| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/92fdadfc0332711c03dc9c74b06cf693b05e405f736a88db82411c1dea8c2d76cbfbb2dae5f8c4225ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
廖先翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:58:50 - 15:14:20 |
| 影片長度 |
930 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第13次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「勞動部前部長何佩珊及勞動力發展署北分署前分署長謝宜容應受嚴厲之譴責，並移送監察院及檢調單位，如情節重大者將撤職查辦，永不再任公職。」是否有當？請公決案等25案。（12月13日）二、同意權之行使事項：總統咨，依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗玲、黃東益、伊萬•納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。（12月17日上午）三、審計長列席報告中華民國112年度中央政府總決算審核報告案審核經過並備諮詢。（12月17日下午）） |
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好 謝謝院長 也要麻煩邀請我們陳機長麻煩陳省機長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.005 |
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廖委員好沈機長好這個延續剛剛中委員的議題因為救安基金應該是國人最近非常關心的一個政府預算質詢的一個相當大的一個社會議題大家非常的關心那除了先前可能大家有提到的演唱會的問題啊辦公室優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.069 |
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62.763 |
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等等的問題之外昨天在民眾黨有黨民眾黨也有召開相關的記者會也有提出一些其他相關的問題比如說媒體採購的限制性的招標問題或者是說他們的拍影片以及他的成效的問題那以及這個可能一些紀念品等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
63.223 |
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89.671 |
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那剛剛這個沈縣長說相關的救安基金的專案報告之前提一個院內會提出來嘛那譬如說以個人演唱會這件事情來講應該是2022年的時候的事情那我們在那件事情發生之後有沒有我們有沒有我們這個省基部有沒有提出任何的相關的報告或檢討針對救安基金的缺失提出相關的一些糾正有在新聞爆發之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
109.347 |
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第一個他連續3年啦虧了差不多200億要勞動部啊要去好好檢討第二個我們收回啊為何他救安基金用的收回他差不多沒有符合規定的租出3億多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
110.368 |
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126.89 |
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第三個他在補助一些社會團體社會單位差不多100多家但是我們查這100多家長年連續三年都違反勞動法令要他要勞動部好好檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
127.911 |
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150.346 |
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大概我們都會就這些包括他的收支並結算我們都會提出來好所以針對就葉安丁基金長期來可能對我們省基部來說也算是長期的一個黑名單了啦應該是我們都會注意他會注意他特別他注意他的就這個使用的狀況有沒有符合我們的法令那按照我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.079 |
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180.569 |
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法定規定我們如果說在我們的預算使用上面依照我們審計法第21條如果說有各機關違背預算或者是有關法定的不當支出我們可以事後剔除追繳之那想請問一下那我們就是針對救安基金比如說剛剛大家最關心的開個人演唱會或者是辦公室裝潢的這個部分我們後續會不會提出這個剔除以及追繳 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
181.798 |
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209.178 |
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八位委員我們所謂因為這個大家全國人民關心我們已經派我們的同仁去查核是初步發現為符合基金用途的有將近五千多億五千多萬五千多萬抱歉五千多萬這五千多萬我們大概會收回會幫忙收回像這個和採購異常的或者這個我們會移送檢調 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
217.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
像未竟執著的我們會移送監察案那剛剛上面講的這些都是有包含剔除跟追繳嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
219.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
大部分都收回的地方就是如果他有一些很明確的違背法令我們就會追繳或剔除追繳那這個追繳的對象是因為要回去看這個責任我們會請勞動部去這個問題給他他會給我們回覆會順路當然大家最關心追繳的對象是誰你是跟機關追繳還是跟違法運用經費的這個當時的這個公職人員來追繳 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
249.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
249.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為這個是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
252.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
281.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這兩個都可能要看你們後續的調查採購人員因為這個為什麼要做這樣的採購呢我們可能他涉及違法那他就要盡到檢調比如說許前部長他不會是採購人員嗎他不會是第一線採購人員嗎對那如果是他那個沙龍罩那這個可能就我們可能就會請他那個單位我們會請他收回他就怎麼收回我們會瞭解他是不是向個人收回 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
281.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
303.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好 所以說在之後的一個﹐你們講的一個月的時間的報告提出報告的時候我可不可以拜託沈記長是否針對這一些你們認為有違法違規或是不當使用的一些經費你們評估一下哪些經費你們認為應該要踢除追繳哪一些不用那並把你們認為要不要的理由續名這可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
304.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
331.96 |
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可以 就到時候在報告裡面都可以看得一清二楚我們審計部的立場另外一點我先謝謝審計長那另外一點就是因為基金喔特別好用啦所以很多單位都喜歡用那我們就業安定基金他有沒有哪一項他的特別的可能業務啊或是等等他的功能有沒有什麼東西是本預算沒有辦法可能就是勞動部這個機關本預算沒有辦法來這個達成他的目標任務的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
354.786 |
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我們的收入大概就是這個移工的移工的收入嘛對不對移工的這個雇主繳的錢那支出當然就是這是穩定我們的就業那這些預算用在基金邊跟本預算邊他如果說要把這些基金預算挪回來本預算的話有沒有自愛難行的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
382.425 |
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就是預算編列的問題應該是沒有就是說救安基金他是有專用專款專用的一個性質他要用到那個法就業服務法裡面注定的促進國民就業提供勞工扶植這一方面他一定要用到他沒有用到這方面就是要在他的公務預算裡面編列不能在這裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
410.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
來編（來租用所以就是因為剛剛沈記長有跟大家說明救安基金這幾年操置並決算的情況非常嚴重這就是基金的好處大家都要用基金我可以操置我到時候再並決算就好了那照剛剛沈記長講的既然他的問題這麼嚴重前科雷雷那他又沒有那個絕對存在不可替代的必要的話那沈記長你認為救安基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
412.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
438.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果說我們來提倡把他廢除的話您有沒有怎麼樣的個人意見把就業安定基金廢除回到勞動部的本預算去執行他的所有預算的收支就業安定基金是可以檢討廢除可能知識體大因為他已經行之三十幾年了所以有他的可是剛剛沈記長說他的所有的支出都應該都是可以編在本預算內啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
464.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
然後他的撤職並決算的情況又這麼嚴重不受監督早年財政困難的時候有時候真的有一個專款專用對促進國民就業就提供勞工扶植會相當重要所以這個要慎重好沒關係那這一部分可不可以一併納入我們省機部的一個專案報告裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
465.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
好就是針對就位基金他存在的必要性如果說你們認為他有存在的必要的話那你就序明清楚讓大家知道你們的專業獨立的意見好謝謝好謝謝沈機長那另外一點就是我們立法院的預算中心定期也都會提供我們一些他們的審查的一些情況那我們的立法院預算中心提出提出幾個意見也有些意見就是針對中央政府的整體媒體宣傳費用的規模的增長那 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
515.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
一部分是金額的提高一部分是有許多的部分機關就是他可能他把這個媒體的相關的費用閃編在公務或是非基金的非營業基金或是特別預算當中那沈記長您認為同樣一個可能他是同樣的一個主管同樣一個可以運用這些資金的人他把這些媒體的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
517.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
523.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
廣告的宣傳費用．拆散到不同的單位．部長．這個沈機長．您認為這樣是事宜的做法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
550.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個政慾先導經會我們專案查了三年三年都專案調查我們也提出了非常多的意見給行政院參考後來他也訂立了專項但是他有的是說他會放在婚姻樂園裡面也有公務也有所以但是我們在查核的時候我們會把這幾個一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
552.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
554.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
是否有規避監督的想法? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
575.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
599.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如果說我們過去都有在做一些專案在跟行政院來溝通的話代表說沈記長應該也是認為相關的媒體宣傳費用不只是媒體宣傳費用啦應該是相關的費用如果說能夠集中一個這個主管機關來編列的話對於我們事後的稽查或者是他的公開透明來講的話應該都是有正面的幫助委員這個意見很好但是行政部門啊他有他的考慮也有他的相當困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
600.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
614.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是,好,沒關係,那至少是省紀長是認同這樣子的意見那行政機關他們有如果說不這樣做的話他們應該要續名理由為什麼他們要這樣子做好,沒有問題,好謝謝,好謝謝省紀長那第三個,第三個我們來討論一下這個採購的一些這個問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
631.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那這個採購的問題如果說有一個機關他針對類似的品項招商招標有高度集中化的一個現象那您認為會有一些哪些的後遺症高 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
633.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
654.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
高度集中化集中到某一個產家這個我們會注意要他多次都集中這個產家我們就會列為高度風險我們會專案查核我們先不要預測說這家廠商或者是採購過程中有沒有非法的部分我們不要預測他這樣子的一個現象對我們國家採購有沒有不良的一個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
655.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
682.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
一般大家公務機關如果他是優良的他可以幫忙這個機關我們大概就這個是因為他是有時候找他可以把他的整個建築各方面的採購做得很好也有他這個工程會也有鼓勵用這樣的一個方法但是我們目前我們對於這些採購一點差不多有 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
685.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
702.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
有19萬件差不多有兩兆億元的採購我想跟審議長報告的是高度集中化會有依賴性過強的問題依賴性過強的問題不利於市場的公平競爭那你跟在廠方的這個談判或議約、議價之間你的主動權會相對的比這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
707.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
720.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個這個充分競爭的一個市場來的第一嘛對不對是那所以說正在我們採購立場上我今天要提的是我們的國防預算我們這幾年其實在早年我們中華民國的國防的採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
721.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
740.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
並沒有說這個專門要就是專門都向哪一個國家採購比如說我們過去常跟美國採購也會跟法國採購無論是我們的幻象戰機或者是我們的可能拉法葉艦雖然說它過程發生一些弊案但是我們原來這樣它的分散有分散的好處但是近年來我們中華民國呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
741.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
764.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
軍備的採購長期的集中在美國這一個單一的國家那產生的長期的依賴性他就會產生了一些的後遺症產生後遺症比如說我們媒體常常報道說美軍相關的軍備採購案他常常會有延宕交貨的一塊的情形這部分應該我們審計部也都有在對國防部的時候也都會有集合到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
764.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
789.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
有,像這個大概我們現在集合到的差不多有兩千多有兩千八百多億的備存帳在美國也有一千五百多億的那個延後交貨甚至是他可能是簽約了之後再預約也有可能預約之後他就不算在這裡面了 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
793.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
813.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這樣子的一個情形就會對於我們的充值我們的國防他絕對是一個潛在的一個因子我們今天花了那麼多錢他的東西沒有辦法如時如約的如期的來交貨就會對我們的國防產生了一個可能產生了一些漏洞那針對這個部分我不曉得國防部針對他們的機密預算我們審計部也有辦法集合到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
814.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
826.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
都有都可以集合到大概經過案是高度的軍事和政治的一個因素還是有國家上位的政策還要考慮到國家整個國家安全各方面的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
833.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
857.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但是就是可能近年包括我們國防部﹐給我們立法院的一個報告﹐包括我們的高效能反專甲飛彈﹐F16的一些性能提升﹐還有我們新式戰機的採購﹐在他們可能換約了之後還是有延宕的情形﹐那就可能會﹐他的更早的一個起因﹐可能是因為我們國軍長期以來依賴美軍﹐他認為我們只有單一的窗口﹐我們不會去跟英國﹐我們不會去跟法國﹐我們不會去跟其他國家來進行軍購﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
858.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以他可能在跟我們的談判上面他會比較強勢甚至美國他們對於這個海外軍售的制度是只要在發架書的最後年度前交貨就是可能會有這個階段性嘛他們不管階段性他們只管最後的這個年度前交貨就不算延遲那這樣子的一個合約的簽訂您認為是適當的嗎我們有請國防部檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
885.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
900.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
國防部檢討以後對於不管是任何國家只要有相關的軍備的採購案當初合約怎麼訂沒有特殊的原因那就必須要如期如約的來交貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
901.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
924.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那他們有相關的一些違約機制嗎?我們政府任何政府機關採購都會有違約的懲罰金啊那軍公案會有嗎?軍公案他在訂的時候是沒有我們目前沒有看也要求他我們在查核的時候發現這種現象所以我們也有要求國防部應該要有這樣的一個機制要去能夠對這一方面做一個要求那就麻煩我們審計部繼續針對上述的問題來提出一些建議給我們 |
| IVOD_ID |
158193 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158193 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-2-13 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第13次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-17T14:58:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-17T15:14:20+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |