| IVOD_ID |
158492 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158492 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-30T10:02:47+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-30T10:16:28+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:41 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/358c3f0dd56dd1e088d2519d09eff3bf4f10c035d50fc64849d0b5afa0c2001be63f43b907692b255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
郭國文 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:02:47 - 10:16:28 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院龔秘書長明鑫、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲就「行政院表示：因財劃法修正，114年度總預算須重編」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【113年12月30日及114年1月2日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席。有請主計長跟財政部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.335 |
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委員好主計長好部長好我想今天我們委員會要討論的關鍵字就是重編還有一個是重修重編總預算是不是要重編重修財劃法是不是要重修那重編的話當然是主計長的責任重修的話就是我們部長要去面對的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.473 |
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65.939 |
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好,到底要不要重編一個關鍵的問題就是說,我們看看這個圖表。主席長,我這個圖表是不是正確的?本來要有一個施政方針,然後才會有各部會進行概算。概算完以後行程之後,到8月底的時候要送預算進入立法院,是不是這樣子?要例行大概8個月之久,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.713 |
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88.766 |
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是,那個施政方針的一個制定然後我們從編徒,要籌編預算大概就是要需要3到5個月所以我剛剛也談到了就是所有計畫如果要刪減也必須要跟各部會逐一去討論對,逐一討論,要重新來一遍所以說這也就說您口頭所說的自愛難行這自愛難行不只是剛剛的預算啦剛剛講到說什麼那個潛進預算2800億2800億不是本來就要分三期的嗎?不是,是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
121.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以今年是編20億那這個部分減的部分還是沒有辦法對啊就不一樣嘛不是割到拆得嘛更何況現在預算都已經審查都已經在進行當中縣市當中已經有剩下兩個縣市還沒完成而已嘛那眼見沒有多久就完成了嘛部會當中33個部會呢已經完成完全初步審議了嘛那麼現在就只有兩條路要走我們總預算如果通過的話你就是召喚執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
122.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
147.59 |
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好 照案執行之後 後面有一個救濟的程序暫時處分 先復議 暫時處分 然後再釋憲 對不對這三種狀況的話 個人估計 如果按照上次執權行使法的擴權法案到整個那個大法官會議解釋出來之後 憨不啷噹大概半年之久啦5月17通過之後 到半年之久 到10月25號所以半年之久的時候 你要因應的就是兩雙軌嘛 兩個路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
149.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
171.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第一個,我們來執行啊,你現在所編那個總預算照案通過你就按照這種方式執行,也就是沒有3減3753億的狀況下去執行,對不對?是不是?照案執行就是這樣子嘛我也不能照案執行,我必須先控管,不然...對,控管齁,就控管萬一事件沒有過的話,3753就在後半年的時候來執行嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
192.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以說你現在是雙軌並進的方式嘛如果那3753放在後面如果萬一事先沒有執行的話那3753就要開始處理嘛對不對那3753處理之後呢接下來呢後續的部分你還有面臨一個雙軌的問題也就是明年開始你要編總預算啊是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
193.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
212.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那你是不是一樣要雙軌進行?是不是?一個是屬於如果假設事件有成功的話也就是說或許認為大法官會解釋說這個通過的財政收支方法基本上是違憲的話那你是不是按照原來的假案對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
213.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
233.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那麼議案的部分呢是不是變成說如果說事件失敗的話那是不是你還有另外一個可能性就是說你要編那是不是你不是告訴本席明年的這個預算是不是要編兩種走兩種途徑對不對所以實際執行是有他的困難在對阿是不是要用雙軌的方式嘛我問你嘛要面對這個問題嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
260.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是中央部會各個部會編兩種預算嘛對不對那是不是以後的縣市政府也要編兩種的預算你是不是要跟地方的主計人員是這樣告知有可能啊因為這種屬於不確定的狀態嘛屬於可能凍結的狀態嘛凍結的狀況底下你經過半年持久很有可能一個走向有效一個走向無效嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
261.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
275.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以不論是明年的預算的執行面也好或者明年的預算的編列面也好都會面臨雙軌的部分主席長你是不是要拆開四種可能性來去進行明年的整個預算編列與執行是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我們本身就說他在編預算、抽編預算方面會有很大的一個困難不是很大的困難嘛講白一點更何況你剛剛講了3到5個月讓你整個四限案明年如果按照我剛剛推估半年之後你到說3753要執行你說要重編有可能嗎因為3到5個月不是到年底了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主計長你要直接的講出你的困難點啦因為你現在沒有辦法重編嘛你現在沒有辦法重編嘛還是你要進行重編不可能嘛不可能的情況底下你要等到四限完以後再重編的話那不是到年底了嗎對不對是不是主計長你要回答我不要點頭啊是是這樣子嘛所以非常的可能自然難行的情況底下你要講清楚你要講清楚所以你等到四限暫時的狀態你也沒有辦法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
329.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
330.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
主委長,您要回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
375.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
是目前如果說是現在未定的狀態那我必須先控管3753不能執行好這是一個關鍵問題嘛好那你今天你今天昨天在報紙上又有提到說如果說錢要隨同事權要隨同錢來做移轉嘛昨天有提到這一個嘛要修正所謂的這個行政行政作用法嘛好那你口中的行政作用法是哪些法 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
376.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
396.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
例如說有關那個地方制度法相關事權的一個還有一個相關的例如說龍寶啊老寶相關的一個負擔的一個機關的一個修改負擔的修改也就是說應該下放給地方還要下放給地方嘛老寶啦龍寶啦等等還有地方制度法的事權的一個下放責任的下放錢的下放好那問題來了那個莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
399.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
411.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
拜託,這個修法的工作就是您相關的工作啦。部長,你之前一直講說不應該倡訴立法,你跟地方政府一直有在進行溝通嘛,對不對?你覺得你這個地方溝通還會不會持續進行? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
418.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
幾個指標都濃縮有個共識唯一沒有共識是三個我想這個指標的定義我們之前花很多那是橫向的部分嗎每一個指標對要不然就指標背後的含義大家要用一個權重比嘛用釐清然後才能夠彙整加下來接下來就是權重權重以及調整系數因為其實我們在跟地方政府討論的時候地方政府的意見都能夠充分的表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
比如說人口的部分部分縣市也告訴你說你不能只用單一人口數因為人口裡面有結構的問題沒有我只問您說你會不會持續跟他們做溝通還有包括地方制度法你有沒有打算要修地方制度法你要保留一個重修的可能性嘛有沒有可能因為為什麼部長我提醒你一點如果說將來真的有要執行所謂的這3753例的時候那個困擾可能不是你喔地方政府很大困擾喔是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
469.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
如果今天拿到的錢是直接把它分掉福利那很好處理啊可是現在的錢如果是要執行事情的話那要耗費很多的人力欸還有包括他今年度的施政計畫當中有沒有包括這3753億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
500.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對,因為在那個中央統籌分配稅款我們會在這個年度開始前的四個月之前就要通知各地方政府次年可以分得多少那他就根據這樣子去編列預算所以他原來的預算裡面並沒有含這個3753億嘛他工作計畫都沒有這些他拿到這個錢要怎麼規劃 對不對所以說你從這個角度來說也是自愛難行嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以那個部長我要跟您說的是說你在之前的溝通的那個部分著重於水平分配那接下來是中央的這個分配的配置的情況底下或許將來他們遇到的問題說其實我真的不需要這麼多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
535.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
535.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
拜託請主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
565.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現在說宏觀調控的部分 剩下兩個可能性嘛一個是一般性的補助 一個是計畫性的補助嘛 對不對計畫性的補助應該沒有什麼太大的問題啊因為主控權在你嘛 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
567.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
586.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是嘛那一般性的補助因為已經被匡列可是你當初一直講說呢因為行政院主計處一直講說114年度的是2051億嘛你好像你感覺上次叫115年這個所謂這個法才會執行一樣但事實上呢不得少於修正施行前的一年113年度其實是2303億 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
610.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對不對是23031正確的講法是23031對啊是23031不是2051嘛所以這種情況底下我必須說如果說你這個一般性補助應該沒有也不是說毫無條件說要補就補嘛你總是要有一個執行的標準嘛它的效率它的執行率要怎麼樣你要不要給這筆錢有沒有一個標準在 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
612.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
642.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為一般性補助主要是在於均衡就是說有不均衡的部分我們給他一些的協助所以主要是第一個限制有差短的部分我們優先來補助那第二個就是說我們會補助他教育、社會還有基本設施相關的一個部分那他錢都已經夠了這些的補助應該也就不用了所以他主要的一些項目都已經不用了所以你要把一般性補助跟這個所謂的這個統籌的部分重疊的部分你要抓出來大家都好意你有沒有抓過 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
649.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
有那個不是說基本設施相關是10421042也就是在這個2000多億當中還有1042是重疊的這個就是以後可以縮減的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
659.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
664.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
另外一個部分我必須要跟你講你這個主計長擔子很重我剛剛講說你要走雙軌未來走雙軌現在走雙軌之外你現在還面臨兩個問題欸行政權有他的行政權政策規劃的主張要落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
675.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
700.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
立法院現在是在野多數他也想要透過這個立法的方式來指揮你行政權譬如講最近又有多一個之前的禁法補助多了225億之前這一個公糧補助多了90億最近的健保費65歲免健保費又多65億也就是說落選的總統候選人他要完成他的政見透過立法的方式來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
702.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
713.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
當選的總統候選人也有他的政見要執行啊你變成要執行兩個一個當選的一個是落選的三七五三一啊對他們來說是輔選的也就是說他們未來要輔選他們的那個縣市首長的選舉啊也就是當選的政見也要落實那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
722.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
723.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
如果執行當政者的這個狀況還有落選的狀況那你會不會舉債? |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
735.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
755.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
呃這個舉債的部分要請財政部好來財政部來15%嘛總共我跟你算過啦2685億嘛2685億嘛舉債其實我想各位委員也都重視所謂的財政紀律不輕易舉債而且對而且公共債務法裡面也有流量跟存量的管制對都有15% |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
756.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
759.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
即便15%你全部補 取代到2685你還是28%的3753你還是補助不到嘛 還是差1000億嘛而且財政要有韌性 財政紀律要維持嘛那我問你現在財政紀律有辦法維持嗎當選要落實他的政見啊 落選要落實他的政見啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
775.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
802.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
財政要有一定的空間留著不能全部把它用可是你要面對這個政治的現實啊比如說你像發生疫情等等的時候必須國家要有一個財政的能力來去應用那是後面的部分你還有一個舉債2.8兆當然是預留未來的變數我可以理解嘛但是現階段你就面臨一個雙重的問題落選人要落實他的政見當選人要落實他的政見否則的話你難道把當選的政見不執行要執行落選的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
802.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
803.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
謝謝郭國文委員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2024-12-30T10:02:57.898000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2024-12-30T10:02:58.059000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2024-12-30T10:02:58.539000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2024-12-30T10:02:59.400000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
有請莊部長跟主計長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.556 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2024-12-30T10:02:59.400000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:11.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
莊部長跟主計長。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.286 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:11.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:11.636000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:12.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:12.456000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
主計長好，部長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:13.157000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:18.481000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
今天我們委員會要討論的關鍵字就是重編，還有一個就是重修。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.962 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:19.382000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:22.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
重編──總預算是不是要重編？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:22.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:24.446000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
重修──財劃法是不是要重修？ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:25.828000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:31.032000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
重編的話，當然是主計長的責任；重修的話，就是部長要去面對的問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:32.873000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:35.234000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
到底要不要重編？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:35.234000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:40.235000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
一個關鍵的問題，我們看這個圖表，主計長，我這個圖表是不是正確的？ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:40.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:50.778000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
本來要有一個施政方針，然後才會有各部會進行概算，概算完以後，形成之後，到8月底的時候要送預算進入立法院，是不是這樣子？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.962 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:50.918000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2024-12-30T10:03:52.939000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
要歷時大概八個月之久，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.769 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2024-12-30T10:03:53.713000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:07.681000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
是，施政方針的制定，然後籌編預算大概就是需要三到五個月，所以我剛剛也談到了，所有計畫如果要刪減，也必須要跟各部會逐一去討論。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:07.681000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:08.642000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
對，逐一討論。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:08.642000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:09.563000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
要重新來一遍。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:10.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:12.765000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
所以這也就是你口中所說的窒礙難行。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.647 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:12.945000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:15.446000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
這窒礙難行不只是剛剛的預算，剛剛講到潛艦預算2,800億，2,800億不是本來就要分3期了嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.829 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:15.646000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:15.746000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:22.367000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:26.649000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
所以今年是編20億，這個部分，減的部分還是沒有辦法。對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:26.829000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:27.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
就不一樣嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:27.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:30.110000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
就是「竹篙鬥菜刀」嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.25 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:30.110000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:38.514000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
更何況現在預算都已經審查，都已經在進行當中，縣市當中已經剩下2個縣市還沒完成而已，眼見沒有多久就完成了。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.979 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:39.274000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2024-12-30T10:04:58.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
部會當中，33個部會已經完成初步審議了，那麼現在就只有兩條路要走，我們總預算如果通過的話，你就是照案執行，照案執行之後，後面有一個救濟的程序──暫時處分，先覆議、暫時處分，然後再釋憲，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.94 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2024-12-30T10:04:58.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2024-12-30T10:05:08.367000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
這三種狀況，我個人估計，如果按照上次職權行使法的擴權法案，到整個大法官會議解釋出來之後，大概半年之久啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2024-12-30T10:05:08.787000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2024-12-30T10:05:14.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
5月17日通過後到10月25日半年之久，所以這半年之久，你要因應的就是雙軌、2個路線。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.871 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2024-12-30T10:05:16.691000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2024-12-30T10:05:27.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
第一個，我們來執行現在所編列照案通過的總預算，你就按照這種方式執行，也就是在沒有刪減3,753億的狀況下去執行，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.843 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2024-12-30T10:05:27.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2024-12-30T10:05:28.980000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
是不是照案執行就這樣子嘛？ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2024-12-30T10:05:29.540000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2024-12-30T10:05:32.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
我也不能照案執行，我必須先控管，不然它…… |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2024-12-30T10:05:33.083000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2024-12-30T10:05:38.066000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
對，控管，萬一釋憲沒有過，3,753億就在後半年的時候來執行嘛！是。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2024-12-30T10:05:39.347000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2024-12-30T10:05:41.770000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
所以你現在是雙軌並進的方式。是的。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2024-12-30T10:05:44.053000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2024-12-30T10:05:49.459000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
3,753億放在後面，萬一釋憲沒有執行3,753億就要開始處理，對不對？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.731 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2024-12-30T10:05:50.480000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:03.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
3,753億處理之後，接下來後續的部分你還有面臨一個雙軌的問題，也就是明年開始你要編總預算，是不是也一樣要雙軌進行？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:03.920000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:19.317000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
一個是屬於假設釋憲有成功的話，也就是或許大法官會議解釋認為通過的財政收支劃分法基本上是違憲的話，你是按照原來的甲案，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.862 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:20.438000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:26.403000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
乙案是如果釋憲失敗的話，是不是你還有另外一個可能性？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:27.204000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:35.491000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
所以你是告訴本席，明年的預算要編2種途徑，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.905 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:35.491000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:37.372000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
所以實際執行是有它的困難在。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:37.853000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:39.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
對，是不是要用雙軌的方式？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:39.774000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:40.115000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
我問你嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:40.235000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:40.495000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
要面對這個問題。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:42.163000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:50.006000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
但是中央各個部會要編2種預算，那是不是以後的縣市政府也要編2種預算？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.967 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:51.687000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:53.128000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
你是不是要告知地方的主計人員？ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:53.128000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2024-12-30T10:06:55.108000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
事實上是有可能吶！ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2024-12-30T10:06:55.409000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:07.494000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
因為這屬於不確定的狀態、屬於可能凍結的狀態，在凍結的情況下經過半年之久，很有可能一個走向有效、一個走向無效，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.942 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:08.437000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:22.587000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
所以不論是明年預算的執行面也好，或者明年預算的編列面也好，都會面臨雙軌的部分，主計長，明年整個預算的編列與執行，你要拆開4種可能性來進行，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:23.172000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:27.797000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
