| video_url |
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| 委員名稱 |
陳玉珍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:55:59 - 10:16:57 |
| 影片長度 |
1258 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名張文貞、姚立明、何賴傑、陳運財、王碧芳、廖福特、劉靜怡7位為司法院大法官，並以張文貞為院長、姚立明為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席我們請這個被提名人齁,院長請張被提名人答詢提名人齁,早啊委員長,我不會來這邊這個跟你尊尊教誨齁跟你講這個立法院黨派之間有什麼不同的意見我先請教您看到那一桌那個藝術品嘛看起來像什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
59.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
86.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我倒是不太知道他看起來像什麼,不過他好像拿著一個秤嗎?對,那個是天平。天平的象徵你知道嗎?公平。對,公平嘛。所以他是這個,他是印尼回來,我從印尼3600公里抬回來,看到這個時候想到我們的大法官。因為你知道他的象徵意義嗎?你感覺他的象徵意義是什麼?他的面目是不是真龍?真靈? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
87.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
115.471 |
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面目是有點猙獰是你覺得他是神還是鬼呢這個我難以判斷難以判斷喔這個是印尼的一個藝術品他代表是這一位也是神他是神他代表這一位神明呢他聚集了正義的力量然後抵抗司法不正義的對抗他是正義的化身看到了嗎他拿了一個天秤他是正義的化身 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
116.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
121.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這當然也是我們對法官的趨勢沒有問題你知道他的下場是什麼嗎在他的什麼下面嗎他的下場最後在這個我去參觀這個藝術館的時候我說那這個後來怎麼樣這我倒是不了解被燒掉原因是什麼因為沒有主持正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
137.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
153.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
如果您主持正義,您就成了神,人們心目中的神。如果你不主持正義,您就會變成鬼,被燒掉,被送到陰間裡頭去。這在印尼裡頭是這樣子的。所以在這裡是要特別的期許我們的,尤其您是未來我們的準司法院院長,我們要特別的期許這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
155.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
175.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
公平正義永遠要在你的心中那剛剛我針對這個我聽到這個吳世耀委員在說就是說我們女性不容易您當然也是研究性平觀念不容易那如果今天有一位女性女性的這個大法官可以擔任我們的司法院院長我們也是身為女性我也是覺得欲有榮焉但是我們女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
176.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
200.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
如果要擔任任何的職務﹖不管是立委﹖或是這樣大法官﹖或甚至當委員之首的時候﹖我們應該也不是只是憑著我們的﹖這個說我們身為女性的這種保護傘吧﹖你這麼贊同嗎當然完全認同﹖我相信是本學的專業﹖不是因為我們是女性﹖我們就被提名﹖不是因為我們是女性﹖我們就被提名為大法官﹖被提名為院長吧﹖對吧當然不是對嘛也是要因為我們自己有一定的這個成就﹖一定的這個威望﹖這個你認同吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
202.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
222.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
完全認同,我也希望是我的憲法專業是,那我來看看你的憲法專業您要被評為司法院院長當然要有各種的威望、領導各方面、學術專業、你的人權保障我想請問你,我看到你的自傳你說您被提名的資格跟條件是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
223.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
242.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
是不是司法院組織法第4條第1項第5款的承認國際法庭法官：沒有嗎或在學術機構從事公法學或比較法學：這個有吧有當然有有在學術機構從事公法學之研究：這個沒問題而有權威著作者：是這個嗎行文是用這一款嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
243.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
265.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是我想我是用這一款被提名的那我想請教一下那我不好意思我比較孤陋寡聞我在這之前從來也沒聽過我們張文貞大法官準大法官的這個相關的這個也沒有拜過您的相關著作我記得我在念書的時候您只有到我世界台大的學姐我在念書的時候至少我會在念法研所 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
265.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
290.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我至少讀過我們看我們以前的這些相關的這個院長翁岳昇、許忠麗翁岳昇我們院長他有行政法我至少買過他的行政法上下課我都拜讀過許忠麗是我大學的時候的教授他至少也在相當多的這個你看論述裡頭憲法與法治國家行政法與國家權力他有相關的這個論述我至少覺得他們是著作等生 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
291.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
320.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這都是我們的前輩我們都是很尊重所以被提名為院長我覺得是當之無愧啦我就努力的在想說您有什麼樣的著作本身有什麼權威著作今天可以來擔任我們的這個司法院院長呢我仔細的看了你提供的這些資料就是有關你的著作你有提供給我們參考嗎除了你的學位論文就不談了這每個人都有的以外您的這個專書裡頭我看一下我們先看中文部分有哪一本是你自己寫的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
322.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
323.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
