| IVOD_ID |
15874 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15874 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-02T08:31:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-02T12:09:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:38:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dde1784ed6585ee25e6c0396a52a6677963be8d109af184be4a3bc599907f341985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會、勞動部就「公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計7案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:16 - 12:09:59 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1728.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1736.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
現在開會出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1739.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1768.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議．事由．時間113年4月29日星期一上午9時1分至11時1分．地點本月紅樓201會議室．出席委員魯明哲等13人．列席委員謝龍介等15人．請教委員一人．列席官員交通部部長王國才等．主席李昭吉委員昆哲報告事項．宣讀上次會議一事錄．決定一事錄確定討論事項繼續審查道路交通管理處罰條例修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1768.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1794.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
決議一、本案審查完均內容如審查結果,拟據審查報告提報院會討論,院會討論前不需交由黨團協商,院會討論時有理交集委員坤哲補充說明。二、本日通過條文自相關法制用詞用語授權主席及議事人員調整。審查結果一、第六三條及第六三條之二軍造行政院提案通過。二、第七條之一修正通過,通過附帶決議兩項。散會宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1800.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1827.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
請問各位委員在上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處有沒有意見沒意見議事錄確定那現在介紹在場委員林國成委員林佩祥委員陳素月委員介紹列席官員公共工程委員會吳哲成主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1829.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1844.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
葉哲良副主委、羅天健主任秘書、企劃處徐肇熙處長、技術處曾鈞敏處長、工程管理處黃順昌處長、秘書處邵志祺處長以下簡略 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1856.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1883.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
本日邀請行政院公共工程委員會以及勞動部就公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情形進行專題報告．及審查113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計7案。現在先請吳主委報告有關專題及解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1887.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1893.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
公共工程委員會、採購申訴審議委員會、許敬禮專門委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1915.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1944.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
中央採購集合小組林耀新執行秘書工程技術鑑定委員會何玉欣執行秘書華貴瑞張明珠執行秘書資訊推動小組沈恒光執行秘書人事室 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1947.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1971.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
李主任、主計室孫慧主任、勞動部職業安全衛生署周子蓮署長、朱文榮署長以及行政院主計總署公務預算處李易柔專門委員﹖補充介紹﹖黃建豪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1975.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1979.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好 那我們現在請吳主委來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1990.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2018.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生感謝大會安排兵會今天列席貴委員會向主席及各位委員先進報告公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情形以及兵會113年度單位預算凍結案辦理的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2020.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2035.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有關公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情形方面．便會為確保公共工程職業安全除要求應遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2036.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2060.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
職案相關規定外．委員會亦要求各機關合理編列職案相關的費用．而運用相關的履歷資料．請各機關慎選廠商．並強化工地職案管理及分級加強查核各面向．引導各機關能夠貫徹執行．以減少災害的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2065.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2087.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們一方面要求各機關依據施工風險合理量化編列職安費用方面。機關要求規劃設計單位依照工程規模及特性,編制安全衛生圖書及規範,並納入交標文件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2089.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2106.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
同時也請機關應用職災資料作為選商的參考．並會修正公共工程施工廠商及人員履歷應用於政府採購參考手冊提供各機關在辦理採購評選的時候將投標廠商對於以往職安資料納入評選項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2116.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2140.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
則由的廠商來承攬工程．並與勞動部借接職業災害資料．與系統建置警示訊息．我們預定在113年來完成。另外在強化統合協調機制．及落實工地治安管理方面．我們強化工程團隊監督確認及統合協調機制． |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2146.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2172.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們強化各團隊成員之間必須相互勾結連結及監督確認機制並由工程主辦機關及專案管理廠商或監察單位負責統合協調各廠商必須落實執行各項安全的工作另外落實執行工地安全衛生管理方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2174.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2200.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
建造單位必須確實辦理職安檢驗停留點的確認以落實執行工地安全衛生管理另外加強查核職安潛在及高風險案件並與勞動部建立橫向溝通通報機制同時我們訂定防範施工中橋樑 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2203.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2228.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
翻錄措施要求施工單位預支樑上去之後馬上要加以固定那麼來確保安全的這個施工那麼釣索橋樑設計施工及維護這段也應該加以注意我們已經訂定相關的規定請各機關配合辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2229.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2246.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
重大職災案件不得參選金主獎。我們規定各廠商必須確保這個工地安全才能參加我們金主獎的這個獎勵同時我們持續辦理職安教育訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2247.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2271.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本會對出任公職人員、土木工程類科、實務訓練、每年均請勞動部具有實務經驗之講師講授職業安全相關法規矩災害案例等課題．提升相關從業人員對於工地職安管理的觀念．截至112年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2273.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2299.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
免費已辦理60場實務訓練共計3664人次參加執行結果方面經過努力的結果大家一起來把它防範我們在公共工程重大職災死亡人數已經有逐漸的下降趨勢但是我們還是以零職災為目標來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2301.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2318.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
另外職安缺失查核扣點數也有逐年下降的趨勢我們將持續的來改善第二個我們113年度單位預算凍結方面典會113年度單位預算凍結案總共有7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2327.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2345.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
都已經依照規定提交疏運報告給大院來審查。所列各項的凍結案件預算均為配合施設目標而有必要辦理的業務。我們栽數重點如下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2348.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2352.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
一、持續辦理採購聯緣訓練．充實採購專業知識．強化採購集合管考作業．追蹤為採用電子報價值機關．參訊推廣專班並持續宣導。第二、積極協助業者開拓國際市場。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2372.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2400.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
三、落實強化機關資料傳輸韌性提升資料傳輸安全四、持續追蹤管考工程流標情形協助機關解決流標問題提出因應對策五、建立公共工程生態檢核管理機制及強化措施六、從源頭管理防止閒置公共設施的產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2403.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2414.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
結餘良好之職業安全管理可減少工地的災害避免造成勞工個人家庭及社會之傷害．並會將協同各機關持續與勞動部共同合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2418.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2446.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
督導工程團隊確實執行各項職安工作並強化統合協調機制落實工地職安管理降低工地職業災害朝工地臨職災目標來努力以優質公共建設為民眾創造美好的生活另外秉會各項預算均需配合國家發展推動為業務實際需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2448.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2465.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
有關大院決議事項與主項檢討進行．懇請各位委員支持．並同意相關經會之動之．以立各項業務之推動．以上報告進行主席及各位委員．頂力支持協助並會議主教。謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2474.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2478.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
現在繼續請勞動部職業安全衛生署周署長報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2488.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2507.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
主席、各位委員、女士先生、早安。今天只能代表勞動部列席會員會感謝各位委員對於公共工程職業安全衛生的關心公共工程向來受到各界關注而且有引領民間工程增進營建品質及安全的角色為了降低公共工程職業災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2508.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2537.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這以上是本部的資深重點．以下就今天的議題進行重點報告．敬請各位委員不吝指教有關強化公共工程安全衛生的作為部分．勞動部除了要求各檢察機構加強公共工程的監督檢查之外．我們也建立跨機關的檢查平臺．積聚各部會合作．來引領公共工程降低職災的風險．有關相關的重點作為有什麼七項簡單跟各位委員報告第一項是我們加強公共工程的監督檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2538.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2551.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們有要求各狼狼獎的機構平時跟假日也要加強公共工程的凍害稽查之外也應該會同中央直轄市的工程主管機關實施聯合的查核重要工程對於違反 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2554.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2580.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
勞動檢查法及職業安全法規等等我們會研議停工及法案處分。那我們也建立了職場檢災跨機關的合作平臺本部有邀請到交通部、經濟部、內政部、國防部、教育部、財政部、農業部及工程會共同成立的職場檢災跨部會平臺定期召開會議研議各樣相關的重大的事故然後希望能夠精進事故安全的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2581.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2598.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那針對地方的部分地方公共工程我們也要求勞動假機構跟地方政府配合不定期召開檢災的檢討會議來促進地方工程的那個工程的那個施工團隊的那個安全衛生管理的機制同時我們也訂立一個加強公共工程職業安全衛生管理的做要點這個要點指導機關將 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2601.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2622.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
公共工程的設計、建造、施工等安全衛生注意事項能夠遵御翔素要求納入契約採購加上管理之外,我們也規定勞動檢查機構必須配合中央、直轄市來辦理聯合稽查。除此之外,我們也訂立了一個營造工程風險評估的技術指引,我們來協助工程設計者及施工者在 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2623.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2645.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
除了要落實政府採購法第4條第1項以及我們食安法第5條的規定在規劃設計階段就要做風險評估來消明最優先的風險除此之外我們也加強了重大工程的施工安全查核機制那本部有要求針對國家重大工程如果是屬於我們勞動檢查法規定的危機工作場所 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2645.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2664.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
必須在實施審查會議的時候,邀請工程職業機關及設計單位列席,來說明在工程規劃設計的時候已經消明了主要風險,那相關的剩餘風險如何傳遞給施工單位做進一步的掌控。如果審查通過的時候,才可以使勞工進一步作業。同時我們也建立了公共工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2665.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2680.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主管機關施工安全的選上機制,誠如工程會主委的說明,我們勞動部有監視相關資料,也跟工程會橫向聯繫,把相關的事業單位資料,還有優良的資料,也在我們網路上做進一步的公開。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2681.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2703.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
除此之外,我們勞動部也受到工程會的支持,我們有辦理一個公共工程金安獎,今年已經辦到第18屆,這個是本人每年辦的優良工程的金安獎選拔,我們要樹立公共工程的安全衛生的學習標竿典範,那這個獲獎單位的相關的做法,我們也在我們官網做揭露,讓各個工程能夠互相學習。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2704.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2724.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那針對公共工程部分由於這幾年來公共工程在各機關各主管機關的努力下推動減災策略已經略有有些成效我們104年的中央實災死亡49人到去年降到已經降到35%左右那我相信我們會繼續在努力那針對營造工程打擊的部分跟各位誠實報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2726.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2752.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
臺灣事實上在營造業部分,最弱職災相對是偏高的,比起其他國家我們將會降到7成,那我相信這部分是我們的弱點,所以我們勞動部今年也特別在對最弱的部分,我們訂立一個營造作業打擊年,我們希望今年的營造作業的最弱的災害能夠比去年至少降低30%,那這要透過各工程單位的互相配合跟支持。不管是公共工程、民間工程,我們都認為最弱案件要做很好的預防,我想也跟這個委員做報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2753.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2779.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
最後我想公共公安事故不僅會造成勞工的傷亡更是離家者家屬一輩子的傷痛那也會延待影響家庭的生計跟社會的一些負擔那我想有公共工程有時候也會造成公共安全的重大事故的發生所以勞動部會持續透過監督、檢查、輔導、宣導以及跟跨部會合作的方式來讓我們的公共工程的安全衛生能夠提升到最好的進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2780.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2806.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
以上報告,敬請各位委員指教,也祝主席、各位委員身體健康,萬事如意。謝謝。現在要進行詢討。先宣告以下事項。詢討時間出席委員6加1分鐘,列席委員4加1分鐘。委員發言登記於11點之前截止。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2807.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2824.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
各委員如有提案請於10點前提出以便議事人員會診暫定10點30分休息10分鐘中午原則上不休息現在請登記第1位委員林國成委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2836.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2839.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
兩位所長說實在的昨天是勞動節今天感謝召委關心勞工排了今天的一個專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2863.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2878.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
說實在勞工是被漠視的一群可是在這裡今天召委可以排這個基本上我們是感為敬佩但是我說實在的吳主委啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2880.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2895.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
在公共工程裡面你有幾個作為啊我是加以肯定的就是勞工啊有時候整個你主管全國不是只有公共工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2896.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2917.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
完全政府機關所屬的合約你就是主管機關但是這幾年有一個進步什麼進步呢公共工程委員會他去把合約的換本把薪資跟公安這個部分把它列進去這是對勞工的一個規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2920.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2937.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
完了以後才署長去做勞檢的執行所以規範很重要所以主委你確確實實是我少數啊在立法院裡面較為尊敬的為什麼規範勝過於檢查規範完善自然啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2944.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2968.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
問題的發生就會少你等了檢查以後發生的事情以後那這個職安自然就會發生所以在這裡啊雖然我們吳主委沒有續任但是我也覺得很奇怪我個人意見啊現在政府怪怪的好人不留起來不好的他就塞來了所以我相信吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2969.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2994.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
你未來在這個部分我相信你也扮演極為重要角色希望繼續對公共工程的合約的規範以及你的經驗要多加以在這裡提供意見但是我這個人是講究感情看到你這麼好的要離開吳主委一分鐘給你你有什麼感覺這幾年對於這個問題你有什麼感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2999.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3013.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
首先,非常謝謝林委員對工程會的支持跟指教。從林委員上任之後,一直對扁會的存在與否也非常的關心。我們非常感謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3014.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3029.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
公共工程的建設從勞安到這個建設的進行都需要從這個工程會以及各機關共同來這個努力才能夠來達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3030.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3058.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那麼當然我很佩服剛剛委員看出問題從源頭那麼就要規定清楚那麼加上落實執行才能夠達到目標我想每一個勞工都是我們的同胞都是我們的人民都是我們建設的一份子我們都應該要給予來關心來照顧讓他不要這樣發生不要這樣讓他們的生命受到威脅這是我們應該努力的事情謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3060.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3088.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
主委還是謝謝你啦剛才我們有一個共識就是規範跟執行有了規範才有辦法去執行那執行這是被動的但是規範非常重要所以合約裡面你有這種比較先前的管理規劃這一點我確確實實對於我們工程會我確確實實是比較較為肯定那個署長我想請教你一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3089.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3113.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我們說實在的當然因為這個合約的規劃主管機關是吳主委是工程會但是檢查機關變成是你現在有產生一個檢查有兩個步驟六都跟台灣省就我們勞動部也有自己的檢查機構但是六都你現在還是委託勞動局 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3116.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3137.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
勞動局他們在做檢查這個部分你們採取如何舉例在台北市勞動局在做檢查的時候你們基於這些督導單位跟委辦單位你這個部分你對於整個處理的部分你如何去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3138.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3163.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
謝謝委員提的指教那我們勞動部針對六都部份是授權勞動檢查機構實施勞動檢查那他檢查的方法程序標準是跟我們中央是一模一樣的那委員關心是我們如何督導這些地方檢查機構按照標準來進行我們每年除了考評之外我們重大工程會做聯合稽查那有發生重大事故的時候我們他實在的處理情形我要報告我們治安署做最後核定所以我們是採取 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3164.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3167.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
另外一個我要提供,提供兩位所長,也就是日本的參考資料,你們一定要根據我所了解,臺北市的公共工程,臺北市的建築案, |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3189.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3204.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3204.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3207.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
最後一個我想請教署長營建業為什麼會這麼嚴重? |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3230.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3247.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我跟你講喔,依照新加坡、日本、英國來講,他們的職安只有40%喔,非常之低喔,但是我們的營建業在這裡是有70欸。署長你最清楚,這個部分你應該要怎麼樣去防範,怎麼樣去做。 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3250.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3272.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
謝謝委員我們營造業的職災死亡是全國的50%70%是墜落災害是所有的職災裡面是70%是墜落的部分所以我們認為說臺灣其實某種程度是層層轉包造成我們管理上的缺失所以不管是企業上的要求跟現場的監督檢查不能只查大包下包的人有沒有做好安全衛生的管理跟措施也是我們的重點所以我們今年除了針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3274.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3276.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
最後我還是用30秒特別祝福我們吳主委長命百歲然後永遠快樂當然有機會回來找我們召集人 召集人會請客我們會作陪 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3300.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3321.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
好不好那最後我真的還要代替所有勞工啊拜託我們的規劃很重要有了規劃要執行也比較好執行所以公共工程裡面主管合約的規範拜託主委卸任以前要把這個把它規劃下去一新知二 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3321.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3322.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
林委員發言完畢現在請黃建豪委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3359.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3359.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3376.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3391.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
主委一開始我也是要延續我們前面林國成委員對您的肯定我想這幾年下來我想公共工程會相對來講真的是一個比較穩定的一個單位我想因為工程會也牽涉到很多的這個工程面的問題我們當然希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3392.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3421.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
像這個主委這種性格穩定有專業的人才應該留用當然新政府有新政府的考量選擇了另外一位這個有一些爭議的人來當你的下一位的工程會主委但我想說今天主委其實我剛剛提到了包含說我們鄰國省委也非常肯定主委過去這些年的表現那主委你有沒有什麼樣的期許跟這個經驗傳承可以透過這個地方來提供給我們新的主委主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3424.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3439.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
謝謝委員的指教我想在我們公共工程的推動方面每一個環節都相當重要尤其是剛剛委員提到有從源頭的管理公共工程委員會有一 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3439.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3457.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
一個角色就是扮演全面的規劃推動那麼每一個環節就要從源頭就要規定包括預算的編列設計到建造施工那麼我們會把這樣的一個做法會讓未來的這個主任委員跟我們團隊會繼續的努力下去謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3459.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3473.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
主委我想你把一些規範建立起來後續接手的人如果不要胡搞瞎搞的話我想這個相對還是能夠去穩定下去啦那談到這個規範的部分我也注意到工程會最近推出了所謂的檢探的這個新的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3474.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3488.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那這個是所有的這個電子採購網都要新增所謂減碳的欄位,要求說部會在這個興建工程的時候要預估這個碳含量,因為我想接下來這個未來的碳稅也好,未來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3490.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3493.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
因為從目前的這個網站填寫看起來他並沒有說這個要求要填寫多少的這個碳含量就他寫多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3520.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3545.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
隨便他寫還是有個規範但有沒有實質的這個方向還是說只要有寫的他就能夠通過了謝謝委員的主調有關這個生態減核能源減碳這個部分在公共營建工程方面他佔有很大的一個部分那他必須從設計規劃設計到施工全生命週期都要去兼顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3546.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3572.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那現在工程會本來生態檢核生態檢核方面已經早就有這個規定那麼目前我們是先提醒各機關預備現在一個規劃那麼做準備未來會配合相關的部門他們規定減碳的相關的一些規定的這個百分比之後再會進入到實質的這個執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3574.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3593.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那特別跟委員報告公共工程的這個進行不是只有施工階段,必須從設計規劃就要開始,就要去把它注意到這個材料工程的這個運用,那麼才能兼顧到後面的減碳的這個部分,必須要重頭來管理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3594.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3613.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
主委因為碳排這問題我想所有的尤其是台灣現在有很多的營建工程營建工程它本身它本來的碳排就非常非常的高所以我想問就是說再次想確認一下所以目前來講現在所謂的採購的部分像填寫碳排的這個碳含量的部分是它只要有填就可以呢還是它是要有一個實際的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3615.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3641.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
才能夠通過這個網站的設定目前是由他自己來做一個主動的一個來填報那未來就會詳細的規範未來是透過什麼單位?經濟部還是環境部?還是還沒有討論?他們會有一個這個詳細的規定之後我們這邊就會落實到規範裡面進去來要求處刑那這個期程是由你們來訂的還是由其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3642.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3651.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
負責這個所謂碳排業務的單位來定?由他們來定,我們就來組成。好,主委謝謝齁。那接下來我要就教一下我們勞安署,我們署長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3653.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3674.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
委員好,署長我想這個我看到一些新聞啊,那包含說我們現在因為職災勞工的重建的服務量可能在各個地方相對比較不夠那過去財產法人職業災害預防及重建中心編了2500萬元要在我們高雄來成立所謂的職業健康及重建之家 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3675.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3697.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那我要提到說過去其實在其他城市有所謂的職災職能復健的專責醫院跟這個職災職能復健的強化的訓練機構那到底專責醫院訓練機構跟這個所謂重建之家他彼此之間的這個權責跟這個架構有什麼差別可以請署長說明一下謝謝委員的指教這個我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3698.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3723.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
整個職災落空的重建的機制在110年新的災害法令進來之後我們有指定了17家職業災害整治專責醫院還有32家職能復健專責醫院還有其他工作強化中心那這個重建這家是我們新成立這個草原法人職災預防重建中心想要做個示範的模式希望我們這個中心能夠針對比較特殊個案做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3724.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3744.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
整體上復建的一些事辦,事辦的結果再不會讓到我們剛剛講的那個強化中心或者是說是地方的職能復健專責醫院,那這個從業之家目前還在規劃中應該是9月份才可以上路,那過程中我們不會再不斷的檢討,有關跟我們診治醫院跟我們職能復健醫院跟工作強化中心的三方三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3745.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3770.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
三個機構的整合跟協調我們會做細緻的討論讓這個能夠順利的上路那這個重新執交未來只會一個城市有嗎還是各地都會來辦理相關的業務報告委員我們會先做示範那我們會主張是有比較有私人災害比較多的勞工為優先的地方那我們為什麼起步高雄因為高雄是重工業而高雄職業災害私人的人數也相對比較多所以我們先選那個地方做示範好署長那我們看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3772.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3792.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這近三年所謂勞工職災保險現金寄付人次裡面你可以看到每年看下來其實六都裡面比較多人申請職災的人是在臺北跟台中啊他佔的比例相對比較高所以剛剛署長提到說高雄在你的這個統計裡面好像你覺得比較多所以你要先以高雄做示範區 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3793.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3803.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
但是以看這個數字來講的話,其實臺北跟台中申請職災保險的這個心理檢測員是相對比其他地方也來得多,但第一名臺北,第二名台中,第三名高雄,這是這幾年下來統計數據長這樣子,所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3806.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3823.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個像這個這個你剛剛講那個之家齁這個職業這個職能訓練之家齁跟後續的這個會面的規劃包含說我們的職災專責醫院臺中4家臺北2家那高雄有5家齁所以在比例上面是不是在資源分配上會有點不均衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3824.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3852.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
謝謝委員提醒其實我們的專責醫院、復健醫院都是要讓老公可靜靜性的那臺中市現在是5家那有關需要的部分只要醫院有可以我們也可以互相做調查來增加但是醫療量能的部分也要做一些平衡性的檢討那跟委員回報這個這個是整體的指摘起步包括死亡、失能跟傷病那我們剛剛跟委員回報的是失能部分確實是高雄市比較偏多的那未來臺北、臺中要不要增加我們看事辦的效果怎麼樣會再做後面的整體考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3852.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3865.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
主要目的是讓受災勞工他能夠得到重建的資源跟一些迅速回到職場這是我們施政的目標有些委員提醒好,署長謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員發言接下來邀請李坤澤召委發言謝謝陳書業委員請吳主委還有周署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3881.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3882.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
主委你好,署長你好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3893.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3911.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
勞工在我們去年勞動部的相關的這樣的一個資料顯示全國有1039萬的人是投保勞保那也代表著有千萬的勞工勞工最重要的當然我們在過去幾年勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3912.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3937.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
有推動相關的一些政策出步也有一些成果例如在勞保的政府撥補以及國家最終支付責任的這樣的一個宣誓讓勞保的這樣的一個信心的穩定提升不少當然我們對於相關的最低工資法在過去幾年我們也逐年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3938.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3963.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
調漲相關的基本的這樣的一個工資那也確定了最低工資法另外我們也針對勞工的職業災害我們也進行了勞工職業災害保險及保護法就是希望對勞工的就業環境以及相關的受到職業災害的時候對於他相關的津貼補助有一定更制度化的這樣的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3963.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3977.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那對於它私能或者是這樣的一個在職業重建或者是社會重建也更具有制度的這樣的一個建立不過我在這邊還是要針對勞動部尤其是職安署我對於職災的這樣的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3985.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4003.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我始終是不滿意的因為每一個勞工代表的是每一個家庭最重要的經濟及生活的支柱那我們來看我們的職災一直是沒有辦法有效的降低我們看職安署2022年勞動檢查的統計聯報2022年職災死亡是320人 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4013.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4025.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
凍結業佔了156人這個我要提醒署長跟這個主委我們的重大職災凍結業還是佔大多數那我們看到凍結業佔了156人是佔了48.7是近5年來最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4030.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4043.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
中到職災的類型中,墜落及滾落佔了48%,剛才署長也提到今年是所謂的墜落打擊年,已經要成立一個墜落打擊點來處理相關的職災的這樣一個墜落的狀況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4047.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4070.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
另外倒塌及崩線佔了9%那重大的職障礙他的原因分析我們來看44%是不安全的動作跟設備兼具另外21%是不安全的設備31%是不安全的動作那因為不安全的設備或動作的罹災人數是高達96%署長我必須要提醒我們來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4072.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4095.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
剛才提到職渣的死亡人數我們來看失能的人數因為受傷失能我們的頻率是持續的增加那這也代表勞工深陷在危險的工作環境當中2022年職渣的失能人次是累計達到13000人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4100.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4105.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
2018到2022年我們的失能傷害的頻率由1.27提升到1.49 署長你說明一下為什麼我們的職災 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4111.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4133.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
沒有辦法有效的降低,死亡跟相關的受傷失能的人數還是居高不下來,說明一下。謝謝委員的指教,那我們2023年去年比起2022年有略降,但是我知道事正是這個成績是不能讓外界能夠肯定,那我們繼續再加油,那營造業的部分確實是每天工作環境是變動的,每天進來的包裝也不見得一樣,所以他 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4134.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4159.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
整個工地的現場管理就非常關鍵當一個監工人員或是工地主任一轉眼他工作者沒有戴安全帽或是沒有安全設施他就可能產生風險所以我覺得這個部分是整體上工程單位在現場的全時間的管理這個是非常重要的那有關不安全設備關牆動作我們現在建築檢查以這個為重點那今年的墜落打擊是希望說把我們全國的職災重重墜落災害是50%營造業份是將近到70%所以我們今天認為是 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4163.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4184.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
銀造業的墜落是我們最大的關鍵來預防那特別是民間工程的部分是更嚴重而公共工程的部分墜落距離也稍微降下來了但是民間工程的墜落像中小型的建案像台灣其實建築業的狀況還OK所以量是非常多的所以我們透過這樣的機制要求從銀造所管機關包括國土署也可以一起幫忙來做這樣子整體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4185.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4202.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
市長跟主委我必須要提醒你們我們違反職安法的案件最多就是缺乏相關的安全設備我們來看這兩年的公共工程這兩年公共工程2022年違反職安法的案件是達到17169件2023年違反職安法的案件是達到15241件它其實最多的就是違反第6條就是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4212.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4229.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
必要的這樣的一個安全衛生設備另外就是違反第23條未制定職安的管理計畫這個都是可以去改善去要求去督促的但是就是沒有做好造成那麼多的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4230.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4248.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
不幸死亡或是受傷失呢這個職安署必須要更提升相關的這樣的一個查核能力我們來看公共工程施工查核的相關常見的缺失樣態來做一個統計那我們職業職安署提供的資料來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4250.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4262.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
公共工程委員最嚴重的就是第6條就是說工作場所缺乏安全的設備合適的安全相關的設備跟措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4263.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4283.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
就是啊這個是重大職災的最主要成因啊剛才我們看到相關的這些統計的數據那就是說不安全的動作不安全的設備這是有高度的關聯來我們對於啊職安的訓練必須要加強我們對於啊工程會必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4284.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4293.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
去加強查核這些並且優化這些工作的環境的安全以減少職災的發生來主委說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4295.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4320.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
謝謝委員的指教剛剛我想從委員開始在這邊這個執行一直以來都非常重視我們勞工的安全那剛剛委員提到這個問題我覺得為什麼會公共工程或營建工程會有高低的落差那麼它的違防範措施跟勞工本身的安全措施不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4320.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4346.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
才有這個情形。我想這方面我們應該在執行面會來要求徹底的來執行這樣一個防範工作。好。署長我最後有一個具體的要求。我們有一個雲端系統應該要優化跟精進。就是說我們的2023年公共工程違反職安衛生法的像素達到15241件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4350.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4358.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我認為應該要建置違反職業安全衛生法的一個查詢的系統就是說除了工程的查核應該達到10%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4361.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4379.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
並且應該額外針對違反職安法達到一定次數發生重大職災一定年限內或一定年限內頻繁發生職災的業者要加強進行查核而且也要達到一定查核的比例來最後的時間署長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4380.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4381.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
最後的公共工程委員會在本會期的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4408.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4425.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
吳主委是一個盡忠職守的政務官也希望你能夠身體健康注意自己身體健康的維護也謝謝你這幾年不管為宜蘭或者是為 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4427.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4430.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
謝謝委員的支持、處長跟關心。好,謝謝李崑澤、趙薇的發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4458.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4460.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
現在請陳樹岳委員發言謝謝昭偉那請昭偉邀請吳主委請主委委員你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4481.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4503.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
主委早安那本席在這邊首先來關心有關公共工程的這個執行率的問題那我們看到就是有關公共工程委員會在網站上也有公告就是公布有關就是歷年來我們國內公共工程的這個執行情形創這個三高那這個三高就是包括這個總經費高 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4505.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4521.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
執行率高還有達成率高這樣子的一個成績那我們也看到就是在這個統計表裡面我們看到歷年來就是尤其在2023年我們總經費是達到6787億那整體的執行率有6530億那達成率高達這個96.21%所以看到這樣子的成績那我們當然也 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4534.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4560.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
給予高度的一個肯定那當然就是說對於過去這幾年來我們國內我們也知道就是說受到整個這個COVID-19的這個疫情的一個影響包括俄烏戰爭整個國際這個戰爭的影響所以事實上這個缺工缺料還有原物料上漲的情形所以我們在公共工程的執行的情形仍然有這樣子的成績當然我們也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4561.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4578.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
給予高度的肯定那不過在這邊本席就是要請教說我們所就是公布的這樣子一個執行率可是相較說我們在地方上所看到的很多的這個公共工程在辦理這個招標的時候啊這個流費標的比例是相當高的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4582.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4584.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
統計數字從2020年21、22、23這幾年的統計數字在第一次招標時決標的數字比例在2023年是339件 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4603.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4623.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
總件數是1267件所以呈流費標的比例是高達73.24%所以這樣子的一個比例那相較我們做的這個執行這個情形創三高這樣子的一個狀況所以讓我覺得好像有一些落差是不是可以請主委說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4623.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4640.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
好謝謝委員的指教那麼這幾年確實我們遭遇到疫情還有原物料上漲的關係但我們在公共工程的執行方面那麼逐年有提升達成率的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4641.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4670.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那這個當然有賴於我們大會委員大家的支持還有各機關一起的努力才有這樣的一個成果那另外我們從源頭那麼管控像比方說砂石料來講一般婦女圖最重要就是砂石料我們每一個月都在追蹤砂石的提供的這個數量跟來源要穩定這樣的話到一般婦女圖這邊才能夠正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4671.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4686.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
來出料另外在價格方面也要求經濟部這邊採取固定價格來讓售給業者這樣的話原物料穩定下來加上大家一起的努力才有這個成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4687.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4711.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那麼在流標方面剛剛委員提到那麼我們統計起來也差不多在10%左右的一個流標率那這個部分我們檢討結果發現其實很多東西是機關沒有去做好應該去考慮到的比如說它的設計的不周延它的這個甚至有一些經費來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4713.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4723.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
這一個不穩定的狀況之下那麼不遮掩的情況之下廠商觀望或不敢進場這一些我們都有在要求機關來檢討改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4725.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4755.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
是,那我這邊再請教一下就是說有關我們工程會統計的這個執行情形呢是指發包之後開始的一個管控還是說包括在辦理招標或這個決標的時候就開始做一個管控我們的管控是從發包、決標開始開始啦所以流費標這個之前不算就對了,不算執行率不是,局費標也會掌握在我們的手上那麼也會加以去做一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4756.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4770.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
是,因為這個工程如果每流廢標一次就是會影響到這個工程的一個進度,完成的一個時間。所以事實上對地方的鄉親或者是主辦的這個業務的機關其實他們也都是非常的在意,因為辦理發包的機關他們也希望能夠順利的發包出去。 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4775.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4796.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那當然就是說剛剛主委有回答就是說這個流標的原因有很多的面向包括就是沒有實際這個編列預算或者沒有訂定這個工期等等那我們也看到就是說工程會也有會診這個工程招邀前各階段機關應該注意重點及說明然後也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4796.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4797.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
公共工程自動化及預註化規劃設計指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4818.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4838.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
請教一下就是說這個參考指引對於業務機關有沒有實質上的一個幫助我想請教就是說比如說目前我的這個選區有一個公所他有一個工程他在可能兩年前就已經獲得中央核定的經費可是他在經過這兩年來才完成的這個細部設計可能在 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4840.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4840.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
公共工程委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4861.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4874.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
可以 這個我們會馬上來了解他雖然是在兩年前開始但是他應該以現在的預算價格來編列如果經費有所不足應該馬上做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4875.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4891.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
是,可以做這樣子的一個處理是,那就是說在工程的一個就是希望能夠推展順利當然就是也需要我們工程會這邊給予就是一些協助那這樣子才能夠讓我們的地方的這個工程能夠順利的一個推展 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4892.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4916.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
好,剛剛這個案子委員在給我們,我們馬上來瞭解。好,謝謝。那因為時間的關係,在最後我也要肯定一下我們的主委,就是在任內,您的專業為我們的公共工程真的也是貢獻良多。那尤其我想有一個部分很多人都不知道的,就是有關濁水溪的這個沙塵暴的一個防治。 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4916.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4944.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我覺得這個是以前的執政的政府沒有辦法做的可是在主委的任內這個績效非常的大這部分是不是可以請主委稍微說一下讓大家知道這個部分其實是我們在行政院各部會包括水利署、經濟部還有農業部還有環保署大家包括縣地方政府一起的努力那主要大家同心協力包括我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4945.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4972.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
大院委員的支持給我們預算我們才能夠來去落實去執行當然這裡面找到原因對政策要很重要而且持續的各部會一齊來努力才有這個成果我們這個問題希望能夠持續下去讓我們地方民眾不要再甲蚌膠刷我們有一個現在有新的一個生態 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4972.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4988.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
． |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4989.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5014.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
因為事實上對於不是生活在那個區域的人就是這個包括雲林我們彰化就是南彰化海線的鄉鎮這個十分嬌酸這個很多人可能沒有辦法去體會就是這個東北季風來臨的時候整個這個沙塵暴非常的嚴重真的是十分的嬌酸所以我覺得這部分真的是要給予我們的主委一個肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5015.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5023.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
好 謝謝委員的主教跟關心好 謝謝陳樹越委員發言完畢現在請魯明哲委員發言好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5038.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5046.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
有請我們工程會吳主委,請吳主委,還有我們勞動部職安署周署長,請周署長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5054.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5072.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
首先請我們職安署周署長今天有我們談到職業災害當然在這個114年5月1號我們新的把這個保險跟我們職災這個保護把它合併給上路了那我們看到你們這個你們自己的網頁自己的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5074.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5093.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
統計表格非常非常的一個詳盡那我們特別請教一下在111年度職業災害統計用行業別來看當然有這麼多的一個行業那我們特別有注意到我們把前六個我講重點管理啦重點管理就是總共 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5096.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5120.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
111年產生的職業災害總共有17482人在這個統計表上面但是哪一些行業類別它的人數最多這是一個管理的一個重點我相信你們也是這樣我們看到第一名是運輸跟倉儲業第二名批發零售第三名住宿餐飲第四名是製造業類別裡面的電子零組件 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5121.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5149.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
第五名是醫療保健跟社會工作服務業第六名也是製造業的金屬這個製造製造製造業裡面那我想針對於降德的這個6個行業就佔50.7%就等於說在重點管理這個部分請問一下你們有沒有針對於這個因為這已經是111年了就今年來講你們對於看到這樣的一個統計表格你們用什麼作為作為一個重點管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5150.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5173.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
謝謝委員的詢問這是全產業的職業災害包括死亡、失能跟傷病那針對這是全產業的部分我們會針對不同產業的災害特性我們訂立專案檢查做監督檢查有一些指引跟一些規範會要求那其實公共工程營造業部分雖然是它整體比例低但死亡率是高的所以我們把營造業當作我們重中之重做 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5174.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5199.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
災害預防檢查特別是重大災害的預防檢查好 我在想今天除了營造業之外先難得碰到你再跟你討論除了營造之外省哥的一個脈絡我覺得因為我們新的法規其中有20%的預算當然允許你有法規讓你去做這個植栽的預防跟重建這個很重要我覺得預防是重中之重 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5200.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5222.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
你預防做得好重建的需要就稍微慢慢的一個減少所以我們在預防的工作當然我們要看你統計的數字像這些這個產生的次數比較高的我們要怎麼樣去不管是愛心輔導或說去教導讓怎麼樣那這個產業已經在我們在台灣已經是幾十年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5223.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5248.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
為什麼每一年去輔導然後有很多的一個手冊為什麼一直他改進的速度幅度比較慢我覺得是不是想方設法真的要針對重點去做處理當然你剛剛講的第二個是嚴重程度了那我們刻意看到了我們營造業如果發生職災的話是屬於嚴重的就像你看這樣現在的我列出來以人次比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5249.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5277.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
多的排序的我們看到第6名雖然他是排第6名可是你看到後面一個表格是永久失能還部分失能就是真的就是他已經產生了終身的一個傷害甚至有一些已經永久失能這個的部分數字我們發覺在金屬製品製造業他雖然是第6名可是他一旦發生他可能產生永久 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5278.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5278.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5297.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5318.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
謝謝委員提醒那個基礎支援施造業是機械的切割捲匣造成勞工的上肢下肢傷害造成失能所以我們針對那個切割捲匣的企業的輔導我們有專案的處理那如果企業要改善他的措施我們還可以著以補助所以我們針對不同重點部分我們會做細項的展開也非常謝謝委員提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5318.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5344.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好 謝謝組長我不希望幾年之後看到你稅率順盈存錢存一大堆這個給你這個錢是要出來做事的那再來我們吳主委辛苦了因為你是做事人我們很多人都肯定你謝謝你那我們因為我比較擔心一件事這個就沒有談職災了就是因為我們這個T3T3第三行下當時發泡遇到很多問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5345.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5374.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
謝謝你你作為一個總督導你最了解那現在一個情況是說我們蠻擔心啊當時講好的一個時程講好的一個進度會不會有很大的一個改變那我們現在發現第一個問題上次我有跟你提一下那我最近有要到這個數據了那我們有看到在2024年4月來統計我們營造業移工的部分移工的部分因為現在本國的一個像有些產業找不到勞工啦所以我們去年不是一直在談這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5375.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5375.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
公共工程委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5392.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5408.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我看到陶基T3也是在疫情的時候缺工的時候第一波你們核准的公共工程陶基那時候1300多位移工然後好不容易進來了我的天啊就在大概兩年的期間1300多人跑掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5412.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5435.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
五百一十九人高達三十九將近四十八那你再看這跑掉的人數跟全國總共公共營造業跑掉的人哇天啊他占到百分之二十啊欸這個第一個為什麼會怎麼樣這樣第二個對於那個如果人力一直沒有補齊你你看到這個會不會對工期有所影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5438.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5462.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這個問題我在列管上面有發現這個問題就剛剛委員所指教的逃跑幾乎是這個比例相當高逃機這個外勞的進駐比例的提高是全國第一件我們協調勞動部特別准許他提高比例的進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5463.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5488.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
但是呢進來之後竟然大量的逃跑非常不應該那當時我就要求勞動部跟這個淘機工地你再這樣的話我們要把原來的額度要收回結果他們就馬上從這個重介業跟實際的管理兩個著手大量降低比例在10%以下那所以這個部分是不應該發生應該要去防範的 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5489.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5518.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
不過這個是其實我覺得蠻可怕的那到底有什麼樣一個集團我覺得這是勞委會勞動部啦勞動部你要在第一線要處理啦我看到你們每次在講說僱主要怎麼去罰啦天啊說真的我們這些移工朋友我們真的很歡迎他他沒有責任你知道嗎把錢匯光光抓到那一天不好意思機票錢也沒有罰款也繳不起他就回去了然後我們就說我們很有人權但是對我們台灣的僱主我們台灣人民真可憐啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5519.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5542.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們沒有人權啊我覺得這個當然雖然不是你直摘的啊但我覺得真的是滿complain他們說跑就跑然後說第一波因為一千多人大部分都是越南籍的所以我覺得發覺這個組織啊如果沒有一個叫做現在這個叫做國家隊啊我看這個問題是持續發生的啊不過我希望就在T3的部分啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5543.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5544.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們會來繼續督促,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5570.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5590.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
魯明哲委員發言完畢先在此先做宣告本日有委員提出臨時提案依本會王立在登記質詢本會委員發言告一段落後處理稍後與林佩祥委員詢答完畢後我們會休息10分鐘隨後 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5592.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5598.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
休息完畢之後,隨即處理臨時提案。先做以上的宣告。現在請何欣淳委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5623.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5637.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
三月四日我曾經質詢有關碳排資料庫的事情。這有關公共工程有大宗資產的碳排盤點現況。所以三月四日到現在不知道進度如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5640.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5652.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
有關碳排的減量的問題工程會一直在推動這樣的一個做法是但是一直沒有一個一個量的一個限制鼓勵的限制來要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5653.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5673.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以我才會在質詢的時候在希望我們公共工程委員會能夠更積極更進一步的我們希望能夠逐步的建立我當然知道要一步到位是不可能但是這個是我們近年碳排的未來一定要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5673.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5673.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
主委可以嗎?可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5699.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5719.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
因為呢,我們今天也會處理一個臨時提案,我有連署蔡其昌委員,共同來提案,我們就是認為說在這個公共財,對不起,綠色的一個採購,公共工程的綠色採購裡面,我們如何能夠呢,由政府的力量來扶植,來大力的推進,這個是很重要的一件事,不是嗎?因為這是環環相扣的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5721.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5721.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5739.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5741.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我希望知道說從3月到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5764.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5768.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
第二、我要請教主委,等一下可能,欸,治安署今天有到對不對,臺中捷運 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5771.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5776.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
財中捷運這個吊塔吊落這個牽涉到這個工地的一個安全問題工地管理的問題那我們看到監察院的報告已經出來了監察院的報告他認為長期的代付跟終結原先的設計不良等等因素那終結原先的設計不良那個我們另外再討論但是起碼我們今天在講的是什麼工地上的職安的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5799.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5818.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那這職案呢,不僅僅牽涉到工地現場的勞工朋友們,它也牽涉到外部的我們所有人民的一個安全的問題。從台中捷運這件事情是給我們一個非常生痛的教訓。那既然有了這麼慘痛的教訓,那我們怎麼去改進? |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5819.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5843.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那監察院的報告給兩位做個參考跟你們兩位都有關係一個職安署對塔式的起重機的檢查跟控管不足那也沒有跟地方政府做聯繫那裡面還有我們對現場作業的勞工沒有依SOP來操作也沒有採取安全的作業方法便宜行事再來又講到職安署長年來消極 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5844.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5860.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
消極的職場減災宣導那我們國內的營造業大小規模非常不一致所以呢能量也不一致能力也不一致那所以長期對公安的輕忽這也是原因之一那 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5861.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5885.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
長期在國內的工地的營造業的這個公安就牽涉到你們兩個部會嘛一個勞動部的職安署跟當然地方在地方政府中央另外公共工程委員會這也必須要負責任啊因為我知道公共工程委員會他對於各公共或者是民間的各項的這個工程的一個工地裡面也有所謂的安全指引啊還有減災指引啊還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5888.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5913.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我記得還有什麼緊急什麼避難啊什麼什麼的指引反正指引一堆我有去上網去看了一下那我們公共工程委員會都是頒布指引然後都寫一張公文比如說0403花蓮地震之後那你們也發了一紙公文要求從中央到地方各行政機關呢大家呢都要注意盤點這個公共工程跟公共建物的這個安全問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5914.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5928.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我通常說公共工程委員會不是只有發公文或是頒布指引而已啦那如何去要求跟落實我覺得就透過剛剛很多委員都提到你們都有在稽查你們在稽查了之後呢除了開法 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5929.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5952.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那還有什麼樣的措施?那所以等一下請公共工程委員會吳主委回答那我也另外請職安署我們署長也來告訴我們說那從終結事故之後職安署又看到了監察院的報告之後又對我們工地上的這個安全的管理還有勞工的職場安全的管理那又是如何?吳主委要先回答嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5955.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5971.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
公共工程相關的安全等等當然公共工程委員會他不是執行機關他會要求各機關要來落實來執行但是我們公共工程委員會在要求各機關要來落實的時候我們又是如何知道各 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5972.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5989.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
相關的機關有沒有落實?你們掌握管控的工具是什麼?主委我們就透過他們的執行我們會管控他的一個現場作業的進度跟狀況那麼會要求他的主辦機關上級機關應該要落實去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5992.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6008.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那剛剛委員提到這一個案件的狀況除了這邊提到的這一個本身吊塔這個部分的安全不周延之外我們後來做了一個指引要求像這樣一個高空作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6010.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6036.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以在這一件事故之前我們對下面的進空的這個指引是沒有的是到這個事故之後才有的這個指引其實本來就要做他沒有做那我們所以這個就是公共工程委員會我現在就是要求嘛既然 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6037.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6062.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
主委你這樣跟我講了我就覺得痛心你知道嗎如果本來就有這樣的指引為什麼沒有辦法落實那為什麼相關的單位沒有辦法去要求落實那所以你又發了一次公文來提醒各個行政機關說如果有調查這個工程有調查式的這個程序在進行的時候下面一定要淨空所以你又再發公文提醒各個行政單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6063.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6079.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
你的指引嗎?不是這樣本來他就應該要這樣做他沒有做我們今天是再度提醒所以你再度提醒,有罰則嗎?這個部分你沒有依照勞安的規定本來就要處罰的啊是嗎?所以來,署長請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6081.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6109.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
報告委員,有關交委的部分有個管全責,在採用這個案子,交委的部分...等一下,吳主委你聽喔,這個不是治安署,他說下面的淨空是交委,交委又是誰管的?交委是,你可能跟我講說是他們地方的交通局,那這個採取當然是地方政府的事情,但是呢我覺得公共工程委員會在這件事情上面應該在強烈的要求要落實這個指引,好,那來,署長不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6110.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6134.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這個終結的建造院的報告我們敘敘受教那我們第一時間針對全國的領域的工程總共是有109個工程我們做了全面的檢查因為台大的部分去年底的部分有全國242個工地我們做了全部的檢查那有關事發的案子的建造公司有44個工地全國我們做檢查那重點就是說是這個個案這個雖然不是職災但是對我們來講是很重大的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6136.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6154.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
公共安全事故但相對影響所以我們這個個案持續不斷要求地方檢查機構這個落實度的展開橫向聯繫非常重要像我們的有些案子審查之後地方交通單位知不知道這個個案交回機會能不能跟上去也是統合的整理的需要做橫向的 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6155.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6172.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
聯繫,至於工作人員的教育訓練,我們特別定一個相關規範,反正發現有錯誤的案態,那個工作者要再重新回來再做安全講習,我們也正式上路了,來告訴所有的公司,不是只有上面的領導者,連施作的操作人員,他的再訓練我們在做加強。 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6173.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6193.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
署長我是建議啦現場的這個工地的安全的指引當然公共工程委員會不斷的去要求我們職安署也要不斷的去要求我們現場執行勤務的工作人員你剛剛講的第一個他有沒有落實他的作業的一個SOP第二個他有沒有所謂的在職 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6194.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6216.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
在訓練的一個機制第三個我們如何能夠確保在現場執行勤務的施工工作人員他能夠把所有的安全措施做到到位我覺得這個方方面面都需要我們跨部會跟地方政府大家一起合作好不好而且可以思考一下如何去獎勵落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6218.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6220.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
謝謝主席,我們有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6254.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6267.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
委員你好主委早安早安感謝你登記以來對我們屏東的建設的關心在很多的公共工程上面給予屏東縣政府很多的協助讓我們的工程可以順利來進行謝謝表示感謝不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6271.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6289.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
主委準備520要被退休了我相信在這還是有幾個問題要來就教一下主委那我們還是本期還是期待就是未來公共工程委員會在主委這個之前的一個領導之下未來能夠無縫接軌我們自己去考慮我們繼續這樣延續做就好了不過我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6294.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6314.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
公共工程採購跟檢驗是一個很重要的一個項目那因為最近有發生了所謂一個警政署可能今年2月發下的那個防彈背心裡面的抗凹線板發生一些問題那針對這個5900件結果有1000多件有瑕疵就平均大概每6件就1件有問題但是當時在工廠抽菸的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6319.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6324.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
只抽到21件請注意這樣的檢驗程序有瑕疵嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6327.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6349.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
詳細的作業我要進一步的了解那基本上照講他應該從開始的採購會有一個標準的合格的樣品在那邊來作為依詢然後他驗收應該會有一個階段性的比例的要求那他有沒有照這樣來做這個需要進一步的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6350.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6374.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
對於說我們包含我們這個採購的評判檢驗的費用也好還是程序也好應該要照期間來做啦是不是這部分我們工程會針對這樣子有沒有在做怎麼樣一個要求我們各單位做一個這個都有他的我們的要求比方說他廠商自主要檢查的部分他會在整個承包的費用裡面來注印 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6375.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6394.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
如果是甲方要驗收抽驗的部分這個費用要由甲方另外去支付按照比例來進行所以這部分我們還是要求我們工程會應該是強化我們各單位針對這樣的一個抽檢的一個這個制度應該要強化畢竟這是我們的公帑我們百姓的納稅錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6398.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6412.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
發生這樣的一個弊端也不是我們所有的百姓樂見的啦另外我要請教諸位另外一個問題就是說因為我本席在屏東縣政府服務的時候我想我們縣政府針對所謂一個公產查核小組的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6413.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6430.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
重視都會很要求我們一個相關的工程那因為像2020年我們那個中寮國道3號的中寮隧道就有施工偷工減料的問題那我想請教主委我們自己工程會一年有查核多少的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6432.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6456.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
查火的部分分成兩個部分一個是機關、縣市、本身、主政業務該查火的比例這個在我們大院、我們理責局長一再的建議之下現在提升到10%以上這是他們機關、主辦機關要去做的事情那工程會這邊也有一個查火小組他是針對異常案件來加以來查火 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6458.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6471.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
主委那異常案件是針對檢舉案件才會來作抄的嗎檢舉或者是媒體有呈報還是有什麼的像審計部門、監察部門有提報包括大院的委員有提報的案件我們會去做專案的記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6473.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6487.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
主委這一點本期是建議這樣子因為以本期的了解其實各縣市政府包含我們的鄉鎮市公所也是都要看首長對於這個案子的這個查核工程的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6488.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6514.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
有重視的人他就是會收到就是會將這個當作一回事要求我們所屬的查核小組加強查核但是也有一些就是能夠應付的話但是應付的話就變成會有很多能夠在豆腐渣工程這些陸續會出現這其實也是危及我們百姓的生命財產的安全那這部分是不是我們工程會能夠主動強化我們各機關的一個查的能量能夠給予相關的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6515.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6540.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這個當然是我們的責任我們會來進一步的來檢查來檢視來進一步要求像剛剛委員提到中寮隧道這個案子那麼已經發生這種狀況要到這個有人檢舉才能夠發現那我們應該從這個地方來檢視他到底在整個施工的過程監督機制哪個地方環節出問題應該從這個地方去補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6544.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6569.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
主委謝謝另外剛剛我們核心村委員他們也有提到所謂一個碳排的部分那當然環境部在4月29號已經公布碳廢三職法的一個草案那剛剛我聽主委講說我們也在做一個因應那但是這個部分如果說環境部最快7月公告那你地方政府能夠來得及做準備嗎?主委這部分是沒有掌握狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6570.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6592.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這個部分我們已經在這個準備當中我們已經先行收集相關資料那麼要求各主辦公共機關先行自行做盤點那麼怎麼樣去做到結凍檢探這個部分來準備那麼來設想預先規劃那麼配合將來的這個要求能夠落實來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6594.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6616.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
主委之前媒體有報導所謂的一個弓箭的綠色膨脹我們有允諾要來做吸收那但是這個公共工程增加的成本的部分因為現在包含所謂的原料也好物價也好勞工的人力也好這部分真的是困難重重啊尤其我想未來我們面對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6617.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6627.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
除了工程除了這個營業成本之外最重要是缺工的問題那之前主委有提供要不要引進印度勞工這一部分那這部分是不是有跟勞動部有做一個協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6629.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6647.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這個部分勞動部這邊有這樣的一個準備那麼他是多一個進來的一個管道那這個部分我們尊重也有這個需要那我們在營建業的部分我們當然會來這個準備那麼從各方面的需求來因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6648.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6670.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
因為這畢竟這公共工程是我們很多建設的火車頭那我想主委也感謝主委這個展覽一年的努力未來我們也還是要再提醒一下公共工程委員會跟相關的部會因為目前公共工程的各項成本都在上升不管是未來碳排還是缺工的問題我們都要積極來面對這也能造成社會的這個動盪那謝謝 以下我們時間到這邊結束 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6676.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6676.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
委員發言完畢．休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6704.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6720.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
吳主委從35年前的基隆市政府工程局局長開始因為我昨天才跟我家老爺子林水木市長聊過天才知道您在基隆市政府任職過吳主委一向是以專業跟實事求是的態度來處理公務 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6721.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6742.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
這點是讓本席非常敬重的那聽說您因為說身體的因素跟自己個人因素想要倦情那本席認為這個是不只是對公共工程委員會的一個損失也是對我們中華民國公務系統一個很大的損失不過當然啦我們必須也要請教吳主委就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6743.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6761.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
以您的專業跟經驗想必對於您理想中的繼任者會有一定的標準跟期待那對於即將接任的陳金德成主委您會有什麼樣的期許跟建議讓他在這個公共工程委員會這麼重要的職位上面能夠升任呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6763.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6784.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
根據我個人來講這幾年來當然首先要感謝的就是大院國會委員的支持跟指教非常多那麼我們跟相關同仁以及所有機關也真的盡心盡力在推動公共工程建設包括品質包括進度包括各方面的這個要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6785.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6790.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那麼未來當然我們的期待我也相信應該會無論誰來接辦都會繼續的推動下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6794.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6821.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
好,不過老實講,針對媒體啦,媒體在我們去年9月23號,這當然標題是比較誇張,不過事實上也是說在去年9月份的時候,不只是屏東爆炸事件,還有很多的事故,導致說在去年9月平均每5天就有一則的死亡事故,那台灣重大的公安死亡率是新加坡的2倍,日本的1.8倍,請問吳主委跟周處長如何解釋這樣的現象呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6825.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6844.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
謝謝委員的詢問那台灣其實是整體的職業災害的降低是有逐漸降低但是確實是比較緩慢那參考日本跟新加坡是東南亞地區算是排名第一第二的國家他們國家的制度跟投入相對也是可以給我們做學習的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6845.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6862.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那我覺得我們臺灣特別是營造業的部分就是整理上管理的落實必須要再加強即使我們有規範有法規有監督檢查但是現場施工單位的現場的監督管理我相信是重中之重所以我們責安署會在未來現場的管理系統有沒有得到落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6862.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6887.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
會做比較細緻的追蹤檢查跟要求以上報告OK同樣也是在去年啦我去年有一份報導上面講說工商協會的秘書長有特地講說臺灣的勞動檢查員在2022年只有1033位所以說職業安全的檢查員也只有600多不到700位全臺灣那我們全臺灣的企業有多少我們怎麼可能檢查的完呢一個勞工發生職業災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6889.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6900.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
不只是只有他本身受到一些傷害其實會影響到整個家庭那我想請問現在已經是2024年請問現在勞動部是否有計畫來改善現況而且在未來做出有效的稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6902.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6929.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
謝謝委員 這個檢察員數字是正確的非常謝謝委員那我們認為我們的檢察社會是要分級風險檢查有比較高風險的比較重點的事項我們做檢查一般中小或者是比較微型或者是比較風險低的事業單位其他要做自主管理才是上策要不然每個事業單位都靠政府來檢查這個機制是不對的那包括日本跟新加坡檢察員的比例也沒有特別高所以我們檢察社會在做檢查我們做有效的監督檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6929.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6952.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
但是現場的他的安全衛生的監督人員或管政人員那才是我們的關鍵的重點我們第一線的安全衛生管理人員是我們現在要求培訓或更好的落實這是我們認為是可以做改善的比較正面的方法來進行好那我想請那我這邊也是想說我們知道其實在在這邊來講在公共工程裡面基層的勞工其實往往是最弱勢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6952.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6973.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
甚至說在日本、新加坡甚至所有的這個先進國家裡面所有當他們這些職災發生的通常都是最基層的勞工也是最低薪的勞工會被受到犧牲而本席對於公共工程勞工的保障是相當重視的但是我們說真的看到數據統計之後我們是非常失望請問主委有確實掌握職災中受傷的人數嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6974.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6986.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那輕重傷的比例、受傷的原因呢?那尤其是說施工廠商後續處理是否也要追蹤避免不肖廠商一再參加工程投標這些數字請問我們州署長都有確實掌握嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6989.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6989.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7007.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7029.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
法律沒有強制通報的部分當然就回到公司自主管理自主做自己的這些安全性要改善我想是層層的機制來做展開那我們暫屬或是勞動部針對重大案件的部分的追蹤還包括在發生的事業單位比如說我們講去年的中捷案件那個事業單位那個建設公司我們全國的盤查這個我們不會鬆手這樣請委員能夠能夠執行謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7031.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7046.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那我想請問一下那如果職安署知道狀況請問您知道說我們當然這個數字大家都知道就是在2022年111年的時候我們職災死亡人數是320人是5年來新高但是同年的職災失能傷害人次到達13000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7048.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7052.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那其實這代表說這個整個從107年到111年的統計失能傷害頻率也就是每百萬公尺導致失能傷害次數已經從1.27升到1.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7063.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7083.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這一個講起來如果以說說這個20%來算的話我們這期是已經超過20%了所以這是我們面臨很嚴重的職災嚴重狀況對吧跟委員報告我們職災有的統計數是有死亡、失能跟傷病那失能部分就是說傷害部分我們會做劣果那傷病的部分在過去兩年COVID-19有 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7084.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7085.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
放寬那個認定他是職業傷病給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7108.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7109.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這句話聽下去讓人覺得很心酸很不能認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7127.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7152.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
委員 我要澄清一下政府的監督機制我們不會說我們沒有責任但是整體上的現場管理事業單位他負有經營跟永續發展的責任所以我們是合作的關係而不是我們把責任就推給事業單位或推給雇主那甚至很多勞工受傷我們的後面的資源協助補助系統也是通過整個保險的機制來給予協助不會完全讓雇主完全承擔跟委員做這樣的澄清 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7152.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7181.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我希望勞動部會把這個慈安這件事情真的放在線上因為我們如果說我們被人家講說說我們每1.5天就會有一個勞工死亡這件事如果拿出來講的話其實是件非常駭人聽聞的事情我們自取為先進國家但是我們上面並沒有做得很好那最後面還是這邊吳主委是希望說您一切順利然後身體健康好謝謝非常感謝好謝謝林培祥委員發言完畢現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7187.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7188.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7217.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7219.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7231.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7232.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
公共工程委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7250.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7261.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我剛你來的時候我看到不是綠色的不是那個有啦綠色沒有你來的時候哪一本翻來翻去不是都記在腦袋裡面還在翻 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7271.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7271.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
這個已經超過三年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7290.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7296.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
一年喔?兩年喔?這書本的破壞力是太高了趕快再重新貼筆從封中 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7311.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7313.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
不是我說皮要包著不然精華還不見 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7336.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7348.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
二、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查九、審查十、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7358.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7386.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
二、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查九、審查十、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7390.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7396.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7416.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7424.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
法定人數不足法定人數不足法定人數不足法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7446.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7468.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
二、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查九、審查十、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7482.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7506.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
二、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查十、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7510.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7511.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
主委我也要跟你謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7540.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7540.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
致詢議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7558.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7584.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
跟主委拜託的那主委就同意我們的工程機關講這個優惠的部分禮約進行要不要去解辦比照進行講所以我們這就有引領了其他機關我們都不能講謝謝主委謝謝主委工程的關聯性很大其他的機關你任意的給講我們就接受就好我們那個評審也非常嚴謹我想也學習金主獎的模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7587.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7587.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
謝謝主委 謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7615.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7617.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
民間的目的的管理其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7637.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7640.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
臺灣其實像這些地震我們也會風險的控制也很深 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7661.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7661.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7678.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7691.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
二、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查九、審查十、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二、審查十二 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7700.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7701.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
公共工程委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7725.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7727.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7756.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7759.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7784.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7785.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7812.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7816.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
二、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查九、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審查十、審 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7842.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7869.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7873.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7892.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7908.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7911.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7926.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7953.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7959.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7970.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
公共工程委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7981.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8003.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
二、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8006.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8011.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
繼續開會,我們現在要處理臨時提案本日既有一案,請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8018.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8045.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
臨時提案依鑒於政府應主動帶動民間推動淨零轉型,原此要求公共工程委員會應就政府採購訂定每年綠色採購比例,以及提出公共工程減碳蓋礦並定期公佈資,提案人委員蔡其昌等。宣讀完畢請問各位委員及工程會有沒有意見?工程會,來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8047.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8062.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
主席及各位委員,工程會就這個提案基本上是競表同意,會專事辦理,但是能不能請示主席我們在倒數第二行這個委員會後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8063.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8077.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
因為這個案子會涉及到環境部的資源回收再利用法的這個執行那法源源頭是在那裡所以能不能在這個委員會後面加上會同環境部這五個字就是工程會會同環境部 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8079.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8097.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
主席第一個對於會統環境部本席沒有太多意見我會支持我覺得這個本來環境部主管的業務這個是主要在他們那我提這個案子主要還是老問題就是說我上一次的質詢我也去提到了就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8099.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8123.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我們在2050宣告經營碳排所以我們的速度說實在話一定要加快所以我上個禮拜問了循環經濟上一次我跟工程會在這裡討論的時候我提了那個循環經濟的概念那這一次我希望這個綠色採購的比例就是我看了一下那個數字我覺得還是不夠啦那當然這個我們現在綠色採購的 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8127.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8155.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
公共工程會可能主管的項目還是很低啦所以那個數字會很低啦那我的意思是說會統環境部也沒關係或者工程會也沒關係就是說我們除了督導公共工程督導公共的採購之外我們也應該在永續在淨零在SDGs上面我們應該要有一個更加積極的做法所以我才會要求你們說每一年綠色採購的比例你們要怎麼去逐年讓它上升 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8157.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8183.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
所以應該就政府採購訂定每年綠色採購比率逐年上升以及提出公共工程減碳的概況其實你們要加那個會同環境部我也想加每年綠色採購比率應逐年上升報告主席除了環境部的這個修正之外我也加幾個字每年綠色採購比率逐年上升以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8185.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8201.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
提出公共工程減碳蓋礦並定期公布。來,應該沒問題吧?認識辦理。好,修正通過。臨時提案處理完畢,如有委員對上述提案補簽,列入記錄並刊登公報。現在繼續請許智傑委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8217.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8219.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
主席主席我們請主委請吳主委你好主委好我想再次肯定主委在工程會對於這個採購案件的一個努力我想這個最有利標的絕標的目的我們都很清楚就是要防止最低標 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8247.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8264.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
隨便做做,或者是偷工減料,或者是工程品質不好,就像買沙一樣,我們買沙一定是買最有利標的,不是買最低標的。你要最適合你的品質跟價格能夠平衡,這個是我們最有利標的目的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8266.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8293.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我從當時吳洪某主委就開始要求一直到我們吳主委一樣是吳主委都一直不斷的在在意就是說我們最有力標的成果那進度到底有沒有不斷的進步所以我看我們從108年到112年那這一陣子也的確最有力標的比例都逐次的上升所以呢我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8294.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8314.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
這一個重點就是把政風跟主計加進來那未來我想吳主委將來他的好朋友會來接主委那我也要特別的就是說我們所有的工程會的所有的同仁這一個好的政策一定要繼續延續下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8316.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8335.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
吳主委其實這幾年對這個部分你就可以看到都有明顯的提升我們說希望說未來還是能像剛剛蔡貴昌委員提到的這個要逐步上升那逐步上升這是我們的要求所以也希望說我們工程會這部分可以多幫忙加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8336.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8360.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
好嘞 我們謝謝委員一直以來的指教我們會來努力所以要謝謝主委的努力那另外就是說工程會也表達就是未來公共工程的商機要放眼全球那當時主委也定下一個目標就是今年希望達到新台幣200億元那到目前我們已經達到了63億 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8363.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8364.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們有信心也會要求同仁繼續努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8376.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8398.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以其實今天看起來是像在跟主委見別的感覺但是呢我是覺得好的政策好的主委應該要繼續就是要延續下去所以這個希望說那個我們工程會所有的同仁未來也能夠繼續的加強這一部分國際市場的拓展 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8398.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8405.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那甚至就是我們的工程國家隊到目前為止成立的狀況是不是主委你覺得還滿意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8407.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8434.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我覺得還有努力的空間雖然大家這段時間盡心盡力包括從源頭開始起案去鼓勵他們到第一線去了解掌握情資狀況法令然後鼓勵業者組團隊來出去我想最後面的成就大家努力有相當的成果謝謝委員一直以來的這個指教跟支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8435.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8455.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
謝謝我想我們還是數據會說話啦就是目前63今年希望200明年也希望說工程會的所有的同仁也能夠一起要求自我就是能夠再繼續增加我舉個例子我們現在其實臺船有做一個做一艘船叫海事工程船 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8457.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8479.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這艘船是全世界第二大艘那這一艘船其實一出動好像一天的租金就要一千萬台幣所以收走的工程其實是蠻有技術性蠻艱難不是那麼容易的但是我們台灣有這個能量全世界第二大 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8480.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8505.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那將來我們工程會也如何能夠協助或者是如何能夠再拓展新南向或者是甚至其他國際市場我們可以好好的運用所以我想未來的工程國家隊也希望說工程會可以繼續不斷的去整理我們到底有多少的能力可以走向國際的市場好謝謝好那第三個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8507.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8530.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
工程會每年都會辦金職獎嘛那其實對於國家公共工程品質的要求這個我們會繼續的努力那我記得我跟主委提過現在在缺工的時代是不是有規劃比如說讓在一線的甚至營造廠的工人他們有成就感所以呢你比如說白天的叫做最佳藍鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8532.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8533.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8546.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8573.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
上一次委員這樣的建議非常好那現在我們已經納入規劃從勞工開始來鼓勵讓他有金子獎這樣的一個榮譽感就是現在已經規劃所以下一次什麼時候辦我們準備再看今年能不能把它納進來對今年嘛今年大概金子獎什麼時候辦在8月開始就會辦8月嘛所以你如果現在沒有準備等新的主委來再準備就來不及了對 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8575.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8595.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
所以我要特別的再強調一次就是說這個是一個好的概念那如果工程會也認為好的話那這一個是不是事先規劃就要把它規劃進去好沒問題我們已經在進行了好現在已經在進行了所以底下的同仁也都因為他必須修正一些規定讓他來 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8596.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8625.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
大家可以報名可以來鼓勵對所以我就說嘛因為你8月就要辦了嘛對今天你的好朋友來了之後也是520之後的事嘛如果那時候再來規劃保證8月是來不及了啦是所以我想說是不是主委能夠再要求我們的同仁那事先的工作先把它規劃籌備出來那在8月的時候才能夠順利的把這件事情完成好 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8626.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8643.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
沒問題啊這個是主委給我們的臨走前給我們的畢業禮物那也希望說這個諾言同仁一定要把這個主委的諾言能夠實現那這個其實是對全台灣的所有的職人精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8644.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8660.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8660.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8673.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
謝謝主委謝謝大家希望說我們工程會的同仁能夠繼續要求把這件事情再把它完成好謝謝好謝謝許志傑委員發言完畢現在請蔡其昌委員發言謝謝主席請吳主委請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8696.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8706.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
主委早首先謝謝主委這些年來對國家的貢獻所以在這裡先跟你說一聲謝謝那接下來我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8709.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8732.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
主委畢竟你還在位置上所以本席該建議該講的話我還是必須要善盡我立法委員的職責本席在長期以來因為過去擔任副院長期間大概很多的議題都在副院長的辦公室我們進行一些協調或協商那本席過去比較少有機會可以在這裡所以上次就教主 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8733.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8756.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
主委其實就是這個循環經濟的問題公共工程會在所謂這些相關工程的廢棄物等等包括這個刨除物我們應該有永續的概念在循環經濟的架構底下進行處理那今天我剛剛做了一個臨時提案這個臨時提案其實主軸都是一樣都是永續 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8758.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8775.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這個就是說我看了一下那個數字我們公共工程委員會這個政府採購所謂綠色採購金額的部分只有126億那我剛剛也請助理去了解一下這個126億主要的綠色採購在公共工程委員會向下主要都做哪些採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8778.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8802.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這個部分我們是鼓勵各機關他必須要去考慮包括各方面的這一個設計的考量他的建材、他的工法還有他的規劃的一個整體的考量應該從這樣就去把他圓頭就把他考慮我的意思是說我們統計126億這126億 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8807.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8835.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
數字這個金額實在是很低啦那我的意思是說這126億是不是有一些你的項目是沒有放進去綠色有一些我們做綠色採購的鼓勵但是沒有放進去我的意思問你這個問題我覺得這個有可能我們必須來再檢視對幕僚你們有提供給主委這個答案嗎就是早上助理告訴我好像只有碳粉匣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8837.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8856.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
是不是主委我覺得這些是使用的一些物品那我個人的看法更重要的就是在工程的剛剛我講的規劃設計來講就必須考量它的使用的材料主委我們一項一項來沒有關係我等一下會再請教那個綠建築的部分就綠色採購金額只有126億其實對本期來講這個政府的力道很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8867.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8893.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那我問了一下126億我們買什麼那大部分都集中在什麼碳粉匣啦或者一些部分商品看起來他佔政府採購的金額裡面看起來並不大那我的意思為什麼我做了這個臨時提案我的意思是說公共工程委員會跟環境部對於政府所有部門不只指於什麼紙張啊、碳粉匣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8894.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8914.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
應該對於所有政府部門在綠色採購上面我們應該做一個整體性的數字的統計如果我們沒有數字我們就無法管理我們就無法訂定目標所以本席的意思是說我做這個臨時提案交通委員會、朝野立委都同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8914.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8929.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
意思就是說接下來工程會跟環境部應該對於政府到底我們做了多少綠色採購今年做了多少我們明年成長1%成長2%逐年我們要把綠色採購成長那我們遇到的障礙是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8930.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8948.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
就沒有這些數據的統計跟管理我們沒有辦法訂定政策跟目標嘛主委這樣你懂我的意思所以本席要求要訂這個看起來公共工程會也沒有意見嘛只是加了環境部所以這是本席第一個我覺得應該來做在綠色採購上面第二個呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8950.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8974.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
在剛剛主委有去提到包括建築嘛建材啊等等那我們現在這個當然公有建築物的公有建築的所謂這個綠建築的標章這個是內政部在發啦但是內政部在發是發給你說你這個建築物有沒有符合綠色建築有我就給你綠色建築的標章嘛但是這個是他決定要做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8975.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8988.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
然後透過內政部的檢查給予合格標章那公共工程委員會要不要鼓勵或者我們有想出什麼樣的政策目標讓綠建築去申請的人變多主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8991.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8998.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
你有沒有什麼想法可以增加綠建築因為那個綠建築你看內政部的這個資料108年有191件到了112年也不過218件那蔡總統宣布2050淨零碳白的時間是在110年你看111年、112年其實都比110年件數來得少 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9016.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9027.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
所以本席的意思是說公共工程委員會應該訂定目標嘛對於綠色採購、綠色建築我們都應該有明確的這個方向跟目標主委你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9028.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9057.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我覺得兩方面跟委員報告那麼從各機關的採購也許會走向剛剛講的紙張、碳粉等等那就工程來講應該朝著另外一個層面怎麼樣從這一個工程本身的設計規劃去考量對包括材料的選擇沒有錯 這個我都支持有沒有方法有沒有方法讓這個數字可以開始往上走而不是一直停頓在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9058.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9079.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我覺得我們可以來從開始選商的時候就能夠納入評選的要求因為主委要卸任了啦所以我希望公共工程委員會的同仁新來的主委之後你還是要告訴他本期的關注焦點就是這個我對公共工程委員會最重要未來四年我都會問這個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9080.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9107.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我就是SDGs就是永續就是循環經濟就只有這個題目而已啦所以你們新來的主委你們要告訴他趕快定目標然後本期每一年在追蹤考察你們的目標有沒有照這樣去做謝謝主委那接下來那個治安署的那個連署長有來嗎周署長周署長周署長指連署長啦我都這樣來那主委你先請休息一下好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9109.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9138.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
委員好,好,署長好,署長那個齁我們齁在這個我們的這個永續的發展目標裡面我們勞動部有做自我檢視嘛那其中啊這個核心目標的8叫促進包容且永續的經濟成長其中具體目標裡面我們有促進工作環境安全及保障女性勞工參與工會權益然後我們也訂出了對應的指標對吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9139.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9154.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我看了一下這個數字因為時間有限我看了一下那個職災死亡的千人率我不管高跟低我只問一個問題就是說看起來沒有明顯的那種下降的這個趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9157.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9160.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法? |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9187.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9213.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那這個六年這個路徑一定要出來啦不然的話他不會到2030那一年就自動忽然數字就減半了這不可能所以呢我是很擔心因為看趨勢齁雖然只有兩年啦齁這個趨勢看起來就沒有下沒有應該邏輯上他應該是緩慢要一直下降但看起來這兩年並沒有這樣的趨勢所以本席必須要在這個執行台上來監督同時期盼 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9214.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9223.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
勞動部一定要對這個數字你們要具體的路徑要出來才不然他不會到了2031年忽然之間死亡人數就減半所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9224.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9246.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我知道就是說我們除了這些什麼勞檢啊取締這個之外其實我們應該建立起應該另外的思維有沒有可能什麼樣的方式可以我們更大的力氣跟這些營造廠商來合作透過怎麼樣的教育方式或者提醒方式或者什麼樣的機制讓他除了事後的取締 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9247.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9268.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
之外,當然這個也很重要嘛,因為有些人就是很懶惰,他就是每天都不做,當然你要把他嚴格處分這個本席沒有意見,對這種,但是還是有很多人他其實很願意配合,或許他方法不好,或許他不知道該怎麼做,那勞動部應該可以主動積極的把這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9269.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9293.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
想出一套方法所以壞學生有壞學生的處分方式好學生有好學生的方法所以你把好學生教得更好或許他們你這個數字就會逐年下降所以本期談的這個路徑其實是這個概念就是我們要有一些具體的做法因為我們沒有聯合國這個SDGs的時候我們還是這樣在做嘛但有了這個之後我們目標要把它減半 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9294.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9319.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那個方式路徑就要早早就要開始動,署長同意嗎?非常謝謝委員指教,我們的重點應該是,跨部會合作,公私協力,委員會不會只有做勞檢才會達到目標,我認為這是不可能的,所以整個是從上中下游,從源頭的設計到最後執行,到好的給鼓勵,不好的給你克制,整體上的循環。所以處罰是一塊啦,這個你不可能停嘛,也不應該停嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9320.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9332.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
但是你要另辟一個路徑你的那個死亡人數才可以下來好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝蔡吉昌委員發言完畢現在請張志文委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9343.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9350.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
主席好、各位官員、各位委員、大家早安。是不是有請我們工程會的主委。請吳主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9357.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9379.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
委員你好主委好今天本席非常榮幸有機會站在這邊來請教主委一些問題首先要給主委非常大的肯定因為主委過去在新北市也是過去臺北縣的時間擔任我們公務局的局長以及臺北縣的副縣長對於中和的這個過去水患的問題幫忙很大做了南山子分紅跟瓦窯溝分紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9381.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9382.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
中央政府總預算凍結案計7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9396.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9413.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
主委的部分那今天本席到這邊來特別是要來跟主委求援因為在0403大地震之後我們那個新北有一個非常重要的環狀線中和段現在在中和到板橋這一個區域現在是停時的一個部分那根據這個捷運局這邊的表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9416.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9439.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
要將近要一年的時間才能重新通車那造成這個很多的鄉親不能接受而且它是一個新蓋好的捷運所以我想要先請教主委的部分針對這個維修將近要一年的時間那這個工程會的部分有沒有一些掌握現在的情形跟進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9440.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9457.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
首先要謝謝張委員的支持跟指教,跟肯定,非常感謝。過去長期在臺北縣的服務,收到地方的支持,非常一併的感謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9460.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9472.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
有那樣的一個成果當然都是中央地方以及縣政府大家一起包括我們議員當時陳議員等等一起的努力的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9474.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9488.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
對於這個捷運的工程的狀況那麼我們準備在7號我會請我們的副主委邀請專家學者到現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9490.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9518.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
如果委員有空也歡迎一起來了解我們想去了解一下到底為什麼會發生這種狀況這裡面有兩個可能的因素一個雖然是都是地震造成但是呢那是不是已經達到這種設計的規模以上而損壞還是說他的設計施工有沒有哪裡的一個地方沒有注意到 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9519.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9535.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那麼這兩個狀況跟未來的修復會有不同的做法如果是說還沒有達到那麼而發生那應該要檢討怎麼樣來再導正補強也好不要讓它再發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9536.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9557.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
真的不好意思非常感謝主委的分享那簡單跟主委報告一下他主要就是分成兩個比較重要的這個問題那我從新聞上得知第一個就是屬於鋼樑錯位的一個部分第二個就是因為鋼樑錯位導致鐵軌有斷裂的情況那現在很多的這個不管是專家學者或者是我舉兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9558.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9585.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這個圖片先給主委看一下,舉兩個最近新聞上有報的一個是這個臺北市土木技師公會這個莊理事長有提到說用這個施工的方式以及新北市捷運局的旅局長都有提到說用千斤頂的方式把這個東西給復位那可不可以請這個主委稍微跟我們分享一下就這個捷運在施工或是後續復原的方式這個千斤頂扮演什麼樣的一個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9586.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9602.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我覺得要怎麼樣去復原回來,要看他造成的原因是怎麼樣,不是只有給他敲凍就好,如果是他原來的設計或施工有需要去導正的部分,那個部分必須先解決。 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9603.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9620.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
因為那個地方他是蠻高的一個狀況他必須要非常的注意安全的問題那麼趁著現在一個狀況發生一併檢討一下應該要從根本設計就要檢討施工檢討跟地震的發生是怎麼樣會這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9622.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9649.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
謝謝主委的分享那也感謝主委剛有提出來說工程會這邊也會到現場來協助我們這個捷運局的部分來處理那最後實踐的關係要請主委協助因為我這邊也有跟捷運局這邊來做聯繫他說這次因為造成的損害導致這個損失的經費蠻大的將近到12億的經費那地方這邊是有想要我來協助說是不是可以請工程會的部分來協助補貼一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9651.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9676.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
經費以免說讓這個東西修復可以快速一點或是說他們可能地方的經費會不足的有沒有主委有沒有辦法稍微協助一下經費的補貼特別跟委員說明一下當然天然災害有天然災害的這個我們的救助的一些包括地方的準備災害準備金不夠中央怎麼樣來協助這個有它的機制在但我剛剛講到如果檢討結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9678.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9694.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
他如果是跟原設計跟施工那麼有需要檢查的地方可能會有合約責任的問題那如果這個部分就依照合約的規定去處理如果不是的話是天然災害當然就有災害懲備金的處理的機制來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9696.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9717.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
好謝謝主委再次感謝您就是我認為中央地方一起協力努力把這些事情處理好讓所有我們這個不管是綜合板橋有需要用到環障結線綜合段這些鄉親可以盡早回復這個回歸正常的生活那今天再次感謝主委很榮幸在這邊跟您請議謝謝好謝謝我們會了解協助謝謝好謝謝張志文委員發言完畢現在請黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9737.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9738.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
謝主席麻煩有請主委請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9747.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9772.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
委員你好主委你好我從2020年還在立法院的時候就開始追蹤一個弊案這個是我們國防部空子部30億的福星營區竟然有承辦這個案件最高的負責人一位少將收受了超過2000萬元的回扣那這個案件目前一審已經重判了12年而涉案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9773.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9774.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
主委您了解嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9803.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9805.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我直接利用質詢的時間跟主委兼具 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9833.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9846.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
全職機關國防部就是沒有停權為什麼不停權?他認為他行賄的時間點是在政府採購法修正以前但問題是什麼?即使按照舊的政府採購法 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9847.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9863.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
第50條第1項第7款的規定其他影響採購公正違反法令的行為也構成解約的事由而事實上在之前政府採購法我們即使沒有按照新的因為新的政府採購法有明確的規範嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9864.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9889.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
你如果送錢的話就是要停權嗎?但是即使按照舊的政府採購法修正前的政府採購法最高行政法院100年判制1236號判決早就說了這個是一個依法可以停權的事由我覺得很奇怪我覺得我們的公務機關在執法的時候可以選擇性執法嗎?關係好的就不停權 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9891.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9896.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
關係不好的還記得最高行政法院100年度判製1236號判決這樣子適用法律的狀況 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9901.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9921.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
可不可以去了解當然我們可以了解可以嘛拜託公共工程委員會去了解第二件事情跟國防部也有關係的是我當初接到崔少仁的檢舉我也檢舉了說有不肖的廠商把國防部當成提款機什麼樣交成提款機兩頁的法律意見收費21萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9923.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9941.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
然後呢合報的工時100多個小時收快50萬實際的工時只有38個小時下面也是一模一樣我當初檢舉的內容最後進行調查全部都是真的即使在調查的過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9942.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9954.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那個不肖的廠商很囂張啊跑去原單位找人關說找人施壓連我也認識很多大哥我實在不想找他們我也查過你的底了連這種話都說得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9956.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9981.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
但崔少仁沒有在懼怕這種惡勢力我們也絕對不可能像這種惡勢力低頭整個案子查出來了當初的確是有福報國防部說要移送憲兵隊偵辦辦到哪裡去案子是不是被吃掉這個我會去追但跟公共工程委員會有關係的是什麼跟公共工程委員會有關係的是結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9982.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10008.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
把國防部當提款機的不肖廠商現在是你們採購申訴審議委員會的委員主委你會不會覺得這個太扯自己過去就是不肖廠商福報款項都抓包了抓包了以後那些不法所得都要吐出來結果你們工程會竟然把他聘為申訴審議委員會的委員主委可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10010.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10030.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
無法接受這是我第二個前舉的事情請主委回去處理主委我相信你的正直我也相信你的連結因為我從上一次還在國會的時候其實就認識你了希望你依法秉公辦理我絕對相信你是被蒙蔽的最後一個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10032.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10049.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我最近在追查特定的媒體人從我們政府取得大量的標案這個標案到底是怎麼拿到的我盤整了以後綠色的媒體人周玉蔻從我們各個政府機關國營事業最近5年取得政府標案1300萬1300萬就台電的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10055.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10081.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我開始追臺電的內容臺電你標案到底怎麼給的我在經濟委員會裡面有質詢我當初透過公共工程委員會希望把這一千三百萬的標案到底是怎麼給的在做什麼事情請他們標案的機關把相關的評審驗收報告全部都交來但問題來了大家都交只有高雄市政府不交 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10083.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10098.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我從發文所知道現在通過公共工程委員會3個月了都還是不交是不是可以請主委出面一下跟高雄市政府講公共工程委員會跟他調取的資料該給的還是要給不要遮掩我們再來溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10099.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10116.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
可以嗎?三個月囉今天我如果上個禮拜發文今天拿不到我今天就要是我不對我已經等了三個月了麻煩主委出面跟高雄市政府好好討論一下這是有什麼見不得人的事情這是有什麼好遮掩的 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10117.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10137.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
但我在過濾這些標案的過程當中真是讓我瞠目結舌我們的地方政府是怎麼樣在濫用這些媒體採購的標案在做個人的政治宣傳我舉一個具體的例子2018年放眼得標屏東縣政府網路行銷合作案 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10139.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10159.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
限制性招標他的名目是什麼?屏東縣政府網路行銷合作案那要行銷什麼?要行銷屏東縣政府嘛結果他行銷的不是屏東縣政府欸他行銷的是什麼?他行銷的是在選舉的時候用民調的政治攻防欸來我給主委看 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10161.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10182.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
放言那個時候拿這個標案出什麼新聞啊?屏東縣選情民調現任縣長潘孟安以41.6的支持度大幅領先對手。欸主委請教一下這是哪門子屏東縣政府的行銷啊?請問這到底在行銷什麼啊?可以這樣幹嗎?主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10188.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10192.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
請表示意見該處理要處理該送檢察院我希望公共工程委員會、主委維持您一貫 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10205.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10220.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
給台灣社會、給我心中、廉政的形象我知道很遺憾520以後你要離開這個位置了但是我希望我們在這個位置上一天就要把事情做好這種腐敗的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10221.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10222.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
主委同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10244.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10250.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
黃國昌委員發言完畢現在請顏寬恆委員發言顏寬恆委員顏寬恆委員不在現在請林俊憲委員發言謝主席本席邀請我們工程會的吳主委請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10270.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10288.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
委員你好吳主委你有看到這個新聞嗎就是我們國道3號的田寮還有中寮隧道有看到這個工程應該是2019年要完工結果他拖到2020年才完工結果後來有人檢舉他偷工檢料是2021年檢調就去開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10292.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10301.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
檢調去查以後這個新聞不知道當時有沒有受到大家的注意一直到前幾天就到我們今年2024年4月26號媒體才報導出檢調去查驗的相關結果這個發現有嚴重的透空檢調 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10309.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10331.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
你現在才知道這個新聞嗎?你注意看,檢調查的,第一個,它的那個鹽酸,你工程內行的你知道吧?就是它整體那個一罐酒的保溫,要咬住那個山壁,鹽酸裡面只有16支合格,合格率達62%啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10333.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10344.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
第二波的隨機選項,這是隨機抽樣,剪掉去找是亂抽的,抽出來,第二次有46.3%是不合格的,你現在知道這個事情嗎?我只看到這個報導才知道。好,再來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10351.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10377.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
後來再去查根據媒體的報導這這麼高的配合格率但是在現場的抽驗你知道我們現場都有監控也有計遊小組等等他那個抽驗結果欄寫的都是台灣世襲台灣世襲是監照現場有派一個監照主任監照的規範裡面都是填寫符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10379.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10407.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以我不知道他在建造什麼東西他不是一兩根不合格不合格率第一次抽驗有62%兩波的第二波有40幾%不合格率同時檢調也在台灣市區的辦公室裡面搜查這個研酸的相關記錄記載發現他這個工程這個工程的檢驗日期竟然是填寫在灌漿日期之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10409.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10412.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
你要知道嘛,你要貫穿下去之後,你不知道怎麼去檢查,啊不去貫穿就去檢查好了,你要作弊連日期都寫錯,請問公共工程委員會進入去了解這個事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10421.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10442.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我們馬上我們已經請同仁進一步去了解這一個我第一個壓抑的是這個高工局跟4C兩個部門是我們國內比較嚴謹的一個部門那為什麼還會發生這樣所以我們會詳細的了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10444.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10463.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們來瞭解為什麽這麽重大的工程挖隧道、空間、包括邊坡這算重大工程了吧這工程總經費追加以後大概快要10億那其中我們希望說像這樣的案子怎麽可能會發生我跟你一樣很訝異 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10465.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10488.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
大家要了解喔,不管是工程會,或者是中央各機關啊,像這個是交通部的工程啊,交通部跟工程會本身都有查核小組,也會有採購機核小組嘛,是不是這樣?都從頭到尾沒有發現這樣的弊端啊。採購機核小組你一看就知道啊,他買的那個材料根本就不合格的嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10489.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10512.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
也不管啦你最後在整個施工的過程都沒有人發現嘛那因為是重大工程啦所以其實他在施工的過程當中啊這些所謂的查核小組就要去看施工中的查核小組就要去看所以交通部自己本身就用查核小組他要去看查核小組啊他列舉了32項缺失啊有寫出來了那這32項缺失怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10517.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10536.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
他竟然處理就是交給交通部備查我認為這樣的規定必須要改你等於主管機關的查核小組查到的缺點要交回給主管機關自己備查你求遠見裁判他怕嚴不嚴他嚴就30天後缺失 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10542.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10549.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
然後這些缺失後續怎麼改善?有沒有人再去追查?沒有啊,他就交給交通部備查啦。所以喔,來,我們工程會啊,對於這樣的一種工程的潮流情形啊,我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10562.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10576.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
我們再來看看那工程會呢自己本身的查核呢其實工程會啊你的任務率有限啊我看你每一年的查核能量尤其最近5年啊例如從109年開始啦2018年你每一年大概都查核120件 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10579.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10599.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
是不是這樣?就所謂施工中啦那積查件數大概就驗收啦驗收你每一年驗收的那種茶碗大概都430幾件啦但是啊我們的重大工程分類我就覺得你這個分類急劇啊工程會是不是應該要再檢討一下因為你5000萬以上全部列為一類那那個量數太大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10600.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10611.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
本席建議應該要再評估把兩億元以上的重大工程採購案再把它特別區分成一個類別﹖或者是你要彈性調整查核、稽查的件數﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10613.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10628.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
否則的話你看我們現在一年兩億以上我特別去清查一下數量給主委參考我們現在每一年兩億以上的重大工程最近幾年可以說是大量的增加增加三十幾%2021年才不到300件2022年就420件去年達到430件另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10638.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10649.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
這個 從描述到這個工程從頭到尾在施工中都沒有被查爾小組抓到我是覺得非常意外第一個公共工程工程會的查爾小組也沒有去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10650.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10669.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
不曉得是沒有抽到還是怎麼樣,我不曉得啦。但是這個工程,工程會應該要去看為什麼?因為他已經不斷的展延供給啦。預算追加了30幾%啦。按照我們工程會查核小組的查核要點裡面,所謂的異常狀態,你大概就有這幾點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10670.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10685.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
就契約不斷變更像中亞隧道這個他這個就契約不斷變更他預算從7億多追加到9.8億追加了30幾%然後完工日期從2018年、2019年、2020年這標準的符合我們查二小組的異常狀態你們也沒有去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10694.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10721.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
照理講你特別列出這個第三優先查核因為我們查核小組的行事辦法21年都20幾年都沒有修改從2002年都沒有修改一直到2023年去年你再趕快把它修改你把它增加這個所謂第三優先就是我提的它整個完工啦整個施工過程有重大的異常你也可以把它列為稽查列為所謂優先查核隧道工程很重要吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10722.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10722.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
好﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10740.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10767.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
也就是說這是個重大但是已經出現異常的施工狀態竟然也沒有去查而且是個重大工程幾乎快到10億那同時最離譜的是這個偷工減料的工程竟然還得到公安獎勞動部你知道嗎勞動部這個也得獎那個研酸偷工減料啦工人在施工減的在玩命啊這樣我們得到公安獎你要不要拜託這個可以撤銷吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10772.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10797.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
發言委員我們回去再研究看看因為這是工程的安全那品質的部分不同的評估的方式啊這品質的有問題啊工人在一個很危險的狀態下施工一個人得公安獎啊你要回去研究是我們要回去再檢討謝謝委員好謝謝主委啊然後不你再回答再想一想再回答什麼東西好來主席謝謝啦抱歉好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10804.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10806.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
好,連續縣委員發言完畢,現在請油耗委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10837.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10837.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10851.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10868.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
委員你好主委你好今天的質詢再次也還是藉由這個機會也肯定主委胡志誠、胡主委對於公共工程委員會以及臺灣重大工程推動貢獻的一個肯定謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10869.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10887.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
所以今天在諮詢的過程中我也跟辦公室團隊跟幕僚討論雖然準備了許多的資料那在這裡的話就藉這個機會今天也不特別為難但是還是勉勵跟期許工程會在未來的話不僅是 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10888.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10905.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
包括在過去這個職災的部分重大工程的職災的部分其實我們在去年平均1.21日就有一名勞工還因為職業災害死亡還10萬人就有2.7人因為職災死亡還不如日本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10906.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10922.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
雖然不如日本的1.5人英國0.8跟黃潤河南的0.3所以我們重大職災死亡率其實是河南的9倍那在治安署日前公布2023年的統計人數那其實去年的重大職災是151人那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10926.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10943.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
之前的話其實營造業一直維持在150人到147蔡英文執政者2015年那營造業只在147所以這個的數據是維持在一個100多人的一個情況我們是荷蘭的9倍那也將近是日本的2倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10944.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
10966.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那所以也希望說在這個未來來講我們在重大的公共工程我們能夠在職災的這個部分我們要持續的看如何來做改良改進啊那能夠讓我們的工地或是建地營建的這些勞工朋友能夠更為安全那所以這個是第一個事情那第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
10967.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
10996.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
在印度的勞工可能要來這個開放來台現在都還在研究上次有跟主委有探討過那探討的過程中這時候其實在許多營建缺工的這個問題那希望工程會跟勞動部還能夠再做充分討論那當然說不能夠影響到本勞的就業權利跟包括的相關勞動條件但是也在這個缺工的問題以及說是不是適合讓他們進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
10997.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11021.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
就算進來了重大政策他們進來了能不能夠補充我國的這個營建的勞工缺工問題那我也希望在未來也能夠持續來去加強跟勞動部的探討那我在想謝謝吳承成吳主委對於工程界的貢獻那在這裡也肯定工程會謝謝那我就直接來問治安署署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11025.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11050.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
委員好部長好以前我們可能就或多或少有互動啦那因為我本身也是勞工背景出身的吳裕仁委員立委是我以前的老闆也是我的老師那等一下王宏威立委也會提到在今天我們記者會有提到一個重大的就是職業安全的事件在高鐵高鐵的內部有像 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11051.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11076.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
王宏威立委辦公室跟我們這邊有提到有檢舉就是在這個高鐵公安事件害人的真相在4月9號當天高鐵0621車次攔下列車進入漲化路段的時候全黑電力異常但是在裡面的時候在進行6個工班在做維護作業一般來講這個工班的維護啊他們其實都是在晚間夜間 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11077.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11106.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
但事實上他們就在白天的時候進行這個維護作業那那個時間也是不可能斷電的所以說導致這個公辦他有三次有可能因為因為他有接地的那個防護棒不然的話他就幾乎就會造成這個至少三次以上兩萬五千伏特的電擊那這個等一下王宏威委員也會再接著再質詢再問你那我要接著再問另外一件就是高鐵的列車場他不僅是他那時候有喝酒 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11107.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11134.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
另外一件在4月27的時候高鐵列車長他有喝酒但是喝酒之後在酒廁他酒廁的他這個幫酒廁的吊派員他就直接幫他代為酒廁就是直接他自己去催這個酒廁那讓這個高鐵的列車長其實有酒駕的這個情況那這個都會非常嚴重的影響這個職業安全的問題我想就交一下署長像這兩個事件您怎麼的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11135.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11163.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
委員提醒,這可能就是我們內部同仁為了安全的部分來勇於舉發,我們這是正面的齁,看起來就是這個公司的安全管理系統出了狀況,它內部的出的程序跟標準沒有做遵守,所以這部分應該是從內部來做集合,那我們這個案子我會請我們的中區財安中心還有會同台中市勞演署對這個彰化基地部分先做一區地域的了解,還有按照非常重要程序的製作,再來施作,另外是現場立即斷電來做,這是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11165.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11169.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我這一題我沒有問得很細因為王洪溫委員等一下會接著針對這個要來跟你討教那我是要直接跟你問一下那像 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11188.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11211.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
職安署的部分像這兩件事情尤其像後面他戴維酒測那個酒測也是零容忍但是他這個是因為他是一個這兩個事件他呈現的是國人的交通安全他呈現的是就是勞工朋友他在實施這種工廠他在維護的時候他的一個安全的一個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11212.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11236.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那所以說它這個部分它是有可能是造成死亡甚至造成這個許多就是在列車上的乘客的死亡所以我請這個治安署署長這個事情一定要慎重處理報告委員這個部分我還要再跟因為是鐵道局有關那個監管鐵路那個運輸安全的責任我們在跟鐵道局做進一步的橫向聯繫看看這個怎麼來讓高鐵公司針對工作者甚至是列車場那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11237.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11260.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
防護的按照9策不能更落實,感謝委員因為在這起事件那非常謝謝宏威委員那其實一直以來都有非常在追蹤跟把這件事情來做呈現那我在想說今天我剛才也沒有問主委這個部分那我是想說直接問指南署是因為其實像這樣子的一個事件不僅是表示這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11261.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11262.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
現在請羅志強委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11301.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11304.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
主席有請勞動部職安署署長周署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11312.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11332.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
委員好 署長好雖然今天報告主題是公共工程的重大職業災害但公共工程是整個職安保護的一部分根據職安署的統計數字我看到蔡英文總統上任前2015年的重大職災死亡勞工人數是321人營造業死亡是147人 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11336.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11356.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那2023年整體死亡人數是下降到300但營造業增加到151人平均每2.4天就有一位營造業的勞工死亡那相較於其他的產業營造業所發生的職災死亡事件更多那以111年 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11359 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11386.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
來說因為我看到你們的統計值我這邊得到的資料只有111年有接近一半的死亡人數就是來自營建業那總體來看111年因為職安事件而死亡的案例當中有一半是因為墜落而死亡那死亡在營建業比例始終居高不下那前三年平均有98名營造業勞工因墜落死亡那 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11387.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11407.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
但是如果去稽查,部長、署長你知道,發現違私的話,最高可以罰多少錢嗎?報告委員,我們現在是違反這個法令規定是,懲罰6條第一項是3到30萬。3到30萬嘛。那就是說根據你們的違反職業安全衛生法事件統一懲罰基準,通常要到第三次才會罰到30萬嘛,對不對?是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11410.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11432.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那第一次通常是3到6萬嘛,對不對?對,如果是重大事故就不會,就直接跳到會比較高額的處罰。我講通常啦。可是我就想要問一下,這就是我有點疑惑的地方,難道這個一條人命就是您所謂的3到6萬或是法到30萬,那目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11433.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11462.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
你們怎麼有沒有打算去調整的因為事實上我們知道就是說基本上勞工安全的後盾有部分是要靠我們的行政機關的這個強制力量那如果你要督促這個業者能夠去做好所謂的一些相關的安全工作的話有時候裁罰的強制力量其實也是一個很好的一個督促的一個機制但你看目前來看這個3到30萬元您覺得足夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11463.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11492.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
跟委員報告這治安法修法這個訂的3到30萬是在民國103年正式施行已經進了10年所以我們勞動部也在做內部檢討因為外界認為說我們3到30萬這個Range應該在做進步的改善或者增加比如說3到90萬之類的讓這個額度拉高但是對中小型微型的企業它本身程度可能也有限所以那個Range部分我們做內部討論那我們今年也有希望在做那個治安法修法的那個的進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11493.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11508.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
到時候再請委員跟我們多協助跟指教我覺得這個還是要希望你們就處理要做勞工的後盾那已經不合時宜的一個裁罰的一個基準其實就要與時俱進否則的話勞工就失去這個後盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11509.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11536.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
今年初職安署辦了一場所謂的春安勞檢營造業防墜落職災要今年定為營造業墜落打擊年那針對營建業部分的話那麼去年營造業工作場所重大職災死亡人數還是墜落災害佔整體營造業將近70%那我想請問你今年的目標是什麼那目前稽查量有提升嗎開發數量有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11538.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11557.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
報告委員我們的目標是用前三年的數據再做30%使用降30%為目的全國職業災害墜落大概是五成左右但是營造業的墜落災害是佔到七成所以我們認為針對現場的開口護欄沒有做但是當作我們集合的重點所以我們今年就整理說展開 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11558.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11577.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
另外就是檢查機構查完之後回報我們系統裡面還有報告部會裡面的工程查也做進行那這個詳細數字因為現在加入3月我們是不是容許我們在後期補給這個資料給委員參考麻煩後補過來其實整個我要講就是說因為真的我覺得政府就是我們勞工最重要的後盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11577.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11603.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那尤其是在這個你看到營造業的職安的問題實際上我發現這些年來並沒有下降那這一點就代表說我們政府責任在肩膀上還是很重所以希望我們勞動部我們職安署能夠勇於認識然後該改的法規該改的一些裁罰基準以及該加強的一些稽查可能都務必要努力全力以上謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11607.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11629.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
羅志強委員發言完畢．現在請侯孟楷委員發言好 主席謝謝我們也一樣先請那個勞動部治安署署長請周署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11637.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11650.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
委員好來署長我就延續剛羅委員的詢問確實本期也注意到其實營造業重大自災的死亡人數居高不下從2022年攀升到156人2023年到151人但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11655.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11657.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
已經訂說這個是所謂的墜落打擊年我們不要淪為口號 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11676.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11705.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
具體要怎麼樣做?因為有沒有瞭解說到底的原因是什麼?墜落,不過通常我們有講是說我們工這個職場我們的工程都應該要有綁這個什麼墜落繩那為什麼還會有這樣的狀況?我先有一個詢問齁營造工地我們現在發現民間工程營造工地是竹枕往上蓋的齁它其實我們不希望只是讓勞工備安全帶為主而是把開口跟護欄做好勞工不要勾安全帶才是我們的上策 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11705.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11706.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
是,你講到重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11730.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11749.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
執行面我們都有指引我相信以我們現在2024年中華民國政府不可能連這些指引都沒有那就是落實落實的問題現在營造業勞工有講一個是有工作才有錢第一年的一些失聯勞工失聯移工也有競爭所以他可能就會拼命 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11750.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11773.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我們你剛也講是說在這個工地裡面最重要是有沒有落實所以兩個部分嘛一個就是說我們要靠業者的一個良心落實那另外就是我們自己勞動部的這個營造業的勞檢員我們是不是能夠增加這個勞檢的比例讓他們知道是說我們是完真的我們希望他落實現在勞檢員的比例勞檢員有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11774.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11783.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
各位委員回報我們全國的勞動檢查員安全衛生部份大概是員額是665個人那勞動條件包括薪水薪資休假那個勞動條件檢查是3333人所以總共全國勞檢員是11033個員額但是我也跟委員承認因為我們勞檢員也有一定的流動率因為其實我們外面去做檢查也是蠻 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11796.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11824.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
不容易嘛,對不對?所以說,原額部分,謝謝委員提醒,我們也在做任務盤整,需不需要增加或是斟酌我們這個勞檢重點的改變,讓檢查有效,但是不是疲於奔命。是。那你現在,因為你自己定的目標是最弱打擊年,目標是要比2021年到2023年這三年的平均值還要減少三成。是,最弱的部分,是。是。那你具體的做法是什麼?老幫委員,這個,第一個就是,有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11825.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11843.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
你的原額、你的人數,如果沒有增加,我用花欸,掃三層,然後就燒香拜佛,看拜託今年大家墜落少一點。如果原額、金額、預算都沒有任何的增加,那你掃三層的底氣哪裡來? |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11844.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11870.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
包委員我們的預算會有增加因為我們也會透過我們的公共預算去做爭取但我們檢查會針對最弱範圍重點檢查但是我們認為不是純粹檢查才會降災我們透過目的世界主管機關甚至營造同業工會還有公立主任工會執行面的部分的落實他們能不能貫徹到現場來署長我先提出這樣的一個質詢是期待是說我們督促大家來做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11871.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11892.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
你會後那個預算增加以及相關的部分再請給本席辦公室資料那另外本席也提醒其實還有一個行業這當然今天討論的是各個公共工程但是我覺得這點出來我覺得我們一起來解決我真的是希望是解決有一個行業其實風險非常高而且我也聽很多業者講他真的是現在高齡、鷹架搭設 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11894.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11911.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
他也跟墜落很有相關就我們外面外牆那些鷹架有沒有竹架搭設外牆搭設而且他最辛苦的地方在什麼主猜對主猜沒有錯什麼時候要主要猜颱風來臨前 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11913.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11940.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
臺風來臨前突然間大量的需要人力要去收那些帆布那在那短時間兩三天的時間會變成是他們工作可能超過一天超過十幾個小時二十個小時為什麼因為大家都要搶著趕快把帆布捲起來不要影響那等到臺風過後再把那個帆布也降下來我們就本席的這個選區裡面就有這個鷹架搭設公司說半年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11942.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11970.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
兩個工人就摔下來摔斷腿那這樣的一個狀況我們能夠怎麼樣因為當然這不是公共工程可是對於這樣的一個行業我也問過業主他講說那你們沒有綁安全繩嗎還是他講是說現在這個行業基本上沒有年輕人要投入沒有年輕人要投入有的都是老班的那他也不敢用外勞也不能用移工也不能用移工也不能去搭 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11971.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12000.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
所以說他變成是一個明明有需求但是這樣的一個行業會變成是高風險的一個行業那也跟你今天提出來就是說我們今年如果說政令要講說這是墜落打擊年怎麼樣能夠來協助的這個部分是不是會後一併也我們一起來討論怎麼樣能夠加強這一塊安全的一個提升好不好謝謝好 謝謝洪孟楷委員發言完畢現在請王洪威委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12011.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12022.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
謝謝主席,我請我們公共工程會吳主委,還有勞動部周署長。主委好,還有署長。先來請你們聽一個音檔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12052.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12075.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
OK嗎?4月9號我們基地票表。4月9號我們基地票表這個事情。不斷要求停止。幾分鐘。4號的調查必中究全。叫我們兄弟們不要講這件事。好像這件事情沒有發生過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12083.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12084.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
公共工程委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12110.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12129.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
主委首長昨天是勞動節其實我想對於我們基層的勞工來說尤其在一些我們的這個工程這個前線的這些勞工來講其實他們可能每一天都擔負一定的風險那今天這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12131.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12145.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
這個影音檔這個音檔事實上是來自於高鐵他們在烏日基地的一個工班他們所面臨到的實際的狀況剛才油耗委員也有特別的提及 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12146.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12165.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
因為在4月9號的時候呢高鐵他們南下列車突然就是這整個列車就是突然停了5分鐘到8分鐘整個的跳電那他們沒有去說明原因但是事實上是當天他們維修有一個開關的維修他們必須其實應該一般來講SOP應該在晚上而且要把電力整個關閉可是他們沒有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12169.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12191.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
他們在白天就在做維修測試的時候這電流就通過可是另外一個一組工班6個人他們事實上在當地的現場他們在做維修還好這個工班他們是很重視SOP的因為他們要保護自己的生命安全所以他們都用接地棒會去驗驗了三次他們都很驚訝 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12193.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12219.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
發現應該要關閉電流的地方竟然他們還是開啟電流造成他們他們就說如果今天他們沒有按照SOP的話他們六個人就變成烤肉串好這件事情我早上我跟郵號委員我沒有召開記者會也感謝勞動部有派人到記者會裡面來聽這整個的狀況所以我就請一下署長在這個狀況現在你們也大致了解你們會做什麼樣的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12220.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12236.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
跟委員回報,因為謝謝委員提供這樣的訊息我們因為在彰化基地,因為我們會由我們中區職安中心會同台中市勞檢處先就這個案做了解,有沒有關我們職安法規,做後面的處置第二是看這公司的管理系統出了狀況,邏輯上就是應該夜間作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12237.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12242.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
對,那這個我到時候也會再繼續提供,我今天早上也特別,其實這也是內部所提供給我們,因為在4月9號發生囉,已經發生了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12259.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12264.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
他們一直遲到4月30號在他們的經營管理周會裡面他們的董事長才提及這件事情而提及這件事情為什麼呢因為他們發現他們的員工因為非常不滿意他們對這件事情呢事實上是非常草率的 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12279.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12280.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
所以他們事實上確實他們有去投訴他們投訴之後呢因為今天交通部沒有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12299.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12313.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
他們甚至去投訴主管機關但是最後也沒有任何的訊息所以才會投訴到我這邊來所以我覺得除了你們要了解SOP之外我也希望你們針對高鐵公司的經營層這個到時候我們也會用書面質詢今天交通部沒有來請交通部要了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12321.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12336.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
為什麼在經營管理周會裡面4月9號發生的事情他們到4月30號才提到這個事情而且是因為已經有很多的去爆料他們還說以後要小心一點避免同仁到外面去爆料 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12337.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12353.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
所以若不爆料他們就不處理這個事情所以我才希望說我們今天我們的勞動部我非常的肯定也感謝你們主動的介入調查要讓這些基層員工他們在前線的時候他們在第一線他認為他是安全的好不好可以謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12360.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12376.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
王宏威委員發言完畢現在請王美惠委員、王美惠委員、王美惠委員不在現在請李博義委員發言、李博義、李博義委員不在現在請鄭天才委員、鄭天才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12379.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12395.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
鄭天才委員不在。現在請邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員不在。現在請楊瓊英委員、楊瓊英委員、楊瓊英委員不在。現在請陳冠廷委員、 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12397.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12415.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員不在現在請蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在現在請鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員不在現在請羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員不在現在請邱若驊委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12430.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12432.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
謝謝主席 有請周署長請周署長委員好好 署長好我們首先現在看到在去年上一屆第7會期5月18號的時候未還委員會的降低公安事故提升職場安全之具體推動法案專案報告那這個專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12457.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12476.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
勞動部訂定為兩年期間之職場減災策略。那職場安全健康提升112年到113年,設定為兩年將重大的職災死亡人數降低10%為目標。那至今的執行狀況如何?請署長說明。我們113年是有降低但是沒有到10%,這個我們有再檢討。 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12478.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12489.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
沒有到10%,那你們掌握到的數字是多少?報告委員,我們113年死亡人數是300人,112年是300人,那111年是320人,那今年還有一年,我們想113年,希望能夠再回來控制。 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12499.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12524.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
OK好那今年4月27號的時候勞動部的許部長他也特別提出2030年臺灣職災減半的推動政策那以2030年重大職災死亡人數減半為推動目標那今年也訂了就是很多委員都有提到嘛這個營造最弱打擊年喊出的目標那麼多會給人家善於口號及宣傳而已那署長這邊要做平反嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12525.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12548.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
跟委員報告,一個機關、一個組織、一個政策要設定願景目標,要不然不定義不太的話,大家就不會集中活力來做這樣的進行。那我們2030年是配合國家的永續發展的階段目標,那我們勇敢訂的職災減辦、重要職災使用人士減辦,有很多人質疑我說我們只做口號,但是我們認為說政策支持我們後面的資源跟配套措施就會過來, |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12549.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12549.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
先為委員說這樣回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12575.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12593.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
昨天是五一勞動節,勞動部今年常喊安心職場還有安全勞動。至今安全工作環境是勞動朋友的期待還有願景。五一勞動節很多勞動朋友對政府喊的訴求,昨天也提出了很多訴求,那這邊我們治安署是不是要檢討? |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12594.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12594.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
委員會報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12610.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12636.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
受傷的勞工或是傷病的勞工我們可以整治跟重返職場的協助這個我們有在做比較好的展開了那整體預防的部分透過我們災保法的規定我們有20%的職災保險費率的挹注到我們預防和重建的工作我們也做這樣子的努力那另外就是有關整體上的安全部分我們也希望透過部會合作來展開因為就勞動部來做其實不太可能包括工程的部分我們工程的主要大宗 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12637.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12637.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
蘇貞銘也提到就是檢察機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12654.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12668.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
做檢查之後讓我回報那要如何確保這個檢查機構他每一項的檢查項目都有落實呢跟委員回報那我們的要求是檢察員檢查有缺失要做具體的回報檢查是好的也要回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12669.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12691.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
我們用照片或是後續後台的管控比如說這個檢察員到現場他如果只到一樓因為一樓檢查但是他有10層樓樓上要到10樓也做檢查這樣才知道他是檢查了有效性、完整性那當然這樣子會增加我們檢查員比較大的工作負擔但是我們為了追求最弱的防災因為最弱部分要到最弱的現場檢查才是嘛比如說電梯間、開口、施工架 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12692.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12693.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
報告委員我們是監督檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12712.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12736.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
現場缺失他的主要主責是雇主就事業單位我們可以苛責可以處分可以立即停工復工改善但是我們檢查機構的那個成績就看就是我們分項的一些降災的成效各檢查機構要做內部的檢討比如說臺北市新北市高雄市各種都市我們授權勞動檢查機構他們也追求這樣子預防墜落的次項目標是共同成就這樣子墜落打擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12737.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12737.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
主席吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12748.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12771.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
委員你好主委好那工程會還有勞動部都有書面報告都有提到那個公共工程重大職災死亡人數有逐年下降的趨勢那報告中也提到以零職災為目標那請看我們的簡報那近10年公共工程還有工作場所重大職災死亡人數的統計表那今年到4月14號統計是兩人那有沒有信心這個數字可以保持下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12772.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12788.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我們還希望往臨邁進往臨邁進,好那那個我們還有子安署我們國外國內外重大公安事故的訊息專區就只有4件重大事故那請問對重大事故的第一是 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12789.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12804.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
報告委員這是我們職安署的網站重新調整我們希望把國外的重大事故跟國外的重大事故可以做正面的學習那其他的事故會在我們職災地圖那個網站會有揭露但是這個是我們希望說從國外學習比如說我們正在做一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12805.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12805.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12822.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12837.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
希望不要有迷思,就是死亡才算數。傷殘對勞工的家庭也是一個巨大的變故。請問我們主委還有署長,04、03正後有對於我們國家的公共工程做一個盤點跟檢查嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12841.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12859.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
臨403之後對於相關的民間也好公共工程也好整個都已經盤點過現在都在進入到災害復原重建的階段OK好謝謝我們主委那謝謝國區主委的付出還有貢獻那本席這邊也給予最大祝福謝謝好謝謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12864.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12876.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
邱若驊委員發言完畢。現在請鍾嘉斌委員發言。鍾嘉斌委員。鍾嘉斌委員不在。 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12879.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12901.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
登記質詢委員均已發言完畢．做以下決定。報告及詢討完畢。委員廖先祥所提書面質詢列入紀錄並刊登公報。委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分,請工程會盡速以書面答覆。現在審查行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計7案,請醫事人員宣讀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12904.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12918.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
討論四項審查113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計7案以下依自其行政院公共工程委員會含簡訟決議一業務費預算凍結150萬元書面報告案簡訟決議二公共工程企劃及法規業務預算凍結700萬元書面報告案 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12925.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12929.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
簡訊決議三公共工程技術業務預算凍結300萬元書面報告案簡訊決議四公共工程管理業務預算凍結300萬元書面報告案 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12937.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12946.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
檢訟決議18公共工程計劃之審議與永續公共工程之推動預算凍結50萬元書面報告案檢訟決議19公共工程計劃執行之監督協調及考核預算凍結6萬元書面報告案檢訟決議20公共工程計劃執行之督導協調及考核預算凍結5萬元書面報告案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12965.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12972.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
以上7案請問各位委員有沒有意見?請您具現委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12981.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
12998.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
像昨天台南市的安南區又發生道路塌陷出現一個8公尺大的天空那前天新北市三重也發現了路面的天空那新北市政府到現在還沒有還沒有就是說為什麼查出原因了 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
12999.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
12999.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
來請說明趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13037.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13041.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
請主委盡速查明相關後續的作為並向林俊憲委員來快速的做報告及說明好那請問各位還有沒有意見沒有意見的話均同意動之提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13064.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13079.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
針對本日會議做以下決議．討論事項所列113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計7案均同意動之提報院會本日議程處理完畢上會 |