| IVOD_ID |
158525 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158525 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-30T12:43:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-30T12:54:14+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/358c3f0dd56dd1e05e5119da324680534f10c035d50fc6485ada2b19569a09cc7cf64100f1aa8a575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:43:45 - 12:54:14 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院龔秘書長明鑫、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲就「行政院表示：因財劃法修正，114年度總預算須重編」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【113年12月30日及114年1月2日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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我們請財政部長、主計處長請莊部長陳主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.446 |
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兩位好我們這次通過這個財劃法我看到民進黨包括中央的各部會你們的講話充滿了邏輯的矛盾因為簡單講財劃法就是從中央先地方先跟中央先挖一筆錢然後要給地方嘛現在是3000多億嘛對吧所以在這一點上面很多人就攻擊說哎呀給了3000多億之後呢中央就會沒錢啊什麼不能做什麼不能做什麼不能做什麼不能做這是一種攻擊方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.64 |
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63.893 |
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另外一種攻擊方法很多民進黨立委是在攻擊說分配不均啊啊為什麼新北比較多啊為什麼誰比較少誰比較多像蘇小惠委員他說新北怎麼可以只拿到300多億啊應該要500多億600多億啊那奇怪那個蘇小惠委員為什麼跟你們講法不一樣你們認為只要多花幾億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
65.254 |
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84.764 |
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及議員中央就無法運作了但是民進黨很多委員認為挖的不夠啊因為要更多啊所以我覺得這個都是話術啦都沒有理性認真的討論問題都只是說反正這個財劃法是國民黨要通過的所以我們就亂打一通打到邏輯矛盾也沒關係打到自打的也沒關係只要能夠打國民黨就OK |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
105.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
但我覺得財劃法這是應該是要就事論事的東西啦財劃法從過去賴清德總統在當台南市長的時候他就認為財劃法要修啊他以前要修就不是迴憲亂政國民黨修就是迴憲亂政如果每一個公共議題的討論都是先扣帽子再講 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
120.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那就沒什麼好討論了嘛所以今天我要非常理性的來跟兩位來討論這個財劃法的問題我先請教一下現在財政部部長你是算出來現在如果我們最新版的財劃法通過應該不是從明年開始試用吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
121.716 |
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150.764 |
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是嗎?是從明天開始適用嗎?總預算要重編嗎?總預算要不要重編?跟委員報告,114年我講過這個禮拜已經開始了而114年總預算行政院重編完了目前大院也在審議所以沒有嘛所以沒有,那為什麼之前你們官員又要放一個消息說要重編所以今天的主題就是到底要不要重編啊是因為你們先放個假消息說要重編才有今天的委員會啊可不可以不要什麼事都想政治操作啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
151.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
171.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你們想要操作就是說我好麻煩喔你看國民黨又在亂了啦國民黨通過財劃法所以害得我們總預算要重編重編以後呢很多預算拿不到啦預算今天拿不到什麼拿不到啦國防整個廢掉啦國民黨就亂台灣拜託一下你們政府官員不要時時刻刻想著認知作戰好不好部長今天就告訴大家不可能重編嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
172.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
191.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
不要再搞這些了拜託一下所以第一個沒有要重編對吧?沒有要重編不管行政院主計長還有財政部都沒有說要重編那請你去譴責之前放出消息說要重編的人破壞社會秩序欸很扯欸可不可以你們內部約束一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
193.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
220.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你們是公僕耶!你們是人民納稅人群來做事的怎麼會去擾亂社會製造恐慌讓台灣亂唯恐台灣不亂怎麼會這樣子啊可不可以譴責那個放消息的人?可不可以?我們已經說得很清楚了現在現在很清楚但之前你現在說得很清楚是因為我們開這個委員會嘛那之前放假消息那個人勒?星期三的時候上星期三的時候我也有說過啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為你有說過所以不會譴責你嘛我們現在是叫你去譴責那個放假消息的人嘛第二個我想請教一下你們講說呢如果3000多億給了地方之後一堆預算都沒有了啦國防也會受影響老保基金要受影響租金補貼受影響育兒經濟部影響我想請問一下很多社福預算如果是法定支出是不會受影響對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
244.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
266.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主計長已經說很清楚第一個就是我們在支出的裡面屬於法定義務支出當然是不能去受影響那非法定義務支出對我知道只是我慢慢收斂嘛你不要急第一個就是法定支出的社福不會受影響嘛所以不是所有社福會受影響對不對好第一我慢慢收斂嘛你不用急嘛第二個教育經費會不會受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
268.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
273.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
教育經費是不是法定支出?教育經費是不是法定支出?第一個我們要先排除法定預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
285.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
301.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
教育支出是總額保障所以是用前三年的一個稅率好謝謝你所以教育金會不會受影響然後再來國防預算請問一下我們這次修財劃法其實想要達到一個標準就是精神前跟精神後 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
302.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
309.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
經省前中央是佔總稅收60%地方是40%但是經過經濟發展的影響所以變成中央75地方25本來的版本是希望回到經省前60 40但後來也修正了變成69跟31 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
324.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
335.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
後來變成69跟31嗎?因為他3753就是9%但是他要一般性補助又維持6%那我想問一個問題請問一下經省前國防預算是中央預算支出還是地方支出? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
336.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
355.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他是中央支出嘛所以在精神前所有的國防預算都是中央支出嘛那為什麼你只是把原本的地方預算還給地方一部分忽然間國防預算就沒了呢這筆錢從頭到尾都是中央支出啊然後再來第二個國防預算一堆都是特別預算啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
357.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
377.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
為什麼要這樣子又要打芒果乾呢?把抗中這個恐懼套用在就事論事的公共議題上面這個我真的很不能接受欸國防預算從精神前就是由中央的預算支出你把原來的地方的預算還給地方對國防預算本來就不會影響啊而且國防預算很多都是特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
378.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
397.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第三個我想問一下可能問一下財政部長啊為什麼我們新北市跟高雄啊每一次計劃性補助款我們自籌款高雄都是自籌款只要4成我們新北市要6成啊為什麼計劃性補助款有關自籌款部分是由主計總處按照地方的財政的立案主計長回答一下為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
398.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
418.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個部分我們是有定一個依照財政的財力去劃分啦對好謝謝財力所以你就是懲罰財政機率好的人嘛高雄為什麼自籌款只要付4成因為財政機率不好大量的舉債欠債多新北市財政機率好欠債少所以我們自籌款要6成 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
419.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
445.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以每個縣市都這樣搞就好了啊大量的舉債啊但是我們也有獎勵啦也有獎勵一些我想問一下臺南臺南的那個自籌款多少?比例多少?他是第四級啦臺南是多少?第三級多少?自籌款是多少?臺南是第三級他會因每個計畫各部會合定的那個比例不一樣並不是統一的大概多少嗎?幾到幾嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
447.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
464.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他看計畫大概28吧72比28差不多幾趴幾趴幾十到幾十就是每樣的計畫他都不一樣那他有沒有他做款比例有沒有比新北高他就屬於那台南的話他就屬於第三級你知道我為什麼講台南嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
465.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
490.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
之前不是討論一個議題嗎就是國民黨本來有要提案但是現在說不及的提案就是老人的健保費65歲以上本來的版本是說只補助20%所得的集聚在20%以下的長輩本來的版本後來說改成5%但後來因為大家有疑慮所以這個沒有說要等到有共識在推你們應該知道這個事吧應該知道這個事吧我那時候老人福利法老人福利法那 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
496.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
522.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我看到很多民進黨的立委出來亂鬼扯說為什麼我們要補助郭台銘健保費我不知道郭台銘的難道他的所得稅原來是在20%以下原來他都不用繳所得稅這鬼扯蛋但我告訴你哪一個縣市就是20%好不好台南市就是台南市目前台南市的錢他們市政府的錢就有補助所得稅20%級距以下的長輩不用健保費就有 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
524.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
547.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以實際上實際上如果說各縣市一樣啊如果按照你們邏輯那我們各縣市就來補助啊我們現在新北市是所得稅5%以下長輩有受到補助那一樣新北市舉債然後去給那個20%以下的長輩然後財政機率搞得比較差未來去申請計劃性補助的時候哇我們的自籌款就變少了咧本來六成欸四成欸你覺得這樣公平嗎主計長你覺得這樣公平嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
551.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
562.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
指出的部分我們會扣款所以那個他還是也被我們扣款被你們扣款扣補助款那一樣啊那問題是他們之後在計劃性補助製作款就比較低啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
565.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
587.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以這個財政東西非常複雜我要講的就是其實這個非常複雜我們現在財劃法只是修統籌分配稅款而已但中央給地方的錢有好幾種有統籌分配稅款、有一般性補助款、有計劃性補助款然後這裡面還有貓膩除了要看表面金額之外你還要看你的自籌款比例多少、中央補助的比例多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
588.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
605.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
是要整體來看嘛那現在統統不斷的來修之後哇 台南高雄跳出來哭說哎呀 中北青南外北新北300多我們才多少那你們要不要想想你們一般性補助款拿多少你們計劃性補助款拿多少你們計劃性補助款裡面的自籌款是多少要比 不玩了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
605.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
625.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我在這邊講我只是希望我相信對面幾位政務官你們都是就事論事的人啊之後這個議題還會不斷延燒網路上一堆梗圖亂七八糟的都在顛倒是非希望你們秉持政務官的風骨啦不要動不動出來帶風向啦還總預算重編欸我真的覺得真的莫名其妙啊 |