| IVOD_ID |
15841 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15841 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-22-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-24T08:30:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-24T12:31:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:00:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d1c34ab709cdaffb08bd03a951da4504b3be8d109af184be469b1e397c17565825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案4案。
(4月24日及25日二天一次會)） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:14 - 12:31:00 |
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MING PAO CANADA 字幕組 |
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1842.25 |
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1854.619 |
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報告委員會出席委員13人以達法定人數現在開會本週三、四一次會首先我們進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1864.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1888.578 |
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中央民國103年4月18日上午9時至12時1分地點本院群賢樓10會議室出席委員萬滿林委員等15人列席委員王洪威委員等22人列席人員4月17日教育部部長潘文忠率同有關人員4月18日教育部政務次長劉孟琦率同有關人員財政部副稅署專門委員王俊龍請政院主席總署公務預算署專門委員吳明修 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1889.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1915.488 |
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金融監督管理委員會保險局專門委員王啟華主席、科招及委員志恩4月17日報告時想依宣讀上會議事錄決定議事錄確定。二、教育部部長潘文忠列席就教改30年廣設大學及技專升格如今面臨診病退場之問題及對策進行專題報告．並備質詢。本人已曾由委員萬美玲的20人提出質詢。軍警教育部部長潘文忠及相關人員及其答覆說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1915.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1943.429 |
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六、委員莊瑞、熊等5人提出書面質詢決定一、報告解詢到完畢二、委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報三、對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆4月18日討論事項一、審查委員科徵等16人凝聚大學法第35條條文修正草案案二、審查委員科徵等16人凝聚專科學校法第44條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1944.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1960.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
三、審查委員柯真等17人凝聚國民體育法修正草案等4案僅進行詢答本議程採綜合詢答由委員洪孟楷等16人提出質詢軍經教育部政務次長劉孟琦及相關人員即席答覆說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1960.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1981.045 |
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另有委員吳春成等二人提出書面質詢決議一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報三、對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分,僅相關機關建樹與書面答覆四、大學法、專科學校法、國民體育法相關修正草案,令定期繼續審查通過臨時提案四項宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1987.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2006.034 |
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由於在場人有委員未達一決人數三人所以我們意識度暫不確定今天的議程有兩個首先是邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會來列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2006.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2010.698 |
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好 那我們首先來介紹在場的官員我們核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2033.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2049.014 |
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還有我們核能安全委員會兼國家原子能科技研究院副主任委員跟董事長張欣還有我們外交部臺灣日本關係協會的專門委員劉拓還有我們交通部中央氣象署陳家平署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2058.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2082.641 |
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交通部行政司盧清泉檢任記政交通部台灣港務公司謝志南處長衛生福利部食品藥物管理署林金富副署長農業部漁業署陳建佑副署長農業部水產試驗所張可陽組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2086.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2108.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
海洋委員會國家海洋研究院代理主任秘書張志維行政院主計總署公務預算處廖玉琳專門委員好 謝謝謝謝以上的官員來列席那我們現在就來請河安會陳主任委員來進行報告時間10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2120.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2146.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席、各位委員、女士、先生大家好今天很榮幸代表核能安全委員會並協同各單位主管向大院進行《我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應》專題報告以及113年公務預算的解凍報告在此感謝大院委員對本會各項工作的支持及指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2147.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2168.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
首先就我國周遭海域含氚廢水的監控與因應進行報告因應日本含氚廢水的排放本會邀集6個部會共同組成跨部會的因應平台推動各項準備跟因應措施目前已經召開17次的跨部會的因應會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2170.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2193.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因應日本長達30年輔導含氚廢水的排放作業河安會主持跨部會國家海域計畫落實執行排放前的技術整備排放後的應對措施以及持續規劃未來長期監控以守護我國海域的輻射安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2194.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2209.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
而為更進一步提升檢測量能另外在去年開始執行生物栓檢測量能提升計畫將在今年6月擴增國內生物栓檢測實驗室由1間到3間檢測量能由每年500件到每年2000件 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2216.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2243.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我國因應日本含氚廢水的排放在跨部會合作下已經有明確有效的因應策略以下簡要說明源頭掌握、擴散預報、強化監測跟資訊公開等四項措施的整備、因應跟精進作為在源頭掌握部分核安會持續跟外交部協力 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2245.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2272.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
密切掌握日本含氚廢水的管制動態迄今已經4次赴日本福島實地考察並跟日本辦理了21次視訊交流會議日本迄今已經執行4個批次的排放並在本月19號開始第5批次的排放核安會均持續關注相關動態跟安全監控並適時發布第16則的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2275.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2296.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
及時資訊。禾安會跟交通部合作以10年的歷史洋流資料進行案例評估先行瞭解日本排放的作業對台灣海域的影響仍在背景變動範圍之內此外每天均提供未來7天的擴散預報的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2298.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2308.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
目前各區域的海水氚濃度的影響皆在WHO飲水標準的1%以下屬於安全正常範圍的綠燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2311.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2329.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
另外考量中國核電廠多分部在台灣海峽沿岸將持續精進擴散評估的分析能力預計今年第三季執行中國核電廠穿排放的案例分析以完善海域預警的評估能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2332.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2345.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
112年河安會跟農業部、衛福部、海委會等跨部會合作執行海水、漁獲物等各項海域樣本的取樣檢測共完成4270件的檢測結果均無異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2350.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2375.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
針對海水監測河安會更積極跟國家實驗研究院海洋中心共同合作其結合濾淨號海洋研究船的資源擴大監測的頻次跟範圍另外也將逐步建立碳14跟碳129的分析能力精進海域輻射的監測技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2378.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2398.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
為落實資訊公開、河岸會建置放射性物質海域擴散海洋資訊平台作為日本含氚廢水排放相關資訊的正確傳遞的窗口目前仍持續精進以圖像化、科普化的目標提供更親民的使用者介面 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2399.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2419.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
另外也結合河安一點通APP製作科普圖卡並在河安會舉辦的科普展中推廣政府對氚水排放應對的科普知識接下來,針對本會113年預算解凍報告進行摘要的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2420.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2437.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
本會組織改造後預算原額的增加是因為務管局的移入以及安置核研所人員所致而預算原額的空缺將依法臨步以支持支援核安管制技術的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2438.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2461.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對於國研院的監督將會依照績效評鑒的辦法結合外部專家學者以及專案定期查核評鑒國研院的營運績效確保各項專案計畫的執行成效。核安會亦嚴格執行國內用過核子燃料乾除的安全管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2462.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2481.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
包括要求台電定期辦理核一室外乾除設施的統合演練並執行核二乾除複箱設備組件的製造檢查以持續督促台電按期程推動核一、核二、核三廠室內乾除的新建計劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2483.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2498.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我國高放儲置的計畫分成五個階段預計在2055年完工目前已經進入第二個階段候選場址的評選跟核定至於場址特定型的地下實驗室則規劃在場址詳細調查跟試驗的第三階段執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2504.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2530.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
核安會已經制定安全管理的規則跟場址的規範並且要求台電應該定期進行最終處置的安全論證滾動檢討修正處置計畫以跟國際接軌我國已經建立境外發生核災的應應機制包括建置境外輻射程的影響評估系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2531.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2559.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
環境輻射監測站以及激動輻射偵測儀等另外針對不同的情境亦執行境外核災的模擬演練並且跟衛福部、農業部合作辦理農漁畜牧產品飲用水、食品檢測的管制工作以落實各項的整備作業國園院的六佛化有安定化處理跟處置的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2561.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2590.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
目前已經取得裝載容器的使用許可預計在今年年底運送到英國而國研院的迴旋加速器的運維跟核一製藥中心的人力配置部分已經逐年進行30 MeV迴旋加速器老化元件的汰換運轉力已經提升到90%以上至於核一藥物中心今年一將藉由院聘人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2591.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2601.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
在補充以穩定國內核醫藥物的供應。核安會持續運用新媒體的傳播、跨部、跨單位的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2602.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2626.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
自辦策展的多元管道推廣原子能科普教育此外藉由全民參與事務諮詢會委員所提供的建議調整公眾參與以及溝通的作為以增進民眾參與原子能公共事務的意願針對我國周遭海域含氚廢水的監測與因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2628.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2654.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
核安會將持續透過跨部會的合作以四項的配套措施確保海域環境跟民眾的食品安全此外亦持續執行核安、福安、放射性廢棄物的安全處理等安全管制工作經濟原子能技術的研發拓展相關的民生應用以落實資訊公開跟民眾參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2658.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2686.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
以上報告敬請各位委員先進不吝指教並請同意預算解凍以立本會各項工作的推動跟延續再次感謝委員的支持謝謝好 謝謝陳主任委員的口頭報告那我們先來介紹現場的委員我們看到洪孟凱委員還有我們柯志恩召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2689.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2689.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
衛福部林副署長報告時間5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2713.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2731.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
主席、各位委員、女士、先生今天大院第11屆第1會期會議衛務部曾邀列席報告深感榮幸衛務部知就我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應提出說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2731.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2758.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
敬請各位委員不吝會議指教首先,衛務部對日本食品輻射安全管理並持保障國人健康及食品安全與安心原則持續關注此議題並積極與跨部會共同合作採取嚴謹監控措施並持續關注保障國人食品安全與安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2759.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2769.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
因應日本自112年8月24日起以海洋排放方式處置福島第一核電廠的核災含氚廢水 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2771.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2789.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
第一點國家原子能科技研究院以及本部食品藥物管理署已於112年公開生物穿檢驗方法目前食品中穿的檢驗系由國家原子能科技研究院協助執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2790.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2819.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
該院並於113年度輔導核能安全委員會輔射偵測中心與高雄市政府衛生局建置食品中氚檢驗之實驗室及相關檢測技術第二點本部自111年起執行日本水產品放射性氚含量背景值調查日本開始排放前 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2820.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2845.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
本部的抽樣檢驗件數為52件日本排放後迄今抽樣檢驗為127件均未檢出穿相關的資訊並公開於國家原子能科技研究院與核能安全委員會合作製作與維護的放射物質海域擴散海洋資訊平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2847.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2871.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
跨部會輻射監測整合儀表板以及在衛福部食品藥物管理署網站的日本食品管理工作專區之最新日本輸入食品輻射監測資訊本部陳大院各委員之指教及監督在此敬致謝誠並請各位委員持續予以支持以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2877.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2881.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
謝謝衛福部林副署長的口頭報告接下來請農業部陳副署長來進行報告時間5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2893.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2913.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席、各位委員、先生、女士、農業部在這邊奉邀出席大院第11屆第1會期群體委員會的一個部分報告我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控及因應案以下緊究該議題的部分敬請各位委員不吝指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2914.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2928.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
民國100年311福島核災後我們本部立即派試驗船到北太平洋秋刀漁場進行所謂的海水及魚體的採樣檢測結果皆在標準背景值以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2929.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2958.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
然後後續的部分與核安會的部分持續對於我國周遭的海水、海域還有遠洋的經濟性漁獲對於涉134、137進行監測從福島核災期到4月15號的部分共檢測了7308件包括涉6926件以及川382件的部分皆沒有輻射污染情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2960.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2975.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
106年起本部的水產試驗所的部分以核安慰在周遭海域的部分針對20個點去做所謂的涉134、137及穿輻射物質的檢測到112年的部分提升到62個站點 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2977.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2999.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
結果都是符合標準的113年的部分因應試驗船的太舊換新還有就是所謂的漁船授訓的需求目前暫時改為15個策戰但是是用所謂的一計一次每一週一次的部分改成每週一次的部分來維持原來的數量那下半年的部分就可以維持原來的規劃的部分繼續進行採樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3001.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3019.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
二、本部的部分是參與所謂的三配套四原則裡面的所謂的強化監測跟資訊公開的部分來做共同執行首先就強化監測措施的部分本部加入這樣子的一個跨部會平台的部分由核安會這邊來主責測驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3022.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3044.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
本部的部分負責臺灣周遭海域及北太平洋公海的漁獲及海水檢測來捍衛漁民的權益跟保障國人的食與安全在沿境海規劃的部分從110年的500件的部分增加到112年的3000件而且我們採樣的漁種是按月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3044.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3066.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
分為常態性的漁種跟季節性的漁種來確保樣本的多樣性跟所謂的代表性的部分那在北太平洋公海的漁場援養漁貨的部分包括秋刀魚的部分也是從110年的50件到112年的150件而且已經含括所有所謂的漁船的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3067.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3083.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
在112年8月24號在排放氚廢水以後那進到所謂的相關的部分我們在9月11號已經派船到太平洋公海的部分去對於海水跟漁獲的部分去做採樣分析結果均無色異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3084.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3108.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
配合核安會的部分在做所謂的生物氚檢測量能提升計畫的部分我們未來的部分也在113年會將氚的檢測的部分從150件提升到500件那對於資訊公開這一塊的部分我們配合核安會然後希望能加強跟漁民的風險溝通藉由漁民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3109.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3134.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
做談會以及相關的這些的過程的部分我們辦理了很多場次的一個說明然後並依照跨部會平台的部分在我們的所謂的漁業署的輻射專區的網站的部分還有就是與核安會的部分去做執行平台的連結透由所謂的儀表板的部分每週二固定相關的檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3135.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3161.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那決議的部分就是未來我們會強化繼續做這樣子的一個行為一旦有發掘到檢測異常的部分我們會去追蹤漁獲的流向依食安法啟動相關的封存以及對於追蹤漁船商的作業的形態那最後的部分會依照這個指定的部分去對於他做即時的檢驗那農業部的報告敬請各位委員先進指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3166.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3180.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
謝謝陳副署長的口頭報告那我們現在進行綜合詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止時間為10點30分委員如有臨時提案也請於10點30分前提出並以本會委員林倩啟委員質詢結束後我們進行解凍案跟臨時提案的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3193.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3202.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
處理提案時若提案委員跟聯署委員不在場原例不予處理首先就請發言登記第一位的洪孟楷委員質詢主席謝謝 麻煩請陳東陽主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3220.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3234.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
主委好主委我們最近本期有看到一個新聞是我們這個核碩聯合科技的董事長童子賢他也是之前有被傳出說可能會是準總統賴清德最佳的革魁人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3235.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3260.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
當然他最後沒有接任這個閣僱不過他有提到這個缺電危機坦誠講說30年前他是熱心的反核人士但10年前關注地球暖化的議題陷入地球暖化跟反核間的掙扎這兩三年慢慢想清楚地球暖化才是人類的公敵核能不是因為核能可以是綠能的盟友而非敵人所以如果說能源不當 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3260.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3273.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
使用能源不當將會造成無法挽回的地球暖化摧毀地球文明核能可以是一種技術安全係數就好像是航空業的安全技術可以好好提升好好控管這一方法主委認同嗎是的認同認同哪一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3281.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3292.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
他是可以非常仔細的去維持他的安全但是還是有一些例外人為疏失、天災 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3294.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3311.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那撇開這一些 任何事情 任何發電也都有人為疏失跟天災嘛當然藍媒有人為疏失跟天災 燃氣有人為疏失跟天災但是地球暖化是人類的公敵 核能不是 你認同嗎我想這個是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3319.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3339.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
不同人有不同的見解如果我們大家都是看法一致那社會上就有共識所以這個其實社會上我剛才在外面記者答詢我就強調就是說其實我們還是要盡可能的在某一個程度上盡可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3339.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3364.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
打到社會的共識2018年以核兩月公投獲得近600萬選民的支持這算不算社會共識如果社會有一定的共識超過半數的民眾出來投票2018年以核養綠公投通過了算不算社會共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3365.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3371.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
