| IVOD_ID |
15845 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15845 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-24T08:31:47+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-24T12:19:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:47:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc1c34ab709cdaffb07931ae751f1d07213be8d109af184be41a3e2fa17c92ea065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長率所屬相關單位列席就「如何透過行政簡化、訴訟減量與科技運用以降低基層司法體系負擔之成效與精進期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:47 - 12:19:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1775.223 |
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1800.923 |
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報告委員會出席委員9人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議議事錄實現中華民國113年4月22日星期一上午9時1分至10時18分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員黃委員郭昌等13人練習委員鄭委員天才等9人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1801.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1816.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
列席官員．立法院秘書長周萬來等人．主席中召集委員嘉賓．報告事項．宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定．討論事項．審查民進黨黨團擬拒立法院組織法部分條文修正草案等9案．民進黨黨團提案已說明完畢．經表決通過散會動議．宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1823.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1849.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
好,由於在場委員不足人數,我們待會議事部再進行確定那接下來介紹應邀列席官員那麼應邀列席官員,我們歡迎司法院吳三龍秘書長,歡迎您以及法務部蔡欣祥部長,歡迎您好,那其他的未及介紹的列席代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹,並列入公報記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1852.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1872.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那本次議程邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長率所屬相關單位列席就:「如何透過行政簡化、訴訟減量與科技運用以降低基層司法體系負擔之成效與精進期程．進行專題報告．並備質詢。」那麼現在介紹在場委員我們羅志強委員歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1881.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1883.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
現在進行報告發言時間5分鐘請司法院吳秘聰報告主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1901.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1923.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
各位委員．法務部蔡部長．各位機關代表．各位先生．各位女士本人僅代表司法院就本日的專題進行報告一共有7點進行指教第一點民事訴訟部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1924.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1942.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那麼有透過修正民事訴訟法第249條第249條之一有關個案濫訴防度的法制那麼另外也有修正民事訴訟法第486條 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1945.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1965.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
規定看告經過裁定法院以不合法或原法院以未繳納裁判會而不合法為由裁定駁回確定或再申請再審或以其他方法聲明不符則不勝效力以免無謂耗費司法職員經過這些有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1971.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1978.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
防止濫訴的這些規範之後在新法實施前111年統計有3000件該類濫訴的案件經過修法之後有獲得改善第二點是關於辦理調解業務績效逐年成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1997.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2012.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
106年開始有設置完成視訊外紛爭解決機構查詢平台方便民眾查詢使用根據統計各地方法院辦理的調解終結建樹 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2017.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2045.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
從106年的10萬多件那逐年增加到112年的18萬多件成長78.84%所以這個也有顯著的成效那另外在第二點就是關於刑事訴訟部分那麼為了合理分配司法資源減輕基層司法人員的工作負擔那麼本院之前已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2047.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2070.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
提案修正刑事訴訟法關於限縮第三審上訴罪名及擴大第一審獨任審判範圍已經修法通過有獲得部分的改善為了要進一步提升審判效能對於坦誠犯罪案情相對單純明確的類型見過 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2077.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2102.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
分流制的刑事訴訟,所以嚴厲修正刑事訴訟法在第一審的部分擴大檢視審判程序的適用範圍第二審的部分,就第一審已經合法調查過當事人吳正義的證據二審法院就不再進行重複調查可實現有效率的刑事訴訟,減輕審理案件的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2108.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2133.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那第三點在刑事訴訟部分在112年8月15日修正的刑事訴訟法新制那麼在刑事訴訟法第219條第228條之一以及第二篇第一章第8節那麼有完善的替代裁判的紛爭解決機制並且依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2137.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2141.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第107條、249條徵定個案濫訴防度的規定相關制度書簡訟言協助當事人合意來解決紛爭有效減輕司法人員的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2155.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2175.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第四點是關於少年及家事事件部分這一部分我們也是從108年開始就推行精進的法院家事調解業務這一部分也都有從統計資料來看也都有很顯著的一個績效達到疏減重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2178.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2205.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第五點是推動裁判書的簡化這個是我們現在列為一個很重要的一個重點在本院在推動裁判書簡化列為我們的施政計畫的重要事項才在剛上個月25日本院所舉辦的司法所長業務座談會 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2208.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2216.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
有提供民宿廳、刑事廳、行政廳會前所研擬的有關裁判書簡化原則還有參考規範請各法院能夠來朝這個方向努力第6點是關於租姓運用科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2229.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2230.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第7點也一併 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2255.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2268.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
請行政部門能夠協助投資更多的人力資源以降低司法同仁的工作負擔那麼我們也有提出這個有關的附件還有有關數據那確實從103年到102年那麼案件成長率達到28%那麼未結案也成長96%所以我們很期盼這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2281.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2309.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
目前要清理基案這個是一個非常艱困人力非常的需要我們提出的清潔位置案件急迫需求人力有5536人這一部分麻煩請期盼我們人事行政總署等行政部門能夠協助以這個來解決我們目前的困難非常感謝 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2314.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2333.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 謝謝秘書長那在進行下一個報告之前因為會場委員已把法定人數我們先處理請問各位對於上次的會議意思錄有錯或遺漏沒有喔沒有的話那我們意思錄確定好 那接下來請法務部蔡部長報告時間5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2342.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2353.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席、各位委員、各位先進今天奉邀到貴委員會代表法務部列席報告並備質詢那將報告如下,敬請各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2354.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2378.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
檢察官肩負犯罪偵查,面對近年來與日俱增的刑事案件,犯罪守法日新月異的積極偵查挑戰,工作負擔日益沉重。而檢察官辦案輔助人力,包括檢察事務官、書記官等亦隨之加重負擔,面臨到人力不足的困境。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2379.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2386.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
因此在人力方面本部除了向行政院積極爭取新增檢查機關員額在109年增援了110位110年增援了187位從111年到114年合計分4年有600位 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2399.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2421.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
此外．更積極地爭取禁用檢察官助理．推動檢察官助理的法制化．其能充實檢察機關的輔助能力．在行政簡化、訴訟減量．與科技運用上也積極地研修法制．並實施各項的改善方案．以疏減工作負荷在行政簡化方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2422.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2443.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那第一,我們推動了幫助詐欺被告全國總歸戶的計畫就單純提供帳戶、帳號或門號的幫助詐欺案件本部推動總歸戶計畫,針對同一被告帳戶、帳號或門號內的所有被害人應集中到被告戶籍地的司法警察機關統一調查並進行後續的移送 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2446.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2455.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
未來會先經有審查程序以後才分案交由檢察官來偵辦,其能有效降低詐欺案件量。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2457.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2480.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
推行立案審查中心、試刑調解中心各地檢成立的立案審查中心跟試刑調解中心等任務編組將地檢署收受的案件進行分流由專人直接處理濫訴、檢疫及自白案件的偵查與結案有助檢查人力的調節及資源合理分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2482.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2501.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
3.經檢查扣案的分案及結案規定本部會避免查扣案分案過於腐爛將限縮符合以查扣特定類型犯罪所得者以及經檢察長或檢察官認為分查扣案必要者才分查扣案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2503.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2531.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第四,精進書類的簡化,以犯罪嫌疑不足的不起訴處分書作為優先對象,頒布適用於所有案件類型不起訴處分書的簡化格式。第五,研議不起訴處分定型化的可行性,研議定型化立稿供檢察官參用。第六,成立合理化檢察官工作負擔研議小組,定期召集會議,提出可行的具體作為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2533.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2550.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第二,在訴訟減量方面第一,推動修法從源頭遏阻詐欺犯罪本部擬拒了《洗錢防治法》第15條之一無正當理由收集帳戶罪第15條之二,無正當理由交付或提供帳戶罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2552.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2570.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
並減輕檢察官證明主觀犯意的負擔本部已經擬拒了《洗錢防治法》第15條之二第6項帳戶帳號暫停限制功能或禁與關閉的管理辦法改革再議的制度避免案件重複發回 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2572.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2590.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
對於第二次以上送在意的案件若偵查未完備,上級檢察署以自行偵查為原則,減少在意案件發回次數,避免案件重復發回。偵查中運用調解修復式司法醫療調解案件,得暫時簽請報決。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2594.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2610.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
鼓勵運用訴訟外分針解決機制,減輕檢察官的案件負荷與壓力。通盤檢討實體法可處罪化的罪名,或就部分犯罪擴大告訴哪一項罪的可惜性。在科技運用方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2611.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2636.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第一,我們發展檢察機關AI智慧輔助系統本部在110年到112年進行3年期的檢察機關AI智慧輔助系統包括AI自動生成9架案件、結案書類出稿並自動判讀是否構成累犯或AI系統自動產製人頭戶詐欺案件被害人匯款付表 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2637.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2638.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
AI系統自動辨識數位見證還有間接警訊筆錄的電子檔在內勤徵訊時自動代錄為徵訊亭的筆錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2650.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2670.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本部在113年至115年會持續推動三年期的檢察機關AI智慧輔助系統建置計畫．包括AI自動生成難度較高的案件結案書類出稿．擴大數位資料的借接．以AI判讀被告前科表等 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2672.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2693.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
至於內勤人犯以遠距視訊來解送遇到輕罪且被告自白者經被告同意並記名筆錄後檢察官可以准以檢方以視訊方式解送這個做法已經推展到全國的地檢署、機關、當事人反應都非常正面 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2694.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2719.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
建制司法聯盟區塊鏈,強化數位證據的驗證效能,確保同一性與真實性,減少政務監管人力負擔。推動RFID科技化章政務庫管理系統,精確監控扣押物移轉歷程,將槍、彈、毒品、貴重物品及死刑證物妥適保存。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2721.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2743.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
最後導入科技偵查犯罪提升偵查效能各地檢成立了科技偵查指揮中心具有七大科偵的功能另外建構金融資料查調電子化平台創設科技偵查輔助平台整合台高間具有的各類資料庫最後結語 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2746.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2764.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
108年檢察機關全國新收偵探箱案件數為58萬多到112年新收案件已經達到85萬多件呈現了逐年递增的一個狀況而偵查檢察官112年每月平均新收案件高達110件 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2767.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2789.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
偵查終結平均每件所需的日數是61.5天也就是說檢察官必須在很短的時間內終結大量的新收案件工作負荷是很重的本部除了持續從法制面、業務面持續改善檢察機關的工作環境外去年因應打炸業務向行政院爭取的檢察官助理100人 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2790.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2813.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
各地檢運用成效良好．本部任有比照法官助理、偵測檢察官助理法制化的必要．亦提出了法院組織法的修正草案．積極向司法院、行政院、人事、行政總署說明．期盼能夠迅速地完成修法．敬請大院予以支持以上報告 敬請主席、各位委員指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2815.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2842.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好 謝謝法務部蔡部長其餘機關報告請參與書面那麼機關代表報告完畢相關書面報告內容列入公報記錄現在開始進行詢答本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10點30分截止發言登記請登記第一位的省委員發會質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2857.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2871.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席 我們先請司法院秘書長好 請秘書長好 秘書長早我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2873.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2892.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
今天本會安排這個議程最主要就是在近期大家非常關注有關於4月12號有法官墜樓以及後續的白花運動也在2月的時候有書記官過勞死的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2898.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2921.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
因此我想這樣的相關的議題,這些事情其實就國人來講大家是真的是同感悲欺但是我們司法院作為我們司法的最高的機構我想對於相關的問題我們應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2924.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2940.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
應該是要有所,第一要對社會有所回應第二我們應該也要有所作為一方面我們要滿足於這個社會對於這個司法爭議的要求另外一方面我們也要注重到我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2941.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2968.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
司法從業人員的這個相關的這些目前的這個業務量過大的這個問題我想我們都應該司法機關責無旁貸司法院責無旁貸那這個我看了你們的這個這個書面報告也看了很多裡面有提到就是說是意思大概就是說我們司法院過去有做比如說我們提出來的最主要的一件事情就是我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2969.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2973.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
110年的1月我們針對這個民事訴訟法249條我們做了修訂修訂了249條第8款跟增訂了249條之一的這個裁罰的條文最主要就是我們針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2991.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3006.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這個．如果這個起訴是基於惡意．或者基於不當的目的．或者有重大的過失．然後事實上．而且他事實上或法律上的主張欠缺合理依據那這樣子我們249條第8項是規定可以裁定駁回那249條之一就明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3013.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3038.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
加以裁罰啦齁那這個這個這樣子的修法立法當然就是其實簡單講就是要避免降低這個個案爛數的數目嘛對不對是這樣子嘛但是我們就就如果說這個是我們我們在訴訟報告我們也提了這個部分就意思說我們過去有做了這個但是我們就要看說那修法之後這個修法到底是不是有有效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3039.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3063.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
降低了這個爛數這個這個個案爛數是不是有效的降低啦齁那我就就檢視我們這個我們地方法我就地方法院的民事案件的終結數啦齁來來看從100這個這個我現在列表這個是103年開始但是我只我們就只看100110年修法之後的這三年這三年我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3066.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3092.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
幾乎還是年年增長一百一十二年增加到增加了三十萬件這個增加了將近七趴那一百一十一年相對一百一十年將增加了九趴也就是說我這樣子我看這個數字來講我們一百一十一百一十年的這個修法有關個案爛速的民事訴訟法兩百 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3095.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3100.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
249條的修法事實上看起來好像並沒有達到我們想要的效果是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3102.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3124.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這個只是訴訟案件的一部分而已像現在增加很多不是屬於這個範圍的所以這個畢竟還是屬於一部分而已可以說是一部分那我們秘書長意思說這個當然這個案件是增加這案件量增加有很多因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3125.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3145.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那我要講的只是說110年的修法之後顯然我們說我們有針對這個我們做的這個修法但這個修法他事實上成效非常有限成效非常其實成效非常有限一小部分而已很小部分多小部分呢我們實際看看你真正這三年來就從110年3月開始到111年我這統計到111113年的2月統計到今年2月 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3153.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3172.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們整個這個民事整個有關民事訴訟法的部分有有這個個案爛數的駁回的總共這樣子三年時間只有288件了也就是我們這修法的效益在三年之內只有288件那實際249條之一進行裁罰的總共全個三年全國才53件了 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3183.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3207.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
53件裡面臺北地方法院就佔了14件扣掉之後幾乎幾乎這個修法簡單講這個修法裁罰我想這個成效基本上是非常低的啦這個秘書長是說明一下像士林地方法院這個算是案件量相當大的他整個三年來進行裁罰的才一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3208.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3223.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
因為這種修法他有他積極面啦就當事人他看到這個修法之後他也會盡量避免去提出來所以所以這個這個一部分也達到惡質的功效惡質功效 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3225.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3247.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
有,這秘書長意思說除了這個數字,這個數字是發生了,包括駁回的,包括裁罰的,這個之外,還有一些在心理上就惡煮。就惡煮了。惡煮了他們這個個案濫訴的狀況。就是有修法他就會有明文規定了。有啦,我沒有反對修法,我只是講說,這個修法事實上看起來,我個人看起來是認為說成效其實, |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3248.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3276.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
其實相當...就我們目前的司法人員的這個工作量來講成效是...是相當小啦最重要的也是你們在書面報告裡面一再提的其實最重要的是...是人力需求的增加啦 對不對人力需求...就是案件...而且環雜度增加了社會變遷...對 好環雜度是一個啦那人...你們基本上就認為人力不足這個也是...這個也是一個很重要這個是一個...一個... |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3277.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3293.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
一個很重要而且蠻根本的原因啦蠻根本的原因但是我看你們的目前的這個我們司法院的所屬機關人力的法定員額的上限是一萬五千人一萬五千人對不對我們的法定員額上限是是是那我們現在已經達到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3295.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3309.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
現在一百十三年度的預算緣額我們實際上的預算緣額達到多少一萬四千一萬四千五百零八人就剩下四百九十二個名額而已基本上是緊繃了啦緊繃啦緊繃就算讓你補到所謂法定緣額上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3316.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3322.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以我們提出就是最基本的就是目前需求就達到5536人所以我們是很期盼能夠改這個總言而法 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3338.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3359.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
司法院第一步要趕快去解決這個總原額法你要跟人事行政總署要趕快先解決這個問題解決了之後才有後面人力需求到底可以補不能補的問題嗎報告委員那因為這主政的法規主政機關是人事行政總署對人事行政我就說你們要盡快的跟人事而且在現在社會大家有共識對於這個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3362.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3391.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
司法從業人員的工作量有共識的時候我覺得這時候我們司法院就應該要展現這個態度就從總緣合法這個部分先來調整調整之後才有人力需求能不能補足的問題你第一關都沒有過你要五千多人欸五千多人你們現在緣合只剩下五百多人的緣合所以很謝謝委員這個是最重要的一點所以司法院現在要做的當務之急首要之急當務之急就是跟人事行政總署就 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3392.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3402.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
預算緣額總數的部分先做調整要突破上限啦對 那個上限要做調整這個是司法院現在目前當務之急該做的工作 對不對是是 謝謝 非常謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3405.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3427.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
接著除了人力需求以外我看你們報告也提到說透過行政簡化訴訟減量用科技降低基層司法體系負擔之成效有關裁判書簡化的部分你們也研議了裁判書簡化的方式到目前為止進度怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3430.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3452.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這個就這幾年來就列為重點啦那這當然涉及到裡面我們裡面的同仁也要朝這個方向一起來努力啦不是努力啦你們這個有關裁判書簡化你們應該有一些制式的規定的制式的什麼樣可以朝什麼樣的方向簡化不然你要法官個人自己現在去簡化裁判書 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3454.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3474.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
報告委員,所以我們在上個月25號舉辦的所長會議我們有三個廳,民事、刑事、刑程廳就有會前也經過好幾個月時間研擬各種簡化原則還有參考範例作為一個遵行的指引發布了嗎?發布給這些法官嗎?現在開始實施你們所謂簡化的判決書的 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3482.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3486.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
的這個相關的這個相關的這個格式你們已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3487.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3513.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
都在所長會議都正式發布了正式發布了那目前實施上面就這些就目前的法官他們有依照我們所制定的這些新的這些規範來進行裁判書的簡化嗎所以我們一定要加強來宣導我知道你們要加強啦我今天在這裡意思就是要你加強啦這個這些齁其實手段我們都已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3515.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3538.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們司法院最清楚到底要怎麼解決目前司法委員過勞的部分而且你們也都提出了一些方法但是這些方法到底有做沒有做我再重複一遍喔最重要的我們預算緣額總數請司法院在這段時間積極的跟人事行政總數來爭取好不好謝謝 謝謝好 謝謝沈委員 謝謝吳秘書長接下來有請羅委員志強發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3551.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3573.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
主席有請我們的部長跟秘書長請吳秘書長和蔡部長委員好部長在來談法官過勞之前有一個非常重大的題目我要來就教於你 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3574.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3594.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
昨天大法官做這個死刑辯論 對不對那我看到大法官問了一個問題他說一定要跟民意妥協嗎請問部長能不能幫我解讀一下大法官這句話是什麼意思他意思就是要跟民意對著幹的意思了嗎這是大法官的見解我們予以尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3601.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3616.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我要跟部長說過去我們在司法法制委員會我非常敬佩部長 知道為什麼嗎我看到我們榮介修獲很多委員質詢死刑的問題我覺得言者尊尊啊大法官聽者渺渺啊你那時候有講到八成的民意反對廢除死刑 是不是我們有了解到這個趨勢對 然後也提出要司法自治嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3631.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3660.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這句話不是我說的我有看到你們法務部有談到至少你們講要尊重立法權嘛 對不對沒錯吧我們認為應該尊重代表民意的立法機關答對阿 非常好阿可是今天我要非常不客氣的說大法官問出這句話一定要跟民意妥協嗎那不就是大法官已經透露他的新政了 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3662.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3686.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
今天他就是要跟民意對著幹了嗎我這邊也要說今天法務部代表今天說真的大法官這個所謂的死刑的辯論好像只剩下法務部今天能夠代表跟大法官部這個所推的一些所有的一些意見不相同的一個意見能夠代表八成民意就是剩下法務部啦是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3687.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3714.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我們一貫的立場就是尊重法律的規定現行的死刑規定我們的立場就認為是合憲的我要在這邊特別跟部長說一件事也跟我們的司法院的秘書長說一件事情大法官不是上帝啦大法官如果司法過動本身就是一種違憲的一個行為今天八成以上的民意反對廢除死刑我非常認同法務部說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3716.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3741.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
今天如果真的覺得死刑要被廢除那也應該回到國會讓國會來立法廢除現在大法官全部都是民進黨提名的啦請問民意基礎在哪裡憑什麼今天少數而且是代退大法官這大法官你這麼長的任期你要廢除死刑早點廢啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3743.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3749.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
你到準備要這個所謂的要卸任了神龍百尾啊稀釋回眸啊什麼意思啊我這邊也鄭重宣布今天大法官如果侵犯立法、背叛民意本席不會接受啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3763.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3786.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我在大安區參選立法委員我的政見就是我反對廢除死刑我代表反對廢除死刑名義進到立法院以後今天對於所謂的大法官侵犯立法權來去廢除死刑的話我無法接受將來在立法的時候我想請問部長大法官一旦作出死刑違憲的判決之後接下來會要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3787.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3805.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
接下來怎麼辦我們有準備各種方案就看大法官最後憲法法院怎麼做解釋我們都有事先都預擬好了如果說是違憲呢我們有應對的方法什麼應對方法有各種方法什麼各種方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3807.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3829.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
部長抱歉喔我對你都一直很尊敬喔你今天不要在這邊損及我對你的尊敬喔具體的方法是什麼你不能告訴我嗎具體的方法如果他認為該怎麼樣我們就怎麼樣嘛什麼叫該怎麼樣怎麼樣他說你死刑違憲啊我直接說啦接下來立法院就要配合修法對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3831.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3860.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
按照憲法 按照這個所謂的大法官如果認為違憲的話立法院要配合修法 把所有死刑全部廢掉 是不是這個意思呃 看他最後的解釋文怎麼樣 該修法我直接告訴 我直接告訴部長我絕對不會配合修法啦今天我會說民進黨的立委 你敢配合修法嗎我要事先都講了今天廢除死刑 是崩潰我們社會法治的基礎啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3861.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3886.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
在這邊我跟你講我今天用這些話雖然講得重我是為大法官好我真怕今天憲法法庭的辯論真正人民的聲音他沒有聽進去他沒有聽進去這麼重大的憲政爭議過去大法官解釋死刑合不合憲請問部長過去的解釋是合憲的答對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3887.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3897.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
你今天要來挑戰過去的大法官挑戰當前八成的民意挑戰立法院的憲政尊嚴羅志強是不會退讓的啦將來如果進到立法院要配合修法我第一個反對修法啦你要做憲政危機、憲政僵局、憲政爭議大法官我跟你對著幹啦我講白就是這麼一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3913.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3937.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
昨天聽到這句話我非常的不爽啊什麼叫做一定要跟民意妥協你是上帝嗎?你是上帝嗎?前面的憲法的四憲講得清清楚楚合憲現在的八成民意反對廢除死刑而法務部也告訴大家要廢除死刑應該由立法決定三重侵犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3939.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3953.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
還沒有把這個憲法法庭的最後的解釋出來我在這邊只是先做預告真的拜託拜託拜託拜託拜託再拜託我們大法官好好傾聽這些被害者的聲音啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3956.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3972.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這些被害者在家屬在暗處哭泣的聲音請他們聽一聽這八成民意強烈的反對請他們聽一聽立法院的憲政尊嚴請他們聽一聽過去大法官認為死刑核限的這些前輩們的聲音請這些大法官聽一聽如果這樣硬著幹我跟你講就是憲政危機第二個我就要問我們的法官過豪的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3986.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4011.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
非常沉痛今天必須用一個法官一個書記官的生命來去告訴大家今天法官過了現在我們的司法你可以看到案件大幅增加是不是秘書長大幅增加我們2016到2023年地方法院受理案件數從308萬增加到391萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4015.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4017.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
漲幅27%那我想請教我們現在的法官他是從2016的2071人變成2196人只成長6%請問秘書長這些法官過去這麼多年來的過勞的心聲我們的司法院有掌握嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4042.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4045.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我要跟各位說,去年司法院在立法院報告的時候是希望把員額提高到22000人嘛,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4060.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4087.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這是以10年期的期程來報告來估算那今天的報告是說預算是估算需求差5536人那我想請問司法院如果以短中期3到5年來看需要多少元額大概我們目前是期盼我就是提出來這個5536人我跟秘書長說今天司法過了痛苦的不只是司法人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4088.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4108.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
其實對於訴訟當事人也是如此因為他會降低司法的裁判品質你今天就讓司法人面臨兩難嘛一個就壓榨生命跟身體嘛 對不對那另外一個就是讓案件的訴訟品質下降這兩件事情對司法對全國官都不是好事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4109.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4131.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所以在這邊我知道上一屆委員有提案但因為新國會藉其不連續的關係所以上一屆的一些相關法要重新提出我這邊也說我願意當我們的基層司法人員的後盾所以對於中央政府機關總原額法第4條修正案提高第三類司法院及所屬機關職員的原額上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4132.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4155.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這部分我已經擬好了也會開始連述希望我們一起共同的來終結司法過勞改善司法品質就從修法開始所以也希望說今天我們的行政部門特別其他包括人事行政總署、考試院權序部還有法務部相關的單位其實司法官過勞不是法官而已啦對不對部長也包括檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4159.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4181.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
對 檢察官就是司法官還包括了輔助人力檢察事務官還有包括書記官法警都是我們要注意要考量其實檢察機關也非常辛苦我覺得案件減量可能不只是透過員額而已還有包括說今天怎麼讓案件更親自分工這個部分我也會提出一些意見提供法務部參考 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4183.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4211.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
好,謝謝羅委員、謝謝兩位秘書長、部長接下來有請謝委員、榮介發言主席,我請補充到秘書充一下好,有請秘書長、部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4213.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4231.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
秘書長 非常心疼用在優秀的司法人員的姓名還可以喚起大家對這個司法改革突顯到這裡的人司法人員的辦案的壓力這麼大我感覺這對我們的社會他們所付出的代價最大你有這樣的感覺嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4243.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4262.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
當然是深切感受你為了這樣再來提出這個改革醫化越多智能化越多結果司法人員壓力越大這是內部有問題啊不是法官有問題啊尤其是大法官還在會議我頂多就問過你了你告訴我你都沒態度你不是大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4272.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4275.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
你要有一個態度出來嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4275.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4276.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
台灣官如果會試就對了! |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4276.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4279.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
阿伯在案訴驚會更多!訴我領完本人的案例就對了! |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4279.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4279.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
會更大! |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4279.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4279.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4279.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4280.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
是不是這樣?這是一個骨鐵屬性的! |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4280.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4281.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
阿台灣官都不用討論! |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4281.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4282.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
大家都吃飯卡中了! |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4282.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4283.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
能做到台灣官還在吃飯卡中? |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4283.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4283.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
靠! |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4299.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4304.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
尤其像我本人 立法院的立法官 當初我就跟你說過 保證你一生就對了 做一個司法人員 會做個保證我跟你說 已經是對你的司法性愛 已經是完美的一個過程了但最後 在最後這個階段 你如果能夠再發揮你的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4326.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4330.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
可以在這個灰燈熄熄的地方在前面辯論你的訴求有證明你在這裡跟本席的答覆說你準備好了沒有顧及人民的感情什麼叫做要看民意作為為什麼不用看民意作為如果司法不用顧及民意沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4353.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4361.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
當時司法可以傷害人民對地安、基台的感情嗎?你有沒有看到我們現在的年輕人在吃頭肉?去應徵!去我們陪你!再出國!動輒可以一個月給你五六萬!結果回來台灣的時候藥劑減一粒!某種就負減一項! |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4380.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4387.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
先祭 去擁歌不是在國外的 不是在政府在內是在台灣的先祭 送死小女孩在我們這麼多北海 炸片這麼多你還在那裡灰燈熄熄實在講的齁 長者的發展自由齁 隆重 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4408.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4432.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
比算到幾個 沒錯比算到幾個 十幾個十幾個就像在拔河就對了 柴拔也贏 經酸臭也贏經十五個就一百公斤的 對你們三四個就五十公斤的 你是要怎麼救的所以你幾乎靠民意把你停啦 八十四%的民意就是你的囂張啦 整個辯論下來 沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4438.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4450.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我在這裡告訴你 你有拿去贏了美國還沒有進步說進步的社會就要輝煞私營我聽你哭在哭的美國沒有進步美國整個州也是一樣私營 它都不去維新日本還沒有進步韓國還沒有進步新加坡還沒有進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4464.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4480.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
是如何他們的私營都沒有危險?是如何過去我們的私營都沒有危險?你現在要將它促成危險?剛才柯總召來我告訴你,我說台灣現在存兩個人,能把這個私營的心魄變成你的解說,當然要多存兩個人。存兩個人啊,你是第三個啊。第一個就發生在你的柯建民。 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4493.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4510.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
他跟我說他反對：他有發FB：說他要跟我站在一起我聽到很感動啦跟我站在一起沒用啦要跟人民站在一起 要跟正義站在一起啦臨權 什麼人沒有捍衛臨權啦你帶我去哪裡有捍衛臨權 我都沒有在捍衛臨權那些人去用台詞：他去台詞把人的信交收在那些人的臨權 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4519.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4528.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
事情發生後：做乾緩科、泰藍、泵灰色後：還要期待到法律讓他穩定：來紓克他的靈魂哇!你這個大法官是怎樣?大到三都請不下來看不就對整個辯論落來?你會看我 因為剛才你說到 盧委員在問你 我聽到你很害怕你配套都準備好了 你不知道想要退牛? |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4550.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4574.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這是你人生最好的一件 說什麼我們的立場很清楚我們已經表達了我們堅定的立場認為死刑的規定是合憲的但是大法官他們釋憲的結果是如何我無法預期但是他不管怎麼樣的結果我們都有預擬各種方案這段時間我已經在反映在鏡 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4576.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4589.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
只要我們的法官主宣就對了,復出社名的時候,這個人就像叫你去外面走走的,叫你在司法院玩就直接去外面走走的,這款司法委員就對了,給他解說出來的現法,你不開心他的革命他站在那裡,你不開心他的革命他站在那裡,所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4602.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4616.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
沒有顧及人民的感情甚至是傷害人民對司法的期待一點是極其依偎不可本身在這裡我跟你說你不能退牛因為你剛才說的不需要退牛阿爸有配套你都太好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4617.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4638.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
包括河瀉包括維瀉我們都要想清楚嘛要準備啦 當然所以...你選擇河瀉就好了啦 維瀉你不用想啦因為他選擇出來 你已經公認撤休啦所以這是你最好的一件你要在你理會前陣喔 做明確本席跟你請求啦本席代表共產黨的台灣人民 無奈的台灣人民在這裡跟你拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4647.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4673.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
你要離開法務部部長進行你三十名你對著緋毒私營合憲是合憲的私營是合憲的你公開發表因為你有能力會擋牛鑽乾坤還有另外一個就是羅清德我已經公開跟他互約了如果清德那些你今天不想表態不管你表態 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4675.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4686.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
待法官改帥之後若是違憲．未來在我們的奧法．台灣人民付出的代價．所有的政筆責任、特定責任．都是你老總統要去承擔． |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4691.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4710.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這對他不公平但是．他有能力．他若要重點不出聲．相對．他就要付出這個代價．在你司法臨生完畢的過程中．本席．你拜託．你能承諾嗎．在你要理會進行．針對．這個施行是合憲．來表達一個強力的心聲出來．給台灣人民． |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4721.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4746.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
法務部已經表達幾個半了我們的立場都很堅定了就是領域施行的規定是合憲的這已經很清楚了我們也發了好幾次的說明你用你個人最好做一番表達可以嗎現在我沒有我個人的信任我現在仍然是代表法務部啊你的意思就是五位五位你很快要表達就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4749.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4774.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
沒有啦,他這個還沒出來嘛,他的視線結果還沒出來嘛你還要捍衛啊我當然啦,我從頭到尾都捍衛在那裡啊你還要用合憑的角度去捍衛啊有啊,我沒改變啊,從頭到尾我們都一貫的立場啊你不能影響分析對你一生形象的角度呢感謝啦真的啊,你問他個人化學是不是很形象,他的興趣很豐盛 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4777.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4793.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
所以你看看 白白不想把我捏到後面 嘿 民進黨大家都這樣 保證你要替我造成咧 對不對 我們是站在公義和道義這邊 站在正義這邊 所以我強烈在這裡 包括台法官跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4796.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4802.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
無期徒刑、家屬療養、阿伯行徒,以前在改水基因內下落!你會去買嗎?會去買嗎?本省已經在強烈表達對待法官,百姓立法院立法官的抗議啦!所以在這裏保證,期待你﹐可以在任性司法完畢的最後一天﹐告台灣人民兩千三百萬人站在這裏,感謝你! |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4825.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4827.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
謝謝謝謝謝委員、謝謝部長秘書長接下來有請專委員瑞雄發言謝謝主席,要請我們法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4853.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4854.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
有請蔡部長和吳秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4863.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4883.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
剛才的廢除署刑,大家說的解說,兩件事叫你們表態,我是覺得比較沒意思,你們怎麼表態?大法官,尤其是憲法法庭,他不是哪一個政黨的憲法的法庭哪怕說他做出來的一個憲法法庭的大法會議解釋出來以後,一筆錢都比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4887.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4902.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
秘書長,我記得我從大一開始,幾個有名的問題,要不要廢除死刑,這個在法學院一年級裡面大家都在辯論這個問題,當年還有同婚的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4908.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4933.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
還有代理運聞的問題這個東西你看幾十年後都是社會上碰到的問題社會是在進步的但是大法官這整個憲法法庭會做出什麼樣的一個決定那確實是很難各個機關裡面去受到它的去對它有任何的一個影響我也不認為說法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4935.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4962.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
發表你們的聲明完以後還要去大家好像要每一個人都要去影響去主導整個憲法法庭這些大法官他們對整個憲政所做出的一個解釋對法律的說出一個解釋到底是不是合憲但是有幾個問題我倒是要來關心不管是司法院或者法務部我今天早上看到本來是士林地院那個法官比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4965.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4976.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
今天也看到高等法院成行法官議事醒過來了這個是比較值得欣慰的一個地方但也代表這個工作環境那確實是壓力甚至於大家講說這個過勞這個案件裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4978.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4993.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
值得兩位部長跟秘書長好好地去做一個省思你說從台灣各地方法院新收案量來看刑事案件於2021年的41多萬件上升到2023年50多萬件案量3年內成長了22% |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4998.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5017.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
司法人力不管檢察官或法官都一定會長緊繃我看日前司法院許中立院長公開回信裡面目前司法師傅的困境也引起了很多法官的不滿雲林地安法院、台北地院、桃園地院、高雄地院法官在專欄裡面也去講 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5018.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5035.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我不曉得兩位都是法律人來想想問題出在什麼地方翁毓昇前院長被你引來發官給三八十三個這可能秘書長你待會回答吧檢架的比例22.96賴浩敏6年內增加228增幅12.3那任期只有3年的賴英照增加167 還有9.9現在許中立院長7年多現在人家跟他說只有檢架125、檢架6%而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5048.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5071.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那這個儘管在我們2019年修正中央政府機關的總原額法將原額上限從13900提升到15000補充1100的一個人力但是你法官只增加124其他都是書記官337法官助理426這當然就是其他都是輔助人力法官原額實際上也沒有增加可是以現在來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5072.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5084.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
秘書長是不是可以解釋一下?有誰在質疑啊?我們那個洗驗長他有增加的人數是比較多啦我們人數 人數處長有一個很精準的一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5086.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5107.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這裏保證 抱歉喔 還是先有人回答這裏委員 容我報告一下就是說因為我們一個司法官的考試因為法官的來源主要是司法官特考那一個司法官特考從考試到分發需要三年的時間所以許院長的任期前三年分發的法官事實上是前一任的院長提報考試需用名額的那其實我們從100 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5108.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5118.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
人事總署從108年底修正了機關總原額法之後那個預算的增加是實現在110年因為109年的預算在108年年中就已經編列完成了所以真正要增加原額是從110年開始那所以我們從109年開始報告那個法官續用名額是大量的提報以109年到113年來講我們總共報了448個法官續用名額 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5133.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5163.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那只是說像我們從112年開始報考的都要到115年111年啊開始報到要114年才能分發對不對那都不是許院長任期內他任期今年屆滿的話都是下一任的院長會開始收成這個所增加的法官的這個餘額所以說許院長這個任期內只有增加法官124人其實不是很公平的說法所以你們的意思就是說你們很努力在做啦成果還沒出來啦成果到最後是下一任的人會收成啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5163.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5184.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
財政委員您看我們為什麼都增加在輔助人力因為輔助人力還快他今年報考是明年就可以到位所以我們大量增加法官助理那個其實書記官我們也是增加很多人當然報載我就要讓你們去澄清了但我的重點不在這個地方了我的重點是人力確實缺少蔡部長你像我像司法院法官會碰到這個問題你檢察官也會碰到這個問題啊你再看你們的家庭這樣搞不搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5189.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5217.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這幾年你看你們一直在講說打詐啦那整個刑事案件大家不管是檢察官或者法官每一個新收的一個案件量從過去的十幾件飆到也有破百件的那這些喔你看一下你們現在一個詐欺案件看起來又車手啦有的沒的啦共犯啦一堆啦這個牽涉的範圍很廣泛啦常常都是一個案件裡面喔 怕死人牽涉的就幾十個被告的情節也非常複雜我相信法官跟檢察官人力多 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5218.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5225.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
致敬,法務部部長,您的人力的缽南嗎?我也是極力的爭取、爭額,包括從110年,從109年到110年,110年到180年 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5237.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5264.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
一百一十一年 後四年 超過六百個這是我努力去爭取 但是還是不夠後來也有再爭取到檢察官助理不然我們一百個 幾年 今年要超過六百五個但是最終還是要法治化就是說 法院組織法可以訂定檢察官助理有一個實際的名額所以這都開始要努力當然工作的減量也要做你說的詐欺案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5265.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5266.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
有工作的配套來減量 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5284.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5299.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
一、我們現在司法人員的社會的一個公信我們來幫你們爭取這一些其實都有一點壓力你知道嗎但本席倒是認為說司法案件不管是怎麼審 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5300.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5321.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
民調都沒管啦 涉及到兩招啦一個案子審出來我跟你講啦 原告他搞不好也不滿意啦 被告也不滿意啦連法官搞不好到最後你對於甚至於是你做出來的一個判決你評議出來以後啊 你們都會覺得自己都覺得不滿意啦連檢察官起訴以後法官判出來搞不好法官判的人檢察官都不滿意啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5322.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5322.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
以德國為例10萬人27個法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5352.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5381.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
秘書長,我們台灣幾個人分配幾個法官?我們10萬人分配幾個法官?現在法官有2100不是啊,我說帝國10萬人去七個啦,我們台灣10萬人幾個?九個所以也就是說我們去跟其他國家來做比較的話,我們整個法官人數啊你可以想像這些司法工作者他們要面對多大的一個壓力啊那是不是啊,你看這一些法官在控訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5382.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5399.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
秘書長你有沒有看到?我剛才說的法官的控訴,裡面現在司法第一線的法官給他一點解釋當然你們剛剛有提到啦,說這個人力的評估的一個機制,要從總院後來看那你們到底什麼時候有辦法把這個問題解決掉?秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5404.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5426.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這個當然要乞託並進啦就是總言而法當然要能夠提高上限啦那我們內部當然有一部分我們自己也要如何裁判所簡化這一部分還是要繼續努力啦您創作比較固定的啦我們司法法制委員會我們跟你集齊啦這個問題吵了幾年了啦這樣不是辦法啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5426.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5450.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
你像比如說真的司法改革的地方要改革的地方確實是很多啦你像現在以廢除以結案為中心的管理考核的一個機制我看許中立院長在4月12號寫給法官的信也講說以延長刑事詐欺案件的辦案期限以外另將研議犯官相關管考的一個規定對於法官職務的評定不以法官為結案數多寡當成唯一的一個標準這對 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5452.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5452.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
社會一直進步起來後 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5480.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5489.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
一定會面臨各式各樣的一個犯罪手法不同各樣的刑事案件你一定都會遇到這是我們說刑事而已民事會博文又沒有什麼出來說可能就沒有那麼嚴重像這個部分我們請這個司法院或者法務部這邊對這一些建議還有評鑑的一個機制的一個精進要有更積極的一個作為出來我不會像這樣用吶喊式的把你罵的那些人都不會進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5510.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5511.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
法務部這個地方跟司法院這個地方 你們有這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5535.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5547.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們一定會努力就是說要齊頭併勁最主要剛剛講齊頭併勁我從上大學就一直在聽司法改革喊了這幾十年我當第四屆的立法委員我沒有看到我們司法受到更好的一個評價這個是我心裡頭比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5565.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5566.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
接下來有請黃委員、國昌發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5599.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5603.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
謝謝主席,然後有請秘書長、法務部部長好,請秘書長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5615.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5633.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
兩位好2017年施改國事會議改善法官具體的工作條件是我們做成的會議結論也是蔡總統針對整個司法環境所做出的莊嚴承諾2017年施改國事會議蔡總統做了這樣的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5642.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5663.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
2024年我們看到的是法官包括書記官因為工作的壓力限制過勞而離開這個人事我相信大家看了心裡都很難過我比較訝異 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5671.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5691.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
許宗立大法官也是我們的司法院院長去維穩基層我覺得是該做的但他說跟法官說請大家多參加戶外活動不要整天綁在辦公室這句話表面上面聽起來也沒有什麼錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5693.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5718.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
但是在法官實際的眼中在他眼裡他是不是活在象牙塔裡面不知道法官實際的工作狀態好像法官有自戀癖自虐癖才不願意出去活動對於基層法官發出這樣子的呼聲來請教一下秘書長司法院有什麼回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5722.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5727.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
其實法官發出這樣子的怒吼,大院長後來有沒有把他的話收回去? |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5755.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5778.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
就司法院院長,我們法律人就叫大院長嘛司法院院長後來還有話收回去嗎?這個應該他是出於是出於一個善意啦善意的就是說要請要注意身心健康沒有關係啦,因為我說了大院長第一時間去問法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5779.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5801.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我覺得這是該做的一個司法首長本來就應該該做的他是整個司法體系、法官體系的大家長但當他說出這樣子的話引爆基層法官的怒火的時候我覺得適度的回應或者是說明是必要的再請司法院參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5803.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5830.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
