| IVOD_ID |
15840 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15840 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-24T08:32:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-24T13:51:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:18:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6851c34ab709cdaffb095600ace5e54deaf3be8d109af184be403dc02605edceb4b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴力防治法修正施行概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會就「非法網站創意私房案件，提出兒少性影像防制具體作為、檢討報告，並就兒童及少年性剝削防制條例修正方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】
【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:32:02 - 13:51:00 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1649.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1655.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
法定人數不足、人口不足、人口不足、人口不足、人口不足、人口不足、 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1680.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1690.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生� |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1707.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1729.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
網站創意私房案件提出兒少性影像防治具體作為檢討報告並就兒童及少年性剝削防治條例修正方向進行專題報告．並被質詢。以上議程採綜合詢答。現在介紹在場委員及列席官員陳昭芝委員林月琴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1731.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1756.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
王振旭委員、那今天列席的官員有衛生福利部薛瑞元部長、保護服務司張秀淵司長、心理健康司陳亮宇司長、社會及家庭署楊秀川組長、國家通訊傳播委員會網際網路傳播辦公室詹文旭主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1758.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1784.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
數位發展部資源管理司牛信仁司長、內政部警政署賈樂吉警政委員、法務部檢察司郭永發司長、主任檢察官朱華軍主任檢察官、文化部人文及出版司楊廷真司長、影視及流行音樂發展司吳怡璇司長、 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1786.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1802.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
金融監督管理委員會銀行局劉萬基組長、證券期貨局黃錫和組長、司法院少年級家事廳李坤玲副廳長、陸怡璇法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1807.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1822.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
徐淑芬法官、刑事廳朱家川法官。」接下來請衛福部薛部長就本日議程並案報告時間10分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1834.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1849.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主席、各位委員、女士、先生今天是大院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開的第13次全體委員會議本人呈邀列席報告深感榮幸之就 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1851.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1876.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴力防治法修正施行概況以及非法網站創意施法案件提出兒少性影像防治具體作為檢討報告並就兒童及少年性剝削防治條例修正方向等兩項議題提出專案報告,請各位不吝指教。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1877.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1897.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那第一個是有關於家暴零容忍也就是說112年家庭暴力防治法修正施行的一個概況那家庭暴力防治法修正的重點那是為了完善家庭暴力防治的措施那家庭暴力防治法部分條文修正案在 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1899.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1926.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
去年也就是112年12月6日經總統公布施行。修正重點包括周延民事保護令的保護措施跟效力,還有增訂家庭暴力被害人性影像之相關保護措施,強化為同居親密關係的暴力,同年遭受家庭暴力者的保護措施, |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1927.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1953.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
保障同性婚姻權益及擴大申請預防性羈押範圍等。」本部頁一規定來辦理家庭暴力防治法施行細則、行政機關執行保護令及處理家庭暴力案件辦法等研修作業目前正依行政程序法進行60日預告程序公告會到113年5月27日 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1957.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1976.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第二、家庭暴力防治工作的推動情形為落實家庭暴力防治工作本部結合相關部會督導各職校市縣市政府落實辦理112年提供家暴被害人各項保護輔助達182萬餘人次金額達到9億9千餘萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1982.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2005.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那針對高風險的案件,根據推動家庭暴力安全防護網計畫,透過落實危險評估及強化跨網絡的整合機制,有效來維護被害人的人身安全,為了強化加害人在 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2006.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2028.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
再犯的預防措施方面,為有效防止暴力行為的再發生。本法民事保護令的專章已經納進加爾文處議計畫的措施。依照司法院的統計,近三年各地方法院新收的申請案件大概是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2030.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2056.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一年有差不多3202件那核發的件數是18623件都是曾增加的趨勢那各地方法院平均終結一件民事保護令平均所需花費的這個天數大概是42.6天有逐年減少的趨勢那在核發的這個各款 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2059.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2076.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
9層以上的保護令會核發禁止施暴、騷擾、接觸、跟蹤等等的命令有3層會核發遠離令,能有效嚇阻加害人的暴力行為另外在刑事司法的作為部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2077.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2094.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
依照司法院近三年各地方法院刑事第一審違反本法案件被告的裁判結果家庭暴力罪每年平均大概是3825人違反保護令罪每年平均大概是2114人 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2097.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2107.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
另外一,法務部近三年的統計,犯家庭暴力罪每年平均約3027人,其中申請羈押者平均219人,佔7.2%。裁定羈押者平均186人,佔6.2%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2116.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2125.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
違反保護令罪者每年平均2595人,其中申請羈押者平均163人佔6.3%,裁定羈押者平均121人佔4.7%,顯示部分案件能透過羈押有效遏止嚴重暴力行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2139.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2168.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在提升社會大眾防暴意識的層面本部除了持續督促各直轄市縣市政府結合在地組織推動預防宣導的教育並辦理社區防暴人才的培力以及發展防暴社區認證制度希望能夠促進社區防暴工作的永續發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2171.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2186.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
二、有關於非法網站創意私房的案件,提出兒少性影響防治具體作為檢討報告,並就兒少性剝削條例的修正方向來作報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2187.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2216.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
有關創意私房案件已經引起各界質疑持有而少性向罪行者過低,先日接取行政處分及流程未能簡化的各種疑慮。」所以本部約於113年4月19日邀請司法院、法務部、內政部警政署、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會以及金融監督管理委員會召開本條例修法的方向會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2217.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2233.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
就擴大兒少性剝削的行為太陽、增訂、重製兒少性影像罪、沒有正當理由支付對價而持有兒童或少年的性影像罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2234.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2246.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
支付、兌價、關賞兒童或少年性癮向罪行提高持有兒少性癮向罪、支付、兌價、關賞兒少性交猥褻行為罪的刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2250.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2279.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
另外,還有增訂兒少性影像電子行政處分及下架實現、簡化通知及採取行政流程。增訂中央主管機關於必要時採限日接取的方式,遏止兒少性影像散播,以及增訂相關機關運用網路科技技術主動查查兒少性影像案件的方向來做研擬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2280.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2280.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
之役 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2281.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2310.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
為有效防止家庭暴力行為以及防止兒少遭性剝削、遏止兒少性影像散播等犯罪。本部秉持零容忍的態度,未來更需透過部會網絡合作的建構防護網。本部曾答應各委員指教及監督在此近日卸陳,並請各委員繼續予以支持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2317.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2338.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報現在開始詢答做以下宣告本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘練習委員4加1分鐘10點30分截止發言登記委員如有書面質詢請於散會前提出預期不受理暫定10點30分休息10分鐘原則上11點30分處理臨時提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2343.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2356.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
10點30分截止收案。」那現在請第一位登記的委員陳昭之委員發言。謝謝主席。有請薛部長。請薛部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2361.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2387.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
衛生福利部長,我把衛福部上個月的報告書跟檢察官的起訴書做了比對,那這個灰色的部分是衛福部報告書,紅色底的部分是檢察官的起訴書,那起訴書寫得非常的清楚,從9月1號到12月23號,將近4個月的時間,劉姓保姆和他的姊妹接連對卡開實行了很多的這個,做了很多額虐的行為,7月7號開始用指甲刮 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2389.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2408.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
凱凱的右頸部,在住家中捆綁凱凱,甚至把右腳踩入水桶,罰他裸體躺地上,用腳踹他、毆打他等等,導致凱凱脖子有撕裂傷,全身多處新舊不同程度的頓挫、擦傷痕,大血管塌陷,兩側額頂淤青,陰囊裂傷。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2413.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2423.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
多處遺傷皮下組織出血壞死以及血液裡面組織是淤積的身體甚至因為長期的捆綁導致四肢變形不對稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2426.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2448.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但是在兒扶社公司的報告中,僅簡略地記載了這個額頭淤青還有孩子比較安靜,那就連孩子掉了四顆牙他這個保姆變成是磨牙脫落的荒唐理由,社公司照單全收了那12月5號社工的約訪不成之後,保姆後續都用LINE跟電話來聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2452.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2457.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
回報社工沒有察覺異狀我覺得這都是因為所謂的保姆過去和兒童出養合作的經驗良好的信任但是其實衛福部早就有規定這種訪視是要用不約訪的方式就是不約訪的方式但是社工保姆在這次是多採約訪的方式所以他可能因此沒有辦法查到真相 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2477.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2503.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那沒有人否認第一線的社工的非常的辛苦但是我還是想問為何社工的訪視卻沒有對孩子身上產生這個瘀青等等有所警覺那我必須指出這個透過長期合作培養出來的所謂的信任感其實他是要接受這個外部機制的挑戰因為這種信任感到底是對孩子有利還是有害部長請問您覺得這個是個案還是系統性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2509.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2524.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這案子當然是一個個案,因為那麼沒有人性的人應該不會是同案的。但是剛剛委員所提到的這個所謂的這個互相信任,社工跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2526.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2553.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
事實上以這個案子來看的話也不到那種程度因為這一個流行保姆他有前後有收了三個小孩子的這個托育那其中一個是自費的那不是全日的稍後我也提到說保姆是因為保姆到底都是初次還是新手第一個也只不過我記得他兩三個月他就出養了所以事實上並沒有所謂的長期合作的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2554.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2559.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這信任感是沒有什麼理由的信任感這個之前質詢我有提到監察委員王美玉的報告那時候我有提到說其實這個裡面的內容報告很值得衛福部做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2570.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2589.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那這個報告中有指出2019到2011月額略事件失略者從當中可以看到看第一個保姆就是有關兒保安置保姆都列在其中那很遺憾的近年近期來這個保姆失略的這個案件層出不窮前幾天高雄五月大的男嬰頭部多處骨折 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2590.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2607.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
以及內商疑似保姆失孽,目前羈押中。2023年4月,基隆3歲孩子橫踩腹部長期施暴,最後肝臟破裂死亡。2022年底,台中1歲清水的小女嬰小桃子遭到保姆失孽,如累出血,併發缺氧性腦病變而身亡。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2610.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2628.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那涉案的許多保姆大多不是新手,都是已經照顧過很多孩子的保姆,所以我想提醒部長,保姆施暴是需要衛福部花更多的心力去了解,因為每個孩子都是寶貝,政府是不是應該更積極介入有一些機制淘汰不適任的保姆 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2630.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2649.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那聯合國有一個兒童權利公寓一直都呼籲孩子最需要的就是回歸到家庭或社區所以家外安置的優先次序是以親屬為優先其次是寄養家庭然後才是機構並且盡可能讓這個機構是小規模化部長你認為這個跟我們現況一致嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2652.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2679.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
事實上也差不多啦以目前來講的話當然就是說機構還有企業家庭部長覺得差不多部長對方向上面差不多我們的兒少全法實行系的第10條也有相關規定這個家外安置的數據第一個就是適當的親屬順位二就是與兒少有長期正向穩定依附關係的這個第三人等那部長請問您知道您覺得方向一致你知道我們親屬安置的比率嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2681.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2697.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
親屬安置的比例應該不是很高我讓部長知道安置在機構的孩子現在是六成百分之六十親屬安置只有百分之三而且安置在機構的小孩有一成多是六歲以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2698.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2726.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以我想不論是基於情理或法律規定甚至是國際這個兒童權利公約凱凱本來是應該在他所謂的長期正向穩定依附的關係的這位保母中讓他繼續待在那裡都是最好的方式何況這位保母也表示願意出養但是凱凱被永久的剝奪了這樣的一個機會我是報告部長部長請特別看一下這個序號21號我把它框起來你讀到這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2727.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2741.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
文字的時候真的令人心痛憤慨這個孩子的家庭他經過16次兒少保護通報脆弱家庭自殺防治有毒品前科還有酒駕等等通報我們的社會安全網根本沒有接觸他 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2742.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2768.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
有想過要接觸他嗎?還是我敢呢?我不知道這個孩子後續如何我很不敢再想下去也不願意想因為我不知道他會不會成為另外一個事實上已經離開人世的一個孩子那根據臺大這個劉淑彤教授研究從2011年這個這一張對到2016年有68件重大的惡孽事件其中四分之一的孩子過往有受暴食 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2769.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2790.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
在2019到2020年4月期間有43件重大額虐事件,其中5件不曾被通報,但是有38件雖然有進入政府相關的服務系統或利用了所謂福利資源,甚至多次被通報,但防務網終究沒有接觸他們,反而發生虐死或重大傷害的悲劇。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2792.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2812.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
所以部長我想說的是這兩個狀況必須趕快處理第一個就是通報的黑書第二個是通報後沒有及時的有效處理或追蹤有時候社工在家訪中因為他們可能誤評就是沒有正確的去評估所以沒有開案所以這兩個狀況是不是應該可以立刻進行檢討部長您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2813.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2837.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這我同意謝謝部長衛福部需要努力填補的漏洞還蠻多的許多專家學者都有指出國健署的六歲以下兒童死因回溯分析這個報告是非常好但是它沒有涵蓋所有死因的小孩缺乏針對兒、少、虐待事件的分析部分比較偏重公衛嘛因為是公衛角度去做當然公衛角度切度很好因為是從預防的角度去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2838.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2843.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那我想跟部長分享實務上會出現幾個狀況就是國健署有委託幾個縣市在做實驗計畫請各縣市提供個案並由各局處來做這個討論但是因為局處不會直接瞭解這個小孩子的情況所以能夠討論的成效其實是有限的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2854.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2874.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
二、有專家反映中央兒少權益小組討論時,能夠死因回溯報告中與兒虐的部分相對比較少。第三、優某縣市提出討論其中報告中有時候根本就沒有兒虐的部分,都是意外事件,所以讓參與者沒有機會就兒虐的部分來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2874.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2888.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
討論。」他的原因是額內的部分因為有另外的系統。有另外的系統。對。那部長我們看一下那個F專家,右邊下角這個F專家講的就是說要做一個額內案件的死亡根本原因分析,要花一個醫師跟一個專家30個小時的時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2891.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2920.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
所以因此做死亡這個根本原因分析其實要耗費很多資源那我也希望說衛福部跟國健署有這個認知就是說其實有時候資源要盤點然後做改善計畫那劉教授的研究報告另外研究報告也提到說可能因為害怕中央中央究責所以事實上地方呈報中央的這個報告當中有很多失真或不完整在這個過程當中可能長官都幾度修改所以部長與事實可能不符的這個檢討報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2921.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2937.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
有意義嗎?」這個就是請你瞭解有這個狀況,因為這個報告中都有指出那2020年南投縣一名4歲女童童童她遭遇母親男友虐殺致死那那個案件其實有很多的漏洞,包括社工物品一個另外一個漏洞就是轉診室醫師未輪期時發現這小朋友是有腦部傷勢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2940.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2960.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那當時衛福部的解釋是說因為沒有照會該醫院比較熟悉兒少議題的這個醫師啦真的很遺憾那我知道衛福部已經啟動了這個幼兒專責醫師制度不過我們上去看目前還是沒有空空的目前還沒有報相關報告那這個報告這個制度是不是能夠讓這個接觸額內案件的醫師們能夠熟悉兒少這個保護的議題是不是後續的成效醫師的涵蓋率也能夠請衛福部多努力的發報 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2969.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2991.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
而那個幼兒專責醫師的制度,即使只是另外提供一個篩選的一個制度,讓這一個如果出現額內的,多一道可以來早期把它發現的一個機制。謝謝部長,謝謝主席。好,謝謝。謝謝陳昭之委員。接下來請林月琴委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3001.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3004.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
有請我們的部長,請薛部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3012.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3038.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
部長早當然今天事實上是講家暴可是我覺得更為關心的是因為我們從一百年那時候有感受到少子化之後開始有一些的所謂的公共的托嬰中心甚至比較鼓勵保母來帶孩子那後來又推准工所以孩子越來越多事實上是進入到家外 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3038.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3045.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那家外我覺得事實上是政府責無旁貸家內當然我覺得還有很多要努力的下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3050.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3069.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以目前這樣看起來我想剛才我們的那個趙志偉委員也在提就是我們不斷不斷的有一兩起的這樣的發生有時候就是死亡不管是拖延中心或者是保母就承諾我講的我們孩子已經生得很少去年生到13萬5那一個都不能少的狀態裡邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3070.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3097.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
甚至只要更好。」如果一旦被暴力對待的話怎麼去回復他搞不好身心都是沒有辦法回復的所以我們的托嬰中心事實上和保姆數量是在成長當中因為這是政府的托嬰政策在鼓勵所以托嬰中心5年內成長了1.5倍那保姆也是往上揚的可是我們的施虐者事實上是保姆跟教師也成長了2.3倍也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3098.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3126.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
托嬰中心成長1.5倍,可是肆虐者事實上成長2到3倍。」這也是我想很多父母為之憂心的地方那在這邊也要提醒就是說我們還是分不出來這個保姆講的事實上是居家的保姆還是托嬰中心的因為他們都統稱托育人員可是你現在分的叫保姆一個叫教師這教師講的是托育人員因為托嬰中心稱的是托育人員所以不太照還是幼兒園的老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3127.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3155.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以是不是可以未來數據分流因為常常講說數據才能夠掌握問題如果數據不清楚的話就沒有辦法掌握問題下一頁那我們就來看保姆你怎麼從前面去管控一個失知的訓練裡邊126小時這樣的一個考照完全沒有額略的一個相關課程放在額哨權法裡邊反而事實上沒有辦法去對焦 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3156.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3175.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
在職訓練的九大類裡邊也是有相同的問題而且上這些課程的人事實上有沒有醫護背景可是從你們的辦法裡邊就知道他只要是在也就是說他在擔任訪視員擔任三年他基本上就可以來擔任課程的老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3176.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3203.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那他的背景經驗到底是什麼?所以有沒有針對於特別額略評估的課程需有醫護背景,或者是他有兒少保經驗的講師,而不是誰都可以上,沒有經過一個評估,這樣的老師都可以上課,因為你只有一個實務經驗三年就可以,他實務經驗是在做居家保姆的訪視工作,而且現在居家保姆的訪視員基本上沒有要求社工,沒有要求一些相關科系,所以呢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3204.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3226.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
大學畢業就可以進去。」那我們就有擔心說那這樣子會不會有一些問題下一頁那剛剛講的是保姆接下來我們就講訪視員訪視員的訓練也是這樣到底訪視員都上這些課程嗎?如果你已經弄出來是額內的評估的一些相關資能的話有課程的實施計畫都上嗎?就我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3228.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3256.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
政府部門事實上上半年度辦一場下半年度辦一場要滿足全國的訪視員是沒辦法地方不辦去年開始丟來地方辦地方結果他說他沒有財力辦最後也是中央辦中央辦全台灣有這麼多的訪視輔導員有沒有確保每天進門就要去看保護的孩子可是他沒有能力的話你怎麼可能去確保說他評估診斷是OK的還有我更為關鍵的失智背景到底是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3258.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3276.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
還有呢?課程內容誰規劃的?為什麼這樣提?因為在講居家安全的時候竟然有人老師是上命理我就不知道說今天流年很好就不會發生居家安全事情嗎?那就是課程的目標跟內容事實上是不太一樣的甚至當時標的物也是不太一樣的還有額略樣態有沒有統一?因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3279.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3308.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
始終我覺得政府已經很久了已經有做兒女的那為什麼每次到家外的時候我們在認定委員會要認定說這小孩子有沒有被虐待的時候常常沒辦法去做這個之前我們也跟保護師有提過就是說你有這麼多年的經驗為什麼不可以把兒女的一些不當對待樣態找出來而來讓各縣市政府可以有依據常常各縣市政府行文給我們的保護師這邊就說那你們自己裁處你們自己決定可是如果地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3309.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3329.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
如果事實上沒有這樣的能力的話,那怎麼去做這樣的一個採訪,最後還是影響到孩子的權益,下一頁所以整個課程應該去制定一些,如果我覺得衛福部本來就有兒科醫學會做的這樣的一個版本,我不知道為什麼都沒有去用,這也是我覺得很疑惑的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3330.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3358.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
再加上防治真的蠻重要的,我們看到額蒙的檢討報告蠻特別的,他說部分不適應的行為跟額逆行為是反應相仿,不易辨識,真的是這樣嗎?牙齒四顆掉了,然後指甲都拔了,然後還會說這個跟不適應的行為相仿,表示他沒有判斷的能力啊。報告還是呈現這樣的狀況,那怎麼可能作為未來去做改進呢?根本就是不太可能啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3360.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3365.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這個部分是不是應該邀請衛福部?我不知道部長這邊有沒有辦法做到? |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3367.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3395.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這需要長期來做,那第一個剛剛委員提到的其實很重要一點,但是我們可能之前沒有辦法去做得很好的,就是收集資料的精確性,然後要去做分析,你如果不重視data的話,你根本就找不出來問題在哪裡。是,期待部長,是不是我覺得能不能針對這件事情很看重, |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3395.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3420.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
一個孩子如果他有同年有負面經驗的話對他未來長大生很多疾病的可能性非常的高我必須提醒委員應該是期待衛福部不是期待部長謝謝部長就是那我覺得衛福部就是那可是現在你還是在任內那也是要你的指令下下去才有辦法做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3421.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3450.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那今天談了是不是就能夠接下來可以馬上跟進去做好下一頁防治問題事實上層出不窮這個我過去因為擔任過我們居家保姆的外度已經做了大概有10年常常碰到這樣的一個問題可是好像似乎都沒有人要去解決甚至今天保姆超收防治員防治兩三個小時還一直把他塞陽台然後你要強迫他開那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3451.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3462.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
房間門讓你進到陽台可是孩子滿頭大汗在陽台風險也非常高可是到底怎麼去做甚至有時候你收拖時間是晚上12點到凌晨一點防治院根本不可能在這個時間點 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3463.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3489.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
去防治、去看到小孩。」可是這都是在衛福部裡邊被允許的說這個時間點事實上是OK的還有一直都沒有辦法突破防治員就在底下管理員就是不讓他進去那今天我明明知道他有超收可是抱歉我就是不能進去那一直都為什麼不去突破大小管理條例這一塊然後使得反而每一次超收他把孩子移到鄰居家去之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3490.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3502.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
他再讓管理員開門才讓我進去那這樣子的話到底有沒有辦法解決沒有辦法解決啊所以我不知道是否可以用兒少全法70條來請各個單位配合還有這是很明顯的兒夢的這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3504.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3519.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
凱凱案是在下午時間,然後就說孩子睡眠輕鬆,所以呢精神不振,他早就精神不振了,可是你不是早上,你竟然是用下午時間,甚至孩子在下午睡覺的話,你根本也沒辦法看到孩子的樣態,所以,訪視員有沒有訪視的知能,怎麼會去選擇下午時間去訪視? |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3521.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3539.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
一定看到的不是真實的現象。」下一頁主席不好意思再給我兩分鐘那各縣是做法不一臺北市是祭典祭典可是有些東西很嚴重為什麼祭典我就不太瞭解因為按照我們的居家管理登記辦法裡邊本來就述明說 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3542.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3561.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
你如果訪視人員拒絕訪視的話,本來就要馬上去做處理,又扣兩分,扣兩分會怎麼樣?扣兩分不會怎麼樣?扣兩分只會是說還沒到達媒合暫停媒合三個月,媽媽找保姆幾乎都不是靠我們的居福中心媒合的,都是自己找的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3563.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3586.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
有用嗎?即便它達到5分、達到3分也沒有用。有一些縣市是開改善單,如果事實上是已經超收了,為什麼還可以改善單?繼續讓它改善,繼續超收嗎?那我就不太懂,各縣市到底我們的衛福部有沒有掌握管理方式不一?臺北市採扣分子、新北市凱券導單 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3587.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3603.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那中央有沒有統一的標準怎麼做有的是要去輔導三次都已經超收了甚至呢收託未回報這些東西都沒有甚至環境很糟抱歉就是一直勸導勸導那他勸導不改善你能怎麼辦繼續讓再勸導嗎所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3606.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3624.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
請衛福部是不是統一把這所有的縣市政府做的方式能夠瞭解那下一頁再下一頁針對保姆大家主張這幾個就是我們的施肢背景還有建立我們的額內樣態定期更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3625.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3638.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
還有我們一定要有訓練專業性還有是不是可以解決防治員的困境收集及彙整資料之後才一一去解決該修法的就修法下一頁新剝削這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3639.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3668.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
希望你們民定主管機關的全責不要都是讓大家看起來媽媽叫真的師兄弟去掃地的時候最後大家都沒掃地啦就大家都會在做推脫的狀態是不是可以民定事業主管機關比照兒少全法跟我們性階段犯罪防治法這樣子去做還有強化我們的偵查能量有個專責機構去增訂性影像的資料庫的系統才有辦法比對然後呢偵查到犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3669.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3693.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
民定主管機關立即時間性限制閱覽與移除通知的權限,懲罰一定要對於有支付金額購買性的剝削內容的網站會員。有急迫性的話,請速度快一點止血,能夠增加緊急資訊的限制規定。」以上,謝謝。好,謝謝。好,謝謝林月琴委員。接下來請陳金輝委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3703.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3709.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
主席各位委員各位官員大家早安我請也請薛部長請薛部長對部長您上週早安部長您上週說您要回歸到我們的醫療了嘛所以大家也都非常祝福你也很歡迎你但今天呢還是有很多議題是許多相關團體想要關切當然今天是談論兒少議題可是我還是想幫他們請命一下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3732.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3756.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
因為部長也要回到醫院了所以您知道說醫院對於這個用電量是24小時也千呼了醫療品質嘛不管是急診或是手術室因此您最近雖然宣布說會補助地區醫院的電費但其他的醫院目前是叫苦連天也很希望本席在這邊為他們傳達對比如說像新光醫院他們自己統計起來雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3759.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3774.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
衛福部這邊說電費只佔他們的一兩趴但新光醫院自己統計起來可能高達數千萬每年會增加數千萬他們過去的兩年又因為這個健保點值0.8、0.7必須要大幅的加薪衛留醫療人員那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3777.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3796.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這個狀況的話他們是很希望說如果可以的話是不是由部長這邊來承諾因為他們也很擔心換了新任的部長沒有辦法延續您的議制是不是部長這邊來承諾你還是會落實這個點子的撥補還有電費可不可以全面的醫療院所都可以停動長 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3798.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3821.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
二、邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3824.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3844.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
衛福部沒有這個預算也沒有做這方面的一個決策據我所知是行政院那邊因為會有一千億要撥給台電希望是從那裡面的話去支應之前的話是提到說地區院可能會這個調整的店會可能會從那邊去做補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3848.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3861.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
可是區域醫院、醫學中心沒有談到但是這個事情大概就是會在整體行政院這個一千億怎麼樣撥下去的時候去討論我們會繼續以提案的方式來進行那也辛苦部長因為部長過去這 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3870.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3894.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
一個會期可能經歷了食安、社會安全網、家暴等等的但也有很多重大的政策是需要您繼續幫忙延續下去的之前您曾經這個執政黨的立委詢問您人工生殖法進程說拼上半年要把草案送進立院所以也經歷了三次公聽會包括這個委員會有一次您還有要繼續進行公聽會嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3896.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3912.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
還是專家會議?最近也有。公平會議應該已經結束了。那目前的話,大概就是做一些整理之後的話,我們預計,因為還要經過法規會,法規會還要一次。法規會這一次的話應該在下個禮拜會舉行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3913.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3937.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
然後之後的話我們就開始預告就會開始預告因為您去年有提到說這個版本是會有代理孕母的所以應該也還是會把這些女單啊、同性還有代理孕母都涵蓋進去是嗎?對,我們會把整體的可能的這一些範圍的通通會放在我們的草案裡面然後我們會經過預告之後那送行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3937.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3956.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
好,那因為你也覺得立法院是一個民意匯集的地方,我也希望您之後送出來的草案是一個最完整的版本,然後讓我們放到這邊來討論,讓我們來審議它,如果之後必須要拿掉一些爭議性大的部分,也是我們民意的展現,這樣子好嗎?是,我也希望這樣子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3958.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3972.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
再來呢我想看一下這個兒少保護案件我們部長你這個以你聽過的這個經驗第一線的人員反應如果有家暴通報的時候警察會不會一起到現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3974.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4000.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
沒有說每一件都會那如果是兒保的案件呢?也是一樣就是說通報之後的話那以法規上面或者是說實務上面的話都是是需要好我們這邊有收到基層的社工人員反映說他們在處理脆弱家庭兒保案件的時候比如說不當管教性侵害脆弱家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4001.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4023.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
不一定可以得到警察協助或者是他們請警察來陪同可是警察往往覺得自己只是陪同甚至請他們進入暗家的時候走在前面自己跟在後面這樣子非常的奇怪我們可以看左右兩邊的法規左邊是家暴右邊是兒保家暴是很明文的可以請求警察的保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4024.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4045.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
右邊的話呢是訪視顯有困難或者是這個刑方不明再來請求是不是警察可以一同協助但是其實呢針對第一線的社工反應像右邊啊第一個是食用毒品第二個是當女陪侍也就是陪酒嘛等等其實這些非常複雜的家庭對於剛畢業尤其是很單純的社工人員來說都是一個很複雜害怕的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4053.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4059.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
所以也想在這邊問部長是不是可以在兒少全法大修的時候把這些意見一起納進去呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4062.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4088.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這個當然以社工或是說衛福部的角度的話我們也希望就是說進去這種比較高風險的場所去做這個兒少保護的工作的時候希望是有警察但是也要考慮到警察的那個人力量能的問題所以你有什麼具體的建議可以讓警政陪同社政這件事情可以把它法制化 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4089.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4111.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這部分的話還是需要有一些分析啦其實就是說哪一類的案件類型在什麼樣的一個場所是就是說比較容易會有問題所以您的意思是說之後您會在兒保的這邊把不同的狀況再細分哪一些具體可以請求警察的保護是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4112.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4137.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
就是說他等於是有分高低風險哪一類高風險的案子的話那就是請求警察保護他們都就好謝謝因為我們也不希望社工人員再繼續這樣流失下去了這邊也請確認部長的態度您會不會覺得所謂的預防才是建立兒少保護網的起點也是重要的核心概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4138.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4160.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個是沒有錯啦但是這個預防講是比較容易啦那事實上要做的話是相當的困難好那我們回顧一下上週的新聞齁您在4月14號這一天呢因為未還委員會有許許多多朝野的立委一再的督促您才承諾在當天的下午發文說請數位部將創意私房封網同時媒體也很關切說但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4166.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4190.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
如何可以尋查尋查這些人力嗎?從哪裡來嗎?當時當天下午你也說因為現在有人力的問題所以我沒有辦法定期的去尋查因此你說會委外處理是嗎?這部分的話應該一方面來講的話我們需要有一個法律授權是比較做起來會比較順那第二個就是說我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4191.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4208.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
其實現在應該是法務部那邊有一個科技偵查法那已經在行政院裡面了那如果說那個法通過的話那就有法律的授權所以其實您4月11說要委外那個是在過渡期 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4209.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4236.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
所以你有要開標嗎目前正在朝你那一個那個這個招標招標對因為我從4月11至今用您講的關鍵字還有所有衛福部開標都沒有查到這一類的業務現在網路上也許有很多這個義勇軍很關心而受保護的很想要來做這件事情可是你遲遲都沒有進度啊可能我們兩個在聊天的這個時候又有人受害了 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4238.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4257.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這我們會盡快啦,因為這個事情還是有一定的程度你能夠大概告訴我們這個招標公告什麼時候會出來嗎?這個我倒沒有辦法說現在馬上去回答這個問題啦可能至少也要將近一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4260.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4281.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
一個月這也許不是很符合人民的期待啊所以我本席會再演你一下因為第一個要有這種技術那這種技術要實際上要怎麼樣執行的話我們必須要跟一些業界的專家一起去做討論才知道說那一個招標的規格要怎麼樣去寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4283.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4300.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
所以這個可能不是那麼快好一個月再來呢最後昨天網路上有非常多人關心這件事情因為憲法法庭針對死刑是否違憲進行了辯論法務部也有提出他們法務部的立場他們認為說現在如果貿然的這個釋憲的話可能會引發國內社會對立跟衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4306.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4328.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那剛剛也有聽到說其他兩位委員他們在講這個兒虐的案件這些受害人呢他跟我們大部分的受害人也許不太一樣因為他們是手無伏擊之力而且是非常的弱勢尤其是像凱凱最後一分鐘對尤其是像凱凱他是在很慢性的過程中被虐死的好我們會看到這個兒少性剝削隨便 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4331.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4353.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
翻閱33條、34條、35條、36條、37條在這些違反意願的性剝削還有性侵害、猥褻等等的用強迫脅迫藥物催眠這些都會以未來的死刑相關所以假使說憲法法庭釋憲的話呢我們就要去修改這些兒少性剝削的 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4354.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4371.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
法律所以我也想看您很特別是站在法律人的立場也站在我們兒少保護的醫師的立場所以您對於這樣子的看法是什麼角度呢當然這種兒少性剝削的這種犯罪的話那應該是要加強他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4375.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4391.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
處罰的程度,但是跟實行是否不一定有直接關係,看是不是要處以實踐,因為從我的理解來講的話,兒少性剝削條例裡面的刑法應該不至於定刀, |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4392.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4399.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那邊實行那邊因為刑法就已經有刑法就已經有所以不一定需要再去訂這個是會有所謂的當時在危險時代的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4410.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4434.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那些唯一死刑後來會被取消的原因是在這個地方但是死刑是否應該仍然維持這個還是要整體的判斷所以我個人的意見大概這方面的話我不表示意見這半年來其實大家對於這些額虐案件是非常的憤慨所以我也在這邊希望部長可以跟我們大部分主流的民意站在一起謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4438.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4465.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
好謝謝陳景輝委員接下來請廖偉祥委員發言謝謝主席那這次呢比較特別有請我們NCC速發部、警政署跟法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4467.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4476.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
請書發部牛司長還有內政部警政署賈樂吉警政委員還有法務部郭司長你們好因為很難得在我們未還委員會可以遇到我們打詐國家隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4491.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4514.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
所以想要先趁這個機會來請教你們我想請教NCC你們近期公布這個電信管理法那有關於這個電信事業用戶號碼使用管理的辦法規定我們一類電信業者跟我們二類的MVNO電信各有這個KYC的規定和法則對嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4516.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4538.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
報告委員,我嘗試回答委員的問題,因為今天我不是業管單位的主管,所以我嘗試回答委員的問題。因為電信號碼曾經被濫用,所以我們加強管理,經過行政院在 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4539.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4557.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
將跟數位部重新分工,把電信號碼的管理使用管理再劃歸NCC,所以NCC在前一陣子訂了那個委員剛才提到的那個號碼使用管理辦法,然後加強電信業者做KYC |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4559.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4563.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
二類電信業者與一類電信業者買門號上限與管制年初到現在總量有掌握嗎?業者有私下透露到現在為止還是可以大量取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4581.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4610.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
好,那我想要再請教NCC,你們去年7月聲稱這個未經實名制的黑美卡將無法在台上網,到目前為止你們查辦的進度如何?這一部分是也跟那個一些電商業者有在進行做一些處理那也請那個數位部產業署有加強處理,就是電商這部分那電信主要是針對第一類電信業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4611.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4627.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那我們請他們針對那個門號的部分要加強管制因為現在已經沒有第二類電信事業這種登記所以只剩下那個幾大電信公司我直接講啊其實你們查辦的進度就是鬼扯 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4628.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4649.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
因為現在只要Google就可以看到還是標榜不記名免登記免證件隨插即用均有現貨而且我告訴你現在的廠商非常嘴砲他在首頁直接刊登了所謂的重要公告他在裡面就直接嗆名根據NCC的最新要求某些臺灣上網卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4650.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4673.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
漫遊卡、黑媒卡需要開始實名制,然而隨著臺灣總統大選的落幕,有了新的發展,也就是2024年1月13日電信公司發布最新聲明,宣布撤銷對臺灣漫遊上網卡的實名政策,恢復到正常運營狀態,也就是SIM卡直接插入手機自動開通 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4675.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4685.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以原本因臨時的實名制政策無法使用的用戶可以直接忽略簡訊上要求實名制的內容網卡都是隨插即用廠商直接嗆名我想請問這個內容是否屬實? |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4689.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4712.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這個應該不是事實可能是誇大宣傳不過NCC會加強這些那個執法的力道這是一定的而且他們還直接嗆喔因為這些政策導變來變去導致他們蝦品的賣場獲得一堆負評他們也是非常無奈我們也不明白NCC是否要全面實名制為什麼只實施了10天的實名制又馬上取消所以你剛剛說這不是事實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4713.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4742.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
不是事實的話我跟你說我手上這張黑莓卡就是網路上買到的我這張就是網路上買到的卡片所以還不是事實嗎代表你們沒有真的好好的管制對不對那個NCC一定會那個強力來施法啦所以我告訴你我現在買到這個不用實名制的東西就是在告訴你們你們去年7月宣誓的內容根本就是狗屁嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4743.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4751.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
就是根本沒有監管啊,所以我才買得到啊,而且Google排名還第一位所以我想要問喔,這個打炸國家隊到底在幹嘛?你們有人可以回應一下嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4755.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4782.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
打詐國家隊是在行政院層級,由各部會來...對,但是我剛針對這個NCC的事情就已經出現這樣的狀況,這不就是源頭管制嗎?我會回去報告,就是會請同仁到委員的辦公室了解那個是怎麼取得...所以我要告訴你們打詐國家隊還有NCC消極不作為,你們就是打詐的豬隊友 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4784.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4805.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
連你們NCC的前委員這個蕭齊鴻自己就是詐騙集團的幫兇就是詐騙集團的顧問他利用人脈還帶二類電信業者取得門號還叫他們用黑美卡製造斷點製造斷點也就是剛剛這種啊他不需要實名不用證證然後拔掉就無法追蹤難以追查的SIM卡所以這個政策轉彎是誰決定有誰定調啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4809.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4836.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
好你回答不出來我就直接講好了沒有轉彎只是執行不力加強但是執行不力所以我說你們NCC只要多管一點多做一點法官根本不會有詐騙案海的淹沒的問題我們最近可以看到這個法官都已經壓力大到墜樓連辦台版的這個檢查這個柬埔寨案的法官傳訊息的說 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4838.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4844.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我愛你抱歉要離開你了請問你們知道嗎?你們看到這個訊息我想請問法務部你們NCC打炸國家隊不會覺得心痛嗎?跟委員說明齁那個其實法務部檢察官的這個業務量其實比法官還來得多因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4858.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4885.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我們起訴過去的案子百分之八十幾乎都在檢察官手頭上處理掉了所以當然對於這個法官墜樓這件事情我們也深感遺憾痛心自己這個系出同盟雖然後面分家了兄弟各自登山各自努力但是我們仍然感到非常的可以感同身受所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4886.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4911.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
在檢方這一塊我們就盡量的這一個用這一個包括我們科證法的一個修訂、洗房法以及這個不是我覺得剛剛聽起來就是我剛剛覺得有點好笑就是你剛剛說就像說檢察官的量還是大比法官多啊你覺得這個很無奈好我要告訴你的事情就是整體的量都非常的大詐騙的量就是非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4912.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4940.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
比去年增加了非常的多,不管從檢調、警察、基層員警都是一樣所以導致到現在源頭你們打詐國家隊的源頭搞不定人家壓力大到墜樓然後工作勞累那你NCC的委員不做事就算了還領這個詐騙集團的錢當詐騙集團的幫兇技術指導這讓我們人民怎麼信任啊另外警政署、訴發部也都在我想要請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4942.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4946.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
你們的這個警示帳戶聯防通報的子系統現在串聯哪些電信業者跟銀行 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4952.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4972.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4974.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5000.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
數位化的部分進展還沒完整。」那我要問你們警政署喔你們掌握該平台這個的問題有沒有遇到覺得很難用的部分想請教數發部有沒有修正了你們兩個一起回答好了報告委員好因為這個部分其實在電子警視帳戶的部分目前為止我們的所謂的產業署在處理這方面我就是請產業署的同仁回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5004.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5025.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
報告委員,我們現在目前來講的話,速發部主要是業管所謂的第三方支付業者,還有所謂的電商,那目前來講的話,我們已經找了,因為我們第三方業者有做這個能量登錄,那能量登錄進來的業者裡面,我們大概有現在通過有40幾家,我們會把那40幾家的一些通報平台大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5025.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5052.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
串在一起。」就是說他包括我們現在再把這個平台架上去就是說這個第三方業者背後搭配的一些銀行是什麼沒關係我跟你講這個系統同報紙系統我跟基層的員警有溝通過目前有遇到這下列的問題請你們好好的回去檢討一個外籍受處分人也就是外國人他的身份證號輸入因為無統一規定要輸入護照號碼的身份證號導致系統判定是不同的案件無法併案 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5053.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5064.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
你知道嗎?知道 這個問題有反映過要以身份證字號就一個那你們改善了嗎?目前已經通報改善了已經完成改善了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5066.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5088.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
還在處理中所以還沒改善好我告訴你這就是基層員警遇到的問題他們很痛苦原諒很大再來外籍系統事辦期間變成登載系統要傳真給銀行例如統一案要設8個不同銀行就要與8個銀行溝通而且是傳真萬一遇到銀行端設備問題一個案件要搞好幾個小時平常業務都不用做工時還要更長 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5089.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5109.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
再來,系統沒有跟165系統連動,尋找被害人的資料要上165下載,還要在再行上傳告誡系統,甚至卷宗還要分一頁一頁上傳,你們覺得這樣子夠數位、夠科技、夠多元宇宙嗎?我們覺得是不夠,所以我們這部分已經在花包了,這部分我們自信是已經認為今天這個真的是一個問題,所以我們已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5113.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5128.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
所以你們打詐國家隊搞到現在整個報案流程還在搞傳真系統還會當機然後銀行收到通知在執行我跟你講這車手都可以把錢領走了這些問題可不可以回去確實的檢討請我們打詐國家隊的五個兄弟好好的檢討好謝謝好謝謝呃廖偉祥委員接下來請邱振軍委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5149.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5159.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
主席好,我們先請我們法務部我們的郭司長請法務部檢察司郭司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5165.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5184.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
國事長好我請問一下我們昨天這個執行的這個視線辯論扣除需要迴避的三位大法官其餘12位裡面有7位大法官支持廢死那在台灣呢有超過八成的民眾是反對廢死的 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5185.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5209.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
假設大法官釋憲,結果與民意不符,法務部接下來的動作會是什麼?跟委員報告,法務部很堅決地認為,這個有關於廢死的議題,應該交由國會來決定。那如果這個...因為大法官...因你們專業的角度來看呢?是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5210.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5225.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
因為這個判決還沒有辦到了大概應該7到9月份才出來在還沒有判決出來之前我們實在無法預測到底憲法法庭會做怎麼樣一個決定那以你個人的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5227.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5250.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
更委員報告,這個我個人是在不方便在這個場合我覺得我們是支持維持死刑但是我也支持就是在判決的時候我們能夠更嚴謹我覺得當然人權基本的人權要保護當然我們更要給被害者的家屬一個交代當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5252.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5281.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
如果維持死刑的話當然我個人認為對於犯罪的部分能夠有效的有部分的一個賀紙您支持嗎?我支持那我們再請一下我們這個衛福部我們薛部長你那個鎮市長您等一下部長好上次本席形容的部長跟法務部可能沒什麼感覺我們先看一下影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5287.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5314.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
不是對中間連鞋子都掉了奮力站起來卻又不受控的一屁股跌坐倒地如同殭屍般的詭異行為引起民眾圍觀另一段同樣來自中國的畫面長髮熱褲妹成了對折人躺在地上扭來扭去原來他們都是上頭電子煙的影君子 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5319.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5334.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
獨品危害防治條例第二條第一項的規定,獨品包含對社會危害性的麻醉藥品及其製品。」那部長我想請問一下,依托米子是據本席了解它是屬於管制的麻醉藥品對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5335.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5360.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
目前還沒有列進去但是他是有一個有藥證的麻醉藥你們回去之後瞭解他還不是就對了所以這個5月9號我們會送管制藥品審議委員會他是定期開會我們會送到他那邊去做一個決定那如果他是符合就是說委員會裡面大家同意的話他就會列為管制藥品 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5361.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5384.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
列為管制藥品之後的話,我們就會再請那部長您覺得他對人體有沒有傷害?他對人體當然你如果說像這樣長期在用的話那會有傷害但是他也有醫療的用途就是說做一個短效的一個麻醉對我們知道馬飛他也是有醫療的用途對不對?但是他還是受控制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5385.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5407.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
所以我覺得部長你回去之後我希望你們能夠盡快的將這個部分能夠納入我們的討論的一個議題那更希望能夠盡快的來管制做一個有效的一個管制因為我們每三個月我知道我們毒品審議委員會每三個月都會定期的來檢討那下一次是什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5411.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5427.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
跟委員說明,我們毒品審議委員會我記得是上個月有開過,因為我們上個月開一次,應該是在現在4月份,大概7、8月份吧。好,那本席在這邊就要求啦,將伊托米子加入審查內容可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5429.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5456.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這也跟委報告我剛剛有報告過五月的時候我們就會進入管制藥品的這個審議委員會如果它略為管制藥品也就是說它在某種情形之下可以做藥但是它必須要嚴格監管那這個時候就會提到法務部的這個毒品審議好那我這樣子除了這個剛剛一堆米子的部分我也希望法務部我們的K他命的這個分級的檢討一併納入可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5459.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5478.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
謝謝委員提醒我們這個會在這個獨品審議委員會裡面提出因為我們才合一致我們就請委員討論這樣子我知道你們考慮很多當然過去我們某位部長級的官員也曾經提到如果中南部學校全校學生抓去驗尿 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5480.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5494.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
恐怕許多的學校要關門如果以這種立場我本席真的非常的不認同我想國家是未來的小朋友是這個年輕人是我們國家未來的一個主人翁我們更加要好好的保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5495.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5513.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那當然也要表現我們政府對於這個反毒的決心我希望我們法務部、衛福部還有內政部、我們警政署與教育部要做好跨部會的這個橫向的一個聯繫像我看到我們現在看這個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5514.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5534.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我們每一年都有一個通報的一個機制那108年我看108年到112年這當中每一次學校安全通報的濫用藥物的這個案件跟警政署通報的就有一個落差我想請警政署這邊也來說明一下這是為什麼警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5554.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5581.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
邱委員好那這些通報的一個差距因為我們我們在數字有兩個系統所以在受理跟入案之間就會本來就會有一個猶豫期間所以它出來的一個數字一定不會相同如果數字在一定的期間之內我們大概都可以容許但是我這樣看起來幾乎都差了三分之一啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5583.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5608.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
多了大概三分之一以上我要強調就是說我們學校跟警政署掌握的數據不太一樣的原因當然就是橫向的聯繫不足就是我們沒有有效的跟學校保持一個聯繫學校也沒有辦法跟警政署這邊保持一個很好的溝通導致於我們這個數據不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5611.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5628.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
這有可能啦,這可能性也很高,那這部分我們已經加強少年隊跟學校之間的一個聯繫,而且現在學校部也蠻主動的,跟以往的概念不一樣,所以他們也蠻主動的來那我請問警政署,我看到這個數據每一年都有在下降,對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5629.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5642.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
您認為K他命跟這些毒品的在校園犯這個案子是因為我們學校查得好還是因為我們現在的做法是對的所以它逐年下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5643.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5671.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
應該都有這兩項都是雙管齊下的因為學校這部分真的比較正視這個問題了但是為什麼我覺得還是那個還是蠻氾濫的還是沒有下降用毒的人反而更多是這可能是單一事件的影響的一個渲染效果您認為這個數字跟我們的這個比如說K他命好了他因為毒品的分級制他是列三級你覺得跟這個有關嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5673.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5699.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
在青少年使用的時候,他們不會分這麼清楚,他們是以自己取得的方式...對,但是警政署這邊辦案的話,他會不會因為他只是三級毒品而不太去訴訟?不會。我覺得會。您相信嗎?我改天拿數據給你們看。謝謝。對不對?因為警察每一個人他們都要有一個績效。 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5702.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5716.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