本席跟你討論技術科學你跟我討論政論節目主委你是核能安全委員會主委還是政論節目主持人 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3392.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3419.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我是講我們社會上大家的看法大家來這邊備詢好好就事論事是的核能可以是綠能的盟友而非敵人這句話認不認同綠能它有比較嚴謹的定義那麼核能它其實是一個低碳的能源那這個是毫無疑問的那麼我其實100%贊同 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3422.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3445.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
但是贊同什麼贊同他是低碳能源是有助於減碳比藍煤低碳比燃氣低碳比火力發電低碳更不會造成空氣汙染也不會造成地球暖化是這樣嗎是的來 主委那既然這樣子可是現在的執政黨當然有推所謂的非核家園2025 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3447.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3473.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那看起來非核家園2025又可能跳票因為能源配比沒有辦法達成嘛但另外一個部分上一次我們的召委也有質詢過就說非核小組所謂行政院非核小組的開會居然3年沒有開了你有沒有注意到這個事情是的非核小組的運作要點裡面規定應該要多久開一次會 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3477.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3487.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
兩個月開一次會必要的時候可以召開臨時會這是非核小組運作要點裡面清楚說明最後一次開會是什麼時候110年的4月28日距離現在剛好真的就是三年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3502.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3529.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以3年裡面沒有開會再來我想請教非核小組的運作要點裡面討論推動協調溝通的事務有包括哪一些其中重要的部分我不問你細微末節問你重要的部分研究協調推動有包括哪一些它包含最重要的推動中期暫時儲存設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3531.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3557.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
核廢料的處理還有還有什麼全民共識沒有全民共識啦拜託裡面還有包括核電廠的廚藝啊核電廠的廚藝是不是很重要的議題應該要討論應該要溝通過去這三年沒有開會過去核電廠有沒有廚藝有有廚藝今年核三廠一號機是不是七月到期可能會停止運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3559.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3584.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那既然過去三年有核二廠的一號機、二號機停機今年七月有核三廠一號機要停機那結果那麼重要的核電廠要除役的一個過程裡面非核小組完全不開會主委認同嗎主委可以接受嗎你甚至在裡面作業要點裡面都還沒有核安會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3586.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3615.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
你核安會被作業要點排除在外知道嗎因為裡面規劃的還是原子能委員會啊還是你的前身啊所以你們做三年沒開會讓你組織都已經改造了你都還不知道為什麼因為三年沒開會啊那主委上一次我們召委有質詢過你有沒有在發函要求督促、建請行政院要開會還是認為沒開會無所謂反正大家不關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3616.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3644.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
兩者一攤沒我的事主委 說明一下你上一次質詢完之後你有什麼樣的作為不是 我在問主委您是您是務管組組長好 那主委除非你想要篡位否則我還是請教主委來 主委有什麼樣的措施我們有注意到這一點但是召開會議這個是行政院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3645.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3672.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
有沒有見解 有沒有認為有必要我就講嘛 剛剛作業要點裡面第二點很重要是核電廠的廚藝啊您應該是一個專業的文官要給長官建議也應該要盡一個幕僚之責要告訴長官說現在過去三年沒有開會了除非你民進黨的非核家園含假的除非你沒有打算要推動否則過去三年大家不開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3675.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3687.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
薪水小偷不是不是只是點頭啦是認同薪水小偷這句話沒辦法認同沒辦法認同那三年不開會是 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3690.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3713.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
已經幾倍了兩個月應該要開一次會的三年不開會那就代表有十五次十幾次啊六、十八、十八次來最後今天討論到的是含氚廢水的排放部分國際原子能總署有去三月的時候前往日本考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3714.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3740.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
昨天又從23號到26號又要再度跟11個會員國專家組成專案任務小組獨立身份赴日進行安全的審查本席都希望是說能夠安全在安全監控無虞的情況你們今天的報告都一直講是說沒有問題安全那但是我們沒有辦法到現場去看那過去這段時間我們有沒有爭取過希望能夠共同參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3743.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3758.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這個11個會員國都是IAEA的member那麼在我們的報告書跟PowerPoint裡面其實有講我們有4次專家實地的訪查團4次包含到福島那麼我們最近是什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3759.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3776.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
最近一次是去年10月10月底到11月初我們副主委帶隊的就是前任副主委所以我們有充分的交流那另外我跟委員報告我們會裡面其實有駐日的專責的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3778.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3805.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
主委說實在話國際原子能總署的考察以及11個會員國考察跟說我們自己獨立前往考察其實還是有很大的差別為什麼這麼講我們可以看到的東西不一樣我們可以清楚了解的狀況不一樣我們能夠要求日方給我們看到的東西也不一樣這個很明白不用拿那個東西來搪塞本席今天很清楚明白告知 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3806.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3831.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
你說這些會員國裡面跟日本福島相關距離海域來講有哪幾個會員國比我們台灣近其實相對來講一定少我們相對來講是相對比較近的對嘛 沒有錯嘛我們相對來講是比較近的嘛比其他會員國嘛那既然其他會員國都可以來做申請那我們到目前為止既然有看到這個狀況是不是應該要透過相關外交管道當然 我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3834.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3857.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
中華民國處境不容易但是該爭取的該要求的我們當然應該要求阿因為這對於我們台灣2300萬人都是非常重要的阿尤其我們海域那麼的近那人家都去前往看了我們有沒有試圖不管是任何的管道都要表達我們希望能夠共同爭取共同參與有沒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3860.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3887.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我跟委員報告,IAEA是聯合國的會員國的附屬組織所以他參加的member都是聯合國的會員國那麼我們知道我們外交的處境很困難本席都講了我了解我們現在中華民國外交處境但是過去我們不是沒有辦法參加國際組織那是現在執政黨的一個狀況但重點在於是說我們要發聲我們要表達我們希望能夠前往參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3888.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3894.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
瞭解 這沒問題好 那我們差不多時間到了喔 謝謝 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝主委那我們有請下一位柯志恩委員謝謝主席 我們是不是請我們的主委有請主委 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3913.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3934.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
主委好,我們特別針對今天的主題有關於含氚廢水的問題因為大家都非常擔心是不是我們會吃到有關於放射性的食物然後我們的漁獲量、漁民也非常的關切所以你認為從2020年這個議題出來之後因為它這個儲存的空間已經儲滿所以它必須要排放你覺得這個會議重不重要?你覺得這個議題重不重要? |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3937.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3938.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3952.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3952.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
主委或副主委有親自主持過嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3968.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3990.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們是主任秘書主持怎麼會是主任秘書呢你會不會覺得這個是延續過去沒有啊怎麼會延續過去我們來給你看一下我跟委員報告因為我們核安會改制之後我們副主委只有剩一位他是一樣啊主委如果這很重要的話你過去都還是有個副主委你現在已經變成降級的單位沒有問題但是呢有你 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3991.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4013.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
或是由你的副署長來出席是不是表達你對這件事情重要就你們都只派主密所以我個人會覺得你們對這個會議的所謂的重要性這麼樣的部分已經幫你整理出來其實我並不覺得你們這麼重視你覺得第18次的會議會在520之前由你親自主持嗎因為那是一個態度的誠意的表現沒有問題520之前什麼時候已經快要接近了 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4014.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4035.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
沒有問題沒有問題就是會你好 我們就來看一下然後我們剛剛看到了我們非常關切有關於這個到底是你現在目前為止已經有5批次了嘛我看到你的報告已經有5批次了好 但是呢主委你認為目前周邊是否還有沒有機會是檢測到輻射異常或是我們的漁獲會不會檢測出含氚或其他的放射性物質你目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4042.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4061.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
目前的檢測都沒有了但是這個牽扯到那個sampling就是你取點怎麼取點對這是最重要的好你沒有檢測到來諸位這是這個重點所在嘛因為你不要忘記我們這次的廢水要排放日本的廢水排放要30年連續30年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4064.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4070.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那30年時間目前你都只能用多核種去核的這個設備嘛LPS來檢測嘛 對不對但是這個檢測是沒有辦法檢測到氚沒有問題吧其他都可以沒有辦法檢測到氚那你怎麼知你必須要通過稀釋過濾對 這就是問題所在 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4082.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4105.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以未來這30年當中如果我們這個去放射性核種的效率變差了或者是SOP有任何的問題了最重要是我們沒有辦法參加IAEA的這個調查團我們台灣有最好的分析的人才我們只能得到間接的一個資料所以說呢你都沒有辦法到源頭來做一個取樣這是事實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4107.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4107.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我們有到日本福島你有採樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4125.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4152.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我知道你很難講因為就我的理解就我的理解你的內部理念有拿到日本福島電廠給你們的樣本但是呢你們也做了分析但是你們不敢公開是不是有這件事因為是安全的因為安全的問題理由其實很大的理由就是因為日本給了台灣沒有給中國大陸所以呢因為沒有給中國大陸日本怕觸怒所以以至於你們有樣本你們到現在為止都還沒有公開這是不是一個事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4154.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4177.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
主委這是不是一個事實我有沒有給中國大陸我沒辦法告訴你日本沒有辦法告訴你但是你沒有拿到樣本裡面也做了分析但是你並沒有公開這是不是一個事實我們在意的是安全的問題所以啊這是很安全那你既然拿到樣本我們有最好的分析人才既然拿到這個樣本日本也給你的為什麼不公開你們就留著自己看這還是有很多外交的側面在所以我只問說這是不是一個事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4180.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4196.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好 主委 您的態度我已經大概知道我也不為難你但是呢 這大概牽涉到一些的外交的部分但是 我也強調這個安全是非常的重要的所以呢 主委 您的態度已經說明了非常的多了但是呢 我還是強調如果能夠請外交部來協助雖然我沒有進入這個組織但是 不要每一次都只是在他們地方接受他們的這個所謂的簡報報告然後呢 我們最要的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4206.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4220.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
希望你能夠拿到樣本然後能夠做好然後把這個數據告訴我們這才是一個能夠安定大家的方法既然你這麼有大的信心說他沒有任何的問題所以呢我們就要問嘛我剛剛說分析人才是非常的夠的啊但是我們核安的檢測人力到底夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4222.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4244.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
因為你看相對於海保署相對於海巡署相對於漁業署動輒上百人你核安的分析人力嘛你看目前的偵測專機就有12個再加上原來的國研院6個你18個你的解凍來說你們還告訴我這很多都是從國研院前身核研所來的而且屬於過度性質的員額那這個部分來說你覺得未來還有人力來做檢測嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4248.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4275.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
目前是沒有問題嗎目前是沒有問題目前沒有問題那個我跟委員報告偵測中心他是在高雄他是一個全部都是lab全部都是你現在我等一下還會問到那兩個檢測的包括高雄但是我只問到這個檢測的部分所以我還要特別問到剛剛大家非常的關切除了這個問題之外就等一下我們在解凍的時候可以來做討論因為我時間非常的有限我只知道擔心目前到底肥喝料有沒有人來管理因為你目前來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4277.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4301.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
在第一年的時候這個有關放射性的廢棄物的處理的運轉人員的檢測在2016年的時候你有72人報考合格是41人到去年為止只剩下29個人合格15連5成都不到我是擔心到最後核廢掉都沒有專業人員要來做這樣的考核都沒有人來做這個處理然後你現在目前為止這個核廢掉該怎麼樣來做這是你應該要特別注意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4304.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4325.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
好,然後接下來呢因為時間的關係所以我適度地要很快我上次有特別提到的核工人才核工人才裡面我們過去因為非常強調但這些人已經慢慢凋零了,好吧很多的核工人才都已經退休然後呢我們又不太重視核能所以以至於我們的人才目前為止都拿去給美國人使用了但是主委你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4326.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4335.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
目前有英國把他們的合共的博士班送到我們台灣的清大因為他們有為期10天的反應器操作訓練課程主委你知道這件事嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4336.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4339.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
昨年送來的一批17位英國把博士生送到我們台灣來今年有15位一向五年而且他們到2027年現在英國跟清大恰談第二個五年計畫所以呢我告訴你原因是什麼你看英國把他們的核工潤商送到我們台灣的清大來因為我們台灣清大還有這些食物可以教導他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4360.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4382.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們現在的核工人才萬一哪一天我們的核能核工又再一次的蓬勃的時候我們反而要把我們的人送到別人國家去我每次看到這件事情我就覺得很感慨啊別人送到我們這邊來然後我們這邊慢慢凋零完之後然後呢到最後萬一我們有些困境的話我們搞不好就變成下一個英國要把我們未來的很多的核工的人送到國外去你覺得會不會有這種可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4383.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4406.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我是很感嘆的我同意委員的看法人才培育的傳承是非常重要非常重要但是當你沒有這個市場當這個政府根本完全不在乎這個核能未來的發展的時候你就會變成別的國家來用我們這些的設備跟人才來去做的這是我們台灣高等教育、核工教育很大的一個悲哀啦主委 這真的我要特別講啦好 了解好 然後就沒事啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4410.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4430.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我上一次有跟委員報告其實我們內部其實有在討論最後時間關係主席請給我一個個時間就好我要請衛福部我只要問一下我們目前的川的檢驗衛福部的部分因為都已經來了到最後你們來我們都沒讓你問到我們也覺得很不好意思我們還是要問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4431.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4445.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
對不起因為你們目前為止過去你告訴我說沒有辦法檢測因為你知道食藥署對於這些食品包括退官、銷毀跟退運這三種來處理這些方式嘛沒錯吧你們現在目前為止以前你們告訴我們說沒有辦法檢測到磚那目前來說因為你們說磚沒有限量標準嘛所以沒有辦法檢測那你目前有一個這個實施計畫專案對不對那我想請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4455.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4482.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
實要數是不是已經代表核廢水的氚已經可以納入我們食品這個邊境的管制的行列來做一個檢測有沒有辦法跟委員報告目前確實有檢測方法但是他檢測的時間很長所以我們目前的做法是在輸入的當下去取樣然後然後驗完了以後再做看有沒有檢出去做監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4483.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4485.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
不列入在邊境核判合格與否的法案我們持續監測目前都未檢出都沒有檢出氚 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4501.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4506.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
高雄市衛生局還有我們的輻射偵測中心你們要設置這個穿的實驗室嗎?對那什麼時候可以建置好?高雄市目前建置中然後我們目前都有在檢測可以估計在今年年底前可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4527.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4539.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
6月是他們在協助高雄市來建立6月是不是好 下一次520之後我就要好好來監督這個川的實驗室因為目前廢水含這個川我們還是會非常的重視這樣的一個問題好不好好 謝謝那我們有請下一位萬美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4558.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4561.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請陳主委有請陳主委萬委員早主委早主委我們在403大地震之後陸陸續續一直都有餘震來發生那台電它有坦言在部分的電廠電力系統是有受到影響的那請問一下主委目前我們現在核電廠有沒有因為地震有任何受損的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4583.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4603.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
零四零三地震的時候到現在對 我們核一廠跟核二廠燃料池的水有溢出那麼這個部分大概有3600公升那麼但是我們很快的就清理完畢那也有儲屋那麼到目前大概都還安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4604.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4605.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
4月5日運轉中的核三長二號機降載解連與403大地震有沒有關係? |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4624.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4638.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
沒有,他們是定期在維修或者是檢視跟核三廠沒有關係0403對核三廠的影響是出現的所以也是沒有影響嗎再來我們來討論一下我們看一下這個有一個表格根據我們來看台電它的資料來顯示核一廠、核二廠、核三廠耐震的能力分別是0.51G、0.67G、0.72G我們可以看到表格上有 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4653.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4658.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
4月3日大地震、核一場、核二場、核三場我們可以看到它的為主體底層地震一側得到最大加速的值分別是0.0281G、0.0338G、0.0125G為什麼講這個數字我們可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4674.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4695.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
目前這三座核電廠尤其是運轉中的這個核三廠我想要請教一下說我們依照剛剛那個數值我們看到地震以來我們好像都一直連自動停機的標準都還沒有達到那我們看到在運轉中的核三廠耐震度上來看我們來回頭檢討有沒有問題有沒有需要加強補強的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4697.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4722.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個主要還是要看當地的震度核三廠在04、03顯然它是影響是極小它主要還是在北部花蓮跟北部的部分那麼事實上在核一、核二那主任您剛剛說要看震度那是什麼樣的震度會有影響呀那個這一次的地震在核一、核二廠大概是0.02到0.03我想核一、核二 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4722.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4740.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
但是在核三它少了非常多事實上在我們的網頁都有公告這也就是為什麼核三其實在地震的當下它還是持續運行那麼但是核一核二廠也很lucky因為我們新北市其實是五弱 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4741.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4766.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
第五級的弱但是在當地我們測到的地震影響還是這樣我這樣聽您的回覆啊應該是說目前是沒有很大的影響嘛對不對好那現在其實我們有聽到有很多的民間團體啊他有的有一種說法他說因為台灣現在位處於地震帶所以他們認為啊就不應該來使用這個核電廠所以主委認同這樣的一個看法嗎那而且您剛剛有說到關於現在核三廠那陣度來看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4767.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4770.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
目前的這些制度看起來沒有太大的影響那您對於這樣民間團體的說法您怎麼看待? |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4774.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4796.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那個是這樣子這個是發生地震的地方的問題如果正央就是在北部那麼很顯然是有很大的風險這就是其實是正央跟當地的地址的問題所以這也就是剛才應該是洪孟楷委員在問我我跟他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4798.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4824.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
自然災害其實是一個風險那麼其實輔導不是啦 主委當然這個是有風險啦但也就是說您現在其實也沒有辦法去看說什麼樣的震度然後對這個核電廠會有一個傷害嘛我看目前沒有這樣的數字嘛所以本席很簡單的問您就是說如果我們僅僅就是因為台灣地主地震帶所以不應該使用核電這樣的一個看法您到底這個讚不讚同啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4825.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4842.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
要非常小心就是我們要謹慎小心謹慎小心接下來我想請教一下核安會的官網當中有一個動態的訊息其中有一個即時資訊那這個即時資訊不曉得主委有沒有看過有 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4843.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4864.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
有看過嗎那我看我發現其實在這一次即時資訊在地震之後那因為是即時資訊嘛我不太理解這個即時到底是多短的時間到即時那有大概十幾分鐘十三分鐘就把這個資訊就公佈出來但有的時候也到大概一個小時左右才能夠出來那我不理解為什麼這個落差會這麼大這是第一個第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4867.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4874.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
不曉得主委您剛剛說你有看到那我舉一個4月23號凌晨的時候我們看到凌晨0點09分我們發布了一個資訊上面寫說今天23號11點56分然後地震的這個資訊這個有沒有錯啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4885.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4912.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
