| IVOD_ID |
158078 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158078 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-10 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-10T15:45:24+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-10T16:06:08+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/29fe42b2a7280ca7d8e6a38a8e930ee736e3fd37d751600ae04cec5cddf8e446e70ccf99090aa3605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:45:24 - 16:06:08 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名張文貞、姚立明、何賴傑、陳運財、王碧芳、廖福特、劉靜怡7位為司法院大法官，並以張文貞為院長、姚立明為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席那我們好請被提名的人答詢好謝謝呃姚先生齁姚先生你好齁你好委員在那個大法官的公聽會的時候已經有特別說明了就是我不會對於您的對於公共政策的特定意見而認為你適不適任大法官我反而認為一個大法官他應該應該呃幫我處理一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
49.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
應該要注意的是他有沒有受到政治力的影響以及他知不知道自己可以做什麼以及不可以做什麼我想這個才是我們心中認為大法官他應該要做到的事情我想請問您一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
在您被提名大法官的候選人的時候其實民間有非常多的聲音像譬如說一項親綠的自由時報他就有提到說大法官豈能酬庸再來我們回到看民調上面來看不支持您擔任大法官的高達44%比支持您的人多出10%甚至大家還說提名姚立明當副院長是選舉報恩張文貞是市縣報恩 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
108.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那我們再回過頭來看為什麼網路上有人說您是變色龍剛剛也很多委員有提到就是從06年您是紅三軍的副總指揮那您剛有說明原因那12年小英基金會14年柯文哲的競選總幹事18年您又說民進黨是垃圾柯文哲不會加入那去年呢您又擔任那個賴清德總統他的辦公室那個競選辦公室主任所以這段 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
109.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
109.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
吳宗憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
129.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
吳宗憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
174.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
在賴清德他那個萬里的那個老宅那個您曾經在選舉那個時候你在一次的記者會在去年的12月18號的一個中國屆選的記者會的時候您有說到一個東西副總統的居所可以維安這個我百分之百認同這個在特種勤務條例第12條就有了那您說 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
177.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
賴總統的萬里老宅就是俗稱賴皮寮那個萬里老宅這個是賴新德的居所所以派人維安這個居所沒有這個沒有問題那我想請問您一下法律上面對於居所的定義是什麼居所跟住所不一樣住所是長期居住的意思作為他的生活範圍居所 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
198.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
198.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
吳宗憲議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
220.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
住所在我國民法20條有非常詳細的規定他有久住的意思跟一定居住在一定的地區也就是說他有居住的意思您剛說的沒錯再來我國對於居所的定義在83年的那個裁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
253.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
裡面寫非常清楚而且這幾十年來15級學術都採用認為居所跟住所唯一不同的地方是居所沒有久住的意思但是他必須有居住的事實但是呢那個時候的競選連競選辦公室都說賴清德並沒有居住在那邊也就是說他並沒有居住的事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
255.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
當然我也認同他有到那邊去睡個午覺或去那邊冥想去那邊招待客人我都不否認可能有這些事情但是這些在法律上就不叫做居所啊所以這個連最基本的居所的定義您都不懂所以這有兩種可能性嘛一個就是您的法學素養還不夠不了解居所是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第二個就是你明明知道這個大一學生都懂得居所的定義但是你必須為了主子幫他洗地所以你必須要告訴大家說那個地方叫居所如果您的論點正確的話辦公室也是我居所啦因為我偶爾還是睡在這邊熬夜啊那偶爾我上禮拜去宜蘭住了兩天那那邊也是我的居所嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
321.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
是這樣定義的嗎他是在做副總統以後才有你剛才所說的後面那個狀況所以他會再以副總統官邸為他的住所官邸是他居所可是你現在問的是他老家嗎他會不會回老家睡他在之前常常會回到老家去吧如果您堅持這個說法您真的會被全國法律系大一的學生笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
342.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我在這邊說話我總是說一句話我說話我負責那您可以回去查一下我國住所居所的定義既然不符合我國住所居所的規定那個違安就是一個違法的違安您當時在當場你還幫他辯護說那個是他的居所所以我在這邊必須告訴您要嘛您的法學素養真的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第二個就是你明知道但是為了替主子洗地所以必須要說那個地方叫居所我跟您報告一件事情偶爾去住個兩三天偶爾在那邊睡午覺那個都不叫居所居所是什麼譬如說我租屋處我的宿舍長期在那邊有居住的事實但不是有久住的意思那個叫做居所 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
365.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
最高法院明明說了以暫時目的所居之場所啊不對那個我跟你講如果是他到達利齡的地點可以但是居所是有居住的事實什麼叫做居住的事實麻煩你回去翻一下大衣的教科書你再這樣跟我講我真的覺得還蠻失望的啦那我覺得大法官他是一個必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
391.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
404.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
實憑解釋憲法的一個工作如果說為了追逐權力而去這樣講把政治凌駕在法律之上這種人我不是說您這種人其實是不適合做大法官的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
420.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我想我剛剛說的麻煩您回去查一下什麼叫做居住的事實這一句話好了我們先不論住所跟居所兩個字什麼叫做居住的事實麻煩您回去找一個大一的學生借一下他的教科書來了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
421.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那如果你連這個基本的法律概念都不懂那我也是擔心說這樣的法律能力有沒有辦法去擔任大法官而且這個論點我在去年就提出來我就去年我也是說您的這個論點絕對法律上是錯誤的我在去年就有講過因為今天我來詢問您之前我已經看過您以前的受訪影片那你覺得賴清德什麼時候開始居住在那裡沒有居住的事實我們尊重詢問人 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
451.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
451.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
時間要暫停,你沒辦法暫停嗎?我給你10秒你先講 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
467.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
484.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我今天要詢問您這幾天過去受訪的影片以及您之前發表的文章以及有關憲法法庭以及當年大法官會議解釋的時代的東西我都稍微以您的名字稍微去查證一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
485.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
512.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那所以我在想就是您在2007年的時候有發表過一篇文章就是《憲法功能與實踐論內閣制修憲》其實從這個地方我們看得出來你認為說其實這個憲政上面的弊端有時候權力沒有任何限制之下會造成一個超級的大總統這個是您以前的論述那當然你在2014年你跟林濁水大師也曾經 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
513.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
513.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
吳宗憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
535.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
542.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
是喔那到今天也沒有變過對不對沒有好那如果依照你的這個想法之下的話請問一下我國目前對於總統的問責是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
545.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
548.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
570.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
571.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
但是原來設計不是如此後來改變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
587.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
588.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
提名大法官要符合司法院的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
614.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
633.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
提名大法官又有一定的程序提名大法官最後還要經過大院的同意他有三關要過所以這一點我個人認為尤其現在立法院並沒有多數的跟總統相同的政黨那這麼崎嶇的路子 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
634.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我不覺得他是在仇擁我他應該有更多的職務不需要經過立法院吧不是啊 你不是就是做他的那個競選辦公室主任嗎好不好那這樣啦 我一直跟你說我們現在的總統啊他已經變成是行政權的最高行政首長了啦他已經不是行政院長因為他還可以打電話去罵那個環境部長啊這個還是衛福部長自己說出來的所以我們現在就是變得一個很奇怪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
663.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
685.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
的制度嘛如果說你一切依照憲法邏輯去走總統歸總統行政院長歸行政院長那我們還可以理解但是現在總統已經幾乎變成是行政院院長的等於是兼任行政院長了啦那再來我們再提到您剛也提您的以前的論述也有提到說一個權力不能毫無節制毫無約束嘛但是113年憲判9號其實他幾乎讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
689.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
717.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
除了我們先說除了總統變成沒有人可以管之外憲判9號讓行政院也沒有人可以管所以這個東西跟您當年的想法是完全不一樣所以這次的憲判9號他把那個國會的調查權從狼牙棒變仙女棒你只能拿來放個火花而已一點用處都沒有那如果您擔任大法官之後你會不會依據您當年的理想你去做出新的憲判秩序推翻掉憲判9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
719.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
大法官不能修憲我認為現在的總統是叫超級大總統制我這些都同意的可是我不能修憲我必須按照現行憲法去解釋憲法所以我贊成國會調查權從沒有否認過在我所有的文章都是如此可是我請區分憲法原憲法我先不講徵修條文已經修改了57條內容大致相同值數字改變了57條跟67條都不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
749.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
775.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
57條是立法院．可以質詢行政院的條文67條是立法院的委員會．可以邀請社會跟官員．我沒有說你當任大法官．可以修憲．我只是說以新的憲判制去推翻舊的憲判制．我剛不是說了嗎．我贊成國會有調查權．可是請區別第一司法有調查權．行政會調查．像最近的霸凌行政也在調查． |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
776.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
779.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
請您能夠秉持您過往的想法、您的理想去做出一個合憲的判決好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
793.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
815.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我一定會如此啊我必須只能依照現行憲法我不能去改變憲法這次韓國戒嚴讓我們想到一個點就是說他為什麼可以在6個小時之內就化解了這次的危機其實有一個跟我國很大不一樣的地方就是他們的國會他是可以主動去集會然後去解除戒嚴但是在我國呢我們必須被動的等總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
816.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
816.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
吳宗憲議員吳宗憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
838.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
865.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但是齁其實這段時間他只說民主不走回頭路啦但是他從來沒有說他絕對不宣布戒嚴但是我在想齁我還是蠻希望你這個不可能是將來一定就是這樣子啦齁但是我也必須再講一個因為我剛剛說了嘛您也是這個一直變嘛那賴總統會不會像您一樣將來也是變來變去又變去會戒嚴我們也不知道所以我們只能盡量創造一個更好的制度來保護這個國家好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
868.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那我們這次有人提到說24小時把責任時間縮短24小時您認同嗎我沒有聽懂問題對不起就是一個月的時間把它改為24小時您認同嗎你說那個戒嚴還是對戒嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
884.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
908.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我當然同意,我甚至於認為我非常同意屬於韓國的那個制度,也就是...好,謝謝,那我謝謝,那有一些想法我們...這個應該可以修改戒嚴法的規定沒問題,對,這是立法院的責任有一些東西我當然是認同,你只要認同我就支持那有一些我不認同的我就不支持好,那我再提一下,過往的副院長、司法院副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
909.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
919.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
有法治彬、蔡炯敦、蘇詠卿、謝再全這些要嘛就是基層法官出身要嘛就是有相當的行政歷練那我想請問您一個問題因為您過去並沒有相關的行政經驗或實務經驗那您認為您擔任副院長有辦法稱職嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
932.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
955.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我應該是可以的 如果是司法行政的工作我當然會追尋院長的許多行政工作因為副院長講實在話 如果沒有院長的交代我其實沒有什麼行政工作可言所以我會按照未來司法院院長如果我有幸成為副院長我當然會追隨院長的行政工作的交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
957.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
980.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我跟你講當時那個柯文哲當選市長之後你在一次訪談裡面你有提到說你不適合行政工作因為每天要早起所以這個也是讓我去擔心因為每天要早起你不適合行政工作但現在卻要你擔任司法院的副院長他必須有非常非常多的行政工作那這樣子我會擔心也沒有行政的經驗也沒有實務的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
984.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1008.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這時候又要你違反自己的生活習慣每天早起去擔任副院長這真的有可能嗎這話是你以前自己講的我這句話講的背景是因為當時柯文哲要求我6點多去7點鐘要開會當時他的行政工作是這個習慣我當時是針對他所講的說我特別講到台北市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1009.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1012.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
若果你真的有幸當副院長請注意一下各級法院法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1036.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1053.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席官、法警這些人的辛勞這都過勞了你一定要特別注意到那其實從剛剛問你的那個賴清德住所那件事情其實我對你的答案其實並沒有很滿意那我也覺得說這段時間你一直變來變去 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1055.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1081.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我其實我這段時間我這幾天我看了這些資料之後我心裡有個想法其實你在紅三軍那個時候你曾經講過一句話我當年我也很感動你說你永遠站在權力的對立面但是呢現在變成說是站在你站在權力的最裡面了司法院副院長大法官這變成權力的最裡面你已經不是在權力的對立面了所以我在這邊跟您說就是畢竟這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1084.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1110.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個我也不知道該怎麼說因為當年我確實對你這句話是很感動那我覺得這一次啊他們挑你當大法官其實我也在想說我看了一下組織法的規定想說這到底是適合哪一個點我也還是想不出來所以說還是說因為我看了一下您過往的事蹟其實最引人注意到的是輔選你輔選真的很厲害而且你的勝率非常高 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1110.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1115.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我永遠站在權力的對立面的意思是說我永遠不會因為任何人舉例來講我幫助柯文哲過可是我站在他的對立面在批判他 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1140.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1163.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我絕對不會因為我幫助過賴清德針對他如果違法違憲的行為我就閉口不言這叫做權力對立面今天我接受這個是因為我自己專業憲法我覺得我可以在這方面有所貢獻我尊重您的講法但是我想說你也尊重我對於看完很多花了非常多時間看完你的資料之後我自己心中的一個感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1166.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1183.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
主治法第4條有提到研究法學但是我看了一下您過去10年並沒有發表期刊還有就是過往的資料我查了一下其實著作也不多總共合著的有38篇學術論文 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1187.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1204.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這個14篇著作那跟我明天要質詢的另外一位老師陳運財老師其實他有3本書114篇文章跟100篇期刊論文比你多了100篇期刊論文所以我覺得在學術領域可能這個地位也很難被大家所認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1205.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1234.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
所以最後我的感覺我的結論這段時間我看下來就是說因為您沒有實務的經驗沒有從事相關的實務經驗也沒有行政的經驗沒有說帶人或行政機關要了解一下行政機關的一些過程還有學術的地位也是被大家所質疑那沒有實務經驗沒有行政經驗沒有學術經驗的話那這個要如何擔任大法官這是我對您的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1235.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1245.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
一位那也歡迎您這一天如果可以就盡量適宜給我讓我們知道好謝謝謝謝姚先生好謝謝吳委員謝謝被提名 |