| IVOD_ID |
158526 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158526 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-30T12:54:24+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-30T13:09:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/358c3f0dd56dd1e0b676efc738c6e8814f10c035d50fc64820a17d70bb46c0dc6075f793af8843da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:54:24 - 13:09:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院龔秘書長明鑫、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲就「行政院表示：因財劃法修正，114年度總預算須重編」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【113年12月30日及114年1月2日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席,我請財政部長莊部長喔委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
46.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
總部長一整個上午我看到你跟主計長兩個那就一次被在野黨當然也有幾位我們執政黨的立委就多所批評了這一次財政法案法這樣子通過之後那我只能用喔輕痛愁快四個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
74.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
來形容現在這個情況那早知如此你記不記得在3月份因為你是極少數有延續從上一任那延續到這一任的部長所以那時候你也知道當時我們執政黨包括我我們就提出說針對財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
102.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們財政部應該提出院版的我們行政院版到底我們認為財政收支應該怎麼樣結果三拖兩不拖的拖到520內閣改組之後你也接任財政部長之後你還是沒有提出從頭到尾 一次到這一次財政收支劃分法被強行通過之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
132.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
也還是沒有對應政策我認為當初我們要說哪一個黨的版本不好哪一個黨的版本是過分啦是限縮了中央總體的國防外交重大交通建設的支出這一些我們應該我們提出那怎麼樣才是對的結果通通都不 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
150.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那現在被在野黨也來扯說那你超徵說現在超徵一年都超徵三四千億那拿了一個三千七百多億光超徵的就夠但是你看了一下從這七年來確實我們有超徵 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
179.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
除了2020年我們沒有超徵而且還少徵了222億確實其他年度都超徵超徵的金額也都不少三四千億有的甚至達到超徵五千兩百億之多啦這個部分我今天再提出我就是希望說財政部你們回去好好針對為什麼你每年抓的預算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
208.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
實行的那個年份都又超增那當然這是景氣豪政府的政策對我們民間的功勞最大民間有活力民間的進步這些都是事實但是你們竟然都預估不到這一點我倒是很訝異所以我是希望這樣當今之計就是說四個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
211.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
229.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
市權下放也就是說拿了多少錢去地方拿了3700多億去那這3700多億相對應的那他就應該擔多少的責任多少的市權就是下放給他比方說長照 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
232.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
257.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
長照本來在執行的時候就都是需要的老弱婦孺身障者他們的長照也好他們的自立生活也好他們的就學就業需要的交通的輔具也好這些本來就是各該縣市地方政府社會局他們去接駕交通局他們去接駕 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
258.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
282.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那我們中央再來撥款給他們那既然是撥了這些去那麼就該這一部分的市權乾脆就移給地方那我們中央不再補助就這些錢大家四四六六講清楚也就是說市權下放但是市權下放要有一個前提就是要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
283.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
298.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以部長我覺得這一個部分事權下放的修法必須由你來主導跟各部會協商看怎麼用這個部分趕快去做一些完成修法可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
301.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
318.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
對於委員質詢謝謝委員的質詢第一個就是說財政部對於財政收支劃分法的一個修正其實一直在努力從去年 今年初我們收集各地方政府的意見他們指標多大八十幾個那在八十幾個裡面每一個指標的含義內涵我們必須要把它弄清楚才能夠規整那也經過財政部開會以後已經把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
322.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
346.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
目前都有共識這個指標部分除了三個指標沒有共識其他的部分已經有共識那接下來就是指標裡面必須要權重的一個賦予一個配置好這個權重這個權重裡面每個指標配置的權重就跟我們要達到一個均衡區域發展跟調劑財政營蓄的目的要相符第二個部分我們要鼓勵財政的一個努力另外呢對於就是說每個權重裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
347.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
367.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
每一個指標裡面它還要有更細緻的一個調整系數我講過比如說人口不能只用一個人口的一個數字那人口裡面有結構的不同土地有土地的面積但是土地面積裡面有建築用地跟農業用地它也不相同你應該必須要有更細緻的劃分可以不同的一個系數或加成我想這個部分跟委員說了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
371.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
394.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個都跟我們在立法院研議的方向大概都一致但是你手邊就像你剛剛講的你手邊都有各該地區各該地方政府他土地服務員大小比例多少農地多少建地多少工業用地這些你們都很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
394.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
420.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以我認為在修法上你們才能很快速的做出最公正的一些評估當然就是說我們在做這個過程當中這些意見也是地方政府他在我們來開會的時候他們所表達的所以這個部分除了我們收集他的意見之外另外就是我們的權重怎麼樣去配置另外權數的部分他的調整係數要怎麼樣的加成或減成這個都還要大家要有個共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
430.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
448.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我認為加速,加速也就是說再來的開會必須要很有效率也就是說財政部內部你趕快把爭點找出來啦把到底地方政府他們講的有哪一些不管有沒有道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
449.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
465.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
到底他跟我們爭執點還在哪一些重要的點好不好爭點拿出來那大家就針對爭點來回答那麼一些不必要的爭執像剛剛我一路我聽在台黨立委一路罵你們我說實在話 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
委員好主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
492.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
517.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
年到了你又先報了一個喜訊你說這個24年還新低我們11月份的失業率降到3.36%但是如果去除掉我們農曆年農曆年本來就是因為季節因素那臨時性的工作比較多隨便舉例像聯絡大街這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
519.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
545.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
如果你把季節性因素去掉以後我們失業率是不降反升那你看一下這個表格這是從美國、台灣、南韓、德國、香港這樣做比較下來你看看在疫情期間大家都一樣高美國甚至高達5.7香港高達5.1但是你看疫情之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
546.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
571.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
疫情之後不但美國降降到比我們略高其他亞洲國家當然啦歐洲、德國這個3.0不算其他亞洲國家從韓國、香港、新加坡到日本都遠比我們低所以啊那個主計長這一點我一直想不懂那麼你有 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
574.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
576.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
最近你要跟我們我有問你們吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
577.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
592.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我說今年的5月我就問過我說你們要怎麼樣來研究改善結構性的失業今年5月我同樣的問題我就問因為業務緊縮會導致的結構性失業現在11月份因為業務緊縮導致的結構性失業人口高達10萬2000人內 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
606.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
626.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
高達10萬2千人這個就不是你剛剛報的喜訊喔這個算是一個警訊欸一個警訊那當然這裡面齁我覺得最嚴重的是青年的失業率我們青年失業率那個主計長你知道嗎高達11.75% |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
630.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
653.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那你是說因為青年暫時找不到職場方向那但是主計長我請問你啊剛剛我講的失業率遠比我們低的韓國、香港、新加坡、日本他們國家也會有這個因素啊也會有這個青年暫時找不到職場方向也有這個因素不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
654.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
678.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那你有去規劃啦找不到職場方說我工作地點不理想待遇不符期望我工時長短不適合當然列了這些這些因素其他那幾個國家也都有不是嗎所以我認為主席長你們在失業率的統計查查都過分樂觀還有針對啊我們怎麼樣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
683.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
684.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以主計長我想聽聽你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
697.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
712.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
報告委員剛剛講的季節性的一個調整那為什麼我們會比去年還要高是因為去年他是影響比較大季節性的調整比較大今年比較少所以相對的這樣一減下來我們又比去年來增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
715.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
731.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那這個部分就是說季節性調整今年相對比較小那再來就季節性調整如果我們驅除的話現在談到的就是說原則上就是說它是短期的影響我們必須要給它刪除然後來看一個整個結構性的一個事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
732.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
733.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我希望你更激進 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
760.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
785.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我告訴你這個青年失業率我們已經高達11%了11%是大概包括跟以色列墨西哥這麼偏遠的國家相比他們都才5.2、5.3那跟我們鄰近的韓國他們也只有我們一半他們才5.4而已不是這樣嗎還有有一點你回去再 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
787.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
787.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
委員長王世堅 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
795.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
817.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
調高這是對但是這麼多年來的統計比方說這10年來的統計我們的低薪者高薪者高薪者他一樣是高低薪者有調高可是中位數是中位數薪資者這10年來幾乎文文不動沒有任何的調幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
817.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
833.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以這一個部分當然我們在立院我們很多立委包括我我們都有提出說如何加薪減稅這樣子的案子這些都還沒通過所以我希望說對於薪資中位數者 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
835.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
854.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主計處你們想想看有什麼樣的方式對中位數者來做提升因為這10年來中位數的薪資所得者他們是聞不動這一點是我提醒你們要去注意的地方我跟委員報告以往我們就是中位數只有年薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
855.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
882.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
沒有月薪那我們現在已經改善了所以我們現在已經有中位數的一個薪資有月薪那月薪是我們還往前推到109年度的一個資料所以現在會有中位數的一個月薪出來那中位數的月薪和平均薪資裡面的一個距離我們越來越縮短表示說大家也是中位數的薪資越來越趨近於平均薪資是這樣沒有月薪的同時啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
882.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
884.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好,那你把這資料給我我以為你遺忘了中衛新知者,你忘了這一... |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2024-12-30T12:54:24.189000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2024-12-30T12:54:24.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席，我請財政部莊部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2024-12-30T12:54:24.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2024-12-30T12:54:25.150000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
莊部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2024-12-30T12:54:26.631000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2024-12-30T12:54:26.752000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2024-12-30T12:54:48.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2024-12-30T12:55:14.425000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
莊部長，一整個上午，我看到你跟主計長兩個一直被在野黨、當然也有幾位我們執政黨的立委多所批評，這次財政劃分法這樣通過之後，我只能用「親痛仇快」四個字來形容現在這個情況。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2024-12-30T12:55:15.086000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2024-12-30T12:55:49.350000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
早知如此，你記不記得在3月份，因為你是極少數從上一任延續到這一任的部長，所以那時候你也知道，當時我們執政黨，包括我，我們就提出針對財政收支劃分法，財政部應該提出院版，就是行政院版到底認為財政收支應該怎麼樣。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2024-12-30T12:55:49.350000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2024-12-30T12:56:09.584000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
結果三拖兩不拖的，拖到520內閣改組，你也接任財政部長之後，你還是沒有提出，從頭到尾，一直到這一次財政收支劃分法被強行通過之後，也還是沒有對應政策。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.984 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2024-12-30T12:56:10.424000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2024-12-30T12:56:36.735000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
我認為當初……我們要說哪一個黨的版本不好，或是哪一個黨的版本是過分了，限縮了中央總體的國防、外交、重大交通建設的支出，針對這些，我們應該提出怎麼樣才是對的，結果通通都不提。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.921 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2024-12-30T12:56:38.910000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2024-12-30T12:56:51.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
現在在野黨也來扯說你超徵，說現在一年都超徵三、四千億，要拿出三千七百多億，光超徵的就夠。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.949 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2024-12-30T12:56:51.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2024-12-30T12:57:12.952000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
但是你看一下，這七年來確實有超徵，除了2020年沒有超徵，而且還少徵了222億，確實其他年度都超徵，超徵的金額也都不少，有的三、四千億，有的甚至達到超徵5,200億之多。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.954 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2024-12-30T12:57:14.493000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2024-12-30T12:57:47.321000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
這個部分我今天再提出，就是希望財政部回去好好針對為什麼你們每年抓的預算數，到執行的那個年份又超徵，當然這是景氣好、政府的政策對，而我們民間的功勞最大，民間有活力，民間有進步，這些都是事實，但是你們竟然都預估不到，這一點我倒是很訝異。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2024-12-30T12:57:47.321000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2024-12-30T12:58:12.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
所以我是希望這樣，當今之計就是四個字：「事權下放」，也就是說，拿了多少錢去地方，拿了三千七百多億去，這三千七百多億相對應地它就應該擔多少的責任，多少的事權就下放給地方。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.811 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2024-12-30T12:58:13.321000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2024-12-30T12:59:00.211000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
比方說長照，長照本來在執行的時候就都是需要的老弱婦孺、身障者，他們的長照也好，他們的自立生活也好，他們的就學就業以及需要的交通輔具也好，這些本來就是各該縣市地方政府社會局及交通局去接洽，我們中央再來撥款給他們，既然是撥了這些去，那麼這一部分的事權乾脆就移給地方，我們中央就不再補助，就這些錢大家四四六六講清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2024-12-30T12:59:00.751000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2024-12-30T12:59:22.778000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
也就是說，事權下放，但是事權下方要有個前提，就是要修法，所以部長，我覺得事權下放的修法必須由你來主導，跟各部會協商，看這個部分怎麼樣趕快去完成修法，可不可以？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.914 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2024-12-30T12:59:26.245000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2024-12-30T12:59:41.999000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
謝謝委員的質詢，第一個，財政部對於財政收支劃分法的修正其實一直在努力，從今年初我們蒐集各地方政府的意見，他們的指標多達八十幾個，在八十幾個裡面每一個指標的含意、內涵，我們必須要把它弄清楚，才能夠規整。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.956 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2024-12-30T12:59:42.099000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2024-12-30T12:59:51.685000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
經過財政部開會以後，目前都有共識，指標的部分，除了3個指標沒有共識，其他的部分已經有共識。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.974 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2024-12-30T12:59:51.825000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2024-12-30T13:00:31.082000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
接下來就是指標裡面必須對權重部分賦予配置，每個指標內權重的配置必須與達到均衡區域發展和調劑財政盈虛的目的相符，第二個部分是我們要鼓勵財政的努力；另外，每個指標內還要有更細緻的調整係數，比如說人口，不能只用一個人口的數字，因為人口內有結構的不同，比如說土地面積，裡面有建築用地和農業用地，兩者也不相同，所以應該有更細緻的劃分，給予不同的係數或加成，這個部分我們一直都在努力。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.779 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2024-12-30T13:00:31.222000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2024-12-30T13:01:07.564000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
你說要細緻劃分，這個都對，也跟我們在立法院研議的方向大概一致，但是就像你剛剛講的，你手邊有各該地區、各該地方政府土地幅員大小和比例，有多少農地、多少建地、多少工業用地等等，這些你們都很清楚，所以我認為在修法上，你們才能很快速的做出最公正的評估。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2024-12-30T13:01:08.224000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2024-12-30T13:01:23.789000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
當然在這個過程中，這些意見也是地方政府在我們開會時候所表達的，所以對這個部分，我們除了蒐集他們的意見之外，另外就是權重要怎麼樣去配置，權數部分的調整係數要怎麼樣的加成或減成，這些都還要大家有共識，都還要去協商。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.835 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2024-12-30T13:01:23.809000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2024-12-30T13:02:05.428000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
大家要有共識是沒錯，但時間上都來不及，法律都通過了，錢都要撥了，所以我認為要加速，加速的意思就是接下來的開會必須要很有效率，也就是說財政部內部趕快把爭點找出來，把地方政府跟我們有爭執的是在哪一些重要的點，不管有沒有道理，把爭點拿出來，大家就針對這些爭點來回答，減少一些不必要的爭執。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.643 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2024-12-30T13:02:05.428000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2024-12-30T13:02:09.314000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
像剛剛我就聽到在野黨立委一路在罵你們，說實在話，我是認為你們的成績不算很好，但是也不至於到一路挨罵的程度，我看了其實滿難過的。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.31 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2024-12-30T13:02:09.314000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2024-12-30T13:02:10.314000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
我知道部長的意思了，加油啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2024-12-30T13:02:10.314000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2024-12-30T13:02:11.314000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
那就請部長先休息，接下來要請教主計長。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2024-12-30T13:02:10.656000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2024-12-30T13:02:10.756000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2024-12-30T13:02:10.776000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2024-12-30T13:03:09.543000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
主計長，年到了，你又先報了一個喜訊，說是24年來新低，我們11月份的失業率降到3.36%，但是如果去除掉農曆年這個季節因素，因為農曆年的臨時性工作比較多，隨便舉例像年貨大街這樣的，那如果把季節性因素去掉以後，我們的失業率是不降反升。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.848 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2024-12-30T13:03:11.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2024-12-30T13:03:52.799000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
你看一下螢幕上這個表格，這是美國、臺灣、南韓、德國、香港相較，可看到在疫情期間，大家都一樣高，美國甚至高達5.7%，香港高達5.1%，但是在疫情之後，不但美國降到比我們略高，當然歐洲德國只有3.0%不算，其他亞洲國家從韓國、香港、新加坡到日本，都遠比我們低，這一點我一直想不通。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.887 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2024-12-30T13:04:02.528000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2024-12-30T13:04:32.003000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
今年5月我就問過你們要怎麼樣來研究改善結構性的失業，因為業務緊縮會導致結構性失業，11月份因為業務緊縮導致的結構性失業人口高達10萬2,000人，高達10萬2,000人！ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.97 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2024-12-30T13:04:34.605000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2024-12-30T13:04:41.332000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
這個就不是你剛剛報的喜訊，要算是一個警訊。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2024-12-30T13:04:43.634000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2024-12-30T13:04:50.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
這裡面我覺得最嚴重的是青年失業率，主計長你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2024-12-30T13:04:50.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2024-12-30T13:05:11.494000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
我們的青年失業率高達11.75%，你說是因為青年暫時找不到職場方向，但是我請問你，剛剛我講的失業率遠比我們低的韓國、香港、新加坡、日本等國家也會有這個因素啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.853 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2024-12-30T13:05:11.914000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2024-12-30T13:05:34.728000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
也會有青年暫時找不到職場方向這個因素，所謂的找不到職場方向你有列了幾個因素，比如工作地點不理想、待遇不符期望、工時長短不適合等，但這些其他幾個國家也都有，不是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.784 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2024-12-30T13:05:34.728000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2024-12-30T13:05:48.431000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
所以我認為你們在失業率的統計查察都過分樂觀，針對怎麼樣調整救濟來防止這些結構性失業，你們束手無策，所以我想聽聽主計長你的看法。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.61 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2024-12-30T13:06:01.223000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2024-12-30T13:06:23.065000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
報告委員，剛剛講的季節性的調整為什麼我們會比去年還要高，是因為去年季節性調整的影響比較大，今年的影響比較小，這樣減下來，所以我們比去年增加一些，就是說季節性調整今年相對比較小。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.815 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2024-12-30T13:06:23.065000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2024-12-30T13:06:36.533000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
再來就是如果我們去除季節性調整因素，也就是說原則上它是短期的影響，我們必須要加以刪除然後來看整個結構性失業，在我們主總的調查裡，它是屬於基本的調查，乃是基本資料的蒐集，至於相關的其他政策的執行包括措施的改善，這些部分都屬於勞動部，所以我們會把相關的資料提供給勞動部參考，然後由他們來做一些相關措施的改善。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.275 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2024-12-30T13:06:36.533000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2024-12-30T13:06:37.113000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
我希望你更積極一點，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.417 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2024-12-30T13:07:04.659000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2024-12-30T13:07:27.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
我告訴你，我們的青年失業率已經高達11%，連以色列、墨西哥這麼偏遠的國家，他們都才5.2%、5.3%，跟我們鄰近的韓國也只有我們的一半5.4%而已，不是這樣嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2024-12-30T13:07:27.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2024-12-30T13:08:01.136000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
還有一點你回去再研究一下，我們這幾年來政府調高基本薪資，調高低薪，這是對的，但是這麼多年來，比方說這10年來的統計，我們高薪者一樣是高，低薪者有調高，可是中位數薪資者這10年來幾乎是紋風不動，沒有任何的調幅。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.733 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2024-12-30T13:08:03.538000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2024-12-30T13:08:24.295000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
當然我們立院的很多委員包括我在內都有提出如何加薪減稅的提案，這些都還沒通過，所以我希望主計處你們想想看有什麼方式可提升薪資中位數者？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.841 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2024-12-30T13:08:25.856000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2024-12-30T13:08:35.378000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
因為這10年來，中位數薪資所得者他們是紋風不動，這一點是我提醒你們要去注意的地方。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2024-12-30T13:08:35.818000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:05.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
跟委員報告，以往我們對中位數薪資的統計只有年薪沒有月薪，現在已經改善了，已經有中位數薪資月薪的統計，而且還是往前推到109年度的資料，所以現在會有中位數月薪的統計表，且中位數薪資所得者的月薪和平均薪資的距離縮得愈來愈短，表示中位數薪資所得愈來愈趨近於平均薪資。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.748 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:05.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:06.981000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
你又有新的統計？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.125 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:06.981000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:07.342000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
那你把這個統計資料給我。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.727 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:07.342000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:08.342000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
我們再提供給委員參考。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:07.462000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:07.963000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
我以為你遺忘了中位數薪資者的部分。沒有！沒有！ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.45 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:08.463000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:13.320143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
我們現在每個月都有公布中位數的月薪。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:13.620143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:16.763000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
好，你把這個資料給我。謝謝！ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.182 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:17.063000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:18.491571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
是，謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:18.791571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:20.791571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
謝謝王世堅委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:21.091571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:29.948714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢，本日會議作如下決定：一、報告及詢答完畢。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.032 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:30.248714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:42.248714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
二、委員質詢未及答復或請補充資訊者，請相關部會於一週內以書面答復；委員另要求期限者，從期約定。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2024-12-30T13:09:42.548714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2024-12-30T13:09:53.405857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
三、委員羅明才、羅智強、王義川所提書面質詢，均列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關部會以書面答復。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0 |