主委這有沒有錯?這個應該是有錯錯在哪裡?極點錯的是嗎?所以你就是做一個未來的通報嘛那會有人就說哎呀這個是小事情欸主委這個不能說是小事情喔因為呢我們這個掌管核安吶我覺得任何一個這個資訊我們都是要嚴謹要正確何況這是一個即時資訊喔那我們的速度不一怎麼會叫即時啊有的要一個小時那速度還會有錯誤能不能說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4913.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4930.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們來檢視一下到底是哪個環節出了問題那為什麼有的是13分鐘就可以即時進出來有的要到一個多小時為什麼沒有標準我想這個可能是一個例外我們會來檢視一下到底是什麼地方出了問題再跟委員回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4930.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4957.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
好 主委我想真的要解釋一下既然是即時那能夠做到有的時候是13分鐘15分鐘那是不是應該要保持在一個水準之上那不是有的時候搞了一個多小時這還叫即時嗎好不好那接下來我想再請教一下主委剛剛提到這個燃料池水這個在這次地震當中有溢出可是呢我要請教一下我們燃料池水是不是有含放射性物質 有沒有是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4958.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4986.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
有嘛那所以燃料池水這個因為地震溢出這算不算一種異常這個我想這個算不算 是啊是嗎好那我們看到喔4月3號12點24分我們發布的即時資訊上面寫到說哎呀今天7點58分臺灣地區的有感地震各核電廠依程序執行現場巡視結果機組維持正常運作那我們持續監督安全好 沒有異狀喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4987.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5015.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
但是呢你的內文又怎麼講你的內文又說發現這個核一廠巡視的時候有兩部這個機用過燃料這個池水溢出啦然後這個溢出的這個量啦在1300跟這個2200公升啦那我們又看到在另外一則即時資訊也是講到說清華大學的水池式反應器的這個儲存廠沒有受到影響喔那我們會持續去監控可是事實上它的池水也是有溢出喔我希望啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5016.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5034.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們的即時資訊我剛剛本席講過了這第一個我們能夠快要快第二個資訊一定要正確第三個絕對不要粉飾太平如果像您剛剛所說的這個池水是有含放射性物質的而且它溢出也算是異常那為什麼我們在給民眾一開始的這個即時資訊上面是一種粉飾太平告訴大家這沒有任何關係為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5036.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5056.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那個核電廠人員要去檢視那麼它是會有一點點時間的落差所以一發生的時間的地震的當下主委如果有一點落差你就不應該用粉飾太平告訴大家什麼事都沒發生啊你是不是應該要給最正確的資訊求快也要求正確嘛所以這一點下次能不能再修正一下是的沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5057.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5082.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
好不好 這不必一定要修正 不可以有錯誤的資訊那最後 是本席在3月28號的時候有特別跟您提到我們現在日本福島第一核電廠排放了含氚廢水除了氚之外還有碳14跟碳129但是我們現在目前是沒有檢測能力那您也說 今年年底會完成碳14的檢測技術明年年底會完成碳129 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5083.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5087.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
為何完成檢測技術研發要花一年的時間?是非常困難還是人力上有問題?是有一定的難度當然需要這時間去克服但是現在有一個很大的問題以本席瞭解目前輻射監測中心負責研發碳14跟碟129的檢測技術人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5109.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5117.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
他同時除了這個研發之外他還要負責放射性物質的檢測的工作那現在全部的正式的人員只有10位 對嗎只有10位 對嗎報告委員碳14這一塊是有12位有12位 好你是不是還有加上外聘所以我剛剛指的是正式人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5135.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5151.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
對 有部分是計畫的人員好 我們不管今天你10位、12位、13位你知道這個人力其實是真的非常非常的少那您剛剛都說過了我們這些相關的研發這個檢測的這個技術其實是有它的困難度在這樣的人力夠嗎 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5155.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5169.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
目前是可以啦那麼我們會來檢視我會跟陳主任再討論一下如果有需要我們看看是不是有緣額因為公務人員的人力他其實是有一線的限制但是我們這樣專業人力該加就要加 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5171.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5195.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
主委 您們對於日本排放的含氚廢水都告訴國人我們的檢測結果都是符合或是低於這個標準的但是我們現在自己的檢測技術跟能量卻又沒有達到那樣的標準所以你們的任何的說法跟任何的檢測報告要怎麼取信於國人所以我想今天我們來談的就是該補充人力要補充該給正確的資訊要給正確那我們希望這個主委加油好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5199.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5203.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝萬美玲委員我們接下來請葛如君委員謝謝主席 有請陳東陽主委備詢好 有請陳主委好 葛委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5228.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5245.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
主委好,520即將到了您上任到現在大約七個月希望您一切都還愉快、很順利也謝謝在這個地震的過程當中持續關注我們的核電廠主委先前是在成功大學任教也來自台南說不定很有機會繼續留任主委您有沒有被徵詢留任沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5248.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5273.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
不管有還是沒有我想我們還是持續來關注核能的發展方向今天想跟主委也交流一下核能政策的幾個重要方向今年的1月底外交家Tipman雜誌有一篇文章提到台灣是已開發國家裡面能源最不安全的經濟體之一如果停用核能很難不損害國家安全利益與氣候目標其中甚至直接說到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5274.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5300.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
蔡政府用天然氣取代煤炭和核電的政策將使台灣的發電成本容易受到干擾除了天然氣價格波動幅度大要是對岸或其他人有意甚至可能透過海上封鎖的方式扼殺台灣最後甚至建議重啟核試並且讓現有的核電廠檢修後研議請教一下主委怎麼看待這篇報導的說法會不會覺得太危言聳聽啦報導中對我們核電廠相關的建議主委覺得可惜嗎?這個雜誌可信嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5303.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5321.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
不同媒體都會有不同的報導我們都持續關注也了解核安會其實是一個核能安全管制的獨立機關它其實是著重在技術這雜誌的說法到底可不可信有沒有委員聳聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5323.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5334.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我想我沒辦法評論個別的一個媒體的報告在這邊我跟你們分享一下這個雜誌這個媒體是民進黨愛用的媒體國際事務部主任趙怡翔吳趙燮之子吳迪這個之前的這個民進黨非常青睞的這個媒體外交家 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5344.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5346.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
在各國的媒體、各國的政策上面可以給台灣什麼樣的一些建議? |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5361.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5388.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
接下來我們來看這個才是外面的雜誌我們來講台灣郭志輝準經濟部長我們也非常期待近日也開始拜訪產業針對缺電的問題在一個典禮當中表示4月18號目前無法判斷需不需要核電廠研議若需要研議也希望取得全民認同換句話說核電廠研議並不是被排除的會是未來的一個選項想請教一下主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5389.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5404.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我們認不認同這樣的說法任何可能都是都有可能吶吼那麼我所以原意是有可能的嘛對不對都有可能不排除嘛不排除嘛對不對但是核安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5405.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5419.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
不會對特定的立場做特定的但核安會要不要針對研議做準備如果真的要研議的話當然就有技術要做準備嘛當然研議一下就需要兩三年啊我們現在有沒有做準備現在有沒有問問研議做準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5420.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5440.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我們有去檢視相關的法規這會不會太模糊了我們有去檢視相關的法規檢視那有報告嗎?有會議嗎?有記錄嗎?沒有記錄有上網嗎?沒有上網好沒關係我們先繼續看我們協作啦我們在立院我們都很希望協作讓台灣變得更好來跟主委報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5441.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5456.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
臨近日本東京最大的核電廠4月15日本月獲得原子能監督委員會核准將核燃料放入7號反應爐臨近韓國近年更是政策轉向從本來的去核電 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5457.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5466.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
因為AI、數據中心、電動車普及導致電力需求矩陣的情況之下核電廠運轉連線從40年左右延長到70到80年全球運轉的438部核電機組當中在近年獲得研議的比例高達59% |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5476.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5504.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
荷蘭則是積極進行核電廠的選址預計2025年要興建兩座我們回到台灣來看剛剛我們還是參考國外還有一些台灣的說法準經濟部長我們來看一下雙總統人員的這個活動環保團體代表就說我們2050要淨零減碳2030年要碳排減半距離2030年只有6年的時間現在這個數字還在持續上升我們到底碳排要怎麼降 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5505.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5506.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
如果政策是要研議那麼核安會當然要全力的配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5531.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5551.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那我跟主委分享,2025年5月份就已經要有這個時間就已經到了嘛那我們還要兩三年準備,你等他上任再來準備這不會太趕了嗎?來得及嗎?我們的店夠用嗎?我們評估就要兩三年的時間欸我不是說今天要研議,明天就研議成功啊,不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5553.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5565.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
台灣電力公司也必須去檢視目前目前去檢視目前的基礎的所有的安全的情況那台電如果不說要準備這邊就不用準備了是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5566.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5584.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
台電是主要的發動者他是從需求面那麼我們是被動來接受他不叫核電啊是你們叫核安啊他還有很多其他發電要管理啊而且他們有時候要上台下台的管機關是台電核電廠核一、核二、核三 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5586.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5610.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我想這個希望早一點來規劃早一點來做準備為什麼我們真的是要超前部署Sam Altman OpenAI的執行長曾經多次表示人工智慧如果沒有足夠的能源沒有辦法到達下一個階段我們應該全人類都要對核融合進行更多的投資所以他2021年的時候就投資了一個核融合新創公司Helium |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5611.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5625.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
接下來他們在2028年要興建一座50MW以上的發電量的合融合電廠預計可以供應5萬戶美國家庭一年的用電量連微軟都已經在預購了微軟都已經預購這個電力了我們在合融合這一塊有沒有努力我們有沒有發展我們真的是很好奇 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5632.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5653.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那在接下來呢其實我們也看到很多人的批評我先問一下我們核融呢現在有沒有投入投入多少計畫規模多少我們有國客會support的一個計畫是一個整合型計畫知道多少預算嗎大概3500萬吧3500萬要來保障我們未來在未來新形態能源的發展這樣足夠嗎可不可以給我們專業的評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5655.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5667.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這是一個early stage的study別人都已經2024年要完工第7代的核融合反應器了2028年要新建一個有50MW的核融合電廠微軟都在預購 這還是early stage嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5672.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5696.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
說我們是在early stage你們的思維是early stage沒有關係我們來協作我們看一下這個我們執政黨的好朋友甚至我也非常非常景仰他甚至一度傳出可能擔任行政院長合作董事長童子賢在去年接受財訊的採訪的時候也提醒最近最重要的項目就是核融核研究的新創公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5697.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5721.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
德和融合、德勝悲還在early stage嗎?這不是我講的喔!童董事長講的喔!我們繼續看,我今天講的全部都是專業的都是外部人士講的,有雜誌講的我們再來看,中研院院士李遠哲與日前參加臺大風險中心舉辦的近鄰青年沙龍說由於台灣過去15年的溫室氣體只增無減 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5725.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5739.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
除非2030年氣體排放量可降低一半否則政府無法在2050達成淨零為什麼我們要在這裡講這個問題是因為CODE28之後核能已經被確認為零碳排的能源同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5740.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5766.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
他說如果我們沒有辦法達成的話目前的政策都是騙人的這是別人講的院士講的所以真的是拜託啦拜託核安會該修法的要盡快啟動修法討論我們已經看到很多國外的外管都在關注了不只關注台灣各國也都在要嘛評估研議要嘛興建新的核電廠要嘛投資核融核我們投資核融3500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5768.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5785.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這一棟台北的房子都買不起我們要投資核融合啦該評估的提前評估積極為核電廠的重啟一宣準備而且關於核能的新科技拜託建議採取更積極的態度新科技每年都在變五年前我們是early stage覺得可以等 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5786.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5808.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
兩年前絕對可以再看看拜託今年我們又有AI內閣active innovative好不好我們非常的期待那不管您是否留任我們希望有一個非常非常好的典範留下來希望真的是要換一個做法相關的核融核第7代核融核反應器要完工我們剛剛提到了全球最大的企業之一微軟也簽署了2028年的核融核購電協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5813.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5835.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
希望委員會這邊可以再更積極好不好給我們更專業的一些建議給我們更新的做法更主動積極active innovative沒有問題但是我跟委員澄清一下我剛才講early stage是我們3500萬那個計畫那總規模多少不好意思主席我再用一點時間因為很善意的交流嘛對對對其實它就是總規模多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5837.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5859.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
總規模就是3千5百萬有五個計畫包含國研院、成大、清華所以你不是說它是有一個full stage然後這是其中一個stage3千5百萬沒有它就是early stage的3千5百萬那我們未來有沒有預期投入它有四年計畫現在是四年第一年3千5百萬對對對那後面呢後面還會有在編有在編了嗎對對對那預計多少什麼時候會知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5867.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5869.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
規劃第二期要研究一個托克瑪的將來會跟國科會申請大概一億左右的經費一億至二億就要看國家的預算能夠賀給我們多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5887.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5905.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好,我們教育委員會也會非常關注國科會還有相關的科技研發核能安全也是我們非常關注的能源也是我們非常關注的那也謝謝這個主委來這邊來跟我們進行一個非常良善的對話也謝謝主席,不好意思那感謝好,謝謝好,謝謝葛如君委員陳主委請回我們接下來請郭育晴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5919.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5920.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5929.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5947.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
國衛委員早國衛委員早安辛苦了我想昨天地震的部分我相信其實大家也都明顯的感受到了雖然這個應該也算是在4月3號的大地震之後的一個餘震但也有人說這個地震將來還是餘震會持續將近 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5951.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5976.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
在花蓮的部分可能會持續一年所以其實大家對於地震因為沒辦法臺灣就是位於這個兩個大的板塊包含我們的歐亞板塊菲律賓板塊之間所以這個地震會變成是一個常態那當然其實核能的安全跟地震也息息的相關那這個部分我不曉得就是就主委的看法這一次的地震一直到現在為止我們在河岸的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5977.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6000.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
在安全的部分做到什麼樣的一個地步那個0403地震我們其實啟動了一連串的危機處理那麼還好非常幸運我們的有些的損害或者是有些的意外其實是非常局部非常小我剛才有提到就是說燃料池的水溢出大概3500升 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6004.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6024.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
其他事還好當然這個很大的地震7.2級我們有去稍微檢視怎麼說我們對核電廠是相對安全後來我們看了就是在當地在石門在萬里相對的震度其實是相對相對的低它大概是2% |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6026.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6050.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
到3%的重力加速度所以它其實在那個地方是相對的低所以我們一般民眾看到在新北市它是侮弱但是在局部地區還是有不同的變化那麼我想在某一定程度上也是我們是得天獨厚很幸運這一次沒有發生什麼樣的意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6050.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6075.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
是,我想其實不管是0403的這個大地震跟這兩天其實最大的震度是規模6.3那不要講別的我們家其實在四樓光是裝水餵貓的水其實晚上晃一晃隔天也會溢出來我想這是屬於比較正常大家都可以接受的一個範圍啦包含所謂清華大學的那個反應池的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6075.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6098.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我相信也是那在這裡當然還是要給我們的這個核安會這邊有一些鼓勵正面的鼓勵吧因為我上去看了之後發現你們的即時的資訊更新是非常快速的那當然這個部分其實也讓很多的民眾能夠在第一時間可以掌握到這個最新的一些資訊那我想這個核能安全我們繼續一起就是繼續的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6101.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6119.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那這次的大地震其實台灣也很迅速的在全世界其實都讚嘆就是說我們沒有斷電那當然其實也說很快的能夠迅速的恢復到正常的生活那雖然部分的有心人士可能會曲解用很簡單的兩個字叫缺電或者是我們的一些所謂的這個能源政策錯誤來曲解這樣子的一個意義但是殊不知其實在前線我們很多的第一線的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6130.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6142.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
工作人員其實真的很辛苦接下來我想問一下就是其實我們的核能安全的跟公眾的部分就是在我們的新媒體的一個宣傳的一個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6144.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6162.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這個部分真的我就是要稍微講一下啦我看到我們的這個粉專我們的粉專大概是4.1萬的粉絲有26個管理員但是在我們看到的這個每一篇的文章這個按讚數最多最多好像大概就是30幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6164.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6190.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那這個部分是不是在我們這個就是讓我們民眾也知道我們的核能安全到底做到什麼樣的一個地步這個部分會不會覺得自己宣傳不夠然後在左邊的YT更是我們雖然有拍了一些影片之前也跟這個藝人來合作郭彥均還是郭彥甫對不對之前有跟他合作但是這個觀看人次最多最多好像就是三十幾位 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6190.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6218.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
您那時候應該找我的同樣姓郭那時候我還不是立委你還可以找我那會不會可能效果更好這個部分我們跟一般的新媒體的傳播的策略是不是有一點點落差所以其實很多人也許知道這個是很專業的一個部門但是其實攸關我們每一個人的核能安全的一個認知這個部分我們有沒有要做什麼樣的一個修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6219.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6245.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那個跟國委員報告那這個部分我們有注意到有很大的改進的空間那麼我們最近在做新的網頁我想大概最多在一個月就會上線你會看到很大很大的改變那麼影片的這個部分我也非常不滿意因為很多都是沿襲過去放在那個地方然後沒有拿下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6246.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6268.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
有些就是慢性病就是要改這要改這要改對就是有需要一些時間那我想這個部分我們會再來努力那看也請委員給我們指導一下我想這個看看有什麼樣的想法來讓這個公眾來了解我們這個可以做得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6270.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6295.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
接下來我想要問就僅有的一個時間就是2010年起其實我們大會都用個別觀察員的一個身份那尤其是這一次其實在這個IAEA我們特別也赴日去做了這樣子的一個考察那這個部分其實我們也到了他們的福島的第一核電廠去稍微看了一下關於他們的這個核廢水的排放的一個狀況那目前其實我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6296.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6324.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
核安會這邊掌握到的他們的排放廢水的一個狀況是什麼樣的一個進度我們是隨時掌握啦我剛才有報告過第一個就是我們跟這個日本NRA從2014年就有一個合作備忘錄所以定期都有合作資訊的交流那第二個呢是我們有派駐在台灣駐日代表處 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6324.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6336.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
有一個專門的人員全職的所以他提供給我們第一次的訊息剛才Beson那個備忘錄我們跟他們視訊會議有大達21次我們去實地拜訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6340.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6362.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
觀察團有4次跨部會的我想在座的很多部會包含海委會、農業部都有參與那麼我們今年海會再去拜訪應該是6月是好那當然這個是我們互相交流的一個部分最重要的還是要具體的掌握所謂的他們的這個廢水排放的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6363.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6392.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
包含臺灣附近的一些洋流變化當然核廢水對臺灣的影響我們每一個人都非常關心從112年8月24日日本開始排放所謂的寒川的廢水到現在為止我們知道我們自己本身的核安會我們都有一些即時上的更新這個必須真的要稱讚一下包含在昨天我們看到一周擴散的預報概況本來在中午的時候還沒更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6392.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6418.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我們就說好明天我就要來定這一題但後來下午就更新了那這個部分還是要讚美一下那當然其實在整個所有的一個監測其實民眾關心的這個部分那另外其實在我們的國際監測的一個資訊即時看還有一個跨部會的這個輻射監測整合儀表板那這個部分其實只到4月14號那目前為止還沒有更新大概什麼時候會更新呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6420.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6420.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6453.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6453.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6460.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6483.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
主委早安主委這邊請教您您在業務報告的時候曾經答覆說如果國內的核電廠要研議在安全專業上是不是可行呢要視個別的電廠的運轉情況而定那我相信主委跟本席一樣也認為說安全是最重要的這邊請教主委就算修法已經除役的核電廠可以再研議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6487.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6505.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
如果修法要通過主委你認為說有哪些核電廠的機組有可能申請研議應該是核三那核二稍微再進一步難度是比較簡單是核三核二是相對的比較稍微難一點大概是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6506.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6526.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我們現行的法令規定核電廠在執照到期前多久如果要申請研議的話要提出五年五年喔那如果有黨團或委員想要提出修法這個五年的這個期限這個時間呢對我們現在已經在運轉的機組就是說將來他面臨到廚藝的問題那他現在提修法會是來得及的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6528.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6548.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
來不及喔我們國內有企業指出就是主張說以黃金比例來配置能源的話核能可以是綠能的盟友而非敵人但是如果只以現在的核酸來研議的話主委您覺得說能夠做到所謂的黃金配置的黃金能源配置的比例嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6549.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6563.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我們核三廠就是6%這所有的能源大概就是佔所有我們臺灣能源的6%左右那麼就是說它還是有一定的限度 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6564.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6591.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
主委您以您的專業來看其實我們國內跟各國一樣對於再生能源的發展能源轉型我們都一直都非常在努力就是希望來抵消這些碳排因為我們有一個目標是2050年進行排放那如果說我們以這樣子剛剛講的再生能源的發展來能源轉型的部分還有說一些比較難以抵消的部分我們還用復炭技術以及這個自然碳匯的方式來抵那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6591.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6596.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
不用核能,主管您覺得2050年的淨零排放真的是無法達成嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6598.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6621.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這個部分也要看新科技未來發展的速度比如說氫能比如說地熱那這樣說主委您來看如果說以我們現在以再生能源發展的這樣的技術一直在精進那是不是有這樣的機會在2050年進行台放達成這個目標裡面我們是排除核能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6623.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6638.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我想也不能完全排除按照目前的技術未來總是有很多的可能所以您覺得這也是樂觀的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6640.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6655.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
是有這個可能其實為什麼提到這個部分呢因為其實這段時間的地震讓我們台灣的民眾都心理壓力非常的大常常睡覺都睡不安穩那以我們台灣整個地層的結構其實發展可能需要非常非常的謹慎我想主委您同意非常同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6658.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6665.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那我們今天的主題今天是關於我們含氚廢水的排放那過去我們都會聚焦在福島核電廠這個含氚廢水的排放但是日本的媒體近日有解出中國2023年版的《核能年鑒》有揭露2022年中國核電廠排放的水裡面含輻射物質穿的數量跟福島電廠排放的含氚廢水上限來比那超標是高達9倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6688.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6690.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
甚至說中國浙江的泰山核電廠2022年排出的含氚量是202兆貝克相對於福島核電廠來講高了9.1倍。這個排放水含氚的量以核安會的專業來看對周邊的國家跟海域是安全的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6710.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6728.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
目前檢測因為目前我們有一些海測點107點目前大概都是安全的那麼剛才委員提到的問題我想我們後續會再來研議一下就是說看看有沒有辦法再更進一步的有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6728.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6733.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
其實以核電廠的運轉其實排放水裡面都會有這樣的物質但是我們經過層層的過濾呢這樣輻射物質降到最低才排放出來但因為氚這個物質本來它比較不好排除所以它會變成是一個指標檢驗排放水裡面的氚來看這樣子的這樣的水排放出來是不是對周邊的海域周邊的物質會有一些危害那如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6754.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6761.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
的核電廠的排放水裡面這些含氚的這個量是必然的那以我國周邊的國家的核電廠來排放情況包括含輻射量的質量、整體排放量是不是核安會我們對這個部分的訊息的揭露給民眾相關的情況一定要讓民眾有正確的認知所以說我們在我們的核安會的監測的入口網的資訊是不是應該調整而不是說只以日本的排放 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6784.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6800.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這個為主是不是應該要揭露周邊國家排放的這個狀況而且要及時的做這個示警來降低民眾的疑慮以及恐慌不是只有針對日本的排放主委您覺得呢我完全同意所以這個希望可以做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6802.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6825.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
對 來做調整讓民眾去了解說有這樣的訊息而且我們要做正確的這樣的訊息的布達讓他們了解說不用過度的焦慮那在4月20的報導裡面有指出福島核廢水的儲罐出現腐蝕那即使說東電他說是沒問題的那我們核安衛有沒有針對這個腐蝕的狀況來做進一步的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6826.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6841.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
是的,我們有在注意到這個新聞那麼後續有在看這個東電這個公司相關的網頁那麼也會持續的來關注後續他的情況那特別是安全的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6842.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6846.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
因為我們不是IAEA的成員所以說我們很多的訊息可能對我們國際上一些原子能的狀況沒有辦法馬上有第一手的消息但是我們沒有辦法有第一手的消息之後我們如果知道有這樣的就是說我們輾轉的不是輾轉可能第二手知道這樣的訊息之後我們也必須要趕快去了解事實的整個的實際的情況是如何我們才能夠來決定如何因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6869.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6882.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我強調這個部分是說其實我們一般的民眾就是這樣比較高度的一些專業的一些訊息他們不了解那不了解就會覺得恐慌就會焦慮所以核安會這邊應該針對說我們新聞還有一些比較時效性的這樣的訊息我們要加快我們回應的速度來減低民眾的疑慮跟他們的焦慮那再下來我這邊要請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6893.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6895.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
針對烏克蘭的紮婆羅勒核電廠附近近期遭受無人機攻擊國際能源總署也已經示警甚至表示這是一條極度危險戰線的開端 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6909.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6924.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那過去呢本席也詢問過很多次就是我國周邊的核電廠如果說有發生事故而有輻射外溢的這個狀況呢這樣對我國跟周邊的國家都是災難那所以今天這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6925.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6926.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
是的,我們每年定期 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6955.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6983.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我們今年會做河岸30號演習那麼剛才委員提到的烏俄戰爭那麼最大的影響即時的應該是歐洲大陸那麼葛羅希那個他的這個訪問其實我看了這個相關的這個video那麼其實是全世界很關切因為這個不僅是俄羅斯跟烏克蘭的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6984.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6984.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
規劃是說萬一有這樣的情勢發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7001.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7021.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7022.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7038.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我們會裡面的網頁是有完全這樣的訊息但是我在這裡很快的跟委員報告就是第一時間一般來講是沒有需要緊急的避難不需要你只要在房子裡面就好了那麼我們國家會針對環境的輻射 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7042.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7061.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們針對食用水、針對食品去做一些檢測那暫時無需恐慌對,這個就是需要給民眾的一些教育跟宣導那最後本席這邊要強調核能安全是我們最高的原則希望核安會這邊你們可以善盡你們職責堅守你們職責來守護台灣、守護我們的國民謝謝,謝謝主委謝謝陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7067.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7076.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
好 謝謝陳秀寶委員主席在這邊宣告一下主委請回在羅廷偉委員諮詢完後我們休息五分鐘接下來請李錦昭委諮詢謝謝 謝謝主席有請陳主委還有漁業署陳副署長漁業署陳副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7101.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7116.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
本席上次質詢有關中國核電廠氚廢水排放案例的延期我首先要肯定核安會在第一時間迅速有給出回覆也表示會更提前來完成計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7119.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7139.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
不過排放到這個大海的放射性的廢水造成的影響其實是難以預估化學物質除了它隨著洋流會流到各處然後也還可能在海洋生物攝取之後因為生物累積效應的關係會使得食物鏈這個頂端者體內累積到更多的這個影響這個健康的物質 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7145.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7151.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那所以我們這次要本席特別關心的就是說在台灣遠洋漁業所捕撈的漁種當中放射性物質的生物檢測的狀況那從漁業署的這個官方網站可以看到目前的反台太平洋漁獲輻射抽檢檢驗結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7168.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7194.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
涉137等敗衰期較長的元素都是符合規定的情形不過我想就叫核安會還有農業部就是說國人常吃的這些遠洋的魚類那他們抽驗的情形也是合格的嗎還是說根據剛剛所謂的生物累積效應那漁民所捕獲的這種大型的魚種那目前檢驗的狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7196.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7214.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
跟昭緯報告到目前為止我們做這些漁獲的檢測都是安全的那麼我們輻射偵測中心是第一線實驗室在做量測那麼我們這些漁獲大概就是水勢所、漁業署他們提供這些樣本 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7223.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7244.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
好,所以是漁業署要補充說明還是?嗯,很好,漁業署這邊補充說明,事實上從剛才報告的部分我們在抽驗的部分事實上就包括所謂的沿濟海的部分還有您關心的包括秋刀魚等漁場的這些所謂的遠洋經濟性的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7244.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7260.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
您剛才關心的部分是包括我們在太平洋這邊所比較大型的就叫尾旗沙的部分其實都有一些的規劃以113年剛才已經也跟委員報告還有我們會員報告的部分就是我們在沿近海的這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7261.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7289.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
總共抽了3000件那對於所謂的遠洋的部分我們抽了240件那這裡面就包括秋刀魚的部分還有就是所謂的尾鰭沙的部分那秋刀魚的部分是規劃了100就是射所謂的90件還有就是那個穿的部分90件還有尾鰭沙的部分各30件就是60件的部分總共240件到目前為止因為還沒有進入產季就是秋刀魚的部分是在下半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7290.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7306.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
的部分目前的部分呢遠洋的緯淇沙的部分已經抽了四件那那個秋刀魚是之前回國的部分現在不是川的部分也抽了兩件那目前的部分的情形就是都是OK的小魚的以上好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7308.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7325.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
就下一個主題想跟主委討論就是本週六4月7反核佔領行動10週年這個有請這個訴求就在昨天相關的團體又有再一次召開記者會他堅定反對修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7325.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7335.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
讓老舊核電廠研議因為還有許多欠缺考量的地方那本席也有跟主委有提到就是老舊核電廠研議有龐大的經濟跟所謂的環境成本同時主委也認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7341.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7359.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
左手處理這個核廢料是目前我們積極要面對的課題那上一次核安會來報告的時候許多委員都有問到說這個燃料核燃料乾式主存槽的進度那根據我們辦公室的了解台電公司跟新北市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7359.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7378.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
已經在今年4月1日完成行政調解那肯定依照行政調解結果要4月16日提出核一廠用過核燃料中期儲存計畫的水土保持計畫也就是第二次邊跟設計的文件要送交新北市政府來審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7379.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7396.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那目前這個進度我們看起來核廢料的處理仍是未解跟棘手的問題那所以很多委員提案修法說讓老舊的核電廠來研議我覺得這是相當欠缺思考的做法那還有就是說讓核電廠繼續運作本來就是有違台灣持續進行的能源政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7403.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7419.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那修管制辦法開放這個研議可能總不可能讓當前已經廚藝或者正在廚藝中準備廚藝中的核電廠在冒著風險繼續運作所以也絕不可能再找新的地方來興建新的核電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7420.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7433.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那所以部分委員提的這個核子反應設施研議的修法顯然是忽視了核一、核二已經進入了主義階段那核三也提出核主義的這個計畫的現況那主委你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7437.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7451.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這樣子 國民黨這樣的提案是不是非常的沒有辦法的執行跟 如果這樣的提案是不是國民黨那他要再怎麼拿哪些執政縣市去蓋核電廠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7454.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7480.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這個的確是比較困難的議題那麼我想核安會是獨立的安全管制機關那對特定的擁核緩和我想我們不做具體的應該秉持比較公正的方法因為我們畢竟是技術本位可是我們是就核安就核安這個點上面來看研議的狀況那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7482.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7504.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
對我舊核案來看您也說過確實是有很多難題的確都是有很多難題那不然就不會現在有這麼多的討論跟提議那麼這個還需要一些我想社會上大多數人的認同或者是共識還有再一些努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7506.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7531.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
此遊行預計要復刻2014年佔領行動在現場播放核災警報邀請很多民眾躺在中山南路上表達反核電研議的訴求過去我們持續進行核電廠周遭地區和核安演習然而我想台灣一座那麼小小的島嶼全國都是命運共同體 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7532.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7556.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以是不是也必須要全國人民有基本的核災應對的意識那如何能做到那當然我們都不希望看到任何的災難來發生但基本的概念一定還是要深植人民的心中那加上最近地震頻傳所以核災警報若跟很多則的地震警報混雜在一起那人民如何應對所以主委這點你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7558.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7577.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
這個在我們官網跟這個APP核安一點通大概都有可以點來聽聽看那麼核災的部分我想主要是核電廠周邊的區塊的居民這是優先這是優先這也就是我們的APP它其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7579.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7598.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
推廣的率其實是相對的侷限因為主要的新北市、石門、萬里、恆春我們還會繼續努力這一塊但是現在在我們的網頁上其實你可以點來聽聽看 沒有問題所以兩者是有很大的差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7602.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7620.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
核安會書面報告中有提到境外核災是最有可能影響台灣的輻射程不過我想全國人民對於境外核災的即時應對的意識是否充足核安會是否有盡到全民核災的防災教育這一點也請主委要特別的關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7622.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7635.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
想要請教主委最後一個問題就是說我們最有可能影響台灣的境外輻射程核安會怎麼如何向人民宣達這個防災的概念那什麼時候可以有效於落實這方面的全國的教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7637.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7662.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這個部分當然我們都持續的關切一個是日本一個是中國大陸那麼這個部分我剛才也跟其他委員報告我們每年都有定期的防災的演練今年是河安30號那麼在河一場那去年是河二場在河安29號那麼我們動員多少人呢?超過1萬人去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7663.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7664.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
主委辛苦,謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7689.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7698.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我們再來請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在我們再來請羅廷偉委員好 謝謝主席 有請陳主委有請陳主委羅委員好好 主委你好主委最近地震頻傳喔我們的核能還好嗎目前還好 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7719.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7731.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
目前有沒有任何的災損或者是內部需要報休損傷我們0403地震合一場合二場有燃料池的水溢出總共加起來大概3600升 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7733.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7737.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
日本經濟新聞要準總統賴清德重新評估核電政策主委有沒有什麼回應? |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7764.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7791.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我想國際媒體或者是國內媒體都有不同的一些評論那麼我們都可以聽到不同多元的聲音那麼核安會其實持續都在關注所有各種不同的聲音但是我也跟委員報告核安會是核能安全的管制的獨立機關他不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7795.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7817.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
主管機關是經濟部的一個業務啦那當然我要講的是在核安會第四次赴日時日方問台方台灣現在有三座核電廠是否有新的核電廠的一個規劃台方的回答非核家園是台灣的能源政策台灣對此立場並未改變因此沒有新的核電廠的一個規劃在日方當下就敢回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7817.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7846.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
回到國內我現在問你你就說不敢回答而且甚至就跟我講說是經濟部的一個業務那我想我們就直接回應嘛非核家園就是台灣最重要的一個能源政策這是目前執政黨最堅定不移的一個能源政策的一個方向但是我想問題一我們在這個本次報告所稱到含氚的一個廢水現在就是核能安全委員會112年12月25日參加第九屆台日核能管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7847.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7871.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
資訊交流會議及參訪核能設施出國報告內所稱的ALPS的處理水對嗎?好請問福島縣沿岸海域的海水ALPS的處理水排放前後設137活度穿活度變動範圍各為多少?最高濃度值為多少?較前次排放有無略高? |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7875.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7875.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
請同仁回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7903.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7915.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
的一個全球的一個背景來略高那但是那日本都有在做監控我們也持續關注叫全球的背景略高啦吼那有沒有比上一次排放有略升高有掌握嗎目前整個大數據來看是都還都在一定的範圍以內 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7924.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7945.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好一定的範圍內我覺得你回答的有點模糊讓我不能夠分析你到底回答的內容齁我覺得這個部分資料你是不是可以再讓我們更確切的知道一下我想我們應該掌握是有沒有更高而不是在範圍內我就聽不懂到底我要不要跟我們的民眾來做好這個相關的防範我們到底要不要吃海鮮這些問題我要去做評估阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7946.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7971.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
所以這個制度裡面的數值你可能要提供會後資料給我了解一下但是主委對於含氚廢水我們現在是111年開始台灣總共4度派員赴日調查我們請問這4次的赴日報告你都有看過嗎最近一次因為我那時候上任已經上任了最近一次去年的10月底到11月的初 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7973.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7999.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
好 那我們就這四次的報告我們來就請教主委第四次的報告我跟樓委員報告是第四次有看因為那時候我在上面好 沒關係沒關係那我們就第四次的問題來跟您詢問一下主委 上次你是不是還記得我3月28 原能會的對不起 我們核能會的業務報告我依第三次赴日報告內容詢問我們的教養的大型分析研究中心是否拿到ISO認證的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8000.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8029.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那時候核安會跟其他同仁代表跟主委回覆要再確認主委確認到現在快一個月連一個通知都沒有都不用通知我都不用跟我講核安會是真的螺絲鬆了還是來的次數教委會的次數太少了完全沒在甩教育文化委員會有點誤會那個抱歉那個我們當天就確認他已經拿到ISO當天就確認那這個部分我們如果有一些疏忽 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8029.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8030.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
請勿模仿 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8047.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8075.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
四次的赴日查證報告第三十頁主委你自己也可以看到我們提出了三個問題我方提出第三方的獨立採樣取樣性、代表性以及日方已經回歸他有回覆依規定只能夠由設施經營者取樣以大雄分析中心他不能夠取樣那我方也做一個東電公司以及佳雅的分析結果是否出現不一致日方答覆有關數據第三方 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8076.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8099.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
只求準確性是否不一致並非第三方要注意的我方這個部分還做一個大雄分析實驗中心實驗室辦理認證進度然後日方那當時也回覆ISO正在進行中這個我已經有得到你剛剛的一個回應了那我想我們現在要跟你詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8101.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8111.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
如果第四次還在說要設ISO那為什麼你剛剛還跟我講說已經取得了這個相關的認證?你的報告裡面這樣寫的啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8116.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8139.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
報告委員這個報告是我們出國以後去年10月出國以後的一個撰寫的所以在11月的時候的一個撰寫那現在都是在3月的時候我們就有確定了他們已經取得了ISO的一個認證所以我覺得追蹤問題是不是應該是你最重要的一個進度尤其11月你就在問到3月我問你的時候你才準備再去問他 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8140.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8168.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那12月、1月、2月這個不用去追問他我覺得這部分是螺絲有點鬆了那第一題跟第二題我剛剛有問的嘛主委大雄分析中心現在是較早設置在福島的一個部門位於福島第一核電廠主要進行福島第一核電廠放射性廢棄物與燃料碎片的分析研究並為經產省指定之LPS處理水監測第三面驗證單位本席就想請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8169.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8192.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
既然大雄分析研究中心是經過審定指定為ALPS處理水監測第三方的一個驗證單位但是對於取樣的部分日方回應依規定僅能由設施經營者來取樣教養分析中心是不能夠去取樣的那只能受政府委託分析但可 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8193.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8209.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
共同見證取樣而取樣的代表性由東電公司負責諸位可見第三方的具有獨立取樣及取樣代表性都沒有請問哪需要設立第三方檢測單位這樣做第三方的檢測單位意義何在 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8211.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8227.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我想取樣的單位就像我們這個國家海域計畫取樣的單位跟我們實驗檢測的單位其實它是分開的對 是分開的但是我們現在就擔心嘛它取的樣並不是我們最直接最想要去了解的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8228.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8243.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
他這個各個部門有一些分工比如說我們海水進口失誤、抽檢我們在國內也是不同的部會在做負責但是他的這些樣品 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8244.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8273.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
他其實不會去講什麼樣的具體的內容但是呢他送到我們實驗室來大概就是一個編號那我們實驗室做一些檢測那麼結果呢我們再送回原來送樣的單位那麼由他們來公布那麼我們整合性的儀表板其實就是我們把會診各部會的所有的資訊放在那邊所以你可以一次就看到所有的資訊跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8274.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8299.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好那再者我想我PPT2我看一下我們大雄分析的研究中心去年已參與JCAC辦理的實驗室間的比對活動未來也考慮參與IAEA辦理的實驗室間比對請主委顯然那個大雄分析研究中心並未符合IR以及NRA審查標準主委你有沒有什麼答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8300.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8316.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我們這個比對就是實驗室之間他實驗的精確度他通常是要跟別的單位去做一些比較同樣的試體同樣的試片那做一些比較那麼我們也藉此來 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8318.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8332.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
確認或者是有信心來了解我們目前的實驗的步驟或者是準確性的相關的認知那麼我們輻射偵測中心其實也有做相關的事情那麼所以我們其實是有經過這個認證的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8335.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8351.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那在報告的第16頁我方有提問日方也曾邀請IAEA的環境放射性分析實驗室IOMO的成員參與檢視海水分析的一個作業不知我國的實驗室是否也有機會參與類似的一個活動與實驗室之間分析比對有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8353.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8367.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們跟日本的分析中心有一個合作應該是有比對實驗就是我們的輻射偵測中心所以跟日本其實是有一些的連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8369.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8382.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我希望我們所有這些不管是實驗室的一些派員去了解我們都希望能夠更整密目的就是希望實驗室所做出的任何報告都能夠有助於我們做相關的一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8383.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8412.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
做相關的政策因應畢竟這樣子的一個排放水對我們大家來說都是前所未見我們也希望在這個部分上我們可以看到有更緊密更謹慎的一個相關評估那排放了30年才放完誰敢保證30年間都沒有問題日本於本月19日中午開始執行第5批次LOP處理水海洋排放水作業預計排放19天那我想這個組成專家去做安全的一個審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8412.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8434.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我想我國的一個作為目前有什麼可以取得多少相關資訊這個部分我們持續關注跟東京電力那剛才我跟委員報告我們在駐日的代表處我們核安會有一個專任的人員派駐在那個地方所以我們會第一手拿到相關的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8436.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8463.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
好我想這樣子最後30年的排放剛剛才開始他的生態後果、經濟後果、政治後果值得關注我還是要提醒注意三點應要求日方同意台灣及其他所有利益國長期時間可以去做定期取得這個距離排放口較近的一個區域進行海水取樣並吸回分析然後除確保穿輻射 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8464.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8489.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
符合其限制裡面 驗證的一個各種活度是否正常也可以確認LPS的入渠效果能夠是否就衰減因素第二個時間即便現在沒有問題連排30年持續的嚴密的監督畢竟這是前所未有的一個大規模排放這是我剛剛有提到可能現在的技術手段和科技水平並無法 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8489.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8516.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
更準確的推斷或者是未知之數我們都是用最整密、最嚴格的標準去看待這件事情那不應該聚焦在氚的一個危害即便有數據說明氚對人體無害比較令人擔心的是和原先核廢水相比氚還有數十種放射性的物質例如其他點、色很有可能在淨化過程中未備百分百我們更希望在這個部分能夠有 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8517.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8522.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
更大幅度的一個關注這部分也麻煩何安慧 可以嗎好 沒有問題好 謝謝好 謝謝羅廷文委員那我們再來休息五分鐘齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8863.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8863.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
主席陳珠瑋 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8885.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8885.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8919.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8935.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
水勢所的船今年上半年它有一些故障另外就是有些時候是海象的問題天氣氣候的問題那麼我跟委員說明其實我們最近做了一些很大的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8936.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8950.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
二、我去拜訪國科會主委那他下面的法人是海洋中心那麼他有這個海洋船利靜號那麼我們將來因為利靜號是做學校老師科研人員的這個科學檢測那麼我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8954.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8981.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
大概輻射偵測中心會有人去陪同去取海水所以會不定期的增加評次跟點位所以會把原來107點以外還會根據他們不同的船的行程再去補足一些的點所以這大概是什麼時候會開始啟動我想很快6月就會開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8982.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8987.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
6月就開始所以我們接下來下次等我6月之後再去看到的時候這些應該都會有一些更新都是應該是更新了對嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8989.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8990.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
核安會113年總預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9014.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9015.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9032.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9060.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
現在的公務人力會欲缺不補日後都會是需求改用這個願聘人力所以呢這個核安會的人事費補助就僅限於這些公務人力那之後改為願聘人員之後是不是這些所有的願聘人員的人事費都是由國務院院來自籌也就是說核安會過去補助給國務院院的人事費用會逐年的來遞減到最後一位公務人員退休就會歸零了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9062.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9081.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這個是這樣子國研院現在是行政法人那麼跟財團法人是有相似的性質但是原來國研院是核菸索他們全部都是公務人員所以目前除了公務人員有相當大的量應該大概是7比3 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9082.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9102.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
其實主委這一題我只想要確認一下就是說我們接下來因為剛剛講了嘛就是說因為行政人、行政法人嘛說他開始自籌嘛所以過去我們補助的這些人士費用隨著公務人員退場之後我們應該就不會再去補助了是嗎是的但是我跟委員報告就是部會跟法人通常的關係會藉由計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9104.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9120.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那麼人員的薪水有一些是在計劃裡面付的所以他可以編多少人力這就是計劃人力的部分而已嘛 對不對而且計劃人力他有不同的rank不同的職稱他可以很高的他也可以是一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9121.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9150.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
了解我懂那其實這一題我主要是想要接續的來問就是說因為我們必須要自籌了可是我也看到說我們國研院自籌經費卻是逐年在下降的105年的時候還有10.5億那到112年只剩下7.4億所以就變成說接下來國研院可能要自籌10億唷他才有辦法去支付他現在的一個人事支出所以我想要了解我們自籌款到底是為什麼下降了那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9150.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9177.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
如果它真的持續下降那核安會真的有辦法逐年減少這些人事的補助嗎?那個我先答一下這個逐年下降是有人離開離職大部分是退休所以它是漸進式的它不會是一下子全部變沒用委員聽得懂我意思嗎?所以這個人事費它會逐年的遞減 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9179.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9200.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
對我知道但是我們現在講的是自籌的部分嘛因為我們需要有自籌能力啊因為現在夏林可能就不會再補助他這些公務人力了嘛所以就是你現在自籌人力是逐年下降的啊那這個原因是什麼報告委員那個因為我們原來從核能就核電相關的計畫得到比較多的計畫就是比對於105年開始那因為電廠也逐漸這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9205.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9226.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
停止運轉所以我們一些相關的委託計畫也跟著萎縮所以萎縮了大概兩成到三成所以到目前這幾年都維持大概7億那這樣就會有個問題接下來我們還是會努力就是想辦法再去找其他像新能源或者其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9227.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9228.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
核能安全委員會主管預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9257.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9275.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
對國研院其實還不夠熟悉我不太知道你們平常研究出什麼樣子的成果所以我就去看了一下我們現在著作數量我們的數量其實是持續在下降70%的關於研究都是院內報告可是我查了你們的網站也沒有看到院內報告的查詢系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9277.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9291.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那我們現在呢大概是有500位的一個研究人力可是每年發表的大概就是國內外的期刊、會議論文、海報等等的數量卻還是逐年下降的你可以看到這張我們做這個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9292.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9322.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
所以就是說第一個發表量減少那為什麼都是院內報告院內報告是可以公開給大家來瞭解和國研院的嗎那或者是說為什麼這五年呢我們對於這些國際的論文也還是在持續減少的那甚至是說我們的國內院內的發表系統扣除掉機密文件之後是不是都可以讓大家來去公開參閱這樣子我覺得才可以讓大家更瞭解國研院啦那這樣子對我們在自籌經費才會有幫助那是不是可以請院長來回覆一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9323.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9336.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
報告委員,我們的院內報告有些是跟一些單位像國內最大的半導體公司委託我們做一些實驗那這個都是機敏性要簽保密協定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9337.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9362.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
但是這樣子是佔很大的數量嗎?佔一部分的數量部分的約內報告如果說大概有七成左右是一般的報告但是因為放在網路上因為約內的報告就是我們希望這個約內的報告希望能夠透過再整合的方式再公佈在外面不然這七八百件 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9363.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9386.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
要來搜尋也蠻困難的好 我了解了那我們是不是因為聽起來就是院內我們還要再努力看怎樣把它公開嘛那我們是不是可以鼓勵大家多投國際的一些期刊做院外的發表因為回到重點嘛我們就是要自籌嘛那自籌一定要有一定的一個研究實力讓大家可以可信嘛所以這部分我們是不是可以有一些機制來鼓勵大家呢報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9387.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9405.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
相對於10年前我們核營所最新生的時候福島事件之前有1500位總共員工包括資源的人力但是現在剩不到1000位所以相對這個數量也逐年在減少但是我們會要求比較高品質我們希望投稿的時候要中這個品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9406.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9424.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
因配合的比較高的我們會鼓勵我們感覺上是應該要影響力最大的這個期刊我們再來鼓勵或者專利因為專利如果一昧的投那這沒有應用價值我想我們也很難一昧的投啦因為其實國外期刊也不是那麼好投嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9425.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9445.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以應該是我們還是要鼓勵大家盡量去啦畢竟我們還是要提供這個公信力嘛不然我們就是會遇到這個自籌款部的問題因為我還是非常擔心就像我一直以來都會說其實我非常關注我們研究人員可不可以得到一個很好的薪資因為這些東西就是跟這個環環相扣所以這部分一定要來持續的努力那院內的報告要怎麼樣公開這我們會持續來追蹤 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝 謝謝張雅玲委員 主委請回我們接下來請葉元芝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9461.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9464.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
麻煩請主委,謝謝好,有請陳主委主委好,因為我們核安會其實跟我們一般民眾的健康非常有關我有注意到,你們其實在2018、2019年那時候還蠻積極去查一些我們的商品有沒有輻射超標的問題還有都有發新聞稿當時,像2019年說去棲查25件東西就有18件 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9491.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9517.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
18件的產品它是有輻射超標的可是2019年之後包括2020、2021、2022我們看到好像被查到的輻射超標的商品就少很多因為我不曉得說是你們最近沒有配合消保出去稽查還是說我得到的數據是不精準的數據所以想就這個部分跟你請教一下但是我也不想要讓大家產生恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9518.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9532.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
因為我現在是要針對有負離子標榜有負離子的商品請主委先稍微可不可以一分鐘跟大家講一下我們這個負離子的東西它是由哪些方式組成的有哪些方式可以產生負離子 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9534.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9559.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
有一些是天然的有一些是特意添加當然有一些是噱頭就是商業的行銷有一些是摩擦產生有一些是放電的我們現在比較有可能會造成輻射超標的負離子產品它是用什麼方式產生的負離子 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9560.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9588.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
主要是刻意啦刻意什麼就是intentionally就是說刻意的去添加添加的嘛就是如果說它是添加的磨成粉的然後混到商品上的就比較容易產生輻射超標嘛那有一些床墊之前有床墊被你們稽查到就是因為這樣產生的嘛對不對那請教一下為什麼到了2020、2021、2022我這邊手上資料2020年只有稽查到三件輻射超標的商品2021只有兩件2022只有一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9590.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9598.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
請問一下你們每一年總共稽查幾件?幾件商品?那個我請張組長來回答你不曉得報告委員一開始2018年的時候就是等於是跟就是引進了韓國的這種不當添加所以我們那時候也有重視源頭就是這種不當的那個那個粉粉的一個不用盤古開天我問很簡單啦你們稽查幾件?我們目前的話跨部會跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9622.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9637.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
標準檢驗局跟我們的衛福部是要數這邊我們是40件一年40件哪一年40件平均一年40件對 但是實際上有一些是真正買的時候怎麼那麼少 主委怎麼那麼少 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9638.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9664.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
你們之前2018、2019那時候把這種負離子輻射超標講得超恐怖的耶說有的產品輻射超標76倍然後會造成血液跟細胞的病變當時發這新聞稿的時候國人開始注意到負離子這件事情結果後來到近三年每一年只平均積查40件然後抽查的件數這麼的少那代表說你們現在忽然覺得負離子的產品輻射超標不重要了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9667 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9694.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我想是這樣子就是說如果抽到的比率降低那麼我們這個次數就可以少一點廢話嘛你現在你聽聽看你自己在講什麼你說抽少一點就可以發現少一點我們現在是希望核安會找到多一點有問題的商品出來結果你告訴我說抽少一點就可以發現少一點業委員業委員我講的是顛倒我說如果發現比率降低我們就可以抽少一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9696.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9706.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
對,40,不管是發現比率多低啦你抽40件還是非常的少啦你40件是平均大概五天才,大概40件的話你很多天才抽一件嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9708.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9731.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
這個部分我想我們可以再來評估一下看怎麼樣合理的量度所以其實我們在這邊是提醒你抽太少了那你居然回答我說可以抽少一點沒關係因為我們發現比較少而且你這個抽樣也不符合統計上的數據啊你怎麼知道你抽40樣就發現一件這套多少一套這跟你抽的區域有關嘛跟你抽的樣品的對象有關嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9732.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9745.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
對不對你如果是抽1068件符合統計的意義發現逐漸的下降你講的搞不好還有道理啊你是抽40件你就告訴我說現在越來越少這在統計上你也是學者嘛你覺得這在統計上有意義嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9748.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9771.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
請核安會站在大家的健康著想好不好因為是你告訴大家負離子的東西很嚴重嘛對嘛那不用再變了啦剛剛好像一副要吵架的樣子我今天講的是很名聲東西啦好不好再來啦既然核安會這麼重視我們的安全我想問一下這個有關於我還是想問一下有關於核電的問題因為我有看到主委你的授訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9773.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9794.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
你針對國民黨的立委有要提出要讓核電廠演繹的事情你說這個必須要有共識然後核安會是負責安全技術的對不對那個能源政策不是你們制定但我要提醒主委實際上你的一言一行對於社會能不能凝聚共識也是有影響力為什麼因為大家認為要不要有核電廠其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9795.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9814.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
電機在核電廠安不安全這件事情如果核安會可以確保說核電廠是安全的當然大家會容易產生共識那我就請教主委因為最近昨天地震什麼最近大家都很關心地震的話題嘛403大地震後來又有很多次的餘震我想請教一下在這一波地震的這個問題當中核電廠有沒有發生問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9817.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9840.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
呃沒有合一零零四零三核電廠、核一廠、核二廠那麼有燃料池的水核一核二核一核二都會停機啦那核三有問題嗎核三沒有問題核三完全沒問題嘛因為他是在恆春那麼這個震度齁在這個花蓮那麼在南部地區他的震度特別低齁所以這個在氣象局的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9841.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9863.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
地震的那個 那請教一下我們的核電廠當初在蓋的時候有做過耐震的評估嗎?大概可以耐震多少?幾級?當然有 它有一定的停機的標準就是說你到達一定的程度的時候它就自動 shut down 就自動停機所以即便是正央在屏東發生那麼大的地震其實核電廠應該還是可以撐得住嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9866.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9891.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這個是有一點有風險我跟委員報告比如說核一、核二水溢出來那麼這一次是7.2級的地震在花蓮但是核一、核二廠你知道它的震度多少嗎它是2%到3%的重力加速度所以是相對的低的也就是說在那個區塊在那個地點它的震度是 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9891.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9892.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9921.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9942.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
願意接受核電了我想然後同時前之前又被徵詢要不要當行政院長可見現在民進黨高層是認為核電不是說不能用啦請教一下你最近有沒有接到什麼指示跟你講說有關於核電的發言要傾向於逐漸這個要開放的方向有沒有沒有沒有完全沒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9942.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9968.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那因為你上一次我們在質詢你的時候你講了一句很耐人尋味的話啦你說核電安不安全你不知道有發生事情就是不安全沒發生事情就是安全這句話很玄啦我也參透蠻久的啦那請問那請教一下這個剛剛因為我剛剛問的問題你沒有回答啦你沒有回答啦那我希望說核電因為時間到了啦我們還是希望核安會可以秉持著讓核電安全的角度對不對這是你們的工作嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9968.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9984.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這一定的那對外的發言我覺得應該秉持著自己的專業跟良心不應該配合執政者的意識形態好 謝謝謝謝葉委員好 謝謝葉元芝委員主委請回好 我們接下來請陳培宇委員好 謝謝主席那有請主委 謝謝好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10000.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10028.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
好 陳委員好好 主委早安那今天繼續跟您討論我們辦公室一直持續關心的這個問題由來在過去審查的部分呢我們其實跟你們一直討論到關於輻射防護跟服安管制的問題那之前呢主委也跟我們說過關於這個游離輻射防護法多年沒有修正的地方那去年核安衛有預告即將有修正草案那上個月在業務報告質詢的時候主委這邊也有提到是持續辦理修正草案的研議作業當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10029.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10047.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
目前再次跟主委確定目前的進度是?會等到行政院新的團隊上來再跟行政院做一些溝通所以這邊您會留任嗎?還是會持續做好交接跟討論嗎?這個不是很清楚沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10048.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10070.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那我想我們應該更多委員都會一起關心這個議題喔主要是因為相關的一般民眾如果去做X光檢查的時候他們是偶爾接觸到可是我們更關心的是相關的從業人員他們因為工作的關係頻繁的接觸到放射線所以我們認為更需要積極的協助做劑量管制確保放射線不會對相關從人的身體造成什麼不健康的影響喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10071.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10088.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
所以關於核安會的修法方向我們也再次提醒請協助降低從業人員的劑量那我想你們一直表現出很積極的態度這邊先感謝主委跟給予肯定但同時你們有提到後續還會做不預警的稽查這個部分是不是也請主委再次回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10089.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10109.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這個部分是我們一直在努力的我之前有講過胡適環境、人員的安全我們今年這次上個月到這個月我們多做了哪些事情我們給所有的護理學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10110.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10127.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
大專業院校大三以上的學生我們有38家我們會辦理10場的教育訓練活動所以這個前一陣子陳敬明委員上一屆的那他還寫了那樣來感謝我就是說這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10129.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10137.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
今年也配合新島管事加入屏保的作業對 那其實這個也是後續我要問到那如果我覺得這個部分有除了開始相關課程之外我想課程之後針對學生或是上課的從業人員給予相關的問卷確保是不是你們提供的課程真的有服務到他們現場的需要我想這個部分也要請主委後續再繼續的督促相關課程的進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10157.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10179.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
關於商用航空空勤人員他們接觸到宇宙射線在輻射防護、空勤人員劑量管制的部分目前你們的規劃有沒有機會納入後續這個游離輻射法的防護規範之下嗎?有的,那個這個空勤人員一般那個ICRP就是國際的學會大概就是5到10個豪溪火每年 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10180.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10193.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
台灣一般來講因為我們是緯度比較低所以大概沒有這樣的問題但是今年10月我們跟民航局有要合作在這個部分做空情人員宇宙線的管理示範計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10204.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10232.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那麼這個部分我們是會結合相關的人員來做一個試辦計畫那麼也跟六家國內的航空公司做合作那麼來試辦一下就是說空情人員那麼他健康檢查他的這個情況怎麼樣那麼得到的數據也會提供給航空公司作為他們調整航班跟班次跟評次的一些參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10237.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10255.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
十月跟民航局會召開會議六家國內航空公司和國營航空公司會進行後續討論從此把相關數據作為後續研議入法的可能性我相信我們這些所有的準備跟研議都是為了相關從業人員的安全所以這個部分也要拜託主委持續監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10256.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10283.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
好 謝謝那接下來關於一樣還是要談到這個含氚廢水的事情其實在前一個會期包含主委那個趙偉、伊金委員也提到就是中國排放這個核廢水的事情那因為我們知道日本方他們提供相關的數字是比較科學跟比較積極的而且應該相對是公開透明的可是我想很多人都在關心跟擔心那中國這邊不知道主委您這邊目前的掌握進度是 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10285.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10310.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這個部分我們也正在進行中國大陸沿岸核電廠有58座台有十幾座在興建當中這個部分除了我們海域的量測監視之外剛才我有提到我們將來會利用海岩船增加不同的點位跟頻次來估算 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10312.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10319.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
來實際量測相關的這些含氚廢水的一些情況另外一方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10320.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10341.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我們也跟氣象署、國研院跟氣象署合作做擴散跟洋流的預報模式來了解我們臺灣海峽部分的一個情況過去我們是針對日本寒川廢水那麼我們今年應該是第三季吧會來做這些擴散的模擬跟委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10342.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10362.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
第三季會開始執行相關研究可是後續公佈的頻率呢?或是我們如何讓國人安心?自主檢測我們當然相信我們台灣的研究量能可是有沒有可能有一些我們沒有辦法探測到他們不清楚的但是可能還是會引起國人擔心的部分? |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10362.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10374.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那這個部分我們還會來細緻化的討論跟精進然後來瞭解一下看看怎麼樣可以比較完整那後續的公佈頻率目前有沒有預定的方向跟可能性的規劃我們還在 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10377.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10392.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
因為我想再一次還是要提醒就是其實關於日本含氚廢水的部分我相信你們已經也做了非常多不管是網路上的圖卡或是說明或是像這樣子在業務報告當中也不斷提出訴求希望讓國人安心可是我想要中國這個部分確實是讓大家會比較擔心相對擔心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10395.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10424.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所以我剛剛問到除了你們相關的研究計畫之外公布的頻率或是後續跟國人溝通的管道我想這也是那個主委這邊要一再的督促相關的同仁是不是要更加友善的溝通因為我想溝通不是只是把訊息散播出去而是讓兩端的人共同走到一個可以對話的平台上那我想這個溝通平台另外一端應該是台灣的國民台灣的公民關心相關還有包含台灣的漁民喔所以我想這個部分是不是再請這邊主委多做一些說明或可能性的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10425.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10436.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
好 那我們會再來努力一下好 以上好 那謝謝主委最後我還有1分鐘那可不可以請一下海委會現場有同仁來 對嗎好 謝謝那主委請回座 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10440.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10461.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我想這邊就快速跟海委會確定一下我知道其實你們在週末已經做了相關釐清了但是我想我們還是讓你們說明一下關於這個民眾通報然後我想你們也跟台北市這邊有合作快速去到了現場那我們一下子聽到他們到底是不是真的禁錮還是說是假的然後但是是廣告不實還是到底發生了什麼事情目前這邊可不可以請您快速回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10462.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10463.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
海保署已經在送驗當中,結果多久會出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10475.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10490.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
目前的規劃是?對不起我們沒有準備到這個但我們會回去了解那我們辦公室也持續跟你們追蹤好嗎?因為我想非常多海洋保育團體還有所有去到現場的民眾都非常的詫惡就是怎麼會發生這樣的事情但我們知道你們第一時間有出動去關心所以後續我們辦公室也會持續再跟你們追蹤相關議題討論好謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10496.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10518.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
好 謝謝陳培鈺委員那主席在這裡再宣告一下就是本來一開始有說是林倩啟委員這個質詢完之後我們要來處理這個解凍案跟臨時提案那現在改為吳佩奕委員這個質詢完我們再來處理接下來我們請林倩啟委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10532.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10543.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
謝謝趙偉那我這邊請這個核安會主委陳主委那是不是副主委一起就是相助一下主委有請陳副主委跟張副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10545.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10566.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
另外外交部也有代表是不是劉專偉嗎?如果是劉專偉這邊因為有一些好請外交部劉專偉好謝謝非常感謝主委前幾天來跟本席這邊做一些說明那有一些本席注意到的重點那這邊也蠻清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10566.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10571.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
昨天也看了大家單位的專案報告整個敘述20頁總共6343頁針對這個主題寫得也蠻詳盡的我簡單的歸類一下關於去年112年8月24日日本開始確定執行含氚廢水的排放 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10590.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10606.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那應該是貴會就是核安會那協同的外交部、海委會、農業部、衛福部、交通部的相關部會然後向我們大院來報告這個整個周遭海域含氚廢水的監控與現在還有未來的因應那 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10607.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10630.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
看來我們是非常嚴密的監控日本排放的動態還有每天的擴散動線這個主委之前有講過還有強化海域的輻射的監測那落實資訊的公開所以剛才也有委員這邊提到那未來有一些的資訊那如果有一些新的因素加了進去那未來應該怎麼讓民眾來知道那這個部分也很感謝貴會 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10631.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10658.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那重要的結論就是一切都在掌握當中那請國人放心那那個本席這邊有一些想法跟建議那這個東西本席在你們報告非常的明確那這大家的一起合作那大家都可以放心那今天也各部會都有人出席但是我覺得事實上很重要的是核安會整體的成員那個專業程度就我跟你們的接觸是無庸置疑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10659.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10676.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
過去核安會包括在現在為醫學領域的貢獻是非常多的是不是大家可以考慮一下摒除所有非理性的反核的政治氛圍我知道貴會在目前的醫學領域還是投入了非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10677.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10691.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那剛才有委員講到這個核能的一個發展感覺上現在在臺灣有點像過街老鼠但是確實在每一個階段就像櫃會講的核能不是只有拿來發電所以核能在各個醫學的 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10692.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10705.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這個領域的投入還有目前相關的這個輻射的部分我相信櫃會是非常專業的所以如果能夠摒除這個政治的意識形態或許未來的發展會更為專業更正道那那個櫃會的專業絕對無庸置疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10709.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10727.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
好那所以這次日本的含氚廢水在專題報告上我們知道對象是日本那我們跟日本的這個關係應該算是還蠻有默契的所以這次他們應該對我們也算蠻友善的所以相關的數據還有我們要研議的一些因素他們應該是相對容易的獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10728.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10753.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那這邊呢就是在整備跟這個未來我想都沒有問題這日本跟我們的關係應該是沒問題但是呢亞洲地區關於有核電廠的國家像剛才前面的陳委員也提到中國那他就很關心如果中國也有這樣的議題呈現那就您剛才的一個回應看起來還是我們自己要來處理這件事情那我們就不知道中國給我們的數據會如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10755.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10781.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那更何況在亞洲國家我知道好像印度那中國還有南韓都有那您在跟本席報告的時候我們知道台灣的海域然後跟日本的一個相互關係可是如果今天相似的事情出現在這些也有核能的國家那我們在外交的這個部分能夠也比較辦理嗎就是藉時那外交的這個關係能夠像這次日本這樣子這麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10784.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10803.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
外交部,因為今天來的是台日關係的代表所以不知道您這邊或者是部裡面有沒有探討這樣一個議題也就是說日本跟我們是比較有默契的那如果在其他的幾個國家發生了相關的事情那我們應該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10806.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10825.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
外交部一貫的立場就是會配合這個核安會他在實務上面有任何的需求呢我們都會盡力的去跟這個相關的國家來協商溝通好好好謝謝那剛才我這邊提醒是因為剛才陳委員其實也有先談到中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10826.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10845.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
其實不只中國跟印度我們知道在先前跟主委這邊討論的時候各個海域、洋流、湧等等有很多海域的狀況海委會也請多注意都不一樣所以我們是不是應該未雨綢繆一下現在我們是運氣還蠻好的跟我們關係不錯的日本您也是台日關係的一個代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10846.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10874.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那是不是可以把這個資訊帶回到部裡面我們應該未雨綢繆那看市核安會呢要有一個兵棋推演那還是外交部這邊要先做一些準備所以這個是我這邊的一個提醒日本也曾經公佈我們其實也有排放這個廢水入海他說我們在2021年4月份也有這個我們已經敲定就是他們的這個廢水 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10875.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10898.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
排放了 那我們要很嚴密的監控那你們有一些數據公布了那我在這邊就不多談就是他們也公布了我們核三廠幾季的一個排放的廢水那這個包括法國的那個就是說排放廢水到海洋跟大氣裡面的一個狀況那這其實民眾沒有辦法知道的那麼清晰 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10899.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10925.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
有沒有可能這個會裡面可以把這個部分的資訊轉得相對比較清楚就像主委在跟本席這個報告的時候那對於就是這個承載量或者是就是最高值跟最低值的一個法定限值那讓民眾能夠清楚的知道那這個比例的兼具那大家會比較放心那 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10926.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10952.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
這個科學數據的一個基礎那怎麼樣合理安全我想這個是民眾對於核能安全了解的一個兩極化那我們常常都把很簡單的概念就這個等於那個那我們很感謝那個會裡面跟我們談到那個核能不只是只有發電而已那我們現在常常把那個A就等於B、B就等於C然後其實裡面有很細微的專業的因素那沒有辦法講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10953.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10978.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
就讓大家有些誤導那就變成兩極化然後非常的對立所以有沒有可能會裡面未來在這些安全值上那還有核能可以應用的層面上可以跟社會大眾用比較簡單的但是有科學根據的話語講清楚那因為這是非常專業的東西我們應該稍微這個逃脫政治的這個對立性那都是為大眾跟人民的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10978.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10978.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
請勿模仿 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10993.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11018.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我也會關心那個洋流啊、湧啊在各個不同的海域光是每一個港通通都不一樣每一個碼頭都有很大的差異那更何況我們不要講說天氣很好產生的熱對流所以我會關心這些很小的因素但是這是個人知道的因素我不好在這邊多講但是既然幾個部會一起來這個支撐核安會讓我們這樣主委非常注意這個核安全性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11018.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11047.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那在安全之後呢那這個核安會應該可以有更大的功能尤其是有這麼素質齊全和優秀的這個同仁在這個會裡面那我這邊期待我們這個核能的科學能夠更精進那最後作為一個原住民我還是要談雖然會裡面也是有跟我講到有關於蘭嶼的這個核廢料的問題那我知道會裡面也一直在努力所以我就有幾個訴求就是持續的監控但是要非常細緻那定期的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11048.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11070.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
就是也是一樣就是清楚的說明讓大家了解那當然大家心理層面都會被A等於V然後V就等於C這樣子的社會氛圍所影響所以怎麼樣突破這個然後最後就是確實的大家的這個心裡的害怕有沒有可能真的做到大家心裡的期待的移除那這還是要把它當件事情做短中長期的一個計劃好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11072.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11077.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
就謝謝各單位共勉之加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11082.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11104.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
謝謝 謝謝林倩琦委員主委請回我們接下來請羅志強委員羅志強羅志強委員不在我們請鄭天才委員鄭天才鄭天才委員不在我們請張家俊委員張家俊張家俊委員不在我們接下來請吳佩奕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11112.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11115.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
謝謝主席,我請何安慧主委好,請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11121.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11141.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
主委好,這個0403發生花蓮大地震那全台灣大家非常關心包括世界上很多國家都在關心台灣這一次地震之後我們第一時間以及後續震災的處置那一直到現在其實花蓮的餘震都不斷那有一件大家很關心的就是在這一次的花蓮地震當中我們的這個核電廠有沒有發生相關的災情那我們第一時間怎麼處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11148.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11168.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那個我們第一時間因為是早上7點多快到8點第一時間就馬上去理解所有的可能的情況那麼可能不到9點的時候我們都已經釐清了馬上做因應那麼主要是核一廠、核二廠那麼燃料池的水有溢出來那加起來大概是3500升 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11170.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11172.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
獲得的核能安全委員會主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11186.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11189.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11207.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11207.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
蘇貞昌議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11228.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11251.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
過去應該是沒有啦就是第一次發生那我們燃料池的水因為這個不是一般的水它一出來之後我們的回收處置它這個回收的工作要怎麼樣進行是我們的工作人員你們大概有多少的人力要什麼樣的方式能夠來處理這個回收然後回收到什麼地方再把它裝回這個燃料池裡面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11252.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11272.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
欸 沒有齁 那個是這樣子齁 第一個就是確定不到廠區外 第一個那第二個它燃料池的水 它是有漏就是它有一個洩的孔 它會流到一個地方去集起來所以它才會 你可以計算出來它流的量是多少把它集中來做回收 那就把它放置在那個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11276.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11288.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
燃料池一出來因為地震的關係其實大家會擔心那你們第一時間做了回收也做了檢測後續也持續的檢測目前是沒有安全的問題沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11290.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11318.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
除了我們的核電廠以外清大裡面的這個水池式反應器是不是有發生溢出的情形我們核安會有沒有掌握有有有什麼樣的情況對它大概是比較少量大概10公升就像委員的這個PowerPoint裡面寫的那麼我們其實在第一時間都在本會的官網都有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11319.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11325.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
