| IVOD_ID |
15855 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15855 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-22-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-29T08:30:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-29T12:40:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:09:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373dcb0d1d3af5c18c1c8bd03a951da4504b3be8d109af184be4758a56be7fb2edcb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:14 - 12:40:00 |
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29.818 |
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主席 |
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1793.475 |
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1805.408 |
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報告委員會初期委員15人以主法定的人數所以我們現在開會那本週一跟四是一次會那我們首先要進行報告事項我們請議事人員先宣讀上一次的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1807.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1822.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會．第9次全體委員會議．事由．中華民國113年4月24日上午9時至12時29分．中華民國113年4月25日上午9時至12時50分．地點本院群閑樓10會議室出席委員或用卡委員等15人． |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1823.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1840.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
列席委員．章家俊委員等18人．列席人員．4月24日河南安全委員．主管委員．陳東陽稅同國關人員．外交部．台灣日本關係協會專盟委員劉拓．交通部．中央氣象署署長．陳佳平衛生服務役部．食品藥物管理署副署長．林金甫 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1842.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1867.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
農業部漁業署副署長陳建佑．海洋委員會國家海洋研究院代理主任秘書張志維．行政院主席總署公務與選出專門委員廖玉玲．4月25日．文化部中次長王石思．率同有關人員．採訪法人公共電視文化事業基金會董事長胡元輝．主席您召集委員以儆．4月24日報告．事項依宣讀上會議事錄．決定依事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1867.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1896.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
而河南安全委會主任委員．陳東陽．外交部．交通部．衛生福利部．農業部．海洋委員會．並席就我國周遭海域．寒川沸水監控與因應進行專題報告．並備質詢。．討論事項審查113年度中央政府總預算有關河南安全委會主管預算公共預算解凍案4案本日曾採綜合巡導由委員洪孟凱等17人提出質詢軍機河南安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及相關人員及其答覆說明內委委員吳春生提出書面質詢權宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1897.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1912.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
一半外景訊到完畢．二委員所提書面諮詢．或相關資料列入紀錄並開談公報．三對委員諮詢．要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分．請相關機關監促以書面答覆．4、113年度中政府總預算有關可能安全文化主管預算公務預算解凍案事案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1912.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1938.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
審查完略均準與動之提報約會．4月25日報告事項．文化部次長列席就跨族群、跨平台、跨語言而紹服務計劃公視第三台轉型而紹頻道進行專題報告．並備質詢。．本議程由委員黃文凱等19人提出質詢。．軍情文化部專務司長王石思、財團法人、公用電視、文化事業基金會董事長、服務委員會及相關人員及其答覆說明。．另由委員陳冠廷等2人提出書面質詢決定． |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1939.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1951.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
一、報告及詢討完畢．二、委員所提書面諮詢．或相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報．三、對委員諮詢要求提供相關資料或未及當付的部分．且相關機關件書以書面答覆．通過臨時提案以上宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1953.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1972.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好那我看一下啊因為現在目前為止在場的委員沒有達到一決人數的三人數我們議事錄暫時不處理那我們今天的議程是邀請文化部、教育部、司法院、法務部還有數位發展部列席就表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1973.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1997.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
相關單位的取締、防範及執法成效．我們來進行專題報告．並備質詢首先介紹在場的委員我們是有萬美玲委員介紹我們與會的官員我想各一個部門我們就代表因為我們都常常在這個地方大家都已經認識質詢過了文化部我們就歡迎政務次長王石思 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1999.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2025.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那體育部的話就是體育署的署長正是中正署長那有內政部警政署刑事警察局的警政監林明佐好謝謝還有我們法務部檢察司的副司長簡美惠法務部檢察司的主任檢察官劉怡婷還有我們金融監管監督管理委員會的銀行局的組長劉萬基 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2028.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2049.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
還有數位發展部數位產業署的副署長林俊秀是謝謝數位發展部數位產業署的科長黃興富對還有我們主計總處公務預算處的專門委員李易柔好謝謝各位那現在呢我們就是請這個文化部王次長來進行報告報告時間是5分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2060.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2090.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席、各位委員、各位在場的先生女士大家好今天應大院教育及文化委員會的邀請文化部就表演票券黃牛票的取締防範及執行成效提出報告並備詢感謝各位委員的支持與指教那非常感謝大院去年在文化部修訂《文化創意產業發展法》第10條之一的時候修正條文的支持那這個條文對演藝表演票券被演藝表演票券以高於票面價格或定價上架販售還有以機器人程式掃票取得票券或 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2090.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2106.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
取票憑證這兩類的黃牛行為來加以遏止．那修正條文也在去年的6月2日已經正式施行．文化部跟內政部警政署有跨部會的合作．以防止藝文表演票券的黃牛行為．在修正條文後同步開設九女黃牛的專區．也來接受民眾的檢舉． |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2107.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2126.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
文化創意發展法所定義的黃牛行為．包括兩種主要的方式．一種是以所謂不正方式取得票券．一種是加價販售．從去年的6月2日到今年的4月15日為止．案件的這個樣的狀況如下．第一個在以不正的方式取得票券． |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2127.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2146.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
的這個裡面．文化部收受了131件的檢舉案．那這些檢舉案加上這個內政部警政署．刑事警察局．跟地方警察單位有自行調查．那目前有8件以草票機器人的程式．購買演唱會票券的案子．3件已經移送了地檢署．2件已經還起訴．其他案件也正在展開刑事調查． |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2148.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2152.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在加價轉售的部分,文化部也收到了檢舉案2105件在這2000多件裏面有609件是可以繼續查查的有資料可以足夠查查,它的範圍也屬於文創法規範的範圍裏面目前300件已經處理完畢,完成率大概有五成 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2165.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2189.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
已經裁處30案,裁判金額為2084,490元另外,我們有一些配套措施．包括跨部會協調．我們除了跟行政院有來召開．跨部會協調．包括內政部警政署．內政部警政署在今年4月18日．破獲Max的搶票機器人程式．移送地檢署另外,我們也跟地方政府．積極溝通及協助調查．因為主要． |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2191.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2216.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
在調查幾個案件裡面是屬地主義所以由演唱地的地方主管機關來進行調查所以在去年有召開說明會跟教育訓練那在今年也北中南的三場教育訓練都已經完成那另外很關鍵的是推動實名制的輔導那我們除了開設這個檢舉專區之外呢也輔導這個業者來採取實名制那在去年的8月8號也發布了鼓勵流行音樂這個演出 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2217.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2242.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
實名制的補助的作業要點那目前的補助金額已經超過314萬元那在今年來說已知的演唱會有28場會採用實名制3場是部分實名制那在今年也收到了20件的這個實名制補助的申請案包括大家可能很熟悉的YOASOBI、美波、IU這些大概都我們都會持續進行辦理補助那最後的是針對政策宣導的部分我們為了避免很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2243.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2265.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席、民眾尤其是年輕學子因為不知道而觸法所以在這個政策選導上我們是連結教育部、地方政府還有民間的主辦單位以及售票平台來結合來加強宣傳讓大家了解說在這個黃牛票的販售裡面除了這個罰還之外還有罰金跟刑期的這個規定希望大家不要因為不知情而觸法 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2266.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2287.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那在整體來說我們會持續接受民眾的檢舉那協同警政單位跟地方政府落實宣導跟查查那文化部跟這個地方政府跟警察單位會繼續陸力執法來維護整個藝文國內這個藝文表演票券市場的這個秩序那也非常謝謝委員們對於修法跟各種補助案的支持以上謝謝好謝謝王次長然後我們現在還有在場還有侯孟楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2295.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2308.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
目前我們委員人數已經達3人對於上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或是遺漏之處沒有的話那我們就議事錄確定接下來我們是不是請我們的鄭署長來做口頭報告時間5分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2313.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2332.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、先生大家好今日應邀列席大院教育及文化委員會進行專題報告．在此僅進行檢要報告．敬請各位委員指正與支持報告如下在相關法規方面為維護民眾觀賞運動賽事或活動的權益確保票券正常流通 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2334.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2354.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
運動產業發展條例徵定第24條之一條文經大院112年12月15日三讀通過總統於1月3日公布主要規範加價販售票券之行為與以不正方式利用電腦或其他相關設備取得票券之行為之相關罰則執行上得洽請警察機關協助調查及檢舉、獎勵授權執法法員等事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2357.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2378.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
在防範及配套措施方面在第一點定定授權執法及裁罰基準規例地方主管機關具執法已於113年2月29日定定發布運動賽事或活動票券違規案件檢取處理及獎勵辦法以及運動產業發展條例第24條之一第二項裁罰基準第二點設置檢取專區方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2382.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2398.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
民眾除得競向運動賽事或活動舉辦的所在地﹐地方主管機關進行檢舉之外﹐考慮其檢舉時﹐可能有判別運動賽事或活動舉辦地所轄﹐地方主管機關不一之情形﹐本部提署已於官網設置檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2401.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2415.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
檢舉專區．並將分籃與所轄地方主管機關進行查處．此外．也將緊密結合各地方政府聯絡窗口．共同協力落實相關法規規定及後續執行。第三點方面．運動賽事票券．非公自用防範作法． |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2417.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2441.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
為了保障消費者之權益．定有運動賽事票券．定型化契約應記載．以及不得記載事項。第5點．但書明定．以非公自用購買票券而轉售徒利者．企業經營者得不予退票。在執行狀況的方面．本部體育署運動賽事或活動檢舉案件．自本條例增訂第二十條之一公布執行後．其經共兩案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2442.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2456.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
類型軍屬價價販售行為．舉辦地軍委臺北市．已經已請臺北市政府需依相關法規進行審理．實際裁罰情形需在該機關查處之後才能確定先就案件分析如下第一案為TOYOTA2024年獨賣巨人 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2459.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2479.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
90週年大巨蛋交流賽．有4位檢舉人分別檢舉．有3人拒名、1人匿名．因判別的檢舉時間不同．該案經所轄地方主管機關查證屬實．且行政罰還主分書．送達被檢舉人之後．該機關將依前接辦法相關規定．核發獎金與最先檢舉者 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2480.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2506.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
第二案為UBA大專籃球聯賽．是一位匿名檢舉．因為沒有辦法辨識其身份．所以沒有辦法核發檢舉獎金在提升執法成效方面第一點我們持續加強教育宣導．未來一將透過辦理政策相關的說明會．座談會等活動．持續加強政府防範黃牛行為相關措施教育宣導．其餘多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2507.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2528.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
途徑以及民眾及相關政府單位共同營造票券正常流通的環境。第二點,我們滾動修正因應措施﹐配合實務查處如綁物售價等非典型加價販售票券之違規行為類型滾動修正執法原則﹐並周知各地方主管機關或對外提供民眾參考。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2529.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2548.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第三點,強化中央及地方的合作．未來若有熱門運動賽事或活動即將舉辦．將透過協助警政單位及地方政府．強化聯繫及執法成效最後,本部體育署除根據鼓勵民眾檢舉．並積極向黃牛呼籲勿以申事法外 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2549.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2563.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
．將朝協同警政單位及地方政府．強化聯繫及執法成效的方向邁進．以完善相關機制．確保運動賽事或活動票券正常流通以上報告再請各位委員給予本部支持與指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2581.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2606.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席還有各位委員、女士先生大家早那以下代表數位部來報告那陳本貴委員會邀請本部針對表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫相關單位的取締、防範、執法成效這個議題來提出專案報告深感榮幸以下請就本部業管部門向各位委員報告也聆聽各位委員的寶貴意見第一個是本部對數位轉型的作為本部積極從三發就是設發、產發跟突發的層面 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2609.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2612.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
增進社會共同協助產業轉型提升應變韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2614.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2629.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
並建構全民的數位基礎可提供黃牛票檢舉平台的協助我想文化部根據《文創法》建立檢舉黃牛專區教育部體育署根據運動發展條例也設置檢舉黃牛票專區系就不同的法院進裁判機制來建立這些專區針對前階部會所分配建立的檢舉平台本部可以協助強化平台的資訊安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2640.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2658.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
支援文化部及教育部體育署．或者是平台的管理業者．建立完善的治安的一個防護機制．例如導入零信任的機制．降低系統治安的風險．防止駭客入侵．管理系統導致捲舉的機敏資料外洩另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2660.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2678.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
若調查檢舉案件時或平臺的維運中有資安事件的話．本部資安院想下的TWSIRCC．也就是臺灣電腦網路危機處理機協調中心．以建立產業通報的應變的一個管道．全天四小時接受資安事件的通報． |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2680.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2696.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這個我們也可以來協助．與是本部致力於本國數位產業的發展．強化數位治理及推動數位基礎建設．同時協助公司部門數位轉型．若各部會有數位技術相關的需要．本部都很願意來提供協助．以上簡單報告謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2697.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2697.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
發言委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2718.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2733.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
提出並於本委員會羅廷維委員質詢．結束之後．我們就立即進行處理．處理提案的時候若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場．我們原例是不予處理的．我們是不是首先請發言登記第一位的萬美玲委員質詢謝謝昭瑞我們有請王次長王次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2749.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2753.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
委員早次長早次長喜不喜歡張學友 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2757.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2781.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
還好那這一次我們看到至少你應該知道這一次張學友再度來到台灣開演唱會那前面是六場後面加場那前面那個六場那個票那個不叫秒殺那個是真的是打開就全部就賣光了那所以呢哀鴻遍野因為很多啊你們不太喜歡他但他在台灣擁有廣大的歌迷 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2782.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2796.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以其實非常非常多人上網去搶票那包括本席跟我們很多的朋友那一天幾乎是很多人都是把電腦打開非常多隻的手機都準備在那個地方來搶票這都是在尋正常管道但是我們總是看到在這個網站上面那就是不斷的那個訊號一直轉圈轉圈轉到大家非常心焦那最後幾乎都是落空 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2806.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2810.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以這個時候結果黃牛出來了所以我們其實看到在這一次不管是張學友或者是韓國的天后IU我想他們的票其實都非常的搶手所以即便張學友在家場一樣都搶光光但是我想我們回頭來看去年的9月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2827.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2841.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們有一名這個周姓的這個電腦工程師那他自己用這個自行撰寫的AI的外掛程式來用收取代購費的方式呢去幫民眾到各大這個售票網站去買票 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2842.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2846.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那他這個搶購的機會都是熱門的這個演唱會的黃牛票三個月得手了152張這件事情次長一定知道那這也是在去年的6月我們這個文創法這個防堵黃牛搶票之後的一個首例那我們看到這第一案怎麼判的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2861.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2875.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
他這個被捕之後他認罪但是呢就是返還了他的27.9萬的不罰所得那另外呢這個再罰金大概50萬再加一個50萬的罰金就換得了緩起訴所以次長你認為現在這個黃牛票搶成就是猖獗成這樣但是我們的首例是這樣的一個判例你怎麼看這會有嚇阻的效果嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2887.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2900.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
跟委員報告我想第一個就是判例不管是檢察官的判斷或者是司法院的判斷我想在司法上我們還是尊重判斷的結果但是就這個實質的執行的狀況來說我們的確認為在這些比較重大的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2906.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2907.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
4月29日及5月2日二天一次會 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2926.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2946.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
關鍵是他用不正方式掃票所以觸犯的是形式你說關鍵是什麼他用不正的方式取得也就是用掃票的行為那當然嘛那我想因為我們其實在文創法修法的時候我講得很清楚哪些要件您剛剛也報告過了可是我們看到這一位周姓的這個工程師他被查獲152張票以一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2948.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2955.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
以比較熱門的演唱會的平均票價我們用3000塊來算因為我們的罰金是10倍到50倍我們就用10倍去計算這樣算一下他至少應該要被罰到456萬但剛才您也報告過了現在全國的財主金額只有208萬可見這個案子是沒有用加價轉售的這個方式去裁罰的那如果是這樣的話這個裁罰的基準是正確的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2977.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2979.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
跟委員說明因為它畢竟是兩種行為型、樣態一個是加價一個是不正而它觸犯的是不正關鍵是出現在這裡所以它是以不正的這個法條的部分下去做規範那加價的部分因為它在這個案子裡面並沒有所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2992.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3007.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
市長我想我們去年在討論這個修法的時候我們就是希望能夠針對用作弊程式搶票的人能夠被重罰但是我們文創法之後的這一期我們的罰的方式是剛剛您說的可能用作弊程式搶票給予懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3009.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3025.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
但是對於他收這個代購費用然後去轉售這個門票那你是沒有用我們這個就是加購轉售的方式的10倍到50倍去罰那我覺得這個是一個很大的一個漏洞那您也看得非常清楚但是今天在這邊又要跟我講刑法那又要針對漏洞的部分其實我覺得視而不見我覺得難怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3032.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3060.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
如果文化部是這麼消極的一個態度的話難怪黃牛票會如此的猖獗所以次長那本席就在請教你如果現在有很多的社群其實我們打開這個網站上都可以看得到有很多代購啦代尋啦或代搶票的這個方式來提供演唱會的這個門票然後再去要求支付代購代搶的費用他等轉一手那這難道不算黃牛票的一種嗎?要看個案的狀態有可能是什麼叫做要看個案的狀態法現在那邊這麼清楚對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3062.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3080.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
沒有就是說因為如果代購的是必要開支也就是收錢的是第三方譬如說油資費啊車資收錢是第三方他就不會構成所謂的加價但是如果錢是他收去他就會是符合了所謂的加價轉售的要件所以就要看個案的情況事實上是什麼樣的狀況來做來做判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3084.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3102.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
市長,我們在臉書上去搜尋搶票可以看到一大堆售票、讓票、換票的演唱會的社團裡面有很多都是用代購、代搶票的方式如果我們有一個很大的漏洞在那個地方但是文化部的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3103.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3116.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
跟說法都是說我們看看個案啊每一個個案再來看看啊我覺得其實是真的非常非常辛苦這件事情啦所以呢網站打開有這麼多目前都是用這樣的漏洞在做我不知道你是不想查還是裝的不知道那所以根據 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3118.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3127.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
根據文化部您自己提供跟北京的資料我們看到文化部的檢舉專區我們鼓勵檢舉嘛那從成立到現在4月15號統計下來符合文創法第10條之一的規定案件如果是加價轉售的案件現在有1640件那其中資料齊全的就有609件但是實際裁罰卻只有30件總裁罰進行的就是您剛剛在報告的208萬而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3145.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3162.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
另外,以不證方式來購票的案件有101件資料齊全的現在也有6件加上警察機關來自行調查的兩件現在有8件都是我們最重視的以掃票機器人的程式搶票的案件現在三件地檢署還在調查中兩件還起訴所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3167.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3181.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
市長我們如果依照這樣的一個裁判的案件數、金額還有這個處罰的方式那還有我們對待這個黃牛的態度你覺得這樣子到目前為止有辦法去嚇阻黃牛嗎那有沒有必要來加重如果我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3182.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3207.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
現在整個文創法過了以後但是我們看到演唱會的票還是黃牛層出不窮就像剛才我們討論的如果我們查緝執行力是很低的我們在認定上面其實又很寬鬆的我們罰則又不夠重那你難怪有這麼多黃牛他願意以身試法因為高利的誘惑之下他們就前仆後繼所以這一點次長覺得有沒有需要加重的這個必要出發 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3208.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3208.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
市長你不是回頭去呼籲啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3227.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3227.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
第二件事是說第二件事是說台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3243.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3257.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們看到這一次不管是韓國的天后或者是這個幾個熱門的演唱會包括張學友那你看我們又看到又有竹科的工程師去撰寫這個搶票機器人還工人下載那我們有沒有去想過就像您剛說的如果各大售票系統演唱會的這個票券的這個系統這麼容易就可以去破解然後這個搶票機器人的這個程式都可以這麼快 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3270.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3295.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那你有沒有想過有沒有找過比如說數位發展部阿去想想看怎麼去協助這些這個售票平台去強化他們的資安喔我們有跟售票平台做洽談怎麼做就是要求他們來做這些加強他的程式去防範掃票機器人的這個程式效果其實有的售票平台就做得比較好其實的確是看售票平台他們自己的數位能力他們有的會比較願意投資這個成本來做的他就會做得比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3296.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3297.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好 謝謝萬委員接下來我們請登記第二號的洪孟楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3331.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3339.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
主席謝謝麻煩請文化部次長、體育署署長跟我們數位發展部的代表好我們請三位代表謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3344.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3363.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
委員長來抱歉我先請教鄭署長好不好來鄭署長我先請教另外一個議題也是大家非常關注就是說體育署這邊關心這地方政府優化我們的一些球員場地那其中包括說職棒場地的部分那我們就看到是說最近有兩個場地被大家來做比較一個是桃園 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3364.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3364.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
蘇長有沒有注意到這個新聞? |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3392.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3416.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
報告委員那我有打電話去請教那個運發局的局長那單一事件他是回應那個地方是他們懷疑應該是之前排水工程不小心遺落下來但是他們用整個金屬探測器去把全場去掃描過一遍應該是沒有其他的疑慮了那怎麼會有那麼離譜在一個球場裡面有L鐵條而且30公分 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3417.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3439.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
的一個L鐵條那還好是發現得早不是讓球員去發現不是在比賽途中發現不然很有可能就會造成我們的選手受傷我們的球員受傷那這樣的一個狀況球員工會這邊也講是說應該要再去做一個處理跟一個了解那現在是單一個案而已嗎目前是因為他們也後面也在中 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3440.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3445.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
中華紙棒聯盟的建議之下他們也是有整個金屬探測器整個掃過了目前這個問題應該是後面不會產生的才對 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3450.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3477.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
但有沒有確認是說到底那個因為如果這樣的話因為本席都不禁懷疑是說這是不是之前就已經有留下來的一個鐵條那本席也看過之前我們體育署也有補助我們澄清湖棒球場來做這一些整建工程當然這件不是體育署補助的因為我們最後一次補助澄清湖的案子是106年的時候2017年嘛 對不對所以說這一個案子不是體育署補助但是會這樣工程裡面發現球場裡面有這種鐵條其實是非常離譜的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3480.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3498.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這部分我們也是請運發局這邊特別要關注那個施工的品質而且到最後如果說這個施工品質有問題那尤其是驗收有沒有確認是說到有沒有人為疏失他們還在調查當中體育署能不能來要求我們地方政府這邊什麼時候來給我們體育署這邊做回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3499.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3521.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
報告委員因為這個案子畢竟不是我們補助的可能有困難啦但是我們還是會請他們說明我再來跟委辦這邊跟委員報告我覺得重點在於是體育署身為我們中央主管機關尤其是各球場的部分因為本期看到沒有錯這個案子不是體育署補助但是提高雄市政府在4月初也發一個新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3521.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3533.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
說要積極爭取體育署之後的球場補助啊所以如果說用這樣的一個施工品質的話我真的很難想像說體育署如果補助更大筆的錢我們的施工品質要怎麼把關所以還是要請體育署這邊來確認說這有沒有人為疏失那以及後續的一個懲處好嗎好 謝謝來再來 次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3544.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3564.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
確認一下說我們現在這個新法上任之後我們有總共裁罰那我們如果說真的有檢舉的這個黃牛的一個部分我們有提供相關獎金嗎有有有檢舉獎金那檢舉獎金目前發了多少費用檢舉獎金目前已經有48000多吧已經發出去還有5萬多還在持續幾筆我們檢舉獎金已經發了幾筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3573.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3591.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
有三件46840元是已經發了對另外還有14案還沒有發那因為這14案有一些狀況需要最後的確認包括有的可能是匿名有的是有訴願可能被撤回或者是有牽涉到一個其中有甚至有牽涉到恐嚇取材所以還沒有發出 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3592.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3615.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
但是這14件,這三件已經確定的檢舉獎金都是有抓到這個相關的黃牛嗎?對不對?對對對,是本案成立的情況下那體育署這邊剛本席有看到就是說你的這個報告裡面是有一件對不對?6000多塊所以本席講是說這個相對來講也可以讓這個民眾來了解就是說現在我們是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3616.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3617.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
但再拉回來喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3642.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3671.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
市長有沒有注意到現在黃牛說擔心受黃牛票吃上刑責而竟然改賣假票來詐騙這個有沒有注意到這樣的一個新聞現在其實委員非常清楚這個狀況現在其實最困擾的不只是黃牛而是詐欺就它轉成詐騙所以我們也要提醒就是說現在購買黃牛票的風險會更高它不只是說你要有很高的代價更重要的是你可能根本沒有那張票 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3672.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3676.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所以在這裡 詐欺的狀況讓行政局也有提高他們整個針對詐欺這一塊的偵查那也是黃牛票的這個類型裡面我們覺得現在的趨勢了是啊 但是本席真的很納悶就是說現在跟連同剛剛我們萬委員之間質詢的地方一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3691.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3718.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
就是說我們已經在過去這一年裡面大家各部會都已經討論了非常多次包括說藝文票包括說體育票我們就希望是告訴大家正確的觀念以及我們要防堵這樣子的一個黃牛的一個文化惡行但沒想到黃牛現在好像反而變本加厲從原本賣黃牛票而已現在變成是改做詐騙犯那到底我們要去做的是立法院修法是要對付黃牛怎麼感覺反而是導致黃牛變成是詐騙集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3720.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3722.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這會不會讓大家覺得是說好像我們越打越炸 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3749.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3750.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
目前這兩家的中基還有在台灣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3779.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3804.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
他們都在第一個是說他們有說不在台灣就是停止了公司解散那有一家是說他就改到國外去他不要做台灣的市場因為台灣有刑責的問題所以有刑責還是會有一定的嚇阻作用還是一般人我想應該是有一定有的那另外剛剛你有提到是說有一些售票網站相對來講是比較做得比較好有哪些售票網站是做得比較好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3805.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3827.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
委員我再私下跟你說這不是私下市長本席因為現在在討論我覺得這很務實喔我現在講是說很多的售票網站市長我要釐清一個觀念今天並不是要探尋什麼商業機密或等等的部分而是售票網站有很多那你既然已經有提到是說有一些售票網站他做得比較好是確實有把 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3828.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3850.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
小票機器人給排除在外的那你應該是以這樣子的一個條件跟規範來要求其他的售票網站也可以一起來做那如果說其他售票網站做不到的話是不是能夠請速發部這邊來協助技術的支援或是怎麼樣能夠提升把這個門檻整個加高而不是每一次這種售票的黃牛的這樣的一個行為都變成是消費者大家去承擔啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3851.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3859.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
第一個就是協助的部分就是因為其實這些售票平台他們有自己的資訊部門那我們的確有跟他們洽談希望他們提高這個技術但是這個資訊部門一樣也牽涉他投資進去的經費那我剛剛為什麼那投資多少經費可以讓文化部次長覺得是說這個售票網站是比較好可以掃除售票機器人 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3870.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3892.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
比較專業投資多少錢的事情其實我們並不知道要看售票網站經營他的售票網站的規模跟他想要達到的效果來 次長 這個就是積極度與否來 我覺得也請署長、次長這邊都要一起來瞭解因為剛剛其實我跟外媒領委員我們在台下當然這個是抓署長與並可是你的書面報告是講說你會積極的呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3897.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3924.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
黃牛不要以身試法我們現在講說哇我們的政府機關到最後我們的做法結語是積極的跟黃牛喊話你們不要再來買黃牛票了還給消費者不對積極用錯方向如果說剛剛依照市長你的邏輯其實這一點也是我們認為應該要從根本下手如果售票網站它可以加強它的資安讓掃票機器人沒有辦法有作用的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3925.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3945.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那當然就可以還給一般普羅大眾大家就各憑本事我今天我開三個手機五個手機我去搶票至少我是真人我每個請兄弟姊妹爸爸媽媽幫忙一起搶我覺得這都還是情有可原因為我搶我是要為了我自己去看但是如果說有人用城市二月去掃票那他就是想要圖利想要盈利 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3946.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3970 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那你剛講說有些售票網站他做得比較好可以把掃票機器人給排除那我們就要應該去了解這個售票網站做得比較好他是投資了多少錢假設五百萬就可以有這樣的一個掃票機器人給排除的話那講不客氣的我們就要求其他售票網站也要比照辦理否則你不應該在這整個公平的智慧平台公平的自由市場上你可能就會造成一個犯法的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3971.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3986.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
應該是有主管機關這邊要有一點不管是強制力也好不管是這個誘導也好不管是相對補助也好我覺得都應該來去做來提高這種掃票機器人進入門檻讓還給整個售票一般的自由大眾市場不是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3987.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3987.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
市長,說實在話市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4009.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4038.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我知道你今天很積極地搶話我希望你防堵黃牛的積極態度也跟在委員會備詢的時候積極搶話一樣積極就好最後我只提醒因為現在還有黃牛他們有變種就是不是只是賣票他們故意賣其他的部分賣麥克風一萬塊送兩張原價的演唱會票有沒有看到這種樣態有 這也被我們當作一個有被 有看到嘛那這種樣態能不能被檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4039.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4067.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
如果說我明明賣一支筆一萬塊但是我送兩張原價票那罪翁之意不在酒他根本不是要賣這支筆他其實要賣那兩張票那兩張票就是變形的黃牛那這樣的一個樣態可以被檢舉我們有查獲這樣的一個狀況嗎目前這個部分還在查查我們還沒有特定的個案是可以看到是因為綁物的販售而被定罪的那這樣子是不是能夠找 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4068.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4089.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我們的這個法務部門也來演繹就說要提出質疑給販售網站或者是說一些這個網購平台這樣的一個樣態其實也是符合我們的黃牛條款也是會有刑責的要見可以什麼時候能夠做到是不是開會討論可以一個月內提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4091.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4120.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
謝謝,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4121.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4124.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
好,接下來我們請陳培宇委員先說一下祝主席生日快樂,今天是主席的生日好,那我們...好,請次長還有金管會哪位代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4149.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4151.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
好,我們的劉萬機組長是不是?好,謝謝! |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4153.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4180.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
委員好,好,謝謝次長,謝謝金管會的同仁,我們來看一下喔在修法完之後,我知道文化部非常積極,然後其實文化部的同仁跟地方縣市政府的警政同仁其實真的非常的辛苦可是呢,我們之前為了這個修體育的那個條例喔,體育的黃牛票的事情我們辦公室在1月的時候先召開了一個協調會,我們想要知道以文化部的經驗如何可以提供給體育署更多積極的建議,讓相關修法可以快速進入軌道 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4181.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4204.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
可是我們在開相關會一幫文化部發現了一個很大的行政上的困境跟瓶頸我們來看一下就是目前我們只知道黃牛的帳號可是帳號對不到人民這件事情呢其實我們發現是很大的困境可是也因為在這個裁罰上它並不屬於刑事的部分所以我們就沒有辦法去要求行政單位給予協助那以至於在行政調查所以就卡在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4205.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4220.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那我們後來知道文化部就是我這個投影片上文化部其實有發了兩次的公文去給金管會可是金管會都拒絕提供相關的資料次長我不知道您知不知道您的同仁遇到這樣的困境當然我們有再跟金管會再做協調跟了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4221.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4225.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我們來看一下我們上個禮拜也才召開相關的會議跟金管會這邊做了討論其實我們認為金管會對銀行法相對保守的解釋底下我們當然認同不要輕易的給出很多有隱私資料的隱密資料的可能性可是因為我必須要承認當時大家在立法的時候並沒有討論到這一塊也因為沒有相關執行經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4242.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4257.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
所以現在回過來看難道銀行法真的沒有可能在這件事情上先有些作為嗎那我們找到了第48條第4款其實有機會保留主管機關可以協助的但書不知道次長林這邊您怎麼看這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4258.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4283.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
跟委員說明這個因為是一個相對強力的立法就是說如果我們要用其他主管機關規定的情況來做的話第一它需要明文也就是說還是得修一個法來讓這個法源有所依據才行那這個法的效力當然就相對是強大的因為它有取得無條件不是無條件在有條件的形容下取得民眾最隱密最重要的資料的這個關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4284.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4299.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
可是我們聽文化部的同仁告訴我們其實只要取得相關姓名就可以了我們來看一下所以我們上禮拜在會議當中確實我們也跟這個金管會這邊有非常積極的討論希望可不可以有機會用暫行辦法先提供文化部相關調查的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4300.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4326.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
讓很多事情不要就卡在所謂行政財閥這邊就沒有辦法積極往下走因為如果是這樣就會出現剛剛其他黨的立委所質詢的好像看起來相關質詢效率很差可是我真的要為文化部的同仁喊冤喔如果在這個情況下確實很多事情就沒有辦法往下所以這邊我可不可以積極的拜託次長是不是可以跟金管會甚至請行政院這邊提出跨部會協商的需求讓金管會用暫行的辦法來提供文化部相關調查的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4327.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4351.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我想任何可以取得資料可以協助讓這個黃牛的案子可以順利進行的方法我們都願意嘗試好那另外就是文化部跟教育部其實在修法之後我相信開始執行也遇到很多問題所以這邊我也要求文化部跟教育部要儘速召開還有沒有後續修法相關的建議搭配上現在執行的困難這個部分也請次長協助好好謝謝那下來我們要討論權中運那次長請回謝謝金管會這邊請回那有請署長謝謝庭運署署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4357.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4366.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好 署長早安這一次全中運我跟郭育群委員在開幕的時候到現場然後在閉幕的時候我們有過去可是對於這個體育組織主辦單位我們認為所有的賽事舉辦完之後都必須要很多討論跟調查或者是檢討會議累積經驗不然每一次換到一個新的縣市很多錯誤可能一再犯錯 對嗎 署長你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4378.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4402.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
報告委員您講的沒有錯不過這部分我們目前有兩個案子分別給導覽體總以及公共體總針對所有的競賽規程、技術手冊還有整個操控各方面這個你知道我要講什麼嗎好那我們先往下看但是有一個署長你一定沒有注意到這是我去到閉幕現場我真的覺得非常不舒服的點我真的誠心要說禮賓人員全部都是中山女高的同學身為台灣第一位女性總統蔡英文總統她就是中山女高畢業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4403.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4422.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
但是我們看到在這個閉幕會的現場當然同學們非常積極、非常認真的付出然後我們縣市也問了老師可能只有志工服務時數我們絕對要給予學生高度的肯定可是我們發現體育署或者是主辦賽事的單位對於禮賓演員的想像非常的封閉甚至必須要說可能有一點父權怎麼說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4423.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4426.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
在2016年起總統府在禮賓人員的選擇上他就有不同的性別甚至在2019年當時是陳菊當秘書長的時候他就有讓女性的禮賓人員可以自由選擇服裝可是我們看到在這一次體育署的主辦賽事裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4439.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4459.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
相對的還是封閉跟比較負權的思維在禮賓人員性別選擇上甚至在衣服的選擇上當然大家可能覺得看起來是小事可是我必須要說我們從總統府開始就已經做了示範可是因為體育署會承辦全國非常非常多相關的賽事主辦了所以是不是這個部分體育署應該要更有一些想法我幫委員沒有問題這部分我們會把它列入未來的指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4460.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4474.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好 謝謝署長接下來除了這個衣服之外其實另外一個發生爭議的事情我想署長你一定非常清楚在禮拜四就有臉書貼文還有相關的新聞稿那體育署你們也說不會接受競賽一年的處理可是我要先問一下體育署這邊有跟當事人選手聯絡了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4477.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4492.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
報告委員這部我們是透過游泳界的在做一些指導事實上我們其實在幕後我們也是告訴這位教練選手他們其實是可以提出一些申訴跟一些聲音出來所以你們其實並沒有直接跟選手聯絡我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4494.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4518.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
其實署長如果你記得上一次我就跟您問過關於滑冰選手要拿那個國光獎章的事情無設獎金我也希望你們可以快速跟選手還有家長溝通可是我們到目前為止跟他們打聽了你們也都還沒有跟他們溝通我之前一直在跟署長強調一件事情就是孩子們這些中學生運動選手他們的感受我相信很重要可是以這一次事情來看我手上有一份陳情書如果署長你要看的話我等一下會後可以給您這是完整的家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4521.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4542.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
寫得非常非常清楚的陳情書他自己甚至翻了非常非常多的法條寫得非常完整我要說的是目前這個家長說他可以接受孩子因為違規被取消這一次參賽資格的狀況可是他更心疼的是孩子當場遇到的說法跟事後體育署還有大會對外的說法跟他們在現場看到的事實非常的不同甚至裁判長還指責 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4544.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4544.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
8位委員的確所以當然規則已經寫在那邊那是我們在競賽 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4559.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4585.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
委員會在當時在審查的時候的疏漏這部分我們會改正但其實當下我們在幕後是有指導間接的去指導這一位的加檔教練來做這樣的事情其實我們是希望能夠游泳協會能夠在這部分能夠儘速的去進步啦但是因為主辦還是體育署啦我當然知道協會有他的角色我相信組長我們都很清楚所以我後面才發一個聲明就是希望所有的賽事都應該要去改變他們的觀念那這部分我們會去督促 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4585.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4609.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
好 因為時間有限我是不是可以快速跟署長溝通一下目前我們希望要求裁判第一優先應該是公立中正執行規則而體育署作為主辦單位更應該要面對規則的罰則過於粗糙因為我們來看我們自己後來事後去看那個規則有非常多很大模糊的空間似乎看起來是為了保留給當場的裁判一個權限可是看起來我覺得目前造成很多爭議這件事情我覺得非常讓很多現場的家長跟教練還有選手非常的痛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4613.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4639.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
再來面對爭議這件事情我知道體育署有發新聞稿署長你自己臉書有寫了可是到底有沒有在有人在第一線第一時間跟孩子溝通跟選手溝通跟家人溝通有在高中體總的部分有在進行再來就是我相信就是署長您剛剛說的相關的運動仲裁相關制度設計還有完善申訴救濟的機制這件事情我相信署長也會是您所在意的就是讓整個事情更制度化這件事情所以我們也希望後續體育署網這個部分再加強是沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4639.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4655.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
可以再給我一點時間嗎?好不好意思好最後最後我要講最後一件事情喔我想這個禁藥新聞署長你應該有看到對嗎?我很清楚好那我們當然知道手不能伸入相關的人士喔可是明明體育署每年都援助這個禁藥防治基金會上千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4656.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4682.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
可是因為利益防弊的問題他很有可能就導致臺灣的選手被禁賽我想署長你比我都還要清楚可是我覺得這件事情真的很不可思議當然我知道體育界有體育界的慣例目前我所聽到的消息就是如同你剛署長說很多幕後的消息說相關這位老師他即將他會被力挺我個人對人事我沒有意見可是我要考慮到所有選手就如同署長您自己在臉書上說的所有的教育文化委員會的委員都在提醒您關注選手權益這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4683.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4708.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以站在維護選手權益上我們是不是應該要正視這一次的事件然後相關的人事風險不要讓人情的關係凌駕了選手權益之上這個部分我的相關建議禁藥防治利益迴避這件事情我想體育署要有更多角色再來禁藥防治基金會它目前設置的位置我故意把這個地址貼出來桃園龜山文化一路250號我想署長你應該非常熟悉可是它的相關分工體育署跟中華奧會應該要相關的討論維護它的獨立性 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4712.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4738.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
因為這一切都是為了選手的權益不知道這部分書長可不可以快速做個回應報告委員那這一次其實我們還是有一介入那我基本上我們跟他所謂的我們績效基金會這邊屬於我們的NATO我們剛剛說你們的專業其實在利益迴避上相關的法條都很非常的明確那如果你們法條上自己解讀不清是不是應該直接向WADA來做一個釐清所以他們其實沒有報應該不能說檯面上的包庇而是他們就主動向WADA來揭露來跟WADA請教這樣的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4740.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4741.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
謝謝陳委員接下來我們請葛如君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4763.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4770.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
謝謝主席,有請文化部王石思次長、體育署鄭世忠署長以及內政部警政署林明佐警政監,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4783.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4801.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
好今天照有安排的專報題目特別具意義因為文創產業發展法針對黃牛票的問題修好滿一年我們來看一下這是我們的打牛報告剛剛已經有很多提過我都不說了這個藝文票券移送案件五件 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4802.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4830.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
體育署這個更誇張四個多月具體成效只有民眾檢舉案件兩件我就在此請教一下文化部體育署跟警政署難道這些零零星星的案件就是這個聯合打牛一年的懲治成果嗎難道二指黃牛完完全全是一般民眾的責任嗎對於主動查緝的成效這是未提可不可以回答我是不是民眾檢舉才是我們唯一的做法是或不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4832.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4852.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
不是,因為其實為什麼案件變得很少很關鍵的原因是因為其實從去年修法之後我們有跟這些售票平台跟主辦單位來做協商所以大量的演唱會尤其是特別受歡迎演唱會幾乎都採了實名制所以打得很好嘛,是不是沒有,它在整體來說數量確實是有下降的 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4853.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4872.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我們就認為你們都一致了那我們來看一下打開社群軟體隨便一看張學友、IU Energy的門票每一個演唱會出來大家都集體哀嚎甚至有人說臺灣就是黃牛天堂我們再來看一下以這個特區B為例原票價是5000多塊結果轉售價額3萬多塊甚至顯示曾經高達7萬塊漲幅高達1000%超過12倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4881.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4896.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
剛剛已經都提過了花錢事小萬一被騙勒剛剛市長也很謝謝你說有知道現在黃牛現在要變成詐騙黃牛了這個真的是非常危險但是您說成效很好我們來看一下從去年5月到今年3月 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4897.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4912.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
將藝文票券以超過票面金額定價販售者被檢舉的案件一共580件其中加起來56%加價金額都低於1000元這跟我們認知的黃牛產業是完全不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4913.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4935.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
結果我們看到了很多我們據悉我們去了解以後發現．很多都是不熟悉法律規範的學生．或者是朋友．他們只不過在轉售票券的過程當中．無意間加上一些手續費所犯下的案件．結果你們文化部的書面報告在結語的時候說．做得很好加價轉售金的大幅下降． |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4936.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4953.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
實際上我們認為根本沒看到滿天的老鷹在飛還沾沾自喜的覺得打了一堆小鳥想請教一下次長文化部到底針對黃牛的案件到底是要打老鷹還是打小鳥到底要主動還是被動可不可以分享一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4954.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4973.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
跟委員說明以張學友的案件來說現在我們已經接獲了112件那有14件都已經在調查那有些現在已經甚至在進行監警員的到場的一個陳述所以是要打老鷹馬的啦所以我們下一次我們就來看一下這個案件是不是又是1000塊囉其實最重要的事情是不要再有黃牛這才是比較關鍵的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4974.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4988.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
講是很容易講但我們接下來就是要看數字好不好然後我們也要看成果零零星星的成果一千塊以上佔56%這都不是我們要的不要持續的消極、被動希望主動、積極 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4989.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5003.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
接下來賴準總統提出的行動Active創新Innovative的內閣難道是因為沒有行動力沒有創新嗎在講現在嗎我們先來講一下創新的部分主席有請數位部產業署署長黃興副科長好 數位部請 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5008.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5015.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
因為我時間有限你一邊移動的時候我就先一邊說明今天數位部來列席書面報告只提到了強化檢舉平台資訊安全但剛剛我們文化部次長已經跟你們求救了很多平台業者的數位能力不一樣但我們來講創新不是只是改變一些程式碼就可以我們來看一下韓國的SK集團打算利用Alpha Launch的區塊鏈技術和NFT非同質化的特性來做未來票券 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5037.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5060.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
全球最大的票券平臺Ticketmaster．去年也推出了區塊鏈代幣門控Token Gating的功能．請問一下數位部．目前有沒有收集國內外．用科技甚至是區塊鏈的技術．來遏止黃牛的案例．甚至進一步進行相關的研究．台灣有ArcaSwap有做過了．國外有OpenSea．有沒有研究過．有或沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5068.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5080.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
有嗎?那有沒有相關的報告?網路上面有嗎?有沒有演繹未來的做法?有沒有給予支持?有沒有連結文化部來做一些跨部會的合作? |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5086.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5103.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
臺灣是科技之島希望數位部能夠跨部會來協助文化部真的是要用魔法來打敗魔法我想我們真的是不能被動要更積極接下來想跟次長分享兩項訊息在此先請教一下次長知不知道母湯是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5103.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5124.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
母湯 台語的不行 台語的母湯嘛 對啦 你很了解我也很了解但我們問了這個Meta這家公司新釋出的最強最強大的Lama3的這個AI問他說你知道母湯是什麼意思嗎 就他說是母親的湯啦 很溫暖啦 像母親煮的湯一樣你如果覺得電影很好看 就要說好母湯啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5127.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5144.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
一樣的問題我們拿去問臺灣的AI計畫臺德7B的版本得到的答案是母湯就是厲害到不行你看到一個運動員比賽很優秀就說這下子他母湯了所以次長我們下一次到電影院看電影看得好看是不是要說母湯母湯我再此先強調一下這不是臺德不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5148.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5164.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
而是他們沒有得到足夠的訓練和資料這是非戰之罪但是如果在AI的時代我們造成了文化覆滅這不是我們要看到的問題我們接下來再問您這個人物、電影人物我們應該要叫蜘蛛人還蜘蛛俠在台灣請回答這是一般文化的問題我平常是叫蜘蛛人那另外一個電影明星你要叫他李奧納多還萊昂納多 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5177.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5192.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
臺灣的翻譯應該是李奧納多很好啊接下來還有更多的例子這是沙丘走紅的這個Zendaya結果在臺灣大概有幾十種藝名有人說他叫千代亞某一間公司說的另外一個電影公司說叫新帝亞中國大陸稱讚達亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5195.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5199.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
結果現在我們在網路上跟人家對話講來講去台灣的名字根本就消失了為什麼因為你一大堆亂七八糟的名字我們對文化部來講我們沒有任何的指引沒有任何的立場我就在此請教一下文化部我們要不要乾脆放棄台灣的藝名 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5212.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5213.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我想文化內容的主體性跟台灣自己在這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5232.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5251.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我想應該是要有方法來訓練這些AI讓他有更多的台灣內容的資源才會回答正確的答案AI的資料靠大邊走我們有沒有可能以官方的立場由文化部來鼓勵建立一個全球電影相關藝名上映的資料庫來跟AI做好好的協作 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5252.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5276.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
有沒有機會演繹啊這個我們來演繹好 謝謝喔那接下來拉馬山我們剛剛看到這個母湯也是對我們這個文化慢慢的變成邊緣啦我們台灣可能會在AI時代變成文化難民我手邊呢有這個文化部提供給國共會台的資料清單礙於版權因素很多的產品管設介紹等等資料嚴重不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5277.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5306.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
反觀我們的鄰國日本早就已經大膽all in AI．無論版權．官方允許任何資料用於訓練人工智慧請教次長．文化部是不是可以針對本身所擁有的資料庫產品．研議進一步全面開放給台德訓練使用．未來升級文化部補助的案件．是不是可以研議在一定的限度之下必須將成果開放給台德．或者其他台灣支持的大元模型來使用訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5307.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5315.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
以上兩點希望文化部可以加強與藝文界的溝通並著手進行相關研議將研議成果於一個月內順便回覆本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5318.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5339.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
謝謝文化部最近砸了8000多案弄了一個歌仔戲很多人有很多的意見我們先不管如果能把這樣的戲曲資料劇本開放用來訓練AI讓外國朋友、外國AI都能更了解台灣的戲曲這不是很好嗎但是為什麼我們的這些資料都不公開呢到底是不敢被他們看還是怕他們被發現錯誤呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5342.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5356.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我想國科會接下來還會持續進行大圓模型的訓練我們現在只有7B可以開源商用13B只能學研用途資料還是嚴重不足M公司的400B都已經在訓練當中很快要釋出 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5357.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5385.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
為了台灣能夠持續保有文化自主性這個我相信都是跨黨派的意識我們必須要在相關強勢的其他中文語言的模型之下一定要見縫插針相較於豐沛的其他類型的中文資料繁體中文的資料本來就稀少我們一定要跨部會尤其是文化部將資源匯聚台灣才有可能在中文的語言模型AI的下一個世代找到我們台灣自己的定位謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5387.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5390.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好 謝謝葛如君委員 謝謝各位好 接下來請我們的召委柯珍非常謝謝我們的主席那我是不是請文化部跟我們體育署有請文化部跟體育署 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5414.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5416.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
大家好,謝謝兩位。我想我們過去查辦黃牛都是用涉違法第64條第二款,那目前為止我們在很明顯的就是沒有辦法達到這個阻嚇的一個效果,所以我們文化部就說的文創法嘛,那我們體育部去年也說的運動產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5431.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5436.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
在今年1月就來實施可是呢剛剛委員已經非常多提過了即使是這樣子的部分這個法環也提高的行動也提升了那兩位這個身為這個部門的主管者你們認為目前的黃牛問題有解決嗎回答是或不是回報黃牛的問題絕對是比之前黃你們認為有解決那鄭署長呢你認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5454.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5465.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
目前有比較好一點的現象但是依然還是不夠的有比較好但是不夠大家都認為好像有下降了那我看剛有很多委員特別提到你看這個數據來說我們就從文化部的檢舉黃牛區來說的話這個地方的財儲嘛成案率大概是28.9啦然後不正的方法呢成案率不好意思只有4.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5478.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5480.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
請問鄭署長,這個體育署有沒有比照文化部設立檢舉黃牛專區的網站?有,是不是?你覺得好用嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5501.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5528.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
報告委員這部分的確有在署內的主管週報要求我們的產業主要來提供真的是非常難用來我們來看一下有多難用你知道嗎目前你要先找到檢舉黃牛專區的兩種方法比較複雜是從首頁上方的公告專區再點新聞專區再到左邊的資訊總檔才可以看到第二種方法呢就直接在首頁的bar可以看到但是你如果不去特別點它的話呢還要慢慢跑慢慢跑署長你知道跑多少嗎你知道跑多少秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5530.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5544.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我告訴你起碼10秒以上哇塞我們這個資訊的時代大家點3秒鐘都沒有辦法你要10秒鐘所以呢最荒謬的是很多民眾找不到運動賽事去哪裡他直接跑到文化部的檢舉黃牛的專區去檢舉那目前體育署提供的資料就有兩屆這是許議署的宣傳不利還是怎麼樣幫委員這部分我們來優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5552.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5579.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你們當然要優化而且我們真的是誠如剛剛大家所提到的這個次長你們兩位不會這個黃牛檢舉的專區有沒有辦法折成一個平台啊就折成一個平台書發部有沒有辦法有有這樣的相關建議啊書發部你們都還在解你們都好像都好像覺得都可以來做這個城市上面的撰寫我真的覺得如果沒有辦法的話乾脆找最近很紅的那個臺灣地震數報的APP的那個高中生來幫忙啊可能好一點啊會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5581.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5595.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這數法部真的要很努力否則的話真的是沒有辦法好接下來因為大家時間的關係為什麼這個部分大家都覺得剛剛因為轉售二手的票券很多人就在講嘛大家都知道有這些的社團每個人都已經提出非常多這個社團裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5596.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5597.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
請問你們有沒有主動來去對這些所謂的社團有沒有主動來做這樣的事情有沒有主動調查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5617.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5645.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
你們有啊你們還是到底是誰管我都不曉得是文化部大家都認為可不可以下架因為民眾看到這些他就會想要進去可是我沒有主動調查但是警政署我真的要說真的有嗎因為你看看你們通常都是用釣魚的方法對不對通常警政署裡面的警察都用釣魚的方法喬裝成買家然後把抓出這些黃牛問題是警政署你送出法辦之後你覺得法院會不會有判法有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5647.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5665.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
目前我們移送案件都進入增審然後你覺得要怎麼樣嗎?大家最生氣的是我到這個司法院的裁判書系統去查解鎖過去黃牛違反社會法移送的判例你知道嗎?真的是要看運氣有些法官有判罰 有些不判罰原因都是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5666.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5672.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
他說呢雖然黃牛有這個所謂的轉售的意圖但是警員你們的員警因為都是調出人來嘛他們並沒有買售門票的意思所以沒有辦法構成圖利的行為為什麼會是這個樣子那表示你送老半天進去他都用這個方法來不判判那難怪黃牛這麼樣的囂張嘛不是嗎然後呢你那個警政署到底是一個法規的問題還是法官自由行政的問題還是你們偵查的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5694.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5710.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
可不可以回答一下剛剛委員所提到那是一個個案的偵查手法那目前文創法跟運採條例修法過之後對於這樣的行為已經有專法包括鐵路法也是一樣對不起喔 那個屬長我還在特別問你即使有這兩個文創法還有這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5714.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5733.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
目前為止都還是用社會法來辦啦目前為止都用社會法來辦而且文創法跟運發條例不分只有兩件事那到底是因為警政機關都是用社會法來移辦還是到底是怎麼樣因為基層警察告訴我他們已經詐騙案已經分身罰數了他們根本沒有在辦這個因為真的是壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5734.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5734.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們統計到4月29日按照這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5764.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5782.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
文創法第10條之一第三項行政法的部分我們已經移送6件6人6件6人這跟我們所預期的還是不太一樣然後我要特別文化部所有3件你們所有5件到底有幾件送進建署不知道但是我還要看一個大家比較有興趣的剛剛已經有人提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5782.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5787.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
黃牛到戶看到收法收法Bird Pink在我們高雄辦這個演唱會就能夠機器人就可以橫掃一千多張的門票而且原價是八千八還可以救到一萬三到九萬一萬三到九萬而且光是這一位大黃牛你知道嗎他就講過了兩場演唱會很賺兩千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5805.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5807.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
他用機器人掃票掃了一千多然後用外掛的方法大量取票新法最多只能罰三百萬他賺了兩千多萬請問這個法有用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5817.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5817.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
7年還從來沒有被檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5847.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5864.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
一場演唱會賺了兩千多萬而且這個還不斷地還在上演當中所以你怎麼來看待難怪黃牛老心宅宅啊而且你看你用這個方法用不正方法的掃票還罰得比較輕這種現象是非常詭異的你不覺得這個法很奇怪嗎法的部分可能要請主管部會回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5870.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5888.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我覺得這個就是我們今天就一一提出來我想這個整個彙整之後呢可能都要跟我們提出報告還有包括所謂的這個實名制喔畢竟連黃國昌粉絲都高喊實名制但是呢也提出了這個次長剛剛也提到了有這個補助要點但現在成效到底是怎麼樣不好意思次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5890.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5896.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
跟委員報告以今年113年來說已經有28場演唱會會採取實名制對 但是你知道實名制有很多的主辦單位喜歡強調演唱會秒殺來作為他宣傳的賣點為什麼 諷刺的是黃牛的掃票舉動也能夠讓業者達到秒殺的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5909.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5910.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
有什麼風險呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5928.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5929.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
實名制現在看起來是最有效的阻擋黃牛的方式那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5954.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5982.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
實名制沒有因為他沒有辦法是強目前不是強制的對你就是鼓勵的方法而且很多工讀生他的審核一次就能夠入場不像日韓他即使用實名制他還是有非常多的層次所以他可以達到所以這個部分即使要實名制我覺得未來真的對於很多的漏洞很多的細節真的還是要強加的舉例我覺得這個才有辦法不過總而言之我還是希望各部會對於黃牛的阻止我們為什麼今天要排這樣的一個案子就是修了這個法之後黃牛 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5983.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5984.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
謝謝柯志文教委 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6012.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6013.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
文化部次長文化部次長,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6034.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6057.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
市長最近因為這個張學友演唱會大家買不到所以引起非常大的民怨所以黃牛票這個事情大家應該要重視但我看了你們的報告我覺得你們的報告寫得天花亂墜但是跟實務執行有非常大的落差所以我想問你一下你到底了不了解現在執行上遇到的困難第一張學友演唱會你知道他們總共賣幾萬張出去嗎你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6061.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6079.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
你不知道?欸我們張學友演唱會大家名片成這樣你們連這個細項都不知道你知道我們已經收到122件的檢舉案我問他會賣幾萬張出去不要答非所問啦我跟你講啦他總共9場演唱會分兩次賣啦第一次賣前面6場賣了大概五六萬張第二次賣後面3場賣了3萬張每一場都是秒殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6083.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6102.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
很多人上去準備要買就買不到了我想問一下次長你相信嗎你相信每一個人都是他單純自己要看所以等在電腦前面然後一開賣就買不到你覺得有可能嗎這就是沒有踩實名制的很大的缺點這跟實名制沒有關係啦你不要把什麼事情都推給實名制你有沒有了解原因在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6103.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6105.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
為什麼會這樣?不是!錯!主要就是有掃票機器人很嚴重嘛!那這個掃票機器人在哪裡你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6117.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6145.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
你們現在之前抓了一個竹科工程師後來就大肆宣傳好像什麼業績一樣實際上你去看那個竹科工程師他總共就是幾個人用他的那個程式去買而已真正大尾抓不到所以當時你們在發這個新聞的時候下面網友罵翻了都說真正的黃牛都抓不到只會抓這個小的所以背後到底什麼原因要去了解嘛那我跟你講啦實際實務上我們也去問了警政機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6146.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6162.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
譬如說針酒隊的他們到了那些平台要去查為什麼有人可以用程式一下子幾秒鐘把所有的票全部掃完結果警察到了平台警察說我為什麼要配合你除非你找司法機關來搜索否則我不配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6163.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6176.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
實務上就面對到這樣的困難嘛我們都說你們知不知道這個事情所以文化部現在要去找那些平台去問清楚就是說到底背後到底是誰可以這樣子有沒有內部的人在從中 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6179.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6196.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
用這個事情在掃票有沒有去了解有的確這些平台願不願意提供這些使用者的賬號個資的確是一個關鍵以現在來說像FB跟D卡大概就是最不願意提供的也是他們那就是你要解決的問題嘛所以我現在你不是跟我一樣我們現在是把問題跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6198.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6221.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
市長剛一開始還根本不了解狀況還在跟我講說因為沒有實名制這跟實名制有什麼關係這個嚴重度的原因而且實名制你也沒辦法推廣到全部人採用嘛我們現在就要解決這個問題因為是眼前的民怨嘛所以第一個請你文化部去召集相關的機關針對這些平台到底為什麼一開始掃票機器人可以把票全部掃完了這個是一個最大的民怨要去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6222.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6240.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這第一件事情第二件事情我看到你們講說你們要有關於如果是加價轉售基本上你們就看一下檢舉人的要件有沒有符合就直接轉給地方政府對不對因為查辦的單位是地方政府是地方政府對很好文化部就推給地方政府那你有沒有去了解一下地方政府執行的困難有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6241.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6255.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
有我們困難在哪裡包括教育訓練啊包括一般的溝通都一直有在教育訓練就是官樣文章我是問你說你有沒有實際去了解地方政府在執行這件事情所遇到的困難有地方政府的困難關鍵仍然是取得當事人的關鍵的個資 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6256.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6281.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
你就知道嘛因為文化部做的事情是最簡單的你們做的是檢舉人只要有資料有姓名有資料或是他有提供FB或LINE的對話你就覺得完備了嘛你就轉給地方政府但是真正困難的是地方政府他要去收集被檢舉人的資料那我就問啦各縣市政府的文化局他有這個調查權嗎他只能夠收到這個檢舉案他只能發文給 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6282.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6297.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
FB或LINE或是發文給平台問說有沒有相關資料可以提供可是通常FB、LINE或是平台根本不會理文化局嘛他沒有調查權嘛甚至於說他們要去查那個金流金流連金管會也不會理他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6299.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6325.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
警察局也不理他們警察局說各支的部分只有在12種樣態比如說違反生命安全等等樣態的時候才會提供所以文化局在前端一開始要去查被檢舉員資料的時候就查不到那你告訴我說你對於黃牛你的報告寫天花亂墜我們有2000多件有其中600件怎樣怎樣怎樣但具體的困難你們都沒有去協助解決推給地方政府就OK了文化部那麼好做 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6326.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6353.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
跟這些售票平台跟這些主辦單位跟地方政府跟警政署都是密切保持聯繫跟溝通的就是沒有嘛你現在還要跟我變這個欸其實我現在告訴你就是地方政府真實的狀況很多個縣市政府我都去問了啦不用在這邊本事太平啦你以為說你在那邊開的教育訓練喔好像長官一樣過去跟他說你要這樣喔你要這樣你要這樣喔他們忽然間就有調查權了嗎現在實際上就是沒有調查權所以資料取得不了你要去幫忙解決這個問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6354.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6381.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
的確文化單位因為不是警政執法單位不是司法單位所以在調查權上是沒有不管是文化部或文化局都是沒有調查權所以擺爛嗎?不是,所以我們要透過其他的方式那你透過什麼方式?關鍵就是取得票號跟票券的位置我們可以透過售票平台來取得那請問一下我現在就是講說就是要取得就取得不了我們現在把實務的困難告訴你你一直告訴我說關鍵是要取得你現在就取得不了嗎?就是售票平台你要去解決不好意思文化部你們是要去解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6383.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6403.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
你要解決問題你不是跟我們民意代表一樣在那邊討論的東西你要去解決問題你要解決問題你有公權力你是文化部好不好你不是一般的民眾只會把問題點出來這個怎樣這個怎樣這個怎樣不是你要去解決問題我現在問你是你有沒有去解決問題有我們會繼續努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6408.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6408.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
有一個標案我覺得非常奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6429.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6437.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這個112年有一個黃牛檢舉及法律諮詢專案辦公室一年800萬今年呢跟明年1500萬請問一下這個表演是要做什麼內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6440.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6457.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
就是現在我們針對黃牛案件的不管是巡查、不管是分案然後案件的分析、樣態的分析還有法律意見的提供的這個功能這需要1500萬喔?分案我剛剛已經講了你的分案只是把人有檢舉人的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6459.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6477.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
或是他有提供FB line的對話你就轉給地方政府了這個需要1500萬去做他還是要逐項檢視我問過地方政府他說通常你們就是這樣分過來了啦沒有我們是逐項檢視逐項檢視需要那麼多錢喔地方政府都沒有另外一邊預算為什麼文化部要另外一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6479.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6498.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
整個分案跟巡查跟基礎資料調查有沒有完備是由文化部這邊來的對但是第一個案件不多第二個處理的事情也不多為什麼要800萬還有1500萬這個非常奇怪那我們再來看一下上一次還是用最有力標為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6501.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6501.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
有經驗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6516.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6542.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那怎樣有經驗有文化部來決定嘛來我們來看一下上次得標的廠商是誰啊這個叫做常惠律師事務所這個律師事務所呢在說明的地方直接講說因為袁律師大學時代參加謝長廷律師的新文化演習營啊然後啪啪啪講的就是我很少看到這個律師事務所介紹自己跟謝長廷關係那我們來看一下這個得標廠商的主要經歷臺北市法務局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6543.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6562.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
然後不當黨產處理委員會的委員所以這樣子一個案子第一個我聽不出來說他需要有1500萬來做他是18個月一年半一年半一年半上一次是一年嘛一年800萬嘛一年800萬嘛上次10個月10個月800萬就次長剛剛講的內容我不知道為什麼要花800萬來做啦真的不知道我打一個大問號請你具體提供這800萬他服務的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6574.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6581.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
2.為什麼最有利標的得標廠商剛好就是跟謝長廷很有關係還是不當當場處理委員會的委員?有兩家投標公開評選這個是公開招標啦已經有兩家投標了目前還在公開那為什麼是最有利標嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6600.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6602.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
請你會後提供這一個所謂的800萬到底這個廠商做了哪些服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6615.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6635.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
因為就我的了解﹖包括電話接聽﹖對,就我的了解﹖這個所謂的800萬的內容﹖分案這些﹖或者是什麼提供法律見解﹖不需要到800萬﹖不需要到800萬﹖然後得標廠商就是跟民進黨這麼好的人﹖這個外界都會提出質疑﹖而且今年你還增加預算﹖直接變成﹖因為時間變﹖對,那為什麼變長了﹖為什麼要拉長﹖那會不會就是同一家得標﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6640.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6640.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
謝謝葉元智委員接下來我們請郭育晴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6673.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6677.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
主席早有請文化部次長好我們請文化部次長委員好市長早安我想大家都提到很多相關跟黃牛有關的一些問題那一般民眾真的想要進到表演的場地去看一下表演或是看一下賽事其實真的也比不過那些用大型的外掛的一個系統在大量掃貨的這樣掃票的一個黃牛 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6702.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6715.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個部分其實是在上個禮拜一個寫程式的一個竹科工程師他落網但是他的確在整個所有的調查過程當中其實也點到了目前整個所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6716.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6728.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
受票的一個機制我們出現了一些漏洞跟一些問題其實大部分都是在講的就是在比網速網速跟系統其實沒有辦法透過我們來看一下那個整個所有我們在買票的那個過程包含我們要輸入所謂的驗證碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6732.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6753.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
但是這個系統當中其實售票系統當中他能不能夠透過所謂的驗證碼來辨認出這個到底是不是真人但是他又沒有辦法去阻止這個機器人去搶票他覺得非常不公平所以他寫了這樣的一個程式雖然他漠網但是他漠網其實真正違法的一個原因其實是在於他違照文書因為他可能用了很多人的這個個資的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6755.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6775.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那針對這個部分其實我們的訴發部其實在數位簽章法通過之後除了用身分證被冒用的這個狀況有可能會減少這個的確也是但是是不是能夠在整個所有的售票的系統當中能夠改善所謂的驗證碼是不是真人這樣子的一個問題這個部分你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6776.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6785.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我想這部分我們可以跟書發部跟警政署來協談看可以怎麼強化這些事情對因為書發部有代表好我想這個問題其實也蠻大的喔因為這的確有我們有政策他們有對策我們書發部怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6801.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6822.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
好,就跟委員剛剛提到一樣,我們電子簽章碼成本委員會通過了之後會發布實施因為它是有電子簽章跟數位簽章的所以它已經是有第三方的這個憑證單位發的所以它已經如果要用數位簽章就已經證實它是本人了應該就我們在初步的構想是驗證碼的需要性可能我們就可以來討論了 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6824.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6844.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那為什麼其實他們的這個網絡上黃牛的猖獗的行為其實還是沒有辦法被強力的遏止我覺得是雖然我們的這個文創法其實在去年我們的6月其實已經開始有做一些調整跟修法的部分這個是利益是良善的啦但是問題是對於黃牛真的拿他們一點皮條都沒有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6845.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6860.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我們來看一下我們自己本身在這個第10條之一有講到以不正當的取得票券以及所謂的加價轉售的一個行為加以規範但是其實在另外在我們的明確的規定當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6861.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6881.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
只要是超過票面的金額跟定價的販售但我們後來其實看到有很多人說那不對啊我只是為了郵寄所以我超過了那個票面我們定出來的是只要超過票面就應該可以檢舉就覺得是黃牛問題是到真正的真實的狀況其實有的不是黃牛這個部分我們的標準不一啊這個怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6882.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6900.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這個部分是這樣在加價的部分它的關鍵是它的加價是加在票面價格還是加在票價上還是說是第三方獲得剛剛委員提到的油資、交通費因為販售這個二手票而增加了這個費用它基本上因為是第三方所以不會計入這個票價所以它的確要透過個案來做認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6901.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6911.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我們現在其實在檢舉黃牛的部分其實大部分都是所謂的被動的接到案子檢舉的對不對我們並沒有主動的去出擊為什麼我們來看一下整個所有的檢舉的一個流程包含我的座位區必填包含我選位的位置必填但現在黃牛其實沒有這麼笨喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6924.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6935.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
他其實都會叫一般人我把你先把錢匯給我我之後等到你拿到票而且我只告訴你我大概是哪一個我們來看一下這個對話這個對話是真的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6939.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6954.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
除了炸雞以外可是我們真的拿黃牛沒有辦法嗎我們在整個所有的檢舉的流程是這麼的繁複我們怎麼期待他們都成案呢沒有辦法找到本人沒有辦法找到賣票的人所以這是為什麼一定要座位號因為他買票的時候會有一個買票的紀錄嘛所以你要拿到這個座位號或者是流水編號你才有辦法取得買票人的資料這是一個關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6963.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6982.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這是關鍵但也是最大的一個問題嘛也就是說我根本不知道買票的人是誰我根本沒有給你一個正確的細節所以我們的成案率才會這麼這麼的低啊我們來看一下文化部以台北市政府為例啦那你看一下整個所有的台北市政府上個月其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6983.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7008.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們的議員苗博雅他也質詢了這個臺北市政府的一個教育局那個文化局他提到10個月下來開罰率只有1%總共檢舉的案件753件當中只有8件開罰這中間到底出了什麼狀況就是他們基本上他掌握不到整個黃牛的一個資訊那這個部分我們怎麼跨部會來做解決啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7009.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7023.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這個部分的確是受限於這個整體來說要裁罰就是罪行法定所以你一定要取得確實的這個當事人的資料才能夠進行裁罰這也是整個在黃牛如果用數位的方式來進行搶票的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7024.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7048.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
尤其是現在其實很多的表演的場合是在我們的主要的六都那麼以台北市、高雄市其實在城岸率其實它就有一個很大明顯的一個落差那當然台北市政府的一個我們說的他說能就是緣額的不夠這個緣額的部分其實是台北市政府他們可以增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7049.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7073.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
以台北市政府人力這麼多的一個狀況我不相信員額會分配不了但是我相信文化局其實在跟文化部這邊我們訂立這樣子的一個修法的一個整個所有的關鍵之後是不是沒有一個統一的告訴他們我們的一個統一的準則是什麼讓他們真的沒有方法所以成案率只有1%只有8件開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7076.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7095.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
跟委員報其實在方法上我們大概就是一再的協調跟做說明因為他大概有幾個關鍵比如說你要售票平台要提供買售人的這個資料你要跟警方確認這個個資的真實性要跟電信業者調手機或者甚至是知道他的銀行帳號等等那像這些方法他都是可能調查的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7096.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7121.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以這等於就是要跨部會我們要再次的跨部會甚至中央跟地方其實就文化部、文化局其實我們要統一啊那統一的這個平台我們是第一我們在簡化所謂的檢舉的流程當中是不是能夠掌握到所謂的黃牛真實的身份這個部分包含金款會他是用誰的卡是用誰的身份到底是誰去買票誰去掃票我們才能夠掌握到真實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7126.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7128.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那這個部分是不是應該要來解決啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7131.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7159.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
主要是它還是牽涉到法院的依據因為它算是一個比較強力要求人民的權利事項等於是你要求他交出這些個資所以這個部分所以我們才說要用主動來代替被動的檢舉因為我們在檢舉的過程當中那個流程這麼的繁複其實到最後就變成所謂的不成案的成立可是在主動的調查裡面因為也沒有個資因為就算他在社群上刊登但你也沒有辦法取得那刊登者 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7159.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7181.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
有太多的檢舉的案件到最後是用補件不全作為結案的結果所以這也是讓我們覺得這個黃牛沒有辦法完全被檢舉的一個原因好那因為今天時間的關係最後我再用一點點時間我們講到這個文策院其實我們支持這個文創的一個產業的貸款的部分那跟著所謂的這個中央銀行 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7182.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7211.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
在我們3月21日他決定升席辦碼對於很多的文創、戲劇產出的業者來講他們包含如果是300萬、3000萬的一個貸款光升席辦碼每個月就要增加3125元那這個部分其實我們提供的這樣子的一個有人來陳情的這樣一個狀況我們是不是可以建議我們的文化部這個地方是不是可以比照所謂的就學貸款甚至青年創業 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7212.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7212.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7228.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7228.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
謝謝委員謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7250.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7261.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好 謝謝我們的郭玉琴委員接下來我們請吳佩奕委員那本席宣布我們在陳秀寶委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息5分鐘 謝謝好謝謝主席 我請文化部次長好 次長委員好次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7277.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7301.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
台灣的黃牛猖獗黃牛票取締不易這個其實這幾年在台灣大家討論很久了所以也才去年也啟動了立法院跟文化部跟行政院一起努力來完成了文創法的修法那在修法上路之後今天這個專題報告很重要的是我們想要了解自從我們修法上路之後目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7302.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7325.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我國對於黃牛票取締的成效如何有沒有改善遇到哪些困難遇到這些困難我們是還需要透過持續的修法還是在行政層面我們能夠來解決這些問題所以我首先想要請教次長的是在你們的報告裡面我有看到有關於我們黃牛票在六都 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7326.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7333.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
在查辦的情形因為目前我們文化部是有一個檢舉專區那當文化部這裡收到檢舉案件的時候我們是用分案的方式來轉交給地方政府來進行後面的調查嗎對 因為它是演唱會的屬地調查所以如果是在哪個縣市舉辦我們就會分案到哪個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7348.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7357.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那我們總共收到的檢舉案件是多少件有2000多件如果是符合就是在我們的範圍裡的是2105件2105件但是你們這個受理案件數顯然不是2000多件因為你們會先進行初步的 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7368.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7369.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
2105件,我們轉發給台北市政府的案件是多少件? |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7387.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7412.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
臺北市就是271件我們收到的臺北市文化局提供的資料是由文化部轉交過來的是753件753件裡面臺北市文化局再去進一步第一步的這個調查之後最後受理的案件數是271件所以我想請教一下從文化部收到檢舉案件到分案到地方政府這整個的流程是怎麼來進行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7414.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7426.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
主要是如果是資料不起還是由他們結案所以部分的所以案件算進去以後還是由臺北市政府來做結案所以他們那些所謂要見不起的案件其實還是會有進對所以實際上我們轉交給臺北市的是753件那經過臺北市去調查有些他認為說這個因為資料不起權結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7434.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7437.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
有些他認為這個資料沒有辦法再調查結案有些他認為這個其實並沒有不合理的這個加價他也結案所以最後受理的案件數是271件所以請教一下像我們分案給高雄市的我們分案下去是分了幾案 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7453.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7467.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
受理的是152件是但我們分我們從文化部分案下去的是幾案不好意思我讓同仁稍微查一下手邊有沒有數字391件391件嘛好所以我會希望你們再提供完整的這個數字因為我們會想要知道從民眾檢舉案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7471.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7479.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
到最後裁罰的案件這個比例是多少因為以台北市來說我們這樣算下來台北市民眾檢舉的753案經過文化部初步的這個調查之後翻給台北市文化局調查最後裁罰的是8件也就是不到1%所以我要了解各個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7491.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7492.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
在高雄的部分因為整個處理的程序比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7519.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7522.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這個我知道說有些縣市例如高雄市他是有成立這個打牛的專案小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7537.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7557.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
對 他們會有專案的方式來做執行文化主管機關跟這個警察機關一起共組一個專案小組那其他縣市不一定有這樣子的專案小組所以呢我是建議我們文化部因為實際上法規上路之後我們的執行層面在地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7558.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7581.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那文化部我們是主管機關則無旁貸我們應該要來協助地方政府各縣市之間有一些做法可以來進行交流例如大家一直在講的這個只是加價轉售警察局可不可以來查依照我們文創法的修法當然可以都洽詢警察機關來協助嘛像我看這個我們高雄的左營分局 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7582.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7589.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
演唱會現場都到現場去查有沒有現場黃牛在現場兜售這個不是刑罰喔有沒有加價轉售也在現場查當然可以查嘛我們法規給你們這樣法律的工具行政層面看你們如何去運用那今天是不是這個警政署也有來現場我請警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7609.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7610.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
目前本署除了依據這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7627.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7643.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
裝法相關規定之外特別是第10條之一的第三項刑事法部分會進行調查那另外在行政法令的部分我們本與行政協助的部分如果文化機關有提出要求要我們派員到現場來協助我們的派員 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7645.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7659.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那文化機關向你們提出要求要來查我們剛講的就是說這個買票人的身份是不是本人身份進一步的查核他可能涉及到要去對他的購票時候的匯款記錄相關的資料可能需要跟銀行來調資料這部分警察局過去有沒有協助的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7668.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7677.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
有關個人資料的提供會有相關法令的規定那如果是行政法令的部分我們在行政執行法的寫入上 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7682.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7706.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
就文創法上路之後依你的了解地方政府文化局收到檢舉案件初步去查了之後發現有這個買票人確實有這樣的記錄但是進一步要去來調他後面的匯款記錄信用卡記錄等等的請求地方警察局來協助的時候有沒有協助過的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7707.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7736.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
基本上文創法裡面只有第10條之一第3項是屬於刑事法那按照刑事數碼及各執法的相關規定在這個這位是我們警政階來我今天不是在跟你討論法是我是討論執行層面是因為我們今天討論專案報告就是要了解你們執行成效你有沒有去了解過各地縣市政府的警察局就文創法上路之後文化局請求他們協助有沒有協助過的案件有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7737.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7757.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
協助的案件其實是有有嘛 對不對對有那代表可不可以可以啊臺北市政府的情況就是這個樣子是文化局收到這個檢舉案件去查這個黃牛這個購票人身份證資料、姓名都有了但是因為當事人說那不是我本人我是被冒名的 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7758.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7780.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
但是究竟是不是冒名不是當事人說的算嗎對吧我們執法機關要進一步去調查資料嘛文化局請求台北市警察局來幫忙查資料跟銀行調資料有沒有協助有喔但是呢現在的問題是什麼有些案件警察局協助有些案件警察局不協助究竟是哪些案件要協助哪些案件不協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7781.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7793.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我希望我們文化部跟我們的警政署要去了解地方政府現在在實務層面整個黃牛查緝取締的流程要有一致性 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7797.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7821.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們現在已經有法了過去因為我們法源不夠完備所以很多地方我們在模糊地帶我們現在已經有讓你們去查緝黃牛票的法有法源依據所以我不希望是一個市政府裡面有兩套標準我更不希望看見我們也不能允許是一個台灣有兩套標準有些地方政府可以查有些地方政府不能查這叫什麼法 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7824.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7841.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我們這樣沒有辦法跟民眾交代所以請文化部跟警政署就我們目前各縣市地方政府查緝黃牛票的執行狀況去進一步具體的去了解建立一個一套的標準可不可以做到好的好 謝謝謝謝委員好好 謝謝吳委員接下來我們請陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7854.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7856.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
陳秀寶委員質詢完畢之後,我們就休息5分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7867.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7886.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
市長早其實打擊黃牛票不管是公部門還是大家民眾這是大家的共識那我們教育委員會的委員包括本席也都有提文創法的修法的版本在去年的5月三讀通過那到現在將近一年也是剛好在這個時候來檢視這段時間的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7889.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7904.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那根據文化部這邊提供的資料來看到4月15日截止對於不正方式取得票券的部分呢131件然後加價轉售的案件檢舉案件有2105件在刑事要件齊備的件數609件裡面有300件是已經調查完畢309件在調查中 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7913.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7930.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
但是呢在300件的這個調查完畢的這個案件裡面只有裁罰30件比例只有10%喔次長這個比例這個差異可以說明一下你看這樣的比例民眾會不會覺得說根本就是雷聲大雨點小公部門就是說也並不是真的很積極的在處理應該不是應該是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7934.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7959.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
因為檢舉進來的案件很多他可能沒有真的發生交易就是說他有這樣的行為但是他並沒有真的發生交易所以他的查查可能到後來沒有辦法有採取的對象等等那或者是有其他在調查裡面發現他其實不見得是真的加價譬如說他是小額的然後他是代購的行為或者是他是必要的費用等等我想會有很多的樣態導致他最後真正能夠裁罰的件數比較低 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7961.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7975.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
這個部分其實本席並不是重點說在於說要裁法的件數要多好像在拼績效一樣但是這個部分就是一個態度對我們對於恰器黃牛票的這個態度接下來這邊我再請一下一下次長臉書上很多社團是說讓票換票的這樣的社團那本席上去看了一下這些社團很多天文都還宣稱是保證有票 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7988.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7998.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
所以很多網友去留言是很不滿啊其中也是有討論說為什麼保證有票你們是怎麼做到保證有票那或者說這個是不是應該要符合有錢可以來檢舉這樣的言論那文化部你們覺得說保證有票這個有沒有黃牛票的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8005.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8009.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
市長當然就是說我們覺得他有這樣的嫌疑但他查他成不成立或說如何查怎麼查這個部分還是有一些技術上的問題喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8029.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8047.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那財閥比例只有10%這個造成民眾的疑慮我剛剛有強調過其實我沒有硬性規定說我們一定要提高這個財閥的這個件數我是尊重說文化部這邊以及地方縣市政府的財量的權限但是保證有票這樣的言論呢我也覺得說文化部應該有你們的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8048.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8049.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
代購費用的部分是這樣因為代購費 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8066.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8095.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
的前提是他是一個約定行為嘛就是我跟你約好你幫我買所以第一個他可能要事前發生才叫做代購所以並不能是事後的那個就叫做販售了那基於在販售的這個部分如果他販售的加價的金額是說他是必要金額必要金額的指的意思就是說譬如他是由第三方收受的比如說他的郵寄費用他的交通費用因為要交付嘛這個費用我們會被認為說他是一個合理的費用範圍但超出這個費用基本上都是算加價的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8096.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8099.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
市長沒關係這個部分我可以再跟你們來討論說對這個的認定或者說在這個地方我們怎麼去讓民眾不再去懷疑我們文化部是不是真的有打擊黃牛票的決心那在我們在文創法修法過後呢即便說你們今天在你們報告裡面而且你在答詢中都覺得說黃牛票的這個情況是有改善的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8118.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8118.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
韓國是統一票價搭配 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8147.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8148.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
請教次長,您覺得我們目前業界所採取的主流售票機制有沒有可能變更成日本的抽籤制? |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8166.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8171.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
跟委員說我們很羨慕啦就是我們覺得如果售票平台跟主辦單位願意採取這些方式其實才會根本的解決黃牛問題所以其實您也是支持的如果說我們技術上是可以的話對就是說現在的台灣的問題就是說現在目前其實沒有強制性的法源所以我們都只能用勸導的然後用輔導的跟他們洽談的但是他們要不要採取因為他採取各種的方式他會增加不同的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8194.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8202.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
您在這邊為什麼會提到說我們要改變我們主流售票的機制也是因為有新聞上就是這個祖科工程師他自己開發的這個軟體就是讓民眾可以跟他所謂的讓民眾跟黃牛站在同一個跑艇一起來搶票用魔法對抗魔法這樣的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8213.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8221.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那他也說到他認為說．票業者應該採實名制加抽票制．這樣才能真正的杜絕黃牛那在這邊本席並不認同他所謂的什麼以魔法對抗魔法這樣的論點但是他的核心問題我覺得他提到他也看法也覺得實名制加抽票制才能真正的杜絕黃牛這樣的說法是我們應該要去思考跟做改變的那這邊再一次請教文化部 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8239.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8241.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
如果說我們支持這個臺灣主流的這個售票模式可以真的朝著實名制跟抽票制這個制度來走的話我們有怎樣的規劃可以來輔導或者說來跟業者討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8255.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8275.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
如果要做這個真的要改成實名自家抽籤這一類的新的制度的話它主要如果是強制的話它還是需要一個法源不然我們就只能用現在的方式就是說跟售票平台溝通跟主辦單位溝通但是最後要不要採取仍然是取決於主辦單位這是目前的一個困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8276.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8302.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這個部分我也希望說你們可以努力的去跟業者這邊來做協調做溝通因為如果說真的要讓我們的民眾有一個比較公平的機會來參與這樣的演出黃牛票的存在真的是會讓大家覺得說是不是公務部門你們這邊執法不力你們就是對這個部分沒有重視那在這邊我也要因為訴報部你不用回答我但是我請我這邊要要求如果說現行的售票業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8303.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8313.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
他們因為他們的系統很容易被這樣的城市入侵的話表示說他們的治安的這個系統呢就是不夠強固所以這邊我也希望說我們說法部這邊可以協助這些售票業者來強化他們的整個的安全的防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8320.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8325.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那在這邊我要求文化部就是說針對我們業者的售票系統的強化以及售票模式的轉變這部分希望文化部、體育署、數發部你們這邊應該跨部會的合作然後跟業者來協調能夠有共識希望共同來推進我國售票模式的轉變以及強化我們的售票系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8341.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8360.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那所以我要要求我希望說文化部、體育署跟抒發部呢可以提供給本席關於剛才的這個建議可行性空間的這個書面說明喔我們也要展現我們打擊黃牛票的決心好嗎好的謝謝主席再給我一點點時間我請一下那個體育署長署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8368.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8376.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
4月25日的新聞關於全中運有游泳選手他在熱身的時候不慎跳水那直接被禁賽是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8378.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8387.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
報告委員這部分他是在現場被取消資格但是他的競賽這部分是程序不完備所以我們沒有不會把他競賽所以那一場的比賽資格他被取消但是事後以後參加的比賽並沒有被禁沒有那當時教練也反說說這台灣獨創一般國外並沒有規定說一定要坐之下水是嗎國外有這樣的規定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8402.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8418.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
報告委員國際的規則是講不能在那個場域去做跳水的動作但是要求要以腳先入水的方式進行那協會這邊他把它擴大解釋成就是任何形式的跳水都把它算是取消資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8419.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8441.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我們看一下比賽應該遵守的事項他是說全面禁止任何形式的跳水那為什麼這樣規定是因為說避免發生肢體碰撞有意外跟危險那依照競賽規程第36條來辦理那我們看一下你們的競賽規程第36條寫得非常一視同仁甚至沒有針對違規的情節重大於大小來做不同處分這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8442.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8446.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這次的處分不可逆本席這邊要問的就是說其實每一位運動選手他可以去參加比賽他就是已經經過了無數的刻苦的練習訓練之後才有取得這個資格如果說我們動不動的就是這樣子就是競賽那其實他的運動生涯可能有就這樣子就終止了 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8467.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8482.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
所以真的本案這邊本席要求體育署我們應該前面的檢視競賽規則規程章程應該做出適當的比例調整跟處分的標準我不去探討說今天它違規的這個本身但是請解 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8484.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8486.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
好 謝謝署長 謝謝委員好 謝謝 那我們現在就先休息五分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8517.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8517.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8820.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8821.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
林依菁委員王次長、鄭署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8839.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8841.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
去年我們陸續修了文創法跟那個運產條例那所以今天特別來跟討論一下就是說去年修這個文創法跟運產條例的時候通過修法時我記得有幾個附帶決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8858.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8882.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
其中一項負債決就是說如果賣方以原價轉售收取手續費或者是寄送費在合理範圍內是不構成加價轉售的那想請問說所謂的合理範圍是否已經明定了這個價格範圍跟所謂的判斷的指引有沒有提供相關的這個資料給相關的單位做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8883.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8909.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
跟委員回覆就價格的本身我們沒有訂定一個固定的一個%數或者是價格主要的原因是因為說在修法時間的期間裡面當時是說我們一開始提案是10%視為合理定價但後來這一點受到很大的反對就認為說那就等於承認黃牛有10%的空間所以把這個%數就拿移除那我們現在的判斷基準就是說這些所謂的合理費用指的就是你是因為要販售這個票券 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8910.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8911.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8937.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8956.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
喔好那想請教就是說剛剛柯貞昭委有提到就是檢舉黃牛專區的問題喔真的說真的基本的網頁喔我們民眾基本上一定會從Google去搜尋那如果你Google搜尋檢舉黃牛專區喔出現的一定是文化部 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8956.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8967.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
新設立的藝文票券黃牛票的檢舉專區做得很完整我覺得民眾一看就是一目了然點哪裡就可以查詢什麼可是我們反過來看運動票券的檢舉專區搜尋結果就不是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8975.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8994.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
還往下滑在間接滑到從動資券相關的網頁裏面再去找到檢舉專區而且這個網路的用戶這個體驗都不是那麼好那雖然有檢舉跟這個查詢的進度的按鈕可是真的沒有義文票券那樣的清楚明瞭所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8996.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9011.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
剛剛柯昭偉也有指點你那我是想具體請教您說要優化那你優化跟改善的這個進程何時包委員我想這個部分應該在6月底之前應該可以完全改善了 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9012.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9036.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
6月底前好那就期待6月底前有跟文化部一樣的這個明瞭易懂的這個頁面進去好那本席認為就是說打擊黃牛我們應該要跨部會來共同執行剛剛柯昭偉也有提到說其實我們既然藝文票券跟運動票券都有檢舉的專區那我們是不是可以進步思考把兩個統合在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9037.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9061.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那我覺得當然在所謂的這個行政院會的時候其實你們都是可以拿出來提因為我知道這不是非文化部或非這個教育部可以來處理可是如果有一個統一的檢舉專區的網頁點進去再依照說是藝文票券還是運動票券那這樣子的話我覺得對民眾要搜尋要檢舉真的會比較容易對不對跟委員說明主要是因為我們兩個部會所 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9065.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9091.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
針對的票券的形式不同法源依據也不同所以整合在一個專區恐怕會有一些混亂跟質疑就是說那它運動票券為什麼不是用藝文票券的標準或者藝文票券為什麼會不用運動票券標準我覺得是恐怕在民眾的適用上會有一些疑慮但是我覺得可以做的事情比較是其實現在委員們也都在談就是說這個部分可不可以有一個整合性的專法型的規範來規範黃牛 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9093.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9116.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
其實黃牛除了藝文跟運動就是說不要分別放在兩個法裡面因為現在以這樣的方式來說遲早都會出現部會在審查尤其執行單位都是在地方政府會出現那個執法跟判準上的落差那這個也是我們現在最警覺在防範的但是我覺得就根本之道來說也許我們更可願意支持一個專法的誕生的這些做一個總和 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9119.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9119.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9149.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9152.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那時候就是開放1.3萬張票來索取可是那時候就有很多被搶空然後黃牛拿來轉賣炒到一張四五千塊那時候媒體爆得很大那像大巨蛋這樣的測試賽這麼龐大的零元票券 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9168.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9194.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
當然我覺得這是千年一遇的狀況不長可是我覺得我們也要有制定一定的法規來不容黃牛從中來干預所以我們如果來看到現在的包括我們文化賽事也一樣文化票券也一樣當然文化票券我有請教文化部文化部是說零元票券狀況你們比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9196.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9197.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
以文創法10支1條來進行裁罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9225.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9251.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
是那第二種狀況就是整場不收費就是剛向委員提到像大巨蛋那種情況那因為當時立法的時候他維護的法益是市場交易公平性是藝文票券市場交易公平性作為文創法11條修法的法益基礎所以那時候就沒有把所謂的零元放進來那現在如果在藝文裡面有零元的狀況我們可以來做個案的討論那再來討論說是不是有需要修法來做做跟上因為目前來說藝文的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9254.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9282.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
表演活動的演出比較少用零元的方式啦然後我們主要保護的其實也是這個這些議員票券交易的這個市場秩序所以差異是在這裡是啦我覺得因為當初我們就是我們有用所謂的這個因為我們零元票券通常是公關票嘛所以那時候我們沒有想到說類似像這種大巨蛋測試賽這樣可是我的意思是說沒有規範到齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9283.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9311.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那我們那時候好像是那是改採行政措施去處理嗎對 因為他就會被取消資格就是我查到他也可以檢舉檢舉他就會取消他的入場資格啦對對對對這一些方式用行政方法去做可是這樣子的話我們就會反下來看這樣好像懲罰消費者而不是懲罰賣的人你懂我意思嗎就是說我拿到這張票然後我要進場我被取消因為我是消費端因為我還是要跟大家說最好就是不要買黃牛票 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9313.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9320.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
當然您說要弄個專法我贊成可是在專法還沒有出來之前是不是要還是要對於在文創法裡面對於零元票券的情形是不是要有一些防範跟作為我們來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9341.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9342.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
接下來我們請范雲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9375.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9378.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
次長,針對黃牛票的部分,我有想要追問的。我想去年我們修法之後,其實黃牛房制已經有很大的進步,現在我們討論的都是進入實際執行後的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9399.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9423.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
剛剛已經有委員問過那目前就是這是你們的黃牛檢舉專區可以看到檢舉要求的資訊非常的仔細包含這個入場序號跟票券編號流水號那我認為這個因為他要求到入場序號跟票券編號的這個流水號那這其實會讓就是檢舉人如果沒有實質買到票 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9425.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9453.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
他其實就會缺乏資訊那我們看一下就是你們提供的資料行事要件不齊備的案件就超過一千件總共有1640件那就有超過一千件那我回來看一下我們當初的修法的就是我們原本的這個第十之一條第二款對定的是教藝文表演票券已超過票面金額或定價販售者按票券章數懲罰碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9455.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9467.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
販售者就只要販售這個行為就完成了犯罪行為並不需要到購買可是我們現在要求的檢舉要件我發現是你們自己的行政規範檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法的第三項要求檢舉人必須要具備座位號碼、入場序號、票券編號等 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9478.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9505.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
所以好像有點是自己把這個檢舉的要件訂的太嚴格不知道次長是不是同意我這個分析根文報告為什麼一定要有票券的號碼或流水號的關鍵是要取得購票者的資料因為如果沒有這個號碼的話我們就不會知道是誰購買了這張票所以它其實有確認票券的意思那如果我們不知道是誰購買了這張票那個掃票型的黃牛就沒有辦法從這裡來獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9507.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9507.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
．4月29日及5月2日 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9526.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9555.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
市長 我知道你的用意是要這個購買的事實成立之後那才能夠有明確的這個販售的資料那可是我覺得這裡有個矛盾我們叫人檢舉黃牛可是檢舉人必須實質上買了黃牛票等於參與這個犯罪行為他才能檢舉那可是回頭看我們當時在這個立法院討論的時候我們的文字上就只有販售然後張數 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9556.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9574.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
所以我們並沒有說要購買行為完成那這部分我不知道次長的這個法律的解讀是因為操作面你們需要這樣才能處理還是操作面我們可以跟速發部或是NCC再來合作那這部分是不是可以去研議一下好嗎就我們不用這麼快有定案 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9575.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9592.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
就是了解這個部分好嗎?可以可以那謝謝次長那我想這個部分就因為就是那另一個部分剛剛其實有委員問過了金管會就是也說會跟你們跨部會處理嗎?那我這邊是不是那我請金管會的代表今天有嗎?詢問一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9601.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9615.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
今天提供的報告說可以依照稅捐基徵法第30條、涉救法第幾條可不可以講一下依照稅捐基徵法第30條跟涉救法是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9616.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9632.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
因為現在銀行法規定是說要調查銀行的金融資料的話必須以法律明文規定對我們舉的例子只是說這兩個是現在行政機關有在調查的法律的規定給文化部參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9633.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9656.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
其實我們就已經有修法規定了我覺得金管會好像消極了一些那這一次的你們提供的報告既然就可以比照稅捐激增法第30條還有這個受救法這部分是不是能夠更積極配合處理一下好嗎?就是因為我們其實實質上修過了這就是犯受這個就是一個犯罪行為而且有法律的條文在 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9657.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9681.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
目前的法律是還不夠到這個調查資料的位階目前的法律還不夠那如果法律還不夠那你們協調就可以處理不是協調我們是依法行政一定是按照法律對呀那就是我們的法律夠了你才有可能協調嘛所以不是法律不夠的問題是金管會太消極好嗎那因為你剛剛也沒有跟我說出到底是這個稅捐積增法跟涉救法第幾個詳細內容那顯然你還不夠熟悉那請那個金管會積極點因為還有問題要問請回謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9687.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9708.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
次長,剛剛也有委員有問過了就是現在至少根據苗博雅議員的公開質詢高雄跟台北市就是實質上開罰率差異很大那所以是不是次長針對開罰率差異這麼的大執行面也給我們委員會一個報告就是說如何改善好嗎?好 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9710.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9731.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
好,那我想這個部分就是檢舉的門檻那最後我還想就是如何落實我們通過的黃牛條款這部分需要中央跟地方合作那另外呢民間團體還反映一件事就是免費的票券運產條例跟文創條例我們在修的時候條文文字的確不一樣那可是我清楚記得當時部長史哲有回答我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9734.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9735.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
最後一件事呢實名制我也 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9762.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9792.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
肯定文化部有依照當時大家的期待有補助要點而且在施行當中那現在有個相關的問題就是實名制的集聚式退票方案看起來就是還是有改善的空間上次我們因為臺灣的確發生這個事就是有相關的事件然後中國樂團萬能青年旅店來臺灣其實就是使用這個比較適合實名制的集聚式退票方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9792.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9813.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
可是我們看了一下退票的內容發現臺灣的規定還是相當的嚴格就是多少天以前然後當天的話幾乎拿不到錢等等那很多民團不是很多民團民團反應這樣子對消費者權益沒有辦法保障那後來我們了解如果參考韓國公平交易委員會的消費者糾紛解決標的的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9816.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9834.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
他們對退費天數的標準相對寬鬆扣款%也比較嚴格有給消費者更多的保障甚至在演出前10天還有全額退費的選項我想這是韓國的公平交易委員會制定出來的解決標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9836.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9858.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
登記在你們是在藝文表演卷定型化契約裏面有不得記載事項中有明確的規定是不是可以請次長也參考一下韓國的方案能不能研議精進急劇式退票的方案更保護消費者的權益一些呢跟委員報告主要是這我們可以來研議不過主要是因為在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9859.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9878.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
退票的方案的4個方案裡面的選擇權是由主辦單位來做決定那第二件事就是說在選擇退票方案的時候他還是有消費者跟這個業者之間的橫評問題因為雙方保障一方另外一方勢必有損失所以大概是要在這兩者之間取得一定的橫評 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9879.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9879.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
張雅琳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9907.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9908.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
主席好 我們有請次長次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9917.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9940.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
主要也是想要來延續就是說前面已經其實有委員也是有提到這個代詢就是說這黃牛票我們現在在講黃牛的定義是說超過面額或是定價販售等等等等好了可是我們現在其實在網路上面其實非常可以找到這種代詢代購代刷代買從後端加價的方式來避免掉就是說前端增加這個票面金額的問題然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9942.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9967.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
同時說因為他今天是袋買袋尋所以他一定就會有非常動力非常強的動力一定要去買到票所以就會可能還是會用城市去掃票那我想問一下就是說我們現在針對這樣的情形有沒有一些因應呢第一個就是我們並不認為這樣的方法是代購因為代購就是假代購就是說你說你是代購但事實上你其實是事後約定並不是事前就約定 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9968.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9996.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
第2個就是說即使是這樣他只要用不正程式他仍然觸犯的是刑罰所以在這兩件事上我們都要一直在倡導說這樣子不叫做代購大家不要以為這樣子就可以規避這個法律好那我想問一下就是說因為我覺得現在我們在這些像去年的所有的文創法裡面其實也有講到就是說我們是可以檢舉它嘛可是問題是說我們必須要去提供第4點裡面必須要去提供所謂的這個LOG歷程記錄可是一般來說民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9997.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9997.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10027.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10028.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
其實是可以的,我們會如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10044.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10071.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
檢舉其他的資料都有比如說你也有票券號碼這些你只是沒有Log的記錄我們會去向購票平台索取OK好那我想這一點我們真的還要加強做跟民眾做說明因為像我自己本身就是一個資深的追星族但是我其實坦白說我常常看到這些東西那我少買不到票可是我卻不知道到底該怎麼處置所以我想自我相信有非常多的這個粉絲啊跟民朋友們其實都不知道這個問題都不知道可以這樣子就可以做一個檢舉那再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10072.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10096.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
因為其實現在最近有一個新聞就是說我們要開放這個兩岸的觀光那有很多的中國歌迷都希望可以來台灣追星那其實在現在沒有法規去防止境外掃票的城市境外掃票這樣的行為之下我國歌迷的這個權益可能就會受到影響那我不曉得說我們是否可以再加強這個實名制的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10096.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10116.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
例如說有多大的場館就可以來做實名制因為剛剛其實前面有非常多的委員都有提到就是日韓的這些基礎上面就是前端就有一些機制可能是抽票也好然後入場的時候還有個實名制我們是不是可以用這樣子的方法來加強來保障我們的歌迷的這個權益呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10116.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10141.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
各位報告這一點我們非常願意來做研議因為的確黃牛這個法規能夠處理的範圍可能目前來看會有限只要牽涉到境外的部分我們幾乎是沒有辦法來做處理所以如果有這樣的疑慮的話我們來研議看可以進一步可以怎麼強化實名制對那我想了解那大概研議大概多久會有一個結果呢我們可以一個月後一個月內給 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10143.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10147.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
委員我們研議的一個初步的報告好謝謝謝謝次長那再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10151.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10179.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
因為其實我們現在因為像我也知道有一些韓星他們來台灣辦一些見面會他們基本上就是會有一些大型的主辦單位來做可是他們一直都沒有做這個實名制那我想了解我們現在有沒有一些更積極的方法可以來鼓勵他們因為其實如果我們只有申請補貼其實他們如果跟這個掃票的平台來合作的時候黃牛來合作的時候其實呢他賺的錢比我們申請的補助還要多所以對他來說他根本覺得他不需要做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10181.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10196.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們現在能做的的確是跟這些售票平台或者是主辦單位來做協商那也非常謝謝其實很多的平台都願意來做配合因為現在的實名制是沒有強制法律的基礎所以現在以13年來說可以看到這些比較重大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10196.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10197.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
市長﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10227.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10252.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
因為其實我自己也知道就是因為我真的這個見面會某幾家是真的非常大家所以我想因為我現在看到的都是演唱會啦所以我想沒關係這一題的話我們是不是可以會後再來詳細的討論我們如何的因為他們真的是幾乎壟斷了所有韓星來台灣見面會的這個市場所以我想這個還是有需要做一些更積極的來合作啦因為畢竟我也就受害者我就是沒有搶到票這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10253.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10257.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
好,那在下一個題目我們來請,謝謝次長,那我們請署長喔請署長,謝謝那署長,就是說我想我們運動是需要明星的這一些選手來帶動我們的整個產業、市場這句話,我們署長認同嗎?認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10274.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10287.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
所以這個就是NCCA愛荷華大賽的女藍明星她叫克拉克她得分創下了NCAA女藍的歷史新高她在打破紀錄的那一場她的票價增長了25倍從原本的195塊美金整個大飆漲她也打破了高選54年的得分紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10296.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10296.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
一張一萬八 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10322.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10323.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
報告委員目前還沒有收到都是透過文化部的檢舉專區轉過來網頁我們的確需要優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10342.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10359.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
對齁這個部分要持續的優化那運動需要明星齁我們剛剛前面已經講了所以像現在其實這個女排的這個廖宇任啊還有這個男排的張玉生啊還有這個中信兄弟的游擊手江昆宇都非常的帶動了整個大家的關注選手很重要這是署長認同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10360.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10376.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
但是國內卻是一言不合就近賽扼殺了選手的未來剛剛其實其他委員也有提到這個游泳的部分剛剛署長已經做了說明那我想要再講這個不合理的規則並不是只有這一場比賽其實它一直不停的在出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10377.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10401.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
例如像是我們去年底的這個有一個讀花蓮自強國中的甲組的選手他轉學到吳介淑國中加入了乙組的籃球賽他也被禁賽了一年他只是甲組轉乙組那他也只是個國中生那這樣禁賽規則其實非常不合理的因為我們過去有這樣子的規則是因為我們防止他惡意挖角可是這個現實根本不存在但是他也被禁賽了一年再來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10403.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10424.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
再來就是說我們其實這些選手們非常需要成績才能夠升學他總共國高中這樣子尤其是高中才三年就競賽一年他到底要如何取得成績他到底要如何提升他自己的技藝這一點其實我想署長是不是有去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10425.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10425.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
5月29日及5月29日二天一次會 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10456.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10462.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
對於所有的不合理的競賽規則我們是否有全面檢視這個競賽規定呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10464.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10490.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
報告委員 針對籃球的部分我們在公共體總召開相關的檢討會議之後邀請全國參賽的一些教練、學校代表來那初步的回應大概是役組的部分我們應該會在下一個學年度會開放但是在甲組的部分所有幾乎大部分的教練還是希望能夠維持未滿一年注冊未滿一年的不能不得參賽這個規定主要也是因為在偏鄉跟東部的確這個部分實施之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10490.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10498.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
他的整個挖角的情況大大大幅度的降低所以還是有他的必要性但是遺囑的部分我們打算開放因為大家大概是覺得OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10499.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10522.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那在親主聯賽部分這部分我會回去徹底的調查那這部分我想牽涉到很多的協會這部分我體育署這邊會來全面的清查我希望署長要全面的檢視各項協會的一些競賽規則那尤其就是說剛剛雖然有說家族是有維持這個規定但是我想署長也非常清楚有時候其實學校有一些不合時宜的體罰是因為會導致學生因為我怕我今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10523.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10523.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
有請王次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10553.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10580.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
委員好市長好我覺得我每次來質詢我不是來質詢你們我是來幫助你們所以希望你們能夠聽下去以前我在商界做諮詢顧問收費是很高的我說免費諮詢提供的建議的確是我也很用心所以希望我們行政部門能夠聽進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10582.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10586.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
現在是不是出版業之東呢?職本的出版書店的確面臨很大的考驗因為閱讀習慣的改變有什麼拯救之道? |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10597.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10624.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我們目前大概就是一方面是結合這個圖書館的採購跟電子閱讀的這個服務來提升閱讀習慣另外就是獨立書店其實鼓勵大家養成閱讀習慣我想是一個重要的請求那個就是讀者嘛讀者大量減少嘛主要原因出在這裡嘛根本沒有那些那些大家被線上的這些影音所吸引 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10625.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10651.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
市長 我問你 你覺得我們的文化水準是越來越高還是越來越低就台灣自己的文化內容來說肯定是發展的越來越好的所以這個有本土文化越來越好不是本土文化是以台灣整體為基礎台灣整體包括台灣自己的也包括跟國際交流的那你覺得哪一個世代的文化水準比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10653.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10680.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
每個世代都有自己的文化的喜好跟自己的發展的沒有這個基本上這樣子都找不到答案你知道我在做諮詢顧問的時候我都對大企業老闆那大企業的董事長就基本上要先接受問題要接受問題不然像這樣子回答永遠是鬼打牆因為所有的事情都有原因都無法解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10682.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10708.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
好 這個次長我也希望因為那個幾次的詢問我覺得你都很會回答那回答到讓我們就是好像會有一點就是反正你也都在做事我剛才講我是要幫助幫助你們的那我並沒有包括很多事情我知道大家都很專業而且很辛苦但是我們希望把事情做得更好我這裡也跟次長講一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10710.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10729.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
這一個上個禮拜五那個壯世代政治及產業發展促進會在立法院成立了你知道嗎你知道這事情知道恭喜委員對那我要講這一個主要的目的是這個有63個立委加入成為會員3個黨的黨鞭都成為副會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10733.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10759.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我們文化部也有出席那意思就是說壯世代就是國會的重要議題了所以呢當我在講這個時候呢就是希望文化部能夠正式因為所有的部會都在歧視高齡者問他們原因呢後來都說不是他搞的是上面後來一直追究原因問題都出在文化部那文化部怎麼自己看待這件事情呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10761.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10772.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
不像沒有所謂歧視高齡的這個問題文化部提供的文化都是全民化的所以是全民化所以是哪一個部位的事情不是文化部的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10774.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10789.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
是行政院長的事情是總統對啊那問題是要怎麼解決啊哪一個部會所有的事情都是全民的問題啊哪一個部會應該來扛起這個責任呢我想每個部會應該都針對自己的業務你真的很會轉欸好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10792.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10806.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
你真的這樣子很會轉這個當然就是文化部的事情嘛我們的文化這個叫做高齡化要轉型這個已經不曉得上講了多少次了然後一直轉轉轉那文化部就不接求嘛不接求這個問題就無解嘛好那個接下來啦文化部看到這個指標這個數據的嘛指 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10817.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10837.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
直線下降雪崩式的出版業嘛這個還需要講嗎這就是出版業的冬天嘛我很多朋友的出版業的嘛大家都過得非常辛苦嘛是 紙本書的衰退我們有看到對對對 所以有這些問題嘛我們現在只是用這些補助啊讀書館採購這個沒辦法根本解決問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10842.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10854.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那現在出版業也是這樣子啦就是出了很多書啦然後還有說最近我看一個新聞有萬本的書籍直接送分化讀啦所以出版業憑感覺出書 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10860.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10877.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這裡數據也可以看得到每一個世代的數據這數據就是最低了吧60歲以上的過半都沒有在看書啦那到底是他們不看書還是沒有滿足他們的市場文化部應該要去理解啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10880.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10899.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
日本當然有很多啦,不過這個也跳過但是我們看提供這個我們到書局看的大概就是這一類的書籍給60歲以上的啦都是這種想像,市場沒有想像、沒有內容創作局限所以產業發展當然都很局限嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10901.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10910.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那我這裡也給次長看一下啦就為什麼會這樣子因為都停留在引法思維裡面包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10911.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10939.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
文化部也是銀髮思維啦那這個我已經講過如果你用文字雲下去你輸入銀髮高領出來的文字雲圖就是這樣子大概就是我們看到如果你輸入壯世代就是這樣子啦落差非常的都是時尚、社會、時感、參與嘛那這樣子就是我們的文化部到底在做哪一方面的事情你當然你現在站著所以你就沒有市場嘛你所做的事情不是他想要的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10941.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10966.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那壯世代想要什麼東西這裡提供你參考 input output他事實上有很多面很多面想要很精緻的體驗壯世代是比年輕世代更精緻的更精緻的更需要意義的很深入的文化水準的我們不要把它當作垃圾要把它倒掉把它倒掉的一個心態現在可以做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10969.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10996.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
現在我正在進行我希望文化部能夠跑在我前面壯世代的爆發80項需求調查你現在如果用GPD輸入幾乎都是引法族的思維我們對這個世代太陌生而且太刻板印象了認知系統大大的失靈完全不符合這個世代但是自己都身在其中都不願意去調整和修改這件事情文化部一定要先調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10997.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11006.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我剛才講了這件事情我一定會追蹤到底而且文化部列為所要所要追蹤的目標要去扛起這件事情的責任次長可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11007.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11029.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我想還是再次說明針對高齡世代的需求應該是所有部會的責任那文化部會站在文化部的業務內容裡面跟業務立場上面來做演繹跟…你真的是完全聽不懂聽不懂在講什麼完全聽不懂我跟你講說這就是文化認知文化認知已經錯誤的時候所有的部會就開始跟著錯誤嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11030.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11058.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
包括人民的私現在做這一個調查行為的調查我們針對60歲以上的數據調查幾乎是一片空白所以呢現在告訴你我是在幫助你的出版業之東用你用什麼樣的方式這裡有一塊大的市場800萬的人沒有這份的滿足然後呢這裡就是一個大的市場文化部要去導引這個方向嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11060.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11079.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
所以現在文化部也有提到但是我希望不要敷衍大家都認真想要做事情不要做敷衍不要做敷衍把壯世代的閱讀需求我這裡請文化部承諾三個月內提出鼓勵壯世代的群體提升閱讀意願的政策規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11080.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11101.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
如何提升剛才講50%過半以上的沒有在讀書那你就放棄他們嗎還是認為他們告訴你剛才講哪一個世代壯世代就是我們叫做文青世代文青世代每一個人都想當作家每一個人夢想夢幻都當作家那時候的文化水準非常高現在直接把它當垃圾丟掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11103.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11123.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
請他們不是不讀書而是沒有需求他們的這是文化部要扛的責任不要再推給什麼各部會了請文化部提出如何提升狀態閱讀意願的政策規劃第二點請出版業供需調查納入狀態的閱讀需求三個月內提出請問次長可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11124.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11124.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝兩位接下來我們請羅廷偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11149.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11162.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
好,謝謝主席,主席麻煩請這個王政次還有速發部的林副署長,行事局的林明佐警政監好,我們請文化還有數位還有警政署,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11164.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11188.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
今天非常感謝昭緯排這樣子的一個案子我覺得昭緯你一定很接地氣要不然就是你可能沒有買到張學友的演唱會門票我也是受害者之一但是我講真的我們接到太多太多的陳情案件所以對於昭緯這樣子排案我感到非常非常的感謝那文化部在2023年三讀通過《文化創意產業發展法》 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11191.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11216.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
目的就是為了嚇死黃牛的不肖行為但是實施之後到底有沒有改善黃牛的問題次長你說大概有兩千多件的一個檢舉案件對吧檢舉案是那目前我想跟您請問一下就是2023年三讀通過的這個文創法到現在你覺得改善黃牛這件事情一到一百分你覺得改善有打幾分 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11216.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11245.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我想在整體的黃牛的量尤其是規模化的經營的是的確有減少但是仍然有黃牛的存在這一點是不足的所以您覺得幾分我想分數應該是委員來打我個人覺得看到這一個書面報告大概六頁六頁左右還含前言對於黃牛法對於黃牛的這個賀紙相關的一個作為只有六頁來寫這件事情我覺得是不盡滿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11246.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11270.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那到底次長有沒有覺得說我們的黃牛氾濫到了什麼程度待會我想很多前面的委員應該都有提供一些案例但是我自己也要提供但是我想今天我要另外跟大家討論的是黃牛票最主要有三個面向跟三位現場的三位來做討論第一個法規面賣黃牛票究竟違反什麼法是色違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11270.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11295.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
文創法還是刑法我們當然第一個案例大家都在說竹科工程師自行撰寫整個電腦搶票的程式搶票機器人上傳網路免費工人下載搶購演唱會等門票5、6秒鐘可以買到一張被依文創法來法辦第二個案例臺北大巨蛋的運動賽事門票黃牛票被依設違法來法辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11297.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11325.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
第3個案例用虛擬身份來定票被依偽造為輸來法辦次長請問你怎麼看國內有這麼多關於賣黃牛票的法規跟委員說明那因為行為的本身有很多不同的面向但他所找到的可以掌握的證據跟可以裁罰的工具有不同所以他在法律的適用上可能會有不同的差異但關鍵仍然是將這一類的行為繩之以法 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11326.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11344.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
好,但是我想我覺得你的回答都蠻厲害的透過直播我想民眾會看到你的說法會覺得好像我們的政府真的有做事但是問題我們現在看到的就是黃牛票還是層出不窮黃牛票還是道高一尺魔高一丈我們看到藝文的這個表演 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11345.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11372.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
票券主要是用文創法那現在在進行的一個處罰次長文創法的第一條規定為促進文化創意產業之發展建構具有豐富的文化及創意內涵的社會環境運用科技及創研發展健全文化創意產業人才的培育並積極開發國內外市場特制定本法看起來文創法當初在特設計上就是比較正面的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11373.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11389.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
在文創法第10支一條我們上面販賣黃牛票的形式要件會不會怪怪的當初怎麼會想說放在這裡跟委員說明的確文創法是一個促進法比較不是一個禁制法但是當時主要是因為黃牛的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11390.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11414.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
實在是讓整體的社會非常關注所以文化部就負起這個責任把黃牛那大概相關唯一能適用的就是文創法因為它畢竟跟演藝票券的文藝票券的市場有關所以我們就把它放在了文創法那我也有說明就是說如果我們在整體的黃牛票因為黃牛票其實不只有藝人藝文演出的票券如果能夠有一些整體的規範我們其實是非常樂於配合的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11414.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11433.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
所以我說你的回應都很厲害看起來就是文化部願意擔起責任去協助但是我看了當初的文創法第十之一條立法說明提及社會秩序違附法法則過輕請問社違法法則過輕為什麼要修文創法而不是修社違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11434.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11451.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
當然你會跟我講嘛就是文化部這不是你的管轄啊你能夠負起的責任所以你去修了這個文創法但是我就想啊文化部報告第三頁講文化部收售之加價轉售檢舉案共2105件檢舉案中資料完備可進行調查609件已交由地方政府進行調查其中300件已處理完均309件調查中完成率約五成次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11460.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11485.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
因為文化部收到檢舉後最後還需要交給地方政府進行調查來進行裁罰但是我們看到如果地方政府消極應對怎麼辦我們的確需要努力跟地方政府來做協談跟配合所以我們有說明會跟教育訓練那但是我理解委員覺得現在做得不夠那也是我們做得不夠的地方剛剛包括葉元之委員在講的有些是各自取得不義然後還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11487.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11512.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
地方政府的積極度有問題我想都有啦我不要只幫地方政府講話好不好我都納入取得不義還有消極面對都有可能但現在就是我們看到目前法規的機制是否能夠足夠因應層出不窮的黃牛票在國內對黃牛票的有不同法規來處置這部分需不需要統一一個法律來做一個標準我想剛剛你有回應再回應一次好不好你認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11513.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11515.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
你覺不覺得需要專法或專章? |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11530.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11551.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我想你剛剛也有做表態那我們也希望未來有這個專法專章在日本我想很多人都在講日本韓國都有給你做相關的一個有抽選制的阿或者是他們有立專法專章我們更希望跨部會來面對這個問題我們一起來把這個事情來處理我想包括我也有準備幾個拋破影給大家看一下這幾個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11553.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11572.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
你看我的螢幕最左邊我是一個肺癌士氣張學友的歌迷因為沒辦法跟你們搶票我想應該也是搶不到當然他這篇文章在講的是他沒有病房也搶不到票希望大家能夠讓票我想買一張張學友的演唱會門票竟然要透過拜託施捨 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11574.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11603.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
這真的是讓我們感到非常的悲哀第二個台下最大的觀眾是黃牛他透過AI制圖還放了一隻牛在裡面我想這個部分讓我們一再顯示到我們到底現在的黃牛的這個相關產業有多蓬勃發展我們到底現在民眾對於現在的黃牛有沒有根絕我想我自己評分我一定是不及格但是如果用民眾的角度來評分我想民眾可能會給予0分 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11605.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11621.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
但是我現在不只是要苛責我們現在的政治文化部我希望的是我們積極面對處理這個問題而不是一再的只是批評攻擊我們希望處理你看到現在最右邊這個有多少人在上面寫我們800家代購費 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11623.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11641.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這有沒有符合黃牛票的定義?我有說明代購費要透過個案來認定如果它是必要性花費而且是由第三方來收受比如像遊資、交通這個才能稱之為代購而且它必須有事先的約定但如果超出這個範圍它仍然不是代購仍然觸犯這條法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11641.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11664.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那你認為代購費有沒有一個標準他如果油資可能花幾百塊幾千塊這在當時立法的時候其實文化部是提出了10%的標準10%當時但是被刪除了因為社會不能接受所以我們就刪除了你寫10%沒關係但我要跟你講就是我們所看到的有的3800的門票外面就是賣一萬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11666.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11681.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
這個是非常多的這樣子的相關案例我想到底要不要加強取締有沒有可不可以能夠狠狠的取締一年我們再來看看重重的罰看看還會不會有黃牛這是我們現在目前希望的我想這個部分我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11682.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11696.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
今天會把另外兩位都叫上來我覺得訴發部有沒有辦法從源頭去介入那以及我們的警察機關能不能從社委法我自己提了一個版本希望社委法能夠加重但是警察機關這樣子的一個相關設定 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11698.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11713.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
能不能有更好的一個法律出來這是我們未來希望能夠看到的而不是都只是看到我們立法委員積極的希望能夠來修法但是卻看不到我們的行政機關有實際的作為那我想第三個面向文化部有沒有獎勵實名制 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11714.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11742.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
有補助方案現在有獎勵嘛對不對但是實名制對於黃牛防治到底有沒有效我們要不要來探討這個問題我們已經有這樣子的一個獎勵機制但是我們看到完全沒有效果的話那這個獎勵到底有沒有效我想實名制是能夠有效來禁止黃牛這件事情應該可以從市場看得出來像現在看到張學遠唱會他就沒有採用實名制所以黃牛其實才會這麼嚴重如果有採用實名制的其實黃牛就不會這麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11743.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11757.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
最後我想要請求本席覺得實名制我覺得有處理一部分的問題但是有大部分的問題也不一定實名制能夠處理而且成本會大增主辦單位會大增這個相關的成本人事之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11758.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11783.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
觀眾的成本也會增加觀眾是不是會覺得這個消費體驗會變爛這個部分是不是未來有機會如果你要推實名制我們是願意樂觀其成但是能不能跟產業有更多的配套把它做好能不能再去邀集產業來做相關的溝通來做處理我們來做這個實名制的部分來朝向這個部分我覺得可以但是希望你能夠辦實際的相關的產業說明繼續努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11787.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11793.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
好不好 看到效果才是重點謝謝委員好 謝謝兩位那接下來我們來處理我們的臨時提案謝謝羅委員那我們現在就請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11802.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11828.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
有鉴於本次1.3全中運辦的過程中．與游泳項目傳出選手因熱身時跳水．致競賽一年爭議．所以依相關技術手冊與競賽規程．現場取消參賽資格．然規程修正與回應上．體育署人多已將由高中體總處理．將由游泳協會討論．衛健體育署作為主辦單位之高度與自覺．同時體育署在相關新聞稿發布外． |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11828.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11856.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
除未與當事人有過聯繫．並有關現場裁判宣告競賽一年作法是否有違比例原則．但會發布新聞稿與事實顯有出入等問題．均會得到說明與處理。．原此請體育署一個月內進行相關事件獨立調查．針對包含規程修正．申訴仲裁．制度以及禮賓業務經濟等業務．向當事人及立法院教育文化委員會提出書面報告提案人陳培宇、郭玉琴、吳芬玉秀的完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11859.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11860.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
請問陳委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11870.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11895.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
主席委員我們體育署這邊建議是在第5條的最後面除未與當事人有過足夠聯繫這邊說明一下因為我們在當時其實現場是有代表體育署的競賽委員在現場也把當事人教練把他找過來詳細的跟他說明也有指導他可以該怎麼做去後續去爭取選手的權益不代表體育署完全沒有作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11896.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11916.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
也建議在第6行的地方令有關現場裁判加一個限制那第7行的部分在等問題均會得到足夠說明與處理希望能夠有足夠這兩個字加進去第二段的部分在第一行是針對規程與技術手冊的部分修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11918.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11945.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
目前為止其實真的問題是出現在技術手冊但不是在規程不過這一點我們還是不會做進一步的爭執還是可以接受那第二行呢申訴審判仲裁制度希望能夠加上審判那仲裁這兩個字眼說實在仲裁字眼不是用在這樣子的一個情況它是arbitration它在這樣子的樣態是不適用但是這邊也尊重委員那我們是建議刪除仲裁兩個字是比較精準的 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11946.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11971.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那後面這一段的等業務向當事人及立法院教育文化委員會提出書面報告是不是能夠把當事人及這四個字予以刪除以上報告好 陳委員好 謝謝署長 謝謝主席大部分署長說的我們都可以接受改變只有第一個就是在12345第5行沒有跟當事人有過我寫的是有過聯繫那署長希望改成足夠聯繫嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11972.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11998.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那我這邊想要用一個情況來跟署長討論就是假設我們有學生在學校受到不當的對待那學校一旦要開啟相關調查或是說明一定會請當事人到場說明可是我發現好像在體育界裡面比較慣常是跟選手的教練做說明可是這裡面當這個機制一再一再複製在很多體育事件的現場其實他就忽略青少年表役權這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11998.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12016.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那如果把表意權這個概念拉進來看那教練雖然收到了剛剛署長您說的不管是現場的其他人的說明可是當事人他始終沒有辦法好好說明他的感受或者是當他覺得教練告訴他的事情他還有自己的想法想要回饋出來的時候可是卻沒有體育署這邊的大人要聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12017.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12039.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
所以是不是其他的修改我都可以接受可是在跟當事人聯繫這件事情上我還是要提出這麼堅定的看法是因為我覺得在很多體育事件當中確確實實都忽略了所謂的兒少表意權而兒少表意權在目前行政院所有所屬的中央機構裡面是非常非常重要的權力的表彰所以這個部分我比較堅持 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12041.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12063.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
好,署長。沒有意見。所以說當事人不用,你們這邊是OK的?一般我們過去是希望能夠在未成年的部分先找教練過來,但是剛剛委員提到了那個兒少的表育權,這部分我們沒有意見,所以這部分我們尊重委員。好。好,謝謝署長,謝謝主席。好,那你就跟委員說,那我們這個臨時提案就修正文字之後就通過。好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12067.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12072.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
好 我們繼續我們的開會接下來我們請黃珊珊委員 咨詢時間4分鐘 謝謝好的 謝謝主席 我想請文化部次長還有體育署署長以及刑事局還有刑事局的代表 謝謝委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12094.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12122.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
好,三位首長我想今天很重要就是我們在討論所謂在台灣的黃牛票猖獗這件事情黃牛票的存在對於一個國家甚至是對文化界、娛樂界、體育界非常大的殘害不但殘害了粉絲的辛苦錢殘害了主辦方跟代理商的商譽還殘害了藝人的產出價值那最嚴重的是政府的威信各位同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12122.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12143.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
政府的威信在黃牛票裡黃牛票猖獗的現代當然是一件今天大家都非常關心的事我想請問一下修法之後三個單位都有相關的主責的對象那取締的案子檢舉案子看起來也不少所以我想請問一下次長你認為現在這個法規有沒有效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12145.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12159.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我想從文創法11條修法之後它跟之前黃牛的所謂黃牛的市場比其實還是有好很多我們最近我想民意代表最近收到的就是非常多自己的支持者的 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12161.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12187.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
請託就是希望買到張學友演唱會因為他沒有實名制的結果因為我也打給他說因為我也買不到所以請不要再來找我了重點是主辦單位去問了他是幾秒鐘就不見了幾秒鐘就買完了所以現在的問題大概都是機器人的問題所以就這個案例看起來修法了一年目前為止還是沒有辦法完全二組這樣子的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12188.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12213.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
的確沒有完全遏制不過在裁處的案件上跟之前比當然是已經有了正面的案例所以黃牛就是要讓它賣不掉嘛 對不對黃牛就是要讓它不好賣嘛沒有人買嘛所以我們現在就是你現在不管是文化創意產業發展法還是我們相關的體育產業發展條例都一樣我們是罰所謂的只要加價就罰對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12214.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12241.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
是警政署的是社委法社委法還需要確定是不是自用對嗎文狀法裡面有不證方式也是警政署在查查就是掃票機器人的部分我們現在還要證明人家是不是自用還是要直接他只要拿出來賣加了價錢我們就開罰只要是加價轉售加價轉售就開罰只能以原價或低於原價所以目前為止只要加價轉售就開罰但是我可以看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12242.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12258.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
教育部的網站還有文化部的網站你們的檢舉黃牛專區都有這樣的問題第一個你要叫人家檢舉要提供交易相關資訊要販售者的銀行帳戶匯款記錄表示我要買了才能檢舉嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12260.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12275.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
主要是才能夠獲得買票各位的資訊市長你看一下這是教育部的這是文化部的交易相關資訊提供出來另外一個是教育部的教育部的是要有交易的證據就不是你剛剛講的只要加價 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12277.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12281.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
這是針對檢舉的條件因為還是要知道當事人比如說做這件事的人是誰沒有錯我檢舉可以具名我具名給他我告訴你是哪一個臉書在加價是但是我要有交易的證據嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12299.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12324.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
因為如果沒有交易的紀錄會不知道是誰在販售所以市長那就是違反到你原來立法裡面加價就罰這個原則喔我的意思是說如果你今天這樣的檢舉的方案民眾其實不太知道要怎麼檢舉喔他發現了加價就罰的情況他也沒辦法檢舉喔不一定要真的完成交易他只要有票號就可以那就請你們把你們網站上面的資訊改一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12325.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12349.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
如果你要讓民眾知道加價就罰的話你這個網站會讓人家誤導說你要買到才能檢舉這是第一點我們可以強化這個說明不是只有說明你的網站要給人家完整的訊息第二個部分就是剛剛實名制的部分實名制速發部你們的報告裡面完全沒有提到這個部分是怎麼回事啊是實驗站您請速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12355.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12379.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
所以速發部不再協助實名制的事務了嗎?唐鳳部長提過很多次實名制啊好 我給速發部一個建議還有文化部跟體育署建議就是當時在疫情的期間我們在台北市當時小巨蛋所有的演唱會都必須實名制它是做得到的只是要不要做? |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12380.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12381.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
接下來我們請黃婕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12408.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12412.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請文化部贊賜好 我們請 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12416.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12444.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
好 謝謝政次今天這個主題其實我關心很久了因為我一直都是一個很喜歡聽演唱會很喜歡參加藝文表演跟看體育賽事的歌迷也是球迷那當然現在很肯定這個文創法在去年5月的時候已經修正通過了可是修正將近一年到現在其實我也接到不少的陳情陳情的內容其實跟剛剛很多委員提到的差不多我不是收到那個張學友的陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12444.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12446.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
現在有兩個最大的問題一個是社委法跟文創法的競合這個是非常迫切的 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12466.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12485.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那另外一個就是實名制的問題先講一下社會法跟文創法這個非常嚴重的競合關係因為已經發生相關的案例了去年底有一個案例是有一個民眾他在網路上把職棒的周邊商品搭配亞警賽的門票來進行販售結果警方是怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12486.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12502.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
他如何處理呢?他把他用涉違法64條移送臺北的地方法院那法院最後判定是不罰這個結果是不罰因為呢他覺得說這個商品因為亞景賽的門票沒有公定價格的交易價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12503.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12517.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
然後說沒有辦法認定購票支出就有轉售的意圖然後也沒有辦法證明說這個人他購買門票的時候確實非公自用那這個是在社會法裡面的條件所以他就不罰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12519.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12534.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
可是我要問的是現在我們這種黃牛票的行為或者是說他用這個門票加售其他的商品同時販售的行為他很有可能同時違反社委法跟文創法或是同時違反社委法跟運發條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12536.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12560.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
那在這種情況下警方他們要怎麼處理他什麼時候選擇用社會法處理什麼時候選擇用文創法或運發條例處理我覺得這是一個必須要有明確界定的就是通常這種時候到底他需不需要同時送文化部或者是同時送地方政府的文化局或者是地方政府的體育局或運發局呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12561.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12562.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
像這種情況你們是怎麼處理的? |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12576.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12589.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
所以嘛可是現在已經發生這已經是在你們修法之後喔已經有文創法也有運發條例了可是地方的警方他收到這個案件的時候還是把他送涉違法處理了那這種情況該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12591.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12620.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我們是不是應該要有一個原則然後讓地方的警察他們接到相關的檢舉他們不是跟文化局或文化部檢舉也不是跟地方的體育局或你們體育署來檢舉他們是直接去報警那這種時候該怎麼辦你們是不是應該要有一個統一的處理方式而不是看他檢送的單位變成說如果是警方接到他們就直接用社會法如果是文化局接到反而要用比較重的文創法 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12621.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12621.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
跟我們報告現在已經不會發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12637.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12640.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
所以這個一定要很明確我希望說我們文化部跟體育署在跟地方政府溝通的時候一定要明確下達這個指令好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12659.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12659.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
實名制 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12689.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12690.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
所以這個科技由誰來處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12722.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12746.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
所以你們是期待現在如果民間有人去發明完然後再跟你們說我們現在可以處理了嗎是誰來處理是不是應該要你們回去找哪個單位出來研商可不可以現在讓大家知道現在應該還是經營者負擔比較多的責任啦所以我們還是跟經營者來做協商還是你們要請數法部協助我們當然很希望數法部來做一起來做我想這個平台是我們一起的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12746.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12759.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
好 那這個拜託你們會去會同訴發部一起來研究實名制的如何用更好的科技的方式處理好不好好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 感謝 謝謝我們接下來請陳婷飛委員謝謝主席 教委我們是不是請我們文化部還有我們的體育署好 文化部跟體育署 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12779.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12794.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我先請教一下因為文創法當時候查我們的黃牛票是比較早通過那如果依照我們所查獲的以文創法這個10之1第3項的刑法大概是5件5個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12795.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12818.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
目前確定的對目前確定的那還有繼續在查嗎有有安靜還在持續持續中嘛對那文創法10-1第二項行政法的部分30件然後2084,490元嗎是那基本上還在查因為總共好像有609件 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12820.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12836.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
對,609件所以309件的調查案當中基本上是採取30案是,目前已經確定了但是其中有300件是已經處理完均了所以這樣的一個比例你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12838.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12854.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
有符合人民的期待嗎?我想能不能做成裁罰的關鍵仍然是所能掌握的證據因為畢竟台灣在法制上是最新法定主義所以如果沒有掌握足夠的證據很難形成裁罰那這也是目前最大的一個整體的困難整體的困難是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12857.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12870.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
所以說今天如果經由檢舉因為我們也有專區嘛我們文化部有一個所謂的檢舉專區嘛那檢舉專區上去如果我們受理之後可是證據論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12873.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12890.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
不論是刑法或是行政法都是證據論可是如果資料不夠就會變成我們無法採取不論刑法或行政法因為我們剛剛有說特別法是優於一切所以是由我們文化部來做這樣的一個處理對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12894.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12922.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
現在應該是坊間跟我們的一個所謂查緝的一些速度跟效率好像大家覺得有點落差現在的關鍵大概有幾個第一個就是能不能取得這個行為人的個資那他的個資包括第一個最大的就是社群平台那社群平台如果不提出不願意交出他的個資的時候我們沒有強制的基礎那第二個當然有跟銀行賬號相關的這也會牽涉到人民的隱私權 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12923.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12948.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
大概在取得當事人個資確認的這個身份上大概是目前整個核心的問題那怎麼解決?因為你由於一些根本我們的這個所謂的剪掉這個部分他是沒有辦法介入就完全由你們可是我們的個資確實又有另外一個要求個資沒有辦法隨意透露是 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12948.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12968.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那有這個漢格怎麼辦我們現在能夠已經盡可能的去擴張包括售票平台那售票平台業者的合作的狀況其實還蠻好的可是他如果不提供你也沒辦法啊售票平台目前的合作狀況不錯他願意提供只要但是前提他有票號你們只要有提出他們都願意提供只要有票號他們願意提供但是重點是要有那個票號 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12969.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12991.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
這也是為什麼檢舉上我們請求民眾來提供票號的原因因為你有票號稅務平台就可以查出是誰買的這張票他就可以追出這個整個歷程那另外警方的部分跟我們做個資認定也合作的很好然後另外就是電信業者的手機這幾方是我們已經突破的那現在比較難突破的就是社群網站的部分這大概是一個最大的問題社群網站應該是我們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12993.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12993.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那我們呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13021.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13038.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
這個社群這個區塊沒處理的話你還是沒辦法我想在源頭上恐怕還是要有法律的強制性才有可能處理這塊的問題有想到怎麼突破嗎其實之前委員有一直在提出來說是不是在整體的黃牛行為上面可以有專法來做制約對 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13039.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13066.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
我就說這個必須要去思考的你沒有專法你就會有這個漏洞所以我們當時候修打炸無法之後現在必須要打炸專法就這個原因因為包括如何實名制的一個退票然後還有加價轉售的一個認定問題還有所謂的免費票券它的規範方式其實這整個一點一點當我們修了法之後這後面都會一路的跑出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13067.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13067.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
接下來我們請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13099.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13107.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
謝謝主席 楊全宇發言想邀請王政次跟署長好 王政次跟鄭署長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13111.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13130.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
兩位好大家都關心因為這是台灣目前也是全世界大家都非常需要的但是這個黃牛跑出來讓大家很難過所以我們要怎麼樣圍堵第一個也就是到目前為止我們的修正通過是針對於黃牛加重的處罰這個處罰我們也看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13134.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13140.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
實際上我們修法的重法仍舊不足以來應對這些樣態這些樣態網路的黃牛手法跟它轉做網路詐騙這個衍生出來是很難過因為我們看到這個數字111年是114件但是112年呢光光到9月份就300多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13156.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13177.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
就300多件所以它等於是三倍增啊等於是三倍增所以目前我們修過的條文就是轉售你最高你的票價就是加價5倍那外掛式的或者是機器人來搶票的主3年以下有期徒刑那併科的300萬元以下的這個罰金 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13178.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13199.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
但是我們修過之後剛才本席說的這個數字它也是一直持續在增加那換句話說目前的執行是沒有辦法去應對的所以在這樣的一個情況之下好 我們先來講治票重罰 重抓 那怎麼辦呢但是我看到這個數字112年呢我們1500多件的這個檢舉案件你開罰的台北市只有幾件啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13206.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13213.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
臺北市5件,高雄市12件,總法員107萬面對到這樣的問題,次長你有什麼樣的跟署長我們在受理的時候是不是有檢討的空間,怎麼樣簡化那個程序,請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13227.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13250.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
跟委員說明其實這整個裁罰率的關鍵仍然是取得行為人的個資的問題就是行為人到底是誰能不能確認他的行為的確是觸犯這個黃牛這個文創法所以本期一開頭都告訴你我們現在所修正通過的不足以應對你有很多的網路它的樣態不足以應對你不知道要誰犯罪型態尤其是暫期的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13253.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13275.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
對 那我們怎麼辦這部分可能還是要請警察局跟刑事的部分要靠警方來做我想文化部還是針對在一文票券的部分跟購票的業者跟購票的平台來做協商盡可能的採用實名制的方式降低這樣的犯罪率那我們再請警政監針對剛剛文化部所說的困難來 請出說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13282.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13301.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
委員好有關適用文創法以及運傳條例這些黃牛犯罪行為已經有專法規定那至於說轉成詐欺案件原本就是我們警方警政署偵辦的重點我們對於相關的案例我們都會積極來做依法偵辦的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13304.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13325.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
但是我們是有困難的你們兩個的這個界面是有斷點的因為文化部這麼困難你們也很努力在抓但是我有困難你請回座接下來我要請問我要把問題全部拿出來我們在討論的時候才會比較有一個方向但是呢我們看到這個黃牛黑數的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13327.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13341.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
剛才我們講了你網路的部分你找不到人你境外網路大量掃票沒有當面來教育他就沒有辦法取締或者是偷偷地換名目或者是包裝成勞務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13342.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13362.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
去躲這個追查勞務會去躲這個追查主要是加價就是處罰對 所以這個文化部也表示了你在演唱會開賣前如果雙方他們約定好他起付代購費那也不算違法喔這也不算喔他轉一個彎啊他也不算喔那似乎我們目前取締的這個黃牛標準呢它是多頭馬車 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13372.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13399.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教票券綁商品加價販賣那是不是黃牛行為?是不是?原則上算黃牛但是人家要看個案認定因為有些票券它是一開始就有加物件阿或者是加其他的加購所以人家要看個案但原則上如果所以我現在我們面臨到你所提出但是還是很多人用各種的方式去應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13401.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13404.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
所以像這樣子的魔舞地帶 你們再去檢討好不好把方案檢討清楚 對不對家家就是違法 但是他們兩個如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13412.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13412.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13439.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13439.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
韓國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13469.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13474.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩有請體育署署長好 體育署長 鄭署長 謝謝我也好欸 署長齁針對啊 有關於民力組協 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13480.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13501.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
從第一署最近這幾年每年幾乎都拿上千萬我上次質詢的時候說有這麼離譜的事情單據造假然後一查以下全部都自己人自己協會的人出去開公司自己拿補助然後給自己協會開的公司去報銷這麼離譜的事情我上次質詢你4月10日 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13504.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13506.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
報告委員,這部分我們已經在會內已經要求請那個會計事務所來協助我們做全面查核,審計部也過來幫忙做這個查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13525.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13526.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
主席宣告多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13556.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13585.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
能拖就拖,能混就混這不我們是請會計事務所來進行第三方公證的我請我已經請審計部去查了他們已經過來了我已經請審計部去查了因為上一次要求你們說逐協欠款的事情部長跟你承諾一個月內徹查嗎一個月內徹查交給我一個書面報告三頁我拜讀了啊你們整份調查報告啊我必須要老實講啊我真的是佩服的無敵投地啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13586.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13601.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
為什麼佩服的無底投地啊明明沒有給錢還發扣繳平單造假結果你們上面是什麼針對沒有開立扣繳平單的部分完成更正的程序啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13602.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13609.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
根本沒給錢錢我開扣繳平單這不是偽造什麼是偽造請教書長報告委員這部分已經有國稅局來進行調查那這部分我們是在當時呢這個會計的部分他沒有做地緣給付這樣的一個糾正所以呢已經做了國稅局的更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13619.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13622.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
請主席採視我們請署長等我們的委員發言完畢之後再來做一遍的回答好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13651.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13679.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
看了你們的調查報告稱目結舌明明就是造假用更正的方式就可以處理我想了半天為什麼有這麼離譜的狀況那個時候教育部次長林騰角3月21日受訪說這件事情發生的時候扣腳平單發生的時候你已經辭職了林騰角講的是真的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13680.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13692.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
報告委員．如果是以事實認定．您講的沒有錯．的確14號才買成立我的辭職案我們就談具體的主席．向帥炫基這間機關報告腳平單請列幾號2月6號你什麼時候離職的 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13697.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13724.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
我二月二號口頭親持二月六號我的中午我就已經飛機我就前往國外去二月六號那一天報扣繳平單的時候來我們來看一下當時的祕書長是誰當時的祕書長依照中華民國足球協會第13屆第一次理事會會議紀錄二月六號那一天你是不是還是祕書長幫委員如果是在書面上我的確還是對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13726.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13753.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
你什麼時候正式離開主協?報告委員14號那時候是正式的會議紀錄結束所以就回來講了嗎?所以就回來講了嗎?零藤腳可以為了cover你搞成這個樣子喔?報告委員這一部分我們並沒有在當下的稅整個報稅的過程我並沒有參與而且我們秘書長的權益是在單據的部分不信任體育組的查核嘛自己調查自己笑死人了報告委員我請會計師去查核的把偽造的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13755.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13758.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
有關於黃委員的質疑我還覺得鄭署長還是務必給黃委員一個更明確的一個交代好不好是謝謝來我們邱志偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13789.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13793.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
好 邱委員你要找哪一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13818.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13832.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
請體育署署長休息一下請休息一下署長請休息一下看你這樣很辛苦請最認真最專業文化部王史詩王次長次長請市長這個在立法院質詢項目上溫良功典讓算是少數這個賢者做實事 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13847.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13872.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
愚者博虛名在立法院可惜的是愚者比賢者多這是我多年來的感嘆但是孤城無力可回天只能看亂象一再的發生連我質詢都會受到影響連麥克風都要先消毒一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13875.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13901.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
市長,您在文化部服務多久了?從去年1月31日到任到現在,一年多的時間。對,你表現非常稱職。那我覺得這個文化的這個展演,或者文化的這些類似頒獎典禮,能夠多一點在高雄或是南部。那過去在我大力的這個質詢之下,你們也非常支持。後來金曲獎還到高雄嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13902.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13931.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
是之前有去過那我未來希望能夠常態性最起碼三金金馬還有金鐘金曲獎要有一金常態性設在高雄台南我也沒意見這南北的均衡好不好往這個方向我想我們就往均衡跟最適場地去另外呢這個大巨蛋做一個表演或者運動競技場所當然這個環境非常舒適在那邊看球也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13932.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13940.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
或者是這個看表演非常好目前好像據我了解使用的這個限制僅限於這個職業運動賽事你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13943.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13943.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13972.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13998.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
來 下一位 你休息好了嗎 署長我這次都很理性 我這次慢慢來 就事論事 我不會大聲吓吓 咆哮對身體不好 也會製造很多噪音立法院是論證的地方 不是比聲音大小的地方聲音大小我以為是聲音很大 但是為什麼在這個場所是為國家做事 為人民服務而監督政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14000.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14005.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
不是比你大聲、比你小聲我小聲也可以很有力量耶溫柔也可以很有力量耶禮值要契合啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14014.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14021.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
理直氣壯 悲哉啊 悲哉啊理直咆哮 更悲更哉啊來 這個 你知道這個黃牛票的狀況齁有沒有看過這個法網或者是澳網或者是這個美網你有沒有去看過這個四大公開賽我沒有親自到過我去過齁 你要去官網買也可以官網不好買 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14044.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14045.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
我曾經用這個去買世界盃足球賽 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14072.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14072.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14093.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14093.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
主席委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14123.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14125.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
我還是用麥克風因為這個小麥克風看起來有點酸 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14153.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14176.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
事實上每個委員質詢每個質詢都不管是大聲小聲最重要的要代表民意還有監督行政體系我們期待等一下我的質詢不要任何酸味好 謝謝主席我們請這個數位發展部的林俊秀林副署長副署長你好這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14182.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14198.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
電話詐騙先是明年第一名老蔣這也是數位發展部到目前民調第一一個很重要的原因我給你看一下您唐鳳部長在禮拜你備詢的時候提過說為人要防詐騙的這個電話唐鳳說 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14201.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14203.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
不小心被回報為詐騙但明明又不是詐騙你們不小心被回報為詐騙但明明又不是詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14231.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14234.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這是古年的事你們現在研究的成果怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14237.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14261.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我們目前是主要是電簽法然後用實名用那個如果用數位簽章就推定為這個本人親自參與所以這個這樣子來確認實名制的方式但這個剛委員講的所以你說的可能跟你們補充說的可能不一樣你看那一期你看左上角那個日期這是去年2023年三月配合婦女節你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14263.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14280.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
部長對民眾的承諾啊,你們現在是變睡美人了嗎?你們沉睡了一年,我們沒有看到你們提出的方法。我再講一次,你們變成數位發展部變睡美人,已經睡了一年,過了一個月,還沒有提出方法來嗎?你如果不知道,今天數位發展部誰派你來,這不是你主管的業務嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14291.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14292.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
副所長你知道多少人去搶這個門票嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14320.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14346.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
剛剛委員有說大概加起來是將近十萬吧六萬再加三萬等等兩副兩梯次搶票的人有五十四萬三十六就秒殺了你就知道台灣人都在搶著要去聽張學友的演唱會我給大家看一下你看一下這個是人家來檢舉他好不容易搶到票了五十萬分之一搶到票了你看這個圖結果簡訊過來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14350.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14375.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
叫他去付款了結果五十口裡面跳出來一個簡訊裡面跳出來一個北海福祚你看搶張學友的門票跳出的是北海福祚副市長你知道北海福祚是什麼嗎?很難對不對搶張學友的門票好不容易搶到了五十四萬分之一搶到了他通知收降他去繳費結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14377.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14395.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
回到簡訊裡面五十口的跳出來說什麼這是北海福壽的詐騙下面一個紅字是寫什麼詐騙過幾天他還講什麼這是一個廣告那人家就在檢舉啦我到底要不要去要不要去要不要去付款去取票 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14398.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14425.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
這個我們可以跟這個個案我們可以跟福斯科了解一下這不是只有一個個案這很多人碰到的事情這個也是回到你們剛剛連部長引諾大家的企業你們不是只有幫政府嘛各部門嘛你們幫各部門有意義對不對我們來做一個333好不好幫企業來做一個好不好來我們看一下現在機制裡面有很多缺點不知道你要民間主動去回報你採取這黑名單的機制嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14426.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14441.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
可是企業常常就被污染,像剛才那樣的東西你就造成企業本身,民間的這個業者本身負擔就很重第二可能更嚴重的,對民眾會造成困擾啊來我們用一個方式好不好,來面對詐騙請數位部做這件事情來 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14443.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14469.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
有沒有可能向你們幫忙各政府機構用的一一我們來做一個333就是所有的商家可以跟政府數位發展部建立起來的我們做個申請由政府來做兩件事情把他這個公司的資訊的安全還有公司查核把它做好如果確定是沒有問題你就給人家一個驗證碼以後所有的企業所有的商家就透過這個333傳回去那就不會出現剛剛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14471.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14494.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
報告委員這個在那個電信主管機關那邊有在跟電信商那邊在討論他們有自己對於民間的一些做法這個恐怕他們已經在討論了我們目前就只針對地方政府跟關鍵基礎設施跟中央政府所以這個因為民間他可能有商機可能本席今天會提這個現在是三書民眾是最大受害者嘛對不對搶到票了結果不敢去買 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14496.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14497.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
這也是你主管的業務嘛你們討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14523.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14523.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
請羅智強委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14555.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14555.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14563.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14588.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
市長好 張學友演唱會 那麼臺北廠6場6萬多張門票3月30號就秒殺嘛 那家常的3場4月21號開賣 然後3分30秒又全部售完那買不到的歌迷痛批 黃牛利用城市掃票大掃特掃 那一般民眾根本搶不過 質疑為什麼不採全實名制 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14588.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14612.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
我看文化部的報告中提到今年的一些熱門演唱會28場是實名制3場是部分實名制2月3日高雄國家體育館的紅髮愛德演唱會4月6日、7日在臺北小巨蛋的IU演唱會購票入場都要實名制次長為什麼這次據你了解張學友的演唱會沒有採實名制 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14613.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14632.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
跟委員說明因為目前實名制是沒有強制的法源所以我們基本上都是跟公報平台跟主辦方來做協商鼓勵跟希望他們採取實名制或者用補助的方式協助他們因為採取實名制會增加他們的整個的成本所以大家用這種方式來鼓勵但沒有辦法強制 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14634.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14644.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
那個沒辦法強制可是另外一方面我們就看到一個現象當然有需求就有市場買不到票的民眾就會在社群網站去尋求轉讓這是黃牛的一個起源可是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14649.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14667.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
我們又發現包括說臉書社團都很多販售門票甚至剛剛也講了有些是詐騙但民眾匯款根本拿不到票去年修了文創法可以重罰黃牛但是熱門演唱會的搶票亂象依舊沒有停止那次長怎麼看呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14668.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14668.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
所以你認為都是個體戶現象? |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14693.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14693.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
我舉個例子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14713.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14726.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
上個月就有民眾表示他要向他人購買日本高手LISA的演唱會門票對方加收4000元的手續費那他向臺北市政府檢舉那回應是參照文化部112年9月8日辦理文創法第10條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14731.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14750.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
主管機關教育訓練主張略以．犯受人代購錢以說明代購費用．且有明確金額則未構成違法。那我想請問文化部是怎麼去定義所謂的手續費代購費是不是屬於法所禁止的黃牛行為還是說今天只要明碼標價就無法可罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14751.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14752.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
4千元的手續費你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14777.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14801.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
是合理的嗎?不合理那可是如果說他就說我這是手續費啊那你所謂的又說加價就是重點是他們有沒有事前約定因為代購這件事情是一個明法上的約定行為所以它是一個契約行為那如果說你們之前有訂定契約那個契約是廣義的包含你用LINE用各種方式做確認那就是你事前就同意我這樣講因為這個案實在太多了也沒時間講 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14803.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14829.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
我覺得去年文創法、修法有委員主張實名制那文化部是保留態度沒有支持強制的實名制可是現在修法進一年我覺得是不是文化部能不能好好來評估一下現在到底這種狀況我覺得這種狀況好像黃牛現象民眾真的是非常不滿意請你們再多加研究好不好我們可以往這方向做研議好 謝謝以上謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14831.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14847.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
好 謝謝羅志強委員接下來我們請何新淳委員、何新淳委員、何新淳委員蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員鄭天才委員、鄭天才委員、鄭天才委員李坤澄委員、李坤澄委員、李坤澄委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14849.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14854.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
吳思堯委員．鄭振前委員．林楚英委員．劉建國委員．張家俊委員．王美惠委員．蔡易瑜委員．羅明才委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14877.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14906.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
羅明財委員．羅明財委員好今天登記質詢委員均已發言完畢另外有林倩琦委員．林祖英委員提出書面質詢關於今天會議做如下的決定那我們報告及詢討完畢委員所提書面質詢或是相關的資料我們列入記錄並且刊登公報對於委員質詢所要求提供相關的資料或是未及答覆的部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆報告委員會我們今天議程處理完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14907.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14908.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
現在休息謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14945.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14953.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
法定人數不足 |