當我們警政署給他們一個標準的時候他們當然是照著那個分數有績效的去做當沒有這個警政署沒有在注意這件事情的時候他當然就當然有碰到當然就一定會做只是他的重點不會放在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5717.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5740.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
你懂我意思嗎?所以我不認為這數據是可以參考的啦可以是對的啦所以我希望我們警政署跟我們學校這邊能夠做好一個有效的一個溝通這樣可以嗎?因為時間好像也到了我大概再問一下那個市長請回我再問一下衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5742.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5769.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們今年年初我們有一個優化偏鄉醫療精進計畫這一個部分那今年年初我們苗栗18個鄉鎮市有9個衛生所醫生出缺比例高達50%凸顯我們苗栗縣的衛生所的醫師嚴重不足因此本席對於優化偏鄉醫療精進做法非常的期待不過目前我們只看到一張計畫的大網看不到詳細的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5771.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5796.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這部分的話因為行政院應該是剛剛才核定才核定那我這樣講因為時間不太夠這部分我改天再來問你我也希望說部長能夠多重視一下這個偏鄉醫療不足的問題當然所以我們才提這個計畫好謝謝部長好謝謝我們謝謝我們的邱振軍委員接下來請王育民委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5804.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5820.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
好謝謝主席我們請部長部長好部長好部長你現在心情有很輕鬆嗎要來立法院都不會很輕鬆都不會很輕鬆 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5822.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5836.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
好,那個我想請問你,您對於這個要接任的邱太元部長,你自己要不要專業比一比?你覺得你的專業比較強還是他專業比較強?沒有啦,這無從比較啦。無從比較?不敢比較還是無從比較?不敢比較。 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5837.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5860.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
本期是覺得你還蠻認真的就是什麼事情你都認真以待這是一個非常好的特質我當然希望新任的部長也有像你一般的認真才扛得起衛福部這麼大的一個部門因為衛福部的事情真的非常多那本期首先還是要追一下那個保齡事件我覺得保齡事件現在會不會變成無頭公案怎麼到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5862.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5887.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
一度傳出警方說有重大發現結果又無疾而終又沒消沒息那這個案件到目前為止他是非常重大的死案事件從3月到現在已經通報35人兩人死亡4個人在家戶病房而這4個人的狀況還不見得很樂觀那這麼重大的一個死案事件到目前為止方克烈酸源頭在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5888.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5906.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
完全沒有辦法給外界的交代一個多月了,到底現在卡在哪裡?部長目前的話衛福部這邊能調查大概已經都調查完畢了最後的話就是實際上在運作的那個廚師當時是怎麼樣做的那因為這個是檢察機關在調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5913.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5934.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
檢察官並沒有把這個訊息透露給我們所以我們也不從知道所以現在大概就最後的這個偵查的階段我們也希望說那個檢察機關如果偵查結束之後那看看是否起訴不起訴等等的話就能夠把案情是比較明朗化 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5935.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5957.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
本席覺得在這麼重大的事件的偵辦過程當中衛福部作為主管機關但是檢調方面一方面他去了解的那種跟你們沒有辦法一起合作然後一起去針對這些原因反覆的大家去探討這個是不是有什麼問題啊因為你這樣等於是你兩個是完全脫鉤你完全沒有辦法掌握這個到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5958.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5971.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
可能的原因。」那他沒有再回來跟你做一些核對嗎?因為這個偵查不公開,如果說檢方沒有主動要把訊息釋出的話,我們也無從去詢問。今天法務部有人來對不對?檢察司、國司長? |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5974.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5998.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我覺得這樣子針對一個重大案件應該是要通力合作吧現在看起來就是各負責一邊然後拼湊不出來這個圖像沒辦法給國人交代市長你了解嗎?這個案件現在的最新狀況?跟委員報告這個隔岸之暴零案子現在分別為由一個臺北地檢跟士林檢察官在偵辦那士林檢察官因為那一邊是有死亡案子他有香菸案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5999.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6028.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那不管怎麼講它都是一個偵查案件那偵查案件就如同剛剛部長講的因為那個涉及到偵查秘密的一個問題那當然檢察官在偵查的一個作為包括鑑定、包括這個剛剛委員提問的有關於毒品的這些可能污染源在哪裡對,幫黑獵山的源頭在哪裡其實這個都會跟衛福部這邊可能會有所聯繫啊因為那個是個案個案的偵查細節如何我們法部其實是不方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6028.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6057.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
進去去問他了。」那這個部分你的台高檢署也督導在偵辦著對,我要問的是邦克列酸的那個源頭是什麼其實不是要問個案的細節而這個部分我覺得應該是跨部會你們都有責任好好的去偵辦而不是一句說偵辦中然後好像就沒事了然後各做各的我覺得這樣子要找出這個源頭應該是蠻困難因為到目前為止一個多月過去了拼湊不出這個圖像也沒有辦法給國人一個交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6058.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6076.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這個是法務部你們應該回過頭去檢討你們常常一句說個案偵查不公開然後好像所有的人就不可以再往下去了解所有的內容我覺得這樣好像是不對這件事情是食安事件我們要了解的是那個源頭這個不是涉及到個人的刑事案件這個這應該不太一樣吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6078.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6103.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
跟委員報告因為這個偵查這一個部分一定會跟衛福部合作是啊,那有嗎?你們兩邊有兜嗎?部長你有得到法務部的訊息嗎?沒有,有關於這一些說科學證據等等這些的話那雙方是有聯繫所以這部分的話我們大概都已經把資料給檢方啦當然檢方所調查就是那個個人的選委之前沒有回饋給我們啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6106.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6122.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我覺得這一件事情你們還要再去檢討就是全國民眾在等真正的原因是什麼結果現在快要變無頭公安了就是不知道到底是什麼我也希望法務部你們加快好不好這個是一個全國高度矚目的食安案件不是環辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6123.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6137.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
就是要趕快用你們團隊的量好好去偵辦好不好趕快給國人一個交代這個是關乎到國人食安非常重要的另外一個回到今天家暴的議題這個我們是請今天司法院也有代表來副廳長嗎李副廳長 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6141.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6164.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
這個近三年來這一些保護令的核發件數跟駁回比例我們可以看到在這個駁回比例的部分是有升高的情況那照道理來講這一些保護的案件當事人可能他就是覺得很有需求才去申請保護令結果到了司法院之後你們駁回你們有去分析你們駁回的原因是什麼嗎你看112年有高達6000多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6168.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6176.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
如果說他是應該保護而被你們駁回那這個受害者他的保護應該要怎麼去落實?這個你們有進一步去了解嗎?好 謝謝委員跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6181.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6201.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那那個法官在在審理法官或是司法事務官在審理這個保護令的事件的時候他依照我們的規定還有我們的法律的證據去判斷符不符合如果符合就應該要核發如果不符合當然不符合要件當然就會駁回那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6202.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6217.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這進段法院就一律是要看他所提出的市民的證據夠不夠達到這個合法的必要性那還有合法的內容是哪一類型的相似的那個保護令的內容來據以保護被害人而不受再繼續受到家庭暴力 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6218.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6237.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
但是他現在看起來駁回的案件數有增加的情況比例也是增加的情況你們有沒有去探究是什麼樣的原因這當中會不會有即使是個別法官認定的這個標準寬鬆不一的然後本來應該要核發但是因為他比較嚴格所以他就駁回你再看下一張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6239.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6253.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這個112年各地方的這個保護令的核發力看起來是很不一致的你可以看到有這種72%的也有這種在這個澎湖只有47%的這個整個的這個落差你們有去探究嗎?各縣市執行狀況不一的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6257.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6278.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那跟委員報告,個別地院他因為案件的類型也不太一樣,所以這個部分我們當然不一樣,但是每一個縣市的差異化有這麼大嗎?若從72%到47%,差異化有這麼大嗎?每一個家庭的家暴的原因的成因,然後他需要收到保護令的這個保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6282.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6305.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個標你不覺得落差很大嗎那你們有沒有我現在要問的是司法院你們有沒有認真的去看待這件事情因為基本上每一個已經要動用到保護令了他都是從受害者本身都覺得他非常的有需要他才會採取這樣的一個動作或者是社政主管機關也覺得很有需要或者是警察覺得很有需要才會協助他結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6306.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6324.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
在這個司法院核發下來的,如果都還有十幾帕,而且是呈現增加的情況,並沒有去核發的話,那這個就是應該好好去檢討啊。」是。跟委員報告,我們司法行政有不斷在發函,還有或者藉由…你們近期有針對這個開過任何會議嗎?跟衛福部去檢討。 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6329.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6330.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
公職委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6339.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6363.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
如果有把那個報告給本席我要看你們檢討出來的原因是什麼而且你們改善的是什麼另外最後一個問題我要問的是這個衛福部就是有關於目睹兒少的部分你們現在施行的一個情況在你們這個家暴裡面兒少保護類型每一年因為這個家暴案件再通報進來大概是100件左右但是民間團體認為這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6366.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6387.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們每一年將近20萬件的家暴案件這種目睹的兒少可能是超過10萬那這麼大的一個落差還有你們的服務量這當中這件事情你們現在的資源夠嗎?有在做嗎?落實的情況好嗎?因為在你們今天的報告裡面就只有一句話就是目睹兒少我也沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6388.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6408.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
你們呈現的。」所以這個到底現在在衛福部裡面有沒有很重視這件事情這個是在上一波修法裡面特別這個民間倡議希望針對目睹這個家暴的兒少應該要進一步提供服務但是我看現在在你們所有的業務優先順序上它還是一個排在很末端的 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6409.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6426.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這個部分的話當然也會需要我們跟教育單位之間的協助因為這些目睹的兒少那很多都是在學齡中的今天教育單位也沒有來嗎?教育部也沒有任何代表來? |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6429.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6452.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這件事情我希望這個衛福部跟教育部要好好重視因為這樣的一個心理創傷他是看不見的這一個傷但是對他的影響坦白講是很大的所以如果我們從一個比較預防的角度來看的話這一塊我希望你們可以好好重視好不好好謝謝好謝謝我們王委員接下來請黃秀芳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6457.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6485.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
謝謝主席,我們請部長有請我們的薛部長委員好部長昨天我看到一則新聞我就嚇一跳就是說有民眾在那個網路平台上就是說這個PTT的這個八卦版上面就是說臺北慈濟醫院的護理師偷拍病人的私密照 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6487.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6492.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
然後在網路上這樣子傳我覺得這是很離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6495.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6523.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
呃這個一個病人他在那個呃可能在這個開刀房那呃旁邊可能都是醫師或者是護理人員齁那這個病人他根本完全不知道他被做了什麼動作或者是被做了什麼被拍照還是他是完全不知道的齁那我們今天討論的這個呃這個兒童及少年性剝削的防治條例當中這個犯罪的這個樣態其實這個好像也沒有包括在裡面齁如果是兒少就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6523.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6542.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
是好那我想請教就是說這一家這個臺北慈濟醫院他是這個3月份才剛剛升格成這個醫學中心的醫院然後我不知道說部長這一件這一件我現在好像地方的這個衛生局還是交給醫院執行內部先調查沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6544.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6561.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我們是要求衛生局去做調查的應該要一個禮拜要把調查的報告給我們據我們所知的話醫院本身也對這位護理師提出移送 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6563.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6576.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6593.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6621.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
真的一個病人他都躺在那邊然後還可以這樣子被對待如果這件事情是事實的話那當然醫院的責任就會很大就是說在開刀房裡面針對病人尤其是在他麻醉之後已經沒有知覺的清醒之下的話那應該只有在醫學上有必要的才可以去對對他做拍攝那我是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6623.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6641.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、內政部警政署、法 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6646.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6671.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
通常因為在開刀房裡面不是只有一個人在是一群人在是一群人做這樣子的事情是有一點匪夷所思是所以到底他是一個什麼樣的狀況哪一顆的病人上進了手術房是做了全身麻醉還有機會去做這個事情對我是有點因為從實務上面來看很多做全身麻醉的病人 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6672.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6701.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
他是必須你開刀的部位在哪裡都已經鋪好了才開始做麻醉的這是沒有機會去做這種事情不是說一個人然後把衣服通通脫光然後就麻醉了然後再去說我去準備說哪個地方要做開刀事實上並不是這個樣子所以這個敘述我是覺得也有一點奇怪不過還是要看調查的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6701.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6722.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好,我們希望說盡快盡快,而且我發現現在是衛生局他們會自己主動調查嗎?是不是?對,對,我們是要求是這樣。好,那我們希望是這樣子,而不是交給醫院自己調查。當然,當然。對,好,因為我覺得說病人的這個權益真的是要保護,一個完全被麻醉的一個病人躺在那邊, |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6723.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6748.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
被怎樣對待其實它本身是不清楚的所以我們也希望說衛福部這邊針對未來如果調查完之後該怎麼處理或者是病人的權益要怎麼去保護我覺得我們都要好好去思考好不好那接下來我想請教就是說在前幾天衛福部有針對我們這個兒少性剝削的防治條例有做一個跨部會的一個討論修法的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6749.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6775.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
那我想請教部長就是說未來我們這一個這個兒少性播宣就有特別提到就是說四大修法的方向一個是加重刑責那簡化封網流程那還有考慮對付費觀覽兒少性影像處以刑責那也授權政府主動搜尋相關網站與金流那我想請教這個部長就針對這四個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6779.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6794.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
衛福部這邊你是不是可以先稍微提一下因為未來如果我們立法院這邊針對這個修法在委員會排審的話就是說針對很多委員都有提出已經這個版本應該好幾十個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6797.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6818.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
目前是還沒有院版,院版可能要等到你們衛福部要送到行政院這邊才會再送到立法院所以520之前可能我不知道說你們會不會來得及那我是不是先可以請部長就你們現在跨部會這個修法的方向是不是可以先簡單的做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6819.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6846.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
跟我們報告,大概是這樣子,院版一定是緩不濟急,如果依照程序,包括預告,然後法規會要送到行政院,政委再做審查,通過院會再過來的話,大概時間會很冗長。所以我們是就條文的部分,其實我們都有一個參考的建議的條文在這邊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6847.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6876.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那如果是要快當然就是委員的版本就直接審了那我們提供我們的意見在討論條文的時候就去做這樣子的適當的調整如果說衛福部的意見是可採的話那的確啦其實這一次的這個我們的建議的方向就是剛剛委員提到的那四個 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6878.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6891.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
他分散在一些條文裡面當然會有一個新增的條文所以這個就要委員的版本有提我們才派得上用場 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6892.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6917.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好當然就是說希望這個趕快當然這個我希望衛福部這邊能夠盡快那當然這個時間可能也有這個可能會跟立法院這邊可能會有一些時間的一個落差好像王昭偉有說下個禮拜下禮拜要拍所以我們的變成說我們就把速度加快這樣子讓下個禮拜在討論的時候就更具體 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6920.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6947.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那先謝謝部長那我接下來是不是可以請教就是說我們在前一陣子也特別提到就是說這個影像可能在這個網路上面那購買這個金流這個追蹤金流還有這個這個巡查的方式剛剛部長也有提到就是說可能你們會委外巡查的方式可能就是委外那這個金流的部分就是金管會金管會這邊我是不是可以請教金管會這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6957.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6960.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
委員會 金管會是否能說明相關的金流是否可以追蹤、巡查或阻斷? |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6972.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6991.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
報告委員,就是說在金流的部分,那這個案子如果說他在,就是世法健康基金會在追查的時候,他如果有查到說有經過,就是我們金管會目前已經完成法尊聲明的這些,這些這個虛擬同夥的交易平臺的話,那因為我們在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6992.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7012.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這我們都叫VASPR,VASPR這個審判方式辦法裡面要求他們對於這個客戶要採取實名制的所以應該是如果說這些VASPR如果接到司法警方機關要求這個提供資料的這個要求的話他們會會配合司法警方機關來提供資料那也許就可以去找找到相關這些嫌犯以上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7013.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7038.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
好,那我們希望就是說有關這個兒少新博學可能從跨部會都要一起合作不是是衛福部那當然金管會還有很多的部會大家要一起合作才有辦法阻絕啦要不然我覺得說這個在這麼網路新興的一個這個社會當中其實犯罪的樣態一直在一直在變化層出不窮所以我覺得跨部會真的是非常的重要好那謝謝部長好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7041.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7061.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好,謝謝我們的黃秀芳委員。那接下來請圖全集委員發言。好,謝謝主席。再麻煩請我們薛部長。有請薛部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7068.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7096.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
委員好好 薛部長先請教一下像我們2020年1月21號開始就是我們COVID-19新冠疫情因為有很多民眾想了解一下就是說我們現在疫情指揮中心已經解編了嘛 對不對那我們現在的情況新冠疫情的時代算是正式結束了嗎還是還是還有在管制還是處理還是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7097.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7121.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
目前這個因為這個COVID-19的這一隻病毒經過一直的一個演化之後的話那現在有的這一些這個類型已經它的致重症率已經是相當的低了所以我們就把它從第五類的傳染病把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7122.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7147.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
降到變成現在應該是屬於第一次類那也就是說他不再是一個有重大健康威脅的一個傳染病但是他仍然是一個傳染病所以我們每年仍然要去注意到他的流行的狀況那也有必要說在疫苗的施打方面的話也可能必須要持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7148.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7157.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以基本上其實它是還沒有結束只是把它對不會結束變成一般性的傳染病這樣子所以沒有結束的問題那還有就是針對我們4月15號有請我們衛福部針對818天 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7170.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7191.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
停止解析這部分。」後來我們有看一下就是針對兒少性剝削防治條例第8條那時候你們說因為是在112年2月15號修法所以也看了一下就是說他在修改之前的差別就是在修改之前就是形式 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7192.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7211.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
司法上的執法行為,就是要有刑事司法才能去執法,後來修法之後,給行政機關有行政作為的空間,也就是衛福部從那個時候才有法源依據,去處理我們違反惡劣性影像的網站停止解析。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7213.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7233.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好那我們想了解說那但是就算他沒有818天可是如果說從112年2月15號修法那也也有420天的時間那為什麼那個時候沒有辦法去做這部分其實這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7237.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7258.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所謂的這種把他封網這件事情的話,仍然是有兩類,一類的話是在法務部這邊偵查的過程當中,他會主動去等於是扣押,把證據保留,這樣子的動作去做的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7259.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7281.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那第八條之後的話是修法之後是衛福部基於兒少保護的情形之下也可以去做但是我們那個時候就是說把這個程序定在施行細則裡面怎麼樣去做這件事情那所以這一個變成說就動作會比較冗長一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7283.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7305.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
對我們不了解就是說到底是什麼原因是因為那種情況下我們衛福部是不知情還是什麼情況下不能去處理而且據我們了解我們後來今年4月10號停止解析也是用兒少剝削防治條例的第7條跟性侵害犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7306.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7331.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
防治法的第9條以及行政執行法的第36條,含請我們速發部去停止解析。」那看起來跟第8條修法好像也沒有關係啊因為當時的這個去年修法之後的話當然它的這個情形是這個樣子的就是說第一個我們必須要有這個民眾的申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7333.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7353.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
民眾申訴下來之後的話才能夠啟動那個流程我們並沒有權目前也還沒有什麼權可以是普遍性去主動去做網路的搜尋所以我在想說是不是如果像這樣的事情如果沒有民眾申訴沒有民眾檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7354.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7369.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那這個網站他一直犯罪的影像一直在外面散播傳送那難道我們衛福部沒有一些機制去主動去知道這些事去處理嗎所以我們這次修法就是希望說法律授權我們有這樣子的一個機制來做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7370.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7391.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以我們一直就是希望凸顯到底問題在哪裡為什麼這個事情一直發生我說從前面檢察官起訴到後面一審定驗我不知道我們到底在等什麼我們衛福部才有機會去處理這樣子的事情因為事實上我們不見得知道有這類的案件除非說有人來做申訴檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7392.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7416.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
或者是說檢方那邊來請我們做一些協助判斷,這個時候我們才會知道這類的案件。」所以我記得上次部長有講,你說從就算4月10號那一天,你們發函給疏發部停止解析,而且還是冒著法律風險。那我想請問一下,到底是冒著什麼法律風險?根文報告,當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7418.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7445.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
不是只有當時,現在也還是啦就一個施行細則在那邊施行細則我們必須要,比方說民眾檢舉了檢舉之後的話,我們必須要發這個行政處分給這個業者這個網站的業者然後要確定他收到了收到這個行政處分已經送達了然後他不願意遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7446.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7471.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我們才可以去做封網這個動作或者就是說我們找不到那個人到底是誰那也沒有聯絡的方式我們才可以去做這件事情那是在這個施行細則裡面所定的那這一次我們封網是直接就封了啦並沒有特別還要給他行政處分這些我們就跳過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7471.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7494.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以經過這個事情之後而且我看在4月15號我們部長接受中央社的採訪你也有講說坦承這個兒少性剝削防治條例這個程序真的是太冗長那而且又針對我們剛剛前面講的這些事情這樣發生也凸顯在第一時間我們沒有一個完好的機制去做處理所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7495.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7522.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
部長也說要修正,是不是針對這幾個部分已經提出一個完善的修正?我們在這一次的建議條文裡面有,已經有處理這個,那到時候的話,如果下個禮拜我們進入到主條審查的時候,也許我們就可以看得到這個我們的主張是怎麼樣來做處理,因為這個的確會有兩個問題必須要去處理,第一個就是剛剛委員所提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7523.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7543.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
這目前的話到底有多少這種網站,事實上沒有經過檢舉,我們是不知道的。第二個,縱然我們這個處理的也把它封網了,它可能換個網域它又復活。那這種情形出來的時候,如果我們沒有辦法就主動去做這種巡查的話,我們也無從知道。 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7543.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7566.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那結果就是等於說對他來講那個成本很低嘛換個網域繳沒多少錢就可以對所以今天也是跟部長還有衛福部我們講我們今天這個事情發生了但是我們一定要去探討為什麼在第一時間沒有辦法去做處理而且針對我們看我們五年保護服務師我們對這個預算編列還有原額擴編的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7569.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7594.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我看我們預算這5年也是年年增加這原則也是年年擴編表示我們大家對這個事情還有我們對保護服務師可以說是非常重視而且有很大的期待那我們今天在立法院我們一定要好好的來替我們民眾把關也希望跟衛福部我們一起來為我們人民好好做事那基本上明明 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7595.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7607.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
已經沒有做好我們現在發現我覺得我們就應該要儘快雖然亡羊補牢為時已晚可是至少還可以把一些沒有處理完善的情形好好的去把它處理好還有後來我們針對因為這次這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7615.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7634.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
而造這些的事情的發生那違反的影片的發生我看了一下我們衛福部有針對現影像被害人權益保障我們這個權益保障的說明辦法我這邊也建議一下因為我那時候想說去了解一下我看了一下這個裡面這個說明辦法有50幾頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7639.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7655.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
兩萬多個字而且裡面全部都是一大堆的法條我說實在話這個喔如果說以一般的被害人你要他這個好像在給他上課要去考那個律師一樣這個法條一大堆一般的被害人他 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7656.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7675.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
要去尋求保護、輔助、求助,結果看這些法條我覺得這真的是對他們太困難了,是不是可以針對這部分去做一些淺顯易懂的事情,希望這位夫婦針對這部分再好好幫我們研議、好瞭解、好好處理一下。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7678.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7679.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
謝謝主席,我們有請薛部長,同時也請張秀恩司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7711.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7729.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
請張師長雖然還有一個月左右的時間部長繼續辛苦因為其實保護民眾的所有的工程或者是事情真的是也沒有所謂可以休息的時間就麻煩部長還有同仁們繼續努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7731.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7754.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那今天要跟部長來討論的就是有關於主題就是如何針對健全這個高齡者受暴的防治機制那早上也聽了部長的簡報另外如果時間夠我們希望能夠多瞭解一下臺灣目前在推這個五管人生到底有沒有什麼問題或者是成效的部分那我們先看一下這個健全高齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7755.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7771.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
者受暴的應驗跟防治的機制。」我們也知道家有一老如有一寶那對於兒童是我們國家未來的主人翁所以我們都很希望不管是年長者或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7772.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7786.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
兒童們都能夠用社會的力量來提供良好的一個安全的生活環境讓他們不管是在生活當中或在成長當中都能夠有很好的一個保護讓他們免於各種可能帶來的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7788.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7811.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那我們也知道其實過去這五年來這個老人受暴的這個通報率成長了52%而且在今年的2月3號那時候可能是為了因應春節的關係所以這邊委員會特別把這樣受通受內的這樣的這個受暴的這些訊息傳遞給民眾們 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7813.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7830.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那看起來主要原因之一就是可能這些老人在受暴這個成因分析裡面好像跟不管是照顧啦或者是經濟依賴是有一些關係的所以這邊想要了解的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7831.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7845.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
通常如果這些施暴者又是照顧者的話那到底我們這分析的這幾個這麼多的案件裡面這樣的百分比是多少那如果有這樣的狀況的話那他跟季節性 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7846.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7865.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們看到就是好像春節就會比較擔心就會提供民眾做一些參考那如果不是季節的話這個案件是不是有受到因為會季節造成的這種風險是比較低的有沒有相關的內部的這些分析可以提供給我們做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7867.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7891.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這裡面大概有一些數字以去年來講的話老人保護案件是大概2萬2540件那其中這一個直系血清悲親屬作為施暴者的話大概又佔55%就是說子女或者是說孫子女那對老人施暴的大概就佔了55% |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7893.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7898.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
其次親密關係辦理夫妻之間賺26%其他家庭成員14%非家庭成員5%所以有時候我們會覺得說那是不是像那種趙夫妍 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7922.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7933.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
外籍看護會不會比較容易有這種案件?其實不是,是自己的子女是最多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7936.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7950.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
所以我們有時候也會在網路上看到一些影片就是這些高齡者是怎麼被施暴的我們的覺得替他們很擔心那也覺得這樣的作為真的是不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7951.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7973.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
除了相關的行則以外,我們也期待多瞭解一下。」那剛剛部長也提供了一些訊息告訴我們說這個就說質疑血清背清宿或者是說這個親密關係通常會是同住啦同住的會比較多施暴的這種現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7974.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7995.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那他當然其實有些是因為老人家的失能的狀況或者已經有失智所以他沒有辦法配合照顧者的一些要求照顧者如果本身在這方面的知識也不夠的話那他就走起來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7998.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8021.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
就會出現這種動作所以為什麼會這一些就是說同居的這些家屬的話比例會比較高也是有原因的是是那剛剛有提到那個季節性就是說在一年裡面有那麼多那麼長的時間那會不會說在哪一些季節的時候特別容易出現這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8022.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8038.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
議決是比較不會啦,但是其實像不管是哪一種情形的家暴,我們發現都是那個節慶的時間發生的,所以連假也不要休太久。 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8040.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8065.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
OK所以照顧者其實他也很需要有另外的方式來放鬆他在照顧的過程裡面帶來這種相對的壓力所以如何能夠提供這個照顧者好的另外的適應方式也可能要麻煩這邊因為這個策略的確是非常的不一樣我們如果知道他的可能成因的話所以下面要討論的就是那我們有哪一些作為可以讓我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8066.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8089.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
在面對這種年長者受到施暴的時候因為我們將來都有機會變成一個社會的年長者當然我們不希望需要那麼多的人來照顧我們可是這很難避免之下如果我們現在可以能夠有好的應用措施或作為的話希望能夠保護更多的年長者那我們可以看下面這一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8090.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8109.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
到底我們有沒有辦法用現有的或者是更好的一些軟體應用程式等等的來讓至少可以知道說當這個施暴者對我們的老人家提供或者是造成這種身體上的這些或者語言上的這種施暴的時候我們如何能夠提早來應應 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8111.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8122.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
這部分的話其實是這樣子,如果說有一些軟體應用程式或者一些科技的方式的話,通常他很難用在自己的家裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8124.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8146.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
就你如果是在機構裡面照顧機構裡面或者說社區的像說這個日照中心這一類的話也許還做得到但是從我們的統計來看的話親密關係或者是家屬之間的施暴是最佔多數的那這些的話在在 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8148.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8161.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
等於說這些科技的東西的話就比較派不上用場所以我是認為可能最重要的是要讓這些照顧的家屬讓他們有知道說 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8162.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8192.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
其實政府長照2.0是有提供一些方法可以來協助他們的這些並不是照顧這些老人家並不是你唯一就是說依靠你這一個家屬唯一的一個方法要讓他們知道說他們有地方可以來求尋求幫助或者尋求協助我覺得這才是最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8193.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8211.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
是所以我們很希望這是一個好的照顧網絡不只是各個單位做自己的事情而是希望碰到問題的時候有更好的思維模式不管從網絡網絡的合作啦或者是在跟社區整體的去保護所有社區的居民包括我們這些年長者 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8213.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8230.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
謝謝那我們也在針對武館人生也希望多了解一點點因為時間的關係我還是想了解因為我們衛福部其實在幾年前就開始三年前兩年前就開始希望能夠讓這些留置鼻胃管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8230.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8256.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
民眾有機會把這個管子拔除,重新享受它當為一個人的時候,可以從嘴巴、從口來禁止食物。」那到目前為止,其實好像我們所看到的成效還是有一些限制啦,因為從11年6月1號開始執行到目前我們去了解的只有200件左右,透過健保的申請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8256.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8275.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那似乎這個量是有點跟當初的預估可能會有很大的落差那不知道目前在執行上有碰到哪一些的困境或者是需要重新提出來檢討的部分我想這部分的話當然健保如果能夠提供一個適當的誘因應該是有幫助的也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8279.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8295.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
你放置鼻胃管的原因是照顧比較方便嘛就直接用這個Liquid Art就直接灌食那這樣子的話對照顧者好像是比較方便但是對於這一個受照顧人來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8299.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8318.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
他就失去了這個咀嚼啦等等吞唸了這一些的功能恢復的一個機會所以這兩者兩者的話要去做一些平衡啦也就是說其實我們如果要把柱比位管這件事情健保要提供一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8319.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8333.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
一個誘因,這樣拔儲之後的話,照顧者仍然不會覺得說要去餵食是一個困難的事情,倒不如直接灌食是比較方便,要讓這個狀況是扭轉。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8338.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8356.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
所以我們期待部裡面也有更好的配套措施來讓我們這些查筆位管的民眾有機會透過大家的努力把這個筆位管拔除那同時有更好的生活品質好那謝謝部長好謝謝好謝謝王振旭委員我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8398.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8402.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8656.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8678.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8979.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8997.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
現在繼續開會請林淑芬委員發言主席各位大家午安是不是還是請我們這個薛部長請薛部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9004.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9017.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
部長,我們這個兒少性剝削的這個防治條例,其實現在大家去年1月就修好了,現在才回過頭才發現說支付關攬、支付對價關攬,這個犯罪樣態根本沒有放進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9022.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9024.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
全體委員會、國家通訊管理委員會、國家通訊管理委員會、國家通訊管理委員會、國家通訊管理委員會、國家通訊管理委員會、國家通訊管理委員會、國家通訊管理委員會、 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9044.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9066.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
開刀房裡面的病人被偷拍所以我們現在很高度的關注是因為性影像的拍攝、製造、偷拍等等很多這種對人權侵犯、對人身侵犯程度來講相當高的這種樣態其實都是以販賣盈利散播為目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9067.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9093.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
所以他們動輒到時候承認的時候說這是我自己想要拍下來留念自己觀看其實我們都開始覺得說背後很不單純所以由此可知以性犯罪的樣態來製作這個性影像的網頁網站或盈利行為應該非常嚴重就像我上一次就說的美國就有一個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9094.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9099.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
美國這個兒童性剝削通報系統 的統計發現從2019到2022,美方偵測兒少性剝削影像來自臺灣IP的通報數量成長2.3倍,從3萬到7萬所以凸顯了性剝削影像近年在臺灣的氾濫程度而現在我們要講的是,不只是未成年兒少的影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9119.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9148.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
包括成年人的這個性犯罪影像都是以這類的樣態為居多所以我們真的想台灣到底是怎麼了怎麼了那我也上次也講說土法不足以自刑你們今天大家都講很多但我為什麼要講大家都把責任丟到立法院來立委你要不要加重期刑立法院你要不要加重期刑土法只有加重徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9149.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9177.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
無效啊!這就不是跟立法院說的叫行動、社會管理我現在為什麼講說修法可以阻嚇這個犯罪嗎?要有一些技術方面的資源才有可能啦技術方面的資源你講的意思好像是講警政署但因為今天警政委員而已所以我也就我就算了跟他們講在這裡也無效現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9179.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9186.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
一個警政委員隨時等著要外派出去當官的而已,當地方警政單位的局長而已,所以我就不講了。」但是我們講說你說要技術上的支援,去年11月8號婦女救援基金會在婦女和性別議題的政策研討論壇當中就說性影像聯防的四個法修訂後的建議,不是只有法律修訂啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9207.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9210.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
他講偵辦人員就是警政單位的偵辦人員相關經費器材不足偵辦困難且耗時間沒有跨縣市的專責人力都是多項都是監辦而且沒有專責人力都是這個監辦以外連專責單位也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9224.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9250.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
副、右、對的偵辦經費也很少然後專業的網路人員經驗傳承也沒有辦法因為這個很多第一線的承辦人員他們對法律的認識和適用有待加強等等啦包括網路偵查這個境外的網路要下架對散佈匿名行為的人要起訴定罪這個在技術上都很難以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9252.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9276.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
在2021年臺灣公共行政和公共事務所聯合會暨國際學術研導會的議程裏面他們討論到兒童及少年性剝削防治機制的現況與困境與對策裏面也一再的講專業辦案的專業能力仍有不足的地方而且警察機關跟網路業者的協調合作機制未完善化而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9277.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9288.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
網路兒少遭受性剝削犯罪的犯案手段推陳出新不義防治違反兒少性剝削防治條例的量刑低起訴也低 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9292.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9319.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那我現在在講說到底有多低?到底量刑有多低?起訴率到底有多低?圖法不足以自行,你這個修法到底有沒有用?從去年才大修過,我們就比較一下,去年1月通過,2月15號施行新的,就是增加了39條,連無故持有都要從行政法變成刑法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9320.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9337.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那36條的使兒童或少年被拍攝自拍或製造性影像這個提高了行程從3年到7年變成3年到10年嗎那我現在看第一個表格我現在不懂因為你們上個禮拜來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9339.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9348.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
衛福部統計拍攝製造兒童或少年為性交或猥褻行為的物品2022年1971件、2023年2903件這是你們統計資料嘛,上個禮拜提供的法務部那裡為什麼只有692件跟767件 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9364.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9386.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
違反36條的到地方法院一審判決的件數590跟688我現在不懂你們統計數據以2023年為例明明就是拍攝製造兒童或少年為性交或猥褻行為的物品就違反兒少剝削條例的第36條的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9388.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9399.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
你們統計是2900件為什麼到法務部地檢署偵查終結的人數是767件起訴了498767裡面起訴498為什麼落差這麼大衛福部的統計是有來做申訴到通報的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9416.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9416.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
案件室 。 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9439.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9450.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
兩千九百件到法務部地檢署辦理偵查終結人數剩下七百六十七人 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9460.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9489.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
跟委員報告因為我們是地檢署說案是以被告的人數做計算我們不曉得衛福部這邊過來的是一個統計基準你們是用被害人他也是人數啊我們是被告人數被告這個又不是告訴哪一論罪這公訴罪每一件每一個人數每一個個案當然會有可能是一件數個人啊但是但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9490.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9518.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
到最後怎麼會大幅縮水也不至於大幅縮水縮水所以若見照你所說是每一個人都拍了好多個喔每一個人拍了五個四個喔每一個都是犯罪行為是累犯而且不斷的在重重複犯罪的根委員報告一個被告他可能有很多的一個被害人所以在統計上面衛務部過來所以這些人都很可惡了來沒關係那法院來 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9520.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9537.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
今天是司法院副庭長每個人如你所說受害人都很多人的話到地方法院一審裁判件數含無罪的含無罪的767人到最後是688件 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9546.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9570.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
含無罪的這數量也少了767變成688這可能原因是什麼?是委員好跟委員報告我們法院裁判依照這個兒少腺波穴防治條例36條我們的統計數字是確實是688沒有錯我知道啦我在問你說為什麼從767變成688692變成590 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9577.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9602.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
都少了很多欸對阿為什麼因為這裡面還含無罪的也在裡面每個案件怎麼到一集一集上去人數也少了這為什麼阿我現在在問你們阿我跟委員報告我的瞭解是我們這邊的688是指裁判的件數 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9604.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9619.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
就是說我們說檢察官起訴之後法院經過法院裁判的件數是六方好那我知道了OK那司法院你先回首現在我要問法務部下一張這個表格為什麼我講這個呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9620.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9647.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
可以看得出來2019年到2023年違反兒少性剝削條例的案件數是不斷的增加108年是215件到112年是767件可是在這種案件逐年增加裡面我們非常不了解的是起訴率從2019年的76.3的起訴率到現在下降 逐年下降到64.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9648.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9653.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
主年下降,76.3變成67.3變成63.4變成62.3最後變成64.9還起訴的比例其實主年上升從108年的2.3%的還起訴到現在是4.0不起訴的比例也是主年在攀升10.2的不起訴到18.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9676.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9678.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
難道是警察辦案每一件都瑕疵這麼多嗎?為什麼這樣子?這個數據和人民的情感和社會的觀感和我們輿論的觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9687.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9714.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
差很大我發現我們移送了這麼多然後呢起訴率在下降還起訴率和不起訴率在增加這是為什麼你也解釋給我聽看看跟我們人民的觀感是相反的跟委員報告檢察官不管是起訴不起訴還起訴其實都是個案上他的一個證據判斷這個部分我們那我可不這麼認為我舉黃子佼的案例來看他無故持有 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9715.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9743.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那他這個東西是緩起訴緩起訴你們的理由是說他是出犯而且避免受害女子在審判過程要受到二度傷害決定給予緩起訴而不是輕重但是因為社會輿論之後你們現在才要求這個以未完備偵查所以要再去刑偵查我的意思是說我們就去年修法後就持有就要刻以刑責了 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9744.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9756.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
可是沒有用,我們才持有七步誒,我們修法去年修法一月就修好了,修法的目的就是要針對持有的人一定要刻意行責,這個是我們社會的共識、立法院的共識而修好的法,你們檢察署 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9766.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9789.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
你們讓立法院的修法讓社會的輿論淪為笑話把他從行政法變成刑法結果你辦這個高度社會矚目的案件而且是一個持有七部未成年兒少性剝削影像的人你給他變成說還起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9791.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9812.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
所以你說為什麼不起訴率降不起訴率提高還起訴率也提高比例還上升你看第檢署辦理違反兒少法第39條的無辜持有的因為是去年才修法嘛所以你來看38件起訴了38人起訴6人還起訴8人不起訴23人 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9818.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9836.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個是法律修得不好還是法律警察機關執法的時候過程沒有專業能力還是你們地檢署在辦案的時候輕輕放下連黃紫嬌這種高度社會矚目只有七步而且剛修法完高度社會矚目你們都還可以還起訴然後硬要跟社會對幹我這到底是什麼原因啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9844.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9862.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
還是跟委員說明緩起訴其實就檢察官認定上緩起訴還是最顯重大在檢察官心理上他還是一個犯罪行為那至於個案他到底我們當然知道啦緩起訴的加緩起訴的相加緩起訴加不起訴的31件38件他們兩個加起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9866.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9875.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
全部38件起訴才6件起訴加還起訴你認為還起訴還是犯罪樣態嗎?6加8還是小於不起訴的23 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9877.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9901.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
但是跟委員報告因為個案上都是以證據來認定他有所以我問你啊是警察機關大家都講修法啊重重量刑啊行政法改成刑法啊現在還要加入這個付付費對價關攔這種也要入刑法啊可是土法只有這個法有辦法法律也定了也修了也增訂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9903.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9904.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
是你們檢查地檢署的問題?還是警察機關有問題,連辦案的專業能力都沒有啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9914.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9933.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
跟委員報告其實我們可以提升這個徵收的量能那這中間當然還涉及到有關於一些科技偵查方法還是因為沒有這個工具法案還是在立法院還是在行政院研議中那所以39條是無故持有一定是查到你的電腦裡面已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9935.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9951.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
有影像人、什麼徵收工具,這種東西只要移送,結果你們還是給他不起訴,一定是電腦裡面或是家裡面收到,不管是DVD或是主機裡面下載的,一定是有了,才會叫無辜持有,結果到你們那裡是還起訴加不起訴, |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9959.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9970.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
林委員時間的關係是不是等於司長的說明?主席我再講一下這你講不清楚我告訴你這真的是真正的問題警察的專案辦案的年齡不足然後在檢訴裡面對這種的看法認為說可以還起訴的還起訴連黃子椒高度社會矚目違反我們社會的共識的你們也敢還起訴了 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9986.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9993.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
所以這個才是大問題來我再問一下就是說我們柯總昭臉書剛有一篇叫死刑是否違憲裡面講到立法者或造法者都應該要自我省失法律應該反映國民的正當法律感情不可以無視於民意更不應該以精英思維專斷主張以精英式的獨斷決定凌駕於民意共識之上不僅會對社會造成衝擊與割裂 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10016.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10045.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
更不利於我國的民主發展所以立法者本於立法的職權修法反映了國民正當的法律感情回憶民意而司法院從警察啦從地檢署啦現在到司法院法官現在動輒以刑法第59條刑法第59條司法院來看一下林委員因為等一下還要處理臨時提案我知道主席這個案子難道 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10045.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10048.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
不能稍微再談一下嗎?這個案子有被討論過嗎?我們在這裡第一次討論我們現在講說這個地方法院刑事一審訴訟被告違反性剝削第36條裁判結果就是從地檢署裡面已經起訴的然後送進去法院你自己看 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10065.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10066.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
從行政法修法以來,第39條 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10088.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10095.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
三十九條他的裁判件數是零當然理由很多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10097.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10122.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
起訴六件,結果裁判數字是零,沒有判的結果,那就39條。但是我們現在要看到第36條。第36條,你起訴了,好不容易起訴了,送到地方法院去。地方法院法官動輒就說可以服,其請各民啊,大家給他動用刑法第59條,減輕其這個刑度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10128.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10144.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
1080、254件的案件動用了第59條減刑的有46件到去年671件大家都知道案件數逐年成長然後到去年給他動用減刑條例的超過三分之一是274件比例他 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10148.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10159.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
檢刑不斷的大家修法要從重結果在法院的判刑是每年递增的在使用檢刑條例從2019年的18%到一年上升到隔年是28%的檢刑再到110年是32%的檢刑到111年 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10171.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10197.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這種利用兒少製造影片然後在這種大家講要加重期刑的時候他還不斷地減刑到去年減刑的比例高達41%委員我們是不是到這個主條的時候我們再來討論這跟主條有什麼相關這個我講的叫土法不足以自刑嘛我們今天在這裡立法院重重重演主條再加嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10198.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10224.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
可是司法院、地檢署、到警政單位這種辦案的態度這種不斷的檢刑、然後還起訴、不起訴這樣下去的話這個傷害國民情感然後在這裡讓立法院的修法淪為笑話好啦,我就說這樣保證你最後有什麼話要說的,你敢不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10228.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10235.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
主席,我們開會都很早就結束了,我們可以開會開到下午五點,以前的衛生委員會開會都開到下午五點了。二輪,第二輪,第二輪發言我可以等,我現在可以結束我第二輪發言,登記。 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10254.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10279.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
還是給部長說了算就好了?這有道理的啦,這就是牽涉到我們的整個司法制度我剛剛講的有沒有道理?這個是有道理,是不是問題?也是一個問題之所在,但是真正的原因背後的原因可能還要再更深入的去分析了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10280.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10299.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
分析原因,大家在這裡雙手一攤束手無策,結果犯罪樣態、犯罪的案件數、犯罪的量不斷地增加,受害者未成年的一直增加,成年的也一直增加,然後成為台灣國家的國際形象受損,然後受害的人民越來越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10300.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10318.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
可能這一個,比如說剛剛委員提到的這一個用刑法59條來減刑的比例之所以會上升的話是不是我們立法立得不合,我們法律立得有問題一定有它的原因在,這還是需要再進一步去 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10318.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10339.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
不是啊,我們立法要構成要件明確性、罪責相當性、橫平性我們的立法有問題才讓法官這樣子動輒就啟動59條的減刑條款嗎?是我們立法院的立法有問題嗎?否則法官為什麼每個人事成的人都要減刑囉?好啦,謝謝啦,回去討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10348.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10372.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
好,謝謝林淑芬委員的發言。那我現在做以下的宣告,在楊瓊英委員質詢結束處理臨時提案,現在請李昆城委員發言。謝謝主席。我們請衛福部部長,還有這個法務部警政署金管會書發部。等一下都會問到。好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10377.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10399.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
部長好那請問一下這個按照你們的資料這個從去年8月中到今年的3月底這個衛福部關於這個非法性影像的收件總共2901件然後呢這個處理案件是767件成功率是26%那我先請教一下那剩下2000多件為什麼沒辦法處理勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10403.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10424.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所謂的處理的成功是應該使得是說有到檢察官這邊做了沒有不是欸這個成案率是指這樣子嗎?成案率是指說這個下架非法影像的還沒有到這一個我知道我知道對對對所以那個是成案率啦對啊我另外一個說齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10425.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10440.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
為什麼這個收件有2900件,但是你們只處理了767件,那剩下2200件勒?這點落不到業者,那還說業者還不下架?因為剛剛講2000多件的話,那是有申訴進來的,但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10440.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10458.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
後來有一些我們去查找不到影像也有說網址是無效的等等這些所以真正找得到網址也是這個影像可以來做比對的這個部分變成是767件 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10460.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10481.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所以其他2200件是無法呈案的你說找不到網址不是說因為他是申訴嘛是民眾的申訴案件進來好那這個齁過去的這個封網的條件有兩階段第一個是業者不配合另外一個是無法聯繫到業者才能封網對不對那我看你們這一個報告裡面說齁修法的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10481.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10505.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
有要精進,那可以請這個部長說明一下嗎?就是說你們行政處分下架的實現要怎麼樣去縮短流程然後必要時候採取限制接取的方式那這個比較明確的方向是什麼?第一個就是說要封網因為本來這類型有兩種一種的話民眾申訴是個別的一個影像或者是錄影 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10506.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10523.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那這個在不同的網頁、不同的媒體上面都有可能出現所以這個必須要用下架的方式那另外一種是網站有一個網站專門在做這個提供這種好那我們就講創新私房好了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10525.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10537.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以這就是一個網站,如果是屬於網站的話,我們希望未來當我們查到有這種提供兒少的影像我們就直接封網 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10538.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10560.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
就直接封網?你們要怎麼直接封網?你們還要再跟這個速發部再去請他們再封網嗎?那要不要經過這個法院的程序?沒有,就以預防性的這種理由就直接把它封網所以過去的話還要經過這個法院去申請這個限制令才能交給速發部去做封網那現在不用了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10560.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10586.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
沒有,就我們希望再來的修法就是這樣,可以直接等於說預防他的這種性影像的散播,所以我們直接就封網就直接可以請這一個速發部他們就進行這一個封網就對了那所以就是說你們發現說這個是這個性影像跟這個兒少性剝削有關係的就可以不用經過法院這道程序,直接你們認定那你們是哪個機關來認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10587.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10606.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
認定當然是衛福部這邊來認定衛福部有哪個單位來做認定保護師他底下有設一個性影像處理中心就是有他的認定所以你們直接就跟數法部來做處理就對了數法部接下來程序修法方向是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10607.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10624.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
是的,因為報告委員在4月19號上禮拜五,衛福部已經針對所有機關去做盤點,已經把相關流程做一個盤點,而且未來修法方向也擬定了初步的條文。就像部長他所講的方向,就行政處理就可以了,不用到法院端就對了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10624.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10642.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
報告委員動長機制有兩個,一個是法官那邊要去做,另外一個就是行政機關的,那現在我們處理是行政機關的部分,那行政機關部分它的條文大概法務部的條文大概有幾個,就是直接通知所謂四個,一個是數位部,另外一個是通傳會 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10644.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10656.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
因為通訊傳播委員會負責所有ISP業者另外一個是教育部負責所謂的學術教育網路另外一個是IASP業者就是所謂的真正的網際網路接取服務提供者所以他現在條文大概出理如上跟這四個單位來做這個封網的通知嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10662.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10685.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
不是,是由衛福部整個來...對對對,我說衛福部來通知,是影像處理中心來做通知就對了那這個運用網路科技,主動查查,這也是衛福部的工作嗎?目前的話,我們是有這一個條文,我們希望說有能夠有這種法律的授權但是實際上執行的話,也不一定就是由衛福部來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10686.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10713.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
如果說警務署那邊有這種技術有這種單位的話其實由他們來做也可以時間有限我再問一個現在就是按照媒體他們所公布的一些訊息他說這個創意司法有80名的高級會員然後呢這個80個人還包含醫師、老師、工程師還有軍警我不曉得這個法務部或是這個警政署有沒有相關的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10715.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10725.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
是媒體所披露的高級會員80人,那包含上次,如果是包含這個老師啊、軍警啊,這還蠻嚴重的,你們有相關的資料嗎?或是說有任何偵辦的進度嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10730.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10756.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
跟委員報告,現在有關於剛剛委員垂詢這件事情,一地監視已經在偵辦中。對,那的確有這件事情就對了。還在偵查中。還在偵查中。好,那我在金管會也有來啦。就是說,現在就是金流要怎麼去斷啦。因為它現在,這一個它是等於是一個性剝削的產業啦。然後呢,它也現在這個也使用這個所謂的泰達幣來加入會員,甚至升級都是用這個虛擬貨幣。那接下來這個金流要怎麼斷啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10761.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10786.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
報告委員,我們金管會的部分本來就要求這些跟我們完成法律的聲明這些平台,那他們必須要沒有去登記你們這個法律的聲明,這不可能去登記啦我問一下法務部或是說警政署,關於金流這部分要斬斷這部分有沒有什麼具體的計畫? |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10790.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10805.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
金流這部分,因為他這個查到80個人也是因為去查金流才查到這80個人嘛,對不對?跟委員說明,我們洗錢防治法有關於就金流部分就是有虛擬自產的部分現在要遵守法徵,要讓它落地等等這些有規範在這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10808.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10826.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我一聽大概你們還沒有什麼具體的做法他為什麼能夠死灰復藍而且人數越來越多因為他就是這個有這個會員有收費那會員收費呢那本身不斷提升影片還能夠升級那我意思是說前段是屬於這個影片下架的那後段你要去斬斷這個金流你斬斷這個金流他這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10829.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10849.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
不管是這個創意私房或是其他類似的網站,只能有辦法整個都斷掉啦。那我我我因為時間有限,那我是希望說你們就斬斷金、金流這部分的話,能夠再做一個比較具體的一個報告或是說明出來好不好?好不好?好,謝謝。好,謝謝主席。好,謝謝李昆城委員。接下來請陳亭飛委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10859.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10862.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
、社會福利及衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、社會福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、社會福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10869.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10891.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
委員好部長好部長我想剛剛聽到你在討論這所謂蜂王的部分我想我先跟你討論一下現在的方法跟你未來要做的方法到底你要從哪一塊下去加強這才比較具體現在我們衛福部如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10892.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10921.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
在整個性影像的部分接獲民眾的申訴我們才能啟動嘛 對不對我們現在是被動嘛我們並沒有主動去巡查這些相關的影像未來我們會主動巡查是這樣的意思嗎?有法令上的授權就是這一次要修嘛所以修了之後我們就可以有法令上的授權你們可以主動巡查 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10922.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10939.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
技術上面的話那其實如果說我們的那個警政署這邊可以做那就由警政署來做如果不行的話我們就委外來做沒有啊所以嘛我就說你們不能現在講的跟到時候做的又是 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10941.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10964.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
法令的武器給你們了,然後呢,你們又在各個單位職權調遷不合適,兩名這個太那個,那個太那個,結果最後沒有人處理。我現在就直接問,如果法令修了,武器給你們了,你們有法可以做了,那請問是誰要去諮詢?是警政署要去諮詢,還是你衛福部要去諮詢? |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10964.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10979.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
原則上應該是衛福部因為他要有法的主管機關衛福部本身沒有能力做這個所以我們想到的是說在短期之內可能要用委外的方式來做給我們技術的支援 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10980.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11006.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
但是未來如果說這個科技偵查法部長你這樣講這個關注的新聞跟關注的焦點你這麼講到時候真的修法之後你們拿不出魄力來我告訴你你們被罵翻了現在已經罵翻了所以這個你要很小心我覺得你不能再這樣的一個回答就是說今天如果修法之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11007.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11024.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
你們要在多久把這樣的一個所謂的搜尋機制建立好該給誰的該給衛福部能夠有這樣的一個主導權然後警政署加入或是你要委外委外要怎麼委外你這些修法的時候整個配套都要出來喔當然這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11026.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11037.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
部長然後再來現階段接受到申訴之後他還要去確認這些網頁資料有沒有涉及違法的影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11038.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11058.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那以後修法之後就不用確立?要啊,就是由我們自行確立衛福部自行確立因為本來的話是這個確立有分層級啦比方說是地方政府還是還是中央政府那現在以後這一個部分的話確立就是由 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11058.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11087.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
有衛福部,直接確認。」好來我們現在的方式是我們拿到了涉及這個違法就像剛剛我們部長所說的過去可能一下子是地方政府、一下子中央政府未來全部因為過去就是我們拿到資料如果判定是的話我要求地方政府去要求業者下架那現在沒有了我們中央政府直接處理是這樣嗎?好直接處理之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11088.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11113.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那我們如果看到業者不配合呢?我們就直接封網,沒有配不配合的問題。所以未來也沒有說像現在,我現在是在做對照,現在是你要求業者自動下架。未來我們修法之後是直接封網,技術有辦法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11118.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11143.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
技術有辦法嗎?我們的技術沒辦法配合這一次的封網其實就證明說技術是有辦法的就是說我們給了這個言論處分那速發部接到之後的話他就直接做了所以這個技術上面應該是沒有太大的問題這是因為眾所矚目啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11144.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11154.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
所以你們非做不可啊對啊那如果未來未來這樣的問題產生不是眾所矚目不是媒體這樣一直追 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11155.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11174.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這我們還是做,還是把它封掉啊。就直接封嗎?對,直接就封了啊。這個很重要喔。我們不希望未來,現在,衛福部都說因為我們的法有限制,所以沒辦法。好,修法之後。我跟委員報告,現在未來的話,那這個情形會這樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11175.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11202.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
通常如果說我們封了業者抗議的話那就會走到所謂的行政救濟但是這種案子的話通常不會他就會變成說他又要去換個網域就重新復活所以他一復活我們就繼續封部長你很厲害你知道我下面就要問你這一個你直接封網之後他就換個身份再上那你有這個能力、人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11203.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11219.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
能力跟人力去做這樣的一個追逐遊戲嗎?有辦法嗎?而且如果說他今天他的IP位置在境外或是他用所謂的隱匿身份那這怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11220.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11233.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
還是封啦,如果是我剛剛講的。不是,我知道還是封嘛,他還是封完之後,他去改變一個,然後你們再封。我是說你到最後有能力跟人力去做這個事情嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11234.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11237.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
非法,非法,非法,非法,非法,非法,非法,非法, |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11260.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11287.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我們現在對於像黃子江他基本上已經持有在他所有的資料裡面他自己的一個相關硬碟都已經有7張所謂的未成年未成年的這個照片那居然我們現在就把他還其數號我們現在加重刑責未來嘛加重持有刑責好那請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11289.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11293.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那如果加重最後端在法院這一端那該怎麼辦還是輕輕翻過該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11297.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11322.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
你又說這都不是你啊所以我覺得這個就是一體性的問題我覺得這是大家在這整個公共議題當中要怎麼面對所以我們也希望從上到下包括我們法務部包括衛福部包括所有相關單位包括NCC數位部其實大家都是要整個全力來防堵為我們的下一代謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11324.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11340.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
好,謝謝陳婷菲委員發言。接下來請楊瓊英委員發言。主席,楊瓊英發言,再邀請部長。請薛部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11345.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11363.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
委員好。部長好。部長,本席要跟你討論的是封網呢,那它歸宿卡卡的,到底問題卡在哪裡?偷拍的這個封網,那這個速度慢,歸宿慢,那它卡在哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11364.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11373.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
法務部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11395.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11423.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
預防綜藝治療,只要發現你們就可以先動手了。」這個是本席非常希望也非常讚許因為我們不能讓這個事件再發生那這樣的一個情況之下你們在禮拜五所討論的內容大概方向除了這個你們可以預備動作只要發現有狀況的時候可以先預防性的封網,是不是?對,差不多是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11423.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11427.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
其他還有幾個重點,包括付費觀賞、現影像,以前都沒有入罪,現在我們打算這一個也框列進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11443.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11469.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那剛剛提到的主動去封網之外的話還有一個就是說因為現在有兩種這種違法的模式一種就是剛剛講的那它是一個網站所以這用主動預防性的封網來做處理但是另外還有一個就是這種有人上傳到某一個媒體或者是平台上面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11470.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11486.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這個就要讓他下架因為他可能是說在Facebook上面去PO出來也有可能說是在LINE裡面去PO出來那這個我們沒有辦法用封網的方式去做處理所以就要他下架那過去的話是他的程序太冗長 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11487.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11510.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
人家檢舉之後的話,我們還要去通知當事人,通知當事人的時候。那你們怎麼樣簡化這個SOP流程呢?對,我們這個部分都希望就是說能夠簡化。簡單來講的話,就是要處理掉那個送達的那個問題,電子送達的那個問題。我們歡喜聽到部長你剛才所說的,因為我們看到過去一年,那封網的只有9件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11511.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11520.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
法務部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11532.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11554.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
出來,你們預計的時間?條文現在我們大致上都擬好,但是那個算是參考條文。對,請問你們的預估KPI裡頭什麼時候會送出?因為社會大眾很期待,什麼時候?應該這個禮拜我們大概就會把它讓衛環委員會裡面的委員都能夠知道。就這個禮拜? |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11555.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11570.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
就換句話說本集如此的解讀看對不對也就是在這個禮拜五以前你們會將你們這一段時間所討論的綜合之後這個條文您定搞出來對就建議條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11571.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11571.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
建議提案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11592.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11614.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我們這個家庭暴力防治法裡頭我們修法之後保護令也這個家暴安全法那很多人就說我如果去申請保護令他受到的二次傷害更大更大而且我也看到了這個數量也數字也讓我很難過去年有達到13萬件 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11617.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11645.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
二千一百四十七件的高峰通報家暴那這個是顯性的隱性沒有通報的還不知道多少那這個社會太痛苦了在這樣的情況之下目前我們是修法之後是親密關係它是包括婚姻、離婚、同居所以實際上大家處理的時候我們的訪視人員太辛苦了這個非常的複雜所以本期要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11646.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11673.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
保護令我們是希望能夠真正得到保護但是也造成了很多的惡質傷害所以在這樣的情況之下呢家暴的安全網呢當然它包括了很多警政、教育、衛生、社政、民政、戶政勞工等等單位的一個整合因為本席在社會學跟社工系裡頭我們在好好在研討這個問題那你要結合了這麼多的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11677.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11700.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以又面臨到這麼複雜的一個情境所以我們現在目前我認為目前的執行跟目前的法律還是沒有辦法保護這些人員而且他數量在增加數量在增加所以我具體的建議第一個你們整個流程要怎麼樣讓受害者可以申請保護令的人可以真正 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11701.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11723.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
去得到保護,我們有什麼堅定的方案?」這第一個。第二個,也就是你的訪視人員明明白白是不夠的。明明白白是不夠的。那部長,你應該要去盤點。跟剛剛我在司法委員會一樣,司法院的司法官二十幾歲給你跳下來,這太難過的事情。那平均案件那麼多, |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11724.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11750.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以怎麼辦所以他們盤點所需的人力他盤點出來那我也希望我們衛福部這邊你盤點你這個訪視的人員你到底要怎麼樣去增加這個非常非常的重要接下來也就是你的家暴防治中心你的主任、社工人員的一個培訓當你不足的時候你還有怎麼樣的量能可以加入 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11752.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11762.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
可以加入當然包括了社團但是你必須要去培訓你如果沒有培訓那就更模糊了所以本席在這邊具體建議這兩項請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11765.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11787.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這部分的話其實沒有錯啦這整個人力必須要去做盤點因為這些社會安全網包括在內的這一些部分的話其實是蠻複雜的那不過像這個保護鏈也就家暴防治的這個部分的話我想我們還是必須要把案件類型把它整理出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11788.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11812.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
謝謝,多久時間?你去盤點出來好不好?我們一起加油。真的,我看到我們訪視人員太辛苦了。你多久時間告訴我們?盤點,數位大眾,你們的需求?大概多久時間?沒關係,你告訴我。我本來想說一個月啦,但是一個月我就不在了。所以你要有所作為啊,我就等你這句話啊,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11813.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11827.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11837.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11862.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
謝謝楊瓊英委員現在處理臨時提案總共有9案請一併宣讀臨時提案第一案衛生福利部於2024年2月統計所屬26家醫院設有放射診斷科共計20家醫院設有20個主管職務中其中10名由放射診斷科醫師兼任1名由醫事放射師兼任其餘9名由其他科別醫師站待基於視察視認 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11864.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11888.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
科主管一職應由相關專業人才擔任為原則,部立醫院更應作為全國醫療院所之表率,以增加相關醫事人員的專業認同。」提案人委員黃秀芳、王振旭、林月琴、蘇巧慧。第二案,因應COVID-19相關費用自2023年3月20日回歸健保之印,已造成健保點值有所下降,該年度最終編列公務預算撥補健保。COVID-19輕症門診 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11893.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11910.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
稀釋健保典值仍持續發聲,原建請衛生福利部持續關注2024年各季健保典值之變化,並邀請相關團體共同研議對策以穩定醫療品質與量能。」提案人委員黃秀芳、王振旭、林月琴、蘇巧慧。第三案,未減緩現有 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11912.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11929.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
為減緩現有護理人力短缺,行政院於2023年9月28日通過護理人力政策整備十二項策略計畫,其中之一護理人員夜班費獎勵利益良善,原建請衛生福利部於三個月內盤點各醫事人員人力情形,對於人力短缺者研議與 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11931.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11953.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
業班費獎勵,並將盤點及研議結果送至立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提案人委員黃秀芳、王振旭、林月琴、蘇巧慧。第四案,為使相關制度能夠更完整,也讓過往可能漏接的個案受到應有裁罰,原要求福利部應請各地方設政機關向教育機關追溯行政法法第27條三年時效之內之校園調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11956.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11963.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
由社政單位重新檢視校園內調查屬實且未經兒少法裁罰之個案前述校園查證屬實但未經兒少法裁罰案件提供狀況與後續裁罰狀況之書面報告請於三個月內提供立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提案人委員林月琴、黃秀芳、劉建國、陳培瑜第五案考量當前全國醫院當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11982.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11986.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
僅地區醫院受到電費補貼,如此時難以解決整體醫療韌性受損之事實,是以決議速啟動對於各層級醫院辦理電價補貼之研議作業,事後並於二個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。」提案委員陳金輝、邱振鈞、廖偉祥、楊瓊英 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12004.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12028.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
第六案考量防治兒童及少年遭受任何形式之性剝削保護其身心健全發展之政策必須嚴謹特決議要求最速完成死刑受費此後所可能對於兒少保護業務之衝擊評估並限其與一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告提案人委員陳金輝、邱振鈞、廖偉翔、楊瓊英第七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12030.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12053.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
為避免兒少性影像繼續透過上述非法網站字義傳播並有效斬斷其營運金流並反向追溯相關使用者,原要求金融監督管理委員會與警政署彙整目前追溯虛擬貨幣金流之措施,另對於中國大陸境內之金流,評估是否能透過兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議平台。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12055.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12069.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
追查相關紀錄與使用者身份,另對以上措施不足之處,提供未來精進措施之規劃,於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。」提案人委員王育敏、陳金輝、廖偉祥、楊瓊英 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12072.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12095.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
立案為保障兒少身心健康,原要求衛生福利部就如何增加與改善目睹家暴兒少之輔導支持資源以及提高民間團體合作建置兒少領航員輔導支持資源中心之意願。」於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告提案人委員王育敏、陳金輝、廖偉祥、楊瓊英 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12097.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12102.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
第九案有鑒於托育人員專業訓練課程、托育人員在職訓練課程實施計劃、兒童及少年福利機構專業人員訓練實施計劃、師資及課程內容及教材編轉現存諸多問題,請衛生福利部於一個月內研擬前述課程計劃加入而略評估專業智能並明定時數 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12119.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12148.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
施資規定、課程內容及教材,請衛生福利部於兩個月內提出縣市訪市輔導管理如何統一之改善做法,供立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會委員審視以明確行政程序,請衛生福利部於一個月內調整額略數據分類方式,供立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會委員審視以明確行政程序。」提案人委員林月琴、連署人委員王振旭、黃秀芳宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12149.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12172.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
請問第一案行政單位有無意見?有關於第一案的話,大概可行性不高因為醫院裡面的放射診斷科的工作是包括要去打放射影像的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12173.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12190.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
打報告這個一定是醫師來做的因為他是一個診斷的工作所以如果由醫師、放護師來做的話他就沒有辦法做好這件事情所以這部分的話我想可能不是很適當 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12198.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12209.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
提案的原則其實是這是一個原則我們希望如果當醫院本身有這樣的人才人力的時候就是還是盡量由這個放射診斷科醫師來 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12211.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12235.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
來處理,雖然他的工作量會比較大,不過如果以這樣的文字敘述的話,希望是一個原則性的提案,讓他能在執行上會比較能夠有所依據。」這個部分也跟各位報告,大概就是說這一個方設診斷科的主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12238.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12252.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
現在之所以說在有一些不利醫院裡面是沒有辦法找到的原因並不是說沒有醫師是因為他不是公職的醫師啦他是約聘部的醫師 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12253.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12271.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12275.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12296.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
所以我會建議就說是不是說我們就說研議就說讓這一個非公職醫師那可以來兼任這樣子會比較比較比較有幫助啦那這我們來研議看看同意是 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12298.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12315.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那那個文字修正是這邊?好,那等一下文字修正之後再送到主席台確認。好。可以齁?好,那我們先第二案,行政單位有沒有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12332.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12356.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
第二案沒有意見第二案沒意見那就照案通過第三案第三案的部分我們建議從倒數第二行那邊對於人力短缺者原本是予以夜班費獎勵我們建議把它修正為對於人力短缺者 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12358.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12372.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
演繹予以獎勵方式把那個夜班費那個刪掉這樣會比較有一個更大的空間來處理這個部分好那委員有沒有意見同意後面就是獎勵後面加兩個字方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12373.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12394.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
好,那就照文字修正通過。好,那第四案。第四案,我們從倒數第四行,要求衛福部含請教育部就三年內校園調查屬實且未經兒少法裁罰知失對生不當對待案件,這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12397.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12411.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
已請社政主管機關評估依法裁處,並請將辦理情形於三個月內提供給立法院社環委員會。」以上文字。好,那委員有沒有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12412.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12435.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
我想要先說一下,我知道目前有工作上的困難,所以衛福部希望改成是調查屬實的才要移送,可是我還是要再次強調,之前在很多校園案件調查當中,其實岳勤委員有提過,很多案件可能有失失相互的狀況,其實我們當時是希望衛福部可以一併調查,可是我們考慮到工作量,我們目前就先針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12436.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12437.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
行政單位有意見嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12466.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12494.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
好,那就照案通過。第六案行政單位有沒有意見?呃,證照辦理。好,那就照案通過。第七案?第七案也沒有問題。好,那就,好,那就照案通過齁。啊,第七案,是金管會,是金管會法,呃,警政署。第七案? |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12498.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12522.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
招案通過好那第八案第八案是倒數第三行這個支輔導支持資源然後加強與民間團體合作於一個月內向衛環委員會提出書面報告好那委員會委員OK好那就照文字修正通過第九案 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12524.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12545.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
第九案分成三段第一段在請衛福部於年底前研議前述課程計劃然後第二段是兩個月是不是可以修改成三個月第三段也是在衛福部一個月我們建議修正為三個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12546.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12570.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
嚴易調整額內數據分類方式。」那委員有特別要求結果要告知委員。我們正告辦理。委員有沒有意見?沒有意見。好。那就照文字修正通過。那臨時提案全部處理完畢。接下來請黃珊珊委員發言。在這邊做一個宣告。我們第一案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12577.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12591.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我先做一個宣告,中午不休息,質詢到登記委員發言結束再休息。好,那委員那不好意思我先請他們,好那剛剛那個臨時提案的第一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12593.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12620.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
對我先確認一下就是基於事實請衛生福利部研議科署管剛剛部長有提到如果說現在在執行上有的確有他困境或者是無法執行的部分不然我們先測案好了那以後我們再來處理好不好好那就第一案就測案好那接下來請黃珊珊委員發言好的請薛部長謝謝主席請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12625.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12654.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
委員好是部長我們上一次在這裡質詢我也看到你的報告裡面我很在乎的就是112年8月到現在你們受理移除的新影像有767件然後你們的報告一直說完成的只有665件成功率達到86.7%我一直很想知道剩下的那十幾趴到底是怎麼回事是他不移還是移不掉還是不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12655.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12671.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
這個部分的話有一部分是因為我們之前的規範都是這個邀請地方政府來邀請地方政府地方政府沒有做還沒有完成還沒有完成所以要多久完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12672.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12699.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
地方政府怎麼可以不完成?我比較好奇的是它有實現嗎?然後為什麼它可以不做?我們是看到說113年3月31的時候我們統計是還有102件沒有完成但是到4月22的時候就增加了32件是已經移除所以有100多件還在架上 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12700.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12715.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
封網的有22件所以還沒有移植大概還有48件48件48件還在架上但是我們通報了還沒下架所以部長你覺得這個效率你滿意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12717.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12730.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
當然做有待加強。」如果他已經被通報也明明要下架他48件還在架上我們在這裡開了這麼多次的質詢有什麼意義嗎?所以這48件我只需要知道什麼時候可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12731.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12748.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我們會禁訴,如果他還在侵害我們的兒少,這件事情是不可以容忍的。如果已經經過衛福部相關的主管機關都已經通報到地方政府去,他還在架上,這件事情是沒有辦法向國人交代的。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12749.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12757.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
法務部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12770.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12794.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
屏蔽,法院也准了,單單換個名字,第二天就復活了。」那我想知道這665件有沒有復活的狀況?還有你剛剛講的48件還活在上面的,這邊700多件加上你新通報的件數有沒有在追蹤,它還有沒有跟那個案子一樣,壯義私房的案子一樣重新復活? |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12795.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12812.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
跟我們報告移除下架是不會有復活的那個是網站才會是移除下架就是說我們要他他在那邊不復活了嘛他不會再復活了好所以不會再有了如果像創意私房這樣他是整個被屏蔽掉的目前剛剛講你也有很多件嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12813.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12831.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那一些有沒有再復活?這我們會再追蹤那部分是有22件22件他可不可能再復活?我們什麼時候追?追了沒?我們就必須要再追蹤所以還沒追因為我們這要主動去尋訪才看得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12831.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12853.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
所以我沒有要求你全部尋我只要求你尋這些已經被你屏蔽掉但是他是不是換個名字再復活這22件給我們一個簡單的追蹤報告我們會盡量再追蹤這其實是為什麼政府已經在關心而且也通報到然後他竟然還可以繼續存在甚至也下不了架 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12854.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12876.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
這是讓國人沒有辦法接受而且要新聞鬧這麼大我們的訴發部突然間做得到讓我們嚇一跳所以顯然做得到以前沒想到現在要繼續往修法的方向走我們看到你的修法方向不錯但是這個裡面我想問一下部長我沒有考慮過像比照性侵害防治條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12878.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12894.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
將所謂的這些加害人尤其是兒少性影像數位性暴力的這些行為人我們考慮給他比照相關性侵害的應該說是被告好了加害人他做相關的處遇或者是強制治療嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12896.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12921.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
這個是我們在這個是有這樣子的相關的一些所以新的法規裡面會增加這個行為人處於的部分嗎但是有一些這還是必須要做判斷有一些其實他在我們反社會人口為常的他這個治療是無效的也是無效但是我們要不要加入這方面的處於計畫寫在我們新要修正的法案裡面原來是任務 輔導教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12922.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12935.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
我們本來的法條裡面就有輔導教育是那對於他的這些後續不是只有輔導教育可能最後比較可能最後要強制治療強制治療可能也是不是要入法才行 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12937.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12961.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這個可能還是需要再討論啦因為我剛剛提到強制治療它的效果可能不見得好但是我們如果連強制治療的機制都沒有就更沒有機會啦如果是那種輕度的認知認知不正確啦等等這些的話就是經由輔導部長我的意思是說如果有這種人我們不要掛一漏萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12961.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12980.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我們少了這個制度就沒有機會但是有可能效益不好我同意但是我們增加了這個機會我是認為說以司法的方式去做處理會比較好司法處理是比較好因為這治療效果不好這等於是浪費這個社會的自由但是如果這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12981.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12997.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
需要協助治療的我覺得政府還是有必要讓他有機會得到這樣的協助就像酒飲跟毒飲不見得他一定要用強制的方式但是我們要給他這樣的選擇你懂我的意思嗎我們有這樣的選擇的機會那最重要的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12998.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13016.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我希望在你修法裡面很清楚的是後續的剛剛講的這些需要追蹤的我希望一個星期把剛剛我所問的這些內容你們追蹤的計畫提供給本席謝謝好謝謝黃珊珊委員的發言接下來請何新淳委員發言謝謝主席黃昭文我們請部長請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13032.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13048.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
本席也有提出這個兒少性剝削防治條例那其中我提的版本裡面有一點就是剛剛黃委員所提到的這個所謂的在這個強制治療要不要入法雖然你說這個強制治療不見得有效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13049.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13064.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
但是呢我的條款裡面是如果呢他是經判刑有罪那或還起訴處分者經評估還是經過專業的評估因為就像你講的這個有可能有程程度的不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13065.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13069.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
懲罰人員的身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體、身體 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13082.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13104.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
你支持嗎?我是認為該有這樣子的機制那我也尊重專業那我希望把它入法至於文字可以怎麼來斟酌我覺得這是可以在委員會討論但是這個方向我是請部長要支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13105.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13123.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
這第一個。第二個,在我的版本裡面,我們現行的條文是持有,就會有相關的這個行者,那我現在又加了一個,如果是用金錢或對價關係取得而持有的,更加加重,那這個方向部長你支持嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13124.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13142.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
這我支持因為這涉及到這種金錢的一種所謂的經濟行為的會是主要會是引導引導這種犯罪行為的增加我們常常看到有很多個案有一些青少女或者是青少年或者是兒童就是因為這樣子被誘導的 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13143.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13165.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
被利誘,他在身心心理狀況可能還不是很成熟的情況之下,他比較不會分辨,那有可能就受害了。」所以這個部分我希望部長要支持。那我第二件事想跟部長談一個制度是什麼?在上一次凱凱案的時候,事實上我有觀察,部長你知不知道現在全台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13167.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13178.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
中途家庭或者是寄養家庭的數目字是正在減少當中你知道嗎?就是因為為什麼?你認為呢?當然就是說願意做從事這一個工作的人也會減掉當然另外當然就是風險也高 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13191.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13217.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
是啊,所以我們如果把風險降低,那就是是不是能夠更系統化、更制度化、更專業化的來支持他們,或是給予相關的輔導嘛。那第二個,我們如何再重建這個中途家庭跟寄養家庭,希望能夠數字可以逐漸的增加,因為這牽涉到什麼?這牽涉到我們如何安置這些需要受保護的孩子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13218.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13234.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這個部分的話其實是要好好去做思考目前為止我沒有看到衛生福利部對這個有什麼要思考這一個寄養家庭之所以減少這當然有很多的原因其中有一個就是說年齡層的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13236.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13249.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
以現在的寄養家庭,他比較不願意去收那種很小的小孩子,因為他風險高嘛,寄養家庭其實是年齡的這些...那我們是不是要思考有沒有解決的對策? |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13252.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13270.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
所以說對於那種很小的小孩子的話目前呢送到保姆的系統也不是這個就是又是另外一個問題我就是想再跟部長討論所以我們現在有很多年紀比較小的年齡層比較小的我們呢是送到保姆端那保姆這一次凱凱恩就是保姆出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13270.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13291.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那我想請教的是,那我們如果送給這些保姆,請他們來安置這些兒童,不管是短暫或是長時間的,除了金錢上的這個給付之外,那我們有沒有對保姆的專業要求?要不要受訓?要不要認證?保姆的認證是一般保姆的認證,我說針對這些需要被保護的孩子,被安置的孩子, |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13301.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13328.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
這個就是我記得之前在質詢的時候我曾經回答過就是全日拖啦如果他這種保姆一般來講的照顧的話都是日拖的那晚上就是回到自己的家裡面去那父母親是可以看得到的所以虐待的情形就會比較少但是你全日拖的話這種家庭基本上已經功能已經失去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13329.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13348.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
家裡的人也不會看得到,所以等於說整個全天候的都在這保姆的家裡面,那這樣子的話他的風險就會特別高,因此這種全日拖的保姆,他必須要有更好的一些訓練,更好的監督。那我們現在衛生福利部有沒有這樣的機制?應該我們會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13352.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13379.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
現在正在研擬當中嘛對不對就表示之前沒有嘛對啦你們現在就在研擬當中就是表示之前沒有嘛之前沒有的話那我們就是不管是社工人員也好或是地方政府的相關的承辦人員也好他不知道該怎麼辦那又必須要安置這樣的孩子所以他只能選擇他知道的他找的到的有意願的保姆送嘛那至於這個保姆到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13380.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13398.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
到底有沒有夠專業,到底有沒有認知到這個需要受保護安置的孩子的身心狀況,或是他有什麼特殊的狀況,那需要特別的照顧,這個保姆不知道嘛,這個地方政府也不知道嘛,社工也不知道嘛,所以我們如何制度性的去面對這個問題,解決這個問題,我覺得這個是我們衛生福利部要做的。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13403.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13430.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
好不好?那什麼時候你說年齡當中那什麼時候可以讓我們看得到草案?需要多久的時間?現在那個是在那個托育專法裡面要把這個放進來那托育服務法這個專法會跟那個兒犬法的修正大家一起需要多久的時間?目前應該是討論到最後了那可能快 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13432.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13451.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
已經在預告了已經在預告了已經在預告了好那我希望能夠盡速啦那而且呢在現在預告在未來公告執行之前我們現在針對去盤點一下現行有在承接這些安置兒童的這些保姆們我們如何去支持他們輔導他們增加他們的專業資能 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13454.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13470.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
才能夠好好的保護我們的孩子,那大家才能夠共好啊,而且大家才能夠提供一個相對雙方都安全的環境嘛。」是不是?好不好?部長,拜託,謝謝。好,謝謝何新淳委員發言。接下來請黃國昌委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13479.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13491.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
謝謝主席麻煩有請衛福部部長、法務部的檢察司司長、司法院邵家廳的副廳長那個法官要上來協助也很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13512.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13541.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
二、三位好,是有關係,不亦問候。兒少性剝削的人數接接攀升當然這個是通報的狀況從2017年1060人到2022年我現在有的data已經到2280人了除了人數不斷攀升以外讓人最觸目驚心的是裡面拍攝製造兒童或少年性交或猥褻行為的物品這一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13542.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13568.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
樣態的違法太樣比例不斷的在攀升如果我們以2022年來講已經到了86%了相當高的比例都是這個類型的犯罪那衛福部也說了事實上我們看到人數不斷攀升比例再那麼高其實黑數還是很大因為牽涉到了被害人他是不是真的在目前的法律機制下有足夠的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13570.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13586.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
讓他願意出來這真的是一件不容易的事情因為他可能會造成的是他自己的社會生活、既有的家庭生活、人際關係都會造成非常大負面衝擊的影響這個我們大家都了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13588.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13615.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
那接下來就是說我們目前持有兒少性影像的處罰沒有正當理由是一年以下有期徒刑從比較法的觀點來看我們應該是延續著日本的法律跟德國比跟美國比相對而言都是輕嘛那現在的問題來了就是說目前這樣子的法定刑從法務部的角度或是從行政機關的角度認為有沒有調整的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13616.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13639.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我們認為是有再調整的必要,不過也跟我們報告,這一個把它變成一個刑事責任還是在去年修的時候才接的是是是,來請法務部認為這樣的法定型有沒有調整的必要我們尊重權者機關,我們也贊同權者機關的就認為有調整的必要嘛,好來請司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13640.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13649.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
你們之於支持依照性影像數量的多寡、被害人的年齡、內容、加害的程度、加害者的資歷、訂立不同的量刑基準 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13651.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13671.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我們尊重那個有權責機關的來權責機關就你們啊量刑基準不是司法院嗎是那我們那個什麼還尊重權責機關我老天啊對不起我的意思是說這個量刑設定量刑的基準我們目前有在討論那個量刑的什麼時候討論得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13674.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13697.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
問題很嚴重啊!速度要快啊!沒有關係啦!因為今天主席請邵家廷來嘛!沒關係把我的意見帶回去給刑事廳啦!這個事情絕對不能再拖二二一了!接下來第二個問題也是在網路上面造成非常多網友的困擾就是虛擬人物圖畫的問題嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13699.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13723.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
這個牽涉到我們在2023年修法的時候第二條的修法理由我全部都拜讀完了我看完了以後他造成了一個很大的困擾那個困擾就是虛擬的圖畫到底算不算規範的範圍當中那衛福部之前說要訂執法現在還有要訂嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13725.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13744.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
沒有,現在大概就是我們會用一個解釋的方式來做出解釋什麼時候做出來?正在前半當中啦解釋內容是什麼?有幾個,第一個就是說實際真實人物的部分的話那當然就是不用說 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13746.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13765.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那虛擬的部分的話,原則上是不管,但是有幾個,那個女真的、AI女真的要放進來。第二個就是說,如果它涉及到,比如說人社交啦,這個虐待啦,這暴力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13765.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13791.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那這部分的話就回到刑法所以虛擬人物的創作不會在規範範圍當中嗎?對,原則上是不會動漫化的但我現在就要講得很清楚了就是說4月的時候李立芬次長好像有對外面表示說動漫的部分會依照違反刑法235條來加以處理這個是衛福部的政策立場嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13792.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13804.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
這是說他的內容如果有這種我的意思是說啦就是回到刑法對不會用兒少性剝削防治條例來處理是這是衛福部的立場嘛對來法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13807.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13834.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
衛福部這樣子的立場法務部同意嗎?我們尊重權責機關的先停一下不要尊重權責機關啊因為犯罪事實啊移到法務部啊檢察官用什麼條文起訴才是大家關心的事啊這個不是說衛福部剛表明他們的立場嗎所以我現在問法務部的立場法務部要有立場啊這個可能會過成散布偽物品罪所以你們會不會用兒童性剝削防治條例處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13837.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13862.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
這裡要講清楚啊你真AI的話就沒有你真AI當然就不用講嘛動漫的部分會不會講清楚啊動漫的部分就回歸到刑法散佈猥褻物品所以不會用兒少性剝削防治條例法務部立場要講清楚讓所有的檢察官聽到是4-617號來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13865.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13881.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
所以不會用兒童性剝削防治條例處理對不對?是嗎?政策立場上嘛當然個案上面可不可以拘束檢察官我老實講啦我作為法律人士有個超級大問號啦行政機關都這樣講但檢察官行使職權是獨立的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13884.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13899.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
市長我有沒有講錯沒錯對嘛所以這件事情法務部要想清楚啊是你們在政策採取這樣的立場你下一步你馬上要去思考說那會拘束檢察官嗎這個問題很重要啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13900.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13921.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
法務部回去好好研究好不好要透過什麼樣子的手段我們可以合法的讓全國的檢察官知道這個條文使用上面要很慎重我們要打擊該打擊的人不要濫殺無辜法制作業上要怎麼做法務部回去好好研擬清楚好不好好我為什麼會講這件事情因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13926.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13938.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
用針孔攝影機偷拍兒少洗澡有沒有違反性剝削及防治條例第36條的規定?」衛福部說有嘛法務部說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13943.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13966.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
法務部呢?有嘛!但問題來了目前實務上面我國法院的見解有的說有罪有的直接宣告沒有罪為什麼會宣告沒有罪?跟2023年的修正又有關係啦主席站起來但是這題很重要我趕快把它講完請司法院帶回去好好研究這不是開玩笑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13967.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13981.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
之前地方法院說在被害人不知情的情況下用針孔攝影機偷拍兒少洗澡這一定是違反兒少性剝削防治條例36條的規定也判有罪了高等法院也維持這樣的見解了但 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13983.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14005.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
最高法院110年度台上制1847號刑事判決,援引2023年修法理由以後的見解。」出來的見解是什麼來我唸給大家聽喔。被告以偵恐攝影機偷拍假女洗澡的電子訊號有沒有符合俄上性剝削防治條例第二條第一項第三款及紅條例36條的性影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14008.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14023.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
最高法院提出質疑發回了以後要高等法院好好注意發回以後發生什麼事情沒罪為什麼他在客觀上不是引起他人信譽的舉動或行為的猥褻行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14024.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14036.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
法官獨立審判我們一定尊重但當我們的司法實務上面出現了一人一把號各吹各的調甚至有的結論我們從保護兒少的觀點容我這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14040.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14067.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
難以接受啊難以接受啊這個實務上的動態喔衛福部也好法務部也好司法院也好要清楚的掌握要不然立法者在這邊立了半天結果法院判沒有罪放人大家都不知道這不是開玩笑的事情欸這個最高法院的見解接下來要怎麼處理要怎麼面對衛福部、法務部、司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14068.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14094.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
你們召開一個聯合的會議討論一下好不好因為我覺得這件事情很嚴重啊部長您贊不贊成這在我們的核酸性剝削的諮詢委員會裡面我們就找這些單位議員法務部同不同意?同意司法院同不同意?同意要怎麼處理這件事情喔?趕快有一個解決的方法提一個書面報告來給大家好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14095.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14116.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
一個月內可以嗎?可以。可以齁?好,謝謝。好,謝謝黃國昌委員發言。接下來請李燕秀委員發言。謝謝召委。我會請部長。請薛部長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14123.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14147.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
部長從長賜到部長期間其實過去這段時間我雖然有四年中間離開立法院但是其實跟您交手的機會跟您互動的機會其實非常多我們也希望上台下台其實我們高度跟身影其實都非常非常重要在這過程當中你經歷了COVID-19的疫情 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14148.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14174.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
其實也經歷了包括暴零案子等等暴零食堂的案子我覺得大家都經歷很多的挑戰但是經歷過挑戰之後我覺得大家都在看在很多制度面上我們有沒有調整得更好是重點部長那我也要跟您討論就是說有幾個案子其實上次我們有答詢過但是我覺得我還是要注意一下進度我們擔心說很多議題政策的推動會不會人去政席 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14175.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14194.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
包括第一個我們長期關注的包括衛福部公告的護理人員夜班的獎勵方案我想你非常清楚因為之前引起很大的風波因為醫學中心區醫院跟地區醫院那個實在是差太多每一班大夜班加1000塊地區醫院加800小地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14197.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14212.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
地區區議院加800,地區議院加600。」那後來有調整新的發言引起反彈之後因為物理人員流動會非常快心也非常的浮動那新發言已經出來了上個禮拜我在我財政委員會我特別問了主計長我說這個預算是1.13億 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14216.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14230.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
那上次我問衛福部的時候您回答我說這個還要再上簽但是後來我問主席長,主席長說錢都在那邊啊無論是義後的紓困預算或是你們自己的預算其實你自己動用就可以不需要再簽到他那邊了這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14232.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14251.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
因為我要代替所有,因為地區醫院很多護理人員都在關注這件事情,我也不希望,我想你我都不希望護理人員有太大的流動,對不對?所以這筆錢到底什麼時候會下來?目前我們本來是要希望能夠動用200億的公務預算補助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14256.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14274.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
但是現在就是我們原先預估的27億27億的這個月班費第一階段那這部分的話算起來會有剩餘所以大概可以cover這1.3億所以什麼時候會應該最近那個健保署要簽上來給我了 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14275.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14284.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
這禮拜有機會嗎?一、兩個禮拜之內好不好?一個禮拜之內我們馬上簽出來謝謝部長第二個我關注的議題其實就是有關我今天其實有聽到其他委員在問這個議題就是有關電價上漲對醫療院所的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14301.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14322.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
特別對於小型的醫療診所偏鄉還有一般的醫療診所其實都有很大的衝擊那上次在跟在院會的時候答詢的時候你們有在研擬一些方案那現在行政程序上到底討論到哪個進度到底有沒有機會因為電價漲其實後續的成本整個都在漲還不只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14323.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14347.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
診所長而已所以部長因為這件事情在衛福部這邊是比較沒有著力的點因為我們沒有預算沒有補貼的這個電價的預算據我所知在行政院討論的時候他是打算用要補貼給台電的一千億裡面去處理因為包括一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14348.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14352.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
社會福利及衛生福利及衛生福利及衛生福利及衛生福利及衛生福利及衛生福利及衛生福利及衛生福利及 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14367.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14396.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
我希望我們再努力一下好不好好不好下個星期我希望可以有一些具體的答案出來因為這都是代表你照顧基層醫療院所以聽到他們的聲音過去他們配合我們在疫苗政策上在家庭醫療制度上我覺得他們都協助很多偏鄉也是所以我覺得這個沒有什麼圖利的問題我們也希望在現階段一下子上漲造成後續的衝擊其實都非常大所以這一塊我也希望部長可以協助那最後一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14397.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14419.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
部長最近腸病毒的狀況其實非常嚴重那也是歷年來十年來的新高門診跟急診的就醫人次在3月份最後一週增加到20%將近21%病例增加的幅度其實是非常高的我們都知道說腸病毒其實很重要是多洗手除了用肥皂洗手在醫學上 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14419.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14438.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
自律酸水也具有很好的殺菌的效果。」很多醫生都說表示說適合用手部滅菌包括這個自律酸水滅病毒等等在國際間其實也有很多人使用這樣的見解其實我們有沒有機會多宣導多鼓勵那有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14439.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14439.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
負責負責負責負責負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14460.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14481.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
病毒把他衝掉了所以一般如果因為要用次氯酸水的話他的普及性可能沒有那麼高現在最多的這一個流行會是在學校尤其是小孩子、幼兒園等等這些這些的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14483.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14504.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
是不是都能夠在洗手的地方都能夠配置這個而且沒關係我覺得這個就是宣導次氯酸水具有良好的殺毒毒殺的效果其實有很多醫界醫生都表示適用於手部的滅菌啊滅病毒等等因為不是每個地方其實都剛好有肥皂也可以洗手所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14505.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14508.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部長：一、邀請衛生福利部長：一、邀請衛生福利部長：一、邀請衛生福利部長：一、邀請衛生福利部長：一、邀請衛生福利部長：一、邀請衛生福利部長：一、邀請 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14521.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14544.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這是我的建議那最後一個要討論到今天的議題部長我上次跟您答詢就是說有關輔導教育的功能包括在性剝削上的您上次提到說有一些課程上的輔導其實我們都覺得效果其實不好要檢討輔導教育的功能那您上次回答我說你們會檢討那這個政策檢討因為看一看影片其實對於這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14547.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14558.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
加害者也好或者是這些犯罪的目的這些人其實我覺得效果並不好我們要怎麼調整是重點所以這一塊我們會不會有進度檢討的進度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14560.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14581.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
這部分的話其實明天我們會開會就會討論這一塊目前的話可能是這樣子對於這些加害人可能要先做評估因為有一些其實真的是輔導教育這種強制治療大概的效果都不好但是有一些還是有他的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14584.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14602.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
可以個別做心理的輔導。」這是我長期所關注的。我希望矯正的功能很重要,可以好好的落實。要看啦,要看它的實際上的差異性。對,我知道。所以部長我們還是要做,因為每一次藉由討論,我們的法令更完整、更周延,其實是最主要的目的。好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝李燕秀委員。接下來請洪孟凱委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14619.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14619.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
來,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14626.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14655.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
委員好。好,部長好。部長上一次在兒少性剝削專報裡面我就提出來說應該要成立數位犯性犯罪的專責單位斬斷非法的金流以及建立兒少犯罪資料庫三個政策方向當時也獲得你這邊的一個承諾然後來去做所以4月19號本席也看到了你有召集司法院法務部、內政部、訴發部、NCC以及金管會來召開修法的方向對不對?對 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14656.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14679.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
但是本席認為我們真的要玩真的以及真的要嚇阻犯罪的狀況還有最重要就是說我們要有效其實兩大方向一點簡化封網的流程跟主動搜尋相關網站以及金流那還有第二點是針對非法的金流要有效的嚇阻有效的阻斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14680.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14691.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
來第一我先請教一下我們這邊在4月19號裡面有提到是說增訂相關機關運用網路科技主動偵查兒少性影像案件這個會有哪個機關來去做負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14693.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14693.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
主責單位。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14711.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14725.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
這部分的話我們目前的規劃是這樣子的因為這一個有一個科技偵查法那現在在行政院他的主管機關應該是在內政部吧法務部是在法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14727.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14752.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
但是那個法要通過可能要有很長的一個時間所以現階段我們預計大概是會由衛福部來委託就是說委外來做辦理那當然要做封網這個動作的話屬於行政處分這還是衛福部必須要負責但是前面的這些用科技的方法來幫我們去做這種搜尋的話那我們是可以來委外來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14753.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14772.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
衛福部委外部辦理為什麼本期認為說這很重要因為兒少性剝削如果說就這個案件來講所謂的這個私房啊這個私房一般人其實是不知道但它存在多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14772.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14792.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
就媒體的報導他已經存在很久而且會員招收很多所以這有點類似說內行人一個簽一個一般社會大眾不知道但是有內行人專門管道一個簽一個那代表說這樣犯罪其實行之有年那如果說我們沒有主動的去偵查的話恐怕不是因為這一次有所謂的這個藝人的事件爆發 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14792.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14819.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
我們還不知道說到底有受害多久所以這當然要主動去偵查所以主動的部分是由衛福部這邊來做預計多久會成立這樣的一個單位目前我們先有幾個步驟嘛第一個就是要先找這個相關這方面領域的一些專家來討論也就是說我們那個招標的這個規格會用一個標案然後會去委託公司來去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14820.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14834.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14837.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14862.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
好,所以看起來是部長有信心在卸任之前能夠有這樣的一個標案出來,是不是?是,我希望是可以做得到啦好,來,部長那另外一個部分喔本席有提到是說金流很重要為什麼?殺頭的生意有人做賠錢的生意沒人做為什麼會有這麼多人明明知道說這是違法的但是他還去做,是因為武漢級啦那怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14862.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14884.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
把非法的金流給阻斷這很重要一個是非法金流阻斷另外一個就我加重你犯罪成本讓你知道說你賺這種黑心錢貪心錢你要付出一旦被抓到你要付出的成本很高那我請教在這一次裡面沒有召開兒童少年性剝削的這個修法方向的部分針對盈利或者是販售 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14886.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14904.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
你們有沒有做討論?有那預計我們最高因為我們委員有好幾個我自己也有提出相關的修法版本那我們這個行政部門這邊預計如果說你是拿兒童性影像來去做盈利或販售的話我們現在期待最高要處多少的罰款跟多少的刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14906.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14915.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
我們行政單位建議本來的條文裡面意圖營利就是有加重處罰現在是我們這一次的修完我們的建議的條文裡面是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14916.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14936.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
把這個付費者付費者這個部分的話也把它入法就是說要去處罰本質疑完全接受我也認為是說你有你去持有跟說你花錢去購買兒少性影像這個是完全不同的你是等於是你花錢購買這要加重處分但是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14939.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14954.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
公給的部分。」等下再講嘛制毒跟販毒是一樣是一樣的這個刑責嘛應該是要更嚴格的一個處罰嘛那一樣我現在講的是說盈利或者是說販售的話我們在這一次有沒有提出相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14955.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14975.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
這一次倒沒有特別這個因為本來的條本來的條文就有加這種期限二分之一本來是一到七一年加二分之一這是本來的條文就有的那是否需要再增加這我想這我有看到很多的委員版本甚至有建議說三年以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14976.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15004.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
或五年以上銀利的部分。」我覺得這事實的可能之後我們主條可以再討論但是重點在於是說加強他的犯罪成本我覺得這是應該的那還有最後你們今天4月19號的開會討論裡面沒有講到任何關於怎麼樣阻斷非法金流有討論啦但是你們今天提出來的部分沒有任何違法金流的一個阻斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15005.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15028.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
所以我們現在在講的很多討論的很多都是講說我怎麼樣抓到我怎麼樣能夠讓他嚴刑立法但是現在的問題是不是抓不到他有可能他海外第一抓不到第二是他在海外持續有賺錢之前有很多的這種論壇有變形因為數位影像所以他複製很容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15029.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15042.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
也因此今天封了A論壇他可能複製之後他直接再B換一個IP或是換一個這個架設又再上網那如果說我們等到查到然後我們再去封網他又換成C |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15043.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15064.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
金流的部分怎麼樣阻斷?所以這一個部分為什麼我們那個19號討論的時候沒有結論的原因沒有結論沒有具體有討論但沒有結論是大家在互相拖拖因為在有一些技術上面的問題這個必須要相關的單位還繼續要去研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15067.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15075.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
所以這部分的話我們這一次的那個建議的條文就沒有把它放進來的原因是在這個地方部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15076.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15104.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
你這樣講啊本席打開天窗說亮話因為我覺得這個金流的部分就不應該只就衛福部一個部會這點本席站在客觀公允的高度本席剛剛也看了一下我們今天所有各部會的報告啊我也在拜託今天因為部會不是部長來所以我不要求你們上台但是真的請媒體朋友以及我們大家看直播的人也都看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15105.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15122.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
你的內政部也是講有賴跨部會的合作意思是內政部、警政署配合啦你的訴發部配合主管、中央主管機關的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15123.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15150.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
你的金管會全力協助司法警察機關的偵辦這三個部會都在踢皮球我講實在話你踢我我踢你如果再這樣下去的話我們足球的產業可以蓬勃發展六年教育部推動我們的足球產業提升倒不如我們幾個部會大家多踢幾次皮球非常難看 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15152.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15179.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
我真的講非常難看金流其實是非法集團他們引賴維生為什麼這些非法集團春風吹又生斬草除不盡就是因為他們賺得了錢那如果我們還要放任我們的兒少性影像是變成是非法集團的賺錢工具的話我們任何一個國人都沒有辦法接受所以不好意思抱歉什麼時候還在開會會把金流的這個部分給納進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15181.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15190.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我想說我們可以再安排啦可以再安排是什麼時候?你剛剛很有尬子520前你要成立這個專責小組那520前能不能再開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15191.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15209.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
讓大家看到是說到底是哪一個機關其實我說實在話金流沒有辦法阻斷你就很難保會有B會有C再出來明天我們有一個會啦那金管會也會在啦我們會再提這一個案子能不能更要求金管會金管會在4月16號派哪一個層級的人過來音姐派一項來 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15215.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15236.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
我其實問過金管會甚至主委我講是說你銀行內部的東西你管得很好但是除了銀行以外的好像都是疑問三部或是說都是三部管理的完全沒有關係的事情能不能要求更高層級的人一起來開會我們在聯絡的時候我們會特別跟他們提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15238.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15256.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
本席真的希望是完真的所以這是為什麼我肯定你有做的部分我肯定但沒做的部分我也要點出來讓大家看到其他部會還沒有跟上我真的認為說在這件事情上面衛福部相對來講有跑但其他部會沒有跟上大家還是覺得這是衛福部的事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15257.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15286.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
推給衛福部啊,那反正520前部長大家都歡迎批啊,所以就看誰接下來要處理這個爛攤子。能夠做事我肯定,但我更希望是各部會都要跟上。謝謝。謝謝。好,謝謝洪委員。我們接下來請陳培宇委員質詢。好,謝謝主席。那有請衛福部長,謝謝。學部長。部長辛苦了辛苦了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15290.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15315.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
衛生福利部長有一個有一個題目比較小先但是我覺得事情很大跟我們今天要討論的事情有關就是在你們目前交出來書面報告裡面提到關於這個人員的名單就是關於兒少性剝缺防治條例修法關於抓到這些人的人員名單目前你們只能說消極資格叫做不得任職於教職兒少機構還有司法機構可是有沒有討論到要不要對外公開這件事情那我們後續會追蹤目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15316.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15324.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
之前你們受訪的時候是說還沒有研議必須要相關修法那我們想知道你們目前關於這個人員公開的部分你們修法的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15327.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15351.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
他也是屬於兒少全法C-49條的部分所以會公開確定我們修法方向會往這裡走但是你們會提出來嗎我們辦公室當然也會提但是我要提出來這一次很多在修法委員上不管是加重刑責相關的處罰但是沒有人提到要不要把這些人名字公開這個非常危險所以我們會持續追蹤但是我們想要講到下一頁我們想要講到之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15352.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15370.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
我們先從個案來看起,去年暑假期間有新一組的夏令營老師對學生做性侵,然後已經有相關判決出來,可是他目前還在走司法流程。那不同於補習班、幼兒園、托兒所或是學校機構,我知道衛福部已經有在處理了,上個月的記者會我們提到,把教育部的部分也納進來,可是我們發現工作是刮鬍營,對 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15373.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15390.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
各式各樣的運動俱樂部,他們不受社福教育系統的管轄,他們用工商登記來登錄,所以這些大人,這些每天都會運動才藝科目接觸到小孩的大人,他們目前如果做出任何對兒少不利的行為,再三不管地帶。」我想要問一下部長怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15397.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15418.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
這部分的話可能要還是要需要再討論一下啦我基本上我的看法是這些的話應該還是比照都可以可以來做比照而上法新亞C49條他應該要公告對不對可是好我們來看一下也許之後是法務部司法院你們要出來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15418.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15436.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
我們往下跟衛福部討論其實我們辦公室之前也有邀請你們到我們辦公室來討論關於進入司法流程他可能還沒有走到最終判決的這些特殊的個案就如同新竹這個個案那他就會繼續在民間開課因為他還在走相關的判決就算一審有相關判決了 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15437.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15464.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
可是家長會緊張啊因為這個教練他已經確定判刑應該是三年多吧可是家長們會互相通告可是沒有在這個家長群組裡面的家長他們可能還是不小心就把孩子送到這個教練營隊裡面去可是我剛剛已經說他在工商登錄裡面所以就地方的教育局處跟社會局處都覺得不關他們的事情那我們要回到中央是中央要有相關法規讓地方教育局處等於遵守可是我要說這不是個案這會是通案 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15465.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15481.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
如果我們沒有更積極的態度,一個是我們要問相關的裁罰結果到底什麼時候才會出來?家長到底要等到什麼時候才可以查到行為人跟相關的機構?難道在所有司法判決結束之前,家長只能靠自救,然後口耳相傳,確保小孩不會被送到這些大人的手上嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15483.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15501.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
這當然齁在司法機關他們會採取一個誤而誤得可是我們之前跟司法機關討論要什麼時候回送然後要不要回送其實跟衛福部這邊也需要討論那當然我覺得大家會把行政主管機關的職責放在衛福部身上所以我們才會在衛福部今天上台的時候跟你們討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15503.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15513.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
你們如何更強制的跟相關司法機關的討論?你們其實不是不能處理,就算他在司法判決的這個路上,其實我們跟你們討論過,你們其實是有手上是有工具可以處理的,對嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15515.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15543.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
要不要請司長幫忙回答一下謝謝委員那這一次我們在修兒權法裡頭有特別把所有兒少不當對待不管是外人或家人那一旦是走刑事後面的訴追那我們有在法條裡頭要求檢警特別是這個後端已經裁罰已經確定判刑之後相關的資料要回到這個主管機關回到縣市那我們就會把這些資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15544.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15565.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
在九七條裡頭去做一些登記。」好那我再直接跟您討論還有這個不起訴的部分例如說以新竹這個個案有兩個孩子他們的當時說這個大人獲得不起訴處分是因為受害學童沒有辦法提供正確受害時間可是我知道後續有社工介入幫忙那關於這個不起訴的部分我們可以怎麼做? |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15569.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15591.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
這不起訴處分基本上就是...可是我們社工有進入去我們社工有介入去了解了嘛那衛福部這邊的態度跟角色呢我想家長會擔心的是這個因為我們今天所有在立法院討論這麼多複雜的法案啊然後入法怎麼修我覺得家長可能也沒有力氣跟時間可是對家長來說最直覺就是當我要把小孩送去某一個營隊我可以上CRC就是你們公布的那個網站去查 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15592.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15607.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
MOMOMO他有沒有觸犯了什麼法我可不可以放心把孩子交到他的手上可是如果我剛剛說的包含在走這個漫長司法判決的路上我們查不到這個人還有這個只是因為孩子沒有辦法正確提供受侵害的時間所以得到不起訴處分這個大人我們其實還是會擔心對嗎我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15610.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15624.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
現場的大人站在保護自己的小孩立場,我們也會擔心把孩子送到這樣的人手上,所以我們的訴求現在也有時間有限,謝謝。我們的訴求就是我們希望針對沒有納管的兒少相關機關,衛福部在三個月內要召集跨部會,包含教育部跟經濟部,盤點我剛剛說的營隊、工作室、運動俱樂部,這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15628.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15656.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
他並沒有立案在你們所認知的教育系統或者是衛福系統裡面的這些相關的大人跟環境必須要訂定兒少保護跟管理的機制再來就是兒童及少年保護通報分級分類處理的調查辦法裡面已經進入司法流程就如剛剛司長您說的不要讓它變成一個漫漫長路而必須要把司法跟行政雙軌並行讓社政及主管機關依照兒少權法先行採取行政裁法有沒有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15657.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15683.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
我想這應該是有啦那先簡單來講司法機關是對於犯罪的嫌疑人給他救救是沒錯但是行政機關可以做一個預防沒錯他的主要是預防所以如果說這一些不是個人而是說機構包括這一個教育部的機構衛福部的機構另外還有這一些不在這些你們主管的機構的範圍內但是不管是怎麼樣的機構的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15685.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15712.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
如果有出現這種行為,到某一個程度,比方說已經進入到偵查的情形,那我們就可以先行做預防性的,要用公告還是用什麼樣的方式的話,這可以再談,但是以一個就是說讓這一個同樣可以查詢得到的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15713.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15736.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
那以便就是說不要說再把小孩子送到送到這些裡面去尤其是那個人如果還在的話而且他可能還持續開課當中所以這裡面的話就是說是不是這一些的機構那要把這個當事那個嫌疑人的話先把他先解除掉職務或或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15737.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15738.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15767.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15769.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
主席有請部長請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15775.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15797.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
我們在討論就是兒童性剝削的這個狀況要怎麼樣去把它這個加以惡賭那我想先要檢視一下我們現在網路上兒童性剝削的現狀那根據臺灣警方的統計數據實際上網路兒童性剝削的案件是呈現逐年增加的趨勢對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15799.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15828.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
通報案次其實成案的也是越來越多2017年到現在我看到數據從1060人變成3346人成長了將近三倍那這案件當中很多是利用網路平台進行性剝削的行為包括兒童色情偷拍恐嚇那這些行為不僅造成兒童身心嚴重也對社會造成極大的危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15829.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15843.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那這也是為什麼現在這個創意私房這個事件引起大家極大的關注坦白講這個現象存在是早在創意私房這案件被揭露之前其實就開始越來越嚴重對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15845.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15872.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
的確是這樣子從我們的在處理的案件的數據來看的話是越來越厲害我這邊跟那個部長說因為坦白講我自己是覺得非常的憂心你就拿創意私房這個案件來看的話我不知道這個部長你覺得我對現在我們防治兒童性剝削目前的政府的投入我是有點悲觀的 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15873.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15876.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
我不知道部長你覺得樂觀還是悲觀?目前的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15878.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15904.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
這還是需要有很大的這個空間要去改善因為目前來講的話當然有一些是觀念上面要去注意比如說過去可能類似的對性影像這件事情並不把它認定說它是一個嚴重的事情因為沒有看到實際上的人受到這個侵犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15905.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15926.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
或感受會不一樣。」但是對兒童、少年來講的話因為他沒有自主就是說缺乏自主意識的能力所以才需要特別的去做保護那這個觀念的話必須要去讓我們全民都能夠理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15926.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15954.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
那以現在因為有這樣子的一個案子出來的話我想大概民眾方面都可以接受那再接下來就是政府機關包括司法機關要怎麼樣去跟上去的問題我剛剛跟部長說為什麼我是感到相當的憂心甚至悲觀因為我覺得目前看起來我們的作為當然是有啦但是比起說這個快速成長的案件數我覺得這個作為真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15955.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15971.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
他到底效力跟效果如何到現在其實我覺得還是難以驗證我舉個例子美國他有制定一個國家預防和防治剝削兒童的策略他是要透過立法執法教育公共政策多面向的綜合措施而且是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15972.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16000.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
跨單位跟跨國際的策略指南,目標就是有效預防跟打擊兒童性剝削。」可是剛剛部長其實剛剛講到說創醫施防的這個案件當中我舉四個面向就是說我們叫兒童性剝削第一個是強化法律規範對不對第二個是要加強執法力度嘛第三個是要提升公眾意識第四個是要加強國際合作可是因為剛剛部長一直在談的其實是第三塊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16001.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16017.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
就是提升公眾意識確實因為創意私房跟知名藝人他涉入確實公眾有意識到這些性影像他不單單只是性影像本身他背後可能產生的是一個兒童性剝削的一個產業鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16019.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16046.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
那這個當然在這個狀況之下我覺得政府部門要努力的告訴大家就是說不要變成兒童性剝削的共犯這是講說社會公共意識的部分可是法規當然現在我們在努力想要是加重某些刑度這是修法的方向可是另外兩個面向我目前說真的我不知道就加強執法力度還有加強國際合作因為都已經跨國化了我不知道現在我們的具體策略是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16047.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16061.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
對,那這一個部分的話,第一個就是說有關於,其實他第二個,剛剛委員提到的第二點,那就是比較在技術層面,技術層面我們必須要有這種技術能夠來破解這相關的這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16062.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16084.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
那這一個部分的話其實我們必須要把它看成什麼樣你有這樣的技術其實你也在做國安的保護包括恐怖的攻擊等等這方面其實都是相同的技術可以去對於這個網路上面的世界的話去做某種程度的預防的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16085.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16109.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
那最後一個就國際的合作的這部分的話,的確以台灣在國際的這種地位的話,其實在談國際合作是有它一定的困難度。但是也不是說沒有辦法去做處理,那我們也可以透過NGO的網絡來加入,來做這一方面的一些合作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16110.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16119.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
那再拜託部長跟我們的衛福部、我們的整個政府能夠在這方面再加強一下以上,謝謝好,謝謝羅志強委員,我們現在先休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16156.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16162.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
、民主、民主、民主、民主、民主、民主、民主、民主、民主、民主、民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16738.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16742.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
行政部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16761.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16778.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
國安部部長好今天我們大家在這裡討論都是怎麼樣讓我們的孩子國家的主人翁能夠有一個更好的環境台灣少子化已經是一個很大的都已經是國安問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16780.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16797.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
但是我們的孩子生出來之後,我們卻沒有辦法讓他們在一個安全的、快樂的、無憂無慮的環境成長,那這個其實是我們所有大人我們應該要為孩子創造的,那當然特別您是衛福部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16798.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16820.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
那我們今天針對因為這個創意私房這樣的一個論壇網站的事件引發了讓我們大家覺得對於兒少性影像防治的一些具體作為甚至我們應該檢討我們目前的做法乃至於我們兒童及少年性剝削防治條例的修正方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16821.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16838.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
那本席也看了你們的今天的這個報告那報告裡面寫了很多等於說貴部辦理了哪些事項但是本席更想提的是我們怎麼樣可以全面的來禁止 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16840.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16861.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
在整個社會上我相信只要是兒少的性影像我們都是禁止觀看的所以怎麼樣讓這樣的一個情況是他可以全面禁止我想說的是全面禁止兒少的性影像能夠會出現在我們的社會中甚至我們怎麼樣玩全面的禁止跟防治那 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16863.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16885.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
你們所做的已經做了,但是要達到這個目標,你們還缺什麼?你們的法律層面還缺什麼?你們的執行層面還缺什麼?部長您的看法?這部分的話,法律層面當然還有一些可以改善的空間所以我們這一次就是會修法有沒有考慮提專法? |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16888.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16912.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
全面的其實這就是一個專法,兒少性剝削條例就是一個專法其實現在怎麼樣去遏止這種性影像的這種犯罪或剝削的一個行為很重要就是因為這個性影像犯罪的傳播都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16914.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16930.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
依賴網路。」對所以我說的專法的意思是包含這個現在科技有一點也包含因為現在最大的問題確實就在科技層面現在網路層面嘛那你這個是法律層面嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16931.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16955.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
當然要去另外訂一個有關於網路犯罪的我們全面的來保護我們的這個兒童的這個法律的話我個人是也樂觀其成就是說有一個專法那專門在處理有關於網路犯罪的這警訊那是不是就有那個專法裡面有一些資源可以來投入 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16958.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16972.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
我拿一個具體的來說在你們的第二項這個有關性影像處理中心和提供諮詢服務你們提到應該要下架的成功移除86%那表示還有14% |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16974.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
17002.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
沒有移除的那什麼原因?這個部分的話是因為我們在原來的法規架構之下的話下架的話是有地方在做啦所以對所以這整個各種這就是執行層面嘛所以剛剛我說法律層面跟執行層面我們要達到這種我們希望給孩子的一個最安全而且最好的一個環境那法律層面跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
17003.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
17026.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
執行層面還需要積極作為的。」而不是說你做了什麼當然我們也覺得你們很辛苦做了很多但是我們是不是可以更有效的我們不希望一而再再而三的這樣看到然後再來再來你們第四點提供被害人保護輔助的這邊112年就去年提供心理諮商輔導的有1005人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
17029.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
17054.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
那這個是針對兒少性影像嗎?還是是整個包含成人?是只有兒少的部分?對,那這一千零五人,這一般都還會有黑數啊?保護的,沒有就是說我們提供出去的服務的,這不會是有黑數啊?不是啊,我是說提供已經有這麼多來諮商,那一定也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
17055.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
17084.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
沒有來的對沒有來的有多少其實像這些我們專責的單位是不是可以等於加強的我們是要主動積極的為我們的孩子創造這樣的環境還有很多該預防該幫他防範的想想看這麼多小孩這麼可憐其實你知道我們啊肉體的創傷容易撫平心理的創傷是最難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
17085.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
17100.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
所以甚至我們有些孩子他從小創傷他長大以後也會是可能沒有好好的輔導也會是社會的問題當然我們更重要的是我們就不希望我們的這個國家未來的主人翁受到這些傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
17101.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
17124.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
所以是不是可以有一些更積極的法律層面跟執行面的作為?能不能、可不可以,比如說在下個會期開始的時候,可以有書面的、完整的報告可以送來?我想如果立法院這邊有排報告的話,我們大概就會執行。好,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
17130.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
17134.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
衛生福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、金融監督管理委員會就 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
17156.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
17168.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、金融監督管理委員會就 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
17171.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
17193.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
第一部長之前您有提到依照統計數據的呈現年輕族群的自殺率有提高的趨勢所以在提出年輕族群的心理健康的協助所以我要請教一下就是說部長你知道我們全國各縣市當中哪個縣市的自殺率是最高的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
17199.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
17224.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
因為我目前可能要查一下資料好,那個沒關係我其實都查好了第一名是苗栗那實際的統計數據有點顛覆我們很多人的想像因為我想很多人應該都會跟我一樣覺得說大家就是說在都會區可能生活步調很緊湊那工作壓力、居住環境等等的因素就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
17225.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
17242.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
處於就比較高壓,那高壓到超過個人可以忍受的範圍,所以導致這個憂鬱甚至就是說自我傷害,然後最後輕生的這個狀況,感覺上這個邏輯推論起來是比較高的,但是我們看一下這個圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
17244.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
17260.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
這是去年的新聞,它統計2022年的這個自殺率的數據,那圖裡面的這個黑色底的數據就是高於平均值,那我換個方式呈現,我們再看一下這個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
17262.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
17275.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
我特別再關心一下這個花蓮台東的部分我們花蓮台東呢就是前五名那部長你覺得這樣的情形可能的原因是什麼有哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
17276.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
17291.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
當然因為這邊的自殺率是全人口那我們知道說這些自殺的這一個個案的這部分的話其實是以年紀大的為占多數 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
17292.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
17308.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
所以,從他這樣看下去的話,排名前面的可能都是老年化的、高年化的這一個線是比較高的,所以這也是可以來理解。對,那所以為什麼特別是這個? |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
17309.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
17327.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
老年人的部分自查率部長會認為是比較高?從統計數字來看,你覺得有哪幾個比較可能的原因?當然就是說,比如說久病,然後在照顧上面有問題,不管是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
17331.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
17349.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
雙勞互相照顧、獨居等等。」我想這個原因以外,我們追究這個原因以外,我想我更注重的是我們的對策是什麼?所以這個部分,我不曉得衛福部有沒有比較精進的作為? |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
17351.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17365.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
當然我是不是請我們市長來回答?好,謝謝委員關切這個議題,如同部長補充的那目前全台灣的數據是65歲以上的人口是自殺率最高那我們看年輕族群是因為他的自殺率上升最陡 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17366.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17387.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
所以當時是因為這樣的理由所以最高的還是如同部長講的所以如果說這個鄉鎮市的人口分佈是比較老化的的確它的自殺率就會比較高這是剛剛的一點補充那關於我們的因應作為呢我們目前是結合22縣市不管是醫師科還是我們的長照活動或是社家屬的相關活動我們大量的做老人的憂鬱症篩檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17388.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17417.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
因為根據我們去年國衛院的研究是顯示說老人的自殺呢核心的議題是他的憂鬱症沒有被篩檢出來那目前台灣65歲以上的人他的憂鬱症盛行率是16%一般人大概是10%所以說老人的憂鬱症必須要大量的被篩檢出來才可以提早介入提早治療那我們心理健康師結合社家署相關的活動在去年我們篩檢了65萬人次那我們轉介治療了高達4000多人所以這是我們的經濟作為我也是第一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17418.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17446.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
第一次質詢你所以我讓你多講一點然後我們單看這個一年的數據可能不太精確那接下來我想我們再看一下這個是成功大學的這個看見健康數據的資料他所呈現的是2018年到2020年的統計數據那麼這個花蓮也是明顯高於這個平均值這也是排名在前面那我們台東呢更是得到第二名 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17447.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17470.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
那或許有些專家會說因為這個偏鄉的這個醫療資源缺乏那醫院的密集度比較低被搶救的機會比較低其實這句話這個換句話說就是在偏鄉醫療資源比較比較少的地方可能就是你在那邊自殺成功率就比較高啦換句話講是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17473.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17488.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
雖然這是可能影響的因素但是我比較想了解就是說造成非都市居民比較容易有憂鬱傾向的因素又是什麼那為什麼就是又讓我們這個花東的人比較容易產生尋短的念頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17491.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17513.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
這可能有幾個因素,第一個就是說物質濫用的問題,物質濫用,比如說酒或是其他的一些毒品等等那一類的,這是一個可能的原因,但是在原先來講的話,這不見得是一個主要的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17516.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17532.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
那另外的話就是無業啦就沒有適當的工作啦這個也是也是一個那或許沒有適當的這個壓力排擠的地方或娛樂的地方可能也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17533.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17546.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
也有可能啦,但是我通常我是比較把政策放在主要的裡面我想重要就是說回歸到我剛剛講就是說到底怎麼樣幫助這些人可能還是最重要的那另外還有一個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17549.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17577.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
我看到也是非常憂心因為其實在我為什麼會特別提這個是因為我周遭的選民好幾位他們的孩子也是正當這個青壯年的20多歲30歲那就也是都自殺亡生的這很遺憾的那依照你們委託製作2030年原住民足健康照護中長城計劃的報告當中我看到了這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17578.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17598.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
那為什麼特別是就是說25到44歲的青壯年的原住民他們的自殺死亡率是高於這個全國的數據高出了將近五成那部長你覺得就是說這個是什麼原因那你們因應的這個對策又是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17600.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17615.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
這個部分的話其實跟剛剛我在報告的是有關係啦這有約略有提到一些啦這個我也瞭解有一些關係啦那在這一個生活上面因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17616.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17634.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
職業上面的不是收入讓收入不是很穩定的情形的話當然會造成生活壓力是比較高的所以你覺得說這些也是也是在原鄉發生比率會比較高嗎?這個因為這裡的統計是不是只有原鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17635.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17652.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
當然對沒錯因為因為我我我遇到的實際案例其實都發生在都會區他們也有不錯的工作對好其中的是對有他們的他們工作但是也是都跟高壓有關係啦好那我想是 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17653.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17677.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
是這樣子就是說有一個現象我要拜託部長特別注意一下那司長您剛就是應該接任也沒有太久啦我也請你注意一下因為我希望你們新建司可以多加加油因為從2022年你們成立到現在其實對於原住民的這個心理健康的這個重要的這些統計數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17679.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17701.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
你們這個司裡面的同仁一問三不知啊所以這個可能到最後責任都要司長來扛甚至部長來扛我覺得這樣也不是很理想那因為齁這個我今天秀出來這個是衛福部報告裡面的東西啊那我問你們就是說新建師說還有沒有其他更完整的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17702.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17711.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
結果呢你們完全都不知道就是說還有哪些原住民的自殺的這個數據的統計甚至你們有同仁反問我們說啊你們這個數據從哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17716.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17730.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
不就是你們衛福部委外的嗎?那我不管是不是興建師委外還是其他單位委外的,這些都跟你們的業務有相關,就要主動去把這些數據全部都撈出來啊,對不對?還反問我們說這個數據哪裡來,這樣很漏氣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17736.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17763.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
那所以如果說連這些數據都這些數據趨勢都沒有掌握的話那我想說你要怎麼去有什麼因應的對策我也很難今天期待你們有什麼會給出什麼滿意的答案但是我這樣提喔你們也不要太難過因為呢原住民相關的問題一樣的我也問過勞動部的這個曾經有勞動部的這個安研所有一位同仁被我問到原住民這個勞工相關的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17766.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17785.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
一開始他也是都答不出來但是回去他發憤圖強所以他就後來跟著他們部裡的他們單位同仁做了很多原住民相關的這個數據的研究統計所以現在我也謝謝衛福部那個勞動部就是特別在受到那樣的刺激之後發憤圖強 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17787.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17814.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
很主動的把所有原住民相關的勞工問題一些數據全部都研究得一清二楚那帶動整個勞動部下鄉或者不只下鄉都會去有原住民的地方他們就都也會跟我們請教說哪裡可以真的找到比較多的原住民可以做有效的宣導所以他們也沒有再到工地去發DVD做宣導了 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17815.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17835.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
所以錯誤的宣導方式跟這個地點這個都是要注意的所以我希望今天這個質詢可以給你們一些良善的刺激那也希望你們可以效法一下這個勞動部當初那位安研所的同仁因為後來他也升官了也不錯所以我想在這邊給你們勉勵謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17838.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17843.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
好,謝謝陳穎委員的發言。接下來請牛許廷委員、牛許廷 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17845.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17870.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
不在。」接下來請蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜委員不在。接下來請張家俊委員、張家俊委員、張家俊委員不在。接下來請林柱英委員、林柱英委員、林柱英委員不在。接下來請鄭振淺委員、鄭振淺委員、鄭振淺委員不在。接下來請鄭天才委員、鄭天才委員、鄭天才委員不在。接下來請劉建國委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17878.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17895.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
謝謝主席二、邀請部長請薛部長委員好部長好不然你看一下這個資料齁這是昨天北市某醫院這個被 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17898.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17912.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
被爆料護理師偷拍病人私密照一次的事情,部長有沒有掌握?目前的話是新北市衛生局在調查當中。 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17915.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17939.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
我先不討論那個內容到底是動機是什麼但是我現在給部長看這個歷天來醫療單位病患照片外流的事件你看2011年新北亞東醫院2014台東馬捷醫院2017台北醫學大學富士醫院我沒有記錯他應該有兩次然後2021就最近而已兩年前嘉義聖馬爾町醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17942.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17965.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
這些都發生在這個手術過程中偷拍患者照片並上傳網路的社群。這個確實就是把病患的照片流出然後來做破網或不當的使用我想這是一個好像長期以來持續在發生的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17967.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17991.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
可能都有散在的一些個案但是基本上應該不是說很常見我再給部長看一個資料這是一個網友的對話他說他某次跟朋友聚餐朋友的朋友是急診室的醫師聊著聊著就拿出手機開始秀傷患的患部照片給大家看那看了實在很不舒服 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17992.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
18013.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
那現在回想起來這個行為是不是跟剛剛講的那個事件有點類似我是不清楚說這個看到是什麼東西不過這種行為跟剛剛講的手勢式的這個照片流出的情景也就是這一次的那個案件的情景是不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
18014.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
18039.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
這件事實際上,因為以前很臭皮的啦。當說它開,有在治療某一種病人就落嚴重啦。什麼開刀,它就落嚴重啦。就提一種這種想法出來。那它在,如果是在開拉網開的,那照下來的,有時候是基於那個學術上面的,因為醫院裡面都有那個meeting嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
18040.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
18057.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
他必須要把這個病人的狀況跟同事去相互做討論所以有時候這個是必要的但是你給其他不相關的人那個行為就不好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
18059.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
18075.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
不是,部長,這個這樣講怪怪的啦齁,你剛才的隱喻是,我都認真在聽啦齁,你跟我那臭皮的嘛齁,臭皮這臭皮多了酒,你有講了嗎?這大家很困難的講啦,有一些意思就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
18076.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
18095.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
有那種自我標榜說我有什麼...不是喔,因為我為什麼會這麼講?不相關的人看。放到網路是會被知道,那醫師私底下在就像你講的展現他的醫療技術或怎麼樣,還是他發生到什麼個案,他就可以這樣拿去給...不應該。都不應該嗎?不應該,對。那這個沒有規範嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
18099.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
18111.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
這是本來就有洩漏病人隱私的這個法條文字都有啦但是要去舉證會比較困難因為除非說那個看的人願意出來作證 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
18113.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
18139.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
我們醫療法第七十二條規定嘛對不對這個醫療機構其人員因業務而窒息或持有病人病情或健康資訊不得無故洩漏那違反的話一一百零三條可以除五萬到二十萬以下的罰款這明明有醫療法的規定在啦怎麼會這種類似的案件還層出不窮嘛對不對然後你看喔衛福部在二零一五年的時候就這一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
18143.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
18149.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
這張A4的一張紙總共就是把過去是門診醫療的隱私維護規範改為醫療機構醫療隱私維護規範從門診擴大到醫療機構全面試用就是我拿的這張紙共715個字這我助理還時間還蠻多的還有辦法把它算出總共715個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
18172.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
18182.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
這715個字裡面是到底有沒有落實去執行?還是推廣不足?還是內容規範不夠?才會使這些相關人員有恃無恐?才會使陳獨部長所講的還有這麼一個臭皮? |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
18187.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
18207.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
這個還是兩個啦因為這一些的規範來講是在醫療機構裡面那你從事這些醫療業務的話那不管是不是醫師還是其他人員都必須要去遵守的那通常這一類的嫌違的違反比較容易被看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
18208.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
18230.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
但是剛剛委員提到的有一些個案是在手術室手術室就是一個封閉的空間那病人如果就已經麻醉的話那事實上他也不知情所以就靠的只有這整個的團隊裡面的互相取發才有可能知道那另外一個情形就是剛剛委員提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
18231.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
18252.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
要拿那個相片給他的朋友看,這個就更是屬於私的,這部分的話其實真的是看的人願意檢舉你才看得到,因為它不是公開的。不是,部長我要從另外一個角度去討論,這個會不會是一種陳柯一種好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
18253.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
18268.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
救急救我的疾病從2015年的時候我們還去改這個規範是不是會讓我覺得是不是這種隱私維護規範的強度不夠不然怎麼容許這樣的事情一而再再而三的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
18270.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
18298.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
我是覺得應該沒有到那樣子的程度因為終究這種案件不多啦是我剛剛提到的那一種有一些會把這一些照片拿去給朋友看這種可能這種行為是比較多但是他的問題就是說如果要適用法規的時候就舉證了困難度的問題部長你講這個案件不多我怕你講這句話完的時候會跑出很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
18300.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18319.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
應該不會我還是建議部長是不是對這個規範裡面有沒有討論的空間是不是加強那個規範的強度當然這個可以來討論以這一次的案件我們看調查結果是怎麼樣如果看起來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18321.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18342.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
屬實在開大法裡面真的有這樣的行為,那這個的部分的話就必須要重新檢討我們整個的規範,是不是應該要有更強的強度。」好,就請部長重視這件事情好不好。那我為什麼會提這個報告事件,也因為這個報告者提到,連兒少的身體也都有進行拍攝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18344.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18359.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
這陳副部長講的如果是醫療教學用途那自然還是要獲得監護人的同意嘛對不對那如果是為了滿職私域甚至是要放到網路上公然越覽等意圖啦那又不一樣的一個狀況發生嘛所以我針對這個兒少性剝削 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18362.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18386.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
我又有提出這個修法版本不過那一天我的強調還是在前端就是說加強所有企圖以兒少、影音、影像來圖利的這個滑折這是在後端對不對那前端裡面你後端不管滑多重我一再強調是前端把關重要如何避免到這個兒少接觸到不適合的網站及內容避免兒少的這個資訊及流出 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18387.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18405.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
這其實是一個非常非常重要的一件事情那請部長你再看一下這個這則報導歐盟曾經因為為做好兒童隱私保護抖音遭歐盟重罰是新台幣117億這是創造這個抖音遭開罰的歷史新高紀錄也是歐盟首度對這個社群去做這樣的一個開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18414.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18428.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利部長、國家通訊傳播委員會第12屆第 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18431.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18459.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
部長也在嘛然後問了相關單位然後我也用了很多的案例給部長跟相關人員做參考真的實在是落差太大了然後組織單位好像也沒有辦法即刻去回應我怎樣可以做更好這樣一個積極的一個作為我記得好像是一個月時間一個月時間要提供出來給委員會做參考你們怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18459.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18485.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
做這樣的一個處理。」那另外一個,去年在家福基金會有公布兒少網路社群使用習慣調查,那其中兒少使用這個網路社群互相經驗中有超過兩成的兒少會主動點擊,然後進入這個標示未滿18歲檢疫的網頁,也有一成多會在網路上看到可怕的這個血腥的內容。不只如此,我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18486.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18512.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
我上週的質詢跟現在的質詢其實還是希望政府相關單位更積極來介入管制的最主要的目的是這個樣子還有在家暴這部分報導裡面有一個比較令人更憂心的地方就是我不曉得部長知道這個冰棒這個軟體嗎?這個APP嗎?我不清楚你不清楚齁?這個聯繫上有落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18514.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18524.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
國中、高中只使用過冰棒的都達三成。」我是指這樣的年紀裡面,真的亂笑,就是在委員會部長的年紀有一些了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18525.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18545.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
你們回去自己再好好處理。這個APP在Google平台上顯示是適合所有人然後很多家長也同樣會用這款APP來掌握小朋友的行蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18547.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18575.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
同時可以互交好友有時候就會變成有心人去掌握未成年所在地的APP雖然這個APP已經在去年的3月下架但是類似家偶的APP能不斷地推出而且年齡在年齡上都是括號都是適合所有適合所有人現在我把這些資料給部長做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18578.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18581.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
那這些裡面會不會由我講的這個狀況持續的再發生?這個你們有掌握嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18589.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18615.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
目前當然是沒有,因為我們目前是沒有一個機制是可以去做主動的網站巡查目前是沒有對嘛,今天有蘇貨部也有來,NCC也有來,像這樣的事情到底要怎麼處理我一直強調前端的管制嘛,前端的處理那其實上個禮拜到現在也應該一個禮拜多了那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18616.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18646.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
ACC這邊先回報委員好先回報委員這個委員上個禮拜質詢提到的那個來自深淵烈日的黃金箱那個內容在youtube跟巴哈不同平台不同分級的這個我們有請那個iWIN去了解去看那個內容他的分級是不是符合現在的歷史框架那根據iWIN那個檢視結果YT的那個分級是符合的 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18646.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18675.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
因為有一些不同﹐雖然是同一個片名可是它的剪輯手法或者是打碼版本不同那我們也瞭解﹐因為剪輯完之後呈現出來的所以它分級就不同那這個他們在YT看到的是符合那個框架的歷史框架已經有一個等於是三級那個阻攔性的防護那至於在巴哈呢巴哈的版本他把 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18675.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18690.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
自動把它升級,變成嚴格年齡限制,所以變成同一部片,兩個平台那個分級管制不同,那其實是巴哈加碼的管制,所以管制得更嚴,巴哈的平台是,那目前了解是這樣子,那跟委員會報 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18692.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18710.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
所以我提供這樣的一個訊息,基本上你們就可以馬上去掌握、去調查、去了解嗎?對不對?好,那就是事後,就是說我們事先的一個監管的機制是存在的、是必然、是必要在做的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18710.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18727.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
也不需要說因為有發生什麼事情我來提醒你們你們才去做這樣的一個一個一個一個一個怎麼樣調查去瞭解嘛那個基本上是業者自律那些框架是業者要去遵循的對只要那個民眾向艾運檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18728.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18747.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
IWIN就會去處理就會去檢視那個內容然後是不是符合分級如果不符合分級就會通知業者自律看是要下架或者是進一步處理如果沒有進一步處理可能如果涉及違法就會移送社政或警政機關來處理這是我強調的是我們政府單位可以主動 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18749.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18776.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
去審視這些內容才是正道啊。」那個巡邏齁是這個目前能力不夠那目前還是靠業者自律啦靠業者自律如果說有檢舉事件那個iWIN就會積極介入處理你一定期盼要有人檢舉是要幫我處理不是這樣吧對目前iWIN是這樣子因為是能力有限那我現在提供這些網路的社群勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18778.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18806.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
網路的社群如果是涉及APP的話不是不是你管不是IWIN來管因為如果像遊戲的話是那個誰管是那個速發部產業署在分級在處理但是這些不是這些不是都遊戲啊這個交友軟體或者是那個APP也是速發部產業署在處理是嗎那請主角上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18808.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18831.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
交流並不是你。」那個報告委員首先謝謝委員上次有提醒那個遊戲分級跟Google不一致的部分謝謝委員很好的提醒那其實我們後來事後有去了解因為主要是這樣子我們那個遊戲分級是我們透過自律組織然後國家會定在國內市售所有的遊戲分級那當然我們的分級就會有0、12、15跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18835.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18863.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
限制級就是18禁那謝謝委員有觀察到就主要是Google他在上架他有自己公司的審核制度那只是他那個審核的制度跟我們沒有對上但是他還是有一個叫18禁18禁但是我們現在很重要是18禁是大家非常關切的事情因為他有個12我們有15就才那後來我們發現也委員很仔細我們查了一下我們分級有總共13款是限制級然後去看對應到Google裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18864.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18892.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
他剛好就是委員看到那兩款就是他標示不一樣那我們現在已經有跟Google講假設因為兒少大家都很關切假設我這邊是18禁你一定要有18禁所以我們已經有跟Google協調以後我們都會加強去做性格所以我這邊18你就一定要給我18也不用任何的審議啊審核公司內部的規定所以這邊也謝謝委員那事後我們的做法是我們在我們這邊有18禁的話我們也會在網路上去看有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18893.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18919.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
跟Google不一樣的。我們如果有發現,主動去跟Google做聯繫。」這邊先跟委員說謝謝。謝謝了。所以是因為有提醒,所以現在你們18禁,他們就要比照你們18禁就對了,對不對?好。你們現在也會變成主動的去來審視這些?近期去找,找完之後再勾結。如果業者,如果我們有看到他也自己不去處理的話,我們後續會做一些適當的處置。OK。我現在講的這些勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18925.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18945.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
這邊交友的部分我們是負責遊戲交友的部分現在院裡面大概有在做協調交友的這個主管機關現在目前是主要是給內政部來去處理這件事情因為這個交友的部分那現在還在剩最後的一些處理這個我不方便回答謝謝那今天內政部有來嗎警政署來 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18954.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18978.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
你有聽到啦齁?交友就是你內政部喔?內政部有另外一個時務部這一個議題有在內政部裡面討論過多久會有個結果?因為我看那個期程應該是這一個月內大概就會有消息他會提到行政院層級來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18982.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
19000.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
提到行政院的成績來討論,所以這個月應該會有結果就對了。這個月快到了喔,那我就等你。是這個月還是下個月?下個月。就確定是由誰來組織就對了。謝謝主席,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
19003.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
19018.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
好,謝謝劉建國委員發言。接下來請鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員不在。那本日會議詢答全部結束。委員楊耀、盧憲一、蘇清泉、鍾嘉斌、牛許廷 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
19019.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
19038.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報,現在做以下決定,報告及詢答完畢,委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者,請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆,委員另要求期限者從其所定。本日會議到此結束,現在休息,星期四上午九點繼續開會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
19065.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
19066.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部部長、國家通訊專題報告：一、邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、 |