法官協會希望一個月內提出減輕法官工作負擔的具體措施我拜讀了今天司法院提出來的書面報告大概一半以上是說明你們過去做了什麼事情大概也就是許中立院長在他給法官的公開信裡面所寫的那些東西的摘要但大家現在更在意的事情是你們過去做了什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5832.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5838.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
從法官的角度將心比心從他們的立場來看這件事情顯然是沒有發揮實際的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5840.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5867.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
要不然法官協會不會發這樣的聲明司法院有沒有打算要在一個月內提出減輕法官工作負擔的具體措施還是司法院你們認為你們已經提了如果你們認為你們已經提了提的內容是什麼請說明我們會法官協會他的聲明我們非常重視我們會盡量在一個月內就是我們也有陸續的比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5869.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5889.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個昨天也已經把這個相關的辦案起線就走移了這樣好不好齁你們在一個月內回應法官協會具體要採行的措施你們要具體在採行的措施同時一份報告給司法法制委員會全體的委員可以嗎可以可以齁好 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5890.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5913.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
因為司法院在書面報告也說啦說機關總原額要用盡了你們要積極爭取人力但我看到你們爭取人力的那個數字我老實講我自己看了嚇一大跳但我們先就事論事從現在的狀態來講因為司法院的書面報告是說現在預算原額還不夠你們還希望繼續爭取這個我們可以理解但 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5914.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5942.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
人事總署給立法院的報告寫的就是完全另外一回事讓我看了很困惑因為人事總署他們寫的是說司法院到目前的預算原額他有多撥補給你們啊你們平均的缺額還有751個人換句話說人事總署的意思似乎是原額有給你們但是你們沒有用這個是怎麼回事這個這一部分我們昨天有就人事行政總署那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5944.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5968.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
七百五十一人我們有研究過這一部分我們處長他有請我跟委員報告一下其實人事總署他的統計數字是來自於我們每半年每半年要月報一次就是那個機關的這個浮動的缺額情形包括就是考試分發列管還有就是領補中還有就是要等的要檢列委外的公有員額 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5968.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5984.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
所以大概這樣子從108人到112人的平均數確實是751但是要強調說這751不是閒置員額他都是考試分發列管比如說我們提報司法官考試100人所以按照你剛剛找的那個計算的方式現在員額全部用慶的是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5985.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5988.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我這樣講好了不好意思容我打斷你你們這樣給的資訊太破碎了你們給的資訊太破碎了 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6009.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6036.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
你們現在有多少元額?所有的元額是怎麼分配的?還缺多少?然後裡面還沒有用的元額預計是今年或者是明年要用到什麼地方可不可以給司法法制委員會一個完整的表啊?法律人做這樣子一個完整的資訊的呈現應該沒有問題嘛現在在立法院的報告裡面完全沒看到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6038.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6041.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
秘書長 這件事情請改進好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6042.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6071.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
報告委員那個護表二是我們目前提出就是擊破需求的菸了我知道啦那是你們開的需求我必須要老實講啊從我的角度上來看這個數字非常的龐大非常的可怕但我們需要知道的是什麼在現在的預算原額裡面你們到底是怎麼用這些原額的如何分配的具體的數字公開透明讓社會法制委員會的委員讓社會知道可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6072.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6076.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
因為目前的狀況我就以地方法院民事強制執行收案的情況來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6097.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6113.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
因為我在法院基層法院說到的呼聲是地方的民事執行處快要崩潰了快要崩潰的理由很簡單你看數字是呈現這樣子在增長的從140幾萬件2020年的現在已經漲到180幾萬件了這個是週案的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6121.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6149.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我們如果看沒有終結的狀況從以前大概基案7萬現在已經double了到14萬地方法院強制執行沒有終結的案件堆積如山目前立法院目前司法院做了什麼因為最主要像執行那個就是保單現在執行的範圍所以那一部分的案件增加很多啦我現在不是問你原因啦我現在問你的是你做了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6150.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6162.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為現在尤其影響最大的是臺北地驗我們最近有趕快補充相關的人力你最近補充相關的人力什麼時候補充的?補充了多少人? |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6165.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6182.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
報告委員因為民事強行執行處主要人力是司法事務官以及書記官、執達員所以在今年的提報司法人員特考的需用名額按照你說的啦特考的名額什麼時候才會進來明年這是一般人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6183.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6199.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我現在問的是這個堆積如山的趨勢不是今天才知道不是上個月才知道不是上上個月才知道我現在請教你們的是你們做了什麼結果你告訴我說你們特考名額增加明年後年人才會進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6200.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6201.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
所以我剛剛具體的就問司法院你們到目前為止做了什麼回答一個問題有這麼困難嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6224.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6253.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
一樣針對堆積如山的事情到目前為止做了什麼這件事情可不可以會後書面報告給全體的委員可以嘛最後時間的關係我要請教一下2016年的時候換總統司法院的這副院長那個時候就請辭了 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6255.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6273.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
2016年的時候民進黨也是這樣主張新總統上任司法院正副院長應該請辭那個是當初我們的執政長提出的訴求現在520快到了司法院正副院長要不要循慣例請辭請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6278.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6291.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
這個 我不變代言我知道你不變代言但我公開提出這個問題2016年的時候當初現在的司法院正副院長正是因為當時的司法院正副院長因為總統換人而請辭 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6293.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6314.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
他們才上台的現在2024年的今天要不要循憲政慣例請職這件事情我了解秘書長不願意代答但我認為這一件事情現任的司法院的院長跟副院長要以他們的高度跟台灣社會清楚的說明謝謝好 謝謝黃委員 謝謝部長 謝謝秘書長接下來有請陳委員峻語發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6341.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6356.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
好謝謝主席那有請我們吳秘書長跟蔡部長請吳秘書長跟蔡部長好秘書長、蔡部長早辛苦了喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6358.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6378.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我想我們今天就這個司法體系透過這個行政簡化、訴訟減量還有我們這個科技運用來降低基層司法人員負擔作為一個專題的討論那我想在兩週前所發生的這個法官墜樓的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6379.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6407.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
令社會各界感到非常的萬喜其中我們看到李法官在生前曾經向他的妻子表達我很累的這種心聲那顯示法官長期在這種高工時高壓力的環境工作下也讓我們再一次聚焦司法官過勞和司法體系負荷過重的這個問題那本席在上週諮詢我們司法院陳廳長的時候曾經詢問過他的工作壓力大不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6408.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6414.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那廳長以過來人的這個身份也表達了這個法官壓力確實是非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6415.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6443.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
而我很累這個三個字也是目前所有法官的一個共同心聲那從這個憾事發生之後我們看到司法院在4月17號召開檢討會議其中作成一項決議參酌合法工時研議法官的這個合理結案量那我想請教秘書長您認為對法官來講合法的這種工時是多長合理的結案量又是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6446.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6453.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那假如通常是能夠在上班時間之內來做,來服務,通常是這樣,那至於說 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6460.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6478.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
在這個合理結案量我們內部正在明天就會召集一個一二三審報告法官協會的這個有關同仁啊一起來研究看一二三審的合理結案量到底多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6479.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6503.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
好 秘書長您還是比較主張就是能夠遵循我們這個公務員服務法第12條這個每日辦公的時數8個小時那每週辦公總時數不超過40小時那應該也要40的這個週休二日我相信應該是這個目標可是我看起來目前應該是都沒辦法達成還是很難啦很難喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6505.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6533.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
委員對不起報告委員其實我們司法院有定一個辦公時數規則就是完全遵循委員剛剛提示的那個公務員服務法的那個工時限制那因為我們的法官工作真的繁重加上社會期待高自我期許也高所以法官真的基於責任感都會自發性的在加班導致工時延長要不然就法規的架構而言我們都其實都有規定法定的辦公時數以外再怎麼加班也不能夠超過每個月70小時好 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6534.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6536.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那法官每天都在追著案件跑 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6564.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6581.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
面對眼前海量的這種案件每天的工作時間恐怕都超過十幾個小時假日也幾乎都沒辦法正常的休假都在加班不只是這樣造成心理壓力的過大也會嚴重影響到法官的健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6582.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6611.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那減輕法官的這個工作負擔作為我們司法院司法改革的一個重點本席也曾經在第一次質詢的時候請教過秘書長秘書長當時答覆因為我們這個人力不足所以希望在員額上面能夠多加幫忙但是我想除了增補人力之外在分案上、程序上還有管考制度上應該都還有調整和改善的空間那也有一期檢討的這個必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6612.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6628.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
司法院開完這個檢討會議也不應該只停留在研議或是期盼那我想請教秘書長對於減輕法官的這個工作負擔的目標究竟何時能夠提出具體的改善措施有沒有規劃改善的這個時間表 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6629.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6646.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我們就是在一個內之內會呼應法官協會他提出來的就包括這個有關合理的結案還有就是說一些嚴考部分還有辦案期限要著量延長這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6654.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6666.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
不只法官,基層司法人員的處境也是應該要被受到尊重另外我們看到苗栗的地院有書記官疑是因為過勞而不幸病逝 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6667.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6693.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那書記官的職責是將法官檢察官的工作予以書面格式化那書記官們在處理繁雜的這個行政文書工作現在也受到案件量暴增的這個影響每天處在水深火熱當中甚至導致身體出了狀況那我想請教秘書長對於書記官的過勞以及如何來改善書記官的勞動環境司法院有沒有相關的這個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6695.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6703.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我們這一部分當然就是說會齊頭並進關於人力部分當然我們會盡量來請行政部門、人總部門來協助內部我們也會盡量就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6717.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6717.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
好． |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6732.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6747.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那如果我們從人員上來看書記官似乎還有難以留才的這個問題我們從近幾年的這個數據上四等法院書記官的缺額是越來越開越多了入局率也幾乎暴增 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6748.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6751.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
司法院是否有掌握同仁離職的實際原因並擬定相應的流財措施? |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6768.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6792.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我跟委員報告我們每一個同仁不是只有書記官司法人員離職我們都會做離職原因的調查然後來彙整並且檢討改進然後我們書記官的問題就是司法人員最大的問題是他有很多核心工作不是一般的非限職人員可以取代跟行政機關不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6792.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6821.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
像我們的很多像書記官開庭打筆錄這件事情還有在筆錄上簽名這種都是具有訴訟法上效力的就沒有辦法用一般的就是所謂職務代理人或者是說非限職人員委外人力來取代所以現在問題在核心人力沒辦法取代所以為什麼我們一直拜託說要爭取中央機關總原額的提高因為這個法官增加輔助人力就要加兩倍所以等於一個法官增加要乘以三倍的原額如果原額不增加的話那司法機關真的沒有辦法再 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6822.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6839.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我們還是希望我們司法院能夠這個更加來重視我們基層司法人員的這個處境並且能夠加以善加這個來改善我們讓我們所有的人才可以留在 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6840.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6858.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
司法體系當中來服務那也讓這個同仁在合理工作中負擔合理的工作量才是長久之計另外我想我們剛剛有談到這個原額的部分我想從過去的討論當中不管是司法院還是法務部都有共同一個點就是人力不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6858.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6882.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那希望增加人力的部分從現行的總額、元額來看屬於第三類的司法院及所屬機關元額最高為15000人作為第四類的這個法務部所屬的這個檢查機關則為6900人那未來如果要再增加元額我想請教秘書長我們這個人事總署是否會支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6884.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6907.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我們目前我們當然盡力就請他們來協助但是我覺得我還是很期盼就是說可能要要一起來面對這種問題因為關於人民的司法受益錢這個是整個政府應該要要一起去面對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6909.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6936.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那當然也有另外有提出限量婚案的這種聲音但是我們會覺得這個不管怎樣司法受益前這個要政府我們全體有關的相關政府機關應該要共同來面對共同面對這個一定要一起克服不是只有我們我們司法部門的責任好 謝謝秘書長那我同時也請教我們部長那對於我們法務部的部分我們原額增加的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6937.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6965.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
是否也會受到我們這個人事總署的這個支持謝謝委員關心那法務部所屬的機關尤其是檢查機關人力不足確實也是存在的那我們現在檢查機關的法定員額是6900位那目前剩下的只剩下286位的員額而已事實上也是缺乏要再增加總員法能夠修正提高所以我們也會努力的來爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6967.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6990.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
好 所以那對於我們這個司法院還有法務部的這個人力配置和運用我們都予以尊重那由於人力的不可能無限制的這種補充重點還是極大化原額運用的這種效益那配合有效減輕負荷的這種措施讓司法人員的壓力能夠確實得到舒緩我相信這才是我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6991.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7017.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
為這些同仁來解決他們工作上的這個壓力的問題最大的一個目標我也請我們秘書長跟部長一定要這個竭盡所能來幫助我們基層這個同仁的這種問題來面對一起來面對好 以上好 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長 謝謝秘書長先做預告稍後在吳委員私謠詢答完畢後休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7018.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7019.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
主席、秘書長吳秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7041.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7055.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
秘書長,剛剛這個黃國昌總召有提到那因應如果政權總統要交接是不是司法院院長依憲政慣例就強制應當邀一併來請辭請問有這樣的憲政慣例嗎?這個...這個...我...據我的認知是... |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7069.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7089.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我的認知是應該是沒有啦我們就回到憲法的解釋建議黃國昌總召您學法律去看一看大法官釋字第419號到底司法院院長或是五院院長要不要依循著新任總統來一起來請辭大法官419號很清楚的告訴我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7090.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7112.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
即便請辭那是一種禮貌性的請辭而不是一個強制的請辭所以在法律的解釋上也應當好好去看看大法官解釋的條文而我個人進一步的演繹在政權的交接但是蔡英文總統交接給賴清德未來的總統這畢竟還是同一個政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7113.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7114.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我先發表我的意見,您同意我的論點嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7139.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7144.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我個人同意好 謝謝秘書長那進入今天的主題我個人認為現在所發生很多司法人員壓力過大那不幸選擇輕生的狀況其實除了是為司法人員來減壓更重要的是也是要正面來提升司法品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7161.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7164.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我想這個面向是國人更關切的所以從育才、攬才、留才的角度我們都要一起周延來討論下一頁我提出了五個建議很多也不是我的創建我只是把它歸納為司法人員減壓我們需要再做人力的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7181.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7198.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
第一大建議,你就要去攬財嘛,對不對?增補司法人力,那你去調整組織元額,我當然支持修法,而雙方政府機關總元額法要修就來修。但是呢,在現有的考試禁用跟多元禁用雙款旗下,我們是不是可以做得更多做得更好,在攬財面。 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7200.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7224.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
第2個建議是我們是不是可以考慮對於司法人員的待遇是不是能夠做調整來增加人員的留任意願我不曉得你們有沒有研究這個部分我的經驗我長期在教育文化委員會我們今天討論司法人員減壓其實在大學的教授、副教授、助理教授的減壓工作量太大其實都 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7226.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7252.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
是同樣可以適用這個經驗所以教育部提出了很多為大學的高教的老師提升他的待遇給予他新的誘因比如說我們給予了彈性薪資的方案我們給予其他的研究的補貼都是讓這些現役的教育人員今天在這裡是司法人員增加他的留才的意願我想待遇面也是一個可以考慮的面向 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7253.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7278.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
第三個建議．如何來有效解決濫訴的問題．減少案源他跟第四點是相關的．就是落實金字塔型的訴訟制度．來適度調整裁判的費用我稍後來跟您論述細節最後一個．我們現在有的員工這個EAP協助方案．是不是接得住每一個司法人員的具體需求呢五大面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7279.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7279.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
司法人員的出走潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7299.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7320.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
針對司法院的法院人員近10年的離職統計出走575人法務部的檢察機關人員近10年出走431人加起來司法人員的出走潮是近10年破千人所以我才說剛剛的五大改進方案要趕快來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7321.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7338.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我們要遇財、攬財、和其困難那你至少留財要做得精準一點可是人才留不住啊司法人員不管是司法院的法官人員或者是我們的法務部主管的檢查機關的人員近十年出走破千人這當然要慎重來因應他下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7343.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7354.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我進一步來看這是你們提供的資料司法人員的缺人荒啊就法官含庭長需求人數這是2024新的數字就缺了499個法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7356.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7375.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那連同整個輔助人力、司法事務官乃至於你們家事調查官等等司法機關迫切需求緣額表2024年你們需求人力是5536人法官就500人欸這怕死人欸那這是你們提供的資料這是一個嚴重的缺人的警訊嘛好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7384.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7389.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那以剛剛那個表來講光法官就欠499人將近500人我再以這20年來我分兩個10年來統計前一個10年2004到2013年法官的增減人數前一個10年只增加301人 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7402.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7416.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
後一個十年就是2014到現在的2023﹖法官增加的人員變一半捏只增加155人換言之我們的懶財比起前一個十年少了一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7417.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7435.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以呢,花20年才能夠補上539人左右可是光法官你現在很珠息就欠被給我罷了所以換言之你要再補個20年才有可能把它補滿所以剛剛的五大建議五個建議缺一不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7436.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7465.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我這些背景研究都是再一次分享給大家讓社會好好來面對這一個我們不得不面對的真相為了讓我們的司法品質更好可以攬財可以留財下一頁好那我們來講攬財考試禁用跟多元禁用秘書長你覺得哪一個禁用的這個效益高一點不要講效益啦不要把人力當效益不要把人才當效益但是以他的養成 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7466.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7469.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
主要來源還是考試禁用但是事實上一個考試禁用大概你培育他的人力至少要8年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7483.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7505.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好 你這裡有嘛 對不對之前研習候補期間跟市署期間加起來八檔啦但是多元禁用時間就大幅的減少因為它很多是現役有其他經驗的律師轉任啦 司法人員轉任等等所以多元禁用是一個急佔力下一頁可是問題就在這裡啦考試禁用6乘5 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7506.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7520.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
你的多元禁用只有3乘5集戰力的補強只有3乘5就代表又回到我剛剛的五大建議了你是不是讓大家不要這麼重的loading然後薪水可以合理一點那個訴訟的這個案源減少一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7525.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7540.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這都是關鍵所以我們在考試禁用之外多元禁用可不可以給誘因教育部就是這樣幹的我們不只在台灣要讓高教人才從民間攬進來我們還要跟國外攬才所以教育部開啟了很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7541.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7541.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7570.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7591.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
好 這就案源案量了這剛剛可能很多委員都提到我就講重點平均啊 我們每年新收案363萬件其中314萬是民事案件49萬是刑事案件每年的新收案還不管他的手上的未結案件平均每一位法官我是扣除最高法院的法官跟院長喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7592.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7612.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
平均每位法官是1比1665就一個人手上的新收案件加未結案件一個人要搞1665件至少這樣壓力不大才怪我不想跳槽才怪我不想出走才怪這都是問題所以如何減少案源呢下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7614.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7626.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
這個我也是去調查才了解我真的是司法法制委員的菜鳥我能做的就是不斷的去研究找資料這是我看到的民事訴訟裁判費的基準收費基準21年沒有調秘書長21年沒有調對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7630.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7651.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
所以現在這個訴訟的成本就假啦非財產案件第一審只要三千塊第二三審只要交四千五百塊財產類的這個民事訴訟的裁判費的試算我這裡都試算出來了他依不同的這個訴訟標的金額標的金額所以這21年沒有改這能不能調整啊這個我們民事我們會研議來要不然大家覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7661.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7668.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
走法院成本很低我就隨便告我今天看中嘉賓不太開心我就 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7672.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7692.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
委員這部分我們會研議調整但是因為訴訟費用的徵收跟法律輔助是相結合對我懂我懂這是要連帶去思考但是如果以一個21年沒有調整我也一併提供給你們思考看看好嗎進到最後一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7693.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7717.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我剛講的流財、育財、懶財是前端、最後端心理健康的關懷方案我很快把我觀察到的問題分享給你們這裡包括法務部也有法務部那個問題更大法院、司法院確實有心理健康關懷方案每一個人最高補助每次2500塊一年最多可以看8次你如果有特殊需求可以去看12次的心理諮商非常好可是只有法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7718.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7732.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
法官優先沒有你如果是司法事務官、書記官、法官助理跟其他職工如果需要去適用的話需要向他該庭的院長申請右邊這個是你們的協助方案的公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7733.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7733.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
檢察官沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7763.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7772.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
法務部也有有有一個員工協助方案就是上面的協助方案可是沒有跟剛剛司法官一樣去藉助外部的心理諮商我都列出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7774.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7774.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7800.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7806.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
臺北地院對臺北地院說法官以外人員需要經過院長合作好不好臺北地院臺北地院好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8853.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8857.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
現在繼續開會接下來請黃委員三三發言請司法院秘書長有請吳秘書長秘書長,我也身為法律人在民國81年考上律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8881.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8905.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
司法人員的過勞其實不是新聞了而且一直都在討論那司法改革這麼多年蔡英文總統上任最重要的是大力推動了司法改革那其中一項就是要減輕法官的工作負擔秘書長為什麼八年來我們還在一直討論減輕法官的工作負擔您覺得原因為什麼還在討論同樣的問題討論了七八年 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8907.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8909.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
臺灣民意基金會公布的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8922.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8943.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
蔡總統八年來推動司法改革的民意反應從你看到2017年大概不滿意度是55%經過七年多八年的改革我們現在的不滿意度還是高達54%也就是中間雖然有上上下下但是顯然沒有很大的進步那比較嚴重的我覺得是 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8944.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8966.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
這個部分不滿意高達54.6%滿意的其實僅僅35%也就是從簡單的來說他可能剛剛及格而已這個比較嚴重的是對於司法改革大概是蔡總統8年來他所有的是在滿意度裡面最低的那接下來其實我們今天要跟你討論的是剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8969.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8990.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
案子增加人沒增加所以我們還在討論減輕法官工作負擔最近有非常多的司法官不管是他跳樓或者是重病那有司法官因為這樣而離世那非常多的法律人包括民間司改團體其實都還在一樣在檢討為什麼的法官還是過勞 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8991.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8993.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
1.從105年到112年,我們的新收案件從324萬件,現在已經到了405萬件,也就是增加了整整25%,一年增加80萬件新案。這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
9009.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
9025.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
有數字的但是我們增加的人力呢從你們調給我的資料是你只增加了124個人也就是80多萬件的案子你增加的人力遠遠沒有辦法追上你案件增加的數量所以秘書長你們就是人不夠對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
9028.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
9031.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
現在的問題是總原額還有我們對於新案他沒有辦法減量這是可能越來越惡性循環的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
9042.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
9063.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那我這邊要講的是我剛才我們看到你調的資料很有趣我們希望了解一下每個月每個月法官他的負擔有多少你們現在的數字說一個月不管是地方法院、民庭或刑庭或少年法庭少年法庭多一點的九十幾件然後一般民刑庭大概都六十幾件但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
9064.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
9092.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
秘書長,我的同學,我們有法律系同學的群組沒有人相信法官一個月新案只有60件,中位數是多少?平均數是60,中位數是多少?因為這個是連同這個一般的檢疫案件是,所以平均下來,我覺得還是一樣手上一兩百件一個月案件的是大有人在 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
9093.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
9109.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
第2個他我就常跟很多新進要念法律系的人說如果叫你一天寫一篇作文你寫得出來嗎很難寫一天要寫三篇作文一個要解一百件案件三篇作文每一個字都不能錯每一個事實都不能錯連證人的證詞都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
9111.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
9141.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
引用的正正道道地地,絕對不能出錯這種作文誰寫得出來判決書就是一篇很好的作文所以秘書長我今天有幾個建議這是我們法律系同學、法官、律師一起在討論的幾個做法你沒有辦法加人你只能減量怎麼減量有幾個案子我們認為說應該可以減量第一個他們認為很多法人登記的案子一定要到法院嘛可以修法的趕快修 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
9142.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
9165.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
2、票據公式催告這都是一個程序問題這個程序問題能不能在行政單位或其他的機關就能夠減量不用事事都到法院去這也是目前為止我認為可以盡量減少法官或在法院裡面做其他專責單位去處理就好不要讓法官去做這種程序性的東西3、收養 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
9166.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
9192.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
收養很多都已經寫好收養的契約但是他必須要再經過法院認可他也會影響法院整個在家事法庭他調查跟了解的狀況他的其實某個程度當事人都已經同意了可是我們還要經過一個程序第3個第4個是現在濫訴罰環的執行我看到你們的案子說你們有罰了一些不肖的當事人不肖的律師然後只罰了200多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
9194.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9212.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
跟剛剛加的80萬件還是差很遠第四個專家參審的制度我們希望說有一些像現在精神衛生法已經有讓專家進來那我們希望說有一些工程、金融、智慧財產的案件某個層次讓專家來參審減輕法官的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9215.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9235.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那第6個是我認為最重要的我們最高法院最會做的就是用發回跟審從來不依照相關的訴訟法自為判決這個自為判決有些最高法院我相信他們已經有定見了可是我們現在用發回作為唯一的方法幾乎自為判決的比例非常少 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9236.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9263.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
最後一個是債務清理債務清理現在是法院最大宗那我今天再口頭補充一個就是現在因為保險也被列為要保人的資產所以整個強制執行法光保險去查保險、封保險、解約保險就成為現在執行法院最大的惡夢所以秘書長如果你沒辦法加人這些減量我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9264.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9266.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
司法院從今天開始檢討剛剛講的這幾項,你做得到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9294.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9294.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9310.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9328.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
法院人力來做訴訟有必要有法院有實質認定的部分讓法院來做其他有行政單位可以行政單位做至於再清一波地方的消災中心因為我們在各個執行處的成立的消災中心目前是士林跟台中 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9329.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9334.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
沒關係 如果可以的話找方法否則永遠都在討論法官怎麼減量如果你不能減量你又加不了人這件事情我們可能會再討論30年 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9358.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9371.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
是,那專家參審的部分,我們目前有專家諮詢的制度可以運用,以上報告好的,謝謝,拜託秘書長,這幾項東西請你一個月給我一個簡單的回應,好嗎?是是,好,謝謝好,謝謝我們黃委員,謝謝秘書長接下來,有請楊委員、瓊英發言,請 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9393.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9396.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
謝謝主席 楊全發言 邀請秘書長當我們看到電視 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9403.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9427.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
二十幾歲的法官發生了這樣的事情我們真的很難過要培養一位法官那是何其不容易但是憾事還是發生那更離譜的是憾事發生之後我們又看到媒體上面說我們司法院請法官休息半天去走一走是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9431.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9453.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個也是就是說出於善意其中之一嘛方案但是你認為當漢市發生的時候我們告訴法官說請你們都要休息半天出去走一走這樣可以解決問題嗎這個就是說是請就是說能夠多注意一些運動 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9455.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9464.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
本席也絕對同意是善意但是本席跟你討論在我們看到我們看不到更積極的方案來協助你應該是去研討怎麼樣要協助我們這些人員應該要提出方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9482.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9508.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
善意當然需要但是如果只有半天讓他們走一走運動半天就可以解決問題不會導致現在這個現象所以我們看到基本的這個數字你告訴我們從107年到112年我們的這個加持條件的部分通通每一個項目都是增加比例都增加 對不對你告訴我們的數字在這裡而且我們也看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9510.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9520.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
這個訴訟的比例也通通都是在增加數字告訴我們是每一年逐年在增加但是沒有告訴我們方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9521.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9545.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
接下來我好不容易就看到您提出的迫切需求緣額的總會表那現在怎麼辦呢我們好不容易看出來期盼人總能夠協助提高緣額上限你這樣就對了你明明白白 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9547.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9574.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
每一年的增加數量一直在增加而且比例增加的讓我們很憂心很憂心但是呢好不容易你提出了有為的政府應該要解決這個問題啊所以你要大聲講出來啊而不是只有說你們每一個人休息半天去走一走就算了我記得在葉金鳳女士擔任部長的時候我帶隊到我們台中地檢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9576.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9603.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
部長在這裡我們去看了我發覺這嚇死人了案件這麼多三書民眾書檢察官書法官書社會大眾書不可以如此所以當時是首批第一次助理人員而且法務部還慢了一年這個司法官啊司法院啊還比較早他早一年先讓助理人員先進駐 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9606.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9633.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
第1屆法務部還慢一年還科技慢了一年所以從那時候開始我一直關注我說當人民有困難的時候那政府要怎麼協助我們最終的法院判決是還人民的一個公道這是我們非常尊敬的這是民主的真諦但是我們看到竟然是這麼樣的民主真諦竟然發生了這樣的憾事 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9635.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9661.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
而且我們提出的人員,我們全力支持也請秘書長,您必須要好好的提出好好的溝通因為你唯一從根源去解決,要不然不可能一個法官、一個檢察官,一天、一個月幾十件案件這樣你自己寫都寫不出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9662.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9682.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那怎麼也有辦法精進呢所以你必須要從根源去做嘛對不對所以我是很呼籲期盼今天任總要代表來能夠把這個任總代表在哪裡請你也上來請能夠把這個聲音帶回去他不是帶回去他必須來在哪裡專委在哪裡來謝謝任總現在非常重要啊專委 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9692.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9720.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我想不管藍綠白大家都一定支持因為你不能擺爛的放在那裡啊你逼死了法官逼死了檢察官沒有用啊對不對人民最重要的最後一道防線就是司法嘛司法公立司法中立那怎麼辦來今天你聽到這個提出來的這個數字你們預計要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9722.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9729.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
民眾所需、社會所需政府要解決問題不管修法多困難只要大家有共識就沒有困難了如果我們還一直說這個修法很困難那立法院要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9749.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9776.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們已經慎重提出而且看到法官這麼悲傷的事情發生所以拜託你一定要把這個表格趕快拿回去一定要趕快好好的來討論好不好我覺得這很重要啦其實我也可以建議司法委員會我們趕快開一個公聽會讓社會大眾更了解法務部跟司法院他們所需要他們所欠缺的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9777.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9787.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
你唯一從根源去解決你才能夠真正讓民眾至少還有一點點對社會爭議的一個期待啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9788.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9810.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
民主黨你有精力啦因為這個涉及到人民的受益錢啊政府機關應該一體要來克服啦對你這樣講就對了啦你要勇敢站出來大聲啦就像當時我那個葉金鳳部長的時候我一去我一看了我嚇一跳啊那些案件怎麼可能那你至少要一個助理人員來協助嘛所以當時就這樣定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9813.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9814.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
謝謝秘書長、謝謝專門委員、也謝謝楊委員接下來有請林委員、世明發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9839.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9839.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
財務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9849.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9873.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
委員好部長好部長我想今天大家很關心這個有關死刑的議題我想我也針對幾個比較嚴肅的一個議題來救教部長請你表示您的看法我想這個政府公共政策的擬定是否要參考民意當然要一定要參考民意那何謂民意大多數的民眾意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9879.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9903.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
民主政治的本質是建立在主權在民的理念上政府的公共政策必須符合民意民意又稱為公義亦可稱之為輿論學者凱伊對民意所下的定義是民意是指那些意見所構成而政府應慎重加以注意的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9905.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9921.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
所以民意是我們政府未來擬定各項政策,我們必須去加以參考的重要依據所以第二個問題請教部長,死刑作為法定刑是否為我國現在目前的刑事政策? |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9922.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9941.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
目前死刑是法定刑之一所以我想這個是很明確的所以我們的刑事政策是這個有死刑嘛就是支持死刑嘛目前是他有法律的規定所以我們就是依法執行依法來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9943.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9968.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
第三個問題請問死刑制度我們已經在司法院釋制第194號、263號、476號等歷次大法官會議解釋核限那先問部長好了就是說你知道說這些這幾號解釋說出死刑是核限性的一個解釋的意旨大概是怎樣部長知道嗎您可以講得出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9970.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9998.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這幾號的解釋都是認為死刑的規定本身是核限的那現在目前整個情勢並沒有很大的改變而且民意大部分也支持所以在法務部的立場認為死刑的規定還是維持核限但是他的主要的核心的理由他的解釋為什麼認為核限符合憲法的哪幾個原則這個部長你知道嗎我們可以查得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9999.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
10025.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我大概跟部長分享我想這個過去大法官會議的解釋的認定是說他認為死刑作為法定刑沒有違憲的理由因為強調說死刑是維護我們國家安全、社會秩序及增進公共利益所必要與憲法第15條的生命權以及23條的比例原則並無抵觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
10028.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
10042.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
主要的解釋意旨是認為符合憲法的比例原則以及對於生命權的尊重並沒有違反憲法相關的對於生命權基本權維護的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
10047.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
10058.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以我想就叫部長所以我們現在的大法官如果要做出第4次的解釋還能推翻過去3次的合憲性解釋嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
10060.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
10087.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
當然要尊重大法官他的看法因為每個大法官他也有自己的看法當然要經過合議事先出來以後大法官也可以表示不同的意見當然我們了解但是我們現在講說現在的大法官又推翻過去大法官他所做出來的合憲解釋以目前我們的憲政制度大法官可以這樣自議為之嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
10089.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
10096.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
他可以去打臉過去的大法官嗎?部長您的看法吧您就講您自己學法律您的看法你自己的看法認為這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
10099.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
10101.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
大法官這樣質疑是可以的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10129.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10136.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
國家所擬定的立法者所擬定的刑事政策你可以去加以否決嗎?可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10138.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10164.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
大法官的職權就是要審視目前的法例有沒有違背憲法但是部長我剛一直跟你講了嘛你擬定相關的形式政策目前我們的形式政策就符合我們現在的主流名義嘛所以現在的大法官你要推翻現行的形式政策去這個違背我們現在的主流名義這個是妥當的嗎?正當的嗎?大法官可以這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10166.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10194.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
每個大法官他可以表達自己的意見嘛所以大法官最後做的釋憲結果還可以把不同意見書附在後面所以這個問題就一直就讓我們陷入一個漩渦裡面大法官過去的大法官是認為合憲現在的大法官認為不合憲然後他就是自己要去做違背主流民意的一個看法如果我想我們行事政策如果要改變要跟著我們社會的主流民意嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10195.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10214.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
然後由立法者他去決定要不要依照我們的民意建立出相關的一個形式的立法符合我們政策的一個目標嗎但是大法官他要去越權做出這種完全違背民意違背我們現行形式政策的一種解釋您認為正當嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10217.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10242.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
沒有錯,你認為正當嗎?我們都是法律人啦我不曉得大法官他的法律是念的特別好還是怎麼樣真的怎麼會有大法官會一直這樣去推翻過去幾位非常專業、非常有重望的大法官的解釋假設他今天把這個解釋為會不會解釋為違憲我們不知道假設解釋出說這個死刑是違憲的我們真的不可想像說這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10246.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10253.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
羅賢要羅賢到什麼時候以後第5屆如果第5次解釋的時候大法官可不可以推翻第4次的法官的解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10256.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10285.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
委員也知道嘛,我們讀法律的時候常常一個法律的見解都會有假說、以說、秉說、折衷說各種說都有,我們都要一一尊重嘛所以我是希望大法官今天正要聽到我們的聲音你要尊重主流民意尊重我們現行的刑事政策你也支持現在的刑事政策嘛對不對,部長您個人也認為現行的刑事政策以及我們現在的立法就是我們是支持實行的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10285.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10295.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我們法務部的立場就是認為目前的法律規定是合憲的好 謝謝 部長你請委那主席我最後再問一下司法院 秘書長委員好秘書長我想跟你討論今天的這個負擔的問題我想我們大家對於法官負擔的問題而造成我們那麼多精英的法官的責損 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10314.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10335.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
大家都很難過我想這些精英司法官他們的家屬在暗夜中的哭泣我不是到司法院我沒有注意到這麼不容易考上司法官結果去走向親生這是讓我們學法律的人無法想像的可見他的工作壓力是多麼的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10336.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10362.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我想今天我們這個專題是在討論說如何透過行政簡化、訴訟減量與科技運用以降低基層司法體系負擔的問題但是我一直呼籲的一個問題現在不管我們怎麼做如果我們沒有從源頭去做相關的一個教育去讓我們的年輕人、讓我們的孩子從小升職法制的觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10363.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10386.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那我個人這個我還是講我們社會的就是一直循環就是因為教育沒有做好才會造成我們最後一道這個防線很可能就被攻破所以才會造成我們大家法官因為案子不斷的增加壓力不斷的變大所以大家沒辦法負荷嘛所以如何減少案源 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10387.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10396.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個部分除了我們剛剛很多委員提的很多的一個方案以外我個人是建議法制教育這部分可能要做得更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10399.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10424.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
所以金馬丹司法院有沒有跟教育部來合作怎麼樣把我們法制的種子散佈在各個校園這個我們有在加強因為我們有特別成立新鮮處新倫仙島處法治新倫仙島處這一部分有跟我們年輕朋友跟我們學校都有編導真的我真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10425.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10449.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
中心建議了,因為我們法律上真的我覺得如果沒有從教育面著手的話突然要讓這個我們司法的最後一道防線就是接到案子就要審就要審就要審沒完沒了啦怎麼樣都很難很難減少啦案子就是不斷的來啊這些違法犯紀的事情因為這些人對於法治的觀念真的太欠缺了為什麼會犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10451.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10451.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
接下來有請吳委員中線發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10490.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10517.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我們請司法院秘書長、法務部長有請吳秘書長還有蔡部長這邊我先就叫部長部長我想說大家我們都很清楚檢察官工作的核心是內勤外勤、開庭、寫書類我今天收到一個報告每個檢察官目前的說案量是110件我想部長應該知道這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10523.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10549.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
增他鄉案因為我們是統計這個比較重要的就是各種包括其他這些案件加起來大概110件那我們講那個增治案件增治案件我想桃園地檢跟新北地檢常常月收都是超過100件我想部長應該很清楚這個狀況那我跟部長報告一下我們當年分發的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10550.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10559.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我在民國90年分發的時候那個時候我記得我那時候看到報表一個月增案是30幾件那現在的話已經變成這個數字那我離開檢方是在民國109年但是108年到去年的這個數據以新收案件來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10571.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10596.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
全國的新收案件漲了47%也就是這四年多裡面全國檢方的新收案件漲了47%這跟房價的漲幅都差不多了房價是七年九十幾%嘛那檢方的案件是四年多漲了47%我想說這已經到一個完全不合理的狀況了那一個案子我想我們都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10597.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10620.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
他必須要開庭他收案開庭訊問然後要寫書類要去思考也就是說這樣平均下來一個案子如果每一天超時工作12個小時的話3個小時才能結掉一件那這個會不會已經超過正常的負荷更何況有很多案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10621.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10640.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們講一個簡單的啦你說酒醉駕車那個就像寫聯絡簿一樣那麼簡單但是我們有更多的案子其實是要花腦子去思考更多那個人民之間的糾紛其實那個都沒有那麼容易所以說每一個案子在偵查的時候都很辛苦部長這個部分你有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10641.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10651.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我同意委員的看法因為數字只是平均而已其實每一個案子的複雜度跟簡易是完全不一樣的有一個案子有時候需要好幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10652.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10654.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我之前處理過一個貪污案件那那個案件一個案子裡面是 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10677.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10698.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
有十幾個廠商被告到最後超過20個我書類寫了一個多禮拜然後100多頁那這個也是一個案子所以說我們到最後會不會變成是檢察官或法官他們都去想辦法去追求那些簡單的案子或者是把一個原本應該複雜的案子去把它簡易化 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10699.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10723.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個我想說部長這很重要的一件事情其實這幾年啊大家常常在罵一個東西在罵恐龍法官、恐龍檢察官那我們知道就像我剛說的一個案子我們要月卷開庭、調資料還要寫書類這幾年我不敢跟著大家罵因為我知道問題出在哪裡大家就是一直罵恐龍法官、恐龍檢察官但是我跟各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10724.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10741.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
說明一件事情就好像今天記者一天只能寫兩個稿我要你今天一天寫出十個稿你寫出來的東西品質就會出問題那一樣你用工廠來看好了如果今天這個工廠符合勞基法一個月生產30套設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10742.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10768.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那我我叫大家不睡覺不休息不陪家人一個月生產能夠經到60號設備但是今天老闆叫你生產到120號設備呢你出來品質良率就變很差今天我看到的司法是這樣所以與其大家一直罵說你這司法有問題司法怎麼樣你要去思考到底我們今天給司法人員什麼樣的環境你發生了什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10769.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10797.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們就像我們去看醫生我們覺得看醫生醫生要跟我問診問十分鐘結果沒有啊人越來越多剩五分鐘到最後你現在去看診有一分鐘就請你出去了那你能夠看到什麼我們今天我們一直說法官、檢察官有問題腦子有問題結果你弄錯了是你給他的數字出了問題結果東西出來一塌糊塗好我必須講一個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10800.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10827.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我一直覺得當然我真的舉雙手贊成人力的部分一定要補足但是我想跟各位說一句話笨蛋問題在制度真的是制度出了問題尤其是我們幾年前的司法改革會議其實他把制度改得更複雜更亂結果不要跟我說司法改革成功司法改革成功與否你看為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10828.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10850.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
這幾年的司法改革改到司法官累到累到走不下去了或者是人民的滿意度越來越低你就不要跟我說司法改革成功就因為我一直覺得國民法官制度問題重重但是司法院你就是要硬推你也不去管到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10851.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10852.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
司法專業人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10868.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10891.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
高專業度的制度的修改你卻讓非常多非法律的人你可能找很多社運團體來這邊每個人就只聚焦在一個小問題上面然後要求制度修改但是制度跟制度制度內的每一個點都是環環相扣所以它很多國家的訴訟制度的修改是花了30年50年才慢慢有轉換結果我們這邊竟然是兩個月的會議開完全國大改 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10895.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10917.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
難怪到今天越改司法官累了半死司法官累了人生這條路走不下去然後累到現在中間站立最強的檢察官法官一堆人離職然後到最後我們補了很多新人他們經驗還需要慢慢培養補了很多新人進來案件量越來越多回過頭去罵司法怎麼變那麼爛 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10918.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10945.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那我要跟各位報告你以為的司法改革是要改善人民對司法的信任度結果我們的司法改革改得人民對司法越來越不信任這是我看到的司法改革現在的狀況那累死了一堆法官檢察官我們自己一路這樣走過來我自己看得很清楚現在新分發的檢察官跟法官已經沒有時間去學辦案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10947.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10967.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我們以前剛出來很好運我當年出來的時候案件量還算合理我還有時間去學怎麼辦案怎麼跟這些偵查機關、司法、警察相處怎麼樣帶領他們辦案現在新分發的我去跟他們聊天每一個都說每天都在加班寫書類每天都在加班看卷 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10968.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10994.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
他完全沒有辦法去學社會發生了什麼事結果他們就跟社會越來越脫節他們辦案的功力越來越弱他們出來的書類品質越來越差他們開庭的時間越來越短就司法的品質就越來越差我覺得變成今天這樣子我今天我是很沉痛的點出我們司法今天的問題在這裡我覺得這個是制度面的問題啦我真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10994.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
11017.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
制度面的問題那當然接下來我們還有比喻延長一年比喻延長一年之後這些軍事審判的東西目前都還在普通法院這個也加重了檢察官跟法官的工作量所以所有的東西你就是一直不停的加重加重再加重普通法院的法官跟檢察官的工作量 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
11019.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
11046.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我想齁 這個制度的問題麻煩兩位長官一定要去思考該怎麼辦因為基層他不會把聲音告訴長官們長官們可能聽到的都是身邊幹部的人的想法但是我是一路基層做了20年我所有我現在跟我還在往來的這些法官檢察官同學們他們會告訴我第一手的他們痛苦的事情是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
11048.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
11073.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
講一個20幾年前要改交互結論制度去美國抄了一套交互結論制度來結果呢有沒有想過美國上訴是多困難啊很多學者說美國甚至只有一審是40審結果我們40審搞了兩個審計同一套制度玩了兩遍消耗多少人力物力害當事人花了多少錢請律師我們都不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
11074.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
11095.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
這個制度上面不是有很大的問題嗎你抄人家的制度就人家認為一個省級40省就要把它審理完畢上述二省有非常多的限制我就說甚至我們有學者把它歸類它叫做我們的法律省了叫做三省的法律省就我們同一套制度玩兩遍那那個意義在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
11097.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11110.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
這段時間我有跟法務部要很多資料啦那甚至我也說像譬如說職權還起訴處分職權送災的意義在哪我從數據上面來看一點價值都沒有但是卻搞垮了二審的檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11111.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11133.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那一樣就法官而言 法官刑事訴訟、二審肥大政就把二審搞慘了 因為我們上訴有審極利益的問題所以 被告上訴 完全沒有什麼成本 他想上訴就上訴搞得二審案件一大堆法官類的半死那 我希望齁 就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11135.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11147.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
將來該除罪的我覺得就把它除罪化對人民沒有任何意義的東西就把它除罪化那還有司法院是不是能夠再健全一些中低收入戶的訴訟保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11149.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11177.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
後然後我們去提高一些訴訟費用該收費的標準讓有錢人來使用法院應該多交一點錢但是我們擴大訴訟救助的部分讓沒有錢的人也可以享受這個訴訟假性財產犯罪是不是應該要收費不要讓檢察官法官成為全國最大的連鎖討債集團這我以前當檢察官最痛恨的點就是一堆人把假性財產犯罪來叫我幫他討錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11178.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11203.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
這是大家 我想部長一定很清楚這是大家檢察官心裡的痛還有妨礙司法公正是不是我們應該要趕快把它建立起來因為我講到這個議題我自己心裡是感觸很深啦因為畢竟我是這樣子走過來的那我現在身邊的好朋友也幾乎都還是法官檢察官以前的同學 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11205.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11232.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我想說我還是必須要替他們講講話部長或部長有沒有什麼想法謝謝委員指教委員是基層檢察官出身的我本人也是所以我非常了解檢察官現在陷入到工作負擔過重這樣的一個困境那我也想盡辦法來幫忙解決不但是在爭取能力而且在他案件的怎麼樣的簡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11234.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11261.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
包括我們書類不要用太多的這種敘述的方式能夠用格式化的方式來處理還有工作環境的改善我都是盡我最大的努力來完成謝謝部長部長委員這些提示我們都會都會加以來我想我剛講的只是很多改善方式的九牛一毛而已只是我這樣臨時想到了那最後30秒我講一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11264.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11284.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
選前啦就是我們這個所謂中國中共借選國安無法這個傳了很多里長那現在開始很多不起訴都出來了那我預測將來很多大量的無罪會出來我不是說這個案子這種案子一定不應該辦而是他很多將來能夠成罪的證據其實檢察官法官是拿不到他可能在 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11285.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11313.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
在那個中國那邊所以這種案子是不是要這樣子大規模的這麼處理照著人心惶惶好那這個為什麼我在這邊講因為他也相同的他造成了警察、調查官、法官、檢察官大量的工作量檢察官他可能要偵辦要起訴法官可能要合法搜索票都非常案件量都因為這些政治的問題增加很多那我是希望政治的手不要去介入到司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11314.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11334.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
因為我跟很多基層的同仁在聊天跟調查官聊天他們就跟我說我說你們幹嘛幹這個是我們在吃飯私下吃飯的時候他跟我說沒辦法上面有交代所以我想基層跟我講的好朋友跟我講的我比較相信是真的啦我不相信官方上面的說法好不好意思耽誤大家耽誤主席這麼多時間謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11338.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11348.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
接下來請陳培宇委員、陳培宇委員不在、陳培宇委員不在、鍾嘉斌、鍾嘉斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11359.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11375.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
主席、謝謝主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關司長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生有請司法院吳秘書長、民事廳周庭長、還有人事處的陳處長、還有法務部的蔡部長請蔡部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11380.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11406.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
秘書長好、部長好、廳長好、處長好先請教秘書長剛剛有委員問到在2016年有賴浩鳴院長、前院長跟蘇永欽前副院長他們向蔡英文總統辭職請問他們是因應著什麼樣的情況之下去表達是因為政黨輪替還是因為新總統就任還是什麼原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11408.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11427.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
當時雖然在五月份的時候有黨團提出訴求哪個黨團是時代力量黨團提出一個訴求就是希望說五月也是就是說有一個交接聲音大一點五月有一個交接然後呢就是希望說這兩位院長副院長辭職就五月份的時候但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11429.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11436.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
當時的賴浩鳴司法院長他是在7月11號才請辭總統沒有馬上處理他為什麼請辭?是因為新總統就任?他是因為什麼請辭?那他可能當時有 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11450.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11476.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
他任期到10月31號屆滿所以他 任期將屆請辭 任期將屆但是總統也是到他要將屆之前4天10月27號才准辭所以並沒有所謂的因為是在力量黨能提出說新總統就任要建立一個憲政慣例所以要求司法院政務院長向新任總統或像原任任命的總統請辭 沒有啦沒有慣例 所以那個賴浩鳴 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11479.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11480.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11497.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11525.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
從2020年開始是那這是不是造成我們法院上很大的一個工作壓力對執行處變成是一個比較大的壓力好那我請教一下部長而且集中在臺北地院跟士林地院這兩個地院特別嚴重好那請問蔡部長關於這一點我問過了保險局也問過了金管會他說他們曾經要說來修行政執行法來解決這個問題我先解釋一下什麼強制保單執行保單就是說那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11526.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11555.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
要保人他因為欠了債那他有個保單在保險公司那裡結果債權人要求保險公司把他的保單解約拿回這個保單的解約金或者準備金來抵付這個債務所以就申請強制執行大概部長這樣有沒有了解這是民事強制執行還是行政強制執行那你是負責行政強制執行行政執行法是哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11558.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11575.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
行政執行法是因為他欠這個工的對包括欠稅也是欠稅或是欠罰款這個才是金管會是希望你們修行政執行法把這個改一下不要讓這些保單的受益人因此而失去了你覺得是不是應該修保險法還是修行政執行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11575.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11580.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
這一點我們有提出說為了避免殺雞取卵因為保單的解約金可能完全無法抵付債權 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11591.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11607.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
因此可是受益人就貧困損失了,包括他的癌症險、他的一些健康險都因為主約被解約、副約就也消失了。那麼有人提出用介入權的方式,讓受益人他可以介入來償付解約金,這樣的一個修法方向,司法院支持嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11610.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11629.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
委員關於這個部分因為其實這個涉及整個保險政策的問題那麼如果要做改變的話如果儘管會做這個改變保險法修改你們支持嗎這個我們尊重如果在保險法裡面做改變我們很尊重好 謝謝兩位請回部長跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11632.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11650.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
我先請教一下秘書長部長請回有一個叫圖靈測試對不起我們看看這個這個民事執政量我們現在就是說與金管會保險局和受險公會來協調統一格式流程降低執行法院的壓力你同意嗎在這個修法之前先做這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11653.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11656.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
圖靈測試區分回答者是人還是機器人?法官是人類還是判決產生器? |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11673.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11700.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這很簡單嘛當然是人類嘛對不對好 所以我們來看一下司法官的養成要相當長的時間以法官來說要這麼長的時間但是科技的成長跟引入相對的快所以就我們要解決目前的基案的案量您覺得法官 調整法官的緣額或培養來得比較迅速還是透過科技的引進比較能夠適應我們的環境上的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11703.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11726.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
很難回答來那當然要還是要從人倫來思考來好但是人要比較長的時間嘛我們現在看齁這個圖很有意思齁30年來啊我們的民事案件增長了6倍你看到什麼有沒有看到藍色的這個長條圖那我們的形式呢是紅色的長條圖那你看到的綠色的線條呢是民事的越軍結越軍辦結案他有一個到2027年呢2007、2006呢到一個高峰後啪跳水 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11733.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11733.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11751.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11770.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
民事新增了314萬件 刑事新增了45萬件所以未結案就 未結案就增加96%啊是啊 你能夠辦結的就是躺平啦數量呢 增加的就在上面是惡意亂數 還是我們立法者重型化 還是案件複雜化造成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11773.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11793.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
法院在不管怎樣是社會信賴的很重要的力量所以法院就被賦予各種要照料的書越來越多大家期待法院能夠把案量隨著案量的提高能夠把判決的能力也提高範圍也廣了恰恰相反直接躺平 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11794.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11804.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
為什麼我們往下看我們常常說上游缺水保下游土石流人力永遠不夠用你同意嗎是不是從源頭按量的控管比較重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11809.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11824.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
所以我們底下提出這幾個方法比如說在刑事上我們加強行政處遇在民事上我們透過律師的諮詢強化調解在程序上加強審查減少訴訟量一審量少上訴量就算減少你覺得這有沒有幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11828.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11849.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
這個應該一些有效率的方式這些應該都會有幫助所以你都支持好那我們來看一下訴訟減量行政簡化已經部分上路了你們有沒有做人力評估的影響影響的評估成效如何有沒有有沒有評估說你們現在所做的這所有的訴訟減量跟行政簡化到底有沒有讓案源源頭的案量減少你們有沒有評估過 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11850.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11867.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
因為最主要岸岩有時候我們無法控制你們有沒有控制那你怎麼知道你的有人要說對症下藥啊你今天看到岸岸一直成長你們祭出了訴訟減量祭出了行政簡化結果祭出的手法還是沒有壓下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11868.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11880.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那你這個對症就沒有下藥啦所以就有另外一種要限量困難的聲音就你們有沒有自己評估過當你們下了這個藥的時候病情有沒有比較好或減少惡化你們有沒有做這個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11882.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11901.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
如果你沒有做這評估你不斷地下藥下藥阿結果呢案例一直成長成長你怎麼知道哪個藥有效哪個藥沒有效那最主要在司法機關是很無奈阿案言一直來阿因為法令負擬阿秉事長我們科學方法啦你面對問題你提出解方 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11901.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11926.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
解方有沒有造成問題沒有繼續惡化也要評估嘛對不對請你們回去做評估來為了要減少訴訟讓法官能專注我們的審判核心業務我們提出了透過包括了我們的智慧科技來形成筆錄在確保治安的前提之下我們讓這個摘要的調查意見資料能夠用這個方式還有簡化判決書啊書狀的格式化那你認為這些有沒有幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11927.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11927.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
法官不是機器人 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11949.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11967.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
合理的工作才有裁判品質目前齁你們是有說一個欸你們有一個怎樣司法週刊啊說怎樣你們要去衡量法官的工作量案量對不對案量結案量那請問一下結案100件跟結案10件哪一件哪一個效率高那那結案100件跟結案10件兩個法官你認為誰的效率好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11976.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11997.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
當然要合理的結案品質才會好是 那你們有沒有評估所以你們目前這一個量化的數字叫做結案量這對法官壓力很大阿有沒有分類不同的案件他可能不需要不同的工作量所以是不是用合理的工作分類來衡量一個合理的結案量是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11998.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
12002.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我們明天就會舉行這樣一個會議所以請你們好好的落實對不同的案件他的合理的工作量做合理的評估不是以單一的結案數量是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
12018.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
12038.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
好那最後我們來看一下那這個統計你們就說從明天開始我就等於是今天問的嘛要統計才有辦法估算人力需求將幫助法官減壓那你們有辦法區分案件的複雜程度嗎有辦法吧是可以啊因為這個都會有一定的處理方式那最後我們最後要提到就是原額 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
12039.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
12056.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
其實我們剛剛講到了司法官尤其是法官的培養要很長的時間你們往往在一個司法院院長的任內他其實就算透過人總給你們員額你們都不見得來得及補對不對那我們來看一下這個剛剛都提出來了目前你們還有數字沒有改是13900人變成15000人那麼其實整體中央政府的員額是減7% |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
12064.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
12092.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
司法院的員額是從13000人變成15000人,增加了快8%你覺得人總有沒有給予我們司法院較多的員額,讓你們解決問題,有沒有?那因為我們現在需求,像今天有提出表嘛,要5000...我知道啦,我說從整體來看啦,一個人口袋,其他的小孩零用金都減了,給你的零用金是成長的,你覺得人總在員額上有沒有不給司法院? |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
12093.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
12093.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
12110.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
12135.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
平估後來的心智那果不出其然現在減縮為一萬五千人之後接下來的各項心智、憲法訴訟法那個國民法官法然後行政訴訟心智商業事件審理法等等的這一大堆心智增加法外工作負擔這個一千一百人現在證明就是杯水抽薪對不對對,加上明年要成立北部邵家法院很好,處長你不用那麼上氣不接下氣我們都知道你們需求很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12136.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12162.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
但是今天整體中華民國中央政府緣額是減7%的所以我要說的是說我們說話持平來論整個中央政府總緣額法他是在縮減的但是給司法院的緣額是要提高的但是提高的幅度還趕不上你的需求這是你要講的嘛 對不對好 那我們往這方面來思考但是除了時任法官之外法官有77條我們有憂鬱法官憂鬱法官有沒有記錄目前的緣額 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12164.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12164.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
主席總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12190.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12212.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
人事費用所以這個部分你們具體來提把這些 所以你們會發現喔過勞的法官好像都是年輕人耶我不是說年齡歧視但是年輕照長的因為有這個憂鬱制度他比較不容易過勞可是他一樣佔緣額如果他辦的案件少我們給他憂鬱因為法官終身職嘛 憲法81條的規定嘛 是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12214.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12239.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以過老的都是年輕的法官那我們怎樣把這個元額...應該不分年齡啦因為我看過太多年老的也是...所以我們秘書長終於還是幫忙同儕講個話啦我70歲啊我知道...所以你也很過老啦而且看過那個年老的這個...所以我是說你們設法要從這個元額上的計算去跟人種去argue可不可以? |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12240.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12240.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
三管齊下 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12258.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12279.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
案源要減量科技化協助分攤分流讓法官穿上核心判決合理評估工作量和結案量然後預估未來的需求這方面都很重要所以我們最後又有兩個提出要求請司法院3個月內提出書面報告合理評量各類案件所需的不同工作量並具以調配案量並評估未來的需求可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12281.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12301.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
請司法院衡量10年內憂鬱法官控制的緣合我可能要再加一句配合跟人事總署爭取並入未來整體的緣合需求並就法官跟書記官等為適當配置上個月你讀書沒報告我要說評為什麼這樣因為如果憂鬱法官的緣合可以控出來其實你要著雨給一些書記官因為書記官是沒有憂鬱的他們很憂鬱可是他們沒有得到憂鬱 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12304.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12305.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
王小玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12332.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12335.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我們先處理會議時間上午會議時間我們繼續進行至所有登記發言委員尋答結束為止接下來我們就請問委員謝謝好的謝謝主席有請秘書長還有次長請秘書長跟部長蔡部長請蔡部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12354.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12381.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
首先我想要講的就是死刑釋憲的辯論庭我昨天晚上花了一些時間把整個辯論庭的內容都看完了我必須說我非常肯定法務部的表現雖然說知道在這樣子的一個釋憲場合裡面絕大多數都是支持要廢除死刑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12384.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12393.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
的專家學者,可是法務部確實有捍衛目前的法律的制度,死刑的制度也提出了非常很好的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12395.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12397.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
司法院秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12418.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12441.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
拜託你回去要提醒曲中立院長還有大法官們請他們要尊重自己的職務職權知道作為一個司法的釋憲機關的分際在哪裡不要越組代跑他們就是一個法的適用者而不是一個立法的制定者希望他們不要自以為他們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12442.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12459.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
代表的進步的思想進步的這個立法者他們可以去取代立法權主導立法權這個其實是非常不對的在德國的非常多的法學者其實他們都有提出來要警示德國聯邦憲法法院要遵守他們的分際 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12461.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12470.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那麼大法官他的民意基礎再怎麼樣說他們有進階民意基礎這個法官還具有民意基礎可是他們的民意基礎絕對不及立法院的民意基礎所以請他們回去請您回去要轉告院長和大法官們請他們要節制他們自己的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12485.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12503.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那麼在昨天的大法官事件裡面其實有提到一點這邊要請教部長在森林大法官他質疑法務部這些年怠惰不做廢死的修法請問法務部是否失職呢大法官點名你們了 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12505.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12526.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我不曉得他是怎麼說的啦那我們是法律的執行者那會根據民意或是大院的要求我們會提出一些立法的草案來供大院來討論所以這是我們善盡我們本身的職責所以他說你們有提立法草有提修法草案嗎有提廢除死刑的修法草案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12527.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12556.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我們有要求外面的研究團體來幫我們做如果實行替代方案的研究有這樣的一個研究案但是沒有提出修法我們是有研究案因為總是有不同的聲音我想每個行政機關都會做研究計劃案那麼這個部分的話我必須先說我肯定部長您剛剛的回應確實法務部做一個行政機關它就是依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12557.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12571.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
目前的法律制度是怎麼樣的規定這個法務部就要去配依據法律來執行這個法律那麼我希望法務部但是呢我認為這個大法官很有趣竟然他認為說這個法務部呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12574.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12574.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
法務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12589.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12615.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
權利在哪裡?在這裡我必須要講我也認為大法官們現在是不是他們的憲法認知錯亂他們已經完全不理解什麼叫權利分立原則但在這樣的情況之下他們又如何能夠做出正確的憲法解釋希望部長回去可以勉勵同仁要謹守依法行政還有依法要依法來適用法律依法獨立的審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12618.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12633.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
去進行相關的這個相關的這個行政這個行政作為好那接下來我要請教這個秘書長我們看到其實思改博士會議的結論裡面那麼有特別提到要減輕法官的 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12638.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12659.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
要增加這個司法程序的效力以及要將司法官的人事制度要更加的多元化可是我們看到其實這個司法院他在這個去年司法院院長在去年所做的報告裡面他這個重點說你們的6年的司法改革歷程裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12660.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12672.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
看不出來有什麼樣的一個方案是要減輕司法院的人力配置要減輕法官的工作量 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12673.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12700.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我必須說我認為現在的司法院看起來你們的重點就是配合院長的上意這個他喜歡憲法訴訟法那麼你修了配合憲法訴訟法力推國民法官法也力推了國民法官法可是就像剛剛所說的其他前面幾位委員有指出這個配合著憲法訴訟法、國民法官法以及種種的這個相關訴訟法的修正其實也增加了法官很多的負擔所以很明顯的是員額不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12704.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12732.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那麼這個事情其實從過去到現在都非常清楚就知道法官的工作量很大我們的訴訟案件量也非常之多可是為什麼這個司法院遲遲都沒有改革的動作讓我不禁質疑司法院的司改到底是玩真的還是玩假的那麼我也看到就是在你們這次的業務報告裡面也有提到你未來要引進新的這個科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12733.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12734.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
一直都有,那為什麼一直都沒有做? |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12762.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12763.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
你們有沒有做得太慢了? |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12769.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12793.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
因為我真的發現司法院的效率是比其他的這個機關的效率要差得多而且可能你們的科技素養你們資訊素養程度也不夠所以都不知道說現在有很多很好的這個方便的這個3C的設備啊工具啊或是一些科技的工具是可以運用的可以大幅度的減輕法官、書記官以及其他的司法人員的這個勞力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12796.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12797.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我真的非常期待司法院應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12819.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12841.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
加緊的趕快追上現在科技的腳步在我們現在政府早就在講要數位化、科技化可是確實我們發現這個機關司法系統裡面的數位化的程度是遠不及其他的行政機關那這個部分的話是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12844.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12868.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
秘書長這邊要多注意還有另外一個部分我想要講的就是剛剛其實人事總署在他們今天的報告裡面已經有講到其實在108年司法院跟還有法務部等等都有增加了一千人的員額可是事實上到現在都還有缺額請問為什麼沒有補時呢這一部分我們處長他剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12871.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12878.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
方委員因為現在所剩的餘額是492人因為我們今年是14508距離總餘額上限還有492人那預計明年的114年要增列392人這是為了要因應北部少家法院的成立還有少年調查保護官的合理人力增加所以到115年的時候我們預算餘額只會剩下只有100人 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12899.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12922.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我要講就是說你們去看看日本日本的司法人力他們的司法員額如果就人口數比的話其實他們服務的案件量可能還比我們的法官還要更多但是他們也沒有增加那麼多的員額這個問題可能就出在是司法院裡面的很多的人力的運用沒有效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12923.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12931.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
還有就是說隨著就是近年來的訴訟案件大幅的增加我們這個辦公室這邊也有做出一些分析當發現這個訴訟案件可能都集中在幾大五大類型吧包含像什麼離婚如果民事的話像是離婚、賠償等等這些你們有沒有試圖的想要透過修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12945.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12973.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
去解決那些訴訟案件量那麼當然在刑事訴訟方面我們也發現一個問題就是現在法官輕判法官輕判的問題以至於就是很多人可能他們根本也不在乎反正被抓到了被判刑又怎麼樣很快就是一顆罰金所以我覺得這也是跟你們自己這個法院內部的審理案件相關的一些這個其實它是密切相關的不見得跟要增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12974.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
13002.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
人力增加原額有關我必須說時代在進步我們的政府組織精簡這是向來我們要遵循的目標那從剛剛的這個報告裡面也可以知道在全部的行政機關人力大幅這個縮減情況之下唯有司法院的人力是每年在增加但是如果說以現在法官的這樣子的一個辦案的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
13004.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
13004.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
還有另外就是我們也發現不僅是法官工作量大、壓力大 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
13024.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
13036.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
其實像書記官等等的壓力也很大我也聽了一些書記官的學生輩的朋友們有在講現在書記官也是高階低用啊明明他們是高考進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
13038.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
13038.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
司法院秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
13055.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
13081.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
沒那麼複雜的行政事務工作可以委由外派的人力來做可以將整個的業務的經費的運用做合理的調整那我認為可能是比較適當的還請司法院回去研議好 謝謝好 謝謝翁委員、謝謝秘書長、謝謝部長好 接下來請邱智維委員發言邱委員、邱智維委員、邱智維委員不在有請賴委員事保發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
13088.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
13099.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請法務部的蔡部長以及司法院的吳秘書長請蔡部長跟吳秘書長部長兩位長官好昨天的Face的辯論很清楚地看得到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
13116.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
13142.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
這大法官幾乎一面倒就是要廢死啊那個秘書長這裡啊你聽就好啦我不要你怎麼回答因為你沒講話餘地就是大法官要冒著乾冒著一個違反八成以上民意的大部會極可能做成違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
13144.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13170.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那我就請教部長如果他做成為說好三個月以後做成一個說死刑是違憲下一步怎麼樣如果很明確的做這樣的釋憲結果我們都會遵照這個結果來做必要的修法的提案所以會怎麼樣所以如果有就把死刑拿掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13171.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13194.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
這要看他釋憲的結果如何啦我想我們沒有那麼悲觀啦這個那個秘書長要補充一下如果做成這樣子你們通常會怎麼樣要求法務部那我們這個負責司法行政啦不管這個好那我講請你上去你要聽啦我們兩個人對話你聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13199.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13228.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
國澳區不是有三次的釋憲嗎?三次釋憲都說死刑是核心,對不對?部長對對嘛,阿奇怪呢?阿為什麼可以一要再、再要三、三要四,一直來釋憲呢?為什麼可以?阿如果他這樣做出來,能不能我受害者我的家屬,受害者家屬,被殺掉的,無辜殺掉的那些家屬可以不可以,我也提出一個釋憲,可以嗎?我請加盟你 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13230.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13257.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
申請權當然就依照憲法訴訟法誰有權他就可以提出申請但你受不受理當然是憲法法院來做決定這個我現在就明白主張了在這個國會殿堂我就明白主張了如果大法官兩三個月之後大法官會議這一次憲法法庭之後做成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13259.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13261.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
實行是違憲的話絕對引起一大波的一個民怨我們來發動公投啊公投我請教部長你是這份專家公投的效力大還是司法官還是大法官解釋的效力大你要告訴我哪個大誰大 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13285.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13288.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
結果出來就大法官說是違憲然後人民發動公投把他推翻掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13309.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13327.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那我們就看他不同的規定嘛公投有公投法那事先有憲法訴訟法那看各相關的居然大法官會講說民意不重要阿台灣現在是什麼國際上跟人家講就是我們的民主我們的自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13330.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13356.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
民主叫什麼?民主就是以人民為主叫人民主啊人民最大結果每一次命令就是八成每一次命令八成老實講 蔡部長你們這個時候一分天命啊講這個這麼大聲的話說你們反對廢食啊結果你們死出庸職而已你們如果不要有那個行政命令哪裡有什麼債神非常上訴跟憲法法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13357.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13377.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
那不是行政命令行事訴訟法就有規定在審非常上述他有這樣的權利啊憲法法庭實行的不只是你們的行政命令你剛剛講是行事訴訟是另外一件事行政命令是根據法律來訂定的嘛法律行事訴訟法就有規定他有在審的權利他有非常上述的權利嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13378.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13394.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
沒有規定死刑犯有這個權利啦沒有規定死刑犯有這個權利是你們自己家的法律有規定我們只是跟照法律來訂定沒有 上一次我在這裡問你的問題是你跟我回答今天不一樣喔但是 事先這個部分就是說 規定啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13395.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13414.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
行政法院沒有規定這個喔沒有規定這個死刑犯不執行是你們有一個死刑犯的執行條件你們說一定要經過再審非常上述憲法法庭是你們的行政命令把它加上去的所以你們現在就感覺好像我的感覺是你們跟道法官在唱雙簧捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13415.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13416.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13440.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13451.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
外界的解讀是什麼?這幾個大法官要感念啊,可能都快學習,要感念蔡英文提名當大法官,所以在他們退議前要獻給蔡英文一個卸任的禮物啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13457.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13471.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
蔡英文、念茲再次包括你們司法院長、許中立這兩位都是主張廢死一路在推動廢死然後法務部長也不敢去講話因為他是老闆所以只能這樣子所以今天來講看到說法務部這樣盡力去fight其實這都假的老闆最重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13480.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13489.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
沒有 我們是鑑定我們的立場嘛跟我們的職責嘛沒有啦 那個 那個 部長啊你 你 你確定不會留任嗎不會啊啊 所以要走之前 要講真話啊那所以我講的都是真話啊講真話就是說 你這樣不幾步不幾步這就是 這樣假的啊 就玩一趟過程給大家看 最後我請問你 我就一句話 問完我就下來了齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13509.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13532.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
如果大法官解釋說違憲,你能不能接受?個人能不能接受?我們就看他解釋文如何,然後也會參考不同意見書。不是你要聽沒有啦,你就說能接受不能接受兩句而已,要選你啊,能不能接受?結果我大帽子就是合乎憲法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13538.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13543.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
大帽子不合乎憲法就是違憲不違憲法務部的立場就是認為合憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13546.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13546.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13573.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13595.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
那接下來有請鄭天才委員、鄭天才、鄭天才委員不在有請鄭振淺委員、鄭振淺、鄭振淺委員不在所有發言登記、登記發言委員均已發言完畢、詢答結束委員諮詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關競速送交個別委員及本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13597.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13608.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
委員復婚期所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆本次會議到此結束現在散會謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13624.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13625.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13660.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13669.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
法定人數不足 |