| IVOD_ID |
158081 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158081 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-10 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-10T09:13:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-10T09:34:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:21:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/29fe42b2a7280ca7c60d54005cac31ec36e3fd37d751600aa7f92cceafbe799a42429a604935b5345ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:13:42 - 09:34:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名張文貞、姚立明、何賴傑、陳運財、王碧芳、廖福特、劉靜怡7位為司法院大法官，並以張文貞為院長、姚立明為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.pyannote[366].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[366].start |
1261.99409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[366].end |
1263.96846875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
25.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
50.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝主席,馬上有請被提名人我們請被提名人張女士搭訓被提名人早12月10號今天是國際人權日我們的憲法法庭、我們的司法院、我們的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
51.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
79.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
在整個憲法解釋的工作當中最重要的不外乎兩個部分一個是權力分立的原則一個是基本人權的保障我相信貝迪敏作為憲法的學者應該會有非常深的認識跟體認在世界人權日的今天我想要請教的第一個問題您認為現行的集會遊行法有沒有侵害基本人權有沒有違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
82.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
109.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
謝謝委員的提問那那個因為我是司法職位的提名所以基於憲法、憲法解釋那只要是憲法解釋及憲法裁判那都有拘束全國各機關及人民的效力我將在這個基礎上回答委員的問題至於其他立法政策的問題我想那個就會是由立法院來做進一步的考量我現在在處理的並不是立法政策的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
110.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
122.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我現在在請教的是有關於基本人權保障的問題所以我具體的請教您啊您認為現行的集會遊行法有沒有侵害人民的基本權利有沒有違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
124.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
125.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
除了這個部分以外呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
147.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
170.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
除了這個部分以外呢?除了這個部分以外,事實上大法官在兩個這個集會遊行相關的解釋當中其實都具體的對這個集會遊行法的各項要件是不是能夠更加以明確化那做了憲法上的要求所以按照目前的集會遊行法你認為有沒有侵害基本人權? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
172.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
193.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
報告委員還有一個也是這個除了剛剛兩位兩個大法官解釋之外那立法院在98年已經國內法化公民與政治權利國際公約那這個公約在多次的憲法解釋被大法官所引用那在這個公約裡頭提到和平集會的權利必須要加以確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
193.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
195.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
請委員容許我就回答到這個部分謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
217.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
239.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
其實被提名的人我剛剛給你充分的時間希望你表達你在各項法律上面做的人權作為權力分立的選擇所以你也可以看得到對您相當的尊重我給你很長的時間回答一個非常簡單的問題感謝委員你記不記得你曾經主張過集會遊行法違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
243.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
252.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
委員我在有一篇文章當中非常清楚的提到不是一篇文章你還記不記得你曾主張集會有刑法違憲必須要修改請委員提醒不過我剛剛已經講過好幾個憲法解釋第一個2008年的時候你曾經參與連署這個是在你剛剛所講的2009年ICCPR之前的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
270.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
296.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
在這個之前你已經主張過現行的極有法是違憲的有侵害基本人權必須要加以修改我希望我希望這樣的憲法價值你能夠放在心裡面但令人遺憾的事情是什麼令人遺憾的事情是過去主張極有法違憲我們目前的民進黨政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
298.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
324.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
從2016年到現在整整8年的時間儘管在野黨提出了集會遊行法必須要修正的法案但是在立法院裡面不斷的受到了阻礙受到了杯葛導致這一個有違憲之餘的集會遊行法當初2008年這麼多的學者站出來連署站出來呼籲包括您在內 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
326.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
354.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
2008年到現在已經2024年了我們違憲的行為遊行法在立法院裡面竟然還沒有辦法得到進一步的修正被提名的人會不會覺得遺憾謝謝委員的提醒這確實是我所參與的連署我也相當記得當時在廣場靜坐的臺大學生甚至還有日本的學者跟著我一起到現場去探望我們的學生你還記得非常的好但我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
355.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
380.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有很多人都已經忘了為什麼我說很多人都已經忘了當初參與這一場集會遊行非常多的人現在已經成為政治工作者甚至有當選總統的有當選立法委員即便如此到了2024年的今天我們還是在用統一部違憲的集會遊行法第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
382.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
383.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
為什麼沒有回覆? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
408.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
412.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
沒有錯啊我們先建立一個基本原則啊法律在被憲法法庭宣告違憲以前是不是一個有效的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
432.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
433.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
433.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
435.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
是。 是不是需要遵守? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
435.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是應該要遵守。你為什麼沒有遵守? |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
439.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
441.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
是因為你們有特權嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
441.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
448.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
並沒有,我們不應該。如果你們沒有特權,法律沒有被宣告違憲以前應該遵守,請問你們為什麼不回覆? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
450.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
470.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
再次跟委員說明因為當時憲法法庭這個暫時停止適用的是裁定憲法法庭的實體的裁判還沒有做成而你也知道任何的人民向憲法法庭申請釋憲在憲法法庭的裁判沒有做出來以前可以不遵守嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
472.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
499.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
委員也跟您報告所以我們當時在回覆這個大院的這個新聞稿當中有特別提到幾個關節點那一個除了是程序的條文之外還有就是立法院的這個議程那所以我們我們先停一下來看一下我們請你們回覆問卷立法院職權刑事法依照的159條之一嘛第二項我們一樣一樣把事情理清楚第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
500.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
523.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
法律在沒有被宣告違憲以前是合法有效的法律任何的公民都有遵守的義務這個是我們剛剛已經建立的前提了嘛但是在這個條文裡面有規範說要等到立法院確定了審查日程以後你們才有回覆的義務嗎沒有如果沒有的話你們為什麼竟然 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
524.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
549.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們請你們依法回覆的問卷．可以不交．說要等到確定議程了以後．你們才願意回覆．增加法律所沒有的要件．是只有所有的大法官被提名人．有這樣超越法律的權利．還是一般的人民也有當然沒有這是一個基本態度的問題啦今天．如果當一群法律人．被提名為大法官． |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
550.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
570.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
在還沒當上大法官之前他們就自認為他們在法律之上沒有人在法律之上他們可以增加法律所沒有的要件自我的選擇他要不要回什麼時候要回這個是一個大法官的被提名人應該有的基本態度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
571.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
581.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員因為在這個黨團的問卷裡頭有關於拒絕及罰環的問題那拒絕跟罰環確實後來你第一次總共收到幾個問題我們第一次的問卷嗎在這個問卷的後面有提到我們對於拒絕跟罰環的相關的討論我請問你總共收到幾個問題那我們收到12個問題總共收到12個問題嘛請問你回答了幾個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
601.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
625.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那因為在那個拒絕跟罰還的那個部分我們必須要尊重那你就留空白嘛前面的問題跟後面你所講的有關係嗎12個問題有一個問題你認為不適合回答那你不適合回答你就留空白嘛因為構成你不用回答前面11個問題的法律事由嗎委員事上有的那因為民眾黨的黨團的問卷你說你有回答問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
627.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
633.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我剛剛是說有相關的問題第二次發給你們的問卷什麼時候交回來的我們10天內就依法定的期限即時交回來的你們是昨天交回來的嘛直接回答問題面對問題有這麼困難嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
679.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
沒有沒有困難昨天10日內的最後期限不好意思喔這樣子的審查程序到要行使同意權的前一天才把問卷交回來你應該對美國憲法跟聯邦最高法院非常熟悉嗎是他們的程序是這樣進行的嗎報告委員你覺得啦在國會審查的前一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
680.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
706.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們早就發出去的問卷才寄回來討厭大家的閱讀能力跟閱讀時間沒有關係我全部看完了所以我進一步請教我們請教你針對有關於死刑存廢這是在基本人權的保障上在我國憲法的解釋上引發全國人民高度關注的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
708.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
727.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
結果您所回來的答案是因為你被提名了所以你不予表示意見這個是你可以不予表示意見的項目嗎?全體的國民沒有權利知道你在這個重大的基本人權保障的議題上面的想法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
728.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
755.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
委員,全體人民跟大院都有權利知道我帶這個議題的想法所以你的想法是什麼?就是我們應該要尊重憲法法庭的裁判沒有錯,除了這個以外呢?除了這個以外我們不能表示任何的意見你不能表示任何意見嗎?所有的被提名人裡面不好意思喔我問,然後我請你回答如果你覺得我的問題不合理那你可以直接講 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
756.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
780.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以我覺得你的提問不合理我拒絕回答這我也尊重你你放心我不會過去用暴力的手段阻礙你回答任何問題請你放心在這裡此時此刻的程序您真的不用擔心會有人用暴力的手段不讓這個會議進行也不會有人用暴力的手段不讓你回答任何問題如果人民有權利知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
781.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
805.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但是你所交回來的問卷是你不予表示意見我具體的問在所有的被提名人當中您知道有幾個人沒有回答這個問題嗎委員我們每一個人都是獨立行使職員是沒有錯所以我請教你有幾個人沒有回答這個問題你知道嗎我不應該知道這個問題的答案我可以跟你講只有你一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
806.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
833.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
只有你一個人其他的被提名的人寫多寫少是一回事但最起碼他們展現了什麼他們展現了勇氣他們展現了面對問題的勇氣此行的存廢在台灣的社會有高度的爭議現在的公民社會對於所謂的113年憲判之八號判決有非常強烈的不滿跟批評 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
835.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
861.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所有的被提名人都知道但讓我感動的是什麼讓我感動的是有被提名人明明知道這件事情明明知道他所持的見解未必在目前台灣的公民社會是受多數人所支持的見解他還是勇敢的面對了這個問題針對我們的每一個提問具體的回答我未必贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
862.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
891.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那些被提名人他們在這些問題上面所抱持的憲法立場跟憲法解釋但是我可以跟您說明的是什麼我佩服人家的勇氣不迴避困難的問題不迴避重要的人權保障的議題也不迴避當人權保障的議題跟社會上面多數主流的民意產生高度衝突的時候有勇氣面對這樣的問題我的問題是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
892.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
911.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們要選出來的大法官不就是應該要有這樣子的道德勇氣有勇氣面對困難的人權議題有勇氣向社會清楚的表達我心裡面到底是怎麼想的這不是我們在選擇大法官應該有的標準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
912.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
937.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
您今天採取這樣子迴避問題的態度我必須要跟被提名人說讓我非常非常的失望非常非常的失望您如果認為一旦被提名這些問題都不適合回答的話那顯然其他回答這些問題的被提名人他們都做了不適當的事情這一步具體的請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
938.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
959.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
在113年憲判制第8號判決他說要最嚴重的犯罪類型這個是ICCPR第6條來的我們大家都很熟悉但除了這個以外他還加了要個案犯罪情節最嚴重另外一個他說必須要各審級 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
960.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
977.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
不是只有第一審喔美國各州有死刑的制度的各州絕大多數都是陪審團第一審的一字決被提名的人你知不知道有哪一個國家要求各個審計都必須要求一字決的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
979.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1002.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
委員在這件事情上那個有哪一個國家是採行這樣的立法例因為目前廢除死刑的國家已經非常多在普通法上的國家有哪一個國家是採行這樣的立法例這是一個非常簡單的問題啊您被提名為司法院院長應該有足夠的能力回答這個簡單的問題啊有哪一個國家採行這樣的立法例 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1005.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1025.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
目前沒有國家採行這樣的立法沒有採行這樣的立法例嘛對於我國的憲法法庭對我 透過憲法的解釋透過憲法的解釋他們事實上在做什麼事情他們已經在扮演立法者的角色透過憲法法庭在扮演立法者的角色我接下來問題也很具體您認為 您認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1028.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1041.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
在實行判決的時候要不要求各個省級要一致決的這件事情這應該是立法者的政策決定還是憲法法庭法官的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1042.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1070.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
委員就像我剛剛在這個報告致詞的時候提到那到底是要維護憲法還是尊重多數是一個對憲法法庭很重大的挑戰那容我先很快的說因為大法官這一次的憲法判決我把問題把它理得更清楚一點多數人的意見憲法法庭維護人權這個是一個問題的模組但我在問的不是這個問題的模組 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1071.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1092.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我在問的是什麼模組你應該非常的清楚司法權在當代憲政民主的國家當中他什麼時候應該積極什麼時候應該消極什麼時候應該邁入立法者他們立法形成的空間這個是在憲法的解釋上憲法的政策上 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1093.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1107.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
容我這樣講啊ABC的問題每一個人有每一個人不同的看法我相信本院的委員還有整個台灣的公民社會有權利知道每一位被提名的人對司法權 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1108.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1135.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
在特定的脈絡下面．他應該要扮演什麼樣的角色．有權利知道．所以我才請教你這個問題．我的問題非常的具體．我的問題非常的具體．在這個問題脈絡的時候．是應該大法官．扮演的什麼．扮演的立法者的角色．具姓名的告訴你．每一個審計都要一致決．還是這件事情應該交由立法者來加以決斷． |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1136.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1163.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
委員我剛在致詞的時候就已經提到了事實上就這件事情我在許多的法學文章都有表示我的立場我認為我們應該要採取程序跟制度取向的對話法院那這也是目前很多國家所採取的換句話說制定相關的程序、制度跟要求然後請這個立法院在適當的時間內加以修法立法這個是目前在全球憲政底下對話式的方法最有效的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1164.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1193.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
此期各審期一定要一致決請問立法院還剩下什麼立法行程的空間只有一個選擇啊就是要求一定要一致決否則違憲剛剛您所講的要對話、要溝通我們什麼時候看到了我們的憲法法庭在這裡留有任何對話、討論的空間沒有啊當我決定這是憲法價值的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1194.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1213.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
立法者只有一件事情只有一件事情依照憲法法庭這幾位大法官他們自己所形成的價值來修改法律除了一字訣以外有其他修法的空間嗎有其他修法的空間嗎來請教被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1215.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1240.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
在這個問題上大法官因為他當時繫針的法律是法院組織法而不是國民法官法所以大法官已經...對不起喔我沒有提到國民法官法的部分現在國民法官的制度只有在第一審試用嘛問題的焦點是什麼我們大法官創設了獨步全球的制度啊連上幾審都要求一致決啊這是一個大法官應該做的事嗎這會攸關什麼接下... |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1262.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1262.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好,謝謝黃委員 |