| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/29fe42b2a7280ca789d14d048691e26836e3fd37d751600aea86f03d1ff0f78a5427d115afefc0b05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:29:46 - 11:50:32 |
| 影片長度 |
1246 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名張文貞、姚立明、何賴傑、陳運財、王碧芳、廖福特、劉靜怡7位為司法院大法官，並以張文貞為院長、姚立明為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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院長麻煩請被提名人請張被提名人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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背題名人您好幾個問題想跟您請教一下第一個是南韓在上個禮拜的時候有宣布戒嚴嘛那後來我去看了一下我們其實我們憲法第39條其實也有相關戒嚴跟解嚴的規定他是講說總統可以依法宣布戒嚴但是要經立法院通過跟罪認立法院認為必要時可以疑請 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.974 |
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可以決議依請總統戒嚴那這是憲法的規定但是在我們的戒嚴法好像沒有針對憲法規定的非常的清楚譬如說我講南韓的狀況南韓後來能夠很快解嚴是因為他們的國會議員翻牆進入了國會趕快通過解嚴案然後總統後來宣布解嚴可是你看類似的狀況在我們的戒嚴法裡面並沒有很明確規定在我們的戒嚴法的第一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.693 |
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100.981 |
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講的是說總統如果宣布戒嚴一個月內提交立法院罪認而且在立法院休會期間應該於復會的時候再提交罪認換句話說如果南韓的狀況發生在台灣現在可能台灣還是戒嚴狀態但我覺得問題很嚴重是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
122.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
當時南韓戒嚴的時候民進黨第一時間發出貼文他們非常肯定他們直接就講說尹錫悅是因為南韓的國會被北韓的勢力滲透所以尹錫悅為了要守護憲法自由所以才宣布戒嚴就是完全是採用尹錫悅的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
124.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
125.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
各位委員說明目前中華民國憲法關於緊急的狀況的法制 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
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那只有這個戒嚴跟緊急命令那緊急命令的相關程序在過去憲法的增修那已經有比較完善明確的條文那但是憲法39條的這個戒嚴的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
185.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那從這個過去到現在一直沒有任何的修改那也因為這樣子這個憲法就目前的文字事實上它是開放有一個立法形成的空間那對於立法的這個政策我作為司法的備體名人我就不辯保釋意見但它確實是不管是在憲法的增修或者是這個立法政策形成的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
186.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
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那都可以來做的我相信戒嚴法的這個一個月的規定是因為在過去簽台之前簽台之後那我們的戒嚴法都沒有再有過任何的增修因為你看我剛剛就講戒嚴法第一條嘛他說在立法院休會期間應於復會時提交罪人那所以男孩子的情況假設是發生在台灣然後是在休會期間其實台灣他並不會在立刻他沒有一個機制可以立刻戒嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
216.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
憲法第39條的規定他說總統依法宣布戒嚴需經立法院通過或追認 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
233.722 |
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247.376 |
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所以在憲法所規定的這個條文文字的範圍內事實上並沒有去規範立法院通過或追認的時間這個是憲法條原給予大院的一個形成跟作為的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
248.357 |
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261.323 |
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那所以大院其實事實上也不需要受到戒嚴法第1條的拘束大院如果覺得有立即採取憲法上相關行為的需要事實上也不受是在憲法第39條的規範範圍內的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.504 |
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286.258 |
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您剛問的比較是說一個月的這個部分那至於期間的問題事實上很明確的是憲法第39條授權立法院政策形成的空間所以立法院如果說想要和韓國一樣假設總統隨便亂戒嚴然後我們要有一個很緊急的狀況去戒嚴的話就是修改戒嚴法讓他變得更明確一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
287.239 |
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301.756 |
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我們當然不希望能夠遇到戒嚴不過這個確實是立法院做立法政策修法行政的規定因為我有看到民進黨的人說怎麼能不修就不修啦我聽起來是蠻害怕剛好您 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
302.656 |
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331.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
法學專家也跟您請教一下因為民進黨如果在第一時間對於飲食業戒嚴是譴責的話那大家都比較放心但是飲食業戒嚴民進黨第一時間的貼文是蠻肯定的覺得飲食業是為了要守護憲法自由才戒嚴的而且他還直接民進黨還直接講說南韓的國會被北韓勢力滲透完全採用飲食業的說法所以我們才會擔心這才會衍生後面說要不要修憲法的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