全部也都是一篇一篇的論文嗎 沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
348.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
358.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我沒有誣衊你喔這個是你寫的你提供的資料你的外文著作裡頭看起來都是跟人家合編的喔1、2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19外文著作裡頭齁32樣啦齁不管是那個沒有看到一本是你寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
369.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
381.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
全部都是跟別人合編的或是你的論文被收在那個比如說牛津什麼期刊啊法律期刊裡頭那你的期刊裡頭都是頁數這麼多筆全部都是頁數 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
385.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
398.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
呃41筆全部都是第幾頁到第幾頁外文裡頭也全部都是第幾頁到第幾頁我可以請教您啊這個您著作本身如果您要稱為是有權威的著作可以提供一本讓我去拜讀嗎哪一本是你的權威著作 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
399.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
415.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
報告委員我在2010年在2015年2022年2019年在牛津大學的這個國際憲法教期刊裡頭那都有這個得獎的著作當然不是一整本喔原一篇文章寫得不錯嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
417.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
429.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們這個新一代的學者那我過去長期耕耘於國際憲法的這個相關的國際出版那所以可能委員在國內的專書當中比較沒有機會看到國際我還特別看了一篇國際的裡頭我還特別看了一篇國際的裡頭我還懷疑你這篇根本就是第19篇就是這個亞洲 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
440.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
法律、法學評論裡頭的我還懷疑這篇根本就是中文啊這個前面這篇行政審查這篇的這個翻譯而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
449.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
471.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
來 沒關係 你說你出了很多在文章 論文在這個很多法學 著名的法學期刊不好意思 我也投過稿我先請問 這樣叫著作等身喔 這樣叫權威著作我們國內有這麼多優秀的法律學者我不是說你不夠好 你非常優秀但是今天對我來講 要擔任一個司法院的院長喔不只是大法官啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
487.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
權威諸董翁岳昇我想鼎鼎大名許仲麗大家也都是聽過也很多法律的這個學生也都拜託過我沒有辦法我後來勉強找一本我勉強找一本可能是你的權威諸董的這一本書 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
488.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
消除對婦女一切形式、歧視、公約勉強找到一本你的權威著作我覺得這本看起來是比較像權威著作因為不過你也是編而已嘛好像還不是主編啦旁邊有15位學者一起出的文章另外關小薇還出了更多篇那這位應該可以提名為副院長吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
513.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
517.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
然後其他的我們葉毅然委員也有寫在裡頭 裡面很多我認識的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
519.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
545.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
您告訴我您何德何能啊我不是說你不夠優秀你不要誤會我非常尊重你何德何能當我們的司法院院長司法院院長是對全國不管是法律界律師、實務界學術界各方面要嘛學術界你出座等身要嘛你在法院系統裡頭你是一個相當有經驗的這個做法律這個裁判的法官要嘛你在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
546.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
法律審判實務是一個非常卓富聖名的司法的捍衛者律師、大律師我不知道哪一點可以讓我說服你你的詮問書是哪一本 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
561.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
583.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
2015年我著作了一本Asian Courts in Context是牛津大學法學出版社所出版另外在2014年我也出版了一本Constitutionalism in Asia那也是英國出版社所出版那Constitutionalism in Asia亞洲憲政主義的這個專頁是他有1000多頁他是全球第一本有1000多頁1000多頁都是您寫的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
591.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
620.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
不是,我們四位所共同,包括委員那一本重要的就是全球憲法的第一本是他一千多頁,所以如果一定要處理四位是你編的是不是?是你主編的?他是我們編著是你編的嗎?所以你是一個很好的編輯,我沒有疑問並不是那你也寫了幾篇嗎?就跟這個一樣那個是我掛名第一位的國際從來沒有過的第一本亞洲憲法的專輯請問在14,在這個一千多頁裡頭有多少位作者? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
621.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
4位作者 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
656.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們不是針對你,我們是比較以前的翁岳昇大法官、我們的許中麗院長過去的大法官跟院長並沒有國際上的權威著作所以因為你特別有國際上的權威著作,你覺得那樣是權威著作的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
658.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
委員我也是現在國際憲法學會的教授先生我特別想請教你幾個議題我看到憲法第8號的判決判處死刑應經各級法院合議法官一致決你有看到這個判決吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
680.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
692.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
是這個原因是因為死刑是不是因為死刑是因為剝奪人民的生命權相當重要沒錯吧是所以應該要一致決 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
693.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
717.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
報告委員這個大法官在這個憲判裏頭很清楚的移動到我其他我看過因為我是今天是質詢您請問您是不是認同是因為沒關係這個本來個人有個人的想法人治廢人不是這個我事實上很尊重我會說這個他的一致決的原因是不是因為他的背後的原因是不是因為說因為此行實在是剝奪人民的這個生命權嘛非常重要所以應該一致決對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
719.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
730.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
大法官是基於最嚴格正當程序的考量所以因為很重要要剝奪一根死刑而不是說無期徒刑關到怎麼樣是嗎沒錯吧所以這個應該你也贊同吧委員我剛剛已經重複說過我說你贊不贊同 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
735.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
757.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我必須要遵守憲法法庭所作成的判決你事實上你的文章有多多有寫你支持廢死的那個沒關係你贊同也OK啦就本來有不同意見你現在在這裡不敢講說你贊同喔並不是委員我應該尊重那個法制所以作為任何國家的一個司法最高職位的被提名人他一定必須要遵守這個國家憲法法庭所作的判決所以你贊成廢死是因為你被當了這個這個準提名人就被當了準院長所以你贊同啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
764.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
788.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那如果你今天撇開你沒有：你身為一個學者：撇開你沒有被提名：你會贊同嗎?委員：大法官所做的憲法裁判：有拘束全國各機關及人民：這你現在沒被拘束學術：學者如果什麼都被拘束：學者還要評論嗎?學者就完全教本宣科：你是活在共產主義國家學者就是要勇於創新：想出自己的想法才叫學者嗎?你還這樣還叫著作本身喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
788.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
803.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你不能有創新的想法你今天可以做這個婦女的女權啊性別平權的這個嗎我只是問你這這沒有什麼疑問的我只是這個我事實上我覺得這些知識廢死的大法官有他們的想法他們可能是覺得這個我是想說這是不是因為這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
804.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
809.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
委員大法官作成的決定的基礎是立法院國內法化的公正公約的第6條以及他的第36號一般性意見要求要有最嚴格的對當陳述我想請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
824.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
846.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以你都不願意針對問題回答我只是問你支持不支持Face你對Face的看法你也不願意回答我真的很難期待如果你當院長的時候如果下面的人有一些問題問你說這個按照法律應該怎麼怎樣然後你都沒有辦法給他們答案身為一個領導領導是要有自己的想法蔡英文以前有自己的想法打臉自己以前的想法她也是勇往直前 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
847.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
852.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
委員 作為一個司法院院長的被提名人以及將來憲法法庭的審判長我唯一能夠回答的我唯一必須要捍衛的就是憲法法庭的裁判那這個很重要我的看法覺得說事實上他覺得說要一致決那你覺得這個我們立法院通過各種政策重不重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
875.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
900.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
就是攸關的重大的國家：不管剛剛吳小雯講的那些重大什麼採劃法：什麼各方面的這些政策是不是對國家影響也很大立法院當然是一個非常重要的代理機關用過這些法律也是相當重要的吧立法政策的行使跟裁量當然也非常重要因為這個重要性雖然不一樣但是它也不會屬於這個對人民生命權剝奪的剝奪的生命權的重要性嘛不同領域啊但是也相當重要對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
901.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
926.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
當然,因為...當然相當重要,好,謝謝你我也知道相當重要那在他相當重要的情況下如果大法官,這個憲法法庭要判這個一樣非常重要的這個國家的政策我們立法院通過法律,它是違憲的那也當然我們應該要學習大法官這樣的精神啊一致決憲法法庭就應該一致決啊,對嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
929.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
936.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這是不對的為什麼不對呢委員因為憲法法庭並沒有個案生命權擔奪的權利不是我們通過國會改革無法嗎憲法法庭不是跟我們針對這個來做釋憲嗎因為很多憲政機關提起嘛對不對我覺得憲法法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
944.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
954.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
既然如此的尊重生命權．覺得任何人生命權的剝奪．就應該要各級法院的一致決．對跟生命權一樣重要的法義． |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
962.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
985.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
就是這個立法通過這些各項的政策啊法令他也是相當重要的在憲法法庭在裁判他是不是違憲的時候我們憲法法庭不能只能也是要反求諸己啊不能說你各級法院判的時候你都要給我一字決到了我憲法法庭做釋憲的時候就不用一字決 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
987.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1012.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這樣是不是太嚴以待人寬與利己啊?委員,美國聯邦最高法院也是如此。在美國的各級法院...美國聯邦最高法院有沒有做出什麼判決說這個憲法...比如說死刑這種,就是...不要說死刑,其他各方面的這個判決都要一致決才可以通過。如果今天先進的美國憲法也說各樣的法律判決、各樣的人民的法議的這個... |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1016.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1032.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
每一級法院每一位法官都要一次絕話你今天舉美國當例子我沒有意見有沒有這種規定啊美國有的美國有這種規定說美國聯邦最高法院曾經要求各州法院在進行這個最終法院最終法院請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1036.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1053.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以他要求各州法院在做成最嚴重罪行跟死刑的科處的時候陪審團必須要進行一致決那尤其要進行陪審團每一個成績嗎每一個成績是不是陪審團因為只有在一審所以當然只有在一審所以他又要求要一致決吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1053.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1078.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
但是美國聯邦最高法院在做成這個要求的時候﹖他自己當然不是一次決﹖他還是採取上來的多次決﹖所以您剛剛問到的是有這樣的外國法律﹖所以大法官﹖所有最高的憲法﹖掌管憲法的大法官﹖在要求下級法院做判決的時候都要求一次決﹖對不對﹖但是對於自己要做所謂釋憲的解釋的時候都不要求一次決﹖這是現在的實況是吧﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1079.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1099.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這是因為大法官做的是抽象規範的解釋大法官不會直接去剝奪一個個人的身份權大法官不會大法官不會嗎今天你跟我講大法官今天做的你再講一次大法官今天做的任何的事宣你現在講對於這個憲法法院所判決不會剝奪人民實質的權益喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1101.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1130.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
不會剝奪人民的生命權大法官的審查法庭的裁判因為不是只針對死刑告訴你我現在跟我們在討論的是說大法官要求所有的法院各域法院做一致決的時候自己做事先的時候這些更重要的很多法議啊包括國家怎麼改革啊這個監察院啊各個法院各個縣機關的權利行使的時候竟然不用要求做一致決那你說這個不會你剛剛說法是這個是不會反正不會不會因為法政策通常不一定跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1130.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1131.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
陳玉珍 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1154.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1169.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我把你這句話說清楚我們一定要講很清楚不然我誤解你憲法法庭所做的判決或者是解釋各方面以前叫解釋的裁判不會直接影響人民的權益就對了這是你的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1170.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1177.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
憲法法庭的裁判的對象：如果是判決：而當這個判決：或是憲政機關提出了任何視線：因為人民也有嘛：人民也有提出相關的這個：視線的這個：也有過嘛：很多啦：憲法說不會：不會直接影響人民的權益：對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1186.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1214.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
你剛剛是這樣講嗎?我剛剛不是這樣講那你講清楚喔是,憲法法庭做成的判決如果對像是下級法院的裁判的時候如果是人民呢?如果是人民呢?憲法法庭只能夠撤銷發回所以憲法法庭沒有辦法直接對個案做成決定所以不會,所以因為是這樣的制度設計所以他所做出的裁判不管是對憲政計畫或者對那個百姓提出的不會直接影響人民的權利對吧?他不會直接影響這個個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1215.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1243.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
對阿 個案就是有一個一個因為個案需要由下級法院來做決定憲法法院只能夠撤銷發回那這樣是不是不會直接影響到人民的權利我只要這一句話 會不會憲法法院做成所有的憲法裁判都會影響人民的權利你剛剛前面講不是這樣子阿剛剛講說不會影響人民的權利所以不用一次決阿委員您剛剛問到的是憲法法庭會不會直接剝奪人民的生命權我沒有問剝奪人民的生命權生命權當然不是我問的阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1243.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1245.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
好,謝謝陳委員、謝謝貝提米爾下一位我們請林淑芬委員詢問 |
| IVOD_ID |
158066 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158066 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-10 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-10T09:55:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-10T10:16:57+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |