| IVOD_ID |
15805 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15805 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-15T08:31:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-15T15:36:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
07:04:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685af422f9e9122ef27ee90efa99573c3413be8d109af184be4b30442e59b21690a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部就「數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【4月15日及17日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:27 - 15:36:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1778.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1786.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事院選讀上市會議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年4月8日星期一9時1分至12時59分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1794.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1820.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
4月10日星期三95分至13時37分地點群賢樓801會議室出席委員陳昭芝等14人列席委員鄭天才等28人請假委員廖偉祥參加世界台灣商會聯合總會考察列席官員4月8日勞動部部長許明春等相關人員4月10日衛生福利部部長薛瑞元等相關人員主席黃兆吉委員秀芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1821.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1838.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
4月8日報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定、確定、邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總署、權序部、教育部、國防部就安心、生養、事辦彈性育嬰價及如何提高男性育嬰流停比例進行專題報告．並備質詢。本日會議由勞動部部長報告後委員陳昭芝等21人提出質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1844.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1857.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
軍經勞動部部長、全序部全審司司長王永大、國防部人事參謀次長室人事管理處處長孔乃德及教育部人事處處長王崇斌及各相關主管等及其答覆委員廖偉祥、楊耀、黃仁、黃珊珊、陳金輝、 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1860.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1880.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
蘇清泉及陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其鎖定通過臨時提案四項四月十日討論事項一審查委員邱益穎等25人擬聚再生醫療法草案等三案二審查委員邱益穎等25人擬聚 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1887.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1915.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
再生醫療治劑條例草案等三案本日會議討論事項綜合詢答經委員邱益穎及羅廷偉說明提案指去由衛生福利部部長及各相關主管等及其答覆委員邱政軍、林德福、邱志偉及羅廷偉所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報決議一說明及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從期鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1916.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1941.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
三、再生醫療法草案等三案及再生醫療自治條例草案等三案令則其繼續審查。宣讀完畢。好,請問委員會上次議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處?如果沒有的話我們議事錄確定。那本日議程為邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1941.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1969.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
就數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討．進行專題報告．並備質詢。那現在介紹現場的委員及列席的官員陳昭芝委員林月琴委員王振旭委員我們介紹現場的出席的官員衛福部薛樂園部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1970.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1996.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
保護服務司張秀淵司長、心理健康司陳亮宇司長、內政部警政署防治組施義仙副組長、內政部檢察司簡美惠副司長、教育部國民及學前教育署戴淑芬副署長、學生事務及特殊教育司許惠清專門委員、 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1998.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2026.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
數位發展部資源管理司曾文芳副司長國家通傳會網際網路傳播辦公室張文旭主任文化部人文及出版司廖妮妮專門委員影視及流行音樂發展司陳怡靜專門委員金管會政期局李采珍專門委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2029.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2033.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好謝謝以上列席的官員那接下來我們就請衛福部薛樂園部長報告時間5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2044.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2058.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席、各位委員、女士先生今天是大院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開的全體委員會議本部呈邀列席報告深感榮幸之就 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2060.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2079.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討提出專案報告,竟請各位委員不吝會議指教。近3年有關兒童及少年性剝削的被害人數從1879人增加到3346人, |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2085.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2106.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
其中以兒童及少年性剝削防治條例第二條第一項第三款拍攝、製造、散布兒童或少年之性影像等案件為最多,占總案件數的八成五因此此類數位兒少性剝削案件增加的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2109.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2136.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
本部在112年修正公布了兒童及少年性剝削防治條例的修正相關不法行為加重刑責境外犯善不兒少性影響罪納入處罰嚴懲犯罪配合本條例修正施行之後本部辦理的事項如下第一明定性 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2136.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2154.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
影像限制瀏覽或移儲的程序及實現那修正本條例的施行細則明確規範兒少性影像移儲下架的流程電子行政處分、送達的方式以及執行的相關規定加速現影像的移儲下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2154.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2174.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第二,建立性影像處理中心及提供諮詢服務。性影像處理中心接獲申訴後,先請通知網路業者限制瀏覽或移除性影像,並複製主管機關,由主管機關命業者移除、下架性影像。 112年8月15日至113年3月31日, |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2178.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2201.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
為止扣除重複資訊不足、無性影像、網址失效等無效案件之外,受理案件一共有767件。業者完成移除下架的一共有665件,移除成功率達86.7%。性影像處理中心受理民眾線上申訴並提供電話服務,服務時間上午9點至晚上22時。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2208.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2229.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
線上服務全年無休。第三建構兒少性相比對移除的機制112年7月建構兒少性相比對移除機制並辦理地方政府相關人員教育訓練增進地方主管機關協助兒少被害人在案件增審中請求重置 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2230.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2245.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
告案的被害人性影像同時連結民間團體主動比對移除兒少性影像112年5個月服務了7個個案那比對移除了153個性影像的檔案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2245.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2273.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第4提供被害人保護服務措施含斑了現已向被害人權益保障事項明定社政、警察、法院、教育及媒體等各主管機關的權限被害人可依年齡及兩照關係區分適用法規求助資訊以及被害人心理輔導與諮商、法律輔助等保護服務措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2275.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2294.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
5.辦理性影像限制瀏覽或移除程序的教育訓練 112年辦理了6場數位性暴力防治教育訓練參與人數達到878人次辦理性影像移除下架機制食物工作人員的培訓課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2296.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2313.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
就本條例第8條及第47條性影像移除通知及採訪程序行政處分的實效性影像移除的實現說明參與的人數達326人次第6辦理性影像防治的教育宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2315.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2329.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
本條例出了規定高級、中等以下學校每學年應辦理兒童及少年性剝削防止教育課程或者是教育宣導並納入課綱令本部定班兒童 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2330.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2354.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
及少年性剝削方式宣導計劃製作相關宣導教育素材、協同教育部、通傳會、內政部、法務部等相關部會及各直轄縣市政府就性影像拍攝、散布及持有新興網路犯罪手法、網路風險及安全防患資能、刑事罰則加強宣導並 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2358.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2374.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
強化兒少自我保護的意識為防止兒少造性剝削、遏止兒少性影像散布等犯行本部秉持林永仁的態度針對本條例有關提高持有兒少性影像支付觀賞兒少性影像刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2375.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2405.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
增加持有與知父觀賞的行為太陽以及電子行政處分及遺囑下架實現行政裁罰相關的程序簡化等規定本部將儘速邀請相關部會員以適時修正相關規定並透過網絡合作建構防護網本部曾答應各委員的指教跟監督在此進階卸層並請各委員繼續予以支持以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2406.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2414.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 謝謝薛部長的報告有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報那因為時間的關係各部會的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2418.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2446.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個提前都已經有送來各位委員其實都已經有參與就不再做口頭的報告那現在開始詢答做以下的宣告本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4分鐘10點半截止發言登記委員如有書面質詢請於散會前提出預期不受理暫定10點30分休息5分鐘原則上11點30分處理臨時提案如有提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2447.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2454.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
請盡早提出以立議事進行。現在我們就請登記第一位陳昭之委員進行質詢。好,謝謝主席。有請薛部長。好,請部長。好,部長早。請問部長您知道所謂的涉及這個兒少性影像犯罪的內容包括什麼嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2477.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2485.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
對,就是這個內容所規範的部分我想包括這個拍攝、製造、散布、播送或是販賣相關的這個圖畫、影音或其他的物品都是被規範的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2491.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2510.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
根據衛福自己的統計數字當然剛剛你有最的更新那我們之前前幾天查的是這樣子的那個從2019年開始部長可以參考我投影片的這個underline這個劃線的部分2019年開始涉及兒少性影像犯罪的案件不斷的上升那2019年是到2023年之間從717案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2515.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2532.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
到2903案答4倍之多那其中其中性影像犯罪在整個性剝削防止條例裡面通報案件的占比從6成到將近9成剛剛您最新的報告也大概是將近9成所以這個部分在增加那部長請問您認為這個背後這個數字背後的意義是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2536.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2560.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
當然就是說,兒少性剝削條例裡面的這一個有幾款嘛?有4款。4款的裡面的話,那第三款的所謂的性影像的相關的這一個通報案件是最多的。目前達到8成5。當然就是因為網際網路的使用更為普遍。在這網路之間瀏覽的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2563.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2591.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
對,不過往今永路時其實已經發達了很久但是也因此散布、製作的行為就會...部長因為在4月10日在這個委員會當中有委員提到目前最重要的來源、通報來源還是要靠受害者自己來舉報性影響犯罪而且還要提供完整的資料假設資料不夠完整他是不能成案的那本席認為為了保護兒少的權益政府是不是應該要更主動 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2593.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2597.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
其實這種兒少性影像犯罪大概是兩個類型第一個是針對個人把這種性影像傳輸上去當然他的目的有些是為了要勒索等等這些我們先不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2619.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2633.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這是一種類型那這一種類型他所傳播上去的話是各種的這種載具都有可能包括說我們經常使用的社群媒體當然我們要怎麼樣教育這些但是還有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2634.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2659.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第二種情形是它是集中在一個網站這是通常是社群網站但是它裡面有提供的是兒少性影像部長我們等一下來稍後來討論這個什麼來做更有效的解決那根據保護師的資料您看到這個圖片在兒少性剝削的案件當中拍攝跟製造的這個影片你看這個最長你看好長就是說占的比率2022年是2000案將近2000案 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2664.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2684.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
但是你往上看的那一條公人閱覽的才不到50件那部長你覺得這個數字合理不是很奇怪嗎拍攝跟製造2000案公人閱覽的只有不到40分之一這個公人閱覽並不是影像是實體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2688.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2700.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
但是這個柱子放在一起就是非常奇怪我想事實上還有很多的黑數嘛部長那這個實況差這麼多就實際情況差這麼多你看到這麼多製造然後看的人是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2702.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2717.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
對這個部分部長、衛福部有沒有擬定什麼相關的對策來處理?太奇怪、太不對稱的一個數字所以這就是我剛剛跟委員報告的因為他有兩種類型那第二種類型的話才有可能說我們主動去做搜尋 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2719.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2740.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
也就是說那種社群網站我們技術上面應該是…反正衛護要多加油因為這個數字看起來是非常的奇怪下一張2023年修法之前這個有持有兒少性影像者大概第一次都是屬於行政罰款那第二次累犯才有刑事的這個罰金那去年修法的在右邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2741.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2751.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
就改成說持有兒少的性影像者最高可以處一年的徒刑那病科罰金30萬但事實上這樣的刑度部長你認為可以嚇阻嗎?足以嚇阻嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2754.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2769.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這當然就是說刑度是否足以嚇阻這個有時候不容易判斷啦當然依我們看起來這個刑度是最低的啦但是會比以前以前是完全沒有用刑法部長那除了純粹提高罰則我是認為應該叫就整個兒童兒少的性剝削的一個樣態去做一個檢討那看看是不是哪一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2778.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2793.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
做什麼方式是最有效來嚇阻的比如說在這個犯罪影片因為還有涉及追查嘛下架啦剛剛也有報告到犯罪證據的儲存這個部分公權力喔公權力應該要介入更深啦要介入更深 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2794.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2818.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
部長2023年好像一張性侵害防治司法有經過修正公告那衛福部成立了所謂的性影像處理中心網站成立這個網站我想大家都非常支持本來就覺得要盡最大努力來保護這個被害人那這個性影像處理中心請問部長這一年多的運作成效如何成效如何那您滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2819.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2840.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
他目前就是說有這種檢舉的有影像而且有網址的那就是剛剛報告的767案那成功移除下降有665案就86.7%但是有一些是他沒有影像或者是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2841.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2859.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
沒有網址或者網址是一個失效的那這種案子的話在這一段時間裡面也處理了863案但是他的這一個成案的比例就稍微是少了一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2861.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2882.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們一直覺得說黑數是會很多當然你設了一個這樣子的一個服務中心我覺得說當然他可以允許就是本人不用露面到場等等這個當然是有幫有助於這個通報我們看下一張去年8月有關這個下架影像的法條政治正式的施行之後當時衛福保護司開了記者會 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2886.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2908.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
說就是性影像處理中心去年2月到6月接獲1327件的這個案件叫去前一年的同期增加5倍那也顯示過去說這類的性暴力這個罪犯他存在很多黑數我認為到今天應該還是有很多的黑數那事實上我們前面看到拍攝跟製造的比率這麼高但是那個工人閱覽的部分這個不到50件 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2913.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2931.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那我想部長您應該也會同意在這個網路時代您剛剛也提到既然製造的量這麼多一定會被PO上網被PO上網所以部長這個想法您同不同意就是說有很多的黑數既然有這麼多製造事實上是我們可能不知道但是它被PO上網了是在網路上您同意這個說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2935.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2942.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這我可以同意因為現在都是靠被害人主動的去申訴我們可以再檢討那保務司有說有63個境外網路平台不配合移除下架這就是問題所在以這次黃紫嬌所持有的兒少性影像來源網站就是架設在國外的伺服器的境外網路平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2957.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2972.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那威富部對於這些沒有辦法配合這個下降有什麼對策呢?投降嗎?有沒有什麼對策?他那個網站其實以前也曾經封網過但是因為他改了一個網域之後的話又復活了 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2973.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2999.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
但是對這個我們要來處理部長這些性暴力性剝削的這個影片低額難下架那你封網之後他可以換個網址重新再來這個我們知道就是等於斬草不除跟春風吹幽聲嘛第三個因為你要有人檢舉你才要處理那面對這種集團式的犯罪我覺得是說衛福部難道就這樣比較積極被動嗎我們可以主動出擊例如利用科技科技去技術去突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3000.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3015.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那這次創意私房的案件已經有區塊鏈業者做出報告聽說已經交給檢方部長知道嗎?這個部分我是不清楚在這裡在手上在這裡他們已經把報告交給檢方而過去這個散布私密這個影像的這個業者他們認為這個虛擬貨幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3019.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3039.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
午法追蹤午法追蹤足跡但事實上現在科技做得到科技做得到我想不管是衛福部還有今天在在座的這個數位部法務部尤其是數位部你們的資金費資源是非常的豐富我覺得你們應該好好研究一下如何利用科技來去追溯這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3041.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3062.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
就是專門這個播放私密這個影像的網站除了下架還有封網之間應該從這個虛擬貨幣的金流這都是非法的金流這個部分去斷絕他們的收入來源這才是一個那個斬草除根的做法部長可以嗎要三個部會合作啊人家都做出來民間都做出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3063.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3083.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
政府難道跟不上嗎?我相信這個技術應該是可行啦那現在就是說要主動去搜尋這也是我剛剛所提到我們政府要有主動去搜尋這些網站對所以我最後的重點就是說要更主動積極嘛然後被害者的保護說要有法律的授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3084.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3084.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
陳昭智委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3113.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3137.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
接下來我們請林月琴委員進行諮詢麻煩我們的衛福部部長還有我們的內政部警政署防制組的那個師傅組長還有我們的數位發展部的資源管理師的副市長曾文芳好請 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3142.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3144.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
部長好,還有兩位組長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3151.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3176.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
部長大概這次透過黃子椒的這樣的一個事件我們大概知道有買方就有源源不斷的賣方那當時的立法理由事實上也講得非常的清楚就是說本來是有提出來德國跟奧地利不知道為什麼我們最後選擇是反而是清就刑度最輕的日本作為參考而且這個時間序要回溯到110年我們就已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3177.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3193.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
破獲了類似韓國的N號房可是112名訂這個法竟然會選擇我們的刑度最輕的我想大家都會有一些共識尤其是這次這個黃子嬌事件那因為剛被封的這個某論壇就高達5418位的會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3198.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3213.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我相信他們當然沒在怕的啦為什麼反正封了之後只要負擔3到30萬的罰金就可以脫身了因為如果從法來看的話只要3到30萬就可以脫身所以上週我們當然也跟其他委員有共識也就是說未來要提高刑度 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3214.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3240.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
不過我今天最大的疑問不是在行度未來36、38、39行度勢必是要去提高的我要問的是國家就沒有責任了嗎因為我不認為是這樣那上週在質詢後我們的衛福部立刻請書發部就把某個論壇封網了那根據執行單位同仁透露收到公文後10分鐘就可以封網了可是這網站10年 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3242.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3270.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
更特別的是110年的12月因為我們的法院請他停止解析一個月他又再再度的在這邊臺灣沸沸揚揚的持續在賣所以看起來是可以做為什麼做不到所以我今天要提醒的不是只有這個論壇有問題因為我的同仁透過關鍵字搜尋仍然有非常多疑似有違反性影像那剛好這幾天因為這個論壇被揭露之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3272.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3276.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
有很多受害人他再度的引起他情緒上的波浪 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3285.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3302.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
所以我覺得這非常的嚴重所以請問一下就是部長想問的是衛福部是看新聞辦案嗎?外流的問題其他的網站現在都有處理嗎?還有甚至有些已經死灰復燃的你們知道嗎?還是要等受害者來跟你報告? |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3303.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3332.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
以目前的這個機制來講那受害人的一個申訴是主要的來源這我必須要承認那但是說普遍的去搜尋這一個網路上面的網站到底有沒有這種涉及兒少的我相信技術上應該是可行但是我們需要法律授權因為這個會牽涉到有一點這個言論自由保障的問題是那如果要法律授權的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3333.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3350.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
此時也都沒有提出來所以看到這個從法定過後到今年為止那你被動的申訴所以每年大概只有9件的這樣的一個案子大家緩不濟急為什麼第一個被害人呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3350.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3368.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
他可能礙於很多原因他是不會來跟你申訴加害人怎麼可能來跟你申訴他就是希望他要下載這些影片怎麼可能來向你申訴呢所以我們就看到這個一年才處理9件而且衛福部的報告提到有新影像下架的受理案件大概767件 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3370.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3389.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
通知業者處理的是767件,完成移除的665件,感覺移除的成功率是86.7%,看起來很高可是這些影片不斷不斷的複製,最重要的還是這個論壇,可是一直都沒有再去處理它 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3390.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3415.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這就是我剛剛也跟那個陳昭志委員在回答的時候說到了其實這種犯罪是有兩種類型一種就是被害人他來檢舉他這一個這一個影片可能在任何的地方網路上的任何的地方所以我們針對那個影片要下架這是一種類型第二種類型就像剛剛委員所提到部長這是要止血你知道嗎否則的話以你們時間這個18天到5個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3418.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3439.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
5個月的期限都有可能這9件拖這麼久的話基本上這些受害的影像都一直在網路上一直被流傳所以前面那個下架移除的部分的話我們的執行的成功率是86.7%但是這一個封網的就只有9件原因就在於我們沒有辦法去主動搜尋我們沒有辦法說 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3448.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3464.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
如果假設法不夠,那就應該修法,或者是有沒有牽扯到經費的問題,否則你們做了這個流程到底解決了什麼問題?因為我們來看一個很大的問題,就是這事實上是衛福部提供給我們的流程,所以我想問一下部長,你如果看這流程有什麼問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3466.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3494.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這當然是時間程序是比較冗長難怪會走18天或是到5個月的一個時間點所以現在這一點也就是說因為我們從母法然後到去制定私隱細則私隱細則5到7條的部分的話這個程序是冗長的部長我覺得我告訴你最不能接受的兩件事情第一個目前影像中心處理的案源只是消極的被動的接受檢舉跟申訴因為我剛剛提過 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3495.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3496.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
第2個是近期協助在蜂王組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3518.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3519.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
臺灣網路資訊中心臺灣網路資訊中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3531.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3560.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
難怪會走18天到5個月的時間這個流程根本就是很荒謬可發文立即就可以封網的這個農場官僚作業我覺得簡直是國家級的笑話所以你上次上週部長你也霸氣的說當天就可以斷網那請問之前為什麼不做到底這個是流程的問題還是人的問題對那個是流程問題就是第一種類型我們的訂了一個那個適用系者他的流程就是這麼修長 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3561.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3586.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
要求三個禮拜那個是我跳過那個施行細則其實這個是在法律上有一些風險的原本他本來在110年就停止解析如果一發現因為這個論壇非常特別是他演唱性非常高其他的還不至於這樣可是為什麼沒有這麼積極的動作所以這邊是不是能夠關於這樣子的一個流程是不是應該要把我們的臺灣網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3589.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3591.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
的信息交換平臺警局報案的被害人的性影像目前沒有納入處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3607.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3630.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那我要求性影像中心要納入警局報案的案件第二個依照兒少性剝削條例第8條的第一項或性侵害防治法的第13條只要知道有犯罪嫌疑情勢的時候就先限制跟移除所以本席要求這個流程要立刻修正一旦性影像中心判讀有犯罪嫌疑的話例如是未成年的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3631.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3641.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
就立刻通知我們的速發部或者是通傳會來處理。部長這個可以做得到嗎?這要請速發部這邊表示一下意見吧。 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3645.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3667.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
可是速發部也是說要等你們的所以你們速度有多快速發部才能有多快就技術面來講其實我們就是接到正式的這個韓文以後其實我們就會協調TWC然後來去處理那但是就剛剛其實剛剛陳如委員說那就在程序面上可能內容的這個網站的內容是否違法的話可能還是要這個主管機關來 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3668.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3681.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以部長是不是要趕快咨詢因為影像在這邊因為我這幾天都受到受害人他們又在看到影片在上傳的時候對他們來講又是情緒崩潰所以速度請快一點在問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3688.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3708.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
這個到底是誰?第8條我們的網路內容防護機構指的是誰?不知道。如果是IWIN那我告訴你IWIN叫做行政小幫手他有五個婆婆有經濟部、教育部、通傳會、衛福部、內政部到底他先做誰的事情?他兒少權法授權他46條授權他他只做分級教育訓練、自律 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3709.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3726.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
然後他只通知平台移除所以我不知道可是這個法條是講說喔他可以去喔我不知道當初為什麼衛福部這邊會去看到說要來做這是我的第一個疑問第二個齁如果媽媽叫四個兄弟去掃地齁那大家都各自看誰要去掃地 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3726.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3755.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那你請了四個部會去做的時候那到底誰去做都可以去做可通通可能都沒有去做不是嗎所以如果要大家如果分工不明的話人人可管人人就不可管那所以也請我們的甚至聽聽警員的一些心聲因為目前看到經費不足然後呢他們人力不足我覺得這內政部也要去做一些檢討知道他的那個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3757.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3779.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以在這邊就期待要明定我們的專責單位就像剛剛部長講說如果法授權的話那有專責單位去海巡啊我覺得第一時間可以去做到所以成立跨部會的性犯罪的防治中心所以以上是我這四項期待我們的衛福部所以還有剛剛講的那個流程一個月內能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3781.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3795.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
修正過來以上謝謝我覺得只是把台灣網路資訊中心往前提到前面去因為你把它放到最後事實上是不可行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3797.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3812.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這事情沒有那麼簡單跟委員報告因為你涉及到原犯公權力的問題否則請問一下部長你要怎麼止血否則這個影像不斷的在流傳的時候那你多一天在網路上就多一天傳輸出去的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3813.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3834.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這個部分的話就是說對於網站的部分的話我們可以先來處理啦那就是說但是最後還是需要法律授權給我們不然我們做這件事情就有一點風險法律不是沒有授權給你們啊法律就是說你只要知道有犯罪情勢的話就可以去做處理了主動搜尋我們還不知道有犯罪我們就要去尋網路了 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3835.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3864.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
可是現在連明明你都知道這個有這個網站,你們也沒去做啊?那個是另外一回事,所以我們現在已經可以做了,封網這件事情我們會做,但是移除性影像的這件下架的事情,那是在各個不同的,那不是封網的問題,那不是個別的影像要讓它抓下來。我說現在目前已經有好幾個都已經事實上是存在的,那是不是優先做處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3867.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3887.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我手頭上就有好幾個了我手頭上沒有啊因為我沒有辦法去搜尋啊我還是要看人家檢舉啊有沒有啦因為否則那你就立推去做檢舉啊否則的話目前我們現在看不到你的更積極的作為是什麼要有人跟我做檢舉啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3889.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3912.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
可是現在申訴的人就是卡到這兩個問題點對啊所以我就說你要有讓我能夠主動去搜尋嘛那我可以委託一個團體或怎麼樣他每天就是來接受我們的委託就每天在那邊往上上面繞嘛好那部長你要講要多久的時間其實我們的真實點應該是在時間可是我覺得直選真的很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3914.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3917.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
主席、各位委員、各位媒體朋友、各位官員、大家早安。我想請部長還有法務部的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3942.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3945.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
好 我們請部長還有法務部的副司長早安 部長還有我們法務部的副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3956.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3977.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
上個週末網路上其實有非常多人看到這位藝人又有兩個未成年的受害者跳出來並且公佈他們當初如何被誘拐誘騙去拍攝私密的照片以及私密的影片的經過包括這位藝人當時的錄音檔然後瘋傳在網路上 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3978.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4005.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我是想請教一下我們有韓國的前車之鑑當初呢韓國有兩百萬人走上街頭要求法務部公開這些加害者的資料因為現在很多人關心大家都知道說這些非法的偷拍網站上面偷拍的場域遍佈了我們台灣的名校哦明星女高中還有大學還有一些公共的場所等等的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4007.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4016.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
大家已經對於這個藝人受到侵犯非常的不開心畢竟擁有未成年私密影像是一件大事結果呢根據2022年7月就有員警在媒體的這個採訪中 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4022.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4041.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
具名去表示說2022年7月創意私房就已經有6000個會員還有一個觸感空間有1200個會員但是你到2024年4月封網你覺得封網前部長你知道你封網前到底創意私房又多了幾個會員嗎這我不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4044.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4070.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
是但這件事情滋事體大因為已經延燒了非常的久我不希望我們像韓國一樣必須要全民發起抗議引發怒火然後你們才開始公布這些偵查的結果我是想知道說法務部有沒有什麼想法你們到底多久想要公開一下這個你們偵查的進度還有現在受害者有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4071.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4077.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
還有這個千千萬萬的黃子嬌這些購買未成年私密影片的人到底還有多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4079.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4079.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
有我把這一頁調出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4107.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4134.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以你覺得這件事情有沒有涉及公共利益還有涉及社會矚目的關鍵是報告委員因為案件是由地檢署的假官承辦那如果要公佈相關的訊息要由地檢署的假官來判斷所以要地檢署的假官來判斷說是不是符合偵查不公開作業辦法第8條上面所講的有您看一下右上角的新聞事件也認為因為創意私房涉及這個溫泉的偷拍片也很多人去過這個溫泉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4135.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4155.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
所以他們覺得將適度公開偵查的程序這部分我們尊重是林地簡的判斷對 所以你們我也想請問薛部長您重視了這麼多婦幼的議題現在有這麼多婦幼因為這樣子私密偷拍受到影響你會不會也覺得法務部應該要適度的公開他的偵查程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4157.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4171.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
公開偵查程序的話有幾個重要的這個點第一個就是說他為了偵查本身順利的話公開會有助於他的偵查進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4172.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4188.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那第二個的話就是涉及到公共利益所謂公共利益就是公開來預防說更多人的受害啦對我上個禮拜接到一個陳情人他就是創意私房的受害者他說在這個偷拍的網站上面有各種不同的樣貌 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4189.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4204.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
他自己的那一個category他的目錄總表就是布滿了這個高學歷的人啊等等的他是一個很知名的演講者所以偷拍者是跟著他到他演講的地方的廁所去拍的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4205.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4228.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
像這樣子不同的樣貌那裡面還有女高中生的還有在百貨公司的像這樣子你覺得不應該要讓大家知道說哪些地方應該要加強查緝他的廁所加強去偵測是不是有偷拍器或者是請家長告訴自己的小孩進去上廁所以前是不是要小心注意哪些這些難道不是公共利益嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4233.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4259.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這個當然某個程度來講的話是啦就是說如果說可以去去警示這個大眾那可以來避免這個當然是但是這個可能不是把個案把它公開的當然不是公開個案但是法務部可以做到的是在你們這些徵訊的過程你們有發現哪一些地方是高風險的地方這些你們應該是可以公開的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4259.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4283.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
向委員報告就如同委員所說的就是市林地檢他們現在已經受到適度的公開偵查程序所以如果沒有涉及個案只是預警一下說什麼地方可能是高風險區域的話那我們尊重市林地檢署的判斷好所以現在全民他的感受度就是大家看新聞看一些記者的深度調查可能都還比看法務部衛福部的報告還要快接下來謝謝法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4285.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4301.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我們看到你的這個性影像處理中心去年8月成立當時標榜的是可以快速下架全球都適用境外平台不再束手無策結果過短短三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4302.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4323.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
11月保護司司長就跑出來說我們的成案率遇到瓶頸只有25%好為什麼成案率這麼低申訴的人這麼多只有25%申訴成功其中包括三大瓶頸大概就是第一個他提供的性影像沒有辦法辨識是不是他本人第二呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4324.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4345.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這些網站很多是境外網站你跟他聯絡他根本不理你啊甚至要求你還要加入會員才可以跟他聯絡第三你們的申訴網站是寄信過去然後你會打電話回來很多人以為你們是詐騙集團所以沒有接電話因此你的報告寫得很漂亮你下架了600個700個影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4347.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4357.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
但是75%的申訴人他根本就沒有被處理欸因為你們的承認率極低啊你有想出改善承認率的方法了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4358.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4363.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好,剛很多委員已經問到了所以你們現在的成案率到底是多少?有提高了嗎?去年11月是25%啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4391.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4414.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
統統來講的話那大概是案件總計以112年8月開始到今年的3月31總共有2901個案件那目前來講那有王子那也就成案的部分大概767啦所以事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4415.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4443.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
兩千多跟七百六十七好我想這樣子大家看到這樣子的數據可能也覺得性向處理中心的他也不太敢再使用了啦剛剛有很多人遇到這一個就是民眾有時候就信心還沒有建立或是說他不習慣把這一個他發現了這種網頁網址把它登記下來所以提供的訊息是有誤的這沒有辦法如果是訊息有誤我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4443.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4472.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我好像跟你11月新聞稿不太一樣但是沒有關係剛剛有很多委員問到你的流程圖我也到保護司把你的流程圖找出來結果啊流程圖居然是4年前109年至今喔都沒有更新最大的問題我把它圈起來最大的問題是境外IP齁你只有通知教育部中華電信完全沒有速發部的角色啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4472.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4486.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
自從速發部成立以後從來沒有想過要把速發部拉進來這個流程圖難怪你找這些違法的平台要花這麼久的時間因為照你這些SOP速發部就置身事外啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4490.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4504.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個是有關於兒童少年權益保障法的部分的處理流程那它裡面有這種所謂的網際網路的相關的這些規範但是它比較focus的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4506.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4533.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這一些不是說以兒少為內政而是說如何來避免兒少性剝削所以你的意思是說境外IP速發布就沒事了?沒有當然當然那你今天會想要修改這個流程圖嗎?因為你剛剛跟你願請委員說你還要花蠻長時間才可以修改完成嗎?你也會把這個涵蓋進去嗎?現在我說要修改的時間可能要給一點時間要比較長的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4536.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4554.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
是有兩個部分我還是說第一個部分就是目前影片下架單獨影片下架的機制我們這個要來改因為上個禮拜的那個案子就是說我們如果依循著那個施行細則五至七條的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4555.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4572.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那這個就程序就比較長所以我們上一次就用行政執行法跟這個第8條上次是因為有別的委員質詢到你才開始做的如果沒有委員質詢其實你們就沒有要做了這是上禮拜被質詢你才做的那委員我跟你們報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4574.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4600.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
這個法規定在那個地方我們也不能說不執行啦施行細則所以其實上個禮拜那樣子的處理方式跳過施行細則的話是有一些法律風險的好 所以你這個表請你納入書發佈可以嗎這可以啦4年沒有更新的表也請你納入書發佈再來啊 這個也是最近一篇報導現在的男性受害人也越來越多有一個人叫阿力 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4601.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4622.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
他對網路是熟悉的所以他知道有你們這個影像處理中心的救濟辦法因此他半夜一兩點被網友詐騙說要裸聊的時候好他不小心拍了影片他在這篇報導中很詳細的描述他的心情啊他說他一兩點被拍非常的後悔因為那個人馬上要跟他勒索 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4623.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4627.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
結果呢他查你們影像處女中心九點才開門九點才可以打電話他躺在床上從一兩點躺到九點徹夜難眠好這件事有兩個風險第一他可能就把錢付出去了因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4639.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4658.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
誰會發生私密騙外流當然是晚上啊誰白天在跟人家裸聊就是晚上就是發生了高風險你的113家報都知道說要設24小時結果你的性影像處理中心只有開到10點然後10點以後就大家叫大家寄email進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4660.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4687.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
可是呢你跟我們要求的預算書裡面說24小時集中處理的服務但是你左邊的熱線只到晚上10點但是線上申訴是24小時好兩個風險第一個他可能就付錢嗎第二個過了這幾個小時他的影片都不知道傳到哪裡去了更多網站都擁有他的影片你覺得這樣子的設計是對的嗎因為這些事情對不起主席最後兩分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4689.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4713.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
對這些這個服務不是應該要延續到他事發的最高峰時間嗎?這部分當然我們可以檢討啦但是事實上24小時的一個處理的一個機制的話他還是有成本的好有成本但是你有編預算而且你的預算有寫是24小時處理這個我等一下也會做一個臨時提案具體的建議好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4715.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4735.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
最後我想問一下這是很多醫護人員非常關心的你3月8號說你這個夜間獎勵金一定會發放所以這些人沒有走上街頭結果過了一個月呢很多醫院已經把錢給護理人員了然後現在醫院都沒有拿到錢最後你說都卡在主計部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4736.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4751.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以請問這個什麼時候他們才拿到錢?這些是很多醫院很關心,所以我一定要幫忙問兩件事情,第一個就是二月的部分的話已經是發給醫院的就依照原來的那個月班費的比例對,但是那個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4753.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4753.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這個本席上次就質詢過了,你的這個辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4775.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4776.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
接下來我們請圖全級委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4814.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4814.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這個部長應該知道吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4835.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4856.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
網際網路平台提供者、網際網路應用服務提供者及網際網路接取服務提供者透過網路內容、防護機構、主管機關、警察機關或其他機關只有第4章之犯罪嫌疑情勢應先限制瀏覽或移除與第4章犯罪有關之網頁資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4858.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4878.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那就是知道有這些犯罪的事實的時候我們是可以有一些作為的那請問一下創意私房網站這個部長應該知道吧最近媒體上有在報導最近這個沸沸揚揚那也針對這一部分我們了解到我們衛福部在4月10號的時候有發函給速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4882.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4899.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
強制停止解析也就是他們俗稱的BAN掉那這一部分經過3月19日一審判決之後也經過我們王玉敏委員一再的催促我們就衛福部就發函給速發部BAN掉了這創意私房對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4901.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4927.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
對嘛好那針對這一部分我們可以瞭解到其實這個案件創意私房這案件後來我們瞭解其實在最早的時候在2020年9月30號我們進週刊就有進行了專題的報導那2021年初我們前立委王婉瑜就接獲舉報協助被害人撰寫這個刑事告發狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4929.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4936.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
22年檢察官就確定起訴那到了2024年3月19日一審定讞2024年4月10日衛福部發文速發布強制停止解析在2024年的4月10日速發布在下午6點半 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4947.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4971.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
就立即執行了這個官網的動作那表示這個事情其實最早的時候在2020年這個事情就已經有媒體有週刊把它爆發出來那我請問一下針對我們剛剛有問到兒少性剝削防治條例第8條就是發現犯罪嫌疑情勢的時候就可以像4月10號發函 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4974.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4984.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
訴發部強制停止解析那居然法律授權為什麼我們衛福部不在檢察官起訴的時候就編掉他就強制停止解析 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4987.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5011.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
第一個檢察官起訴的時候是否要編調這是檢察官要不要做這件事情因為檢察官本身是可以做這件事情那第二個的話就是說那衛福部可不可以做這個我們是可以做但是我們原來有一個施行細則第5到第7條他有一些程序要走 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5012.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5039.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那如果走這個程序的話那時間就會拉的比較長那所以在這一次我們4月10號的話我們是跳過那個試驗系者的程序直接引用那個第8條就直接做所以4月10號的時候才引用第8條嘛對不對所以衛福部就可以用第8條來處理這件事情對不對那為什麼不在檢察官起訴的時候就去做這個動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5040.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5066.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
因為我剛剛解釋因為有施行細則五到七條他的前置條件那後來你也沒有依施行細則你就處理阿對阿這個所以表示這個是有法律風險所以就可以做嗎這個是有法律風險的所以檢察官起訴的時候是可以做只是衛福部要不要做嗎對不對檢察官他本身是可以做他就是為了證據的後來也是衛福部直接用第八條來處理的不是嗎這次是兩條線都可以來做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5066.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5080.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
所以當初衛福部就沒有在第一時間選擇用第8條來處理這件事情嗎?所以你到4月12去做啊所以可以直接用第8條來做嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5081.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5109.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
因為你4月10日就是用第8條來處理的啊所以才會讓這個事情多流通了818天部長你看一下黃子嬌這個多了兩年多去買這個未成年的影片在2022年1月13號的時候檢察官就已經確定起訴喔我們姑且不論前面晉州刊的報導跟王婉瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5109.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5137.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
全立委就已經提供被害人撰寫這個刑事狀在2022年1月13日檢察官就已經確定起訴然後一直到2024年4月10日一審過後22天在我們立委委員強制一再催促之下我們衛福部才引用這個第8條去處理這件事情所以也讓這個犯罪的影像多流通了818天部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5141.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5167.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個818天你知道這中間多了多少成千上萬的影片多了多少的被害者也讓被害者多受了傷害818天欸部長這可能也不能完全用這樣去算啦因為這一個能夠去ban掉的這樣子的法律的規定那其實在2023年的時候也是曾經修法過啦所以這個還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5168.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5186.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
部長你最後還是4月10日還是用第8條來處理啊所以這個第8條你早在檢察官起訴的時候就可以用只是你衛福部沒有去做嘛那個是有法律風險比方說到時候有人去做試驗啦行政室說我們不會有啦所以部長我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5187.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5215.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
你看我們從多少事情從之前我們蘇丹紅事件再到保齡查釋再到虐兒這多少事情都是到民眾檢舉到有死人之後媒體大爆發我們衛福部才動作這跟這一樣啊2022年檢察官起訴了你不引用這個第8條去做等到今年4月12你還是引用第8條去做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5215.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5240.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我跟委員講過這個是有法律風險的啦不是說沒有風險行政機關也有可能要為此而負責報告部長你知道因為你們的延遲怠惰你知道讓多少人受害嗎這個是怠惰這個是不得已的我還是就是這個負了一個這種風險的責任去做這件事情的 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5244.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5263.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以還是4月時候還是用兒少防制剝削條例第8條來做嘛所以如果當初在2022年就引用早在818天前這個事情就處理了耶818天前的法律的這一個架構是不一樣的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5264.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5291.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
好 那有關衛福部時至113年4月10日才在國民黨立法委王玉敏在立法院質詢一再催促之下才發函速發部要求創意私房強制停止解析一事我覺得這個衛福部顯然自我設限甚至我覺得有違法堵職之職未能積極按照兒童及少年 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5291.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5315.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
性剝削防治第8條規定在知悉有犯罪嫌疑情勢之時即先限制瀏覽或移除犯罪有關之網頁資料而薛部長亦難逃這個政治責任我覺得衛福部這個消極的不作為讓無數的這些影片多了818天上架、流通、買賣這818天的衛福部的消極不作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5319.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5341.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
讓很多的女性請不能昧讓更多受害的孩童日夜錯氣致臺灣社會群情悲憤所以薛部長你們真的要好好的檢討那現在雖然在新舊總統交接之際內閣看守不代表我們政務可以失守那也希望我們薛部長針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5343.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5355.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
疫苗採購案、巴西進口彈、蘇丹紅闖關、凱開受虐致死、保齡茶室、創意私房等等的爭議之中我覺得協部長請你們針對貴部這一部分私職、賭職甚至行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5361.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5362.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
如果認為我有瀆職的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5382.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5392.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
所以我希望我之前就有跟部長講我也不知道是部長我們衛福部最近多事之秋還是怎麼樣從這個疫苗採購巴西進口但屬丹紅闖關 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5397.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5417.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
解開受虐致死、保齡查釋、創意私房你看這些所有的事情從食安五環這個破口最後一環民眾檢舉、媒體爆發然後最後這些食品中毒、兒童受虐致死等到最後我們衛福部才去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5418.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5427.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
處理的過程還在拼命說這是中央的責任這是地方的責任我覺得衛福部身為一個主管的機關部長真的希望我們衛福部好好的檢討現在我們全 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5434.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5434.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
接下來我們請盧憲一委員進行質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5469.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5475.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
有請數位發展部支援管理師。好,我們請曾文芳副市長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5487.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5511.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
市長好,因為我大概拿到了順便資料以後大概翻閱了一下想就的一些疑點能不能幫我解釋一下我剛剛看了就是第一頁說為網路業者為先行限制瀏覽移除而無正當理由是儲6萬元到60萬元以下並令限期改善你覺得還要等他限期改善嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5513.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5538.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個是這個依據兒少法的這個規定這個我們尊重因為現在這個越滾越大而且我們知道創意私房它在兩年內的收入是2880萬也就是說它的流量其實是非常高的也就是說可能是法規這邊太鬆散了所以才會導致說還有它一直存活下去的一個理由是不是你覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5541.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5548.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
而且這個罰款只有6萬元到60萬元是不是也太少了這個部分的話我們尊重這個衛福部主管機關的這個權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5551.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5576.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那我想問你一下就是說針對目前的交友網頁因為之前我們的N號房事件在韓國爆發以來那是屬於即時通訊跟Telegram建立多個聊天室所造成的那我們目前你翻開或者說你看你手機APP裡面很多交友軟體那你有去看過我們台灣的交友軟體有沒有可能造成這樣一個傷害嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5578.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5601.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
你有沒有去研究過?不好意思,其實我平常沒有用小肚我當然不希望你會用只是說你有沒有考慮過讓部會去了解這樣的一個狀況跟犯罪的一個連結是不是會有存在有沒有一個檢討機制或是什麼既然韓國在三年前發生了這樣的事情在台灣有沒有在做這樣的一個規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5603.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5624.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
不過其實就如剛剛衛福部部長有提到的這個部分的話其實這個網路的內容其實可能還牽涉到所謂的這個言論自由的問題那所以是不是要所以沒有在做這方面的一個所謂的預防性的一個檢測或是說能不能去預防性的去不要讓這件事情發生在臺灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5626.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5654.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
目前的話就閉步是沒有所以這個部分我們希望你們能夠去思考一下看怎麼樣在合情合理合法的狀況之下去來檢測出來好不好有關這個其實剛剛前面的陳昭智委員也有提到就是說是不是因為其實這些網站他們要重新復活然後重新申請域名架設新網站的這個成本其實很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5654.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5682.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那所以其實就這個行政部門來講要如何去降低我們的這個行政的執行的成本也很重要所以包括其實這個T-DOMINIC在建立這個RPZ機制的時候他其實就是透過這種機器對機器的這種方式來處理那所以剛剛委員垂詢的就是說如包括應用一些新的科技像說AI啦、Blockchain啦新的數位科技如果能有助於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5683.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5700.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我是希望有人在把關這件事情因為既然韓國發生了N號房事件那我們的交友軟體就應該有人在把關而不是讓他事情發生了再去做檢討是不是要有一個這方面的一個機制出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5702.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5714.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
不過交友軟體這個部分可能我不確定喔,這個交友軟體可能是比較涉及...是如果好,我們既然拋出了這個議題,我想說相關部會可以去研究一下怎麼去防範以後犯罪的行為好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5715.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5741.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
在技術上我們可以來協助來瞭解然後事實跟這個各部會分享不過還是特別強調就是說在這個內容的部分是不是有違法之餘這個可能還是要請相關部會的這個主管機關總觀以上就是說我講的就是關於他的罰金太小他的那個所謂的還要令其改善的這個部分我們在做努力好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5741.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5753.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好謝謝委員好謝謝那接下來請部長我們薛部長部長最主要是要給你請教我們地震的問題因為你這次政務有去過花蓮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5756.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5772.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我去了三次那大概告訴你就是說我要跟你報告就是說對沒有錯正樣在花蓮可是我們有一個鄉親住在台中他也受到災害因為他剛好在送貨的途中在中橫 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5773.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5796.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
他現在是腦死的狀態那可是就會有一些就是有點互踢皮球比如說他沒有又發生了就是他確實很像沒有保險的這件事情所以變成就是我們的資方可能就開始在撇清一些義務關係所以可能這個部分你們可能就要去了解好不好因為他確實很辛苦家庭很辛苦才會就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5798.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5813.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
離鄉背井到了台中去做司機的工作到了那裡被落石擊中現在是生命垂危那我希望你們就個案處理上在他的生活上面還有家屬的一個關心上面能夠到位好不好他在沙鹿同中和醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5813.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5817.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
在醫護人員跟消防人員還有我們在資源的工程人員這方面他們那麼辛苦的那段時間裡面有沒有一個可能就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5833.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5857.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5858.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5880.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
通常這一個部分的話大概不會用加急的方式去做處理啦因為他是一次性的不是說長久的加急通常就是長久的所以我們大概在這事件過後的時候他也許會去做一個表揚啦這一次辛苦的工作人員各方面的來做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5880.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5905.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我希望不是只有表揚好不好因為實際參與救災工作人員真的非常辛苦有時候也有獎金是是好第二個就是說你知道因為在太魯閣國家公園裡面工作很多的族人因為他的道路跟他的一些基礎事數都毀壞了以致他就沒有工作的機會那現在他們今天勞動部沒有練習勞動部就緊急了有一個計畫就是說大概有200個人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5906.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5930.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
提供一個人力在每個月150小時的一個工作機會那我希望部長這邊在跨部會議的時候可以說災後重建不可能兩個月就結束了所以應該是再長遠一點能不能到半年一年或者是甚至我們當然是希望是兩年就這樣一個規劃不然這些本來在太魯閣國家公園工作的族人呢他們兩個月以後就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5931.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5932.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我們謝謝盧憲一委員的質詢接下來請王韻明委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5968.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5974.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
好,我們是不是有請薛部長,還有我們數位發展部的曾文芳副市長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5979.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6005.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
部長好,部長上個禮拜本席要求要立刻針對創意私房就是進行封網的動作那也謝謝衛福部在第一時間部長你剛剛說你是冒著這個還要被訴願的風險就是啟動了這樣的一個即刻的行政作為那但是呢本席其實也要問部長的是說為什麼你會把細則定的比母法來得更嚴格變成綁手綁腳呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6009.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6037.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
當初在訂細則的時候我並沒有參與好那如果是這樣子的話這個細則是不是應該要修正而且應該要調整不應該是細則來反而讓自己的這個行政權受限吧對不對這個是未來我們要修正好本期要求這個部分就是一定要去修正另外一個就是商事部長也提到授予你們有這個權限即使下架的這個權限 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6038.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6054.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這個未來我想這個各委員都提出版本本期這邊也有提出修法我們就是要往這個方向來做讓這一些不當的性剝削的影像一旦在網路上被發現的時候一定是用最迅速最快速的時間來做這樣的一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6057.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6082.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那當然剛剛你也提到了這個法務部的檢察官其實是可以的我們是不是請法務部檢察司檢副司長你也上台為什麼這個創意私房這個案件事實上不是只有都靠衛福部法務部的檢察官一發現這個法律也授權給檢察官你就是可以去做這個動作封網的動作要求數位部那為什麼不做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6084.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6107.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
跟委員報告就是這邊所講的檢察官可以做的事情其實應該指的是向法院申請扣押那個網域的名稱意思就是說檢察官在偵查這個案件的時候那把這個就是網路上的這個部分當作是一個犯罪的證據那因為他這個證據必須要去保全所以回到刑事訴訟法規定是要向法官來申請做這個就是扣押網域名稱那事實上就是說今天大家在討論的這個論壇這個創意私房的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6109.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6110.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
所以你們速度也是很慢囉? |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6133.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6134.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
但你花了多少時間呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6154.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6161.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
從檢察官發現到你們徵證跟法院申請下來花了多少時間?本席要求的就是快速下架移除這個是各部會都必須到位的如果法務部這邊也沒有做到位你們應該要回去檢討好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6174.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6202.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我要求這個因為這次事件之後大家都很關心嘛那如果是你應作而未作的我覺得這個大家都有檢討的空間法務部也應該要強化因為這件事情不是只有衛福部一個部會的事情是跨部會這是為什麼本期今天找這麼多部會來大家一起來討論好 這個法務部先請回我要問的是這個數位部就是這個剛剛衛福部的報告裡面他提到移除的成功率86.7% |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6204.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6208.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那你們知不知道沒有移除成功的是什麼原因?剛剛部長有提到那有一部分是可能主要是因為網站是架設在國外的部分好那這部分我就要問你數位部既然我們成立了數位部、數發部要怎麼處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6228.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6234.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我現在呈現出來的就是我們現在按照現行的法律就是你們封網之後一般民眾到非法網站這條路是堵上了但是有些有心人士他透過VPN的方式請問你要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6258.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6277.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個是RPZ目前在技術上我們這在技術上目前能做到最快速的這個所謂的停止解析網站讓這個民眾沒辦法民眾沒辦法access到的最最快速的方法那陳如委員說的這個部分的話我們可能需要再去 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6278.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6297.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
你們今天要來報告還沒有想過這個問題嗎我另外的要告訴你的VPN在台灣有兩大家他們大打廣告但是現在你們的這個管理模式是什麼而且他們也廣招會員所以如果這一塊你們不處理的話沒有一些因應對策的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6297.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6325.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那我擔心的就是他透過這樣子的一個方式透過VPN的方式一樣是可以去成為會員一樣可以去收藏一樣可以去觀看瀏覽這一些不當的影片那這一塊請問這個書發布你們要怎麼處理因為目前VPN的VPN其實在各部會應該是都沒有納管那在國際上應該也沒有納管那所以這部分的話我 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6327.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6344.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我們必須要再回去研究一下在技術上看我希望速發布在這一件事情上面不要太被動我要一再強調有關於網路上這一些兒少剝削影片的即時的下架移除跟封網 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6344.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6346.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這部份本席要求這個數法部這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6374.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6399.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
一大漏洞所以你們應該回去好好的討論另外一個就是境外的社群平台也是一大漏洞就是這個部分就是直接你只要下載一些就是Google一些字其實就會跳出來那這一塊也一樣是在管理上面很大的挑戰但是我們有數法部這不會是衛福部要花時間他們沒那麼多時間跟精力但我要求這個數法部 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6401.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6430.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
你們應該要好好的去討論另外呢本席也發現就是像Meta他之前有允諾說在這個部分可以跟衛福部一起來合作但是同時在2023年12月8號Meta也宣布他要全面的加密啟用那在這樣的一個情況底下看起來是有所抵觸的當他全面加密啟用的時候請問有一些不當的資訊非法的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6431.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6457.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
到底應該要怎麼去管理那這個部分書發布你們知道嗎?這部分我們可能還要再進一步了解不過就像剛剛委員說的其實因為新科技的這個發展日新月異那我們會再進一步去了解好這個部分我要求書發布你們自己要一個專案小組好好的討論就是你們的角色主動性應該要出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6458.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6474.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
另外一個剛剛部長也在提到的就是主動監測的這件事情你說你們沒有人力那個薛部長說沒有人力嘛那我就要問了現在看起來各部會從數發部到衛福部到底是誰要來做這件事情就主動去 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6477.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6492.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
去瞭解、巡查到底有哪些不當資訊在流傳?部長跟我們報告這部分的話要去做這種巡查但是不涉及最後的一個處分的話其實我們是可以委外 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6500.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6510.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那既然部長你說可以委外本席就要求你們應該主動委外因為這個主動性很重要過去你們的模式是被動就是被害人出現了你們再來受力 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6511.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6537.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
但是主動性的去有效打擊犯罪那這個部分如果竟然可以委外那本席就要求衛福部委外一旦有資訊該是書發部要立刻去封網的就趕快封網該是法務部要進一步打擊犯罪就應該打擊犯罪不過這一個部分的話也跟委員報告我們可能需要在修法的時候把有法律授權給我們做這件事好因為我怕會抵觸到所謂的這一個言論自由的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6537.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6558.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
好 我們一定是限定一定的條件底下做這件事情 不會是要去前置這個言論自由 這個部分其實應該是可以來做的好 最後我覺得教育部也有責任 我們是不是請這個教育部我們的副署長 代副署長這個衛福部在第4頁的報告裡面提到 我們現在性剝削防制條例有納入課綱有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6562.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6575.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
呃 課綱的話大概分兩個部分第一個的話如果是屬於性評的部分呃 他是我就針對性剝削的這個部分呃 性剝削的話應該是沒有吧因為你所有的報告很多頁我沒有看到還沒有沒有那麼直接用這個詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6577.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6601.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
現在我發現教育部的做法都是宣導都是辦宣導並沒有在課綱裡面用一個比較正式的課程來告訴孩子這個很關鍵的他們現在在網路上可能會受害的這件事情所以我具體要求本協會提出修法在第4條裡面每學期應該要放入這個兒少性剝削防治的教育課程至少要兩個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6602.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6623.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我們太忽略孩子在網路上面他們的受害了那我們都用這一種很片段式的短暫的一個懸導坦白講我覺得並沒有達到效果如果我們看到這一個孩子受害的數據是越來越多的話我覺得更前端的去教育孩子怎麼避免在網路上面成為被害者這一點是我們教育部應該責無旁貸也應該要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6626.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6650.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這個副署長支持嗎?就是我們把這個性剝削防制教育的課程納為正式的課程如果是課綱的話可能因為已經審議過了108的嘛可能就是下一波的課綱好本期要求要求要納入因為衛福部的報告說你已經納入課綱了那他們誤解了是在性別平等教育跟數位素養的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6651.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6674.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那我覺得現在這個兒少性剝削的這個議題真的是非常嚴重我覺得這個前端的教育讓每一個孩子建立起這個自我保護的意識避免去被騙然後導致自己變成受害者我覺得這一塊的教育端真的也是要好好來強化而不是都是在後面事後補救而已教育部也應該負起這樣的責任可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6675.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6699.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們會在下一波課剛研議的時候就在研議是不是性剝削這個詞直接放這樣好那這個我希望我們可以透過事前的教育然後積極的查緝還有事後的重罰我們一起來全面保護我們的兒少不會受害謝謝謝謝王玉明委員下一位請廖偉祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6707.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6707.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
主席好,有請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6721.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6740.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
部長你好最近媒體有陸續公佈新內閣的這個內定名單請問部長有沒有接受到徵詢的電話了嗎還是一無所惜沒有是不是那部長請問你認為一個稱職的衛福部長應該具備哪一些能力那下一任的衛福部長應該要有什麼樣的經歷才稱得上事任 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6741.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6754.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這個可能不是由我來回答因為這個是這個行政院長要考慮好那我也知道你大概會這樣講喔所以你覺得下一任的部長有哪些問題要優先解決的例舉三項好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6756.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6784 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
目前大概有幾個重點第一個當然就是大家比較關心的食安的問題那第二個大概就是健保的問題那第三個大概就是這一個兒少保護的社安的問題對所以你提到的都是我想要講的就是至少是不是應該要懂食安、社安、醫藥安全、健保等等的那如果沒有辦法一次搞懂這幾大業務的話這樣子新人大概要多久才可以上手 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6785.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6787.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
所以我們希望看到的是專業肯做事的政務官不要互踢皮球的政務官 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6811.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6840.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
再來部長最近這個不管是什麼腸病毒、流感、新冠甚至是食安的問題我想各大小醫院的床位都很緊繃那其實醫院是有床位的據我們了解但主要也是護理人員不足所以造成護理人員流失的問題當然很重要一塊是薪資問題我想您也點頭我看得出來在勞動部在2022年的時候有去調查這個護理人員的薪資月薪資大約是47000多塊而且是加上獎金後的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6841.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6856.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那請教部長護理師這麼辛苦喔沒有平均年薪不到70萬我想這樣子請得到人嗎?是不是流失的很重要的原因呢?這個要是要看是這個最低的出任的薪資還是平均的薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6857.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6880.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
平均薪資的話應該接近70萬所以還是沒有到70萬嘛所以現在他們的這個工會都很希望是不是我們政府可以保障他們至少70萬的薪資起跳有沒有可能部長有政策性的宣示可以透過各種不然薪資補貼啦獎勵方案啊或者是等等的方式可以讓他們達到這樣的標準和水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6881.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6902.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
一般來講的話大概政府很難去保證說各種行業他的這個最低薪資是多少那您本人覺得值不值持他們的這個薪資待遇我覺得這個要從長計議因為光是在醫療產業裡面就各種不同的專業人員這個恐怕沒有那麼簡單好來那衛福部去年在健保總額有專款這個40億獎勵三班的這個護理人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6907.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6933.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那當然最近在3月4號的時候我們鄭文燦副院長也在臺灣社區醫院跟衛福部的這個政策溝通會議上和代表們達成共識就是說護理獎獎勵的夜班費的層級的差距的縮短縮減了你可以看這個這個到時候看這個圖表包含這個大夜班的醫學中心維持1000可是區域醫院從800元提升到950元好等等的這個數字在這個表格上面的我想問說那這筆費用何時會入帳 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6936.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6954.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這部分的話其實我們在等我們送到行政院去的一個健保基金的這個受制運用管理辦法的修正對我知道那我知道你會這樣講那會大概增加多少經費啊預計差不多一億多啦一億多好那這個健保總額支出還是用公務預算支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6955.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6977.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
就是由這個公務預算抑制到健保的那一筆錢去支出因為現在媒體就像你說的說這筆帳是卡在行政院裡面喔因為主計總署認為說應該有總額支出而不應該用公務預算來撥補所以我是想說這個部分我想部長用總額支出可能加碼並不太合理喔因為這樣又會稀釋到健保點值 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6977.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6987.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那重點是難道各醫院這個什麼時候要公告實施也還不確定那現在應該快了快了是不是那你可不可以在4月底之前給這個給一個答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6988.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7016.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
因為我現在等那個行政院那邊批下來上一次副院長已經有召集我們跟主席總署做了一個協商大概有一個成果所以現在等那個行政院那邊批下來所以4月底前應該是可以答覆有機會有機會所以還不敢保證對好那要請這個部長持續緊盯好不好好再來進入正題喔部長關於你遲遲不立即發布這個行政命令給訴法部要求封網 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7017.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7040.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
為此你上週解釋說封網有兩個方法一個是行政的處分那第二個是檢察官的調查但是兩個途徑都稍慢所以你希望說未來修法可以對於這個外網近外網站涉及兒少色情的授權的立即封網但是同一天蔡新祥部長就說依照現行的法律行政處分可以由主管機關也就是衛福部去做這樣下架封網的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7043.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7062.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
欸根本報告因為齁那個我們的施行細則裡面有規定我知道 行政處分的話要先有一個送達我知道你剛剛有講跟委員說有這個法律風險對不對對但我要告訴部長喔因為你有選擇你不是沒選擇因為你最後還是選擇對不對但你剛剛一直不斷的推脫說是法律風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7063.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7082.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
可是你當初本來就可以選擇做或不做你當初不想要承擔這個法律風險造成人民這個暴露在受害的風險當中那你現在當然就要負政治風險啦對不對這整個800多天對吧你不能全部都推給法律法律風險嗎800多天不能說我就封網了太拖太久 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7083.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7108.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好但是你剛剛也有說因為你剛剛有說好幾個細則所以你也晚處理了吧對吧所以因為你說當初有法律風險所以我要告訴你衛福部是能有所作為但是毫無作為拖到最後一刻媒體不報民代不逼法務部不說衛福部就不做那當然你們最後才從善如流趕快發文給訴發部請他趕快封網但是看得出來這就是一個不敢承擔在互踢皮球的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7110.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7134.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
讓我告訴你這剛說800多天其實我們真的不知道800多天到底在幹嘛加害者、付費會員、被害者也都不斷的在增加而且沒有封網的情況之下反正搞到現在金辦的這個警員也說也具名的受訪說其中有很多惡意殘酷的影像犯罪手法跟受害者的規模已經超過南韓的N號房事件所發生的性犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7136.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7149.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
而這個創意這個該網站至少有三四千位的受害者另外一個網站有1000多位的受害者包含很多大專院校臺大醫學院、北醫女等等很多廁所都被偷拍甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7150.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7168.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我要告訴部長6年前就有人就有受害者出現了他在Dcard上面有說受害者表示他6年前到外縣市去旅遊的時候被偷拍3年前報案結果受理單位說一句基本上抓不到還IP設在海外就沒有下文了 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7169.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7181.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
訴發部、衛福部、內政部都缺乏橫向溝通啊消極不處理才讓這個受害者被偷拍6年這個論壇經營也超過10年多了不只抓不到兇手現在論壇還持續營運喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7183.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7202.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以甚至這件事情現在看起來好像燒起來了看似結束了但是後續的憂鬱和恐懼都沒有散去這個受害者他說這是受害者他說的他說他哭了好久不敢跟任何人訴說他對自己很生氣為什麼沒有保護好自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7203.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7230.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我聽到這句話的時候我覺得很感慨為什麼我們的國家可以無能到讓受害的受害者受害女性被偷拍了卻只能夠責怪自己沒有保護好自己這完全不對啊對吧所以你看看南韓喔這個文在寅也在第一時間出面他說下這個下令要嚴辦等等的但是我們台灣呢感覺到現在我們還是一直在互踢皮球啊一直找藉口對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7231.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7253.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
而且我想要給您看的是我們的總統、副總統到現在也都沒有講話總統可以在拜登的狗狗死掉之後在他推特上面留言哀悼可是這件事情卻涉及自己國人有4000多位、5000多位的受害者甚至在過去兩年臉書的這個Ruiz社團被害者一直在疊加他都還沒有發聲欸這樣子對嗎?部長這一個齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7258.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7286.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
首先這是要有這個技術才能夠去做這件事情去防止的事情所以2020年開始算我是覺得這樣是可能的好部長先不再找理由我要給你看一個事情這是剛剛是6年多前就有受害者出現所以我們政府單位是消極沒有跨部會的整合但是你還記得我上次有問過我國的自殺統計數據參照圖表近年的這個年輕女性的自殺率莫名的攀升 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7288.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7304.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我想要請問部長你們有沒有做過年輕女性的自殺率提高和兒少性剝削之間相關性的研究這個是沒有沒有做兩個相關性的研究是沒有那我建議喔因為你目前沒有辦法排除有沒有可能是這個原因是建議是不是應該啟動專案來調查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7312.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7324.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我覺得應該要好好瞭解一下為什麼會發生這樣的事情因為從剛剛網路上的人這樣說你就知道這個受害者是好幾千萬而且這幾年莫名的攀升喔這個論壇的出現也是這幾年的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7325.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7342.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
好 所以部長這個我們蔡總統常常說沒有人是局外人可是看到我們現在受到性剝削的兒少的如何保護我看我們蔡總統跟我們現在的賴副總統都沒有發生看起來到現在還是局外人另外修法的有關修法的部分我想要請問部長你有沒有發現這次論壇的 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7346.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7374.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
整個經營裡面有人負責這個成為高級會員裡面有會員負責要發包芯片的需求有會員接單去偷拍有人接單了再委託其他人去偷拍有人管理會員有人管帳甚至這個主謀老馬是負責整個網站的架設還可以在2022年的時候把這個網站移到美國去我想請教部長這麼綿密的組織分工從事犯罪行為是不是組織犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7376.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7387.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
理論上來講也是一種形式的組織犯罪對那麼我想要請教法務部還有我們的衛福部為什麼針對這類型的犯罪沒有用組織犯罪條例來辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7391.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7417.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
報告委員就是那個組織犯罪防治條例他有相關對於那個組織犯罪他的一個定義那基本上他可能要有一個結構性、牟利性或者是長期性這看起來還不夠結構、不夠牟利、不夠長期嗎?那報告委員因為案件在地檢署假官偵辦當中那我們尊重假官按照他整個就是偵查調查的結果認定事實跟適用法律整體的評價那假設適用的法律有不妥適之處在那個就是日後起訴一審的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7418.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7445.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
都還有變更法條的可能性我們尊重甲官最後他認識用法的結果部長我是建議現行的41條裡面有說公務員或公職人員犯兒少性剝削條例刑度要加重二分之一那我是希望我也主張提出是不是41條之一的草案要新增這個以組織犯罪以組織刑事犯這個本條例的罪應該要加重期刑二分之一不知道部長認不認同這樣的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7446.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7457.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我想這個會牽涉到比較是法務部這邊他的判斷那也就是說這樣子去加重提醒的話那在整個法的橫平性到底是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7458.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7477.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我覺得這個事情要審慎看待請好好的研議評估好嗎因為這等於是大開後門這個組織犯罪已經這麼嚴重了你們還看不到還不去修然後公務人員這些東西犯了要加重二分之一那難道這些組織犯罪不用加重二分之一嗎這應該是很合理的事情不要再推給這個其他的理由好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7478.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7492.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
最後現行法的30條也規定對於性剝削的兒少被害人他要進行輔導甚至必要的協助應該至少進行一年以上可是我感覺這個地板是不是太低 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7497.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7518.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我希望是不是可以把地板提高到三年因為一年的事情這個東西很多一年以後你都還不知道後續會發生什麼事情可能導致更多的社會情況的發生可以思考一下但是這樣子提高到三年以上的話是否有他的實力這個也是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7518.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7545.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我覺得目前有一些案子是已經有了我們有一些數據大概可以去做一些分析請部長好好的審慎的看待不要再用消極被動的態度去處理這個事情最後我還要再提一個現在AI的發展已經發展得很快所以我們希望這個不法的壞人走在前頭我們政府應該要趕快有所規範避免這個AI變成性犯罪在內的不法工具我想要講的事情就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7547.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7570.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我們應該要提早因應我們可以看不管是歐盟或者是美國下一頁不管是歐盟或美國其實他們都已經有相關的在研議要怎麼處理這些事情甚至他可以在這個AI軟體的技術上面就直接設定說他不可以從事哪些問題他不可以去問哪些問題不可以產生哪些東西所以我們不曉得我們的速發部有沒有相對的因應請問速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7581.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7600.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這個AI的這個部分的話我們也有配合這個因為國科會其實上個禮拜也有表示就是他們有考慮這個利用AI的這個技術然後組成這個跨部會的這跨領域的這個專家學者來研究是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7602.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7628.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
來這個用AI detect這個偵測這個部分所以你們現在才要開始做啊你們一年這麼多預算到底在幹嘛因為這個東西在國外老早就做了你在歐洲你在歐盟或在美國甚至一些敏感的詞彙你是不能問的那現在到現在我們才要做這件事情是不是太慢了我請你們好好回去趕快加緊腳步去做這件事情這個國際上其他國家都已經走在很前面了我們身為一個所謂的IT大國 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7629.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7629.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
好,我們有請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7658.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7658.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
好,請薛部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7666.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7693.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我想請問一下最近我們包括健保改革醫護離職潮食品安全與社會安全網的這個問題層出不窮當然有人認為說我們衛福部因為520要到了我們留下一大堆的這些爛攤子那我在這邊想請問一下部長您認為這些問題是您有沒有責任要留下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7696.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7706.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
呃,留下來不是用責任去講啦,就是說,不過目前...你準不能拍拍屁股就走吧?阿人家如果不要我做了,我又能怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7709.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7735.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那我這樣請問部長就是說你認為我們現在剛剛講的這些重大問題應該要立即處理呢還是要等到新任的部長再來處理當然現在都在處理當中其實有幾件其實也差不多處理到一個段落本席一直認為就是現在新就任政府交接的空窗期長達半年讓看守內閣長期不能有效的作為這是一個非常嚴重的一個憲政運作的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7738.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7755.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
請部長我們應該要勇於負責啦當然啦當然啦積極處理相關的問題不能讓重大政策這個施政有長達半年的空窗不過之前有委員說看守期間不應該做重大的政策對啊那所以就是空轉喔對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7756.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7757.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我們目前並沒有空轉,我們目前都是照常在運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7770.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7786.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那你還是不能決策重大事情啊?不是嗎?該決策的都有決策那我問一下就是我之前提到的那個我們蘇丹紅的一個月給我報告那現在我們部裡面處理的怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7787.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7805.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
蘇丹紅的案子就是辣椒粉的部分的話大概已經做出來告一個段落但現在是最近有一個是胡椒粉那個他的進口是在我們全面的百分之百的這個抽批的之前進來的所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7806.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7825.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
因為我們3月26日到4月9日又在邊境分別攔截銷毀一萬公斤及五千公斤的蘇丹紅,對吧?它還是有這種心存僥倖之徒所以就是我們沒有百分之百驗嗎?沒有,就是百分之百驗才把它擋下來,而且擋下來要全部都把它銷毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7825.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7827.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那為什麼還會到廠商那邊?你如果100%擋為什麼還會在廠商那邊出現? |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7852.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7854.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我現在請問一下這一次我們這個從中國大陸進口的這些廠商有22家是違法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7872.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7887.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那我們有沒有透過管道向中國政府來尋求這個協助我們有通知啦這個協助我想這個靠自己是比較重要的啦因為他們也不會同意說我們去到中國那邊去做查查 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7888.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7907.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這樣子好不好,那我們部長這樣子,這件事情當然我們不希望再發生我希望我們當然就一定要對所有的進口辣椒粉百分之百查驗對百分之百查驗,針對業者的主動檢驗應提出應盡數研議將這個檢驗公司納入通報機制可以嗎?這可以那我再問部長就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7913.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7935.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
針對藝人黃子嬌這件案子持有未成年私密影像的事件衛福部至4月11日才首度引用行政執法進行強制封網的處分那查封創意私房的網站那我想請問一下部長何時才掌握檢察官起訴的創意私房網的會員及加害人的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7939.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7943.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
檢察官那邊的話我們還沒有因為他這個偵查不公開我們還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7945.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7968.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
事實上我們檢察官早於111年1月13日就確定起訴的創意私房涉嫌偷拍那到現在我們4月10日才發文封網剛剛有提到818天的時間我們為依照兒少性剝削防治法條例第8條規定移除犯罪資料那我們衛福部這邊您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7970.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7990.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這個檢察官在當時110年查獲的時候我記得那時候就曾經封網過只不過他是那為什麼4月10號才發文他又改變網域等於說又復活所以封網封網跟有一種叫之前下架跟下架是不一樣嗎不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7991.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7992.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那我們總共下架多少這個案子? |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8021.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8038.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
如果是下架就個別的影片下架的部分的話我們接受這個通報然後就有所謂的網址的我們大概有665件是下架但是封網的是只有9件 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8039.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8055.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我認為我們衛福部信引向處理中心就是專責處理單位這樣沒錯吧所以不應該讓外界感到感覺不到它的存在除了因應應該加強橫向的聯繫相關機關之外即使要求國內的業者下架相關資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8058.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8071.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
並應提升功能,負責聯繫國外平台網站下架非法的影像內容,可以嗎?這個很難啦,這要...要國外要他...不,那我們要這個單位幹嘛?如果你都沒辦法做 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8072.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8098.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
沒有,我們就直接看看能不能法律搜尋我們,我們就去搜尋。所以你是贊成修法?對,就把它封掉了啦。境外的,對不對,讓國人看不到這個沒有問題啊。技術上做得到。那我們在去年修法,我們政府認為說不需要制定新的這個專法嘛。對不對,而採取用修法導致防制數位性暴力這個犯罪歸過於分散。太過於分散。 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8099.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8122.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
也不能說這樣子因為它每一個法有它的主要的一些目標跟做法本席認為我們現在在行政院與衛福部應該主動積極研議相關的法律條文的修法並重新思考制定專法的必要性不要外界踢一下才動一下這樣子對我們的行政防制作業永遠都會落在後面發生了才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8123.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8150.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
其實是不是立專法這個我個人是覺得並不是要點啦你剛剛不是說沒有法沒有法源有一個條文讓我們讓我們可以去主動去搜尋就好了對啊那就是一樣那不是修法是什麼就在兒少性剝削條例那不是修法是什麼不是剛剛委員講是專法啦專法就是要立一部法好啊那你可以修法嗎可以嗎這可以啊這我們可以來研議啊好 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8151.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8171.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那我請問一下我們速發部我們2021年時任電政大隊隊長現為刑事局研發科代理科長的莊明雄當時嘗試使用封禁賭博和炸雞網這樣的做法叫育民扣押跟現在你們的封網有沒有什麼不一樣的其實就技術跟委員報告就技術層面來講或實質面來講其實是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8179.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8198.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所以這一次在2021年我們這個創意私房的域名扣押只維持一個月他們把原來的網域的Net改成.com就重新復活了專業的速發部有把握可以封多久如果網站又復活後續怎麼處理我們速發部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8199.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8214.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
跟委員報告這個封網時間應該是依據當初檢察官的這個這個判決的部分來處理喔那所以要封多久這個其實是可以根據不管是法官的這個判決或者是行政部門的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8215.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8235.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
行政處分來採定來來說明對那針對這個就是這個因為剛我有稍微報告到就是說因為國外的這個這個域名其實他重新註冊然後再重新開架架設網站的這個成本其實很低喔那所以在這部分的話其實速發部的話就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8235.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8258.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
一直跟這個ティラミック這邊在研究我覺得我們不但要封存這個就是把這個這個網域應該要把它封網之外那另外發生的比如說像這次提到的這個創意私房的四個錢包交易金額大概有3000萬左右那臺灣的受害者不少我們訴發部有沒有協調金管會打算繼續追下去不是查完就算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8264.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8292.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這樣子我的犯罪人怎麼會怕呢?這個虛擬貨幣跟金流的部分這個部分可能我覺得你們我剛剛講的橫向交流很重要啦好不好橫向的一些溝通很重要我希望我們書發部跟金管會這邊能夠做一個協調可以嗎?好謝謝委員指導那這部分我們會跟相關部會來協力謝謝好那我再給我一點時間再問一下我們法務部跟警政署請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8297.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8300.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
依託彌子電子煙是毒品還是藥品? |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8304.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8330.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這個部分應該是衛福部主管的所以還沒有還沒有定就對了因為電子菸通通都是叫做類菸品那個都不是不是藥所以我跟你講現在70了之後會變成喪屍會成癮性情大變思考變混亂大陸去年就已經把這個東西列為毒品我們台灣現在是抓到沒事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8332.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8359.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
可能委員要把那個名稱給我來確認一下我希望啦這個東西啊因為這個東西就像我們的K他命一樣K他命一直列為三級毒品對於整個青少年的這個侵害是非常大的我知道的就已經到國中就已經非常氾濫了我想法務部這邊有沒有什麼為什麼到現在還是列入為三級毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8359.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8382.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
跟這個委員報告我就說因為毒品危害防治條例就是分級管制的那就是每一級要把它列進去第一級第二級或是第三級第四級的時候要考慮它的那個成癮性還有濫用性跟對社會危害性所以您大家的意思就是說70K它面對社會沒有影響的不是 報告委員那因為要把那個怎麼樣去列分級這個部分要在毒品審議委員會裡面討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8384.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8400.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那獨品審議委員會裡面有法務部還有就是衛福部跟相關的專家我覺得法務部有必要再檢討這個像我們KTM的分級的一個這個調整要不然的話我發現現在我們社會上 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8402.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8420.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
國中就已經非常的氾濫那為什麼警察不抓因為是因為他抓了只能罰款警察單位也沒有分數沒有績效所以造成這個執法都等於是變鬆散了有一種變相這個不處理然後鼓勵人家犯罪的那種嫌疑啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8421.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8448.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
報告委員就是關於那個K他命要不要改列成第二級毒品事實上在過去的獨審會都有幾次的你們是怕看守所關不下是嗎不是都有幾次的討論我們是尊重整個獨審會專業意見的決定最後大家就到目前為止還是把它維持在第三級毒品那但是施用第三級毒品跟持有第三級我發現因為吸食K他命的人真的對身體影響非常大尤其你青少年的膀胱膀胱的問題我希望我們部裡面能夠來針對這個部分來檢討好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8450.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8458.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
是,我們再待會去研議。好,謝謝。謝謝邱政軍委員的質詢。接下來我們請蘇清泉委員進行質詢。謝謝主席。我們請部長。好,請邱部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8474.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8486.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
部長,張武媒體訪問我,對於你的表現,我再三的給你肯定,你不曉得有沒有看到這一...這部分沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8489.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8508.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我看我們衛生部真的是多災多難事實上部長你也處理了不錯啦 說坦白的謝謝這種事情 三人來做都一樣 食安的問題啦 又再災又三的發生那真的是 部長也是有所有為 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8509.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8529.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好,那你如果繼續留任今天這個兒少的問題我要跟大家報告這個兒少法是我們衛部在復建嘛數位發展部、法務部都在配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8530.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8545.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那我看到這個問題,現在,IG也還是可以上,影像也可以繼續下載,還是可以上去看,欸,我不知道這數位發展部,你們是在幹什麼呢?啊,到現在是每天都在點地下麵線,或是蚵仔麵線,在拍的數位發展部來解說一下就好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8553.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8553.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
跟委員報告說明一下這個有關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8584.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8607.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
剛剛說的這個執行這個RPZ所謂的封網的這個部分的話我們在技術上是可以全力配合不過就是說這個內容的部分到底是不是有違反這個違法之餘那這部分的處分我們還是要尊重這個主管機關的這個判斷你是尊重哪一個主管機關啊如果就兒少部分的話其實是衛福部那他們就補充說可以把它封網給它撤掉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8612.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8616.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
不行嗎?還是讓他不能進來嗎?所以我們現在做的RPZ的這個技術的呈現方式其實就是讓國內的民眾沒辦法接取到對就是限制接取 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8627.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8641.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
部長,我看他這個齁,就是待會網路搞的孩子,孩子都國小、國中都頹頹果果,那又不知道事齁,就搞新朋友,新朋友就跟他說,你如果要upgrade,你再搞一個什麼東西,就讓你再看到比較私密的東西。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8643.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8664.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
放假見不到面然後叫你讓你有渴望有期待然後就叫你照照自己的相片給他上傳越照就越誇張然後呢就給你一個一個都給你存下來等到你上到高中上到大學他反過來你有收入的時候用那個影像要給你拖錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8666.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8666.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這樣子啦,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8688.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8700.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
兩個方面第一個是預防的部分其實真的也是要從教育來著手對我們的小孩子因為越來越多小孩子在使用這些3C那這個是趨勢是不可避免的 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8701.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8717.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那小孩子在使用這一些網路的時候那要讓他知道他的風險這個是要經由教育那第二個要做的就是如何實際上去做保護那實際上去做保護就是有案件出來了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8718.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8735.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那案件出來之後的話我們怎麼樣迅速的可以讓他下架這個是一個點那讓他不會盡量縮小他在網路上流傳的這種可能性但是這種流傳不一定涉及到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8738.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8759.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
委員提到勒索啦等等這些不一定有時候他只是就是把他傳出去二座鋸還是等等這些都有可能而且他就是單一的一個影片一個一個影像比較可惡的是剛剛委員在提到了就是像創意私房這一這一種的他是有網站他收錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8761.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8787.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那這些會員加入的時候他就會把錢丟進去當你有這種商業行為的時候等於就是說鼓勵這個業者盡量去收集越多的那就會有更多的人受到傷害那這個部分要處理就是要去做那最重要的點比方說我們現在碰到的他可能就換了一個網域然後又復活了 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8787.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8796.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
今天我們把它封掉了兩天之後它可能又復活了這個時候我們就要能夠翻檢的行 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8797.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8825.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
官兵抓牆到啦我們要有那個工具說好沒關係你做你娃娃我一樣給你堆嘛他現在要給你教你說什麼叫你教你一日入會費三千啦五千啦現在就給你調來調就說你還要看比較高檔的對又給兩千給三千但是不管怎樣我們就是我們就要有法律授權讓人家說反正你怎樣的時候我不是真的要一日給你看教程一日看我是用 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8826.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8837.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
數位的技術我就可以抓得到可疑的然後我們就可以再縮小範圍然後去把它找出來啦這技術我相信是有的這個該修法就修法嘛那你數法部你是有那個聯絡嗎?這樣問啦,如果沒有這孩子幫我試這樣,你覺得看得下去嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8847.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8875.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
對於新科跟委員報告那對於新科技的這個部分的話那就我剛剛有提到就是說因為其實現在在上個禮拜其實國科會有提到就是說他們將會組這個跨部會組成跨領域專家的這個團隊來去來去研究那用這個AI來預測這種所謂的性影像在網路傳播的這個可行性那這部分我們會密切關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8876.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8898.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
就是說一直掃?用screen一直掃?一直掃?有問題就一直掃?一直掃一直把它找出來然後再進一步再去做分析那如果是的話那就直接就把它封網封掉啦那第二個也許除了封網之外還有一件事情可以做就是追他的金流追他的金流那這一點我在這邊特別要講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8899.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8923.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
其實這個技術是有的,也就是說有人如果對這種網站去做donate,要追你是誰donate給他,技術上面並不困難。這我想我講一個大家會很清楚,美國的話他們在911之後的話,在抓那個反恐的就是就是用這種技術在做啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8925.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8953.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
所以是可以做到所以有那種癖好的我們的國人的話注意一下要抓是可以抓得到那這樣很好啊我們能不能仿照加拿大加拿大在那檢證單位裡面他們有設兒童及少年性剝削犯罪中心這個單位那我們台灣有沒有我看我們的檢調在這裡面也沒有扮演什麼角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8956.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8979.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這個部分的話當然可以來考慮啦,看看是不是有必要從一方面來建立出來我們檢察官這邊是,副市長您這要怎麼主動、積極嗎?我看你剛剛在回答那個3、4級毒品也是這樣講我們要把那個3、4級的毒品上升到1、2級毒品,就是碰到阻力嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8980.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8996.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這個部分真的是照法律規定需要經過獨評審議委員會的審議不是法務部可以自己決定說調整那個分級分項對啦那個我知道啦那個因為知識體大嘛那對於這個這個社我剛剛講在比照加拿大這個社這個你們有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8997.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9013.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
就是剛才委員講的應該是設在警政單位對警政單位的話這個部分警察聽你們的啊你們指揮他們的啊我們只是個案上指揮警察辦案但是我們的那個組織互相不隸屬所以這個部分警政單位要不要設這樣子一個組織可能要尊重內政部警政署的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9014.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9041.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那剛剛部長講的如果有會donate的或是什麼的你去抓得到那你們會不要給人家抓起來刻意刑責這個很重要喔是那跟我們報告就不殺這些人齁對只要只要是涉及犯罪嫌疑那按照那個刑事訴訟法228條的規定加關在製造犯罪嫌疑的情況之下我們一定是主動積極偵辦那如果說有這個犯罪所得我們現在非常強調說就是要積極的查扣這個犯罪所得讓這個行為人他不能坐享這個犯罪所得的這個成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9043.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9044.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
謝謝蘇星泉委員,我們現在休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9074.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9075.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9469.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9473.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
好 我們繼續開會接下來我們請林淑芬委員進行質詢主席各位大家午安是不是還是請我們薛部長好 請薛部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9499.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9522.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們今天要來這裡先要再一次的強調這個黃子佼去購買影片的來源這個創意私房他本身就是一個性犯罪這個網站他網站的內容不是說他持有未成年這個性犯罪影像而已他包括成年的女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9522.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9550.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
他的網站的內容都是上廁所、更衣室、偷拍或者是很多感情生變前的前女友的不雅照、心愛片而且上標榜散傳者他是獨立開發拍攝而且還他們號稱我們網頁的特色是還會附上當事人女子的臉書和IG帳戶去佐證 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9552.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9552.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
主席。 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9555.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9582.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個對無數的即便是成年的女性成年的受害者都是難以抹滅的恐懼和身心的殘害所以讓這些人每日中日惶惶不安啊生怕被指認甚至不敢出面控訴所以有的人也因為被公佈了IG案、臉書案、學校所以持續被跟蹤騷擾甚至更進一步的衍生了這個性侵害的犯罪的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9584.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9601.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
所以在黃子嬌事件大家報導都只看到她吃了七部未成年這個兒童的性犯罪影像我們還要再看到這一點整個創意司法整個論壇都是以不是性產業是性犯罪產業網站啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9602.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9607.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
所以你今天還在講說這個到底法規法規上就從法規上去給它停亡這樣子會不會引起爭議啊我們講他是犯罪行為他很標準那我們今天在這裡還有人以為說看一下A片沒什麼可是在這裡我再講一次這一個論壇這一個網站它就不是A片都是非法的非自願性的私密影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9630.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9636.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
所以把自己病態的需求這些會員不管去拍攝或是去看的都是把自己病態的需求建立在一種犯罪基礎上讓持有的人他很爽可是侵犯他人的隱私和痛苦而且還經營這一類喪心病狂的產業讓更多的女性和兒少的受害人在那裡受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9660.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9673.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以他是加害者助長性犯罪產業的共犯而且這個論壇還有一個特色是什麼特色你知道嗎可以點菜可以出任務你知道嗎他們要點菜點餐出任務你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9683.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9711.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
他把被愛人的臉書IG公開他還給點菜點菜說你想看哪一類型的性犯罪影像我們會有人去出任務所以你這個會員裡面有人點菜出任務所以他就你是會員大家付錢付錢請人去做性犯罪影像然後到時候還起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9713.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9720.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
點菜的人是主使?還是只是持有影片?還是只是觀看者?這個點菜的會員他有可能變成是一個教授範 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9730.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9758.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
是教唆指使啊沒錯啊所以我們今天在這裡非常嚴肅的來講說這一類的犯罪你給他還起訴或寄現有的法規寄現有的法律你還擔心說這會不會被訴怨這個會不會行政處分上給他聽完會不會強制聽完會不會引起什麼爭議我告訴你遠遠的不會他們是犯罪集團做犯罪的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9759.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9787.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
然後在這裡呢你對一個有這麼大的社會的聲量還有財富資源的人來講給他還起訴你讓人家怎麼可以接受啊他會員他是一個性犯罪產業的有可能提供金援的共犯如果他還點菜有人幫他出任務他就叫說指使者叫說指使性犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9788.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9806.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
所以地檢署在上個禮拜回應了說我們還起訴還講到一點叫做兼顧保障受害少女不用再出庭承受二度傷害才讓黃子椒還起訴而不是縱放被告我們聽不下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9807.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9833.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我們聽不下去所以臺北地檢署這樣的做法是不是單一個案我今天等一下再來討論我現在就叫你我們現在不要就看你們自己衛福部今天提供的數字被害人的這個被害的趨勢他的特點是什麼包含他們的年紀和性剝削的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9835.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9863.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
他們的特點是什麼?他們的趨勢,被害的趨勢是怎麼樣?被害的趨勢喔?大概是,主要是影像的這個部分啦不是啦,就年齡啊,性剝削的樣態年齡的話可能有一點是趨向在10出頭歲這樣子到國小啦已經是12到18歲為大中啦已經到國小了 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9865.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9891.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這個是受害者然後性勒索成心形態不分性別我們當然以為說我剛剛講喔你剛剛講你想想看喔剛才那個點菜出任務出任務的方式有的時候去釣魚釣魚式的出任務一種是在網路上網戀然後呢你要拍照片給我拍影像給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9892.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9904.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
然後他把它拍的然後上傳到網站上去也有釣魚式的但是呢還有一種是這個是性犯罪產業還有一種是詐騙產業詐騙集團呢這裡有一個叫趙亦凡的他可能是一個教育領域的或是心理諮商領域的他講說啊手遊裡的或遊戲裡的性剝削很嚴重你知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9922.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9944.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
遊戲傳說對決裡面世界聊天室的訊息截圖可以看到遊戲正在進行旁邊的聊天室嘛聊天室有各種各式各樣的聊天室他說他每一款遊戲都有一樣的狀況他可以連線可以傳遞訊息可以聊天然後這裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9945.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9973.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
性剝削分成五種狀況他說第一種是對價物品的交換利誘小孩子小孩子很容易受騙另外一種聊天室還有一個叫做情侶聊天室情侶系統剛好滿足小孩子在情感上的需求在青春期的好奇所以很多人會很多男生受到女生傳的私密照然後男生可以把自己的私密照再傳出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9975.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9990.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這些照到底是大人誘騙釣魚誘騙還是真實的你的對象是什麼都不知道還有一種聊天室是每天在那裡有性需求的邀請你想不想想愛愛聊色色的邀請然後在遊戲裡面還有這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9992.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10015.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
有排位有組隊的手遊有這種文化就是陪打陪玩系統讓能力低的要提升你的能力階級提升你的階級所以要強的去帶弱的在遊戲裡面啦所以陪玩陪了的越多然後加害者用變聲器去接近孩子建立信任然後就開始進一步的邀約實體陪玩等等還有一種是公會組織系統我今天要講這個是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10021.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10047.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
其實在遊戲裡面有沒有具體認識這一些人我們都不知道裡面的誘拐很多遊戲有沒有人在管理保定遊戲聊天室裡面的網工網婆制度有沒有人在管理遊戲裡面經常說你要不要想愛愛想色色進來聊天的邀請有沒有人在管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10057.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10067.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那誰要管?我們的孩子每天都在陷阱裡面你今天說你沒有能力管雙手一擔說你沒有能力管那我們的小孩誰要保護他們?然後到時候就勒索來了在這個裡面呢照片集團也在裡面性犯罪產業也在裡面每個人都把小孩當成 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10082.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10092.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
目標每個人都在裡面要來這個釣魚然後每個人到時候就進行勒索然後每個人都要剝削這些孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10094.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10116.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
你主理們所說 你說你沒有辦法管 那我們小孩子怎麼辦啊我們是沒有能力、工具、方法去管那你告訴我合理的工具和能力是應該怎麼管委員應該知道今天出席的部會裡面有人我今天知道出席的部會 其他部會的層級都很低啊低到這麼低我都不曉得要問誰了 那我問你說具體要怎麼管 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10117.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10129.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那我現在再告訴你說你們明明知道以去年為例這些性剝削、利用兒童製造這個拍攝已經達到2903件而去年的然後前年的還1971件到一年大幅成長1000件 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10141.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10155.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
增加了三四十%的受害!受害!受害啊!一年增加一千件,增加三成欸!以上欸! |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10157.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10159.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
你知道違反兒童兒少性剝削防治條例的量刑低起訴率也低 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10183.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10192.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
例年來違反兒少性剝削防制條例的案件通常以不起訴及緩起訴居多差不多有65.2%的比例欸是不是65%欸來來法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10205.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10223.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
你說法務部比較清楚,你不能不知道欸!你們是兒少這個防制性剝削的主管機關欸!雖然是法務部的責任,但你們不能不知道啊!保定!知道可以知道啊!那我再問你說到底是比例有多高?副市長你也說一下!還起訴或者不起訴的居多? |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10229.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10238.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
報告委員因為那個兒少性剝削防治條例的那個犯罪類型太陽很多那相關的統計數據我們可以回去再統計你今天來這裡報告來問你說你知道黃子佼是還起訴大家對還起訴都很有意見然後你就來這裡備選你什麼資料都沒有準備你也敢來嗎是因為你的成績太低嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10249.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10255.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
包括委員我們有準備跟就是這個案件相關的資料那你念一下給我聽跟這個相關我剛剛問的問題相關的資料你你沒有準備到我問的問題那你準備了什麼念給我聽一下我們主要準備的就是針對這個今天則這個專題的報告要來說明就是法制面上的部分到底有一些怎麼樣去防治這個數位麥克共法制面法制面連數據都沒有準備你們這樣在這裡準備是虛擬偽疑聊杯葛啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10277.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10304.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
行事局從2014年跟美國一個NGO叫美國國家失蹤及受剝削兒童中心建立窗口透過美方資料互換通報機制突破因為網路匿名和加密科技導致長久以來警方偵辦性剝削案件的困難的因素就讓它突破了可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10305.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10320.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這個報導者報導跨國訪談這一個美國的這個NGO、NC、MEC的總監Jennifer那個NewmanJennifer Newman的時候他從全球兒童性剝削的通報系統叫Cyber Tip Line的統計中發現從2019年到2022年美方偵測兒少性剝削影像來自台灣的IP的通報數量成長2.3倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10334.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10337.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
數量多少你知道嗎?副組長。呃,謝謝委員。我想我們刑事局的同仁在這邊我請他們回答吧。好,你都不知道,來這裡都沒好位。 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10347.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10369.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
從數量從IP來自台灣的數量從3萬變成7萬凸顯台灣性剝削影像在台灣氾濫的程度而這些資訊我們都知道你們會說偵查人力不足缺乏經費偵查辦案的專業能力不足但我們今天看這個是說我們偵查的能力還需要透過外國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10371.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10392.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
來幫助我們刑事局還需要外國的NGO透過台灣的NGO和中央主管機關通報這件事情就知道我們是多麼的無能我今天在這裡最後因為主席站起來這麼久我在講最後為什麼土法不足以自刑我們今天加重刑責了還是有很大的問題啊因為像今天2012年成立這個創意私房2021年給它停網封網了 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10397.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10401.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
可是呢他把.net改成.com以後他還是繼續的在繼續經營我要講說今天創意私房這個個案就像是一個房間裡面的大象 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10412.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10435.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
大家都看到了但是就算被看到了我們要怎麼處理仍然沒有共識然後他一個月上次的經驗是一個月以後回歸一個月以後他如果再滿血回歸挑戰公權力我覺得我們是媽咪轉倒灰啦政府真的看衰這也不是沒有道理我要舉一個具體的例子就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10438.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10441.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我一直講突發不足以自行今天是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10446.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10473.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我這裡有一個個案你們黃子椒還起訴以外這是檢查機關他們動輒就是還起訴還起訴哪一個講的說是為了被害人好不用出庭那我今天再講一個彰化地方法院刑事判決他是一個大學生然後去網路上網戀然後叫一個未成年的女性呢要拍 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10474.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10492.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個照片很閒失啦他很閒失啦然後呢這個判決在這裡來我們右拐右騙為成年兒童拍攝或是被拍或是自行拍攝這些影像他是用哪一條那個性剝削防治條例第幾條 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10498.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10524.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
來幾條?第幾條?你不知道喔?36條刑度從幾年開始為什麼我說加重刑度?如果檢警審辦案的態度沒有改變的話,不好你看這個個案36條三年以上他怎麼判你知道?他判多久你知道嗎?判了一年十個月,緩刑五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10526.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10545.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
刑度是三年以上的個案怎麼有可能判一年十個月呢?為什麼?市長你想得出來嗎?部長你想得出來嗎?各位委員你們想得出來本刑是三年以上他怎麼可以他怎麼可以變得判成一年十個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10546.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10570.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我是沒有看到判決書他說這個三年以上十年以下有期徒刑得病科這個他說刑度不可謂不重啊然同為室內案件犯罪其原因動機不一啊犯罪情節亦未必相同其行為所造成的社會危害的程度亦有別上一期情狀啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10572.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10601.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
量以適度之刑責應足以呈警並且可達到防衛社會的目的自非不可考量及主觀二線案客觀犯刑有無這個顯可憐憫之處所以我們用刑法第59條的規定著量減輕其刑其使個案裁判的量刑能斟酌至當符合比例原則我們都知道誘拐未成年拍攝這一些要 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10601.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10602.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
10月14日的新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10626.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10641.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
10月14日一個警察也是誘騙三個未成年他在別的網站上影像外洩然後警察知道了來找他警察叫他再拍一次然後上傳到論壇這個警察照這裡說這39條還是36條36條嗎?36條結果這警察判多久你知道嗎?我的資料怎麼不見?判多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10655.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10677.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
啊?判多久?一年十個月為什麼判一年十個月?36條就三年以上他連起訴用36條的條文都沒有為什麼?為什麼?檢察官發生什麼事了?法官發生什麼事了?警察?犯案是發生什麼事了?而這種狀況你們都沒有認為說很奇怪嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10688.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10699.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
在這裡你來跟我們補充你不可以跟我們說我們沒辦法不可以說這不是我管的不可以這樣說你是主管機關你也要去會同相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10700.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10710.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
全精神看要如何處理,這案件要如何辦明明已經有分入36條的分入在那裏,我就辦到一年十個月,每條都一年十個月每條都還起訴,大多數都還起訴,每條都還會減刑這樣對不對,難怪這些人敢這樣做嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10724.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10747.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我們今天在這裡加重有用嗎?加重以後他減刑。加重有用嗎?加重以後他還起訴。所以土法不足以自刑啊。與眾心長。抱歉我佔多了時間。謝謝。好,謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢。等一下洪聖漢委員發言結束後處理臨時提案。我們現在請王正旭委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10759.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10787.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
謝謝主席還是有請薛部長好請薛部長是委員好薛部長好今天這個題目真的是很沉重我們剛剛聽到那麼多的委員提供給你們意見上的參考相信都是非常非常重要大家對於如果保護兒童能夠順利的成長真的都是用心良苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10787.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10800.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
而同時我們國家未來的主人我相信大家都很期待針對我們的兒少能夠很好的保護環境讓他們順利成長真的是有帶大家一起來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10802.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10828.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我們早上也看到您提供的資料裡面從112年到113年當中相關的案件有767件來審理那其中相關去移除到有違規的部分有665件成功率到達86.7%這成功率的確很高不過我們比較想要了解的就是那這個速度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10829.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10850.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
因為這個成功率跟速度之間希望他也會得到好的成功的話是依法那兒少的移儲是24小時之內他如果要成人的話是72小時所以基本上只要是移儲都會在24小時跟48小時裡面就能夠處理好大人的可以到72小孩子的就24 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10852.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10874.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
OK 了解因為從這個威嚇理論的原則上來看懲罰的嚴厲性、確定性跟迅速性越高就越能夠嚇阻這個犯罪的效率不過我剛剛聽到這個林委員所提供的資訊好像在執行過程當中這個完成率、時效性跟後面能夠得到嚇阻的作用似乎又有一些落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10875.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10894.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那有一些是在司法機關的他的處理的考慮啦包括緩起訴啦或者說要減刑這個這事實上是司法機關他們的判斷是是那這部分因為外部還是主管機關嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10894.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10895.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
法官獨立審判他也不會開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10911.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10931.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
了解了解所以等於是執行上的確真的是無法能夠讓回應這個民間的期待啦回應社會的期待這個部分我們很希望說能夠針對於未來在修法的過程裡面如何能夠更有效的去改變現在的困境跟窘境 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10932.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10943.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那我們這邊也看到說如果未來在執行上有更多需要做調整跟改變的地方很多的學術研究其實是重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10944.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10964.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那我們等級上去查閱一下有關於這個保護師最近這幾年有沒有相關的這個委託研究結果是0這部分不知道將來如何有效的去編列相關預算或是徵求相關的研究案來了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10965.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10989.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
因為很多學術的研究後面的成果事實上可以提供我們的行政單位來給相關的目前碰到的問題做比較深入的了解那同時也可以讓這樣的困境可以得到解除因為依照西班牙他們對兒少性害的研究裡面發現說他們的成長率5年成長激增了15% |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10990.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11017.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
他們透過相關的學術研究或者是一些研究過程發現說打擊任何形式的兒少性侵害最佳的方法是預防這個是很容易理解的一個研究成果可是畢竟很多的細節還是需要多了解所以如果能夠透過這個方式的話我們希望把這些內容也能夠提供到台灣來做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11019.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11033.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
可以麻煩用一個月的時間把有關於國際有關相關的研究成果可以匯報到本席這邊來做一個書面報告我們共同來瞭解那就麻煩部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11035.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11054.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這是有關於今天最重要很讓人家覺得沉重的一個議題那接下來就是想要跟部長討論一下有關於推動在宅醫療的這個可行性跟必要性因為上個禮拜去彰化做了一些視察跟了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11054.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11083.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
到底我們在未來超高齡社會當中如何去因應目前在治療或者是服務上的困境因為到2025年我們就知道臺灣進入到65歲以上的長者超過20%這樣超高齡社會的這種現況那在面對這樣的現況的時候有提到對策跟方案這個對策方案裡面倒宅式的健康照護是一個很重要的一個環節 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11084.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11109.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那針對這部分當初也訂了一些目標包括要在112年的時候可以提供相關的這個擴大居家服務方案裡面有3000家可以進行相關的服務內容那不知道這個目標去年的達成率是如何這是112年就希望能夠到達3000家 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11112.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11129.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
這是有 去年的話是有達標去年是有達標 那很棒很恭喜因為如果能夠提供比較好的大宅服務的話相對來講就可以讓我們這些失能或是外出就醫不方便的這些長者可以得到好的醫療招募的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11131.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11147.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那這邊也提到說每一年會試著做年度的方法來做改善或者是做調控那有沒有更符合現狀需要的這些做調控的部分的內容各位請部長讓我們知道一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11148.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11167.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
第一個當然就是說我們希望這一個能夠範圍更擴大第二個部分的話就是所謂的在宅醫療的部分的話那我們會把在這種長照機構裡面的住民把它納進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11169.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11196.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
因為他同樣的需要就是說醫療團隊進入到機構裡面去提供這些服務這是一個另外一個就是說在宅醫療的這個團隊要跟所謂的我們目前長照的所謂的居家失能者的這個服務的方案要把它整合在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11197.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11217.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
所以這是目前我們既定的要推動的一個方向在義務運上有沒有更能夠讓參與者可以更願意來投入這兩個部分在健保的部分的話那他的支付標準的話也現在正在研議要增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11218.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11243.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
另外一個就是在長照的部分的話也會有一些資源可以進來所以未來希望除了在宅醫療以外智慧醫療如果透過好的方式也可以提供更好的誘因幫這些服務的單位建構更好的智慧方式在宅醫療在執行過程當中有一些可能可以用遠距醫療來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11248.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11260.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
所以如果能夠把這個部分做好的話除了符合社會需求以外其實對於醫療的這個資源的永續經營是有很大的幫助那最後還有一點點時間就是有關於這個藥品違規廣告亂象的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11267.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11291.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
這個也是讓社會覺得很傷腦筋的事情尤其最近日本出現這種健康品導致民眾傷害的事情那臺灣一直也受困於很多的藥品不當使用不一定是藥品或者是健康品的這些補充品的不當使用導致洗腎人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11292.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11312.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
他可能是有相關性那這個當然他的相關性有多高是一個可以探討的事情不過很多的會把他當作一個不當用藥習慣導致的一個傷害那這部分我們也知道其實很努力的想要去找出 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11313.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11314.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我是跟我們12層的同仁講 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11339.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11356.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這個違法的藥品的廣告要取締的方向重點過去都放在廣告但是因為我在地方做過我知道有一個狀況你如果去找到了這一個廣告組的話通常他都是人頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11358.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11383.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
他可能就是那單親的媽媽啦或是反正就是很可憐的一個家庭的他出來掛這個名他做這個廣告被你查到的話衛生局不太敢下重手去罰他因為他可能生活就會受到影響但是這個重點是怎麼樣是這藥怎麼樣提供給民眾所以是實體的那個藥才是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11384.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11402.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那要從哪邊出來哪邊製造哪邊出來怎麼樣配送到這個民眾的手裡的話內部人最知道所以我現在請他們去擬一個計畫就是吹哨者的這一個鼓勵吹哨者的計畫我們可以從這這邊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11405.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11419.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
處罰因為如果是藥品的部分的話他的處罰金額是蠻高的我們可以從他的處罰金額裡面去提撥比方說10%、20%來作為獎金如果能夠查到的話我就 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11420.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11426.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
謝謝部長這方面的用心跟努力我們也很期待過一段時間可以看到好的參考現在正在朝你這一個規範OK好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11447.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11466.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
好 謝謝王正訓委員的質詢那主席在這邊宣告待會紅森漢委員質詢完之後我們就處理臨時提案臨時提案處理完畢之後我們委員質詢一直到羅志強委員質詢結束後我們就休息30分鐘中午給大家用餐好接下來我們請紅森漢委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11478.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11503.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
請薛部長好,請薛部長我今天看了一下這個我們委員會邀請的各部會的出席的名單我看了這個名單我替你非常憂慮我發現這件事情涉及到相關的部會出席的成績非常的低衛福部部長、司長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11507.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11511.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
其他來組長來副司長一個次長都沒有到訴發部也只來副司長其他部會都用這個態度的話我很難想像我們這是我們現在社會關注的這麼重大的事情能夠得到很好的處理啦我非常非常的憂慮我看到今天這其他部會出席的成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11538.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11565.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我很難想像這是我們在處理重大社會關注案件的態度啦不然我今天還是要跟你討論我們持續這個性犯罪影像網站後續的處理的問題我在上週質詢之後確實當天的傍晚我們看到蘇巴部就有收到衛福部發文而立刻封網這我們看到但我要提醒的事情是其實在上週當天的中午左右的時候我的助理上去看其實就已經連不進去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11567.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11583.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
所以到底現在從台灣聯不上是因為封網還是他自己在避風頭這件事情當然都有可能但至少確定的事情是我們都心裡有數他很有可能會用一個方式變形再出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11584.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11602.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以我要提醒部長說對於現在這個網站我就不講他的名字這個網站接下來他會用什麼樣的形式在什麼時間點再一次重出江湖我要問衛福部、數位發展部跟警政署你們有什麼主動巡查的對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11604.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11631.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
所以這部分的話主動巡查這個第一個我去也有去請教過專家他們認為說是可行對有什麼主動巡查的對策對如果在技術上是可行的我們就可能要先有一個委託案來委託民間來做這個主動巡查部長我問他如果一個禮拜後就出現了你委託案來得及嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11632.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11655.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
當然有可能來不及但是行政程序這個沒有辦法避免是但是部長我要提醒這是社會重大關注的案件如果他一個禮拜後又再一次的出現在這位大眾的目光裡面的話就會對於大家對政府來辦這個案件的信心會有非常非常重大的打擊所以我認為部長我知道你想委託專業的團隊來做這件事情這我不反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11656.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11675.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
但是恐怕我們需要更靈活甚至更及時的機制來處理這個問題甚至你要不要有一個快速的任務編組在你現在部內能夠調度的資源跟人力裡面來處理這件事情或相關的事情我覺得部長你要考慮這個事情跟委員報告我們部內的人大概沒有辦法處理這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11677.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11688.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那這個問題那怎麼辦?假設你要委託一個團隊,這可能兩三個月後啊那假設這個網站下禮拜就出現了,那我們怎麼辦?所以請委員詢問一下那個事務部有沒有能力去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11690.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11709.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
部長我跟你說要找衛福部要找速發部的事情我不會漏了他們啦我絕對不會漏了他們啦但我要跟你說因為這件事情不管怎樣你是主管機關到底速發部或其他部會有沒有這個能力坦白說你也要掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11711.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11731.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
今天其他部會有沒有能力你也要掌握因為你是主管機關我所知道是這個技術是有但是我不知道書法部有沒有這個技術那部長我請問上個禮拜之後我們有沒有開跨部會的會議來去把相關其他部會的資源做一個統籌跟統整跟瞭解跟盤點有沒有上禮拜之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11735.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11750.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
對於法務部是對於這個個案有開會啦但是這個我們是沒有沒有不然我要提醒一件事情我有聽到你之前對其他的委員的時候其實你有說上禮拜後來我們是用行政執行法36條這有風險對不對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11753.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11775.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我尊重你這個講法但就是因為假如真的有風險所以這也代表我們的動作必須更快包括我的施行細則的動作修改的動作也必須更快部長同意嗎施行細則的修改跟報告委員這還是要送到修改完之後還是要送到立法院當然要送到立法院但是總是有一個時程嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11777.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11801.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
總是有個時程會計劃嘛。部長我現在問一個問題在上禮拜我們看完我們質詢完以後衛福部有沒有召開跨部會的會議來請每一個部會一起來討論一個專案的會議來討論各個部會該組織哪些事情該做什麼分工有哪些資源要盤點部長有沒有開這個會議之前有開過啦部長之前開不行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11802.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11824.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
其實你就是應該上禮拜大家這麼關注的時候你馬上就應該要召開了嘛你召開了以後這至少是你主管機關的一個責任要擔起來嘛有些工作其他部會分工來做那是其他部會的事情嘛我們也不會漏了他們可是必須把這個事情擔起來嘛我接下來想問的問題是部長你有沒有看到往下對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11826.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11835.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這個上禮拜其實也出現這個報導報導者報導在XRX裡面大家現在發現像類似的網站他很可能他的弱點是來自他的金流所以這幾天我也跟幾個檢察官在討論這個問題他們在講到一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11842.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11858.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
如果我們可以比照查詐騙去管控跟管制他們的虛擬貨幣的帳戶的話這對這有用可是現在我們對於這性犯罪影像的網站他的金流包括他的帳戶現在管控跟管制的機制有沒有金管會金管會今天是一個專門委員吼金管會不用上來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11870.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11874.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
警官會有沒有看到這個報告那你們作為是什麼可不快一點啊警官會這個報告看了你們態度是什麼我今天沒有跟你問個案喔我今天不是問司法現在偵辦中的個案喔我說看到這個網站這裡面的內容有沒有看到有嗎那你們有沒有在建立機制你們作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11899.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11904.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我們現在目前會配合檢調這邊的調查你們的工作只是配合檢調嗎?你們的工作只是配合檢調嗎?你們沒有其他行政作為嗎?你們覺得其他行政作為跟你們沒有關係嗎?金管會你們今天為什麼沒有長官來?你是專門委員對不對?為什麼沒有其他長官來? |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11929.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11938.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
當大家現在已經知道類似的性剝削網站最重要的關鍵的痛點可能是在他的金流是在他虛擬貨幣的帳戶的時候你們的作為是什麼?是什麼?對不起聽不到你們沒有其他行政作為目前沒有其他行政作為你等於雙手一攤嘛剪掉指揮你才有作為嘛這我們怎麼可能把這件事情搞定 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11960.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11985.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
部長我要說我非常憂心啦我看到其他部會是這個態度喔我想最後我想說啦我們其實這段時間跟很多包括檢察官在討論他們其實給了幾個我覺得非常非常重要的重點啦因為其實現在我們在網路上面看到的不只是上個禮拜封網的那個網站假如現在大家去google點偷拍一大堆的網站你都還可以看得到都在上面所以它不是個案啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11987.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12012.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我們要機智去處理這個問題啊那部長我們現在針對其他網站的機制是什麼這就是我之前那講的跟委員也報告過的就是我們需要一個主動去搜尋的一個機制部長我時間快到了主席站起來我最後幾個四個建議就是我們跟幾個剪掉專業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12013.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12035.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
朋友他們給的幾個建議現在對網路犯罪除了根本的查緝被告更重要必須兼顧迅速的防止損害第二個對網路治理崇尚自由也必須注意防止非法濫用再來一個是網域名的扣押是查緝網路犯罪的手段之一但絕對不是唯一手段即時的阻斷跟屏蔽才是上策再來一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12036.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12050.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
犯罪防制不是只是檢警的事情包括電信跟網路監理的單位要怎麼發揮監理的功能個別的主管機關要積極的介入我現在覺得這個部分是我們最缺乏的部長不管怎樣這一題主管機關就是衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12051.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12070.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
也許你會需要其他的部會來協助當你的工具讓你去做執行這我都同意可是部長我覺得你應該立即召開一個跨部會的會議把這些相關的部會都找來手上現在大家有的工具有的資源或者他們應該要做什麼事情尤其是在行政端不是全部都推給檢調檢調能夠辦剛剛上面這麼多的通案嗎檢調我們現在辦一個上禮拜的這個案子就辦到 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12077.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12094.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
氣喘吁吁了啦現在呢現在有這麼多的案子你沒有可能全部都靠檢調嗎部長是不是可以盡速的這禮拜就召開一個會議好不好不然我覺得所有責任到你頭上你可能也覺得不公平啦但我覺得這事你還是必須擔起來因為你們是主管機關可以嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12096.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12119.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
好謝謝現在我們處理臨時提案總共有12案請一併宣讀臨時提案第一案新舊總統交接之際內閣看守不意為政務可以失守原此薛部長針對疫苗採購巴西進口彈蘇丹洪闖關凱凱受虐致死保齡查釋創意私房等等爭議中於民國113年4月16日下午午時前針對個人政治責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12123.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12128.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
衛福部失職、堵職以及行政消極、不作為等情勢親自撰寫檢討報告以回應臺灣社會的質疑與不滿提案人委員徒淳吉、連署人委員廖偉翔、盧憲一、陳金輝第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12139.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12153.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
請衛生福利部檢討兒少性剝削影像移除下架流程問題請衛生福利部修正性影像移除下架流程性影像處理中心板並於一個月內研擬修法兒少性剝削防治條例明定專責單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12155.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12177.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
公立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會委員審視以明確行政程序提案人委員林月琴、聯署人委員王振旭、黃秀芳、劉建國第三案據統計違反兒少性剝削防治條例的通報案件樣台中拍攝製造兒童或少年性交或猥褻行為之物品的案件數有逐年增加趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12178.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12202.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
原此要求衛生福利部、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部因於一個月內延商深入學校及社區宣導之相關作為與活動後續由教育部、衛生福利部主責辦理透過教育案例分享等方式引導兒少建立正確的自我保護觀念及求助管道並培養危機意識同時增進教師、家長及社區民眾對兒少性剝削防止議題的認識 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12205.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12220.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
相關法令規範之認知及瞭解相關求助管道提案人委員林月琴、王振旭、黃秀芳、劉建國第4案為防治兒少遭性剝削遏止兒少性影像散佈等犯刑衛生福利部應積極針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12221.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12242.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
兒少性剝削防治條例中有關提高持有兒少性影像、支付關攬等兒少性影像刑責．增加持有與支付關攬行為樣態以及行政處分及移除下架實現行政裁罰等相關程序之簡化．原此要求衛生福利部應於一個月內緊速邀請相關部會研議並修正相關規定透過網路合作完善建構數位兒少防護網 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12249.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12277.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
提案人委員林月琴、王振旭、黃秀芳、劉建國第5案2023年2月15日修正通過並公告施行之兒童及少年性剝削防治條例附帶決議之一衡量性私密影像與網際網路流傳對於被害者傷害影響甚具衛生福利部應協同相關單位統計公布各網際網路平台皆或申訴或檢舉需限制瀏覽或移除網路資料之建樹 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12277.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12298.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
完成建樹 平均完成時間 緣此請衛生福利部將統計結果公告周知 使社會輿論製造網路業者緊速下架性剝削影像之壓力以杜絕性影像再遭散佈 完善被害人保護服務提案人委員王振旭、黃秀芳、林月琴、劉建國、蘇巧慧第6案 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12300.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12326.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
按2023年2月15日修正通過並公告施行之兒童及少年性剝削防治條例衛生福利部因據此立法精神嚴懲兒少性犯罪杜絕性影像再遭散佈。原此請衛生福利部針對使兒童或少年被拍攝、自拍、製造性交或猥褻行為之性影像案件散佈兒少性影像無正當理由持有兒少性影像者三者犯罪樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12327.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12344.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
於修法前後之裁罰情形進行統計．並將統計結果送至立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提案人委員王振旭、黃秀芳、林月琴、劉建國、蘇巧慧第7案當前各議院之間在行政院及衛福部共同掛保證之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12345.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12372.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
多已用新標準貸為電資費用並發放給我國基層醫護人員然而所查相關費用自新標準訂定於二個多月迄今衛福部仍未讓各醫院收到賬款緣此決議要求速於一周內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交我國護理獎勵夜班費經費支出作業機制即發放其成說明書面報告提案人委員陳金輝陳昭芝盧憲一 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12373.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12399.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
第8案考量中央保護作業不應出現夜間時段的破口復以爐113保護專線機制以24小時全天候開辦多年並可供被害人性影像處理服務作業之借鑒是以決議要求衛福部速以二個月內啟動性影像處理中心夜間作業為前提辦理並於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交進度報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12400.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12428.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
提案人委員陳金輝、陳昭芝、盧仙依、涂泉吉第9案有鑑於南韓前總統文在寅自其任內發生N號房案件並受揭露的一個月時間內便即刻下令刪除全部涉案影音並為受害者提供法律醫療等支援且徹查所有會員身份更親自向受害者表示慰問對比我國在以國家元首的應處上始終無所作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12429.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12436.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
原此特決議最嚴厲譴責我國總統及副總統並欲請其在檢討過後速向國人致歉提案人委員陳金輝、盧憲一、圖全吉第10案對於最容易造成幼兒重症的腸病毒7一型可以透過疫苗施打來做預防及減低感染後的症狀目前僅有兩種自費疫苗可以施打可接種對象都是2個月到6歲的幼童 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12456.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12478.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
平均費用每季約4,000元施打兩劑及第三劑合計8,000至12,000元對政府鼓勵生育減輕育兒家庭負擔的政策相違原此要求衛生福利部一個月內研議提供全國6歲以下幼兒公費施打長病毒疫苗的政策方案提案人委員蘇清泉、王育敏圖全集 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12478.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12496.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
第11案根據兒童及少年性剝削防治條例無正當理由持有未成年人性影像者可處一年以下有期徒刑或併科新台幣3萬元以上30萬元以下罰金但是美國對持有此類物品的懲罰最高可處10年徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12497.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12510.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
與美國相比台灣現行法規事先太輕不足以引發警惕原要求衛福部於一個月內提出修法版本提高懲罰以遏止此類犯行提案人委員蘇清泉、邱振軍、廖偉祥 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12512.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12532.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
第12案當今社會只要有一臺智慧手機即可連線上網因此兒少在網路遊覽時有機會接觸到更多不適合其年齡的網路資訊因此在民國96年時就已經有委員提案要求政府要積極健全網路年齡驗證機制但至今兒少在網路世界漫遊時 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12533.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12558.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
政府仍未有積極且有效的年齡身份驗證方式,原此要求衛福部應會同相關單位緊速共同積極研擬有效的網路平台年齡身份驗證機制,確保未成年人接觸到網路上不適當內容。提案人委員 劉建國、林淑芬、王振旭宣讀完畢。好,我們現在處理臨時提案。來,第一案,請問主管、機關有沒有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12565.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12588.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
跟各位報告第一案的話是針對個人而來如果個人有什麼樣的問題的話第一個請委員就是去向這個司法機關去告發要不然也可以跟監察院去做檢舉那我們就進入程序來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12588.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12589.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
好,請提案委員有沒有意見?好 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12621.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12648.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
好那如果這部分是不是請部長要求衛福部針對這些案子是不是請我們部長可以針對請衛福部針對這些的案件做個檢討報告報言你現在這邊所寫的很多案子其實都不知道報告幾次了N次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12650.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12678.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那我請問一下那包含這個創意私房這個可以這個是最近的我們可以來做檢討報告好那我們針對創意私房的部分就是之前像我們剛剛講的居然4月10號可以做為什麼在檢察官在起訴的時候為什麼當下不去做這些處理我們可以做一個檢討報告來跟委員那個說明那就針對創意私房的部分請衛福部提出檢討報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12680.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12707.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
好 那就按修正後通過 來 別按就針對因為因為部長的意思是說疫苗採購巴西這些檢討報告之前已經做過了 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12708.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12730.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那我們就針對創意私房這部分提出檢討報告。好,那就待會那個修正文字再送給醫事處這邊。就針對創意私房的部分提這個檢討報告。好,來第二。 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12736.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12738.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們建議請衛福部加上法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12769.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12782.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好 提案委員有沒有意見好 那就按修正通過 來第7案用麥克風好 修正後通過 來第8案 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12797.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12813.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
第8案我們從以兩個月內把啟動改成研擬然後後面夜間作為之可行性評估規劃為前提辦理修正為之可行性評估規劃同意好 通過 來第9案 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12828.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12829.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
對,我們沒有辦法執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12843.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12870.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
報告主席有鑑於韓國也爆發過類似的案件但是他們的總統在揭露的一個月內就下令即刻刪除全部的涉案影音並且為受害者提供法律跟醫療等資源徹查所有會員的身份覺得跟韓國比起來的話我們蔡總統曾經在2023年民進黨內爆發性平事件時就出來道歉但 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12871.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12882.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我相信目前這個案件我不知道衛福部有沒有協助檢討或者是給予建議但我希望可以把這樣子的提案列入會議記錄好那委員有沒有意見紅色的我也有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12893.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12913.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我其實是覺得我想跟陳委員這邊討論其實我想這個案子大家都很關心而且其實在監督跟檢討上面也都非常非常嚴厲那我確實覺得這裡面有很深的這個幾個行政部會尤其是甚至是衛福部以外其他的部會我覺得都還有態度太慢的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12914.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12939.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那我自己是認為像以這種假設我今天要監督或檢討的話我檢討到對的人身上會比我今天所有事情全部都要去檢討蔡英文跟賴清德來的有用啦所以包括剛剛我們自己質詢的時候今天速發部不OK金管會不OK我們也都實質的點名要求他負責我覺得都沒有問題可是我覺得好像變成假設未來是一個慣例說任何大小小事情都要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12939.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12961.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
在對話委員會做一個提案說檢討蔡英文跟檢討賴清德我覺得這個不一定對實質的事情會有到進展比例原則上啦在黨內爆發心平爭議的時候都可以出來做一些關懷或是道歉在比例原則上目前這個受害者是不計其處應該至少上萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12962.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12989.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
因為這些會員人數加加是一萬多人在這樣子的狀況下都沒有出來表態我想全國人民是看在心中所以如果可以的話我知道可能沒有辦法實際在這邊做出任何作為或是有任何檢討報告但我們還是想要把這樣子的訴求列入會議記錄不知道可以嗎主席有啊你已經提案一定是在會議記錄裡面啦沒問題只是這一個提案有沒有通過的問題來黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12992.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13016.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
其實對於包括當時民進黨內的這個性平案件的時候大家也都非常非常的憤怒所以當然當時賴副總統當時是賴主席所以他因為他是黨主席所以他出來表態可是我我我我比較建議的事情是說如果今天哪一個行政官員他有說錯什麼話我們要檢討他要譴責他我覺得這有點道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13017.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13043.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
可是這種就是說因為他沒有臉書沒有表態或者是什麼東西我覺得這個就這個此例一開後面就很多類似的檢討其實我覺得常常就變成是打在棉花上不一定會有實質的效果我是做這個提醒跟我覺得我們可以再討論一下怎麼讓大家現在確實覺得該檢討的事情可以檢討在點上面我比較建議是這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13046.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13049.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
主席還是我們可以做表決嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13053.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13076.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好 那個讓楊委員講一下這個還是最好不要表決啦我覺得陳委員假如是要留一個記錄呢那我看衛福部也不可能在這邊同意這樣子的決議啦那當然我們委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13077.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13104.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
做的決議並不一定要經過行政機關的同意 這個沒有錯可是呢 我們在在衛環委員會做出譴責總統、副總統這樣子的決議我覺得我覺得有一點有一點怪啦是不是假如你要留一個記錄的話反正有提案就有記錄嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13105.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13134.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那也不要表決啦因為我想我在這個委員會很久了很少有表決的我們就是找一個大家可以接受的方式讓他留下記錄那也不要為難到行政機關這樣子好不好所以楊委員認為目前我們就是持續在委員會中究責這些相關的部門就這樣就可以了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13137.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13144.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
也不是我們委員會究責就是你的提案應該會在委員會留下記錄這樣子就是說大家有不同意見暫緩處理就要記錄了啊暫緩處理也要記錄啊我們現在所有的發言都會有記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13164.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13185.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
好主席我這一案就先留下會議記錄就好好好那謝謝呃陳委員那我們呃第九案就是暫緩處理留下記錄來第十案第十案行政機關有沒有要修正的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13190.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13192.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
第11案可不可以請委員將一個月內提出修正為研擬研擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13231.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13231.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
所以． |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13251.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13279.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
所以我們是建議就是說還是一個月內那個研擬啦但是研擬的話會送到立法院來可能時間上你們來不及啦因為一定要還要走行政院的院會所以我們先研擬但是我們有一個文字到時候委員這邊在變案審查的時候我們也可以提供做參考這樣子對我想必須是要這樣子所以就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13281.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13304.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
或者是你們文字要怎麼樣稍微調整因為這個修法會很快不會等你們在走行政院再進來就這個會期一定就處理完畢了那所以你們就寫言理也沒有關係但是到時候委員會修法的時候你們就要把你的意見表達出來好不好好通過來第12 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13307.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13324.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
第12案其實這個已經是老問題了但是在執行上確實是有困難那我們會積極研擬所以文字有要調整嗎沒有沒有嗎好沒有要調整那就通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13327.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13329.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
接下來我們請黃珊珊委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13361.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13361.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13376.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13395.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
好的部長我也是很詫異今天其他單位來的層級實在是不夠高但是聽完剛剛幾位委員的質詢覺得全身冒冷汗所以我要問的是我看到了你的報告你的報告裡面有幾個問題第一個就是我們有移除的 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13395.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13406.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
全力我們有移除的實際的作業但是在112年開始法施行之後有767件通知移除為什麼只有86%通過另外13%是怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13414.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13436.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
為什麼你去申請移除還有移除不成的這13點13點3的案件是怎麼回事這可能我還要再還是你也不知道不曉得你的報告你都不知道的話我們聽報告的人就更不知道了也就是說我們發文去移除還可以移除不成功表示我們政府的公權力都沒有辦法執行到 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13437.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13450.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
即使是衛福部做了報告叫他移除告訴我們還有13%的案子移除不掉這才是你要繼續追蹤的事吧如果這些業者不同意你罰了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13452.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13474.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
對,但是有時候是業者他不是不同意他是說他沒有接到他沒有接到但是你們移過去的都已經由政府部門移過去他還不處理這件事情我要知道這13%怎麼回事第二個你罰了沒依規定他如果不按照你們的規定必須要處罰這是第一個問題有沒有罰什麼時候要罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13475.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13504.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
這個部分的話因為我們現在是兩階段嘛第一個階段的話就是先要求下架嘛如果他不下架的時候才會進行他不下架你也做不到你自己的報告這樣寫你要告訴我這些沒下架的人沒下架業者你怎麼處理所以現在可能有一些事還在爭議當中嘛那也就是說他在 argue說沒有收到這一個如果連你們認為要移除的他都可以不移除你的公權力不彰你如何要求人民相信他相信你他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13505.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13524.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
在爭議就是說他沒有收到這一個這個送達嗎?他沒有收到送達我需要的是你一個禮拜之內把這一百多件為什麼沒有處理處理的進度如何然後他們為什麼不處理不處理你處罰了沒有這些東西麻煩你給我一個報告第二個部分就是剛剛講這個是移除 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13525.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13554.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那還找得到人現在的問題是有一大堆是在境外的網站找不到人所以進到所謂的相關的程序要去屏蔽這個案子舊黃子教的案子我想問一下這個案子你們有接獲任何檢察官或法院來函說要去屏蔽嗎沒有也就是法務部檢察官有發文給數發部或者是衛福部說請你們去屏蔽嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13555.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13571.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
有沒有?有還是沒有?向法院申請所以沒有這個案子即使檢察官已經認為他所謂的兒少性剝削的性影像也沒有向主管機關通報說請你們去屏蔽對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13574.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13597.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
在創意思訪偵查的期間當中有向法官申請域名有向法官申請法官有准還是沒准有法官有准准了之後屏蔽了嗎屏蔽了但是之後因為他就是重新換了一個網站好所以我們法院有做現在就是部長現在就是有人馬上立刻換個名字又可以重新來過這才是我們就像社會安全網一樣為什麼有漏洞這就是漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13598.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13607.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
第二個我剛剛聽到幾位委員在問你的問題其實這我想問的我們有沒有主動尋往的功能沒有目前沒有我要講的是齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13608.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13631.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
衛福部包括依美廣告每天都有人上網去看你可以去抓依美廣告的人力來做安全尋網的工作而少性剝削影像的工作不是沒有人力只是你用什麼人力而已大概都是委外的是委外我同意趕快做顯然主動尋網這件事情政府沒有做第二個剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13633.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13659.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
如果發生的狀況這種預防性的下架第一個法院做了但第二個後續他繼續在做的事情就沒人管了如果可能的話這些相關的後續作業衛福部跟法務部也好他要結成一個類似社會安全網的通報機制然後由衛福部這邊主責找數發布大家一起不是等到新聞出來鬧大了才來做屏蔽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13660.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13679.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
表示做得到只是不做而已而且前面不知道不知道這件事情才比較可怕這還是要能夠主動尋往才能夠放出來除了主動尋往還有剛剛講的法務部跟你們的互相連線法官做了法務不知道檢察官知道衛福部不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13680.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13706.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
如果我們在尋訪的時候這些就變成高度黑名單他就應該放在我們的名單上每天上網去查有沒有這個名字跑出來有的話就再殺對吧部長所以你需要的是人力還有物力但是我今天聽到的是如果一個政府他各單位還叫委員去問另外一個單位你這位部長叫吳棟樹發部的意思然後是不是要到行政院長去叫樹發部來幫你做事 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13708.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13720.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
這一個部分的話其實是不是拜託立委去問書發布啊是你要能夠找得動書發布幫你跟你一起工作啊怎麼會在立法院說啊你們委員去問另外一個部門而且另外一個部門還不來 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13721.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13751.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
部長我想這個事情兩件事第一個給我剛剛的問題第二個主動尋往跟預防性下架這是一個重要的東西但是在確保人民的相關的權利跟隱私的情況下我們要做到橫向聯繫第二個衛福部要有主動出擊的能力否則你空當所謂的主責機關但是沒有任何實益第三個最後就是這個移除跟屏蔽在地方屬於地方政府請問地方政府是誰來做這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13752.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13770.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
你說叫這些電信業者或者網路業者讓他們移除那在主責機關在地方政府我說法令的這個執行的部分的話還是社政機關社政機關所以在地方政府就是社會單位對對所以這個部分一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13771.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13772.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
謝謝黃先生委員接下來我們請黃捷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13801.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13828.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好謝謝主席我們請法務部好請法務部請問今天法務部來的是副司長嗎?是我是假設副司長前門會好副司長我想請教一下因為其實這個創意私房這個案子我看了一下判決書其實在2020年就已經有找到這個最主要的主謀就是一個叫做老馬的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13829.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13851.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
在高雄的地方法院判決他有期徒刑四個月那時候在這個判決書裡面有記載說這個老馬的網站真實姓名年級均不詳我想問一下現在過了四年你們現在到底有沒有掌握到這個老馬到底是誰是哪一國人然後這個網站的網址跟主機現在到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13853.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13868.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
報告委員主機在美國那有關於這個呃就是判決書上所交代那個姓名年級不詳的那個老馬的部分講官這邊有繼續的追查目前還在追查中目前還在追查中追查了4年但是都沒有任何的下文是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13869.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13885.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
因為有一些證據蒐集的關係所以但是蔣官有持續積極在偵辦中這就是我覺得非常不積極的地方已經過了四年然後後續都還是不斷有新的受害者出現但是到現在你們卻沒有辦法掌握到 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13886.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13909.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這個組謀到底是誰然後年級姓名君不詳那現在知道說這個主機在美國我不知道說你們現在跟美國有沒有任何的就要談任何的司法互助或者是說請他們協助調查的部分跟委員報告因為這個部分個案在地檢署偵辦中那如果地檢署這邊認為有這個司法互助的需要的時候會請這個法務部的這個國兩司來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13913.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13937.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我是希望說我們法務部要趕快把這個正確的資訊掌握到然後趕快跟國人來報告說這個案子到現在你們掌握到什麼進度而不是到現在就是雙手一攤好像我們政府什麼事情都沒有辦法做那另外就是大家有提到說現在我們想要去掌握這整個偷拍論壇他們的犯罪的過程掌握金流是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13937.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13960.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
然後我們也知道說他們其實用了很多虛擬的貨幣來作為他們金流的工具那我也知道說現在減掉為了要打擊這個詐騙案現在也有努力的在精進這種虛擬貨幣的偵查的手法所以我想知道的是這個案子現在已經4年了現在對於虛擬貨幣的分析你沒有掌握到這個到底相關的犯罪金額是多少嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13961.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13990.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
跟委員報告因為個案的部分法務部這邊沒有辦法介入所以這個部分是有檢管在偵查中那但是委員所提到那個虛擬貨幣這個分析的部分那確實如委員所說的因為他現在就是一個很重要的就很重要的一個手法然後所以呢因此在那個打砸綱領裡面我們高檢署這邊也有就是採購相關的這個金流分析的設備那我們有就是培訓這個檢查事務官也有在個案當中所以如果地檢署有需要這個金流分析的時候也都會請求高檢署協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13991.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14010.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
好,看起來法務部不只不知道金流的犯罪金額然後連掌握這個主要的到底有哪一些虛擬貨幣的交易所也都沒有任何的掌握是這樣子嗎?你們連主嫌不知道金流不知道交易所不知道犯罪的金流總共多少金額也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14011.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14013.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
報告委員因為委員所詢問的涉及個案的偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14041.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14043.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
那這4個收款錢包現在已經匯入到111個錢包裡面那也就是說這111個錢包很有可能就是最終的受益人這些人很有可能就是販賣影片的人或者是協助拍攝的人也可能是參與犯罪的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14057.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14086.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
那裡面他們有掌握到說現在大概就是四個虛擬貨幣的交易所就是幣安然後MAX然後銀幣寶還有王牌這四個主要的交易所其中有兩個都是台灣的交易所然後在台灣也都有辦事處那我有看過法務部你們有說現在幣安是在海外的交易所中唯一能夠配合檢調調查的所以其實看起來這四個交易所裡面我們能夠掌握的就有三個了對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14088.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14088.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
法務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14116.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14137.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
好 謝謝接下來我們請洪孟楷委員進行質詢好主席謝謝麻煩請薛部長跟法務部今天是檢察司副司長是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14138.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14158.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
好請部長跟副市長好來我想大家都已經關心很多但是今天重點在於是兒少的部分對不對那部長我想先請教其實這就是有三個層面那剛剛很多委員也詢問然後還有我們行政官員講說很積極抱歉如果積極的話今天就不會在這邊還要討論這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14160.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14175.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
那大家各部會護踢皮球的狀況我們真的已經看膩了看煩了現在就是要怎麼樣來根本解決問題啊所以第一我想請教很多人都認為是說兒少性剝削條例當然我們在上一屆已經有修過法那顯然啊修法好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14176.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14183.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
所以本席以及很多位委員也都有在提到兒少性剝削條例要再加重刑責刑期或者是那個相關的罰款部長認同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14196.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14196.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
簡單來回應認不認同我們是認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14213.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14231.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
但是可能後面還有幾個會是更為重要第一個就是這一個所謂的封網的這個程序那這一次的話我們發現說如果要透過像死險細則那樣子的方法的話那就會慢了所以這個部分我們會做修正那第二個的話44條對於這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14236.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14259.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
這個持有這個兒少的關懶關懶兒少的這一個有這個處罰但是那個是對真實的人並不是對性影像的關懶那所以這個部分的話是否要增加一個條文付費來關懶性影像的部分的話要加以處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14260.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14274.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那這個部分的話我想就是說我們會做這個建議那我們提出來的這個版本也會包括這個那第三個部分就是由法律來授權我們做主動的去搜尋網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14275.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14297.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
是,好,非常好本席就是要聽到就是說要主動的搜尋以及我們也要建立兒少犯罪的資料庫所以這是本席下一個問題啊所以部長認同應該要朝向因為相關部門啊要比犯罪者更快速啦尤其犯罪者他其實很多人就講他有很多是什麼?金流啊對 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14298.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14298.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
部長同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14319.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14347.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
這我同意就是說一方面的話當然主動搜尋也可以包括金流的這部分另外一個就是我剛剛講44條那一個部分是不是如果付費去觀賞這一個好所以這主責機關是誰衛福部衛福部對不對好來那再來我們也認為是說應該要成立應該要如果說有相關的一個犯罪的話兒少犯罪資料庫也應該要把它給建立甚至有人講是說是不是應該要公佈姓名 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14350.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14372.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
這個部長你同意嗎就是兒少犯罪他有做相關的兒少性剝削的犯罪是不是要公佈姓名是不是要公佈照片這部分我要我必須要跟相關的部會來討論包括內政部跟法務部的販賣嘛我在講如果說他敢在這邊做販賣去做誘騙或是相關的有沒有必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14373.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14399.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
當然這一種是罪者是比較高的我覺得應該是可以應該是可以往這方向研擬所以有人講是說要建立分兩個前提一個是要建立資料庫就代表說這資料庫你如果說知道是說這些人是比較曾經犯過罪的很抱歉你要去被不管是列管或說做後續的一個相關的瞭解那另外第二個是說這個資料庫要不要公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14400.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14425.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那公開姓名或是公開這個照片所以這因為跟個人那個隱私有相關但他是犯罪者對所以這個要去討論是因為本席也看到另外一個就是持有啦持有這個部分是否要到說要公開是沒錯所以本席剛剛特別講是犯罪者他也有不同的層級那有就是說你 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14426.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14438.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
拿了這個影像,兒少性剝削的影像你去做販賣,你去做營利你去甚至是誘騙人家來拍那這個要不要公布? |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14439.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14440.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
最後 部長 本席 聽到你幾個都是很正向 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14467.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14483.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
但是現在突然間本身很希望520你還持續啊你這樣子你才能貫徹啊但是不管你有沒有持續啦很抱歉部會的人員都聽到了這就是應該要衛福部的態度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14484.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14502.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
要主責機關要能夠真真正正的把這些給找出來那還有為什麼會請法務部上來就是因為法務部我看到你的報告啊說實在話你們都只是講說現在有相關的條例啊那本席也要說之後我們提相關修法的時候一定會有法務部的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14503.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14532.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
也請法務部尊重立法院的相關意見該增加刑責該增加罰環的時候不要再講說什麼違反比例原則或是什麼好像讓大家覺得說在幫犯罪者逃脫或幫犯罪者講話報告委員我們絕對尊重那個委員的好非常好那本期最後30秒我沒有請訴發部上來但抱歉訴發部我一定要點名你我對事不對人我今天不知道訴發部是哪一個人來但是你也不用上來你也不用站起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14533.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14537.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
我對事不對人啊!速發布的報告是我覺得今天寫的最爛的報告! |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14539.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14567.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
你去看你裡面數位發展部我們當初要的是什麼要的是你們能夠拿一筆錢能夠對於數位發展的狀況數位犯罪、數位產業能夠去有效力的超前部去執行結果你們報告是目的事業主管機關目的事業主管機關所有都推給目的事業主管機關意思就是這都是衛福部的事啊所以衛福部如果說沒有告訴你們的話你們說一頓做一頓你們衛福部沒有講話你們連做都不做 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14568.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14597.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
啊數位犯罪是這樣嗎是我們當初順利數位發展不就認為說數位世界真的越來越龐大這個是所有大家應該要正視的問題所以我們才希望數位發展部能夠針對數位不管是產業發展不管是數位犯罪不管是相關的作為數位發展部應該超前部署而不是所有當發生事情的時候都推給目的事業主管機關那這樣要數法部幹嘛我們成立一個聯絡窗口就好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14602.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14622.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
所以拜託數位發展部一年拿公部門那麼多預算不是都是外人不要讓大家覺得說好像遇到什麼事情的時候你們是外人一樣還要拜託你們發請帖給你們發邀請函給你們你們要去做是不是該拜託就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14623.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14647.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
以上謝謝那部長拜託本席我們之後一定會相關修法你的意志一定要貫徹正向的部分一定要持續我們一起來共同推動修法我會交代下去好謝謝黃孟楷委員的質詢那等一下沈伯陽委員質詢結束之後我們就休息用餐接下來請張雅玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14658.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14680.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
謝謝主席。那我們邀請那個法務部,謝謝。好,請法務部,我們副市長。我也好。抱歉,我的螢幕好像還沒有出來。你那邊有螢幕了嗎?他那邊有就好,我這邊看不到。他現在是... |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14687.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14699.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
謝謝我想跟法務部司長討論一下就是說我們其實現在每一年的兒少性剝削案例其實是年年增加的不管是男生女生其實都是一個非常大幅度的在增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14700.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14722.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
但是我看我現在其實在網路上面找不到任何婦幼檢察官的人數的資料但是我看到就是說我們其實會針對婦幼專屬檢察官來做一些相關的一些研習會包含了就是性別平等還有這個燒性剝削法案性自主等等所以我想要先請教一下我們現在到底有多少的婦幼檢察官呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14723.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14746.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
跟委員報告就是說因為各地檢署的那個就是他的人力跟組織規模不一那我們這樣平均計算下來我們大概會有100個檢察官副右專組的甲官只是說有些比較小的地檢署他可能那個地檢署也許只有十幾個甲官所以他可能是副右專組可是他同時也是國土保護專組的檢察官所以我們計算下來大概有100位檢察官就是副右專責的檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14748.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14763.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
對,但是我們現在去做這些兒少性剝削相關的都是由婦幼專屬來處理還是有一般的檢察官可能也會處理到呢?原則上會分給婦幼專屬的檢察官但是某一些情況比較特別的時候會只分有婦幼經驗的檢察官來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14764.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14779.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
那我想再請教一下就是說因為我們現在在做一些相關的實務研討會的時候我看一下去年的資料總共參選人數只有45人可是我們的人數其實是在節節增加的那我們這該如何去因應我們現在可能在現場會有量能不足的問題呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14780.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14795.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
報告委員就是我們每一年都會分梯次的辦理相關的訓練所以就是說一個梯次的訓練可能受訓人數是45人可是這不是一個總受訓的人數所以我們每年都會辦所以我們現在這個去年的總參訓人數不是45人是嗎因為我調閱到的資料是45人 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14796.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14820.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14820.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14846.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
在檢調的過程之中再次受傷害謝謝那再來就是說我也發現就是說我們在這一次的緩起訴書裡面呢我們其實用了一些詞我發現它其實是一些慣用稿像意思思慮智力羅章然後反後以坦誠犯行聲不要回物等等等等那我覺得這些是我們常常用的慣用語這些在這樣子的案情之中這樣是否恰當呢我們是不是需要再做一些調整跟規範呢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14847.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14873.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
報告委員就是這個方框的這個用語確實是我們就是書類立稿上面用語那當時我們設計這些書類立稿其實是為了要就是合理化獎官的工作負擔因為獎官案件量真的很多所以在定型案件當中我們去做一些立稿的設計那委員指出來的確實非常有道理所以我們會回去再檢討那也會就是請獎官在個案當中可能要更詳細的去續名就是給予還起訴處分的這個理由這樣這個理由是比較堅實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14875.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14886.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
對這樣子會比較能夠去不會讓一般的大眾或是這個受害者再次受傷是謝謝那再來就是我要邀請的是這個所謂的嗯下一頁好抱歉我要邀請衛福部謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14890.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14913.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
部長我想請教一下齁就是說我們這一次啊在這次性剝削條例啊我們是對於觀看未成年兒少有處罰機制對不對這個是具體的實際上的人不是影像對我們但是我們是針對於因為我看一下你看我們其實是支付對價關懶兒童或少年性交等等等等是支付關懶對 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14914.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14936.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
所以我們其實還是處罰對價關係嘛是沒有錯但是我要強調的就是說以這一個條文跟其他條文去做比較的話如果有涉及到性影像的部分他都會特別寫所以以目前是4條是只有實際上去觀賞這實際上的人所以這是一個漏洞我們建議就是說這個可能要補起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14937.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14952.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
所以等於我再確認一下部長的意思喔所以說因為我們現在看起來只有處罰一個支付對價關係但是我們沒有處罰觀看的這個行為對不對我們沒有處罰支付對價去觀看性影像兒少性影像沒有處罰這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14952.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14975.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
對對對對我們就是觀看的這部分是沒有的對不對所以我們接下來會去做一些法條的修正嗎去處罰這個觀看的對不對對因為我想這個是很重要一件事情喔因為如果我們只會一直處理供給的那個需求供給的部分可是去需求就一直存在免費的部分因為現在在推特上面也有很多的免費觀看的部分這部長這麻煩部長一定要去來做相關的這個修法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14976.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15002.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
提出相關的修法那我想知道大概什麼時候會提出來這些相關修法的版本如果說要靠衛福部這邊那程序上就會很冗長好所以這樣委員如果提案這部分會支持對吧所以如果要審查委員的案子的時候我們會把我們預定的這一個條文提出來讓大家做參考好謝謝那因為我屆時也會提出這個版本那到時候請部長一定要支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15004.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15016.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
好 謝謝接下來我們請沈博洋委員進行質詢那有請謝謝主席那有請部長謝謝好有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15024.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15047.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
大家好謝謝主席讓我可以再來這邊講4分鐘我一定會趕快的把這個4分鐘這個在實現之內結束那因為這個跟我的專業比較有關係所以呢我是想問幾件事情第一個當然就是今天大家一直在講說海巡的部分就是說能不能夠把這個影片找出來那除了電子錢包之外其實還有一個蠻重要的一點是在於說他們換網域其實換得非常快 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15047.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15067.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我以前在追這個內容農場的時候他有時候一天可以換100次都沒問題所以如果真的要追的話可能要追廣告所以這個部分要怎麼做可能之後我再跟衛福部討論這件事情那另外一件事情是因為今天最主要是在講數位相關那我稍微抓了一下數據我發現目前這個右邊這個非網路的犯罪其實他也沒有減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15069.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15083.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
也就是說網路這個部分其實跟我們現在性剝削相關的其實蠻恆定的所以我覺得應該要去細究到底是哪一塊才是跟數位最有關係那我再往下去追的話發現也是可以在衛福部的報告看到目前還是第三款最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15083.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15104.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
但因為畢竟第三款它的定義本身就跟數位比較有強烈的相關所以它可能會比較多那如果它真的比較多的話呢去細究它本身的這個原因它從5乘2一直漲到今年已經到8乘8了嘛大概8乘6、8乘8左右所以我現在想問的事情就是因為在我們的犯罪學裡面會去做這些拍攝的大部分前面都有右拐 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15104.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15132.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
右拐大概佔了可能快一半右拐之前又會有取得信任所以從取得信任一直到右拐一直到拍攝它其實是有一個流程的存在所以如果我們今天真的要把拍攝這件事情擋下來的話其實擋右拐其實變得非常的重要所以這個我就先跳過我們目前在線上右拐裡面在我們的領域裡面會去分類就是到底有哪一些人比較容易被右拐然後以及不同的兒童被右拐他的右拐的形態又不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15133.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15162.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
所以我在這邊會想要建議衛福部就是說呢如果我們先把因為今天講數位嘛所以我這邊只放線上誘拐就是線上誘拐現在是不是能夠去要做預防的話是不是要先針對不同的兒童要有不同的預防方案因為尤其是後面那兩者自願冒險者跟易受害者他跟誘拐的那個形式跟故事是會完全不一樣的這是第一點不好意思因為時間不夠所以就把它講好了那這個是誘拐的這個流程圖啦那中間那一塊最重要的還是依附的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15163.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15191.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
因為現在線上誘拐很多甚至可能有快一半他的社經地位反而是好的所以他最主要反而不是因為這個使用網路等等的原因而是因為爸媽的陪伴太少了那他的依附需求不夠就容易被線上誘拐容易被線上誘拐就進入到我們現在最多已經占到快八成的那一個拍攝的部分所以要怎麼去解決前面的依附需求就變得非常的重要那今天教育部也有提到就是說要怎麼去做一些相關的教育的方式所以我去稍微整理了一下文獻就是在於說 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15192.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15205.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
畢竟就像我們今天在面對詐騙集團假設你先告訴他講說現在ATM轉帳是最流行的方式他哪一天接到電話聽說有這個ATM的這個詐騙方式他第一個反應一定會出來就認為說這個會不會就是最新的詐騙手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15208.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15232.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
現在我們有做語意分析就是我列在右上方的他們大量的把目前有在做線上誘拐的人他們都有劇本有對話記錄把那個對話記錄去做分析之後以現在的標準甚至可以用AI也就是說他可以把他線上誘拐的那個劇情他怎麼去稱讚那種欠缺衣服的小孩那個稱讚的語法把它全部整理出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15233.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15261.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
然後整理出來之後他在教育預防的時候他就把別人用這種語法怎麼講去告訴小孩子所以小孩子以後遇到這種讚美的語法的時候他就會知道說這就是最典型的線上誘拐的語法他就不容易被拐騙在拐騙這一個方面先停下來的話我們也就不用一直去執著在後面到底我們要加重多少的刑度我們要海巡到多少的程度因為這可能可以擋掉一半的案件量然後之後再透過其他修法的方式去做後續的規範這是我的一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15261.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15268.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
那相關的一個討論可能要等到後面因為時間不夠所以很不好意思沒有讓部長回答謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝沈博洋委員那我們現在用餐我們1點15分再繼續開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15284.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15284.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15316.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15320.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
17253.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
17257.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
好 我們繼續開會 那我們請武力華委員進行質詢謝謝主席 有請法務部好 我們請法務部副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
17276.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
17294.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
委員好副市長您好請教一下這一次大家眾所矚目的這個創意私房網路論壇報道說它已經存在超過14年請教一下這個案子目前已經起訴多少人報告委員我們依據手邊的資料目前台北地檢署已經起訴11個人起訴11個人那他是屬於組織犯罪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
17306.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
17306.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
那他用什麼起訴? |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
17329.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
17349.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
而少性剝削防止條例那請教一下我們現在會在這邊討論就是因為他最大的問題就是抓不到人那我們知道的是報導有說其實這個網路論壇他在過去有被抓到過 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
17351.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
17377.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
當時也有查出有287位的受害者但是創辦人始終就是沒有被抓到那最重要的原因就是他會更換網域IP位置然後繼續的運作所以想要請教您像這一次查到之後又把它封印那請教就是除了等事件爆發封印那有沒有思考其他的制裁作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
17379.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
17393.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
跟委員報告就是有關於這個就是封網的這個部分在現在的制度規定之下大概有兩種途徑一個是蔣官在偵辦犯罪的過程當中把這個就是把這個網路的部分當成是一個可以作為這個犯罪的這個證據 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
17395.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
17424.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
那這個部分就比照刑事訴訟法的規定來向法院申請做這個扣押的網域的名稱就把它當成是一個扣押那事實上那個創意私房這個案件在過去甲官偵辦的時候北建甲官也有提出事證向法院申請扣押也獲得法院裁准這是第一種途徑那第二個途徑呢就是就是目的事業主管機關按照這個耳燒性剝削防治條例的這個規定來做這個封網那這兩個途徑事實上它是可以並行不備的所以就是很有效的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
17425.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
17446.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
在現行的法制之下有這樣子的兩種途徑可以來做出那請問像他大家都說IP通常都是在境外那現在有在做跨國合作嗎所以這種封網他就是在境外那封網的意思就是說讓國內的人沒有辦法就是看到那個網站的內容那我們究竟能不能夠抓到源頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
17447.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
17463.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
抓到源頭這個部分就是還是要由這個檢察官按照個案的這個事證還有就是相關的這個卷證資料看看可不可以向上那你們有幾層把握我們檢察官一定全力以赴就是每個案件的那個證據狀況還有就是他的那個客觀的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
17463.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
17492.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
我們今天其實來這邊其實就是因為抓不到所以大家都很苦惱必須要在這邊來了解一下那我們知道我們的警政署的像各警局的副右隊他其實我們看到他有把兒童及少年保護性侵害這種都是列入他們的一個業務範疇了我們今天看到各部會的一個夜報也都有看到說要去配合做什麼做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
17493.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
17511.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
那現在就是到底法務部或者我們的衛福部我們的警政署、數發部、教育部、通傳會等等今天部會都有說要怎麼做怎麼做能不能夠成立一個具有性平之能跟數位偵查能力的專責單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
17513.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
17528.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
就法務部的部分就是說我們地檢署的部分我們在處理這個就是像兒少性剝削防止條例或者是復幼案件我們有復幼專責的假案那我其實是說因為我們看到你們的夜報法務部會有一個科技偵查中心在高檢署對高檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
17529.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
17539.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
現在為什麼抓不到因為他是透過虛擬貨幣那麼可以看到這個流程圖其實我們就很清楚的看到他透過現金然後購買虛擬貨幣然後去購買這樣的一個影片再給這個生產者 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
17544.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
17544.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
提供討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
17560.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
17576.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
民間單位的免費軟體分析是可以做得到他查到89個收益錢包表示有89個收受這樣的一個虛擬貨幣那我們就不曉得說高檢署調查局你們有沒有採購這種避留分需的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
17576.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
17591.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
報告委員高檢署有採購這個必流分析的工具也有派甲事務官去受訓所以可以分析那有分析工具要有人會用像去年我們可以看到警政署他們有要特訓500名的必流分析師那請問你們也有這樣的一個規劃嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
17592.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
17615.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
高檢署這個部分是有派那個假事務官去受訓好那因為時間的關係齁我們就是希望說對於今天我們所安排的主題這種數位技術普及所造成的兒少性剝削的案件增加我們希望說我們的境內犯罪儘管會跟檢調他們現在是有一個金融資料調閱的電子平台可以加速詐騙的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
17616.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
17642.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
我們也希望你們比照銀行丈夫的做法去建立一個虛擬資產其實我今天也想要問一下衛福部長主席可以讓我再問一個問題我就是想要請教一下我們的部長就是因為我們國家人權委員會他在2020年他有公佈兒少性剝削大概有1696個案例其中私密兒少影片類占八成 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
17643.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
17665.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
所以這個部分其實真的是很嚴重那部長您同不同意因為我們國內目前還沒有虛擬貨幣專法那事實上這個很重要就是它可以有效的查緝這個犯罪者所以不曉得這個部分您支不支持保安委員對於虛擬貨幣這個我不在行所以我很難去做評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
17666.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
17683.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
但是你贊不贊成如果有一個法可以幫助我們有效的查緝到犯罪者那希望你要支持因為我們也很多人一直在要求那最後我就是想要請教一下部長要盤點一下因為我們這次很生氣的原因是當我們比較同樣的犯罪類型 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
17685.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
17705.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
像美國對於這個持有的影像他是處10年以下徒刑12歲以下的兒少性影像是20年以下那像韓國持有的話也是3年以下可是我們這一次就是對於我們去年的修法結果呢還讓人家變成還起訴等於沒有犯罪記錄然後只是腳褲我們都覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
17709.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
17734.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
沒有辦法接受,所以衛福部這邊有什麼做法嗎?跟委員報告好,那臺灣這個目前是一年以下有期徒刑,這個是學日本跟韓國的。剛剛所提到的如果說刑度是比較高,通常他都不是單純持有。有沒有修法方向?還是不必修了? |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
17735.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
17736.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
接下來我們請麥玉珍委員進行質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
17767.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
17793.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
有請衛福部好請部長好謝謝部長身為一個單親媽媽所以很擔心我們的孩子就是我們希望他健康成長但是這個過程中很多就是藝人利用這樣子的小孩子對 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
17795.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
17817.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
這個藝人的偶像來去做這樣子的一個傷害所以我們要保護他們不受到任何不合理的對待所有的家長所以也是政府應該要盡責的義務請問部長認為衛福部對起地兒少性剝削的方面的力度有足夠嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
17818.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
17840.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
跟委員報告,在目前來講的話,其實在去年曾經就修過一次法那對於這一些有關於兒少性剝削的部分的話,那行者都有提高啦那現在的問題就是說,像剛剛提到單純持有的,那是不是要提高刑度,這都可以來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
17842.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
17865.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
但是另外一方面的話是那如果說提高刑度但是如果沒有辦法確實的抓到這一些犯罪的人那也是白搭啦因為在網路世界裡面的犯罪行為的話要去偵查不是那麼容易所以一定要有一些數位技術來輔助才可以搭得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
17866.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
17894.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
我是認為是整體的法則是太輕了還有說我們有修法但是有追蹤有真的有去起地嗎還有就是說買賣拍攝持有還有被害人的身上就是起地的利益所以這些壞人這些就是我們的法制沒辦法去法他是說我們要修法因為真的太輕了所以大家就會對 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
17896.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
17905.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
法者的制度我們部長覺得要調多少才能是法的就是更有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
17906.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
17926.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
這個部分的話其實是整體而言的話必須要像是法務部這邊來做整體評估因為這要跟各種不同的犯罪的類型去做比較不能說突然這個特別重那其他的一般社會認為說比較嚴重的犯罪的話罰的變成比較輕這樣也不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
17927.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
17951.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
當然我們是要依法來去說各部會、跨部會來去處理這樣子才達到效果嘛但是說我們的基層的公務人員像警察就是要去執法要去幫忙去抓但是到我們上面這邊的罰款又再清了又沒有達到這個效果變成是要在第一線的執法是真的很辛苦啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
17952.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
17981.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
對所以說我剛才我們部長有講說我們要請NCC來去回答一下說因為網路無法去抓他們合法所以這樣子的話我們未成年的影像所以在流傳不要任何人就是要去買賣這個是很重要的但是呢我們請問一下在網路上的這樣子公開的拍賣的未成年的影像還有賺進大量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
17981.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
17981.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
發言員發言員 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
18001.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
18016.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
這樣子的話說我們沒辦法去追溯這樣子我們NCC要如何就是要去罰還有才不會如果去起地才不會讓我們的小孩子惡度傷害因為這個是我們NCC要去把關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
18019.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
18019.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
國務委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
18049.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
18077.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
但是如果需要採取追查犯罪他還是會移送到那個警政機關或檢調機關我想要請問說是說我們是有這樣子的一個順序跟流程但是跨部會有沒有沒有緊急或者是共同真的去處理這件事情還是說我們只是說我們有跨哪一個部會啊哪一個部會處理啊哪一個部會會做啊但是到最後誰要去追蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
18077.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
18081.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
接下來我們請徐欣盈徐欣盈徐欣盈委員不在請鄭天才委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
18126.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
18146.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
主席、各位委員、部長好,有請薛部長部長好因為剛才在內政委員會議題很多就那邊來不及質詢因為部長也在這裡所以就特別針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
18149.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
18173.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
財團法人政災基金會有關住宅重建重構正住的一個申請的條件這裡面特別提到第一頁就是要用低收入戶的標準第二頁是中低收入戶的標準死亡的部分是沒有分的現在就是要談這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
18177.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
18204.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
我們看這個監柱張誠財政法人政災基金會這是衛福部成立的一個公辦的這個基金會財政法人這個監柱張誠關於協助災民住宅重建重構的事項這裡面只有提到災期重建災民並沒有提到條件就像死亡沒有條件一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
18205.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
18230.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
好 這個財務法人政災基金會的監促網站你們請大家趕快監管監管這裡面也沒有說我怎麼樣的要設定條件要不要設定條件 沒有寫我們看 特殊監獄家庭 我是舉例你用低收入戶 中低收入戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
18232.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
18259.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
這樣的一個標準到底是妥不妥當因為你衛福部社會救助法就有低收入負對不對中低收入負也有社會救助啊對不對災害防救法也是災害救助那是政府機關要做的事情那現在我們用民間的監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
18260.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
18277.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
我們現在就是我是建議不要去設定這些條件因為有很多的邊緣婦有很多的邊緣婦很需要啊所以這個部分我舉幾例子特殊近異家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
18278.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
18303.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
他不是用低收入戶、中低收入戶他用每人每月未超過政府當年公布最低生活費的2.5倍他就是比那個1.5倍還高對不對?中低收入戶是1.5倍他這個就是2.5倍不僅僅是這樣喔還有一個法律可以參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
18306.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
18327.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
內政部新辦社會住宅出租辦法第3條對於社會住宅的出租的規定最低生活費的3.5倍這個就是要去解決何況要去解決這個邊緣負 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
18329.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
18341.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
何況又是民間的監管民間的監管所以這個部分對一個受災婦而言還要分這個就有差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
18343.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
18357.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
可以嗎?這個是不是?這個修正很容易啊?剛才我們報告齁,目前的話大概是這樣子的齁。那政策基金會現在正在收這些善款。那我的印象中已經達到8億多了。已經9億了。OK。好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
18361.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
18386.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
現在是要怎麼樣去支付就是說補助出去那正在基本上現在它所設定的就是有四個大項目那住宅重建是其中的一個那當然剛剛我們有提到死亡、重傷這部分它本來就有一個標準在那個地方但是不是說只有那個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
18387.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
18403.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
也就是說他如果他的善款收的比較多一點的話他那個標準是可以提高的所以這個部分的話會在政策基金會裡面他們的董事會會做討論之後的話會到衛福部這邊來 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
18406.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
18423.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
其實行政院也有召集包括衛福部包括政財基金會一起在做討論做這一方面來做討論那四個方向是確定但是四個方向要怎麼樣去做補助這個還有這個他的內容要怎麼樣去制定的話現在還在討論當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
18425.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
18450.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
就是請這個部長請衛福部能夠提到這個這個政災基金會的會議你們來討論這生活補助啦重建啦還有這個死亡那個重傷的慰問啦這部分的話都會根據這個收進來的錢有多少再去做這一個制定那個標準最後這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
18454.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
18454.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
李彥秀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
18488.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
18499.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
我是不是可以先請法務部的檢察官、檢察司?好,我們請法務部副司長、檢美會副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
18502.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
18505.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
臺北地檢署對外聲明這樣的緩起訴並沒有被輕重 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
18531.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
18532.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
副市長你也這麼認為嗎?你個人也這麼認為嗎?那您個人呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
18556.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
18576.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
我個人不好對那個表達意見因為我今天是代表法務部在這邊備詢好 那我必須還是要講啦就是說臺北地檢署對外的聲明我覺得跟民眾的觀感感受上實際上是有落差的我是不是可以先暫停請那個我們新康寺的陳市長一起上臺好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
18579.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
18608.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
市長,黃�子嬌在事情爆發之後她曾經在直播的時候是特別去強調說她從小成長的過程當中包括因為母親的關係有外遇的情境還有性病態的一些相關的一些習慣也提到就是說親子關係的缺點包括扭曲的性認知我們都知道扭曲性認知會不會是變成未來再犯的危險因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
18608.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
18612.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
從心理治療的層面上,你怎麼去看待這件事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
18623.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
18651.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
跟委員報告那原則上我們是覺得說這個案要不要做治療其實是可以透過鑑定的程序啦那您就他過去在媒體上他直播的過程您覺得要不要再做心理的治療從預防再犯啦就是說因為會有這樣子的狀況其實包括成長的過程或許都是因素之一你覺得需不需要再做心理治療預防再犯會不會比較對預防再犯會不會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
18653.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
18669.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
當然對這種行為上的問題透過治療或輔導對他行為改變事項謝謝市長你的回應副市長所以這個就是我要強調的就是說我覺得我們的緩解數位的條件無論是支付公庫或者寫悔過書其實民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
18670.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
18691.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
更期待更期待更擔心的就是說如何預防再犯這件事這也就牽涉到我們社會安全網我認為預防再犯在這件事情上是完全被棄守為什麼我這麼說因為預防再犯其實我應該我應該是說司法不應該成為犯罪者的避風港那當然更不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
18692.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
18721.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
對於犯罪被害人對於國家制度現在輕重這些人變成失望的缺口所以我覺得矯正治療預防再犯是整件事情我關注度比較高的我關注這件事情那法務部能不能對現在我們對於緩解數我們有要求說什麼未來加強心理治療心理諮商心理輔導預防兒少剝削案再犯我覺得這一個部分我們能不能加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
18722.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
18745.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
報告委員就是緩起訴處分的規定規定在刑事訴訟法253條之二那它總共可以有8款的事由那就會涵蓋委員剛才所提到的比方說要命這個被告來完成戒癮治療、精神治療、心理治療、心理諮商、心理輔導或者是其他再犯必要的命令好時間先佔領我是不是也可以請我們金管會跟警政署代表上台一下我快速的 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
18748.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
18756.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
因為這個案子包括他整個金流的過程是用虛擬貨幣那虛擬貨幣其實匿名化去中心化是一個重點那我特別關注到4月12號公開創立私房特別在他的金流上 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
18766.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
18785.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
因為無論如何他再用虛擬貨幣最後還是一定要用法定的貨幣去做支換那4月12號那一天新聞露出的時候我也看到檢察官寫了一段話就說其實前年已經有關注過相關的金流並且持續關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
18786.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
18799.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
我覺得很好奇這件事情如果檢察官兩年前已經關注這些金流為什麼不提早兩年前就把這個就把這些創意私房這些案子揭發而讓這些網站繼續流放這些照片到底這兩年到底在等什麼在等黃道吉日嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
18806.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
18825.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
我不懂欸我不懂這個案子為什麼不能在兩年前因為只要這個影像這些影片放在網路上多一天這個對於青少年來說都是受害所以我覺得在這件事情上我覺得整個檢查單位事實上有務必有很多的檢查的必要性在 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
18827.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
18856.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
我們法務部在哪裡可不可以說明一下兩年前這個金流已經你們還特別在媒體公開說檢方前年已經注意過相關金流並持續關注那為什麼不是在前年就揭發這件事情各位委員報告因為這個部分我在想指的會不會是說因為111年的時候甲官這邊已經有起訴的這個事情因為創意四房這個案件就是在比較早所以他換了一個IP然後另外又再次上架 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
18857.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
18868.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
因為我們現在不是很了解這邊所謂的那檢方找的掌握到底是所以我覺得這個這也難怪民眾在整件事情觀感無論是在法務部無論在衛福部大家都覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
18870.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
18891.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
行政怠惰前幾天部長我請部長部長你回答說因為有相關的施行細則所以你沒有辦法在第一時間下架但是我們是根據前兩天你是根據36條第一項事實上我們如果處置必要時我們極為可以是強制下架的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
18893.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
18912.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
其實嚴格來說我們是用母法第8條對部長不管哪一條其實我們可以強制下架其實我就認為說如果我們身為執政官員我們把每一件人民在乎的事情都當作大事重要事情來辦我們就可以提早做部長我這樣講對不對相較於那一天的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
18913.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
18929.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
我們其實是希望都可以這樣但是同仁在處理這件事情的時候因為過去都依照施行細節部長從保齡案開始我覺得中央跟地方的合作我覺得都凸顯出我們的螺絲松我最後的20秒稍微 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
18930.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
18949.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
我覺得部長針對於現在輔導教育的內容我們寫了一大堆要叫他來上課什麼健康性觀念啦犯罪認識啦我覺得包括這些看錄影帶就我來看都是教材了事我覺得個案矯正治療的成效要客製化的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
18951.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
18976.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
才會真正有效預防這些犯罪或再犯部長你同意我的說法嗎一部分是同意的也就是說我覺得你目前安排的方法其實都是就看來就很容易流於形式交差了事我跟委員報告大部分在做這種認知交易的輔導的這部分的話大概就是這樣子但是有一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
18976.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
18978.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
我跟委員報告對於這種兒少性剝削的犯罪行為很多在國外的一些經驗裡面證實是那些輔導教育是沒效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
18995.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
19022.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
對嘛 所以我今天最後一個訴求最後10秒鐘我希望這個輔導教育的功能兩週之內提出精進改善的計畫怎麼樣處理甚至有些是需要客製化的處理我覺得要好好我們後面緩起訴我們有這些課程是希望可以預防再辦但到底怎麼樣預防再辦而不是讓我們這些課程流於形式我覺得是重點好不好好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
19025.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
19026.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
王宏威委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
19056.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
19062.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
好謝謝主席我請我們薛瑞媛薛部長好請薛部長部長從我們立法院開議以來我們衛福部應該是所有部會裡面爭議最多出包最多的一個部會我們在衛環裡面已經開了好幾次的專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
19087.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
19110.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
從實案問題、瘦肉精、蘇丹紅、小林紅渠到最近的保齡事件一件比一件大然後還有很多到目前為止根本沒有辦法遏止即便是說已經是系統性問題你們說會解決結果又出現新的案例比如說蘇丹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
19112.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
19128.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
比如說小林紅麴我記得當時我也在這邊詢問你可不可以協助我們受害的消費者能夠去求償我看到你們4月10號公佈了公佈之後我看不出來有什麼協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
19129.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
19146.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
我們能夠跟日本廠商求償嗎?你們只是提供小林製藥的一個客服專線所以怎麼樣還是要我們的消費者可能受害要洗腎的這些消費者他們自己單獨的去跟日本小林製藥去單打獨鬥嗎?更不要說保齡這件事情引起國民這麼大的恐慌結果現在變成一個世紀懸案 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
19157.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
19178.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
除了食安問題還有這個虐兒致死的問題好像這個新聞過去大家就不討論了可是這樣的傷痛這樣的一個問題仍然存在啊那今天開始討論我們未成年性剝削這些性影像的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
19180.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
19205.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
所以部長我如果說的好聽一點說你流年不利可能沒有安泰稅是不是哪有一個不會有可以出現這麼大的問題我說的難聽一點是不是在你領導之下我們衛福部整個螺絲鬆掉了怎麼可能連續發生這麼多的重大事件一個一個燒不完呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
19206.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
19213.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
如果回過頭去,剛好我們不講,連蘇丹紅又出現新的案例啊。保齡還是沒有辦法給我們一個答案啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
19214.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
19240.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
所以這樣子的問題說實在因為現在接近520交接叫你現在下台也沒有什麼意義可是終究坐一天和尚轉一天鐘我們真的很擔心如果按照這樣的一個這樣子發展的話我們會不會再有什麼樣的讓我們社會不可承受之重的這些社會案件、食安案件這些兒童保護的案件繼續發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
19242.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
19251.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
所以部長你要不要對社會大眾道歉啊我知道你有很多對個案道歉可是有這麼多事件要是我都覺得很不好意思欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
19253.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
19272.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
你自己心裡做何感想每一個案件他都有這個一些問題存在這是沒有錯那我們是每一個案件問對問題去解決問題有解決嗎當然是有部分的解決有些事還在解決沒辦法解決我剛剛講了哪幾個解決了嗎你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
19276.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
19299.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
蘇丹紅的案件的話最近出來的那個是最收尾的也就是在我們全面的邊境管制還在收尾那時候跟我們講說不會再發生我們在邊境管制全面的邊境管制之前好啦我時間有限我現在覺得你應該鄭重跟社會道歉啊我剛講這麼多的案件通通發生在每一個案件我們都是正面去面對正面去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
19300.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
19324.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
我就跟你講嘛,你沒有解決啊!為什麼你的部會發生的問題這麼多呢?其他部會怎麼沒有那麼多問題呢?你還能夠強辯?不能怪你嗎?怪我嗎?怪這些死掉的兒童嗎?怪這些受害的這些未成年嗎?怪這些因為食案問題而死活活在家戶病房的人嗎?你講話有人性嗎?不能怪你,怪誰呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
19325.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
19341.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
我說沒有辦法去怪說哪一個部會的這一個每個案件會出來的時間會聚集在一起這個並不是說我們去這樣這是偶然會聚集起來是偶然不是必然不是因為你領導的衛福部的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
19345.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
19360.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
為什麼會有這樣系統問題我告訴你現在系統性的問題不是只有食安是在你薛瑞元領導的衛福部出現了系統性的問題啊你到現在還不願意跟社會大眾道歉我真的覺得你不知道哪來的底氣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
19361.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
19376.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
真的太離譜 哪裡有一個部會可以出這麼多的包出不完欸 而且到現在為止沒有解決問題啊我要問什麼 問不完啊 給我們每一個委員兩個小時都問不完 通通沒有答案嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
19378.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
19401.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
你還笑得出來我真的是佩服你你怎麼還可以笑得出來啊要是我無地自容好不好部長若是我的話真的我會覺得無地自容我會覺得對社會大陸真的很對不起很多事情沒有處理好怎麼樣我講得很對吧可以無地自容可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
19402.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
19403.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
你就是沒有羞恥心啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
19432.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
19442.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
好接下來我們請賴世保賴世保賴世保委員不在羅志強羅志強羅志強委員不在我們請黃秀芳委員進行質詢謝謝主席我們先請法務部副司長好請前前美會副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
19458.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
19483.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
委員好副市長好我想最近這幾個禮拜大家一直在討論有關這個兒少性剝削的事那我想請教就是說我們在很多委員也有提出來就是針對這個持有的部分是不是要加重行者那我想請教就是說在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
19486.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
19515.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
告買如果說是單純購買的話或者是單純持有購買持有那可能這個法定的行者可能就只有一年以下的有期徒刑那我想請教就是說因為這個網路上面他是有客製化的有的是有客製化的服務那就是會員可以付高額的價錢然後用客製化來製作這樣的一個影片那我想請教就是說如果是用這個客製化的 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
19516.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
19527.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
持有這種影片的話那是不是算是這個我們認為說他是不是製造罪的這個幫助犯就是共犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
19529.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
19552.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
像委員報告就是說刑法認定這個共同正犯他有一定的要件就是說他要有翻譯或者是翻譯的共同或者是行為的那他這個製造這個客製化這個應該就是有刻意要犯罪啦這個部分我想可能還是要具體個案按照那個就是案件的那個證據來做判斷那假如我是說假如說那個客觀的證據可以顯示說會涉及 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
19552.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
19565.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
19565.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
19590.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
好,我們希望就是說在這一次有很多委員也有提出來就是針對持有的部分也希望就是說加重其行可是我認為如果說是加重的話其實跟原本的製造或者是拍攝其實這個行程好像又相等差不多這好像又覺得怪怪的那我認為就是說如果是針對這個克制的這個部分我覺得應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
19592.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
19608.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
未來我覺得你們應該也可以去討論一下就是說如果他是用克制要求去製作什麼樣的影片那是這個違反這個兒少性剝削的我覺得應該可以這個加重期刑這個部分就是具體個案具體判斷是 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
19609.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
19636.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
那另外我想請教就是說針對黃子嬌這一件就是說還起訴那我們希望就是說這種事情就是不要再犯那剛剛也有委員特別提到就是說那是不是用這個心理輔導或心理諮商或者是精神治療那剛剛部長我們的薛部長也有提到就是說用那個那個心理治療或心理輔導諮商好像看起來好像也沒什麼用是這樣子嗎部長好那請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
19641.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
19662.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
這的話如果是好奇而去觀賞或購買的話倒是可以來做這一方面的一些心理諮商心理輔導一些認知方面的一些治療但是有一種它是要在在外上一直重複這種行為的 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
19665.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
19694.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
那他這一個已經應該是有所謂的反社會人格違常那在國外的經驗裡面是這樣英國這一方面有去做治療但是他們這經過幾年下來的話重新再去做一個review的話發現說其實效果非常有限美國是早就認為說這種反社會人格違常的話大概沒有治療的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
19694.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
19698.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
對兒少做這個事情通常不是只有拍攝的問題,他會有前面的誘引、接近、到後來拍攝 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
19719.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
19721.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
所以這種人的話他大部分都是屬於這種反社會人格違常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
19736.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
19764.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
所以我們也希望說針對這部分除了剛剛部長講的可能也許他是第一個如果他是出於好奇那當然就是要有一些心理諮商心理輔導甚至精神的治療那如果說是這樣子反社會人格的話那當然就是要加重期刑我們希望就是說這個司法部門針對這部分我們也希望就是說未來這種事情真的要非常真的要 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
19765.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
19791.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
真的要減少啦因為真的現在網路真的非常的發達我知道部長在連續這幾個禮拜就大家都一直在討論這個議題那我再請教部長就是說我們在112年有成立一個性影像處理中心那在去年這個司長也有特別提到在受訪的時候有特別提到就是說從112年到8月15號正式上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
19795.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
19804.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
到10月15日衛福部的性影像處理中心受理性影像申訴案件總共是762件464名被害人陳案數是188件 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
19812.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
19827.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
這是當時市長講的,對嗎?對那成案率是僅有25%那到今天我們看到衛福部的報告內容就是說112年8月15日到113年的3月31日截止 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
19831.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
19855.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
那扣除重複資訊不足、無性影像或者是網址失效等無效案件總共受理案件是767件 對不對?這數字上面我稍微說明一下全部的有關於兒少性剝削的案子大概兩三千件那成案的比例才是25% |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
19858.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
19878.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
這裡面包括現影像跟非現影像的部分,total大概就是這樣子然後現影像的部分的話,一共是762件這兩三千件裡面大概764,目前算是767件那跟去年講的762件跟今年你講的767件,那就只有增加5件 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
19885.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
19893.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
時間點我們現在講的是說有實際下架的這部分那案件數是767但是實際下架是665這個是因為有足夠的資料所以你講的從去年8月15日到今年的3月31日這個767件是成案的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
19912.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
19927.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
你指的是成案的那報案就是說有報案有申訴的總共是幾件?應該算起來是2800...2900那你的成案率是多少?差不多將近30%而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
19928.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
19950.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
三十?好,那部長我想請教就是說你們有完成移除的是665件嘛那你們講的是移除成功率是86.7%那我想請教就是說這個成案就是說你們成案剛剛講的差不多百分之三十左右而已嘛那成案 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
19951.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
19971.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
為什麼會那麼低啊?所謂的成案是所有的兒少性剝削的這些案子他通報進來是通報進來之後的話有一些他是這個我們可以找得到這些現影像是去做這個可以去要求他下架因素的 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
19972.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
19986.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
但是有一些是找不到了比如說他的網址沒有或者是網址已經失效或者是重複的案件另外一個是就是說他還沒有散佈出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
19987.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
20016.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
那部長我想請教就是說司長在去年的時候受訪的時候也有說到因為成案率不高嘛那有幾個原因一個是這個申訴人所提供的性影像無法確定被拍攝的人所以有時候你們會要求申訴人申訴者還要再提供更完整的資料對不對對嗎那這是第一個第二個就是說他的這個IP往往就是設在國外嘛所以你們要下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
20017.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
20019.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
這是第三點。那我想請教竟然有這幾個問題從去年到今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
20043.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
20047.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
我們目前的話大概就是跟這些平台業者那盡量去溝通啦,希望他們可以配合啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
20065.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
20093.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
他不配合你咧?他不配合你怎麼辦?所以我們現在準備要做的就是說如果一旦沒有配合我們就直接封網尤其是在國外的是 那我想請教就是說部長講的就是說把這個網站可能就是移除封網那其實現在還有一個就是用那個VPN也是很容易取得這個網站那我想請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
20093.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
20121.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
今天數位部應該也有到嘛數位部也是副司長請教我們副司長就是說要怎麼樣去協助衛福部如果說衛福部這邊也就是說要移除或者是強制封網可是還是很容易可以取得這個網站可能就是使用這個VPN那未來要怎麼解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
20125.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
20144.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
這個部分的話就是針對這個網站很容易重新再復活的這件事情的話第一個就是我們可能在從機制面的話看是不是我們在配合這個衛福部看在是不是讓更多的ISPA者進來那另外一個在技術面的話那是不是用AI的科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
20146.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
20161.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
是不是用AI的科技來降低我們這個行政執行的這個成本這個我們也可以去配合國科會這邊來研究不過我還是要強調就是內容的這個網站內容的違法事實的認定與否這部分可能還是要主管機關來認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
20162.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
20180.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
當然我們希望就是說我們知道從去年我們就知道有一些問題那我們也希望這個速發布你們既然都已經成立最主要也是因為當然要解決一些問題所以我們希望就是說除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
20180.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
20180.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
20211.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
20222.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
接下來我們請范雲委員進行質詢。謝謝主席。有請部長。有請薛部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
20229.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
20252.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
午安好部長好我想今天主要就是請教您一方面就是說為什麼這次我們沒有辦法及時下架封網還有再來我們修法的方向那先針對就是去年我們修的法因為我想我們去年都參與了這個修法那我自己本身就是說也非常的關心它的成效那我回來看我們所修的法 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
20252.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
20270.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
其實我們修律法都有這個空間讓主管機關不管是先行限制瀏覽或移除而且當時我要求24小時然後你們後來就是說沒有辦法在條文中所以規範在施行細則裡面那當時我們的法條前面是第8條部長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
20271.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
20297.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
後面就是說如果網絡業者沒有及時下架主管機關令其限期改善那如果沒有限期改善就是限制接取了那就是那大家都有談到這個非法論談2021年就曾經被封網2024還在傷害兒少無法接受我想請問部長那我們去年修的法第47條就是給就是說這裡面的主管機關是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
20299.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
20328.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
就是限期改善並如果不改善就是限制接取的主管機關是指誰?第47條NCC跟地方政府好NCC那在這次的這個黃子椒的這個論壇就是NCC嗎?不是黃子椒他那種是網際網路是回到申訴人被害人的所在地的縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
20329.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
20358.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
所以那這個縣市政府是誰去通知他們我們會接受到民眾申訴之後那我們就會通知目的縣主管機關包括縣市政府還有網路平台業者那就是網路平台業者的話那是誰令其限期改善就是主責還是在衛福部嘛那令其罰款的部分是你剛講的在這個案子中是地方主管機關那地方主管機關你們接觸了沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
20359.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
20376.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
然後到底問題出在哪裡他在110年司法做強制動作之後他就換了一個網域後來他只要被害人民眾他有跟我們的影像處理中心申訴那當時這個網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
20378.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
20379.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
因為這要有被害人出來跟我們商討 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
20395.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
20420.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
之前有被害人但是呢在那個網站他都會第一時間就會移除下架對但是他移除下架之後他沒有限期改善他改善了之後又再犯那依照第47條借其為改善者得案次處罰並得令其限制接取我不能理解的事情就是說他就是說你上次叫他下架他下架了一部分之後後來又發生不就是借其為改善嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
20421.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
20428.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
那這個難道就是他有改善就是我們47條是不是給這個空間了請問部長部長您也是念法律的 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
20430.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
20456.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
第一個我不知道當時在解釋這個目的4月主管機關這一條裡面指的是NCC還是衛福部部長您不知道47條主的是誰就表示您不夠在乎這件事吧不是我個人是從這個文字來看的話是比較像是衛福部啦這個這個文字看起來我其實也研究了很久但是後來你們的施行細則直接說他47條就是NCC |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
20460.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
20482.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
電信事業主管機關但是如果是NCC的話就跟那個縣市政府要留不起來那就是如果是個別的網路公司的話就是看那個公司是在哪裡登記那這次這個公司是在哪個地方政府登記因為他沒有在台灣落地所以由申訴人的所在地的縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
20482.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
20498.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
好先是申訴人的所在地喔所以我想你們是不是可以講話直接一點喔但是如果以47條來看的話那我們當時修法的時候就給了你們依照情況嚴重的時候譬如他未改善的話得令其限制接取嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
20499.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
20522.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
所以我還是覺得第一個我後來看了就是說部長對外所講的就是施行細則第7條說什麼通知等等的話我覺得你們其實施行細則訂的並不好反而就是把自己原來的權限架空了你回來看母法我們當時的母法我要求24小時你們沒有用你們要求放在施行細則 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
20523.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
20548.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
你施行細則反而越定越緊到什麼找不到通訊第7條就最後還要依照行政執行法規定及時強制所以我可不可以要求部長你把你們的施行細則當然我們能夠修母法讓他更清楚不要有這個模糊空間的話我也非常的支持可是我認為我們去年修的法就給衛福部跟NC等這個空間那主要發動的還是在你們衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
20549.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
20553.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
你們定的適應性則是不是能夠在兩週內就改善? |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
20555.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
20579.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
在我們修法前施行細則施行細則因為你心是給自己還限制的更緊我知道我知道還有什麼為送達阻止犯罪然後才能夠及時強制那個是要修施行細則施行細則也該修對但是施行細則要修的話我是比較建議是這樣我們母法修了之後施行細則再來修可能不只是這幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
20580.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
20600.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
當然不止這幾個我自己就針對母法要再更強化因為我發現就是說我們修的認為補好了可是你們自己的適應性則又綁了自己的手腳就陷入一個法律的一個迷藏中反而不如我剛剛所講你回去看我們修的母法其實就是要求你在最後的時候就是要就是說強制然後限制接取 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
20601.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
20628.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
當然就是說這次大家對刑罰的部分我認為也是有一些空間在改善我們回來看就是我發的臉書文我認為這就是無辜重製所以司法的體系這一次為什麼沒有用比較重的但我們回來看兒少性剝削防治條件對於這種下載那在法律上可以叫做重製兒少剝削性影像的話的確是沒有放在第38條一年以上七年以下相對比較重的刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
20629.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
20656.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
我認為可以把重製就是這一類的下載它並不是單純的擁有它是一個付費的費源加上它下載另外一個我們的兒少性剝削第47條原本有一個付費就是所謂的支持對價支付對價關攬兒少的性交或違憲的話處一年以下推行可是沒有去罰支付對價關攬兒少性行為的影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
20657.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
20684.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
這個部分沒有規範那這個洞是不是也應該補上這個應該要補好那最後一個我想我就五點訴求我認為我們這一次修法應該讓這個網更密一點沒有一點模糊不處理的空間一個就是對價觀覽只要是兒少性影像還有重置兒少性影像都要入法第二個還是應該加重法則不要讓這個性剝削常態化第三個應該修法再強化雖然我認為這次主管機關本來就可以斷網 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
20685.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
20710.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
但是就是說這個模糊空間不要再有就應該要更強化最後我也主張這一類的特別是兒少性影像要有犯罪資料庫那其實這些網絡的跨國公司都有能力就是說用他的科技能力去找出一旦這個影像又出來被上架的時候可以立刻杜絕重複傳播那部長是不是可以支持我提的這四個修法方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
20711.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
20728.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
這個方向我是可以支持但最後那一個的話可能還要加上讓主管機關能夠有這樣子的權限當然那請部長您是念法律的也下來一起研究相關的法條好不好那你們多久之內可以給我們辦公室一個關於這4點的一個修法的相關的評估報告呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
20729.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
20747.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
我們會盡量因為應該很快在委員會裡面是不是就會有那個條文就我也馬上會提我的版本那我希望你們也那我們會準備好啦因為如果要按照程序從行政院再過來的話可能會很慢好那多久之內可以送到行政院你們的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
20749.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
20750.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
接下來我們請楊耀委員進行質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
20784.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
20794.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
謝謝主席主席我請一下保護司司長國教署副署長我們請保護司司長還有國教署副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
20800.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
20819.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
市長跟副處長好我這邊先來談一下學校的一些性剝削的問題根據衛福部的資料在2023年的上半年高中以下的兒少性剝削案件總共發生了1449件 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
20821.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
20839.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
9城市發生在在學校的在學生裡面那因為現在的大概從國小大家都擁有手機了那學校真的必須要及早建立他們正確的觀念避免發生拍攝或是被拍攝然後轉傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
20842.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
20864.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
影響到學童的問題教育部在報告裡面有提到說你們有設計兒少性剝削防治的教案安排講座那我想要請問一下有沒有監督辦理情形的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
20865.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
20892.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
有那個跟委員報告目前教育部把就是各個學校我們是有規定各個學校每一年他性剝削防治的那個要辦那個活動每一年至少要辦三次那這個部分有列入有列入那個就是社安網的那個關鍵績效指標這個是活動那課程的部分因為你們有沒有安排類似的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
20892.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
20893.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
這四堂課有在 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
20917.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
20928.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
有各校都有在執行嗎?他一定要融入就是各領域的課程或者是在彈性學習時間或者是團體活動時間或是你的校定課程裡面這個比較會留於形式啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
20932.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
20950.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
跟委員報告其實我們在就是我們有督導機制就是我們有建立三級的督導機制我們有中央輔導團地方還有學校層級對於實施這樣的課程我們都會有一些的那個督導也會有一個巡迴輔導的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
20951.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
20968.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
副書長,我不是為難你,我是很想要跟你好好討論就是校園性別教育的問題的重要性。就說光是2023年的上半年就發生了將近1500件的 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
20971.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
20999.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
的案子在學校裡面我們現在就是錯學的沒有列入那我現在這樣子問就是你們能不能想辦法讓這些活動也好課程也好再落實一點再精準一點所以說你剛剛的回覆本席覺得就是你們看樣子是有三郎活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
21000.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
21015.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
每一年,每一年,而且每個學校。每一年三場活動。對,三場活動,還有課程加上課程。課程四堂。每學期四小時。四小時。至少。然後你的四小時並不是磚,並不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
21021.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
21040.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
專門的4小時你是融入其他的你剛剛的答覆是這樣子啊那我再重新說明一次性別平等教育它是重要的議題必須融入就是那個各學期領域這個是融入的部分但是依性別平等教育法國民中學跟國民小學 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
21041.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
21054.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
每學期要有4小時的性別評論教育課程 這個不是融入 這個是法所規定的 性別評論教育法裡頭所規定我問的是 這四堂課是專門開的視覺課還是在其他的課堂結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
21062.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
21062.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
好﹗對 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
21077.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
21099.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
副處長我這樣子直接講我希望你們能夠把它落實的辦理因為其實你到目前為止的回答我是不滿意的那你們回去看應該怎麼進行這一方面的因為家長把 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
21100.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
21101.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
我們會再加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
21116.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
21131.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
我第二個問題大概跟國教署和保護司都有相關所以我就一併問所以我們怎麼強化特殊教育學校跟安置機關裡面的相關人員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
21135.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
21159.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
對於受教者或者是被安置者的性侵跟性剝削這個比較特殊就是因為它其實存在著很大的潛力義務的不對等最近而且受害的人可能更容易噤聲就是不敢張揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
21163.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
21176.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
我們怎麼提升機構內人員的敏感度?內部有沒有監督的機制? |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
21179.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
21195.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
謝謝委員提的就是我們的安置機構裡面的這個我們說的全市的性騷也好性侵也好這樣的議題那第一個我先說明我們這些安置機構的照顧者的確跟孩子生活接觸非常的緊密 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
21195.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
21218.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
因此他們本身的消極條件也就是我們在法律規定這一些擔任兒少安置機構的所有的工作人員他都不得有過去有這些黑歷史我說的黑歷史指的就是他有前科有性騷性侵或者性剝削的這個前科這第一個第二個就是這個是一個前提條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
21220.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
21248.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
沒有黑歷史不代表不會創造黑歷史這第二個部分就是加強專業的訓練第三個就是督導然後我們的督導有包括內部的跟外部的內部就是自己本身機構裡面的專業督導外部的部分就是我們有三年一次的評鑑他都有一些指標那更重要的是我們內部會設立一個兒少的一個申訴的一個管道那這個管道呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
21249.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
21276.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
最近也做了非常多的一些細節的導展我時間的問題我直接問好了你們怎麼訓練讓小孩子勇敢的尋求管道求助我覺得我覺得兒少的性剝削裡面很重要的一環就是我們如何教導教導這些受害者給他有尋求管、求助的管道跟求助的勇氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
21278.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
21300.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
這個就回到剛才教育單位的所謂的身體自主權還有申訴管道那目前全國的申訴管道就是他了解自己有身體自主權是一回事當他遭到侵犯的時候為什麼我直接提出特殊教育跟安置機構就是因為他有權勢的關係在裡面怎麼教育他們跟引導他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
21306.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
21333.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
除了剛才講的這個身體自主權的訓練之外很重要就是那個管道的暢通管道暢通包括學校的老師或者是113全年無休的這個專線電話的服務這些都是目前我們給孩子的一些比較方便的一些方式而且113他打不管室內室外或者用手機他都可以是免費的然後另外網路我們也會接受諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
21335.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
21349.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
一般的性自主的求助就是只要教育跟引導讓受害者知道他自己並沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
21350.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
21365.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
以外像在特殊教育體系底下跟安置機構還必須要我們做到讓他信任他不會因為舉法而受到其他的不公平對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
21368.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
21379.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
這個我希望保護司跟國教署還是必須要很多事情必須要真的很落實特別是國教署剛剛講的你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
21382.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
21407.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
那個跟委員報告對於那個特殊教育學校國教署有委託台南大學而對於這些特殊學校裡頭的教師我們有一個就是比較是學校本位的性平教育培力的入校輔導的這樣的一個計畫那學者教授會進到這個學校因為特殊學校他收的學生其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
21408.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
21425.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
而不太一樣那學者會進入這個學校跟師長們一起討論如何因應學生的個別差異然後實施性別評論教育課程好啊好加油謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝楊耀委員的質詢接下來我們請劉建國委員進行質詢劉建國委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
21443.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
21458.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
好,謝謝主席。有請部長。好,我們有請部長。食藥署沒有來齁?沒有,今天沒有食藥署。好,沒有關係。好,委員好。部長好。兒少性剝削的事情等一下跟你討論啦齁。我還是先討論實案的問題齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
21460.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
21480.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
因為我上禮拜在這地方有特別提到嘛,部長應該都急於遊行。那後來我看到相關的一些報告之後,還有看到台北市議會的市長,蔣市長的答詢。我有點驚訝啦,怎麼會是這樣。因為那一天應該,我不曉得前後的時間是怎麼樣。我記得很清楚嘛,我把那個整個時序都有列出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
21481.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
21501.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
3月14日臺北市衛生局就到這個保齡茶室去採檢那當天沒有查扣任何食材嘛 對不對如果同時依照食藥署訂出的疑似食品中毒事件處理要點這個第4點中也清楚地明白表示說食品中毒事件相關檢體之採集分工原則除此以之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
21502.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
21504.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
他們當天24日當天只採了4個柿子就是除濕的那環境的 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
21521.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
21525.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
怎麼好意思在那個電檔講出說是衛福部不願查扣食材? |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
21545.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
21546.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
他是這麼講的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
21546.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
21547.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
沒有錯嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
21547.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
21562.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
對不對?我認為這一句話是對衛福部來講非常不公平因為那個是26號26號我們的食藥署跟那個CDC還有專家一起過去那我們看了現場之後的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
21564.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
21590.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
對 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
21590.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
21614.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
我就跟部長對這件事情做一個回應嘛齁那其實這麼講啦齁3月26日就扣了這麼多有沒有特別問過衛福部該扣不扣?要不要扣?沒有問嗎?基本上就是衛福部扣回來的如果你若搞你就死死你就把他扣回去嘛是嗎?如果說跟幾個人還要還衛福部還在煮然後最後是衛福部扣回來如果你如果認為應該扣的話你24號就扣走了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
21620.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
21634.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
對啊對啊那就很清楚嘛對這樣一講22就該扣嘛沒有扣嘛到26號才扣嘛對不對好那現在3月28號臟壽司又發生食物中毒臺北市依舊沒有扣任何的食物這個食物你說哪一件3月28號臟壽司臟壽司對不對一樣沒有扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
21638.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
21643.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
所以這一次衛生部就通知全國各地的藏獸師的分店的所在的衛生局就全部通通要去做檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
21662.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
21685.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
對,所以我是要講說之前在上週我就特別提到說台北市去引用舊的這個食品中毒採樣的操作手冊嘛而不是有明確通報流程分工的這個疑似食品中毒的事件處理要點我覺得這一個很關鍵也很致命啊然後甚至於這個凱凱案這個之前我在這邊也請教過部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
21686.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
21705.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
民間衛福部都有頒布指甲縣市政府應用居家托育人員照顧家外安置兒童處理原則當時那用最高的標準來規範這些進行家外安置的兒童的保母人員那當時部長是回我說臺北市覺得他們的資源足夠所以不用這個處理的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
21707.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
21734.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
那你給我回答嗎?那時候他們是真的這樣所以本身他們這種需要家外安置的他們認為說他們的那個寄養家庭的家數是夠的所以沒有特別要去指定說這種所謂的保母來做這件事情對啊你看這個後續就發生這個案子發生凱凱案他們資源足夠不需要遵照中央頒布的要點那上面他又引用錯誤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
21736.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
21742.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
去用舊的手冊不用新頒布的要點分工清楚通報清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
21743.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
21772.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
這部分的話其實我也講過啦我其實是蠻同情我們的那個衛生局的基層同仁去到現場他沒有辦法去分辨什麼是叫做儀式的食品啦食語的話是大家都知道但是儀式食品的話在當場的判斷也許就沒有那麼周延這我曾經也講過說我是認為說不要太過苛責我們的那個基層第一線的工作人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
21773.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
21789.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
我知道,部長已經講過但是齁,你用這樣倒頭,把責任推給中央政府的話,我是覺得,講得這麼難聽,好像太沒有江湖道義了我就是覺得,像你講的這句話,所以我不知道要不要再問一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
21790.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
21808.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
所以這有來現在也要拜託教育啦如果說中央跟地方針對一個頒布的要點執行上還是認知上的遵循落差這麼大其實這種事情會層出不窮啦不只是食安嘛連這個凱凱的事件都還會再發生嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
21808.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
21833.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
對,但是後面我們會盡量來改善啦,就是說讓這不清楚的地方越來越清楚啦。是啦,啊如果,如果,如果,如果教育也可以邀請給國管企業來一個專案報告,將比中央辦部的要點看到底要怎麼,要怎麼樣的認知才有辦法去諸選嘛,這樣才不會有相關的這個或許事情一直在發生嘛。因為台中現在又有一個知名的料理店又發生了食安問題,層出不窮啦,層出不窮。 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
21836.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
21848.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
我要回到今天的主題了,兒少性剝削我想今天很多委員都已經討論過我要在這邊具體要求部長是不是在本月就最好在5月20日之前就把行政院院板提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
21849.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
21878.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
因為大家都加重夥折加重這個提醒其實還有很多面向必須要去做修正討論的啦有沒有辦法委員這樣啦我們不要說院版啦因為院版他就要走一定的程序那大概520之前大概不太可能會進到這邊就是說衛福部有沒有想過什麼樣的一個條文修正的方向你去參考的條文的資料有沒有部長要直接答覆我啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
21879.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
21903.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
對,如果你問的是這樣的我就說我們可以做得到不是啦,你們有沒有,原本就有想法要去針對哪幾個法條去做修正嘛有啦,我們有想法你要回答我有嘛,你不能只有想而已嘛但是現在不能說那個就怨煩啦好啦沒關係啦,就是你有要保管自己的想法要想在幾條來做比較專門性的這樣一個思考然後去預防嚇阻這個事情再發生嘛那如果有就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
21904.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
21909.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
我現在從這件事情去延伸另外的兩個事件我想這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
21911.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
21934.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
那個網紅統神那件事情不然應該有所掌握吧?我知道他的言論等等等啦齁你看齁這個不是一個個案齁他他他其實是一個他的背景我都不需要再介紹了不過他在當下用了很多這個問候人家清楚齁不雅的言論嘛齁除此之外還有涉及到什麼會討論到黑幫啦禁料啦反正就是兒少不宜的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
21935.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
21952.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
這些內容如果放在電視或是電台啦齁那依照廣播電視法21條早就被滑到關台了啦早就嘛齁那我們的台灣好像對對這個這個這個YT啦齁Youtube齁然後還有網路上的這個管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
21953.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
21955.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
太多太多的問題 太多太多的盲點 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
21971.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
21995.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
我想網絡行為延遲要受到言論的自由保護但是如果衛生連還收刊到這些影音的作品政府不應該都不設限嘛 對不對那你看吼這些不適合衛生連收刊的內容言論只要在網絡平台發布全部都變成無法可管甚至今天的衛部、速發部、NCC、主管機關也都在現場我不曉得你們到底到底要把網絡世界當成一個三不管地帶嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
21996.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
22020.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
也不行嘛 也不可能嘛 對不對對啦 這部分的話我們還是會來找各個部會一起來討論一下啦我們在93年的時候新聞局頒布了電腦網路的內容分析處理辦法進入網站的分析制度但101年的時候由NCC繪紙本法轉由這個兒少權力保障法第46條來管理嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
22022.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
22035.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
內容靈電主管機關要辦理事項其中包含就有內容分級制度之推動還有檢討過濾軟體之建立及推動這個網站的分級制度到底誰在處理?怎麼處理?現在處理的什麼狀況?現在兒少網際網路內容的恍惚是由NCC邀請相關部會來委託民間辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
22049.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
22049.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
怎麼刷?怎麼刷? |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
22077.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
22105.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
不是不是就是說不是啊你說嚴格的年齡限制嘛對不對要怎麼去確認他是不對這個年齡不適合去看啊他要怎麼刷才可以刷得開然後怎麼去確認他的年齡對就是說比如說那個像國內你知道才打呼我你不知道不要打呼我是境內我大概知道的跟委員報告境內的成人網站他要架設的時候比如說像第四台他也有那個成人頻道對 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
22107.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
22133.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
他就是會有說嘛那像那個一般的網站我現在在找網站你要講第4台是不一樣的他一定要入會要繳費才能收看所以他在繳費的現在網站是這樣嗎一定要入會有一些就是用這種機制如果沒有這些機制怎麼會叫做有一些啊等於另外有一些不會不用嗎因為有一些他不是標榜成人網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
22134.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
22151.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
有一些他不是標榜成人網站所以只要標榜成人網站就必須不是不是不是講清楚只要標榜成人網站他就有一點點限制是不是這樣就是說我們那個如果有人檢舉沒有這樣的機制阿聯運就會出我現在問的這個事情是你在主管嗎?你在夜管嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
22152.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
22168.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
是我們輔導安運機制網際網路內容防護機構的你們輔導的具體成效有讓這些未成年不會去接觸到這些有年齡限制的然後必須要有真正的年齡的驗證身份的確認才有辦法去到那個網站嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
22169.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
22182.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
他是有一個申訴的機制如果缺乏這些機制不叫做申訴機制捏我知道如果沒有做好這件事情沒有啦沒有啦沒有啦你們就是沒有做好啊沒有做好我才問啊有做好幹嘛問有做好就直接給你侮辱啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
22184.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
22210.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
你看嘛,來,你自己看,主席站上來,我比較記得這段要說了這有一部叫做來自深淵烈烈的黃金箱動畫然後因為內容有暴力血腥在國內的知名動畫平台上分級是18加限制級嘛,對不對?陳努力所講的必須登陸會員或符合特定條件才能觀看陳努力所講的沒有錯,來但是在YouTube上一樣作品代理商直接上傳影片警方上 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
22211.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
22227.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
警語本集內容敏感畫面可能引起不適觀看前請衡量自身狀態衛生人建立遊程員親友陪同遲到觀賞要刷什麼卡這個連Youtube的會員都不用登錄就可以直接觀看這個動畫怎麼會這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
22231.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
22240.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
現在是大家家長大家自有心證來確定然後用感覺來分析嗎?這個用警語有道理嗎?在這邊要滿18歲在這邊用警語?什麼叫做有需要?你現在看到這個狀況就發生了怎麼會沒有需要? |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
22266.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
22280.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
委員會來瞭解看看你就不用分級免登錄、錄帳、職能收看也不需要什麼寫叫家長親友什麼成年親友陪同什麼叫成年親友陪同這種親友好像黑道的用詞親友團在說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
22284.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
22311.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
我們會請那個艾文來瞭解這個案例我再用一個例子給你看部長這個在網站上查詢這款叫做什麽十二之天M的遊戲為限制級的遊戲實際到了Google平台下載遊戲時平台是顯示也是12家那下一款遊戲你注意看下一款遊戲在分級平台上有顯示性分類為限制級 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
22314.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
22333.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
但到庫格平台的時候也顯示性暗示但他仍然只有到12家什麼意思?滿12歲就可以看了遊戲軟體是數位部產業署他們在輔導在分級啦對阿跟你不關那樣嘛是不是來阿數位部的人是什麼狀況這個是滿12歲就可以看是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
22341.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
22366.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
你在分級平台上已經有顯示性的內容喔分類為限制級不好意思跟委員報告那這個部分這個網路的你在這個數位娛樂軟體分級查詢文裡面很清楚嘛對不對很清楚然後跑到這邊來他就是滿12歲就是可以看嘛你提供的顯示性分級為限制級 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
22367.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
22385.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
來到這邊就是沒有用嘛還是得到這邊要跟小朋友講說沒關係你媽自己為你聽我看你也不需要就可以玩了也不需要什麼親牛家長陪同是不是這樣現在未成年都已經人人有一台手機了嘛這個手機直接上網就馬上可以玩了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
22387.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
22400.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
你跟我講怎麼管嘛這個遊戲的部分我們回去再瞭解一下就是因為他在不同的平台上的顯示你不能到現在跟我講回去要再瞭解現在就可以瞭解了嘛我現在在問你的政務公司機制在哪裡嘛因為剛剛他講說這是你管的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
22403.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
22417.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
你們怎麼管?管在哪裡?管理機制在哪裡?因為這個是我們產業署,那...產業署有人來嗎?今天的話今天是沒有道歉所以你沒辦法代表產業署去回應了?有問題,所以你必須要帶回去?那你看這樣夠不夠離譜? |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
22419.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
22428.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
這個我們會帶回去研究了解今天我不曉得你有沒有baby的如果有還是說自己的親屬裡面有小朋友就這樣子這邊有分級這邊就變成這樣了這不是很離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
22434.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
22450.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
好,謝謝委員指導,那這個部分我們帶回去研究所以我是講說未成年少年要上網的第一道把關我們就管道破爛不堪這事情就會沒完沒了啦一定會沒有沒了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
22451.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
22474.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
因為主席站上來了,我不想再講下去了,我還是期待部長就法律的層面啦,就各部會的整個整合,還是希望部長絕對有辦法啦,打起來啦,對啦,你打起來啦,對,百百十五人你絕對有辦法,你絕對可以打就對了,好不好?對啊,最後齁,最後我是,我跟召委這個建議一下啦齁,因為剛剛早上 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
22475.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
22481.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
我是剝削案件 因為第一案的時候是有針對有討論過那後來突然有表達是針對那個什麼創意料理啊創意師長對不起啦那個不一定要檢討嘛對不對在這邊有確認嘛我們也尊重突然的這個提案嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
22497.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
22512.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
但是他現在我又聽說什麼123案123段要全部留下來然後聽說你們會不會接受了因為我在現場我也是委員之一也是參與討論之一嘛那我聽到部長是沒有辦法接受嘛因為這邊有寫的123段裡面有寫的818天 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
22517.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
22532.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
818天他們還計算的非常清楚然後寫說什麼是讓無數的患罪影像在818天上架流通馬脈而這818天中胃部的消極不作為使無數女性的頸部裡面讓所有的兒童日夜哭泣 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
22534.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
22558.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
你們要留這三段我是沒有意見喔你們自己去想清楚我是覺得因為土偉是有特別提到就是說好他後來是接受了嘛對不對是針對那個創意私房的一個檢討報告因為部長說針對你個人的這些供請你沒辦法接受嘛要不然就到這個監察院不然就是提告嘛對不對那一二三段是誰去答應說可以這樣討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
22560.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
22575.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
那你也沒有尊重我們在場現場的委員因為我們最後聽到的是突然也接受是所謂針對創意施防的檢討報告嘛啊這個報告你前面要一出一些話我沒有意見啊你沒覺得這一二三段是可以連結的因為當場沒有確認文字就不對了啦對啊啊我是那時候你們想要了解我快賭了嘛還是你們自己要賭啦對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
22586.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
22603.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
我再請主席這個這個類似的看有什麼才是好不好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝劉委員接下來我們請鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌委員不在何欣淳何欣淳何欣淳委員不在李寬澄李寬澄李寬澄委員不在我們請陳盈委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
22631.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
22636.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
好 謝謝主席麻煩請這個薛部長好請薛部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
22642.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
22664.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
部長好,我在這裡覺得非常非常的不好意思因為我還要再講一次就是我在爭取的這個我們推動原住民的這個長者聽力退化的長者購置助聽器這件事情然後非常的不好意思因為我自己算不出來我講第幾次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
22665.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
22692.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
為什麼還要再講一次是因為上個月的時候呢因為沒有什麼進度大家都沒有主動來報告因為這件事情部長已經親自交辦特別交代要主動來跟我們報告但是他們都沒有來那後來呢我實在是等不下去了所以我就主動邀請他們過來之後我才發現為什麼不敢來因為進度是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
22693.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
22696.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
好,那最後我再來追究一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
22722.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
22724.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
我禮拜五有空,禮拜五部長帶他們來好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
22734.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
22754.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
我看一下我的時間好不好我看一下我的時間好啊你就找一天最近的時間部長OK你OK我OK的時間然後就帶著這些一直都不來然後一直都沒進度的這些主管還有你們的部署的會理的同仁一起來看看到底我們應該怎麼幫助他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
22758.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
22778.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
謝謝接下來我要請教的是說我們台灣的這個嬰兒死亡率其實高於這個OECD大部分的國家外其實我們兒少的死亡率在這個OECD國家的排序當中其實也是在後半段的而且甚至快要墊底 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
22779.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
22805.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
台灣跟台灣文化背景相似的日本、韓國相比其實台灣兒少的這個死亡率也是明顯的高於他們那我不曉得部長有沒有留意到這個狀況還是有沒有關心過你知道齁那台灣兒少的死亡率高於大部分的OECD國家那特別台灣的原住民的兒少死亡率也明顯高於台灣全國兒少的死亡率這是我今天要跟部長討論的問題齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
22809.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
22835 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
部長在原住民族的這個健康問題我們應該要分這個各個年齡層的狀況分別進行研究跟分析因為每個年齡層會遇到的問題都不太一樣那改善原住民族健康不平等的問題最終的目標呢就是要縮短我們原住民跟全國國民的平均餘命的差距部長應該會同意我這樣的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
22835.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
22862.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
年齡層我們大致上會區分大概就是嬰兒、兒童、少年、中年、老年原住民的嬰兒死亡率明顯高於全國嬰兒的死亡率的情形其實6年前我在立法院我就已經率先在立法院首度提出這個問題當然後續有很多委員都跟進來關心你們也進行研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
22863.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
22881.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
那今天我要再跟部長再繼續討論就是原住民健康問題當中的這個兒童跟少年也就是1到17歲的這個原住民兒少的部分那這個表呢是我們整理了原住民族人口及健康統計年報的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
22883.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
22906.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
我匯整了最近五年的統計數據那原住民的這個死亡率呢高於全國的不只是嬰兒時期包括兒童及少年時期的死亡率都相當高那除了109年的兒童死亡率以外呢其他都是全國的兩倍甚至三倍部長我不知道你有沒有再更進一步的發現這樣的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
22910.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
22930.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
這部分的話事實上是當算到每10萬人口的死亡率的時候因為這個數字都不是很高啦所以每一個個案一增一減的話對比例會影響是蠻大的但是不管都還是第二我們就是贏人家我們這種數字就是贏人家是的確是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
22935.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
22958.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
因為原住民兒少的死因大致上與全國兒少呈現的情況其實差不多當然很多的死因是非病死或非自然死亡大部分是事故傷害但我有發現原住民兒少的死因有很多它是可避免死因 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
22958.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
22972.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
也就是說如果我們對於這個原住民兒童兒少的這個健康狀況如果多一點關心那多一分照顧那應該就有機會降低兒少死亡率應該我這樣提應該沒有錯啦沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
22976.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
22998.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
如果說我們可以大幅降低原住民兒少的死亡率勢必可以就大幅縮短我們原住民跟全國其他這個國人平均餘命的差距所以部長我覺得就是說我們既然已經通過了這個原住民主健康法有這個健康法的支持之下我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
22998.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
22998.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
好﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
23020.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
23034.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
當然我們會要求國務院不過我覺得是兒少的部分的話更為重要的確委員剛剛提到一個很重要的點小孩子的話可避免的死亡如果我們做到讓他不發生的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
23035.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
23050.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
事實上他對於這個愚民的貢獻會非常的大跟老人家不一樣老人家可能你這個可避免的死亡避免完之後的話他大概多活一年兩年小孩子就幾十年 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
23051.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
23072.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
其實我有去細看這個數據還蠻有趣的就是說在其中有一個死亡原因就是也不是自然死亡也不是意外那個就是自殺這件事情他就開始發生到在邁入這個少年時期的時候他就開始這個原因就多出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
23073.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
23096.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
還有一個原因我覺得也蠻值得注意的就是這個交通事故這件事情在邁入十幾歲之後我不認為完全歸咎於說可能說大家開始騎摩托車倒未必因為我們的勞工年齡層其實是蠻低的十幾歲可能就跟著父母親 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
23097.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
23111.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
去到外地不管就是有很多出眾的工作比較危險的這些基層的工作就開始了所以這個部分我覺得也應該就是要就是大家要去關注的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
23113.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
23131.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
這部分的話像委員提到的交通事故的這部分的話的確啦那過去我們一直有一個刻板印象是認為說那是在山地山地的原住民比較沒有戴安全帽的習慣而且這個路的狀況也不是很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
23132.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
23134.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
對阿其實在看這個數據其實我有發現就是說其實在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
23148.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
23163.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
對,對,對 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
23164.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
23180.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
所以這個部分我希望就是說當然如果有一些已經有在注意的區塊當然我們持續注意那我今天特別提出來因為我們過去沒有把它單獨就是拿出來討論所以這個部分我們就加緊腳步好謝謝好謝謝陳盈委員接下來我們請陳培宇委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
23192.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
23200.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
好謝謝主席我請法務部跟訴發部謝謝好請法務部訴發部代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
23206.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
23228.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
好那最近關於這個黃子佼新聞我就不再多說可是我們看到另外一個現象我來下一頁不好意思這個有一個偷拍的受害人他在這個D卡上說他看了這個新聞之後他才發現他自己是創意私房的受害者之一那不知道這個相關的法文數法部跟法務部有沒有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
23230.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
23258.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
應該是沒有注意到齁好我們來分享一下這個問題是什麼呢他說這個當事人他說他是被偷拍的而且他根本不知道他被偷拍的影像是被上傳到這個創意私訪這個網站他根本也不知道他的個人資料還包含他的個人資料是如何洩露的是被他的朋友告知發現他才發現自己也是受害者可是他去報案的時候警察跟他說這抓不到啦因為IP在海外我們都可以理解這是目前遇到最大的困境可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
23259.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
23282.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
前幾天衛福部才發文請數位發展部禁止連結這個非法的網站可是我們知道科技的日新月異這件事情我們到底還有什麼方法因為只要網站一改網域一改其實封的網站又可以連進去了嘛我想數位發展部應該比誰都還要清楚所以封網這個動作我覺得確實是一個很重要的宣示性的意義可是我們到底後續還有沒有其他的方法可以防堵後續的事情在發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
23286.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
23301.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
跟委員報告那這個以現在這個所謂的封網那或我們在實際上的作為我們其實叫做停止解析是我們目前評估過最有效可以最快速來降降低這個傷害的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
23302.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
23327.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
那所以就數位部後續的這個精進作為來講還是跟委員報告我們可能會從兩個面向來看第一個在制度面機制面的部分的話其實就是我們可以配合這個相關的這個部會以及利害關係人來研究如何在精進這個所謂的好那這個研究跟這個跨部會的討論你們目前有進度打算多久以內召開相關的進度會議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
23330.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
23355.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
還是你們要等到下一次再有類似大的社會案件然後再有別人來告訴你們要做封網才會後續做這個事情但是因為我是外圍時間有限我想後續我們再跟訴發部進行討論那這一次的事件我們其實看到另外一個更大的困境其實很多的孩子很多的兒少他們並不知道後續會發生這樣的事情不管是偷拍或是透過威脅利誘或是其他的方法讓他們是被動或是主動的提供這些不雅的影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
23356.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
23377.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
我要說其實在很多第一線現場我們看到這個個案它不會只是個案其實有非常非常多案件在台灣各地在發生其實甚至是全世界喔所以我想要知道目前我當然知道教育部有積極在進行平等教育、家庭教育還有很多政策的宣導可是我們到底有沒有更積極的作為關於數法部或者是法務部這邊我們的想像喔所以我這邊想要積極的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
23378.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
23397.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
你們在三個月內提供針對架設於海外的違法網站還有海外行為人進行處置規劃的報告也就是說剛剛那個警察說的IP在海外啊或是收錢網站在海外到底我們台灣的行政機關可以更積極地做些什麼而不是只是說他在海外我們就好像什麼事都不能做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
23397.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
23419.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
再來有沒有機會在3個月內提供針對現行的教育還有衛生部門請找他們跨部會討論關於防範兒少如何遭受威脅利誘或提供不雅影像的政策規劃報告也就是說我們要更積極的協助兒少而不是把過去認為數位素養這課程都丟給教育部就沒事了這個部分我其實希望數法部跟法務部可以更積極的承擔相關的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
23422.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
23429.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
謝謝委員指導我,那我們配合辦理好,那我們辦公室也會持續追蹤,好嗎?好,謝謝那兩位請回,謝謝那接下來有請薛部長,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
23436.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
23461.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
午安好部長午安我們來看一下我想這個事件我先跟部長分享一個研究報這個國家人權委員會他們在這次事件之後他們快速寫了一個新聞稿告訴大家雖然在2023年已經修正兒少性剝削防治條例也強化兒少性剝削的防治作為也就是說其實我們並不是沒有修法的可是困境是數位科技發展迅速導致於性剝削樣態多元而且複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
23463.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
23484.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
那除了相關的法制可以更周延相關的配套可以更周延之外我們有沒有機會一起努力倡議提升社會大眾對於防治兒童色情問題還有網路性剝削的認知還有數位的素養落實CRC第34條的精神讓所有兒童免於一切形式的性剝削不知道這一段話部長你有沒有印象 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
23486.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
23510.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
這倡議的話是沒有問題的是好我們都相信是沒有問題那我們來看一下現場到底發生了什麼問題一個比較具體的建議我想先跟部長分享一下基本上在偵查數位性犯罪的時候其實警政司法發動相關調查對不對可是他們對於數位的專業知能跟訓練這個部分有沒有機會先由衛福部來主動發起跨部會增進相關單位的數位專業知能 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
23512.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
23526.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
讓他們在面對類似個案或是類似新聞事件的時候他們可以有立刻的作為不管是防止擴散或者是防止造成更大的傷害衛福部有沒有機會作為兒少性剝削防制條例的主管機關積極的跟警政跟司法單位的聯繫合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
23528.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
23543.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
這個聯繫合作是沒有問題而且一般來講如果說他是一個兒少性剝削的犯罪行為的話那基本上去做初步的判斷是衛福部是可以來做的現在問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
23545.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
23550.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
那接下來講最後一個就是關於金流的部分大家現在看到是影像的儲存或者是購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
23562.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
23578.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
可是後續的金流其實也是很大的問題我相信部長你一定清楚我就不再贅述可是後續的這些不尋常的金流交易其實需要及時的阻斷而為了根絕這些數位性犯罪者的金源衛福部、數發部跟金融管會有沒有機會在一個月內做通盤性的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
23581.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
23596.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
一個月內來做討論是沒有問題但是要找出真正的解決可能沒有辦法那麼快好沒關係但至少我們先進行討論尤其是晶圓的部分好嗎好謝謝部長那接下來想要看一下其實後續除了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
23597.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
23612.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
黃先生的影片後來引發很多網紅在網路上的討論但是我想跟部長分享一下關於網紅我們怎麼看一個大明星納塔利波曼他自己都說如果你問我的小孩或是問現在十幾歲的年輕人關於電影明星他們根本不認識因為他們只認識 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
23614.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
23624.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
網路上的YouTuber或是網路上的KOL意見領袖我相信部長你應該有感覺衛福部在做很多相關政策宣導的時候現在也都會意識到要找KOL對嗎要找網紅也就是他確實是一個主要的新聞媒體方向之一好 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
23630.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
23654.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
可是呢如果這些人他帶有流量他甚至可以流量變現金他難道不需要為他說這件事情負責任嗎這一次我們看到了這個統先生還有相關的事情已經發生了我們忽略他的個案我們來看其實他的所有言論端對於數位人權的侵犯其實非常非常嚴重但是臺灣的很多民眾對於數位人權侵犯這一塊是非常陌生跟不熟悉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
23654.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
23679.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
所以有沒有機會我們要拜託教育部、數位發展部還有通傳會跟衛福部一起來面對這個很可怕的問題就是我剛剛說的面對爭議的言論必須要加強媒體素養可是因為這一次的個案是落在兒少事件所以衛福部當然在後續的很多事情當中當然也必然會有角色所以有沒有機會在我們看到教育部是不是請可以回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
23680.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
23696.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
教育部你們在今天的報告裡面也說你們會跨部會教育宣導資源推動數位網路性別暴力防治專案諮詢會議你們預計每4個月要開一次可不可以以後調到3個月然後甚至你們要協同衛福部、數法部、通傳會根據相關兒少色情問題的媒體素養教育擴大推動召開相關的演商會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
23702.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
23722.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
這個部分因為是跨部會我們再跟其他部會再協調一下好那這個部分我們也會再追蹤主席對不起再給我30秒就好好那很多位我們剛剛談到自媒體我要跟部長跟幾位相關不同的部會分享其實自媒體他們也有社會責任以前通傳會可能認為他們只要管電視媒體就好但是網路媒體我們看到丹麥他們已經在倡議立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
23724.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
23749.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
要把追蹤者達到一定人數的網紅視為新聞媒體他們必須遵守相關報導倫理跟原則包含他們有事實查核的義務而在美國也開始提出歐盟執委會也開始提出針對網紅的生態要成消費者權益這裡保護往下做所以我要再次提醒不管是任何部會只要相關跟這個網路媒體有關係我覺得大家不應該再只認為是有數發布或是通傳會的責任甚至我們台灣有沒有計較 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
23750.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
23754.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
好謝謝謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝陳佩玉委員接下來我們請牛許廷委員進行質詢好謝謝主席這個部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
23779.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
23779.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
邀請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
23783.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
23809.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
委員好部長辛苦了這個本席今天想一樣針對封網的事件做一下這個事件的這個釐清這個偷拍論壇的創意私房這提供了非常這是一個非常糟糕的一個形態就是說要求這個會員要提供原創性的犯罪影片去交換積分去提升越南權限簡直是令人髮指他絕對不是單純一個社群網站可以解釋的事情而是性犯罪產業鏈的一環你同意這樣說法嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
23810.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
23826.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
同意了對不對但我就要問啦這一次的這個創意私房其實早在3月13號就有這個北投的這個黃池會館的偷拍事件請問這算不算性犯罪的一種樣態偷拍的話其實是在算是 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
23827.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
23855.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
應該算嘛當然算嘛對不對因為法律上就是要從嚴才能夠保障大家的這個這個這個標準嘛但是我就我就問一下齁你們後來因為發生了這樣子的這個黃子嬌的事件嘛所以後來還做了這個封網的這個決定齁就做停止解析網域名稱喔那就本期的了解你從行政處分的角度來說基本上是行政機關收到性犯罪事證通報你們衛福部嘛你們衛福部做審查嘛然後審查之後再來決定說要不要要不要封網 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
23856.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
23870.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
然後後來是由訴發部來執行對不對?是好那我就問了那為什麼齁這個黃子嬌案的時候你封網那為什麼黃池案的時候你沒有是沒有人通報你們嗎?還是說你們沒有處理?還是說訴發部不配合?原因出在哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
23871.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
23888.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
黃池岸我們沒有收到那個申訴沒有收到申訴啊就本席的了解哪怕是最近封網你們收到誰的申訴哪一個機關通報的這申訴是到那個我們那個叫什麼影像處理中心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].start |
23889.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].end |
23902.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].text |
我現在很擔心就是說你這個標準如果不一致的話會不會讓人家覺得說你是看新聞在辦案這件事情燒很大再不處理就炸鍋了所以我就趕快來封網不能這樣子嘛既然機制存在他應該有一個常態性運作的一個模式嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].start |
23904.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].end |
23924.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].text |
剛剛這個土匯土圈紀委員也講了臨時提案其實不就是希望他這個機制正常運作嗎 對不對所以說這樣子的一個狀況衛福部有沒有什麼改進的措施啊我們怎麼樣加快橫向聯繫啊因為就本席的了解好像這次案件法務部也是沒有發文嘛顯然大家好像不知道有這個蜂網的機制沒有在運作一樣那不是蠻糟糕的一件事嗎因為原來齁這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].start |
23925.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].end |
23927.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].text |
其實從申訴然後你從行政處分的是遠遠比法律快的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[871].start |
23947.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].end |
23966.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].text |
我們現在就要問為什麼前面這個機制都沒有運作?從黃池岸到這好像沒有講沒有上新聞就不處理一樣所以剛剛跟委員解釋過了黃池岸的話我們沒有收到申訴沒有收到申訴所以我們那個案子前面就沒有去處理我現在要求就是說政府應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].start |
23967.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].end |
23970.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].text |
所以我們才說如果這一次要修法的話我們希望就是授權衛福部能夠去做主動的去刑罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].start |
23983.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].end |
24011.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].text |
主任警察把事情認起來好第二個就是說以你這個衛福部保護室的網站統計啊其實啊雖然說這個創意私房是一個論壇性質的但以大宗數據來講啊其實網路論壇跟部落格按照這種性剝削案件的角度來講它其實是相對是少數的對不對真正的大宗在哪裡在社群網站在通訊軟體那請問這件事情衛福部接下來打算怎麼處理那個在LINE裡面傳來傳去的對不對有些小朋友不懂事亂拍影片的等等這些都是嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].start |
24011.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].end |
24030.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].text |
所以本來這類的事情就是有分兩大類嘛一類的話就單獨的一個影像或者是說一個一個影片嘛在那邊傳來傳去嘛那這是個別的個別的話我們就需要有人來申訴然後我們再去做比對的確是的話那就走那一個剛剛講的我講的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].start |
24032.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].end |
24053.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].text |
你現在從網路論壇或博客你有停止解析的方式可是針對社群網站跟通訊網站你手伸得進去嗎?你有辦法處理這個事嗎?所以就變成要有檢舉之後的話我們去做比對的確是的話要求它下架因為我們不可能把它整個封掉嘛比如說LINE把它封掉這個大概做不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].start |
24055.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].end |
24069.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].text |
這個我們一樣啦是希望你有個但是網站的部分的話我們就希望就是說我們能夠去巡航啊如果發現他是一個兒少的社群網站的時候我們就直接把他封了啦所以當然我們都希望網路有言論自由啦但是牽涉到性剝削這種事情我們絕對是零容忍啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].start |
24071.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].end |
24096.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].text |
所以說不管是他是用社群網站用通訊軟體或者是網路論壇各式各樣的形態來講衛福部都需要針對這件事情做一個通盤檢討理應要出去一個報告然後有未來的經濟措施然後加強你政府內部的跨部聯繫因為本期之前有了解要處理這件事情到底是衛福部處理呢還是數發部處理反而讓事情慢下來這是不對的好不好我希望這趕快有人把這事情認下來然後積極的來運作可以嗎好謝謝辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].start |
24097.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].end |
24124.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].text |
好,我們謝謝牛許廷委員接下來我們請黃國昌、黃國昌、黃國昌委員不在陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員不在本日會議詢答全部結束委員陳冠廷、羅志強、牛許廷、何新淳所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報那因為還有一個臨時提案要確認文字嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].start |
24124.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].end |
24136.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].text |
那那個徒委員現在也來到現場那是不是針對最後的這個修正的文字的部分是不是要衛福部要說明一下你們同意的文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].start |
24145.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].end |
24168.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].text |
謝謝昭緯也想跟土委員做一個溝通我們今天早上談的就是說希望針對創意私房這個提供一個檢討報告那這個部分沒有問題所以我們是不是可以針對臨時提案案由的部分有一共四段我們就寫到即先行限制瀏覽或移除犯罪有關之網 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].start |
24169.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].end |
24169.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].text |
提供檢討報告以回應台灣社會的質疑與不滿。 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].start |
24193.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].end |
24215.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].text |
你們的版本有給圖委員嗎?是,就是委員有三段然後前面的第一段暗油的部分就直接從前面都可以最後一句話就把它刪除然後直接跳到最後一段原請衛福部在一週內針對創意私房案提出檢討報告這樣可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[883].start |
24229.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].end |
24252.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].text |
因為中間那兩段就是說這個前面在110年司法偵查部分有這個檢察官有移除下架有這個封網這一段基本上那個是一個刑事司法作為那不應該把那個刑事司法作為他一個月後讓他停止暫停了停止解析等於說他後來又復活 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].start |
24255.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].end |
24276.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].text |
那這個部分因為它跟我們的行政作為是兩件事而且當時呢我們也並不知道民眾也沒有來檢舉所以我們並不知道我們要進行而且在那個時候的法律並還沒有兒少性剝削防治條例的封網這件事所以我們認為那個818要冠在這個案子上面我們是覺得這個有點與事實偏離啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].start |
24279.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].end |
24307.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].text |
我覺得這個事情都是陳素所發生過的事情那如果你們覺得這有問題你在檢討報告你可以去說明啊但是我們覺得放在這裡的確是有非常多的這個不當的一些文字所以我們是不是可以針對把重點放在一週內對創新私房案提出一個檢討報告是不是這樣比較更聚焦在這個檢討報告上 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].start |
24308.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].end |
24337.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].text |
可是我們今天就是一直質疑說為什麼不在2022年的時候檢察官起訴的時候就可以以第8條來處理為什麼要等到4月10號而且一審過後過了22天我們網民委員催促以後才去處理這個事情跟委員說明在當時沒有第8條也就是當時還沒有性影像移除封網的這個機制那個是在去年才有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].start |
24338.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].end |
24368.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].text |
所以就是說在還沒有還沒有這個機制之前那要我們現在去認那時候的作為那我們會覺得很委屈啊不是他沒有沒有用封網的方式他也可以用停止傳輸的方式這個網際網路業者就有辦法去達到啊沒錯但是但是在第8條我們的兒少性剝削的封網或停止傳輸都是在去年修法通過的以前是沒有這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].start |
24369.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].end |
24374.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].text |
在2022年的時候沒有?是是沒有防治第8條是嗎?對對那你可以在檢討報告的時候提出說明啊可以我們可以提出說明但是我們希望在今天的臨時提案的第二大段跟第三大段是不是就可以不要寫在上頭因為寫在上頭好像就是承認說的確那個時候就有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].start |
24397.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].end |
24425.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].text |
所以你說兒童少年性剝削防治條例第8條在2022年是沒有這個條例是嗎有那一條但是沒有寫限制接取的這個相關的這個這個措施就是停止解析限制接取移除下架這些內容都不在當時的法律條文裡頭但是它相關條例應該有說如果有犯罪嫌疑情勢的時候應該可以做處理只是處理的方式不同吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].start |
24426.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].end |
24438.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].text |
那時候是90天那個是他要保存就平台業者他要保存90天公檢警去做偵查之用但是也是平台業者自己要保存90天 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].start |
24445.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].end |
24464.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].text |
所以你確定當時是沒有這個條例是嗎?對,當時沒有這個移除下降這一段沒有禁止,沒有方式去禁止只是不同的方法吧應該是說檢警那一段是沒有問題但是以行政處分這一塊是在去年的這個法律通過才有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].start |
24466.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].end |
24483.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].text |
所以你說2022年的時候是沒有條例去處理這些事情去斷送像他有些傳輸的速度像中華電信或台哥大他可以禁止去傳輸讓他沒有辦法去傳送啊對那個是檢警他可以申請法院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].start |
24484.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].end |
24499.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].text |
這個我們說的這個強制執行這一塊但是對行政處分對衛福部只能做的行政處分那一塊是在去年修法的時候這個去年的修法之後才有的這個限制擷取 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].start |
24500.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].end |
24525.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].text |
不是我的意思是說他有別的方式只是不同方式但是並沒有說2022年那個時候第8條也有別的方式只是不是用這種邊調去屏障的方式嘛他有他以前是用傳輸你中華電信台客大我們如果衛福部去行文還是可以請他請他禁止去傳輸的啊因為這已經有犯罪事實而且檢察官已經起訴啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].start |
24529.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].end |
24547.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].text |
檢察官起訴那個作為就是他已經確實達到了那個他的封網的那個效果的確他已經做到但是他後面之後又再這個再一個網域這一段我們並不知道而且檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].start |
24549.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].end |
24565.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].text |
後續的偵查作為也就在持續中那你把這個檢察官分掉之後的到後來我們封網這個818天全部算在衛福部不作為的這樣的一個做法上面我們是覺得這個與事實有背離啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].start |
24570.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].end |
24598.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].text |
我覺得不然就文字修飾你可以去說明這800多天那當初的條例我相信像中華電信、台科大他一定有我們一定有可以讓他不去傳輸當你這個檢察官起訴他已經是上這個網站一看就是要全部都是犯罪的一些影片那檢察官會起訴絕對就可以請我們這個業者讓他去禁止傳輸這個犯罪的影片吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].start |
24616.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].end |
24625.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].text |
這樣好了,我們是不是先休息五分鐘好不好,讓那個就是針對文字的部分請委員跟那個衛福部再溝通一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].start |
24627.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].end |
24628.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].text |
我們先休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].start |
24643.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].end |
24643.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].start |
24662.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].end |
24683.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].text |
他們都不知道這是解釋?對,他是解釋。我想請他去另外一會讓我們可以講回來。人民就是在給我站牢。因為,因為,因為那個,對,因為這是我們的組織。對,抱歉。然後剛剛還有委員說他要跟趙導演講。對,對,對,剛剛這樣不太好,就是要趙導演講。就是要請他去面會,他要跟趙導演講。去年的,去年的演講。 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].start |
24691.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].end |
24693.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].text |
可以嗎?這是委員全面授權百分之百授權的有什麼問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[903].start |
24708.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].end |
24719.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].text |
有什麼問題?有什麼問題?還好還好不要補充你們的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].start |
25005.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].end |
25010.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].text |
好,那我們這個剛剛有溝通協調,我們請土委員來好,謝謝主席喔那我們今天的重點就我希望就是放在當然我們衛福部如果對這個事情覺得有怎麼樣我覺得在檢討報告也可以提出因為我們今天重點我質疑就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].start |
25030.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].end |
25043.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].text |
今天在4月10日的時候我們用新剝削防治條例第8條去處理那我的意思是說為什麼當初在2022年的時候不用這個第8條處理要讓這個事情多 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].start |
25046.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].end |
25063.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].text |
多拖了818天那我們就針對重點就是說我質疑我希望這檢討報告是不是可以說明就像剛剛講的那如果說你說當初沒有這個條例你也可以在這檢討報告說明那我們針對這一部分我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].start |
25064.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].end |
25085.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].text |
不必用太情緒的字眼那我就是希望說針對我們提出當初為什麼不從檢察官提告的時候再到4月10號這一段期間衛福部當初為什麼不去做那你如果你有其他的地方說明那我覺得就說明就好那其他像 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].start |
25087.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].end |
25116.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].text |
消極不作為等等的字眼我們可以拿掉沒有關係但是我是希望這個檢討報告能夠讓我們了解這為什麼當初檢察官起訴的時候我們不用這個條例要到4月10號才用這個條例如果當初用的話是不是在800多天前我們這個案子就可以去處理掉不是讓他在這800多天還讓這些影片去散播去上傳那我覺得我希望針對這一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].start |
25117.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].end |
25135.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].text |
我們衛福部能夠提出一個比較明確的檢討報告那如果覺得太情緒的字眼我們可以拿掉但是我希望這個臨時提案在報告裡面針對當初這一段期間為什麼不去用我覺得那你衛福部可以說明啊這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].start |
25139.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].end |
25153.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].text |
就是提出說明不然你檢討報告你沒有方向啊那我總要重點我要了解說這800多天當初為什麼不第一時間去做處理那如果衛福部覺得這部分有委屈我覺得你也可以說明啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].start |
25158.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].end |
25175.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].text |
對啊你就檢討嘛那我要了解說為什麼第一時間不去用要等到4月10號一審宣判後來還是委員在委員會催促以後才去做執行那這段期間沒關係如果衛福部有委屈我覺得衛福部也可以說明啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].start |
25176.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].end |
25198.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].text |
好,那是不是文字可以調整一下?謝謝,謝謝委員的這個理解那基本上就是兩點啦這個情緒性的文字然後有這個過度要求的文字我們做一些刪除那的確報告裡頭我們會寫其實兩大原因一個就當時的法並不是這樣那你可以提出嘛第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].start |
25199.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].end |
25216.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].text |
在司法調查司法偵查的案件基於司法偵查不公開行政機關是不會知道的即便是現在也沒有所以如果將來要做這樣的可能在法治上面要另外做一些處理那我想我們就第一項的部分吧最後最後一段這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].start |
25218.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].end |
25238.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].text |
的文字是不是可以建議刪除然後第二段的部分中間有實在荒謬至極這個文字就也做一些修正就刪除第三段就是第一句話在衛福部消極不作為的八一八天禮這一段文字是不是也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].start |
25239.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].end |
25242.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].text |
做一些刪除然後在這個中間第三行這個在818天中直接中間有衛福部消極不作為的這幾個文字建議刪除然後最後倒數三行這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].start |
25258.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].end |
25285.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].text |
因為衛福部的消極不作為如何如何然後有實在有不可推卸之責這三段這三大段這個三行的文字是不是也可以建議刪除以上好可以嗎如果原則上可以請他們再調整一下就確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].start |
25287.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].end |
25314.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].text |
對啊就調整因為我們重點的方向我針對我們執意的部分我們檢討報告要做不然我怎麼知道你檢討報告方向放在哪裡我們重點要了解為什麼當初第一時間不去做處理而且這個條例更正到現在也有那麼多天啊那你說去年那去年更正去年也可以做啊那為什麼這些東西不去做你總要給我們一個完整的說明嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].start |
25315.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].end |
25338.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].text |
那你說去年才通過那去年通過去年也可以處理啊那你可以說明嘛你檢討報告說明嘛那我的意思說重點就我要把這個放在這個方向去說明那如果說你衛福部覺得這部分你們有委屈不是你們處理那你可以在檢討報告你也可以講清楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].start |
25342.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].end |
25368.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].text |
好那謝謝圖委員那我們是不是已經有人去把剛剛衛福部修正的文字有去印了嗎在印了在印了好好那我們就等等一下那個剛剛衛福部修正過後的文字就是印出來那給圖委員再看一下如果沒有問題我們就修正通過好大家先休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].start |
25384.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].end |
25394.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].text |
好,來了這個剛剛衛福部保護司張師長修正的這個文字齁,來了大家再看一下齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].start |
25403.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].end |
25416.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].text |
好,那就麻煩大家看一下剛剛這個保護絲所刪除的這個文字然後請圖委員再確認一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].start |
25431.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].end |
25455.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].text |
可以齁?好,那前兩位有沒有意見?衛福有沒有意見?沒有意見?好,那我們就修正通過。謝謝主委員。好,那現在做以下決定齁。一 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].start |
25456.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].end |
25473.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].text |
報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定本次會議到此結束現在休息星期三上午九時繼續開會謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].start |
25481.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].end |
25500.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].text |
議員會議員會議 |