| IVOD_ID |
15797 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15797 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-22-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-10T08:30:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-10T13:36:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:05:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d6dd93cf8458dbe42ef3840653eac67e33be8d109af184be47353a18e21bf54c15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「『擴大幼兒教保公共化』成效及未來策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月10日及11日二天一次會）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:32 - 13:36:00 |
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報告委員會．出席委員15人以足法定人數．現在開始開會．本週三次一次會．首先我們進行報告事項．請議事委員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1792.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1810.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會．第6次全體委員會議實錄．時間 中華民國1923年4月3日上午9時至下午1時20分．地點 群憲來運營會議室．出席委員黃用凱委員等15人．熱席委員鍾嘉斌委員等18人．熱席人員教育部常務次長．林騰佳率統有關人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1812.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1839.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
由金融監督管理委員會保險局副局長蔡火炎主席科技召集委員致恩報告事項應宣讀上次會議事錄決定因素的確定。而教育部次長率體育署列席就完善國家代表對選手權益義務及健全我國運動產業環境進行專題報告．並備質詢。本次議程由委員黃孟凱 提出質詢均因教育部常務次長林騰交集相關人員及其答覆說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1840.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1855.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
另有委員（羅志強等三人提出書面質詢．決議依依報告及詢討．完畢二委員所提書面質詢．會相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報三對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分．相關機關建訴與書面答覆．通過臨時提案實項．宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1857.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1880.607 |
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好 那由於在場委員未打法定的議決人數3人．所以我們意思錄就暫不確定那今天議程是邀請教育部列席就擴大幼兒教保公共化成效及未來的策略進行專題報告．並備質詢那我們首先先介紹在場的委員我們看到洪孟楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1884.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1892.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
教育部政務次長林明玉教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1910.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1933.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席、各位委員、女士先生、大家早今天因邀列席貴委員會．就擴大幼兒教保公共化成效及未來策略．進行專題報告．盛感榮幸承蒙各位委員不吝指教．將以全力協助．讓學前教育政策規劃與執行．得以日益精進．僅此至上層次的經濟跟現成． |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1934.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1954.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
以下請就擴展公共化教保服務情形及未來策略等面向提出重點說明進行委員指教首先再擴大公共化教保服務的辦理情形分為以下四項重點工作一盤點既有公共空間新設公共化幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1961.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1979.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
為提供家長競變價值教保服務．本部自106年度起．持續與各地方政府召開專案會議．足效盤整公有空間跟空地．與公共化供應量不足的地區．優先補助增設幼兒園． |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1981.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2005.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
2、突破空間不足限制新建原設辦理公共化幼兒園為協助各地方政府突破現有空間不足的困境由前瞻基礎建設補助68元110年之後由公共預算補助公共化幼兒園總共133元3、鼓勵地方政府增設二歲專班從106年到112年累計補助增設958班 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2011.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2022.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第4協助部會新辦員工子女教保服務機構．從110年到113年協助公安部等14部會．總共提供159處431班．增加入局9200個名額． |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2030.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2058.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
其次在策進作為方面．以精進公立幼兒園教保服務．減輕教保服務人員負擔．及增加公共化幼兒園等面向．以達到減輕家長育兒負擔的目標．說明如下．一、精進公立幼兒園開辦延長照顧服務．為了解決過往公立幼兒園受限於參與人數．以至於延長照顧服務費用偏高．使得幼兒無法參加． |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2060.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2061.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
．4月10日及11日二天一次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2076.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2087.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
至於其中每月參加者每小時35塊．寒暑假八月參加者每月2000元．從113年寒假開始．總共有2211公立幼兒園開辦．開辦率有88.7%．112學年度第二學期．就上個學年度．總共有2241元開辦．開辦有89.9%． |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2103.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2126.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
從今年的暑假開始．補助公立幼兒園．提供延長照顧服務所增加的人力．由地方政府跟本部來共同負擔．第二．推動調整私生比的政策．減輕教保人員的負擔．提升教保品質．為了減輕教保人員的負擔．提升幼兒受教品質．本部自112年起． |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2128.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2146.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
跟各縣市政府逐一盤點．內的公共化幼兒園．各年齡招生．還有區域人口等狀況．由公共化幼兒園先行啟動．調整時針比．以3年為期．逐步調降至1比12為最終目標．至於純公共幼兒園．則到115年達到目標． |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2150.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2177.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
目前已經達到1比12的這個原所總共有2080元共佔總公共化幼兒園比例有73%第三根據於公共化供應量不足之處偵測公共化幼兒園針對多位區或者是供應量不足的地區家長對於兩歲專班的需求恐懼持續的協助各地方政府盤點控與空間偵測公共化幼兒園兩歲專班 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2179.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2186.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
納入各地方政府中層計畫及一般性補助款的管考機制．以加速都會區增設兩歲專班的供應量． |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2189.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2214.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
最後感謝委員關注擴大幼兒教保公共化之成效及未來策略為減輕家庭育兒負擔．本部將持續配合少子女化計畫．持續與各地方政府盤整各區特性．是需要調整公共化服務的供應量．以提供符合家長跟幼兒需要的教保服務以上報告進行各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2221.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2223.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
致詢8分鐘,必要時延長2分鐘,列席委員執行時間4分鐘,發言登記截止時間為上午10點30分。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2241.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2260.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
讓委員如有臨時提案．請於上午10點30分前提出．並於本會委員．范雲委員質詢結束後．其進行處理．處理提案時若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場．原例不予處理首先我們請發言登記第一位．洪孟楷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2270.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2273.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席謝謝,麻煩請林次長好,有請林次來,委員長好,次長早次長,我們有看到說今天部長跟教育文化委員會的請假是說他去看災啊請教他是去看哪邊的災他是到國立台灣圖書館還有所屬的館所所屬館所是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2294.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2311.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
對 那照理講 因為對我們來講花蓮地震到現在也是一個禮拜的時間 勘猜很重要 沒有錯但是今天我們審查相關的這個幼兒教保公共化也非常重要那想說奇怪 怎麼會部長沒有來 反而讓次長來代打 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2313.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2314.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
部長對於既定的行程跟政策還是要持續的關係當然啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2328.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2343.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以說我們說幼兒教保公共化這當然是既定的形成啊而且這當然是已經形成的政策而且要持續的推動而且這也是關心到全台2350萬人我們的這些小朋友啊那就部長今天沒有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2344.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2369.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是部長不重視這樣的一個政策嗎?這個業務部長有充分的交辦所以也請委員放心好,所以你講的都可以說得算就對了來,次長想請教,灘災重要那現在說全台灣有515所學校受損那超過10億元教育部現在有什麼樣的專案來補助?好,對於東華大學的部分因為他受損非常嚴重他出戶進退要21 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2370.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2399.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那各高中以下的所需要的經費目前還在估算中你剛剛說東華大學要20億是又超過了我們現在之前新聞報導講說它5億元然後說花蓮女中2.2億所以全台差不多10億元所以剛剛次長已經一開始有講說超過20億那全台515所現在有沒有統審到底這一次受損多少錢各高中以下的學校我請國教署來簡單回應現在已經有沒有掌握了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2401.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2425.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
報告委員現在各縣市報來大概在今天下午5點以前做最後收網數字到時候再跟委員報告現在掌握的狀況是什麼現在掌握的狀況我們現在有各縣市的情況補了將近6200萬補了6200萬那救急的部分是這樣所以4月8日開學沒有問題大概只有西寶國小會延到到富士國小處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2426 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2450.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我請教我就直接請教就是說剛剛市長明明媒體上面報導是說10億元全台超過10億元然後花東華大學差不多5億元的受損那剛剛市長就講直接20億了所以到底是秩序的落差在哪邊沒有落差我們有掌握最新的數據像東華大學我們今天下午會再去勘栽並且做比較精準的評估他們前天送來的是19億2280萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2452.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2454.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
按照我們到今天下午會議截止所有的通報數但是我們目前委員掌握的數字跟我們相去不遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2475.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2498.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個是媒體上的報道嗎?是是是那我們全台好那我只問說如果說現在東華就20億花蓮女中看起來是2.2億可能更高那其他學校整個加起來全台這一波0403的大地震我們是會編列再跟行政院用專案的預算來申請專案計畫還是說會排擠到原本我們今年的一個本預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2500.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2517.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
依照過往的公務預算的編列行政院公共工程會會直接受理各地方政府提報的各縣市的學校所獲得災損補助的經費所以今天下午大概會有一個初步的數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2517.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2538.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好 因為本席要特別提醒就原本每年都會有一些相關的不管是學校的操場整建、廁所改建或者是相關的一些經費那因為0403的地震這確實是天災而意外造成很多學校受損我們當然要安全維護第一優先而且也是必須要最快速的有圍樓的地方趕快給補齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2539.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2564.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以我們今天等一下會提出一個臨時提案要求教育部跟行政院積極爭取專案0403的專案費用來針對這一次0403地震之後全台學校爆出來的一個受損狀況尤其剛剛講說今天下午下班前會彙整好那也請今天下午下班前彙整好的這個資料給本委員會各委員一份這樣可以嗎好 謝謝委員關心好 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2565.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2582.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但重點是要積極爭取啊我們今天給你的這個是讓你回去有相罵板讓你回去有拿著說是委員不分藍綠草野大家共同支持要回去跟行政院好好爭取好不好來再來市長我現在就要確認一下現在這個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2585.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2602.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
準公共幼兒園也是賴清德總統當選人在當行政院長的時候就已經力推的那現在推出6年以來當然有一些負面的新聞啦包括有違反師生筆、學費超收等等但是準公幼仍然會一般民眾大家所信賴那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2604.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2627.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
8月要進入第三期3週前還有新的版本出來簽約條件不明而傳出說有百家幼兒園會退場結果現在真的出來之後大約少了10家可是又也被外界認為說是不是又偏袒業者幼兒教保權大退步到底這嚴重落差在哪邊其中幾個部分我這一一討論第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2629.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2653.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
現在的幼這個所謂的公托是已經有師生比1比12是已經達到73%是在你今天報告對不對但是準公幼卻是希望說能夠在1比12的這個達標結果沒有想到現在準公幼可以再從114年再開始調降115年逐步完成那也沒有說到底什麼時候要完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2654.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2669.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以會不會變成是兩套標準一個是公幼一個是準公幼但準公幼的部分1比12好像遙遙無期又被放寬了115差一年沒有但是你現在的說法是逐步完成你有辦法說115是全面的完成嗎在合約內會規範完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2671.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2695.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
合約會全面規範完成但是這樣子是不是就已經是一個跳票了因為之前大家都希望是說准公幼跟公幼都是一起在113年的時候就完成嘛所以現在的這個狀況外界也會質疑是說那這樣子就說跳票就跳票啊要跳票的時候就跳票 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2696.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2718.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
會變成是說你現在是要再簽約本來是害怕說百家會對場結果沒辦法那你當初沒有講到漸進式的部分好那再來之前已經有達成1比12的這些準公佑那你說提前達成有獎勵現在獎勵辦法是什麼好那個獎勵規定請署長幫我們補充一下現在出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2722.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2729.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
現在如果達成的可以依他的規模給他15、20、25連續給3年萬元是不是給一次對15萬元這樣對於整個來講他對於整個他的一個20、25這樣3年 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2739.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2740.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
15、20、25是他的規模他拿15的,連續拿15,三年這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2757.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2784.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我現在看起來啦你去討論的時候是不是很多的這些業者其實都覺得說這其實是杯水車薪照理講如果說要的話應該是一視同仁大家能夠達到1比12大家就一起達到否則這樣是變成是說好像達到1比12的人這有點反而是願意來配合教育部願意來配合相關單位的這些人反而是他相對來講是比較吃虧啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2784.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2785.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
市長,你怎麼看? |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2812.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2817.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
委員觀察的非常入微的確他如果提早達標的我們提早給他補助這補助的額度依其班級數來決定那當然小園給小兒大園給大兒提早達標提早給補助這個還是不足以涵蓋他所付出的成本但是因為這個政策目標我們之前就有宣示提早達標提早補助這個是這個額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2838.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2861.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
現在辦法已經確定了嗎?已經到最後收回的階段了在跟地方政府跟業者在最後的確定就已經敲定什麼時候會確定?什麼時候最終方案會出來?現在是溝通的過程當中我知道當然有很多的大家也都希望能夠有更優惠的一個條件但是對於我們什麼時候最終點的最終辦法會出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2862.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2872.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這點你一定要給時間點而且重點在於是說之前其實已經喊出說1比12那現在又讓大家外界覺得說好像有跳票那這一次第三次的一個簽約什麼時候辦法要出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2875.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2901.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
還是要通過520新任教育部長上任會會會好來什麼時候3月29號那個大概公布了之後方向就完全確定那剩下有一些細節就如委員觀察到的欸獎勵能不能夠再給予多一點啊或是有些執行的細節不管地方政府或是經營者可能會有一些微微的建議那些我們都會能夠協助的情況下盡量能夠讓程序方便讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2905.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2905.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
4月底以前一定會出來?一定會 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2920.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2948.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
甚至我們提前能夠在4月中午前連細節都能夠出來出來還是本席在這邊特別我想為什麼今天召委會特別開這樣的一個專案報告就是因為在這個知識體大解釋影響範圍很廣所以在這個過程裡面今天很多委員可能會就內容細節部分再去做請教請一定要聽到大家的意見來去做最後調整4月底以前一定出來是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2949.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2973.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
最後我只再利用一分鐘我裡面看到是說要監督准公幼我們當然胡蘿蔔跟棒子都要一起你說有監督准公幼結果第三期的規定沒有看到說實質的查核是什麼新規定居然是要求說院方把院內環境照片上傳到指定平台每天吃什麼點心吃什麼午餐的照片上傳這樣就算監督嗎我可以用兩句話來形容 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2978.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2994.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
這看起來像是紙上作業打卡檢查每天讓老師從幼兒園是照顧小朋友的角色變成是拿一個手機每天在那邊幫學生幫幼兒打卡照相照相完之後上傳老師是幼保員還是網紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2996.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3022.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
發言委員 那個是每天吃的餐食點心國小國中也都有每天吃的人 但我現在問的是說這樣就算是檢查嗎如果說我們現在的檢驗就變成是說讓老師拍照打卡上傳變成是網紅沒有任何的更積極主動的作為那照片能不能拍多張能不能隨時上傳有沒有抽查機制有沒有檢驗機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3025.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3041.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
還是一個食物拍左邊右邊前面後面四張照片分四天傳這些都是我們認為是說如果說你到最後推過還是推給就是一般的准工又一般的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3042.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3042.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
這當然阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3069.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3095.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
任何的一個家長要求都都是如此我相信今天來教育文化委員會所執選委員也都是如此所以我們如果說只有看到是說你要監督的方式我開宗明義就講過去這幾年總共又也是有一些社會的問題而這些社會問題也確實也造成大家會有心理的負擔或是說不信任但是對於一般的家長來講他還是覺得說相對收費比較便宜相對來講我真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3097.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3097.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
市長市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3123.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3141.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
你真的是 次長 我說實在我們這樣沒有對評啦我了解家長關心啦 看到那上面 但是家長更關心說是不是有實質的吃到營養的東西是不是這個東西是名副其實這才是重點 而不是到最後變成是老師們他們去變成是網紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3143.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3158.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我們的查核機制是不是在補充給我們所有的委員讓我們了解你的查核機制到底是什麼你要怎麼去抽查而不是只是放任到最後把責任丟給所有的幼兒園所有的老師讓老師變成是網紅打卡我懂 這實際上的品質的提升是比較重要的謝謝委員好 謝謝洪孟凱委員那我們再請柯之恩召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3171.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3171.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
次長和署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3199.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3225.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
好 謝謝來 次長我們想今天召委排這個題目我們當然就是要來檢視一下我們這個幼兒教保公共化的一些的成效在2016年就開始推出嘛那我想它最主要的目的就是要能夠減輕我們家長的一個經濟的一個負擔像我自己當媽的時候在那個時候我兒子現在已經30歲了我也很想讓他進入公幼但是沒有辦法基於非常多的因素那個時候大概公幼跟私幼的比率是大概是7比3 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3226.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3228.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
基本上我們透過這樣的進變評價這方面的策略減輕年輕父母的負擔這方面我們是有努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3253.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3273.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
你們一手努力也算是成效很好的樣子那你大家最主要的目的當然就是希望他能夠讓我們的父母親因為這個所謂的托兒有保障可以提高他們願意生育的比率可是你看看希望嘛 是少子化的一種方法可是你看看從2016年到2023你已經變成7比3了已經符合你們可能需要的你覺得這算是比較成功嗎你看我們出生數你從那時候還有8.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3282.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3291.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
弄了一大堆之後到2023說實在的現在我們的出生率也變成千分之五點八一完全是溜滑梯的所以你覺得這個教保公共化算成功嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3293.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3312.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
少子化的這個政策是中央各部會一起努力的教育部是其中比較努力的部會所以我聽你說嘛你剛剛講說為了要讓大家提高生育率所以你們把這些的部分完全變公共化結果我告訴你實質的結果並沒有因為公共化而讓我們的出生率因此有所提高你反而因為少子化沒有解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3313.359 |
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3313.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3336.579 |
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3353.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
因為目前為止以前公幼是像我都抽不到然後現在為止我們不僅不要說是總公荒很多的公幼很多地方是有些人是抽圈抽不到有些是根本就是還有缺額你了解這個狀況吧所以說你要不要做總量管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3354.899 |
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3380.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
在人口密集的都瑞區他還是有這個需求像新北像台北不是啦我說你要不要總量管制你現在告訴我說你還是要繼續擴增這個總公共化的這樣一個設備我就告訴你一個雲林那個管制會在管制招生量不足的地方但對於人口密集地區我們還是有需求你有一個機制嗎像你今天還要告訴我雲林我告訴你雲林目前為止就有四間的非營利幼兒園加上一間的這個 |
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3381.468 |
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3410.263 |
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還有再加上一間的他們所謂的托兒的這個部分你要招生289個人目前缺生率達19%那你這樣你還要再繼續擴增你的公共化幼稚園嗎我的總量管制是指這個各區有不同的狀況你有什麼方法來總量管制嗎你有沒有一個科學的方法有 我們用每個鄉鎮地區的人口數人口數然後呢然後再看他原所的招生入學率 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3410.899 |
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3440.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
你要看到他的出生率有兩個方法出生率再加上你可以進小學的比率還有就是你的所有的幼兒園裡面可以遭受的人數你要三個互相做比對委員提示的是對的對否則你會造成蚊子管可是你今天的報告當中就已經看出有很多地方根本缺生數已經不斷的提高你還要不斷的擴建你就會造成很多資源的浪費啊所以你才需要一個更科學的方法來做這樣子的一個管制這是我要特別提醒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3441.002 |
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3464.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
還有呢我們今天一定要用一個公平的原則公平是一個非常重要的那我想請問嘛同樣是納稅人的錢所享用的教育資源是不一樣喔次造你知道哪個不一樣嗎舉例來說我們現在非盈利的這個部分呢大概你投資了44億左右你如果再加上什麼職場互助啊部落互助等等的你大概花費了將近到52億這是非常多非常多的一個數字沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3470.422 |
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3472.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
非營利幼稚園和准公幼在平靜的制度上有不一樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3488.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3492.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
委員分兩點 貧賤的部分是一樣但是您講到對他期間學期間的查核那不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3517.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3532.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
你們都叫做評鑒但是非營利那不是叫評鑒那叫績效考評好不好你光是你光是非你光是准公幼他有退場機制他有些懲罰的機制裡面甚至可以退場非營利幼稚園你是績效考評而且你看看結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3533.157 |
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3535.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
你的績效考評還有幼兒父母的滿意情形這叫滿意情形你這次績效考核不是評鑑跟其他的類別來說是不一樣的雖然你都免稱為評鑑但是你們的標準就是不一樣而且你考核的部分裡面家長滿意度滿意度是很容易設計的你覺得這樣考評的可信度有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3555.965 |
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3571.814 |
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這就是不一樣啊這不僅是他的評鑑的制度不太一樣之外還有同樣的備備是納稅人的錢啊那為什麼我真的有時候還是要特別提出來一下我們的補助的標準是不是一樣對於家長的補助標準是不是不一樣次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3574.68 |
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3588.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
公共化幼兒園比如說公幼一個月收一千塊啦菲力一個月收兩千塊準工一個月收三千塊是建置於沒有我說家長你補助給家長的補助給家長的錢有沒有一樣我現在問說我們通常是納稅錢家長給補助的錢有沒有不一樣有沒有不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3594.011 |
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3622.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
你如果計算起來會有不一樣對啊那為什麼不一樣?通常是納稅人的錢啊你說總共幼兒還有這個肥一定每個幾乎可以領到一萬五千塊的補助那私幼只有領到五千塊啊領私幼的人的父母親就不是納稅人啊為什麼會這樣子?難道你不能給家長更多的自主權嗎?我同樣都是納稅勤我同樣上幼兒園你同樣給我一萬五千塊我可以選擇我要去什麼地方根據我自己的需求讓家長有自主權不行嗎?次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3624.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3642.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這邏輯是不太一樣比如說我們固定給他育兒津貼或者教保津貼給他一定的我兒子在小時候他是固定每個月給我們不是啦我下次告訴你嘛你私幼的家長為什麼可獲得補助就比較少有些時候他是非不得已去念私幼為什麼他就給他五千塊其他人就給他一萬五我下次說從家長的角度對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3645.222 |
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3656.42 |
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阿就是這樣子啊那這就是產生一個不太公平的狀況嘛我剛剛是從公平的角度來告訴你從父母的角度來告訴你我沒有選擇啊我旁邊就有一個比較可以的私有但是我卻只能到五千塊的補助啊這樣有公平嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3664.172 |
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3685.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
還有很多的狀況這就是目前所造成我今天完全從公平的角度來看每一件事情還有說實在你看我們的薪資結構當中你的公幼的確是老師的薪資比較高因為他得到政府最大補助我們都好希望全部都是變公幼但是沒有辦法所以你還需要透過非營利需要準工需要私幼來幫助你來彌補這一塊沒有辦法廣設公幼的一個目標對不對所以你看這些老師的薪資不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3690.14 |
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3699.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
所以如果有機會的話我當然希望能夠進入公幼我說以幼保的教師來說然後第二個選擇就是非林立那私幼呢你可以罵他說為什麼你只給老師三萬五那問題是他遭受的薪資他每次給家長繳過來的錢你也給人家限制啊所以你讓他的整個多樣性來說說實在的你讓這些所謂的私幼裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3713.573 |
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3720.534 |
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造成很大的經營困難而且不要忘記現在有三成是我們需要靠私幼來幫我們撐起這個幼教的不是嗎?是,私幼對於我們從事這個教保服務工作我們仍然認為是我們的夥伴關係所以嘛我告訴你嘛就是說私幼上面的心你給他們招收要求家長的這個他們可以招收的角的一個學費你給人家設立的一個天花板這以至於讓他們設立天花板之後他們沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3741.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3744.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
3岁的脱优的问题如果我今天小孩是你通常是到3岁的时候你才有办法把他 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3766.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3767.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
你不能採取生理年齡嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3788.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3790.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
有個彈性的延長的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3804.4 |
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3827.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
跟委員報告滿生理二就可以入園這個事在最近的委員會都有同意也照這個方向現在甚至我在108年所以有沒有辦法做到嗎預算審查的二歲班才400班這次跟委員會承報958班所以一直照委員會的意見有在處理中對有沒有辦法讓他滿三歲生理年滿三歲就可以進入幼兒園有沒有機會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3829.495 |
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3850.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這是你要做出承諾否則那7個月把家長會瘋掉所以現在才會那麼多班我最後時間有些人我這樣子問一個我們往下去看我們現職的教保人員這是他們給我寫的一個陳情信他們就很想去做這樣子的一個進修但是呢他們查看在我們南部當中唯一的就只有在清華大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3851.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3851.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
施醫師補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3882.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3883.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
4月15日完成調查9月就可以開學了 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3911.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3933.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
今年的9月我們就來看看這事就是南部教保人家要進修給人家一個機會這才是一個能夠讓我們幼保品質非常重要的一個機制好不好還有次造我剛所講的這些從公平的角度來去看不管是準公幼還是有關於非營利幼稚園他們的退場的機制平衡的標準要一樣最重要是給家長一個自主的空間給予平權 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3935.666 |
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3959.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
同樣是納稅人權給他們同樣部分由他們自由來做一個選擇也給私幼一點空間然後也給我們的公幼特別是我最後要提到一個我們的公幼已經有三年我們的很多時候公幼我們的準公共化你是花了非常多的錢沒有錯可是我們很多的公幼公共的這個幼稚園裡面當中他們常常三年想要增加設備都做不到欸你知道有這樣的狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3961.516 |
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3988.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我們跳到前面幾遍我最後一次問這個次長剛好利用這個機會30秒你看我們現在目前來說的話我們很多時候公共幼稚園好不好我們的公社幼稚園裡面他們基本上面如果要來做一些基礎建設的補強上面搞不好要三年以前是每年都可以只要提出來就可以現在三年搞不好都得不到這樣子的一個所謂的硬體上面的部分這該怎麼辦好我們注意一下對我們有受理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3989.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3989.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我們再請萬美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4022.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4023.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
次長和署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4030.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4030.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4060.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4063.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
各級學校受損情形幼兒園36間 國小319間 國中99 高中75 大專17間 社教館2間以上數據次長有掌握嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4075.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4096.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個我知道您知道嗎那這個數據從哪裡來的這是從各校直接通報我們校安網裡面的數據各校通報在校安網裡面的數據這個數據你認為精準嗎它這個在包含財務損失的估算跟復原經費的估算所以你認為精準嗎這個應該不是最後的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4101.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4123.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
本席覺得非常誇張因為我想這一次的受災除了花蓮的災情非常嚴重之外各地的學校都陸續有傳出災情那我們知道學校這個環境一旦建築物有受損的時候恐怕也會影響我們的孩童的受教可是我們來看一下光是您待過的桃園您在桃園當過教育局局長在本席選區的桃園 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4125.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4152.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
清清楚楚就是有149校有災損那400處要準備要修繕的需求那麼估計初步估計的金額就要高達4000萬可是你教育部的資料是什麼是30校我們桃園市教育局這邊整個這個普查出來149校而你們教育部掌握的只有39校那我們再來看你今天拿這個數據不但是不精準而且落差的非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4154.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4163.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我們看一下這個表格來看臺北市教育部給我們的資料說是53所學校但事實上新聞報導得非常清楚我們也再去詢問過了有202個學校新北市教育部說59個學校事實上也高達251間學校桃園本席剛剛說過了那依然來說教育部也只有掌握到11個學校有災損而事實上根據新聞的報導以及我們下去了解也有高達47所學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4182 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4209.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那現在這樣舉例 這個落差之大我覺得這是怎麼掌握的?次長這怎麼掌握的?跟委員報告 這個就是第一個就是對於災損通報我們所掌握的是包含毀損的金額跟復建的經費我們都要一起掌握那這一個應該地方政府他所收羅起來有受災損但沒有金額的這個概括量那我們是比較精準的掌握損失的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4210.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4217.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
市長這樣你還敢講精準兩個字我都定義感到很沒意思我沒有包含金額在內你還敢講這樣叫精準我們就算不要講金額啦金額的時候很難統計嘛那但是你光學校的校數你間數就差這麼多了是不是你可以看一下我們在校安網裡面如果沒有估算出金額我們那個校數就暫時算戰略而已市長我想喔這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4236.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4253.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
各個學校的災情狀況我們是不是要去掌握一下因為這是很重要的而且掌握了以後我們才知道怎麼給他最立即的協助我們希望可能那個系統要稍微做一下更改雖然機率還沒有呈現也要把它勾進來非常需要因為這樣的掌握度真的非常的差 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4254.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4270.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那要不其實據本席了解國教署跟各教育局也有LINE群組啊這是很好就很容易就可以有一個更精準的一個數字嘛只是看有沒有用性而已啦那我不希望因為520要到了那是不是現在有很多的事情就給它放給它爛這樣不可以啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4272.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4286.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那再來我想根據各校現在預估整個復建的金額的報的方式是由學校或地方政府我們去代言到行政院公共工程委員會那他有一個災後復建工程經費審議跟執行資訊的一個系統裡面那經過這個初步的審查審查完畢後再由工程會再去做一個最後的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4294.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4296.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
直接地方政府透過公共工程網的這個災損通報這個平台我們最慢大概10天內會給他一個金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4318.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4321.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
教育部修改非營利幼兒園實施辦法,當時考量到非營利幼兒園是公共化幼兒園的一環,比照軍公教人員調薪4% |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4341.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4348.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
根據薪資的幾幅的基準表我們來看到如果我們以專科畢業的這一集來看幼保園的第一集來看調整薪資之前大概是36,525塊調整薪資之後變成37,986塊學士畢業從39,132提高到40,214 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4369.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4373.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
全國各大幼教團體從2月開始起不斷呼籲調高準公幼幼保人員薪資但國教署在3月公布的準公幼第三期合作機制是要從113年8月開始起 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4390.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4390.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
市長,我實在不太理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4407.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4407.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4437.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4453.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
你告訴我你會選擇哪裡我先跟委員說明委員關心所有教保員的薪資福利這個我們表示非常的認同那對於公幼非營利這個在基本上我們在設算它是屬於一個公營的機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4455.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4472.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
準公因為他是來自於民間的私誘所興辦出來的他原來的薪資是由私誘原所所提供的但是我們接手之後從今年開始委員所知道的我們一月份除了給他加薪一千塊之外一千二 四趴嘛齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4472.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4481.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
在8月份在第三期的準公幼的教保人員的薪資我們會從兩千塊開始調薪所以這個努力我們也希望跟業者一起來市長我跟您提我們這樣講我們教育部一直在講說我們把這個公共化公共化的就是這個比例越拉高那怎麼拉高的是全部一起努力的包括我們剛剛講的非營利、準公幼、公幼我們是全部算在一起去把這個比例去拉高所以我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4502.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4520.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
就是說我們在衝這個公共化的時候啊相對的不管是我們的人員啦薪資啦權利義務啦要同時這個拉到一個水準點來嘛那你當已經有落差的時候我想這些教保員的感受是不好的那當然因為你說這是政策好上有政策教保員有選擇權吧那所以就會造成啊齁其實這個在準公約的部分可能教保員吶這個穩定度就沒有那麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4527.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4527.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
市長您剛剛的說明是就政策上面去說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4550.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4550.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4580.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4581.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
委員會議中間期間也可以到委員辦公室請議 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4602.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4626.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
這點非常重要我希望署長把他放在心上接下來我想一樣次長這個其實署長也可以聽我想我們教育部國教署有建制一個全國教保資訊網的一個填報系統那要求所有的幼兒園都必須要填報這個教職員清澈啦設施設備啊幼兒園專用車收費啊還包含教職員的薪資等等那我們要登錄這個系統都要使用一組這個帳號密碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4628.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4628.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
新證人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4652.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4653.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
市長或署長可否回答? |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4681.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4682.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
葛如君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4718.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4722.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
主席有請教育部林次長好 有請林次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4726.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4748.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
委員長謝謝很高興初次見面想請教一下次長您來自國教現場是也負責督導國教的業務想請教您認為在什麼樣的教育階段應該逐漸的來使學生接觸AI的工具或者教育部的立場是高中以下的學生完全不應該接觸AI工具應該還是不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4750.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4765.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
對於人工智慧方面的素養我覺得在大概國小高年級階段應該就可以理解一部分那當然從中學階段中等教育的前端就高國中階段其實就應該開始策略應該嘛 所以應該嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4769.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4792.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
近來教育界因為發生了幾場有關AI的爭議事件 想必你應該也有所聞首先是復興商工師生美展的首獎作品 結果大鬧臺灣後來被發現使用人工智慧繪圖 而且使用比例超過了七成最後依據校內的規定來取消該名學生的首獎資格 而且計了小過處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4794.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4823.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
另外一個事件．教育部每年舉辦的全國高級中等學校閱讀心得比賽．有評審發現省閱的110件作品當中至少．而且只是至少．有25件疑似是用深層式AI來寫出的．怒斥閱讀比賽彷彿瞬間成為AI大亂鬥．從此我們到底如何信賴．如何比賽．對此教育部的回應是參賽作品不得抄襲．模仿改編意志外文．而且也不得以AI工具深層來代寫． |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4824.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4841.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
或者鼎用他的名義參賽．若違反查證屬實的．應該通知學校．並在下一個參賽廳提示停權．如果兩次就永久停權．取消資格最惠獎狀至少從這兩個例子看來．我認為教育部的立場．對AI工具的使用其實比較保守．甚至不鼓勵同學使用AI工具．是不是這樣． |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4843.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4843.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4858.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4884.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
謝謝我覺得在這邊我覺得就出現了一個小小的疑議因為您剛剛是說應該要知道應該要學習使用AI但是只要一到比賽就不能用AI不鼓勵用AI我想請教一下次長這樣子大家到底要如何判斷AI到底是戰犯還是戰友AI到底是工具還是我們的敵人請教一下次長目前教育部到底有沒有針對高中值以下的學校訂定AI使用參考指引讓同學們清楚的知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4885.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4897.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
哪些範圍絕對不能使用AI工具?哪些範圍可以使用AI共同協作?哪些範圍可以放心使用?哪些範圍可以完全使用AI代勞?有沒有相關的指引? |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4898.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4902.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
有沒有針對高中子以下?包含嗎?有沒有說比賽不適合用?然後鼓勵他去學習?有這樣的規定嗎?在裡面? |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4921.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4944.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
沒有特別說規定比賽不能夠使用必須要是每一個比賽他的一個屬性去設定他的一個比賽的規則我想剛剛次長其實有些描述希望你們比對一下次長的描述教育部的想法跟這個所謂的指引到底有沒有一致不要讓同學或師生感覺到疑惑因為沒有一個明確的指引同學就不知道哪裡能用哪裡不能用 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4945.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4973.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那他可能也不會注意到相關的比賽規定導致得到了這個懲處甚至剝奪未來學生參加比賽的權利我覺得會讓人家覺得說AI時代來了但是我們好像不鼓勵他去用這些新的工具就像我們電腦時代來了鼓勵學生教作業用毛筆不能用電腦我相信這應該不是對的遠遠相比不要去用懲處應該要去建立AI使用的正確觀念那我想請教一下市長可不可以承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4974.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4991.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
就是這個AI使用參考的指引可不可以去研議一下有沒有需要修正的地方跟次長剛剛的說法比對一下是不是能夠讓同學師生更清楚的了解好 謝謝委員的提醒對於AI方面的教學的指引我們會再升級成為3.0版 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4993.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5006.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
太棒了謝謝那接下來為什麼我們非常急切原因就是因為不要讓師生在學習的過程當中覺得很猶豫覺得很懷疑覺得很害怕接下來想請教一下次長觀看這三幅風格迥異的人像畫作 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5008.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5022.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我就不讓您去分哪個是真哪個是假全部都是假的全部是AI創作的這都還只是我們隨便上網隨機去找的每一個看起來都是大師作品但是這些東西我們在睡覺的時候每一張圖每一個AI都在進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5023.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5042.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
任何一個學生用這個東西來參賽就算了參賽還會說禁止AI我如果是設計系的同學拿這個去做入學考試我去做我的portfolio哪一個老師看得出來老師說我會在設計系任教過我完全看不出來接下來還會更像每一個人都是大師 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5042.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5045.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我想請教一下,這些幾百頁的畢業論文﹖口試﹖入學書審﹖有沒有AI的參與﹖參與的比例到底有多高?我想請教一下次長,教育部到底有沒有訂出AI生成內容判斷原則﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5068.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5093.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
或者經教育部認可的AI生成內容的判斷工具來協助老師學術學校有沒有目前是沒有那委員所提示的我們就來加速建置好 非常好這裡我真的是要幫忙一下媒體也還有師生去講AI工具生成代寫如何辨識教育部的回應是每篇閱讀心得參賽作品 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5094.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5118.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
均在隱蔽各自以後由人類的評審來評比．評審老師得利用資訊平台搜尋．比對作品系統等工具．也沒有說什麼平台．也沒有說什麼系統．而且還要針對AI工具生成的特性．如文章所引用和參考資料．原始創意和深度．辨識是否為AI生成工具的代寫．這一段話雖然是用中文寫的．但我們其實讀完有點一頭霧水． |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5120.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5136.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
國外都在用工具都在發展工具來幫助老師結果我們台灣竟然是要老師用人演我相信這個真的他們會非常辛苦請教一下次長當第一線的老師用上述的流程原則來去比對 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5137.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5151.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
阿萬一沒有指定工具也沒有指定平台也沒有指定方法阿如果搞錯了說他是AI結果不是說他不是AI結果是那這個影響到學生的權益如何受損的話教育部公關要如何處理阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5152.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5171.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這如同剛才委員所提示的對於提供教師來評斷評選AI生成式的相關的文章圖文甚至影音影帶這方面的相關的這個判讀工具是有必要在非常好我們其實第一學府台灣大學其實就已經開始做一些準備對確GPT生成的內容偵測工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5174.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5177.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
提供全體委員會提供全體委員會提供全體委員會提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5196.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5214.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
這個一定是要來整合的提升相關的正確的觀念也要賦能給學生也要賦能給老師不要有數位落差也不要有智慧落差接下來我的質詢有時候都會猜一猜剛剛那個不用猜這個給您猜一下哪個是人哪個是AI這四張 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5215.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5219.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這題我們其實有放水啦上面標題就寫這個是人類跟AI的共同創作左邊兩個是人類漫畫家勾勒出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5237.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5241.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
右邊的兩個是AI幫他玩搞的這個就叫人類與AI的協作我們不要把AI當成敵人比賽也不一定要禁用AI我們要給他們好的觀念來讓AI一起來幫助他你運用AI的孩子我們要給他鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5254.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5280.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
沒錯 很好 市長這樣的觀念非常棒我們應該要來鼓勵相關的原則就要放進這樣的說法好啦 我想我時間有限剛剛我們都講的是人類跟AI之間接下來我們還有實體安全跟資訊安全之間的對抗資安事件黑箱頻傳40天以內發生了四起重大資安事件這個我們還是要來盯一下每10天出包一次教育部黑箱大事記我們已經幫您整理好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5280.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5284.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
總算拿到了4月3日結果只有四個字電氣因素你要不要下次就變成火氣因素還是什麼天氣因素到底是你的配電盤配電有問題線路有問題還是整個機房配置有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5305.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5328.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
你把UPS放在主機機房旁邊UPS旁邊還有電線直接一牆之隔這個東西真的是不能只用電氣因素來檢討像請教一下這個治安發生以後這個應該一個月內因為這是第三集嘛想請教一下有沒有送交報告到教育部按時送交嗎有沒有一個月內應該要送交交了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5330.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5354.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
委員在科技大樓火山來會後我們有去看過一次委員有提示有關於電氣式的相關的設備UPS的置放的地點有所不妥的我們要講我直接講答案啦你們3月22號壓線交啦但我們那次去訪查我們要了很多的SPAC的資料我們要了UPS的資料我們要了機房的資料要了你們說今年年底以前要提前裝修的資料我們目前還沒有拿到喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5355.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5372.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
麻煩再處理一下另外3月12日及14日駭客入侵結果目前4月10日26間學校的學生學習歷程檔案資料到底有沒有篡改要清查清查完了沒我的碎紙上一堆學生在問說他們的學習履歷傳完了到底還在不在有沒有問題他申請學校會不會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5381.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5403.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
3月27日又再發生一次事件公關系統大浪跡一壞就壞五天如果超過復電的時間可能又變成三級資安事件請問一下電子公關系統復原時間的目標設定是多久幾天要回復我們總共前後四天你們本來內部說多久要回復有沒有超過 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5405.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5420.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
超過我們固定的時間這個我們要檢討這個要檢討而且到時候要確認一下這樣是不是又變成三級治安事件統計起來教育部可能會變成所有部會的第一名這個真的是不應該這樣學習應該是很安心很安全公文系統當機的問題真的不要再發生最後想要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5423.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5423.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
接委員提示 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5442.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5462.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好,最後我們想講就是教育部這幾次的資安事件真的是令社會大眾對於教育部的資安防護產生了疑慮更令大眾有所不滿其實黑箱的作業真的是非常可怕沒有一個事件的發生原因的細節被公開後續的處理跟未來檢討改善也沒有完整的公布在陽光底下供我們來檢視甚至連教育部的部長都被關進了這個黑箱 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5468.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5488.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
被遮蓋在這個教育部裡頭兩個禮拜沒有出現在立法院我要跟市長講今天我們提出的問題教育部一定要盡快提出解決的辦法以及配套的措施也希望跟部長這個幫忙轉達一下不知道他在布裡面還是在黑箱裡面都沒有關係希望他還是很安全不然我們可能要那個龍無霸格要貼在部長身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5489.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5506.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
雖然要卸任了,無法逃避,不去解決這些問題希望下個禮拜我們可以看到部長出席在委員會好好善盡備詢的義務,可以嗎?部長永遠都在陽光下陽光下,只是不在立院的陽光下希望他可以來到立院的陽光下,好嗎?好,謝謝,謝謝好,謝謝,謝謝葛盧君委員,次長請回好,我們接下來請羅廷偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5529.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5532.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
好,謝謝主席,有請次長好,有請林次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5537.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5561.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
委員早安市長很高興今天在這邊遇到你那當然啦我覺得我們還是希望有機會是不是我不喜歡你啦你知道我們對你也非常予以期待當然還是希望有機會部長能夠親自來做一個備詢委員他今天去勘災國立管所幾個管所是勘災的問題是嗎是是是OKOK好要不然我下一句就要講不然下次你來當部長不敢不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5562.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5585.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
最主要我要跟大家講我想說我們之前我要延續前一個委員葛委員說的我們都很關注這個學習歷程的一個問題待會就要討論到幼兒園那我想很多的同學一直在跟我們抱怨甚至希望我們一定要在這邊發聲這個學習歷程已經變成了多元學習那個元是一元兩元的元是那個一塊錢兩塊錢那個元真的對他們來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5588.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5603.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
真的是要額外花費許多的金錢去學習到這個學習歷程我想對於有一些不管是資訊差或者是偏鄉或者是有一些孩子他比如說我遇過金門的孩子他要為了這個學習歷程 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5605.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5630.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
他要來到本島那來做這個學習歷程的一個充實這些都會影響到他的一些生活開銷花費或是家庭的支出我想我們如果要推這個我想利益良善但是整個配套並沒有做好所以本席覺得在這樣子的情況之下學習歷程是不被接受的較多我們必須把這些狀況來好好的跟教育部來做一個同保教育部應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5631.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5651.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
正是這個問題讓孩子的多元學習不是讓他們增加多的支出甚至是更多更多的時間要培養這個學習歷程我們台灣的升學壓力已經非常非常的痛苦現在又多了一個看似要給他們一個機會但是呢又是跟爭與更多的一個壓力我想這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5652.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5674.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
教育部應該要真的好好想想學習歷程到底這樣推出到底是利國利民還是誤名多元關心我們高中的孩子生徒大學所必經的之路學習歷程來自於多元入學管道的其中的一個精神就讓孩子多元學習之後呈現一個表現的一個證明履歷 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5676.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5695.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那這個經歷勢必有一些偏鄉孩子會比較辛苦渡海來台取得相關的認證等等等所以學習歷程檔案的呈現的優化或者簡化這方面我們是要努力或者是配套或者是教育部或教育局地方的教育局有沒有給予一些資源讓這個學習歷程不要有這麼大的壓力或者是不要有這麼大的金錢上的壓力讓他們能夠來參與我覺得這個部分的配套應該要做好是 這個我們要注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5704.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5705.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
進變性評價的這個費用這回答到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5720.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5736.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
第一題的答案我覺得有兩個答案第一個答案就是你說的便宜 淨第二個我覺得是有些家長覺得花錢不手軟只要能夠給孩子最好的他都要像我的太太她對於這個教育的品質她是非常非常的龜毛 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5736.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5765.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那他覺得這個部分他願意去投資孩子的教育所以這是兩種答案但是這一份報告我要跟您報告的齁這個裡面的所有內容都提及的都是我們擴大公共化所有的一個進度我們在開設公立幼兒園、非營利幼兒園以及教保服務中心、職場服務中心的班數跟招生人數這些東西都在講述這些增加的班級數招收的人員但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5766.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5785.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這些每一個班級跟每一個公立幼兒園他不用花費巨額嗎?您有探討這個問題嗎?我想僅對於國小內利用空餘的教室來改造增加公立幼兒園或者是班級數花費的金額您知道每一個班級數平均大概多少錢嗎?您大概知道嗎?如果以當然建置成本在內對 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5792.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5794.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
3500萬除以100可能要將近35萬一個班級35萬只有35嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5804.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5828.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
總成本不止35萬應該連一個教室的裝潢都不夠我是數百萬我跟您特別報告一個園至少要3500萬在台中市的南區國光國小他找到了好不容易一個他們以前在做回收室然後把它變成了一個公立的幼兒園場所上個禮拜的幼兒園我們有一起去看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5830.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5837.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
只有一班我非常開心終於爭取到然後我很開心問他這樣子招收名額多少他說12位 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5838.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5844.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
所以我看到在設立的過程當中我們的量能是不夠的而且我們在設立的過程我們花費的是巨額在設立公立幼兒園或者是公托或者是兩歲專班但是我覺得啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5865.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5893.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
如果像我們如果花費一個比如說公立幼兒園整個幼兒園園所的成立設立完以後我覺得大概要一億左右那如果我們的這一個每一個花費的費用都這麼巨額難道我們都沒有想像過我們要怎麼快很準讓這些家長可以馬上的享受這些福利比如說如果你蓋了要三四年我的孩子基本上兩歲專班已經錯過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5895.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5910.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那我們真的能夠使用得到嗎而如今現在的子女少子女化每年出生率下降13萬餘人我們一直不斷的大量擴大擴建公立幼兒園非立幼兒園我起初是認同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5911.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5932.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我是覺得公托公幼要備正但我覺得花費巨額而且耗時真的很長我們是不是應該把這些巨額的預算趕緊來做另類的跟我們民間來合作所以當時我在開出的政見我們當然是希望公幼全部免費但是呢私幼能夠再加碼加碼再加碼我知道你們已經有加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5935.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5954.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
但是我希望施幼補助能夠到一萬元的這個部分作為一個目標我們更希望說普及公幼的兩歲專班我必須講這份報告是委員所知道的就是我們對於施幼跟准公幼也納入夥伴關係這方面的補貼我們是不太目前是五千塊的對對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5956.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5979.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
委員的意思就是以其加速建置公共化幼兒園不如縮短時程來這個講述相關優良的幼兒園就是跟民間我們已經有合作了嘛但是我就說投入的這個金錢我們看到不符成本然後再來就是現在又面對的是大量減少的出生率如果這些園所未來我們不需要用到或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5980.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6001.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
的需求量減少,那怎麼辦?所以我覺得在短期上能夠力健肝,我們應該是趕緊跟我們的民間來做合作,加碼再補助。那再來普及兩歲專班這份報告裡面也有提到,這個數字真的是有一點慘不忍睹,它增加的名額並不多,增加的名額並不多,那 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6002.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6012.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
您知道我們在地方說抽公托公幼像在抽樂透那我可以說兩歲專班像是在抽不是大樂透是微利財的確兩歲專班如委員所認知的兩歲專班我們還很努力目前是全國有900多班我們覺得還不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6020.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6040.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我還想要再跟您討論其實我在當議員就在講兩歲專班還遇到一個問題就是因為他的兩歲專班的名額不夠我們許多孩子在所謂的公托托嬰中心那當然是衛福部的一個主管機關他一滿三歲馬上被趕出去兩歲專班又不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6042.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6067.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
一滿三歲真的不誇張他是跟他講我們不能再收了已經延到三歲了一滿三歲請你離開托嬰中心好啊那這個時機點找不到銜接的兩歲專班或者是幼兒園他有中間的一個空窗期對啊空窗期我們都不處理然後我覺得衛福部我想要這次次長我要特別拜託你你是會做事的人而且有跟你接觸後我發現你是講時事的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6069.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6082.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這個空窗期我們可不可以跟衛福部來做跨部會的一個討論因為有的只差幾個月真的幾個月比如說我三歲剛滿我可能是五月我七八月才可以入選 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6084.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6101.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那這個三個月中間你說要找一個臨時的保母有這麼好找嗎?保母每個都有空額嗎?再來有適合的保母嗎?然後要換新的環境家長會不會擔憂?這次三個月要換為什麼還要中間空一個臨時的保母? |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6101.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6124.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
為什麼不能直接讓我能夠進入到幼兒園幼兒園也說啊還沒有時間到我不能現在超收啊沒有等那個孩子上去啊所以這部分空窗期您能不能覺得處理一下委員所理解的我來描述一下如果說他到5月就滿了3歲離開那個托育中心他3歲滿了他5月我們還沒有讓他進到幼兒園這兩個月的空窗期對 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6131.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6159.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我們來想看看有沒有辦法在這方面的轉型機制我是講5月有的3月就滿月了你要給他適應一個臨時的保姆再適應第二次真正的幼兒園這些空窗期我們在地方遇到超級多的案例民眾都在抱怨我們該怎麼跟衛福部好好協商衛福部可不可以滿3月的那一個學期 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6160.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6186.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
而不是滿3月我覺得滿3月的那個學期跟滿3月委員所提示的我們跨部會來研議研議的結果我們初步報告再跟委員回報您答應我要給我回應的喔我這個當議員就一直在講了但是地方社會局就推給衛福部嘛但是我今天再叫教育文化委員會我希望教育局兩歲專班你已經沒辦法成立這麼大的量能你要跨部會來做溝通協調好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6187.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6210.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那這個部分您可以給我回應嗎?好,如果委員召集我們兩部會來做一個演商我們會很願意來加入好,最後我要再幫那個教保人員說話我們現在這裡面提到的只有基本起薪將提高2000元我認為教保人員現在就在真的招募不易那我們又在一直在推私生比1比12又要改為115學年才達成我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6212.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6235.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這樣子不能夠納為這一本的政績裡面來跟我們說因為你就是還要再等待這些時間對我們來說沒辦法立即享受我覺得還有一段時間那再來就是幼保園真的經營辛苦不易幼稚園的成本也一定會增加找人又不易我覺得我們只是給予這個三年的定額獎勵金真的夠嗎我們是不是有更多的配套來協助這些幼兒園讓他們的環境更好讓他們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6237.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6237.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
謝謝羅廷文委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6268.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6269.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
吳佩奕委員教育部委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6285.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6288.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
市長請問我們教育部是不是大學的主管機關是請教你一個問題最近發生一個事件我們的臺北大學校園內學校希望要把現在舊有的宿舍 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6304.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6321.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
已經使用了50年要整修不符合效益成本來要求學生要搬到新的宿舍所謂新的宿舍也是已經長達43年的校舍那學生的住宿費用會因此來提高市長我請問你如果你是學生你會接受這個安排嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6330.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6338.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那天在陳抗的時候我有看到有幾個委員在關心特別大學學生會的新生我認為校方的處理應該要更細膩一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6341.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6363.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
好 校方怎麼處理呢依照我們的大學法學生當然也是學校的主體所以在我們的校務會議裡面的代表依法規定必須要學生代表出席那就我們的宿舍的使用我們校務基金管理及監督辦法管理委員會也要學生代表在這個會議上面學生代表希望來主張學生的訴求要討論的時候僅只是要表達意見既然發生學生的麥克風被關掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6370.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6375.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
被禁聲、被消音、被禁止發言市長你認為是恰當嗎?這要符合我們學生自治精神嗎?那請問教育部有沒有對於學校什麼樣的表示?建議、糾正要讓到學生要跑到教育部的樓下抗議教育部才看得見嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6395.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6397.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
當天本會的范雲委員陳培宇委員也陪同學生在教育部的樓下來表達校方對於學生自治權侵害的抗議我覺得非常的遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6411.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6432.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
台灣的學生自治已經走了這麼多年的時間了學校的宿舍如何使用怎麼樣才符合校意同時兼具保障學生權利當然可以討論今天我們的大學是連校方連讓學生討論的權益都不允許這是我們學生自治的倒退啊次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6433.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6447.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
本會委員：范雲委員還在念臺大的時候：就在爭取學生自治權益我在當臺大學生的時候：也曾經因學校裡面的校舍：學生跟校方來進行公共的討論這都是符合我們學生自治怎麼會到今年了我們學生自治走多少年了學生代表要發言：校方把他的麥克風關掉教育部有什麼回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6458.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6459.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我希望教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6475.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6475.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
接下來要跟次郎討論的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6491.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6505.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
也是在我們台北市去年發生一件讓人非常非常心痛的事件在我們台北市的幼兒園發生有教保人員性侵6名以上的女童的案件那讓人更加痛心的是這個案件從家長開始有發生異樣小朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6515.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6539.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
回家跟家長說老師會摸我尿尿的地方家長開始發生有異樣但是到原方要求要調閱監視器原方不讓他調閱然後家長尋求去報警結果因為證據不足沒有辦法起訴然後中間臺北市的教育局又沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6541.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6551.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
讓原方這個停員．也沒有讓老師停職．導致於已經知道有這樣的．性侵情勢可能發生．還有學童來入園．然後還發生臺北市教育局．對外說不能公布幼兒園．機構的名稱．不能通知原方裡面其他家長． |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6570.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6583.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
導致於已經有這樣的事情發生有家長卻不知情把孩子送到幼兒園去來我現在先請問市長這個案件他現在這個行為人已經因已經因 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6588.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6614.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
加強強制性交罪．對未成年違反醫院猥褻罪等．起訴、羈押、收押、禁建．那同時臺北市政府的行政調查結果也出來了．我先請問市長．這個幼兒園現在已經是廢紙撤照了．這個遠方負責人未來能不能再經營幼兒園?按照法規是永不得經營相關事業的這位老師未來能不能再從事? |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6614.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6617.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
在這個案件中調查當中我現在請問次長社會大眾非常關心的問題調查當中已經知道這樣的事情可不可以公佈幼兒園機構的 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6633.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6652.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
給社會大眾知道可以依照教育條例本來就可以公布本來就可以公布當時就可以公布卻沒有公布是導致於我們沒有防止不幸的事件再次發生所以我們要督導臺北市政府來加強努力這方面應該要依史公布絕對要督導是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6654.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6665.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這個事件是我們在中間有可能去阻止更多不幸發生的對 可以避免更多的受害者這麼多人都可以來幫忙阻止但是你們沒有所以 台北市政府這個這麼重大的事件的案件也現在有調查檢討報告出來了 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6675.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6695.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
教育部你們當然是主管機關我們中央的應要相關機制未來如果地方政府在調查當中就有發生不恰當的採取不恰當的處置我們及時就要去介入了我希望你們也要把我們檢討報告提出來我們如何協助督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6702.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6713.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
因為他主管機關是地方政府但是教育部責無旁貸對我們責無旁貸我們一起努力那個組長你跟委員補充一下然後這個案件呢因為這個老師他是幼兒園園長的兒子 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6721.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6731.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
因為他同時具有幼教人的身份所以在這個事件當中他有辦法依照你們現行的幼教法來處置但是我有一個問題今天不只是這個郎師非常的可惡犯刑讓他可以連續犯刑這麼長的時間也來自於原長是他的親屬然後原長隱匿案件不報 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6751.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6773.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那今天假設原長的兒子他不具有幼教員的身份但是實務上我們看到很多原長的親屬其實是在幼兒園裡面幫忙照顧的有時候人手不足有時候甚至可能主犯的阿姨也會來幫忙照顧所以他是有機會來接觸到孩子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6775.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6802.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
今天假設這個案件這個幼兒園的院長的兒子他不具有幼保人的身份但是他犯下了性侵孩童的案件這個院長能不能夠再繼續經營幼兒園依照我們現行法規他目前已經被廢止了即便他改名也不得從事相關的行業 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6803.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6813.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
對,他現在被廢止然後就算改名也不能從事相關的行業是因為在本案當中他涉及了隱匿未報但是呢我現在是假設的是這個院長他如果不是涉及隱匿未報但是他的兒子因為跟他有親屬關係所以有機會在幼兒園裡面接觸孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6831.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6839.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
倘若有性平事件的發生性侵的案件這個院長按照我們現行法規他還可不可以再經營幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6842.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6871.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
為什麼問你們這個問題?次長你很清楚因為我們去年才修過這個性平法性平教育法針對在學校場域裡面這個性平事件我們是加強來保護被害者學生但是我們的幼兒園目前不在我們性平教育法的適用當中因為它是學前教育在性平教育法裡面如果學生遇到性騷性侵等事件但是行為人是校外人士 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6873.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6888.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
學校也負有通報義務及後續移送相關機關的義務但是在幼兒園裡面假設發生的加害者他不是幼保人員他是園長的兒子我們有沒有給他們等同的保護這我是認為這是非常嚴重的一個問題所以我希望針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6900.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6909.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
令人毛骨悚然這麼心痛的案件．教育部請就本案各案．在處理的流程當中．可以預防的錯誤進行檢討．同時來去檢視我們目前． |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6919.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6932.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
你們依照幼照法幼兒園裡面發生的性平事件．你們不需要用性騷防治法來處理但是有沒有等同於性平教育法．對被害者的保護．我希望就法規層面我們也要進行檢視好 謝謝委員關心我們幼兒相關的受教權利．以及加強管控幼兒園．園方 園長相關的二親等內所犯刑的．我們要嚴格來管控 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6946.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6962.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
市長 這個你們會不會有一個檢討的報告出來給我們教委會所有的委員他們已經給我們檢討報告我們檢視他的報告以後如果他有所不當我們會用有需要你們的檢討的意見是 好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝吳佩奕委員的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6971.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6974.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
主席好 有請次長好 有請林次長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6991.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7009.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
市長早安今天其實在這裡我想要再次的告訴所有人其實凱凱案真的不能成所以今天在這個地方其實在進入我們的這個公幼或者是幼兒園的一些制度的問題之前其實我們先來討論一下這個案子市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7013.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7025.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
教育部有收到這份兒福聯盟的報告了嗎?3月29日你們就收到了。你們可以告訴我看完之後你們心裡作何感想? |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7026.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7044.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
好 那個在凱凱案發生之後我們對於財團法人法授權教育部實施所有的監督工作監管工作我們就即刻要求他做相關的改善希望他兩個禮拜內提出這個改善報告有寫在這裡嗎是寫在這裡對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7049.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7050.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我們先來看一下報告的第二頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7064.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7083.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
前面他先強調了一下這三年當中他們做了哪些事情或者是沒做哪些事情但後面我們把這個格子拉大了他說最後本會決定在2024年的經費預算上已經會呈現所謂的赤字他已經在預告他今年他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7084.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7102.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
次字將會短缺九千七百多萬．而且本會將有進行捐款．合理而且有效運用的決心．跟具體的行動．在凱開案之後．他還寫到這個部分社長你的想法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7105.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7130.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這份報告的檢視檢核我們會透過法律教育財會計方面的專家來做會審他前面有特別提到在2023年他們的服務達3000位兒少翻轉了孩子的生活處境2023年翻轉了孩子們的生活處境包括12月24日死亡的凱凱嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7133.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7133.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
第9頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7151.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7166.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
他的報告上第9頁．本會長期會嚴謹將善款用於服務上．也感謝各界的指教．未來更致力把每一份捐款．都用在強化社工人員的工作環境．提升個案的服務品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7167.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7169.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
好,我們再來往下看,看第10頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7197.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7201.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
他們說他們的內控的制度是出現了一些問題這的確他們有寫到 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7204.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7229.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
一個財團法人．一個兒福聯盟．有龐大資產．45億資產的財團法人．到今年．到去年年底．到3月．到今年的3月．凱凱案出現．爆發之後．他才跟我們說．他的內控的確有問題．社長．身為主管機關的教育部．覺得這個兒福聯盟有沒有問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7231.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7231.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
再從第4頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7251.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7274.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
第11頁他說他購置不動產其實他早在2019年在內湖購置3.7億的不動產那時候其實教育部就已經有提及因為是在你們的官網裡面其實我們找得到這個新聞資料那個時候其實教育部就已經提及要針對這個事情來做審查然後要來做一些調查這個部分其實一直到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7275.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7290.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
一直到凱凱案發生之後2024年的2月他在台中用現金現金買了9800萬的地然後現在跟我說2024年他們今年他們短缺9700多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7295.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7315.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
本同他把現金拿去買房子當作辦公室所用所以他說現金有缺損所以這個我們要再檢視一下他這個合理性再來上次其實我有提到他們監察人的制度到後來當然其實教育部針對兒福聯盟他們的規章是得涉所謂的監察人所以他們從 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7317.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7342.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
幾年前他們就沒有監察人的制度也就是相對來講他的內部控管是絕對出現問題到現在他們的確也提了將來會積極尋求所謂的內控專業的一些人員跟監察人員好但是呢他們講到的居然是用志工的方式所謂的志工我不知道我的認知跟次長的認知是不是一樣志工是不知心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7344.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7346.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
監察人在法規上面沒有強制他設置但既然設置了監察人就要負監察制度的這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7362.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7374.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以我們在回歸到我們教育部是它的主管機關財團法人法我不知道他們的董事甚至於他們在3月27號開了一個不給媒體記者問問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7378.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7378.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7394.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7417.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
財團法人法第29條所規定的法規當中有強制或者是禁止規定或者是因為因為一定行為而不為者他其實已經違反了這幾項了那接下來教育部我們針對他的這一份這一份令人覺得完全在講空話的一份報告檢討報告這個叫檢討報告教育部你們會做出什麼樣的懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7422.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7429.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們經過專家會審強力的嚴格的監管之後．如果這個書面報告有虛偽作假．或者是誇大歧視．我們會不排除勒令請他重寫重寫而已除了重寫以外你對兒福聯盟．包含他們的董事有沒有利益迴避．有沒有辭職．還有他的董事長是不是應該要下臺．是不是要下臺為凱凱案來負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7453.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7457.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
有沒有辦法做到這一點這是我們教育部的職責也是我們的權利針對不合格的兒福聯盟這麼大的一個缺失是不是可以做到這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7466.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7488.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
要如何作出懲處?對於董事會監理不周由董事長他們來負起責任那對於他的財務的相關的運用由本部來加以監管對於他的業務的推展的疏漏由他的牧地事業主管機關衛部來做檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7491.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7506.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這份報告是他們3月29日提出來的對那接著下來我們要看到教育部針對這份報告你們也要寫一份報告是不是也同樣的可以提供給本會的委員們我們專協會選哪時候開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7509.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7511.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
除了專家學者以外能不能夠也聽一聽凱凱的家屬們他們的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7528.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7547.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
如果針對各案的出租養義務相關的這個責任的部分我們希望衛務部也應該加入我們跨部會來做回應他們的這份報告的回應書給我們可以嗎可以跨部會來做這件事情嗎但業務的推展跟推動我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7549.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7576.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
因為衛福部也是他們的重要主管機關我是針對我們財團法人法的教育部我是第一個提出質詢的委員在這裡那當然還有一點點時間我們先來看一下我們的這個準公共化的幼兒園針對重大情節問題限縮它的期間跟它的範圍的一個原因那針對所謂的教保以及我們的幼兒照顧法之前我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7576.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7578.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
請主管機關處以罰緩﹖這個是之前我們的規定 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7595.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7615.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
後來准公共的第三期不得續約的條件我們看到了其實只包含行為人的負責人以及員長那如果是該班的老師在全責的部分是不是會有所謂他為了要脫責或迴避那將來這樣子的一個狀況我們要如何認定為什麼到後來修成變成是條件放寬了之前的具體的那些對我來講任何一項包含性騷擾這個都叫做不當 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7624.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7625.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7649.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7649.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7669.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7696.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這個絕對不會是答案喔因為我們得到的本來是國教署的這邊的答案居然是這樣讓我們覺得也很詫異怎麼會這樣我們不是應該是針對兒童他們自己本身的受教權跟他們的安全跟他們的福利跟權益為主怎麼會因為我有了錢像這樣子我會導致官員的速度官員的數量太多這不對喔我們提升教保品質為先啦至於退場的元素就不在我們考慮之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7697.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7706.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
好 那不管怎麼樣其實我們都要以兒童的權益為宗旨這個部分我希望教育部我們大家一起來努力好嗎好 謝謝 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7712.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7730.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
謝謝 謝謝郭育晴委員 林次長請回那我們再宣告一次喔 因為剛剛我有宣告在陳秀寶委員質詢後 我們休息五分鐘那因為陳秀寶委員跟陳培宇委員 調換時間所以就在陳培宇委員質詢後 我們來休息五分鐘好 請陳培宇委員好 謝謝主席 那有請次長 謝謝好 謝謝林次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7739.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7758.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
市長辛苦了,謝謝我想先問一下市長我是東華研究所的校友啦我一定要關心一下我想問一下目前災後重建那教育部因為經費非常龐大那我就想要先快速請問一下教育部目前是希望權力支持嗎還是說東華大學他們必須有多少比例的自籌款 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7760.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7764.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
本來第一階段報來的災損大約是5億重建費日前大概3天前報了19億2800多萬這個額數是非常龐大的我們必須要跟院爭取相關專案的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7775.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7775.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
謝謝次長 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7793.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7813.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
今天非常多委員都提到了關於對於兒少的不當對待或者是虐童或者是體罰在所謂的幼稚園所裡頭那這麼多的案子其實都是近半年的案子我們非常的詫異我們只舉了其中的一些案子但是大家不要緊張你們可能都站起來太快我們是要講兒女因為兒女已經很多人講我要講的是其實在教育現場我們來看一下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7816.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7830.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
在教育現場大家看到的困境就是好像很多家長都覺得他們很可以隨便對幼稚園幼兒園的教育指指點點但其實我們要相信喔他們這些老師其實有相關專業對不對我們來看一下其實教育部之前有頒發過這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7832.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7836.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
教保的課綱在2016年的時候相關的課綱那我們想像就是如果有課綱一定有相關專業素質的訓練可是我們其實也除了家長想要安心上班之外我們其實聽到另外一個困境是老師真的也很想在教育現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7848.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7876.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
發揮他們的教育專業不是只有熱誠跟愛而是還有專業可是現在時間的分配人力的分配其實都讓老師沒有辦法好好發揮專業我在這裡除了所有委員對於幫忙小孩喊話之外我也支持但是我也想要幫老師喊話教育部可不可以站在更加支持老師的立場提升他們的在職專業讓他們的專業能力跟他們必須要有的空間是被教育部所支持的被地方教育局所支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7877.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7885.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
也就是說當孩子們去上學的時候他可以開心家長上班可以放心而老師上課可以安心這個關於專業的部分可不可以請次長回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7886.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7914.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我們對現職的教保人員．對於他們的真人相關的研習．我們有一定的管控機制我知道至少有十八十數是是是沒錯 這個我是清楚的可是除了相關的研習給予支持之外其實第一線老師還有非常非常多的需求跟聲音那我們是不是可以拜託教育部在三個月內關於如何協助老師提升他們的服務品質給予更具體的方法尤其在面對更新的時代加長更多的需求這有必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7915.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7916.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
對於同才的這個群組的建立相關的激勵鼓勵我們有大概有兩三百群兩百個社群讓他們共同來討論激勵成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7938.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7957.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們還是希望教育部可以提出更多具體讓老師是安安心心的去上課好不好那我們希望三個月內可以看到相關的進度跟內容報告因為我們知道教育部都會跟地方教育局處固定交開所謂的大的會議那我相信他們也會反映老師在現場所需要的東西好嗎尤其是專業增能的部分謝謝次長我們來看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7959.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7973.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
公幼延長的部分我們非常感謝教育部補上最後一塊把經費來了然後人也來了而且我們看到相關的實施辦法甚至很多家長在網路上說很可惜他用不到了大家都覺得這是好事我們來看一下可是這個好事之外我要想要再幫老師說一點話怎麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7976.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7982.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我們來看一下在我這個頭影片的右手邊4點以後是所謂的課後留言就是我們說的延長照顧的時間不管他是到6點半還是7點我想要問一下次長或者是署長你覺得這段時間到底該讓孩子做正式的學習還是非正式的學習那每一個地方的樣態又有什麼不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7998.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8013.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那如果回過來看老師們在這一段時間去上班的老師不管他是所謂課後照顧班額外增補的人力還是原班老師繼續留下來到底他們在這段時間他們到底該為孩子提供什麼樣的內容這個部分我想請次長先回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8014.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8025.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這段延長照顧服務的這個期間就客戶沿途這部分還是以照顧服務為主啦就是照顧好這樣啦照顧好就好大部分人都是這樣照顧好就是可以吃點心啦看車啦看卡通阿不然就是做一些活動對不對但是會不會有家長我真的必須要說很多家長會不會覺得說這段時間就是在幫小孩補習一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8036.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8057.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
對阿 上才藝阿 再多上一點英文阿阿不然來學一點學齡前數學也不錯阿但是對老師會造成很大的壓力那我這邊的訴求我想要跟教育部討論一下我們來看下一張其實我剛才說其實教育部都會跟地方教育局處開會可不可以協助地方教育局處去收集現在延後照顧這段時間老師在實質的課程內容設計上或是活動設計上到底面臨了什麼困難延續剛剛前面的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8065.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8071.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
現在教育部要開放到延後照顧時間可以去上班的人其實都有他相關的專業喔那他們的專業在這個時段可不可以發揮家長可不可以認同孩子們可不可以接受或者是那個學校的空間可不可以支持這個老師專業的發展我並不是說要去要不要上課或者是要不要安排什麼樣的活動而是老師的聲音老師所需要的支持委員對於課後員托的這個期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8091.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8095.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
該上什麼課該補充什麼教材等等這個部分因為比較廣泛那實際上也比較不符合我們當時讓孩子留言減輕他家長的負擔然後在那裡快樂的學習那如果有必要的話我們收集地方的相關的意見來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8109.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8129.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我並不是要叫他們上課次長你誤會我我們要叫他們上課是說老師們如果他覺得有什麼樣的需求可不可以是地方教育局或教育部統一有一些配套來支持老師我們跟地方政府來研議甚至我其實也非常支持4點以後孩子們真的不要再上課我們當然上班一整天都累了可是會不會真的有家長就提出需求說既然都留下來就上一點課搞得老師現場壓力也很大次長一定懂我的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8134.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8140.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我覺得要有一套規範給老師一個支持那至少面對家長這些想要上無盡無止課的家長的需求我們老師也有一個說法好不好像國中小就不可以上新的進度啊對啊我知道嘛我們在幼兒園這一段可不可以讓老師有個說法去面對家長的這些需求好不好也讓家長知道我們教育部的立場就是支持孩子在4點以後多一點放鬆的時間多一點玩樂的時間從玩樂當中學習本來就是很重要的趨勢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8163.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8190.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好 那就拜託教育部了好 下一個 謝謝關於這個退場其實很多人談了但是我想要講一下其實我目前收集到很多準公共他們的違規現象非常的明顯但是目前他們所必須要繳交的資料跟相關的上傳資料對於很多人來說會覺得很不公平非營利的標準非常的高公立的標準非常高可是這些準公共的部分那當然我知道在今天的業務報告裡面你們並沒有把準公共納入所謂的公共 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8190.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8190.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
感謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8209.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8224.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
對於準公的退場機制為什麼沒有在這個報告裡面因為這個報告是公共化對我剛剛說我知道是擴大公共化這對於準公的相關的退場機制我們也正在做最後聚焦的部分很快就會公布大概4月底以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8228.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8243.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我們看到教育部一樣非常感謝教育部教師免費心理諮商納入教保員這個非常重要再次感謝教育部這個德政在今年1月的時候相關記者會跟新聞稿那我們去查了相關資料我們也跟國教署要了資料113年3月29號你們已經喊給各縣市政府說錢已經到位囉可以讓教保員納入我們來看下一頁可是發生了什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8251.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8265.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
你們的實施辦法是每年的10月1日到10月31日可以提出申請可是我們來看一下這是某一個縣市的表格一一二學年度我們就看到他們的表格在幼兒園的部分寫的是公立幼兒園園長 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8266.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8270.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這個寫法會不會讓很多人誤會還有就是剛剛前一張投影片已經說了你們是1月公佈那你們說錢也下去了可是計畫卻是10月那這中間會不會有計畫執行的空窗期讓教保員他可能有這個需求但是他卻不知道他可以去申請因為要問這一題之前我已經問過很多第一線的教保員老師他們說 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8288.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8307.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
他們並沒有收到相關的公文通知說他們在今年就可以去使用這個所謂心理諮商的公費服務所以我猜想啦我猜想教育部有這個美意教育部也有經費下去了教育部也發公文了可是在地方教育局處跟各個員所的溝通想必出了一些困難或者是這個表格不曉得哪個縣市的我們請他改正 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8309.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8332.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
不要只是各個縣市可不可以請各位盤點一下全台灣到底是哪一些縣市都還沒有通知園所導致園所的老師並不知道有這個事情有這個服務我們在含詞各園所那我們也會再跟國家署提起的資料主要是地方政府地方政府對 地方政府可是因為你們錢已經下去了那不要讓地方上的老師說為什麼有這個好處不要被限縮住了 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8333.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8333.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
謝謝陳培宇委員及次長秦輝 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8662.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8662.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8693.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8696.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
委員好市長我們今天在討論公共化幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8699.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8704.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
教育部在幼兒園幼教這一塊的政策一直朝向比較單一反而更意志的這個思託的發展的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8723.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8751.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那特別是比如說有一些做法比較僵化我這邊就先舉一個這很多家長跟我反映的因為現在我們學齡的兒童如果他滿3歲在我們新北市他從公托就要離開嘛這個次長知道嗎對我們公托是收到3歲嘛貴婦部的公托對啊我們新北市公托也是一樣到3歲就離開了但是他如果要進到幼兒園的話他必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8752.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8755.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
8月1日至12月初生小朋友3歲半至幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8776.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8787.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
已開公托之後就沒有地方可以去了不好意思我在質詢的時候不要交談好不好不然次長會不知道我問什麼好不好我們稍微尊重一下我們委員的質詢可以嗎次長你知道我剛剛問什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8793.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8809.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
3歲滿離開衛福部的公托不是衛福部的公托就離開公托不要再公托他會有一個空窗期那這空窗期現在教育部是用什麼方式在照顧這些幼兒空窗期那如果沒有家長可以帶沒有保姆的話你們是用什麼政策來照顧這些空窗期的幼兒目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8822.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8842.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
如果說員所裏面有缺額他還是可以進來啊?員所缺額?哪一個員所的缺額?如果員所有缺額他還是可以進去讀啊?進到私幼嗎?私幼、公幼都可以?可是我的了解就是不可以欸如果兩歲專班也可以對,好齁,你講到兩歲專班現在問題就是我知道教育部現在推兩歲專班啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8845.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8857.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
但是兩歲專班在推動上執行這樣就有困難嘛我們理想是很偉大的但是現實是有點殘酷啦因為兩歲專班的成本比較高嘛這您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8858.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8868.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
一個老師就是師生比的比例比較高1比12原本是其他的1比8其他是1比15但是兩歲專班是1比8所以現在要求各師生在做兩歲專班的時候困難度比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8876.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8876.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
邀請教育部列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8897.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8922.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
要到8月1日才能入選,警長好像還是沒有聽懂我的問題,所以不能聊天啦,好不好?你現在,所以針對我剛剛講的空窗期的小朋友,怎麼辦?你可不可以開放讓他們可以優先去讀小班?因為有很多私幼或是你剛剛講的公幼沒有滿啊,公幼大部分都滿了啦,私幼有些沒有滿,那空窗期小朋友你可不可以開放讓他們去讀,可不可以? |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8923.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8944.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我覺得技術上應該也不是什麼困難所以您有答應不是答應啦在研議這方面的沒有研議啦沒有說研議我們都是來自於地方都把家長的心聲反映給你們然後你們都一直研議然後一直研議研議個兩年三年就過去了然後他的小朋友都長大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8945.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8971.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我不要再延誼了你市長可不可以在這邊直接承諾啦有缺耳的公幼應該可以收到公幼沒有什麼缺耳的公幼啦好不好公幼有缺耳嗎如果公幼有缺耳的話基本上你不太需要再建置公幼了啦偏鄉地區公幼有缺有些密集騰口區的還是有啦我就是來自於密集的還是有啦密集的區域嘛我們這邊的公幼就是很滿嘛我現在就是針對那些家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8972.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8983.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
的問題好不好 次長你要研議我也不可能你沒有授權還是怎樣可不可以很快的給我一個答案可不可以多久好 我們盡速盡速多久啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8986.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8987.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
國教署有一個全國幼兒園的幼生管理系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9010.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9025.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
為了保護幼兒這個系統大家都支持很棒但是這個系統面臨到一個狀況是我昨天遇到的就是有離婚的夫妻的小孩他夾在爸媽中間媽媽在板橋爸爸在高雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9026.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9050.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
因為兩個人分隔兩地所以小朋友要讀書變成爸爸在高雄抱了一間幼兒園媽媽在板橋抱了一間幼兒園可是夫妻沒有溝通所以就產生一個狀況就是小朋友在高雄被他們兩個是這樣輪流待一人待15天所以出現的狀況就是爸爸在高雄照顧小朋友的時候小朋友進到高雄幼兒園讀書就登錄系統那下兩個禮拜是不是到板橋了 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9051.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9068.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
可是爸爸不願意登出所以變成小朋友在板橋的系統無法登錄因為一定要另外一方登出所以一方才能登錄 對吧那結果就產生這個小朋友在板橋讀的時候幼兒園不敢收為什麼 因為沒有登錄的話可能會被處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9069.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9069.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9099.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9112.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
必須要讀不同幼兒園也有可能遇到這個狀況啊溝通不良結果一方不願意登出另外一方面的小朋友就沒法登錄嘛那我昨天問那個你們派來的那一位副組長啊他說哎呀這個就是爸媽的事啊爸媽自己協調啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9114.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9139.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
如果爸媽自己協調可以的話我需要開協調會嗎?所以怎麼會這麼官僚咧?我們今天為什麼要來討論這個幼兒園的政策?不就是政府希望給小朋友更好的照顧嗎?有的時候是跳過家庭去照顧這個小朋友不是這是政府應該有的機制啊那為什麼你們國教署的人來我們的協調會一副就是那是家長的事好啊那所以家長多通不良的話小朋友應該要受害嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9140.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9168.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
怎麼會是這種態度呢?這個我們來改進不是 怎麼會是這種態度?欸 很官僚欸你們每次在媒體前面都講了一副我很照顧小朋友的樣子私底下協調會是這種嘴臉 市長你覺得應該嗎?不會啦 我們會努力的游秀署署長有來嗎?你覺得應該嗎?沒有 我們是來檢討所以你覺得不是檢討嘛 你覺得你們派的人那種官僚說好 而且那一個陳情的人也有跟你們陳情啊你看一下你們公文是怎麼寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9169.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9172.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
能夠問說這是新北市跟高雄市根本無關 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9173.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9201.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那我就要問那中央什麼事情跟你們有關政策不是你們定的嗎系統不是你們建置的嗎為什麼跟你們無關謝謝委員昨天處理完之後新北市已經在處理我們會跟他一起處理可是我昨天協調所以新北市處理人家第一時間問你的時候你說是新北市的事嘛可以這樣子嗎我現在的問題就是說我跟你講第一啦不要那麼官僚你們是教育單位應該最有愛心的怎麼一副就是家長的事跟我無關 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9203.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9220.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這沒有問題我們照這個角度來處理這樣真的很過分耶是 謝謝委員然後第二是說我相信這不會是個案啦這通案啦因為剛剛講的已經3000多個家庭就是一年可能不是每一個人都會遇到這個狀況但總是會有其他的有這個狀況吧的確的確你可不可以訂出一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9221.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9242.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
解決的方案出來沒問題要怎麼解決這個案子當它完成了新北昨天跟我們講會完成就這個完成的過程我們把它變成可以通案化給各縣市可以參考處理的過程國教署跟各縣市怎麼來協助這類的方案盡快好不好沒問題三天內以後我們派協調會不要派這種耍官腔的人來可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9244.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9272.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
謝謝委員可不可以可不可以我們持續來努力啦不好意思不是 你連承諾說不要派關槍的人來都做不到喔所以下次來還是一樣打關槍喔市長 可以這樣子嗎對委員召開的相關協調工作我們要請同仁遵守分契啦要跟委員同事的不要太官僚啦 是是是不是 你們派的人來隨便打關槍倒楣也是你們啊因為我們就拿來講啊全世界人都會看到啊所以你們希望這樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9274.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9296.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
希望委員盡量那再來喔剛剛推那個公共幼兒公共化或是准工我覺得很棒啦但是兩個問題因為我們快沒時間我很簡單講一下第一個之前有補助我們地方政府八成的預算來蓋旗艦型的准工嘛對吧這個市長知道嗎市長知道嗎但是因為那是三年前合訂的經費這三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9297.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9297.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9314.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9328.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個對於我們幼兒園老師對幼兒園老師的培養我不知道次長這邊你有信心嗎因為根據我們的資料第一個你們規定幼保園的薪水其實是不到四萬即便是六年研資還不到四萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9330.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9339.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
2.最近幾年幼兒園被檢舉有問題的第一名都是聘用了不符合規定的老師 教保員3. |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9339.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9347.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
最近民進黨的政治人物在造謠教保員都會未讀所以搞到很多教保員離職這事情次長你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9349.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9365.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
去年去年的時候在我們板橋有名義代表造謠說這個教保員的未讀啦而且這不是冰山一角啦搞不好教保員覺得說我每個月領個三四萬塊我把這小朋友視為己出我這樣照顧結果你們造謠我未讀那我不幹了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9366.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9392.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
這就是民進黨立委造謠的後遺症阿對我們現在要給教保人員一個公平正義的對好那現在你現在按照你的資料如果按照這樣子建制下去的話教保員實際上要增加非常多你知道嗎知道要增加多少嗎我沒有算吧我沒有算大概多少教保員會增加會增加非常多位 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9395.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9405.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
委員所提列的是大概有6000多人如果說以115年政策目標一比十五的師生比來說最少要增加6938位老師那你有把握說會招得到6938位老師嗎在這樣的薪資的水準底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9410.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9428.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
有把握嗎?我們每年的幼教系畢業的我記得是五千人現在就是不夠了嘛然後再加上去年那個造謠未讀的事情每年會畢業四千多人所以你承諾說不會有這個問題對不對?因為我沒有時間了我看到趙偉有一點不太煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9435.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9436.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
有請林次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9464.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9481.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
次長早安今天是4月10日1994年的410教改大遊行到今天剛好滿30年那這邊我想請教次長您對教改覺得有什麼成效如果100分您給教改打幾分 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9483.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9483.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9501.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9516.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我自己成為一個教育的基層工作者這方面我還是覺得有所進展那我們的孩子也一年一年的成長跟進步這是正面的當然也產生了一些負面的影響比如說私校退朝還有相關的這個教育人員相關的品質的提升這個還有很多的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9525.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9538.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
市長其實我們對於教育政策如何與時期進行如何滾動檢討﹐所以使得針對我們所做的政策﹐不合時宜的地方來調整﹐這個部分很重要本期很肯定李院長當初願意站出來推動教改﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9540.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9568.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
但是後續的改革似乎大家都覺得糟蹭了就是不符這個期待那全教總這邊也說教改小班小校的這個目標並沒有達成而廣設高中大學也沒有真正的減輕升學的壓力甚至更甚的是弱化了技職教育那次長您覺得說好如果我們要來如何加速推動這個小班小校的這個政策目標還有強化技職教育跟那個產業來接軌您的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9570.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9589.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
小校小班的目標我們是逐步達成目前的降低班級的師生比是有一定的成效但對於私校的降低師生比是沒有的還沒有達成那對於技職教育的提升我們要更努力比如說高職的退高職轉型為科大科大專科學校專科學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9591.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9596.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
轉型為科大有很多人努力在這個階段看來現在各界對於技職教育這一塊大家現在才覺得說非常的嚴重所以我們如何去調整我們的腳步調整我們的這個政策教育部這邊真的應該要謹慎來思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9606.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9614.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
另外高中大學的數量雖然大幅增加．其實看起來是像是不愁學校可以唸．但是其實升學壓力並沒有比較低108課剛強調說要通才適性的教育．但是根據統計．6成的兒上課後要補習．而且在補習班待超過的時間大概會超過9點．超過9成3的孩子每天睡不到8小時．甚至也不到6小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9632.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9656.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
一週運動也不到一小時 超過一半以上的學生一週考試超過四天那長期這樣子高課業的壓力又缺乏睡眠的休息狀態之下呢其實有六成以上的國中高中生出現學習疲勞的狀況那這邊我也想請教次長要如何真正減輕學生的壓力以避免說在這樣子高壓的學習的狀態之下他們產生偏差性我們如何適時的提供孩子協助來調適他們心理的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9659.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9679.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
委員所關心的的確是我們目前面臨的挑戰我個人認為只要有學校有明星高中大學存在這個學習壓力是沒有辦法解除的這是社會的通念也是家長一般的看法那只有在教育制度設計上比如說我們現在免除高中學生早自習 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9681.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9686.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
每天頂多有一次的找這個桌會那我覺得這是一個小小的進步那這個其實是在我們學校端可以做的那其實那學生他為了加強自己的學習為了加強這樣的話他們會參加一些其他的課外的一些輔導一些補習 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9698.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9698.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
請教次長,我們很多年沒有召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9722.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9729.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
全國教育會議是什麼原因那教育部願不願意說在我們新政府就任之後馬上來召開全國教育會議你們有沒有規劃在1994、2010年我們在台灣有開過這兩次之前都是在大陸那全國教育會議的確是可以收集各教育關心教育的所有專家學者或者各類團體一起來共商教育國事這個是有必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9747.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9768.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個部分本席這邊是希望說其實我們教育的工作我們在現在看到我們教育的工作是忙著解決眼前的問題但是我們對未來10年20年以後這個前瞻性的這個部分我們就很少琢磨是有必要當然全國性的教育會議也許有的人會認為就是那種形式就是那種大拜拜就是大家來坐下來這樣子談但是就真的是一個坐下來討論的一個這個過程是必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9771.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9791.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這部分我希望說能夠盡快來規劃召開全國的教育會議來凝聚共識接下來我想要請到次長這陣子對於我們家長們都非常憂心對於藝人黃子教持有七步兒少影像這個新聞非常多那我身邊的家長對這些事情都非常擔憂非常焦慮那我們陳建仁院長也說了表態就是說兒少性剝削是絕對凝蓉忍 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9796.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9814.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
本席相信這是跨黨派的共識也是全臺灣民眾的共識那在這樣子的社會事件跟議題的延燒之下有各方的說法跟有一些在青少年間擁有話語權能力的影響力的這樣的表態這樣的氛圍一定會影響到我們的孩子所以這邊我想請次長跟署長你們身為國家事務的組長現在剛放完年假而且又大地震後續這些影響我們的孩子在目前的身心狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9825.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9830.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
他們在學校的學習是能夠定下心來安穩學習的嗎這個部分你們有沒有去注意委員所關心的這幾點包含兒少保護的相關的這個宣導就如同陳院長所說的我們有一定的機制下架其他傷害兒童相關的不雅的影片這個目前已經比較這個平台已經建立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9850.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9863.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
提到了在這邊本席要正式要求教育部跟我們教育部狹下的所有單位不管是圖書館學校等單位你們要全面的檢視過去有跟這個藝人黃子江合作的所有資訊公開圖卡一定要全部下架這個部分你們有在做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9864.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9865.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
本席提到這個部分是希望說我們能夠適時的提供我們孩子心理的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9884.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9910.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
在除了加強性平教育之外我們如何保護自己尊重別人之外那其實我們有一些孩子其實在線的孩子他們接觸的訊息量太大他們也許在心情比較敏感的這個時刻如果我們沒有適時的提供協助也怕孩子們他們受到這樣的影響這個部分也希望說各學校能夠隨時注意孩子的狀態好來在次長我再跟您請教針對AI的發展本席一直覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9911.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9921.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這是非常重要：而且AI的進步非常的快一直都跟中研院：國科會及文化部經過很多次的討論但上週的新聞報導就發生本席一直很擔憂的狀況教育部主辦的閱讀比賽及學校辦理的這個會圖比賽雙雙出現AI的參與那我們在討論學生是否是投機的心態這個時候有沒有思考過教育的本質不是強硬的禁止 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9936.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9937.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
提升AI運用的素養包含倫理包含誠實包含自己要發揮創意呈現AI作品這才是有價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9956.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9979.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
對 次長您說的就是我也希望就像次長您說的這樣子來做我們應該要召集各學校針對這個AI的這個衝擊及後續因應來做相對應的回應禁止不是唯一的選擇不是唯一的做法那麼如何跟AI共存俱進這個部分也希望說我們可以思考並帶領各學校我們一起來進步往前走好 那接下來呢要針對今天的專報的題目來就叫次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9983.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10000.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
總共共的初衷是希望可以減輕家長的負擔家長的壓力但是根據本席這邊跟你們討要資料近三年幼兒園不但管教件數一直增加從110年的59件成案111年112件到112年有182件是成案的那這個是已經調查屬實平均一個月下來是有將近15件 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10010.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10014.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
市長你覺得看這個訊息這個數字你會不會憂心跟家長一樣非常擔心是 幼兒不當管教我們在去年幼保雙法這個立法通過以後我們強化了相關的認定的機制包含縣市政府成立認定委員會對於有關於對待不當對待的相關的幼兒事件我們才開始呈現比較真實的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10037.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10052.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
除了說我們去這個認定這個基準這個標準如何說認定它是一個成案那是一個事實之外你們有沒有去去討論就是說探究為什麼會有這麼多的這個不當管教事件發生原因何在 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10052.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10056.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我覺得在教保人員在基層服務的時候他面臨很多的壓力他也許有一些不當的行為對待兒童那當下他就已經處罰了所以我們這方面應該要從教保員的相關的智能的提升延期的量能的推展 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10073.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10085.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
成立專業社群讓他們在這個社群裏面互相的鼓勵激勵我們這方面我們也給他協助但目前全國大概200多個社群讓他們在這裡面共同成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10087.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10104.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
市長本集樂見說總公共進入第三期那教育部這邊也要研討相關的管理的措施那好那現在針對於無法續約的原所即將轉出的這些幼兒教育部這邊有沒有向地方政府瞭解實際運作的困難以及需要協助的事項是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10106.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10121.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
主要是 如果他是一約退場 那我們對學生我們有相關的安置的安排 如果……這樣的安排是到位的嗎 那轉出原所這些孩子他們在適應上有沒有影響有沒有問題 那整個過程裡面家長會不會覺得他們負擔更重壓力更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10125.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10144.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
因為他離開了原來園所離開了自己熟悉的人事物老師他當然會捨不得所以這方面如果到新的園所去這方面應該要加強一些心理方面的這個輔導市長因為我這邊時間也到了本期希望說教育部這邊可以跟地方的縣市政府加強聯繫跟溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10146.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10146.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
謝謝,謝謝次長,謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10171.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10171.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10195.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10220.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
市長好,我想我們還是先來關注一下這個人權教育的部分這會跟我最近在關注這個黃子教的案子息息相關就是說我們現在是有這個幼兒教法有一個幼兒園教保活動課程大綱我們是在講說我們是需要去幫助孩子發展這個幼兒的發展還有社會文化的期待區分為身體動作跟一些健康的知識 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10223.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10248.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
但是我想問一個這是我從這個教育部的這個性別平等的教育課程教學教材以及幼兒園的教育資源裡面download下來的一個教案那這個教案裡面呢告訴我們說讓孩子要去認識他自己的身體的隱私啊或要有這個身體自主權的觀念啊要報告告訴自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10249.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10270.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
如何避開危險的情境呢?有一些示範,然後也有一些故事的部分那我想要先請教次長他裡面一直講說私密部位是不能夠觸碰的喔那所以他就是用這個部偶來做示範說手伸進去之後要什麼樣子的反應但是我想問我們只要保護我們自己的私密部位嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10272.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10293.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
當然也要尊重他人的私密部位但是我想問的是說,所以今天因為他在強調的是說私密部位那我碰臉可不可以?別人碰你的手可不可以?別人碰你的腿可不可以?這屬於私密部位嗎?他有程度不同啊,如果是陌生人當然臉也不給他碰啦如果是爸爸媽媽 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10298.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10312.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
這方面我覺得在親情的這個層面下這方面是應該要告訴他這個是有所區別的我想這個東西就有一個很重要的觀念的改變就是說我們現在在上面的教案都是告訴小孩說你要說不 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10313.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10339.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
所以我們可以從最近的這些案子裡面或是從過去的MeToo的案子裡面來可以看見說不是說不就沒事了不是抵抗不夠激烈就沒事了所以我們應該要告訴孩子是說沒有人經過任何人沒有經過你的同意對是這個身體自主權是這個決定權是在小孩的手上的你沒有碰過你沒有經過我同意你就是不能碰你就是犯錯這件事情才是我們應該要跟小孩子來去建立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10340.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10364.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
現在教案並沒有這些東西我們是不是可以邀請專家學者還有一些民間團體來修正我們的教案提供我們的幼兒園這樣子的老師這樣子的教材才能夠幫我們的孩子建立一個更積極更正確的一個身體的觀念可以嗎這部分是可以的嗎我們可以盡快來處理嗎其實這一個綱要其實也是透過基層的人員跟專家學者一起會上的對但是我們現在產出來的教案就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10365.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10366.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
強化相關的教案準則方面的擬定 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10384.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10402.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
次長也有提到,我們對於親疏遠近應該有所界定但是我從了衛福部的資料,是2022年性侵案的受害者傷害他們的是誰?我們可以看到直系家屬而且可以看到超過半數侵害幼兒的都是熟人 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10404.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10430.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
所以我們現在給的教育其實也是脫離現實的所以這部分請這個次長一定要非常嚴肅的去面對這個問題如何讓我們的孩子能夠真正的保護他自己因為最重要的是我們必須要讓他有這個身體自主權好那我再回來講一下我們的這個幼兒教育的部分抱歉次長再想請教一下就是說這個盡快的話是多盡快啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10432.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10450.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
您說有關於剛才教保綱要等等方面的調修需要一個準備期討論期那我想問一下準備期看起來聽起來要一點時間那教案的部分呢是不是可以怎麼樣盡快去產生這些教案讓幼兒園的老師去使用呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10454.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10472.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
因為教案畢竟這個簽立法動全身也不是說一觸可擊所以需要一些時間來做市長我想民間其實都有一些教案也不錯的教案有些基金會也都有發展這部分是不是可以有關於性平的教案民間有比較卓越的一些教案教材我們值得參採 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10476.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10499.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這個部分我們是不是可以保持聯繫好不好?我們一個月之後來追蹤一下進度好嗎?好,我們跟委員辦公室做一下聯絡好,讓我們知道一下現在進度到底怎麼樣因為這件事情刻不容緩再來就是說我們講到總公共化這件事情我們賴總統即將上任的賴清德總統他是有政見是在講說我們要投資未來世代尤其是0到6歲要增加這個公共化的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10500.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10516.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
但是呢,所以呢,要降低這個師生比,要到1比12所以我們現在其實已經在往這個方向去調整可是呢,我也發現了我們的六都達成率是低於整體的達成率尤其在臺北、新北、桃園、台中 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10517.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10542.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
比例有達成是非常低的那我想喔我也看到新聞報導是有在講就是說還有公幼再減班這完全背離了我們現在的一個政策方向所以我想要知道說我們現在有沒有掌握我們到底有多少的公共化幼兒園正在減招名額而這個名額數是多少那我們有沒有一些配套措施呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10544.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10564.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
公幼先行降低私生比達成提高幼保品質這目標委員擔心的是說我們在公共幼兒園需求量很大尤其都會地區那孩子要進去就很不容易那一下就減招其實我們有一些調控機制比如說桃園新北一些都會區的幼兒園公共的我們就逐年減我們不是一次就達到1比12 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10570.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10596.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
對,但是問題是說我們減招應該說我們今天今天就是有這麼多的小孩要送去這些都會區嘛你減招了這些家長小孩要送去哪裡對不對,所以我們還是必須要有一些策略去把你如果這個班級為了達到這個比例那你是其他地方要去把這個名額補回來你要有一些增班計畫吧不然小孩要去哪裡不可能跨區就讀吧我們在這個區裡面如果說有可資調配的 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10597.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10599.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那我想要問一下增加的名額有大於減招的數量嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10624.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10632.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
增加的名額基本上要容得下不一定要增班但是它容得下比如板橋幼兒園實在是太多了它不能馬上減為1比12我們就讓它先1比14那1比14它會減少收得量一個人所以它附近有可取代的空間我們就讓它維持1比14 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10650.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10651.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
目前公幼是73點多對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10678.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10689.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有些部分就如同委員關心的他人口密集地區一下子沒辦法馬上下來所以到114年我們是定下一個目標值的 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10691.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10693.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
請同仁跟委員保持聯繫 包含教保相關的案例教材一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10709.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10725.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
對,我想要了解你們這個計劃那再來就是說準公幼的部分就是說我們在113年其實也就是要達到這個也希望可以開始去準備這個1比12的這個合作要件跟這些準公幼達成這個合作要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10727.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10743.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
其中有講到就是說這一些准公幼如果有達到的話會給他10到20萬的一個獎勵那沒有達成的會給他一些衍生的成本會由政府來協助可是我也發現他裡面有提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10744.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10764.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
在這個要件裡面他有講到說如果這個配合成本收費數額可以調高到1500元一個月但是呢這113年是一個整備年然後逐步調整那每班至多收24名學生那每位教保員就會照顧12個小孩那我想要知道就是說因為其實以現在來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10766.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10789.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我們現在有一些總工友已經跑在前面了他其實已經事先去把調整老師的薪水年資3到6年就已經調整到36,200元所以多一位老師一年支出就將近50萬兩位老師就將近100萬所以不管是今天為了達到1比12優先配合的元素他不管是增加教保員 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10790.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10791.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
10到20萬的誘因都是非常低,遠遠不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10814.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10833.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
所以基本上等於是我們要總共有的業者自己來吸收這所有成本這其實是不合理的這也會造成這些業者以後就想說那我乾脆不要我就觀望就好看到最後有沒有什麼力度我再來配合所以我覺得這不是一個正確的方式我們是不是可以現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10834.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10851.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
來去合理的因為這個成本去來跟這些：針對這些已經達成總共用1比12的元素來去調整我們的獎勵機制或者是我們可以去調整這個收費的數額在113學年前就做好這些的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10852.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10852.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10874.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10878.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
這部分我們也理解但是有一些元首他是順著降低市政比他不是說5年收15個那今年馬上配合政策變成1比12他也是慢慢順著他的招生的這個情形慢慢下修他不是一步下來的所以我們要給他獎勵連續獎勵他3年 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10903.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10918.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
對,可是我們的獎勵等於是說因為現在聽起來優先提早配合的人他的成本是增加的可是我們給他的獎勵其實是不足的那這樣子到底有未來的業者他們在看這件事情的時候他到底要優先趕快來響應還是他就 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10919.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10930.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
慢慢拖就好了因為准工又有他的相關的合作費用補貼費用有來自政府的部門所以我們希望他降低時薪比簡單講就是說他覺得他能力做得到他就早一點做我們給他多一點獎勵如果他慢一年也沒有關係他在115年內在第三期合作契約範圍內他完成這個期程我們都納入都算數了 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10946.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10968.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
抱歉喔,因為我的時間已經到了喔但是市長我想就是說因為我們其實應該是鼓勵大家我們的總共又應該是盡快達到1比12嘛對不對我們應該是鼓勵要給這些提早來配合的一些獎勵機制嘛對不對這應該是我們希望鼓勵大家盡量去做這件事情可是我覺得現在聽起來這樣子的獎勵機制其實並不足以吸引人啦對,因為其實以他自己的明年會提高就報酬會比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10971.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10999.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11000.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11002.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝張雅玲委員請林一錦委員好 謝謝 謝謝主席 有請次長那我們請次長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11033.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11049.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
準攻第三期即將在8月上路之前本席有諮詢過退場機制跟準攻保護人員薪資的議題所以本席今天還是要持續關注如果孩子就讀的準攻不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11050.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11056.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
續約的規定而退場那孩子的受教權這個議題當然值得關注那這部之前是說會請縣市政府來協調安置學生說這間准公學校確定要退場 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11065.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11082.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那我們就會協調安置到其他評價的幼兒園那如果沒有辦法安置那我們也會演繹說在一定的期間給予合理的協助我是要跟大家請教說如果安置學生到其他評價的幼兒園那會造成幾個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11083.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11106.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
從供需層面來看接受安置學生的幼兒園那原本他的教保服務人員的人力如果沒有增加的情況之下那恐怕他的原本的教保服務人員負擔就會加重那這樣的話你原本就讀的這個孩子跟被安置的孩子都會受到影響那我們怎麼可以與安置的這個幼兒園協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11107.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11111.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
本席提醒有些幼兒園的孩子對於環境、同學、老師是比較敏感所以說如果孩子已經念到大班 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11133.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11133.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
李慧琼教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11155.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11183.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那教育部對於這樣子的狀況有什麼樣的協助的措施那是不是可以依他原本入學的這個收費標準練到畢業那如果說准公幼不符合規定退場那應該會登對私校嘛特別是私幼好 那問題來了那他既然不符合規定那他的私幼可以再繼續經營嗎這個都是我覺得這個都是教育部要對外完整的說明那請次長簡單說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11185.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11203.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
謝謝委員關心准公幼的幼生家長的權利如果准公幼A園在不續約可能是自行不續約或者退場孩子要轉到B園去他權利照走但是因為他有一些適應的問題從半年就要離開讓他強迫他離園這樣也強而所難 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11210.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11215.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
因為這是不可歸則於家長跟孩子的權利所以我們部長在上個禮拜的晨會有特別按照這樣的邏輯去推演對於不可歸則於家長這樣的錯誤的我們要給他更多的幫助也就是說他沒有辦法馬上離遠的我們就給他一些補助補貼到他畢業原則上我記得是半年補助到學期結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11239.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11247.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
在原本的原所在原本的原所那可是原本的原所他如果退場了他就是變私有了他不是准工了 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11248.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11266.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
但是這是在我們的單書裡面會給予多餘的保障因為家長是善意的第三人所以我們應該給他衝打反這合理這個邏輯就是應該說准工他退場他不跟政府合作他就變私誘可是我現在的問題是說這個私誘既然是不符合我們的規定這個規定是准工用的規定不過他不符合規定這個私誘會繼續經營下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11277.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11279.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
現在因為縣市公幼招生因為受到少子化的衝擊再加上準公幼的申請增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11296.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11324.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
公幼招生招不滿這是很多縣市發生的問題那可是我們要擴大公共教保管幼兒教保公共化那我覺得就應該要投資更多的資源在公幼裡面所以本席看到說准公幼每學期都可以申請設備、課程教學、輔導補助但是公幼的設施設備補助三年只能申請一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11325.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11349.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
所以這是不是有經費排擠的疑慮這是一個問題另外當然我樂見我們公幼在今年的寒暑假我們有平價的這個延長照顧的服務那想請教說今年公幼寒假的留院的實施狀況如何那就要不知道有沒有掌握有多少比例的孩子有使用到這項的服務那當然我也關心說今年7月我們將要推動150個 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11352.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11353.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
謝謝委員關心公幼的設備費以前是三年申請一次的 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11371.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11396.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那剛才也有多位委員同時建議我們再來盤點我們的資源如果有急需補助的我覺得應該不受限於這三年一次應該是要這樣這是合理的那另外公幼的留托今年的暑假1月就開始寒假寒假寒假開始寒假所托出大概87%的公立幼兒園已經開辦留園 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11400.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11401.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11421.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11421.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11444.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11451.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
對於家長有很多的便利所以以後對於公幼的招生量的提升是有幫助因為法務品質就比較好那接下來想要跟你討論說現在有公立幼兒園出現這個半班編制的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11459.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11466.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
依照現行幼照法第16條規定（我們兩歲幼兒班級上限是16人（所以師生比是1比8（8歲幼兒班級上限是30（當然師生比是1比15（現在幼照法是這樣規定（可是以3歲以上的班級為例（現在正常運作是一班有兩個（ |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11484.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11488.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
因為幼兒園的孩子其實沒有很高的自治人 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11512.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11524.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
自理能力一個老師不夠那對 那如果一個老師 像說他要去上廁所或者他有其他緊急的事情要離開這個教學現場你放15個孩子在那我覺得這個本來有兩個 本來一班有兩個那我另外一個還可以cover那你如果說有給半班的編制那只剩一個 那一個老師是完全不能離開現場所以我覺得這個問題變得很嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11540.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11549.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
這個我沒有發現南部某一個縣市他因為預算不足還怎樣把班級比如說50個他就弄一個45個一班30個兩個老師合理那另外剩下15個他變成半班的人在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11557.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11586.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我是覺得這是萬萬不可實行的方式那當然我覺得教育部有這個監督之責那當然我們要調整師生比1比12無非就是說要讓孩子受到更好的照顧可是如果剛剛這樣的情況他誤用了這個1比15的方式所以是不是邀請市長來要求各縣市政府就是說每班至少要配置到兩名的教保人員不能給所謂的半班的編制 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11587.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11591.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們應該會給他一個行政指導這樣的誤用1比15的這個計算式其實是千千萬萬不可啦好那另外想跟你談喔剛剛也有委員提到今天是4月10號那剛好教改已經30年那30年經過政黨輪替所以很多的政策跟施政其實也絕非民進黨所為 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11614.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11641.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
可是我們是執政黨所以我們就要虛心接受各方的這個指教那面對教改我相信教育部也聽很多意見那當年四大訴求還沿遊在耳我那時候也有去參加遊行落實小班小校廣設高中大學推動教育現代化制定教育基本法秦院次長你要怎麼看這30年教育的發展那可是由媒體的下標是寫這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11643.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11667.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
教改三十年,俄國反世你有沒有這樣做過?是有人提出說在三十年的教改這樣的歷程下來經過不同政黨的輪替那目前由本黨來執政我們有責任義務延續這之前所累積的相關的弊病來做一下檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11668.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11671.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
410教改有它的時代背景那時候產業正朝向資本密集的發展那也在民主化的初期 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11690.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11712.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我覺得現在當然廣設高中大學這一點當然是批評的最厲害的地方有人說大學太多讓學歷的貶值有說國家鼓勵一些不需要讀大學的人來讀大學有人說大學太多那面對少子女化的問題就變成相當棘手可是我還是認為這個知識的普及對台灣國家的發展絕對有好處 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11719.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11737.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
當然我們不外乎 肉眼可見私校退場的問題或是部分人士對菁英教育的想像可是我覺得我們肉眼沒有辦法看到的價值是什麼是國民的邏輯思辨的能力權力的意識跟人文的素養提升這些都非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11738.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11738.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11761.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11790.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
對面對這個30年教改我們當然要檢討到底哪裏可以所以我們私校退考也是因應這個因而生那可是我還是認為說這個沙子化衝擊對改革其實也是一個轉機啦就是說我們怎麼樣追求高教育品質的提升跟讓我們的孩子有更豐富的教育資源教育精緻化那我覺得也要進一步追求高教公共化所以我覺得這個未來再跟次長一起來努力好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11790.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11791.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
有請次長有請林次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11818.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11820.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
市長好,市長有聽過壯世代嗎?有,您的書好像有寫過 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11827.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11855.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那個書你有看過嗎沒有全部翻閱沒有看過有概念謝謝那這裡也跟你請願啦現在有壯世代是指55家啦55歲上現在有800萬人啦那這個800萬的壯世代需要第三人生大學那首先這個我不在講老人的事情我現在講的是年輕人的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11857.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11883.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
不曉得教育部有沒有看到這個問題搶救下一代的教育那教育我們教育的目的無非就是培養他們未來要往什麼方向發展嘛對不對要去的地方要去的地方他們未來在什麼戰場上面來發揮他所長那跟這個現在在校等一下上一頁這個明年畢業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11885.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11912.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
大學生一腳跨出校園就踏入了什麼?踏入什麼社會?超高齡社會就是五個人就一個人65歲那當這個孩子30歲的時候也就2034年臺灣一半人口超過了50歲當這個孩子40歲的時候應該是人生主力最後主力的時候2045年這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11915.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11927.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
臺灣一般人口超過60歲那意思就是什麼我們現在培育的孩子、大學生他一輩子都在什麼社會高齡社會裡面所以高齡社會是他們的戰場 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11928.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11934.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
委員關切的是未來的環境 未來學的一部分那委員看到未來壯世代很可能會形成一個阻力對於現在的年輕人即將畢業的在過往以前我們都沒有考慮到他們所面臨的處境 戰場 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11951.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11972.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
現在委員看到了我非常地佩服是 那個教育部現在因為說教育目的一定是要目標嘛要培養他未來在什麼什麼舞台什麼戰場上面所以這一點為什麼我要去談這個的社會這不是一個這是世代的問題世代共同的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11974.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11992.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那現在這個教育部緣木求雨不如退而結網這句話什麼意思緣木求雨這個次長什麼意思就是去手上找魚就如結網來捕魚對所以就是方法不對嘛方法不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11994.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12013.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
現在針對剛才這樣一個環境我想教育部最近這幾個事情都是教育部的重中之重很重要的因為少子化所以大學要退場大學要退場這一個就是說明星人一定是越來越少 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12015.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12034.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
但是呢我們現在原木這個木就是說我們一直想要從這個越來越少的市場裡面來求教育的發展這叫原木求雨你看的我不曉得這個大學退場少子化教育部有什麼因應之策 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12035.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12038.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
看著他倒這樣子有沒有什麼方法可以擋住他?因為這一個假設教育是一個市場論那他因為缺乏競爭力比如說失職什麼不夠財務不健全他退場離場 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12052.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12078.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
當然我們安頓好師生的這個狀態之下我覺得這是一個比較光明的教育的性格但是看起來就是這個浪潮是擋不住的是擋不住的那個遲早就是一家一家會倒啦 倒得越來越少第二個就是大學的USR委 所有大學USR的評審我看了很多的案例大部分都在做鼓勵年輕人 年輕學子去做社區的服務嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12080.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12093.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
社區都是老人,所以基本上動力都是在年輕人,老人是被服務的再來就談地方創生,鼓勵年輕人到窮鄉僻壤去創業 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12098.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12098.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12119.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12140.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我們的教育怎麼看著他們,然後我們現在當然,所以為什麼這叫退而結往這麼龐大未來三分之一人口掌握台灣的智庫,掌握經驗,掌握財富的人,我們視為無用的人力我們教育要培養國家的人力,但是一直想要從這個叫做緣木求雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12141.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12154.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
這個要結成一個網這網不是世代對立這網是世代和諧共榮但是我們往往只看到一邊所以要在這裡談的就是我們要重啟這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12156.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12181.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
這些人也不是說你現在看他就沒路影啊就老人就是這樣因為我現在跟各部會溝通我們大部分都把視為65歲以後只剩下兩件事情啦游山玩水 寒你弄孫 其他的都沒有啊就是沒有所有的教育部 所有的部會的政策幾乎都是這樣子的處理但是這裡未來會佔台灣人口一半欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12183.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12206.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
完全不看這些事情所以我們要重新定位定義所以這些人我們要給他好的教育根本就叫做第三人生大學第三人生大學跟現在常常講我們有啊我們也有啊樂齡大學對不對社區大學有些要松年大學有的沒的這很多的啊怎麼會沒有在做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12209.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12225.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
這個那個次長認為那些做的是以休閒健康為主的熱領基本上就熱領跟我們現在的就是要把它作為重要的人力的落差是非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12227.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12243.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
所以現在當然部長也有承諾要來規劃第三人生大學我們現在也有在研討也有在跟中生教育師也有在溝通我也看到他們努力但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12244.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12271.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我看到整個的部還是會回到一個這些老人的事情就是終身教育師的事情跟其他的部會沒有關係有的跟高人教育也有關對,跟高人,所以高教師要下來是他好像,高教師還是會認為說這個跟他思維,他們就是服務那18歲的年輕學子然後呢,這個老人就是,老人的事情跟他無關這種觀念,陳固的觀念有時候要突破這個思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12271.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12287.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
所以這件事情我想一直都有這種看法但是因為體制部門的劃分往往又回到原來的舊的方法的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12289.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12307.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
所以往往就無疾而終所以我想難得我們經過這些溝通部長、次長也都有看到這一刻我們是不是有件事情可以請上面的長官下來組成一個小組親自的督導呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12308.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12322.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
成立第三人生大學的一個規劃小組由次長專責的督導來部內相關的個資用一種新的思維然後要以同樣辦大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12324.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12347.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
其實這個某一方面剛才提到第三人生大學可以救這些現在大學因為少子化這麼龐大現在有800萬人想進大學想進這個大學因為他最大遺憾就是沒進大學那這樣子如果從一個教育投資的觀點來講這麼大的市場怎麼會看到我如果是生意人 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12348.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12357.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
這個企業家的話看到這麼大的市場一定馬上趕快但是我們的官員都會用這種體制來做很多的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12359.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12362.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
國外大學、日本的經濟大學、廣島大學都有真正的學制鼓勵高齡者和研究所 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12381.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12404.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
現在也不是說制定一個需要一個很詳細的計畫不是只有制定辦法這個要谷調查學校的意願鼓勵公私立學校的參與你用什麼政策來鼓勵來啟動那包括當然課程這一個不是用他不是跟第一人生跟同樣的一些課程他不同年齡18歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12406.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12435.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那16歲開始進大學學習的跟60歲學的東西一定不一樣他們所念的經濟學一定也不一樣所念的即使是同樣的學本一定方法也不一樣教學的重點清華大學他有個共學院共縣所學的學院他是年齡比較高的人在念所以最後還是可不可以這個次長可不可以剛才講的那個重點這最重要的就是要很認真有而且要宣誓 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12436.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12460.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
請教育部做這個宣誓意義就非凡告訴大家第三人生需要進大學好不好第三人生大學我們來做一個這個規劃來請我們所有的單位來一起來努力提出可行的方案所以市長有做這個承諾我們會成立專案小組請各個我們請中間師跟高教師一起進來高教師也要一起進來好的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12464.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12470.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
好,謝謝,謝謝吳淳澄委員。好,我們接下來請林倩琦委員質詢。嗯,呃,謝謝,呃,朝委。呃,我是不是可以請次長?好,有請次長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12491.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12493.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
公共化就是公家出錢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12507.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12528.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
公家投入了一些錢我這邊一個建議其實這樣一個主題當然是在一個政策主張當中但是可能對一般民眾在查詢上有一些不同的概念跟想法所以像我們在查的時候先打了幼教公共化後來只有教育部的一篇 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12529.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12555.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
後來我們就用不同的查詢方式．打進了幼教公共化之後．有27,200項．看起來很多人在做．後來再打進幼兒園公共化．又出現了6萬多項．所以對於公共化的講法．您部裡面是不是要再做一個整理．讓一般民眾知道你們談的是這件事情． |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12558.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12576.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
公共化是由教育普及化的概念公共化的概念所以公家不得不出錢那再來就是包含準公幼準公幼其實政府也有出錢但是呢因為我們出的錢是補助家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12577.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12590.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以那個在我們所有的公共化的相關的幼兒園的建置裡面它還是歸屬在私幼的一部分但它跟我們是合作夥伴的關係所以我們稱為純公幼 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12593.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12611.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
公共化的概念包含了先前在推的幾項跟現在新的社區互助等等這樣子的事物補助的對象又有一些差異所以這邊先建議在公共化這個層面上是不是可以部裡面來公告一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12613.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12633.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
正式的說法讓大家在查的時候不會有不同的落差對我們而言如果從一個部落的講法來講應該就像部落的分享共志似乎要達到這樣一個目標但是呢看起來又在這個署長對不起那個次長這邊講起來好像就是政府有出錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12634.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12660.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那不管是出錢補助這個園區呢或者是補助了父母或者是補助那個對象上還有很大的差異所以對一般民眾來講我想這樣一個政策主張有一點複雜所以我這邊提出一個建議是不是部裡面這邊也對公共化這樣一個詞有一些解釋那當然我們透過很多不同的管道已經知道公共化的一些意思但是就你們的政策主張如果能夠講一句大家就明白的話可能就不會有那麼多不同的想像 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12661.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12688.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
這是我一個建議那第二點就是我們在查這個公共化過去制定這樣子政策的時候我們一直聽到了這個少子化因為少子化其實我覺得那個現在我在社會上整體聽到少子化的議題而引起很多的這個問題那大家現在要來解決少子化的問題那投入了很多不同的政策那所以想跟這個次長請教那在幼教公共化這個部分解決了少子化的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12690.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12699.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
其實少子化的問題我們中央部會分10個中央部會在努力解決那幼教公共化是其中的一支所以如果就這一支的話減輕父母的負擔我們用幼教公共化 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12706.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12726.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
解決青年就業可能勞動部解決青年創業可能有經濟部反視對於青年父母有一些幫助的我們都稱為解決少子女化對策計畫之一所以在教育部這個部分目前推起來是有點是不是到了一個要檢討跟有點自愛難行的狀況我們是重要的一支 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12730.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12751.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
其實我知道你們很重要但是就目前為止我早上也聽了幾位委員那個少子化的狀態其實也還沒有改變那不是說你們有沒有績效啦而是說那這整個計畫項目那就教育部的這個部分是不是要對於這原始的初衷也做一個檢視所以少子化因為我們幼教公共化有得到真正很多的一個解決嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12752.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12752.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
我們可以為一個書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12774.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12776.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
又叫公共化公共化的這個政策我們對減輕年輕父母的負擔的確是很大的注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12783.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12806.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
我相信這個部裡面一定有相關的資訊所以這個部分是不是送到我們辦公室讓我了解一下這幾年有一個走向在我們檢視幼教公共化的這個部分數量上就應該是部裡面想要達到的這個我們可以量化出來的數量上好像是增進了但是我們後來發現有一個比較弔詭的地方其實也可能是很普遍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12807.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12817.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
很多政策實施起來都會變成集中在都會區這個城鄉差距似乎在目前的一個狀態上好像變得比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12818.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12842.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
至少是我們是從這個數字裡面看來因為六都的兩口都佔了六成這很合理的這樣很合理的分佈那次長我可以請教一下那對於這個目前您看到這樣城鄉的差距就我們來看是有城鄉差距那您覺得這個現象是繼續存在你們就依照這樣一直進行下去還是說在城鄉差距的這個部分城鄉差距您指的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12843.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12844.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
所以你覺得目前這個成項的差距是OK的? |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12859.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12866.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
目前我們對於全國所有的公共化幼兒園的部件我們是很均衡的在發展就你們的數量上是均衡的但是在實際的成效上就算人數集中好像現在也有一些幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12876.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12876.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12893.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12909.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
以前是一位籃球現在是現在撞籤率大概都有八九成兩歲專班是比較搶手那聽起來好像是有降低嘛對不對就是對於那個控額的一個需求是有降低吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12910.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12911.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
都會區的幾乎都是滿額 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12935.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12936.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
因為偏鄉地區也需要公共化的幼兒園雖然他沒有滿額但是他真的有這個需求我們也要繼續去 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12952.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12953.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
目前看不出公共化幼兒園有退場的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12972.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12990.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
公共化委員很確定不會碰到退場機制嗎?沒有啦,他很熱門你保證這件事嗎?我早上聽委員在質詢他其實有把數量算出來,少子化也沒有解決然後已經講到公共化的退場機制退場機制是准公投,跟我們合作的跟我們簽契約的 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12994.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12997.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
本來是政府整體投入的,然後現在你就跟民間簽訂契約那等到這個民間這個可能很熱門的這個時段過了之後呢那你們要退場你就叫他們退場了,是這樣子嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13018.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13020.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
如果委員願意聽我詳述是這樣准公共幼兒園我們是政府的夥伴關係目前全國有1994元數列跟他合作那我們補貼家長一些教保的費用好像補貼教長這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13035.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13037.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
本來是政府全面投入或是政府部分投入再加上政府可能有夥伴的關係但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13062.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13072.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
這幾個政策到最後當這個政策的熱度不再的時候呢那後面的解決方式感覺都非常的粗糙包括大學的會長之事我們是很細膩在處理右架品質的提升本席在學校就不認為你們有很細緻啊我碰到的事情都很粗糙如果你要聽的話我們會後還可以再討論我們願聽其想 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13082.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13106.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
好 那個比較我這邊有一個比較具體的東西就是在社區互助室跟部落互助室的這個教保服務在原住民部落裡面你們說師資必須要有這個母語認證或者是這個高中以上的這個師資但是我要強調一點是不好意思那在部落裡面有很多長者或者是壯世代好了他們的語言能力都非常強可是你應該不會叫他們來參加這個語言認證吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13108.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13109.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我們探討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13133.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13151.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
部落的幼教品質的師資也不可以有所鬆懈所以我們訂這一個是一般的標準高中畢業人但是原住民部落的生活不是這個樣子所以可不可以請次長多了解一下我們了解一下最主要不要剝奪長輩能夠傳承文化的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13154.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13157.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我相信你們是有談過但是我這邊提出來的是很多人有這樣一個條件有這樣條件的師資在你們師資也缺乏還有那個教保員也缺乏的一個情況下你如何能夠善用這些可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13181.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13205.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我這邊提出來給你們做個參考好不好還是研擬一下然後給本席這邊一個報告好嗎好 理解好那這個我知道你們的這個數額在這幾年做了蠻多的就依照你們這個量化的目標好像都達到而且有些你們說提前達到了但是真的數大就是美嗎所以這幾個建議啦有一些人在針對這幾年的這個政策做了一些討論第一個是質量不平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13206.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13229.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我不多說了那成相差距是我所看到的然後經營的困難可能他原本是自己獨資沒有問題然後跟政府合作了可能就有一些規範到最後變成他原本可以自由的去處理的事情那現在有很多的規範那我覺得在國家介入這個所謂公共化的角色當中可不可以盡少把這些單位變成工具人的使用就是你要怎麼合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13230.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13252.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
可不可以永續而不是說在這段期間我們一起來合作愉快績效達到了結果熱度過了之後大家通通都退場這樣子工具人的一個使用概念會讓我們覺得國家對很多事情是不公平的那你乾脆直接說那個又叫國家化就好了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13253.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13272.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
那我不知道他是不是真的達到了公共化可是國家化有點這個概念我可能不了解準公幼的政策我們逐年增加合作的元所今年可能會突破到2000所所以你說逐年退場那不存在我不知道會不會因為是未來的事情如果他不守法規那當然會另起退場 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13273.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13295.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
但是呢我們合作的夥伴是越來越多他們是認同的那個數量上雖然看起來是美麗的但是效益上我今天其實在報告裡面然後跟我這些問題上我是沒有看到的所以在效益上你們怎麼樣去評估跟怎麼詮釋委員您可能要看一下這個報告這寫得很清楚我之前一直在追啊我有看到這個報告但是原鄉的問題你全部都不懂啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13296.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13309.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
你對教保品質跟教保人員的專業性你們要多一點把關啦我們是很把關的所以你剛才說要放鬆我告訴你原住民部落的問題你還是告訴我們一般一般一般是原住民部落更要把關所以你是把哪一部分的關教保品質以你的定義嗎是那你現在跟我講原住民部落有多少的你們合作的總公托 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13325.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13354.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
準公托目前它不叫準公托那叫做部落社區教保中心所以現在有多少個是多少個總共有13個才13個那你知道全台灣的年輕人還有國小的婦幼還有飛雲麗幼兒園還有部落式的教保中心是嗎部落式的教保中心我剛才也談了重點就是你的實質上在部落這邊一直有困難嘛那個教委不好意思我站不起來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13354.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13370.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
好 這個問題我非常重視那我期待這個教育部不要在意我今天最後講一件事情不要在意這種一般一般性然後反正原住民都聽不懂的這樣一個概念給本席回復我現在要講的是那個國際我不知道那個國際處的代表有沒有過來然後仲規司依照我拿的這個名單你們是有代表的好 那個仲規司負責原名單然後國際部國際處負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13382.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13410.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
國際班我在第一次質詢的時候是不是提出請以這個國際生的規格STEM來規劃原名專班或是你們要稱原名班都沒問題這中間最大的差異我想先請問一下委員所針對這個問題我們再深入了解再跟您回覆好不好是 但是最重要的是你們給原住民一個月只有五千塊給國際生一個月只有一萬塊然後不要跟本席搪塞 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13411.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13411.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
有請次長有請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13444.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13450.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
次長武安關於今天這個很重要的主題公共化教保我有三個問題然後連帶的是三個訴求第一個比較簡單一點我想那個次長應該知道我們公幼一直在找待課老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13458.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13458.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13474.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13478.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這個次長知道嗎?縣委員反映這個問題,我們了解一下是不是真的有此況所以次長應該不知道為什麼會這樣我跟你講,我研究了之後是因為你們的教保服務委員條例施行協議第9條第5項如果是3個月以上,未滿3個月問題可能還少但是有很多代理可能時間比較短如果未滿一天的話,你們的算法居然是把這個4萬多 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13499.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13519.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
除以31天他每天都在工作再除以8小時換算出一個時薪170塊的那這個遠低於我們的國家基本工資有幾個縣市比較有良心一點還會以基本工資給可是有一些縣市比如說我們看到的新北市就照你們這個規定給 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13520.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13520.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13537.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13553.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那我們就用日新計那再除以8個小時很可能就出現委員你所關心的這一個問題那如果代理半天的話那他時薪不就1百7了嗎那我想這個問題怎麼解決你們去研究好不好那我想就是要即刻檢討這個薪資標準讓現實中不會出現就是比基本工資還低的這個國家苛刻就是功力脫鈾的代理教師好嗎好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13564.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13564.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
公共幼兒園不是公共化吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13578.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13597.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
目前我們還是承認他為我們合作的夥伴他是一個評價機制但不是公共化那您剛剛講了公共化的定義是政府補助我是對你這個定義有個問號啦因為照你這個講法我們全國私立大學都是公共化了因為他都拿政府的補助嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13598.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13621.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
高校公共化我們像我們副總統他也是認為說補貼私立大學學生的學費那仍然朝向高校公共化朝向公共化但還不是公共化因為我個人在副團的時候我們當年是在推就是這個幼教跟長照公共化公共化就一個國際上有三個核心的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13622.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13637.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
第一個就是評價要貴的話就不用公共化第二個優質第三個普及化因為你要評價又要優質要普及化私利的要盈利就幾乎做不到私利如果市場做得到政府不用介入嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13638.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13660.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
因為私立做不到市場做不到所以政府才會介入那所以從目前介入的標準教育部其實是有定義的你們自己定義也是如同你剛講公立加非營利才是公共化那從你們這個定義的公共化你來看到到目前為止這邊到111學年度其實比例我有直接算給你因為時間的緣故 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13662.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13679.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
公共化幼兒園的佔比其實還是只有三分之一就是遠遠的低於我們的期待所以到目前為止我們先不要看六都我們就全部來看幼兒園的公司比仍然是3比7 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13681.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13707.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
剛剛林怡瑾召委所問的也是我所關切的因為你們投入資源的這個所謂的準公托但是其實不是真的公共化的他遇到一個不夠優質的問題所以才會有準公托的所謂的退場機制那我想就是說我們先來看準公托要達到這個公共化難度真的很高那回到我們真正的這個公共化教育部有沒有一個長程的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13707.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13732.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
到底時間是怎麼樣?你們的具體做法是什麼?跟委員討論這一件事對準公幼這個合作的這個夥伴們我基本上我們還是給予肯定那畢竟他們當然沒有不肯定他們嘛要肯定啊所以他也達到了一個半公共化的這個目的減輕了家長的負擔這方面我們是有一起在努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13733.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13757.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
檢清家長負擔當然是好的可是達到優質這個目標真的很難我舉一些數字來看因為你們的報告裡面我真的覺得還是有點避重就輕就是剛剛林怡瑾、昭緯問的跟我問的現在要問的東西就是你們報告中沒有看到怎麼做到優質特別是這個準公托的部分那我們來看一下數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13758.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13776.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
根據調查為什麼家長還是要去公幼因為學費便宜師資穩定不會違規六都裡面公幼的所謂的準公幼的違規率是三分之一當家長發現說我去這個看起來好像比較便宜有補貼的可是呢經常沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13777.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13802.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
沒有禁用有教保人員資格的還超收學生巧立名目收費如果連六都都有三分之一曾經發生違規被裁罰的紀錄所以你要做到評價他做到了普及這快速普及可是這個優質的話難度非常的高所以我想這是目前我們一個很大的問題就是我們的教保的理想 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13803.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13818.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
不是只有評價跟普及還要真正的優質所以我覺得你只有兩條路可以走第一個你提高那個真公幼就是公幼跟非營利提高你如果做不到的話你這個準公幼2.0就應該要把關然後處理剛剛林議員講的那個退場的機制等等你如果不走這兩條路那我們教育部就失職了 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13827.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13855.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
就是用一個你看很多我已經搞不清楚這都到底各自代表什麼了所以這兩條路中間我覺得就是說教育部要痛下決心你到現在已經做一段時間了因為如果就盈利你補貼他他做不到優質因為他畢竟就是要盈利嘛如果他不盈利的話他為什麼要開這家就是幼兒園所以準公幼我們看到的這邊有多少人來問就是說薪資沒有到兩萬八對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13859.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13864.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
請問那個那個次長如果他在齁 准公幼一個月薪水零兩萬八對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13866.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13887.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
總工幼目前的薪資已經31200塊了對 所以還是有人在問這個問題顯然現實上他基本上就是被東扣西扣然後沒有符合據說教育部的規定那教保人員薪資被苛扣在準工幼是非常平常的那我們整理了準工幼現況的真實案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13889.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13907.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
有些地方像社工回捐一樣要求繳回部分現金機構先轉到教保員賬戶然後年資一律從第一年起算然後呢就故意跟他簽三年的約三年後重新簽約年資歸零還有呢就不再給加班費然後全勤獎勵取消 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13908.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13929.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
各式各樣．還有用新地址立案．教保人員年資全歸零．還有勞健保．低薪高報．以符合主管機關．就是教育部教育局的薪資規定．但時拿比較低的薪資．所以這個亂象重生．所以我們剛剛講的違規．很可能只是低估．我想教育部有一個殺手鍵． |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13931.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13943.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
你看一下衛福部怎麼對準公托如果違反勞基法就請他退場那我想請問次長教育部有沒有相關的規定剛剛很多做法都違反勞基法了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13943.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13963.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
不管是哪一個單位違反勞基法幾乎不完全這是重大違規當然不得列入我們合作對象好 那不得列入那可不可以請教一部民文化因為衛福部這一點是有民文化那針對最需要去管理的既然得到政府的相關補助那違反勞基法就太說不過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13966.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13985.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
是不是可以把准公幼原所違反勞基法納入相關的退場規範裡面呢?這個次長可不可以答應呢?好,舉凡所有的違法措施我們都不列入考慮啦好,那特別要講勞基法但是有一個比例的原則比如說那老師上課遲到他也是違規嘛交通車右轉這也是違規啦老師上課遲到 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13993.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14019.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
不是我們勞基法要規範的方法對我們來講對教保品質也是有所維護那所以你這個要講清楚我剛剛給你看的為什麼衛福部要特別舉違反勞動基準法因為那個是很重要的嘛你很多就是因為違反勞基法才會出現虐童的這些事情嘛因為他不身負荷那所以我想你這個部分不要講說違反規定規定太多了可不可以清楚把違反勞基法放在你的準公托相關的退場規定裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14022.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14046.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
好 我們嚴厲把他納入嚴厲好嗎 因為我想這是最基本的對家長的保障因為這樣品質才能夠得到保障否則大家還是去擠公托最要求是合理的啦對 所以我今天講的三個您都有提到可以第一個 即刻檢討我剛剛講的公幼代理教師低於基本工資這個是你們的規定下產生的結果那第一個這個部分應該很快是不是可以一個月給我報告第一點可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14050.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14051.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
謝謝次長,一起加油啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14078.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14090.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝發言委員次長請回好 那我們接下來先處理臨時提案今天由委員提出臨時提案總計有四案我們先請議事院宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14091.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14118.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
提案有鑒於教育部與衛福部於3月12日人手稽查《財團法輪中華民國兒童福利聯盟人教基金會》教育部列出四項方面缺失﹐包含內部控制董事會監察人與人事制度﹐並要求人們二週內提出檢討改善報告﹐但董事有應迴避而未規必行事。監察人未遴選﹐皆屬於已發生無法改善。藉請教育部依照《財團法輪》相關規定何處﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14120.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14138.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
另請教育部針對兒童所提改善情形於一個月內向立法院教育文化委員會提出書面報告．而規請民意僅無配意。第二案,查過去兒少法實施過程中,校園中如發生符合兒少法通報要求的要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14139.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14158.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
因未服務兒童及少年保護通報與分級分類處理及調查辦法．相關通報將會回歸校園進行行政調查．然因過去機制中沒有要求校園的調查結果．要回送社政機關進行裁罰．故實際上即會發生就出現即便教育行政端． |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14159.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14180.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
對事件調查事實確認．也作出依交易法規的處分．既過停聘解聘不續聘．但因為社政機關對相關調查毫無所惜．更遑論作出兒少權法的裁罰．最直接的影響就是在社政體系經兒少法裁罰後．能透過公告加害人姓名． |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14180.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14203.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
讓一般的家長能藉由查詢來確認接觸孩子的成年人是否曾有兒少法裁罰紀錄．但在校園中即便加害者行為已經符合兒少法裁罰的標準．也會因為設任機關未追蹤或裁罰．形成家長們在查詢時的盲區．經過曾培餘辦公室近半年與威福部教育部跨部會討論． |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14205.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14220.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
目前相關標準作業流程雖已修正．然為使相關制度能夠更完整．也讓過往可能漏接的個案受到應有裁罰．也要求教育部應對未來在校園事件中．如何強化通報窗口．對兒少法違法樣態認知敏感度． |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14223.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14236.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
從源頭避免個案漏接．進行研議．並配合衛福部之補救措施．請各地方教育機關將忍處行政法法2 條的三年時效內．未經設政機關裁罰的調查屬實校園兒少法通報個案．提供設政單位重新檢視． |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14242.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14260.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
前述經濟作法與朝鮮屬實但未經兒少法裁罰案件提供狀況之書面報告．以3個月內提供立法院教育與文化委員會提案人陳培宇．屬於郭益勤．吾會議李瑾琳倩琪目前亞洲被資格在臺灣南南 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14262.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14284.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
對暴發失能顯保障不足的爭議．引起社會各界關注．但不僅只是國家代表隊選手與職員需要保險．每位職業運動國家代表隊選手都是從小培育．持續練習訓練才有今天的成就．因此每位學生選手都該有保險保障．現行國民體育法體育署定定之全國級賽事補助辦法． |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14286.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14314.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
．要求主辦單位投保公共意外責任保險．健康保險或傷害保險．投保健康保險或傷害保險者．每一輩保險人之保險金額．不得低於300萬元．常見的賽前熱身期間．受傷沒有涵蓋在內．讓選手參賽時承受受傷風險．一段受傷將為自己家庭．帶來沉重的負擔．甚至因經濟不足以負荷．可以進行即時治療及後續復健． |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14316.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14327.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
影響學生選手的恢復狀況及未來發展是有所聞．為提振我國體育實力．並保障學生選手免於風險．進行教育部體育署盤點各級學校學生．選手參與全國性賽事的各項狀況．並參考美國NCAA的經驗．委託專家學者進行學生運動員設計． |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14340.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14350.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
是和保險商品之研究於一個月內提出相關書面報告致本委員會提案人陳培芸和新淳﹑林曙仁、郭益晴、吳佩儀﹑林盈瑾、林倩琦 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14353.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14376.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
第4案幼兒園才半班編制班上警﹐以為教保服務人員﹐亦僅招收一半的幼兒人數﹐雖未違法﹐卻導致使我國幼教品質堪憂﹐就讀幼兒園階段﹐孩子們自理能力有限﹐教保服務人員需付出加倍心力看顧﹐無論學生數多寡﹐每班至少配置二位 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14376.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14402.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
教保服務人員才可能符合最基本的安全需求．否則若單一教保服務人員內急需如廁．又或者暫時離開班級．恐造成孩子們照顧空窗．作為我國教育最高主管機關．教育部應都促並攜手地方政府．勿採取半班編制．落實對幼兒園每班．至少維持二名教保． |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14410.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14427.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
好,我們提案人有沒有要補充說明的?我們先處理第一案,第一案提案人郭玉琴不在,聯署人有配意跟...郭玉琴在,不好意思,要不要說明? |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14431.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14454.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
這個部分應該教育部這邊沒有問題應該就沒問題OK好那教育部這裡OK好那這案我們第一案就招案通過好那第二案提案人陳培瑜有沒有補充說明跟教育部討論過應該是可以依照這個配合對嗎教育部這邊應該沒有問題招案通過好我們配合跟設政單位來聯絡謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14456.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14457.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
提案人何新淳﹑陳培宇委員補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14468.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14495.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
教育部好像有說有時間要修正要不要請教育部先說明好 那我們請次長好 我們是不是徵求委員同意我們在由教育部主辦的全國性賽事的各項狀況參考美國NCAA的經驗委託專家學者進行學生運動員設計商業保險商品的研究三個月內提出報告對 改三個月嘛一個月改三個月 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14496.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14496.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14525.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14537.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
好那第3案我們就修正通過好第4案第4案提案人是本席那市長有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14539.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14557.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
好 我們配合辦理好 謝謝那我們第4案就招案通過好 那我們提我們臨時提案處理完畢那我們接下來我們請對 我們各提案如果有委員要補簽我們請在這邊來補簽然後我們議事人員會詳細登載在議事錄接下來我們進行繼續質詢我們再來請李坤成委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14576.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14576.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
謝謝主席 有請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14583.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14607.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
市長好 這個辛苦了大家都很關心公共化幼兒園還有準公幼的私生比的問題請教一下市長公共化幼兒園我看你們的資料是從112年8月開始私生比要從1比15降到1比12到了目前為止公共化幼兒園的私生比1比12有73%達標 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14610.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14623.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
預計何時可以全部達標?114年那這個準公幼呢?15年為什麼會晚一年?因為當時貴院、大院也建議我們逐年調降公幼先行 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14625.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14652.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
先公後失先公後失那准公幼基本上啦准公幼基本上現在因為這個政府也一直在推廣那很多私幼也都轉型成准公幼所以我們也在關心這個師生比的問題啦那所以說這預計要到這個115學年度是才能達到1比12因為現在2000所准公幼加入我們合作這個範圍因為你如果降得很快第一個老師不容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14653.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14668.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
會讓你培育對阿 老師的問題啦我覺得就是老師的問題那你們沒有辦法跟這個公共化幼兒園就是一起在這個114年開始啦對阿 所以這個老師的問題老師不夠這個是一個目前一個最大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14670.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14681.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
按照您的目標,有機會在115年達到?有機會,我們每年的培育大概4000個幼教系的、幼保系的畢業生所以預計在115年達到就對了我們希望能夠達標 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14684.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14699.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
現在大家除了師生筆在關心之外那也關心到準公共幼兒園他的一個退場的機制準公幼當然是希望是他評價但是我們也希望他優質這個是一起的這公共化的目標對啊這是我目標那這個我有看到說你們這個真正的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14706.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14731.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
4月底會提出來這個退場機制是那所以現在在討論就是草案已經快成熟快要定案了那我有看到一點其他委員也有在關心就是說這個有關退場機制其中有一點是說這個已經認定屬於重大違法而且這個是對待虐待幼兒的這個事件這個是要屬於行為人是屬於負責人還有員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14733.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14747.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
這才是算是退場機制其中一個條件那不是說我們一般以為說這個因為副主任跟院長教保員多次多次不當管教那個也算所以是這個多次教保員多次一次就不行啊多次 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14748.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14753.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
市長你們這個多字是怎麼要去比量我把這個畫面畫給你看比如這個園有20個教保員那如果有一個因為他跟我們全部合作嘛那有一個教保員他有些許的違規不當管教那我們就把整個園都離開撤離那這個也在比喻原則方面我們要多一點考慮啦是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14772.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14777.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
所以你是指 這個畫面我能想像但是如果說今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14778.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14804.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
這個老師他這個幼兒的嚴重程度很高那也是要多次嗎?也是要多名嗎?委員程度如果很重他本身就當不了老師他不會存在在這個園所以你們講就是說我看到你們的草案就是說這個是這個要屬這個教保人員的行為要可規則於園長或是負責人這才算是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14805.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14805.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14828.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14829.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
對委員看到真實的樣貌 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14854.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14859.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
我個人認為那一個委員如果有一次的那種事件我都覺得我不想再去念了所以這一個我們的確要加嚴關注可是他還在啊是他應該會被我們秉儲在合作的對象範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14869.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14880.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
這樣講比較清楚所以我覺得你們在這個用詞上面要更精準因為我看到那個多次我頭暈了為什麼是多次那要幾次啊一次都不行啊那當然有一些在判斷上面你說這個有去認定的那個空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14885.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14885.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
謝謝主席 謝謝市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14912.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14917.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
主席、在場的委員、先進列席的政治經濟上的所長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、新聞女士先生有請我們教育部林次長跟國簽署的彭署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14937.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14949.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
市長好 署長好我今天的題目就是運用偏鄉閒置校舍廣設國小附幼聽好是國小附幼現期服務的教保人員比照教師薪資我先請教一下市長你有沒有聽過免費的最貴有有沒有聽過省錢的方式最浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14954.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14956.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
目前我們國家偏鄉地區托育的資源不足目前我們國家就是給誘託券、給現金你認為給現金比較省錢還是給直接的誘託服務比較省錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14985.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15009.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
我個人認為是直接給現金比較省錢其實目前的非六都的教保人員不足你看 什麼叫非六都啊不是有六都 非七都六都之外沒有 個性是沒有偏鄉的就是有新竹市所以新竹市跟六都我們把它視為是一個一個high club的那其他的呢 這非七都呢這2到6歲人口數有22萬7千多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15012.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15037.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
每15班一個人來算的話大概一萬五千多班需要的教保人員包括這三萬出頭人可是目前實際上非七度的人的教保人員只有一萬七千多人還差了一萬兩千多人如果說我們以幼兒園每兩個要一個是幼教師他還缺了六千三百七十八個教師你覺得我這裡的是公立非營利跟私立跟主要通算進去喔你覺得幼兒園的教師差額大概要花多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15039.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15062.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
一個人一年制裁了60億我算給你看來馬上我們過去政府給各地方的幼托就補助大概455億非幼隊的佔了四分之一大概要佔掉118億這是我們政府給現金的喔但是我們看看公立教室的起薪4500014個月如果我們乘以6300人的話一年要40億 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15064.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15079.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
有沒有發現給現金他花的比較多欸你把給這個非七都的這個這麼多的孩子你給他幼教師花的錢比你給父母現金還要省欸有沒有發現哪裡差別為什麼我們現在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15081.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15102.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
教保員的起薪,我們以私幼、准公幼、教保員的起薪2018年到2023年從2萬9到13萬公幼非營利的教保員起薪3萬2到3萬8我們看到了學前幼兒的受照顧的情況,家長擔心因為准公幼單位說老師難換啊,補助這麼多為什麼這些私立的還有准公幼的還有非營利的薪水還是不高,為什麼?為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15107.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15130.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
因為業者他只要不是公立國小他要去滿足他客戶的需求他在哪裡選職很重要你選對的地方家長才把孩子送來嘛這些地方都不便宜啊所以政府補助給家長的幼托補助多數到的業者口袋不會放在老師身上放在哪裡放在房租的成本上你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15133.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15149.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
所以我們看到各地因為少子化國小變成病校廢校因為教師超額很痛苦所以目前各縣市的國小教師的預缺都不敢補而且還要把學校廢掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15150.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15172.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
如果說我們根據幼兒教育條例第10條指轄市縣市主管機關應協助離島偏鄉的國民小學復設幼兒園你覺得這些偏鄉的校舍足不足以來支撐復設幼兒園他需要再去租房子嗎?需不需要?不需要嘛可以運用他就直接運用了嘛所以他只差什麼?只差人事費嘛人事費是什麼?來我們現在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15172.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15184.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
所以我希望教育部思考一下專案擴充幼教師資根據幼教法第22條你可以用勞基法以契約禁用請教一下為什麼過去地方政府不敢禁用正式教師嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15186.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15209.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
因為有超額的問題嘛我請了一個老師用教師法去應用要保障他2到30年的中生的工作權嘛但是我們幼教法可以怎樣勞基法契約禁用所以如果運用現在偏鄉的閒置校舍我們用10年的長約聘用合格優質的幼教保人員包括幼教師我們是不是可以把這些偏鄉的孩子納入到國小的複設幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15211.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15238.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
可以考慮嗎?現行也有一部分這樣做有些這樣做,我要教授往下看,很快的我們這些10年長月的教保人員我告訴你,現在失陪機構快倒了不是因為照不到生所以連失陪機構的老師都快照不保戲了這幾年來我們各國中小的老師不辦教徵失陪機構沒有人學生報考,沒有人就讀失陪機構的校長的這些教授們也快失業了 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15238.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15259.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
所以如果我們現在很多的流浪教師他有國小教師證你讓他回四倍機構去取得一個幼教師的資格他就可以成為10年的長約人員10年長約具有幼教師的資格他也可以去充實取得教育學生取得國小教師的資格未來我們確定10年內我們台灣的國小教師會出現嚴重的人力斷層 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15261.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15267.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
因為現在大家都欲缺不補到後來一直退全部現在我們平均年齡你知道現在我們國小教育平均年齡幾年嗎幾歲知道嗎應該有四十幾了 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15271.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15299.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
所以我們國小教師因為不敢再禁用所以他的年齡越來越高等到他到了年齡一次退你失陪機構再來恢復招生都來不及所以讓這些現有的具有幼教師的人他用10年長約讓他去充實國小教師的資格你也是幫我們未來的國民教育培育師資未來我們希望老師都有雙證照有幼教師 有國小教師國中教師有不同的專科好 最後結論 主席站起來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15300.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15322.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
希望你能夠進行評估非契都地區現有錢的教授．廣設國小副幼．師資比照正式教師待遇．正式教師的薪資多少．4萬5起跳．你不要給他3萬2．也不要給他3萬8．給他10年長約．用勞資法禁用．未來可以幫忙去調節我們的國小教師．跟幼教師的需求．可以提供3個月內提書面報告嗎． |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15324.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15336.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
謝謝委員的遠見對於培育未來的幼教國小教師的這個10年的這方面的努力我們請施芝斯來做一下研議結合學前組來跟委員報告好 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝 謝謝中阿兵委員好 我們接下來請鄭天才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15357.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15384.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
主席 各位委員 有請次長好 有請林次長好 次長好委員好臺灣的出生人數 溜滑梯而且非常的嚴重的溜滑梯這樣的一個人數怎麼樣去解決少子女化的問題而且是國安的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15386.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15409.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
所以無論是從衛福部的一出生嬰兒到變成教育部的幼兒都要整體的去考量去推動這樣的一個出生的人數真的是越來越少政府就必須要去主動的去解決這個國安的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15412.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15438.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
當然教育部也做了很多的推動固然沒有錯光這個數字看起來很好這個數字但是這個沒有去計算因為出生人數也減少對不對出生人數也減少然後固然你做了很多的事情所以這個有這樣的一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15440.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15441.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
所以從這樣的一個報告裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15470.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15470.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15484.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15512.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
針對這個全山基礎建設校園設計畫改造計畫這個部分含營造友善的育兒空間會後再提供為什麼花蓮台東沒有那個縣市他當時沒有提出申請是不是確實是這樣還是沒有通過我要了解一下是審查沒有通過還是怎麼樣還是他沒有提報這個也是一樣新建公共化育兒園也許他是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15514.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15514.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15534.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15534.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15562.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15586.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
我上禮拜在應該是前幾天啊禮拜一的時候跟衛福部講啊衛福部講啊你托嬰的部分啊你要想辦法而不是讓他去當然他願意去那個那個叫什麼這個自己照顧當然我們要支持但是如果尤其是在切公很嚴重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15587.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15587.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15613.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15635.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
回顧民國57年之前民國57年開始九年國教嘛對不對民國57年那時候的經濟環境是多麼的跟現在差很多但是當時的政府為了提升教育這樣實施我們現在應該就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15638.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15649.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
連二兩歲以上就全部免費往往這方向去努力這個是政府應該要做的責任可以嗎往這方向去努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15650.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15672.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
的確當時基於國民教育普及化廣設國中那時候投入很多的資源目前對於幼兒教育的部分所佈建的資源也不少於當下我們每年大概有600億在這方面做努力我來說當時沒有國安少子女化的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15674.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15685.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
現在是少子女化國安的問題更要做就是往這方向去努力去做好不好是全部免費啦好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝鄭天才委員來上請回我們接下來請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15700.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15700.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15716.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15716.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
請鵬署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15736.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15748.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
我們都加入準公托政府鼓勵我們都聽話聽話了之後你一改再改你1比12到1比15你的老師要增加多少?市長你有算過嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15751.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
15773.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
1比12跟1比15你要多少老師你現在學校畢業的還有去這個再實習再念專班的學分的到現在所有的業者請不到老師請不到老師連公家的都騙了更不要講私立還有加入你準公托那是怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
15775.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
15779.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
那這怎麼辦?馬上面臨到了8月份,現在要怎麼辦?所以謝委員關心師生筆,降下來以後老師量要增加我再次強調,如果我們的來源是足夠,我們當然滿心歡喜業者也高興,現在業者的痛苦是他找不到老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
15798.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
15799.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
15821.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
15822.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
公家都做不到來本席問你那私立的人跟加入你的準公托怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
15838.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
15838.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
15857.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
15858.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
一年幼教系畢業 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
15875.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
15875.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
15892.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
15897.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
8月份可能會調薪1比15到1比12你就用調薪你教業者調薪業者也聽你的話剛才本身說的一千二你要加多少你要 你講報有夠嗎要算有夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
15915.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
15916.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
本席請教兩個議題欠人 要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
15932.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
15932.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
你做得來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
15946.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
15946.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
請你幫我找好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
15968.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
15969.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
請你幫我找好不好我們要努力啦不是你們要努力啊 是馬上會呈現欸孩子每一天要照顧欸這一些的業者還要去笑啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
15980.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
15982.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
8月份要到15天至12天 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16004.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16007.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
怎麼辦 因為你面臨到一個問題幼幼班 幼幼班 一班16個去做的1比8啦你有沒有發覺 現在已經1比8 現在沒有人要班啦我們所有的業者苦不堪言欸孩子的妹妹的弟弟 拜託啦 一定要教啦這些業長還是要開班欸都為政府在解決問題欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16029.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16030.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
那是怎麼辦?對啊,要怎麼辦?乖乖的人就開班,開班就找不到人,這怎麼辦?這要怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16039.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16039.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
我們請署長跟您報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16066.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16089.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
這個這麼嚴肅的議題不要嬉笑我告訴你委員剛才所提的幾件事情我全都有記起來你全都有記起來拜託你解決好不好待會何新淳上來還是會講很多藍綠白的委員都講因為你一個政府的政策你一個政府的政策是讓人家沒有辦法執行的而且你還要發號施令加錢加錢沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16091.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16095.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
你補補夠沒有?你有沒有事先告人家?兩個禮拜前砰一聲通知你們要加多少?有沒有告訴人家?當你指示的時候你有沒有告訴人家?你會加人家多少錢?事後再講喔要過年了捧一聲過年前一個令下就來了對不對?事後過年後才說我補你多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16114.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16115.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
6大團體所講的議題全部都在我講的內容內 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16134.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16135.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
我有沒有探求明末 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16165.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16176.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
委員現在所提那個在3月29日已經公布了那有一些細節跟地方政府和六大團體會在兩週內我們會詳細的兩週內再去討論對對對因為有些細節像剛剛范雲委員提到勞動基準法那個在履約條件裡面雖然我們已經加了10項那這一項我們剛剛市長已經答應也會研議像你剛才所提的都會提好 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16192.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16204.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
6大團體 各縣市政府現在所有的議題 都是本席所提出來這是共同的困難我們要好好的去研討你要讓這台純實的走這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16207.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16229.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
你不是只有美化數字你現在提了一個我根本沒有這麼多的師資我怎麼辦你去問每一個業者苦不堪言不要讓一個教育者受到這樣子的一個對待因為我們一定要照顧好我們的孩子協助我們的家長投資教育希望永遠在那你要任何一個政策之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16230.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16233.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
你給他想 你推出一個政策 你的問題那麼多所以我具體建議 以後你要公布什麼樣的政策你應該要先好好的去思維 再公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16245.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16249.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
而不是公布之後然後我們再來調整這樣不對啦 都有病啦跟剛剛我那個1比15跟1比12都會亂起來啦 對不對所以拜託 好不好好好來討論那告訴我們 近期告訴我們方向好不好 讓業者可以生存好好的來照顧孩子 來協助家長好 我們再來請林月琴委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16282.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16285.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
市長,我早上看群組,大概北部的家長群組,我大概掌握了五六七個,一個群組就兩三千人,對你提出來這個事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16304.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16328.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
事實上蠻有情緒的那我今天大概就還是先針對准工這件事情因為准工開辦到底有沒有評估因為地區需求為什麼要評估地區需求因為准工本來就是因公共化的托育量能不足之後才開的可是如果該地區的非營利還有公幼已經足夠的話為什麼還開准工現在反過來造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16330.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16330.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
首先先來看就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16355.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16381.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
師生筆本來是1比15本來給我們的檔案裡面原本是2月17號的會議資料事實上是要1比12可是怎麼現在提出來的版本是1比15我們都知道第一個人數比如果增高的話那會造成什麼問題造成惡虐不當對待因為畢竟現在孩子的確跟過往是不太一樣的那老師負擔越高的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16382.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16409.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
那會造成事實上孩子可能潛在的傷害的風險事實上是高的那另外一個就要問的是同樣是在幼兒園為什麼不相同公幼可以為什麼非營利然後或者是私幼事實上是不行那錢不是要可以去補下去我不知道為什麼不可以比照公幼的一比十那在公幼孩子才是孩子嗎在私幼准公孩子就不是孩子嗎我覺得這個教育部應該去思考人多老師照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16410.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16410.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16422.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16449.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
基本上看到這個數據我想次長應該很有感覺因為真正不當對待孩子的不會是負責人跟園長那怎麼會不續約的條件事實上又排除了教保人員他才事實上是最主要的來源之一親子天下66%老師親自對學生提拔66%結果你現在把他排除了繼續續約那怎樣繼續讓孩子陷入在火坑裡邊嗎所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16453.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16453.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16482.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16482.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
請規管跟我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16498.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16498.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16516.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16516.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
三招 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16536.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16536.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16557.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16580.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
履次我想剛剛昆城委員也問過我就不知道這履次N次還是無限無限大所以不知道為什麼去訂一個履次也就是犯了違反規定沒有問題所以要告訴我們到底事實上是幾次還收費的問題現在我要看到什麼玩具操作費我去幼兒園不能玩玩具操作費嗎另外收錢然後雙語費用3C課程最後繳來繳去的話跟你原來的準工給的那個價錢之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16585.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16585.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16612.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16634.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
請回到一比十二還有不得續約條件要加入教保人員還有是不是可以明定八成以上要具備教保的資格而不是讓不合格老師你現在權益之際為了找不到老師而去作證那抱歉八成以上還是要滿足然後屢次定違違反兩次還有設專區讓家長檢舉以上謝謝好謝謝委員指教好謝謝謝謝林月晴委員次長請回我們再來請何新淳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
16645.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
16645.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
理事長、蘇長 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
16654.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
16679.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
市長好委員館市長、署長我們都來自台中那我看到你這一次今天提供的報告裡面那我們對於這個公共化教保都非常的重視而且覺得這是我們國家的重大政策也一定要繼續做要努力做而且要向下扎根但是呢在你的報告裡面有一個我們中央的一個重點政策在鼓勵地方政府增設二歲專班 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
16680.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
16700.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
我看到六都裡面臺中市我們現在是全國第二大城市已經超過285萬人口而且其中年輕家庭的人口比例是越來越高但是在兩歲專班的增設的情形裡面我們到目前為止我看到的數字六都裡面臺中市是倒數第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
16701.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
16702.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
為何是我們中央的補助不力還是怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
16714.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
16737.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
按照這個邏輯不太合理嘛因為台中市現在是全國第二大城市285萬的人口那年輕家庭年輕人的一個比例又越來越高那怎麼會在這個我相信在我的服務處也好或是中部我們台中的立委也好應該有很多的年輕家長來陳情我們這個在公托的部分所有的兩歲專班的增設情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
16740.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
16741.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
我們願意協助地方政府在擴充兩歲專班的量人 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
16759.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
16759.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
16776.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
16777.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
計劃上來如委員建議我們馬上就會給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
16792.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
16814.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
計畫上我們馬上給好不好因為這個是牽涉到我們未來要落實這個公托而且對於年輕家庭的對於孩子的托育的問題這非常重要非常重要而且我再提醒一點我希望教育部國教署可以協助地方政府要進行盤點我們現在在都會區裡面是找不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
16815.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
16815.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
每個年輕家庭如果他有這個兩歲到三歲這種托育的 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
16841.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
16842.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
在過去執政以來106年到110年以來我們總共增加了3409班 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
16862.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
16885.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
這也是公托啦!不是兩歲專班啦!兩歲專班還要再努力嘛!你剛剛講的3000多班我知道啦!過去我在教委會我知道3000多班是我們對公托的增設啦!那我們中央大力支持這個我也很肯定啦!但是這個政策我是希望再進一步請教育部、國教署這邊要跟地方政府攜手去盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
16887.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
16898.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
我們呢,像以我在大理、太平、內都會行的區域我們呢,很多的公托是公不應求啦所以呢,所以要排隊要抽籤那有很多比較鄉下或是增開收窄或是偏鄉的地方又可能有多的名額但是問題是那個區域的幼兒人數又不足我的意思是我們要去盤點,我們希望該 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
16914.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
16914.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
16935.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
16956.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
最後因為時間關係就如同剛剛有其他委員都提到的我們現在要把這個私生餅要逐年降低這個方向正確我也全力支持但是呢教保人員不足的地方我覺得我們不是只有金錢的補助而已我覺得我們中央政府應該跟地方政府好好的針對教保人員嚴重不足的這個缺工的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
16957.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
16980.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
還有可能甚至會影響到教保服務品質的問題我覺得不是只有錢的補助而已而是要進行這個值的評估甚至要盡力的全力的來媒合這個整個教保人員的一個經用問題好不好是教保人員的待遇福利影響到他的教保品質的對啊所以這個也是我們中央政府要努力的好不好要拜託拜託謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝何欣淳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
16985.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
16988.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
市長請回我們接下來請黃國昌委員謝謝主席麻煩有請市長以及體育署的副署長好有請林市長跟體育署防副署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17010.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17028.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
兩位好,時間的關係等一下如果問題次長不熟的話請副組長待會回答,沒有問題我對於我們的政府大力的講述民旅足協推廣民旅足球這件事我是贊成的我自己的老大小時候都有在踢足球這對小我朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17029.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17057.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
是好事對我們國家發展足球也是好事所以體育署每年補助迷你足協每年都上千萬每年都上千萬但我有一個原則國家的補助是要用在小朋友的身上是要用在這個運動身上而不是說反正花的是納稅人的錢又不是我的錢愛怎麼胡搞瞎搞都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17058.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17062.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
我接到檢舉啊所以這個民意足協很誇張啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17063.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17090.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
每一年從政府拿那麼多的錢結果都是同一批人在把持背後有政治人物當靠山我接到檢舉以後我一定要實事求是所以我請體育署去調資料調出來的資料我大驚失色來請副組長仔細的看一下你們體育署提供的資料光同一個年度迷你足球核銷的資料可以前後不一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17091.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17120.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
你們核銷表是怎麼樣先做一份給我發現3月26號做給我的核銷表有問題一個便當要250塊趕快4月2號再給我另外一份資料然後一個便當250塊單價沒了只有便當已是副組長這怎麼回事公文書還可以這樣子隨便變造內容喔我全部都框起來了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17122.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17133.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
請副市長解釋體育署的人做的公文書是怎麼樣在遮掩什麼可以這樣編造請說明報告委員這應該是迷你足球協會這邊韓報體育署這邊來核銷的一個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17137.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17147.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
你沒有回答我的問題啊你們提供給我的資料是兩份同一個比賽同一個年度補助上千萬結果核銷表的內容還可以不一致自己調整怎麼回事要不要查 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17167.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17168.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
副處長可以不要再凹了嗎來我進一步看上面很奇怪喔單價250塊結果我去看收據只有80塊啊怎麼寫的可以這樣搞嗎副處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17197.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17204.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
這個東西可能還是要核實來做一個核銷的動作如果沒有核實要不要移送法辦這個我們會深入來查需要多久不要講空話啦深入來查要多久兩個禮拜夠不夠可以吧這個案子我們來做專案來查核我們專案來查核我們請會計師一併陪同接下來請你一樣一樣看清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17223.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17241.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
結果我就覺得這個迷你足球協會太厲害了在全國各地從北到南從以前到現在便當均衣價80塊沒有別的價格咧真的我查了每一張收據從北到南從以前到現在給他一個介紹80塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17243.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17270.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
跟他轉台灣都同意便當不可以賣60不可以賣100全國均一價所以我就一家店一家店去查我就看說奇怪這不是豆漿店嗎怎麼會有便當所以我就派了同仁去現場看去現場看完了以後說老師我買不到便當我說為什麼買不到便當這是豆漿店中島公民就沒開了這是怎麼回事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17272.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17300.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
這拿發票來倒賬嗎?這拿發票來倒賬嗎?可以這樣做嗎?更離譜的事情是什麼?來看一下我查了跟他們往來的廠商全部幾乎都是迷你足協的自己人耶自己在外面開公司迷你足協拿國家的補助款自己在接迷你足協的生意副組長可以這樣幹嗎?國家的補助款可以這樣花嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17301.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17317.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
請回答我們這個還是要有那個利益迴避啦還是要利益迴避阿這個針對這個個案是要有利益迴避嗎所以針對這個案子我們會再深度來查該做回來的全做回來主席站出來了我只要讓你調查要徹底我最後再給你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17318.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17343.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
這很奇怪除了全部都自己人喔這個臺北足球工作室很厲害我看了發票這個臺北足球工作室喔從運費到發電機通通都有賣不僅從運費到發電機通通都有賣從場地費到舞台費他通通都可以包這個是個全能的廠商啊什麼都有賣啊結果我去查臺北足球工作室合宵 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17344.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17345.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17374.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17376.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
主席有請次長委員官 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17396.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17417.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
市長好其實剛剛其實很多委員都在關心那個準公托的部分嘛 對不對那我們知道現在少子化那個成了國安危機那教育部也投入了大筆的資源希望能夠透過像私立幼兒園托兒所購買服務的方式來推動準公共化的模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17418.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17426.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
目標是要落實平價的教保服務那你覺得現在家長對我們部裡面推動的工作是滿意的嗎你給自己打幾分這個公共化幼兒園跟准公幼的服務主要是降低家長的負擔所以年輕父母 年輕父母他的負擔是減輕這非常明顯但是幼教品質的提升還有更加的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
17447.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
17466.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
2022年兒童節蔡英文總統說育兒的事情政府一定繼續努力要當台灣家長的神隊友所以要增加公共化幼兒班的班級數那你覺得我們有做到蔡總統說的改善少子化跟幼兒環境的神隊友嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
17468.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
17493.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
對於提供那個公共化幼兒園的相關的服務量我們是有明顯提升在過去這7年大概多了3400多班這有增加的這個數字可知但是您說對於減少少子化或減緩繁殖化少子化這個還要再努力還要再證明事實上少子化還是越來越嚴重是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
17494.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
17511.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
但是您剛剛已經講到一個重點您剛剛講的是量的部分那我想請教你根據最近一次2023年台灣育兒現況的調查報告那麼目前這個公立幼兒園家長滿意度最高嘛 對不對那最低的是哪一個 哪一項是准工啦 對不對那請問你剛剛都講的增班增那麼多那請問家長到底不滿意什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
17521.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
17533.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
因為我們正班是針對公立幼兒園正班3409班這個部分是得到比較多的支持那准公因為他來自私幼那其實我們也把私幼當作事業合作的夥伴我這樣講好了跟次長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
17537.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
17560.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
家長優先選擇幼托機構 通常有三個原因學費便宜 師資穩定 有品質 比較不會違規這都是他們考量的三個重點所以為了補足公幼 公幼就是不夠你捷運的正班還是不夠2018年政府推出準工的政策讓政府跟私立幼兒園簽約給予補助又是希望能夠提供比較平價的一個服務 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
17561.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
17583.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
可是現在很大疑慮就是說實際上准工現在品質對家長來說他不單單只是政府擴充平價教保服務的配套機制家長都認為這是政府認證管理的服務可是以目前來說准工的狀況超過3成5的准工有照顧不佳的情形那六都准工又違規約超過3成那 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
17587.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
17611.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
我覺得教育部在擴充量的部分的話 值得品質的管理有做到嗎對 所以我們就透過不斷的三層很高吧 我想應該我沒有錯誤理解所以地方政府跟中央一起努力 透過稽查提升管控它的品質我覺得基本上你要推動一項政策其實真的不是只是在充量而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
17612.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
17636.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
對最重要還是職的部分要照顧到那另外我也反映一下就是現在坦白講我們的幼教的服務的那個業者也好或是幼保的人員也好其實也都蠻多的一些辛苦的地方那我舉個例子現在剛前面很多人都關心那個師資的部分那事實上我們現在的那個就是人力不夠就是個問題對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
17639.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
17653.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
我又看到全台1089間業者徵才比例高達68找不到人是主要原因高達44%請問現在我們到底是怎麼樣去把失智不夠的部分補起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
17655.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
17661.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
因為從獅子培育是這樣的固定每年有4000位幼教系幼保系的畢業他進入職場希望進入職場大概2000我們希望業主能夠善待他們好好的珍惜這些人力所以對於待遇福利還有業者也要共同努力所以我們今年大概8月我簡單做個結論就結束因為真的我也接到很多幼教方面的朋友反應 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
17683.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
17687.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
17713.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
17714.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
17725.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
17748.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
好 次長我想請教一下像國發會的一個基金預算裡面有一項是國發基金的一個補助各大學國立大學設置國家重點領域研究經費產學合作及人才培育基本運作所需的相關經費是配合國家政策性的一個補助那我想要請教次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
17751.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
17776.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
像國發會在討論這些要補助的對象的時候教育部是否會參與報告委員我這個比較不清楚我們是有高教士同仁會參與那高教士同仁會參與吧報告委那其實這個有關國家重點領域是相關各部會還有國發會然後國科會經濟部教育部等等各部會一起討論的是啊好那大家一起討論所以教育部會參與討論嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
17779.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
17808.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
我看起來每一年補助的學校都差不多都差不多那所謂你們所謂在定義國家基本領域重點研究的一個學院的時候你們是怎麼去看待什麼叫做國家重點領域的學院站在教育部的立場跟委員報告就是國家重點領域比如像過去的5加2N等等5加2N對就是隨著我們剛剛包括AI智慧製造等等那這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
17809.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
17833.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
那再來的話這些提出研究中心的這一些呢其實後續都有其他我舉個例子啦我舉個例子像無人機啊無人機是不是未來的一個國家重點的一個領域無人機的一個研究應該也算嘛對不對但是我們看到事實上國發會議在編預算的時候現在在做無人機研究或者是飛機修理比較好的學校我想大家都都知道啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
17836.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
17861.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
也不是在我的選區,雲林的虎科大虎科大他大概做飛機修理大概現在是最好的嘛,他也是國立啊但是我們也沒有看到說他被列為國家重點領域那我再舉一個例子像現在體育署我們是不是有針對半導體這樣的一個業務然後有針對半導體的人才讓未來的體育界的人可以進入半導體 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
17862.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
17876.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
那他是跟高雄大學來做是委託高雄大學在做的體育署這個選手前進半導體的培訓計畫讓選手可以這個計畫很好啦事實上他就讓選手可以他們參加這個體育的訓練但是他們也同時去受到這個半導體的一個相關的前期訓練讓他們結束選手生涯後可以直接有進入職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
17888.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
17894.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
對於現在有一些新興的學校他們在某一些科系然後事實上是搭配的現在我們國家的這個整個產業佈局他們正在努力的時候這部分他們沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
17915.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
17920.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
這一個國發的基金這裡被重視到有沒有這樣的狀況? |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
17924.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
17954.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
根文報告其實這個因為是後來是補助到學校那會由學校來提出申請那當然會考慮到學校的相關的他的師資、設備、人才等等所以經過專家審查以後覺得國家應該把這筆錢補助他們是這樣子來的是啊但是你看起來這些學校幾乎都是落在我剛所列舉的這個今年度有補助的11個學校裡面就有超過6家在台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
17955.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
17955.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
國際資源戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
17985.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18013.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
那事實上你說像我剛舉的虎科大他在這幾年在飛機修理的這樣的一個專業領域做得這麼的好但是如果以我們看到的他們所獲得的關注卻沒有像他們曾經的展現是這個樣子委員關心這個南北平衡大學資源的這個共享共榮這個有必要我們有必要的時候我們在韓納相關很前進的很努力的校園 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18014.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18032.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
好 那我再講第二個議題 抱歉 這個主席再給我一分鐘就是我延續我剛剛講的體育署的這個選手前進半導體培訓計畫那目前你們是委託給高雄大學去執行那他大概去媒合半導體公司上他也媒合了好幾家但是現在我聽到的一個普遍狀況就是說你們這個計畫是指大學畢業後 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18035.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18049.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
大學畢業後才讓他去受半好體的一些課程但是如果你是針對這些體育系的學生為什麼你們不能用類似專班的方式讓他們在大學期間就可以開始修這些學分 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18050.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18067.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
因為畢竟他們從事的除了體育的項目之外除了他們要保持他們的體能的強迫他們一定是有時間可以修到一些基本的一些學分的學習的所以如果在大學的時候就可以開始受到這樣的學分一旦已經畢業了他們沒有機會進入變成國手沒有機會變成教練他們馬上要去職場的話他們可以無縫接軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18075.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18079.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
所以我覺得這個計畫可不可以有機會我們再來討論一下我是覺得可以這個整個計畫不要把它只綁定在這些選手畢業後應該在他們大學期間就可以開始做從事這樣的一個準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18092.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
18096.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
跟委員報告,因為這個計畫我們主要是針對退役選手啦,他之後之後可能有一些多元的一些選擇所以這個部分,之後針對委員這邊所提到的這樣的建議,我們是不是再來做一個討論退役選手啦,事實上有一些選手,事實上一直待下,差不多大一大二過他大概也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
18114.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
18141.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
他還有沒有機會在體育這一塊再發光發熱有些人可能沒機會他就可能要趕快尋找他的第二專業了那如果有這樣的一個計畫我是很贊成我們教育部有這樣體育署有這樣的一個計畫給這一些體育人才他們有未來就業的另外一條路但是勒有沒有辦法把這一個計畫做得更多元事實上我們再討論一下我們跟那個委託單位高雄大學這邊我們再討論一下可能性OK 謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
18145.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
18145.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
好 謝謝蔡議員 也謝謝次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
18151.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
18166.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
吳立華委員吳立華委員吳立華委員不在李彥秀委員李彥秀委員不在陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員不在黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員不在謝一鳳委員謝一鳳 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
18176.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
18182.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
謝依鳳委員不在林德福委員不在邱志偉委員不在蘇清泉委員不在牛許廷委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
18197.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
18197.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
提出書面質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
18249.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
18250.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
我提出事情講了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
18253.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
18274.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
好 那就關於今天會議做如下決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提的書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報關於委員質詢要求相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在休息 謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
18323.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
18323.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
本集完 |