| IVOD_ID |
158007 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158007 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-06 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-06T15:22:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-06T15:42:25+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:24 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c85634c9873cd07325e1a8907114d167aa2e200073c6c08404706ca08a663bb9a2f0af228fb527a05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
莊瑞雄 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:22:01 - 15:42:25 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-06T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席,有請我們考試委員、考試委員、黃備提名人請問黃備提名人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
47.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
黃列庭委員好先跟你恭喜啦我看剛從林國成委員啦他的你們的巡打之間似乎他這一票就給你開了綠燈啦因為林國成委員跟我是同鄉所以我這一票我願意跟著林國成委員跟他的投票意志來一致啦但是有幾個問題啊我要來救教啦就是說讚美的部分我就不講啦這個我也不刻意去講你說你著作等身這個自學有成 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
58.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
在台灣我們整個公務人員扶公職的人這個部分其實他的身份從過去來看的話都非常特殊以從 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
83.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們台灣去祭壽德國跟日本過去公務人員的特別權利關係到現在1972年德國的憲法的聯邦法院他們的聯邦法院聯邦的憲法法院他們就做出了一個判決揚棄了整個特別權利關係以後公務人員他的身份他的保障慢慢的就已經做一個提升了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
87.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
公務人員相對於國家﹑人民對於國家﹑學生對於學校﹑獸行人對於監獄過去在特別權力關係底下權力被限縮例如地位不對等﹑義務不確定﹑有特別規則﹑甚至機關首長﹑ |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
一定的一個懲戒權但問題今天我幾個問題要來就教就是說公務人員的一個權利的一個保障在我們大法官釋字第785號解釋以後有了大幅度的一個提升那我相信最主要的幾個首次出現的一個慘事就是說釐清公務人員訴訟權的保障應有的觀念跟路徑不會因為說他的身份而在公法上有爭議的時候訴訟途徑就會有所不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
公務員的勤修制度應該屬於憲法第22條保障健康權的部分．形成涉及到健康權的法制．國家負有最低限度保護的義務接下來我要問的就是第三個 等一下我會提出來就是說這個整個超額的補償 比如說加班 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
對於整個縫級的延伸這些都不是一種恩己志而且是應該受到憲法所保障這些扶工職的一個權利所以我先請教貝提名人就是說我們現在工人服務法裡面一天上班幾個小時一天上班8個小時可以加班幾個小時加到12個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
181.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
208.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
總共12個加班工作人員服務法裡面其實就是工作人員他扶這個工資裡面這個基本的一個保障你一天上班8小時那你加班一天反正你就只能做到12個小時然後呢每個月不得超過幾個小時60個小時對這個大家都知道可是我們在中華民國我們的整個行政部門裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
214.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
母法授權下來以後啊那變成走樣了完全都走樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
215.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
245.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我不曉得被提名有沒有去意識到你這樣比如說我們如果碰到搶救重大災害或者處理緊急重大突發事件跟辦理重大的一個專案業務或是辦理季節性和週期性這些看起來因為你是公務人員公務人員對國家你就必須要比較效忠有忠誠基於法律去行事上級機關隊你又可以去監督所以業務難免難免就變成說你比較特殊關係國家具有這個高權的一個地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
245.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
可是呢我都覺得說法制這樣一個進步以後行政部門所定出來的這些辦法裡面啊你像比如說我們這次市制第785號裡面針對於健康權保障的跟合理補償部分啊我就要來救教你了就是說工人服務法母法去授權出來那你這些執法就不嚴謹了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
282.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
他去跟你講 譬如說我們現在超過公務法十二小時上限的部分我們現在每天工作八小時的但是辦理重大專業業務延長辦公十四可以到六個小時這樣就比十四點鐘了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
285.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
301.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那你就變成一天裡面是14小時那如果說你到最後說一個月裡面你就連續三個月你就不能超過兩百四十個小時那一個月又變成八十個小時又多出二十個小時了考試委員剛好剛好以後碰到的就是這個部分請問黃輩聽名人你對這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
311.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
323.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你的看法是怎麼樣行政部門所訂出來的執法都全部是超越了整個公認服務法裡面的規定就你不能超越一天12個小時阿秋慧應該衝到16點鐘這邊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
325.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
347.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我想這個部分當然在考試院就是在這個公務人員服務法裡面其實都已經有做了規定那現在授權給各行政部門包括五院還有總統府那就是說剛剛委員所提到的應該就是人事行政總署他所定的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
348.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
349.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
373.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
390.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
協商看看用什麼樣的方法來做比如像這個機關的預算或者是人力上面的增加也好或者對於這些超時的工作做怎麼樣的規範這個我想未來是要努力的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
391.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
409.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我是個人認為說這個非常不合理的一個地方公務人員當然他的身份雖然是有一點點的一個特殊如果是一般老百姓的話你政府機關立法院所制定的一個法律的話你只要不是禁止規定的話我根本連理你政府都不理你政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
410.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
429.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我這依法可以我老百姓的義務我只要進了以後所有這一些禁止規定我不去觸犯它地利於我何有哉可是問題是他因為他公務人員的身份他被要求的就特別的多我覺得這個地方就非常非常的一個不合理公務人員扶工職他來上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
430.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
444.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那我們不可能是一天就把他當成機器人他叫你一直做一直做所以我們必須要有工時的一個限制跟一般在社會企業一樣可是你又客語他 給他說我如果真的很忙的 重大災害是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
445.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
468.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
政府本來要服務人民可是這些服務人民的這些公務人員他本身又是我們的人民只是說他所做的這一份工作叫做公務員那我們給他最基本的保障那這些基本的保障我們又設定我們又制定了公務員服務法可是我們的執法又去超越他那我要問啦要不要一定要服從 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
473.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
493.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這第一個第二個超時了你要不要給我加班費我們現在是比較離譜的是說各機關裡面他認為說各機關好啦我給你加班可是我這個機關裡面我預算編列是不足我的我就不給你加班費我給你技工就好這應該要檢討你有沒有認為這個必須要檢討沒有道理吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
501.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
519.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我覺得這個應該讓公務人員加班的這些同仁已經非常辛苦了應該讓他們有選擇的機會比如說我要補假還是說要加班費 或者可能少數人要獎勵這樣不一定會高興我來上班 上升之後我就說法律給我規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
524.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
524.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
554.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
569.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
本席到認為說只要他有勞力的一個付出為什麼不能去超時的工作就憲法所保障的健康權那這次大法官會議解釋所做出來的也是在講這個健康權 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
570.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
593.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
現在給公務人員薪水這也不是過去那種特別權利關係說我政府我就聽你來你有做事情給你N位N幾字不是啊現在不是N幾字啊那是我的勞力的付出啊雖然我名字叫做公務人員啊那我們既然給他設定一個基本的一個保障啊那我們又縱容其他的行政部門我們又去 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
593.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
621.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
制定一些執法出來說你只要超時工作超時工作法律規定公務員服務法說不能加班超過4小時他們做的事情不要管你我們就給你6小時他說一個月不能超過60小時差不多變80個小時可以這樣子嗎一個法治國家裡面一個法治國家裡面會有在行政部門之間執法去超越母法我覺得黃沛庭們如果是你被本院通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
623.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
650.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
當了考試委員以後這個部分你願不願意去很積極的來面對提出檢討願意當然要去做檢討應該的因為你發現你發現這樣的一個問題我們如果說都不作為的話對我們的工人員這個就很怪了我去加班你說給我獎勵我加班我就想要加班費 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
下班以後你叫我加班錢來啊你假日叫我去加班你應該給我更多錢才對啊那我們現在整個公務體系的一個設計裡面啊我認為這個都是啊我們現在看起來啊就是一個亂象我認為這是一個亂象啊那你在我們的公保法跟服務法本身都利益良善我們都例外的去授權給各機關的一個彈性啊光在授權行政院人事總出貨就已經大家都變掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
683.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
712.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
貝蒂曼你有沒有覺得都變掉了基於業務的需求或者經費的部分但是這個的確我們未來考試院跟人事行政總組這邊需要做一些的協商那看怎麼樣把它做得更能夠符合公務同仁的需求特別是這些公務同仁都已經付出很多了那不應該再讓他們虧所以貝蒂曼你認為最佳的解決之道是什麼我目前因為對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
713.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
733.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
各個單位的這個超時的狀況還不是那麼清楚所以未來呢我們跟這個公務人員這個人事總處這邊有一些的瞭解探討之後再來看看怎麼樣把這個這個制度把它建構好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
735.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
758.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我在這個地方被提名了我們也都不用去說這個用多高深的學問去看待這件事情人性就是這樣人性是說你照規定來我該上班幾個小時就很合理我盡我的本分可是呢你只要讓我去超時我第一個想到的你就是要給我加班費 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
759.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
766.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那不然呢我多了工作了以後你就是要讓我補休我的白日我就可以下班你就偏偏叫你這個主管你就說沒有我們現在事情很忙所以你要來幫我加班 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
774.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
802.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你叫我加班那你當然要讓我補修那按照整個法律來這個才是合理嘛那你現在的規定就產生了落差產生了落差我是覺得這個是比較可惜的一個地方啊就是我們主管機關在行政院定定的範圍裡面你按照整個你說業務的特性有人當然會很沒用嘛用警察啦消防人員啦那我們這一陣子在國會立法院裡面我們幾乎都是在補破啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
803.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
827.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這補破啊就是說對於這些超時工作的部分啊我們本來啊這個部分啊你就必須要給這些公務人員給他們一定的一個知己啊否則呢你在公保法裡面去講講到最後說機關預算的限制或必要範圍的業務需要沒有辦法給加班費啊補休假的時候嘿嘿 說好啦我成績給你跑得比較好啊臭婆人的嘴這樣感動 被評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
830.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
852.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你覺得這樣通嗎 不通 沒通沒通喔 這沒道理啦 道理啦 叫我來加班我也來加班超時工作我也給你超時工作啊 你如果沒辦法叫我補休真的站不住 不用補休 說好來 記公 記小公一次 這樣不要再吵了 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
853.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
872.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這個整個考試院 總理整個公務人員的這個權序的部分也好 保障部分也好這個其實都還是殘留著特別權力關係底下的那種國家高權行為的運作裡面當事人服從了義務 這也不痛 你不覺得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
876.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
886.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以這個應該有機會做到科技委員會希望黃北庭這個部分可以特別更加的去注意接下來就要問你的專業的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
889.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
908.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我知道我們被提名人對於整個這個國會很多的一個研究計劃案也都會委託你去做了一個開放政府裡面到底他的後台準備好了沒有開放政府跟科程體制的衝突跟調和這些話聽起來就非常熟了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
909.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
919.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個是你專門研究的一個領域我記得你那篇這個整個計畫裡面去統整出從2004年到2018年數位落差的一個問題數位落差這個問題就是一個好問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
923.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
946.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
為什麼你政府現在你說我是一個數位的政府要來智慧化時代不一樣了所以政府要更有效率把它數位化可是問題來了社會上都是有一些弱勢者你弱勢者你去接觸這個數位政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
947.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
959.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個你如果沒有準備好你等於又去阻隔了弱勢者去接觸到數位政府服務的一個機會這一些你的研究裡面可不可以簡短的你有沒有什麼樣的一個對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
962.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
976.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我想有關於數位落差的部分其實發生在各個不同的階層、領域、地區以目前來講過去我們臺灣推動的數位政府已經十幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
979.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
993.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
目前來講大概有的落差比較大是在年齡層那特別是在大概是在55歲以上的這個年齡層我們說他是數位新住民你變得改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
994.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1010.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我想就是說這個部分的話覺得是應該要有一些資源的投入比如說早期在那個iPad這些平板剛出現的時候我們研考會或者是國發會這邊曾經有推動一些計畫到偏鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1011.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1038.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那在這個村裡裡面邀請一些比較資深的公民我們不要說老人是資深的公民一起來學所以就是說我們有一些的基礎設施之外最重要是要怎麼樣教他們去使用也就是說在我們的政策的推動過程裡面除了把這個政策的內涵遞送出去之外怎麼樣在這個過程也讓這些比較弱勢的族群能夠學到一點點東西我想不只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1039.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1041.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1060.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1061.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
王貝提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1090.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1109.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
你來做科技委員你考試院你現在還沒去你也知道現在考試院好像覺得很老派這個老機關你掌管這些文官以後你去把它看我去拜託你的大作你再提那個基世代你的基世代你自己會記得嗎幾年出生一個基世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1111.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1128.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
一九九零年一九九零年年代以後出生的現在逐漸成為公務人員國家整體的一個重要組成這個都新的這個每個都新的你考試院是文官制度來掌理的這些人像你也都 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1130.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1155.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
數月有成立以後年紀就一定有一定的一個年紀嘛這也很正常嘛啊你們這叫老派的捏啊G世代這是未來國家公務人員組成的生力軍然後碰到在管理的在中理文官體制的都是你們這一批老派的你們要安裝去創一個讓你們的考試院未來讓人家覺得說你們跟人民是很接近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1156.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1183.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
讓民眾會覺得說你們是充滿的活力的讓這一批既世代的人進來以後會覺得說我怎麼樣來調和因為你畢竟表達方式也不一樣然後思考也完全不一樣可是進入到公務體系裡面這個文官制度這是很封閉的你認為有什麼樣的一個方式或者怎麼樣政府該去加強來留住這一批你所謂的既世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1184.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1212.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我想就是第一個我們考試院本身的同仁他就需要去強化他自己的數位的能力那從這邊的強化之後呢那他們大概就會改變了這個文化應該就會有一些新的機制去跟我們的未來的文官也就是說考生也好或者是公務同仁來受訓的也好能夠把這些新的這個科技或者思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1212.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1222.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
再進來,我想從考試院這邊可以先開始來做很好啦,我是覺得很坦承啦,先跟你預祝啦好,謝謝 |