| IVOD_ID |
158093 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158093 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-11 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-11T16:08:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-11T16:29:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7bc6073edac3146d38ddf79972baca387bc0e35bc25a01cc78ec33fa255ee16961f4198ff1cb05dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:08:34 - 16:29:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名張文貞、姚立明、何賴傑、陳運財、王碧芳、廖福特、劉靜怡7位為司法院大法官，並以張文貞為院長、姚立明為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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副院長有請王備提名人請備提名人答詢你好委員好你好嗎的意思好今天我們審查大法官備提名人 |
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34.755 |
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63.482 |
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我們看這個憲法很清楚憲法第62條立法院為國家最高立法機關由人民選舉之立法委員組織之代表人民行使立法前尤其是法律案的制定而我們的憲法增修條文第12條對於修憲的門檻非常的高 |
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64.845 |
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93.512 |
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要四分之三的立法委員的的決議不僅僅是四分之三的立法委員而且還要經過公民投票附解是不是這樣所以我們看這個憲法第78條司法院解釋憲法並有統一解釋法律及命令之前是解釋憲法 |
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95.578 |
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123.345 |
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所以在做相關的違憲的審查的時候不應該一頁立法委員、立法院的立法簽而我們看這幾年幾個重大的這些解釋大法官的解釋都被批評為造反甚至修憲了 |
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124.611 |
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150.678 |
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甚至修憲 等一下會再跟你做一個討論所以大法官不應造法不應修憲不應一頁立法院的立法權跟修憲權尤其是修憲這還要經過人民的公投覆決我們看這個113年憲判制第8號最有爭議的這個廢除死刑 |
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154.56 |
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182.147 |
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雖然沒有完全廢除但是對於有幾條刑法的條文認為違憲而且相關的機制還要從你看還要什麼我們就以判決主文的第6條科處死刑之判決應經各級法院和議庭法官一致解而且還沒有修法之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
183.567 |
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191.529 |
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委員關於宪判制113年宪判8號．這個判決本身當然就是基於這個宪法訴訟法38條． |
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211.778 |
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232.665 |
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第一項的規定就是居宿全國各機關及人民有居宿全國各機關及人民的效力所以我們也就是先尊重就是這樣子事實上如果這個案子要做公投絕對不會過高達83%的民眾不贊同廢除事項 |
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241.127 |
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267.678 |
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所以這個部分呢這樣的一個幾次的判決之後因為你之前在大法官的書記處當處長現在是嗎現在是最高行政法院的法官你之前在那邊你也推動了這個憲法訴訟法對不對所以這個憲法訴訟法顯然是要去檢討以這最近的幾個判決來看的話 |
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271.233 |
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294.191 |
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大法官的實體判決跟憲法訴訟法的程序規定這是兩件事情我知道但是相關的這些規定絕對有影響我們就看這個好接下來看這個103年4月18號釋制第719號對於原住民族工作權保障法 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
295.693 |
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317.004 |
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當時的大法官．尚無違背憲法第7條平等原則及第23條比例原則．以憲法第15條保障之財產權及其工作權之內涵．之營業自由之意旨並無不符．當時的大法官．然後會因為大法官的一個． |
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320.197 |
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342.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
思維不同、見解不同：又改變了這你的報告裡面有提到110年10月8號釋字第810號就變成對人民受憲法第15條保障之財產權所為限制顯不符相當性而有違憲法第23條比例原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
345.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
371.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
前面103年的時候沒有過了7年：因為大法官不同、見解不同：就改變了這樣的一個：而且規定呢：重點是你可以：經過民國90年：制定的工作權保障法：研究民主工作權保障法：經過多年之後： |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
372.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
374.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
委員這件案子我可以說明一下嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
394.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
420.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
請說這件案子其實就是我們在行政法院在遇到這樣的一個這個貸金的案件裡頭就遇到這種採購法裡面那個小案件大公司去接小案件對於這個貸金對於原住民我沒有否認要修正但是你不可以當然不是你了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
421.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
440.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
大法官不可以直接一頁立法前．你可以請立法院或相關機關．確實有不符比例原則要修．但是不可以直接就要求法院．這種案子你就要依本院的意旨． |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
442.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
460.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
還是有還是要經過修法修法還是交給立法前我的重點在這邊好不好因為這不是你判的了這個案子是我們何議廷申請的所以委員我再補充一句好不好我知道你的這個範疇我都看了我都看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
462.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
477.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個當初這個原住民族採購法在您訂的時候我在人民會服務啦我們完全肯定要對於原住民有很好的保障只是這一件就是他的這個貸金的金額已經超過他的採購案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
478.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
483.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
原住民身份法106年8月8號行政院含送到立法院他最主要的就是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
506.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
524.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
平埔原住民納入在這個原住民身份法的草案裡面要列入106年8月8號行政院函送到立法院立法院經過內政委員會召開了多次的公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
526.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
545.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後立法院的內政委員會也審查完成審查107年12月24號完成審查你也知道第9屆的立法院當時的立法院民進黨絕對多數而且是行政院送來的法案對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
547.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
574.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但是第9屆從107年內政委員會審查到109年1月31號立法院民進黨團絕對多數的民進黨團都沒有把他列入要二讀三讀的這個議案裡面所以就沒有完成三讀成績第10屆的立法院109年到113年 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
577.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
606.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
行政院就沒有再送來至少在第109年沒有送來110年也沒有送來但是呢司法院大法官在111年現判之第4號針對剛才講的那個原住民身份法第二條平埔原住民這個部分這是另外一個你看看這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
608.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
635.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
相關的這個部分就做了這樣的一個判決所以我要講的是說原住民身份法涉及到原住民他是不是原住民 對不對要尊重原住民主你要知道原住民身份法的立法的歷程我跟你講我那時候是人民會的處長負責這個業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
638.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
665.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我要把原住民身份認定標準提升為法例的位階以前是認定標準提升為法例的位階在草擬的過程當中我們委託政治大學的民族研究所去做徵詢深度訪談原住民族包括我們的立法委員當時的前任的立法委員也做了部落的訪談 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
668.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
697.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
經過這樣的一個深度訪談之後再經過相關的寫者的一個審查提供意見然後草擬了草案這個草案在園民會有族群委員這些族群委員各族都有來審查然後送到行政院行政院都沒有動喔尊重園民會的族群委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
698.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
725.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
然後送到立法院．民國89年送到立法院．立法委員也有版本．經過立法委員的審查之後．三讀通過．是這樣的一個歷程．誰既被原住民身份．誰不是．應該是怎麼樣．應該是要尊重原住民族．因為聯合國原住民族前例先言．第33條規定． |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
728.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
753.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
原住民族有權按照其習俗及傳統決定自己的身份或歸屬。憲法增修條文第10條第12項也規定國家因應民族意願保障原住民族之地位所以這個部分聯合國的原住民族權利宣言跟憲法增修條文都有這樣的一個規定我們看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
756.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
783.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
111年的憲判之第17號的主文特別規定這裡面就是談到平埔原住民的部分平埔原住民我剛有講了對不對行政院主動要修這個原住民身份法立法院經過多次的審查之後而且民進黨絕對多數他仍然不認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
784.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
808.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
行政院的版本所以沒有讓他二讀三讀是這樣就是在尊重當時的原住民身份法的立法的過程原住民主的意見然後呢做這樣的一個111年憲判之第17號的主文這裡面就說違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
811.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
840.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
違憲而且還要定時間如果還定時間而且這三年內沒有修的話就直接就可以取得原住民身份這就是一頁的立法權不只是一頁立法權我告訴你 被聽命了而且也一頁了立法院的修憲權為什麼呢民國81年修憲的時候有兩個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
841.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
870.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
有兩個提案是要把平埔族納入到憲法所謂的三包裡面但是表決沒有通過不同意83年啊三包修正為原住民的時候也有一個提案就是要把平埔族納入到所謂的原住民原住民族 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
872.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
899.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
經過審查之後表決不通過表決多少?四分之三啊!四分之三的表決啊!國民大會啊!就跟現在一樣啊!四分之三啊!四分之三的表決不通過而現在﹐大法官﹐幾位大法官﹐沒有人民的﹐沒有參採﹐也沒有問原住民族啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
900.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
927.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你沒有遵循原住民主就說違憲這不是修憲嗎大法官就竟然做了修憲的一個一頁的憲法對於司法院你只有解釋憲法現在不只是修造法而且還修憲你認為這樣是不是修憲因為當初有討論國民大會有討論這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
934.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
938.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
大法官對於憲法有解釋的權利當然就是說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
940.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
961.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是因為憲法的這個條文．包括即使我們有憲法徵修條文．條文還是非常的少．所以大法官就要依照他的這個．就是根據他的所調查的．所有的立法資料．所有案件的資料去解釋．去充實那個憲法規定的意義． |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
963.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
985.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以大法官的解釋是有豐富憲法意涵但是跟修憲應該還是有距離的應該不能稱為修憲這樣子這是修憲因為當初在國民大會確實討論了平埔族要不要納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
986.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1015.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
而且是經過表決．討論之後經過表決．4分之3的決議不通過．所以這個部分．這個大法官．可能沒有去了解過去的歷史背景．而且最重要的就是沒有徵詢嚴肅民主的意見我給你讓貝提米納了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1019.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1044.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
從清朝開始：可能清朝更早就有了：我是沒有那個資料：至少清朝：生番熟番的劃分：就很明確了：而且：定在法例裡面：清朝的法例：大清粒粒：明業界入生番地：勢同出道：入官善 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1046.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1068.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
生番地就是生番,就算熟番要進去也不行所以相關的這些規定在清朝的規定裡面以至於到日本統治台灣也都是這樣生番熟番所以才後來在整個國民政府開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1069.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1093.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
也就是一直沿用從清朝到日本到國民政府就這樣劃分台灣很多的族群對不對很多閩南人他不認同他是漢人你知道嗎不認同他是中華民族我們都尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1096.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1123.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們是從清朝就開始了很多從過去這樣的一個情形之下當然要尊重原住民族的本身就是憲法包括這是聯合國原住民族權利宣言所規範的尤其是剛才我特別提到國民大會在修憲的時候就曾經討論貧苦族 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1124.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1152.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
是不是要納入．所以大法官．這個判決．這個憲法法庭的判決．是已經．不僅僅是一頁了．立法牆．尤其是一頁了立法院的修憲牆．所以這個部分．對原住民主的議題．絕對要去尊重原住民主我曾經． |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1155.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1182.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
因為上一屆沒有通過我現在徵詢你的意見我在上一屆因為剛才講的判決憲法法庭的判決我提案涉及原住民族族群集體前者應先徵詢原住民族議員我是希望在憲法訴訟法裡面能夠增加這樣的條文當然當時立法院民進黨絕對多數不可能接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1184.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1212.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
你過去誠心朝你的意見如何?我認為憲法法庭審理任何案件都應該要廣納各方面的意見所以憲法法庭也常常在行言詞辯論甚至於包括請鑑定人還包括有法庭之友的制度那當然委員您提的這個要去徵詢原族民族的意見是非常好的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1212.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1239.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
因為誰是中華民國的國民由中華民國來決定不可能由國際法庭來去決定一樣原住民主誰是原住民主謝謝曾委員謝謝貝提敏委員下一位請林國成委員詢問 |