332.416 |
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353.431 |
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好 第二個問題想跟您請教一下在我們的憲法增修條文第10條的第6點他說國家應維護婦女之人格尊嚴保障婦女之人身安全消除性別歧視促進兩性地位之實質平等最近發生一件事情有一個人對著另外一個女性講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
354.992 |
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375.738 |
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你穿的這麼暴露你的外套裡面只有運動內衣你是不是要故意碰瓷啊什麼意思呢就是說你是不是故意有人碰到你之後你就要講人家性騷擾你我想問一下被提名人你覺得這樣子的一個對女性說出這樣的話有沒有違反性別歧視有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.977 |
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那個委員的提問當然我剛剛都一直在說你作為司法被提名人我就不便對於個案做出我們問的是價值嗎因為如果是這樣子的話什麼都不用講了對我要特別說明的是這個性騷擾防治法跟我們在教育工作領域的這些性別平等的相關的法規其實從過去到現在已經有非常長足的進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
401.408 |
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430.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那過去幾年國外也有非常多的MeToo的運動那增修條文這一條事實上曾經在大法官做過解釋認為大法官這個強調人格尊嚴的這個部分尤其必須要從人格尊嚴的角度來保障這個性別在各個場域的受到尊重那我剛剛就問說如果有人指控另外一個人說你穿著運動內衣你是不是想要碰瓷故意陷害別人騷擾你這有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.178 |
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459.193 |
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陰害到那個被指控的人的人格尊嚴我想無論是任何的個案我們都必須要這個從您剛正確指出來的憲法增修條文第10條第6項這個從保障任何人每一個人的人格尊嚴的角度應該是有性別歧視吧因為我們不應該對一個女性講說你穿什麼衣服你就是特別什麼目的嘛如果有人講說你穿迷你裙你是不是想要勾引男人 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
459.949 |
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468.458 |
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你覺得這樣有沒有性別歧視有吧委員這個是絕對不可以的那如果講說你穿著運動內衣你就是要碰瓷 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
469.411 |
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497.11 |
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你就是有目的你就是要等到人家男生碰到你的時候你要去指控人家騷擾你這有沒有性別歧視有嘛我不知道說這怎麼這個不是價值為什麼這麼難回答過於閃避了啦其實沒有必要過於閃避啦委員沒有就是謝謝委員的提醒不過我剛剛已經講過我們的這個性別相關的法規已經有非常長途但是因為憲法說國家應該要維護可是剛剛我講那個指控另外一個人穿運動內衣 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
498.578 |
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525.82 |
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然後繼續碰瓷的指控別人的那個人他是一個國會議員所以國家憲法直接規定說國家要維護婦女人格尊嚴消除性別歧視但是我們的國會議員居然指控另外一個女性的國會議員說你穿運動內衣是為了要碰瓷別人你覺得我們這個國家做得夠嗎憲法直接規定要做但是在國會的殿堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
527.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
531.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
憲政機關立法院裡面居然有國會議員做這樣的事你覺得我們國家做得夠嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
532.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
560.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
委員我們國家還有非常非常多需要在這個性平的促進上做的事情包括在各機關那過去我服務的學校也必須要都有這些性平委員會相關的設置要對每一個人在尊重其他人尊嚴的立場上做非常多的措施跟提醒謝謝貝提名人第三個問題跟您請教一下我們先把第11條有說人民有言論、講學、著作及出版自由當然也包括新聞自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
560.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
582.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
但我接下來就想要問的是我們有一家台灣本來有一家中天電視台啦後來被NCC關台了你覺得這個做法有沒有侵害到新聞自由委員您知道作為司法被提名人我不能夠評論個案不過新聞自由的保障當然是非常重要以後第一句開場白可以檢閱啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
585.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
607.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以新聞自由當然是非常重要所以在任何涉及新聞自由的這個決定上都必須要非常審慎尤其大法官對於言論自由的實質限制這個保障上是採取嚴格審查標準的那所以對於所有的處分都必須要這個非常嚴格的來加以審視那NCC關中天這件事情你覺得他有審慎嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
631.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為我秀出這個圖給你看嘛因為當初NCC關中天有一個理由是說中天常常被檢舉常常被裁罰但常常被檢舉我不知道為什麼可以構成一個理由如果可以構成理由的話假設今天大家很討厭一家電視台你只要發動群眾去檢舉他他就會收到很多檢舉嘛所以換句話說收到檢舉不應該是他要關一家 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
632.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
657.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
電視台的一個理由之一這個理由是完全不能夠當作理由第二個就是NCC講說中天因為被裁罰很多可是你看喔這邊列出來中天後來有針對11個被裁罰的案子去上訴結果目前為止有三件就是第三點、第五點、第六點這三件已經定驗了就行政法院已經確定中天勝訴另外有八件 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
658.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
685.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
還沒有定讞但是一審二審通通都中天都是勝訴但問題事件來了啊當時NCC講說這家電視台不OK因為你常常被罰可是當初你裁罰人家最後都被法院推翻認為你濫罰可是問題是這家電視台已經在有線電視頻道上面看不到所以我那被提名的你不覺得說這是NCC對於新聞自由一個很大的殘害嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
688.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
710.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
法院在判斷新聞自由受到限制的這些個案必須要非常審慎要依據憲法法庭說法院還是NCC我說法院因為那個報告委員我畢竟是這個法院的提名人所以在這裡可以看到法院是非常審慎的但因為憲法是人民權利的保障書嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
710.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
726.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
當然也包括新聞自由跟言論自由那憲法最主要為什麼叫人民權利保障書因為要防止行政權侵害人民嘛那NCC就是行政權所以我今天談的是行政權所以這件事情我想要問您的看法啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
727.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
748.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
就是如果說我們的政府機關因為不喜歡人家電視台就可以巧立名目說你因為你被檢舉太多或者是說哎呀你常常被裁罰可是問題是這些裁罰最後都被證明說是濫罰那這樣到底有沒有侵害言論自由侵害新聞自由美國是最重視新聞自由的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
748.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
773.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
美國有一個開國元勳講說如果有報紙而無政府或者是有政府而無報紙他將毫不遲疑的選擇有報紙而無政府意思是說新聞自由是非常重要的一件事情新聞自由是民主政治的基石他們認為說你如果侵害到新聞自由的話其他的自由都沒有辦法保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
774.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
793.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
因為輿論的重要嘛但我們政府不是啊我們政府是你一直批評政府監督政府給你裁罰裁罰濫罰之後呢再告訴你說因為你被罰很多所以我要把你關掉你覺得以事後來看我們的政府有保障到新聞自由嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
794.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
812.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你要站在憲法是人民權利的保障書這個角度去看這個事情我們的新聞自由有被保障嗎所以委員我剛剛提到說新聞自由的保障非常重要大法官認為限制新聞自由要用最嚴格的審查標準那怎麼辦那現在已經台灣已經現在新聞自由已經被侵害了那有什麼救濟管道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
813.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
842.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
行政權限制新聞自由的部分法院當然也要秉持剛剛所講的這個原則來做審查跟決定所以這個是在我所領導下的法院那即使所有法官依據憲法法律獨立審判也一樣會對新聞自由的限制做嚴格審查其實從您的談話裡面因為你講都比較閃躲我不曉得我這樣歸納對不對就是說你認為確實這個行政權好像有侵害到新聞自由但是法院一定會做最後一道防線 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
843.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
868.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
如果要限制新聞自由,一定會做最嚴格的審判來保障,您的意思是這樣嗎?是,我沒有刪多法委員的問題。作為司法被提名人,這個是我自己認知到的回答方式。謝謝您,算是蠻有道德勇氣講出這句話。但我想問,現在中天已經被關掉了,好幾年了。他的權力被侵害怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
869.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
877.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
因為我們至少有3年是在電視有線頻道上看不到中天那怎麼辦呢?有任何的救濟方式嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
879.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
905.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我所能夠說的就是任何新聞自由的限制那如果在訴訟上法院必須要嚴格的來加以這個審視他的限制那另外就是說當他的權力的侵害如果確認那法官當然要依法來加以保障那我相信我們的行政訴訟法行政法院有一些不同的相關的措施我現在其實從頭到尾都是肯定法院啊你看法院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
906.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
924.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
都蠻一致的嘛我現在講的是行政權侵害新聞自由這塊對但是報告委員因為作為司法被提名人就這個部分我沒有辦法行政權的行使然後再來齁我跟你請教一下另外一個就是剛剛也有很多委員問的死刑的問題因為廢死這個議題在我們台灣算是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
926.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
944.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
大家很關注的話題那您曾經在2014年台灣死刑報告裡面有篇文章那你是主筆嘛那大家看完這個之後都覺得說好像您的立場就是覺得必須要完全廢死那我不知道說這樣對您的判斷是有正確嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
946.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
969.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我剛剛有回答過另外一個委員事實上是不正確的這個臺灣死刑報告是在我國國內法化兩公約之後那因為英國人權團體那到亞洲國家去檢視在公正公約第6條國內法化之後那對於死刑的科處以及相關的執行以及他的實體跟程序要如何加以來適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
969.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
993.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以我剛剛特別說明這個報告當中其實有許多的個案用我們今天的標準那我們也一樣會認為這個不管是他程序上的缺漏包括其中有一個個案是監察院已經認定當初的過程有行囚那另外就是早年沒關係我只是確認你的立場而已所以你的立場是說有一些個案你覺得要不能用死刑但是你沒有說台灣社會不能有死刑是這樣子嗎是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
994.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1015.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
在這個報告裡頭確實是,然後同時憲法法庭的裁判也是如此所以你對於死刑的態度,你並沒有說主張要廢死?沒有?沒有?還是你主張廢死?我能夠做的是遵守憲法法庭的裁判因為未來,提名人未來,你現在也有可能啦,如果通過審查就成為大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1016.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1042.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那如果也有人去申請釋憲然後又是跟死刑相關的議題啊您會覺得死刑是違憲嗎?或者是說因為憲法法庭第8號判決您認同嗎?因為他們是名義上是沒有廢死啦但是實際上訂了很多關卡嘛讓死刑的執行非常困難所以我們都講他是實質廢死啦那您的看法是怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1043.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1068.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
委員死刑這個議題然後包括這次大法官憲法法庭的裁判其實已經對我們的社會的討論造成了很多的分裂所以作為這個將來的審判長的被提名人那我必須要做的是就是對目前已經這個生效的憲法法庭的裁判那他的第一句第一段話就是認為目前在我國的死刑是核限的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1069.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1094.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
但是在程序跟實體上那需要做很尖閣的使用這個是我必須要遵守那我剛剛也回過了我回過打過前面委員的問題是說在這樣的基礎上那個我認為我們司法裁判的穩定性必須要加以維持其實從上一次大法官對死刑做成相關的裁判我時間快到了你的立場是什麼因為我還有別的問題我必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1095.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1108.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我必須要維持我不會在我司法職位上這個我必須要去維持現在憲法法庭裁判的權威性那這個憲法法庭的裁判你的判斷嘛你的價值嘛你認為死刑應不該廢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1109.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1137.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我的判斷跟價值是認為我們憲法跟法治裁判的維持比我個人的信念還要來得更重要你的信念是什麼生命權要加以保障被害人的生命權要加以保障被害人人權應該加以保障但是被害人人權不應該保障到去侵害到加害人的人權我不知道說這個被提名的人你有沒有看到那種受害者的家屬每一次聲嘶力竭的所台灣的刑法 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1138.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1166.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
根本就沒有無期徒刑啊因為無期徒刑最後都會假釋變有期徒刑真正受無期徒刑的都是這些被害人的家屬因為他們一輩子都要受到這種傷痛所以我現在在法律上面為什麼大家不能夠接受廢死當然就是因為每次好像都過於的保障加害人人權可是那被害人人權啊所以不知道貝提名你的看法是怎樣我看起來好像你沒有要正面回答這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1167.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1190.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那接下來再跟你請教一下有一個在有一個之前是蠻多學生在討論的一個話題就是您曾經在學校出了一個題目說好像有一個學生利用假日期間到學校去做了一個抗議活動然後結果後來這個學生被學校處分了寄兩大過處分然後後來這個學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1192.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1221.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
覺得他的權益被侵害想要做司法救濟就跑去問其他同學請問同學這個學生他在學校做這樣的類似抗議的活動被學校記過到底能不能得到司法上面的救濟呢你自己如果是問你的話你的答案是什麼剩15秒委員這個根據後來做的憲法解釋跟憲法裁判學生是可以獲得救濟的可以獲得救濟理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1221.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1245.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
理由是因為學生並不會因為他跟學校之間的關係有特別權利關係那就影響他的身份的權利那好謝謝葉委員謝謝張備提名人報告全院委員會 |
| IVOD_ID |
158070 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158070 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-10 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-10T11:29:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-10T11:50:32+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |