| IVOD_ID |
158083 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158083 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-11 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-11T09:30:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-11T09:51:25+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7bc6073edac3146d9b99c9ea188caaf07bc0e35bc25a01cc6c4eb63eeb90e6147a999415d811f7405ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃珊珊 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:30:27 - 09:51:25 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名張文貞、姚立明、何賴傑、陳運財、王碧芳、廖福特、劉靜怡7位為司法院大法官，並以張文貞為院長、姚立明為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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謝謝主席我想請何教授請何教授發言教授早我想剛剛洪孟凱委員已經問了很多有關死刑的問題那我想簡單的問您對死刑的看法因為您是刑事專業 |
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30.694 |
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基本上我從以前到現在我的態度一直沒有變我是反對死刑反對死刑跟被處死刑我認為還是有一些不同也就是說身為一個資深的刑事法的研究學者以學者的身份我反對死刑當然這個反對死刑我認為是有一些學理上以及實際上的一些考慮所以你對這一次的憲判制 |
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59.298 |
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教授我們就來討論一下我想 |
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重點是憲法法院的判決將來影響的是整個立法的層次最重要的是司法到底要積極的來參與所謂的立法還是要尊重立法形成的自由這是我想跟您探討主要就是中華民國開國以來相關的憲法解釋大部分會做的幾個東西第一個是如果要違憲宣告會做定期失效或立刻失效甚至限期修法 |
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117.941 |
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但是很少用解釋取代立法也就是說最新法定主義必須要相關的構成要件該當構成要件明確但是刑事訴訟法針對法院裁量的自由有一定的所謂尊重跟所謂的自由行政對吧對但這一次我們就講很簡單的2002年那時候的通姦罪 |
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146.619 |
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當法官解釋認為應該要尊重立法機關的斟酌18年後的2020年791號解釋認為通姦罪違憲也就是我們的憲法法庭也與時俱進從後解釋推翻了前面的解釋這是一個憲法法庭他自己做了不同解釋的狀況但是 |
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170.745 |
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但是這是一個後解釋推翻前解釋所以解釋是可以被推翻的吧也就是說這是一個曾經自己解釋過自己推翻的案子第二個同婚同婚的解釋在748號認為說中華民國的法律裡面如果沒有給予同婚相關的規範就直接適用民法甚至 |
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你兩年之內不修法．就沒有別的解釋．就是我的解釋就代替立法．第三個就是這一次的．113年的憲判八號．死刑是不是違憲．不違憲．但是死刑的判決要增加了．幾乎八九個世界級困難度高的要件．所以我想問一下． |
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222.386 |
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身為學者你剛說你反對死刑這個我覺得是個人價值判斷但是我們用解釋取代立法你認為這在憲法法院或者是全世界的立法例上有這樣的方法嗎解釋代替立法侵犯的是立法權 |
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242.308 |
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對於憲法法庭：或者是過去的大法官解釋：其實他們在具體解釋的時候：當然每一個階段：他會有每一個階段不同的考量是 院長我只講一個剛講的立法形成自由是憲法法庭要尊重的所以現在是立法權如果我們今天要判這麼多您是刑事訴訟法的專家如果這麼多的要件是不是應該規範在刑事訴訟法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
269.776 |
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294.926 |
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是不是應該用修法的方式來把剛剛講的大法官解釋那麼多的要件修到我們的刑事訴訟法而不是用解釋取代立法這才是我今天要說的是如果您是大法官您接受這樣的方式嗎而不是你獻旗說我要怎麼修從英國、紐西蘭、澳洲、新加坡甚至認為憲法解釋不可以侵害立法權 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
296.343 |
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306.433 |
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另外日本認為．國會只能要求行政機關去修法．國會不能強加所謂的立法內容給國會．你的意見呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
307.438 |
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309.979 |
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他想要找另外一個理由實質廢死但是我要講說我們今天講的是法律人我們站在這裡 |
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327.149 |
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354.546 |
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這些要件是不是應該修到刑事訴訟法裡面當然我認為最根本的還是以法因為立法者透過實定法你才有辦法所以我現在要問您的是您要當大法官還是要當大立法官您要當的是大法官還是要當立法官當然那是大法官被提名的人當然是以大法官的職位做為未來的官角應該要尊重立法形成自由這樣的權限吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
355.25 |
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尊重但他應該會有一個限度也就是說立法在針對某一些個別的情況下不能夠侵害立法權立法權你可以說他違反一些相關東西要求他限期修法但不可以把所謂的解釋代替立法這是我個人的立場我認為新任的大法官要有這樣的態度否則將來的 |
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381.121 |
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392.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
大法官就直接當立法委員就好啦不需要立法院啦因為立法院寫的任何法律大法官另外寫要件就可以了不需要任何進到法律這是國家非常非常嚴重的危機啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
393.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
416.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這最嚴重的事還侵害到司法院．包括剛剛講的法官的裁量自由．法官裁量自由．就像您剛說．要在各案裡面一一的認定．不可以用一個要件．要求我們所有的法官．要所一致決的方式．這在任何國家都不可能達到．包括您留學的德國．目前只有一個叫做美國的． |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
417.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
435.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
陪審團要一致決但他對不起那也不是最終判決我們現在是一二三審都要一致決這件事情已經侵害立法權第二個所有的要件沒有修到行事適用程序裡面就不應該處理我要再問您的是如果您是大法官您會用後解釋推翻前解釋嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
437.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
437.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個我可以接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
462.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
基本上我對司法的功能我有我一定的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
486.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
504.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我不認為司法在這種情況下應該要針對所謂國家憲政機關的權限大力的或者是過度的去介入也就是說也許在司法的這個功能上面到底是要用積極的方式或者消極的方式這個是可以討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
533.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以尊重立法形成自由尊重國會民意的基礎後解釋推翻前解釋如果前解釋有問題就像剛剛通姦罪的部分他是應該被修正的也就是說新的大法官要有新的想法好接下來我想問一下何教授對於18歲公民權我看到您的報告裡面說您在1978年進入台大法律系18歲的時候我跟你都在念台大法律系 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
534.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
548.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以你覺得18歲的年輕人有沒有行使選舉權的能力這個我支持啊18歲其實應該有公民權這個我是支持啊對但是現在的問題喔民法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
550.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
578.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
陳蓮已經修到18歲了但是憲法跟不上因為憲法必須要經過修憲那這個案子呢我想也是幾乎是臺灣立法院唯一高度共識的案件在2022年我們針對108票全票通過的18歲公民權但是只有564萬的公民投票低於所謂的半數962萬票覆決失敗所以修憲不成 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
579.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
593.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
修憲不成的原因是因為憲法修憲門檻太高這個修憲門檻您覺得以現在目前的台灣社會這樣的法案都不可能覆決成功你覺得台灣還有修憲的可能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
595.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
609.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如果以憲法增修條文12條所定的這麼高的這種門檻公民復決的門檻我個人非常悲觀的認為也就是修憲這條路你認為那我們要怎麼樣去把這個門檻的問題解決這是我們現在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
616.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
644.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
現在的政務次應該說政務委員林明熙叫政委他曾經在臺大法律系的時候主張過一件事因為我們曾經發生過國大代表自肥案用修憲給自己很多的福利所以我們用憲法解釋宣告自肥案違憲也就是說修憲的人修了一個違反憲法原則的部分我們可以用解釋去 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
646.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
669.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
同樣的剛剛講你也認為這個門檻過高這是不是也是當年的國大代表做了一些奇怪的法案奇怪的決定造成了影響到公民行使投票權這樣子的憲法權利你了解我的意思嗎我知道也就是說如果這麼高的修憲門檻可不可以用釋憲來解釋它違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
673.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
695.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我個人的看法我知道我知道國內有一些憲法學者是覺得我們憲法增修條文第12條那個門檻高到了實際上根本很很不可能有修憲所以我要問的是您的態度是如果人民來申請您是大法官你會贊成用修憲用釋憲的方式把這個修憲門檻宣告他違憲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
699.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
705.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
如果要這樣做我的疑慮會是如果你今天把這個12條違憲那接下來我們要怎麼做因為他侵害了人民、國民行使所謂的公民權這件事情主權在民的原則還有所謂的平等權 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
722.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
735.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
18跟19歲的孩子跟20歲的人一樣是成年人了他的平等權也要被尊重所以我只要問您假如這個案子您成為大法官您贊不贊成用釋憲的方式宣告他違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
739.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
739.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
黃珊珊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
769.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
772.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以教授我只問你你贊成這樣的方式嗎我必須明白的講我會保留這個意見我不會明白的講一定會贊成但是憲法門檻過高這是你的跟我一樣覺得這是不可能的任務了 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
799.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
818.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
從我們現在到未來的甚至百年我看都不太可能發生的所以這個事情也希望新的大法官能夠解決跟面對我想這是我們大家必須要去面對的事實憲法要與時俱進但是以現在的修憲門檻幾乎是做不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
819.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
846.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
只能靠著所謂的釋憲來解決未來的爭議而且我認為最重要的不是只是在機關權限爭議或者光明覆決而且我們憲法的對於基本權利的保障的那一些權利清單太簡略了這個一定要再修憲才有辦法把它弄得更明確所以太簡略了我現在要問你幾個可能也是很被簡略的東西自由組成家庭也是憲法保障的基本權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
847.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
871.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
私有組成家庭裡面有幾個第一個我看到您也說司法要與時俱進接下去現在就是在德國也是您的母校卵子捐贈跟代孕雖然都被禁止但是德國政府正在檢討中因為很多德國人還是到海外去做所謂的代理孕母接下去我們的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
873.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
898.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
今年5月份我們的衛福部有公告人工生殖法導入所謂的代理孕母還有所謂的軟金軟捐贈裡面講得非常清楚而且他當時還引用了憲法22條民眾享有結婚自由自由組成家庭的權利憲法第7條權利不應該有差別而且要保障所謂的平等權這是一個非常進步的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
900.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
922.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但是在12月突然間宣告脫工不處理了我現在要問的是您的基本價值您覺得人民有沒有機會選擇他自己如何組成家庭人民能不能選擇我要不要有我的下一代這件事情是不是應該剛剛講的憲法應該保障的基本權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
923.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
931.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
藍心得總統曾經在立法委員的任內以前提出了代孕版的人工生殖法這個是在非常早他當立委的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
950.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
975.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
現在我要討論的是憲法第748號當時的同性婚姻認為中華民國的民法沒有給同性婚姻登記的機制所以這個違憲我現在問如果國家沒有提供代孕制度的程序是不是也會違憲我覺得代理義母這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
976.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1004.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我剛講沒有銀保沒有給你登記的機制違憲國家沒有給你代理育母的機制可能也會違反平等權在同性婚姻這件事竟然已經被立法被憲法已經明文承認了結果你去登記的時候只是因為行政規則行政法不讓你登記所以你原來要同性結婚的這個制度沒有制度也可能違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1005.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1019.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
沒有代理育母也可能違憲是不是真的代理育母這件事情沒有立法或者沒有榮譽包括違憲這件事情可能還要再來討論但是人民連選擇的機會都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1022.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1050.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
如果我們要搞平等權他至少要有選擇的機會他可以不選但是不等於他連選的機會都沒有我們現在問題是選的機會都沒有當然這有所謂的其他的倫理爭議但是我認為至少我們要面對這些人我們給他的很嚴格的要件限制甚至限制他的身份比如說就非常簡單的像陳昭志委員是沒有他的子宮發育的問題他不是不能不想用自己的子宮但是沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1051.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1079.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這才是要給他們機會選擇而不是一竿子打翻一船人因為有道德風險所以這些人就不用管同樣的剛剛講憲法要保障多數人但是也要照顧少數人沒錯接下來您當大法官之後可能會有非常多的案子尤其是立法院通過了很多法案可能都會被行政院說毀憲亂證送給大法官去釋憲從今年年初開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1080.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1081.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
黃珊珊 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1093.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1120.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們不可以用預算案增加支出憲法70條對於行政院所提的預算案不得為增加支出之提議也就是不可以增加預算但是如果國會以法律增加了支出因為很多的相關的法案給人民相關的福利都可能會增加預算以法律案增加支出有沒有違憲就您的認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1123.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1149.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
以我對於財政劃分法的理解．雖然那不是我的專業．但我認為在財政的劃分．在我們現在中央跟地方．在涉及到這個財政支出．到底要怎麼劃分的時候．當時沒有財政收支劃分法．用立法來定．就是授予立法機關這樣的權限．而且財劃法的第一條就是按照憲法． |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1150.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1164.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
以及地方制度法訂出這個法律所以我現在只是問不管是不是財化法任何增加支出、增加人力、增加補助的都可能是用法律案來解決法律案有沒有違反憲法70條 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1166.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1181.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
如果是法律案那在這一種跟所謂的預算案其實他還是在本質上他還是會有一些你讓人有可能違憲但這一點我不知道就是說我們張文貞預算案這一點他們會怎麼去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1185.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1213.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
教授今天就很簡單的說你認為yes or no違不違憲我在這一點上我不敢那麼明確的講我沒有把握的這件事我沒有辦法明確說yes or no我們立法院通過了幾個法案第一個原住民進法補償提高到6萬村民長事務費沒有行政院提案是由立法院提案的立法院增加了國際事務處也增加預算沒有行政院的提案這三個案子現在都通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1215.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1217.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
當時的進法補助卓榮泰院長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1224.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1224.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
黃珊珊 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1249.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1254.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好,謝謝黃委員、謝謝貝提米爾下一位請王逸川委員詢問 |