| video_url |
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| 委員名稱 |
蘇巧慧 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:01:25 - 17:21:29 |
| 影片長度 |
1204 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-06T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
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好 謝謝主席 我們請伊萬納威委員我們請備題名人答詢委員好伊萬納威委員您好請問我有正確稱呼您的名字嗎非常好 謝謝委員謝謝 我想能正確稱呼您的名字是一種基本的尊重好 那委員我也想跟您請教因為您其實現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
37.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
63.268 |
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是現任的考試委員也就是您已經擔任過一屆現在這一屆的提名其實是一個續任所以我想您應該很清楚今天在這裡接受我們大家的質詢詢問的時候會面對哪些問題我想您應該非常清楚吧現在考試委員在您擔任過四年之後您認為考試委員最大的職權核心是什麼考試委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
64.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
83.379 |
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當然這個除了保障我們的公務人員所有的大概跟公務人員有關的制度大概都是在我們考試委員另外一個應該就是選拔合適的公務人員到政府體制吧而您作為其實真的就是所有考試委員當中唯一的一個原住民委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
113.365 |
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所以原住民是否能夠適當的進入到國家行政體系當中我想這是你責無旁貸的任務大家今天也都會就教你這個部分那委員您剛剛也提到了其實你上一屆和這一屆你的自我描述你的履歷、自傳當中提到的幾乎是一樣的問題第一個就是原住民特考原住民的人數其實是不足的 |
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114.105 |
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132.711 |
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是這是第一點第二點你提到的是文化敏感度我覺得就第一點第一點這個原住民特考人數不足參與的人數不足錄取的人數也不足所以代表性不足這一點先跟你就講你認為代表性不足到底是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
133.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
148.184 |
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這個部署是相對於我們全國公務人員的那個比例如果你這個回答我完全同意因為我給你看一個表我自己做的完全跟你的意見是一致的也就是呢 |
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148.824 |
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168.638 |
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現在你看從2018到2023原住民族公務人員占全國的比例其實是從你當年上任1.87到現在幾年過去了反而是下降的現在只占了1.84反而是下降可是你說原住民人口占全國人口數的比例也一樣是下降嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
169.338 |
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170.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因為效果沒什麼差別我們就不用解決這個問題啦所以有什麼問題嗎這個情況就是說我們是希望我們有更充分的人力是在公部門跟這個國家制度一起運作但是因為我們現在人少對所以就是說我們參與國家運作這件事情我們就變得比較沒有力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
223.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
對所以我們希望是可以再擴大那我所知道的現在我們雖然並沒有規定是說公部門一定要禁用多少原住民公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
只有在非公務人員方面有五類的一些技工還有等等這些可以在他有一個規定禁用比例但是我們公務人員是沒有的所以我們每年的提缺的機關其實是很有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我想打斷你的這個回答因為我想聽到您的答案其實是一個簡短的很簡單的答案也是我這幾年的感受我想委員您應該非常清楚我嫁給了一個阿美族所以我現在的家庭是一半是漢人的觀念一半是阿美族群的觀念我也在立法院的質詢過程當中質詢過多次所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
290.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
公務機關缺乏原住民視角的問題會是什麼很簡單就像我當年去報戶口的時候我要用傳統姓名幫我的孩子報戶口藍未不足這個問題到現在這麼多年終於解決了但當時還發生另外一個問題是當藍未不足的時候他填上去的是寫什麼他填上去寫建計是藍 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
309.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以後來我收到衛生所要通知我去注射疫苗孩子的疫苗注射單的時候我是什麼人我是健記事欄媽媽欸為什麼因為他Excel表格一抽出來他只抽姓名欄出來啊他沒有因為我是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
327.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
原住民族或者是我是其他的他有任何注意到的管道或方式他就Excel直接抽出來列成名條貼成通知單寄到我的手中所以我不是任何人的媽媽我叫做建記式懶媽媽那這個問題是什麼當我去反應的時候公務員員絲毫沒有覺得愧疚或不便他頂多跟你說啊抱歉你聽到那個抱歉你知道他沒有任何的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
354.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
379.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
感受誠意跟你一樣的難過在裡面嘛所以我們在說的為什麼公務機關裡面要有原住民的族人在裡面有一定比例甚至為什麼第二點我們需要有文化敏感度其實都是因為這個國家是原住民的族人共同在這裡生存的生活的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
402.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以我們要有我們的視角和觀點在裡面我們也希望代表國家執行業務的公務人員具有原住民的視角增加原住民族人在公務機關的比例和使非原住民族人具有文化敏感度這是同樣的道理啊不是嗎是所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
403.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
425.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
文化敏感度增加原住民代表是同一件事情好那如果是這樣的話是為了讓我們的族群主流化可以更被實踐更被看見那我就想問委員請問您四年前就看到了這個問題四年來您做了哪些努力哪些有成效可不可以和我們分享一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
426.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
451.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是謝謝委員因為這個文化敏感度其實是在我四年前同樣在這個地方是啊你有提過嗎我看到你的自傳坦白講一模一樣四年就是說這四年當中特別在考慮到一些制度的一些改變的時候我會特別提醒全序部包括在訓練方面我也是會提醒保訓會說 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
453.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
472.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們的課程在哪裡那哪一些是具體的我其實沒有在任何的資料看到您的具體的文化敏感度的部分但我們先講原住民特考的這個部分好了原住民特考剛剛說人數下降我也聽到您在回答前一位委員的時候你說你成立了一個小組叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
474.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
原住民考試工作小組對 謝謝委員提到了這樣子的一個結合了考試院、教育部和園民會的單位可是我剛剛應該沒有聽錯您是說上個月才提 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
上個月才建立了這個小組是嗎沒有是我剛上任就是上一屆的大概第二年第二年那個時候有跟所以已經工作了兩年了是是好那我在這裡我就想聽您回答也請你再被巡台正式的回答這兩年你做了哪一些努力所以有哪一些成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
512.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
528.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
跟委員報告就是說這個工作小組我們解決一個原住民考科的問題我看到檢科對檢科以外我們還有再精檢就是要符合原住民的核心職能的科目例如 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
555.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
多出來的我們就抽掉了就很多科目了比如說原住民歷史與文化這個歷史與文化到底是要考歷史還是文化之類的而且每個組別都不一樣啊到底要考哪一科哪一組會調整是這樣的一個精進的一個做法另外就是我們也注意到原住民的普通科目成績比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
556.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
585.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
但是他的專業科目比較不理想所以我就認為是有沒有機會去把這個部分做微調所以調整了什麼調整了就是把那個普通科目稍微調高一點專業科目我們稍微調低一點然後呢把那個共同科目普通科目裡面把原住民行政與法規那一科獨列出來讓他比較容易就是說先他 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
586.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
611.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
任職以前他就對原住民組行政與法規就有一個基本的認識透過考試去強化所以今年就開始實施了今年實施以後可能委員還沒看到相關的報告我們都沒有看到報告所以我們不知道成效是什麼那個成效是我們今年的原住民特考的那個錄取人數提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
611.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
632.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
今年有提高嗎從前年開始我們有13%的錄取率然後前年也是13%今年我們因為有這樣的一個變革以後呢我們的人數錄取人數到了15%這個部分就是說我們好像看到這樣的一個調整有看到一點點效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
634.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
658.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
委員我跟您討論這個的原因是還包括了我們看到我們的統計在原住民特考的需用人數和錄取人數的這個表單上面可以很清楚的看到其實從2020到2024年其實這個缺口是一直在擴大當中所以如果你說現在的這個是米評有提高的話那這是哪一年的這個報告因為我們現在手上的是2024年的這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
660.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
670.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以是全部嗎?你指的是全部考科嗎?委員這邊表格看到那個錄取人數118 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
674.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
697.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
對118是錄取人數我是說他的比例就是說所以你是用比例來看用比例是15%那表示進步的空間還非常的大看起來這樣是有一幅進步但是空間還非常的大因為我在跟你討論另外一個是其實您剛剛說雖然有錄取人數增加可是我們也看到另外一個現象是特定科目是缺人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
698.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
720.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
特定科目確認我現在讓你看這個表單其實很清楚的可以看見你在行政部分也就是可能符合你剛剛說的普通科目原住民族考得比較好原住民的族人考得比較好但特定科目專業科目考得比較沒那麼理想好那你再看如果是專業科目的話其實從財稅行政、土木工程、農業技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
722.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
750.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個入取需用人數、入取人數其實都差距太遠了而且是所有項目裡面幾乎是不及格、不達標的狀況好 那我們就想問兩個問題不曉得身為現在以還是考試委員的你有沒有看出來第一個 那這個科目到底有沒有需要一定要是原住民身份來考他開原住民特考在這一個項目是有意義的嗎這是第一件事情還有他的需求人數列這麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
752.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
770.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那跟他現在的需求是一樣嗎需要21個原住民身份的人做這件事可是卻只來5個這不是很奇怪嗎這是第一件事情如果不需要原住民身份那乾脆把缺放出來趕快讓人補足公務機關有人運作不是比較好嗎第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
771.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
795.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第2個這3個項目我特別挑出來的原因是因為我們在國內大專院校都有原住民族專班有專班那有專班為什麼我們的教考和用會落差如此之大這既然你有考試專案的小組那也應該要去特別調查這是我列這3個特別列這3項的原因它特別的第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
796.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
802.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
814.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
835.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個成立專班的建議是由原民會建議給我們教育部我是把這樣的一個現象提供給他們就是說是不是按照我們現在所缺的這些人才是不是教育部特別也幫我們注意一下在開設專班的時候你覺得教育部的速度好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
838.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
864.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
委員我是認為您很有很大的機會是有機會能夠通過這次的審查續任您應該有四年的經驗了我們非常期待如果您這次可以順利通過的話看到你過去有這一些起步了那麼未來的四年是可以用更快的速度來執行因為有太多的工作需要做這是我們族人朋友最大的期待委員我想請問您當時為什麼來考公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
868.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
894.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你還記得嗎我沒有考公務人員那你為什麼來進入到公務人員體系裡面抱歉我應該修正我的問題抱歉是對不起委員因為這一個部分是我有機會在2005年我擔任過原民會主委的機要秘書開始對啊所以你進入到了公共體系那如果你現在去跟青年學子去招募的話他們為什麼要進來公務體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
897.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
900.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
坦白講這是一個錢少事多離家遠的狀態啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
902.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
930.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個也是一個問題公務人員是很辛苦的所以你與其研究再多你應該要問自己如果我要去招募學生的話我要用什麼可以讓他們有這個熱情加入公務體系不是應該是這樣嗎所以今天特別把剛剛還沒有做到的原住民的行政人員特考如何能夠再加強還有文化敏感度的這個部分跟您就教那另外呢我也想請教委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
931.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
941.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我想請問平原跟山原在現在的台灣社會有差別嗎?平原跟山原的視角有差別嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
943.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
961.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
還是有不一樣因為居住的環境不太一樣那所以在觀點上如果你這樣回答的話應該是說每個族群其實都不一樣吧對 各族有各族的一些因為你賽德克族跟我們阿美族其實就完全不一樣的視角啊但賽德克族跟少族是一樣視角嗎你們住得滿近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
961.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
989.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
嗯,不會,因為他們也有他們自己的文化體系那你們跟賽德克族跟泰雅族的視角有一樣嗎?也不會所以即便是三元也是有不一樣的視角那麼公務員員來任用,原住民來擔任公務員員需要具備有三元或平元的特定身份嗎?目前是沒有分三元平元那有哪一個科目是用三元或平元來區分的嗎?沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
990.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1015.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那你覺得應該要區分嗎大概就是這參政權可能會分山園跟平原其他的面向應該是都沒有什麼所以來做公務人員應該區分山園或平原嗎以目前來說是沒有那個必要沒有那個必要對那園民會主委應該由山園跟平原輪流做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1018.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1018.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
強制的輪流做 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1026.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1050.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
應該不是那麼需要啦三元跟平原要輪流做的這個概念符合全體族人的想法多數好了我們不要說全體他的服務對象是全原住民沒有再分平原或三元或者說你是平原我要有平原的什麼幾乎是沒有他要面對的是全國原住民的服務是 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1051.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1074.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以你的意思應該跟你在選拔所有優秀的人才進入公務體系一樣我們要的是優秀的人才進公務體系而進入公務體系的也應該以能夠照顧全體族人甚至國人為前提為宗旨這才是一個好的公務人這樣講應該是合理正確的吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1074.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1101.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以以三員和平員來區分這個工作我想是在公務體系當中沒有這個必要而且我們現在在各層級的公務人員體系當中甚至在原住民特考當中也沒有用這樣的身份區別是吧是 只要他是原住民有原住民身份他就可以未來會加上這樣子的一個限制嗎不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1102.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1123.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
也不會吧說實在的今天在這裡我想您這樣子的回答其實也是某種程度具備了文化敏感性這樣的狀況所以在我們希望的社會當中其實是各位所有一起相處的國人朋友都能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1125.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1146.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
實時刻刻轉換自己的視角用原住民的視角來看待事物有時候你會發現事情跟你想像的不太一樣有時候這個衝突跟爭執也是因此而可以消弭最後的時間一分鐘的時間主委我想請問如果您這一件能夠委員這一件我想請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1147.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1173.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
在這一分鐘的時間如果您這次能夠順利的通過審查再次續任您最想完成的任務是什麼我最想完成的任務應該是一個是原住民的這個參加特考的人數可以讓他有一個成長的一個目標嗎對因為上一任主要因為我們遇到疫情 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1174.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1199.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我原本是已經都規劃的一個非常就是說在這兩三年我可能要進入到學校去做一些這個宣導也好或座談本來有很好的規劃可是因為剛好遇到疫情然後就是比較零星了那我希望如果有機會讓我連任的話我還要在這方面包括考試的精進我還會繼續來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1201.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1224.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
委員我們看到了你在考試科目上的努力那我們在這裡也是提醒如果你才有機會能夠繼續進入學校宣導是招募更多的青年朋友來擔任公職進入這個政府體系的話我們希望你要也用青年的角度記得你服務的熱情這才是根本之好謝謝蘇委員 |
| IVOD_ID |
158011 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158011 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-06 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-06T17:01:25+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-06T17:21:29+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |