| IVOD_ID |
158829 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158829 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
28 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-13T10:28:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-13T10:43:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:06 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/293c543958a38e47ee87b0765e8b1b7fb1c135165b29e3b3f85eb60e410638a8e588b5cd50b116635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:28:59 - 10:43:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部率所屬相關單位列席就「號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為妨害司法公正罪之現行犯？」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、併案審查
（一）行政院函請審議「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員吳沛憶等23人擬具「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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8.609 |
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我們麻煩部長還有廳長請鄭部長哪一位廳長李廳長還有高廳長兩位高廳長請行政廳廳長跟高廳長各位早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
32.545 |
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好 那我想說今天的這個題目呢我剛剛在程序發言的時候 我已經覺得已經說過這個東西是有一點問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
33.953 |
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55.318 |
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那我想說妨害司法公正罪這個目前還是在立法院因為我們才剛送出委員會不久所以我們今天來談論這個妨害司法公正罪跟現行犯這東西其實有一點牛頭不對馬嘴所以我才會一直說我覺得這個有一點過於法盲的認定因為這個東西到底跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
56.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
82.835 |
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跟這個什麼號召民眾上街呢是否發起的人是認為要對個案進行施壓有操作個案跟壓迫個案其實我們有概念都知道一個國家你要干涉司法通常都是執政黨啦那一個說在野黨可以干涉司法我覺得這個這其實就只是一個政治的嘴砲政治的口水而已其實沒有什麼意義來我來請教一下 |
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85.108 |
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99.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我先請教一下兩位先請教那個廳長好了那個行政廳廳長我想請問一下還有那個行政廳的高廳長我想請問一下445跟718有談論到人民集會結社的自由我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
到底這個4.45跟7.8你們可以簡單解釋一下到底人民有什麼集會結社的自由啊你可以簡單解釋一下嗎在憲法第14條有人民有集會結社的自由那4.45它就是針對集會遊行法相關的一些規定做的一些核限解釋跟核限解釋或是違反相關的規定的那個違憲的一些說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
130.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
152.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那針對說集會的目的的部分我們現在有修正在集會遊行法第四條你不可以主張共產主義跟分裂國土之類的這是部分他有做這相關的產式包括要給予人與集會遊行民眾的適當的場所跟保障這個是在當事事務的比較的主要的一個意思以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
178.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好 所以顯然齁 您剛剛講得很清楚嘛憲法14條集會結社的自由還有憲法11條言論自由其實人民的這些權利都是憲法給予的嘛我想說這個沒有問題對不對好 那今天呢我比較訝異的就是說竟然會有我們立法院的召委去召開這個好像對於我們這個集會結社對這個言論自由是有意見的那我常覺得啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
198.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
民進黨認為中華民國憲法是災難但是最近又拼命的利用釋憲想辦法來維持他的政權一方面覺得他是垃圾是災難一方面又只靠著他當作是一個救命鎖然後來希望能夠維護他的政權然後一方面說自己尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
民主 但另外一方面又發文挺戒嚴其實這個政黨 我覺得不僅雙標 而且都精神錯亂好 我跟各位說禮拜六我也有去現場所以說剛剛我想講說現行犯逮捕那如果這真的能逮捕 那我也是其中一個啦我在這邊先跟各位報告一下其實啊 我想說在座的宗家兵召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
223.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
238.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
在1990年3月20號野百合學運你們都是在上面的我是在下面挺你們的所以我跟你們曾經一起奮戰過這時候我是個高中生左邊那個小胖子就是我那個就是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你們可以回去看一下當年你們的照片 現場就是這樣我當年是一個高中生來挺你們 挺野百合學運因為我認為這個國家要走向民主這國家我們要廢除萬年國代 我們要求召開國師會議這就是我們當年的訴求啊現場有多少人像鄭文聖 黃偉哲 林佳龍 鄭麗君 陳其邁翁章良 鍾昭偉 范雲 陳啟玉 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
267.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
295.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
劉建興 羅文嘉 全部都是你們在上面 是我們追我們都在那邊追 追 怎麼講 要怎麼講我們擁護你們 我們認同你們所以我們曾經打過一場美好的仗但是到今天我真的很多事情我沒有辦法認同就我禮拜六的時候我在那邊講35年前我站在自由廣場前面 在中正紀念堂前面我當時在抗議當時的政府35年後我到這裡是抗議現在的政府所以到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們國家 我們的政府 我們的司法為什麼一直這樣讓我們失望那其實我們到現場抗議的很簡單就是我覺得這段時間的 憲判八 憲判九讓我重新對大法官 我真的覺得大法官什麼時候變成是一個執政者護航的就是為了幫他護航 當他的門神然後我們再回過頭來看今天我們立法院裡面的召委利用排案權 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
來要把這些集會結社的人民羅織入罪然後號召說這個到場的這些是違反妨礙司法公正罪的現行犯那我想請問一下這個是你們這些人當年追求的言論自由追求的民主國家嗎35年後過去了我還堅守我當年的想法但各位都變了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
351.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以我為什麼禮拜六我要去現場我不是挺個案我是在那邊對於我們司法為什麼走到今天而難過為什麼一個起訴書可以跟我認為的起訴書完全不一樣的格式 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
365.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
385.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
明明刑事訴訟法有說 起訴書的內容是什麼?起訴書可以加入一大堆跟本案構成要求無關的東西嗎?我是在抗議這個當檢察官配合民嘴 配合一些政客把一些根本不該放入起訴書的東西放在那裡供這些民嘴來消遣 被告這就不對了 這跟個案一點關係都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
386.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
396.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
而且這是我們檢察官不應該的地方請問部長什麼時候您當年的起訴書會灌入這個人私生活或其他跟本案無關的事實在裡面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
400.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
402.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我想說起訴書是公開大家都有眼睛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
441.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們起訴書有一個欄位是犯罪事實嘛有一個欄位是那個涉犯法條嘛那你涉犯法條跟犯罪事實有沒有都都是同樣的東西一看就知道了嘛既然你不認為是涉犯法條的話那樣的事實就不應該出現在事實欄裡面犯罪事實欄裡面我想我在講一個是最簡單的法律ABC全國的法官、講官都聽得懂那既然 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
443.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
469.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
台北地檢的大黑金專組這些檢察官聽不懂看不懂忘了就算了我懶得跟他們多說但我還是覺得司法一定要公正司法一定要獨立超然你不能玩這一套好然後我再跟各位報告啦我們這次妨害司法公正罪我們所羅列的部分以及法務部的草案裡面所羅列的部分跟這次集會也完全沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
471.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
494.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
如果有興趣 部長你也可以回去看一下你們的草案是什麼所以啊 把所謂的法治法公正罪現行犯跟這次的集會放在一起我個人是完全不認同啦那一直以來啦 我覺得我看到的就是喔不管我排偵查不公開的專報 或者是考察都會被民進黨說 我們在野黨在干涉司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
495.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
514.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
說真的我覺得很荒謬啦 大家都是這個體系出來的 什麼樣的人有辦法干涉司法一清二楚然後在那邊說在野黨來干涉司法 干涉個案 我覺得我都當作是個政治語言啦 我也不是很想去理這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
518.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我還想啦 就是各位都是專業的司法官我們當年啦 我們進入這個體系的時候我們都一直希望維護司法的獨立維護司法不受干涉但是喔 不要這麼多年過去了自己變成是干涉的那個人另外喔 我再跟你們講啦如果你們真的說什麼叫干涉司法我會給你們報告一下最簡單的嘛 陳水扁陳水扁案的那時候黃絲旦那個是不是干涉個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
545.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
573.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
賴清德那時候說要幫無乃人他用政治生命來替無乃人背書這個才叫干涉個案陳時夢說要辦那些辦律的法官這個才叫干涉個案那如果這些只要談論到這個個案就叫做干涉個案的話那有一些案子社會發生一些殺警案什麼的人民跳出來說殺警案要重判這叫不叫干涉個案你說這個人不應該被處理不應該被 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
575.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不應該被追訴叫做干涉個案叫他應該被追訴那也叫干涉個案啊那如果照這樣講全台灣人都在干涉個案啊洪仲秋案上街那麼多人那個是不是干涉個案所以啊我真的覺得啊荒謬 政治人物荒謬至極啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
591.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
610.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是喔 騙了一個排案的時間啦因為我以為排是排稅審法結果不是排稅審法然後排了一個這個莫名其妙的東西那我剛有 也有提到我剛在程序發言的時候有提到黃士傑次長在 還有審發會委員 之前在 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
611.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
635.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們立法院所召開的行政院運用國家資源製作文宣攻擊災害黨嚴重違反行政總理的這個專題報告的時候當時兩位都有發言說立法院的委員會不應該去做這種的專題報告不應該還沒有論斷的一件事情就直接說這東西有問題這東西是違法的所以我在這邊跟各位報告一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
636.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
648.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
既然以前的委員都曾經批評過 這樣是不對的那其實我們的委員會 本委員會實在不應該去做一個這麼不中立的一個議程在這邊更何況本來我們同意交換的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
650.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
679.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
說法是說要換稅審法這跟人民有關的法條那今天換了一個我個人認為是侵害人民憲法上面的權利的這是完全不應該不管是集會結社的自由權或者是言論自由權我覺得這個都不應該被侵害雖然我知道民進黨認為憲法是災難但是既然我們憲法還存在了一天我們就有遵守憲法以及遵守法律的義務這不能我們不能說民意代表啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
680.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
686.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
自己跳出來啦去損害人民的集會權利這個是不對的也不能叫人民閉嘴 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
690.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
711.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
最後我想說這段時間我跟因為今天在場都是司法人員我想說這段時間發生了很多事情包括就是說我想請法務部或司法院要注意一件事情因為我們在倫理守則裡面到底什麼事能做什麼事不能做過於空泛你這一次檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
712.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
740.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
跟那個無乃人吃飯這件事情來說好了無乃人不是通緝犯無乃人不是犯罪的集團的分子無乃人也不是現任的政治人物那檢察官跟他吃飯的問題在哪裡他如何違反倫理守則這個你要一個明確的規範嘛我今天這個不是在罵誰我只是說我希望法務部一個明確的規範否則像以前最早的時候法務部曾經說不可以隨便跟律師吃飯 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
741.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
763.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那我就說 那我爸爸是律師 我跟他吃飯有沒有關係或是有人的太太是律師 那跟他吃飯有沒有關係那法務部這部分是不是要定清楚那有一些人在場 我們要趕快 司法官要趕快退要離開 要離席 那這個的規範是什麼你不能一個空泛的東西丟在那裡 叫法官 檢察官遵守法官 檢察官不知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
764.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
793.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我就像我剛剛講的無乃人 德高望重那我跟他吃飯有什麼問題他也不是任何一個政治人物了啊所以我還是這樣講啦 很多時候那個不叫殺之謂之虐所以你應該要把一些東西把它羅列清楚你才能夠讓檢察官能夠好好的去遵守那這幾位檢察官在現場的因為我不知道最後你們調查結果會不會去處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
794.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
816.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
但是我要替他們講一句話就是我根本無從研判我跟這個人進到我的這個參會裡面我可不可以跟他吃飯我搞不清楚那如果這樣是不是只要法官檢察官同事以外的或是我跟家人以外的人全部都不能跟他一起吃飯那你要講好啊你講好之後你再來去處罰他們我沒有意見否則這幾位 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
819.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
843.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
檢察官到場的我跟他們也都不熟但是我覺得我還是要替他們講一句話就是我不認為這是基層檢察官的錯我認為這是法務部跟司法院的錯因為你們沒有明定清楚該怎麼做可以跟什麼人吃飯不可以跟什麼人吃飯你沒有羅列清楚的時候請你們自己注意這東西你不要又要棄居保帥來找幾個人來砍就對了好 謝謝吳叉緯 謝謝部長那麼在這裡因為剛剛 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2025-01-13T10:29:01.044000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2025-01-13T10:29:02.065000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
好，麻煩請部長、刑事廳廳長及高廳長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2025-01-13T10:29:02.065000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2025-01-13T10:29:07.309000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
有請鄭部長、兩位廳長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2025-01-13T10:29:07.309000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2025-01-13T10:29:07.589000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
各位早安。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2025-01-13T10:29:25.974000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2025-01-13T10:30:21.054000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
對於今天的這個題目，我剛剛在程序發言的時候已經說過這個東西是有一點問題啦，我想妨害司法公正罪目前還在立法院，因為我們才剛送出委員會不久，所以我們今天來談論妨害司法公正罪跟現行犯，這個東西其實有一點牛頭不對馬嘴，所以我才會一直說我覺得這個有一點過於法盲的認定啦，尤其這個東西到底跟什麼號召民眾上街是否發起人認為要對個案進行施壓、有操作個案跟壓迫個案，其實我們有概念的人都知道，在一個國家，要干涉司法通常都是執政黨啦，說在野黨可以干涉司法，我覺得這個其實就只是一個政治的嘴炮、政治的口水而已，其實沒有什麼意義。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2025-01-13T10:30:24.108000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2025-01-13T10:30:51.234000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
我先請教一下刑事廳李廳長跟行政廳高廳長，釋字第445號跟釋字第718號有談論到人民集會結社的自由，針對釋字第445號跟釋字第718號，你們可以簡單解釋一下到底人民有什麼集會結社的自由嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.688 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2025-01-13T10:30:52.215000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2025-01-13T10:30:54.017000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
可以簡單解釋一下嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
李廳長釱任 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2025-01-13T10:30:54.637000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2025-01-13T10:31:31.604000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
憲法第十四條規定人民有集會及結社之自由，釋字第445號就是針對集會遊行法相關的一些規定所做的合憲解釋及違反相關規定的違憲說明，針對集會目的的部分，我們現在有修正集會遊行法第四條，集會遊行不得主張共產主義或分裂國土之類的，在這個部分是有做相關的闡釋，包括要給予集會遊行民眾一個適當場所跟保障，這個是釋字第445號比較主要的意旨。以上。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.788 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2025-01-13T10:31:31.964000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2025-01-13T10:31:46.375000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
好，所以顯然您剛剛講的很清楚嘛，憲法第十四條規定集會結社的自由，憲法第十一條規定言論自由，其實人民的這些權利都是憲法給予的嘛，我想這個沒有問題，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.841 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2025-01-13T10:31:46.855000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2025-01-13T10:31:56.042000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
今天我比較訝異的就是說，竟然會有我們立法院的召委去召開這個會，好像對我們這個集會結社、對言論自由是有意見的。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.98 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2025-01-13T10:31:56.783000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2025-01-13T10:32:25.853000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
我常覺得啦，民進黨認為中華民國憲法是災難，但是最近又拚命的利用釋憲想辦法來維持它的政權，一方面覺得它是垃圾、是災難，一方面又只靠著它當作是一個救命索，然後希望能夠以此來維護它的政權；一方面說自己尊重民主，但另外一方面又發文挺戒嚴，其實這個政黨我覺得不僅雙標，而且精神錯亂！ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.928 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2025-01-13T10:32:27.735000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2025-01-13T10:32:37.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
我跟各位說，禮拜六我有去現場，所以剛剛羅智強講說現行犯逮捕，如果這個真的能逮捕，那我也是其中一個啦，我在這邊先跟各位報告一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.93 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2025-01-13T10:32:39.007000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2025-01-13T10:33:01.864000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
我想在座的鍾佳濱召委，1990年3月20號的野百合學運，你們都是在上面的，我是在下面挺你們的，所以我跟你們曾經一起奮戰過，那時候我是個高中生，左邊那個小胖子就是我，那個就是我，你們可以回去看一下當年你們的照片，現場就是這樣。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2025-01-13T10:33:01.864000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2025-01-13T10:33:15.014000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
我當年是一個高中生來挺你們、挺野百合學運，因為我認為這個國家要走向民主，這個國家要廢除萬年國代，我們要求召開國是會議，這就是我們當年的訴求啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.969 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2025-01-13T10:33:17.035000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2025-01-13T10:33:34.462000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
現場有多少人，像鄭文燦、黃偉哲、林佳龍、鄭麗君、陳其邁、翁章梁、鍾召委、范雲、陳啟昱、劉建忻、羅文嘉，全部都是你們在上面，我們都在那邊追……要怎麼講？ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.898 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2025-01-13T10:33:34.462000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2025-01-13T10:33:41.786000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
我們擁護你們、我們認同你們，所以我們曾經打過一場美好的仗，但是到今天我真的很多事情沒有辦法認同。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2025-01-13T10:33:42.367000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2025-01-13T10:33:59.283000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
像我禮拜六的時候在那邊所講的，35年前我站在自由廣場前面、在中正紀念堂前面抗議當時的政府，35年後我到這裡是抗議現在的政府，所以到底我們的國家、我們的政府、我們的司法為什麼一直這樣的讓我們失望？ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.942 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2025-01-13T10:34:00.464000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2025-01-13T10:34:16.238000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
其實我們到現場抗議的原因很簡單，就是這段時間的憲判字第8號、憲判字第9號讓我重新對於大法官……我真的覺得大法官什麼時候變成了替執政者護航的門神？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.831 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2025-01-13T10:34:17.519000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2025-01-13T10:34:43.355000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
我們再回過頭來看，今天我們立法院裡面的召委利用排案權要把這些集會結社的人民羅織入罪，說號召到場的這些人是妨害司法公正罪的現行犯，我想請問一下，這是你們這些人當年追求的言論自由、追求的民主國家嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.967 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2025-01-13T10:34:43.355000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2025-01-13T10:34:47.078000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
35年過去了，我還堅守我當年的想法，但各位都變了！ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2025-01-13T10:34:47.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2025-01-13T10:34:52.745000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
所以為什麼禮拜六我要去現場？ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2025-01-13T10:34:52.745000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2025-01-13T10:35:03.079000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
我不是挺個案，我是在那邊對於我們的司法為什麼走到今天這樣而難過，為什麼一個起訴書可以跟我認為的起訴書完全不一樣的格式？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2025-01-13T10:35:04.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2025-01-13T10:35:11.989000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
明明刑事訴訟法有規定起訴書的內容是什麼，起訴書可以加入一大堆跟本案構成要件無關的東西嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2025-01-13T10:35:11.989000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2025-01-13T10:35:13.911000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
我是在抗議這個！ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2025-01-13T10:35:13.911000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2025-01-13T10:35:27.499000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
當檢察官配合名嘴、配合一些政客，把一些根本不該放入起訴書的東西放在那裡供這些名嘴來消遣被告，這就不對了，這跟個案一點關係都沒有，而且這是我們檢察官不應該的地方。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.973 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2025-01-13T10:35:28.420000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2025-01-13T10:35:35.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
請問部長，您當年的起訴書會灌入這個人的私生活或其他跟本案無關的事實在裡面嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.972 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2025-01-13T10:35:35.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2025-01-13T10:35:36.920333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
有關這部分，因為起訴書有沒有灌入無關的事實，要看檢察官認為這個有沒有關聯性，如果有關聯性的話，我想這部分寫入是一個合宜的…… |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2025-01-13T10:35:36.920333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2025-01-13T10:35:38.395667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
好，沒關係，部長，你這有答跟沒有答一樣。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2025-01-13T10:35:38.395667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2025-01-13T10:35:39.871000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
好，沒關係啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2025-01-13T10:35:39.871000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2025-01-13T10:36:14.123000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
我想說起訴書是公開的，大家都有眼睛，我們起訴書有個欄位是犯罪事實，有個欄位是涉犯法條嘛，涉犯法條跟犯罪事實有沒有都是同樣的東西一看就知道了嘛，既然你不認為是涉犯法條的話，那樣的事實就不應該出現在犯罪事實欄裡面。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.99 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2025-01-13T10:36:14.243000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2025-01-13T10:36:34.168000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
我再講一個最簡單的法律ABC，全國的法官、檢察官都聽得懂，既然臺北地檢大黑金專組的這些檢察官聽不懂、看不懂、忘了，就算了，我懶得跟他們多說，但我還是覺得司法一定要公正，司法一定要獨立超然，你不能玩這一套。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.956 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2025-01-13T10:36:38.229000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2025-01-13T10:37:01.104000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
我再跟各位報告，我們這次妨害司法公正罪所羅列的部分以及法務部草案裡面所羅列的部分，跟這一次集會也完全沒有關係，如果有興趣，部長你也可以回去看一下你們的草案是什麼，所以把所謂妨害司法公正罪的現行犯跟這一次的集會放在一起，我個人是完全不認同啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2025-01-13T10:37:01.945000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2025-01-13T10:37:33.224000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
一直以來，我覺得我看到的就是，不管我排偵查不公開的專報或者是考察，都會被民進黨說我們在野黨在干涉司法，說真的，我覺得很荒謬，大家都是這個體系出來的，什麼樣的人有辦法干涉司法，一清二楚，然後在那邊說在野黨干涉司法、干涉個案，我都當作是政治語言，我也不是很想去理這些事情。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2025-01-13T10:37:38.868000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2025-01-13T10:37:52.113000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
各位都是專業的司法官，當年我們進入這個體系的時候，我們都一直希望維護司法的獨立，維護司法不受干涉，但是不要這麼多年過去了，自己卻變成是干涉的那個人。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.985 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2025-01-13T10:37:53.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2025-01-13T10:37:57.835000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
另外，我再跟你們講，如果你們真的要說什麼叫干涉司法，我跟你們報告一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2025-01-13T10:37:58.935000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2025-01-13T10:38:03.637000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
最簡單的嘛，陳水扁案那時候的黃絲帶是不是干涉個案？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2025-01-13T10:38:04.994000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2025-01-13T10:38:12.255000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
賴清德那時候說要幫吳乃仁，他用政治生命來替吳乃仁背書，這個才叫干涉個案！ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.879 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2025-01-13T10:38:13.615000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2025-01-13T10:38:16.716000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
陳師孟說要辦那些辦綠的法官，這個才叫干涉個案！ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2025-01-13T10:38:17.816000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2025-01-13T10:38:29.718000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
如果只要談論到這個個案就叫做干涉個案的話，那當社會發生一些殺警案或什麼重大案件的時候，人民跳出來說殺警案要重判，這個叫不叫干涉個案？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.855 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2025-01-13T10:38:30.658000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2025-01-13T10:38:39.003000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
你說這個人不應該被處理、不應該被追訴叫做干涉個案，那麼說他應該被追訴也叫干涉個案啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2025-01-13T10:38:39.703000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2025-01-13T10:38:42.005000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
如果照這樣講，全臺灣人都在干涉個案啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2025-01-13T10:38:42.846000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2025-01-13T10:38:46.108000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
洪仲丘案，上街那麼多人，那個是不是干涉個案？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2025-01-13T10:38:46.789000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2025-01-13T10:38:49.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
所以我真的覺得荒謬，政治人物荒謬至極啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2025-01-13T10:38:50.812000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2025-01-13T10:39:00.538000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
就是騙了一個排案的時間，因為我以為是排稅審法，結果不是排稅審法，然後排了這個莫名其妙的東西！ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2025-01-13T10:39:01.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2025-01-13T10:39:32.031000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
我剛剛在程序發言的時候也有提到，黃世杰次長還有沈發惠委員之前在我們立法院所召開「行政院運用國家資源製作文宣攻擊在野黨，嚴重違反行政中立」專題報告的時候，當時兩位都有發言表示立法院的委員會不應該做這種專題報告，不應該對於還沒有論斷的一件事情就直接說這個東西有問題、說這個東西是違法的。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.88 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2025-01-13T10:39:32.551000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2025-01-13T10:40:05.686000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
所以我在這邊跟各位報告一件事情，既然以前的委員都曾經批評過這樣是不對的，那麼本委員會實在不應該去排這麼不中立的一個議程；更何況本來我們同意交換的說法是要換稅審法，是跟人民有關的法條，結果今天換了一個我個人認為是侵害人民憲法上面權利的議程，這是完全不應該，不管是集會結社的自由權或者是言論自由權，我覺得這個都不應該被侵害。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.954 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2025-01-13T10:40:06.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2025-01-13T10:40:25.974000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
雖然我知道民進黨認為憲法是災難，但是既然我們的憲法還存在一天，我們就有遵守憲法以及遵守法律的義務，不能民意代表自己跳出來去損害人民的集會權利，這個是不對的，也不能叫人民閉嘴。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.988 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2025-01-13T10:40:25.974000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2025-01-13T10:40:29.297000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
謝謝吳召委。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2025-01-13T10:40:29.297000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:05.290000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
最後我想說的是，因為今天在場的都是司法人員，這段時間發生了很多事情，我想請法務部或司法院要注意一件事情，因為在我們的倫理守則裡面對於到底什麼事能做、什麼事不能做，規定過於空泛，以這一次檢察官跟吳乃仁吃飯的這件事情來說好了，吳乃仁不是通緝犯，吳乃仁不是犯罪集團分子，吳乃仁也不是現任的政治人物，那檢察官跟他吃飯的問題在哪裡？ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:05.290000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:08.732000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
他如何違反倫理守則？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:08.732000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:10.232000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
這個你要有明確的規範嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:10.532000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:23.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
我今天這個不是在罵誰，我只是說我希望法務部有個明確的規範，否則像以前最早的時候，法務部曾經說不可以隨便跟律師吃飯，我就說我爸爸是律師，我跟他吃飯有沒有關係？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.986 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:23.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:28.003000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
或是有人的太太是律師，他跟他太太吃飯有沒有關係？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.864 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:28.184000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:30.166000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
法務部對於這個部分是不是要訂清楚？ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:31.047000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:38.154000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
有一些人在場，司法官要趕快離開、離席，這部分的規範是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:38.154000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:42.858000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
你不能將一個空泛的東西丟在那裡，叫法官、檢察官遵守，法官、檢察官不知道啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.969 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:43.819000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:49.340000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
就像我剛剛講的，吳乃仁德高望重，我跟他吃飯有什麼問題？ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:49.340000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2025-01-13T10:41:51.941000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
他也不是任何一個政治人物了啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2025-01-13T10:41:52.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2025-01-13T10:42:07.504000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
所以我還是這樣講啦，很多時候「不教而殺謂之虐」，所以你應該要把一些東西羅列清楚，才能夠讓檢察官好好的去遵守。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2025-01-13T10:42:08.424000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2025-01-13T10:42:31.038000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
對於這幾位在現場的檢察官，因為我不知道最後你們的調查結果會不會去處罰，但是我要替他們講一句話，就是我根本無從研判某個人進到餐會裡面，我可不可以跟他吃飯，我搞不清楚，如果是這樣，是不是只要是法官、檢察官同事以外的或是家人以外的人，全部都不能跟他們一起吃飯？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.906 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2025-01-13T10:42:31.178000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:01.229000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
這個你要講好，講好之後再來處罰他們，我沒有意見，否則到場的這幾位檢察官，其實我跟他們也都不熟，但是我覺得我還是要替他們講一句話就是，我不認為這是基層檢察官的錯，我認為這是法務部跟司法院的錯，因為你們沒有明定清楚該怎麼做，可以跟什麼人吃飯、不可以跟什麼人吃飯，當你們沒有羅列清楚的時候，請你們自己注意這個東西，不要又要棄車保帥、找幾個人來砍就對了。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.93 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:01.449000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:01.830000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
好，謝謝吳召委，謝謝部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:02.330000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:03.758571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
好，謝謝各位。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:04.058571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:23.772857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
因為剛剛吳召委提到本席有參加90年3月20號的野百百，因為本席是在89年4月入伍到91年才退伍，所以野百合當時我不在現場，我是在裝甲旅待命，這一點跟吳召委說明一下。謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.058 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:24.072857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:30.930000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
因為這個是我們從新聞找到的，如果有錯誤的話，不好意思。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:31.230000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:36.372857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
我了解、我了解，所以特別跟你說明，不好意思。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:36.672857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:40.387143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
但是我很肯定當年的那個活動。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:40.687143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:48.972857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
謝謝，因為那一年野百合也沒有要求釋放誰，是要求廢除國民大會。謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:49.272857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:52.415714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
接下來請吳委員思瑤發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0 |