所以我們本身就說，它在籌編預算方面會有很大的困難。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:28.117000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:28.898000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
有很大困難嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:29.338000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:30.039000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
講白一點。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:30.039000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:43.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
更何況你剛剛講3到5個月，整個釋憲案如果按照我剛剛推估半年之後，你說3,753億要執行、要重編，有可能嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.905 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:43.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:45.314000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
因為3到5個月後不是就到年底了嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:46.349000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:55.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
主計長，你要直接講出你的困難點，因為現在沒有辦法重編嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:56.377000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:57.378000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
還是你要進行重編？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:57.378000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2024-12-30T10:07:57.798000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
不可能嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2024-12-30T10:07:58.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:02.482000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
不可能的情況下你要等到釋憲完以後再重編，那不是到年底了嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.926 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:02.482000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:03.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:03.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:03.743000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:03.963000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:05.645000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
主計長，你要回答我，不要點頭啊！是。 |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:06.345000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:06.846000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
是這樣子嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:07.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:11.029000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
所以非常有可能窒礙難行的情況底下，你要講清楚！ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:13.171000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:14.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
等到釋憲暫時的狀態有沒有辦法處理？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.812 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:14.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:15.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
釋憲結束之後，我剛剛說整整也要6個月，如果是7個月、8個月呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:15.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:16.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
9個月、10個月呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:16.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:17.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
你還有重編的時間嗎，有沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:17.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:18.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
就沒有啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:18.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:19.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
如何重編？ |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:19.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:20.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
依照你現在的狀況也沒有辦法重編，不是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:20.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:21.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:16.409000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:16.989000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
主計長，你要回答。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:36.753000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2024-12-30T10:08:42.998000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
是，目前如果是現在未定的狀態，我們必須先控管，3,753億不能執行。 |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2024-12-30T10:08:43.318000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:02.453000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
好，這個是一個關鍵問題，你昨天在報紙上又有提到，如果事權要隨同錢來做移轉，昨天有提到這個，要修正所謂的行政作用法，你口中的行政作用法是哪些法？ |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.984 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:03.824000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:13.968000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
譬如有關地方制度法相關的事權，還有譬如農保、勞保相關機關負擔的修改。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.71 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:14.388000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:23.252000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
負擔的修改，也就是說應該下放給地方的要下放給地方，如勞保、農保等等，還有地方制度法事權的下放、責任的下放、錢的下放。 |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:23.612000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:31.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
好，那問題來了，莊部長，這個修法的工作就是您相關的工作，部長。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:31.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:36.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
你之前一直講不應該倉促立法，你跟地方政府一直有在進行溝通，對不對？是的。 |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:36.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:38.730000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
你覺得你跟地方溝通還會不會持續進行？ |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:45.477000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:50.500000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
原來我們溝通大概就指標的部分，已經把八十幾個指標都濃縮有了共識，唯一沒有共識是3個，我想這個指標的定義，我們之前花很多時間每一個指標…… |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.557 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:50.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:51.381000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
那是橫向的部分嘛？ |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:52.581000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:57.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
對，就指標背後的涵義，大家要有一個共識，來釐清才能夠彙整…… |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:57.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2024-12-30T10:09:59.005000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
就是權重比嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2024-12-30T10:09:59.005000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:06.330000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
接下來就是權重，權重也是調整係數，因為我們在跟地方政府討論的時候，地方政府的意見都能夠充分地表達。 |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
0.911 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:07.210000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:14.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
譬如對人口的部分，部分縣市也告訴你不能只用單一人口數，因為人口裡面有結構的問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:14.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:16.495000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
沒有，我只問你會不會持續跟他們做溝通？ |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:17.135000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:19.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
還有包括地方制度法你們有沒有打算要修？ |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:20.137000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:20.637000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
地方制度法…… |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:20.657000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:23.399000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
你要保留一個重修的可能性，有沒有可能？ |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:23.399000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:24.399000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
地方制度法當然…… |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:23.719000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:24.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
因為為什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:24.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:26.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
部長，我提醒你一點。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:26.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:34.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
如果將來真的有要執行所謂3,753億的時候，那個困擾的可能不是你，地方政府很困擾喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
0.914 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:34.924000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:35.145000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:36.205000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:40.289000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
如果今天拿到的錢是直接把它分掉，是福利，那很好處理啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:40.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2024-12-30T10:10:50.599000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
可是現在的錢，如果是要執行事情的話，那要耗費很多的人力，還有它今年度的施政計畫當中有沒有包括這3,753億，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
0.898 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2024-12-30T10:10:52.901000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:03.028000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
對，因為在中央統籌分費稅款，我們會在年度開始的4個月之前就通知各地方政府次年可以分得多少，它就根據這樣子去編列預算。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:03.388000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:05.390000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
所以它原來的預算裡面並沒有含…… |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:05.390000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:06.390000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
並沒有3,753億嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:06.390000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:07.390000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
沒有含這個部分，沒有含。 |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
0.2 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:05.850000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:06.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
它工作計畫都沒有這些，它拿到這個錢要怎麼規劃，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:06.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:07.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
所以你從這個角度來說也是窒礙難行，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:07.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:11.469667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
對，這也就是說，我們認為垂直分配裡面，必須要配合事權的調整。 |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:11.469667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:14.967333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
對，配合事權的移轉。 |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:14.967333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:18.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
也就是說，事權沒有調整而只做支出分配的話，事實上它是一個不平衡的狀態。 |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[101].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[101].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:18.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[101].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:25.548000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].text |
所以部長，我要跟您說的是，你在之前溝通的部分著重於水平分配，接下來在中央分配的配置情況底下，或許將來他們遇到問題說，其實我真的不需要這麼多錢，這麼多錢可能會造成我的困擾的情況底下，你應該跟他們做一個對話，那你到底需要什麼樣的錢？ |
| transcript.gazette[101].quality |
0.61 |
| transcript.gazette[102].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[102].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:25.548000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[102].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:29.855000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].text |
也就是說，你要重修，與地方政府的對話這個部分你不要中斷啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[102].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[103].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[103].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:29.855000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[103].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:34.162000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].text |
好不好，有沒有可能？ |
| transcript.gazette[103].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[104].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[104].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:34.162000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[104].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:38.469000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].text |
謝謝委員的建議。 |
| transcript.gazette[104].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[105].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[105].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:38.469000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[105].end |
2024-12-30T10:11:42.776000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].text |
這個部分不要中斷啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[105].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[106].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[106].start |
2024-12-30T10:11:42.776000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[106].end |
2024-12-30T10:12:09.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].text |
我再請主計長一下，主計長，現在是宏觀調控的部分剩下2個可能性，一個是一般性的補助、一個計畫性的補助，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[106].quality |
0.83 |
| transcript.gazette[107].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[107].start |
2024-12-30T10:12:09.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[107].end |
2024-12-30T10:12:12.177000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].text |
計畫性的補助應該沒有什麼太大的問題，因為主控權在你嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[107].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[108].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[108].start |
2024-12-30T10:12:12.457000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[108].end |
2024-12-30T10:12:14.645000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].text |
是不是？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[108].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[109].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[109].start |
2024-12-30T10:12:16.026000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[109].end |
2024-12-30T10:12:33.824000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].text |
那一般性的補助因為已經被匡列，可是因為行政院主計總處一直講說，114年度的是2,501億，感覺上是115年所謂這個法才會執行一樣，但事實上不得少於修正施行的前一年，113年度其實是2,303億耶！2,303億。 |
| transcript.gazette[109].quality |
0.896 |
| transcript.gazette[110].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[110].start |
2024-12-30T10:12:37.567000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[110].end |
2024-12-30T10:12:37.967000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].text |
精確的講法是2,303億耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[110].quality |
0.556 |
| transcript.gazette[111].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[111].start |
2024-12-30T10:12:39.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[111].end |
2024-12-30T10:12:39.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].text |
是，2,303億。對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[111].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[112].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[112].start |
2024-12-30T10:12:40.228000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[112].end |
2024-12-30T10:12:57.916000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].text |
是2,303億，不是2,501億，所以這種情況底下我必須說，一般性補助應該也不是毫無條件說要補就補，你總是要有一個執行的標準，它的效率、它的執行力要怎麼樣，你要不要給這筆錢有沒有一個標準在？ |
| transcript.gazette[112].quality |
0.937 |
| transcript.gazette[113].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[113].start |
2024-12-30T10:12:59.762000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[113].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:20.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].text |
因為一般性補助主要是在有不均衡的部分，我們給它一些的協助，所以主要是第一個，縣市有差短的部分，我們優先來補助；第二個，我們會補助它教育、社會、還有基本設施相關的部分，那它錢都已經夠了，這些補助應該就不用了。 |
| transcript.gazette[113].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[114].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[114].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:20.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[114].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:21.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].text |
就不用了嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[114].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[115].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[115].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:21.248000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[115].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:22.749000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].text |
所以它主要的一些項目都已經不用…… |
| transcript.gazette[115].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[116].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[116].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:22.909000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[116].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:28.171000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].text |
所以你要把一般性補助跟所謂的統籌重疊的部分抓出來大概多少億？ |
| transcript.gazette[116].quality |
0.862 |
| transcript.gazette[117].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[117].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:28.811000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[117].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:29.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].text |
你有沒有抓過？有。 |
| transcript.gazette[117].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[118].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[118].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:29.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[118].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:32.411000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].text |
大概多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[118].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[119].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[119].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:32.411000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[119].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:33.351000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].text |
基本設施相關補助是1,042億。1,042億。 |
| transcript.gazette[119].quality |
0.538 |
| transcript.gazette[120].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[120].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:33.351000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[120].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:34.351000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].text |
差短補助目前已經很少了…… |
| transcript.gazette[120].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[121].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[121].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:33.451000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[121].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:34.652000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].text |
也就是在這兩千多億當中，還有1,042億是重疊的？是的。 |
| transcript.gazette[121].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[122].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[122].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:34.932000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[122].end |
2024-12-30T10:13:36.112000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].text |
就是以後可以縮減的空間啦！是。好。 |
| transcript.gazette[122].quality |
0.786 |
| transcript.gazette[123].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[123].start |
2024-12-30T10:13:46.276000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[123].end |
2024-12-30T10:14:39.960000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].text |
另外一個部分，我必須要跟你講，你這個主計長擔子很重，我剛剛講說，除了未來要走雙軌、現在要走雙軌之外，你現在還面臨2個問題，行政權有它的行政權政策規劃主張要落實，立法院現在是在野黨多數，它也想要透過立法的方式來指揮行政權，譬如之前的禁伐補助多了25億、之前公糧補助多了90億、最近的65歲免健保費又多65億，也就是說，落選的總統候選人要完成他的政見，透過立法的方式來執行；當選的總統候選人也有他的政見要執行，你變成要執行2個，一個當選的，一個是落選的，3,753億對他們來說是輔選的，也就是說，他們未來要輔選縣市首長的選舉。 |
| transcript.gazette[123].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[124].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[124].start |
2024-12-30T10:14:40.521000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[124].end |
2024-12-30T10:14:40.721000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].text |
當選的政見也要落實、落選的也要執行，這樣的財政會負擔得了嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[124].quality |
0.333 |
| transcript.gazette[125].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[125].start |
2024-12-30T10:14:40.721000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[125].end |
2024-12-30T10:14:49.267000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].text |
我只問你一個問題，有沒有可能舉債？ |
| transcript.gazette[125].quality |
0.067 |
| transcript.gazette[126].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[126].start |
2024-12-30T10:14:49.267000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[126].end |
2024-12-30T10:14:50.830000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].text |
如果要執行當政者的這個狀況，還有落選的狀況，那你會不會舉債？ |
| transcript.gazette[126].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[127].speaker |
陳主計長淑姿 |
| transcript.gazette[127].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:02.017000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[127].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:03.658000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].text |
這個舉債的部分，要請財政部…… |
| transcript.gazette[127].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[128].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[128].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:03.938000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[128].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:05.620000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].text |
好，財政部來，15%嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[128].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[129].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[129].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:06.941000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[129].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:09.102000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].text |
我跟你算過，總共2,685億。 |
| transcript.gazette[129].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[130].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[130].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:11.444000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[130].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:17.129000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].text |
對，舉債，其實我想各位委員也都重視所謂的財政紀律，希望我們的財務有所控管…… |
| transcript.gazette[130].quality |
0.636 |
| transcript.gazette[131].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[131].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:17.309000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[131].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:17.910000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].text |
財政紀律，不輕易舉債。 |
| transcript.gazette[131].quality |
0.556 |
| transcript.gazette[132].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[132].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:18.730000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[132].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:22.453000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].text |
對，而且公共債務法裡面也有流量和存量的管制。 |
| transcript.gazette[132].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[133].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[133].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:22.453000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[133].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[133].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:23.453000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[133].text |
也有15%的限制。對，15%。 |
| transcript.gazette[133].quality |
0.25 |
| transcript.gazette[134].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[134].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:23.374000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[134].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[134].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:24.475000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[134].text |
即便15%你全部舉債，到2,685億，28%，3,753億，你還是補助不到，還是差1,000億嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[134].quality |
0.741 |
| transcript.gazette[135].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[135].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:24.615000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[135].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[135].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:25.075000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[135].text |
而且財政要有韌性來因應…… |
| transcript.gazette[135].quality |
0.727 |
| transcript.gazette[136].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[136].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:25.175000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[136].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[136].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:25.315000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[136].text |
財政紀律要維持嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[136].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[137].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[137].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:25.315000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[137].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[137].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:26.315000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[137].text |
對，財政紀律要維持…… |
| transcript.gazette[137].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[138].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[138].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:25.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[138].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[138].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:26.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[138].text |
那我問你，現在財政紀律有辦法維持嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[138].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[139].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[139].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:26.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[139].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[139].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:26.676000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[139].text |
當選的要落實他的政見，落選的要落實他的政見。 |
| transcript.gazette[139].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[140].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[140].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:42.909000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[140].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[140].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:45.470000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[140].text |
財政要留有一定的空間，不能全部把它用掉…… |
| transcript.gazette[140].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[141].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[141].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:45.650000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[141].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[141].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:47.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[141].text |
可是你要面對政治的現實啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[141].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[142].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[142].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:47.810000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[142].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[142].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:53.172000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[142].text |
比如像發生疫情等等的時候，國家必須要有財政的能力來去因應。 |
| transcript.gazette[142].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[143].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[143].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:53.332000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[143].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[143].end |
2024-12-30T10:15:57.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[143].text |
那是後面的部分，你還有一個舉債2.8兆，那個是預留未來的變數，我可以理解嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[143].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[144].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[144].start |
2024-12-30T10:15:58.873000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[144].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[144].end |
2024-12-30T10:16:09.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[144].text |
但是現階段你就面臨一個雙重的問題，落選的要落實他的政見，當選的要落實他的政見，否則你難道不執行當選的政見，要執行落選的嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[144].quality |
0.911 |
| transcript.gazette[145].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[145].start |
2024-12-30T10:16:09.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[145].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[145].end |
2024-12-30T10:16:10.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[145].text |
我們有施政方案跟施政計畫都應該要落實推動。 |
| transcript.gazette[145].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[146].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[146].start |
2024-12-30T10:16:10.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[146].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[146].end |
2024-12-30T10:16:11.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[146].text |
對，當然是以現在行政權掌握者的施政方針為優先，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[146].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[147].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[147].start |
2024-12-30T10:16:11.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[147].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[147].end |
2024-12-30T10:16:12.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[147].text |
是，有施政計畫要去推動。 |
| transcript.gazette[147].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[148].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[148].start |
2024-12-30T10:16:12.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[148].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[148].end |
2024-12-30T10:16:13.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[148].text |
謝謝，主計長，你有聽到喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[148].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[149].speaker |
郭委員國文 |
| transcript.gazette[149].start |
2024-12-30T10:16:13.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[149].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[149].end |
2024-12-30T10:16:14.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[149].text |
要以現在當選的行政權主政者的政見落實為優先啦。 |
| transcript.gazette[149].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[150].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[150].start |
2024-12-30T10:16:09.796000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[150].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[150].end |
2024-12-30T10:16:10.016000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[150].text |
好，謝謝郭國文委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[150].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[151].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[151].start |
2024-12-30T10:16:10.516000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[151].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[151].end |
2024-12-30T10:16:13.373143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[151].text |
接著我們請賴惠員委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[151].quality |
0 |