| IVOD_ID |
15809 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15809 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-15T08:30:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-15T12:03:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:33:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2daf422f9e9122ef278bd03a951da4504b3be8d109af184be40bce5df7f16840e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「我國國際合作發展具體成效暨未來目標」，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:14 - 12:03:59 |
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報告委員會初期委員9人已租法定人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2183.237 |
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2210.516 |
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謝謝不好意思我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年4月1日星期一上午9時至12時23分地點黃樓山明一會議室出席委員黃仁等11人內席委員嚴寬衡等19人內席人員國防部部長邱國正及所屬人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2211.857 |
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2231.342 |
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經濟部常務次長林全能、國家科學及技術委員會工程技術研究發展處處長李志鵬、主席馬昭及委員文君,報告事項一宣讀上次會議思路決定確定。二、邀請國防部部長邱國正、經濟部次長報告國防自主政策推動具體成效及未來目標．並請國家科學及技術委員會列席並備質詢。 |
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2236.403 |
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2260.968 |
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國防部部長邱國正．軍備局局長林文祥．及經濟部常務次長林全能報告委員黃仁等12人質詢．均由國防部部長邱國正．全民防衛動員署署長白潔龍．軍備局局長林文祥．憲兵指揮部參謀長呂振芳．國家中山科學研究院院長張忠誠．及航空研究所所長齊麗平等即席答覆 |
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2262.194 |
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2284.531 |
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決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員所提口頭及書面質詢為其答覆或要求提供之資訊請相關機關與二周內以書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會委員令指定期限者從其所定三委員王洪威所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報修正通過臨時提案一案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2286.691 |
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2314.95 |
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請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏、錯誤或需要更正之處?那我們議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項二,邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告我國國際合作發展具體成效及未來目標．並備質詢。宣讀完畢那我們現在介紹在場的委員首先介紹林楚英林委員 |
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2317.219 |
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2339.936 |
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沈博洋省委員．還有今天與會的官員．外交部吳釗燮部長．亞東太平洋司藍夏里蘭司長．亞西及非洲司陳永柏副司長．歐洲司黃君耀黃司長． |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2342.014 |
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2357.001 |
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拉丁美洲及加勒比海司 鄭麗成 鄭司長北美司王良玉王司長條約法律司 連建成 連司長國際組織司 孫簡元 孫司長國際合作及經濟事務司 連育平 連司長 |
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2367.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2376.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國際傳播司徐永梅徐司長研究設計會張雅光主任理兵處李志強處長秘書處洪振榮處長人事處黃麗玲處長主計處李佩華處長資訊及電務處林啟文處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2396.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2405.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
公眾外交協調會劉永健執行長非政府組織國際事務會陳剛毅執行長臺灣日本關係協會范振國秘書長領事事務局陳上游副局長財團法人國際合作發展基金會李朝成秘書長財團法人臺灣民主基金會 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2425.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2429.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
代理執行長廖達祺本日會議邀請外交部吳釗燮報告我國國際合作發展具體成效及未來目標．並備質詢。．現在請吳部長上臺報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2462.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2478.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生、大家早很榮幸前來大院就近年我國國際合作發展具體成效及未來目標進行專題報告書面的報告就請大家參閱以下就重點做口頭的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2479.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2502.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
在國際合作發展途徑之上我國是由受援國轉型為援助國的這個成功的範例政府在1996年正式成立財團法人國際合作發展基金會作為推動國際合作發展工作的主要執行單位並且在2010年由大院通過國際合作發展法以及六項執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2503.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2529.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
逐步建構了制度化、透明化以及和國際接軌的國際合作發展體制我國的營業工作是以夥伴國的需求來觸發善用我國優勢的科技技術、產業技術和當地的政府和人民來合作派遣技術團協助夥伴國家能力建構以達致聯合國永續發展目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2531.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2550.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
其特殊性多年來在國際間已形成獨特的台灣模式2016年起我國政府秉持踏實外交互惠互助的外交政策理念藉國際合作發展工作以鞏固與邦交國的雙邊關係同時深化和理念相繼國家的合作此外 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2551.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2569.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
也拓展國際合作的多元性鼓勵並且促進企業和NGO等民間機構共同來參與透過整合公司部門的資源以國家隊的這個概念將國際合作發展推進到新的層次目前外交部委託國和會在全球共有19個國家設置20個駐外技術團 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2572.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2582.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
每年平均執行超過上百項各類型的雙邊技術合作計畫中俄我國近年執行國際合作發展工作具體的成效如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2584.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2607.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第一建構以及強化夥伴國糧食安全的體系主要與我國農畜漁產等事業先進的技術優勢協助夥伴國的糧食生產具備自給自足的能力目前我國在太平洋的友邦以及新南向國家的印尼、泰國、菲律賓、越南等國都有執行糧食安全的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2608.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2632.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第二協助提升夥伴國的公衛醫療水準公衛醫療是我國的優勢領域所以我國長期在友邦友好國家執行公衛醫療計畫主要有設立醫療團執行疾病防治以及醫療資訊管理等合作計畫並且協助證監醫院添置醫療器材完善當地的公衛硬體設施第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2633.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2659.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
提升夥伴國的數位治理能力我國藉由完整的資通訊科技產業鏈協助夥伴國家提升數位發展近年我國在貝里斯、聖文森、聖克里斯多福、尼威斯以及聖露西亞等友邦分別執行交通建立資訊服務、智慧公車管理以及監控、地震業務資訊提升以及科技融入教學等計畫第四 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2661.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2688.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
協助夥伴國的產業發展,主要是複製我國中小企業成功的發展和轉型的經驗﹐積極引導夥伴國家的產業發展升級﹐例如在瓜地馬拉推動農村家庭銷售輔導計畫﹐在巴拉圭執行微中小企業輔導體系能力建構計畫﹐和蘭花商業生產與營運輔導計畫﹐另外在印尼執行卡拉旺地區蔬果行銷體系強化計畫等等﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2691.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2716.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第5提供災後緊急人道救援近期在土耳其大地震、烏克蘭遭受侵害、日本能登半島地震以及聖文森、蘇富瑞火山爆發等事情發生的時候我國都以物資援助、派遣專業人員以及現金援助等人道援助來緩解夥伴國人民遭逢災難的痛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2718.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2745.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第6協助夥伴國培育所需人才主要是藉由提供獎學金、教育與訓練計劃協助友邦和夥伴國家人民進行能力建構第7執行防疫國際援助疫情期間我國將舉世矚目的防疫成果轉化為國際合作向國際社會提供醫療物資、藥品、技術等援助並且協助友邦疫後經濟復甦以創造善的循環 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2747.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2774.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
未來我國國際合作發展工作目標首先為深化我國優勢領域的國際合作並且順應國際潮流納入環境保護維持生物多樣性淨零排放等新興的議題其次將會鼓勵私部門參與國際合作發展工作並且加強公司合作夥伴關係增強我國員外工作的能量最後是持續拓展和理念相近國家以及多邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2776.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2800.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
組織來合作,強化院外工作的多元性與貢獻度。各位委員,臺灣國際處境雖然特殊,但是作為國際社會負責任的一員,必須將持續作為全球永續發展的堅實夥伴。外交部將繼續擴大我國的推動國際合作發展的這個工作的深度和廣度,藉由雙邊合作累積的能量,擴展臺灣多邊參與的國際空間,為我國院外工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2806.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2812.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
感謝各位委員對本部的業務的支持也請各位委員繼續指教和協助謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2818.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2847.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們現在開始詢答本會委員8加2分鐘﹖非本會委員6分鐘10點30分發言登記截止﹖如果有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右我們視詢答的情形進行處理那現在也補充說明吳部長因為有重要公務11點會離開會場離開以後由田中光政務次長代理我們現在請沈博洋委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2860.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2861.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝主席 有請部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2868.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2895.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
委員早部長好那這個時間今天也比較趕所以我就直接切入主題那今天最主要的是想要問這個對外交人員的騷擾因為之前發生這一個蕭美琴準副總統的這個事件不過前面我想先問一下一個跟這個這次政災比較有關的事情就是因為看到很多外國人呢他們其實都是想要捐款到台灣那目前來講外交部有沒有整理這方面的讓其實國外的捐款可以進來的這些資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2897.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2912.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有 我們有在做整理那另外就是我們衛福部已經開設那個捐款帳號那也透過我們的外管讓各界說想要捐助的可以透過那個衛福部的這個帳號但是有比較大筆的有公開宣布比較大筆的那包括日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2914.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2940.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
韓國以及泰國和立陶宛等等的這些國家那這些我們都有做整理那除了那個捐款之外其他國家有說要提供那個協助的那我們也有做整理那另外還有表達哀悼或是表達支持的我們也有做整理那其實可以那個從這件事情也可以看到就是說我們台灣發生事情的時候國際的這個協助的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2940.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2950.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝部長那像右邊這個圖就是說其實在國外也很多人會問說因為他們有些是他們當地的組織發起一些募款然後募款再跟台灣做對接那這一個我看起來應該到最後是建銀紅十字會那總之呢其實有很多這種便利商店的募款那目前對接的這種狀況我們台灣有辦法掌握嗎因為他其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2970.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2972.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
以後對於這種有可能用虛擬貨幣捐款有沒有什麼研擬的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2989.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3007.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第一個有關於在國際上面就是有一些NGO或者是有一些民間團體或者是自行發動的這個要捐獻的這個部分我們都會提供那個衛福部的這個管道所以應該大部分絕大部分都是流向那個我們衛福部設立的這個震災的這個專務 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3009.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3032.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那這個正宅的專戶透過我們的那個外管或者是透過我們對外面來說明的外交部本身對外面說明的那我們衛福部的這個正宅的這個專款專戶應該是受到大家的這個重視那如果說要捐款的話透過這個是最直接可以協助我們的宅民那另外如果說直接去捐助的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3033.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3033.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
謝謝吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3063.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3076.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那我就切入今天的這個比較重要的一個主題就是這個我們的總副總統在布拉格所遇到的一個狀況那前些年以來不管是這一個好像我們蔡總統去發生了抗議事件然後這個在中國去鬧場我們的國慶酒會這個是屢見不鮮 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3079.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3095.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以這邊有兩件事情就是說第一個就是我們對於這些外交人員目前的訓練那訓練我講的可以分兩個層面第一個層面當然是人身安全就是他們基本的一些防身那另外就是資訊的安全因為我看暗網上面很多洩漏的資料很多時候他去打這個所謂的外管 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3095.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3115.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
打外管這種資訊安全的訓練現在目前的狀況如何以及現在假使我們今天資訊安全人身安全的訓練假設都已經做到某一個程度但是有時候這個不一定有升高對方的成本所以有沒有什麼可以去升高對方成本的一個方案那不然的話他們其實這樣一直做我們也不知道該怎麼防範不知道這方面有沒有一些嚴厲的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3116.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3142.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
非常謝謝委員的催詢第一件事情就是有關於那個人身的安全或者是說如果說我們有訪兵到其他國家去訪問的話那我們外交部的這個責任當然是有就是必須要去偵查可能對我們訪兵有這種人身安全妨礙的這種可能的資訊那交由其他的單位either是那個當地的執法單位或者是說那個我們國內的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3144.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3145.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
外交部部長吳釗燮報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3168.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3194.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
每一次有這些情況發生的時候我們外交部都做很多的這些討論希望能夠強化我們的這個治安那我們也討論過有幾項的這些工作我們必須要去做去防堵所有可能的這些漏洞的這些根源那在過去這段時間我們的努力的結果看起來那個這個受到駭客攻擊或者是說被竊取我們相關的這些機密資訊的那個情況是有大幅的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3195.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3222.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那我因為我是建議就是說像目前的確因為暗網上面外交人員有一些被打的一個資料他的確還存在嘛所以就是可能針對這個部分做重點的加強可能是現在資訊安全訓練蠻重要的一個地方但下一個問題就是說因為這個是屬於直接的一些騷擾比如說是人身的騷擾啊駭客的攻擊啊但另外一種就是他屬於是比較懷柔的接觸型的因為之前我們在講這個退伏會的時候我們都知道其實軍人現在很多人簽這個投降協議書 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3224.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3251.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
他是先透過這些退休的將領接觸他們之後再接觸現役的軍人那在外交人員會不會也有這樣的狀況就是他去接觸的是退休的外交人員然後再接觸現役的外交人員那以前我有遇到一個狀況這是一個小故事就是說像我們的退休外交人員他們可能透過什麼新加坡、馬來西亞的智庫來做這個詢問然後詢問的過程當中就是說你是不是可以幫我寫一些跟台積電等等相關的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3252.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3278.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
寫完報告之後他就直接給現金這個現金還是透過這一個人的什麼國中同學然後在那邊在中國做台商然後交付給他那他這個做完之後再下一次他就跟他講說那你下一篇文章幫我寫有沒有外交部的八卦你以前在內部的時候有沒有聽說過誰的醜聞如果有的話這個錢再給加倍所以他其實都是透過這種退休的這種方式然後再去接一現金那因為去年大量的執法我們可以知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3279.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3298.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
目前的這個共諜案很多幾乎是所有都是透過退休的這些降臨來完成那外交人員現在我們對於退休外交人員的管制或者說我們明明好像退府會有做一個勸說機制或等等的就是目前的管制或者說要盤點他們有可能被中國接觸的這個狀況不知道現在進行的如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3299.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3328.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
非常謝謝委員對這件事情的那個吹薰有關於退休的外交人員只要是涉密的話我們都有涉密的這個管制依照國家安全保護法來做處理那目前都有非常有成效的在處理那另外委員剛剛有提到說那個透過這種個人的關係個人的這個接觸等等那這個比較像是接觸現任的這個外交的人員那的確我們有看到這些狀況那看到這些狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3328.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3343.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
也透過我們內部的機制提醒大家要注意那目前我們所掌握的就是說雖然說有看到這些狀況但是沒有因為這些狀況我們外交部受到一些這種相關的這個干擾或者是說造成影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3345.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3361.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
因為有時候像中國他們是在探尋重要的情報或者重要的國家機密那國家機密可以受到法律的保護他如果今天洩密的話一定會有一些違反的法則嘛但因為中國比較喜歡的做法反而都是問八卦比較多或者問隱私比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3361.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3364.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
委員會用很多隱私跟八卦做蒐集以中國的做法來講他的隱私跟八卦蒐集好之後甚至可能10年之後才打出來也有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3377.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3401.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
現在比較麻煩的事情是說有一些我們用警報工作法大概是可以處理的但這種情資、八卦、隱私等等之類的很難用這個方式來做處理所以不知道以後有沒有可能有一些相關的一些方案能夠被研擬出來因為畢竟目前來講退府會是他們自己也沒有太多的方式他只能從譬如說退休金來下手但他下手的時候畢竟還是這些人已經違反了 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3401.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3417.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
相關的這些情報工作法等等之類的他還是沒有辦法直接接觸到這些就是隱私的洩漏該怎麼處理的狀況所以這邊是一個簡單的建議可能在接下來幾個月我們或許應該要過這個做防範畢竟在520之前他們應該有很多種這樣的一些手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3417.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3447.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好那接下來就是非常非常快速的問一下我以為今天時間會那個夠用就是上一次就是部長沒有來的時候應該跟次長在討論就是說我們在做外交有分政府國會這個部分還有中間智庫學界跟公民組織以及最後的社會大眾那現在社會大眾我們很難去做是因為中國用TikTok做了非常多社會大眾的部分所以這算是已經變成我們的弱項那當時呢次長有提到說針對公民組織智庫學界這個部分應該要做更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3447.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3474.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那現在面臨一個狀況就是如我們長期的跟各國的智庫交往這是外交部一直以來都有做的事情但現在是如果他們能夠直接在台灣設點那一定更好嘛但現在INGO在台灣設點的一個狀況其實有時候不管是他們要拿工作簽證啊或者說他們要開賬戶啊設公司啊其實都遇到蠻多的困難所以之後呢可能想要問部長就是就這一塊在INGO要在台灣落地這件事情因為畢竟它對我們的外交會有很大的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3475.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3493.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
因為時間因素我可能先給這個建議我們下次再繼續討論這個問題我也簡單回答一下就是說有關於ING由來台灣落點這件事情剛開始的時候的確是有一些摸索的這個狀況那要到底要走什麼樣的這個路那我們也碰過一些摸索的這個過程但是這個路 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3493.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3493.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
臨儲應委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3527.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3528.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
主席吳釗燮 吳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3537.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3557.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
部長早安我們知道這個520剛剛連媒體都非常關注接下來的人事的部分但是不論如何我都希望這個還能夠繼續在我們的這個外交國防委員會來繼續質詢因為部長對於我們的整體的臺灣所面臨的這全球所因應的這些環境其實是非常資深也非常的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3557.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3581.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那麼但是其實面對中國對於台灣的這個國際的打壓本席這一趟去了越南參加世界台商會回來之後更有感那麼當然在過程當中也許我們沒有第一線接觸但是部長一定非常的感同身受我先從我們的未來的準副總統在捷克行遭到中國武官跟蹤這件事情講起隨著520的加緊 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3585.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3598.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
接近我相信一定有許多外交上面的阻礙正在無形的但是並沒有展現出來就以媒體在4月7號的報導提到的中國五官尾隨我們未來的副總統蕭美琴副總統那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3601.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3619.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
以這個國際的角度來看我來念一個是香港資深評論這個鍾建華教授的說法他說以現代的科技要跟蹤需要用這樣的方式嗎還是說你一定要讓對方知道我正在跟蹤你甚至於差點釀成撞車事件讓媒體來披露所以他們懷疑其實這是一種無形的壓力讓這無形的壓力現行 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3629.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3648.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那我想問部長從事情發生到現在了那麼目前外交部的掌握跟了解是如何就像剛剛沈博安委員也特別提到的就是外交人員在國外所受到的人身的安全但是這個除了外交人員本身應該要有的安全的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3648.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3663.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
或者是嘗試之外如果像這種其實挑明了就是一種挑釁甚至於想要進而製造事端的時候外交部到底要如何因應而現在有關於準消副總統的這個事件到底是一個什麼狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3665.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3690.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
非常謝謝委員有關於在捷克發生的這個事情我們也不斷地在跟捷克的相關政府部門在尋求了解尋求澄清也有一些說明那這個跟媒體說明的大致上是相符的那我想那個捷克是對我們非常友好的國家對於這種相關的外交人員的這些做法的確他們是不予認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3691.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3715.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
但是實際的這個作為必須要由那個捷克的相關政府部門他們去處理那我們就不過度涉入但是一件事情很重要的就是說中國的外交部門這種戰狼式的這些作為不管是對於我們的訪兵或者是說對於我們外交人員在參與活動的時候的這種跟蹤騷擾甚至是很大規模的這種抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3716.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3745.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那甚至是有一次在一些國家引起肢體衝突等等的那這些事情都是讓我們非常的小心去面對那我想我們的外交人員都有這種警戒那種很高度的這種警惕性碰到我們該爭取我們的相關的權益的時候我們絕對不會退收那有關於那種其他國家跟蹤騷擾的這些事情那他們也都會報回總部由總部這邊來加以思考看接下來要怎麼樣處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3746.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3772.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以部長如果是以數字或事件來做統計的話是不是真的隨著就是說戰狼外交的興起那麼在國際當中我們所遇到的這種接近衝突性的過去可能只是暗示性或是沒有那麼顯性但是像蕭副總統準副總統所遇到的這樣的一個狀況是不是在比例上是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3773.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3799.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
在過去一段時間我們的確有看到那個中國的外交人員對我們的這個壓力是有增加的這個趨勢但是在最近這一段時間我沒有辦法確定說到底有多少時間但是最近這一段時間我們感受到的就是我們直接的這種壓力的這個狀況似乎是在減輕當中但是還必須要去有更多的這些資訊才能夠讓我們有比較好的這種分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3800.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3826.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
因為畢竟我們在許多的友邦其實只是友善之邦但是我們並沒有真正的所謂實質上面的外交關係所以我要直接的問那麼這樣子的話當我們的重要的一些部長甚至於像這種以準總統的身份到其他友邦去的時候在安全的維護上或是人力上面是充足的嗎包括於第一線的外交人員他們的安全上面是充足的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3827.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3852.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
目前看起來應該是不會有問題因為如果說比較高層的話他們出去的話應該是會有這種安全人員那這個是由我們的相關的請示單位來提供的那應該是人力相當的充沛那如果說真正成績很高的話到其他國家去的時候也必須要跟其他國家的這個相關的單位來密切的這個配合那我想這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3853.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3876.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那種維護人身安全的這種這種能量應該是不成問題應該是不成問題好 那麼另外當然就是我們上個禮拜剛從這個越南回來參加這個全球台商的聚會喔那麼確實其實在當天外交部的晚宴的時候到現場的時候我是第一個到的立法委員那麼當時我就發現非常奇怪就是居然三個主桌都沒有出現桌牌這個跟過去我們在參加這個台商會的活動是不太一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3881.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3903.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
當時他們只是稍微輕輕地點了一下說因為桌牌出了一些狀況所以沒有出現桌牌後來事後我們才知道說因為國旗的出現就是桌牌上面出現了我們中華民國的國旗所以突然間在晚會要開始的前半小時就消失了那麼部長在我們回來之後的一個將近一個禮拜了 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3905.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3915.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那麼您怎麼來看這一次同樣的在越南這樣的國家甚至於包括這個媒體也披露了原本是算是我們世界台商會的榮譽總會長的江啟臣副院長他的簽證甚至於下不來這些都是存在的中國伸手來打壓嗎還是我們跟越南的關係不夠密切 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3927.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3955.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這個事情有幾個層面可以來做說明那第一個層面就是說我們的世界台商總會到越南去開這種年會那我們應該有差不多1000人左右的世界級的這種台商要去那邊開會那越南政府原本是非常歡迎的因為這個台商到那邊去可能會去尋求到那邊投資或者是做貿易的這些機會這個對越南政府來講也是非常重要的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3955.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3974.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
但是第二點就是說中國的那個壓力的確是很龐大雖然說越南政府剛開始的時候是歡迎但是因為中國的壓力實在是大到越南政府都沒有辦法去承受的時候所以有很多的事情就受到限縮了才會有委員剛剛所說的這些狀況除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3977.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4004.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
中國的這種對我們去那邊的這個台商的活動的打壓之外那我們也可以看到就是中國的打壓他是不分我們國內的這個政黨那像那個江啟臣副院長他是國民黨籍的但是他就受到打壓他甚至是那個連簽證都沒有辦法拿到那我們有去立洽但是還是沒有辦法那越南政府的態度就是說他們受到這種壓力是很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4004.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4032.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
可是副院長事實上是民意代表所以連副院長他用另外一個名義就是臺商世界臺商總會的那個榮譽總會長的這個名義也同樣無法同樣受到這個影響所以我們可以看得出來就是說中國是透過各式各樣不同的這個民意方式對我們臺灣的這個國際空間進行打壓對於一般民眾或者是說企業界的這個活動他們也會打壓那這個是我們要認知的所以我們臺灣要更加自立自強 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4033.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4056.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
好但是呢面對外交部來講現在大概就是接下來520可能是外交部最重要的一個工作之一喔那麼如果就部長您所言的中國面對台灣的這樣的一個打壓是方方面面而且戰狼外交持續升級那麼會不會也是因為520接近現在在各個外交的部分包括我們的外賓現在的其實邀訪據傳至少有800位 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4059.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4066.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
但是在這樣的過程當中目前以外交部來說進行的工作有沒有感受到中國給予的壓力? |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4067.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4093.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
目前有關於520的這個外賓的部分我們是比較沒有感受到的壓力尤其是來自於友邦國家友邦國家參與的那個狀況非常的踴躍那也因為外賓來的那個成績很高團很多非常的踴躍所以我們外交部這邊的那個協助的這個能量我們是擔心不足所以還要從其他的單位甚至是從海外調回那個可以支援的這個人力來 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4095.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4116.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
協助520相關的安排目前從海外來的團數應該是超過40團可能人數還不到800大概400多500左右不管是怎樣我們在這次的520可以感受到就是說有來自世界各地的慶賀團要到這邊來慶賀我們台灣這個非常重要的民主的時間點 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4122.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4138.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那所以說部長最後大概可以確定在520之前我們在這一次的520當中會有多少的國家那多少的外賓目前有個數字嗎我剛剛所說的就是說應該是有40幾團那目前是有400多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4139.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4152.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
好 那麼我們其實可以感受到啦就是我前面所要提問的就是520要將近那麼不論是從蕭准副總統在捷克所遇到的狀況或者是我們到越南去世界台湾遇到的狀況我相信都是希望給520我們未來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4154.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4155.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4187.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4187.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
謝謝主席,有請吳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4196.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4219.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
委員好部長好部長本期要延續林楚英委員的這個議題那中國對台灣的打壓確實是不遺餘力比如說今年3月份蕭美琴總副總統到捷克遭到這個中方的五官尾隨監控這件事情然後真的就像剛剛楚英委員所講的差一點就釀成了這個車禍那其實在去年的時候我們的蔡英文總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4221.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4226.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
過境美國的時候其實就遭到中方動員來騷擾來叫囂那這些成員裡面甚至還有這個中國在美國設立的這個所謂的海外警察站的這個成員在這個裡面那這海外警察站的其實有含了什麼人呢他們都是中國前軍人跟情報人員派駐到這個地方去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4244.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4263.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
然後呢他們就發展這個橋界的志工組織然後在在各個地方的進行這個政治活動所以我們比較擔心的就是說像這個中國其實在全世界各地其實都設立了這個所謂的海外警察站也就是說以後我們的政府元首出訪的時候其實增加的這個危安風險是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4265.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4295.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4296.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4311.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我們的吳部長非常謝謝羅委員的這個提問那如果說每一次要那個政府高層出訪的時候那除了我們外交部這邊扮演相當程度的這個角色就是協助安排所有的這個program那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4312.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4335.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
必須要扮演非常重要角色工作的就是我們的國安局那國安局是負責那個高層的這個維安那每一次出訪的時候涉及到維安的這個安排也都是非常的仔細那有關於細部的這些狀況可能我們這邊就不適合來做說明但是我們會把那個我們的高層出訪的時候所設的這個維安的這個工作當作是一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4336.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4352.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那甚至是像我們外交部的這個安排也必須要去跟那個我們的維安的這個體系就是我們的國安局那邊討論到說我們的確是有辦法去維持那個高層的這個安全的時候我們才有辦法去落實我們的這些出訪的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4352.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4364.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我想這都是國人非常關心的這個問題我們的政府元首出訪到底會遇到什麼樣的狀況那再來我還有看到就是說真的他們的這戰狼外交真的是讓讓國人這是瞠目結舌像2020年這個斐濟的這個國慶酒會上面中國的外館 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4371.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4371.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4393.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4400.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
怎麼會這些行為這些不友善的行為會在越南來發生因為在越南在國人的認知裡面兩國之間的這個關係是應該是非常的這個密切像越南他在台灣的這個一共有26萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4409.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4414.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
外籍配偶有超過11萬人外籍生也是在所有國際生裡面的最大宗有超過2萬人我們在越南的投資說實在目前在越南的台商其實有將近7萬人類似這種狀況我們都認為說兩國之間的邦誼的友誼應該是非常的密切 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4432.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4437.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以上個禮拜竟然發生了這個如此不友善的這個動作我在想對國人來講這是非常非常的這個遺憾那像部長您在看這個狀況那以後因為我們在全世界各地其實都有台商 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4448.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4457.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那以後舉行這種台商的活動絕對不是只有在越南各個國家可能都有那我們會擔心說因為中國的壓力以後在其他國家所舉行的這種連社團類似社團的這種活動都會被打壓像這種狀況的話我們在國際上這個我們要怎麼樣來做化解呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4469.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4484.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
非常謝謝委員有關於我們台商世界台商總會或者是說其他的那個海外的這些團體組織要在哪裡辦這些相關的活動的時候我想我們外交部這邊一定是會盡全力來幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4485.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4505.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那這次的那個越南的狀況可能不是單獨也不是唯一那接下來也有可能再度發生那不管是怎樣只要是在沒有邦交的這些國家進行我們的相關的台商會活動的時候我們外交部都會盡我們的這個能力來跟當地的這個政府盡量溝通協調讓我們的這個活動能夠辦得圓滿順利 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4509.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4532.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我想這個部分的話我想越南的台商應該是非常的非常的遺憾這件事情在我們來看的話也覺得說怎麼會跟台灣有這麼密切往來的越南居然你會因為畏懼這個中國的這個壓力然後對台灣做出這麼不友善的動作我想外交部往後在國際上我想困難會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4533.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4534.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
的關心,的確中國在國際的打壓是無所不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4549.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4572.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
而且無孔不入那之前曾經針對那個我們的國際的這個參與國際組織的參與或者是說其他非邦交國進行活動的這些狀況都有一些打壓的這些作為那關於中國在海外的這些打壓的作為或者是說去扭曲我們參與的這個模式那我們外交部門都不斷的在掌握當中對於未來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4573.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4577.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
臺灣的這個外交的處境真的是非常的困難也辛苦了外交部也辛苦了再來我們請外交部長先回座再來我想邀請的是領務局我們的陳副局長陳副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4608.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4627.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
主席委員好副局長好我們近期有發生這個國人的護照被不法集團轉賣給這個中國人社集團的這個事件那這些護照被變造之後流落這個市面那這些持有台灣這個假護照的都是中國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4628.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4643.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那他們是利用這個台灣護照在全球110個國家想免簽證入境的這個優勢呢然後呢拿了這個台灣的假護照然後進入到歐洲各國去那也許他們進到這些國家從事的是不法的一些行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4644.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4656.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
他們如果是做了一些不法的行為,變成說做壞事的是中國人,可是承擔的可能就是台灣,因為他拿的是台灣的假護照。那像這個部分的話,我們對於這個護照的這個買賣,我們當然有罰則。 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4661.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4663.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
有關委員提到這個問題,確實是我們外交部理事事務局目前極為關切的一個情形,就是我們的護照 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4685.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4699.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
目前遭到就是說不法集團的一個有系統性的一個變造據目前前幾天那個上禮拜依然地檢署曾經發布一個新聞將近有50本護照遭到變應該是說這個護照是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4702.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4721.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
是國人把它辦理一本護照之後呢交給一個中方的一個不法人士把它販賣出去所以我們想要藉這個委員這次的質詢也向國人同胞做一個說明因為我們護照條例第30條有一個非常明確的規定假設你將護照做這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4724.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4746.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
29條到33條有非常明確的規定假設你這樣這個護照就是說交給他人去使用等等必須負有刑責的而且這個刑責是非常大的是7年以下並得科70萬的罰金所以在這種情況以下國人因為據報宅報導是說大概架構就販賣這樣一個護照大概是可以獲利7000元到1萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4751.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4756.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
本局已經在所有包括我們外交部四個辦事處就是說就國人在申辦護照的時候我們加強一個查核的一個動作第二個我們跟國內的所有的一個檢調機關包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4775.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4779.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
第13會加強與其他國家的合作關係,包括本局和局長今天剛好率團到歐洲訪問。就我了解,裡面有比如說到西班牙到義大利等等都會跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4802.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4802.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4824.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4848.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
一個配套措施底下我相信這個事情應該會慢慢獲得一個解決那我想請問副局長我們這50本的源頭找到了嗎所有人他的原來的所有人他們會受到這方面的重罰嗎我們有沒有找到這些人報委員現在因為這個案子已經進入那個時間的關係進入這個調查之中所以我們大概知道因為很多情資事實上是本局提供的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4849.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4850.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
接下來請王帝宇委員上台諮詢請吳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4883.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4887.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
華爾街日報有一個標題你有看過嗎?世界上最難的外交工作之一即將開缺這苦笑啦你對這個標題有沒有什麼評論沒有評論前面四個字事實上最難這是一個很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4908.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4908.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4928.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4932.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
的確感觸很深的確我在外交部已經超過6年但是如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4946.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4968.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
外交部有什麼樣的這個成就的話這個不是因為我個人而是因為我們外交部整體的這個團隊那我很自豪就是說在過去這裡有點多跟一個非常堅強的一個外交的團隊一起努力的工作那我想我們台灣也應該非常的自豪我們有一個非常強的一個外交部團隊我們到各地看齁我們現在駐外的人員或我們外交部回部辦公的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4969.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4992.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
老中青銜接的還不錯但因為他把你形成形容成最難其實坦白講最難的外交工作意思就是成就很難達成挫折非常多所以6年多來的任期我們外交部替我們台灣的外交達成的成就我想讓外界來說有沒有比較遺憾的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4994.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5017.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
遺憾當然有啦那個我想我們國人都感到非常痛心的就是說中國在國際社會上面的這個打壓無所不在尤其是我們的這個邦交國所面臨的這個壓力是最大的一塊那這些只要是中國他得逞的時候就是我們外交部感到非常遺憾的時候那個是得逞的嘛那個大概不只是遺憾啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5018.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5027.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
但是有一些遺憾是明明可以做到卻差了那麼一點點那個叫遺憾啦告訴你一件事國際組織啦邦交國啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5028.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5047.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
有沒有你這6年任內覺得就差那麼一點點的事當然有但是也不適合在這邊講就是說有時候沒有達到並不是表示說永遠沒有辦法達到一時沒有辦法達到的話那如果說我們持續長期的努力的話應該是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5048.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5076.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
或者每一個時期的外交人員那個累積的成果或者是累積的困難都是後續要去承接的那成就當然不管跟各主流國家的互動或者在國際的能見度或者納入多邊安全的系統或者你去看所有的2plus2或者所有的高峰會議很難得看到台灣幾乎都是在關心的前三名的議題所以我講成就讓外人來說但是我倒期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5076.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5088.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
外交部可能要去整理一下有一些東西大概是哪個點會讓我們可惜那還有一個月到520有沒有要注意的警訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5090.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5108.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
目前看起來是還好但是因為那個520是一個重要的一個節點所以我們外交部這邊也非常的這種謹慎在處理我520我剛才看到有委員在問各國你剛才講大概有400多位的外賓會來參加我問的是比較具體的就是有沒有元首負元首等級的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5113.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5126.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
有,我們的友邦有很多,都是元首、副元首大概幾個國家?8個8個國家的元首或副元首會到有沒有總理、副總理等級的?就是涵蓋在內那議長、副議長等級的? |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5132.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5151.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
議長有嗎?國會團,就是議長等級。國會團很多。有沒有副議長級的?總之speaker of the house那個是有一定的意義嗎?這次沒有?所以大概都是國會團、友好團等等。所以大概八國的元首、副元首、總理、副總理,那另外國會團加起來400多位。 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5153.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5172.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
還有那個外交部長帶來的還有外交部長那剛才講你判斷在未來的至少這520前目前沒有特殊的警訊因為以往我們都會問燈號我知道你很久開始就不回答燈號了那我再問在這最後一個月有沒有期末的成果展現有沒有好消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5178.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5201.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
目前是沒有但是也非常坦誠的跟委員報告就是說我們外交部為什麼會這麼難就是我們要守成這個部分就是不是很容易那如果說在未來的一個月兩個月之內如果說沒有其他的這些特殊的警訊的話對我們外交部來講這個就是一個好的事情沒有警訊就是好消息那如果有所突破那是另外一層次的事情我移到下一個話題 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5203.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5219.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那個中國籍配偶鄭紫娟嫁來台灣之後離婚再跟他原來的核心前夫復婚復婚之後呢結合福建的福清幫以一萬塊台幣左右的價格收購台灣護照再以一萬美金就30倍把他出讓給 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5220.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5248.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
需要隱匿身份進入歐美國家的人大概50本目前查到是這樣子這個犯罪模式有幾個我們要注意的第一個需要隱匿身份的人當然就是有問題的人嘛所以他拿自己國家護照出去就好了嘛他要隱匿他中國籍的身份或者隱匿他個人的身份所以這裡面有人定義成對歐洲或者其他民主國家是一個國安跟治安的雙重問題那我現在要請教我們的外交首長吳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5250.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5279.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
你知道臺灣人民或者政府的努力我們在國際上贏得的信任程度高所以在義大利有9個國家可以快速通關臺灣是在以色列法國日本其中之一在日本我們可以免簽我們甚至於前一段時間討論到美國的這個優先通關preclearance就是預先通關在臺灣設置很多這些措施或者那麼多免簽國是來自於臺灣可被信任 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5280.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5287.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
台灣旅客文明程度高不會隨便跳船不會隨便亂弄這個案件的影響國際媒體報導出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5291.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5309.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們外交部有沒有收到其他國家這不一定是邦交國可能是主要民主國家你像義大利啊或者歐盟對台灣就比較禮遇嘛有沒有收到這樣子的關注或關切因為我沒有辦法去關注到所有的這個細節那我請我們的領務局的同仁來簡單說一下有沒有相關國家關心說欸我給你們護照方便欸那結果你們護照被人家賣了變真的護照假的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5319.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5337.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這對我們臺灣的旅客在國際的移動有沒有影響報告委員這個案子基本上如果說據報載那50本我剛才已經向羅美林委員根據墨菲定律啦對或者蟑螂定律你看到一隻蟑螂家裡就有千千萬萬的很多情資是本局提供的但是就委員的垂詢事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5339.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5363.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
幾乎是每天我們都會做到外館一個回報就是說有關於一些個案的情形那甚至我們的駐外人員會會同當地的官員去詢問假設這個人護照在機場你知道他這個犯罪模式是買了台灣的護照去對對看他們中國籍人是誰長得比較像他不是偽造喔他就是持這本護照直接進出喔這個護照是真的喔完全沒有偽造喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5365.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5381.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個除了會影響我們台灣的國際聲譽以外對我們台灣的遊客本來方便啊我護照拿了到日本就進去了嘛到美國免簽嘛線上辦就好了等等這個案件如果再一再一再的發生你的判斷會不會影響我們台灣護照在國際的平等 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5385.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5405.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
委員因為我們國內的護照我國的護照它的安全係數是非常高的偽造不方便才會變成直接冒用那直接冒用因為對岸的人民跟我們事實上某種程度上長得比較像你這樣講不對其實在某些西方人看到亞洲人都覺得長得很像都是一樣的所以它有一個冒用的方便性但是我現在意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5406.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5424.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
犯罪集團永遠都在犯罪就像你講只有50本我不認為啦那是你們撈到了50本現在就是說我們怎麼樣確保我們臺灣民眾在國際移動間這本護照的平等因為買賣護照一本30萬這二三十年來都有聽說啦東南亞也有發生過嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5425.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5438.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這件事情有沒有其他國家關心這個事情過目前就本局的資訊來講倒是還沒有但是我們國內的一個檢調機關警察機關跟本局已經有一個非常好的溝通模式這個根據護照條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5441.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5455.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
買賣護照供他人冒用的話最終判7年嘛對一年以上7年以下對最終判7年嘛那這個我覺得一般在賣護照的人可能好像覺得就像3000塊錢賣一本那個帳戶讓人家去洗錢一樣其實這個刑責不算輕是 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5455.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5479.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那這個犯罪鄭紫娟這個中配的犯罪集團事實上是被組織犯罪條例來查辦也是重罪我覺得外交部可能要加強宣導這個部分另外對於護照申請的護照是人民國民的權利可是他護照賣給別人表他自己根本不用嘛你知道他買賣護照是找那些沒有護照的人請他去辦護照賣給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5481.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5494.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
不是買那個有在用的我自己要國際旅行了我怎麼賣你我賣你我怎麼辦所以他找的是那個不移動的不國際旅遊的人所以這怎麼樣結合出入境管局透過數據的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5495.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5497.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我最後跟主席借一分鐘請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5517.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5530.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
剛才我看到幾位同仁都問到蕭美琴副總統當選人在捷克中國派出的是武官喔軍事人員軍事人員開著外管的車中國外管的車跟到什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5532.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5550.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
他為了跟上他闖紅燈差點發生車禍被發現那個車的車牌是中國駐捷克的外交人員車上的兩個人是中國的軍事人員好這個是國際媒體揭露的我請教部長我們台灣方面什麼時候知道這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5551.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5576.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
是事件發生的當下還是之前就知道他們有派人在跟是之後那目前只有捷克有這個事情嗎?我不認為中國會只有捷克吧在捷克是有媒體報導的這個狀況那其他的地方有了解到說可能有一些跟蹤但是比較隱密的這個方式當地國現在怎麼處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5579.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5595.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這是侵犯他國內政欸如果說沒有造成任何的這種違安的狀況的話那通常都是我們會繼續去注意啦那也不適合去跟那個地主國去跟他們做更多的接洽現在捷克的地主國外交部有 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5596.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5618.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
對,他有約中國的駐捷克大使然後我看他們國會的外交委員會的主席要求驅逐有沒有新的進度目前並沒有有新的進度我們希望隨時知道因為這個不僅僅是安全而且剛好見證到在國際自由民主遵守國際規範的國家跟不遵守國際規範的獨裁國家在國際形勢的差別對台灣來講這是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5623.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5651.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我不能講發揮是一個必須關注而且跟當地國溝通的事件我們希望外交部加油這涉及到兩個事情一個是 rule of law那個委員知道一個是 rule of space international order那這個在所有的民主國家都把這個當成很重要的但是中國都是違背的是好謝謝部長謝謝委員謝謝王立運委員部長請回謝謝下面我們請馬文君委員就發言台請謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5658.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5660.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
謝謝主席,麻煩請吳部長。今天其實有非常多的委員都有在關切,那部長可能也要回任國安會,那這麼長的時間在外交體系上面,當然我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5682.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5701.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
面對的整個外交的環境是非常困難不過這過程當中我們當然目前可能還是持續在發生的我想要請教部長本席也發現在3月29號的時候部長也接受了丹麥貝林時報駐台記者的採訪那針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5705.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5731.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
丹麥政府將我國人居留政上的出生地注記改為中國一事：部長有呼籲丹麥要尊重臺灣人民的自由意志：而且正是國際公認兩岸互不隸屬的這個事實：那部長就您提出來就呼籲了以後丹麥政府到目前為止有沒有做過什麼樣的調整：或者這個要會怎麼樣的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5733.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5750.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
還沒有正式的調整但是我們可以感受到那個丹麥相關的這個部門尤其是他們外交部門對這件事情的這個重視那我們也期待說接下來沒有多久那個做法就會有所改善有可能改善嗎有可能改善那我們也會繼續的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5752.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5756.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
因為部長萬一你調整職務以後那這個就是下一任部長的工作了那這個全世界最困難的工作我想其實在你的任內如果可以其實應該要把它完成因為為什麼我們提到丹麥這個距離我們比較遠可是我們看到另外一個就是今天有委員在詢問的部分我們新南向 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5775.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5799.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為包括丹麥我們可能也沒有辦法對它有什麼樣的強制的要求那我們出生地你的註記就是中國那我們國人完全沒有選擇的餘地在新南向我們著墨這麼多年的情況之下這一次我們委員會還有包括其他的委員其實去越南參加台商總會這個聯席會議的人數也不少 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5803.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5807.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
雖然包括我們的僑委會的委員長沒有辦法成行還有江副院長他的簽證也沒有下來我們在這裡也會發現到這樣的問題因為越南跟我們其實關係是非常密切的尤其像除了移工以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5823.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5838.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
僅次於印尼,到台灣來的移工人數也非常多,包括有婚姻狀態的,這個也非常的多。那越南在計畫投資部他們統計的資料,在2023年我國在越南投資的金額高達28億8千382萬美元,這個較他們去年同期的成長高達113.36%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5853.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5880.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
據該年度外資的第6位其實如果把從中國大陸或者其他國家轉投資的不是直接台灣這樣直接投資的其實如果再加進去我們應該在五民營內因為這個越南的住處好像有做過這樣的報告所以其實我們對越南的投資還有相關的產業發展各方面還有包括人力資源等等其實關係是非常密切的可是連這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5882.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5899.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
臺商會的這樣的一個活動我們大概也會受到這樣子的打壓那當然最重要的是越南政府的態度我們現在要說的其實中國的打壓是無所不在從過去到現在都有這近幾年其實是更明顯那其實也凸顯了兩岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5902.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5906.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
