| IVOD_ID |
158642 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158642 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-02T12:18:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-02T12:28:27+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/186d177ad48e30e55ded9f9e11f8c9d71ad867d1dd5d1dbf6a11e77586d9faf35a549a2cf34375e35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:18:01 - 12:28:27 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-02T11:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，關於財政部主管臺灣土地銀行股份有限公司、財政部印刷廠、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司。（詢答及處理）
【預算提案截止時間：113年12月30日(一)下午5時】
【113年12月30日及114年1月2日二天一次會】） |
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主席 麻煩請財政部莊部長好 請莊部長委員好部長 剛剛大家一直提到的財政收支劃分法既有收 還要有支的部分那收的部分 除了垂直如何分配之外水平要如何分配那現在水平分配因為都沒有討論 那一天事實上是臨時 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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要表決前幾分鐘才拿出來的修正案那就通過了所以通過之後各地各縣市地方都引起非常大的反彈那是不是因為這樣所以現在有一些討論那我現在還要提醒你不是只有收的部分的垂直分配跟水平分配的問題支的部分全責如何劃分也完全沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.728 |
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那這個全責任何劃分喔也不是你財政部一個部可以決定的收的部分大概跟縣市政府談這些如何分配的公式你們之前有去做了兩三次基本上把那些公式的指標已經縮減到剩下二十幾項嘛那一部分當然是需要繼續進行那支的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.974 |
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99.725 |
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如何建立行政院也要召集地方政府跟中央政府大家一起來談如何來分配這樣子才有辦法完整的去調整整個財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
124.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以我覺得這個工作非常的艱鉅啊那應該不要停頓要趕快進行在資的部分應該趕快建議行政院也要召集各地方政府那當然收的部分水平分配的部分跟垂直分配的部分你們是有很重要的參與比例但資的部分恐怕要更高層級才有辦法處理你認不認同啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.196 |
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139.859 |
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委員說得很細第一個就是資的部分因為中央垂直分配的部分涉及到中央跟地方的市權的劃分你要有市權的劃分清楚才有資對不對錢是跟著市權走的所以這一次因為完全沒有討論到市權那市權又涉及到各部會的業務執掌去怎麼樣做明確的劃分所以這個部分院裡面會要統籌來做這個跟各部會來做討論我舉一個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
178.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
現在在討論那個說多少所得稅比例以下的老人他的健保費要由中央政府出還是地方政府出還是有沒有要統一這個如果大家能夠把事選談好是併在一起處理的不然的話現在他們真是在實質的剝奪行政機關的財政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
210.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為其實行政權主要兩大核心就是人事跟經費那他用一再的用法律案綁這一些費用的支出其實就是實質在剝奪你行政機關的權利這個我認為是違反憲法權利分立的原則我個人認為還蠻明確的啦那只是他不是用預算案他現在是用法律案的方式來綁這個以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
213.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
228.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
除非我們的憲法制度改變不然以後沒有人有辦法執政了他是把外國內閣制國會所有的權利拿到台灣要來用那台灣不是內閣制國家啊照理來講如果你合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
230.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
252.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
可以討論真的大家都想要走內閣制國家的話要從憲法的修正開始結果他不尋此道他要用他國衛多數的權力就去搶奪我跟你講這樣子是沒完沒了因為如果可以這樣的話那我以後等到執政黨 多數黨的時候我也可以去搶奪地方政府的財政我也可以去搶奪他的權力 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
254.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那整個台灣的這個憲政制度全部都亂了套這是我們最憂心的所以我覺得還是要去進行好 那我要另外請土銀的何董事長請何董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
274.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
剛剛的對話我有聽到但是你土地銀行作為一個過去被標榜為不動產融資的專業銀行這是你們土銀以前最大的定位 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
287.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好那現在央行因為他的政策所以做了一些限縮那對你們跟其他的銀行沒有差別待遇嗎目前主管機關對我們在土建融跟房貸他單獨另外有設定了一個限制的比率使得我們跟其他商業銀行的那個差別越來越小比較不再像完全 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
336.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以我覺得你應該也要把這個狀況反映出來啊當初土地銀行設立的目的是什麼那政策當然要推動大家是要一體比較合理但是你們也要有你們自己的空間啊不然不是說隨波逐流啊上面怎麼規定我就怎麼做那以後如果都不能帶的時候假設要政策再進一步限縮那你土地銀行平常沒有做其他業務的時候怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
是 那跟委員報告是說目前只要是政策性的我們都全部在配合我知道 所以我的意思說當這個政策下來的時候你們要以你們主體的立場跟他溝通可不可以有部分的差別待遇因為每一個營養設立的基礎不一樣啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
366.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你是以不動產的融資作為起身所以你才叫做土地銀行嘛那如果不動產投資你都不能做了那你還土地銀行幹嘛那土地銀行就改成商業銀行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
396.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我講的是這個意思我不是說你現在錯了我是說如果政策是這樣的時候你應該跟他溝通說應該要容許你有一部分的空間跟他們不一樣是 我們會跟金管會再來討論這個部分的空間不是啦 這個對你做這個限制的是央行嘛怎麼會是金管會沒有 對我們現在的限制是金管會他是配合央行的政策嘛對不對他已經限制了兩年了是好 那請回座喔是請那個菸酒公司的當董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
399.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
請湯董部長你可以先請回座啦謝謝委員好加熱菸的那個送了沒 送去省了沒各位委員報告我們113年1月就已經申請了7款那陸陸續續3、4次的這個資料補正我們在12月為什麼你們資料這麼差要補這麼多次你們送的資料一開始都沒有好好準備嗎是怎麼樣還是他們用這個理由在拖延 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
429.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
454.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
跟委員報告 事實上那個資料因為真的是國建署要的資料相當的細所以員工也來來回回修改了很多次啦那國建署一再講錯話就馬上就要過馬上就一年多了耶這個法律是112年通過的一年因為加熱菸不能夠合法已經漏掉 不要講你們公司的損失光稅就漏掉幾十億啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
457.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
471.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
另外就是說你有沒有預算說假設今年譬如說再過兩個月通過之後你加熱菸的這一方面的生產能夠對於你的這個公司可以創造怎麼樣的利潤空間有沒有準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
496.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
公務員報告 從112年這個煙害防治法展開以後到上個月 煙酒公司已經下滑了45%的香煙所以未來如果兩個月這個加熱煙如果能通過我們的豐原煙廠應該兩到三個月就可以馬上量產可以把過去損失的這個下滑的營業額應該可以補回一半以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那這樣子你有沒有心裡有沒有一個打算這樣大概可以補多少回來應該四五十億跑不掉是啊所以你剛剛大家在問你說為什麼你的業績一直下滑的時候你這部分也應該要出來跟他們說明事實上現在市面上吸加熱菸的人比例越來越高啊因為加熱菸沒有泥骨丁嘛沒有焦油嘛只有泥骨丁嘛所以對健康也比較好對於不吸菸的人也比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
527.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
538.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那這個邏輯很奇怪啊 止煙捲煙都在准結果加熱煙到現在要省這麼久他怎麼不把止煙再拿回去省省看啊如果照他的標準這樣止煙會過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
541.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
563.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
齁 我跟你說因為加熱菸比較沒有二手菸的問題我看到很多人 那我是不抽菸啦很多人 連我們的同仁很多都在抽 都在抽加熱菸雖然沒有過 大家都在抽啦啊就是眼睛蒙住不趕快去進行我要請莊部長再上台一下莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
566.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
595.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
部長這個事情我在這邊質詢已經問過好多次了我請你要跟國健署要跟衛福部講有我們都有去跟他做說明你有沒有一年這樣漏掉多少稅跟他講跟行政院講然後這個東西要審這麼久到底要審多久啊法律通過一年多了今年不是剛通過三個月五個月本來講說一開始的時候問他說你這個要審多久可以過說大概半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
596.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
616.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
過去多久了已經過去14個月15個月了拜託你就理論上面就你的稅的角度來講就你的研究工資來講你都應該大聲疾呼啦都應該跟外部講說你這樣子太離譜了加油好不好謝謝謝謝吳秉瑞委員接著我們請黃珊珊委員 |