是真的不一定就是真的但是你自己的覺得呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9352.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9368.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
各位報告一下沒有人正式約詢也沒有人正式跟我討論這個事情故宮內部也完全都沒有討論那沒有見面沒有出席搞不好是更好的事情喔搞不好是升級喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9370.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9388.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
會不會搞不好就是這個認為未來故宮要傳承更多的中華文化戰略的文化成為台灣重要戰略統戰大陸所以呢以故宮出發會不會有這種戰略的想法然後所以呢要把故宮改曆屬總統府 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9392.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9402.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
有可能嗎?這種預測基本上來講的話是我沒有辦法想像因為傳說故宮隸屬過總統府,但是從來都沒有你自己比較覺得可能會發生的? |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9410.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9439.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
不是因為個人位置的問題不是氣流的問題可是以目前故宮的狀況來講的話保留現狀的話讓它有一個穩定的發展過程的話我覺得是比較對故宮來講比較有利的因為現在在做工程現在在做庫房的改造然後空間的重新定位然後還要改相違規然後接下來要盤點如果我們去做比較變動比較大的組織改造的話會比較不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9441.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9468.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
維持現狀保持模糊一中各表反正就是這種模糊都很但是問題是新政府不曉得願不願意這樣做我想故宮院長的位置的棄由是長官決定那整個故宮的定位的話未來也是行政院決定那另外的話他一定要經過大院審議通過所以這個部分的話我只能做這樣的一個表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9469.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9494.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
好 這個當然就是 因為這個的模糊 為什麼說剛才為故宮的同仁教區就是說你們真的會很辛苦因為 你想要做專業 樹易盡而風不止就是你要好好的做事情 但是沒有人要讓你好好做事情那所以你要做任何事情 就動輒得就那 OK 包括你的建築 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9496.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9496.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
院長覺得呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9518.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9536.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
故宮這個建築其實它已經變成是臺灣的一個地景甚至地標在全世界的話只要出現這樣的一個畫面的話大家都知道是國立故宮博物院所以它代表臺灣的一個整體的形象我想這個是毋庸置疑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9538.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9558.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好 謝謝 所以 這個我們跳過去啦 這個因為最近有這些爭議啦 報死博款的玻璃屋 故宮也研議在外面的一個伸展 大家各方有不同的看法啦那這一個 院長接下來要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9559.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9560.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
新舊融合 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9575.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9575.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
院長你自己心裡你希望升格還是降格? |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9605.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9611.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
欸 降格有時候蠻好的喔一旦降格以後就不要再吵這些嘛大家好好做專業工作嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9612.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9612.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
姜濤議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9643.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9644.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
祝福院長一帆風順 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9666.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9690.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
首先跟葉委員在這裡鄭重道歉就上次的話就是有失禮的地方就請多多見諒那院長你就由來台上我想跟您請教一下第一個我看到您的報告講到故宮博物院嚴格前面有一句話就是說因為國寶文物因緣際會來到台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9693.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9711.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這個是第一頁你上面寫的因緣際會這因緣際會真的是把我們國寶來到台灣輕描淡寫你不曉得我們國寶來到台灣是多麼的千辛萬苦當初我們的國寶在南京當時的有志之士我們的先賢先烈為了怕這一批國寶遭受到日軍的摧毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9713.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9741.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
所以多少人拔山涉水要躲過日軍飛機的盤旋炸彈的攻擊然後過拔山涉水的時候千辛萬苦結果你們對於對國寶來台灣這個事情輕描淡寫就寫個因緣際會那難怪大家會對於你們保存國寶跟保護故宮的權利會覺得很沒有信心嘛所以今天為什麼一個照片出來大家會炸鍋當然你們有你們的解釋啊你們認為說那個人在旁邊3公分小書師 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9743.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9743.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
是不是小書師?是不是小書師? |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9769.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9771.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
所以你還是覺得是小疏失是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9788.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9805.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
你還是覺得很小疏失對不對?如果故宮的態度是覺得小疏失那所有為這些國寶擔心的民眾都白擔心了啦因為這種問題表現在你們心態上嘛你的心態認為小疏失代表以後還是可能會出現一樣的狀況啊你那麼認為是小疏失你就回答我這個問題是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9808.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9811.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
各位今天有故宮的人在國寶旁邊3公分簽這個字故宮院長的態度是小書師對於故宮的這樣的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9828.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9840.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我深表遺憾我強力譴責啊如果故宮院長認為這是小疏失的話大家怎麼能夠放心把國寶交給你們啊我請教一下那個國寶是吹白的還是真還假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9850.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9862.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
反正故宮很多出來展示的東西也不見得是真的啦所以才會這種態度啦所有人因為你的小疏失已經懷疑故宮展示的東西是假的你知道嗎你還是覺得小疏失 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9863.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9878.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
這是一個嚴重的錯誤你剛剛說小書詩你現在變嚴重錯誤到底是小書詩的嚴重錯誤當然是一個不精心的小書詩不精心的小書詩但是是一個嚴重錯誤你在講什麼你講的話你的小孩聽得懂嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9879.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9879.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
你覺得是? |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9905.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9919.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
院長是不是你就是要靠著你這三寸不爛之舌爭取你的故宮院長的位置是不是呃這無關氣流無關氣流因為同仁我認為你光是認為這個是一個小書師你就可以下台了啦還要繼續做 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9924.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9948.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
國寶我剛剛跟你講了所有的國寶是大家千辛萬苦運來的你說是因緣際會然後發生這種嚴重的事情全台灣的人都認為是嚴重的事情只有你故宮院長認為是小疏失千辛萬苦是在故宮的院史裡面都有記載千辛萬苦的確沒有錯對但是你報告過來就是因緣際會輕描淡寫然後對照你們最近做的事情我們故宮現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9952.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9977.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
故宮博物院裡面還有多少文物損壞?多少?還有多少文物損壞?還有多少文物損壞?沒有辦法用這樣一條線話說什麼叫做損壞因為文物的保存的狀況本來各有優劣有的保存的情況好有的本來進攻的狀況不好我現在問你還有多少損壞你就回答我的問題不敢講喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9979.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9996.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
有多少文物損壞嗎?我現在不是問你損壞的原因我現在是問你有多少文物現在是損壞還沒修復的?多少?損壞還沒有修復沒有辦法用這樣的講法大概我們有40件的代修的書畫40件代修的書畫還有咧? |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10000.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10013.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
現在的話 如果說以現在同仁給我的資料的話以送修的圖書文獻108件 然後書畫92件 器物55件 織品10件 正在修復然後目前代從表的有240件 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10015.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10017.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
請問一下,剛剛說器物有55件待修復對不對?這55件是怎麼壞掉的? |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10037.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10044.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
人是人為的?為什麼自然元素它會損毀?進攻的時候 譬如說它有一個關帽 它的珍珠本來就散掉了或是說一個大的馬老豬 它進來的時候就散掉了你說進攻之前就壞掉了?你們去年的時候 非常的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10063.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10091.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
公開的開了一個展示會說我們有三個國寶損壞嘛對不對有一個是紅字款的一個小碗康熙款的一個瓷碗還有一個是被你們弄壞的一個乾隆的青瓷盤結果你們開了一個展示會展示說欸我們修好了然後還大方的講說怎麼修復的過程有吧有結果我剛剛問你有多少袋修復你講了一大堆一拖拉鼓然後有的是進攻前就壞掉了你到現在都沒有修好 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10093.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10119.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
所以你們只做公關是不是不是 文物的修并不是說所有的文物都要修這個基本上來講沒有那個修那代修有多少我問你這基本的問題你都回答不出來還要看資料你一個故宮博物院院長不就是要保管好那些國寶嗎你還要看資料你應該倒背如流如數家珍欸我跟委員報告我剛剛問你問題答不出來還要下面給小抄 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10119.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10148.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我跟委員報告就是說所謂的損壞的程度不一然後他要修復的有的是譬如說天桿那邊黏一下就好了有的是說要把它整平有的要去背要重裱每一個狀況都不一樣所以沒有辦法講說是壞是啦那你到底那你我剛講嘛55個待修復什麼時候要修好嘛所以是不修還是怎麼樣你自己講待修復然後又說不一定要修然後又說修復的原因不一樣我們修復課長說這一季就會修好 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10148.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10162.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那你剛剛又講一大堆自己打臉自己喔院長們上一次質詢的時候有跟你講到網路上查到非常多有人把故宮的土檔拿去賣後來去追了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10164.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10192.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
最後我沒有發的公文也請淘寶往下加發給誰 發給公文我現在秀 我現在又沒有時間了啦我簡單秀 我簡單秀一下齁幾個問題喔 第一個去年曾經有人爆料啦說廈門有成立一家公司假冒的故宮的名義成立一個臺北故宮交流中心知道吧 知道這是吧知道 知道你們現在動作是怎樣 有去提告嗎提告了對不對有 有提告去年六七月的時候人家要檢舉了今年三月才提告 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10194.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10213.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
完了半年以後第二個這是台灣人在對岸成立的公司假冒故宮名義招搖撞騙結果你們有沒有找台灣的檢調協助去調查網友直接在講是苗栗等家公司有沒有找台灣檢調有那為什麼多多多慢查到了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10215.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10241.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?處長現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?我先秀給你看你知不知道現在抖音上面你知不知道現在抖音上面還有台北故宮交流中心你知道嗎?還在欸你說你去年6、7月人家跟你檢舉你今年3月你提告現在這個抖音還有一個台北故宮交流中心的帳號你現在去跟他對話他會毀你欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10243.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10243.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這個報告還沒有結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10271.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10289.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
沒有結案 結案報告都上傳了網路上都看得到 沒有結案你知道你們這個報告結論是什麼嗎第一個 我不曉得你們去這個跟故宮有什麼關係啦好 去研究南非南非怎麼樣去了解中國的全球秩序第二 你們知不知道你們參加這個會議之後結論是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10291.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10316.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
結論是說中國對於南非比較少用文化啦所以我們可以用文化去跟南非交流去鞏固我們友邦所以你們故宮故宮的工作到底是保存國保研究還是抗中保台啊跟委員報告你們怎麼會參加這種會議然後做出這樣的結論跟委員報告故宮也是搞抗中保台喔這是一個參與那一次會議的一個報告並不是所有的研究的報告我就是講一個新的結論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10318.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10319.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
不要去搞這些有的沒有的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10349.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10353.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
好 謝謝葉元之委員 院長請回 我們現在休息5分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10664.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10665.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我們現在繼續開會接下來請洪孟開委員質詢主席謝謝麻煩請蕭院長有請蕭院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10686.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10715.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
黃委員長院長故宮明年要迎來百歲的院慶但520將近到目前為止院長續任或是新人選都還不知道院長會不會覺得心裡不踏實或是有不尊重的感覺基本上來講這是一個憲政的常態就是說那個所有的部會首長都出來了只剩故宮院長還沒有出來這算常態以前有啊以前前兩天都有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10716.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10721.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
所以到目前為止你也沒有受到不管是新任卓榮泰院長的一個約詢或是賴清德總統的約詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10746.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10765.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
沒有我們現在也看到組織重整會不會降級故宮應不應該因為今天我們看到百年故宮部會級的博物館本席以及我們所有愛護文物的人大家也都非常關心院長你的態度是什麼故宮需要被降級嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10767.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10792.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
故宮博物院在整個全世界博物館的範例裡面的話就是院長是部長級就館長是部長級的室內可成員的話在世界上其實是少見但是也是因為故宮博物院有特殊的一個政治因緣關係所以他做這樣的一個組織設計那未來的話組織設計怎麼處理的話基本上來講的話是行政院的前者 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10793.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10818.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
也是尊重別人 不是 院長你今天在故宮博物院一天你應該是捍衛故宮博物院的尊嚴捍衛故宮博物院的主持你的主張是什麼我個人已經表達了以目前來講的話故宮保留現狀的話對現階段的發展來講的話是比較好所以不應該被降級尊重行政院的決定院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10820.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10842.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
過去您也擔任過很多的職務其實本席剛剛看你被很多委員來質詢本席心裡是五味雜陳啊為什麼我相信你也不會縱容你也不會允許說我們有策展人員在翠玉白菜旁邊簽字嘛這不是什麼小瑕疵或嚴重疏失一句話就可以講完了你的專業在哪裡為什麼現在左閃右閃左支右觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10849.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10864.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
是不是心有掛礙啊是不是心裡還在想說我現在講這句話會不會惹上層不高興不要政治正確用專業判斷可以嗎什麼小瑕疵什麼小失誤不能做的事情就不能做不是嗎國寶之所以為國寶就在於他的不可逆性 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10871.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10895.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
歷史的長留那麼久我們現在有幸在2024年還可以看到一千多年前兩千多年前的文物或是說幾百年前的文物這都是屬於人類的珍寶一個不小心如果今天摔壞了破碎了那個是後代子孫都沒有辦法看到的不是嗎那哪有什麼小書師大書師嚴重書師專業是這樣子的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10901.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10926.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
我想社會對故宮博物院不只是委員對故宮是零工人這個我非常非常的了解來院長我只是問這件事情是3月的事情對不對那到今天是5月8號5月7號還有人丟出來給委員爆料再對照現在故宮博物院院長職務還沒有確認本席不經懷疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10928.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10957.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
是不是內部有派系鬥爭有人虎視眈眈院長的位置所以故意在你今天有專案報告的時候前一天把3月的事情拿出來讓委員輪流來砲轟你有沒有這樣的狀況我想這是一個恰巧吧那當然不排除有這樣的一個猜測不排除有這樣的猜測所以你的位置坐不是很穩喔還是有什麼樣的勢力正虎視眈眈 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10960.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10981.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
在故宮博物院基本上來講是沒有秘密所有故宮博物院的內部的狀況的話基本上來講的話都會有人對外透露這個不是今天才開始這個是行之有年的一個工廠文化所以代表院長你也自己寶寶心裡苦寶寶不說 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10983.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11007.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
是不是在過去這一段時間其實坐這個位置也坐得如履薄冰戰戰兢兢啊我們盡量盡量在同仁兢兢業業的一個工作環境下然後把故宮整個說法來啦院長我們不要再打官話這樣子所以現在看起來就是民進黨內部還有在全力鬥爭院長這個位置還沒有坐實坐穩 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11008.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11031.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那現在又有爆發這樣的狀況但是對於我們民意代表要求只有一點今天不管誰在這位置上面對於國保的保護就是玲瓏人就那麼簡單所以我現在請教我現在請教在這件3月10號發生的事情裡面還有包括說有外人進出庫房那後面事後有沒有進行盤點清查跟檢視庫房裡面的文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11032.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11032.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
對內部人員的懲處跟對廠商的懲處是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11049.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11070.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
廠商的懲處的話,我們會一合一來裁判。現在他們還沒有處理出來。那另外的話,就是有關考機會的懲處的話,目前就是我們主席和副院長把他退回,請南院的話重新釐清,然後再重新送懲處的名單。 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11072.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11091.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
所以到目前為止過了多久的時間啊?兩個事情一個事情的話是庫房一個事情的話是吹白菜的事情吹白菜的話是因為台南美術館的話他才把那個整個結案報告送過來那目前的話他們還沒有簽到好什麼時候會出來?下個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11093.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11094.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11112.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11137.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
另外3月的時候有故宮的修復計畫說明會大家看到也有點嘩然是說我們要在故宮的大門口設定玻璃亭那當然羅浮宮、大英博物館也有現代化新舊融合的設計我們也看到了但是很多人講是說以依照文資法故宮不是應該早辦說明會、公聽會並且把相關的資料通知居民來參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11138.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11147.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
但故宮怎麼一開始在網路公告只有圖片沒有說明後來要求才揭露部分的簡報檔那我們想請教到底是在搞神秘還是說現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11149.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11169.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
你要大開大立大破大合針對百年故宮來做相關的一個淨土設計那不是更應該現在就說服跟讓大家知道讓大家來參與嗎跟委員報告就是工程的花包跟設計概念然後審查跟進入到實際設計細部設計他是一個流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11173.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11174.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
現在到哪一個進度? |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11193.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11197.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那第二次的修正計畫什麼時候會進行? |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11214.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11234.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這個基本上來講的話就要變成是他們調整了,因為原來的話再怎麼規劃的話也都是...院長,我們現在溝通一個觀念啦,我說因為今天出來大家媒體滑爛是說為什麼會在大門口的部分,其實對故宮來講這個百年設計,你還在做這個玻璃罩,然後你變成是放任廠商去做設計計畫,這樣也有點奇怪啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11237.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11266.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這是之前22年招標的時候有4個廠商4個廠商裡面有1個廠商設計1個玻璃入口院長我建議不要補充錢他竊貧中嫌院長這樣子感覺是對本席跟立院不尊重對不起我知道我知道你不是有心的對但是不要讓媒體拍到這畫面不好對不起鄭重道歉就說4家因為我比12344家裡面有一家竊貧中嫌我現在連比都不敢比 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11267.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11267.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11290.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11315.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
本席今天質疑的地方在哪裡在於是說3月的時候媒體報導出來說華蘭大家會覺得是說怎麼會突然間這樣的一個方向那還有更重要的是我退一萬步講阿會不會之後人走茶樑如果說假設520真的先開名單不是你那會不會之後下一個院長來又有下一個院長的想法完全又變更設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11317.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11329.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那到最後國人就不知道說我的百年故宮到底你的形狀長什麼樣那最合理的方式不是應該是先匯集大家的意見至少有一個一致的方向我們再來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11331.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11358.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我想這個部分的話剛委員指教的是就是說我們已經把所有的名譽跟媒體報導給那個設計團隊設計團隊什麼時候會再第二次出來設計團隊要送出去之前在送到文資審議之前的話我們會再召開說明會甚至邀請建築界的專家寫者然後來共同參與然後就是說這個時程是什麼時候送出去的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11360.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11386.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
你還會再召開說明會還會再召集專家學者那這個時程會在什麼時候下一任院長所以你是準備要走人了是不是沒有啦沒有啦基本上來講以現在的時程安排的話就差不多也要到五月之後五月嘛五月就是這個月所以這個月月底前會再召開說明會五月之後啊對啊五月之後就是大概六月份我們來召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11388.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11404.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
院長我們輕鬆歸輕鬆但是不能把方便當隨便我知道我現在在問的是時程就是說你剛剛已經講了我們會在第二次的設計變更之前再開說明會以及找專家學者那這個時程會預定在什麼時候工程是我們那個文物院長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11406.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11424.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
對你講出來的事情媒體會關注媒體關注會報導有興趣的民眾說明會大家就會去參與你現在要的是說明會大家來參與而不是說你今天偷偷摸摸辦了說明會大家不知道然後之後出來之後大家在華萊你再講說有啊五月辦過說明會不是這樣嘛對我不是要過場我要的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11428.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11455.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
院長告訴我們既然3月出來大家有華蘭那現在你也講了我們會從善如流再召開說明會那說明會什麼時候我們就告訴大家我們比如6月會有說明會有興趣的媒體拜託大家來說明會了解一下來跟委員報告一下那我們資料已經在4月底送文化部文資會了那接下來我們會在6月6月 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11457.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11461.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
6月則一天開說明會是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11463.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11486.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
審查那個當然我這樣說就是說我不能建業值錢其實委員所以沒有說明會不是委員也可以安排一個故宮考察然後我們現在不是叫我們安排考察是說明會6月會辦我再質詢你你剛剛講出有說明會現在又說沒有了說明會6月會辦所以根本沒有說明會是不是6月會辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11487.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11512.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
六月會辦跟同仁協調了六月我們會辦一個說明會邀請建築界的專業人員來好六月會辦針對故宮大門口的這一個工程的說明會那也請時間地點確認之後也發函給本席以及我們教育文化委員會的委員並且廣為周知希望能夠邀請大家有興趣關心的民眾可以共同參與這樣可以嗎可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11515.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11544.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
最後不好意思主席30秒518這次翠玉白菜是因為518博物館節那我們南院有辦活動那北院呢北院的國際博物館日也有辦活動但我剛剛上來之前查我們官網並沒有看到任何一個518的活動那還有明年是故宮百年百歲的願慶我們現在策劃特殊的展覽有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11546.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11572.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
有一個故宮100PLUS的一個完整的計畫好 請在今天下班前給本席就是針對518博物館日北院的活動以及明年百歲院慶的相關計畫好不好我們一起共同來慶祝至少這個是臺灣的大事我們中華民國的大事也是世界的大事我們都希望故宮把它辦好謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝洪木文凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11577.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11577.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
楊瓊英議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11602.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11621.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
到目前為止沒得到證據到民間的慣例的話當過教授就會叫教授當過院長的話就會叫院長不要開玩笑這不是開玩笑這是國會他不在學校學校也不可以開玩笑你當什麼職務稱呼什麼怎麼會有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11626.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11642.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
國保的守護者這樣子的回答呢?你認為你剛剛的回答適當嗎?你今天早上到現在已經道歉幾次了我覺得非常訝異我非常的敬重你因為我知道你壓力非常的大內鬥的情況是否讓你語無倫次?是不是?一個教授不應當如此的 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11653.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11658.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
接下來本席要請教當一個院長是不是就是一個國保的守護者 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11659.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11683.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
當然是當然是OK恢復正常接下來本席要再請教故宮的位階是非常重要本席都是全力以赴全國的民眾我相信也都全力以赴因為國寶是難能可貴我們要怎麼保護它所以故宮它是一個非常重要的一個機構是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11685.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11707.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
故宮當然是我們最重要台灣最重要的一個博物館機構故宮的位階當然不能下降對不對不能降級對不對故宮的所有同仁我想也是一直有這樣的一個想法但你擔任目前你擔任院長你的想法呢故宮不能降級是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11708.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11733.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我也認為故宮目前維持形態的話是比較平順針對本題問題提問不能降級對不對對我們國家來講他是一個正面的所以故宮不能降級因為一個人如果心裡沒文化就等於沒靈魂啊對不對故宮的位階不能下降嘛對不對不能降級認不認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11736.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11747.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
我剛剛已經說明過了就是故宮的同仁包括我自己都是這樣的想法對你就直接回答院長你壓力不用大你不能壓力大到口無倫次啊對不對所以接下來本席要請教5月4號的策立營沒有唯獨沒有我們故宮院長這怎麼回事啊這個政府不重視我們的國保嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11767.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11768.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
我們要面對的是大家舉國歡騰的百歲願慶 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11787.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11796.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
百歲願慶因為我們從1965年開始開館到現在好不容易百年這是國家舉騰歡喜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11798.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11826.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我們準備好了嗎?目前的進度有按照你們可內控的範圍在進行嗎?我們已經有一個規劃但是這個計畫沒有盡早提出是因為它牽涉到預算的邊內金融的預算才會送出去如果預算還沒有送出去的話我們就去先是說我們要做哪些事情的話基本上來講所以本席請教就是在你目前你們的進度當中還是你們可控的範圍內嗎?當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11830.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11838.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
所以本席再請教為什麼大家都公布了只有故宮的院長不公布是因為這個政府認為故宮不重要嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11840.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11840.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所以院長請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11870.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11891.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
本席也藉道檢舉你們翠玉白菜等15件國寶藉道南部去展出那這個紙筆距離國寶不到3公分3公分是多寬啊這樣子的行為對於我們的國寶人民的希望你認為你們問題出在哪裡雖然你極速的下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11896.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11898.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
本席不希望這樣國際的笑話被笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11926.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11932.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我們台灣這麼尊嚴這麼有氣質這麼有文化保護我們的國寶怎麼可以如此呢從3月到現在今天5月8號你要怎麼處置你要好好的處置因為這不能成為國際的笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11950.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11952.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
故宮難管外包清潔人員上傳我們的庫房事件有沒有這回事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11972.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11998.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
這個不是擅闖而是說故宮在清空庫房然後製作新的櫃架然後清潔人員進去清掃那當然沒有錯就是說所有的程序要進庫的人都要簽報到院長這邊簽報到首長這邊同意但是廠商私自換了兩個同仁那因為戴口罩的關係所以同仁沒有化解這的確是廠商的一個惡意的行為這個我們會用採購法相關的條文來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12001.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12003.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
哇 院長你這麼回答內部鬥爭 外部不知所措那我們故宮的國寶要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12011.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12039.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
所有的程序都沒有照SOP流程那個清空的庫房基本上來講一般人是沒有辦法進入到文物的庫房那為什麼呢外包的清潔人員就可以進便宜形式啊不是便宜形式他本來就是在施工之後進去清掃這個是既定的一個程序而且清掃還要分兩次對啊但是他沒有照SOP流程啊院長你也不知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12040.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12043.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
把制度制定好 除了制定制度 而且要管控執行力嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12053.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12079.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
所以下個禮拜我會請我們長官然後到南院去開一個檢討會議就是說把南院的相關的法規制度請他們重新盤點然後就是盤點請你們預計要怎麼應對請書面資料給本席最後一個議題1965年開館到目前我們的建物管線設施老舊甚至屋頂會漏水 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12080.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12096.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
你有沒有去盤點到底我們相關的工程你預計要怎麼樣去完成你的抗爭能力要怎麼樣去應對你多久定期去巡視你的文物跟室內各空間的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12098.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12106.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
師傅是不是就請院長用書面來跟楊委員報告好不好因為時間已經超過3分鐘了不好意思所以也請院長針對本席最後的議題請你詳時書面資料給本席我們一定要作為國保的守護者這個論點你同意吧同意故宮責無旁貸好謝謝楊瓊瑛委員院長請回我們接下來請吳思堯委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12135.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12135.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
有請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12144.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12166.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
故宮同仁大家辛苦久違了我現在在政治位比較重的司法法治委員會可以回來跟故宮的朋友一起談談文化我覺得非常的氣質優雅了起來那我想故宮要百年了我們不只要當台灣的國寶我們要當世界文化的瑰寶所以我就很快的切入下面的面向下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12170.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12190.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
院長如果是女性故宮就不再是國寶我想沒有人會認同這個說法沒有人會認同下一頁那我也去做了功課世界知名的博物館確實女性擔任館長真的寥寥無幾大都會博物館11任館長都是男性 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12191.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12214.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
北京故宮九任都是男性而香港新誕生的故宮一任也是男性大英博物館呢23任的館長就只有一位女性是1999年到2001年所以故宮能不能夠走在世界的最前面呢我們常常會自比我們是世界四大博物館我們一定會跟羅浮宮比 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12215.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12241.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
羅浮宮2021年迎來首位女館長那個時候在國際的文化圈是傳為美式喔這個新任的這個Laurence Descartes她過去當奧賽的美術館的館長她也當過局員的館長在職的期間讓兩個博物館都是訪客人數創下新高所以當馬克宏總統任命她為羅浮宮新任館長在2021年的時候真的世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12242.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12249.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
一片的肯定打破了性別的天花板在重要的博物館領域那台灣呢下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12250.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12279.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
其實我也去做了我們11任的館長迄今其實台灣非常的進步我們有三任女性館長 對不對從林曼麗從周公新到馮明珠三位傑出的館長所以在博物館的兩性平權上台灣領先國際台灣走在最前面所以性別意識絕對在台灣是一個高度被highlight被promote的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12280.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12282.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
當然我們還是在任命上以專業為主但我做了這些整理就是要說告訴大家故宮是一個能夠讓專業發聲能夠讓性別的平衡跟性別的平等被實踐的偉大的博物館我們要繼續下去下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12300.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12318.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那現在故宮的一級主管喔男性有9位女性有7位其實43%已經是很高了但如果我也要鼓勵我們廣大的女性夥伴們在故宮我們的把著只要夠優秀大家都有機會擔任主管管我們繼續為女性來加油喝彩喔下一頁好說到下一個主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12326.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12353.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
有沒有去中國化呢我真的覺得非常的訝異我長期投入故宮的新故宮計畫我也跟長期台灣的建築美學界是最常在對話的一個立法委員當我赫然發現媒體在炒作故宮因為要設計了一個玻璃亭就被炒作成中國化我赫然發現他是有時間點上的怪異跟巧合 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12354.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12358.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
就當時間來到關鍵的4月7號到4月十幾號也就是馬英九前總統訪問中國的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12367.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12390.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
故宮因為增設了要設計規劃這個玻璃亭就由媒體開始說是去中國化這是台灣的媒體但我也赫然發現在中國的媒體也隔海的唱和說民進黨當局搞去中國化要給台北的故宮毀容不如把文物還給中國吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12393.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12407.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我在這裡點出來的是這是一個有政治操作的意圖博物館就回到博物館的專業建築就回到建築的專業文資修復就回到文資修復的專業下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12409.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12420.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
這個是故宮整建方案他事實上故宮在2020年被列定為歷史建築所以所有的修復增建需要送文資審查嘛而事實上這個玻璃亭建築團隊也已經下降了他的高度顏色也做了調和但我要再次強調我只是陳述事實他做過調整跟折衷但是可不可以通過文資審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12436.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12459.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
讓文資會去決定我無權置會只是我要陳述在這個過程當中他需要有文資審查一關而且剛剛院長講得非常好這是一個經程序公開得標的廠商他有廠商履約的合約保障再加文資審查的必要程序未來有 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12460.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12465.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
公聽會非常好事實上我也要說我們開了四次公聽會不是嗎2022年開了兩場2024年的3月1號2號都開了公聽會針對建築的新設計不是嗎我們開了四場的公聽會不是沒有公聽會因為我長期關心故宮新故宮計畫所以我來這裡多做一些陳述喔下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12487.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12495.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我最後要說世界各大博物館我吳思瑤因為我是個建築迷我是個藝術迷我都去過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12496.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12524.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
因為世界知名的博物館它都是適用沿用過去的老建築也許是宮殿也許是其他的功能所以因應新時代的需要它必須要擴建而且很重要的是改變它的出入動線故宮這次的玻璃亭也是符合新故宮計畫的兩個目標對不對?增加展場面積以及要把出入口的動線改得更好是不是我們這次新故宮計畫的原始目的嗎?是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12525.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12545.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
所以羅浮宮1989年被運名改了金字塔我們看2000年大英博物館Norman Forster也是用一個玻璃窮頂我們來看看2002年日本的安藤忠雄的東京國際兒童圖書館也是出入口的動線必要改了一個玻璃亭乃至於青木村2020年我也剛剛去回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12548.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12548.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我分享這些案例我是要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12565.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12591.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
在貝育銘改羅浮宮的時候沒有人說這是在去法國化在Norman Forster在改大英博物館的時候英國人沒有說這是在去英國化就連最新的日本從安藤忠雄到青木淳在改重要的博物館的動線的門口玻璃的設計的時候也沒有人說這在去日本化所以請讓建築回到專業這是我的請求我也做這樣子的論述 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12592.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12593.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
王洪威委員蕭院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12616.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12630.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
院長好我要特別講對於未來的整個的意向的改變也就是有關入口庭的部分我覺得我們的同仁有任何的意見這都是應該被尊重的而不應該又去貼親中的標籤或者是跟中共和聲呼應所以我覺得對剛才吳思堯委員的講話我要予以完全的抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12643.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12668.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
那另外就是今天我想很多的議題都是談到就是我們的翠玉白菜出借給北美館然後所發生的爭議台南美術館對不起台南美術館沒錯台南美術館那因為剛才其實很多的委員都特別提到這件事情的嚴重性但是呢因為時間關係我要就教院長的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12670.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12689.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
過去我們的翠玉白菜有出借的歷史第一個出借給日本因為日本很喜歡故宮的我們的相關的國寶另外在2013年也就是我們故宮南院開幕之前曾經出借給高雄美術館 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12690.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12704.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
另外就是曾經在台中舉辦花博的時候出借給花博而這次出借給台南美術館我不曉得他的目的是什麼他的考慮是什麼院長我給你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12705.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12727.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
臺南美術館到故宮南院你開車一個小時就到了如果你坐高鐵一站就到了所以如果過去不管是我們的翠玉白菜在故宮南院因為非常受歡迎一再的延長那是因為南部的民眾他們喜歡希望能夠多看看我認為很合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12728.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12734.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
或者過去因為沒有故宮南院那麼在高雄的美術館我覺得也可以接受但是他不以頻率過長可是像在故宮南院展得好好的請問一下他到台南美術館展出的目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12748.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12765.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
以我來看就是去幫台南美術館去衝它的流量而已啊衝它的人數的這個數量而已所以我要講的是如果我們的翠玉白菜變成青菜一樣隨時的可以到附近的一個美術館來展出的話那我請問一下同樣的道理新北市他們現在正在蓋美術館 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12772.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12779.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
好 等到它蓋好的時候是不是臺北市也應該到新北市呢新北市到臺北市車程也是這麼遠啊是不是也是要同樣比照辦理或者蘭陽美術館他們也有很不錯的環境那麼是不是我們蘭陽美術館他們就是沒有來申請啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12790.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12805.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
所以我要講的是我們是不是可以針對我們的國版的初屆應該要有一套制度而不是今天來申請就可以去初屆結果今天就造成今天的這樣的狀況院長你同意嗎我們初屆的目的到底是什麼如果要給南部的民眾來看在故宮南院不可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12819.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12834.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
跟委員報告因為這個是新故宮計畫裡面的第三項紙計畫然後這個紙計畫的名稱叫國寶出優趣所以他有一個作業辦法讓相關的博物館可以來申請那當然沒有說院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12835.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12850.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
世界主要的博物館會把自己的國寶隨便的出借嗎我的意思就是說如果要到南部故宮南院絕對足夠如果你們按照這樣的方式全台灣各縣市離島更應該來申請啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12853.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12857.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
你們借不借呢?所以我在這邊因為時間有限我希望你們重新的去檢討這個辦法否則的話以後新北我一定建議他們新北趕快來借為什麼台南可以借新北不能借呢?蘭陽美術館應該立刻來借啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12872.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12887.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
所以這樣的方式不對所以我跟你講當時在台中的部分當時大家就說是不是要搶救林佳龍的選情就叫花博花博到底跟我們的國寶有什麼關係那時候去出界幫他衝流量 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12887.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12895.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
因為人數要增加那台南美術館也是一樣啊所以我真的覺得這個辦法真的要有問題另外趕快補充一下剛討論很多我們的入口印象因為在史博館出現這樣的爭議兩邊的意見相持不下這代表什麼呢代表溝通不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12909.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12912.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
因為連當時去參加審議的學者他都沒有想到是把那個使博物館的正門是打動的所以基本上當你們這個入口庭大家可能也有很多的建議還沒有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12927.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12954.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以我建議你們在這個部分應該要充分的去溝通不要像史博館一樣現在已經不可逆除非你再把它棄回去它也不是原來的建物了所以不管史博館也好尤其故宮更是洞見觀瞻世界四大博物館之一我希望你們能夠做更充分的溝通不要等到做完了之後又出現社會這麼大的一個爭議好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12958.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12972.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
發言報告故宮博物院結論會審慎的來處理好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝王洪文委員 院長請回我們接下來請黃婕委員黃婕 黃婕委員不在我們請羅廷偉委員好 謝謝主席 有請院長好 有請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12987.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13010.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
好 院長好 院長今天的專題主題報告叫做回首百年放眼未來故宮定位與部會級博物館公共責任總檢討明年故宮要100年了理論上我覺得今天這個專報內容應該要涵蓋非常多面性甚至可以做一個歷史的總回顧但我們可以看到整個專題的報告只有15頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13012.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13041.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
目錄卻只有前言故宮回應當代的社會責任具體的成果未來展望本席就簡單用幾句話來統整一下前言就是故宮官網裡面的成立嚴格及定位故宮回應當代社會責任具體的成果內容林立卻很鬆散反而讓人家覺得更找不到故宮的定位未來展望的內容則是非常短有提到希望用文化軟實力立足全球 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13042.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13070.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
讓國立故宮博物院成為世界的故宮但具體要怎麼做沒有規劃沒有頭緒這份報告很像小學生前一天臨時要寫功課忘記寫了當天急救章向老師交代一下不知道是不是因為520要準備了我們現在不想認真去規劃520之後的事情總而言之整份報告我看起來空洞沒有什麼實質的內容有待改進那我也想跟你請問幾個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13072.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13086.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
2022年有這樣子的一個新聞報導放在故宮就是國寶嗎專家證實翠玉白菜不是那我想請問一下到底現在翠玉白菜是不是什麼國寶人氣國寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13095.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13114.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
人氣國寶啦齁在官網上我記得他的官網的這一個行業啊有稍微寫到他是國寶會萃或者是相關的國寶典藏在這個網頁上所以在民眾的觀感就覺得這是國家的寶貝國寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13115.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13141.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那當然你們把它列為文物啦那這又讓我們再看到這個2022年相關的一個報導裡面都有提到有所謂的膠黃釉綠彩龍紋碗被打破那當時的故宮院長說這個是文物不是國寶那當然文物跟國寶有所謂的這個差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13142.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13169.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那我們但是對於國人的認定上來說放在故宮都是非常非常重要的東西那今天又看到我們有這樣子的一個新聞我想今天你應該不只一位了啦相信很多的立委都非常關切這件事情我都覺得非常非常的讓我感嘆啦覺得說在這樣子的一個畫面真的是讓所有的國人都為之震撼 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13170.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13185.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
您可以想像國人現在的觀感嗎?院長一再強調這是一個嚴重的錯誤不能因為一小小的疏忽的話然後就是把故宮的形象毀一旦 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13186.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13214.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我想現在不僅僅我們要面對的是相關人等的一個處分而已我們要的是未來不要再發生我們要的是未來不允許我們更希望每一個人慎重的面對每一個故宮裡面的文物甚至是國寶我想星期一本期在地方有行程我們有重大的考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13215.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13217.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我先想請問一下我的選區有國立美術館您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13242.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13269.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我原來就是國美館的館長是是是有沒有機會借給國美館展覽一下南美館可以國美館可不可以依照現在的故宮出遊區的辦法基本上是可以是可以的齁也希望您如果台中有需求能夠就近照顧台中啦但是現在我們看到的這一個新聞事件典藏人員竟然直接在翠玉白菜旁邊簽名我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13270.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13299.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
企務處長吳處長有說這個清點的程序照標準作業流程我想這些都是說辭今天我也不再探究這個說辭的內容我想我還是回到剛剛那句話故宮點手的是中華民國的文物資產尤其歷史文化傳承應該受到最嚴格最嚴格的一個監督我們看到的現在這樣的畫面我們希望未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13300.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13320.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
您要大刀闊斧的將這些SOP將這些未來的流程都把它定定的就猶如我們現在應該要克尊職守的一個憲法一樣的重要把這些規則、流程把它當成是要進入 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13321.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13348.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
我們故宮每一個人員應該要克尊的一個憲法來保護著我們所有所有的文物還有國寶兩三年前故宮打破了三項文物前院長蘇貞昌說要把過去落伍的保存文化檢查方法好好改革才對得起整個文物的保存不是要改革嗎改革到哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13349.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13369.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
故宮把文物送出去的策展已經不是第一次了5月1號才要定SOP我想這件事情還是民眾在這個粉絲專頁爆料才可以知道這件事我們民眾真的對於這件事情都非常非常的膽戰心驚都非常愛惜國寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13371.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13389.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
今天您會在這邊稍微會排這樣子的一個專題我想也有相對應的一個希望重視我們回首所有故宮的復出跟所有的歷史到現在我們看到這個事件的發生我想整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13390.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13405.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
故宮不僅僅是在未來的展望我們更希望故宮應該要好好想想到底發生了什麼問題我們不要只是怪基層員工我們也應該要好好想想到底這些有沒有好好監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13406.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13423.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
流程改革這些長官到底誰應該要負責任難道這一次只是單純的典藏人員處罰完還是處長處罰完我想這部分都應該不是我們希望看到所有所有的面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13424.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13443.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
不是看到處罰就好啦我們要看到的是未來不會再發生未來能夠讓大家真的膽戰心驚去把這些文物出展的一個過程把它給完成好不好我們希望故宮從以前到現在已經歷清了三次的大清典民國40到43年 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13445.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13457.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
民國七十八到八十年民國九十七到一百零一年現在雖然之前都有二十年一次的全院大新年但鑒於故宮近年來對文物的頻頻不小心我認為是應該籌組一個小組盤點所有文物的狀況來做一個大 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13464.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13492.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
清點你們的一個SOP還有這些狀況好好的統整之後我們來做一個專案小組來如何規劃當然時間現在也非常的不足我要對你做一些相關的其他詢問但是我要講的是人力不足也是故宮現在我們看到的一個問題我們現在看到故宮僅有16人肩負維護70萬件的一個文物責任其實真的很不容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13493.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13500.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
我們這一點也要幫故宮講話但我們更希望人力不足到底現在該怎麼辦欲缺不補 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13501.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13526.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
根據檢察院的調查故宮檢任以上的部分職缺出缺兩年至四年後才可以進行人員的增補代表外界的餘力並非空虛來風我們希望原額授勸於人事行政總署故宮身為世界級的博物館擔負國內博物館的領頭羊之使命如何持續挹注優秀的人才確保國際的博物館地位與水準我希望這一週內能夠檢討報告給本辦公室院長可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13531.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13548.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
可以跟委員報告一下故宮會記起教訓以後不會再換另外的話那個標準作業流程本來就有只是散落在過處所以我5月1號是把它整合到一個通則上面未來我們會出版一個手冊所以這個部分的話我們會積極來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13550.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13578.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
謝謝你謝謝院長其實我都知道一定會有作業流程但是問題就是你的作業流程還會出現這個問題我覺得是落實的問題那為什麼他不落實那是不是相對應的大家並不重視我想不管同仁的專業素養信念的話要再加強我想這個事件我們不需要再看到了好不好尤其對我們來說對不起每一件文物都是中華民國的國寶謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13584.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13586.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
蘿婷薇委員林倩琦委員蕭院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13608.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13635.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
林院長好我首先很感謝上一回我們在質詢故宮的時候我們講到故宮的百年計畫院裡面的同仁也很早就在4月初就給我相關的計畫內容非常感謝相較於其他有一些部會經常漏掉我想院裡面在這個部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13636.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13663.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
的這個作為其實還蠻有效力的那我今天就針對幾點來跟院長這邊做一個瞭解跟溝通那當然早上很多委員講到一些事也都是一些重點那當然大家遲遲一直沒有等到這個院長的任命那當然對我而言就朋友來講我是常常還能夠看到你我會蠻高興的那但是在這個文化上我們總會覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13666.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13687.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
前幾天行政院辦了一個新兵訓練我看了一下故宮沒有那沒有可能就會引起大家很大的一個想法究竟是因為故宮太easy了所以在質詢的這個部分可能也不需要再去做一些強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13688.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13703.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
還是說那未來會有像剛才其他一些委員的一些懷疑跟質疑那是我最不想見到的就是談到故宮組織定位的這個未接的這個問題所以我很期待不會是像後者 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13704.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13705.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
前面的訓練及任命 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13721.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13746.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那故宮相較來講是比較不是那麼政治敏感度的一個內閣成員的一個公佈那相較比較獨立也不是一件壞事那我很期待就像您講的那您這個專業的一個回應確實是代表了如果真的是這樣子的話那我們文化還有希望那如果是本席剛才的一些想像或者是猜測或者是今天企劃委員問的這些問題那 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13749.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13767.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
文化上就會讓我非常的擔心所以就謝謝貴院然後也對於這個院長的任命我們還是期待賴準總統就職所剩下的日期不多那我們期待能夠早些知道那當然我們也很希望能夠繼續看到院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13769.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13796.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
好那另外呢今天的起點就是我對於這個任命的這個部分希望能夠趕快然後另外就是組織的這個部分也期待雖然不是院長這邊能夠做的那剛才幾位委員講的降級萬萬不行那翠玉白菜的事我們就不想再講了不過我想跟你講個就是就朋友間的一個發生的這個狀況啦這個翠玉白菜確實很重要因為我 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13797.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13819.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
今年有兩位波蘭的朋友來到台灣然後他們一定要去故宮我說故宮好好那我們有機會帶你去故宮那你有沒有最期待的想要看什麼他說我們要看CabbageCabbage什麼Cabbage講到最後原來是Jet Cabbage就我們的翠玉白菜所以當然很多委員這邊關心說翠玉白菜的這個前幾天有人在那邊簽名那很擔心他的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13821.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13821.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13843.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13865.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
大家雖然都關心這一點我這邊有一個比較很實質的大層面的問題我要跟您這邊就教就是在目前我們看起來好像還是兩岸有一點兵凶戰危的氛圍下我想請教一下我們過去八國聯軍的時代我們知道這些海權強國對於文化還有國寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13868.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13868.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
致詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13889.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13897.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
請問故宮的文物現在怎麼處理?怎麼藏好?或者是怎麼分散到世界各地跟我們同等級的一些博物館做一個交流? |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13899.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13917.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
原則上故宮的文物送到國外的話除了正常的交流之外的話我們並沒有這個現象所以故宮我自己講還是台灣所有的博物館裡面對文物保存最專業而且庫房的安全性最高的一個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13918.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13932.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
那我有機會知道這樣一個保存計劃嗎因為我突然有點擔心那院裡面有機會來跟我說明或就是讓我放心嗎因為最近我常常聽到有人說這是國安問題國安問題然後資料不提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13934.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13953.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
本身也有接到這樣一些訊息那我當然希望能夠有一個這個庫房能夠在這樣一個狀況下能夠確保我們文物的安全假設在兵兇戰危的情況下我們故宮博物院最重要的就是裡面的館藏那裡面的國寶跟文物那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13954.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13979.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
這不是選項但是假設發生那是不是這個時候我要提醒一下這個院裡面我不知道有沒有以前的計畫那如果沒有可能這個選項也要稍微做一下討論跟委員報告一下因為故宮博物院現在是國家重要的安全設施所以國土辦的話是把門列管隨時都會來做一個檢測所以這個部分的話我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13980.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14003.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
故宮的文物未來都是在山洞或是在地下的庫房,它的安全性相對是比較高的。好,那如果能夠提供相關的資料給我,就麻煩提供。那如果有困難,那就麻煩院裡面我們找個時間我來了解一下,因為這我們不希望發生,但是或許這個可能性是有的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14005.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14027.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
那今天有關於這個故宮的部分剛才也有很多人談到你們這個文化資產雖然歷史建築也經過幾次的一個開會然後在這個整個大計畫裡面建築的部分也有一些整修那許多人也做了一個提醒有關於玻璃屋的這件事那因為前段時間有去史博館那前面的那個無障礙空間的這個玻璃 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14029.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14050.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
雖然不是玻璃屋不過也是玻璃穿透可是擋住牆面的這樣一個工程也是被很多的建築師這邊有意見所以我在這邊還是提醒因為裡面雖然有一些法規那但是在法規的容許的範圍裡面那我們應該要做到公共性的最大化 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14050.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14052.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14072.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14095.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
希望能夠讓某些委員已經跟你們要函那是不是本席這邊也可以有一個說明會的一個相關的函文那讓我知道這個時間那我們也可以至少讓公眾知道那能夠讓故宮之後的這個修復比較不會有先前的問題但是我覺得都不是館長的問題啦都是這個大家承接那出現了這樣一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14097.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14097.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
指導委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14117.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14143.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
兒童暨青年事務委員會警官諮詢會還有博物館兒童青年議題那這些策展當然是一定啦那是不是可以請貴院這邊提供給我這幾個委員會開會的次數然後還有他們提的一些建議那當然如果這個真的是很有用的話那有取代掉這個指導委員會的功能而且真的是有效度的話那我們當然樂見 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14144.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14158.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
只是我從這個字面上就想說那個好像除了策展警官那其他幾個有點比較覺得比較新穎那是不是就請提供這樣一個資訊給我然後讓我們來討論一下這個指導委員會跟這些個別的委員會中間的一些差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14165.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14194.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
最重要的就是我覺得現在的館長擔負的責任都很大那我們知道博物館就以蕭院長這樣一個層級那如果都還這麼無力的話其實我們的文化包括行政包括立法我們都要很努力的來維護然後推動所以我今天就只能這樣子最後就是這個指導委員會所以請院裡面再多做一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14195.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14209.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
最後 院長你這個階段雖然你不一定會覺得你搞不好很想繼續跟我打乒乓球不一定會我期待你能夠接受如果被留任 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14210.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14231.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
你或許有自己某一些規劃但是您在故宮的這段時間可不可以最後給我們一個您在這段時間想要給公眾的一個價值的建議也就是說您在這個位置上那期待我們對故宮的一個認識然後故宮的一個定位跟故宮對整個文化上的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14232.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14247.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
大家其實覺得說我的講話太籠統可是故宮博物院的保藏的確是人類共同的一個文化資產所以故宮博物院包括我自己包括所有成員都會守護這些文物哪怕是國寶重要 大家暱稱國寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14249.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14275.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
作為一個重要使命所以過去大家討論的部分我們都會依照委員的意見的話我們來重新省思那另外的話有關成立專業委員會的部分其實我成立警官委員會的目的就是未來故宮博物院不管南北院在做改建或者警官處理的時候都有一個專業的單位可以來執行不會說像昭京的狀況發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14278.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14305.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
好 那謝謝院長最後還是這句話祝福院長也祝福故宮博物院跟我們所有的國立的博物館謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝林倩琦委員好 院長請回接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在我們請王美惠委員王美惠 王美惠委員不在接下來我們請范雲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14311.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14314.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
院長武安,今天想跟您請教的也是故宮的責任關於經濟弱勢族群的文化禁用權本來是要先問您有錢立委針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14335.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14354.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
故宮說女性出任院長故宮就不是國寶了那我有看到秀寶委員有問過嘛您已經回應了當然不是這樣但是我想請問蕭院長就是很高興您公開表達對性別平等的支持那您知道我們過去有幾位女性擔任過院長嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14356.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14384.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
十一位院長中間有三位擔任過院長而且都是非常傑出的女性對沒錯其實我們十一位裡面因為連同你已經有三位了我們算了一下數學已經超過四分之一只是未達三分之一所以這個前立委這種公開性別歧視的希望以後院長或故宮有機會就要告訴大家其實我們有就是超過四分之一未達三分之一是 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14385.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14399.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
女性的故宮院長請大家不要忽略他們不分黨派對於故宮的貢獻我想這部分也跟院長很高興您知道我們的確是有超過1⁴還沒到1的女性院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14403.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14413.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
今天我想針對您的報告裡面都有提到多元跟文化的平權想請問院長對經濟弱勢群體我們看了一下故宮的門票政策發現這裡面有針對年齡的針對身心障礙者針對學生還有一些國際博物館等榮譽會員這些可是沒有針對經濟弱勢群體的照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14430.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14444.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
那不知道院長覺得現在這樣子您覺得足夠了嗎跟委員報告就是說現行的年齡未滿18歲或是學生那65歲以上很可惜65歲的話是平日免費 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14445.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14447.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
本國學生的話其實我們包括國外的學生持學生證都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14462.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14485.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
那當然對於經濟弱勢族群的話故宮有一個海灣故宮百萬鞋子由故宮然後南苑的話也有那個故宮的一個方案那基本上我們用自己的一點預算然後再跟外幕的經會我們邀請高中職以下的學生弱勢偏鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14485.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14496.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
然後可以由故宮來知乎會用然後邀請他們到故宮然後甚至相關的那個管所去參訪這個部分的話我們用專案的方式來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14497.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14517.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
對,用專案當然就是這也是一種方法可是是不是最好的方法我覺得我們就是做一個國際的博物館的比較那我們辦公室去研究了一下一些主要的博物館以法國的羅浮宮跟奧賽博物館你在它的網站上就看得非常清楚羅浮宮還有奧賽博物館針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14521.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14533.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
臺業者其實就可以免費看這兩個博物館對於法國領最低生活保障金者也都可以免費看因為經濟上的貧窮其實就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14536.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14536.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
西班牙 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14554.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14579.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
還有我們辦公室有查到的還有像希臘非常有名的雅典的未成博物館這我去看過非常值得進去看那都是有支持這些經濟的弱勢群體那您剛剛講到的某一些那我們辦公室有看到故宮一年其實有五天是免費可是你看一下德國的柏林他有博物館日 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14580.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14596.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
是所有的德國的70個博物館都參加了他們每個月就有一天是免費全面開放所以我想針對這個文化平權的事情雖然我們故宮有一些了 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14597.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14598.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14612.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14613.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
我辦公室還幫你查了我說我們要看看是不是人太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14630.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14654.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
後來發現其實你們假日一百一十二年非假日平均是來三千六百六十四人北部假日六千三那如果你開放就是免費的時候其實一月一號是八千人元宵節超過六千五月十八九月二七五千多人只有十月十號國慶日一萬三千多人所以其實這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14656.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14674.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
事實上是OK的好像並沒有這麼難那反而大家不好記你要我記說哪一天故宮是全面免費我們還記不得那像德國他是在有一個星期天每月第一個星期天全面免費比起來我覺得故宮可以考量一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14674.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14675.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
中文字幕提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14700.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14724.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
這個我也常常想要提的英國事實上是全面免費只要是國家的出錢的他只有長社展長社展全面免費只有特展才需要付費那我們可以想想博物館的成本當中跟收入當中那這個門票到底佔的比重是多少那如何在一個博物館可以運作的情況下讓更多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14726.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14753.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
能夠一而再的再三的進去學習了解我們的國寶我想這個是我希望故宮可以做到的那我今天提的就先從一個我覺得可以跟我們剛講的奧賽博物館羅浮宮看齊的我們是不是先針對經濟弱勢族群提出門票的優惠政策好不好那是不是你們可以去做一個評估然後給我們一個報告呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14754.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14779.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
跟委員簡單報告就是因為故宮有規會法的關係規會法的關係我剛講連那個65歲的老人我們希望說他假日來都免費基本上來講財政部都不同意所以我們只能用專案的方式只能用專案的方式然後就是說透過另外的基金所以您說是財政部不允許你這麼做嗎對因為我們門票收入要繳庫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14780.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14787.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
門票收入佔你們的總收入的百分之多少?佔你們的總營運成本百分之多少?應該是說你們的總成本裡面門票收入佔的成本是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14797.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14815.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
總成本?總成本倒沒有算因為故宮的總成本沒有辦法算因為如果算年度預算的話故宮總成本不能算嗎?年度預算可以算但是總成本不能算因為總成本的話如果把文入都算成總成本年度的成本年度的預算可以算年度預算你們現在收入在你們的年度預算裡面百分之多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14822.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14824.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我的印象過去的話大概占到八成啊,現在的話是占三成。 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14846.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14861.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
請你算一下這概念我經營一個故宮可是因為門票使用率沒有到這麼高那跟據說為什麼大英博物館這麼做為什麼德國的博物館這麼做那為什麼別人針對中低收入這麼做一定有他的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14862.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14885.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
報告委員 報告委員我是主席是主任我姓林我們113年度其實我們因為有一個新故宮計畫的整括件所以每一年度有關支出的部分是都不一定的那在113的部分我們是稅出是26億那扣掉新故宮計畫變13億 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14887.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14889.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
十三億的話那我們去年的門票收入多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14901.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14902.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
二十六億來講的話那其實比較起來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14919.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14919.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
十三億是包括新故宮工建計劃不是經常性的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14937.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14938.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
財政部規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14956.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14971.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
好 謝謝謝謝范雲委員 院長請回接下來我們請陳冠廷委員陳冠廷陳冠廷委員不在我們請邱志偉委員邱志偉邱志偉委員不在我們請林楚英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14972.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14974.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
林柱英委員蘇清泉委員徐欣穎委員鄭振潔委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14992.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15016.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
請蔡毅與委員不在我們今天登記質詢均已發言完畢另外有林楚瑩委員陳冠廷委員提出書面質詢關於今天的會議作如下決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢及相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15017.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15029.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
關於委員對於要求提供相關資料及未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位 |