要如何的對話包括因為我們除了外交的工作以外我們有很多兩岸關係的處理到底應該要發揮什麼樣的智慧去做這個在跟其他國家在交手的時候其實它更顯重要因為它的一舉一動就是牽動我們所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5923.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5935.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5936.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5958.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
非常謝謝委員的確中國在國際社會上面打壓我國的這個案例是層出不窮那我們外交部這邊也是竭盡我們所有的這些能力希望能夠矯正其他國家對我們的這種打壓矮化的這些作為比如像丹麥的這個事情除了透過住管除了透過國際的友人以及國會議員之外那我的這個發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5959.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5988.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
也會對當地的政府造成一些壓力所以我們會用各種最好的這種做法來改善其他國家對我們的對待的這種方式那有關於越南的事情的確是他們的受到中國的壓力是很大的所以才會採取這些對我們不友善的這些作為那接下來我們還是會透過其他不同的這種方式希望能夠改善我們在越南所受到的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5989.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5992.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
部長顯然我們不管做什麼樣子的改善其實是很難因為任何國家包括越南一些新南向的國家包括其他國家甚至包括美國日本韓國在我們認為的認知裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6005.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6015.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
是我們理念相近的國家他們在考量國家利益的當下他甚至都會做不同的一些作為因應所以部長你未來有可能再進到國安會其實你的面向應該更廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6021.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6028.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
個人的好惡我覺得這是一部分可是怎麼樣讓我們整體包括我們自己台灣的處境地緣政治還包括我們在國際的現實的狀況其實我想這個都應該是要全班考量的這個部分因為你包括俄烏戰爭包括以哈包括現在中東緊張的局勢可能在增加的情況之下因為伊朗 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6047.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6072.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
如果他這個報復行為以色列再有什麼動作他可能牽動的都會是更緊張的一個狀態所以對台海今天如果二屋還沒有結束今天如果中東的情勢在緊張那台海的局勢有誰可以施多少力量來協助我們這個就是要考量的所以就整個國安的全班的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6073.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6077.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
考慮我想這個可能是部長未來在這個部分其實要去考量的兩岸關係他其實非常重要他牽動的你不只是美中台或者美台或者美中我想其實最重要的兩岸關係還是請部長可以在這個部分可以再加強不然你再怎麼樣呼籲丹麥政府你再怎麼樣跟越南政府交涉都沒有用那這個部分我想其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6103.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6123.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
是可能也是新政府要面臨的一個可能的一個國際的一個現狀還有它的現實那因為剛剛有很多委員都提到在這段時間之內像部長也提到我們斷交很多可是有沒有可能增加邦交國 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6125.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6137.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們沒有排除任何的這個狀況剛剛委員所說的那有一個陷阱我沒有跳進去我也不想跳進去就是說我現在還是外交部長那我會把外交部長的這個工作那如果是身為外交部長也應該要去考量這個部分那如果有可能是關那個陷阱不是我設的那媒體講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6147.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6150.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
有關於我們所面對的這個國際的局勢的確是有各式各樣的這個壓力但是也有一些可以讓我們掌握的這個機會比如最近發生的事情就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6167.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6183.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
日本和菲律賓的元首到華府那邊去他們形成一個新的這個結盟那這個可能就是我們的一個很好的機會所以在外交部長的這個任內的話我們必須要去面對所有的這些局勢包括委員剛剛說的但是也要去掌握到可能的這些機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6184.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6189.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
部長如果就你講的他們這一次到華府去參加這個我們釣魚台已經不見了所以我想任何國家他們我一直在強調任何國家他們考量的是他們國家本身的利益包括大國他們考量的是他們的整體發展還有對世界的控制性可是我們台灣其實對我們來說2300多萬的我們的人民其實我們考量的就是我們的安全還有我們的財產確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6214.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6233.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
還有我們需要和平那就這個部分我想其實我們往往在被討論到的時候都是我們的區域的重要性而不是我們整體的台灣的利益所以這個部分我們還是在這裡要特別提出來那為什麼那個一定是以我們國家利益為考量為什麼我們提到邦交因為我們現在面臨的還是有很多這樣的狀況那應該要怎麼樣從根本去解決我想這個可以如果你 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6243.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6246.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
不喜歡自己做那也可以想辦法找適當的人做我們應該要怎麼樣面面俱到讓我們失去這樣的風險我想避免這樣的風險我想這是大家可以去考量的一個方向因為包括美國跟中國其實我們在講他們的競爭關係他們都還可以坐下來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6265.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6275.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那只有談才可以讓很多的衝突去避免剛剛我們提到就是邦交國有沒有可能增加這個部分因為美國拜登總統在上個月初簽署了太平洋國家這個部分包括密克羅尼西亞、馬紹爾群島、帛琉他們提供了71億美元大概新台幣2233億這樣子的一個金元自由聯合協定 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6293.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6296.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這項協定除了援助資金以外也允許美軍進出這一片廣闊的海洋領土那為什麼提到這三個國家因為其中兩個是我們的友邦那另外米克羅尼西亞就本是知道的就是有掌握的媒體報導的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6313.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6320.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
就是說去年初密克羅尼西亞政府曾經致信北京如果中國堅持武統台灣那該國就會跟美國結盟並且攻擊中國當時的密國總統也曾經跟部長接觸表達要跟台灣建交的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6331.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6352.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那隨著美國在太平洋自由聯合協定的這樣簽訂以及我們國和會配合美國國際開發金融公司的資金投入我想請教部長我們有可能再增加一個邦交國嗎就這個部分那個可能性我們沒有排除但是那個委員這個powerpoint上面所show的就是COFA是指三個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6354.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6377.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這三個國家裡面本來就沒有包括土瓦魯土瓦魯有另外一個我們跟美國跟澳洲一起合作的案子都在推動當中所以就我們的三個邦交國跟國際合作來協助的這個部分是沒有問題的至於邦交會不會拓展的這個部分我們是沒有排除任何的可能性那也必須要努力來做其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6381.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6390.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
像我們提到的這個土瓦魯的部分其實我還沒問到這個部分是不是有警訊這個我想後續有時間大家再做討論那我們更希望在美國如果勢力這麼大然後也提供這麼多的金援我們也希望他在這個太平洋島國想要做這些相關的控制的時候希望美國在520送我們一個大禮就是讓我們再增加一個邦交國這個部分再請部長多努力謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6412.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6412.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6443.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6445.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
今天我們看到這個我國國際合作發展具體成效的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6459.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6471.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那我認為說這就是區分我們跟中華人民共和國的不同之處那中國的一帶一路各種用著合作國際合作之名實際上留下長大債務龐大債務卻沒有辦法去歸還的這些狀況不斷的在這些國家發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6476.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6499.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那過去一帶一路也好或者是到現在其實中國的各種的經濟的泡沫泡沫化的這個狀況其實就是在跟世界表達一件事情就是民主自由的國家有我們自己的責任我們向國際社會的責任所以我們國際合作發展的具體成效不僅僅只是給我們的立法院而已我也是希望說未來我們可以把它圖表化數據化 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6500.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6525.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
然後讓所有在研究台海關係的每一個學者因為每一位學者現在國際學者特別是來自這些歐美國家的國際學者他們在這個社群媒體他們的影響力是非常大的所以把他們全面性的圖表化英文化數據化對未來把我們台灣的軟實力發展絕對是一個很棒的一個做法也是一個很完善的做法不知道這個部分部長未來可不可以來協助推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6526.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6554.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
非常謝謝委員的這個建議我們會來執行當然是依照用世界地圖然後像是各個不同的智庫一樣他們會把這些東西可視化那可視化之後對於未來我們再去跟其他國際社會來爭取台灣的能見度都會有幫助那第二部分我想要請教部長關於我國的另外一種的國際合作那當然就是跟國際形勢的部分那為什麼會談到這個事情我想大家都知道最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6555.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6576.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
臺灣面臨到很多的這些兒少剝削的挑戰那這一些的問題社會有關注之外有些網站的主機伺服器是設在海外我想請教一下因為我先肯定外交部和警政署都一起合作要加入我們的這個國際刑警組織但是他們的秘書長史托克在2022年直接講明我們沒有辦法授予 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6577.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6592.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
他們沒有辦法授予台灣觀察員的地位我想請教部長就是說如果在這樣的狀況之下如果沒有辦法取得這些的通報我們跟美國日本等盟國的善意之外還有沒有其他的合作機制可以不用受到這樣子的機制來去束縛 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6593.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6612.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我想現在最主要的這個做法就是說跟這些有盟國家來密切的合作那可能委員也有注意到就是說我們的警政署在每年也會開一個國際合作的這個會議那這個就突顯出來說我們警政單位在跟其他國家合作的這個狀況但是最終還是應該要讓我們能夠去參與那個世界行進組織所以我們為什麼要參與這麼多國際組織那對我們來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6620.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6649.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
有這些資訊我們才能夠面臨到俄哨剝削也好或者是性犯罪也好這樣的國際的能量資源進入我們才能夠來去面對這樣的挑戰所以包含中國在各種國際組織來去不讓我國能夠進入這樣的組織我們還是要予以嚴厲的譴責那我想請教一下對我國比較善意的盟邦包含美國日本歐洲的國家那這些涉及比較暴力性犯罪或者是性犯罪或者是俄哨剝削的部分有沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6649.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6674.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
取得完整的入境警示通報這個部分因為比較不涉及到外交那如果是外交的話等於是一個載具讓我們的那個警政相關的單位能夠透過我們外交的這個載具跟其他國家的那種警政單位來互相合作那如果說有我們警政單位需要我們外交部來協助的話那我們外交部這邊當然是義不容辭一定是協助到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6675.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6698.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
但是委員剛剛講的很多那個國際的這個參與國際組織的這個參與是涉及到那個聯合國2758號決議案被中國所扭曲被中國所誤用那這個部分我們也在努力當中好謝謝那想要請教這個部長最近台灣聚集參加聯合國氣候變遷大會那這一次是在哪一個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6701.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6722.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
接下來會是在亞賽拜蘭我必須要提醒因為亞賽拜蘭過去對台的立場可能會影響到台灣參與的程度和權益2022年起我們好像看到亞美尼亞跟亞賽拜蘭之間的衝突除了兩國的這些問題之外我覺得國際的情勢是訊息萬變 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6723.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6725.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我們都有在做準備當中我先請我們條法司的司長來跟委員做一下說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6747.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6776.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
謝謝委員其實這個部分我們都跟衛福部做了各種的狀況的模擬那我們當然知道在亞塞拜蘭對國人的入境有一些限制但是其實我們也知道過去過去的一兩年國內也有一些比賽的團體還有一些學者有入境參加國際會議所以這方面我們還是會繼續的努力應該沒有問題吧是可以參與的吧這是可以入境的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6778.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6787.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
希望是可以的希望是可以但是可能會有比以往更加高的這個難度但是這些都是我們外交工作的一個挑戰那我們會盡量來克服 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6788.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6811.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
好謝謝那再來想要跟部長討論一下外交人員的這一個任免的狀況那近年來我們的新南向政策那蓬勃的發展那許多參與我們外交特考的這一個領事人員那儲備也是越來越豐富不過我是看到說另外一部分行政人員每年開的大概就是兩三名左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6812.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6832.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那我想說對於我們的所有的外交人員來說的話我們當然是希望他能夠盡可能的去跟該國的國會議員或者是政要甚至是一些重大企業能夠有更多的互動的這種可能性所以會不會有行政人員過少反而這些人要協助行政的這樣的問題存在呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6833.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6858.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
跟委員報告一下就是我們派駐到海外的這些同仁那尤其是在中小型館的這些同仁我們的外交領事人員就是我們外交部派出去的那個外領人員他們也必須要去協助處理行政相關的這些工作所以我們這邊所任用的那個外交行政人員人數比較少那這個不會影響到我們全體的那個外交的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6859.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6877.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
不好意思部長你剛才說的我有點不太理解你是說這一些我們的這些臨時人員的人數偶爾要做行政的工作所以不會影響到所以不會那個不會影響到整體的那個外交的這個工作比如像我們的那個行政人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6878.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6902.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
外交行政人員如果說派去的話應該是派去比較大的那個管他們的行政的業務量比較大但是在一些中小型管的話全部都是我們外領人員那我們外領人員必須要去肩負相關的這些行政的工作部長我的質詢的意思就是說因為在這些比較小的管裡面儘管是比較的小管但我們希望他的時間能夠專注在非行政的業務部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6902.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6903.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
外交部整體經費增長中 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6932.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6932.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6957.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6957.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6974.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6994.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
部長你覺得呢我想我們的這個整體的外交戰略在那個2016年上任之後都已經相當的這個確認就是務實外交他是外交那這個方向因為都已經非常的確認所以在過去在8年我們的外交都一直在這個軌道上面來工作了 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6995.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7013.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那既然那個賴總統當選人他已經說過就是說他會遵循那個蔡總統的這個外交戰略的這個途徑的話我相信這個整個軌道是不會位移的OK好謝謝部長那最後我還是要特別提到最近的這些衝突包含以色列跟伊朗 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7013.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7013.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
吳釗燮報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7038.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7053.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
還有這幾個極權主義的國家他們之間的合作是越來越加深所以對於國際合作這個部分其實過去台灣這二十幾年三十幾年來我們都是秉持著這個有點像是人畜無害 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7054.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7082.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
但是其實我們現在要做的可能要更多協調我們跟盟國之間的資源包含跟美國包含跟烏克蘭那所以我對部長對烏克蘭多次聲援的這件事情我是肯定的啦因為很多人都覺得這是他國事務但是如果沒有烏克蘭那我想我們國家遇到的挑戰絕對會在阿富汗之後是太大了那所以我們希望說未來給烏克蘭的資源也是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7083.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7100.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
不是只有這種單純的善意而是真正的他們能夠運用到的因為接下來的挑戰是複合型的也是跨區域的不是說遠在俄羅斯就遠在烏克蘭就跟我們無關其實都是有關聯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7101.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7123.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
正是因為烏克蘭成功地嚇阻俄羅斯這樣的強權國家所以中國才沒有辦法對我們有更進一步的戰略性的侵擾所以我還是強調說外交部可以全面性的檢討他們到底需要什麼樣的資源特別在安全保障上面我們能夠提供什麼那他們能夠跟我們互惠什麼我想這些是外交部可以做的那不管下一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7125.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7153.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
外交部長是誰我想這樣子的概念我覺得還是要傳承下去謝謝非常謝謝委員的確委員從這個比較大的國際戰略的這個架構來看的話我是百分之百贊成委員的這個說法就是說我們跟烏克蘭之間一定要有相當程度的這個連結那如果說我們沒有去協助烏克蘭的話那接下來我們怎麼去期待其他的國家能夠來協助我們所以這個是我們會繼續去做的還有情報資源就是他們到底他們這次遇到什麼樣的情報的挑戰在 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7155.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7157.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
接下來請洪森和委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7194.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7194.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7202.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7223.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
吳委員好部長我們今天這個委員會牌的主題是要來討論這個外交部的國際合作發展這個政策的計畫我記得我大概在也許一個多月前其實我也質詢過部長其實是關乎我們在討論到氣候外交的國際合作的戰略 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7224.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7249.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
當初齊署部長也給我很正面的回應說願意來找行政院跟相關的部會來做這相關的研擬我在一個月後也想問一下部長這個事情有沒有進行進行到什麼程度有去了解但是你知道現在在transition的這個時候就做這些事情就會比較麻煩那尤其是有相關的這個部會的首長可能會有異動 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7250.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7256.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
所以在這種狀況之下要去做這件事情可能會有困難但是這個事情一直在我們的 agenda 上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7257.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7280.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
部長我其實一直想要提醒因為當然我們都知道其實在聯合國的機制下進行這些氣候方面的合作我們會有些先天上的困難但是其實現在在氣候跟淨零的議題上面其實恐怕也不是只有聯合國相關的管道就像部長我認為部長一定非常非常熟悉 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7281.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7303.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
就像現在國際上面尤其民主國家對於中國在輸出他們的新能源或者是這個新能源車上面都有很多的顧慮可能是他們低價傾銷的顧慮或者是資安上面的顧慮其實這些工作都可能可以是我們跟其他民主國家在氣候跟競爭上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7303.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7303.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7325.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7346.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個清消太陽光電板或者是他的逆變器或者等等等會有資安的疑慮或不認為是一個可信任的夥伴的時候這反而是我們可以扮演角色的時間我覺得這部分也希望部長可以納入去做相關的思考跟規劃這是第一個事情第一件事情是這個我們今天看我看了部長提供的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7348.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7365.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
國際合作發展的政策的內容我其實很多都很樂見但我也看到裡面講到說我們要來協助很多夥伴國家提升數位治理能力提升數位治理能力當然是一件好事但我在這邊有幾件事情想要提醒部長部長我想先給你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7367.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7380.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這篇文章其實是我們的前政委郭耀煌老師其實曾經針對台灣運用數位方案來協助烏克蘭的數位重建的相關的投書我不知道部長有沒有看過這篇投書並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7382.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7400.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好部長那我簡單的來跟部長說一下這邊投書裡面大概有幾個很重要的重點他其實談到了其實如果我們要來對其他國家來做數位方案的協助的時候最大的重點是要如何跟該國社會建立緊密的合作默契跟合作的網絡這是第一點第二點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7403.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7427.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這個要從社區居民的實質需求來導入這個數位的方案如果反客為主的話雖然居民可能形式上接受但可能不一定會形成實質的效益第三個是他說到其實應該要設法結合民間資源包括國內外的NGO或NPO來以利永續發展那最後一個是說要了解當地的風土民情跟數位服務的供應鏈的生態 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7428.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7455.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這一篇是郭澳煌的教授其實做的我覺得是很重要的建議部長你同不同意這幾點建議同意那我們其實像我們對烏克蘭或其他國家的數位重建的計畫我們有沒有納入這樣的設計跟考量部長就你所知有一些這一類的考量但是我們對烏克蘭的這個援助並沒有在那個數位發展上面做一個那個重點的這個發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7455.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7483.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我相信因為尤其烏克蘭他是一個緊急的援助他有他的時間的壓力但這邊我想要跟部長其實再更仔細再談幾個事情我們其實在這數位發展的合作上當然有他技術面的部分我其實相信以臺灣的技術團隊來說的話我們技術團隊跟其他國家相比其實是很有可能是領先的我相信這件事情可是在談數位建設跟數位治理部分可能也不是只有技術面 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7484.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7500.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
很重要的部分是到底是真的能夠產生幫忙尤其是產生什麼樣的幫忙甚至提供的幫忙也是有責任的部長你同意嗎是當然部長所以我們現在在講幫友邦來建立或幫我們的夥伴來建立資通訊基礎建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7502.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7530.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
其實當然你可以把它當作純粹的技術工具可是用得好的話你可以再造福可是用不好的時候可能會有負面的影響我這邊其實想跟部長說部長現在我們看我們有翻了一下現在台灣援助友邦的自動訊計畫這些計畫我有點進去看有一些是幫忙建立自動訊基礎建設但我也看到一些是幫我們的朋友建立人臉辨識或智慧影像監視系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7531.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7539.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
就部長知不知道其實這些包括人類辨識包括這個智慧影像監視系統用在哪裡部長知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7540.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7568.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
有些知道,比如說索馬利蘭他們的紅膜辨識系統就是因為要方便他們的投票的這種作為因為他們的身份證建制並不是很普遍所以像這個最主要的功用是在這邊像這一類的我們也很擔心說這個比如像人臉辨識系統如果說遭到誤用的話這個的確是會有一些不好的這些後果 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7569.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7589.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
部長我要提醒其實像這些技術的導入其實是需要非常非常小心的這些技術即便要用在台灣假設在台灣使用我想非常多的人權組織跟NGO組織恐怕都會非常憂慮但這不是只是猜測說使用者他有善心還是壞心不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7589.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7612.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
就以臺灣的狀況來說我們其實已經逐漸知道這些技術如果要使用重要的是要有很多法律授權的配套包括權力保障上面的配套有沒有這些法制上面的配套其實是這些技術工具尤其是可能是有潛在倫理爭議或者是價值爭議的技術工具的使用的前提 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7614.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7639.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以這不是只是去猜測那個當權者他好心還是善心不是這樣子而已而是他有沒有相對應的準備充足這些相關的法律而且他是一個民主法制相關的工具因為我們都希望我們的這個援助計畫其實是以價值為導向的之前我們也聽過很多次我們很難想像我們今天號稱一個民主國家可是跟其他國家方面的合作是去 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7640.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7667.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
提供他們更多監視人民或者是擴張威權或擴張某些權力集中的工具我們很難想像這件事情所以部長這邊我們有看到類似的結果這邊不講哪一個國家但我是覺得部長恐怕對於現在這些技術的使用外交部是不是要再審慎的檢視一次我現在不先說他一定使用在什麼地方我不下這個定論但這恐怕是一個爭議性的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7669.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7686.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
剛剛說索馬利蘭說用這個紅魔辨識這其實沒有用到好這個生物辨識是可以用在很多不應該使用的地方的喔那他們有沒有相關的法規或他們的政策是什麼東西這部分我不知道我們的外管或我們的外交部掌握夠不夠清楚部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7687.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7715.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我想那個有關於那個索馬利蘭是因為當時他們的那個選舉是我們希望能夠積極支持他們讓他們的那個民主能夠建構的更加成功那但是因為他們的這個人別的辨識是有問題的所以他們希望我們協助這個部分所以這個是協助他們的這個民主的發展那目前沒有看到任何的這種負面的這個狀況但是委員剛剛所說的的確是一個我們更加要小心一點的這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7716.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7744.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
只要有提供這些協助的話那我想我們的這個相關的法制作業應該也要更加的完善我們會來注意部長我覺得這邊有兩段工作第一段工作是我們要先知道我們提供的這個技術合作包括技術它可能是潛在有爭議的技術我們要第一點先知道這件事情第二個我再知道以後我不是說不能跟對方合作但要先確認對方的環境有沒有能夠好好使用這些技術用在我們期望的價值性工作的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7745.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7772.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我覺得這個也要確認第三個實際上面他怎麼用我們可能也要事後的檢核其實這裡面有好幾段的工作我希望外交部我們在做這些數位治理的合作的時候都應該做到位我們真的很不希望變成是國際的醜聞說哪一個國家他用了什麼台灣的技術結果用在輿論前置或用在人權上面的前置我覺得這絕對對台灣是一個很不好的消息傳出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7772.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7793.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
所以我這邊不談個案我今天不談個案但我覺得外交部應該要有個系統性的檢視這個檢視我自己建議恐怕是不是能夠包括來請外交部請包括科技社會STS的專家包括數位人權的專家一起來協助外交部來檢視這些資通訊員外技術的把這些案例進行研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7793.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7814.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那你們有個研究的報告他們做一個做一些診斷或建議那這個報告我自己是覺得可能兩個月內其實可以出來這兩個月內讓大家知道說我們還在做這些數位的協助上面還有什麼地方可以增進的空間部長這應該沒有問題吧我做很具體的建議應該沒有問題那個時間齁時間那個不要抓的那麼死啦三個月好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7815.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7834.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
不一定說三個月我們這邊來做整體的檢視如果說可以提早我們就提早這樣子好不好部長因為接下來也涉及到年終的時候大家要討論下一個年度的預算的編列所以我覺得也讓大家能夠安心我覺得盡量應該要在下一個年度的預算出來之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7835.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7861.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
給大家有個明確說到底我們怎麼使用目前使用的狀況是什麼東西那請這些外部專家直接來進場來協助也不是只是我們自己內部公務員自己來講而已這部分部長我覺得請你大概在我至少覺得八月前啦好不好我們盡量來做啦那我請國經司的司長就這一件事情我們來做成一個完整的報告好沒問題謝謝然後也可以送到外交國防讓其他委員一起來參考好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7867.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7874.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好,我們待會兒黃國昌委員質詢完畢以後休息5分鐘現在請林益君委員上台質詢有請部長請吳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7901.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7921.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
林委員好部長早最近幾年臺灣外交路線逐漸由援助轉向合作大方向本席是認同各主要的政黨也有共識但很多做法上還是做得不夠好臺灣之所以會轉向合作為主其實除了金融外交成效有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7922.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7940.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
甚至有時候被當地的官員貪污之外主要是因為我們跟中共的國力有明顯的差距需要把資源做到更有效的利用或者是說我們國家力量的投射從硬實力拉攏轉向軟實力吸引理念相近的國家這樣部長有認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7942.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7965.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我想有關於那個國際合作或者是國際有關於員外的這個國際合作的話那的確是我們越來越強化那過往都是我們單獨去面對一些友邦的國家但是現在我們有更多的這個和國際的合作能夠強化我們在那個國際員外的這個能量也能夠達到國際社會上面更多的這個協調的這個後果這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7969.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7994.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
其中我們針對這幾年實施的海外替代役過去20年來總共送出了大約有1600位替代役到各友邦的國家協助他們的醫療衛生、農業上面的發展還包括基礎建設還有教育發展等等其實這對拓展台灣的國際形象是不是有不錯的成效呢還有哪些是比較有具體成效的部長可以回答一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7995.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8021.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
非常謝謝委員替代役到海外去服務這件事情的確這個是一個非常好的工作我個人就認識有幾位替代役男到海外去邦交國去從事工作之後他們覺得說這個是非常的有意義他們就留下來持續在國會裡面到海外的技術團去工作甚至是當我們的團長所以這個是我們可以看到他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8023.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8042.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
很多的這些正面的成果那之前還是有一些志工那這些到海外去的這個志工所達成的這個成果也是受到其他國家尤其是我們那個友邦國家的這種讚賞那另外我們還有去跟那個我們台灣很多的這些NGO團體在海外的互相的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8042.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8062.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那另外還有跟其他國家的這個NGO團體比如像我們在那個中東的地方有很多的國家是沒有邦交國那如果說我們要去具體的協助的話就可以透過國際的這些NGO來去進行的協助所以這些都是我們可以想像的到的一些彈性的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8063.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8082.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那像從今年開始國防部已經把一物一的疫情恢復到一年了但是因為少子化的前提下替代役總說還是會持續的下降嘛但是主要是因為國防部把轉服替代役的資格修訂的比較嚴格所以外交的替代役的數量開始可能未來會越來的越少這樣是不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8084.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8096.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
還有外交部未來會不會積極跟國防部爭取外交替代役的緣額呢那部長有沒有期待透過外交替代役的軟實力我們可以來協助外交部如何推動外交工作還有培養外交的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8099.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8118.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個部分我們都會持續跟相關的單位來討論來爭取那過去我們是跟那個內政部的議政署這邊來做討論那我想內政部這邊也認為說替代在海外工作這個是非常有意義的事情所以也都提供名額給我們接下來我們會持續來爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8120.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8126.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
因為據北溪瞭解外交替代役其實這是曾延伸為醫療替代役因為陸續派遣了62名藝人到海外的服務後來醫療因為替代役因為隨著病疫制度的改變醫療替代役開始走入了歷史所以外交替代役在2019年2月開始已經走入歷史了在當年的2月底已經送走最後一批所以當時的衛福部透過新聞稿來發布這個消息表示配合政府醫療外交政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8149.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8168.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
衛福部持續辦理外交部的太平洋六友邦及友國國家的醫療合作計劃每年派遣醫療替代役到友邦國家服務至今好像已經派了62名藝男到海外服務然後醫療替代役大部分都是醫學系畢業的還有醫師身份的藝男然後在這10個月中所以他們會5個月在衛福部受訓剩下5個月到南太平洋友邦的國家服務可能到台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8178.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8190.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
當地的醫療團協助做醫療業務也可能協助當地的公共衛生的宣導因為部長知道本席是醫療藥師的專業背景因為年輕的時候我也是有夢想想要去跟著醫療團到國外去做醫療外交而且那時候是選擇西非因為那時候還有西非的醫療團但是也是希望所以我到了軍醫院也希望政府派駐到落後國家援助可是那個時候西非醫療團並沒有藥師這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8207.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8221.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
所以我覺得他沒有要師所以本席認為醫療替代役不僅其實是讓年輕世代和各國有交流的機會而且在這段海外的服勤的經驗也成為藝人們人生是一個珍貴的資產同時也展現臺灣對全球事務的付出與關懷所以醫療其實是臺灣的強項醫療替代役其實就是外交替代役的延續而且外交替代役最有代表的就是連加恩莫屬了臺灣的醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8236.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8238.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們持續來爭取,我想委員剛剛說的我們都非常的贊成,謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8266.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8281.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好,然後我再請教部長還有國和會有關我國外交替代役申請資格專長中有關醫療方面為什麼缺乏藥師專長呢?請問住外計畫的需求依據什麼標準來制定呢?那我請我們國和會的秘書長來跟委員回答謝謝,謝謝部長跟委員報告這些需求都是住團跟住在國提出的需求就是沒有這個項目有的話我們一定會來徵選 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8297.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8314.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
因為既然我們要做外交了嘛要增加軟實力其實這個我是覺得說除了醫生護理其實透過藥學的國際合作其實這是一個非常重要的一環請外交部可能要特別的重視然後也希望能跟衛福部多溝通啊多爭取我們來注意我們來注意謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8327.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8334.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
昨天伊朗動用大量無人機與巡弋飛彈襲擊以色列的事件,外交部有沒有掌握? |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8335.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8359.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
有,我們都一直在關注而且當我們在立法院的這個時候我們的同仁也都在密切的關注當中好,謝謝那這件事件中是不是因為美國拜登政府拉不住以色列強硬的右翼政府對伊朗駐敘利亞大使館發動攻擊而進行報復性的行動呢?畢竟過去伊朗打的是代理人的戰爭嘛昨天的行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8360.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8366.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
則是伊朗有史以來第一次正面對以色列發動攻擊所以伊朗當局是說報復行動已經結束了但後續情況會不會升級其實這個也很難預測那部長你認為以色列跟伊朗情勢繼續升級可能性會很大嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8377.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8403.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們目前仍然繼續在關注當中那有關於伊朗的部分他們已經對外宣布說他們的行動已經結束那在以色列的境內所造成的傷害也是非常的少那我看美國等等國際社會也都在希望能夠促成那個地方戰爭或者是衝突不要繼續升級那我想我們台灣會繼續密切來關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8406.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8431.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
因為美國前國安顧問布里先斯基在他的著作《大棋盤》一書當中有曾經預言過如果俄羅斯、中國跟伊朗聯手組成反美國聯盟將會形成大陸強權國家挑戰海洋國家世界霸權的局面其實這也是美國最大的國安挑戰近年來其實看起來這三個國家的確是逐漸在往美國前國安顧問 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8432.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8432.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
吳釗燮報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8462.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8464.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
臺灣必須拿捏好自己國家的戰略利益來從事我們國家的外交作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8489.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8499.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
謝謝部長這些都是會直接影響到台灣的國家安全希望外交部必須要好好關注隨時注意掌握國際情勢是好 謝謝部長謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請賴氏寶委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8516.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8520.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請外交部的吳部長請部長賴委員好部長你好這個要先恭喜你嗎是不是你這個原來做國安會秘書長然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8540.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8549.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
來 做外交部長 部長又做完了 呃 做這個 國安會秘書長 嘖 看起來 民進黨執政離不開你欸 永遠需要你欸十項全能的 對啊還是只有一項 外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8557.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8560.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
你今天談的是國際合作你在當外交部長任內大家都知道斷交七國然後財政府的全部斷交九國 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8585.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8588.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
你一直強調實質外交實質外交好我們就希望既然這個邦交國都這樣斷了吧我們希望實質的有意義的參加國際組織CPTPP我給他統計了蔡英文總統只要有機會就講拜託日本啦拜託加拿大啦拜託美國啦幫我們加入CPTPP結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8614.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8620.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
沒有IKEA也沒有WHA除了第一年因為馬英九還在當總統到520卸任那時候林鄭月娥有之外統統沒有這個我請教吳部長你不會覺得很挫折嗎做鬼包我們你剛才你的今天的報告我很認真的看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8644.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8654.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
裏面資乎原則寫很多但是對我來講的話就是什麼東西都不如說我真正的參加國際的組織你要不要講一下我們今年有機會參加WHA嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8662.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8665.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
外界這樣看大家是回應大家引誘前外交部長號稱外交才子的前副說了沒有穩定的兩岸關係就沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8692.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8695.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
臺灣合理的國際空間這句話你同意嗎我想有關於那個外交的國際組織的這個參與那我想委員如果說執著在WHA的這件事情上可能會可能會miss掉很多我們在過去這段時間所參與的這個國際的這個組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8716.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8729.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
委員長過去這一段時間我們有很多的這些國際組織是有一些新的這種可以參與的這種狀況你講一個很重要的好不好你講一個重要的講一個重要的委員要不要聽一聽我們國際組織來跟你講喔你講一個重要的國際組織哪一個我想那個一個一個就好了一個就好了很多啦一個就好了很多啊就講一個就好了就跟你講一個很多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8739.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8766.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
阿跟你講很多很多很多是你也是留學美國的知道Name a few我不用Name a few我Name only one可以阿不然沒有阿我如果講一個的話委員就可以讓我們那個沒有你講一個我就跳到其他題目了好IPECAIPECA是什麼援助民族經貿合作的這個國際組織SWAY HOST |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8768.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8777.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我們台灣跟其他的三個國家共同共組哪三個國家澳洲、加拿大、紐西蘭一起host參加的幾個這個是我們一起組成的國際組織這個是我們一起組成的國際組織只有三個而已就我剛剛講的四個國家你來講三個我講你是host你主持還有加入其他的會員國 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8795.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8800.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
阿就四個國家共同成立的四個阿太久了好啦好啦我提到第二個題目啦齁你講了齁這些東西這些我是都聽不到啦沒關係啦你就說你怎麼說你就說多會大多會大但是老百姓看到的是端交了九國我們很關心的CPTPP |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8815.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8830.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
美國萊豬也吃了日本河豬也吃了加拿大的有可能狂牛症的牛也吃了結果什麼都沒有英國跟我們同時加入申請結果英國有我們沒有你的報告特別寫一個今天報告說要傳達以人為本的核心價值你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8839.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8846.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
馬希奧會習近平說的鼓勵大陸人民來台灣走一走看一看這句話你支持嗎他如果能夠這樣子做的話當然很好啦但是他們那個有關於中國的這個團客他們都還沒有開放欸現在都說不定馬上開放啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8864.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8877.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
他講之後還要再看他做所以我們六月進入進赴日團要不要解禁假如他真的開放了我們要不要解禁請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8879.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8895.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這不是我們外交部的工作喔?沒有啦 你就要接國安會秘書長今天你沒有接國安會秘書長我不會問你這個問題但是我現在還是外交部長的這個身份我會做到最後一天那有關於中國還沒有進那我先問你喔就整個未來我們以外交好了好不好你外交的最高戰略你是親美友日這個都沒問題合宗要不要?對大陸要不要? |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8909.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8938.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我們就是反中抗中我們以整體的國家利益來衡量我們的這個外交政策對中國大陸你要未來解剖秘書長你要繼續的過去抗中還是說現在不太一樣呢那個委員不需要用這種標籤標在我的頭上我在這邊工作一天我就是為了我們台灣的最高的外交的這個利益來做我的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8938.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8958.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好 那你外交 美國國務院跟外交有關係嗎?肯定嘛 是二會請問你要不要肯定那個是錯誤的標題喔 錯誤的標題你如果去看報導的內容國務院講的部分跟那個標題是不一樣的還沒有肯定 沒有肯定 是不是那你站不站 你同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8960.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8976.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
馬錫二輝馬英九搭行的兩岸和平之橋有沒有同意不同意我看到這是中國對我們的這個外交打壓對我們的軍事壓力沒有絲毫的降低外交打壓從盤古開的那顆去打壓啦這是本來這是constant沒有降低兩岸的緊張關係嗎那我把這個講完了很快沒有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8985.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8998.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
有沒有降低兩岸關係我沒有看到那個我們兩岸的這個我跟妳講一段的學者大陸的學者以及大陸的學者以及美國的學者說了說了這一次馬習奧會對於兩岸關係沒有改變對於整個的和平沒有改變但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9013.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9025.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
有效降低大陸內部武統的聲音也就是短期打仗的機會大幅降低這就是馬英九的貢獻了 怎麼不是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9026.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9055.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這人道你不要肯定一下嗎那個有關委員的這個意見的話那我想應該要由社會大眾來看待啦我是說引用美國的學者講的咧所以你都不肯定馬英九這一趟我想有關於沒辦法肯定有關於外交部的部分還是必須要去努力處理外交的這些作為涉及到兩岸的部分這個不是外交的這個工作你要借國安委祕出場了啦不然我就不用你啦最後一句話最後一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9056.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9065.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
馬英九在習近平面前敢講中華民國敢講一中各表習近平在馬英九面前沒有講統一沒有講一國兩制這難道不是馬英九的貢獻嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9071.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9073.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9104.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9107.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
謝謝主席 馬上有請部長林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9113.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9135.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
副委員好部長好2020年我回到了公民社會以後那我們積極的推動反貪腐的運動我成立了一個組織叫做台灣公益階壁及隧道者保護的協會我們在2023年的1月的時候參與了一個非常大的國際反貪腐的計畫叫做OCCRP我們從2013年1月的時候開始參與這個計畫跟來自大概十幾個國家不管是NGO |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9142.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9168.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
還是調查記者的協會包括哥倫比亞大學新聞學院我們共同推出了一個獨裁者的金庫系列調查的報導它裡面事實上最主要指出來的關鍵問題是說卡貝中美洲銀行本來應該是要拿來資助協助我們中美洲那邊地區國家人民的生活但 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9169.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9198.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們的調查系列報導卻顯示他竟然成為獨裁者的金庫他竟然成為獨裁者的金庫好那因為這樣子的關係啊我們非常重要民主同盟的盟友美國非常重要的智庫CSRS他也提出了呼籲要求要求不僅僅是美國政府以及跟美國政府在民主同盟上面的其他的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9198.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9220.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
包括了台灣包括了韓國兩個全部都是卡貝現在非常重要的會員國出資的金額都非常的高台灣現在是卡貝的第一大持股的會員國嘛我的理解沒錯嘛我們認股的金額高達了美金7億超過7億了吧部長我的理解沒有錯嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9229.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9236.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
因此我們提出一個非常重要的呼籲我們在國際社會要交朋友沒有問題但 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9238.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9263.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
台灣納稅人的錢我們去資助中美洲銀行下面的援助計畫是我們希望幫助中美洲那邊各個國家貧困的人民婦女的父權NGO進行有意義的活動我相信台灣的納稅人大家都會支持但當調查報導出來的結果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9265.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9279.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們台灣納稅的錢到卡貝以後卡貝拿來資助的是獨裁的政體我們現在的口號是民主同盟我們要用民主自由人權跟國際社會接軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9282.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9305.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這個概念我非常的同意但我現在的問題是當我們的錢拿去被中美洲銀行去資助獨裁政權的話我們在國際社會的Credibility會遭受到非常嚴重的質疑所以我們重要的盟友美國CSIS非常有名的智庫才會提出這麼誠懇的呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9308.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9316.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
關於這樣子的呼籲外交部在我們資助卡貝的過程當中有沒有什麼具體的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9317.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9317.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
具體的作為是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9342.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9364.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
具體的作為就是說在那個放貸的這個過程當中有更多的這些檢視的措施在我們協會喔去年我回到公民社會以後我們去年公布了調查報告我們的華文版的調查報告跟英文版的調查報告我們是跟我們國際上面合作的組織同步發行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9365.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9387.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
同步發行了以後也引發了我們立法院這邊相關委員的關注包括前時代力量立委陳焦華前民眾黨立委邱承遠都提出這樣子的呼籲說我們經費應該要公開透明國民有知的權利當提出這樣子呼籲的時候部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9388.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9398.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
您在回覆邱承文委員的時候說非常贊成這個要求非常合理我們會在卡貝當中發揮我們的影響力部長您還記得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9399.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9418.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
是的,而且我們也依照這個方向來走好,是不是有依照這個方向來走具體落實的情況是怎麼樣當然要接受檢驗嘛接受檢驗的狀況是說外交部的回覆是合作計畫項目金額都公開於官網研議設立我國基金專區來,我們看實際的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9420.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9433.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我到週末我在準備今天的質詢的時候我上去卡貝的官網還是沒有實質計畫的內容這是怎麼回事我請我們的同仁來說明一下是請市委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9437.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9462.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那就我們之前就是說入股的時候所提供的基金基本上都是經過董事會來做一個公決然後提供給相關的政府這不是我的問題對在董事會裡面我們都有做相關的一個沒有我們現在在講的是資訊的公開透明啊現在官網上面沒有我的問題是為什麼沒有發生什麼事為什麼你們回覆給立法院的答案跟實際上面官網的內容出現不一致的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9463.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9463.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
過去的計畫呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9478.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9507.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
我們到目前為止累積了多少給卡貝援助的金額是不是超過2億美元這個部分是因為當初我們入股所繳的股權基金這個部分是卡貝來統籌運用相關的資訊是公布在卡貝的這個網站上面沒有沒有沒有不是入股基金我們援助的金額不要混淆啦入股金是入股金這我知道嘛就剛講的7億美元嘛200多億台幣嘛現在我在講的是除了入股金以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9507.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9528.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我們另外援助的金額我把它統計出來了超過兩億美金你們已經答應了國會答應了國人要公開透明我到這一次質詢來之前的週末到卡貝的官網還是沒看到所以我才請教部長嘛到底是怎麼回事到底是怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9530.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9547.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
跟委員說明這個有涉及到兩個部分一個部分是卡貝本身的這個方帶那另外一個是我們希望能夠更加透明化的作為就是說提供一個專區就是臺灣中美洲雲南火炭的信託基金那如果有案子的話當然就上網來公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9549.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9555.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
過去原住的金額做了什麼事情可以不公開嗎這是我的問題超過2億美金喔我這樣說好了啦部長請您看下一頁南韓跟卡貝 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9572.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9579.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
所設置的信託基金人家可以有一個平台完整的登載金流以及標案的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9581.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9607.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我們出資的金額比南韓高我們捐的錢比南韓多甚至卡貝在台灣資本市場所募集的資金超過30億美元連卡貝稱讚台灣我們為什麼在101設置卡貝在台北的辦事處因為台灣的資本市場是我們卡貝募資最重要的中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9608.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9631.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我們對卡貝貢獻這麼多結果我們只是很卑微的要求我們給卡貝的錢用到原住哪裡去了這件事情為什麼不能讓國人知道所以剛剛跟委員講我們另外成立一個信託基金那這個信託基金就好我們進一步看台灣愛心捐款給宏都拉斯 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9633.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9648.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
去幫助宏都拉斯需要幫助的人臺灣人民都同意結果臺灣捐贈給宏國新台幣800萬拿去被宏國宏都拉斯的前第一夫人拿去買珠寶這樣對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9651.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9673.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
阿這個在當地的這個法院裡面已經證明說這個不是我們台灣出的錢了不是我們台灣出的錢確定不是我們台灣出的錢不是我們台灣出的錢如果是我們台灣出的錢的話我們早就是被那個媒體爆出來了錢確定不是我們台灣出的阿就不是我們出的阿好下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9674.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9703.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
洪都拉斯之前對我們獅子大開口拒絕金錢外交這我百分之百贊成就是為了錢嘛洪都拉斯想跟中國建交嘛吳部長講得很好我們拒絕增加金援結果我看到媒體報導說該國要求台灣將每年五千萬美元援助加倍他的意思是說本來有五千萬美元但我找了半天的預算書我找不到欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9706.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9713.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
今天時間的關係部長你要回答以前是多少有關於雙方合作計畫的部分有很多不同的合作計畫所以很難說有一個數字來跟委員說不同的計畫把數字加一加就好了這個會很難嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9730.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9751.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
時間的關係因為黃委員大概他詢問的這個部分可能也是國人很想要知道的就這個部分我們希望提供比較具體的一些相關的書面資料給本委員會給黃委員好不好因為今天主席非常感謝你的才事可不可以壓一個時間因為你沒有壓時間部長我們兩個禮拜應該沒有問題吧因為這以前預算都編過嘛兩個禮拜可以齁好謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9761.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9762.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9802.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9802.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10254.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10259.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我們繼續開會接下來請王洪威委員上臺質詢好謝謝主席請田次長還有我們臺灣民主基金會的代理執行長請田次長還有廖廖達齊廖廖代理執行長 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10286.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10310.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
王永元您早市長好還有執行長好很可惜剛才那個因為吳部長他要接待外賓那我們也非常的體貼讓他回去接待外賓但是呢臺灣民主基金會因為在4月10號召開了這個董事會推派了就是我們現在的院長韓國瑜院長擔任董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10311.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10337.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
但是這件事情還留了一個尾巴那最重要的就是執行長的部分那麼其實我們討論過很多因為我們民主基金會的組織章程非常清楚的是白紙黑字寫就是執行長的部分是由董事長來提名經過董事會同意後臨聘之所以我想請教次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10339.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10364.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
因為我也聽到其實吳部長他私下也有談到說因為這個董事長產生之後未來的執行長應該還是要去尊重還是要尊重就是這個現任的董事長尊重韓院長所以我不曉得次長你這邊所了解的是不是我們按照我們的這個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10366.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10383.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
按照張誠來形式的話是不是應該按照張誠是要由董事長來提名經過董事會同意後來派人報告委員這個問題可不可以容許民主基金會的代理執行長回答他可能比較清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10385.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10406.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
所以您不能回答這事情,完全不曉得民主基金會的運作嗎?民主基金會是一個獨立的機關,那麼過去的運作呢,外交部在這方面沒有做直接的涉入由他自己一個董事會來做很多裡面的任免,都是董事會經過董事會,而且董事的投票決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10408.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10413.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我先請一下我們的代理執行長根據您所了解的狀況因為4月10號由您來做代理執行長照理說現任執行長的職務應該在6月16號結束所以應該在6月17號之前產生新的執行長 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10431.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10449.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
先謝謝委員的問題也謝謝委員的問候我們的章程依照我們的章程是6月16號現任的這一屆第7屆董監事人員包括執行長的任期因為執行長其實已經辭職了就結束所以其實下一屆的董事會是在6月16號之後開 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10452.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10479.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
因為這一屆還沒有完成但我們在上次4月10號的董監事會裡面已經產生了下一屆的董監事的名單但是因為我們基金會照章程有兩席是來自行政方一個叫做總統府秘書長一個叫外交部長那必須等到520以後這個人事確定然後整個任期第7屆的任期是到6月16號才完全截止所以第8屆的第一次是6月16號以後召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10482.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10484.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
在6月17日以後召開的第8屆第一次董事會才由董事長來提名執行長的任選 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10495.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10517.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
所以應該按照這個期程的話應該是在6月17號召開新的6月17號以後就是時間要看董事長的時間而定所以在這次等於說520之前是不會再召開董事會了不會不會再召開董事會也不會決定新的執行長的人選是 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10519.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10526.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
目前是不會的那所以到時候啊別說我現在聽到一種說法事實上吳釗燮部長因為他自己反正也要離開部長的位子了那麼基本上呢他也不想再糾纏的他也認為就是應該可以讓這個未來的董事長來決議可是我們現在又擔心啊因為他不當外交部長了那可能新任的外交部長現在是現在反正說內定是林佳龍嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10547.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10553.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
本來黃雲林執行長原來也是他的人所以確實有可能在520之後執行長的人士還是有可能彼此的角力還是沒有辦法確定是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10566.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10578.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
對不起委員我真的得跟您抱歉第一我是代理的第二個呢剛才到我們的次長所說我們其實是一個雖然是獨立機關但是我們是外交部全部出資那人事問題呢我們就像是一般政府的一個下級單位我們人事問題真的是無權制衛那這完全是上面這個到時候總統府秘書長還有這個外交部長來決定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10596.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10615.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
照章程上,我們如果白紙黑字的章程就是由董事長提名,經董事會同意。所以代理執行長應該也同意我的看法,應該按照章程來行事,對不對?我們算是官僚體系,我們一切照著章程走,我們依法行政。 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10616.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10629.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
因為我剩下一點點時間我想請教一下次長雖然次長沒有直接來監督民主基金會但是按照政府機關是不是應該按照組織章程來行事 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10631.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10658.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
一般來說如果說有例子會按照例子一般要不然就按照章程來走我想一般大概都是用這兩個方式去進行的然後過去民主基金會都進行的非常的順利也充分的發揮了民主基金會這個智庫的功能所以我們覺得這個我們還是按照章程也好按照他的潛力都可以這兩個方法我覺得都是可以做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10659.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10665.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
不過基本上張誠要優於潛力吧對不對是不是您同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10666.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10671.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那要看看你這個組織的文化有它的傳統這個方面我們要予以尊重我覺得次長這個太外交辭令了在這邊因為你們現在正在交接期間可能會產生新任的外交部長那我是覺得這件事情民主基金會他如果還要他的執行長的人士還要在跨越520之後然後還要成為一個政治角力 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10692.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10709.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
其實我覺得反而不利於民主基金會的一個運作啦我相信代理執行長會把他代理得很好但是呢在最後這個新就任未來這個民主基金會也有新任的這個整個的包含董堅是執行長的上任應該還是要讓他去順順的去做而不是繼續的要去卡誰或者要架空誰好不好這樣的一個這個原則應該還是要這個底線要守住的 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10722.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10725.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
中嘉賓委員不在,請劉許廷委員上台質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10752.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10766.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
委員您早今天我們要討論國際合作發展是不是請次長先跟大家說一下我們的國際合作的理念是哪八個字互助互惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10768.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10794.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
然後是踏實外交踏實外交互助互惠OK 非常好那我們新南向政策的核心理念是什麼新南向有四個最重要的支柱一個是人才的交流資源共享經濟的發展然後一種區域的鏈結大概是以這個四個這是你的政策目標嗎但是核心理念是什麼跟剛剛那個很像 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10795.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10818.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
就是把台灣目前認為能夠協助一些國家的我們的優點跟他們一起的合作因為這個沒有寫在工作報告裡所以我不為難你新南向政策的核心理念叫做長期深耕多元開展雙向互惠所以跟你這個國際合作的理念的踏實外交互惠互助其實概念是完全流通的 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10819.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10846.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那今天就針對這個事情來做一下討論喔因為我在你報告第三頁裡面有看到說建構這個強化夥伴國的這個糧食安全體系那我就有一點小的疑問在這裡啦因為你除了有講說太平洋島國這些你做農糧的這個糧食安全協助這個本席願意理解而且跟我們有邦交嘛對不對但西南向的國家比如說印尼、泰國、菲律賓、越南也有執行所謂糧食安全相關計畫但就本席的理解他們本身就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10846.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10871.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
相對來講在農糧上面就有一定的競爭優勢那這個我們有什麼好協助人家的嗎這幾個雖然也是國土非常的大但是他的農業基本上還是比較初級的農業那麼台灣你也曉得台灣從農業發展為工業然後現在是高科技所以我們農業的人才跟農業的科技方面其實是蠻強的 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10872.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10896.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那麼我們現在辦了什麼事情呢我們把我們的農業技術技術源外然後把他的農業人才帶來台灣學習我們有親農的合作比如說印尼啊菲律賓我們在技術源外的時候我們投入了多少資源你說是就針對新南向國家對你當然可以做個量化嘛你可能有補助案啊或怎麼樣我們投入了多少資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10898.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10922.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
就是以前的數字嗎?對,對,對,用量化的,因為時間比較有限嘛,因為講,我們就沒有辦法做一個聚焦了。眼下沒有是不是?好,沒有關係,我不為難你,這做一下統計啦,做一下統計。那麼,從回到我們的政策核心精神,也就是說雙向互惠,還有你國際合作的互惠互動的理念,相對來講,這些新南向國家回饋給我們的是哪些東西? |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10923.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10951.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
新南向國家現在給我們的比如說我舉個例子來說好了我覺得像菲律賓向越南向印尼向泰國這些國家呢那些的勞工回到台灣他們來協助台灣在這方面的建築一共有將近有80萬個外勞這是第一點移工對台灣的建設我相信是有非常大的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10952.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10968.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
第2個事實上在國際上面他們也某種程度的支持台灣他們也一再的宣稱比如說菲律賓的總統一再宣稱台海的安全跟穩定是非常非常重要我覺得這個部分我覺得也非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10969.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10991.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這兩件事我們就來深入討論第一個移工的部分顯然在新南向政策之前我們就有很多的移工吧對不對所以這個東西你要講它這個成果好像有一點點不大大調因為你前面有講說互惠互惠我們要看到說我推動這個政策之後因為這個政策加碼的東西但是移工本來就有長期的合作某些層面它也是一個相關相對運行成熟的產業鏈所以這種說法我是覺得有一點點站不住腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10992.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11013.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
那第二個當然次長你有講到我我正要問的就比較深水區的部分也就是說我們在技術援外的過程中能不能換到也許也許政治有點困難因為深水區啊但是我們總要看到一些進展對不對你剛講你舉個例子叫菲律賓的杜特蒂的這個個人的發言當然這畢竟只是一環而且本席一向問外交政策我不喜歡問宣誓的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11015.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11039.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我就講我們都要踏實外交了我們當然要問實質的東西比如說我們花了這麼多的資源雖然現在資料沒有到位但是花了這麼多資源去協助新南向國家做農業的國際合作開發可是看起來在政治上面這些國家對我們並沒有比較友善有比較友善嗎?市長你覺得比較友善嗎?有,基本上是有那麼我跟委員報告一下我們員外的東西我們不是說交換的 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11041.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11042.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
現在這些受我們協助的印尼、泰國、菲律賓、越南他們會不會支持我們加入CPTPP? |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11065.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11084.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
他們絕對不會反對因為我們現在是已經符合加入CPTPP的規則高規格的那麼他們對我們加入CPTPP的都是持正面的看法但會不會具體的那個他們如果受到中國大陸的壓力的時候會不會矩度會不會轉彎 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11085.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11104.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
中國的壓力無所不在這一點我必須先說那麼我們是在這個壓力之下怎麼樣跟他進行對台灣有利的事情我們做一個釐清第一個他們會不會加入協助我們加入CPTV第二個最近我們吳部長雖然他去接待外賓去他有講泰國人免簽的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11105.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11131.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
他們當然是因為疫後經濟促進觀光有一個短期的開放那我們當然希望免簽是一個好的事情嘛這種實質的外交成果有沒有因為這樣子的合作他可以延長應該沒有問題沒有問題齁在泰國的應該是是正面的看法是正面的看法好第三個最近我們要去那個世界台商大會我們江副院長據說也是受到一個政治壓力就簽證遇到的問題啊你看這個也是國家也是越南 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11132.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11147.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
越南也是我們這個國際合作協助的對象可是協助好像沒有換到政治上的一些支持本身覺得有點可惜啦所以我要求因為今天時間到了啦我要求這個部裡面可能做一下我剛剛問嘛新南向我們一共在這些國家裡面投入了多少資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11148.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11149.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
接下來請侯孟楷委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11184.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11186.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
主席謝謝麻煩請田次長請田次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11194.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11221.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
好,田次長早我想外交工作是非常的繁重但是也是需要細膩那本期其實今天準備很多資料因為我本來想說是最後一次可以質詢我們的吳釗燮部長沒想到吳釗燮部長就11點已經離開但是細膩的部分我覺得還是有必要說清楚如果說次長沒有辦法回答不用硬回答但是我們要先要求是說應該真的要說明清楚為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11222.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11237.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
因為大家會看到這兩個多月的時間其實民主基金會這個事情明明本來無一事何處惹塵埃本來就有慣例就一慣例有組織章程就一組織章程就沒有想到會讓大家外界覺得是說好像故意針對韓國瑜院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11239.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11264.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
是要把韓國瑜院長的這個明明章程相關的規定讓院長來擔任董事長並且由董事長指派執行長來對於董事會負責就沒有想到搞得沸沸揚揚當然現在看起來是往一個比較正向的方向可是我想請教到底這一次本來有講到說4月10號要開會民主基金會突然發一個函給 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11265.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11285.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
各界給董事給韓院長說4月10號開會那媒體就講說4月10號沒有啊明明韓國院長當天有排定要接訪外賓啊那後來才又改成說4月17號那韓國院長也說沒有辦法出席因為他已經有既定的行程那吳釗燮部長被受訪的時候講到還原他居然講是說4月2號 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11287.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11306.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
有跟韓院長來報告那我想請教就本席也了解當天4月2號跟韓院長報告的時候並沒有講說什麼時候要開會是尊重院長的行程並且說之後再會詢問院長的行程可能方便的時間再訂令開會時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11308.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11329.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
有沒有這個事情?謝謝委員你剛剛給我說不用硬回答有沒有同仁了解秘書4月2號陪同部長去見院長的有沒有?報委員我在場好你在場4月2號吳釗燮部長有沒有跟院長訂定哪一天開會?有 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11330.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11357.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那院長有說他4月2號那一天你講清楚喔因為這個是本席得到的訊息本席也去做了解4月2號那一天你跟院長是怎麼講就是我們要舉行就是那有說要4月10號開會嗎有有說4月10號開會那院長怎麼說院長已經有公開的外賓的行程喔所以說他說他沒有辦法參加那沒有辦法參加那為什麼會發出4月10號開會的通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11360.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11381.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
因為根據這個財團法人法我們必須要還有我們這個民主基金會的章程我們在4月16號以前也就是說下一屆的董事上任之前的兩個月我們要選舉要推選新的董事所以那個時間包括財團法人法所規定的這個決算 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11382.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11389.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
要送出去的時間都不需要都需要在4月15號之前所以說要開會嘛但是當4月2號來重點來囉當4月2號部長拜訪院長的時候跟院長請教說4月10號開會好不好的時候院長已經在當天4月2號的會議明白的跟部長講說當天他已經排定了外交這個外賓接待行程 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11407.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11434.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
然後你們還硬開會硬發開會通知當時本席的理解本席得到的資訊是說已經有表達4月10號院長沒有辦法出席了那你們講說回去會再演繹你們沒有講是說一定4月10號開會喔沒想到拜會完之後不到一個小時的時間就發出了開會通知你是不尊重院長還是不尊重還是你們不理解還是不尊重外賓 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11435.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11454.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
跟委員報告就是開會通知在事前有送到院長室那可能院長還沒有看到可是在部長跟院長報告的時候所以你們在4月來來來好好說清楚喔既然你在場非常好4月2號去拜會院長之前你們就已經確定了4月10號開會是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11457.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11485.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
因為院長的行程非常的忙他還有院會要主持你只要回答本席這個問題4月2號拜訪的時候就已經確定4月10號開會不管院長有沒有空你們都沒有徵詢你們就已經先訂定了4月10號開會是不是院長的時間其實可以容許的太少了那我們這個時間4月10號其實事實上扣除院會的時候每一個人沒有義務跟必要就像本席在之前也沒有看過說民主基金會原來4月15號以前要關帳啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11487.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11511.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那你怎麼可以講說是因為院長可以永續的時間太少所以我就不用問你了我4月2號跟你拜會之前我就已經先發了4月10號的開會我不管你能不能來 反正我就是開會那這樣不就是不尊重人嗎院長自己可以決定啦院長是民主基金會的當然董事來這位對不起請教您是我是NGO國際事務會陳剛毅好 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11514.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11533.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
陳執行長我們尊重院長陳執行長你完全不尊重院長剛剛本席這樣子詢答你完全不尊重院長第一4月2號部長去拜會院長之前就已經確定4月10號要開會你剛剛講是說院長可能有收到開會通知但是他沒看 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11534.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11559.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那就代表是說你們在4月2號敗會之前已經確定了4月10號而沒有先跟院長辦公室確認說當天到底院長能不能來或是即便院長已經排了外賓的接待行程你們還是一樣要排4月10號這個時間是民主基金會跟院長室那邊也有那院長室就已經跟你講是說他有外賓接待啦那現在是怎樣又要推給民主基金會 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11560.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11567.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
能不能有一點點尬子再來當4月10號說外賓接待沒有辦法之後到最後你們又改成4月17才開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11570.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11571.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那為什麼還要再發開會通知?為什麼還沒有辦法改?不就是不尊重人嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11595.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11617.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個時間的過程其實事實上都有跟院長是在協調是不是本席講得非常清楚陳執行長我想今天我只是要做一個釐清跟大家外界再做一次說明利用這次的質詢時間把所有的時間序一五一十的說明清楚這是本席得到的資訊我想院長辦公室可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11620.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11638.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
認為說還是體恤我們的行政同仁但是該說的話或是正確的資訊我們還是要讓外界知道這才是真相而如果說連一個是董事長的人選當天要推派董事會要推派董事長董事長人選都可以那麼不尊重的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11638.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11667.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
那我真的覺得我們的行政體系也未免太看輕院長這個職務了吧是不尊重國會不尊重民主基金會還是不尊重韓院長我想大可不必這種政治操作再次強調中華民國的處境我們都知道不容易這是為什麼本席在上任的時候每一每都把青天白日滿地紅的國旗別在左胸就是時時刻刻警惕自己我除了是新北市第一選區的立法委員我還是中華民國的立法委員但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11668.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11690.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
各位外交官們大家在外面打拼我們都尊重我們也給予最大的協助可是如果說回到國內要用政治意識形態明明是院長兼任董事長就是慣例明明是董事長指派執行長這個是組織章程明確規定的都還有這樣子要卡的話那很抱歉要玩政治遊戲 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11692.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11693.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
接下來請張七楷委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11726.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11727.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11738.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11766.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那個本市有去清查這個所有的部會在外面租辦公室的發現外交部這個外管的這個租金啊居高不下差不多最近這十幾年差不多都超過十億超過十億今年稍微低一點點還有九億五千四百八十三萬那重要的是不只這是民脂民膏新界部審計部每一年在決算報告都提到這個這問題為什麼沒辦法解決為什麼一直都居高不下呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11768.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11788.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我回答嗎?報告委員,這個住外我們現在幾乎有110個單位,那麼我們當初去設這個館的時候呢,我們做過很好的評估,怎麼樣比較合算,有做過,租好還是買好,這是第一點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11789.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11803.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
第二點呢當你要去買一個管社的時候你要做一個長期的評估第一個要注意到他的國家的政局穩不穩我們也碰到過買了管社然後斷交的事情這個是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11804.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11831.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
還被移交到中國那種所以我們不願意再做這種事情但是呢在某些國家我們認為我們的關係可以長久的維持而且增進所以這些管束是我們第一的目標市長對啦絕大部分一定都是長期持有嘛尤其現在是高通棚這個時代對不對對啊房價一直漲你做一個辦公室一直去那你如果長久要持有當然一定要是買嘛所以我看到有一個辦法2018年 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11834.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11851.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
你們還提出一個住外會館的要嘛就是買要嘛就是建的一個清單出來我今天要請教也是要幫人民看緊的合法治療問第一個審計部每一年都已經提要你們趕快買趕快建對不對2018年自己又提了一個清單阿為什麼執行力這麼差呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11852.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11853.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
市長我懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11881.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11909.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
抱歉抱歉我知道你們有在努力我現在知道你要跟全國民眾講兩個事情你們做了什麼努力還買不到還是見不到我剛回藍燈來嘛我跟這個馬偉很多這個草野的立委都去我們一外面去看我們的台商一外面我們去的看了我們這個駐越南的台南台北的這個經濟文化辦事處他們就很羨慕啊他剛出門去看第一個我們的辦公處所確實擁擠了一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11911.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11935.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我們大家住外怎麼那麼辛苦本來就應該給他一個好一點的這個辦公的這個出手然後他講欸這個租金很貴欸說一個月差不多要五萬塊的租金這是一年就多少錢八萬啊那天我們更有一點心裡有一點被撞擊的感覺我們就居高臨下看了有一塊地正在整美國的這個大使館欸開始在起啊結果我們居無定所啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11936.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11949.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我現在要問你的是兩件事情為什麼我們到現在都買不到到底是在出什麼事這是第一點嘛那第一個你那個完整的解決方案啊你在2018年都已經準備要去買要去建了啊你這個執行率就變太差了啊浪費了人民的納稅錢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11951.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11972.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
因為整個這個房地產的價格也受到了一些波動當初所設定的價錢可能趕不上這個房價的上升這是第一點市長如果是有上升這個我們這個追加外交部我相信外交部跟主技術行政院都會支持阿是是是對不對這是我們既定的政策嘛現在問題是出地為什麼買不到阿一定有兩個問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11974.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11981.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
有碰到困難,或者是我們的執行力太差嘛,就跟這兩個娘...報告委員,這個錢的問題,我請主計長來跟您報告好不好?好,來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11986.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12006.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
謝謝委員支持我們外交部的預算也請委員幫我們多美言幾句因為我們的租金除了剛剛委員剛剛提的那個問題外受到匯率嚴重的影響像我剛剛跟委員報告我們現在目前的美金的匯率已經漲到32.4左右我剛剛也在看那個台灣銀行的匯率 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12006.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12032.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
但是我們預算的匯率這樣今年113我們的預算匯率只有30.452所以我們受到匯的影響導致我們的駐外機構經費嚴重的不足所以請委員多多幫支持我們的預算其實我們外交部的人員跟主席都很優秀啦我知道就是一定有很多變局嘛我今天只是要清楚就是說要知道執行率確實是低的那有什麼困難你們要趕快講好不好我們也看一下有成功的個案啊我一查你看駐泰國辦事處1800萬人買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12035.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12044.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
買完以後到現在,你看他幾年時間,已經升一頁了,每一年的租金都是2000多萬欸我剛才講的,你外人也接近2000萬啊,趕快去解決這個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12046.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12048.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
林佳龍要來當你們部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12074.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12091.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
他當然他的政治資歷是優秀的啦,很完整,總統會的秘書你也知道,還有社會高中部長,新聞局長可是他是不是第一個外交部,第一個外交部長沒有當過沒有外交經驗的,你會煩惱嗎?幫他補強一下報告委員,你剛才我答案已經告訴你,我沒有辦法回答這個問題,太敏感了 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12099.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12105.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
好吧,那這個題目留著等吳釗燮部長回來,他去接見外賓嘛,等會兒再請教他好,謝謝,謝謝委員,謝謝好,謝謝接下來,請徐巧欣委員上台質詢謝謝主席,我想我們請次長,請田次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12132.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12159.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
委員長早安市長我們對於新南向政策裡面其中最主要的一環應該是要吸引這個更多的外國旅客對吧是那同時我們也希望說透過新南向的政策可以增加我國旅客到新南向國家的旅遊的便利性這您認同嗎確實所以我們也要注意到國家之間的對等尊嚴的問題以及對我國國民的公平性 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12160.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12169.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
呃... |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12170.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12174.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
在新南向的18個國家裡面只有4個國家是給予我國完全的免簽待遇但是我國對其他的13個國家是有簽與免簽或是條件免簽的比方說我們可以看到圖上我都幫您整理好了除了紐澳新泰之外的9國我們都給予有條件的免簽 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12200.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12217.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
但是他們還需要我們要有國民的簽證所以像有一些國家我們其實比如說像印度好了我們2017年開始有條件的免簽可是對方如果我們要去印度的時候還需要有像印度臺北協會申辦相關的簽證印尼來講也是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12222.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12246.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
2017年開始我們有條件的免簽還有旅行團的簽證可是印尼的政府在2023年的6月7號頒布的行政命令上面就寫到暫停給予包含我國在內的159個國家免簽證的待遇越南的話是電子簽證那緬甸等等的你可以自己看上面可以看得出來是對於這些新南向國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12246.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12248.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
市長,你怎麼看這件事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12262.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12288.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
爭取這個國際間的尊嚴跟對等一直是我們外交部最重要的工作之一那麼簽證的問題也是一個主權的行使我們之所以給這些國家一些免簽基本上是我們要需要這些觀光客能夠利用免簽的方法多吸引觀光客多吸引學生多吸引商務客到台灣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12289.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12314.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
那麼他們相對的給予我們並沒有跟我們相對的待遇這也是我們一直積極去爭取那麼如果說我們把時間再倒回幾年前那麼有條件的免錢他可能都沒有給我們事實上我們也爭取了相當多的國家有條件的給我們免錢但是看起來一步一步再往前走這個我肯定但是目前看起來做的還不夠多 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12314.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12337.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
因為呢像先前這個跟外交部沒有關係我只是講一下像是兩岸之間的觀光兩岸之間的觀光當時包含旅行團的開放與否交通部長陸委會他們的說法就是因為對方沒有開放旅行團要來台灣所以我們也不開放過去他們認為這是一個對等尊嚴雖然兩岸是兩岸外交是外交可是如果我們用同樣的邏輯看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12338.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12355.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那當對方沒有給我們免簽的時候我們卻給予對方免簽這可能也有涉及到我國主權跟我國尊嚴的問題所以我們希望在這個部分外交部可以更積極努力的去爭取否則就會發生這樣子的情況就像是呢世界台商總會 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12356.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12377.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我們外交國防委員會到越南河內舉行會議跟活動的時候新聞就報導中共伸手干預那包含是連江啟臣副院長的簽證也拿不到那所以沒有辦法率團赴越南那我們這裡外交部有表示會抗議對吧那抗議了4天以後請問得到回覆了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12379.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12392.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我們除了在那邊在當地跟他們抗議以外呢我們在國內也會找他們的駐台的代表來那先前就講說抗議了嗎那抗議我們已經抗議了嗎我先確認一下我們已經抗議我們已經抗議了那對方給我們回覆了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12395.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12409.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我先利用這個機會先要謝謝各位委員這個時候去了越南雖然江啟臣跟徐家青沒有辦法去但是這個結果在我們臺商會跟我們代表處的努力之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12410.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12424.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我是說他的壓力相當相當的大從來沒有過這麼大的壓力但是我們的結果我們該爭取的還是爭取的一些所以我覺得我們在這個案子上雖然我們沒有100% |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12425.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12443.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這是我們應該做的事情,我也很支持外交部這樣的態度,但是因為國人都很關注,所以我想要詢問在我們抗議之後,請問越南對於我方的抗議給出了是什麼樣的一個回覆? |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12445.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12465.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
目前越南當然我們意識已經表達了我們要等一看越南怎麼樣恢復我們這是第一點所以我還沒確定說這四天是沒有收到對方針對我方表達的抗議做出答覆的在某種程度越南的一些的中級的官員他已經來參加我們這個世盟我想你們都看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12466.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12484.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我知道,我就是覺得我沒有要批評外交部的意思,但我想知道在目前,就我們就事論事嘛,今天既然江啟臣副院長他帶要率團出去的簽證,還有包含是中華民國國旗等等滋養到遭到刪除,我們很生氣,外交部也按照你們職責應該做的去表達抗議了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12486.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12504.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那我覺得要讓國人知道說那越南官方外交部門對於這件事情的回復態度如何如果他到現在都還沒有進行任何回復的話那我方後續有沒有要再進一步的去處理還是他們這幾天反正也沒有回復事情過了就算了我要問的是這個方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12505.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12522.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我利用這機會跟委員報告,我們跟越南的一些合作的計畫,因為這個案子我們做某種程度的處理,我現在不方便跟您細說,如果您要知道我可以到您的辦公室跟您報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12525.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12554.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我們做了一些調整讓他們知道他們的動作其實並不是我們所樂見的那麼越南官方的反應到目前我們並沒有看到我們後續還會再進一步要求嗎大概在什麼時候可以跟您確認一下我們的規劃是什麼嗎我們給他的工作我們已經做一些處理了現在看這個壓力會不會他們回來看看他怎麼樣處理他們的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12556.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12579.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
所以就是說我們後續因為沒有收到回覆所以我們會再度的針對此事來進行抗議那後續如果越南有回覆的話那也希望你們能夠把越南的回覆公開讓全民知道因為我相信外交部對於我國的包含國旗部會等等的字樣院長副院長的這個簽證做的努力應該要讓國人能夠知道這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12581.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12583.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我必須跟委員報告這個事情因為越南也受到很大的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12598.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12622.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
他也是很大壓力今天是我們必須要為國家去爭取那抗議了嘛那你不能說因為對方好像在大街上面然後有點是羞辱到我們的中華民國結果小巷道歉這個我們當然是不能我們不能接受他可以選擇這麼做就越南可以選擇私下默默的說不好意思但是我們不能同意對方只是默默的說不好意思這是兩者之間的區別 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12624.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12643.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
如果對方每次都用這種方式對待我們那他們受到壓力的時候又摸摸鼻子我們也就接受了的話那當然不能嘛你也知道當然不能我也相信外交部的立場是如此所以我希望你們要針對這個事情要堅持那我們都會做外交部的後盾來支持中華民國的主權市長可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12644.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12663.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
是謝謝那接下來要再問一下也是新南向政策的免簽部分國人也非常關心這幾年到泰國旅遊的人非常的多那根據泰國旅遊觀光協會統計臺灣旅客到泰國旅遊平均會待5.9天每個人花費大概3萬元的泰銖臺灣旅客過去去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12666.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12666.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
大家私下是講出正面 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12693.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12707.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
這個案子其實我們老早注意這個期限已經快到了真的快到了我們已經去洽談了已經去洽談了那目前的狀況情況是怎麼樣的可不可以跟大家說明一下因為他們泰國還沒有發布我們不好提前發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12708.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12708.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
應該是相當正面的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12736.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12739.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
相當正面的發展謝謝次長接下來請羅明財委員羅明財委員不在請徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在請李坤澤李坤澤委員不在請何欣淳何欣淳委員不在請蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12761.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12789.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
我們今天已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有陳永康委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報請相關機關以書面於兩週內答覆本日委員口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者也請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供委員另有指定期限者從其所定 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12790.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12792.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
本日會議到此結束 散會 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12817.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12818.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
法定人數不足 |