告知民眾這樣的訊息那麼當然最重要的就是目前是安全無虞 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11325.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11325.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11355.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11382.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
管制我們的這個核子反應器的設施現行有沒有法規有,我們會裡面掌管非常多法規跟法律核子設施反應法核子反應器設施管制法那麼它還有幾十條的執法那麼內容相當的多那包含如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11383.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11388.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我們的核子反應器設施管制法裡面我們就是再來管制我們反應器的興建以及運轉其中我們總則的第一條第一條明確寫到本法我們是要管制核子反應器設施來確保公眾安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11407.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11421.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
所以公眾的安全絕對是我們在做反應器的管制很重要我們目前在法裡面要求我們要去做管制跟管理的所以現在我們立法院裡面本院有不同的委員提出包括要推動核子反應器設施嚴厲條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11431.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11446.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這我是反對因為呢我認為我們現行已經有法規在進行核子反應器的管制那直接在法案裡面名稱就入法是要推動我認為這個是侵害了我們行政權的裁決的範圍因為究竟要不要演繹這應該不是政治問題它應該是一個科學跟安全的問題我們立法院沒有這麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11459.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11483.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
如果說什麼事情立法院、立委都立一個法條來決定的話那以後我們不需要專家我們以後不需要專業的公共政策的決策了所以我還是希望說公共政策的討論尤其核電的使用核電廠的研議牽涉到了公眾的安全性要回歸到專業回歸到科學來進行討論我覺得這才是根本之道 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11489.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11493.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以我反對立法院裡面直接要求要推動核子反應器研議要把它入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11497.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11522.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
立法院真的沒有這麼大所以這一點我希望我們可以一起來努力為台灣的公眾的安全來把關那最後呢我想要跟這個主委討論的是因為我在看一個教授的論文是過去在1985年的時候當時第一次台灣發現了我們有輻射物 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11523.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11525.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
這個1985年就是我出生前的兩年嘛然後呢 這個第一個發現在哪裡呢是在我們臺北的民生別墅的起源牙科那這個案件為什麼要提出來講這發生的經過是呢就是我們當時的原委會有派人去檢測他要使用X光機結果呢 那個X光機都還沒有通電就檢測出來說 有強烈的輻射現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11553.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11555.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
然後就開始來進行後續的這個調查但是呢當時委員會是黑箱處理第一個沒有告知牙科診所裡面的相關人員我們檢測到了輻射那原來這個是在哪裡就在他的建築物牆裡面的鋼筋裡面就具有輻射了 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11572.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11579.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那我覺得這個是給我們一個很大的警惕跟教訓因為這個是公安的事件要秉持科學性來處理不能來政治的介入所以當時第一個不只是沒有告知當時牙科診所的人員然後呢也禁止媒體報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11592.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11596.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
一直是到後續陸續還有好幾個案件發生1992年的時候也是在我的選區廈門街台電宿舍也是一樣是我們有一個台電的員工他就是把這個輻射偵測器帶回家就小朋友拿出來玩結果就發現說怎麼在家裡就發現有異常的輻射現象那後來呢委員會才前往了監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11614.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11619.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
然後來開始進行拆除拆除下的剩下的輻射鋼筋送回我們核能研究所來儲存那我最後請問目前在台北市我們目前這樣子的輻射屋還剩下多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11629.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11638.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
目前這個課題應該已經漸進的沒有了現在剩下7戶我們剩下7戶剩下7戶那麼我們大概預計在119年會因為自然輻射的衰減 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11647.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11651.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ﹐解凍案二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ﹐解凍案二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ﹐解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11665.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11690.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那也跟委員報告因為輻射鋼筋的問題所以射源不小心融入到這個熔煉爐裡面那這個會造成很大的問題所以我們現在也有門框式的偵檢器做一些源頭的把關所以確定就是都大概會是安全的所以大約我們現在在市面上大概都會有做這樣的檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11692.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11703.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
福壽屋目前在台北市僅存7戶那我希望我們核安委還是要持續的跟這個民眾來保持聯繫讓他們知道接下來的情況如何來處置好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝吳佩儀委員主委請回好 那我們現在先來處理解凍案 私案請議事委員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11717.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11739.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
一、核能安全委員會含為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢送稅出第二款第12項決議一、預算凍結書面報告請查照案二、核能安全委員會含為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢送稅出第二款第12項決議二、預算凍結書面報告請查照案三、核能安全委員會含為113年度中央政府總預算決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11740.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11762.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
解凍稅出第二款第12項決議三、預算凍結書面報告請查詔案四、核能安全委員會含為113年度中央政府總預算決議解凍稅出第二款第12項決議四、預算凍結書面報告請查詔案先讀完畢好 那第一案第一案是第一幕一般行政預算編列6億1220萬9千元凍結100萬元請問委員有無意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11770.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11795.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
沒有齁 那我們就予以動之提報院會好 第二案第二案是第二幕喔預算編列23億3866萬1千元凍結1千萬元這案有沒有意見好 柯志恩委員這一案喔可以嗎 這聲音 這聲音這聲音不夠好聽不夠大 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11803.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11830.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
好我覺得這一案裡面因為你有提到有關一個核一乾儲場的一個問題但是呢我必須要請核安會還是要釐清一些問題的癥結所在嘛因為你台電因為要申請水保計畫卻不按圖施工然後新北市因為有查到違法之後提出這個變更的設計那新北就是請這個台電補送修正後的水保的計畫但是台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11832.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11841.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
送13次也都不修正目前為止都沒有無卷可審沒有辦法審叫新北,新北審啥?河岸會是不是應該積極請臺電趕快補送水保計畫而不是讓臺電一直放話說是新北在卡乾除廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11849.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11852.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
這部分應該是做一個處理嗎?有沒有誰可以對這個問題提出一些?因為這個蠻重要的,到處都是被釐清啊,你的水保送了13次也不修正,然後到底目前是怎麼樣?我覺得這個東西很重要。還有上次我也質詢過我們的主委,特別提到了這個有關於核廢高放處的計畫。那現在不管是高放或是低放的部分, |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11871.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11874.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11892.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11902.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
告訴我們一些目前進步到怎麼樣不過以前的問題到現在到底目前是如何我想這個應該是跟台電有關有沒有一些代表因為這是環環相扣的有沒有誰可以來回應我剛剛所點的這兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11909.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11931.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
學徒保持的部分計畫那個水保的確是地方政府的權責那現在水保這個事情我們也有掌握到已經有點進展了就是他們走了一個行政協調那這行政協調已經有結論所以我們所知道的我們詢問台電呢台電目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11931.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11940.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
就是已經合一的水保改善計畫就是他已經送了送件他送了13次他都沒有就空在那邊讓新北市無案可審是那現在已經重新送件了第14次是 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11949.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11975.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
主席這個部分裡面因為我覺得這個部分要把它釐定清楚所以我們現在是不是可以你給我一個時間點到目前的進度是怎麼樣不要每一次我只是不希望每一次到選舉的時候就是永遠都是你剛剛說的是地方權責可是你的東西沒有送過來然後每次送也不做修正的話這個然後每次都說是新北沒有在處理這個問題我覺得這個東西是要做一些的釐清的他們做第10次案可不可以告訴我一些進度或是告訴我到什麼地方否則 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11977.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11985.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
4月16日,台電公司已經送水土保護計劃到新浦市有關中期暫時儲存場的場址請問你們現在的進度到底怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11997.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12010.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
是的那現在選址啊這個都是選址的問題那現在選址的問題呢現在經濟部正在執行那根據廢物家園小組他的要求就是要趕快溝通趕快就是說來進行這個選址 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12014.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12032.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
那我們也管安全我們是建議就是說這個選址的程序要趕快在非核家園小組裡面討論這個也已經去函了已經都送達了這都好像只是在進行式我都看不到一個解答主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12033.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12055.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
可是如果沒有解凍沒有經費怎麼進行選址沒有啦 這個東西這已經長期停留下來的一個問題了啦我覺得還是要給我們一些什麼樣的一個回覆或比較確定的一個回覆我覺得這才是一個比較負責任的方法否則上次到現在都是在進行中進行中進行中因為選址確實是一個難題啦我知道啊 這個大家都很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12057.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12080.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
核安會編的預算都是執行安全審查跟檢查的預算那選擇這個行政作業呢然後水土的這個部分呢我剛剛是提出兩個問題喔好不好我也不會再為難我們這個核安會是不是你可以給我一個更確切把這個進程把這個部分給我一個稍微的一個報告好不好讓我才可以很清楚到底是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12080.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12080.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
要多久給報告? |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12089.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12092.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
第三案有關於第五幕有關於環境輻射偵測預算編列3761萬9千元凍結20萬元這個案有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12118.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12119.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好 柯子嫣召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12127.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12135.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
我只想問一下因為我覺得你這邊是有關於這個核安資訊的問題那你剛告訴我們都會在相關的平台上面來提供民眾做參考我可不可以知道是哪個平台啊我好像只有看到一個什麼海洋監測平台是不是海洋監測平台什麼平台這個大家都看不到耶而且你剛我上去看了一下什麼穿啊色134、137都不見得看得懂你看你那個平台上面的一個宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12154.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12174.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我覺得你們應該更平易近人、淺顯易懂而且最主要大家如果有疑問的話應該馬上可以找得到顯然這一塊目前為止我看不到比較好的一個成效或結果可不可以告訴我你們這都放在什麼相關的訊息都放在什麼平台我現在只找到一個海洋監測平台其他在哪裡那個跟委員報告那個召委海洋資訊、海洋擴散主委你那個麥克風有沒有開 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12185.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12212.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
這是一個海洋資訊、海洋擴散的平台我們在河岸一點通的APP就有在我們的官網也有所以你點進去可以看到所有的資訊是這樣子是吧我等一下要點眼看因為我剛剛是看到海洋監測的平台你們看到我覺得這個宣傳還有你們所寫的term你們的 terminology實在是有點太需要更淺顯易懂一點好不好只是小小的提出建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12214.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12218.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
第4案第4案是有關於第6幕核物料管制業務預算編列21129000元凍結20萬元這個案有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12234.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12234.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
楊瓊英委員陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12264.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12290.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
楊委員好我們討論過在日本政府110年4月份他宣告了福島這個核電廠的這個氚廢水的問題那112年開始排放那日本東京電力呢也在4月19號他再次啟動再次啟動排放入海的這個計畫那預計是要排放這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12293.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12316.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
7800噸的核廢水那持續到5月7號呢也就是從去年的8月份到現在它是第5次第5輪的排放那今年是首度那所以本席想要請問因為東電也曾經說它最快要到2051年才能夠排放完畢哇 這民眾一聽到就很緊張它現在連那個進口魚 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12320.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12346.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
進口商都受影響又沒有人敢買會不會有問題而且時間那麼長2021年到2051年所以對於他們排放的時間點我方有沒有掌控這樣的排放對於我方我們跟日本的交流都非常好你們有沒有怎麼樣討論保障我們人民的一個權益跟海洋的權益請說說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12348.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12363.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
好 謝謝楊委員非常好的問題也在這個機會跟委員稍微說明他是從去年112年8月24第一次排放那他是按照日本的財年是去年到今年的3月多 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12364.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12365.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
委員提到說我們跟日本有沒有什麼相關的掌握我們跟日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12385.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12410.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
那個NRA就是日本的原子力規制委員會就相當於我們的核安會那麼有合作協議合作備忘錄大概是2014開始那麼我們每年都有派人附訪那麼我們核安會也有在駐日的代表處有一位專責的人員負責核能、福安方面的知識 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12411.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12425.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
知訊所以換句話說有掌控有溝通管道完全有那主委本期要請教對於我們的遠洋漁業呢穿含量他的檢測我們是不是也有資訊的揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12430.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12438.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
包含北太平洋公海、秋刀魚我們過去都有在做檢測所以本期要請教我們國內針對於生物栓檢測的實驗室你的量能夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12446.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12454.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
量能最近提升去年9月27行政院給我們預備金有一個量能提升計畫4960萬檢測實驗室從國研院一家變成三家我們輻射偵測中心跟高雄的 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12463.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12469.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
所以是有在增加量能也代表以往的確我們也是不夠加進5000萬的經費來做精進那另外針對於碳14跟碾12的這個檢測我們的檢測能力夠嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12480.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12507.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我們這個會有一個智慧監測站的計畫今年開始113年開始今年開始在我們輻射偵測中心每年900萬4年編4年今年會做先做碳14明年會做點129那麼這個技術上有一些難度但是呢它其實它的風險沒有那麼高因為我們呼應這個我們民眾跟立委的要求所以我們去建置這樣的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12508.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12533.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
因為民眾會害怕那國際也都已經有這樣的量能所以我們預算也給也就是四年一年九百萬那我們也希望針對於碳14跟碳129的部分你們的建制要跟世界接軌然後我們自己有我們自己的量能這樣才不會被欺負啊要不然我們自己連監測都沒有人家說 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12534.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12551.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
人家隨便給你亂排這是我們非常緊張的一件事情所以我們為什麼要給這些預算你們辛苦趕快去建置把建置完成能夠保障 好嗎接下來本期最後一個議題請教你們核安會曾經要求說台電滾動式的去檢討處置技術的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12554.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12567.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那所以包括集中式的儲存設施當然你們沒有涉及到長子的一個選擇這一點是大家都一直在非常爭議的那所以呢本席要來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12569.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12584.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
你們要如何順利的去推動低放射性的這個廢棄物的最終處置計畫因為每一次本席在經濟委員會他都告訴我我們還要考慮最終場址是怎麼樣但是實際上我們這邊還沒納入那這空談啊那是怎麼辦請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12589.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12607.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那個低放廢棄物那個這個是一個應該要做的問題應該要做的問題那麼我們過去曾經在這個金門的烏丘跟台東的達人那麼有選了兩個可能的地點 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12608.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12630.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
那當然這是需要公民投票那麼也遇到一些困難所以延遲了到現在那麼這個其實也是牽扯到核廢料那麼他都會碰到一些民眾的抗爭立委的關說那這些問題所以我說你是空談嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12631.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12660.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
你們在三年前爆出說非核家園推動小組三年前所以本席提出這個也就是說政府你不要空談你不要空談你一個議題到現在三年沒有成果有誰告訴我們民眾沒辦法沒辦法廠子沒有辦法決定有什麼技巧有什麼技術還是有什麼方案都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12662.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12685.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這三年等於是零空轉所以本期之所以提出這個當然爭議很大但是我還是認為民眾靠的是政府政府應該是要有所作為你長子沒有辦法決定你的技術世界各國有什麼技術你們應該去撐就像剛剛探一二九一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12686.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12706.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
世界各國都有了 如果我們還不建制 隨便給你亂排那怎麼可以呢 對不對所以你們喊了一個 民進黨政府喊了一個什麼非核家園那你現在全部都空談 全部都空談所以我本期不希望如此 而是務實的去做 好不好 加油好 謝謝楊委員謝謝 謝謝楊瓊英委員主委請回 我們接下來請張祺凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12730.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12734.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我期待今天我們的對話因為今天看起來都是很專業的人士我們少一點點政治多一點專業好不好我先請教你最近看起來不管是要延續或者重啟這個核能美國、德國、日本都在做我先看第一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12758.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12784.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
注意你有注意到沒有最近年發生311福島核災的日本他都重啟全球最大的這個核電廠了然後看第二張來我們看一下美國拜登政府剛剛通過要提供15億的美元的貸款要重啟密西根州一座關閉以後的這個核電廠第三個我們再看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12785.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12811.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
德國在烏俄戰爭之後他做了一個非常非常重要的決定剛剛那兩個都是停了以後重新開啟對不對現在德國是直接烏俄戰爭之後把原定要處理的三座核電廠基礎全部都研議了那我請教諸位若站在安全的這個立場你覺得台灣現在需要的電量這麼大德國能、日本能、美國能台灣現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12815.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12841.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
能不能重啟我們的核二或者是嚴厲我們的核三這個是很大的問題啦就是大家社會很關切的問題那麼我們大概都知道我們台灣面臨了這個兩極的聲音就是這麼多年來那麼如果很好解決就我們今天不用在這個地方討論嘛所以你是專家所以我要一開始說我當然知道這是政敵的事件嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12844.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12864.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
像老實講,要不要延逸或者是重啟,基本上都是一線之間啦,對不對?注意,你應該有注意到,你對這個美國智庫的專家這個約頓·馬吉利斯應該很熟悉,對不對?他在昨天他直接,美國智庫這個專家,說明應該叫核能的,他在這裡說啊,他講到第一個,台灣承受不起切電,因為我們現在要發展半導體嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12866.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12891.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
你看台積電那個每個擴廠每蓋一個新的要多少要多少的這個電他講一個非常非常關鍵的賴清德就是我們總統當選人一定要趁機趕快調整廢核的這個政策然後講是一念之間所以我今天會請教如果從專業的這個角度我意思是說不管是核三廠的延續或者核二廠的重啟你們安全上可以提供很專業可以確保安全嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12893.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12919.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
那個安全的部分是要去努力的那麼它不是可以完全的保證我委員沒有這個不是在變的意思那麼人為疏失那麼天災、地震那麼它總是有風險那這個其實也就是另外一個聲音的 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12920.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12921.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
所以其實現在經濟是我們發展這個命脈 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12944.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12973.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我本身也在經濟委所以我今天特別來問你這個事情我剛才特別說了半導體這個發展太重要了包括台積電都要到我們嘉義去了用水這個用電我都非常非常的注意那目前我發現一線之間就是說民進黨政府到底要不要做我認為這樣啦如果民進黨之後後來想要核酸要研議了我相信各個部門很快就可以動了那如果沒有的話現在在野黨都在努力現在很多立委都已經提了案子我直接請教你了 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12973.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12992.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
包括已經有人提說讓核三廠可以直接延長對不對那他講的就是把條文裡面他研議的那個時間往後拉可是我看到條文裡面又碰到一個問題你差不多進警五年前要提出來對不對那目前這個修法有辦法去解決剛講要五年前提出來這個問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12994.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13005.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
修法是一件事但是直到到期核三廠一號機是7月27我們去盤整了所有國外的案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13006.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13025.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
沒有說他還沒有核發執照就可以繼續研議這個是我們目前在國際上的所有的案例的去觀察那個可不可以追一下那個德國的事我們去稍微了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13026.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13054.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
如果德國能的話我相信台灣也能啦當然這個安全一定是第一啦我們不會在安全沒有保障之下去推這個什麼嚴厲跟不可能一定要尊重你們專家的意見可是德國這個去參考一下另外還有一個問題我找到一個解套的方式是我們民國90百年曾經進行核儀廠這個嚴厲的程序嘛因為他們是放在三一福島這個世界嘛對不對那現在如果要重新啟動是不是98年這個模式可以比照辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13056.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13064.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
你是說委員是說我們在民國98年有做核一廠的那個研議的準備嘛對不對委員是說核一廠嗎對對對那種核一廠那還是不是喔 現在不是說核一廠要 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13065.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13093.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那時候民國九十八年是核一廠研議嘛對不對我說這個整個程序可以比例如說核三廠現在決定要研議的話可以比照核一廠那時候的狀況來做嗎核一廠那時候的狀態是在五年前那現在是在五年以內核三廠剩下就是幾個月而已對 所以情況是不一樣的所以沒辦法比照還是卡到那五年就對了對對對啊所以現在看到地位說政府說不會塞所以我們各個部會就動起來要不然的話那個五年就卡死了是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13094.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13101.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
那包括目前各黨現在提任的修法這五年事情都解不開嗎?是不是都解不開? |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13102.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13124.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
修法是比較大的議題牽扯到很多層面我剛才跟不同的委員做一些報告除了我們的核關法之外牽扯到很多的執法交錯的連在一起具體來講要非常完備其實需要很整密的思考跟做下來看這是法律問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13126.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13152.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
法律問題也牽扯到很多專業嘛我剛才看你剛才在裡面在問你的事你也認為說核電是一個減碳的能源嘛尤其現在對我們台灣的發電來說電是需要更多的電的所以最後一個問題我請教請教請教諸位所以如果真的要研議核三的一號機或者二號機或者是這個核二廠要重新的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13153.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13158.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
到底有什麼辦法?除了卡了那五年之外有什麼辦法?修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13159.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13187.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
修法是最重要的啦那當然還有一些技術上的問題不好意思修法怎麼修技術上怎麼樣因為你要提供意見我現在只問你專業你認為不是不合專業的有碰到政治的你不要回答我就是完全去除到政治的你現在有兩種可能會被問到同樣有問的問題有可能執政黨的政府例如說總統最近就出去了他如果說真的要做研議或者廚藝他就問你了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13188.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13203.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那也有可能在野黨要請教你這個問題你太敏感你不用回答我問的是專業的問題先跟委員報告那個 能源政策是經濟部啦所以他不會 不會問我啦那麼我們其實是核能安全的管理機關對對對對對所以這個先跟委員做個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13211.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13232.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
抱歉你還是沒有回答我的問題啊你說總統不問你是吧那如果說民間的力量不是只有在野黨喔現在很多你看經濟部長新上去就說要解決缺電的問題嘛所以核能可能都是其中一個考慮企業界都已經提說希望核能這個問題可以解決嘛現在到底除了修法我剛問你你已經講五年這個卡住啦那到底有沒有什麼方式可以解套 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13232.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13242.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
張委員不好意思因為時間是不是事後我們把書面報告或者事後再跟張委員打過好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13247.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13250.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
張淇凱委員林楚瑛委員邱志偉委員蔡奕瑜委員鄭振乾、何新淳、范雲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13275.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13275.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13285.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13304.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
范委員主委午安今天好幾位國民黨委員都問到那個研議的問題我想我之前其實問過您想再請您解答因為您一直說尊重大院對請問一下那個核廢料的安全是不是也是你們有相關的監管責任是的對那蘭嶼的這個遷出據說到底找到放置的地點了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13311.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13322.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
沒有沒有那都沒有的話然後剛剛講新北的這個問題都沒解決那這個核廢料的這個安全就是說研議的話代價是誰付啊要蘭嶼人繼續承擔嗎都找不到可以放置的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13331.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13342.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
主委 你要有道德勇氣該說清楚的問題機會誰承擔要講清楚好不好不能讓一直讓我們原住民就是藍綠人承擔吧這樣有正義嗎主委這樣有正義嗎 有還是沒有沒有 那為什麼沒有辦法簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13353.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13374.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
沒有人願意放嘛所以我們是繼續在傷害蘭嶼人傷害原住民好不好據說這個部分請主委不過那個范委員我們現在對蘭嶼地方儲存庫有做很嚴密的 我知道你們做了研議了可是有答應蘭嶼人這件事情沒有錯吧答應是什麼時候之前要簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13377.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13381.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我今天也在追問你曾經問過的題目第一個 有人跟我陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13400.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13420.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
你們曾經放過這三個量子力學三巨頭在你們的臉書上應該知道吧?主委認得嗎?用邊薛丁格很有名嘛薛丁格的故事大家都知道主委知道左邊那三位女性是誰嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13423.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13439.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
是居里夫人這三位的中間中間是居里夫人嗎?你把中間居里夫人會跟他們三個人站在一起這有沒有弄錯好來我請那個我們中規組組長就您不知道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13441.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13462.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
跟委員報告那是那三個科學家的太太跟媽媽所以不是居里夫人如果是居里夫人那我就要高興了我要講的事情是誇張的是你們的臉書小編放過這張圖當時呢完全沒有解釋左邊三位是誰連是人家的就是說夫人什麼家屬都沒有講 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13463.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13492.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
可是你們居然在跟你們的原能會的性評小組的報告裡面把這張圖跟小編臉書說成說這張圖是在傳達性別對科學發展之影響力無論是科學家本人或是科學家背後之女性支持者均同等重要意思就是說科學家三個是男的然後他們的老婆是女的這個圖叫做傳達性別對科學發展之影響力 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13494.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13516.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
所以你們的科學家沒有女的都是男的所以女性的影響力就是當他們的老婆跟背後的女性支持者是這樣嗎?這是你們的性別平等的報告欸不是 這跟委員報告一下如果委員從網路上看這張照片的話大部分的照片都把三位女性全部Cut掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13516.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13536.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
所以你們放進去已經對女性很好了主委還以為上面是居里夫人呢因為我們要注重性品所以這些後面相關的人物你要放喔比切掉這當然是有加分啦可是把這張的而且你們你們的小編完全沒有說這旁邊三個是誰放了卻不說人家是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13537.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13566.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
但是更誇張的是當你們性別小組我們行政院主流化各部會都有性別小組就是說你們給人家的報告是要講科學家跟性別的時候拿這張圖然後告訴大家性別平等就是科學家本人還沒講男性科學家背後是女性支持者就是說是用這個來講性別跟科技你們都找不到任何一個女性科學家來告訴大家性別跟科學發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13568.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13594.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
這個部分我們會來再這是你們的會議記錄我剛唸的東西都是你們會議記錄你們性別小組的會議記錄就是有委員王平詢問這件事然後你們的人家已經問了你還可以答成這樣然後還在這個報告裡就這樣所以呢為什麼要關心你們你看時間沒有了都沒有時間問了因為原能會之前出過很有名的性騷案新主委知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13598.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13617.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
內部細節不是很清楚你可以再去了解一下我們在這邊林議員都有看到我跟林議員還要求行政院要報告因為你們的性騷擾的相關規定沒有處理足為本人如果是性別歧視或者是性騷擾的行為人的話怎麼處理所以你們整個園農會性別意識可能真的有待加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13621.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13642.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
現在呢我之前預算都有請你們加強性騷擾防治我現在發現你們不是只有性騷擾防治性別平等意識從你們的性平小組你們給出的報告人家已經專業委員問了還不知道哪裡的問題真的非常的值得加強針對如何加強你們內部的性別平等意識可不可以一個月給我一個檢討報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13644.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13646.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
一級主管女性遠低於女性成員比核安會女性主管21%國園會女性主管20%員工33%女性1% |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13670.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13699.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
然後呢更誇張的事情你們的一級主管人家別的被行政院性評處管考的都是生喔你們的一級主管人數一年降下來就是75%降到38%降到21%你們的母數是19個主管欸可以越降越少欸為什麼呢好不容易做到女性一級主管的她們為什麼的百分比是越降越低低於她現在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13700.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13727.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
母數的比例啊主委你有沒有發現這件事情有有有有那個我跟委員報告那個我們最近其實還有一個副組長就是副處長的層級那麼其實他就是女性那麼我不曉得有沒有算在這裡面那麼其實我們在升等的時候其實有很嚴謹的這個制度啦因為我們最近剛搬過升等 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13728.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13748.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那麼我們會將來會來注意來注意喔那您知不知道行政院性別平等處在管考政府所有的委員會那有75%的委員會都達標了而且那個是高標40%喔那我們的核安會沒有達標你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13749.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13760.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
清楚我知道這個是大概我們會繼續來努力的會繼續來努力至少就一起主管那如果你有聽過西點原則你有沒有聽過 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13764.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13764.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
西點原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13794.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13794.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
第11屆第11屆第11屆第11屆第11屆第11屆第11屆第11屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13824.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13838.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
當然我是祝福您續任好不好那這個可不可以給我辦公室一個報告因為呢我去年在修應該是去年嗎核安會的組織法的時候你們的前劉副主委他還在嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13840.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13860.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
他退休了我當時說組織法要放三分之一性別比的時候他告訴我說行政院的目標對他們的要求是40%所以我們以40%為目標所以不需要定在那裡叫我支持所以呢顯然就是說你們是應付委員嘛講一講之後都沒有任何的做法是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13862.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13885.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我不清楚劉副主委說的那為了避免你們應付委員給我一個報告讓我可以繼續追蹤好嗎那這多久內可以給我一個報告這個如何逐步提升女性主管的比例因為我們如果要有女主委也要有歷練的過程嘛對不對好我們一個月好謝謝那個主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13892.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13892.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13912.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13926.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
請問主委您身為全國核能業務的最高主管機關總管國內的核電廠、核安設施的安全您認為核能安全問題是不是可以透過管理的手段來控制風險呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13928.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13950.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
一定程度一定程度所以你是覺得你是沒有辦法去控制這個風險的就在管理的這個方面他有一些的風險天災我問你是管理嗎如果你排除那當然是的是不是是不是可以透過管理的手段來控制呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13951.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13972.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
就是排除了天災人就是不能有人禍的意思人禍你有把握你能夠管理得當嗎是的 我們會在制度面上去完成那你認同核能是低碳能源是綠電嗎它是低碳能源綠電有不同的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13973.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13989.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
同時核能的一大功能是發電就你的專業知識你認為核能的發電成本比之於目前國內主要的燃氣發電成本是高還是低? |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13990.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14008.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
是低但是它有不同的效應核廢料的問題社會成本的問題所以您知道現在每一度核能電發電的成本是多少嗎大概是一塊多吧1.1那燃氣每一度電是多少你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14012.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14036.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
5塊多是再生能源 燃氣大概是3.19所以呢其實核能每一度電是燃氣發電的三分之一的價格然後是再生能源的五分之一的價格然而現在台灣的能源政策卻已經是政治凌駕於專業指引我們能源政策的 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14036.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14050.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
竟然是民進黨的非核檔綱而不是專業判斷基於此請問核安會主委您贊不贊同台灣應該重新檢討核能發電的政策呢?那個 呃 能源的政策主管機關是經濟部我當然知道我早上已經問過經濟部長我現在是問你啊你建不建議說我們應該重新檢討核能發電的政策呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14066.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14078.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
這個沒有簡單的答案所以我現在讓你回答呀對 這個不是yes or no那你願不願意本與你的專業建議執政的應該重新檢討飛橫政策呢這個應該不是我的權責啦我沒辦法建議那對於今年7月即將退役的核三廠主委你認為是否有可能研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14092.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14106.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
現在是7月27日執照屆滿按照目前大概就是到那個時候會停機所以就是他會如其演繹的意思你們目前沒有任何的規劃時間到會停止運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14112.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14122.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
所以對於我們現在的核電廠設備不管是核三廠或者是核四廠、核二廠你有沒有信心就是他們其實運作起來都是安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14123.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14149.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
每一個廠有不同的情況那個核三廠是現在在運轉所以它是運轉是安全的它的目前的運轉是安全的你覺得它有能力可以研議嗎對 但是它也牽扯到法規的問題所以你是認同它是有研議的能力它還有法規的問題是 就是除了法規之外我請教您的專業就您的專業核三廠研議是不是有能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14151.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14152.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14166.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14172.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ﹐解凍案二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ﹐解凍案二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ﹐解凍案二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ﹐解凍案二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ﹐解凍案二、審查113年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14189.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14193.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
〈台灣的騙子需要重新檢討反核政策〉〈台灣需要重新檢討反核政策〉 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14206.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14225.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
亞中人均耗電最高的地區但台灣的電力供應並沒有跟上腳步那民進黨極力推動的非核家園導致我們核電從2011年42百萬瓦降到2022年的24百萬瓦這一些您是贊成的嗎我問你啊 你贊成嗎 你贊成非核家園嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14235.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14243.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
核安會是獨立的安全的管制機關所以不適合用核或反核來做表態 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14246.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14264.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
當然最近昨天合作的董事長童子賢他同時也是民進黨新境界文教基金會的副董事長那董事長就是賴清德他近日發表演講的時候提到缺電他說他反核30年但是思想改變了他覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14265.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14285.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
全球暖化才是公敵核能不是所以他也改變了30年來的反核立場一個反核30年的人想法都會改變那國際上的潮流也興起重啟核能那最重要的是核能安全是可以透過管理來降低風險的現今上發生過 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14288.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14290.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
而這個電廠核災的幾乎都是管理問題導致諸位和安會就像你剛剛講的是一個獨立機構理應有專業的判斷專業的良心不然受到太多政治的影響這樣子的話政治凌駕於專業對於我們國家發展是絕對不利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14309.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14321.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
請用專業的良心在院會上建議民進黨、執政黨修正錯誤的能源政策,不應再以非核黨綱綁架台灣的能源政策。 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14334.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14362.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
好 那今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢另外有吳春城委員提出書面質詢關於今天的會議作為無下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢及相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答覆的部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14364.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14385.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
報告委員會 今天議程處理完畢 現在休息謝謝各位沒有講 沒講就沒講了 反正謝謝 謝謝而且我們爭美 我在台南沼川 台南還有李七島 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14395.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14395.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14431.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14431.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
公務預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14469.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14496.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
二、核能安全委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |