| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f7e4b646118ff6a15f1b4aa0f0f5f22fc691fc1ddc136966ddbfeaa1773dd92f55ea099cd124814b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
廖偉翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:58:54 - 12:17:56 |
| 影片長度 |
1142 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、邀請衛生福利部部長、考試院、行政院人事行政總處針對「所屬機關有關霸凌事件之調查檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【業務報告及專題報告綜合詢答】） |
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謝謝主席。有請邱部長。 |
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24.265 |
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部長你好今天題目準備比較多我想要先問一下再生醫療雙法在上個會期的6月19號公佈通過那在條文的最後有說相關的規定施行細則跟施行日期由衛福部與行政院定之喔那差幾天就滿半年了為何到現在還不公佈細則跟日期 |
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45.551 |
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報告委員,這兩個一個是再生醫療法一個是再生醫療自治法那再生醫療法由144在處理那因為牽涉到蠻多的內容部長請問那什麼時候可以九個子辦法現在已經陸續完成草案預計在114年第一季進行法規預告作業114年第一季是不是?好像114年可以齁?好,因為之前我看到有媒體也報導你的態度好像沒有太支持啊 |
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75.121 |
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希望不要因為這樣子拖延到我非常支持但是我必須要支持一個一個獨國立民的再生立法所以你們就是第一季第一季明年的第一季會出來第一季會預告預告好那到時候請到時候再跟你報告再跟你報告好不好那再來有關於霸凌案最新的調查報告 |
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今天的專案報告內容中說霸凌案訪談了96名員工請問都是訪問在職的嗎?如果有訪問已經離職或是已經請掉外單位的員工應該不會只有96位吧?好 那是不是請理事長非常感謝廖委員對於我們這個問題的一個垂詢我跟委員報告我們這個部分除了我們現職的員工同仁之外其實也有已經已離職的員工 |
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126.639 |
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134.245 |
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大概是幾個?有找到幾個移職員工?具體的案例,我是不是有請人事處長來跟您做一個說明?謝謝。跟委員報告,我們這邊不方便去透露離職員工幾個個案,因為這個很容易被識別化。但是當初第一波網路問卷的時候,離職員工如果 |
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網路問卷依照每個人他服務的單位不同只要他是現任跟前任的我就問說大概你們發出了幾份回收幾份 |
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198.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們大概總總統因為有8個案子不太近相同回收率是25%所以你8案只訪談了大概96位那平均一案大概是12位那劉祖密叫下屬去自殺那剛剛我們陳昭之委員已經說也有即興員工已經自殺然後你們不認為這是霸凌那我覺得這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
216.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
是不是對往生者不禁又覺得在家屬的傷口上傻眼?你們真的覺得這是用心高規格嗎?你們真的有查清楚嗎?報告委員我們對於調查要務重但是也要務往那第一點第二點我們這個就是說那位同仁他的整個他的那個舊衣102年 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
219.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我問一下,那我另外進一步問另外叫人家深蹲 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
250.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
做福利挺身甚至這次根本就已經上升到體罰的層次那怎麼可能不是霸凌呢?如果不是旁邊有人把它錄下來不然你被強迫深蹲跟福利挺身的時候你有辦法錄影自保、蒐證自保嗎?這個報告是不是要重啓重寫? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
報告委員我做兩點說明第一個就是有關於福利及衛生我之前已經說是在2022年12月那剛好有一位新進同仁進來然後他做就是他跟大家自我介紹的時候說他會健身然後呢師長他說那你的福利及衛生很強喔那另外還有一位替代役他也說他們平常在做所以你一直說他說他很強他就叫他來做福利及衛生給大家看那這樣算不算 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
286.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這樣不算霸凌嗎?他如果說我有一個員工說深蹲很強,那我問你啊,我助理剛剛也跟我說他蠻會深蹲的,他說我現在叫他深蹲放PowerPoint,你覺得這樣算不算霸凌?是不是也是利益良善? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
297.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
315.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
按照我們過去的一個整個這個法院的一個對於這一個部分的那個判決其實對於所謂霸凌他就是要構成敵意環境而且是持續性的那我必須要說這個住信司長他這個行為他這個管理行為我認為我也覺得這個實在是很不當啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
316.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
323.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
對,你都已經覺得不當了,那這怎麼可能不是霸凌?但是並沒有構成,我們必須要尊重學者專家他們的整個組織調查。今天我請我的助理說,我覺得你邊深蹲邊放簡報你會瘦,他就也不好意思拒絕我,然後他就開始深蹲放簡報,我這樣會不會算霸凌? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
339.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
342.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
市長你剛剛都已經說你也覺得不太妥了啊我是說就整個管理行為上面來說這一個我是覺得應該要所以我們也因為這樣市長我跟你說你也知道上次這個何佩珊部長在這裡他一樣的調查報告弄出來之後你覺得大家會不會覺得很荒謬就是說深蹲、伏地挺身都不算是霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
365.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
380.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我覺得我說真的啊聽到你們這樣的報告我想很多公務人員都會很緊張吧甚至我們的助理也很緊張吧如果今天一時興起他有一天說他剛去健身回來非常的非常的壯我就說那你做福利起身給大家看那大家會不會覺得很荒謬 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
383.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
市長因為我想這個很多人在檢舉我想就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
412.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
426.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你們在報告之外真的沒有辦法讓大家很幸福你們是不是應該要再回去再去深究一下到底是不是有問題啊這看起來是很荒謬很離譜的事情喔那另外現在不只是這個霸凌案啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
439.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
連臺大醫院也傳出臺大知名不孕症權威我們就這裡叫代號C教授好了被6名住院醫生研究醫生申訴性騷擾性騷擾案經過性評調查後確認有性騷擾的事實請問部長這個事情你有瞭解嗎?我有媒體來報導來瞭解部長你認識這個C教授嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
455.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
456.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你知道這個人嗎?你認不認識這個人? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
475.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
494.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為在不...因為不同的科而且距離算是...所以你認識嗎?你知道嗎?全部台大的人我大概都認識啊。哦所以你就認識嘛對不對?你就認識這位C教授嘛對不對?你認識這位C教授那你原本有掌握到這件事嗎?我不知道。你完全不知道? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
495.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
521.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那你在這件事裡面可以有什麼角色?我們按規定按依法辦理啊依法辦理怎麼辦理?我問你C教授他搶先申請退休打算保住退休金自請離職喔然後讓我想到這其實就跟我們當初勞動部霸凌情深案件謝宜榮前分署長一樣他想要在召開考機會之前自行請辭以免被免職或撤職 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
522.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
548.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後當時這個部長也是站在何沛山部長也是站在質詢台上說毫不知情喔那我想要請問一下這個C教授也同樣想要搶先申請退休的狀況您剛剛說依法辦理那依照你們的法這個這個規章要怎麼處理才能夠避免這個首先就是由僱主用僱主他可以依照他的行為去用針對聖平三法的規定去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
549.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
555.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
部長,你不覺得這事情其實很誇張嗎?一個婦產科的權威性騷他的女醫生,那他過去看過這麼多的女病患,發生這個事情,然後你認識這個人,你覺得可以怎麼處理更好? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
571.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
594.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我覺得依法辦理就最好。我們的性平三法過去在立法院也在上一屆很努力的工作。好部長我跟你說其實這件事情還有最後後面還有一個很嚴重的部分是也根據媒體報導這個C教授竟然敢找總統府的資政求救並試圖施壓台大那不只拒絕悔過還找高層人士來幫腔來押案來吃案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
595.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
606.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那這也不是空穴來風喔這個我想就在C教授9月自請離職後他竟然轉往另外一個由總統府執政開設的醫院任職喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
623.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你知道這個事嗎?部長?從媒體上面有看到你從媒體上面知道那這個事情走漏風聲之後呢這個該醫院也偷偷的將這個C教授的照片和資料徹下看起來就是心虛或是確有歧視欲蓋彌彰的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
625.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
653.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那這次事件如果不是有什麼政壇大佬的媳婦啊或是臺大另外的婦產科的權威的媳婦啊企業家二代或是一些相對有一定政經地位的人都成為受害者喔加上臺大的這個校長陳文章能夠秉持他的專業良心拒絕關說我想這事也不了了之啊部長我覺得我們不應該每次都依賴這個運氣吧那我也想請問你知不知道這位總統府執政是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
654.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
678.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這位要幫他關說總統府執政是誰因為媒體沒有寫名字所以我不去猜測你不去猜測那你知不知道是誰媒體寫的是誰媒體寫的我我就說我不用不去猜測我是看他的行為對不對這樣子那我們想要知道這個總統府執政的話到底有沒有關說施壓這個調查我們應該怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
682.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
685.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這要由總統府來調查嗎?還是你們可以啟動調查?這個可能要從台灣大學那邊去了解他整個調查的過程當中所以會變成是教育部的責任嗎?會變成是教育部要叫台大去把它調查清楚嗎?還是衛福部可以有角色? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
707.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
723.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們當然非常關心只要所有的工作醫療界的醫師醫藉福利界所有的工作同仁的尊嚴安全都跟我們當然都是我們關心的部長我想另外就進一步追問一下有一定的規範嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
724.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
745.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你知道他轉到另外一個婦產科的時候那個婦產科後來可能發現這個問題他就說他已經不讓這個醫師做內診了啦已經不讓這個醫師做內診那我想就是您是醫界的大佬也非常有經驗我想請問一下婦產科醫師不接觸內診的比例或是他不碰內診的比例可以有多高他比較屬這個專家在下面吧那我再問你對專家在下面那我再問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
758.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
764.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
對,國監署長,那你可以回答一下嗎?一個婦產科醫師...那我在進一步追問你今天他婦產科醫師有人來可能看到這個人的名字來看醫生那他不做內診換另外一個醫生幫他做內診出了醫療行為出了問題那誰要負責? |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
784.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
