| IVOD_ID |
15827 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15827 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-18T08:31:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-18T12:56:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:24:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea0a0e131ea932df62b761654f0ebe352d3be8d109af184be4ceca78f50bea7ab65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。 三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:15 - 12:56:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
567.233 |
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567.794 |
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案。三、審查委員鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
601.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
601.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1827.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1835.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我們請主任祕書報告出席人數報告聯席會出席委員18人以主法定人數現在開會我們進行討論事項請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1839.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1842.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
案、審查委員陳韻珍等18人擬具地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1863.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1881.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
現在本日議程所列的討論事項合併質詢首先我先介紹在場的委員以及列行的官員我們介紹黃婕委員陳俊宇委員第一次在內政委員會見到您歡迎來 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1883.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1887.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
陳玉珍委員鄭天財內政部政務次長吳榮輝民政司代理司長鄭英宏戶政司戶口統計科科長黃宏林 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1912.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1924.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
原住民主委員會副主任委員鍾欣華綜合規劃處專門委員曾欣忠中央選舉委員會選務處處長余淑儀國家發展委員會國土區域離島發展處副處長林中榮社會發展處專門委員謝偉智 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1942.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1971.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
法務部法制司專門委員邱黎分財政部負稅署專門委員蘇靜娟行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員李易柔好,現在介紹完了我們所有的官員跟與會的委員們我們現在就先提案說明先請,是郁真嗎?好,我們先請陳郁真委員來做提案說明,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1981.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1993.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
本席今天提出地方制度法增訂第七條之四的這個條文的草案的主要目的是要符合這個憲法正修條文的意旨。中華民國憲法正修條文第十條第十二項規定國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1994.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2010.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因依民族意願保障原住民族之地位及相關發展。後段有提到說對於澎湖、金門、馬祖地區人民一同。意思是說離島地區與原住民一樣都要有同等的這個規範的權利保障。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2011.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2030.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2032.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2040.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具〈地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案〉案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具〈地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2054.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2073.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
方便諸如生活品質、文化、醫療、衛生、教育文化還有社會福利等各方面都沒有一個上位的法令所以我們希望在地方制度法增訂這一條才有法源依據來做一個制度化的保障在地方制度法有這一條規定然後我們就去制定這個離島基本法來完備對於照顧這個離島基民的照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2076.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2098.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個條文事項在第十屆的時候本期事項已經提出來一次而且在第七會期的時候那時候我事項在內政委員會也送出這個委員會等待草野協商但是後來因為屆期不連續所以沒有辦法三讀五通過那這一次本期在第一會期就提出來感謝這個我們高金委員招委高金委員的排審讓這個條文可以在第一時間要進入委員會的這個審查程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2098.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2121.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
本席要再次強調,憲法正確條文第十條第十二項對於原住民族及金馬鵬離島居民的權利保障應該一致對待。原住民族的這個基本法實行20年了,也不斷地在各位原住民委員的這個努力下不停地在徵求當中。那我們離島居民希望至少有一個基本的法律框架,比照原住民案可以保障原住民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2121.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2145.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
原住民族的法律地位。所以今天本集題做修法,不是要說要額外增加對領導居民的照顧,而是希望可以落實憲法徵修條文的這個意旨。希望各位委員還有我們內政部支持。以上,謝謝。好,非常謝謝陳一貞委員提案說明。待會我們請鄭天財委員來做提案說明。我們請張宏祿委員代理我做主席,好吧。您先提案,我最後一個。好,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2155.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2184.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席、各位委員、所有的官員地方制度法這個過去有多次的修正這跟原住民條款有關的部分是在99年的時候針對直轄市的議員有做修正那對於這個現行的地方制度法第33條對於這個隨著原住民的人口移居到都會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2185.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2194.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2212.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2241.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們的新竹縣的竹東鎮、南投縣的埔里鎮、屏東縣的屏東市、潮州鎮及內埔鄉等都沒有這個山地原住民的代表。所以這個部分是需要做一個修正。希望我們行政機關及各位委員能夠支持。以上。好,謝謝政委員。那我們請高金委員提案說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2247.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2269.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝主席目前地方制度法第三十三條的制度從88年通過到現在僅僅對於平地原住民縣市議員的席次有所保障對於山地原住民的參政權卻沒有同等的保障這導致部分都會區的山地原住民的族人在縣市議員選舉的時候被迫投給漢人的候選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2274.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2294.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然而當選的漢人候選人因爲文化的不了解也不清楚原住民的事務也就無法落實原住民族的政策而山地原住民族人的權益沒有人照顧跟爭取這損害到當地族人應有的權利跟福利甚至於是參政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2295.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2322.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因此我提出地方制度法第三十三條的修正草案這實踐了憲法徵修條文第十條第十二項賦予的原住民族發展權保障山地原住民族的參政權利也落實原住民族的轉型正義我希望今天排的第三十三條內政部的民政司還有在場的所有的朋友們也能夠支持憲法保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2322.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2350.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
三地援助民主在都會區的參政權。謝謝大家。好,我們現在提案委員的說明都說明結束了。我們現在請內政部吳政務次長榮輝來報告。請問一下次長您需要幾分鐘的時間?很快。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2352.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2381.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
很快,我們就給您五分鐘的時間,好嗎?好,我們給吳次長五分鐘的時間來書面報告,謝謝。好,我們召集我們各位立委,各位在場的先進,大家早安。首先對於委員會就內政業務的關注跟指導,表達由衷的感謝之意。今天貴委員會聯席會議審查地方制度法條文修正草案,總共有四案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2382.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2398.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
本部應邀列席報告並備詢,深感榮幸,僅就本部意見扼要說明,敬請委員參考。第一,高金素梅委員等及鄭天財委員等建立調整縣市議員及鄉鎮市民代表原住民保障名額規定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2400.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2428.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因制度調整有關原住民與非原住民、選民與候選人的參政權利、選區劃分以及地方的政治生態,如何兼顧原住民與非原住民的參政權利,需一併做整體的考量、通盤檢討。第二、賴士葆委員等建議徵定本部由上而下啟動直轄市、縣市單獨或者合併改制為直轄市案,應經有涉及的直轄市、縣市政府及議會同意。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2429.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2452.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因縣市單獨或合併改制之下是為行政區劃之一種,依照憲法第108條第一項第二款的規定,行政區劃屬於中央權限,尚非地方自治事項。堂規定應經地方政府或地方議會同意,形同賦予地方行政區劃決定前,恐與憲法規定有判格之訴。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2453.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2479.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第三、陳毓尊委員等建立制定離島基本法考令現行離島建設條例,獲得攸關離島第七之法規,僅是具體落實了憲法徵修條文第十條第十二項之要求。有關離島地區居民的各項權利保障,在地方自治地位及其居民政治參與部分與臺灣本島並無差異。之一、教育、文化、交通、水利、 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2480.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2506.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
衛生醫療、經濟土地及社會福利事項等面向如基於離島地區之特殊需要建立在既有的法規基礎上是實際需要來事實辦理修訂以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝謝謝吳市長的書面說明繼續我們請因為這涉及到原住民山地原住民在都會區的權益我們也請原民會的總副主委來做書面報告好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2510.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2532.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主席、各位委員大家好本會受邀列席出席本聯席會深感榮幸以下僅就高金素梅委員以及鄭天財委員所提的地方制度法第三十三條的修正條文草案提出報告第一是現行3D箱還有其他行政區域原住民政治參與權源於臺灣省各縣市實施地方自治綱要 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2533.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2549.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
以及臺灣省各縣市鄉鎮市民代表組織規程所為之設計就行政首長及鄉鎮市民代表為不同之規範並沿用至今日的一個地制法。第二個是查委員所提的版本均增加三地民主民民代表的席次 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2550.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2564.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
有助於提升原住民族政治參與權,本會敬表尊重,為散開的草案涉及國家整體的參政權以及選務規劃執行的作業,也進行大用徵詢法令主管機關的意見。以上的說明。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2567.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2587.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好,非常謝謝中副主委的書面報告。其他單位的報告,我們請在場的委員就自行參閱並且刊登公報。現在進行詢答,委員質詢之前,原例做幾個宣告。第一個,本聯席會及原名發言的時間是4分鐘,必要的時候可以延長2分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2588.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2605.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
非本聯席會的委員發言時間為4分鐘,上午10點30分截止發言登記。因為今天要法案處理,所以我們這次的會議就不處理臨時提案了。請問各位委員有沒有意見?好,謝謝。我們請登記第一位的張宏祿委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2616.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2621.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我請吳次長跟中副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2627.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2647.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
市長、副主委其實今天這個委員提案其實我認為利益是良善我想先請問一下這個市長在台灣沒有山地原住民的縣市目前山地鄉的縣市目前有幾個有八個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2650.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2669.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2679.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2685.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但,像我們新北市其實山原、平原都有了吧?是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2685.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2687.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
是。是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2687.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2698.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
有。新北有。有齁。那像我們新北市其實平地原住民的人口也是有可能繼續增加吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2698.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2699.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個中副主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2700.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2724.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
也有可能是人口的部分有沒有可能有可能會增加包括桃園市最近就增加比較多畢竟是這個新北跟桃園都有很多我們原住民的朋友來這邊工作來這邊生活那我想請問一下在總額的限制之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2725.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2753.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那如果憑議員住民的朋友越來越多,那議員的席次是不是要等量增加?報告委員,這個直轄市的部分是因為它分開計算了,所以基本上它跟區域的就沒有影響。不不,我的問題是不是也要增加?要一直增加?你說區域的部分是嗎?對啊。區域的部分應該是它有人口限制嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2754.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2780.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我做以新北市為例啊。新北市為例,如果他人口繼續增加的話,他有可能他會增加。對嗎?超過200萬以上他會增加。不不,我說以新北市現在,我如果原住民的、平地原住民的人口一直增加,我們的議員的、平原的、議員的人數啊,要不要繼續增加?他現在已經分開啦。我知道是分開,我知道是分開,你可以請你答。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2781.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2800.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
就說目前直轄市的是兩千...不然你只要回答我會不會增加就好會嘛對嘛我只要你這個答案嘛會嘛對不對所以問題來了是直轄市跟我們一般縣市現在是不一樣的對不對對縣市是合併計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2806.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2825.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
對阿!你不要回答我道理啦!你只要回答我對或不對啦!沒錯嘛!所以可能會造成不公平所以才有這個提案但我也要有一個問題我們在立法也不是說看到目前的狀況我雖然覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2829.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2838.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這一個道理是通的是沒有有的地方沒有代表的原住民的議員但我們原住民族身份法我們到底什麼時候要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2842.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2866.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
報告委員,我們身份法現在正在研議中,會再按照那個當上次的釋憲17號裡面,三年內會作為一個處理。我現在就是有一個問題,我們知道今天這個法案這個道理上說得通,然後也確實好像有不足之處,但身份法如果通過之後,如果有很多的希拉雅族、平埔族什麼的,他們都取得了 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2867.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2873.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
憑例原住民的身份之後,那我剛所說的那些問題,你們有沒有想到要如何去解決了?跟委員報告,目前也還在討論中,因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2882.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2909.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
在上一次我們提出的版本是有關他們的部分可能權力法律會定以定之有做這樣的一個上一次的考量不過這一次可能我們還在討論中對嘛也還不知道嘛其實我要一個重點就是說如果身份法通過了之後他們就是原住民的身份啊他們也取得了參政權啊對不對他本來就有參政權啦他就可以用平地原住民的身份來參選議員了吧對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2912.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2913.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2926.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2953.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
在還沒有定案但有可能發生這種情況之下其實我個人我真的不反對今天的這個修法的這個方向但很多細節我們要先考慮到未來如果發生了這樣的情況之下那我們的地制法要不要再修一次要不要再什麼其實你們要預先要防範要說出來不然可能到時候問題會更大會不會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2957.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2975.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
法務委員我來說明一下,如果未來這個移民身份法這個評估處去納入,我們在這個副政機關去登記他的身份之後,那未來一定會涉及到參政權的問題,一定會涉及到參政權。那未來恐怕那個稀釋的變化當然一定會產生變化,這是一定會的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2976.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2998.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
對啦齁所以其實我比較擔心的是可能未來會發生的事情啦齁我比較擔心這個如果我們今天通過了這個那未來要怎麼去處理或什麼我覺得我們今天可能也要一起思考一起討論一下不要到時候又有很多問題的發生啦好不好是好謝謝委員好謝謝張宏祿委員的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3002.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3004.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3030.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3046.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
好謝謝主席那請吳政次跟我們余處長好我們請次長還有處長是哪一位是余處長中央選舉我們會選余處余處長我們時間先暫停請余處長立刻到這個備詢台上 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3061.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3079.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好,政次還有我們余處長那謝謝主席今天與會的我們所有列席的首長還有我們各位委員媒體先進大家早安那今天我們要審查的是這個地方制度法的這個修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3080.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3095.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們也看到有幾位委員提案要通過調整名額來保障原住民的參政權我覺得這是利益良善值得我們社會廣泛的討論但是對於整體的選制的影響還是需要經過審慎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3098.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3112.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
評估跟討論之後相關的問題我相信我們也需要經過我們內政部還有選委會這邊有一個比較明確的一個方向那本席在去年競選的同時也曾經提過一個構想 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3113.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3129.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那是不是可以在各縣市在不影響選區的原有席次的基礎上來增加部分區的議員席次避免議會被少數人特定家族或是派系 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3130.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3150.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
還有勢力給壟斷那也可以讓更多優秀的青年和專業的人才都能夠進入議會來服務那對於縣市議會增設政黨比例的這個代表不分區議員的可能性我想請問我們內政部跟中選會認為現階段有沒有可能來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3153.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3170.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
謝謝委員指教我想這個現在的地方議會的這個選舉制度已經可以這個反映出選區的多元的這個這個意見了那有關於增設這個部分區的議員的這個席次他影響可能是整個的這個選舉制度的這個變革 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3172.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3188.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
包括說你比例要怎麼分、那席次怎麼調整、選區怎麼劃分等等這些,那這個牽涉的是比較廣泛,這個需要大家這個廣泛的討論來形成共識。那我想這一個方向大家可以討論,我們立場是開放,那可以大家一起討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3189.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3204.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
有沒有可能內政部來主導對於這個部分邀請我們相關的單位或是地方的意見領袖來做一個比較深入的討論?有沒有可能? |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3205.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3227.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我想這個是公共議題我們可以跟中協會這邊大家一起跟地方政府大家一起來談因為本席來自這個地方的議會我也曾經在議會擔任過議員那甚至這個參政對年輕人來說有時候門檻是過高那多元的價值跟相對冷門的這個議題也可能會被忽略 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3229.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3255.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
如果我們有專業背景的這些青年因為缺乏選舉的資源而無法進入議會來問政、監督政府的話,我想是相當可惜的。那是不是請內政部和中選會能夠積極來研擬、藉盡其他國家的經驗,一起推動青年參政,也可以提升地方公共治理的品質,深化我們地方民主和多元性的發展。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3256.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3276.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這個部分我要請我們這個內政部跟中選會來幫忙那另外還有一個問題就是這個當兵的問題那我看到這個最近的新聞報導男性的護理師這個本來就很稀少了但是因為他在這個求學過程之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3278.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3291.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
等待兵單好不容易入伍又退伍之後但他正式職業已經有一年半的時間沒有臨床經驗了在工作上銜接的調適性都相對比其他的人來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3293.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3293.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3315.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3330.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
好謝謝委員指教這一部分我們跟這個衛福部我們有在討論那是不是在社會意義裡面他們因為要必須要這個衛福部他提出需求那如果有這個需求的話我們會來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3332.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3349.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那這個部分還是請內政部跟衛務部積極探討能夠把這個問題解決那另外還有一個就是針對我們現在義南在等待當兵的部分有一些畢業之後等待的時間甚至超過一年以上那像這種塞車的問題現在有沒有解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3351.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3373.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
報告委員這一部分我們都盡可能就是說假設你有希望你趕快去入營的話這個我們都會優先來做處理那這個因為涉及到流量的問題也就是說在成功的基本訓練的部分如果流量沒問題我們盡可能都讓他能夠儘早來入營那平均我們現在要等多久才能夠入營 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3374.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3383.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我們現在因為比較快了,前陣子是有一點塞車,那現在流量增加以後應該比較快了。我們還是希望內政部能夠對於徵集異難的部分盡快來辦理,減少他們等待的時程。 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3394.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3412.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那對於台灣的義難來說要當兵是義務啦但是不確定的時程還是嚴重影響到他們的生涯規劃那我們請內政部持續這個精進讓我們所有要投入國家這個服務的這些義難在等待的時間縮短以外我們剛剛講的對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3414.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3437.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
男性護理師的部分,我也拜託我們內政部還有這個衛福部應該積極的去研議,讓他們能夠在這個服役的過程裡面有一個比較好的銜接,避免他們這個踏入社會之後有這個斷層。好,以上。謝謝,謝謝立委對替代藝人的關心。好,謝謝陳俊宇委員的質詢,謝謝。謝謝,謝謝次長,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3442.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3458.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
繼續我們請麥玉珍委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請內政部次長。有請我們的吳次長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3465.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3494.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
市長好關於居住正義一直來是我們民眾關心的議題特別在都會區現在的房子貴三三嘛比黃金還貴所以民眾必須不吃不喝十年才買得起想租屋的民眾也遇到市場沒有透明的問題政府希望透過補貼的方式希望讓更多的民眾可以付得起租金 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3495.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3509.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
但是民眾對於社會住宅補助的資格審查、補貼的金額及申請流程還有很多疑慮。請教次長目前社會住宅補貼的標準及金額如何?報告委員,是不是這一部分我請我們營建這院國土署來回應一下? |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3519.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3520.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3535 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3561.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那我們現行的那個針對社會住宅入住的話那現行的規定大概就是一般戶當然是8折那社會弱勢戶有在打折那打折的部分那各地方政府可能不一樣那最少就是有6、4折那剛剛委員提到那個社會社會住宅的那個收取的標準按照分級的部分來收取這個部分那我們內政部針對這個部分已經會再找地方政府再繼續研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3564.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3580.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
但是我們社會租宅的租金分級收費原則是協議是身份別作為社會租宅的租金的標準但是在今年7月就是正式實施但以 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3581.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3601.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
就是身分別作為租宅收費標準,恐怕跟租宅法第25條第三頁的規定依曾租人的薪水及負擔能力來訂定收費標準,這樣子有所違背。」所以請問一下我們的部會怎麼看法? |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3603.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3622.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
報告委員那個身份別或是用他的那個所得這個部分齁那剛剛有講這個部分因為還要再研議啦所以不是今年七月就會一定正式實施那這個部分我們已經在邀請縣市政府會再溝通討論以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3623.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3639.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
是在溝通討論,但是還不知道什麼溝通,什麼時候溝通還什麼,就是在溝通而已,是不是?報告我補充一下,因為這個案子現在本來在有兩個聲音,一個是要收入杯,一個是分杯。我們經過檢討,我們認為還是應該用升杯來會比較公平。 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3644.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3661.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那這一部分我們另外花次有在邀集這個縣市政府要共同來討論準備去訂定這樣的一個標準那現在還沒有出來那現在已經在跟地方政府在溝通如果是講公平的話我們舉例好了我們新住民的角度來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3662.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3688.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我們都是來自東南亞就是語言、文化或者是就是識字能力、世音等的問題但是呢我們也面臨就是低薪不穩固的困境但是在經濟上的弱勢地位當依居住法裡面所定義經濟或者社會弱勢者的身份中新住民身份並不包含在內 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3689.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3709.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
若有要用身分別作為租宅收租的標準的話恐怕就是讓我們真正經濟弱勢的民眾就變兩頭空顯示其實這樣子的沒辦法妥善的照顧弱勢族群所以像次長這說的話這個問題如何解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3712.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3730.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
報告委員,委員剛剛指教的部分在這個跟地方政府在去溝通的時候這個我們會納入去這個溝通的這個議題裡面那我想這部分我們都會去考量這最主要是說我們不希望弱勢的我們是希望正正正視這個問題就是我們要請教說我們次長知不知詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3737.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3742.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
租房全面實價登錄還有全面公開。 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3746.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3774.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我想這一部分我們會來討論但是有一個原則就是說我們社會住宅就是要針對這些比較經濟弱勢的能夠提供一個比較安心的所以才要說全面就是價位登記還有公開這樣子的價位我們真正才照顧到弱勢沒有公開的話就是租房子八百塊要怎麼真正的照顧我想委員這個我們會納入整個去演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3776.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3776.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
條文修正草案案。三、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3787.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3812.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
就在市場發展管理條例的修正草案中,就是我們要如何定就是轉租的企業還有納入就是實價的登錄,就中介他們是有,但是我們可以說一大的突破啦,但目的就是在提升租屋的透明度,還有如租金可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3812.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3818.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3839.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3866.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
實價登錄這個是既有的政策會繼續往這個方向來推動嗎?往這方面推動但是會實質推動嗎?還是往這方面推動而已?所以我們希望請教一下內政部就是租金實質登錄還有平均地權條例的上路成功如何?到目前為止開罰的條件有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3868.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3872.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
因為這一個我手上沒有這個數據那這些數據我們再會我們再提供給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3874.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3896.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
因為這次檢舉是要有實名制所以民眾可以擔心說大家的個資外洩所以如果是實名制的話大家就不敢去舉報所以這些商業就不會登廣告我們也沒有達到我們是要監督或者是管理的我們謝謝我們的市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3898.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3906.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具〈地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3931.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3954.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
委員好市長好我在上一屆的第七會期有針對今天我們排的這個地方制法第三十三條我有做過提案那為什麼我當時會提出這個修法因為長期以來存在一個很不合理的現象我們都知道根據我們到去年底的一個人口統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3955.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3979.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
原住民人口移居到都會地區已經來到48%也就是說將近有一半的原住民人口是移居在都會地區可是呢我們來看一看我們的地制法他是怎麼寫的要怎麼樣產生我們的議員呢平地原住民人口要滿1500人就會有平地原住民議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3981.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3995.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4002.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4020.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
他雖然沒有山地鄉可是山地原住民的人口有7354人。臺南市雖然沒有山地鄉但是他的山地原住民人口有5000多人。反觀我們的直轄市在目前的地制法我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4021.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4046.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
只要平地原住民達2000人以上,就可以選出平地原住民議員。山地原住民達2000人以上,就可以選出山地原住民議員。甚至是改制前有山地鄉的,以桃園來講它有復興區,也可以有山地原住民議員。所以在這邊想要請教一下次長,像這些沒有山地鄉的縣市, |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4048.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4054.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
您說給大家聽三地原住民如果我要投一元票我要領哪一種票?謝謝委員我想現在委員要去照顧這一個原住民的參政權那因為現在平地原住民我們是有保障的一千五百人以上市長我只是想問他可以領什麼票? |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4077.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4085.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那因為他如果參與七一就領七一的選票所以他領不到他一個3D原住民他要領哪一種票 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4087.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4088.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
區域選票區域選票區域選票 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4108.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4133.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那我上次也有說不對的事情我們就應該要主動修不要等待所以在這個地方我也要讓次長再一次知道同樣的不合理也發生在鄉鎮市的這些民意代表像是新竹的竹東鎮他的3D原住民高達3849人可是他沒有辦法有3D原住民的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4134.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4148.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那我們的地方制法都出現一樣的問題很多都要去修他不知道他要選什麼票所以我在這邊在上一屆期呢當時因為有提案有質詢我也試著拜託內政部幫我試算 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4152.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4153.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4171.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4190.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
今天我們內政委員會召委很快的排入了這個修法的法案那我在這一屆也提了版本但是因為來不及所以我在這邊也補題一個修正動議那我這邊要再重申一次我的地方制度法第三十三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4191.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4207.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
希望比照直轄市議員來調整縣市議員鄉鎮市代表的應選名額,採什麼方式?總額外加的方式。那我在這邊另外也想提一個部分有做修正。 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4208.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4225.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
二、審查委員地制法第八十三條之三我希望來處理直轄市的山地原住民自治區的財政自治事項因為目前很不合理他們合併了之後曾經一度失去公法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4226.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4251.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好在很快的我們又透過修法恢復,但是還是留了很多不合理的現象。我希望透過《地方制度法第83條之三》讓直轄市的山地原住民自治區要把包含他升格前應該要分配的稅捐、公共債都能夠把它補回來。也希望我們內政部這邊能夠來支持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4253.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4266.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
另外針對地方制度法第四條我在第十屆的時候看過柯建民委員的一個版本他在第一項有提到人口聚居達125萬人以上他把原來的籍修成貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4272.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4287.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
在政治、經濟、文化及都會區發展上有特殊需要的地區得設直轄市。」所以在這個地方特別希望針對第三條的第一款地方劃分為省、直轄市 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4288.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4315.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
希望可以把原住民族自治區也能夠把它納入地制法裡面那在原住民自治法尚未制定完成之前我們可以先從地方制度法修正讓現有的原住民區域成為與直轄市同一個層級的地方自治團體那我在這邊就是希望內政部跟園民會來研議這個可行性希望在兩個月之內提供本席說明好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4317.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4326.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好謝謝好謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝吳立華委員謝謝次長接下來有請高金昭吉委員好謝謝主席我們有請吳次長有請次長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4343.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4357.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
市長好,地方制度法從88年通過到現在,剛剛我的臨時提案已經講過了。我們從來沒有檢討過三元平原在地方選舉上遭受到差別待遇的合理性。 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4359.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4374.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
這讓部分山地原住民在都會區裡面成為次等國民。平原可以選出自己的平地議員,但是山原卻沒有同等的權益。我們的政府似乎認為我們山地原住民的族人不會到都會區, |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4375.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4393.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
你們也沒意識到這不合理的制度間接其實剝奪了三原的參政權還有牠的遷徙自由尤其我們看到目前原住民在都會區涉及的人口已經達到全體原民人口的49%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4396.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4404.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以對於這種不合理的制度反彈的聲浪越來越大我們是不是應該要來加速檢討跟修正相關的條文? |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4407.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4435.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
報告委員,剛剛委員指教的有關於這個山地原住民的這一部分,我們認為的確有檢討的空間。好,謝謝您。雖然今天部長跟本席請假了,但是呢,我讓次長回顧一下,部長當時就在這個地方,針對這個議題他備詢的時候他的立場,我們請助理放一下部長的回應。目前地方制度法第三十三條的條文,間接剝奪山地原住民參政權的制度,我也已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4437.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4457.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
經期案要修法了,是不是請部長我們一起來支持維護山地原住民在都會區的權益,您同意嗎?這個我們已經現在的演繹,那也有一些方向,那基本上我們是朝正面的一個態度來看待的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4458.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4468.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
市長您看到了民政司也看到了代理市長在我提到這個問題之前我要特別譴責一下民政司民政司請你上台一下代理市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4470.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4491.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
本辦公室4月9號不管是跟你們做口頭說明或者是給你們公文你們回覆都是告訴我事涉複雜提不出推估的數據不管是部長也好次長也好你都說正在研議了然後呢也討正面的態度來檢討這個事情為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4494.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4506.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我要跟你們要一個推估的資料,你們告訴我事涉複雜,提不出推估數據。難道事涉複雜就不要處理被剝奪參政權的我們三地原住民族的權益嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4507.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4519.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4530.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4554.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
來粗估我的版本可以增加三地議員席次的縣市。我們看一下,112年月底的數據人口的推估可能會增加的縣市只有彰化縣、雲林縣、基隆市、新竹市只有四席三地議員所以本席堅持修法是為了制度上的公平跟維護三地原住民的參政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4556.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4574.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
目前我們地方制度法第三十三條的制度僅僅對於平地原住民有固定席次的參政保障但是三地原住民參政權沒有相對於保障我們用基隆市為例目前三地原住民已經有1541人了因為沒有席次的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4576.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4599.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
只能投給誰?剛剛次長應該簡單的說,他們不能夠投給平地原住民的議員,他們只能夠投給漢人的候選人,就是你們所謂的區域候選人。漢人候選人因為文化上的不了解,因為也不太清楚知道原住民族在都會區的需求,所以他們很多以來都是提不出原住民在地的 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4601.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4609.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
貼切的服務,這導致我們的族人怎麼樣?他們投票覺得沒有意義,所以他就陷入不願意投票的這樣的狀況之下。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4611.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4637.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
如果你們願意的話,把所有長期以來投票的這些數據找出來,你們就會知道投票率之低。所以因為在這樣子不斷的惡性循環之下,我們3D原住民族的族人在都會區就不會有人照顧。平地原住民的議員,因為他不能投給他,所以他也不照顧他。所以呢,我們3D原住民在都會區,我剛剛講到, |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4638.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4649.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
就是已經人口超過1500這些人真的沒有被保障到。次長這種間接被剝奪三地原住民參政權的制度是不是應該要處理和建好了? |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4650.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4674.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
報告委員,我剛才特別有跟委員報告,這一個方向是可以去檢討的。我們認為說,當初在定定這些第四條三十三條,為什麼把這個非原民鄉的山地原住民這一塊去疏漏掉?因為他們認為山地原住民的族人不會到都會區,只有在山上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4675.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4698.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這個當然現在就不一樣了我剛剛說到了我們原住民的族人移居都市的已經百分之49點多了他比在我們山地鄉的人還多了要討論這個意義當然要跟這個區域的部分大家一起去檢討了但一個原則上就是說這一部分是當初是沒有保障到的我認為是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4699.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4717.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
另外有跟委員特別報告剛剛這個特別委員提到這個要這些數據資料是因為代表的部分比較複雜一點那其實我們會提供我們有的這些資料給委員市長我不接受你們今天代理市長的這樣子的今天才整理出來我不接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4719.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4733.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
但是我要說的是今天的修法有三大前提一個是不影響具有席次第二個是三元平原必須要平等對債第三個是要保障三元的參政權在這三大前提之下我請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4734.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4756.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
站在族群主流化、落實轉型正義跟保障三元參政群的立場上支持本席的修法。如果內政部覺得條文文字需要精確,我也請內政部你們待會就盡快提供建議的文字,待會我在逐條再審三十三條的時候,我希望也能夠提供給大家好嗎?謝謝市長謝謝高金、張維謝謝我們次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4763.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4787.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
有請我們蘇巧慧委員好 謝謝巧慧委員我們請巧慧委員來質詢好 謝謝主席那我就想請我們內政部次長有請吳次長二位好 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4791.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4818.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
市長好,市長我們今天在討論這個原住民族的民意代表的選舉喔那其實剛剛不管是武麗華委員或者是高金委員其實都在在提到了山地原住民在都市區、都會區參政權的保障那您剛剛也說確實這個地方過往的立法狀況一直不清楚了但確實現在存有改進的空間,是不是這個意思?是那你認為你覺得可以怎麼調整? |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4820.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4838.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我想這個有幾個方案因為這個涉及到到底是在總額內或者是外加的部分這個是可以去討論的但總之你也認為把都會區再加上不管他是內涵或者是外加再加上有山地原住民民意代表的席次這個是可以討論的方向是這樣可以討論對肯定的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4842.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4865.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那我們就是想今天再來問啊我們再深一層追問好了市長我想請問一下你知道山地原住民和平地原住民嗎我們今天就是這兩大類在分別嘛對不對這是我們台灣16這麼多族的原住民族裡面他在族別之外還會被加上這樣的身份分類法對不對那你知道這個原住民山原跟平原身份別是怎麼分的嗎法律依據是什麼哪一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4868.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4888.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這個在當初這個人民身份法裡面他就有在當初就有光復前跟光復後是你是戶籍在平地就平地原住民你在山地就山地原住民當初是你要不要再講一次在這個2024年的現在再講一次這條規定如何區分原住民是山地原住民和平地原住民的分類標準你不會覺得在2024年的現在聽起來蠻可笑的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4895.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4914.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
原住民族身份法第二條本法所稱原住民包括山地原住民及平地原住民其身份之認定除本法另有規定外依依下的規定依依山地原住民臺灣光復前原籍在山地行政區內且戶口調查部登記其本人或直系血親尊姓屬屬於原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4914.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4918.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
平地原住民有案是臺灣光復前原籍在平地行政區域內且戶口調查部登記為其本人或職業為原住民申請戶籍在光所登記的平地原住民有案者我是哪一族這是血統上面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4932.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4955.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
但是我是山原還是平原,原來是依據光復前,是漢人來這個光復台灣之前,然後戶籍登記在漢人設定的這個行政區域內,然後我們就把它分成山原跟平原,然後從此之後他們的投票權和他們的參政權就有了很大的區分,所以像吳立華吳偉元好了,他的爸爸媽媽不同族,欸他有一個不能投他欸,你覺得這樣合理嗎?原住民不是就是原住民嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4963.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4990.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那我們今天在討論的席次的話我們有沒有要更在2024年的現在更深一層的去討論去辯證現在到底還有沒有區分山園跟平原的必要性呢?你覺得這個也可以討論嗎?我想這一部分是不是原民會來回答會比較...欸沒有我現在就是問內政部阿我現在就問內政部好啦那原民會副主委你也備詢好了啦但是我還是要原住民的答案啦我還是要內政部的答案啦對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4991.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5009.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
法務委員我的答案很簡單就是這些都是屬於公共議題都可以討論以後你如果說假設這個法令的修改三元跟平安要去合在一起就統成一個原住民那當然這個涉及的法令的修改會非常多啦對不對對但是事實上這可以討論嘛來委員跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5011.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5038.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
其實這個部分是可以討論的,因為三元平原就陳如委員所提到的都是延續日據時代的一個分類。目前因為整個都已經比較現代的社會大家都很頻繁。對,而且我三元現在也不住在山上了,剛剛高金委員就有提到的嘛,我們有這麼多基建一半的人族人朋友根本就已經是移居到都市了。請問我在這裡把它分三元跟平原這個差別的意義到底是什麼?權力都差不多只有在參政權才有三元平原。 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5038.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5039.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5057.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5074.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個統計在我每一個投票所我們大家都去投票的時候我們都很自然嘛就是去投票投了以後就被開票誰也不知道我投什麼啊在那個炮軌在投票圈圈裡面天地良心誰知道我是投誰可是原住民不一樣啊因為他人少啊我幫大家調查一下我講新北市就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5074.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5089.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那個投票所只有5個人以下的平地原住民是佔23.4%。三地原住民那個投票所只有5個人只有5票的只有有佔了47.5。吳亦華委員更統計過啊,上一次的選舉全國全國3人投票所只有1個人的1400個投票所。 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5097.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5122.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
平原只有一個人就投票了也是一千四百個投票所這還有命令投票可言嗎?對不對?這不是一件很奇怪的事情嗎?所以這有沒有解方?要不要來改變?把身份別的認同拉寬是不是也是一種解方?這真的非常值得討論所以我們今天在討論這個投票的部分的時候其實我覺得更應該利用這個機會可以往上層次來討論啊副主委應該認同啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5129.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5155.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
等下修法的時候就跟你請教這一條。不過跟委員包括因為針對這個善言偏言的一個分法我們在104年也有...因為我看有版本...有委員提出版本阿是我們也徵詢過當時的一些民意代表不過多數還是有一些反對所以這個還比較複雜一點所以我說討論嘛所以我說討論嘛好啦那請那個副主委先回座啦那我繼續請教次長次長我跳另外一題啦齁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5156.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5177.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
行政院有說現在靶罩要由內政部來處理專法請問進度到哪裡了靶罩專法這個前幾天都密集下開會現在大概已經收斂差不多了下個禮拜應該會提出來那我因為時間的關係我就跟市長這邊說我這邊本席也會提出一部我的版本啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5177.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5196.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那我有三個建議啦齁,這個地方的話是要授權先行限制瀏覽或移除的法源。第二個是協助民眾追回款項。第二個是協助追回受騙款項。這才是大家比較想要知道的。第三個請支持民間發展創新科技。這三項重點我希望能夠再跟內政部多討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5199.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5221.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
謝謝蘇喬惠委員謝謝蘇喬惠委員市長剛剛那個投票的那個秘密投票的確是一個很大的問題我們希望你們趕快想一個方式讓這些投票的這些原住民的族人不要因為他的投票的行為而受到大家矚目的方向好不好謝謝繼續我們請黃婕委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5235.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5260.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好 謝謝主席我們請次長魏前吳次長我也好好 次長好今天這個問題其實大家都有提到了所以我還是再次的請教因為現在的問題就是說如果是一個沒有山地鄉的縣市那請問一下我們在這些縣市裡面的山地原住民他們要投議員的票要怎麼投可不可以告訴大家一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5264.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5285.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
委員講的就是說非這個原民鄉的3D原住民他怎麼投票的問題那他會去投這個區域的話他就會投到區域去是的他會變成說他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表是這樣子嗎那你覺得這樣會有什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5287.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5300.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
當然這個是變成這個租別的問題啦,因為理論上來講我原住民我應該會投給原住民的這個租賃嘛那我大概比較不會去投給這個這個一般區域的議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5301.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5323.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
是的 這個其實就是大家過去所詬病的剝奪原住民的參政權以及他沒有辦法達到實質的族群的平等所以當然在轉型正義的立場上我也認為今天的修法利益是好的就是讓原住民族他有辦法即使他在沒有圓山鄉的這個縣市都還是有辦法投給原住民的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5324.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5348.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
當然現在就進一步討論到,如果我們開始改制的話,會不會影響到既有的席次?就我們次長的看法,目前的修法會不會影響既有的席次?報委,這要看你是內涵或是外加。那就今天的版本?如果今天版本如果採外加的話,以我們跟他試算,大概不會影響區域的不大。 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5353.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5374.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這就是我想請教的因為其實我們今天我們內政部是沒有自己的版本的然後今天其實就是只有幾個委員的版本那在這樣的版本的立場之上顯然不會影響既有的席次那如果接下來照今天的版本修出去之後會影響怎麼樣的席次你們有試算過嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5375.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5390.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
法務委員,我們有試算過。好,跟大家說明一下,接下來如果這個版本送出,增減的席次影響是什麼樣?如果假設,因為版本鄭天財委員跟高金委員的版本有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5396.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5413.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
對對對那我們現在講議員的部分議員的部分這個如果假設以鄭天財委員的版本他區域的會增加然後那個這個這個原名也會增加都會增加嗎因為都是財總額外加制對外加那你們支持嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5415.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5443.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我覺得這個都可以討論都可以討論那當然其實我覺得你們應該要進行相關的評估啦因為看起來說我們內政部自己也沒有評估過這個所謂可能造成的疑慮或者是如果照這樣的利益下去增減的席次會不會有什麼實質上的影響目前看不出來所以我覺得這個是內政部應該要回去檢討的如果你們就照今天的版本我們修我們的但是你們部都沒有任何的立場這也是不行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5444.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5459.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那當然我自己是支持因為這是回到一個族群的平等利益非常良善但是我也想到一個問題就是因為我們地質法裡面還是有提到說就三十三條裡面我們目前就是區域的縣市的議員是有總額的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5461.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5490.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那目前看起來就是等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來是用總額外交的方式就不受這一條的限制會變成是這樣嗎?如果是這樣的話是不是因為以目前的區議員來說像屏東他們現在55席如果照人口的試算增減的話再一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔那如果台東現在是30席他們照現在人口的增減到了下一次的選舉可能會剩下19席 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5490.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5509.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
也就是說目前的區域的民意代表其實都會隨著人口的增減不管立委不管議員都是會席次會有增減的但是照目前的版本等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢?是,我想這一個因為原住民部分是保障的 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5515.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5538.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
他不會動但區域的議員部會因為人口的減少會一直減少就像剛剛委員特別有提到說屏東在下一次的這個選舉會少了從55席會掉到43席會少了12席一次就是少12席唷下一次台東會少了11席是的那現在如果假設以這個現在的修法版本那如果要修 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5539.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5568.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
如果要修大家有這個共識要修那就應該採外加的方式而不是以內涵的方式因為不能因為修法去保障這個影響到區我想這個一定會會有問題當然當然對不過我要特別跟委員報告就是說以現在不是說這些非山地鄉的原住民是沒有參政權是有只是說他他現在沒有的話他必須要去參加區議員是啊是啊對那是因為保障的問題他沒有辦法用原住民的身份去選啊是去投啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5569.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5579.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
是啊所以不用解釋這個啦我意思是說是不是大家可以在一併的討論就是因為地質法的精神也就是說隨著人口的增減然後會影響你們民意代表的席次嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5580.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5606.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
是 這個我尊重 我們尊重委員的意見對 所以我希望如果可以的話大家就一併討論再來之後就還是講一下這個一人投票所的問題因為其實目前這個狀況真的蠻嚴重的目前大概有兩成的原住民族在投票的時候會暴露自己的投票的意向因為這個 等於是他都會被迫亮票那這件事情到底怎麼解決布里可不可以給一個嚴厲的方案你們有沒有任何具體的措施可以改善這個被迫亮票的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5607.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5620.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我想這一個我要保障這個秘密投票那現在選務機關大概採取是這個集中投開票所去投票了就會事先去徵詢他把那個投開票那如果很遠呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5621.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5648.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那這一部分我們是盡可能都去處理所以我還是希望因為其實也有人在討論說如果真的要談不在即投票啦其實就應該原住民族可以開始先討論那我覺得這個方向其實也是好的就是反而不是去談什麼通訊投票、境外投票我們就回歸到說不要讓原住民族被迫在一人投票所裡面進去他投了誰當地的所有的社區都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5649.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5661.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我想報告委員這以後到這個移轉投票成熟之後我認為這個問題會去解決那這個我們現在都有在討論先會會有在討論好請你們繼續研擬好謝謝市長謝謝好謝謝黃捷委員質詢市長你們研擬什麼時候會有一個結果結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5672.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5680.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
今天選委會也有來嘛對不對請你們等一下我休息的時候會再詢問你們這件事情好不好謝謝繼續請黃國昌委員質詢麻煩有請次長有請吳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5703.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5729.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
市長今天討論地方制度法雖然是有關乎我們原民的同胞原民的夥伴他們有關於一人席次的問題不過當我們在討論地方制度法的時候跟我們整個國家的發展區域的規劃息息相關的就是各個縣市乃至於都在地方自治的單位上我們要怎麼劃設的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5730.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5745.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
有一個我覺得是非常嚴肅的問題但這個嚴肅的問題隨著選舉的炒作浮上檯面了以後現在似乎沒有人要提了也就是竹竹新竹市新竹縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5746.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5771.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
合併民進黨政府還要不要再推動?然後我們先回顧一下2021年9月6號的時候前新竹市長林志堅接受媒體專訪大篇幅的倡議新竹市跟新竹縣要合併那這個只是林志堅他個人的意見嗎?看起來好像也不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5772.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5800.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這個時候民主進步黨的府院高層說這個足足合併要由中央由上而下來加以推動來請教一下次長這一個政策的目標跟這一個政策的方向有沒有任何改變報告委員有關於這一個合併要升格為直轄市的部分現在有兩個機制一個是由上而下一個是由下而上 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5801.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5826.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
這個我知道一樣的事情就不要再講了我已經點出來啊當初府院高層民主進步黨政府啊說這個是要由上而下來加以推動啊所以我才問你政策立場有沒有改變啊目前這一部分沒有沒有我這邊沒有去接受到說這個政策有改變沒有接受到這個政策有改變好那非常好那從2021年到目前為止2024年啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5829.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5856.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
蔡政府已經要下台啦那既然政策方向沒有改變那過去這兩年多具體而言請問你們做了什麼還是只是在媒體上面放話配合選舉炒作實際上什麼事情都沒幹如果政策方向沒有改變的話那你們就有必要具體的告訴國人針對足足何必由上而下推動政策方向沒有改變那請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5857.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5885.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我們的主管機關做了什麼?法務委員不管是由上而下或者由下而上都必須要尊重這個名義這一部分你一定的這不是我的問題我問你的是你剛說政策方向沒改變嘛由上而下嘛足足合併嘛我的問題是這是在媒體上放話還是有具體的作為所以我請教你的是過去這兩年多你們具體的作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5888.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5908.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
現在因為我們現在也正在推這個行政區劃的程序法現在也在推這個你們在推行政區劃程序法目前推動的進度如何現在在行政院那邊審查你們行政院快要下台啦行政院還在審查啊他審查也有提供意見給我們要補負資料上去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5909.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5936.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以我就說嘛你們行政院519就要下台啦結果現在還在打高空說空話說你們在規劃行政區域劃分法這不是很可笑嗎除了你們還在演你的行政區域劃分法以外你剛說政策方向沒有改變由上而下推動沒有改變你還是沒有回答我的問題具體而言過去這兩年多中央政府做了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5938.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5964.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我要的是中央政府做了什麼請告訴大家我們如何推動這個方向沒有改變的政策過去兩年多做了什麼請告訴大家所以這就是為什麼剛剛跟委員報告就現在我們在推這個行政修法這個程序法只要這個完成之後大家就有法院的預計來處理這個問題所以顯然嘛在蔡政府519下台以前這是不可能完成的嘛我有沒有說錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5966.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5982.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
以這個進度的確是這樣對嘛 所以從頭到尾你還是在講空話我問你具體做了什麼你說要推遲這個具體劃分法那519之前可能提出來嗎 也不可能嘛從頭到尾就在講空話嘛我說的不對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5983.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6007.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
如果我說的不對請您具體指教您做了什麼是全體國人不知道我沒有我疏忽沒有注意到就大聲的告訴全體的國民我們內政部針對2021年由上而下政策方向沒有改變我們足足要合併的這件事情到底做了什麼報恩我剛剛特別講就是法定的完備上現在正在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6008.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6031.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那除了這個由上而下的話由下而上也可以啊也不一定要由上而下沒有關係所以我一開始就定調嘛我就不喜歡你們在回答問題的時候不針對問題回答東拉西扯扯一些沒的就只是要掩飾一件事嘛 掩飾什麼事這從頭到尾就是為了選舉的炒作嘛什麼時候關心過新竹市新竹縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6032.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6058.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
真的關心嗎?真的關心是這種作為嗎?選舉熱度過以後想要幫小智解套失敗了以後就什麼都沒有做嘛這才是現實啊為什麼今天要在地方制度法的時候提出這個質詢啊任何政黨都有可能執政在執政的時候如果是以一黨之師為特定人量身打造的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6060.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6082.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我個人是期期以為不可拿國家的制度在開玩笑等到發現社會反彈太大解套不成結果整件事情殺手不管你們關心誰只有關心特定的政治人物可不可以選真的關心新竹市跟新竹縣的縣民你們今天的具體作為就不會是這個樣子擺爛 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6086.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6114.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
也不是啦!也不是說擺爛啦!因為我們還是有在做嘛!我們在法律、完備法律也在進行當中嘛!2023年做了什麼?針對新竹縣市的合併做了什麼評估?做了什麼規劃?做了什麼推動?我具體的請教你啦!我行政執行的時間當中除了你說老掉牙的行政區位劃分法研議了半天研議到519要下台都提不出來除了這個以外你還有什麼可以說的? |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6115.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6117.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
也不必然一定要跟選舉畫上等號 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6130.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6150.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
民進黨做的事情已經要賴到我頭上了,這樣不對吧,次長。好,沒有關係,主席已經站起來了,我尊重主席,謝謝。好,非常謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢,謝謝。也謝謝次長,謝謝。繼續我們請高卓淵美惠委員質詢。我們在黃建斌委員質詢結束,我們休息五分鐘,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6155.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6160.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
主席,我們請次長。好,有請吳次長,謝謝。委員好。嗨,次長,早晨。次長,今天討論我們這個地方制度法裡面,因為,剛才我說,因為,不管什麼事情,都因為特定人要選。我認為,如果有這個想法,這個想法,想不下去了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6187.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6190.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6200.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6201.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6221.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6235.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6249.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6252.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
法務委員我是不是請我們明天事先跟副總我再討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6256.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6271.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這個部分我們內部一直有在研議說各個版本會影響的其實...沒有啦!我現在是要讓你們問說會應用到、會貫徹、不管是一般性的議員像剛才所討論的說跟現任的議員不會應用到你們要外傭的嘛在外傭裡面這個譬如說一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6282.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6309.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
他所有的付出的薪水也好、助力也好外債是中央要出還是地方政府要出我現在是在問你你這樣在這個官司的應用中你有去跟他們討論過嗎來啦以往有這個議員的一個相關的這個費用要不要增加的部分我們有跟地方討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6312.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6331.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
因為涉及到地方的財政很多是希望說中央能夠補助不過因為這是因為地方應該支出的一個部分你算說有應用度的關係你有去問臺北農團隊主要如果外債的經費是中央來支出的時候他們又買了 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6339.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6352.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
對,基本上因為涉及到議員的部分,縣市政府大概都不會直接表達反對,但是要增加支出的部分是希望中央來補助的。對啦,這就是跟我們明代一屆的組理會一樣啦,大家都不敢反對啦,不敢說出真心話啦,就是剛才你說的這樣啦,沒有人會反對啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6364.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6384.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
但是本席要跟你討論的是在我們的族群融合裡面有需要去分三個、八個你如果這樣未來,我是覺得你要慎慎再去評估一下新住民的權利、他的選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6388.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6393.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6412.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6425.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
有關要不要打破三地原住民跟平地原住民,大概民間也有過這種聲音,那我們也請那個原民會評估這方面的一個意見,但是原民會大概基本上是經過討論,目前還沒有共識。 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6428.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6434.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6448.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6459.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
不然我們常常說財政正義跟族群融合跟這群人有關心跟在這邊的未來你不跟我說嗎?這新住民有可能嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6466.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6481.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6496.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6497.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
案。三、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6500.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6510.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6529.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6546.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
現在有關主民有一千兩百九十二人,那鄉鄉剛好有兩百人進來的時候,還有一千五個人,有一個關主民的時候,是要加掛在裡面,還是要外掛?有這麼可能的,甚至我如果批論說我自己就好了,這樣勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6556.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6561.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
報告委員,剛剛委員當然這個有可能,不是不可能啦。不過就是說我們先去調整一下,先去討論嘛。現在委員講說,這個三眼跟平眼,一起是不是要打破,就把它合在一塊。我想這個都可以討論。因為我感覺族群融合的時候,我感覺時空背景不一樣啦。以前的原住民說實在在三年,要討價、要生活,是非常辛苦。你也知道是怎樣, |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6584.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6588.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
會擬具所定的官署名及本地的官署名的由來所以我也希望你們做政府的人應該是要來融入一個大家庭睡得太清晨這樣也不好是,這個我們會納入研議一起討論的時候因為我剛才說的也 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6608.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6608.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我會想這個到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6623.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6639.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
不然內涵或外加,現在顯然外加是會是一個比較可行的方案。所以現在來看,但是還沒確定我們不曉得。對,還沒確定,還是台北都支持在無黨憲議會,再給這個關注民的平台的旗幟,這樣就對了。以現在的方案是這樣子。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝委員會,謝謝,謝謝,謝謝次長,謝謝。繼續我們請林思明委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6659.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6664.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
好,謝謝我們主席。我們請吳文明、吳次長。有請吳次長。委員好。市長,我想我首先先跟您救救我們這個大新竹矽谷計畫的問題。我想行政院規劃這個桃竹苗大矽谷計畫,期程是2024年到2027年,也就是從今年就開始要做這個計畫的一個規劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6688.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6697.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
未來預計在4年內可新增6兆的產值,就業人口增加了14萬人。這個計劃也是我們即將上任的賴清德總統他競選的政見之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6703.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6726.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那麼前幾天陳建仁院長也到新竹來做視察他也表示說現在桃竹苗地區是台灣之通訊、半導體、國際物流、生醫生技等產業的重要群聚區域也是我們全球最重要的半導體產業聚落之一所以本方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6726.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6739.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
不僅是國家未來總體發展的重要的一個政策更應該兼顧我們地方的一個需求所以我想就教次長對於我們新竹縣有兩個產業園區的規劃在過去一直被延宕 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6743.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6751.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
其中竹科三期也就是我們公園院附近的一個特定計劃區的一個都市計劃那麼也已經經過多次在內政部小組會議的一個審查那麼在明天也要在小組會來做審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6762.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6775.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我想請問,因為是從2020開始嘛,到目前為止,內政部是不是已經把這個桃竹苗大細股計畫將竹科三期納入為這個計畫的這個規劃之一? |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6780.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6796.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
因為這部分是這個國科會那邊不過據我所了解他現在是有這個方向要把他納入是國科會在主導這個要不要把他納入那國科會有沒有跟您討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6797.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6821.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
因為這一部分他不會跟我們討論因為我們是後面的所以你內政部完全沒有任何的資訊因為這一部分沒有到目前為止我得到的資訊是他有要把他放進去我想我剛才講得很清楚這是未來的準總統以及陳建仁院長他要離開了但是我想這個行政院應該也會去繼續推動這樣的一個產業的一個劇烈的一個發展在國發會已經把他納入這兩個的計畫有 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6825.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6854.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
所以我想內政部是不是應該更積極的跟我們的國發會去做這個這個銜接業務上的聯繫積極的更積極的去推動因為明天就要開會了欸是那明天柯山的計畫就所以你應該要有政策的指示啊是明天柯山的計畫在專案小組會去討論是那因為這些新竹縣政府的補充資料也都送過來了是這是明天會開的第一次那內政部的態度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6855.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6879.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們當然支持這個產業的發展,因為我們一定是支持的所以對竹科三期的,因為延宕已經三十幾年了所以內政部的態度是絕對支持竹科三期的規劃是,我們支持啦,因為這個為什麼會延宕那麼久,那中間大概有一些七段徵收會有一些意見吧有些公民團體或者是這個在地的有一些地主或怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6880.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6880.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6901.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6928.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
也一樣非常的重要我想我們現在非常重視的就是我們北台灣的科技、資訊、金融、經濟和商業那竹北現在是我們全台不管是這個各項的發展可以說是非常的快也就是所得最高的一個新興的城市之一很多年輕的朋友尤其是我們科技業者都到竹北來定居以及發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6929.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6943.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6958.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6968.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
所以台資園區一樣是很重要所以未來我們內政部是不是一樣也要積極加速來推動這個產業園區是謝謝委員對這兩個園區的這個關係因為未來這個創新科技產業的發展我想這兩個園區的扮演了很重要的角色那這一部分就內政部全管的部分那我們一定會積極來做是好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6987.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6987.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7006.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7013.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7036.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7050.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
三地原住民,但是他們卻沒有辦法選出他們的三地原住民的議員。所以現行的法律確實有漏洞,所以市長就這個部分的修法,市長是不是完全同意? |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7051.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7072.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
報告委員我想今天有三位委員都有提這個修法的版本那基本上我剛剛特別報告過我們態度開放那我們也持這個不是開放而已啊你要同意啊我們都把問題點出來了我們認為這個方向我們朝這個方向沒有問題啦也支持這個法案的修正我們朝這個方向好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝林士明委員的質詢謝謝次長謝謝繼續我們請黃建斌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7088.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7090.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7098.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7122.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
市長早安市長其實今天這個議題本席其實有另外一種不同的親身的經歷那其實我想法律的修改會隨著因為我們時代的變遷而有所變動這是不變的道理嘛是不是那今天會有委員提出要修這個法案最主要原因也是因為要因應整個時代改變而要去做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7123.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7143.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
本席先分享一下本席過去的工作經驗我其實最早從事政治工作是選鄉民代表我當時選到鄉民代表才發現一件事情就是原來3D原住民是投給區域這個也就是今天提案提到的問題當然每個環境都會有不同的情況確實我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7148.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7165.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
像台中來講它是一個族群突然的地方但是因為現行的法令上它沒有辦法去兼顧到每一個族群特別是它的參政權這個部分確實真的要好好的來思考那怎麼樣讓我們先把保障每個人的參政權這權益都能夠來實行 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7168.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7196.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那除此之外我想還要再跟市長來分享另外一件事情就是我們提到的是民選的民意代表部分我們現在講到的是公職人員部分的在台東的差異性台東是一個同工不同酬的地方以公務人員來講我想要請教市長市長你知道台東縣的公務人員有幾個不同的家籍嗎有幾種家籍你知道嗎這個我就不太清楚應該有所謂的公職人員的家籍吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7197.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7207.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
你們不是都有加擠嗎?清貼不是都有嗎?那是專業加擠的部分那台中有幾項?台中應該要有一個偏遠的加擠吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7208.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7231.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
答案揭曉我們台中有四種一個叫做東台佳籍從本席退伍的時候在公所當業務人員開始到現在630塊到現在佛心價一樣630塊都沒漲過即便現在便當一個都要100塊以上我們都沒漲過第二個叫做山地佳籍也就是會有山地相平向差別第三個叫偏遠佳籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7232.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7258.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
就有些地方他比較遠,他沒有辦法到山泥江的等級,他用這個方式補貼。另外就是因為臺東有兩個離島,所以有離島佳績。一個縣市政府裡面有四種的佳績,有沒有很精彩?市長,如果你今天是一個剛考上的公文委員,你到臺東去,你會選擇除了離佳績以外,你會不會因為這來做考量?佳績的差別做考量? |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7259.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7285.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這個每個人的想法不太一樣基本上會不會啦市長會不會啦市長如果委員問我的話因為每個人的這個太陽不一樣如果是在地的話跟不是在地的想法就不太一樣了市長謝謝你的答覆我現在要分享一件事情台中縣的一個特殊的環境就是我們山地鄉跟北地鄉很多是連在一塊他可能就差一條路 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7287.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7307.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
各位看這張圖表,這是我們關山鎮跟我們的海端鄉。左邊的地方它是海端鄉,右邊它是關山鎮。中間這條路它的家籍就不一樣。我想地方的發展除了錢以外,錢以外,人是另外一個更重要的發展因素,對吧?是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7309.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7335.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這樣,等於是建議啦,偏鄉地區本來發展就不容易,人才流動就是很頻繁。更應該是這樣的情況,我們應該要更想辦法讓人才能夠留在當地,協助偏遠地區的發展。我想李導也是有這樣的講義方式嘛,對不對?是,有。那台東是不是可以比照這樣的方式?對很多人來講,台東,不管你在大武鄉南端,或是北端的長濱鄉,對很多台北人來講,台東都一樣遠。 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7338.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7362.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
是吧?是。郭委員,我想這一部分有關家計的這一部分,因為跟人事單位有關係啦。那其實他們在檢討,我們也會去不斷的滾動式去檢討這個東西啦。是,因為本市到今天沒有消防部會來,不過也是希望能夠將這個問題帶回去。包括我們中部主委應該也了解啦,像我們一樣都是3D箱,大午箱跟達人箱,就是兩個不一樣的方式吧。 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7363.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7372.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案例。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案例。 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7384.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7407.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
每個考試來的外地人三年六年時間大概就離開我想這對地方法人是很大的傷害也希望相關部會能夠將問題帶回去在520之後現在可以開始我們來討論這件事情因為畢竟畢竟這個是我們比現在也是跟我們現在今天討論的這個3D屏蔽人住民的這期是一樣嚴重的事情委員這個我們會帶給人事大會去演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7412.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7413.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7441.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7453.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7458.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7466.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7483.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7487.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具、「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7489.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7515.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7525.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7541.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具、「地方制度法第八條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具、「地方制度法第八條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7544.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7569.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7569.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7583.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7588.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7605.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7607.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7627.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7636.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7643.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7644.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7669.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7671.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7697.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。四、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7698.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7708.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7713.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7741.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
案。三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。四、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。五、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。五、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。五、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。五、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7743.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7768.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7771.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7779.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7781.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7808.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7812.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7830.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7834.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7854.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7856.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7880.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7892.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7894.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
案。三、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7912.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7934.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7941.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7948.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7955.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7979.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7981.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8008.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8011.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8037.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8043.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8065.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8101.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8101.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
好,我們現在繼續開會,請李博義委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8112.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8113.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
韓文淺胡次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8121.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8143.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
謝謝,針對今天我們排定的這個地方制度法修正草案的這個審查有關地方制度法第33條原住民地方議員保障的規定那我先講一下直轄市好了一樣在33條的直轄市裡面,像高雄市高雄市這個三個原民區都有選出區長以前鄉長 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8146.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8171.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
也有選出議員所以高雄市議會目前的狀況有三個原住民、原民區的議員還有一位平原的議員這是高雄市的狀況高雄市直轄市的議員總額在高雄市超過200萬不得超過62人但是他的原住民議員就是另外加上去的這個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8173.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8198.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
但是我們現在今天的修法討論是在討論縣市的議員的部分那所以其實除了剛剛美會議員有提出有沒有跟這些縣市來做出這些溝通之外那我覺得我們也必須要把現在縣市遇到的狀況也必須要拿出來討論一下那我看到一個比較嚴重的問題必須要正式的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8199.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8227.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
來我們縣市議員在第二條的規定縣市議員在1萬人口1萬以下不得超過11人那20萬以下不得超過19人也就是總額19人40萬以下33人這個可能市長你腦中已經浮現有哪一些縣市在40萬上下好80萬以下不得超過43人也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8228.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8253.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
如果現在的縣市有八十萬那人口有八十萬當他在2026的時候人口已經少於八十萬的時候他的議員的人數會從43人降到33人請問市長這樣的縣市有哪幾個縣市還是要請市長我先回答等一下請市長補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8255.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8274.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
現在大概有幾個縣市會降比較多,就是我講的這個屏東跟台東。屏東跟台東,屏東會降幾席?會降12席。降12席,所以我們除了在處理這個,今天我先講齁,因為我過去在高雄市議會的時候,我們幾位呃,園民區的呃, |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8277.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8297.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
三元跟平原的議員為地方爭取很多建設,為他們族人爭取很多福利,他們的問政都是非常優秀的。那我們也會支持說,朝這個方向來討論,到底其他縣市的平原我們要不要來增加,用額外增加的方式,這個方向也都是好的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8298.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8324.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
但是遇到縣市議員他是用總額來納的時候請問我們是不是要修改這個總額還是要朝這個方向來做整體的討論我覺得這個是更必要先必須要一起討論的東西對就是說如果現在討論這個要一起討論或者讓他降的速度會非常快舉例啦舉例屏東屏東如果真的降了11席再增加12席再增加平原 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8325.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8326.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8340.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8352.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
草這個方向來做因為如果內涵的話你會影響到區域但是其實另外一個問題更嚴重就是說人口不到80萬跟人口不到40萬一次吊了11席議員一次吊了1⁴的這個總額的議員這個在地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8358.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8379.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
政治的運作上這個是非常大的問題希望內政部也一併要把這一個案子跟把原住民的這個案子跟地方議員總額的這個案子一併來做一個檢討我們希望是緩降的方式而不是一次就檢了那麼多目前這個方案裡面沒有所以我建議是一致的要來做一個討論跟檢討謝謝委員謝謝李博文委員的質詢謝謝次長的回應謝謝繼續我們請 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8388.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8388.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
吳思耀委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8405.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8433.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
時間很短,我把握時間。針對今天排審地方制度法三十三條,希望能夠擴大對原住民族國人參政的保障。在態度上我們當然是正面的,只是在操作的執行上我們需要再找出一個最高的共識、最好的方向。回到選舉制度上,我們應當好好去思考,要繼續去區分山地原住民、繼續去區分平地原住民,有這個必要嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8435.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8436.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
三、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8465.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8478.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8488.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8507.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這很奇怪啦所以我認為在審議這個條文是真的可以再商榷高金素梅交委的版本其實是一個可以討論的方向那另外我想就教於您今天這個法案修下去之後第一波就是說也是會受影響的縣市大概有八個嘛你們有沒有跟這些縣市徵詢他們的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8510.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8522.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
因為這個還沒有確定說還沒有正式去跟這個縣市政府你們應該預作準備啊立法院都在排審了耶任何一個跟地方縣市的執行而且這個是姿勢體大選舉的名額不管內涵外加這影響當地的縣市政府還有他受監督的縣市議會的這個議員的組成耶和其重大所以如果你還沒有去徵詢那今天審這個那恐怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8538.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8559.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
還值得商榷,趕快去徵詢好嗎?否則立法院跑太快,可是地方政府跟不上,我想這不是提案委員所樂見的,可以嗎?的確,因為這個涉及到可能也不只是席次的問題,你如果有徵檢的話還涉及到經費來源的問題,也就是說地方的希望要去增加嘛,而且這是地方政府要負擔的財源喔,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8562.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8590.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那進入我另外一個主題今天我們在關心原住民族的權益那我要跟您談談反歧視法好下一頁校園不斷出發生出現對於原住民族汙名化或是歧視性的言論從國教到高教我這邊秀出來的有我就以去年2023年台中一中發生了大學端台大言論院也發生了歧視原住民族的海報 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8591.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8594.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8604.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8623.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
台灣需要反歧視法這是落實讓人權條約國內法化所以國際的人權公約第一種就是我們今天相關的種族歧視的國際公約台灣必須有一個國內法來反映我們跟進國際反歧視一切平等的作為下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8624.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8643.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
台灣需要一部反歧視法因為我們要跟上聯合國SDGs的目標而當中一個指標減少不平等的這個指標就包括對於所有人的尊嚴他的社經地位生存平等政府都要給予包容跟支持的政策來協助他下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8647.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8673.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
可是次長你看喔,現在台灣對於反歧視的是散列於各法而且現行的法律是欠缺一致性譬如說我們對性別平等教育法、性別平等工作法是對於性別的平等保障那對於原住民族有一個工作權益的保障可是他就沒有那麼嚴謹我們對於新住民也試圖在入出國籍移民法去規範但是他散列各法,各法欠缺一致性下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8675.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8701.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
所以說我非常樂見我們不分藍綠的立委反族群歧視法在台灣在國會已經有四位委員提案了藍綠都有但是他是focus在反族群歧視法提案的都是原住民族的委員包括本黨的吳立華委員包括本黨的陳寅委員好下一頁我要就教於您的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8702.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8724.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
如果說是四位委員所提的反族群的平等法都會落在主管機關是內政部或是原民會但如果說反歧視法現在法務部以及行政院的人權及轉型正義處同時在研議一個適用於所有對象不同對象的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8726.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8754.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
國家級的反歧視法或稱為平等法。」這是法務部在草擬。換言之下一頁我為什麼這個提問呢?因為陳建仁院長在去年5月接受立法院院會委員的總質詢的時候他說會委由內政部來提出反族群歧視平等法的修法也就是要有內政部的布板但是他是focus在族群歧視的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8755.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8758.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
可是因為我是司法法制委員會我也質詢了法務部部長法務部現在回覆給我說行政院傾向於要把它成為一部專法而不是單獨針對族群做一個單獨的立法所以我就要問你們了 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8770.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8786.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
現在內政部對於族群平等法有繼續研議嗎還是已經停下腳步隨同法務部這個國家內閣一致的用一個反歧視的專法含納所有的反歧視行為現在你們的研議跟方向是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8787.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8798.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
法務委員,我想要先強調,任何歧視是不被允許的。這一部分當初在移民法修正的時候有提到這個反歧視。 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8803.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8819.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
現在講說那這麼大嚴厲反歧視的租金平等法目前是沒有在我們移民署這邊是沒有沒有沒有所以應當就是配合法務部以及行政院的平等處去做一個專法的方向很好下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8820.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8829.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8842.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8843.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
內政委員會委員一定都會支持,好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8870.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8886.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
謝謝主席。好,謝謝吳思耀委員的質詢。謝謝,謝謝次長。繼續我們請莊瑞雄、莊瑞雄、莊瑞雄委員不在、何新淳、何新淳、何新淳委員不在、劉徐廷委員質詢。謝謝主席。次長有請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8899.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8901.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
來我們請次長謝謝這我們先討論的地方制度法的修正那先討論這個原住民的部分剛剛大體上我們也聽了不同的委員對這個法案的不同的想法那其中很多人去提到原住民的身份的認定從光復之後到現在都沒有檢討修正是不是要一併來做處理這當然有一定的道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8924.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8938.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那當然也有這個委員有提到有關這個席次的總額是不是也要做一遍的檢討這些當然都可以討論這本席也同意去做討論但我就要問這過去八年為什麼都不做呢你要不要回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8940.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8959.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我想以前也曾經都有討論過這些啦,不是說沒有討論,只是說現在正式有提案嘛,提案要去討論這個東西,那我們就回過頭來看說這個肺炎病相的這個3D研究品在整個目前現行的地方制度法三十三條是沒有保障到這一塊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8961.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8980.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
所以說眼下立刻在面對的其實就是這些沒有山地鄉的縣市相對來講山地原住民的投票權益他其實變相被剝奪也就是理論上我們按照法律的精神跟規則我們應該選出山地原住民的代表但實務上法規的缺漏讓他們沒有辦法選出山地原住民的代表甚至要去選一般的漢人的這個區域的議員這是不是一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8985.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9008.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
是一個問題對不對?是。所以即便大家去談說原住民的身份要不要一起做檢討?席次的總額要一起做檢討?這都不構成啦!今天這個法案因為知識體大因為要檢討所以我們懷疑、在意我想是不構成這樣子的理由啦!市長同意我這樣的說法嗎?是。不過我報告委員我要特別強調整個雖然現在沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9008.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9023.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
現在這個保障沒有保障到這一塊不代表他沒有參政權他還是有參政權對他的參政權在實際上就是變相被剝奪我剛剛講了嘛他應該要有自己的代表可是實務上他做不到這件事情所以我想這修法法條更動其實數量不多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9023.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9024.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9041.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9056.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
因為你把通關案檢討又變成知識體大就又變成實際上在台灣占有多數的非原住民的民意代表在決定這群人的命運我覺得好像也不是太妥適啦所以作為權益的機制我是希望這樣子的法案修正可以盡速的來過關那當然同步啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9059.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9080.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我們就開始針對原住民的身份針對席射種而做大體的討論兩者並進其實是不衝突的這樣子我們在短期內兼顧了這樣子目前參政權受到偏向剝奪政權的權益但是我們也開始針對長遠的制度規則做討論市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9088.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9110.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
第二部分我們今天討論地方制度法除了我們討論原住民的權益之外另外也討論到直轄市、縣市合併改制升格的狀況過去行政院主政的政務委員曾經講我們在討論過去的行政區劃程序法或者是行政區劃法的規定的時候他們有講說現在地制法就可以啦可是從法理的角度來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9111.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9136.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
2010年所適用的地方制度法施設合併改制的規定是因為我們沒有行政區劃法因為沒有行政區劃法所以它是一個權宜的措施市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9138.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9153.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
後來因為還一直在討論因為有一些不同的意見那內政部是不是應該要趕快加緊來做討論我們現在已經送到院裡面院員審查那有一些要補充資料現在退這個回到我們部裡面我們再整理一些補充資料這個喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9154.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9170.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
第九屆就提過,第十屆委員也提過,民進黨也有提過,民眾黨曾經也都提過,但都沒有辦法完成立法。我是覺得非常可惜啦。當然大家都講說行政區化這件事情可能要盡量求穩定,可是怎麼樣要有一個遊戲規則嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9171.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9197.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那有一個遊戲規則讓大家有一個遊戲規則可以去依循的時候我們才能夠基於選區生活品質的需要來去做行政區化的合理調整讓它切合真正生活圈的這樣一個規範嘛 對不對所以我想這個法案有絕對的必要性而且它是絕對是民生法案啦本期在這裡表達我們的立場嘛我不希望這樣子的民生法案啦因為立法院難免政治位很濃厚但是政治位再怎麼濃厚我們都不能耽誤民生法案的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9197.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9216.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那既然這個我們未來的總統這過去他在行政院長的時候是他的重要的施政目標我也希望未來的內政部啊把行政缺乏法律修訂啊那會第一優先的目標市長同意嗎這個我們會加速來做有沒有一個具體的時間表你剛剛講說已經送到立法院然後有一定的有一定的期程什麼時候我們可以看到院版的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9220.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9242.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
報告委員這一部分我們在補充資料我們會馬上送到行政院去做審理不要馬上大概有沒有一個比如一個月內兩個月大概可以看到草案嘛對不對我們要看到草案我們才做功課準備要修法嘛是我們會盡量快啦因為行政院那邊的審理的時間我們沒辦法去掌握不過我們這邊會你不是行政院的代表你行政院審議時間沒有辦法掌控 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9243.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9267.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我沒辦法因為送到行政院行政院什麼時候開會也就送到你長官放在長官的桌上就對了也不會啦你今天回去這個跟院內報告的時候你就講委員都非常關心這個法案的修正好不好希望他趕快有一個版本可以出來那本席當然啦這個試測我選區的權益啊我們的選區就有地處邊界就有很多的地方是希望透過行政計畫的合理調整讓生活圈能夠一致有這樣的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9268.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9294.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
所以本席也會提出相關的立法草案但是既然這個是不分藍綠的一個施政方向當然也要有一個院版認為可以執行的草案大家來討論的時候它會比較具體啦所以說我們也不要說到最後又只有委員的版本沒有行政院的版本這樣是不太好的好不好所以這個是我再提醒這是賴清德準總統曾經的非常重要的目標我希望在這個任期裡面可以讓這個法案可以順利的修正來過關大家充分來做討論可以嗎好謝謝市長辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9297.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9300.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
好,謝謝劉學廷委員的質詢,謝謝次長的回應,謝謝繼續我們請徐宇貞委員質詢主席好,我們請內政部吳次長請吳次長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9322.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9339.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我想針對今天有關地方制度法的修法是有關我們沒有山地鄉的縣市的原住民在1500人以上的應該有原住民選出的這個議員名額的一個修法也是對我們原住民的政治參與跟權益有一個正面的注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9341.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9366.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
舉例來說,在113年2月的雲林縣的人口統計,您可以看到我們的平地原住民有1442位,山地原住民有1417位,但是因為都沒有達到1500人,所以原住民的聲音一直沒有辦法被反映出來。那未來如果修法有通過的話,雲林縣的山地原住民跟平地原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9366.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9393.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
合計就有超過1500人就可以產生一席的原住民的議員,那他們的聲音就可以被反映。而且修法呢,我想,雖然有幾個樣態,我要請教一下這個次長。請問一下次長,為了不影響既有的議員席次,修法通過之後,新增的這個原住民的議員的席次,是不是可以在原有的名額外增加一席原住民的議員席次? |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9394.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9420.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
法委員如果三十三條修過了以後若採外加的話當然這個就跟區域就沒關係就不影響了我想這樣的話可能就不會去影響原有的議員的席次那另外就是說現在修法通過之後可能會有幾個樣態首先請教您就是說如果平地原住民剛剛我覺得平原跟山原加起來是超過1500人所以說就會增加一個平地 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9421.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9441.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條條文修正草案：一、審查委員� |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9448.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9477.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我這個這個就扯到這個有點複雜了如果這樣可以把尾數給人家這樣鬥的話不過我們現在條件現在確定三元跟平原要不要合併打破合併來一起所以剛剛我要前面第一個樣態就是三元跟平原這個合併計算嘛對那我現在只是提醒你們就是這些樣態有非常多種那可能大家一定要審慎的去研擬之後才能夠對才能夠對提出對我們三元平原最有利的一個狀況那也讓他們可以充分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9478.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9493.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
參與我們的這個在政治那可以充分的發聲是那另外我再請教一下我們今天要探討的是地方制度法的相關條文的修正其中剛剛有提到的就是行政區劃法那因為這個是在106年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9496.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9514.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
實任行政院長賴清德總總統在年終記者會議均衡台灣為題宣誓要啟動台灣行政區劃重劃而且他也在107年的5月行政院也通過了行政區劃法的草案那請問一下當然這中間經過第九屆、第十屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9515.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9530.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
可是到現在都還沒有完成這個立法,既然是賴清德總總統擔任行政院長的時候認為行政催化法有其重要性,請問在這麼長的一段時間內,為什麼沒有提出政府版的草案? |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9530.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9533.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
一直拖到現在才說送行政院。 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9549.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9572.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
禮拜零七年通過行政區劃法的草案到現在已經有五、六年了,那為什麼這麼長的時間都沒有辦法真正把行政院的草案送到立法院來審議?我想以前有送到立法院,只是那時候的名稱後來又改了,又改了名稱,加了一個程序。所以現在到底是什麼樣的原因會拖到現在? |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9573.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9593.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
因為外界有不同的意見進來再加上我們也委託了做了一個研究委託中正大學做了一個研究那去年底有出來啦那我們根據這個研究我們再去這個裝整一些內容條文因為我想這個既然是這個總總統賴清德他在單人新聞院長時候提出來的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9593.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9617.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
所以我覺得內政部應該要重視這件事情要盡快的把行政院的草案能夠盡快送到立法院來審議另外我再想請教你蔡英文總統任內說她要20萬戶的社會住宅其中12萬戶是新建的住宅但是根據內政部不動產的資訊平台顯示我們可以看一下在2024年3月31日的達成數規劃中的是28637戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9623.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9646.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
以絕標帶開工的是28,964戶,新建中的是39,936戶,12萬戶中有97,537戶還沒有辦法居住,現在離520卸任日期差不多只剩一個月了,還有承諾中的81.28的社會住宅不曉得在哪裡。請問一下,這個就是內政部非常重視的社會住宅的規劃嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9648.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9674.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
報告委員,我們這個興建部分是12萬戶,那報酬貸款是8萬戶那實際上這個到3月底是9萬8千戶左右那以這樣的一個速度,我們認為在年底之前可以達成20萬戶的目標也就是說現在還有81.28%還沒有達到,你們在年底之前就可以達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9675.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9691.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
是大名字嗎?因為有一些陸陸續續都有在開工因為我剛剛有跟你講這個數據的嘛所以你們認為你們在過去這幾年沒有辦法只完成了19點19%左右在未來到年底這就可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9692.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9692.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
案。二、審查委員賴清德等100萬戶。 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9714.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9725.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
連20萬戶都做不到,未來100萬戶是不是有可能做到?所以這個部分請內政部一定要審慎的來去處理這樣,不可以再把民眾愚弄喔,拜託大家,謝謝。是,這個我們會努力,謝謝。謝謝徐育貞委員的質詢,謝謝。謝謝,也謝謝吳次長,謝謝。繼續我們請許新穎委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9743.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9746.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
謝謝主席本席請吳次長有請吳次長次長好剛剛在內政委員會林思明委員有特別質詢您就請教您就是說我們新竹縣的臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區還有科學園區三旗的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9768.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9768.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
當初計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9784.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9808.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
但是現在會議都在內政部開都委會這兩個在我們開都委會這個OK沒問題但桃竹苗的大細股的這個計畫這個是在國科會那邊那次次長不好意思請教您你應該擔任次長比本席第11屆來就任委員久嗎您大概擔任次長多久我一年多 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9809.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9824.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
一年多內政部都委會專案小組會議開了非常多次本席在第8屆當立法委員的時候就已經台灣知識經濟旗艦園區的計畫就一直開 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9829.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9852.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
開的時候剛剛您也回覆這個林斯林委員嘛你說他有問你說那為什麼這個都一直不能進入大會還有這個案為什麼不能通過那您的答覆是因為還有很多這個反對的意見是不是公民團體那我在這裡必須要讓次長您知道回去也要 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9853.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9877.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
讓部長知道本席也已經質詢過我們行政院長其實這個是錯誤的從頭到尾中央耽誤地方中央怎麼耽誤地方本席講給你聽就是其實所有的會議每一次會議有不同的意見新竹縣政府就在開完會之後就去溝通協調而且去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9878.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9897.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
即便在都委會的專案會議中已經問題都解決了,可是我們都委會很厲害,召集人把它變化一下,換個召集人,結果新的召集人上來,什麼案子都不知道,全部重新來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9898.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9900.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等十三條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9915.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9931.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
已經不願意徵收的都已經答應他原地保留甚至各種零零星星的意見都已經答覆而且地方都已經大家達成共識了現在只等我們中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9932.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9951.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
就是中央換召集人全部重來本席同時再告訴你我們地方人士還有我們縣政府的局處首長他們覺得很怪的一個點在於你在開會的時候各個單位都邀請來就像明天要召開的 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9952.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9964.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
內政部之外,環境部、農業部、文化部、寇委會、國科會、經濟部、水利署、財政部、電力公司你全部找來了。在現場有問題,徵詢大家答覆。 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9968.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9990.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
然後達成共識有決議。結果呢,開完會以後,我們中央又再寒巡各單位。再寒巡一次,大家搞不懂為什麼。同樣的事情一直做一直做,這個就輪迴。一直的一個迴圈,你就是不願意核准。問題全部都解決了,還是不願意核准。次長你覺得這什麼問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9995.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10018.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我想你委員剛剛講的這個大概在一般的這個案子裡面也許有發生這樣的情形不是一般案子就是台灣知識經濟旗艦園區的案子這個案子我想因為委員專家那個專案小組的委員都有一些意見那希望能夠這個新竹縣政府能夠去做好這些社會溝通意見都已經解決了 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10019.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10040.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
然後你們再換一個新的召集人本席剛剛已經講你就再換一個召集人然後這個召集人他什麼狀況過去沒有參與過去來不及參與所以他又重新來一次這個案子會十幾年就是這樣鬼打牆一直中央擔任地方中央擔任地方這是最大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10041.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10063.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
所以這一點本席請你回去,你們不要再這樣,如果再這樣我們也會有對峙的方法。好,這個剩下一分鐘本席要就今天地方制度法修正條文請教,請教次長。今天內政部報告第四頁提到,基於離島地區的特殊需要建議在 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10065.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10075.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
既有法規基礎上,是實際需要適時辦理修訂。」這句話應該是在回應我們李導的陳奕真委員的提案吧?是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10076.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10104.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
請問次長您同不同意照顧離島的政策?同意對不對?沒關係你就回答一下,同意嘛請問次長報告這樣回應的意思是要建議修正離島建設條例嗎?如果有需要的話我們認為去修這個地方那到底有沒有需要?那就看地方那地方覺得有需要所以你就覺得要修正離島建設條例那請問次長是不是也可以訂專法? |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10106.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10123.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我跟委員報告,訂專是委員講的這個基本法以現在基本法我們現在訂都按照特殊設任北來做這個基本法的這個訂定沒有針對區域北在訂定基本法這是一個那第二個就是說我們現在離島建設條例啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10124.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10135.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
已經對這個離島的這個有照有有做到照顧如果因為文化教育或者社福這些沒有照顧到所以我們來建議說可以在離島建設條例去修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10137.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10155.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
好,所以你建議離島政策條例可以去修正,那所以內政部是不是責無旁貸?應該要積極的研擬,主動提案,照顧起我們離島國人的責任,那不要讓立法委員提案後又反對修法。國會去討論,因為這個離島政策條例是那個國會那邊訂立的法令嘛,那我們會來跟他們去討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10163.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10163.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
請鄭天財委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10195.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10221.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
主席、國務委員、有請次長、還有中副主委。兩位好。三地原住民、平地原住民的劃分已經行之有年,而且是憲法明定。所以當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10223.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10235.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
當初本席在擔任處長計劃處的嚴明會的企劃處處長朝你這個原住民身份法的時候就是因為憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10237.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10265.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
還留著山地原住民跟平地原住民的規定所以在制定原住民身份法的時候必須還是有山地原住民跟平地原住民所以這個部分已經涉及到憲法的層次這是第一個第二個今天我們談地方制度法三十三條本期要特別跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10266.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10289.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。四、審查委 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10291.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10319.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
直轄市有原住民人口在四千人以上的一千項總額內應由原住民選出直轄市議員沒有分三三平三而且是要在總額之內在馬英九執政開始的時候因為為了因應他要提出五都五都的這個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10320.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10347.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
所以要修地方制度法本席那時候不是副主委民國97年98年的時候本席已經降掉紀監了降掉紀監但是本席親自跟張仁香主任委員報告是不是用這樣的機會直轄市要多成立了會涉及到臺中縣市的合併 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10349.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10377.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
台南縣市的合併、高雄縣市的合併怎麼樣因應原住民的參政權不受到影響所以本席提出了這個修正條文給張仁香主任委員後來他指派我去參加內政部的會議參加會議之前我跟這個內政部當時的次長林中生次長先溝通協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10379.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10406.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
他支持按照現在的條文現在的條文就是分三顏平顏這樣才能夠保障因為沒辦法因為本來的台南縣市有啊有分啊包括台中縣市有分啊高雄縣市有分啊不去處理的話絕對會減少所以去做了這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10407.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10435.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
而且人數本來是四千人,那就各兩千,而且還比現議員的高一千五百,所以也符合所以內政部當初就接受,而且為了避免影響七億的議員、七億的直轄市議員的名額,所以也做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10435.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10464.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
不在總額之內,不影響區議的意願。」所以必須要去,嚴明會有很大的責任,因為政府也沒有那麼重大,對於政府的官員來講沒有那麼重大,但是對於原住民而言是很重大。所以原住民的,嚴明會要主動去溝通去協調,然後把這個方向要把它抓住,抓好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10465.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10494.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以今天也不是第一次審查我們上一屆審查很可惜沒有過所以這樣的一個情況之下地方立法機關組織準則對於直轄市的部分也是在不影響7億的名額不影響7億的名額其他的議員、7億的議員、立委也不會反對所以這個部分本席提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10495.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10524.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10524.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10551.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10552.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10581.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
相親族室有超過嗎?還有呢?還有呢?對不對?我們不影響,不要去影響契約。所以這個部分,這樣的話,你要一個很具體的方向說明給所有的立法委員,他們就會去支持,就不會產生那個疑慮啊。質詢的時候一直談那個疑慮, |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10582.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10584.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10598.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10616.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
非常謝謝鄭天財委員在特別的強調我們並沒有在現行的一般區域的議員裡面的總額而是外加的所以並不會影響目前的區域立法議員的席次這是特別要強調的一點謝謝繼續我們請張志倫委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10630.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10655.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
主席好,各位官員、各位委員,大家早安,大家好。是不是有請政次?有請吳次長。我也好。好,政次早安。那今天討論這個地制法非常重要。我們大家都知道我們地方會選出我們所有地方縣市首長以及縣市議員,以及各位民意代表、鄉鎮市長代表,以及我們的里長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10656.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10686.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
今天在討論地制法的時候我本席個人感覺好像我們地方第一線直接面對民眾的這些里長的權益好像有受到忽視所以本席先針對過去存在已久的里長的問題的定義跟權益的問題來跟正式來做請教因為從本席的角度內政部現在好像把里長的工作授予好像叫做榮譽職的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10686.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10712.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
沒有薪資的待遇只有一些些許的補助比如說像健檢的費用跟保險費尤其大家可以從過去不管是疫情的那陣子里長非常的辛苦有些時候都是24小時不停的在工作可是有些基本的勞工的權益都沒有也跟正式報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10713.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10730.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
現在全臺灣有七千七百四十八位里長村里長六都超過半數這數字六都超過半數高達四千一百六十八位請問一下就正式而言我們的里長到底屬於我們的民意代表還是一般的壽星階層 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10739.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10750.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
村里長的定位我們認為是村里公務的一個受託人他是公務人員嗎村里公務的受託人他是要受鄉鎮市的一個指揮 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10752 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10770.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
是,什麼叫,你可以再解釋清楚什麼叫做受託人,他是,到底算是公務人員還是算是這個一般的壽刑階級?呃,包委員,因為基本上村議長他是可以兼職的,他可以兼做他的商業,所以基本上他不是公務人員,他沒辦法像公務人員這樣受到規範。 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10772.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10789.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
所以要跟政事這邊拜託因為包含臺北市、台中市很多地方政府都希望中央可以以法令來明確讓大家知道里長的地位到底是什麼權利義務到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10789.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10814.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
到底有哪一些的權利?因為現在其實一般的機車里長非常的辛苦都有過勞的一個情況而且常常過超時工作沒有拿到任何的補償地方都是怨聲載道請問中央的這部分是不是可以來協助地方來做明確的法令的一些定位?到底里長的職位是什麼?他們有沒有一些比如像勞動者一樣的一些的補助跟津貼? |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10816.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10845.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
有關村里村里長目前很多接受了很多各部會這個委託的這些工作那我們也接受到地方反映說村里長所要兼的各部會交辦的任務實在太多所以我們也詢問給各個部會對於各個部會回到他們應該做的事項的部分盡量減少這個村里長要去做的這些任務事實上這些工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10845.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10852.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
可能村里長在要負責一個里長要負責我簡單我來請當初全臺灣的村里長來請議有沒有辦法齁村里長有沒有辦法保勞健保勞退退休金的部分有沒有辦法來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10863.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10883.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
因為村里長他不是公務員所以姚建寶的這個部分還是回到村里長輸入補助費的一個規定他還是可以這個有村里長的一個保險好我們目前在這個部分我拜託中央再來研議那第二個三節獎金年終獎金的部分有沒有辦法幫村里長來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10884.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10885.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10899.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10924.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
正式的部分可以來回答一下有沒有辦法幫所有辛苦的村里長來做一個慰問的部分我想很多的委員大概都非常關心我們村里長的這一個不管事務會的部分或者是保險或甚至於所謂的春節慰問金的部分有沒有辦法有沒有辦法中央趕快來研議一下因為真的不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10925.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10932.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10947.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10966.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這個大概要去討論的不只是我們的部分還有包括縣市政府因為這些未來如果有這些項目的話那他的裁員都是地方政府必須要去編列那他有些縣市政府的裁員是有限的所以這個必須要縣市政府大家要這個共識那最後一個我最在意的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10967.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10991.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
村里長都有過時的一個加班費有沒有辦法領救加班費第二個然後最後我要特別強調最近一直在提到過去不及疫情的時候很多村里長要去送這些疫情的相關的物品非常的危險而且第一線有時候都會接觸到這些染疫的人而且最近很多的這個地震停電他們都跑第一線有沒有可能給一個叫做危險的津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10992.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11008.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
不然他誰願意第一線跑到第一線去來做這些事情?因為這一部分我們所有村里長都有保險甚至我們現在保險已經把這個寶盒500萬都拉到1000萬了所以我想這一部分是有保險可以去cover |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11008.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11037.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
好,所以拜託再盡快來去演繹剛剛講到三級的獎金年終獎金的部分那我再講一下剛剛很多的委員有提到說我們原住民的這個選舉的部分有總共我們有統計2020年的時候統計1,253間投票所裡面只有一張原住民的選票顧名思義就是會有這個選票這個大家會知道說到底他是投誰那這個不在籍投票的部分你們有沒有演繹大概要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11038.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11053.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這一部分先委會有在願意那現在就那個秘密投票一個人的部分那現在採取都是徵選以後去做集中投票後的投票那拜託1653間投票所要趕快來集中把這個問題要解決不然的話投票率會變低好最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11054.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11077.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
就這次2024的總統跟立委選舉本席就知道非常多的警消人員沒辦法回去投票請問一下內政部這邊是不是要來研議為什麼那麼多警消人員他在第一線在協助執勤的時候為什麼都沒辦法回去投票為什麼他們沒有列入在不再一起投票或是不再當這個不再投票的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11080.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11099.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
報告委員這一部分執行中的這個員警的部分當然我們現在因為不再計投票還沒有開始那我們這一部分大概解決方式大概用排班的方式來解決他沒有排班的話他也沒有辦法瞬間買到票比如他住台中他也不可能台北的跑去台中投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11101.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11124.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我想這一部分大概...這個...至於警員部分...所以我拜託拜託齁我們正式這邊一定要趕快去統計一定要我們台灣是民主的自由法治國家齁因為這些警消的人他們沒有辦法去投票的話其實會喪失他們這個的權益啊所以這部分再一定要來檢討他們的投票權都能夠保障好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11125.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11125.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11152.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11176.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
有請我們次長,今天是吳次長來,部長今天公務請假,謝謝次長好,我想我們現在是2025就是進入那個超高齡的社會我想要來討論的一個是租屋的問題,老年人租屋的問題其實這個在我之前在新北市政府服務的時候我就一直在關注這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11177.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11196.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
因為目前我們台灣的社會對於老人租屋這一塊其實我覺得著力不深所以導致大家在年輕的時候拼命想要買房子因為老了你可能住不到房子如果沒有小朋友或小朋友沒有辦法提供給你住的地方你在外面你租房子是有困難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11197.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11212.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11216.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11236.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那當然原因有很多啦那所以說我現在想要請教的就是部長你知不知道在租屋網站上面如果房東載您租屋條件不租給45歲以上或是要求老夫妻租屋只要一人過世就要搬家請教您這個契約的約定有沒有違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11238.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11264.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
麻煩我是請國土署先跟...速度快一點好,國土署,謝謝那個租的部分如果違反那個我們那個定型化契約的話其實是無效的啦,這個部分那所有權人,不,那個陳租人可以主張這個他違反這個契約的相關規定不是啊,你是不是講錯了,什麼叫違反定型化契約就叫無效定型化契約就是一個法律名詞,你不能這樣亂用 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11266.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11290.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
違反它強制規定無效這一點我可以接受你剛剛可能講錯了沒關係沒關係我剛剛有一頭霧水那我現在直接跟你們講答案好了就是目前在我國契約自由原則之下除非是違反公序良俗或強制禁止的規定都是有效也就是說如果有房子不願意租給老人家這是沒有違法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11291.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11294.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11310.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11336.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
他到最後他只能住到城市的最邊緣環境更差的地方就導致在這種地方住久了他身體可能會更不好身體能好那才是見鬼了所以我想請教一下目前對於這個社會住宅的部分因為老人還必須跟其他弱勢團體去爭這個社會住宅的排序那請問一下對於這些老人他有沒有一個不一樣的這個輪候積分的這個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11340.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11368.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
目前他是我們那個住宅法社會住宅經濟經濟或社會弱勢的一個對象之一啦那這個部分的話要看各地方政府他在針對65歲以上老人有沒有特別的加分那有的部分有的部分是會把他的分數積分的評點分數是比較高我想麻煩你們演繹一下對老人是不是要不一樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11369.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11393.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
因爲就像我剛一開始講2025年我們超高齡社會社會上面對於老人的保障是不是不足請你們在一個月內稍微研議一下在排序積分上面要不要有所改變我一直覺得啦我其實很佩服那個內政部是一個大部那我也小時候我們大家念書念過那個李運的那什麼李記的李運篇他不是有講過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11394.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11413.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11416.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11425.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
同時注意在保障小朋友之外還要再思考越來越多的老年人我們有沒有給他足夠的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11426.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11452.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
台灣自由房屋率這麼高有一個很大原因就是大家怕老了以後沒有房子可以住我家人也都是擔心這個點所以年輕的時候拼命要買房子導致房價可能拼命往上漲這也是一個原因所以內政部是不是應該要介入老人租屋這一塊像日本一樣國家的力量介入讓房東你在租房子的時候你必須要負起一些社會責任你賺這個社會人的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11454.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11469.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那你要負起一點社會責任你不能說老人家我在租屋企業裡面就給你限制一大堆不租給老人該裁罰就裁罰該介入就介入對於社會住宅的排序也要注意一下老人年齡的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11470.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11492.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
年紀大了其實有點類似越來越趨於弱勢經濟也弱勢身體狀況也不如以前也是我們要保障的我們都會老嘛那有一天我們也是需要這些所以我希望我們一起來努力這一塊好不好那一個月內能夠給我們一個那個修正做法的回覆好謝謝委員那這一部分我們會來檢討我們會把這個資料給非常謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11497.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11507.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好謝謝吳中興委員的質詢謝謝我們第一次在內政部會見到歡迎你來謝謝也謝謝吳次長繼續我們請吳祁銘召委質詢好謝謝召委請我們內政部我們的吳次長請吳次長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11527.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11546.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
市長好,今天我們針對討論的地方制度法的修正草案那我們的縣市的席次總人口是涉算的總額那包含我們現在說關心的就是我們的平地原住民還有山地原住民他們所保障的席次 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11547.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11574.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那憑例於原住民的議員的名額所剩的席次與非原住民的7億的議員的名額那本席今天所關心的我們原住民的席次他們的席次以及非原住民的席次的比例那未來有做調整會不會影響到我們7億的議員的席次 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11576.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11602.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
法務委員,如果是外加,不會影響。不會影響嗎?好,那不會影響,那大致上我們還是很支持我們原住民,只要是不涉及、排擠到我們會原住民的席次,那我們大致上還是樂觀其成。那本席在這邊請教我們的次長,本席過去所關心的就是我們全國的村里長,村里長, |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11603.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11629.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
他們包含在各項的災害的發生他們都在第一線包含我們過去的疫情那我們村里長他們都是真的很辛苦那我從過去的市會調升到五萬塊調升五千塊但是他們的比例還是有點嫌粗就是我們大家關心的我們公務人員都有1.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11630.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11650.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
一連五倍的連中獎金。那是不是次長,針對我這一次所提案的增加1.5倍的連中獎金,你的看法是如何?報告委員,我想我剛剛特別提到村議長的這一部分,的確因為他在最基層。 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11651.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11675.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
那有很多的我們的委員都相當關心村里長的這個春節慰問金或者他的事務費那是不是應該要提高那我想這個大家可以去討論因為這個涉及到不是只有說他要不要提高涉及到後面裁員的問題也是一項那另外就是說村里長的部分跟縣市議員的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11676.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11689.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
是不是應該同時去討論或者分開討論?我想這個都是我們可以我們的立場就開放大家一起來討論。開放大家一起來討論?是。那以次長你的立場是支持的? |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11690.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11705.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
因為這一個村里長的事務會那時候從四萬五條到五萬那這個現在要再調那這個我想大家現在不是調是我們的年終慰問金年終要加的那個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11706.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11734.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那下一部分這個我想我們討論方向這個朝正面的方向去討論可以正面的方向嘛好那希望我們都能來推動因為村里長不管在任何包含我們這次的地震也好包含過去的疫情也好他們都站在第一線上面是挺辛苦的那我們還是會繼續來推動那也拜託我們次長這邊的支持啦還有拜託議會我們的立法委員大家都能共同來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11735.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11763.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那針對本席首先也要感謝我們那個活動中心的補助已經確定了列案在土城包含公所包含我們幾個活動中心一些修繕在我們的內政部我們的民政司這邊的補助這邊我也再次借用這個機會來感謝我們次長感謝我們的民政司我們所有工作同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11764.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11764.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11790.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11790.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
審查委員吳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11801.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11823.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
好 次長好就是今天我們討論我們的地方制度法的一個調整那其中有一個部分其實也跟那個我們的地方的自治團體有關係就是其實我在去年就開始幫我們很多地方議員的助理來發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11825.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11828.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11839.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11859.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
而我們的地方議員的助理,因為這個制度,因為法令一直都沒有做調整,有長達24年都沒有辦法調新。比如說像軍公教,他每一年我們還隨著這個物價而做調整,可是呢,我們地方議員的助理是長達24年沒有調新。 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11861.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11874.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11881.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11882.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11902.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11923.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
也是一樣完全的跨黨派,他沒有黨派之爭也就是大家都意識到因為我們很多的委員包含我自己都來自於我們原來也是地方的議員那麼我們都支持對於助理24年沒有調薪對他們來講真的是不公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11924.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11951.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
但是非常可惜的是我們內政部一直用各種的理由推脫甚至前不久還透過特定媒體來做放話說這是一個錢坑法案我不大能夠理解因為包括你可以看到這裡面這麼多的這個立法委員跨黨派立委這裡面比如說像吳思耀委員他還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11952.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11976.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
還是執政黨民進黨籍的幹部所以怎麼會說我們跨黨派的委員大家一起說來做一個乾坤法案其實我們是要去調整一個長期不合理的制度所以在這邊想請教次長當立法院裡面已經有這麼多的案子都已經提出來了那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11978.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11998.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我們內政部針對地方議員助理的調整我們的看法是什麼?報告委員,我想這一個案子大概是所有各黨各派最有共識的一個案子。大家一致同意?是。我想這一個24年沒有去調整的確有討論空間了。那至於怎麼調? |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12001.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12020.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
條的幅度有多少,條的項目怎麼調,我想這個大家必須要還有共識。可以討論嘛,可是不能因為他會增加地方的支出,也確實我們承認會增加地方支出,可是不能因為這樣子而讓這些助理都一直都不能調薪嘛,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12021.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12023.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
法定人數、上限、調整幅度、金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12051.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12056.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
所以內政部可以支持是不是?我們可以來討論,因為地方有很多方案,而且項目也不一樣,那這個可以討論。好,那是最好的,我這個大概是我到現在為止,因為事實上我去年也同樣在這個地方也做質詢,當時內政部事實上是幫我打太極拳的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12069.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12069.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12084.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12107.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
好,非常謝謝洪威的質詢,謝謝。我們請次長回去之後,把各委員提的版本,你們做一個討論看法,然後本席辦公室會請你們到我的辦公室來做一些說明,好不好?好,謝謝,謝謝洪威,謝謝。繼續我們請羅志強,羅志強,羅志強委員不在,張家俊,張家俊,張家俊委員不在。 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12107.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12127.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
鄭正前鄭正前鄭正前委員不在謝一鳳謝一鳳謝一鳳委員不在林俊憲林俊憲林俊憲委員不在沈發慧沈發慧沈發慧委員不在羅明財羅明財羅明財委員不在邱志偉邱志偉邱志偉委員不在現在請鍾嘉斌委員質詢慢慢來很喘吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12133.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12146.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
主席、在場委員、先進、列席的政府局長、首長、官員、會長、公眾夥伴、媒體、技術女士先生。有請我們內政部吳次長。還有原民會的中副主委。中選會的余處長。次長好、副主委好、還有余處長好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12154.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12177.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我先請問一下我們的副主委請問目前我們在選舉上常用來稱呼的三地原住民跟平地原住民是從什麼時候開始有這樣的界定的?三地原住民跟平地原住民選舉的部分在選舉的時候會有這樣的區分是從什麼時候哪裡開始有這個規定? |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12182.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12201.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我曾經擔任國民大會代表第三屆在1996年到2000年的時候,那時候我們曾經修過憲法整修條文,有記憶了嗎?在爭俄國大之前,我們為了讓原住民族的參政權在憲法的程式當中得以保障, |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12201.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12226.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
所以是不是我們在徵修條文當中特別針對當時在終結萬年國會之後我們進行國會的全面改選有鑒於要保障原住民族的參政權所以我們在徵修條文當中有如列了三地原住民跟平地原住民的區隔並且名額分別計算有沒有是好那我們請中選會那個余處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12228.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12245.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那請問我們歷來辦理這樣的一個選舉跟其他的選舉有沒有連動關聯還是在辦理立法委員選舉的時候我們就按照這個憲法正條文規定辦理還是要受到其他的地方選舉或是民意機關的改選而影響有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12247 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12265.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我們就是依法來辦理。依法來辦理,這個有回答跟沒回答一樣。好,我先問一下次長啦。次長,您也是過去在地方政府服務過啦。你覺得地方政府、地方民意機關的職權和中央政府立法委員的職權是不是有所區別? |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12266.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12290.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
所以為什麼會有地方制度法跟我們正優條文對於國家憲政機關的規定是不太一樣的?是不是這樣?所以你認為我們地方政府、地方議會、地方民意機關、地方民意代表產生方式是否要完全比照憲法或正優條文當中對於中央民意機關或者是立法委員選舉方式的計數? |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12292.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12307.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我想這個憲法程式它規範大概是立法委員部分它有規範那地方的部分就回歸到地制法的相關規定所以並沒有一定要由地制法來比照好來我們請中務主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12308.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12333.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
請問一下,原來你知道在當初設定3D原住民跟平地原住民的時候,有規定3D原住民一定要住在3D鄉,那平地原住民就不能住在3D鄉嗎?有沒有這個規定?並沒有這個規定。並沒有這個規定?這是以他原來居住的環境當時設定的。對,當時有他的設定。後來,原住民有固定就在那個地方不能動了嗎?遷徙自由。遷徙自由嗎?是。所以現在六都是不是有很多的原住民同胞在裡面居住?是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12334.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12339.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那請問居住在六都裡面的原住民朋友他到底是山地原住民還是平地原住民? |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12340.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12368.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
在沒有選舉的時候會有區分嗎?或者坐高鐵的時候要區分買票嗎?並沒有。有沒有去登記戶籍的時候要區分來計算嗎?依目前來講,三元片大概在選舉的時候才有參選。對,而且是在選立法委員的時候,對不對?所以可不可以說,為了保障居住在我們六都或者非山地鄉的這些原住民的參政權,他的參與地方民意機關的名額的設計, |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12370.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12392.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
他不受到憲法正六條文三元跟平元的規範,有沒有這樣的要求?並沒有,不過如果提升他的參政權我們都樂觀其成。好,當然我也是認為要保障在不管居住在哪裡原住民同胞的參政權。你知道我們屏東縣,來我請一下中選會,處長。你知道目前屏東縣的縣議會有幾席嗎?目前?對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12398.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12413.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
五十五席五十五席,那他是因為原來在人口五十萬以上,八十萬以上是五十五席嘛,那現在屏東縣的公民人口數已經未達八十萬了,以後會剩幾席 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12414.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12416.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等四十三條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12434.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12461.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
但是我發現過去我們在地制法的設計的時候有一點有一點過頭的去沿用了憲法正確條文當中對於原住民行使中央民意機關參政權的三元跟平原的規定也在六都當中的人口居住人口當中去創設了三元跟平原而且呢只有針對平原的部分以名額的特殊規定的計算三元並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12461.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12471.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
那我要說的啦,三元跟平元本來就存在於立法委員的選舉。地方民意機關不管你是都還是非都,並沒有這樣的區分,是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12473.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12497.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我們有這樣的區分嗎?我剛剛就問過了嘛。難道說你在投立法委的時候在山原、在平原,會限制你住在都還是非都?住在山地下還是非山地下?有沒有?這部分是沒有。沒有嘛。所以為了充分保障每一個都或非都地方政府的自治,應該以當地人口當中,我們就區分成原住民族跟非原住民族,來保障原住民族的席次計算,你認為這樣適不妥適? |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12501.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12505.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
無好回答還是這是你們希望我們本會解決的本願解決的 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12508.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12532.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
現在大家還沒有討論說我們到底要不要跟他併在一起對,所以我是問嘛,你的意向嘛,可能你們不便回答我認為在目前的版本當中,有的版本呢,還沒有去思考到其實保障原住民同胞的參政權在都與非都,在地方議會的選舉當中,其實是沒有做區分分別計算的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12533.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12536.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
但是同此時間因為它的額數的計算會牽動到地制法當中對於該縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12543.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12567.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
議會名額計算,以屏東縣為例,你八十萬是包含已記錄原住民同胞選民為主,從八十萬到不到八十萬就差了十二席。但是如果我們把原住民族的參政權把它區分開來,我們把屏東縣的八十萬不到八十萬人口七十八萬區分成原住民跟非原住民,那這樣算起來,屏東縣的非原住民的議會席是可以幾席? |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12570.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12586.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
有沒有大概出算過?我聽說大概只有少了五席,大概是49席到50席,大概是不是這樣?對,如果假設是,這跟他外交一樣,他會少五席又會換掉。因為目前各版本有外交有內涵,不是只有影響到原住民族選民的參選權利, |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12587.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12613.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
也影響到非原住民同樣居住在同一縣市的其他選民參與參選的席次的計算元額,是不是這樣?所以我在這裡本席謝謝主席給本席這樣的時間我希望我們未來在討論地制法這個議題的時候我強烈的支持保障我們原住民朋友在地方政府、地方議會的參政權包括他的席次名額應該單獨計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12615.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12640.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
但是沒有受到憲法徵效文三元跟平元的這個區分的必要。第二,在計算名額的同時,也要兼顧到該縣市居住的非原住民人口在計算之下預期的消長的變化,為妥善的規劃。請問這樣的內容,市長你可以承諾給我們一個射算的結果嗎?我們會把射算的結果提出來。這個很快,我們... |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12643.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12661.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
一天兩天還是下個星期我們下個星期就可以好那我就跟拜託主席做個裁示希望內政部盡快的把這樣的設算的一個可能的方向給我們本院也提供一個本委員會來參考以作為後續各個版本修法的時候的參酌可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12663.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12685.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
因為委員還有其他沒有提這樣的版本那今天我們修的版本就是由高金素的委員但是我們今天就要排審我的版本還有鄭天財委員一定徵兇條文這五立法委員但是你剛剛說的是平原三原這個部分因為我們今天是只有三原的部分好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12686.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12688.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
楊瓊英、楊瓊英、楊瓊英委員不在、洪孟凱、孟凱、洪孟凱委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12703.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12719.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
丁學忠、丁學忠、丁學忠委員不在。我們登記發言的委員除了不在場者之外,其餘的都已經發言完畢,我們詢答結束。委員莊瑞雄、丁學忠所提的書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12721.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12722.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
書面質詢及未及答覆請相關單位在一週之內以書面答覆並複製本會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12752.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12770.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12783.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12808.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。四、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12820.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12821.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13164.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13185.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
報告委員會我們現在進行法案的審查請宣讀討論事項所有條文還有修正動議但是我必須要先在這邊請問一下吳立華委員因為您是修正動議進來的您是以哪一個版本為修正的這個條文因為我們請議事委員解釋一下請議事委員解釋一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13191.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13202.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那跟各位我們報告齁因為我們現在目前齁那個目前的排案是有有那個高金素梅委員還有鄭天財委員還有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13204.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13226.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
陳一貞委員賴士葆提案。五立法委員的修正動議只針對第三十三條。第三十三條因為交付下來就只有高金素梅委員還有鄭天財委員的版本。因為你是修正動議,沒有在委員會裡面?對,沒有交付到委員會。那你是要有一個主委員,你是要修正誰的? |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13234.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13234.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13239.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13266.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
不好意思吳立華委員,你的文字其實跟我的比較像,而且你條文跟橡木都比較像,對啊,對不對,還是我的啦,不然的話,對對對,謝謝,因為你跟鄭天財文版本就木跟橡都不太一樣,好不好,好,謝謝。好,我們就吳立華委員是針對高金素梅委員的版本進行修正動議,然後我們一起宣讀,宣讀完畢後我們進行協商,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13269.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13292.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
委員賴士葆等20人提案修正第七條之一將第一項修正為內政部基於全國國土合理規劃及區域均衡發展之需要擬將縣市改制或與其他直轄市縣市合併改制為直轄市者應擬定改制計劃並徵得各該直轄市政府縣市政府及各該直轄市議會縣市議會之同意後報請行政院核定之其與同縣行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13293.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13316.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
委員陳玉珍等18人提案,增訂第七條之四。第七條之四,依《中華民國憲法增修條文》第十條第十二項後段對於澎湖、金門及馬祖地區人民之保障規定,應制定《離島基本法》為特別保障規定。前項《離島基本法》未完成立法前,如有涉及離島人民之權益事項,行政院須訂定規制《離島人民之特別保障法規》命令。 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13317.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13332.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
第三十三條委員高金素梅等21人提案將第二項第二款第二目修正為二、由山地鄉之縣市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者或中華民國111年11月26日有平地原住民選出之議員名額者 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13333.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13355.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
應有平地原住民選出之縣市議員名額,有山地原住民人口在1500人以上或有山地鄉者應有山地原住民選出之縣議員名額,市及無山地鄉之縣有原住民人口在1500人以上者應有原住民選出之議員名額。增訂第二項第二款第三目。三、有離島鄉且該鄉人口在2500人以上者應有該鄉選出之縣議員名額。 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13358.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13384.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
將第二項第三款第二幕修正為二、山地鄉以外之鄉鎮市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額。第六項修正為直轄市及有山地鄉之縣市選出之山地原住民平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者名增加4人增一人市及無山地鄉之縣選出之原住民名額在4人以上者 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13385.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13412.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
應有婦女當選名額,超過四人者每增加四人增一人。三地鄉以外之鄉鎮市選出之平地原住民名額在四人以上者應有婦女當選名額,超過四人者每增加四人增一人。其餘同縣型條文委員鄭天財等17人提案將第二項第二款第二目修正為二、縣市有平地原住民人口在一千五百人以上者應有平地原住民選出之縣市之縣原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13413.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13426.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
應有平地原住民選出之縣市議員名額有山地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有山地原住民選出之縣議員名額有山地鄉者應有山地原住民選出之縣議員名額有離島鄉且該鄉人口在2500人以上者應有該鄉選出之縣議員名額 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13430.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13451.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
將第二項第三款第二目修正為二、鄉鎮市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額。三、地鄉以外之鄉鎮市有鄉地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有鄉地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額。其餘同現行條文。修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13458.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13482.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
第三十三條修正動議,將第二項第二款第二目修正為二,縣市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之一元名額,有山地原住民人口在1500人以上或有山地鄉者應分別有山地原住民選出之一元名額。增訂第二項第二款第三目,內容同委員高金素梅等21人提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13484.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13513.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
將第二項第三款第二目修正為二、鄉鎮市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之代表名額有山地原住民人口在1500人以上或有山地鄉者應分別有山地原住民選出之代表名額將第六項修正為直轄市縣市以及鄉鎮市選出之山地原住民平地原住民名額分別有4人以上者應分別有父母當選名額超過4人者名增加4人增一人其餘同縣級條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13515.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13518.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
提案人委員蘇巧慧等5人 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13526.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13553.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
我們現在進行協商因為剛剛在休息的時候昭偉我有跟國民黨團有跟民進黨團也有跟內政部我們討論了就針對高金素梅委員還有鄭天財等提案修正第33條我們先來處理因為大家比較沒有意見好不好那大家看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13554.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13556.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
我的第三十三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13560.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13580.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
第二項、第二款、第二幕、我增訂的是第三幕、第二項、第三款、第二幕、還有第六項的部分,大家參考一下文字。事實上我剛剛在質詢的時候說明了,其實我們會增加的席次大概只有四席而已,而且是外加的部分。對於現在的區域的議員的席次並不會影響到。 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13586.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13604.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
因吳立華的修正版本也是這樣子,事實上鄭天財委員的文字跟我也是大致相同,所以剛剛討論的結果就由高金委員的修正版本通過,是不是可以這樣子? |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13609.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13615.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
你剛才說的那個問題,我是剛才有跟政治家所討論的,關於家裏的問題,我認為要多去協助一下,因為我認為不要發聲之後跟其他人這樣,因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13630.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13639.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
雖然主席說可能應用到4個月,但我說的這件事可能有用看用,不一定應用到2、3個月。所以在這裏我也願意去協商選政治對這個問題,因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13653.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13658.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13676.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13681.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13696.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13704.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13724.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13726.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13744.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13746.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
第三目的有離島鄉且該鄉人口在2500人以上者應有該鄉選出的縣議員名額 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13771.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13771.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
有離島 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13778.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13798.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
有離島鄉?對啊,離島其實就是綠島啊。那是離島鄉,那如果不是離島鄉呢?一般的鄉,一般的鄉呢?我說金門本身是離島,他沒有離島鄉啦,他就是離島鄉。那他如果有山地園居民有1500名以上,有1500位山園啦吼,那也會多一名,也會多一個,也會多一位議員啦吼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13802.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13806.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
案。三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案案案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13819.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13842.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
對,都是外加不會影響到區域的議員我們剛剛一直在提醒的是,那這樣子原來這個本來是因為原來最原始在上面有一個是19名那個以金門來講他有人數嘛議員的人數是多少人多少人人口在20萬以下不得超過19人那這個部分外加這個部分是要同步修正嗎還是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13843.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13850.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
因為如果像我們基本現在議員是19名嘛那如果有一天我們有3地議員就有1500人或平均也有那都不在你們區域的議員的這個名額裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13854.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13863.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13887.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13887.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13899.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13925.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
請問在場委員還有什麼意見?如果沒有意見的話,吳麗華委員謝謝主席我這邊先釐清一個部分因為那個版本其實文字我都沒有意見只要能夠送出那這邊請教一下那個高金主席就是在你的版本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13925.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13951.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13952.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13953.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
的縣有原住民人口。 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13970.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13997.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我只是要確認那個地方我把文字把它寫得更細一點那文字我就內政部的版本或高金委員的版本我都沒有內政部的版本只有我的版本謝謝吳俊華委員沒有他的建議的啦那我就不堅持完全按照我的文字但是我只是要表達我的修法效果就是兩個堅持第一個就是讓縣市及鄉鎮是 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14000.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14009.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
案。三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14022.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14045.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
那其實大家都表示意見了啦,那我們是不是就照高金委員,照為你的版本,然後我們就協商,因為大家好像有很多要協商,好不好?你是說這條還要協商嗎?還是這條我們就讓他就按照我的版本通過?按照你的版本通過啦。好,謝謝謝謝。我是建議是大家都很多意見是不是也要協商一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14047.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14047.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14063.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14083.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
我是說他們剛剛都有很多的問題那我講一下我的想法因為其實我也蠻認同高金委員的版本只是說因為就是部到現在都沒有任何的其實他們都還沒有發表意見然後也都沒有自己的版本我想說是不是就是我們這邊討論出一個共識然後還是送黨團協商這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14085.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14085.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14098.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14120.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
好,這樣子好了齁,我覺得我們就不要花在場大家的時間,我也沒有特別一定要去這個這個,因為其實事實上表決齁,如果貴黨團在裡面也沒意思,所以我今天就不用表決了齁,那既然民進黨的委員們有這個意見,我們就朝野協商好了好不好,就按照我的版本在朝野協商,這樣可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14126.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14129.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
按照高金委員提案通過但是交由朝野協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14132.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14134.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14157.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14158.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14174.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14192.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
請說明一下我剛剛漏掉一下因為我要確認一下因為我有處理那個鄉民代表的問題市民代表的問題那個有沒有版本還是不討論目前在我的條文裡面是沒有市民代表的鄉民代表市民代表沒有鄉民代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14196.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14198.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
我們請內政部來做一些說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14231.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14234.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
主席,抱歉,這條案我們無來心事, |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14239.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14245.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
每位委員提案委員自己的案子有沒有比較的在乎跟重視我們請國民黨團請賴士保委員如果在的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14265.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14292.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
我們現在先討論這個下一個第七條之四好不好我們針對委員陳玉珍等提案尊敬第七條之四我們來討論來我們請這個內政部還有相關單位是不是就說明一下我們請這個官員來說明一下好不好來請次長謝謝次長我們到那個位置上好了好不好謝謝謝謝你 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14299.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14319.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
好,我想針對那個陳醫生委員提案這個離島金門法的這一部分我們是認為說這個目前金門的暫地任務的限制已經解除了嘛,已經沒有再做限制所以現在金門這個地方,金馬這個地方的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14321.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14346.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這個地方自治的這些事項其實跟居民政治參與其實跟本島都一樣所以我們是真的沒有必要再去修地質法或是訂基本法這是第一個那第二個就是說我剛剛有特別有提到就是基本法我們現在大概有10部的基本法但是對都是對特別的身份特殊身份的這個保障所以我們訂了基本法而且基本法它是一個概念式的這個立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14347.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14369.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
你列這個基本法他還是要一定相關的執法來做那現在我們應該去檢視一下說離島建設條例到底有沒有辦法完全去照顧到這個離島這邊那如果假設不足的那是不是我們來修這個離島的建設條例但我們的立場是這樣子所以我們認為說現在沒有必要再去訂立一個基本法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14372.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14396.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
謝謝市長我想跟各位委員說明就是這個不是針對金門啦針對離島當然澎湖金門馬祖那其他離島包括比如說屏東也有一些離島或是琉球啊什麼這一類對相關的這個離島那現在大家知道像我們剛剛在省原住民也有基本法客委會啊什麼都很多都有基本法那我們現在就如果穿著衣服改衣服非常的辛苦就是您說的這個離島建設條例他大概都是注重在經濟發展方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14398.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14398.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
三、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14414.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14441.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
後面還是需要各個單位很多的協助有這個法案依據以後有一個這樣釋出有名以後接著我們金門各界其實不只金門金門、馬祖、澎湖各界事實上都有一個聯合會有提出說要這樣建立這樣的這個基本法的這個對離島居民的整體一個怎麼樣的一個這種權益的這個一個框架要定起來所以今天這只是給一個法案依據事實上也不會影響到內政部也不是說要多給什麼權力就給我們一個框架讓我們可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14442.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14456.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
在對離島的各項建設、不管是社會福利、衛生各方面有一個基準不是要他定法律不是要你現在去定一個法律定這個框架給你一個法源依據然後下去當然各個方面就是不足嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14470.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14492.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
是你還是要有配套的話沒錯沒錯所以這個訂了以後後續我們還會再推動很多相關離島的相關法這一定會的這是我後續還會再努力的雖然我也再提出來那一個基本的我想大家也很重視離島嘛在場的各位也不會對離島不重視嘛像原住民還有基本法一樣我們離島的請求也是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14494.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14517.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
所以我剛剛特別提到就是說現在基本法大家都針對深恨白來做這個立法嘛我知道我知道但是在憲法的保障裡頭我們離島居民跟原住民事實上應該要有同等維修我知道大家都很重視原住民我也非常的羨慕啊那離島的居民事實上也是希望至少只要求一部對於我們離島的這樣的法令的一個框架這個不是我個人提出來的這包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14518.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14544.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
三個縣市政府都有提出來,共同在我們的理導會議裡頭提出來的。你也知道,次長也知道,不管金門縣州、連江還有澎湖都有提出來。主席。主席。我們先請張宏祿委員,他有舉手,再來就是美會委員,謝謝。不好意思啦,那個張委,跟陳委員,你的說法我也很認同,很支持,可是我必須要跟各位委員報告一下, |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14545.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14559.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
你那個要我們要做我們不用修地制法我們就可以去做了離島條例或什麼也都可以做那我必須要在這邊跟陳委員報告一下我們不用這樣子啦你去提離島建筑或什麼我們大家來支持你這樣比較快 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14560.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14561.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14590.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14602.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員高金素梅等21人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、� |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14611.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14627.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
那個不好意思我再說一下我再一句話就好了陳委員你說的我真的都支持但我所有內政委員會的同仁我必須要說一下我們內政委員會我們修改任何條文其實外界也在檢視我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14629.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14654.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
那我們徵修這個雖然是弄一個框架但如果外界說這根本不需要增加在這個條文裡面那我們把它增加一下那我們外界對我們內政委員會在修法在什麼我們有沒有嚴謹有沒有真的做到這個我希望就是說我提出這個觀點那大家好考慮一下那我是完全支持你的我不是說不要我從別的法制直接做好我們請美會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14657.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14680.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
主席,剛才馮木說的大同小異,我的意思就是說,我們不用在地方制度法裡面,你去審查這裡,說實在,你的情緒、你的什麼,你去再整修會比這個還好啦,你是怎麼要堅持,再來,我一路次長,我要請教說, |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14682.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14688.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員高金素梅等21人擬具〈地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14709.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14729.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
他還是有配到的法令那現在好假設我們現在沒有基本法我們有建設這個條例你按照建設條例去修你如果覺得建設條例照顧不足的那我們去修這個不是就好了嗎你需要弄一個框架在那裡嗎像您剛說現在的什麼基本法都只有按照什麼身分別原住民基本法客家委員這個客委會這個這不是事實那政府為了表示對文化的重視訂了文化基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14735.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14757.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
對社會福利重視定了社會福利基本法、客家基本法是身份、科學技術基本法、原住民基本法是身份、海洋基本法、教育基本法、通訊傳播基本法。這是一個代表你對這個議題有沒有重視嗎?那我想離島的居民雖然是人數比較少的確可能也比原住民少一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14759.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14783.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
也要支持所以所以嘴巴上說製作行動上我們在立法上也要支持啊好好謝謝我們請問一下還有沒有其他的委員要發言來環節委員不好意思剛沒看到我兩個小意見啦就是說我在想說這個離島基本法其實他們目前具體施行的內容是不是在離島建設條例就可以處理那有沒有目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14783.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14808.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
李導建設條例不足或者是沒有辦法處理的這個可以的話大家再討論一下嘛就是說如果到底哪裡不足我們需要一個法院去授權讓他開啟這個工具的大門那我覺得就有必要修這個是要討論的再來就是說如果要訂的話是不是要邀請李導的議員也都來發表一下意見阿對阿我覺得要的話就是送協商然後請其他李導的議員大家都一起來討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14810.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14836.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
好,我們請劉學廷委員就說離島的委員也都應該要來發表一下這個,其實哦,裕貞委員提這個法案他當然用意當然就希望離島建設權益可以再升級啦那如果離島基本法它如果修正上面有積極意義的時候行政院趕快提出相關的版本其實才是正本清源之道嘛好,那既然今天大家在這邊爭論不休我們是不是就先送協商那你行政院趕快提版本進來的時候這個地方這一段我們就不處理了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14840.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14847.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
相對來講也不用動到地制法修正我覺得這樣才是解決事情的方法所以我覺得我們今天就把它送協商啦然後這樣也不耽誤大家會議時間以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14849.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14872.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
好,我們請喬輝委員。呃,牛委員的意見乍聽之下,我覺得蠻有道理,就是一個催促有基本法這樣的概念,要不要有嗎?好,可是,這個,他還是要回到原始的問題啊,就是在地方制度法裡面加一條說要訂一個離島基本法,這件事情到底合不合理?在地方制度法當中放一個這樣的條文說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14874.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14876.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
定另外一個基本法。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14894.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14919.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
那要不要有基本法當然可以討論要增加我也好啊增加也很好但我還是覺得在地方制度法加這條不太對勁啊所以我覺得這是兩件事情大家都口頭上說支持但我們要的是長治久安的制度比如說今天是這個委員當了或是明天是這個委員比如說我們蘇小慧委員特別支持金門特別跟我們支持那我要建立的是制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14920.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14921.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14940.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14940.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14962.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14986.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
那你在地方制度法裡面在中間我們是給他一個條來說我要有一個離島的基本法我們是給一個法源依據啊剛剛像那個劉雪茵委員說的那內政部門就趕快提出來內政部都一直不提出來啊我們要趕快推出他前進啊你要不要考慮一下用其他的方法來推出他我可以支持用什麼方法來推出他好我們休息五分鐘以下來來來我們休息五分鐘來 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14989.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14999.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15013.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15021.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15038.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15045.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
不需要行政院的版本,你如果提的話,我們在司法或在內政在幫你排版 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15057.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15069.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
原住民的學校法就是一樣這樣,原住民從來沒有版本過,但是我們提了版本之後,只要在委員會裡面被判案就要逼著他們出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15084.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15099.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15101.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15102.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
當初你們都同意過了勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15126.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15153.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
現在重提而已捏,提過了捏,這案子提過了,這上次都送到委會了,送出了,不要啊,這要等到民國期啊,第七屆都有過,第十屆,那個第十,第十屆,上一陣子已經解,第十屆你也在這個內政會,在內政會,這個都送出去委會,不是沒送出去過啊,這個委會都,有啦,有啦,第十 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15156.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15178.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
第十屆第七會期送出去委員會在草野協商沒有排到而已啊。你自己,我不知道你是不是沒有牌照,那第七會期啦。議長,我剛剛已經幫你們試圖協商了齁,那如果是你還是有意見的話,就草野他們說要表決啦。表決你們是什麼?我不要表決啊,就送出去啊。可是召委的意思是說,大家直接都有限嗎?有啦!阿脈啦,第七屆就都接罷了啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15184.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15194.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15204.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15217.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15220.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15247.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15249.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15264.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15265.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15281.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案件。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15286.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15310.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
現在已經是12點46分了因為我想說在這邊我們就不要再讓大家在這邊爭執這個部分我們請內政部這個次長您來回應一下因為就剛剛幾個委員一直這個試圖來協調協商這個部分因為基本法是高於這個地制法所以是不是您來表態一下好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15312.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15335.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
報告各位我們的態度就認為說現在從離島建設條例去著手來修訂如果不足就修訂這個特別這個建設條例就OK了沒有必要說馬上去訂這個基本法但是如果委員你們的決議任何需要訂的我們尊重我們沒有我們尊重你們的意見但是我們的立場我們要表達就是因為你們覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15336.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15337.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15349.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15376.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
對,就是一樣,我沒有改變我沒有改變我沒有改變我就是原文再提一次而已這是上次有討論過的送出去過的上個會期的那時候我也在內政啦我也在內政兩年嘛所以這個那時候我們有送出去所以並不是沒有送出去過委員會啊不知道為什麼新的會期大家當然有一些想法但舊的很多委員都還是原來的委員啊張委員、吳委員跟王委員都還是原來的委員啊我們還是在內政委會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15377.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15405.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
就是你們這個會期改變的想法但是上個會期第七會期的確有在內政會就送出去在草野協商的時候因為屆期不連續所以我才重提出來那上個會期都可以送出去這個會期有什麼也沒什麼重大的情勢變更而且所有的這個離島縣市政府你們也可以去問一下離島的縣市政府你們因為你們有執政縣市叫做澎湖縣澎湖縣是貴黨執政的你們也去問一下澎湖是不是支持你們去問一下澎湖縣政府這個澎湖縣政府也是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15408.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15416.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
這又是我提的所以你們去問一下澎湖縣政府支不支持嗎陳光復你們問他支不支持這不是只有我支持的案子不分黨派的 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15417.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15419.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
彭茂是民進黨執政也是支持啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15440.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15446.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
我們這個案子不是沒有審過嗎?等一下我覺得在這種狀況下尤其陳委員已經做這樣的發言那這樣的表決我覺得相當的不合我們的意志因為我都可以意見我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15466.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15491.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
全益支持離島的全益。但剛剛也表示了基於法制的想法觀念的表達我們認為在地方制度法的這一個條文成為另訂其他基本法法源這個在法制上面有焊隔之處所以我表達我的想法這是法制上面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15492.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15492.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15510.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15513.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15535.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15555.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
如果法務部相關單位表示在地方制度法的這第七條可以作為陳委員版本成為其他基本法的法人沒有意見那本席有可以支持因為重視領導權益一向是我的主張所以重視法務部非常謝謝我們周圍按一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15560.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15560.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15577.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15578.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
案。二、審查委員陈玉珍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15600.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15604.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
事由：立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員高金素梅等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15616.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15633.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
我們在一點以前要處理這個案子法務部這個官員回答結束之後我們就休息兩分鐘然後我們討論一下好不好謝謝請法務部的代表來做說明請你到台上來好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15647.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15673.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
主席各位委員好那就這個條文來看我們那個地制法它的授權依據是說憲法118條還有憲法徵修條文第9條那我們憲法第118條它是說直轄式的自治事項用法律定制那我們118條也說是自治條例的這些不受這些的規定這個各個委員應該都非常清楚那我們現在地制法要解決問題如同剛剛委員提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15675.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15703.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
我們很多基本法比如說剛剛提到原住民族基本法文化基本法、客家基本法它本身都是直接訂定它也沒有用一個特別的法律來授權那委員如果說要訂一個基本法的話畢竟這個都是看行政機關的權責或是委員的權責你自己可以提出法案來做討論所以這個都沒有問題的只是說是不是在地制法案一個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15704.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15726.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
你有沒有看我提的法案的第二項?我是有看到您...第二項寫什麼?看一下第二項,念一下第二項你可不可以先法務部的意見先表述完整,然後回答陳玉珍?對,對,他表述了,我請問他有沒有看到第二項?等一下啦,先讓他都說完了啦,好不好?剛好主席說嘛,所以就主席寫了 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15727.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15749.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
委員長剛剛我們內政部的長官有提到說現在有一個離島建設條例那到底離島建設條例裡面的條文真的有不足的地方我們剛剛的長官也提到說離島建設條例他可以提出來做修正那是不是如同剛剛也提到如果弄一個基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15749.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15774.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
他只是一個大的概念那如果真正的要落實執行還是要各個法律譬如說離島建設條例或是其他的法規來配合那現在呢基本法要不要定跟離島建設其實可以雙軌啦那到底在地制法裡面可不可以訂定這個條文我也不能說對或不對因為我們憲法裡面的規我們的地制法第一條的依據的這麼樣的明顯但是你說在這裡落一個其他的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15780.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15803.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
我來說一下對不起我們剛剛請關我主席剛剛有說了我們一點以前我們要處理這個案子您剛剛好像說的這個又模模糊糊的這樣子好了因為今天我們花很多時間在這個討論上面這個議案的討論上面包括賴士葆委員都是第七條能不能這樣子主席做一下的才是就是討論事項第一第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15804.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15825.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
然後我們並按審查完均擬具審查報告提報院會討論請問在場委員可以有沒有意見吧沒有意見地方制度法第33條的條文修正草案以並按審查完均然後擬具審查報告提報院會討論請在場委員我們是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15832.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15854.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
須經黨團協商,由本席高金素梅做補充說明,然後討論事項第三、第四案我們所列的議案,也就是賴士葆委員的地方制度法第七條之一條文的修正草案,以及陳玉珍委員等18人擬具地方制度法增訂第七條、第四條文的草案,我們另外議案並且審查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15857.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15863.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
主席賴士葆沒有來我有來耶賴士葆沒有來我有來因為你們都是第七條好不好我們謝謝議程處的外備我們現在散會謝謝議政會議員我們花很多時間在討論你們問題好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15880.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15906.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
議爭委員我們沒有不支持你這樣子第一次你這樣子你這樣子議爭委員我不接受你這樣的指控您剛剛說你沒有申報書讓我先處理第三十三條我也同意你然後我說我們的定期例外審查我們定期例外審查我們並沒有不審查你的案子我另外再談好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15907.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15933.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
我們略外在談案,我沒有說不處理你的案子。在我略外審查的同時,麻煩你再去跟我們內政部還有你們的黨團還有民進黨的委員們來討論,好嗎?謝謝,謝謝,謝謝。你們其他委員也有不同的意見啦,不好意思,郁正委員。所以我就說你們繼續討論我另案審查,請你不要誤會,請你不要亂指控張偉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15934.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15943.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15956.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15970.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
我要立案審查,謝謝。在立案審查的同時希望民進黨團、內政部還有國發會還有國民黨團能夠充分的在討論好不好,謝謝。做一套做一套啊,我也贊成表決啊。他們表決,如果他們贏就贏嘛,沒關係啊。不能說做一套做一套啊。原罪名案子我從來沒有反對過,一向都很支持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15996.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16001.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |