| IVOD_ID |
158642 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158642 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-02T12:18:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-02T12:28:27+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/186d177ad48e30e55ded9f9e11f8c9d71ad867d1dd5d1dbf6a11e77586d9faf35a549a2cf34375e35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:18:01 - 12:28:27 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-02T11:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，關於財政部主管臺灣土地銀行股份有限公司、財政部印刷廠、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司。（詢答及處理）
【預算提案截止時間：113年12月30日(一)下午5時】
【113年12月30日及114年1月2日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席 麻煩請財政部莊部長好 請莊部長委員好部長 剛剛大家一直提到的財政收支劃分法既有收 還要有支的部分那收的部分 除了垂直如何分配之外水平要如何分配那現在水平分配因為都沒有討論 那一天事實上是臨時 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
59.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
要表決前幾分鐘才拿出來的修正案那就通過了所以通過之後各地各縣市地方都引起非常大的反彈那是不是因為這樣所以現在有一些討論那我現在還要提醒你不是只有收的部分的垂直分配跟水平分配的問題支的部分全責如何劃分也完全沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
85.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那這個全責任何劃分喔也不是你財政部一個部可以決定的收的部分大概跟縣市政府談這些如何分配的公式你們之前有去做了兩三次基本上把那些公式的指標已經縮減到剩下二十幾項嘛那一部分當然是需要繼續進行那支的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
99.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
如何建立行政院也要召集地方政府跟中央政府大家一起來談如何來分配這樣子才有辦法完整的去調整整個財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
124.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以我覺得這個工作非常的艱鉅啊那應該不要停頓要趕快進行在資的部分應該趕快建議行政院也要召集各地方政府那當然收的部分水平分配的部分跟垂直分配的部分你們是有很重要的參與比例但資的部分恐怕要更高層級才有辦法處理你認不認同啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
139.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
委員說得很細第一個就是資的部分因為中央垂直分配的部分涉及到中央跟地方的市權的劃分你要有市權的劃分清楚才有資對不對錢是跟著市權走的所以這一次因為完全沒有討論到市權那市權又涉及到各部會的業務執掌去怎麼樣做明確的劃分所以這個部分院裡面會要統籌來做這個跟各部會來做討論我舉一個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
178.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
現在在討論那個說多少所得稅比例以下的老人他的健保費要由中央政府出還是地方政府出還是有沒有要統一這個如果大家能夠把事選談好是併在一起處理的不然的話現在他們真是在實質的剝奪行政機關的財政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
210.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為其實行政權主要兩大核心就是人事跟經費那他用一再的用法律案綁這一些費用的支出其實就是實質在剝奪你行政機關的權利這個我認為是違反憲法權利分立的原則我個人認為還蠻明確的啦那只是他不是用預算案他現在是用法律案的方式來綁這個以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
213.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
228.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
除非我們的憲法制度改變不然以後沒有人有辦法執政了他是把外國內閣制國會所有的權利拿到台灣要來用那台灣不是內閣制國家啊照理來講如果你合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
230.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
252.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
可以討論真的大家都想要走內閣制國家的話要從憲法的修正開始結果他不尋此道他要用他國衛多數的權力就去搶奪我跟你講這樣子是沒完沒了因為如果可以這樣的話那我以後等到執政黨 多數黨的時候我也可以去搶奪地方政府的財政我也可以去搶奪他的權力 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
254.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那整個台灣的這個憲政制度全部都亂了套這是我們最憂心的所以我覺得還是要去進行好 那我要另外請土銀的何董事長請何董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
274.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
剛剛的對話我有聽到但是你土地銀行作為一個過去被標榜為不動產融資的專業銀行這是你們土銀以前最大的定位 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
287.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好那現在央行因為他的政策所以做了一些限縮那對你們跟其他的銀行沒有差別待遇嗎目前主管機關對我們在土建融跟房貸他單獨另外有設定了一個限制的比率使得我們跟其他商業銀行的那個差別越來越小比較不再像完全 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
336.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以我覺得你應該也要把這個狀況反映出來啊當初土地銀行設立的目的是什麼那政策當然要推動大家是要一體比較合理但是你們也要有你們自己的空間啊不然不是說隨波逐流啊上面怎麼規定我就怎麼做那以後如果都不能帶的時候假設要政策再進一步限縮那你土地銀行平常沒有做其他業務的時候怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
是 那跟委員報告是說目前只要是政策性的我們都全部在配合我知道 所以我的意思說當這個政策下來的時候你們要以你們主體的立場跟他溝通可不可以有部分的差別待遇因為每一個營養設立的基礎不一樣啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
366.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你是以不動產的融資作為起身所以你才叫做土地銀行嘛那如果不動產投資你都不能做了那你還土地銀行幹嘛那土地銀行就改成商業銀行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
396.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我講的是這個意思我不是說你現在錯了我是說如果政策是這樣的時候你應該跟他溝通說應該要容許你有一部分的空間跟他們不一樣是 我們會跟金管會再來討論這個部分的空間不是啦 這個對你做這個限制的是央行嘛怎麼會是金管會沒有 對我們現在的限制是金管會他是配合央行的政策嘛對不對他已經限制了兩年了是好 那請回座喔是請那個菸酒公司的當董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
399.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
請湯董部長你可以先請回座啦謝謝委員好加熱菸的那個送了沒 送去省了沒各位委員報告我們113年1月就已經申請了7款那陸陸續續3、4次的這個資料補正我們在12月為什麼你們資料這麼差要補這麼多次你們送的資料一開始都沒有好好準備嗎是怎麼樣還是他們用這個理由在拖延 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
429.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
454.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
跟委員報告 事實上那個資料因為真的是國建署要的資料相當的細所以員工也來來回回修改了很多次啦那國建署一再講錯話就馬上就要過馬上就一年多了耶這個法律是112年通過的一年因為加熱菸不能夠合法已經漏掉 不要講你們公司的損失光稅就漏掉幾十億啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
457.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
471.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
另外就是說你有沒有預算說假設今年譬如說再過兩個月通過之後你加熱菸的這一方面的生產能夠對於你的這個公司可以創造怎麼樣的利潤空間有沒有準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
496.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
公務員報告 從112年這個煙害防治法展開以後到上個月 煙酒公司已經下滑了45%的香煙所以未來如果兩個月這個加熱煙如果能通過我們的豐原煙廠應該兩到三個月就可以馬上量產可以把過去損失的這個下滑的營業額應該可以補回一半以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那這樣子你有沒有心裡有沒有一個打算這樣大概可以補多少回來應該四五十億跑不掉是啊所以你剛剛大家在問你說為什麼你的業績一直下滑的時候你這部分也應該要出來跟他們說明事實上現在市面上吸加熱菸的人比例越來越高啊因為加熱菸沒有泥骨丁嘛沒有焦油嘛只有泥骨丁嘛所以對健康也比較好對於不吸菸的人也比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
527.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
538.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那這個邏輯很奇怪啊 止煙捲煙都在准結果加熱煙到現在要省這麼久他怎麼不把止煙再拿回去省省看啊如果照他的標準這樣止煙會過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
541.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
563.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
齁 我跟你說因為加熱菸比較沒有二手菸的問題我看到很多人 那我是不抽菸啦很多人 連我們的同仁很多都在抽 都在抽加熱菸雖然沒有過 大家都在抽啦啊就是眼睛蒙住不趕快去進行我要請莊部長再上台一下莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
566.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
595.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
部長這個事情我在這邊質詢已經問過好多次了我請你要跟國健署要跟衛福部講有我們都有去跟他做說明你有沒有一年這樣漏掉多少稅跟他講跟行政院講然後這個東西要審這麼久到底要審多久啊法律通過一年多了今年不是剛通過三個月五個月本來講說一開始的時候問他說你這個要審多久可以過說大概半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
596.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
616.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
過去多久了已經過去14個月15個月了拜託你就理論上面就你的稅的角度來講就你的研究工資來講你都應該大聲疾呼啦都應該跟外部講說你這樣子太離譜了加油好不好謝謝謝謝吳秉瑞委員接著我們請黃珊珊委員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2025-01-02T12:18:04.325000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2025-01-02T12:18:04.745000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席，麻煩請財政部莊部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2025-01-02T12:18:04.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2025-01-02T12:18:04.865000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請莊部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2025-01-02T12:18:04.865000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2025-01-02T12:18:04.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2025-01-02T12:18:04.905000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2025-01-02T12:18:06.606000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
部長，剛剛大家一直提到的財政收支劃分法，既有收，還要有支的部分，那收的部分除了垂直如何分配之外，水平要如何分配？ |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2025-01-02T12:18:06.646000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2025-01-02T12:18:49.065000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
現在水平分配因為都沒有討論，那一天事實上是臨時要表決前幾分鐘才拿出來的修正案，那就通過了，所以通過之後，各縣市、地方都引起非常大的反彈，是不是因為這樣，所以現在有一些討論。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2025-01-02T12:18:49.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2025-01-02T12:19:24.864000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
我現在還要提醒你，不是只有收的部分的垂直分配跟水平分配的問題，支的部分權責如何劃分也完全沒有，那這個權責如何劃分也不是你財政部一個部可以決定的；收的部分大概跟縣市政府談這些如何分配的公式，你們之前有去做了兩、三次，基本上把那些公式的指標已經縮減到剩下二十幾項，那部分當然是需要繼續進行。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2025-01-02T12:19:25.745000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2025-01-02T12:19:28.635000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
那支的部分如何建立？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2025-01-02T12:19:28.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2025-01-02T12:19:40.705000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
行政院也要召集地方政府跟中央政府一起來談如何分配，這樣子才有辦法完整的去調整整個財政收支劃分法。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2025-01-02T12:19:42.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2025-01-02T12:20:04.115000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
所以我覺得這個工作非常的艱鉅，應該不要停頓，要趕快進行，在支的部分應該趕快建議行政院也要召集各地方政府，當然收的部分、水平分配的部分跟垂直分配的部分，你們是有很重要的參與比例，但支的部分恐怕要更高層級才有辦法處理。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.98 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2025-01-02T12:20:04.515000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2025-01-02T12:20:05.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
你認不認同？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2025-01-02T12:20:06.196000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2025-01-02T12:20:20.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
委員說的很是，第一個就是支的部分，因為中央垂直分配的部分涉及到中央跟地方的事權劃分，要把事權劃分清楚才有支，錢是跟著事權走的，所以這一次因為完全沒有討論到事權，那事權又涉及到各部會的業務執掌怎麼樣做明確的劃分，所以這個部分院裡面會統籌跟各部會來做討論。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.915 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2025-01-02T12:20:20.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2025-01-02T12:21:25.830000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
我舉一個例子，現在在討論多少所得稅比例以下的老人的健保費要由中央政府出還是地方政府出，還是有沒有要統一，這個如果大家能夠把事權談好，是併在一起處理的，不然的話，現在他們正是在實質的剝奪行政機關的財政權，因為其實行政權最主要兩大核心就是人事跟經費，那他一再的用法律案綁這些費用的支出，其實就是實質在剝奪行政機關的權力，這個我認為是違反憲法權力分立的原則，我個人認為還蠻明確的。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2025-01-02T12:21:26.850000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2025-01-02T12:22:23.255000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
只是他不是用預算案，他現在是用法律案的方式來綁，這個以後除非我們的憲法制度改變，不然以後沒有人有辦法執政，他是把外國內閣制國會所有的權力拿到臺灣要來用，可是臺灣不是內閣制國家啊，照理來講如果合理可以討論，真的大家都想要走內閣制國家的話，要從憲法的修正開始，結果他不循此道，他要用國會多數的權力就去搶奪，我跟你講這樣只是沒完沒了，因為如果可以這樣的話，那以後等到執政黨多數黨的時候，我也可以去搶奪地方政府的財政，我也可以去搶奪他的權力，那整個臺灣的憲政制度全部都亂了套，這是我們最憂心的，所以我覺得還是要去進行。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.975 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2025-01-02T12:22:23.255000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2025-01-02T12:22:25.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
我們也不樂見這樣子。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2025-01-02T12:22:25.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2025-01-02T12:22:27.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
另外，我要請教土銀何董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2025-01-02T12:22:27.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2025-01-02T12:22:27.842000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
請何董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2025-01-02T12:22:35.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2025-01-02T12:22:46.757000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
剛剛的對話，我有聽到，但是你土地銀行作為一個過去被標榜為不動產融資的專業銀行，這是不是你們土銀以前最大的定位？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.961 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2025-01-02T12:22:48.588000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2025-01-02T12:22:57.875000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
現在因為央行的政策，所以做了一些限縮，對你們跟其他的銀行沒有差別待遇嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.939 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2025-01-02T12:22:57.875000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2025-01-02T12:22:58.875000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
有沒有差別？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
何董事長英明 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2025-01-02T12:22:57.875000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2025-01-02T12:23:10.664000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
目前主管機關對我們在土建融及房貸是單獨另外有設定了一個限制的比率，使得我們跟其他商業銀行的差別越來越小，比較不再像完全不動產專業銀行。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.859 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2025-01-02T12:23:11.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2025-01-02T12:23:18.806000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
所以我覺得你應該也要把這個狀況反映出來啊，當初土地銀行設立的目的是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2025-01-02T12:23:19.927000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2025-01-02T12:23:37.070000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
政策當然要推動，大家是要一體比較合理，但是你們也要有你們自己的空間，不然就隨波逐流，上面怎麼規定就怎麼做，那以後如果都不能貸的時候，假設政策再進一步限縮，那你土地銀行平常沒有做其他業務的時候怎麼辦？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
何董事長英明 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2025-01-02T12:23:38.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2025-01-02T12:23:45.178000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
是，跟委員報告，目前只要是政策性的，我們都全部在配合。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2025-01-02T12:23:45.418000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:02.429000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
我知道，所以我的意思是，當這個政策下來的時候，你們要以你們主體的立場去溝通可不可以有部分的差別待遇，因為每一個銀行設立的基礎不一樣啊，你是以不動產融資作為起身，所以你才叫做土地銀行嘛！是。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.942 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:03.510000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:06.291000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
那如果不動產的投資你都不能做了，那你們土地銀行還要幹嘛？ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:07.032000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:07.952000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
土地銀行就改成商業銀行啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:10.315000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:20.660000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我講的是這個意思，我不是說你現在錯了，我是說如果政策是這樣的時候，你應該跟他溝通要容許你有一部分的空間，跟他們不一樣。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
何董事長英明 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:20.660000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:23.661000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
是，我們會跟金管會再來討論這個部分的空間。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:23.661000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:26.882000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
不是啦，對你做這個限制的是央行嘛，怎麼會是金管會？ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
何董事長英明 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:26.882000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:29.663000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
沒有，對我們現在的限制是金管會。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:29.904000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:31.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
它是配合央行的政策嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
何董事長英明 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:31.484000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:32.405000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
已經限制了兩年。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:33.265000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:34.366000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
好，請回座。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:35.386000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:37.167000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
繼續請菸酒公司湯董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.727 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:40.540000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:42.681000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
請湯董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
湯董事長期安 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:45.702000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:45.942000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:46.722000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:49.003000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
加熱菸送去審了沒？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
湯董事長期安 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:50.863000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2025-01-02T12:24:58.606000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
跟委員報告，我們113年1月就已經申請了7款，陸陸續續三、四次的資料補正，我們在12月…… |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.906 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2025-01-02T12:24:58.766000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2025-01-02T12:25:00.987000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
為什麼你們的資料這麼差，要補這麼多次？ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2025-01-02T12:25:01.227000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2025-01-02T12:25:05.588000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
你們送資料一開始都沒有好好準備嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2025-01-02T12:25:05.588000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2025-01-02T12:25:06.708000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
是怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2025-01-02T12:25:06.708000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2025-01-02T12:25:07.889000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
還是他們用這個理由在拖延？ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
湯董事長期安 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2025-01-02T12:25:10.395000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2025-01-02T12:25:19.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
跟委員報告，事實上，因為國健署要的資料真的相當細，所以員工來來回回修改了很多次。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2025-01-02T12:25:20.342000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2025-01-02T12:25:23.484000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
國健署一再講馬上要過、馬上要過，這馬上就一年多了？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.727 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2025-01-02T12:25:24.744000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2025-01-02T12:25:35.932000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
這個法律是112年通過的，一年因為加熱菸不能夠合法，不要講你們公司的損失，光稅就漏掉幾十億啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2025-01-02T12:25:38.522000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2025-01-02T12:25:52.157000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
另外，假設今年譬如再過兩個月通過之後，加熱菸這一方面的生產對於你的公司可以創造什麼樣的利潤空間？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2025-01-02T12:25:52.157000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2025-01-02T12:25:52.638000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
這部分有沒有準備？ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.625 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
湯董事長期安 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2025-01-02T12:25:54.679000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2025-01-02T12:26:17.808000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
跟委員報告，從112年菸害防制法展開後到上個月，菸酒公司已經下滑了45%的香菸，所以未來兩個月加熱菸如果能通過，我們的豐原菸廠應該兩到三個月就可以馬上量產，可以把過去損失下滑的營業額應該可以補回一半以上。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.912 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2025-01-02T12:26:18.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2025-01-02T12:26:24.172000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
那這樣子你心裡有沒有打算大概可以補多少回來？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
湯董事長期安 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2025-01-02T12:26:24.172000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2025-01-02T12:26:26.253000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
應該四、五十億跑不掉。是啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2025-01-02T12:26:26.793000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2025-01-02T12:26:32.737000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
所以剛剛大家在問你為什麼業績一直下滑，這一部分你也應該講出來跟他們說明啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.886 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2025-01-02T12:26:32.957000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2025-01-02T12:26:59.713000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
事實上現在市面上吸加熱菸的人比例越來越高，因為加熱菸沒有焦油，只有尼古丁，所以對健康也比較好，對於不吸菸的人也比較好，那這個邏輯很奇怪，紙菸、捲菸都准，結果加熱菸到現在要審這麼久，怎麼不把紙菸再拿回去審查看看，如果照他的標準這樣紙菸會過嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2025-01-02T12:27:02.432000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2025-01-02T12:27:19.699000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
我跟你說，因為加熱菸比較沒有二手菸的問題，我是不抽菸，我看到很多人，連我們很多的同仁都在抽加熱菸，雖然沒有過，大家都在抽，就是眼睛矇住不趕快去進行。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2025-01-02T12:27:20.159000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2025-01-02T12:27:33.757000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
我要再請教莊部長，部長，這個事情我在這邊質詢已經問過好多次了，我請你要跟國健署、衛福部講。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2025-01-02T12:27:33.757000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2025-01-02T12:27:35.858000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
有，我們都有去做說明。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2025-01-02T12:27:36.298000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2025-01-02T12:27:39.100000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
你有沒有就一年會漏掉多少稅跟他們講？ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.824 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2025-01-02T12:27:39.100000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2025-01-02T12:27:45.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
跟行政院講，然後這個東西要審這麼久，到底還要審多久啊？ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2025-01-02T12:27:46.304000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2025-01-02T12:27:58.144000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
法律都通過一年多了，不是剛通過三個月、五個月，本來一開始的時候問他這個要審多久可以過，他說大概半年，現在過去多久了？ |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2025-01-02T12:27:59.344000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2025-01-02T12:28:15.756000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
已經過去14、15個月了，拜託你，就理論上面，就稅的角度來講，就菸酒公司來講，你都應該大聲疾呼，都應該跟衛福部講這樣子太離譜了，加油好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2025-01-02T12:28:15.936000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2025-01-02T12:28:15.936000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
好，謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2025-01-02T12:28:15.936000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2025-01-02T12:28:16.116000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
謝謝吳秉叡委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2025-01-02T12:28:16.116000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2025-01-02T12:28:17.617000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
接著請黃珊珊委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
1 |