808.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個做檢查的就會檢查的一個報告嘛比如說我們做超音波檢查就超音波檢查的人報告以及他部長反正整件事情就是很荒謬啊我想要問你的事情是這件事情如果不是就這樣不了了之喔我想未來大家可能都要碰運氣喔看誰可以把這件事情爆出來所以我想要問你這個要怎麼樣在制度上做改善和預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
810.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
810.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
831.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
860.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
如果台大醫院這個案例很簡單按照那個大院剛通過的性騷三法如果說是那個在台大醫院那邊如果說有任何一方是學生的話那就教育部那如果說其他的話那就性工法性工法那就勞動部啊所以衛福部都不管你們的事報告委那衛福部這邊我們現在目前就是有關於性騷三法三法裡面來如果不屬於性平不屬於校園不屬於職場就是我們主管的性騷防止法 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
861.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
889.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以他現在的狀況會是你們主管的嗎目前看起來如果說他對象是一般的病患有可能就是嘛對不對那你們現在可以做什麼他就進到申訴申訴調查署之後就會到縣市應該是臺北市政府的社會局他會做審議審議確定之後他就會做行政處罰那另外他的行為如果構成性騷25條就會進到司法調查我希望你們深入調查喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
890.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
918.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這中間可能不只這六位是受害者這六位受害者他報出來只是真的是比較有辦法影響到大家關注度的我希望你們針對這個醫師好好的調查而且如果你說這個受害者這過程有碰到一般的病患但是又碰到有人施壓我也希望你們在施壓的那個人好好的調查有沒有這個狀況總統府執政到底是誰請你們給社會一個交代誰哪一個總統府執政這麼囂張 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
920.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
926.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
自己的人跑去這個性騷擾他還可以打電話想要押案、吃案太扯了吧然後聘用一個性騷擾的這個婦產科醫師然後跟他說我不讓他看內診很荒謬我們一定依法辦理好另外部長目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
943.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
959.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
醫美合法的管道有麻醉氾濫跟管制的問題非法的地下醫美問題也是很嚴重橋頭地檢署10月偵辦出高雄商辦內隱藏流動的地下醫美很多的藥品跟醫材都是大陸輸入的仿冒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
960.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
982.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
其實也顯示這一段時間地下醫美在臺灣也逐步形成了產業鏈其實根據從醫界的側面瞭解地下醫美市場可能佔整個醫美市場近61%數字讓人震驚那也就是說這些無照服務等等的問題那簡單來講就是部長這個部分要怎麼加強管制避免很多的病患可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
984.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1009.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
跑去這些地方用到這些不合法的東西導致他們的權益受損。好,謝謝委員的擔心。如果以這樣的報導我們是不是令人憂心?那這也是有虧了我們十幾年來從我們蘇昭偉、我擔任醫師公會領導者的時候跟醫術師一直在對醫美方面做管理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1009.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1021.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
不管是,讓他們有一個規則,不然他們也是做到很沒尊嚴的,我們老實說啦。做到我怎麼很可憐,因為他們都醫師有時候...所以沒有,部長,因為時間有限,我還有很重要的要問你,所以你要怎麼做? |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1022.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1049.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們就...好,如果有違法的當然就要去查緝啊可是看起來你們執行很差欸我在下面再舉一個例子喔部長電子煙氾濫我們在過去很常常就是在質詢這件事情看起來衛福部沒有什麼管制的能力欸網路上隨便一搜就很多網站在那邊販售電子煙然後有六行民眾收集了300個違法的販售網站的名單希望你們去封禁 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1050.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1076.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個部分部長知道嗎?部長就是沒有啊你可能不了解處理狀況喔確實有民眾向Google檢舉但最終的結果就是你只要在Google台灣分站的搜尋上面搜尋電子煙下方會有警語喔但它警語完之後它連接到這300家的名單網頁而且這些網站目前都還沒有被停止解析所以都連得上 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1076.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1081.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那你知道這就是因為你們不積極處理本來是禁止名單現在變成購買推薦清單欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1085.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1109.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
非常謝謝委員的關心那為這個我們現在有跨部位的平台那其實我們也非常謝謝這個網路平台那我們有親國溝通所以做一層二層三層的一個屏蔽跟移除但看起來現在就是沒有啊而且他們還發展成LINE客服很多都是重複的ID喔不同的網站同一個LINE客服喔代表它已經是集團化的經營那你們要怎麼做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1110.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1110.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們建議來處理,嘿。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1133.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1140.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
請你們不要再這麼鬆散了 這個問題很嚴重好 謝謝主席我們一定會努力 謝謝 |
| IVOD_ID |
158173 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158173 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-14 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-16T11:58:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-16T12:17:56+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |