| IVOD_ID |
158845 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158845 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-2-15,36-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-13T11:45:25+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-13T12:00:28+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/293c543958a38e47ae16575bda5c4a0329f121d6a4fe60dd20fa0258716fbc77280ecaa5b1202abe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃建賓 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:45:25 - 12:00:28 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、繼續審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。二、繼續審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。三、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「地方制度法第八十三條之三條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「地方制度法第五十二條及第六十一條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法第五十六條條文修正草案」案。七、審查委員李坤城等20人擬具「地方制度法第七十八條條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員李彥秀等16人擬具「地方制度法第五十五條及第五十六條條文修正草案」案。九、審查委員高金素梅等18人擬具「地方制度法第八十三條之三條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員魯明哲等16人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「地方制度法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「地方制度法部分條文修正草案」案。） |
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好 謝謝主席 姐姐們請部長委員好部長早安 部長剛才講那個非常對我覺得其實未來其實不管是第四法修訂之後其實還要考慮到就是包括各縣市的職等要打開的問題讓公務人員有更多發展的空間那這個當然是之後我們再討論的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.798 |
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那我想在針對今天第四法相關議題討論之前我本席有些問題想要跟部長就教那部長本席看到我們內政部在1月10號宣布春節期間發給全國村里長1.5個月的事務補助費要讓全國的村里長跟軍公教人員在1月17日同時可以同步領到這個年終獎金那近日會撥款給各縣市政府請問現在目前的進度是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.719 |
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我已經發文給縣市政府已經發文過去了發文過去了但是因為它是大筆的一個撥款必須通報國庫署所以目前已經在通報國庫署當中所以1月17日進行一定 大家都唸得對原則上希望在1月15撥到縣市然後1月17可以到達鄉鎮好 謝謝是市長喔是市長嗎對市長 因為市長有回覆喔 市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.46 |
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111.531 |
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不然本市完全支持增加全國村里長的事務補助費因為傳立場應該都是站在旁邊的第一層不然是入坪燈亮、水溝通或者是村裡的大大小小的事實每天在一堆事情民眾第一時間都找傳立場我想這個部分我們一定要來給我們的村長更多的支持跟鼓勵不過很遺憾這件美事 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
113.012 |
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125.43 |
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卻造成 卻讓變成許多民進黨人士拿來做政治鬥爭的工具我想在我們立法院的總預算還沒有復回之前民進黨許多的這個民進黨代表不斷的造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
127.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
143.34 |
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總醫生如果沒有通過 你們這裡的傳統地方都站不住這個國保國衛的事務補助費其實這個本事都有聽到 連我回到選區都有聽到這樣的聲音這樣非常遺憾喔 因為這樣的假消息我從來沒有看到內政部跳出來澄清或反駁這樣不實的謠言 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
144.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
169.342 |
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不過我跟委員再補充一下好嗎我們在那個上個禮拜的時候有跟三個黨團的總召還有我們召委都有跟他提到說我們必須要把這個大額一共有5.9億的這個公務預算雖然是法定支付看能不能在就是所謂春節前10日發那因為他們幾位總召都說可以包括召委都同意我們才把這個公文發出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
176.169 |
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所以事實上我們是徵得立法院的同意然後內政委員會很多委員都同意的狀況才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
178.82 |
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196.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
但當時民間這樣在傳出來的時候甚至有民意代表在議會也講的時候並沒有看到內政部來澄清啊我沒有在議會答詢啊我是說地方啦地方 你要告訴我所以我要告訴你不一定知道你現在要告訴我不一定知道說這個傳聞不一定知道嗎這件事情是大家三個都共同想要來推動的我想我記得那天也是在民內政審嘛十幾個小時啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
當天過的時候大家都很開心因為我們可以幫基層的這些村長爭取福利我覺得這是好事情因為像我說的 保定我只是要分享這件事給保定知道說這件事讓我們大家覺得說我們是在做第二個事情有什麼用這個東西來做醫生有過沒過的理由所以我們還是婦委了嘛對不對部長所以部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
250.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
如果你有當過地方的副首長你應該很清楚知道這個總預算裡面這個法律義務支出就是不管對於社會保險補助也好教育補助金額也好地方補助也好這個都是屬於法律義務支出建屋是絕對可以提前來動之的如果有所謂說拿不到的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
271.731 |
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我想是依法啦但是黃偉永跟您講一下就是說因為他這個所謂的地方的這個補助費是113年6月19日修正公佈那但是他是第一次修正公佈所以事實上在釋法當中會有灰色地帶然後我們在內政委員會審的時候我們的那個電視的監測系統也都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.556 |
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所以指導的一定會指導 像委員一定非常清楚這個話其實在我們家也都可以做到的 就是說地方在說這些話的時候我們也希望雷正博要出來澄清說因為要讓我們的村民長安心啦 人家也期待很久這件事情對全國的村民長都是很大的鼓舞啦對 這種東西本來就不會拿不到嘛因為發生這種事情在流竄其實是對村民長造成恐慌啦好 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.486 |
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不然我為什麼會這樣說就是我也被媒體問就是說你們為什麼要一邊擋預算一邊又說爭取其實我覺得這兩件事情是不能很危難但我想或許政黨裡面它有一些攻防的手段跟方式但是內政部正在內政部的角色應該要來說明不然好我們這個問題就到這邊我也想說我們不要再爭論下去了那接下來本席要再反映另外一件事就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
327.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
328.629 |
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保證這是真的要跟我們的傳譯中來跟保證來 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
333.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
354.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們裡面有一個叫九任獎金就是年滿六屆滿六十五歲的村長他就可以領到一筆叫做九任慰勞金現在很多年輕人他很年輕就現在很多村長很年輕就開始從事服務的工作他可能沒六個月還沒六十五歲但是因為這樣沒辦法領到這條錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
371.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我想這個失去了九任慰勞金原本的美意我們的重點是九任嘛不是他年紀多少吧那不知道我們目前我們國內啊 保證我們國內還沒六十歲的傳統你覺得比得多嗎 保證還是市長回答 市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
379.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
384.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
未滿60歲的我現在的受益 沒關係 我現在的受益4.3%啦 獎金一半啦 將近一半喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
394.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
410.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我也相信現在越來越多年輕人越會投入公眾事務所以未滿65歲的青莊社帶的影響非常非常的多所以會後也請部裡面這邊來做調查這樣的比例有多少我們是不是能夠來研議來修這個門檻因為畢竟你要做六任並不容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
411.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
414.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們現在手頭上的資料就是滿65歲的有六成 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
436.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
458.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
六成所以有四成是阿伯六成但是我的意思是說我們當時在考慮的時候也有考慮到說要任職要滿六屆然後年滿65歲我們仍然是以這個為目標現在的規劃的方向我們在會後會提供給黃委員參考這個請布委員來演繹因為年輕人願意投入公共事務但是要年滿六屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
459.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
478.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
65歲,但是他65歲為主嘛,不是以65歲嘛他可以繼續做啊,因為現在立定有的也差不多我們主要是要鼓勵年輕人,你如果投入公共事務,你就要做到65歲,這也是要鼓勵啦鼓勵年輕人,因為不中金啦,因為不簡單我相信這不是第一次說這件事情我們來提他的分析啦,然後提供給委員參考好不好我們來提分析報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
489.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
516.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好那最後我講關於今天第四法的問題我想不管是執政黨或是在野黨都有委員提出這個修法的版本那關鍵的重點就是希望地方政府的組織還有人士能更有彈性那增加地方的這個自治的能量像本席所在的台東縣其實面臨的也是一樣問題但是我們更大的問題就是我們要怎麼留住基層的公務人員博定我是怎麼說這讓你聽博定 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
517.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
539.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
年改之後,其實越來越多年輕人不太願意從事公職的工作,包括你越來越低我們花東地區的公務機構,不管是公務單位或是學校單位,其實它承受更大的工作壓力在我們資源匱乏,而且在台東交通作戶方面的情況之下,偏鄉公務人員跟教職人員的工作負擔是日益沉重 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
540.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
558.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
而且最容易是造成人員的流動率越來越高行政效益跟學生塑膠品質都一定會受到影響那我為什麼會說這樣子部長我們工人業有很多的佳績像東部就一個叫做東台佳績部長 市長你知道現在東台佳績一個月多少錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
565.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
584.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
630元一個月630元連台北到台東的火車票都買不起一公元六百三十塊大家報告這個不是現在本是在最早到工部門擔任約聘僱人員的時候那個時候就是630經過了二三十年他還是630塊他沒有隨著物價波動調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
587.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
606.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那像這樣的情況之下,很容易發生一個就是,我報考上,不管是高補考或是地方特考的,他只要擔滿,像高補考,擔滿三年之後,他就可以,沒有榜樣他就可以離開,地特是六年嘛,會發生什麼情況?特別是偏鄉,本市占擔任過偏鄉的鄉長,我們六年以後,這個公務人員就開始掉薪, |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
610.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
627.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為你沒有願意讓他留下來嘛那會在人偏鄉還有離島地區會產生什麼情況我們不能公務人員的基礎訓練中心新兵訓練所啦新兵訓練所多六年 三年 多成熟 能夠開始服務的訓練他都要照顧所以我們是不是要研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
629.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
656.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在這個部分我們是不是在討論說未來要怎麼樣提升基層工人特別是花東跟偏遠地區、離島地區工人員的這些福利讓他們願意留下來而不會造成人員的移動因為這一些基層的工人員還有教師員他都是代表我們政府要推動政令我們的政策的第一線人員我們希望他能夠更穩定那這部分我也希望請部長我們是不是有機會來做這樣的演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
660.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
688.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那個黃委員您剛講的630元這個部分這是人事行政總署的規定那您有提到說基層公務員有這樣子的一個這個不公平因為二三十年都沒改變的話我們又會反應過去那您剛所提到的部分就是讓偏鄉地區的縣政府縣市政府的公務員可以留下來不是只有家籍的問題就是我剛剛所提到的在都會地區你要找公務人員真的比較快 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
689.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
716.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好生活然後加幾多所以部長越上下就越不行那所以我們地方自助法在修正的過程當中如果你沒有很好的配套措施你只會鼓勵偏鄉的縣市公務人員往那個越為都會去的地方移動包括我一開始提到未來我們的指點事項在打開的部分後來升遷的部分它的實際上的就是我們的那因為指點打開不是只有內政部的權財會有那個當然部長部長你說內政部的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
719.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
743.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
大家長應該來幫忙對 所以我非常了解就好像我跟黃委員提過我們在台東這邊如果有警察在執勤的時候應該符合勞基法那我是不是用這個替代役的方式來幫忙你補充其實我們現在在規劃不是只有台東所以包括像離島也是一樣我說不是只有台東那我們已經在規劃當中但是必須要有一段時間的訓練你不能七公八公就夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
766.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以縣市 縣市尤其是偏鄉的縣市公務人員第一個 直等或是加擠或是其他的這個升遷管道如果都被擋住變成他的天花板只有九直等十直等或者是一下子要跳到政務官政務官再跳回來其實在地方政府沒有那麼容易但是我們又知道你也在鄉鎮公所待過 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
767.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
780.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
如果是公務譬如說它是土木工程機械工程現在就已經很難找到公務員你又跟他講說你只能幹到副局長或者你只能幹到副處長我相信不要三年他就走掉了外面的要找外面的套路很方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
782.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
804.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以這個部分其實真的是必須要好好的跟地方縣市政府來談然後再來討論到有關財政收支劃分跟公共債務跟舉債的問題這樣子搭配下來對地方縣市尤其是離島鄉鎮的部分呢跟在這個都會地區裡面的公務人員不對等的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
805.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
820.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以我們才提到我們是比較保守的只能寫說要把差異的規範要分析出來我們才能夠做改進那這個改進呢沒有藍綠之別所以很多委員會想說我所謂的因人設施才不是這樣子所以部長也是同意這件事情未來我們來做這個努力嘛好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
829.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
847.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
要有配套措施,但是不可能只有放在地方制度法,我剛剛有講過,人有人,錢有錢。一波一波來啦,這真的,不過,這裡補充妳的角度,妳要看這平行的溝通保全一部這,六八三十個在座各位公民,妳們一國六八三十個,可以做社會,妳們跟我說,妳們如果住在台北,妳們買火車票還要貼八個口在裡面,對嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
852.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
866.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
一個月加息630元630元能夠你怎麼鼓勵他留在偏鄉我們最希望是人才能夠流動我們可以馬上來協調但是我剛剛所說的值等啦人數啦財政啦真的沒有辦法馬上協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
867.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
887.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以部長這個都是一步一步來我們一個一個來解決能解決我們先解決我想這個也是對工人員的一個肯定因為畢竟到偏鄉真的不容易我們要想辦法讓他們留住那能夠留住其實對地方人才能夠穩定的話對地方發展能夠均衡而不會讓人城鄉越來越差距越來越大所以也謝謝部長跟市長今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
889.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
901.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們達到某些程度上的共識我們一起努力讓這個國家的公務人員能夠獲得更好的福利然後讓他們有更穩定的發展那也謝謝部長跟市長 以上謝謝主席 謝謝謝謝委員 |