| IVOD_ID |
158615 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158615 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-02T10:23:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-02T10:42:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/186d177ad48e30e5f23c92ae51bdd2a1c921d2cbf1168e408d75bdfb612c74e005dc707a53e8c9f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:23:54 - 10:42:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：請勞動部、衛生福利部、教育部就「推動友善職場、校園性騷擾與霸凌防治及長照悲歌並檢討現行長照制度缺失與長照3.0規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
8.682 |
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好,謝謝主席,我以為我要再等一下我以為換你質詢了,請坐好,我們請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
22.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
43.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長好我看今天召委排案特別要求教育部跟台大醫師跟台大來你們就應該知道我們今天要問什麼剛剛也好幾位委員也在問這件事情所以關於台大西教授的這個性騷事件您之前的回答我還聽不太懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那過了兩週那我們衛福部跟教育部應該已經掌握了吧應該有部長你掌握了多少我想這個部分今天早上已經談了我們從工作場他的工作領域開始調查那台大醫院整個過程我們從剛剛院長跟台大校方的報告是一直持續在做那那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
89.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們就是有性平三法我們會按照這三法來照顧我們做我們應該做的事情這個是去年那個我們113年3月4號賴清德總統公布的這個健康促進委員會的名單這個西教授有沒有在裡面我看一下名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
至少真正開會的時候是沒有的真正開會的時候沒有?你確定沒有嗎?確定沒有,因為我都有參與我知道他被踢炮性騷之後,去年8月15號已經被委員會除名了那9月台大校方還沒有懲處前就申請離職這一系列的操作你不覺得很剛好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
123.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
149.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
據剛剛台大醫院跟台灣大學的部分都有按照程序在進行那他從九月台大離職這個醫師當然有他他現在離職了嘛對不對他九月離職之後又十一月就跑到總統府執政開的台中茂盛醫院板橋院去擔任這個生殖醫學的總監是吧報告委員目前衛福部查此人並沒有沒有指燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
151.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
173.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以表示他現在沒有在執行完全沒有嗎沒有那你覺得他是他未來還有機會當醫生嗎還有資格當嗎那就要送到由地方衛生局送懲戒委員會然後懲戒委員會的建議會如果比較重大會送到我們衛護部來做判決所以這個要經過醫生懲戒委員會來處理嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
176.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
195.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
是在地方還是怎麼樣先送到當地的衛生局根據醫師法第25條規定要判刑確定才有依據召開懲戒委員會的會議那如果委員會決議要廢止醫師證書誰可以決定要不要廢止是我們衛福部嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
196.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
215.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
像這個比較重大這個比較重大必須要送到衛福部所以他們決定說應該要廢除的時候才送到這邊來那您這邊來決定他還要不要還是您會尊重地方開的這個建議我們尊重這個審議委員可以說都是德高望重 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
215.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
231.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那老實講那個委員也是都是長久以來,也不是我們能去隨便跟他修改的啦所以我想他們一定會根據過去的經驗法律他們從他們的倫理,一些倫理方面來做一個很周全的一個判定 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
232.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
253.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為我們擔心的是什麼,現在學校懲處的結果還沒有結果,也要等判刑確定,那這邊一定會有一個空窗期我們能確保這個西教授,萬一他在別的地方職業怎麼辦我們怎麼保障,假如他職業的話,我們怎麼保障患者跟其他醫護不被騷擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們有做追蹤還是怎麼樣嗎我想我們衛福部的立場是宣導一個性瓶性燒怎麼防治我要講這個我知道部長我知道那至於說那個我們如果他到哪個地方去職場我們會都請當地的衛生局 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那去加強那個督導那我稍微分清楚一下因為他是他不是跟業務上去併人他是那個對啦我說有這樣的有發生這種案件我希望衛福部主動要追蹤啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
當然當然另外我剛才講到這些就是說我發現我們舉個幾個例子來給你看就剛剛我們陳金輝委員有提到我們台大骨科我們的王姓主任110年這個也依照這個強制猥褻罪判刑8個月那部長您知道他現在在哪裡嗎我不清楚他是在哪裡他還在台大骨科是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
361.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那個台大骨科對啊我就覺得這個很奇怪啊然後112年喔台大醫院正性腹癌權威教授那疑似下藥迷昏藥廠的女性業務員那當然啦後來這個我們的性騷擾防治委員會說性騷擾不成立不過這件事情在去年113年檢方4月又開始介入調查了部長知道這事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
365.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我知道有這件事情,然後呢?你說事業就又開始...對啊,他又介入調查了嘛,所以你們有針對這樣的事情去注重嗎?可能有虛失證或者怎麼樣又檢方嘛,又檢方又去調查嘛對啊那我相信台大醫院應該都會密切注意到整個過程嘛還有我們新的長輩 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
415.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
417.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以他還在台大骨科嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
431.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
447.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
還有我再講新竹也有我們基性小兒科心臟科醫師也替女童檢查心臟的時候涉嫌在兒童超音波室手持超音波探頭用手指抓取觸碰他的乳房 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
448.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
464.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那被判刑七個月那現在還沒有看診我想講這些案子給你們大概參考一下還有一個就是精神科名醫我們孔繁錦 涉嫌在我們診所內性侵女病患這件事情那當然他也被判了四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
495.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我講的這些案子我剛剛還是回到我們陳金輝委員剛剛也有建議到說我們部長自己有提到說是不是要建置一個網路平台公布這些有這些塑形不良的醫生的一個訊息讓我們的患者還有我們的醫護人員能多一分警覺那這個東西當然也會讓所有的醫生有所顧忌因為這個東西一旦登上去之後對他來講對他本身來講也是影響非常大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
496.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
511.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我覺得這個是一個手段不是我們的目的我們也是希望有透過這樣的手段讓我們這些醫師就是能夠自己去克制自己去約束自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
513.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
536.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
是,我們在上一屆大家努力之下通過憲憑三法那當然就是希望營造一個大家很互相尊重不會有像發生這種事情,不好的事情的一個環境部長可以承諾嗎?這個部分,您會做這件事嗎?做,我們一定會研議研議嘛,那這個要多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
539.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
555.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個因為牽涉到整個體系的問題不是說我們衛福部喊要公佈就公佈我知道啦,那當然我希望快一點好不好我們會把演繹的過程跟委員報告三個月可以嗎?沒問題,演繹的狀況會跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
560.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
586.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
另外我們就台大西教授這個性騷的聲音我想在前年112年初就已經傳出來那一直到專科醫生考試完112年11月才敢檢舉而且我們西教授他是慣犯光這次報出來對象至少有6個那台大醫院你們是在11月接到檢舉嗎我們請院長來一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
597.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
619.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這件事情台大醫院並沒有接到檢舉沒有檢舉 你們是顧主席對 這是顧主席 而且剛才我們這個性評委員會的主任委員高副院長他其實是一收到馬上跟我報告因為有人用那個NINE傳給他這個時間點可能要再釐清一下 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
622.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
643.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個受害者本人是用醫院的這個TestMessage寫給我那我也跟他談話這個部分我剛剛也聽到了那我想問的就是說因為我們醫師的訓練是師徒那你要徒弟出來控訴自己的師父這說真的一般人都是非常有壓力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
644.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
651.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那我們有給這些醫生啊就是說受到侵害的這些醫生有沒有什麼保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
653.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
674.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
還是我們已經很習慣在這裡面我們白色巨塔裡面常常會有這種事情發生好 那我們的住院是有一個友善完全沒有性騷霸凌專業的學習訓練這絕對是我們一定要做的所以當然我受到這樣第一個我就是以老師的身分我非常的感到難過沒有保護他們這邊有個資料就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
677.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
698.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們在2018年就有調查過有80%的女醫師63%的男醫師都曾經遭受過職場的性騷但是只有3.5%的人曾經使用申訴管道那我覺得我們的這個申訴管道是不是不被信任還是有做檢討的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
699.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
716.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好這個申訴管道我們在人事室那我們也在醫院持續的宣傳然後在教學部呢在每個階段不管他們在實習PGY住院醫師都有持續的宣傳重點是現在要使用這個人他會不會覺得他有壓力你們是不是能夠保密 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
718.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
743.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
臺大在保密這部分是覺得可以放心所以像這次事件他們願意接受訪談可是他不願申訴他就有這些擔心雖然我們有給他很多的安全的這個保證但是我們還是用固執的方式那我再重點就是說這些受害者他們並不希望被人家知道所以我們不管媒體或各方面去描述這些其實都是對他們二次傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
744.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
773.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那我醫院 我在講我們西教授性燒的案件5月底的調查結果就出來是性燒那你們醫院的調查報告去識別化後公布有問題嗎這個報告沒有辦法公布 除非為什麼這個本來就是有隱私再怎麼樣去識別化還是會對號入座而且這也是對受害者的一個傷害那只有在 受害者是受害是被害人啊 受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
774.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
796.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
受害那其實我剛才要再補充一下其實5月2號我們會議這個結束之後實際上就有要將加害跟受害者要怎麼執行保護這個當天在報告還沒有全部出來就已經有跟他的直屬現任的主任談我們的主任是楊主任嘛對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
797.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
817.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
對 就是很早我們就做這些處理我看他發的聲明他說僅私下詢問是否有上有其他的人證或物證可以證明那絕無向被害人表示孤男寡女共處一室要怎麼證明所以我在講這兩句話的意思有哪裡不一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
819.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
840.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個我們不予評論,因為那是他個人的聲明,並不是由醫院做任何的聲明所以他是個人的,醫院不負責任就對了這個是他個人的聲明,不經過我們醫院所以他們隨便講都可以,因為針對這種事情無法回答你無法回答?是那你想來幹嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
847.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
873.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
楊主任的那個個人的聲明是在我們見到媒體以後我們院方特別我也有把楊主任講來就為一個行政主管你是不及格的這個是不及格因為我們千方百計用盡各種方法就是要保護受害人我們整個調查的過程我們最第一要務就是保護受害人不要受到二次傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
874.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
886.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
因為那個加害者那時候還沒有離開那我再問我們這個西教授現在已經離開他也記兩大過那我想請問一下這兩大過對他有什麼影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
888.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
913.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在其實對醫院來講沒有問題他已經離職而且沒有但是因為他有一個教師的身份他可能假如是被學校解聘跟自動離職辭職這個對他的退休金是會有所影響但是這部分就不是醫院可以跟醫院他就是已經切掉了醫院他已經沒有任何的工作甚至他的工作證跟什麼卡我們都收回了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
913.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
939.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好啦,那我再最後補充,我們結論就是我發現這個事情也不是單一案件,也是發生好幾次的我覺得我們第一線的主管,應該要更有作為一點那這整個的流程,這整個的配套,大家需要檢討一下,大家改進好不好?謝謝那再來,我再請問我先補充一下,其實高副院長是台灣理醫師協會的理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
941.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
958.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以他保護女醫師應該是非常的用心的只是說他還是要按依法行事好 謝謝那個部長這個前兩天我接到我們罹患帕金森市政的病友陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
959.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
980.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那他們一直以來無法比照重大傷病享有各項健保的醫療補助那部長我想請問有關帕金森市政的相關社會資源以及相關的福利補助部落都落在這個帕金森市政的中後期也就是說在離病之後的10年左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
981.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
990.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
但他們在前期就無法工作面臨龐大的這個醫療這個相關的醫療的支出你覺得這個東西有沒有減腦的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
993.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1011.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
任何一個疾病病人需要照顧而我們沒有給他適當的照顧或者是他們滿意的照顧當然都是我們要去努力的方向跟目標啦那我們帕金森症相關的社會資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1013.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1030.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這個部分那個我想我們在我不要講那麼多啦就你也知道這個東西就是說我認為社會安全網社會體系及健保補助不應該忽略他們那邱部長可以承諾嗎可以承諾協助他們來解決這樣的一個問題嗎就是納入考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1034.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1061.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我想如果在健保方面不曉得有沒有給這個部分怎麼樣的那如果不夠的話,我們再用社會福利來一起來努力那個副署長有什麼話?帕金森市政我們會邀請專業的學協會那特別包含的像神經醫學會,還有這個失智症協會,還有精神醫學會我們邀請他們來擬定這樣子的提案好謝謝,那我看洪部長坐很久應該很無聊,最後一句問你一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1063.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1090.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
你這個彈性工時的設計再加工作或同樣的案子就是職業重建等等我們勞動部的勞發署是不是也可以協助一起來解決這個問題說職業重建的哪個部分就是我們剛剛講帕金森市政的患者因為他早在前期他就很多人可能會因為這樣沒有工作這部分我們勞動部這個勞發署是不是可以協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1091.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1116.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這個部分因為重建比較是指的是在施能的部分施能的部分對對對跟委員報告我們目前對於如果他在工作上有需要植物再設計的部分我們是可以提供相關的協助那我們會到時候那我們希望你們兩個部會大家再再聯繫一下嘛好不好好好謝謝謝謝就委員謝謝部長 |