| IVOD_ID |
15796 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15796 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-10T08:31:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-10T13:37:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:05:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6856dd93cf8458dbe42d6a76734f73991823be8d109af184be4011529dffd744dd25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查
(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案。
(二)委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「再生醫療發展法草案」案。
(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案。
二、審查
(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療製劑條例草案」案。
(二)委員謝衣鳯等18人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例草案」案。
(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例草案」案。
【一、二案採綜合詢答，本日會議僅詢答】
【4月8日及10日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:03 - 13:37:00 |
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醫療法草案。」案。 unintendant 委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2081.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2087.303 |
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療治劑條例草案。」議員謝衣鳯等18人擬具:「再生醫療治劑管理條例草案。」議員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療治劑管理條例草案。」以上議程採綜合詢答。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2107.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2132.275 |
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現在介紹在場委員及列席官員陳昭芝委員林月琴委員邱議瑩委員羅廷瑋委員好那我們介紹列席的官員衛福部部長薛瑞元部長醫事司劉月平司長食藥署吳秀美署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2135.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2157.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
中央健康保險署副署長龐一鳴副署長國家發展委員會產業發展處專門委員林俊儒專門委員下午12點半之後是劉文宇科長國家科學及技術委員會生命科學研究發展處處長楊台鴻處長經濟部產業技術司檢任計政戴建成檢任計政 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2165.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2180.383 |
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產業發展署李家峰組長法務部參事汪南君參事數位發展部數位產業署副署長林俊秀副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2181.65 |
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2198.078 |
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公平交易委員會法律事務處專門委員七雪莉專門委員好那呃現在請提案委員就討論事項第一案及第二案一併說明提案要指每位委員4分鐘請邱議瑩委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2210.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2233.082 |
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謝謝主席部長還有我們衛福部的所有的長官還有立法院的同仁大家早安首先感謝主席今天來排審我們的再生醫療法跟再生醫療製劑條例草案那大家都知道這幾年來先進的國家無不投入大量的資源來進行醫療生技產業那截至2023年為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2234.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2239.306 |
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醫療法草案案案 全球已經有1803項的再生醫療臨床試驗正在進行。相較於2022年這個已經大幅成長了77%。那預估到2050年全球的再生醫療產值將會高達3800億美元的規模。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2256.756 |
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2275.705 |
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我們看到日本、韓國、美國以及歐盟等國家都紛紛制定相關的法律一方面要確保先進醫療療法的安全跟品質一方面要能夠提供足夠的彈性鼓勵在這個領域的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2276.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2295.093 |
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而台灣自2018年我們通過了特管辦法納入細胞治療之後累積到現在總共有502件的申請案核准了305件的治療計畫總收案的人次是共1398人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2297.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2313.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們都知道細胞治療已經逐漸成為癌症以及許多罕見疾病患者的新的醫療選擇那為了讓再生醫療能夠使更多的病人受惠並且提供病患 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2313.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2315.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
醫療發展法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2335.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2360.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
在產業面來講我剛剛也特別的提到未來全球的再生醫療產值會高達3800億的美元而再生醫療在台灣雖然推行了6年多但是因為沒有足夠的法源依據很多的業者投入了資金研發但僅止於在特管辦法申請個案或者是在人體試驗的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2362.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2380.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
而這樣子的法源不足讓很多的業者即使投入了這麼多的資金而面臨到無法量產化甚至自動化讓他們的細胞治療也沒有辦法能夠擴大所以在立法院的第9屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2381.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2403.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
醫療法草案案案件及第10屆兩屆任期裡面本席就已經在不斷地推動再生醫療法的立法很可惜因為屆期不連續這兩屆都插了零門一角再生醫療法還是成為我們的遺珠之憾所以在這一屆任期的一開始我再度把我們上一屆任期的最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2404.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2421.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
草也雙方甚至跟行政部門協商最後的一個版本我再把它文字重新繪整了一下然後送進了立法院我們希望在這一屆的立法院的任期之內能夠把再生醫療推展通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2423.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2438.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
雖然目前只有委員的版本還沒有看到行政院送出的行政院版但我相信在陳建仁院長以及衛福部的承諾底下我們希望行政院版能夠早日送進來立法院讓我們來討論並案審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2442.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2456.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我必須跟大家說明我在12年前曾經是一個卵巢癌的患者所以我深深的知道病人對於求得一線生機的渴望我也知道這個對於病人來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2457.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2463.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2477.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2501.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
能夠有多一種不同的選擇而醫療的技術日新月異從我們6年多以前開始推動的第一個再生醫療法一直到現在其實醫療的技術一直不斷的在進步所以我們在文字上面在法規上面也一直不斷的在做修正懇請各位委員今天我們能夠充分的來對於再生醫療法以及再生醫療治劑 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2502.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2514.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及� |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2542.208 |
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2562.833 |
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好,非常感謝昭緯對再生醫療的一個關注今天排這個室來讓我們有這個機會來說明那我想再生醫療治劑的管理條例呢我想跟大家做個簡單的報告再生醫療是現今的趨勢就猶如剛剛其他委員所提到的能夠將過往認為無法根治的疾病 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2563.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2579.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2586.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2601.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
科技日新業役我們的再生醫療已經作為一個非常非常備受關注的一個新型治療方式我們更希望能夠加速擴大應用之臨床醫學建於我國再生醫療發展目前已 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2602.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2619.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
藥事法管理再生醫療制計,雖定於相關的審查基準等規範,為再生醫療的一直性物以及特殊性治療的複雜性、風險管控,有別於化學以及生物制計,現行的藥事法無法 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2620.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2638.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
完全涵蓋或一體適用應就醫療機構執行的再生醫療相關的管理機制制定專法加以規範以順應當前的醫療發展趨勢並符合實務管理的需求為確保再生醫療整體的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2639.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2657.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們希望再生醫療制計管理條例的草案能夠保障醫療機構實行再生醫療的一個品質跟安全性維護病人的接受治療的權益明確提供業者遵循從事細胞及基因的一個商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2658.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2671.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
醫療法草案案 規格製成加工達到標準一致化再生醫療的一個製劑規範使民眾得以及早接受再生醫療的一個製劑治療。我想再生醫療法 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2674.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2688.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
將這個細胞基因的一個重建修復或者是人體的治療預防都已經變成民眾的一個新的期待。我想我們希望再生醫療的一個發展能有其風險性 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2689.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2715.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
各國根據不同的技術標準定定的相關法規賦予其強制性用以完成其架構避免不必要的風險為確保再生醫療的發展整體我們保障醫療機構的施行以及再生醫療的品質安全性維護病人的治療我們更希望再生醫療以及再生醫療的一個治劑管理都能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2716.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2745.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
獲得更多更多的一個保障很可惜目前還沒有看到行政院衛福部所提出的一個版本那我想也曾經提出承諾但是呢我們也很擔心因為520即將要到任我們不知道這些官員會不會還在這個崗位上我們當然希望能夠繼續把這個再生醫療關注並且早日提出版本大家趕快探討出一個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2745.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2773.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
能夠趕緊將這些利國利民沒有藍綠意識形態的法案趕緊執行讓國人能夠更加安定的來享受這些我們需要的醫療法規然後擁有這其安全性、一致性以建構整體再生醫療的創新推動方針促進再生醫療的永續發展為目標以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2777.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2781.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
謝謝羅廷瑋委員的發言接下來請薛瑞元部長就以上兩案並案說明時間10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2793.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2815.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
主席、各位委員、女士先生今天是大院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開的全體委員會議本部呈要列席報告深感榮幸自就再生醫療法草案及再生醫療制計條例草案提出專案報告敬請各位委員不吝指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2816.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2840.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那第一,再生醫療法草案一共有35條那因為之前在立法院這邊借期不續審所以在113年也就是今年的3月20那我們還請這一個行政院來審查那行政院正在審查當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2843.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2863.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們這一次提報給行政院的其實是跟之前的法案內容變化不大重點是以下幾點第一個是確保提供病人安全有效的治療所以醫療機構執行再生醫療前應該進行人體試驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2869.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2881.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
但是有幾個例外的情形以確保這一個醫療機構的執行或細胞的操作有一定的成熟度及穩定度 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2882.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2904.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第二、鼓勵再生醫療研究發展為了要促進再生醫療臨床應用的量能提升給予獎勵或補助第三、明定醫療機構執行再生醫療的範疇以執行醫師的資格因為再生醫療的執行是屬於醫療行為執行場所應以醫療機構為限 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2911.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2920.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
醫療機構應該經過中央主管機關的核准才可以來執行再生醫療的技術或者是使用再生醫療的治劑。執行再生醫療的醫師應該是該疾病相關領域的專科醫師並具備再生醫療相關的資能。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2927.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2941.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
第四,執行細胞操作機構及人員應該符合的規範。醫療機構可自行或委託再生醫療、生技醫藥公司或其他醫療機構來執行細胞操作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2946.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2971.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那這一些執行細胞操作的這一個機構是不用依照藥事法的規定去取得藥品製造業許可執照。那細胞操作的方法、設施、設備、管制、測試、運銷、操作人員資格與應完成的相關訓練、查核、許可等等的申請條件跟其他應遵行的事項,我們會訂定辦法來規範。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2974.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2997.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
第五,執行再生醫療應盡的醫務。醫療機構執行再生醫療前,應該向這個病人充分說明所執行的再生醫療風險、效果及所涉及的相關權利醫務,得到同意之後才可以為之。醫療機構執行再生技術或者使用再生製劑,應該製作紀錄並且保存15年。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3001.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3023.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第六,管理組織細胞的來源。細胞操作執行機構以及細胞的保存庫應對組織細胞提供者進行合適性的判定。有關細胞保存庫的設置、品質管理及保存費用的收取等會另訂辦法予以規範。 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3024.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3049.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
第七確保再生醫療的品質跟安全為確保再生醫療的安全與品質並維護民眾及病人的權益規範德維再生醫療組織細胞提供者的招募廣告與再生醫療廣告的主體及廣告管理規定執行結果的報告、主動通報機制及救濟測試等事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3051.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3055.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
並且明定停止或暫止執行再生醫療的管制措施。 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3057.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3081.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
第二部分是再生醫療治劑草案。再生醫療治劑條例草案一共有23條。重點如下有鑒於再生醫療治劑的成分抑止性、製程特殊性以及治療的複雜性。現行的藥事法相關的規劃無法全部涵蓋或者是一體適用。所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3083.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3109.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
委員為我國再生醫療產業的整理發展維護病人接受治療的權益並確保再生醫療製劑的品質、安全性及有效性擬具的再生醫療製劑條例草案再生醫療製劑管理條例草案以及以健全對再生醫療製劑全生命周期的管理本部見表支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3110.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3137.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
而另外本部也已經研擬了再生醫療自治條例的草案那在今年3月20送行政院審查那目前也是在審查當中那希望在行政院審查通過之後儘速提交大院一併審議也期盼透過本條例草案的立法健全對再生醫療自治全生命周期的管理並促進再生醫療產業的蓬勃發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3139.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3157.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那兩項的法案與各委員的版本的差異的評估是已經詳列在本部的書面報告,那請各位委員參閱。本部曾擔任各委員之指教與監督,在此今日卸陳,並請各位委員繼續予以支持。以下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3165.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3194.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報。那現在開始詢答做一下宣告。本會委員詢答時間為6加2分鐘。列席委員4加1分鐘。10點30分截止發言登記。委員如有書面質詢請於散會前提出預期不受理。暫定10點30分休息10分鐘。依往例審查法案不處理臨時提案。現在請登記第一位委員陳昭之委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3200.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3200.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
藍芽藍芽藍芽藍芽藍 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3208.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3220.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
懷納：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3238.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3256.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
這是我們都在說明的時候有一些事務性的事務要委託其他機構來辦理那今天是不是說要講清楚學界跟業界到底看到這種對照表會恐慌是不是今天要講清楚到底最後要用哪個版本是用院版還是用事務所版那這是不要讓各界繼續摸索無所適從 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3263.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3282.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這個沒有所謂的事務所版啦,這個只是說在做一個我們這一次在原來的版本做了一些修正。好,所以部長是知情的,由這個機構來主辦。部長,我們都清楚上一次之前我們最大的爭議就是在這個所謂的免除這個藥品這個許可證的三個條件,我就談第二個條件。經執行人體試驗,證實其安全性是初步療效。 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3291.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3320.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
部長什麼叫人體試驗人體試驗不是你寫在上面叫人體試驗不是打到人體就叫人體試驗人體試驗在全世界執行了半個世紀以上他有一定的規則一定的管理方式什麼叫人體試驗這是第一個第二個什麼叫初步療效我陳昭之從事藥學40年我不認識什麼叫初步療效世界上沒有初步療效這個字如果你把人體試驗初步療效放在一起這是移校全世界移校全球 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3321.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3345.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
部長任何加諸人體的治療首先就要確認安全性跟療效這兩件事需要科學來佐證的你缺乏二期三期這搞不好連第一期都不是請問這個做法最後誰來負責醫療品質跟這個法律責任呢這個完全是違背醫學倫理罔顧病人權益難怪外界會質疑這個是為為廠商跟某些醫療機構開後門 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3348.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3369.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
部長您也知道這個法條是非常寬鬆的我相信你知道為什麼呢您在2023年4月朝野協商說了一段話如果您不管記不記得我把它underline畫線部長您當時解釋在原部版的第九條第二三款範圍過大太過普遍有門放得太寬的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3371.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3391.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
若已經證實安全且有療效,就應該走第八條的路,若非造成各界的餘力而不是說是使用會造成各界的餘力,但又未來可能會直接引用第九條而不按第八條來做,將無法有效把關這個品質跟安全。部長您當時講得非常好。我想問您,您今天的立場改變了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3393.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3415.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個立場並沒有變。那這一次我們現在正在行政審議的版本我們把這一個已經修正了。那有兩個點。第一個點,它的意思原來的這一個版本的這個前體的部分的話,前緣的這個部分的話,寫得不好。因為這一條要解決的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3418.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3438.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
所有的再生醫療的技術都必須要經過人體試驗才能夠我剛剛你知道什麼叫人體試驗人體試驗理想有分三期要規範的非常清楚不是我們自己發明也不是你寫的這個沒有錯所以我們這個人體試驗好我們回到臨床試驗不過我先說明一下因為這個事關重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3439.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3443.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那所有的都需要先經過那個人體試驗,人體試驗之後的話有了這一個結果才能夠申請查驗單據。有了這個結果,全球公認的臨床試驗的結果不是台灣自己發明也不是衛福部定義的臨床試驗。 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3456.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3474.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我再補一句但是有兩種情形本來這邊寫的是三種後來我們檢討的結果就把第二款那一個拿掉了就只有兩種情形可以沒有完成人體試驗的時候就可以先來使用就是原來的那兩條嗎第一個就是恩恥 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3475.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3490.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
第二、已經在特管辦法裏面開始執行的這些不必再重複做得明白沒有經過臨床試驗就不能收費這是另外一個問題我們要討論臨床試驗是不能收費而且甚至要保護病人有很多的法律要保護病人 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3491.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3517.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
部長當醫師或業者鼓吹再生醫療面對的研究報告其實病人家都看不懂啦這相對是這個資訊弱勢嘛他就在資訊不對等情況下因為面臨生死關頭他難免會這個因為想要爭取一線希望所以他可能會做出不理性的決定花了幾百萬元但是事實上背負著沉重的這個經濟壓力但是沒有任何保障為什麼因為你沒有科學實證來做證明嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3519.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3532.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
其實很多癌症病人他確實是在等待這一線生機啦那他們也可能願意耗盡家財來挽救自己或家屬可能換取短短幾年的這個壽命但是你要知道部長即便如此他們還是對這個版本有高度質疑這一句話這些話不是我講的他們對於這個初步療效的定義也是覺得非常模糊那部長你剛剛是不是承諾初步療效這一條是不見的這拿掉了好謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3548.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3555.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
醫療法草案．立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3559.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3582.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
藥害救濟的部分的話是在治劑條例裡面那再生醫療法是當你要來衛福部這邊申請他來可以執行的時候我們就要在他的計畫書裡面看到他對於這一個發生不良事件的時候有這個責任保險。 部長我當天問了藥害救濟董事長很多規範我非常清楚因為很多衛福部官員都說那我們另外來設一個責任保險但是我們來看一下這個責任保險裡面有兩個關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3586.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3598.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3609.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3636.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個完全就是沒有保護力,這完全就是不可能的任務啊。因為不能這樣講啦,因為這一個部分的話是舉證責任的問題。如果是相反的是要由醫療機構來舉證說他這一個部分沒有問題。受害者是病人啊,病人要舉證啊。沒有沒有,他...你這舉證的問題是你有證據,所以我可以去比對,他做錯什麼哪裡都做好。這個所謂舉證責任導致是病人只要舉證說他有受有損害就好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3637.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3641.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那有沒有因果關係跟這個社會的… 那個是醫療機構要去…就是說我們還在保護病人的前提嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3648.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3648.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3670.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3691.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
還有就是說如果細胞治療他會搭配他會搭配其他的治療來用那這個情況如果說我們這個前面不清楚你搭配的正規治療我們都不知道傷害來自何處我們也不知道療效來自何處所以這個是都是很大的問題部長那個根據衛部的資料去年全國有39家醫院提供954人次的細胞治療服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3692.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3697.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
超過7成的病人經費發過100萬到200萬之間有9%的病人超過200萬病人付了這麼多錢那只能仰賴在有效的或是說很薄弱的一個所謂的初步有療效當然你說要把這個字拿掉我也很謝謝部長這樣合理嗎?花了這麼多錢如果你沒有足夠的科學佐證然後讓他買那一線希望這樣合理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3717.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3723.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
科學道理加醫學倫理,雙理。美國歐盟在日本針對這個再生醫療他們都用嚴格的這個品質的規範譬如說他們採用這邊有些名詞沒有關係CGMP、PIXA等等但是他目的他就是造一個這個優良製造規範這個版本但是上一版的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3741.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3754.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
根本都沒有想執行細胞治療的操作要符合什麼樣的品質規範連談都沒有談這樣怎麼保障病人的權益呢?這次有嗎?應該是要符合GDP啦在醫療機構裡面做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3757.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3783.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
GDPGDPD Good Tissue Practice 這個我們等會再來檢查因為今天都完全沒有看到版本就是品質的部分要規範得很清楚是根據哪一個品質規範標準來做如果你不這樣做的話我們台灣的這個再生醫療以後如果跟國際接軌呢你總不能就在台灣這樣子做啊那部長我還要談一件事強制的前署長說過公立院跟財團法院都是非營利機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3785.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3795.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
醫療法草案（事由．立法院第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3812.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3829.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
醫療公司?這是衝突啊!利益衝突啊!我們現在送行政院審查版本這一條已經沒有了。拿掉了齁?好,謝謝部長。我也相信大多數醫師是有良知的啊,但是你不能反映制度如果不完整會少數的人會去做營利,但這樣就是陳培哲醫師講的啊,把醫師的白袍染成黑袍嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3830.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3834.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3848.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3855.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這個我認為是不應該去特別去管這個只有只限於這一個同手的。因為未來的這個發展這是一個重要的關鍵。 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3863.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3881.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
疫體本身細胞的安全性、複雜性,它不是小細胞那麼穩定喔,整個自備過程非常繁瑣。法治局也說這個風險很高喔。以前前前立委林靜雯還說這個就是什麼打message RNA疫苗就是所謂疫體。messageRNA跟細胞無關欸,messageRNA不是細胞欸。這個是細胞自體跟疫體,所以部長您這次有把疫體的部分放進去嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3881.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3881.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3886.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3913.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這是未來一個趨勢啊。你風險很高喔。部長我在講說我最後因為時間夠了主席已經站起來了不好意思部長當你跟我年老的時候有一天我們就回想我們這輩子有沒有做過這個有愧疑心的事情我希望這個法案不是因為造成這件事情科學實證我們雖然給病人一個選項我們年老的時候也許會覺得說還好那個時候有通過這個法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3914.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3918.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
醫療發展法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3938.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3944.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3965.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3993.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那最近想來跟你討論的一個就是我們的國際局勢不穩定全世界都在關心我們國內藥品的存量是否是充足的那包括加臺灣安全的歐盟也在2023年公布了我們的關鍵用品的那個清單那所以歐盟這項措施的話顯示我們國際市場上的藥品的原物料跟成品來源的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3994.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3996.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
藥品的名單公佈之後跟去年初這關鍵藥品的名單公佈之後跟去年初這關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4008.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4034.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
藥品聯盟針對這份名單再進行藥品供應鏈的脆弱性再做分析。目標是在於減輕供應風險,能夠提高藥品需求的可預測性來加強供應。所以想請問一下,今天結合群力以夥伴關係來全體利益來作為監督管控的時候,這是一個相當嚴謹的管制方法。同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4035.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4050.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4050.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4071.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
草案：一、審查namon 目前我們第二藥品的品項大概是481項。每兩年我們會重新再做履歷品。謝謝部長。那台灣的藥師公會等專業的團體是不是可以承擔這樣的任務?就你的看法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4072.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4096.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我覺得這一個還是由行政機關來主導那我們會參考這一個相關的專業團體的意見因為如果通通委託給專業團體的話那他可能想的就不太一樣好上藥品關係到國家跟社會的安全面對中國的威脅台灣不能避免假設發生戰爭的可能性的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4097.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4099.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
藥品及原料是否受到航運的影響而導致斷絕供應,所以對這些被列為必要藥品及 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4115.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4128.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
戰略藥品的一個項目更加依賴所以想請問根據衛福部的瞭解臺灣有多少比例的那個製藥原料是來自海外的其中有多少比例來自中國我請署長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4133.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4160.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
委員好,我們其實大部分的原料藥都是輸入的。台灣自己有的原料藥的品項應該只有幾百種。對,所以我們很多還是,現在我們一直在鼓勵國內的原料藥廠,他們也能夠自己能夠研發,不過這個都需要時間。對,你們八成來自國外,所以想問這八成裡面這原物料有這麼高比例掌握在中國,占了50%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4162.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4177.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
醫療法草案案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅� |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4183.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4203.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4211.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4235.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
草案案政府的工作執行經驗如果要落實這一項建議的話勢必是要有現有的機制去做整合所以想問必要藥品跟戰備藥品盤點是不是落實這個資料治理的監督機制的政策項目之一當然好那如果是的話那我們就要來看是因為這些包括必要藥品跟戰略藥品的話按照法都要定期盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4237.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4259.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
藥品及衣材有足夠庫存來維繫藥品供應的安全。所以想請問的是自104年之後通過的藥事法第27條之二的修正案當中已經開始必要藥品的盤點要兩年盤點一次可是最近公告必要藥品清單卻是在112年所以我們在前面107年109年盤點怎麼到112年反而是跨三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4267.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4296.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
想問是為什麼定期盤點必要藥品的任務會變成如此的隨意鬆散因為本來222怎麼到這時候變成3那一年應該要盤點的那一年應該是碰到疫情碰到疫情的時候因為有一些藥的供應還是有一些問題那整個國際的這個進出口也受到部長那時候不是更要盤點嗎因為我們那時候事實上疫情我們是最脆弱的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4296.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4321.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
醫療法草案：一、審查netesa Lee等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一、審查netesa Lee等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一、審查netesa Lee等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一、審查netesa Lee等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一、審查netesa Lee等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一、審查netesa Lee等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一、審查netesa Lee等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一、審查netesa Lee等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案� |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4324.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4325.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
藥品供應鏈降低危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4351.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4376.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
目前的原料藥來自國外比較多那大量仰賴國外的原廠藥的話那印度生產的學民藥陸續又在臺販售跟國內的製藥者去做競爭臺灣生產的學民藥甚至要透過跟印度合作取得銷售國外的通路所以印度自1970年開始大力發展我們的學民藥產業以至於今日幾乎超越臺灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4377.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4377.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
藥品供應鏈還有韌性嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4384.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4409.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這的確是一個比較大的問題就是說國內的學名藥的市場要怎麼樣開拓因為國內的學名藥的這個廠商通常都把市場鎖定是在國內的健保市場作為它主要的市場那這樣子來講對這一個產業發展是不利的是不是我覺得現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4410.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4417.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
如果我們要強化藥品供應鏈台灣的策略會是什麼所以如果近來各國都爭相我們的強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4419.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4448.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
藥品的供應鏈,那是不是日本是啟動本土的製藥來採分散供應的策略,韓國是強化藥品定期盤點,它是每6個月,那到底我們要不要去比照,我認為是不是臺灣是不是可以一年盤查一次,那另外一個就要問的是,所以本期強烈要求衛福部要立即規劃自民國114年當年起的那個必要藥品跟戰略藥品跟原 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4450.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4454.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
藥每一年都做一次的盤查。」我不知道部長這邊同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4456.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4480.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這可能要看因為其實這些藥品的品項也蠻多而且分散在各個醫療院所以可不可以評估看看可不可以做到因為這個還是自為關鍵因為如果真來了我們需要有這些來救治所以一樣原料藥的那個盤查沒有法律規定的話所以是不是在年底之前提出法律的修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4481.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4503.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
送本院審議。」這個不知道部長同意嗎?原料藥的部分的話這個這個法律修正是沒有太大的問題但是實際執行要怎麼樣執行的話可能還要再思考一下因為原料藥跟其他的藥品的國外或國內製造的藥品 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4505.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4506.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具〈再生醫療法草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4528.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4529.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案 案 案 條例 條例 條例 條例 條例 條例 條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4544.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4555.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
醫療法草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4565.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4567.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
草案案件事務委員委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4593.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4612.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這個網站已經10年了在110年12月真的是停止解析封網了3個月目前還是活著如果你要等民眾申訴想問的是這個偷拍論壇網站的人他想看的人他會來嗎受害的人又出不來那如果要等著申訴才啟動所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4614.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4635.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
藥通知網路平臺這陣子黃子嬌買的這些事實上是境外的那你如何通知如何要求下架那如果現在這個網站都還存在的話為什麼不能主動出擊而且昨天我們看到新聞稿第一時間看到的是你們攻封網久見也就是說一年來封網久見 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4637.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4652.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4663.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4680.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好謝謝呃林月請委員發言接下來請陳金輝委員發言呃各位同事各位官員早安請薛部長謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4684.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4695.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
負責我們在來的路上我看每個人都在看手機宣布新任的內閣啊所以我也想問部長說我們還有機會可以一起共事嗎我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4697.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4719.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
雖然部長不知道但是真的很期待部長可以再繼續留任然後把您剛提到的比如說保育類相關的專法人工生殖法或是您所期待的這個再生醫療法我們都可以繼續一起把它完成好嗎在520之前的話我一定把自己分內的工作做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4720.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4742.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
謝謝部長再來這個也是大家非常關心部長知道我們之前有一波MeToo的風潮這個MeToo的風潮其實這些性暴力或是性犯罪的受害者他們往往是早年有這樣子的經驗結果經歷了很大的事件以後全部都回憶起來所以像MeToo其實是一個電視劇引發的電視劇是在講黨工的故事 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4746.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4769.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
結果紛紛許多黨工就開始回憶他們年輕的時候曾經歷的性侵害再來像最近的這些事件為什麼會有人在網路上寫文章說自己在未成年的時候遭受到性侵害也是因為可能有一個比較重大的事件或是私密騙等等觸動了這些回憶所以呢我也 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4770.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4795.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
發現網路上很多人開始分享自己小的時候受到性騷擾啊性侵害等等的這個經驗所以呢每個人回憶起來以後就會想要去找相關的資源那我覺得衛福部必須要稱讚的是你們的SEO做得非常好所以當我在搜尋性騷擾相關資訊衛福部的網站會第一個跳出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4797.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4814.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
但是呢,所有這些信只要有受害者他想要去看下面的處理原則比如說說明手冊啊、申訴書等等的我們來看一下會是什麼畫面這也可以請現場的官員可以拿起手機實際的操作看看結果都是空白的 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4819.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4832.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所以你們網站會放到第一個你會讓性騷擾的受害者很快的找到衛福部有提供你這些資源可是你裡面的內容卻是空白的我們查一下啦到底這個問題是什麼因為現在網路上在搜尋這些資訊的人其實還蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4845.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4850.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4866.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4889.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
信息影片網站的某一位受害者接觸過他告訴我說呢他在遭受這個私密片外流之後他整整接受了一整年的心理諮商他才稍微平復而且可以走出來但當然又遇到重大事件的時候他又會陷進去原本的那個情緒所以你會知道說這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4890.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4919.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
信心愛創傷的復原方案非常的重要而且呢我們每年也編列幾千萬的預算去協助這些我有問了一下地方政府的社福單位地方政府社福單位說像這樣子的服務的對象都是早年所遭受創傷而且目前沒有司法案件審理的被害人可是他們可能在未成年的時候有遭受創傷地方政府更多是處理一些緊急的案件所以較少會轉介 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4920.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4940.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
因此在這邊也希望說部長可以注意到像這種特殊性的特殊性的族群啊是需要你們主動去提醒他們比如說你們可能主動去通報早年曾經受創的人或者是像最近您做的不錯去花蓮震災的時候你們就會告訴這些災民說 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4943.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4965.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們有提供一些心理支持的方案歡迎在民來使用這樣子的服務啊所以比如說最近有這些新聞衛福部也都有積極的回應你們對於新聞的看法或是後續的處理方式所以未來是不是你們也可以提醒有在看新聞的這些曾經有不好的經驗的受害者也可以尋求你們這樣子的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4966.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4986.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
這當然是藉由媒體來宣導這個是沒有問題我們一定可以來做那目前來看的話我們有這個設置了在各個縣市去設置性侵害防治中心那裡面就有對這個受害者提供除了驗傷啦陪同保安的還有心理輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4987.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5011.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
那這心理輔導的部分的話以去年來看的話一共提供了差不多一萬三千人次啦對但部長我跟你說一個數據其實遭受性侵害性騷擾的這些人有很多是黑素他們九成不會通報可能四成連跟人家講都不敢而且呢未成年喔占了七成所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5012.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5022.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一), |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5039.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5059.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
當時忙著在報案數位警察也不太熟心理諮商所以可能講出一些他感受不是很好的話啦那我們來看下一張這個所以大家對於性別意識不斷的提高因此呢我們的耳寶通報案是創五年來的新高但很遺憾的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5061.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5089.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
社工不足我們已經在多次的委員會都已經談過了所以我們的開案率逐年降低然後也創了新低當時部長有講到說可能是派案不夠精準因為現在大家都比較怕被究責等等所以大家都會往兒保那邊去派所以就會被派到家暴中心去而到社工這邊脆弱家庭社工這邊會比較少大家會稍微把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5090.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5108.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
草原看待所以這個判案不夠精準你有提到說正在研擬兒少分流輔助的指引可是要等到5月才會提交到行政院最快下一個會期所以下一個會期最早是9月最慢是12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5109.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5129.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
但我們來看一下一年我們有9.5萬件所以我們延遲這5個月的時間大概就有4萬人會因為拍案失準而被延遲或是沒有開案等等的這些都是可能我不知道像現在這是社會高度矚目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5130.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5158.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
提材啦所以部長會不會更加加快這樣子的速度把這個分流輔助的指引送到立法院如果可以拼這個會期這一個部分的話其實剛剛講說齁可能要到五月齁等等這些的話指的是修法啦而選法的修法的這一個部分但是派案的精準這部分當然我們有我們來盡量看看這個指引能不能提早出來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5159.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5187.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
因為我問了一下基層的爾保這些社工人員他們因為派案失準所以已經快要被壓垮了離職率也越來越高越來越難招人所以這也許是比較急迫的問題接下來我也想問因為早上有看到周資委員也有問到你們是不是有辦過一個再生醫療法草案的公開說明會大概3月21號 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5192.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5206.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
兩場這個公開說明會我有稍微看了一下內容其實是修改蠻多部分的但是跟今天我們業務報告拿出來的彙報好像結論是大相徑庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5208.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5237.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這其實修改不多啦比較會去動的就是剛剛提到的那兩個條文一個是那個免人體試驗的本來有三款把它拿掉一款那另外一個一個是就是那個醫療機構去兼營那個生技公司這一條我們把它拿掉那其他的部分大概就是條次有變其他是小修改是不是因為我看每一張你都有做slide |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5238.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5263.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
對但是一個比較大看起來的大的修改是把那一個人體試驗移到前面來因為過去很多的批評是說啊都沒人體試驗啊就尊業這樣子啊其實是那個章節編排的問題啦把人體試驗放到後面去會以為是這個草案其實你們有一些修改的方向為什麼不 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5264.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5279.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
不想在這次的報告裡面呈現給委員們看。 不是,來不及,因為那個行政院在4月19號他們那個政委才要做審查。其實您也可以稍微在這次的報告裡面提到您修改的方向,主要是哪一些部分嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5280.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5293.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
不然這樣子我們拿到你的報告然後再對照別人給我們的公開說明會的資料會覺得這樣對行政院有點不禮貌啊因為他還沒有審查完我們就把這個資料拿到立法院來主席我稍微講兩個重點就好了這個你們裡面有一個再生醫療審議委員會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5300.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5326.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
在這個再生醫療審議委員會可以做的事情我覺得是自費武功因為你把很多項目包括推動政策觀念宣導病安醫療品質提升人才培育等等喔都只有諮詢的功能你只有第五款還有第七款關於這個研究還有再生治劑的許可才有審議的功能我是不是這樣建議你應該把第一行改成 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5327.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5347.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
以下事項在生醫療審議會都有審議跟諮詢的功能呢?不然你不是可以擔任這個監督你是守門員審議會是守門員結果你大部分都只有諮詢的功能不是很不合理嗎這個也要看他的性質啦像說人才培育他要審什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5348.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5376.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
病人安全跟醫療品質總要審議吧?這是一個廣泛性的審議通常指的是個案一個什麼樣的案子來要你去那第六款呢?第六款一樣這是一個通案性的第七款這才是有這種再生治劑有付款許可的這個案子就拿來審議會來再生技術的管理不需要審議嗎?第六款 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5376.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5380.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
第6款,還有執行成效評估第8款, |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5383.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5408.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
這是大的原則第六款那個是災生技術管理有沒有什麼樣的方向性的話是由這一個委員會來可以來提供意見給我們最後一個小小的建議啦這邊有規定性別委員不得少於委員總數的三分之一但是我們來比較你其他的醫事審議委員會喔這邊你有規定要有醫事法學學者社會人士 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5409.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5433.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
請之後提出來的草案可以再加強這裡面的人員組成的專業度,好嗎?好,謝謝。好,謝謝陳金輝委員。因為這兩個法案就是具體的內容探討,我們還可以在主條討論的時候再來深入討論。不好意思,因為時間的關係。接下來請王育明委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5441.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5463.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
謝謝主席,主席我們是不是有請薛部長還有法務部還有這個數位發展部請法務部汪參氏還有數位發展部林副署長部長好,部長我要先就教你這個有關於兒少性剝削的議題這一個偷拍的論壇創意私訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5466.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5467.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
你們說要盡快的來封網。我要問的是你們現在封網了嗎?目前應該還沒有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5475.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5481.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那卡在哪裡法務部也在書發部也在你們現在問題到底在哪裡從4月4號這個媒體報導傳出來到現在也已經好幾天了那我們要去阻斷這一些不當的對於兒少性剝削的影像的散布我覺得最關鍵的是在這個網路上面可以盡快的讓他下架或者是封網讓這樣子的一個不當資訊沒有管道繼續再散播繼續對這一些未成年造成傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5503.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5528.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
但是我現在看到的是好像衛福部、疏發部跟法務部你們橫向的溝通聯繫是不是有困難?這幾天你們有開過會嗎?有針對這個問題去做一些討論嗎?該委員報告目前實務上面在做這個封網的大概有兩個方法第一個就是有了一個行政處分要他去下架他沒有下架才用封網 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5529.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5550.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
第二、檢察官在查涉及到刑事時可以做扣押,等於說做為證據,扣押下來做為證據,就可以把它封掉。目前這兩個部分的話,因為第一個部分它是兩階段,要先做行政處分,要求它下架。 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5551.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5565.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5568.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5586.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
所以我們因為那個有關於這個現影像的這一個部分的話還有這個我記得中檢是不是還沒有還沒有那個還沒有結案北檢北檢還沒有結案所以事實上是可以做所以我們現在會跟法務部這邊來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5587.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5612.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
現在已經可以做嗎?對不對?已經很確定嗎?這一個論壇就是有在販賣這樣的兒少的性剝削的相關影片嗎?不過委員剛剛有提到說要修法,我是建議當然我們這邊也會努力,未來修法的時候對這一種網站,兒少的性影像的網站的話是架設到國外的話, |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5613.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5621.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5639.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5666.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我非常同意,就是未來再修法,一個是加重,因為這一次緩刑大家都輿論嘩然第二個就是你剛剛講的賦予主管機關你一旦得知發現你就可以即時啟動進行相關的封網的動作我覺得這個才可以真正去阻斷而且你這樣子比較強力的行政的介入我覺得才能保護到這些耳哨所以我也很支持部長剛剛提的這個修法方向,我們一起來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5667.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5675.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及� |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5687.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5701.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
都可以齁。好。那我希望這個未來三個部會其實是要非常密切的來聯繫的。第二個我要就教部長是最近的中毒案件真的非常的多。那媒體有統計喔。光是這邊列出來就好幾例喔。這個是不分縣市啦齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5703.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5709.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5718.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5735.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
草案案件重篤人數要達到50人或以上者然後才會介入調查或者是配合介入調查當中去熱定他停業那這個50人當時是怎麼定的我覺得現在國人對於食安的標準越來越嚴格你可以看到我左邊列出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5737.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5764.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
新北這一團去台南那邊吃完東西之後是25人那25人也沒有達到你這個標準如果今天這25人媒體沒有報導的話請問他有符合你下面說社會大眾關注事件媒體沒有報社會大眾就不關注囉那是不是就不用啟動這個調查也沒有辦法去勒令他停業這個標準是不是太寬鬆了因為最近大家在檢討保齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5765.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5773.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
草案案件時認為台北市的這個6人太寬鬆那中央這個50人之前定的這個50人不是更寬鬆嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5775.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5799.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
呃,跟我們報告齁,大概第一個齁,那一個說14萬人,那一個應該是錯誤是不是,沒有通報那麼多人有問題我這邊的數據是這樣,去年一整年的話是633件,然後人數是5千,差不多5千2百人那今年齁,到目前為止齁,那是446件,然後人數是2500,500人 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5802.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5830.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
草案事件有可能受到保齡事件影響,但有可能真的中毒事件變多。民眾勇於通報。至於委員在提到說這個50人或幾人,像說臺北市它是有一個6人,新北市10人。這是地方政府制定的,但是它的牽涉是這樣子,如果有這麼多人的時候是達成所謂的田業的標準, |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5832.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5849.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這個就有一點點麻煩了,因為比方說今天這個餐廳來訂了一桌是10個人,吃了10個都中毒,結果他要停業。但是同樣的餐廳來了6個人訂了一桌6個人都中毒,5個人都中毒不用停業。 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5851.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5874.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
但是事實上他所做的行為是一樣的所以他會產生一些可能在公平性的一些問題我想最後我們的想法在未來要做的一件事倒不是說要去處理這個幾人幾人的問題是嚴重的植物中毒事件比如說有死亡有進ICU的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5875.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5883.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這部分的話要怎麼樣快速的匯集資料那把這一個案子建立起來之後的話那就不管幾人就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5885.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5904.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
草案案件事務委員長,您說應該分兩個部分來談,一個是非常嚴重的,這個應該是只要一件很嚴重就是很嚴重,這個絕對要調查,像這次保齡事件就是這樣子。另外一類是最近的確會有很多這種,你看這個知名的王品集團他也有34例,這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5906.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5917.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5924.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5937.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5951.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5978.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
其實是有點你們中央定了這個標準之後地方你是授權那各自定各自的我覺得食安應該是一個標準就像你剛剛在講重大的這一個部分應該規範一個標準那其他的集體的就是出現這一種不是或是上吐下瀉的這一種也應該要有一個標準才對我希望你們回去之後再討論一下因為食安不應該是一國多制啦我覺得應該就是只有一國一制啦沒有一國多制啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5978.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5995.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
就是那個SOP可不可以讓它是更清晰我真的覺得最近的這個食安事件有點多啦那要去理解是為什麼是大家敏感度增加的多還是說因為環境在改變就像這一次我們過去台灣根本不會有這一個邦克列酸 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5996.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6003.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6026.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6041.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
醫療法草案案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、� |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6043.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6044.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6070.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6087.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
草案 誤導了這個病人。我覺得這個部分是中央機關應該要強力去把關。這在我們的草案裡面有。對於廣告的管理。好。那將來就一定要好好去落實。好不好?謝謝。好。謝謝王玉敏委員的發言。下一位我們請房秀芳委員發言。謝謝主席。我們請部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6102.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6120.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
部長好,今天會特別排這個再生醫療法草案還有再生醫療治劑條例草案是因為我們上一屆委員都非常的關心那上一屆也在這個委員會也充分的討論那很可惜就是說我們沒有願版的 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6120.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6148.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那我知道就是說我們這個衛福部這邊已經在3月20號將這個草案已經送行政院那我想請教有沒有可能在520之前是送到立法院目前的時間大概是這樣4月19那個行政院的政委就會召開審查會因為裡面的那個內容倒是講實質內容變化不大是也許一次審查會就可以通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6148.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6149.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案 案 案 規範 規範 規範 規範 規範 規範 規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6169.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6195.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
有關這個癌症篩檢每一年大約就是有400萬人次那在這癌症篩檢當中也可以篩出五、六萬人可能就是有罹癌那當然萬一如果有罹癌的話這些患者他當然希望能夠有更更好的這個治療除了這個一些傳統治療之外希望能夠有更好的這個更先進的治療副作用比較少的治療所以我們也希望就是說這個再生醫療法 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6198.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6207.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6213.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6225.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
醫療法草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6235.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6236.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6257.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6258.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6282.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6284.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
醫療法草案案案件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6306.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6320.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
當然再生醫療的運用範圍目前是還相當有限不過對於未來它的運用這種技術的運用的話其實是有大家都很高的一些期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6321.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6335.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
以目前來講的話剛剛委員所提到卡提的治療他是從病人身上先取得他的細胞然後還要送到國外去自備然後再回到國內來使用於病人身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6340.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6361.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
國內目前針對卡T的這一個類似的這一個部分的話也在進行人體試驗當中所以如果國內的醫療機構這個人體試驗是能夠成功的那當然就是可以在國內就把這個整個程序都做完那這樣子的那就有機會它的價格會下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6363.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6365.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
兼保有給付的部分也很沉重。 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6382.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6383.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6404.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6407.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6424.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6431.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
草案：一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6451.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6465.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
接下部長我想請教就是說我們在每一年大約有500位的兒童癌症病童那這個500位的癌症病童其中差不多有150位左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6465.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6490.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
草案案件事宜作為放療案件事宜作為放療那這150位其實這麼小的小朋友接受傳統的放射治療其實對他的腦部的發展其實有很大的阻礙也許做了放療之後他可能智力就會下降了那其實有很多醫師人員就是我們很多的醫師認為我們現在比較先進的一個子子治療 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6494.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6503.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6509.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6529.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
植物治療是針對的一些實體癌所以不是血癌那一類的實體的癌那難以用其他的方式去治療的那其中大概就是小孩子那這種神經系統的癌症的話那是一個比較好的一個方式那它的特點就是它能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6530.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6555.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
集中能量去處理這個癌,旁邊周遭的組織盡量會能夠保持,它的特性是這樣。目前我們健保署這邊正在研議,因為有相關的學會也提出來了,看有沒有可能在兒童的一些實體癌的case裡面能夠來做健保的給付,這現在正在評估。 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6556.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6576.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
其實我是認為就是說如果每一年大約500位的這個各種類的這個癌症病童那其中如果有150位他是適合做子子治療的話每一位的這個病童可能也許需要花費差不多將近100萬那如果是這樣子的話其實對整個健保的給付其實負擔不是那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6577.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6585.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
草案案件事務委員會長：立法院第11屆第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會長：立法院第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6596.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6616.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那我希望就是說衛福部那健保署這邊應該去考慮應該是去討論去檢討那是不是真的對我們這些癌症病童是有幫助那其實對健保的這個負擔不是很大之下那是不是可以把這個支持治療針對這個癌症病童的部分可以用健保來給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6617.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6640.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
當然是科學上應該是能夠證實是一個有效的治療。這是前提。我們不希望說這個就被濫用。那如果有效的這種治療受到證明的時候,那健保這邊就會去把這個可以治療的這個部分的話,那要怎麼樣去給付做一個研議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6642.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6642.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
醫療法草案案。 »: |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6671.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6683.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
在圖委員發言之前我先宣告一下等一下蘇清泉委員發言結束後休息10分鐘現在請圖委員發言好謝謝主席請我們薛部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6691.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6694.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
謝衣鳯等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6714.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6731.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6739.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6757.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6760.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6777.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
對阿因為我們後來據我們了解說因為我們的王必勝次長沒有進辦公室那我覺得說像這個如果王市長真的很忙那是不是其他難道完全沒有部長其他或者其他的人能夠來代理能夠來處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6780.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6804.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那我也希望我們下次來注意因為我們一直本來安排會議要去討論結果這資料一直沒有進來造成我們很大的困擾而且最後我們拿到的時候發現而且給我們的回覆真的不到400個字我不知道這個相關的計畫跟預算經費等等不到400個字就來交代好那請問一下我們部長那我們針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6807.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6820.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們2023年我們衛福部也有發新聞稿說支持我們部桃醫院新屋分院第二醫療大樓的興建那我請問一下這一部分我們現在有沒有預算什麼時候會動工什麼時候會完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6825.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6849.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這一個部分的話我們會支持擴建但是他所使用的預算並不是說報公建計畫我的印象中不是報行政院爭取公建計畫的預算而是由部桃這邊的作業基金去支援的我的印象中是那我請問一下現在到底進行到哪裡所以這 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6854.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6876.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
因為今天那個衣服會沒有來,所以實際上的進度我是不是請會後再提供資料給...好,因為我們對這個,其實這也不是說2023年我們衛福部才說支持新建,因為我想請問一下,因為這個早在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6877.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6890.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
蔡英文總統在第一任的時候她就有說這個案子已經通過可是我怎麼不知道說通過的結果現在怎麼感覺部長好像針對這個事情並不是很了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6892.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6910.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
大方向我知道說這個案子是通過的。那這裡面也包括說那個醫療大樓跟這個住宿市長照機構。那這個部分的話住宿市長照機構的工程費用這些的審查應該是已經完成了。已經完成了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6911.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6929.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那他的期程是就是說到116年2月應該是會完工這是諸日市場的機構那至於說那個新吳分院的本身的這個擴建這個部分的話應該是還在辦理當中因為這裡面好像有出現一些狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6940.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6964.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
所以現在到底卡到什麼問題因為據我們了解在2019年就是我們小英總統在第一任的時候那當然因為那個時候是距離第二次連任選舉剩39天的時候他也到那邊去也直接跟我們所有的鄉親說這個案子已經通過了那我不知道說這個通過的定義在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6966.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6982.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我這邊的資料是這樣子的。112年就去年7月的時候有召開了這個計畫的審查的會議。中間的話會有一些東西需要再做補件這個內容。但是後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6983.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7003.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
就是那個原來委託規劃設計的建築師就突然過世所以等於那個合約就要解除然後再重新再尋找新的這個規劃設計的人員所以可能是卡在這個地方所以變成是有delay |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7005.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7022.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那所以現在進度到底在哪裡?所以我說因為現在進度如何的話我並沒有說非常清楚我會後的話我提供那個訓練資料給委員因為這部分我們會提出來真的也希望我覺得我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7024.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7041.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
蔡英文總統也有講這個政策是需要延續的他這個在第一任的時候也信誓旦旦說通過所以我們已經等了4年多的時間從2019年我們蔡總統去新屋的時候就正式說這個擴建案是已經通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7042.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7062.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
然後後來我們的立委在立法院質詢我們當時候的次長石崇良次長也說這個自己的醫院責無旁貸那後來我們鄭運鵬市長候選人也當場也允諾一定會全力來爭取這個新屋分院 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7062.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7084.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那也在去年我們賴清德副總統他也說將擴建第二醫療大樓馬上即將要擴建可是很快你看從2019年到現在4年多再從去年說即將要擴建然後到現在感覺好像也看不到計畫書看不到這個預算這回去會再請他們要加緊 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7090.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7098.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那我是不是請我們部長齁也請部長來重視這個問題那我請問一下那這個資料大概什麼時候我們看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7099.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7121.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
目前進度的資料應該明天之前可以送到委員的辦公室。那至於說未來的這個要怎麼樣去推動的話,那我會再加緊來跟...好,我希望部長啦,我們也不要說明天啦,我希望一個禮拜內可不可以把我們這個部桃醫院新屋分院第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7121.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7140.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
科建醫療大樓的所有的相關時程計畫還有經費可不可以直接把這個資料給我們因為我們真的希望我們不要說選舉的時候你看剛剛很多的時間點全部都是在選舉之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7142.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7168.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
2019年是選前39天2022年是選前兩個月都把這些信誓旦旦都已經說通過可是最後我們追蹤的結果真的連這個時程計畫預算都看不到那也希望我們不管怎麼樣政策希望延續性也不要因為選舉而讓這些政策有所延待 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7168.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7196.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
草案案件事務委員邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員邱議瑩等25 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7199.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7222.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
委員好 部長好今天看到是需要討論再生醫療的部分不過在這個之前還是先請教一下有關於這個傳染病或者是食安問題來這邊跟部長做一些了解最後我們再來討論一下再生醫療法的部分那 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7224.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7253.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
今天的媒體有報導說好像國人有超過14萬的民眾他會拉肚子啊那這個的確是一個會讓大家很擔心的一個數字這個資料可能有一點問題啦他大概是跑健保的資料啦健保資料的話腹瀉他就是一個診斷嘛但是他並不表示就是食物中毒啦一般的腸胃炎等等這些都會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7253.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7266.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
是,所以食安跟如果有這麼多的民眾受到影響的話那算是可能是傳染病的一個可能的機會我們如果能夠是在請部長這邊有機會的話盡量的去讓民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7272.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7300.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
檢測過程,讓他知道怎麼樣去針對於他每天的使用這個食物啦或者是在多洗手這樣的這個好生活習慣能夠繼續維持,因為我們知道過去的疫情期間民眾對自己的健康意識就變得非常非常的生活很嚴謹包括他出門會戴口罩在家裡他會常常洗手不管是家人有沒有其他的相關的症狀都會很注意自己的生活習慣 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7302.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7325.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
疫情以後好像大家生活就變得比較鬆懈所以相對來講又剛好是進入到這個病毒或者是一些傳染病的高峰期再加上最近又有一些食安問題很多症狀或者是臨床表現會讓民眾或者是在媒體在做報導的時候就會互相的去影響到這部分就要麻煩部長或是相關單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7326.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7355.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
能夠除了加強衛生管理以外餐飲業者他更應該要注意這些處理食材的細節的同時也希望民眾也都能夠多注意一下他相關的生活細節因為我們知道那麼病毒其實他在初夏以後就會進入到高峰期所以這個互相交互影響之下對民眾他們會很擔心所以我想主管機關是不是能夠也利用這個機會多跟國人做多做宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7357.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7368.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這有關於諾諾病毒等等這一類的所謂的食物中毒跟平常的我剛剛提到的那可能在天氣變熱之後那腸胃炎會比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7370.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7386.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這一個部分我們會加強宣告對民眾的話怎麼樣來儲存儲備或處理他的食材、自有的食材。這個部分應注意的一些事項我們會來做公布。 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7388.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7412.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
另外因為我們現在外食的人很多所以對餐飲業者在處理相關食材的部分要注意哪一些事情我們也會在做宣導主要還是GHP的符合當然在衛生主管機關各縣市的衛生局的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7413.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7428.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們也會再跟他們來協調開會就是說未來在做餐飲業的GHP查核的時候重點應該在哪些地方哪些是比較次要的因為我們人力還是有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7430.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7456.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
好,我們從下一張影片就很清楚的發現在過去疫情那三年期間真的幾乎沒有腸病毒這是一個很實際的科學證據告訴我們說如果國人能夠重視一些生活健康的一些生活細節的話其實對某一些的傳染病的控制是非常有效果的腸病毒在過去三年疫情期間幾乎沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7457.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7475.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7477.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7493.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
剛部長有提到中央主管機關跟地方政府如何能夠通力的來守住國民的健康,尤其是幼兒健康真的是非常重要。就麻煩部長這邊能夠再跟地方主管機關一起共同來合作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7493.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7494.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7512.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7540.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那再過來就是討論一下再生醫療雙法齁那我們也知道去年當一個會期因為後來沒有辦法能夠成立這個通過這個再生醫療雙法那這個過程裡面當然會有蠻多的一些爭議或者是大家還對於這個醫療雙法可能會有一些擔心的部分那今天也看到在3月20號 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7541.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7555.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
已經把這個相關的草案進到這個行政院去做審查那剛剛部長提到說4月19號這個行政院本身就會去討論嘛那在這個過程裡面針對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7556.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7558.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7578.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7591.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好,那我們很期待說一個好的法案經過很完整的討論而且能夠實際上幫助到國人的話這是對於這部法案的期許那我們也看到國安會書面的報告說從這個105年 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7595.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7606.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
有關於這個細胞治療的部分從19億元成長到這個50億元那當中大部分這些治療都是自費醫療對於民眾來講如果他是經濟弱勢很難從這個治療裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7612.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7642.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
獲得他希望得到的成果,因為他可能連執行的機會都沒有。那剛剛也有委員提到說如果有機會變成健保的一部分的話當然他需要通過一個很嚴格的評估以後才有機會變成健保可以給付的一部分。那對於這些健康就是經濟弱勢的這個民眾就是至少在治療上可以銜接到如果他是一個未來標準治療的話是一個很大的福音。 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7643.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7666.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
卡提目前是有透過健保給付可以從原來的1500萬的智慧費用可以下降到每一個治療是819億所以代表說我們的健保真的是對於民眾的這些疾病的治療可以帶來很大很大的幫助同時又能夠減輕他的經濟負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7668.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7692.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以對於這個未來的再生醫療如果雙法通過以後那在健保的使用上當然我們很期待有更好的可能性那對於整個臺灣的醫療產業也能夠得到很大的發展所以這部分很希望部長這邊能夠繼續的來努力好謝謝麻煩部長謝謝謝謝王振旭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7699.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7701.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
接下來請蘇清泉委員發言。蘇清泉委員發言。蘇清泉委員發言。蘇清泉委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7721.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7747.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們這個再生醫療是目的啦是說現階段的技術醫療技術沒有辦法治療或者是恢復透過基因治療細胞治療或者是組織工程等技術來解決癌症遺傳病或一些不可恢復功能的疾病所以這個本身是一個主要的醫療還是輔助醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7751.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7765.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
以目前來講的話還在許多還在試驗階段或者是剛剛通過的那累積的個案數仍然不多啦所以以實務上面來看的話大部分現在是作為一種輔助的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7768.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7790.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
部長講對了所以這幾年事實上用特管辦法來做已經做了5年喔那這5年的成效是怎麼樣?有產生什麼問題?成效的部分的話會有其實有一些成果我們是有公開的在我們的網站這部分是不是我請市長來回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7793.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7814.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
組織修復類的已經完全公布在那個網站上面對於就是說退化性關節炎或者是困難癒合的傷口的部分的話他的療效是真的有幫助包括了傷口縮小的時間包括了那個退化性組織關節炎的疼痛的改善這在客觀數據上面都有蠻明顯的成效這個法這兩個法本來在上一屆就要通過了就上一屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7821.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7824.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案案件件件件件件件件件 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7843.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7865.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
沒有啦 這個本來上一屆就應該通過的嘛那現在搞到現在連驗榜都沒來要怎麼審啊因為這裡面上一屆審查過程當中發生了一些爭議的問題的話其實我們也必須要做處理啦所以這部分的話我們也做了細部的一些修正啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7869.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7894.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
日本也搞了很久了日本他們有發現說他們2022年有做了一個結論就是說他們也都是98%都來做臨床治療然後只有92%在做研究發展所以會私交會走偏所以台灣你要通過這兩個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7896.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7912.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我當然是樂觀其成但是這個後面衍生的問題那一個是醫事師在管這個申請的然後呢這個治劑的條例又是食藥署在管 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7913.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7927.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
然後剛剛有委員說希望那個如果可以健保幾戶的話那更好那健保署有準備好不好那這兩個部會要分開管會不會有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7928.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7947.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那有的人說這個是要用藥廠ZMP嚴格管理那我們這個不是就成立一個公司啊就可以搞我去參觀了將近7、8個實驗室啦那你這些實驗室現在的規格是要用P2 Plus或P3的實驗室我都不知道捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7950.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7964.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
其實是在這個領域裡面分的大概就GDP跟GMP啦。GMP大概類似像藥廠這樣子的規格去管。那GDP的話就比較是就是說一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7967.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7996.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
實驗室,尤其是在醫院裡面的。醫院裡面不太可能去符合GMP的那個標準。所以柏定說得對。那我是很怕失控。失控就是說不實的廣告啦、誇大療效啦、漫天喊價啦、然後用會員啦、然後名不符實啦等等這些都要遇。因為日本要做啊,做就有問題嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7997.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8014.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
草案案件事宜,不然的話到時候... 這個裡面除了廣告之外,其實有一個重點,那在過去醫療法裡面沒有去做處理的。那這一次在再生醫療法裡面就有處理,就是什麼呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8014.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8016.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
不是醫療機構去做這種再生醫療。 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8017.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8043.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
以前的話不是醫療機構去做這個醫療行為的話是處罰那個個人用那個祕醫罪去處理但是那個機構沒有事情比如說有人開公司,裡面有一個人說可以幫我們做美容或什麼的整形手術,結果抓到那個人這間公司一條關係都不正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8047.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8060.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
醫療法草案．立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8071.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8093.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
現在都是在診所啦說醫院抽血抽一抽然後如果這個醫院裡面這個公司有在在醫院裡面有實驗室那就在醫院裡面做那如果沒有送到外面的公司實驗室做做完再拿回來在診所或醫院施打那這中間會出問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8096.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8112.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及� |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8120.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8141.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
一家生技公司如果你合法的跟醫療機構合作由醫療機構委託他去做這些細胞的自備那回過頭來在執行的時候是在醫療機構這個沒有問題但是如果他自己去找民眾來做這個就是我剛剛講的那個我們就要加重處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8144.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8166.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
生技公司幾乎是不可能自己去做。所以一旦有看到這種再生醫療的廣告的話那就取締。再來如果發生糾紛或者是出問題打的時候出問題這個是他們要用商品保險或者是外面要用要害基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8168.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8193.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
醫療法草案：一、審查namon 再分兩個啦。如果是在於再生醫療法的技術的面向的話,當他們來申請就是說要我們核准的時候,我們就要看他是否有這個責任選,產品責任選。但是如果他已經走這個製劑條例,那通過FDA的審查,那他會變成再生醫療製劑,這個時候我們就走要害救濟。 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8195.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8210.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那沒有這個治具條例裡面的那就用他們自己的商品保險你現在說的意思是這樣嗎是啊那這樣會出問題喔不會啦不會啦不會啦我是替你煩惱然後再來最後一個問題你說這個測管辦法實施到現在我們申請的九百多個嘛是嘛五百多個案件通過了三百多案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8225.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8236.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
五百多個案件然後那6個6個6個疾病可以用嘛對不對那外面在打的他們說黑數差不多7萬到10萬有沒有這回事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8238.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8260.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
法草案案案件,這可能都是公告的問題,打著再生醫療的名義,做這些,其中有很大一部分就是剛剛我跟委員講的這種狀況,所以我們很期待這個法趕快通過才有這個處罰的依據,不然以現在的法要去處理這個只有醫療法的廣告或不當招攬,它的處罰很輕, |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8266.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8269.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8281.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8288.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8308.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8309.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8323.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8347.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
所以這個法要趕快通過我想朝野都不會那個藍綠都不會去擋但是要趕快把這個亂象把它導正啦這個讓百姓花那麼多錢啊人家叫我打幹細胞啊我想一想看一看我還是不敢打啊我還要住在那處很疊的海啊所以這個是很重要的好部長加油謝謝好謝謝蘇清泉委員我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8364.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8369.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8990.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8993.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案案件事宜﹖一、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、二、審查一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9020.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9029.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
基本上要將特管辦法法制化啦齁但特管辦法從2018年9月6號公告到現在已經多少時間了18到24超過6年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9034.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9051.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9057.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9074.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
第二,前項報告的內容應包含治療案例數、治療結果、發生的不良反應或異常事件其他經中央主管機關指定的事項第三,中央主管機關必要時得公開醫療機構的治療統計結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9078.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9096.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那我覺得今天很多的爭議就是在這裡我光是不談這個其他的這個未來的因為院的版本還沒有送進來嘛那我們先就你目前的法規那我們就要請教就是說你們在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9098.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9124.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
有沒有將自體免疫細胞治療他這個適應症的範圍裡面中的簡單的說啦你們治療實體癌第四期的啦治療第一到第三期實體癌經標準治療無效的啦或是血液的惡性腫瘤經標準治療無效的這三類的這個施行結果報告有沒有放上衛福部的網站專區 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9129.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9149.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
藥效有公佈啊,退化性膝關節炎啦,軟骨缺陷的啦,皮膚缺陷的啦,或者是慢性或滿六周沒有癒合的困難的傷口,這個你們都有公佈,療效。 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9151.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9176.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
但是我們剛剛講大家在講細胞治療大家看重的不是只有這裡大家最期待的案例數最多的都是要治療血液腫瘤一到三期經標準治療無效的或者是實體癌已經第四期的你們公告了病人數可是這個病人數裡面我也必須要講比如說以實體癌第四期為例798個 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9178.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9179.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
草案案件事宜委員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9195.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9218.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
但你們公告了療效好的退化性關節炎的傷口困難癒合的皮膚缺陷的你們都公告了那為什麼具體治療癌症這就大家期待的再生醫療還有細胞治療的最核心的你們只公布案例數而對於說法律裡面講的說這個療效 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9221.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9244.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
還有這個不良反應的,你們通通不願意公佈呢?我覺得公佈數據是最科學的啊。是啊,這部分的話當然,但是它有一個比較不好處理的地方,就是說療效。這個療效一般像癌症治療的話,它會去看比如說5年的存活率,就不會那麼久。 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9246.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9250.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
現在五年了,怎麼還沒到六年了?因為大家所值的理由在這裡,我們都不反對細胞治療,我們都支持再生醫療。 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9265.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9282.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
但這個前提是大家都知道大家支持他都認為說他是正統的常規醫療標準醫療之外大家都相信認為是最有療效的可是療效有沒有公佈你們都可以公佈其他的為什麼這個光是再生醫療的這麼多品項裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9285.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9294.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這我們可以再來討論一下。你們是選擇性公佈?不是不是,因為主要是療效這個東西,你如果說不對的話,會讓人錯誤解決。所以你如果對或不對,你就沒辦法判斷啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9300.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9305.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
你現在說不對會被人譴責,到底你的方法、你的細胞治療、你這間細胞整備場所、你這間公司跟醫療機構治療的個案是有效還是沒有效,你現在就沒辦法判斷了嗎?這種癌症的東西有時候有效沒效不是這樣看,不是說一個就一針見血。 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9323.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9337.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我沒有叫你一針見血但我跟你講已經56年了你還告訴我說你判別不出來那是要多久你才判別的出來2018到2024了你們對於自體免疫情報治療的項目的施行結果那到底有沒有療效你不知道但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9351.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9368.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
到底有沒有不良反應你至少會知道吧也可以公告吧因為現行的透管辦法已經首開了醫療技術的免臨床試驗申請核准就能治療的先例都不用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9370.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9386.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
犯了正常的醫學程序一般正常的醫療新醫療新技術新藥品都必須做完整的人體試驗所以甚至有的是藥廠要花錢花大錢去找人來做人體試驗而現在這一種是我給你當實驗白老鼠 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9390.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9394.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我自動花大錢給你不是藥廠給我們錢是我們給藥廠錢在這種狀況裡面我們也不反對因為只要有希望有機會我們也可以支持但是他我們都知道他有一個道德上的風險道德上的風險自古以來就有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9411.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9421.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9438.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9456.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
但是我們今天講說那沒關係那這麼多公司在做哪一個才是有療效的你公告給這些病患的家屬和病患看至少他還能夠選擇一家是真正療效是比較高的機構吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9460.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9485.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
大委員在剛剛有一個地方講的不是很準確所有的這些再生醫療的技術通通要經過人體試驗沒有完整的人體試驗我要知道你要一期還是二期還是三期你現在特管法規定沒有我跟委員報告就是這個細胞治療基因治療的人體試驗跟藥品的這個臨床試驗是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9488.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9516.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我現在問你啦,你現在特管法對於細胞整備場所,就是公司,一天你的細胞出去在體外透過實驗室培養大量的細胞,再到醫療機構請醫師給你打回去,然後去治療嘛,那你告訴我,你可以做到這樣的治療的,這個你核許通過的這一些細胞整備場所,它除了一期的安全性以外, |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9517.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9544.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
他要做二期嗎?他要做三期嗎?通常這一類的話一、二期是一起做的。我問你那多少人?你告訴我多少人?每一個個案會不太一樣啦。這每一個計畫第一期要做多少人?這個有法律規定來什麼個案不一樣?有啦!你擬一個,這是技術性。通通都是!都是! |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9545.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9548.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
幾十個?三十個?五十個?就是這樣子啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9548.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9548.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那個是藥品! |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9548.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9552.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那個是藥品!很多這種技術的喔! |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9552.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9553.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那是更少嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9553.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9555.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
你要到三十個齁?你只要一四人! |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9555.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9556.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
所以更少嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9556.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9557.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
少了就不對嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9557.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9558.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
沒有啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9558.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9561.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
人家剛才在說十多個核准在做的七百個! |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9561.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9562.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
地下在做的七百個! |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9562.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9563.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
你不記得剛才蘇青泉在說報導者也報導一個業者的說法! |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9563.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9564.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
就是這樣子說! |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9564.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9564.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
人家是燒金拿錢去做! |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9564.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9564.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
地下我也做! |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9574.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9594.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
檢測檢測檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9595.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9618.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
藥藥藥藥藥藥藥藥藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9619.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9643.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
醫療機構向病人所宣稱的療效都是病人以為找到了救命的那個稻草所以都不惜傾家蕩產那我們法規規定的要公開的應該給大家知道有沒有療效已經法規五六年了然後有沒有不良反應你們通通都不公佈然後我們不得而知然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9645.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9654.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
你讓我們這樣子知情全部不對等的狀況,你覺得醫病關係會對等嗎?這一部分的話我們來檢討啦,看用什麼樣的方式來做公佈啦。你知道現在到111年12月月底治療實體癌第4期的病人到798個。治療1到3期的102個,血液腫瘤的11個,這個已經上千人了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9672.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9675.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9699.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9726.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9727.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9750.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
有一個他們訪問的業者他是特管辦法裡面合格的自備廠之一後期也有私下接案他也執行了許多地下化的細胞治療他說他3年內治療3億元但是他的重點我要講他說他的重點目前特管法通過的治療都以具備安全性為前提但是他說這是業者說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9753.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9781.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
竟然是安全性審查為什麼這麼嚴為什麼要限制什麼階段癌症才能治療他認為啦前端應該要放寬但後端要收集數據公佈治療效果不要像現在好的生技公司細胞這個跟不好生技公司的細胞這種差別無從判斷所以消費者用用藥人也不知道所以業者的優劣競爭也不會出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9782.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9803.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
他認為要避免地下化層出不窮的一個關鍵就是要公佈治療效果所以不要讓劣幣驅逐良幣良幣要突出讓好的自備場所應該更具有這個被知道的權利因為不論業者或是一般民眾數百萬為家人散盡家財來做的細胞治療 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9804.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9832.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
大家都想要不論是業者好的業者或者是病患都想要知道一個透明公開的治療效果到底是哪一家嗎那我們在這裡說我們特管法至少還規定治療結果多少案例治療結果不良反應要公開但是你們上一屆送到立法院來的再生醫療法就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9833.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9834.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
醫療法草案 案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9837.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9858.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
雖然這個要求再生這個機構應該要這個跟中央主管機關報告他接的案例數治療效果不良反應但是沒有規定中央主管機關要每年公開這個醫療機構及細胞自備場所第一項結果的這個統計這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9866.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9888.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9891.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9910.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
你們的版本有沒有送這個條文?我們有這個條文啦,就是說要公開的這個條文啦。上一屆是沒有?上一屆是沒有?旁邊這個是我們的師長喔?上一屆送的時候他是有但是是得啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9912.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9919.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9936.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9951.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
特管法制裁講說中央主管機關必要使得公開,但是業者要每年都要給中央主管機關報告。沒有,這是特管法。我剛唸的是特管法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9956.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9984.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
好來你們上一屆版本第24條嘛對不對要我念給你聽嗎醫療機構執行第9條再生技術者應於每年度終了後6個月內或中央主管機關通知的期限內提出報告結果前項的報告內容應報告案例數效果不良事件及其他的規定只有要求向中央主管機關提出報告結果沒有談到要公開你們為什麼都在這裡睜眼瞎說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9989.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9993.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這條文就是不足嘛其實因為時間問題還有要討論的其實還有但是我來跟你講說我們談這一點不為過吧我們不反對而且做了6年了這6年裡面多少案例了 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10005.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10009.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10029.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10052.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我們來處理一下找出一個適當的公開方法特別我是更擔心什麼叫有效什麼叫無效你們真的有判定的依據嗎林委員我們是不是到主條的時候再深入的討論好謝謝林淑芬委員接下來請洪森翰委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10057.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10070.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及� |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10075.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10087.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事宜、審判案件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10104.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10127.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
你知不知道這個網站其實已經有非常非常多的受害人受害那甚至這其實就是一個犯罪的集散地部長知不知道我有聽說啦就從媒體這邊得到訊息部長我跟你說齁這裡面很多非常高比例的影片其實都是被偷拍被誘拍的性侵 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10129.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10130.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具〈再生醫療法草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10154.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10170.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10184.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10196.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我從媒體上面得知在網站曾經被封過但是後來他換了一個網域換了一個網域的話就...部長你覺得這個犯罪的集散地應該要存在嗎?不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10197.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10215.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那我們有沒有機制來處理這件事情?部長因為第一個它是一個國外的網站是那所以如果要處理的話就必須要封網對但是要封網的話我們現在只有兩種機制第一種機制的話就是有人檢舉之後部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10217.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10232.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
昨天訴發部其實說了喔他發了稿說如果收到衛福部命令的話他可以執行封網這封網大概但法律上面是叫做停止解析啦對不對說訴發部如果收到訴發部命令的話行政命令的話可以部長為什麼我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10234.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10260.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
沒有發出這樣的行政命令因為我剛剛在跟委員解釋就是說我們目前的話封網有兩種的作業程序第一個的話就是要有一個行政處分行政處分他如果叫他下架他沒有下架的話我們才做封網那第二種的話封網的機制是剪掉剪掉他開始進行政府部長我們看看法條好不好部長我們看看法條好不好我先跟部長我今天一些媒體在 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10260.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10281.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
其實昨天就有受害者再一次的來跟我們的影像處理中心提出申訴這個申訴的過程坦白說我等一下再說但提出申訴大家很希望衛福部就可以有明確的作為來停止包括封網但昨天當然衛福部做了但 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10281.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10291.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
只做了說要求下架不讓你看一下我們不管是在新鮮房房犯罪防治法第13條或者是兒少性波房子把第8條大概都有類似的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10293.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10315.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
如果我們知道這個網站上面有性侵害犯罪嫌疑的情勢主管機關應先行限制瀏覽或移除犯罪有關之網頁內容這是在性侵害防治法第13條而邵信波一樣有類似的條文我們的母法裡面是跟你說你可以去做先行限制瀏覽的工作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10317.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10344.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
但為什麽⋯⋯對就是先行限制瀏覽嘛對不對但我們現在沒有先行限制瀏覽啊剛剛部長說我們知道這上面有犯罪的情勢我們知道了按照條文衛福部就可以按照應該是要按照這個母法就可以執行限制瀏覽或直接移除犯罪相關的網頁資料這是母法寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10346.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10368.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
但我知道現在我們的問題現在問題是什麼下一頁我們在這裡面施行細則訂了一個前提說一定要我聯絡不到這個網路業者或者是我要求他下架他不願意下架我才可以做出即時的強制但這不是母法寫的這是施行細則啊部長我們現在是自己用施行細則把我們的手腳給綁住了 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10376.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10397.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
武法裡面明明就有說你知道這個網站上面有犯罪嫌疑的事實我們就可以做啊武法是這樣寫的啊所以部長不要怪到武法啊現在是施行細則把自己手腳綁住了設了前提你一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10398.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10426.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
通知你我如果通知得到或者是他可以下架一支影片的話那我就不能夠對他做整個網站的強制處分不然我要跟你說現在這些業者包括剛剛講的這個台版N號房業者他就是這樣幹他有十幾萬支影片你叫我下架那一支我就下架那一支我用下架一支來把我十幾萬支的影片繼續運作繼續可以被瀏覽現在他就是這樣幹 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10429.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10458.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以你今天叫他下架那一支影片他說好我願意可是為什麼他這一套可以規避是因為我們自己定的事情細則把手腳綁住了你反而沒有辦法執行我們母法原本的意旨啊回到剛剛母法部長這個母法就是你可以做啊你知道上面知有性侵害犯罪嫌疑情勢應先行限制瀏覽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10461.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10486.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
是這個意思吧?這邊的所謂的限制瀏覽跟移除的話就是我們一般來講的下架那我們也沒有限制瀏覽啊我們現在請問昨天那一位受害者他檢舉了以後我們有限制瀏覽嗎?現在有兩個概念我們必須要理清一個是對個別的影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10488.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10515.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
審視聯繫就下架。另外一個是對整個網站的等於就是要讓他無法接觸。部長,你這樣講是不通的。我們是在這13條跟第8條裡面,你用剛才定的施行細則,你剛才想寫的強制處置就是封網的其中一種方式。如果你這樣解釋第13條跟第8條的話,那你也根本就沒有權利可以封網。你現在窄化的解釋,又是再一次捆綁了自己的手腳。 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10515.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10544.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這是你剛才這個解釋是不通的如果按照你剛才解釋這只有針對單支影片的話那我們根本行政就不能夠封網可是你剛一開始的時候明明就是說行政上面是可以封網的是我們自己在施行細則設了剛才那個前提沒有這兩個狀況的確還是不一樣啊比方說我們在LINE我們經常在用LINE嘛對不對在LINE我今天就跟你討論有人上傳了一個兒少的這種事情我知道單支影片你可以處理但我現在問你是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10544.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10561.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
但是我不能封網啊我沒有辦法把整個LINE封掉啊你當然沒有辦法但我今天問題是今天這個網因為LINE不是所有都犯罪嘛但是現在剛剛這個網站上犯罪的比例這麼高都是性侵害的影片未成年的影片我們就該你剛才說它不該存在嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10562.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10580.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
對所以現在是兩個不同的狀況一個是所謂的下架是對個別影片的下架這個沒有我們上面寫先行限制瀏覽其實就是現在我們在說的停職解析嘛今天封網我也不是把你整個抄了而是我就是停職解析讓你在台灣連不上嘛這就是先行限制瀏覽嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10581.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10603.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
所以我今天讓這整個網站被停止解析其實是跟你條文裡面的意旨是相符的啊是你現在一直在限制載化你這個法律上面你的工具你一直在載化工具然後說我沒有辦法其實法條上面就是讓你知道你應先行限制瀏覽這個某部分在網站上面就停止解析就是封網的意思啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10604.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10629.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那如果是這樣子的話這個是大家的公式因為所有的施行細則的通過跟修正的話都還是要報到院裡面那立法院裡面來部長我當然希望我們母法接下來因為很多委員提出可以修法加重罰則這個之後大家會處理可是現在就這個封網上面的執行其實是在我們施行細則裡面把自己手腳綁住這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10630.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10643.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我要跟部長說第二點其實我們現在很荒謬都要受害者自己去檢舉以剛剛這個台版N號房的例子裡面對不起喔你要怎麼檢舉你還要付費先成為會員你要檢舉他我還要花一個很大的錢也許幾萬塊付費成為會員進到裡面以後我才可以取證截圖然後去 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10656.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10674.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
送到影像處理中心。」重點是什麼?我可能第一次做了這件事情以後下一次這個業者再把我的影片上傳一次我這個受害者或這個受害者他還要重複的流程再做一次他還要再一次成為付費的會員再一次想盡辦法上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10675.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10697.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
然後截圖取證才能夠再做一次部長你覺得不荒謬嗎這的確有問題這樣子不過我跟委員報告我在這邊順便就等於說跟媒體這方面做一個宣示所有的你在瀏覽這種社群網站我們都可以追蹤的到 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10698.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10708.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
所以你要成為他的會員有哪一天你就可能會被我們追蹤到這技術上面是可行的不然你可以這樣宣示那大家期待看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10712.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10732.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
懲罰者必須被制裁現在我們整套的法律制度裡面非常非常依賴受害者自己檢舉而且你還要自己取證喔而且你不取證對不起可能還不受理喔我們這個方法非常無法去處理集團式的性侵害引變的犯罪讓我把這個講完第二點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10733.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10757.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我們準備要做一個事情就是主動去搜尋。主動搜尋那這種有兒少色情的網站我們會主動去搜尋。第三個的話現在委員所提到這個我們會先行我們會發文給那個數位部、數法部來先把它封掉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10757.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10779.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
因為他是在國外的部長我跟你說我知道我們把它封以後他可能還會再換網域我知道但是對不起你換網域一次你還是有他的成本我能夠封你兩次為什麼不能封你一百次只要你是同樣的內容同樣的網站為什麼不能封你一百次所以就是牽涉到我剛剛講的第二點我們必須能夠主動去搜尋不必等人家來進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10780.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10809.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們現在都是要等人家來檢舉可是你要主動搜尋我們要有一些包括資料庫等等的建立我們才知道這個影片之前其實我們已經處理過了或哪些是在我們處理的範圍裡面這些有一些相關的軟硬體要建置這部分部長我覺得我們應該把配套提出來好不好兩個禮拜內可不可以提出這個配套我不敢講因為這必須要跟書法部再來做一些討論我知道這個技術是可行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10809.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10837.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
但是實際上要怎麼樣做?那個預算要怎麼樣來編?不然我時間沒了,但我最後要說我覺得我們法律上面是有給你們授權的不要再用施行細則不要再用執法把自己的手腳給綁起來變成我們很難作為我昨天聯絡了一整天都跟我說我沒辦法結果法條翻出來明明母法就有給你這個權利是我們在執法跟施行細則限制了自己我覺得這對很多受害者真的很不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10838.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10849.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10868.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10870.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案．1、2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、14、15、15、16、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、23、24、24、25、26、27、28、29、29、30、30、31、32、33、34、35、35、36、36、37、38、39、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10884.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10909.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
其實我只看到你們讓我第一眼看到的新聞是說你們司長出來說要跟黃子嬌斷絕這個合作很兩難。你們這個聲明我認為作為一個兒少保護的主管機關講這樣的話是沒有人能夠接受的。對啊這個是不精確的所以後來我們就發出這個聲明。那部長你的明確的態度是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10910.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10934.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
對,就是以後沒有機會再跟他合作。這個你們一定要站穩立場。好,那這個你們從一開始就是一個非常嚴重的失言。我認為作為衛福部你們應該要給大家信心做大家的後盾才對。這拜託一定要這個打擊未成年的性私密影像,這你們一定要非常積極才對。當然。 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10935.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10962.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那當然很多人都在討論說那接下來到底怎麼防治剛剛深海委員有講說發現我們現在防治的機制是不是不足才會導致這樣的犯罪形態不斷的重複上演那可以看到現在這種偷拍行為它已經是幾乎是一種產業化集團式的在犯罪那這種犯罪產業的會存在就是因為有人想看嘛就是有這樣的一個消費市場所以才像黃子佼他會不斷的花錢去購買甚至成為了高級會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10964.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10985.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那所以我們其實而肇性剝削條例在去年也有修法就是說持有你就算犯罪這個是我當然很肯定說我們不斷的有在進步只是說這個產業鏈到底最後怎麼斷掉這個是我們現在要討論的那當然其實這一次黃子佳的事件我去看了一下法律其實現在法律已經有很多事情可以處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10985.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11013.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
報告說就是現在兒童這種性犯罪本來就會有警政的資料庫去記錄然後這個兒童性播出的犯罪他也必須要接受一定的輔導那還有包括說如果你有散播這些性影像的話也是要予以重刑原本是三年以下現在已經加重到一到七年這個都是目前法律就有的規範但刑度可以再討論到底要怎麼加重但我認為現在最重要的是這種犯罪的樣態我們到底漏掉了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11014.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11024.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我想問一下現在這個剛剛這個台版N號房啊就是現在這個創意司房其實你現在去搜尋都還搜尋得到那我們什麼時候衛福部要給他斷網 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11026.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11051.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
因為這個網站是在國外所以我想數位部如果他已經講說他們技術上面沒有問題那我們就趕快發文給他們什麼時候今天今天可以好今天馬上發文就去把這個網站再次的斷網他們重啟爐灶一次你們就去斷一次有辦法做到嗎當然但是這裡我就是像剛剛盛鴻榮在問的一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11053.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11081.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我們要有這個權利去做搜尋。你們為什麼沒有權利去搜尋?這有一點問題。我們搜尋當然不會...你們已經封過他們一次兩次了,現在再去封他們第三次有什麼問題?我的搜尋的話並不是說針對某一個名稱的網站。我們必須要...因為他可能改個名、改個字啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11082.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11111.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
你就用原來的名稱你就搜尋不到所以我們意思就是說可能要能夠授權我們能夠去巡航誰要授權你們法律要授權因為這個可能會有一些隱私的問題但是我們去搜尋並不是說一個一個去看而是用技術這個數位的技術來做處理那把這個可疑的網站把它找出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11113.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11129.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
當然啦我覺得為什麼現在要主動出擊但其實剛剛我們也有把這個相關的法條找出來其實你們做到主動出擊並且把這些殭屍網站一個一個去做封網的動作就現行的法律你們是做得到的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11132.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11152.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
呃是剛剛委員在講的那個狀況的話我們會有困難也就是說我把他封掉了然後他又另外找一個網易用改革的名字他就跑出來你封完他他下一秒又復活現在這種僵屍網站就是非常多所以我們如果沒有辦法借用科技的方法去主動搜尋出來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11153.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11153.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11164.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11166.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11194.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11194.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11215.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11240.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
因為他們現在去看一下他們現在這種支付的方式可能都是用虛擬貨幣或者有人用微信甚至是他們是用國外的網站的國外的銀行帳戶在支付那這種其實法務部也有針對像是這種虛擬貨幣的詐欺案他們有一些虛擬通貨金流的分析工具可以追蹤到這些金流並且這些實質的這些使用者是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11241.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11245.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我認為衛福部應該也要用這個方式去直接破解這個產業鏈,可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11247.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11274.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這就是另外一個方法要去處理的一個方法因為如果把金流斷掉的話第一個就是說如果它是國外網站也許它還有全世界其他的客戶所以對它的經驗不會有影響但是我們是所以藉由金流去保住所以我們限制台灣人去在這種非法的網站消費嘛對所以這一個部分的話其實就是我剛剛有跟盛浩文報告的就是在這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11275.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11290.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我們是技術上可以去追得到誰在付錢看這個網站是的追到了就等於是我們找得到這一些去有購買行為的人而這些消費者他本身就是性犯罪的共犯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11292.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11307.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
對,所以說這個要請我們全國的民眾注意。好,以上這幾點拜託我們開始進行更實質的去執行。我們一定要杜絕這整個性犯罪的產業鏈好嗎?好。你要有這樣的宣示,謝謝部長。好,謝謝黃婕委員發言。接下來請賴世寶委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11329.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11334.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請衛福部的薛部長請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11339.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11344.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11363.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11379.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那沒什麼重要我是覺得你的機會還不小因為現在賴清德喜歡用他的人馬或者plus新潮流系啊你的財富都紅旗艙新潮流的大牢 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11380.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11380.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
邱議瑩等25人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11396.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11398.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11410.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11411.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
草案案件事務委員委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11439.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11455.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
長照跟老人的住宅機構需求大增目前我看到資料是全台灣有1700多家的相關機構提供10萬多個床位但是人不足1萬多現在幾乎失能者 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11461.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11473.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
入住型的機構等待時間短則三個月長則一年這很嚴重喔非常嚴重就長照機構缺人缺公公然後缺機構無處好躲 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11477.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11504.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這部分的話有差不多在10萬多的床位裡面其實它是有一些品質比較好的那這就要等很久但是有一些品質是比較這個中下的那這部分的話其實他們還有空床所以我們現在的我們現在的這一個政策的方向就是盡量把這個新的蓋的這些機構讓它能夠維持一定的品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11505.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11527.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
長照費用還夠不夠?長照經費夠不夠?夠啦!現在還有差不多1500多億的剩餘。現在什麼都給長照欸!兩歲合一!不是兩歲,房地合一!那個明明說有一部分要做社會住宅的,通通沒有做,都跑來你這裡!都給長照!然後又稅收也是你這裡!原來房子的錢也是給這裡!錢很多欸! |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11531.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11540.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
呃目前這幾年的話的確是每年的這個收支是有剩餘啦但是我們的需求會越來越高回過來看今天的主題啊請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11543.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11558.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
行政院已經通過衛生部提出來的《再生醫療法》跟《再生醫療藥物法》嗎?已經通過了嗎?委員板出來沒有?所以我們這一次的話已經提到行政院。還沒過?還沒,4月19到政委會開會審查。會不會過?我想過是一定會過,只是內容可能還會。所以4月19會過?最大的爭議品在哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11574.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11596.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
其實我們是針對上一次上一次的在上一屆的這一個爭議點我們做了一些修正那上一次的上一屆的爭議點最大的是在就是說那個免第九條啊對第九條第九條啊那一條我們有重新做了一個改變第九條因為你第九條是延續特管法 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11598.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11607.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
請問特管法是不是台灣獨佈全球2018年發佈的特管法全世界沒有了只有我們有是不是媒體都這樣講勒啊你法律沒有通過可以做什麼免人體試驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11619.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11620.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11635.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11651.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
大致上是三期但是這個所謂的醫療技術類的這種人體試驗跟藥品是有一點不一樣那從美國的那邊的指引在細胞治療跟基因治療的指引裡面通常他會一二期合併 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11652.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11672.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11679.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11708.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
藥藥藥藥市長講一下我先講一下就是特管法裡面他的有兩條的規定第一條的規定是針對就是已經安全性已經確定無虞的部分的話我們是用副表3的部分所以有6項自體細胞目前開放的主要核准的是以這個然後剛剛委員在講的是說如果自己有做人體試驗的自己有做人體試驗的可以循我們目前特管辦法的第14條來做申請目前還沒有案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11708.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11731.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
現在大家最質疑最大聲的就第9條那個門開太大就特管法裡面來講特管法我剛剛說過了全世界沒人敢用跟他打人敢用就是說一般我們都知道要開發一個要多久時間一期二期三期多少人做了這樣子然後出來出來出來還有第四期的人士事後監測等等的結果特管法一來這些都不要了 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11736.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11763.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
感覺得我們非常草率外界的反對聲音最大在這裡部分黨派喔部分聯社都反對你的第九條所以這一次我們這一個就做了修正怎麼修正兩個重點第一個所有的再生醫療通通要經過人體試驗除了兩個狀況第一個狀況就是恩恥療法那是個案審查的他已經沒有最後一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11764.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11792.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以來做這個恩賜療法第二種狀況的話就是特管辦法已經通過的這個移植過來這個不用重新做人力試驗其他剛剛委員在講的那個本來的第九條、第二條那個我們拿掉好,你注意看喔再推的你也是台大你也是台大法律系的研究所還有原來推的幾個跟台大的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11794.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11812.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
臺大學術界來講都在推可是臺灣的醫院臺大的醫院不推啊申請案子很少啊籠總也很少啊是不是然後所以現在好現在回到剛才幾個委員有提到的我本來要貼那個圖就不貼了就是啊現在很多的私人診所 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11813.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11823.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
就把這裡面有什麼問題,把它挖一塊它的人皮屋挖到送到生技公司送到國外然後再回來打進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11825.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11844.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生� |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11851.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11876.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
外媒體這個是可以討論的啦。因為未來的這一個法裡面可能會把它視為野生物啦。那個也是不合法啦。因為他沒有做過人體試驗。我就說這一個法的精神就是所有的再生醫療要合法的一定要通過人體試驗啦。不然的話會變成那種腐爛的廣告啦。這外面在亂做。 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11880.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11882.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一), |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11897.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11921.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
但是520之前不可能過,不可能申讀?大概來不及,520之前來不及。你就應該用這樣的理由去爭取留任。我就要讓這個再生醫療法通過,讓我繼續做,對不對?當然如果你這樣決定,然後商人也接手的話,很多民眾是會失望的啦,因為他們都希望你不要做啦,變成這樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11922.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11925.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
法草案案件事件的關係：委員邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件的關係：委員邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11935.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11937.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
草案案件事務委員委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11960.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11986.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
抱歉啦,因為今天時間的關係,很多委員要發言。那我在這邊做一個宣告,就是中午質詢到楊瓊英委員先休息10分鐘。好,那現在請黃國昌委員發言。那個,謝謝主席,我們還有請部長。請薛部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11990.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12003.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
委員部長之前蘇丹紅造成的食安風暴我在上一次質詢的時候我有請教部長你們對外的新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12004.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12026.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
以及提到委員會來的專案報告都說從2023年去年12月11號已經採100%逐批查驗檢驗合格才能夠輸入我想這個食藥署的新聞稿跟這個報告白紙黑字我都列在這邊沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12027.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12054.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
但有問題的事情是我上次就請教你如果是百分之百逐批抽驗的話我那個時候請衛福部公告你們進口的時間因為你們說百分之百逐批查驗這件事情是不是真的要被檢驗嘛然後等到你們公告了進口的時間以後我看就不對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12055.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12079.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
有到今年1月24號今年1月1號今年2月17號今年2月1號不同的廠商進來的時候而且喔這些都是違法的廠商喔進來了以後在逐批查驗的時間點後但後來流入到市場被查出來還是有蘇丹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12081.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12101.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
那我就很困惑啊 這件事情到底是怎麼發生的 這個主批查驗是假的嗎 請部長這一點謝謝委員的一個槌尋 後來我們就去查到底是怎麼回事那我在這邊還是要先道歉 可能是我們的指令不夠明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12102.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12126.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
百分之一百的這個抽屁這個部分的話在當時我們的命令下去之後那我們的這個這個食藥署在海關的同仁他因為原來都是以查農藥為主所以他以為就是百分之一百是農藥阿蘇丹齁並沒有百分之一百所以這是我們的錯啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12127.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12144.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
當初竹皮茶宴我們要防治的對象就是蘇丹紅啊。對,原來是農藥,因為農藥不合格的比較多啦,所以他們一直...沒有,去年5月的時候我們上次質詢的時候你不就在這邊承認了嗎?去年5月陸陸續續就發現了蘇丹紅嘛。對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12148.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12176.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
你們對外前面講的新聞稿從來沒有告訴消費者說原來我們主批查驗的是農藥不是蘇丹紅所以在剛好這中間大概有兩三個月的空檔就會出現這個剛剛委員提到的這個問題這後來我們查出來的結果是這樣那這個應該是我們上層的指令不夠明確讓這個我們食藥署的這個基層的同仁在那邊處理的時候就以為是 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12178.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12199.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
農藥百分之百那他又沒有把蘇丹火百分之百所以會漏掉兩批吧我記得是兩批有到今天啊真相大白所謂的逐批查驗我後來一直追這件事情到底是怎麼回事因為如果真的逐批查驗的話不應該出現這樣的現象嘛但是卻出現了這樣的現象結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12202.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12215.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我真的發文給衛福部我很有耐心的在等等說這到底是怎麼回事分兩趴第一趴是剛剛部長承認的說原來你們有逐批查驗檢驗的項目是農藥殘留但後面還有兩家對 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12220.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12241.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
保新的部分你們說在逐批查驗以後連續五批逐批查驗符合規定依照食品及相關產品輸入查驗辦法第10條第一項第二款查驗方式改採加強抽皮查驗這個就不是逐批查驗喔這個是誰決定的這個是誰決定的是請 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12251.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12266.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
跟委員報告其實我們在邊境的查驗辦法像這種逐批的就是100%抽批如果連續5批是合格的其實就會調降這是我們本來的程序就是如此跟你們給社會大眾給衛環委員會的專案報告從來沒有這樣寫過啊從來沒有這樣寫過啊我有說錯嗎署長我有說錯嗎請教署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12278.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12299.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
如果是採取監視查驗的話那就會永遠都不會調降除非到我們說要調降但是我們如果是100%有剛剛的問題啊是你們給衛環委員會發給社會大眾的新聞稿告訴社會大眾啊逐批查驗現實上面等我追下去才發現根本就不是這樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12300.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12327.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
剛剛部長解釋了農藥的部分那部長也很有風度我欣賞部長這種態度做錯就認錯抱歉我覺得這是一個政務官啊應該有的基本的風範而不是做錯了還繼續說謊還繼續硬拗我現在就有關於你們從逐批查驗改成加強抽批查驗的這件事情我請教署長的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12328.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12345.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
這件事情我如果沒有追下去你們給社會大眾的新聞稿給衛環委員會的專案報告從來沒有這樣講喔署長我有說錯嗎我想委員在提的這件事情的話的確是我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12346.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12365.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
兵境的時候查驗他的常規就是這個樣子但是今天這個案子已經不是常規了那我們再往後的時候也會做這個部分去做改善也就我們現在已經找出九種的這種高風險的不應該出現在食品的這種類的的裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12368.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12396.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那這九種物質的話一旦查出來的話那我們就是百分之一百的查就是說查驗而且是針對這一些這一些的物質去做檢驗部長有擔當喔出來幫署長擋子彈喔而且你的說明是對的我們來看一下這個食品及相關產品輸入查驗辦法第十條你們給我的報告援引的是第一項第二款嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12397.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12423.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
我不曉得衛福部的同仁是不是覺得立委都不會真的去查那個辦法長什麼樣子第二項怎麼寫的原採逐批查驗產品查驗機關基於衛生安全考量可以不適用前項第二款的規定嗎就不是抽五批沒有事情就可以接下來用抽的嘛就還是要逐批查驗嘛部長我對第二項法條這樣的解釋的理解有沒有錯誤呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12426.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12447.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
臨序五批,符合規定的那是第二款嘛,第一項第二款嘛但我現在代部長看的是第二項嘛就是剛剛部長所講的嘛你已經造成了危害,釀成了食安風暴當然,如果是屬於那一類的話那我們就不會降級啦所以本來就應該用第二項嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12449.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12469.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
部長我這樣說沒有錯吧應該是這樣子我希望部長就是說就發生這麼大食安風暴的時候我們竟然在給第一線的工作同仁的指令怎麼會出現這樣的差錯這件事情一定要搞清楚搞清楚的目的倒不是說現在要去追究誰處罰誰而是這樣的錯誤絕對不能再犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12473.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12490.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
可以嗎?可以。這我也已經有跟同仁交代了。就是說這個如果指令覺得不清楚的時候一定要回報。要把它釐清。OK。好。謝謝。好。謝謝。好。謝謝黃國昌委員。接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12502.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12528.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
主席謝謝麻煩請薛睿源部長請薛部長委員好部長大家都關心齁除了今天的這個再生醫療法以外這個性私密影像的防護也很重要很多委員今天也都有在做一個討論啊那我們來看一下就是說性私密影像在去年這幾個法修正之後上路到底目前面臨到什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12529.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12554.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
這是去年年底的一個報導他講說現在的成案率只有25%那那個時候幾個部分三大問題第一大問題申訴人沒有辦法確定說就是被拍攝的人所以需要在期限內補件提供更完整的資料那往往申訴人沒有繼續補件就沒有辦法成案請教這部分會不會變成是二次傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12555.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12585.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我已經是被偷拍了這個影像就確實就看起來這個當事人就說這個是我結果還認為是說欸沒有喔看起來這影像內部的人跟這個當事人報案人不一樣喔你要再提供那要提供什麼身體特徵還是要再多提供我的這個個人資料那明明對於當事人來講我已經覺得是說這個性私密影像被流入在網路上已經非常難堪或是非常不想再去回想了 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12586.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12613.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那我們要求要提供更完整的資料那沒有補件沒有辦法成案造成我們沒有後續的一個保障部長這能不能有更精進的作為這個其實還是有一個就是說證明的問題這大概避免不了那因為假設說這個成案的話那要做一些採取的時候那我們還是必須要有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12614.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12637.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我現在知道比如說看到一個網站上面那個影像已經是偷拍了我看出來那個是本人那個是個人然後你就說喔沒有喔這認定那你這樣子不就是逼著這個被害者再去回想或是逼著被害者還要再去提供更多的一個資料那你要認定那個是本人你才可以那是要提供身體特徵 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12639.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12649.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這個部分的話其實我臉這邊有一顆字那裡面那個影片裡面有一顆字之前有這個委員被偷拍那個就說那個是AI變造 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12650.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12679.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
這個部分其實也要做一點分辨就是說是否是兒少對於兒少的部分的話當然我們可以就比較清楚的就是說反正不管哪一個兒少我都是要你下架但是如果是成人的這部分成人是密照被上去做這種傳播的話的確會有一些困難因為成人如果是他自己同意的話基本上就不構成所謂的違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12680.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12707.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
所以變成就是說要去政府...信使命引向防護的精神不管你剛剛講兒少或是信使命引向其實這追根究柢就是什麼就我們希望是能夠保護只要有報案然後而且是從寬認定嘛其實你剛剛講的也有一點點抱歉部長我必須要糾正也有一點點矛盾你說兒少認定比較那可能你是看他的一個身體特徵或是說相關他的臉部看起來比較童顏 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12708.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12718.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那你這樣變成是說還是變成是主觀認定你沒有一個才就是你的行政機關沒有發揮你行政機關應該有的保護的一個效果成案率只有25%欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12721.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12745.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
這是去年年底的報導。那現在呢?成案率有沒有提高?有沒有能夠更精進的作為?有到六成可以成案。好,那我再來看第二個部分。這一點我真的是非常的覺得匪夷所思啊。你看他講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12747.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12770.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
當網站被申訴的時候要聯絡網站的業者發現這個業者只有電子郵件信箱或不予回應然後許多負責人各自設不公開需要說明需求才能取得或是花數萬元加入平台所以怎樣我們的衛福部或我們的行政機關變成是我們付費給這種社群的網站我們變成是資助者啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12772.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12791.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我們付費給這個網站然後告訴我們先付了一筆錢國家的納稅人的錢給這個網站之後然後才能拿到這個網站的一個聯繫方式那那位業者再不回你再不理你那變成是我們公權力公部門拿國人的納稅錢去加入社群網站這樣講對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12794.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12804.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案．立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12819.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12825.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一), |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12846.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12871.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
對啊,這一個的方法是不太...所以我在講其實最後的關鍵我不用求他敢在國外架設一個IP架設一個網站然後上面放那麼多的那性私密影像非法的合法的不管怎麼樣他敢拿那個來獲利那已經是就是犯罪者我們還要跟他我付費給你來跟你溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12873.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12896.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
公權力被看小,那還有這種犯罪者就不應該溝通嘛你就應該是如果我們沒有辦法在源頭如果他犯罪地是在國外我們至少能不能阻絕不讓他跟我們台灣連結所以這就是封網的部分來最後一段性影像如果沒有辦法網路下架那至少限制瀏覽也就是封網的後續處理到目前為止封網的案件數是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12897.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12904.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12924.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12952.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
那上午有傳到還講說數位部要等衛福部發文衛福部說是內政部的工作還是法務部的工作你們三個部會在互踢皮球是不是我們下午就發文給數位部數位部就採取行動把它封掉了那所以我也問啦說實在話到底衛福部認為這件事情是數位部應該要主動來先做當遇到這個事情到底是衛福部主責數位部主責還是法務部主責 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12953.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12974.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
當然以兒少性剝削條例的話是衛福部的主管但是技術方面的話其實衛福部是沒有這種能力的所以一定是要跨部會的合作所以溝通上來講是不是應該更加強溝通上來講一定要更加強因為當本席看到說去年年底居然講是說蜂網的案件是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12974.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12999.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我講如果說是性私密影像或是未成年的這種影像的話它就是犯罪物犯罪物還可以容許說用這種非法網站來去兜售還來去加會員來去賣錢如果說今天這犯罪物變成是毒品呢我們有可能容許說毒品可以用網站上面來購買嗎如果說這犯罪物是槍械呢我們能夠容許說有一個非法網站上能夠嫁來到台灣然後來販賣槍械嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13002.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13013.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
如果不行 那為什麼我們會縱容未成年的性私密影像所以應該要動起來的時候公權力絕對要動起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13015.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13039.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
當然這裡面我們也期待說未來如果說貴院要修法的時候去考慮一件事情就是在法律上面授權我們去主動做偵查那這個偵查不是說真的一個一個去看而是說藉由科技數數位科技的一個方式來去偵測說有哪一些網站的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13040.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13067.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
比較有可能然後再擬具我說真的這個事務發布今天有這個副署長來副署長不用上來啦事務發布我說實在兩百多億給你們公務預算你們不是就應該做這個事情嗎一年半的時間給你們成立了到現在不就是應該做這個事情嗎這種東西還是要立法嗎當初數位發展部成立的時候不就是應該做這個事情保障國人的權利至少在網路世界裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13069.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13096.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
結果現在居然還要衛福部長來講是說要我們立法我講不客氣的這根本就是互踢皮球今天上午為什麼我會那麼生氣就是因為今天上午我們聽到媒體還在問說是衛福部、速發部還有法務部三個人互相在講是說權責是誰的時候就莫名其妙這件事情都已經燒到那麼嚴重了大家都已經關心到這個程度了好像只有我們官員還在睡還叫不醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13098.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13120.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
紅委員因為時間的關係很多委員還要發言那會後再請那個部長再說明清楚好那我再重新宣告因為發言委員有對調順序那再重新宣告發言至現場我們書巧會委員發言結束之後再休息10分鐘好那接下來請楊瓊英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13129.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13155.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
謝主席。我們再請部長。請薛部長。委員好。部長。我相信大家都是堅定的對兒少保護的立場。一定是權力與父嘛。對不對。好。你頻頻點頭我們繼續討論喔。因為我們一再要求說你修訂的兒少性剝削防治條例加重法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13156.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13177.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
法則,那你昨天回應說去年你已經修了將這個影像的這個部分由行政法改為刑事法。行政法改為刑事法。那麼現行條例有持有兒童或者是少年的性影像,那但是他最終只有一年刑責。 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13178.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13203.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那還可以就是說繳錢了事你認為這樣夠嗎?造成現在這個事件這麼大的傷害你認為這樣子夠嗎?去年在修法的時候其實就是要把持有這個納入到刑事處罰的範圍的時候也引起了很多的爭議後來終於有了這個一年以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13203.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13221.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
那現在當然因為這個事件那可能委員大家都覺得說應該要加重刑法那這個衛福部的立場是競表同意但是衛福部的立場是什麼您拉高一點競表同意啦競表同意嘛還好因為本席也提案好所以接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13223.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13242.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
草案：一、審查 »: 因此,您的立場也是同意要加重,還好。方向是一致,我們就好好繼續來討論。我們也看到了美國、德國、韓國這些國家,它不僅是持有而已,它包括了購買。 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13244.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13265.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
草案、儲存、觀看、未成年非法的攝影影片都有這個刑責所以本席要請教這樣子的案子它已經不是個案所以針對於我們這個捍衛兒少權益那你還有什麼積極作為那你是否同意本席也提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13265.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13279.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
也就是徵定對性犯罪加害人施以強制治療來減少犯罪的載攬。請教部長。一個就是說未來這一個還可以什麼積極作為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13281.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13307.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
有一個部分的話就是我剛剛也跟其他委員回答過的就我們希望說法律能夠授權衛福部能夠去做主動的去偵測那些兒少性那個授權的網站能夠去主動去偵測啦把它找出來找出來才能夠後面去做處理但目前都是仰賴的是這個所謂的檢舉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13308.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13326.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
第二,對於性犯罪加害人施以強制治療。這個部分我們是持比較保留的態度。因為從學術上面的研究來看,這種性犯罪的加害人通常都有反社會人格違常的問題,那個沒有辦法治療。 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13328.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13349.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
福達,你現在回答到這裡第一個基金你認為需要給你有上房保健可以主動偵查這是第一個第二個你認為強制治療這是沒有必要的你認為是反其效但是你有沒有思考一個問題到目前為止我們是嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13350.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13368.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13374.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13400.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那我們的政府目前在做什麼呢?你剛剛回答我們紅委員說你下午才要公布你是主管機關單位吧?行政部門裡頭你是主管機關單位嗎?針對這樣的案件你是主管機關單位嗎?你不要緊張我們好好來討論我們不希望沒有螺絲不是只有螺絲鬆而是沒有螺絲來本席要請教您是不是主管機關單位那數位部的立場是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13401.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13407.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事宜﹖一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13426.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13452.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
內政部的話是在警察的部分的話是我們有一直都有這一方面的合作沒有主動協助你嗎?已經成為一個社會事件這麼嚴肅政府沒有螺絲任由民眾在那邊擔心那這怎麼辦?那這怎麼辦?你今天說希望你能夠授給你上方保健部長你先鼓勵先站起來啦這一個政府應該是團結作戰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13454.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13456.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
事由：一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13482.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13506.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
藏多少天了?藏多少天了?藏多少天了?對不對?不要再蘇丹洪事件了啦!你突然在這邊道歉也沒有用啊!好不好?部長,這事不用客氣啦!該當要請求協助!大家應該主動欸!而不是如此欸!攤在那裡!這是什麼政府啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13507.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13523.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13524.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13546.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
你們什麼時候會送來?沒有行政院版,我們自己在審。我們在地方看到,大家民眾對於這個法案是很期待的。因為現在一個人就要八萬。有多少個家庭有辦法?生命誠可貴。有辦法沒有資料去給他。這政府有責任的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13549.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13549.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13566.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13583.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
你曾經說過喔你說過齁這個這一次的草案條文跟上一次沒有太大的差異對基本上的架構沒有太大差異你說只有順序上有條動爭議的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13584.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13592.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
請問有跟社會對談嗎?有沒有?那既然有跟社會對談為什麼你會說一個他的條文跟上次沒有太大的差異?上一屆就是因為沒有辦法達成共識所以我們給時間趕快去對談那可是你竟然會這麼回答我覺得跟你本人在做法是不一樣的有沒有受到什麼壓力啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13612.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13634.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
這個部分我們有做調整對於上一次產生爭議的部分我們有做調整沒有太大的差異這個聽了嚇人欸因為如果差異非常大的時候我們就必須要重來從預告這個整個程序再開始那樣子的話會緩不濟本席再跟你講十指內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13635.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13649.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會議（事由：一、審查netesle等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事由．一、審查netesle等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事由．一、審查netesle等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事由．一、審查netesle等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事由．一、審查netesle等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事由．一、審查netesle等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事由．一、審查netesle等21人� |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13659.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13687.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那你趕快送來,那人家看到你這麼努力就會虛認啊。沒關係喔,還好你這麼說啦。所以我們努力做,好不好?因為這個社會大眾很期待,就是未來你怎樣可以納入健保在不影響整個健保體系的情況之下。對不對?因為我們現在看到診所,我也要謝謝你。之前因為疫情,再一句話講,因為疫情的關係,所以我們的診所體系我們很怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13688.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13716.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13727.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13749.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
麻煩請部長。請薛部長。委員好。部長好。在4月3日的大地震之後,我有前往花蓮去勘災,等一下也要再趕去。所以我們先來關心一下災後的一些問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13751.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13753.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13772.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13785.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
有些人在這場地震當中與家人天人永隔了,那如果就是說有些甚至目睹了親人被剝奪生命的情況,那是非常嚴重在心理上是非常嚴重的創傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13787.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13815.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
而在這一場地震當中有許多人身體上有受傷但是無論是罹難者的家屬傷者本身或者是照顧這個照顧者的照顧傷者的家人他們現在可能都在忙於就是說處理眼前當下的一些一些問題那可能自己有一些這個就是說沒有發現說自己可能有一些這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13816.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13818.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13834.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13856.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
這部分的話那災後心理重建的其實在當時那0403的時候我們就啟動了那是馬上緊急進去那有些這一個受災戶或者社區的民眾他監控的部分他必須要有人去做安撫那這是當時發生的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13859.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13873.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
然後持續的我們是跟這一個地方的衛生局也就花園衛生局還有幾個那個協會心理諮商臨床心理學會工會去合作設置這個安心關懷站 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13880.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13897.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
這部分到了4月8號的時候我們累計算了大概派了這個心肺中心就衛生局的這個心肺中心的同仁那大概有83人次那心理師有27人次累計是服務了600多位的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13898.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13912.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那接下來的話那就是會由這個社區心理衛生中心就是衛生局的社區心理衛生中心持續提供給災民的這個諮商的服務那避免這種焦慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13913.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13916.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件件件件件件件件件件件 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13934.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13949.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13953.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13955.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13973.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13994.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這部分的話,我的印象中花蓮縣政府,衛生局那邊,不是衛生局,就是說應該是社會處,他們已經做這樣一災民或一災戶的話一社工的。好,我們也希望說這個是可以比較長期的來追蹤啦,每個需要心理諮商的個案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13994.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14006.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14024.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14029.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
福利及社會福利及社工福利及社工福利及社工福利及社工福利及社工福利及社工福利及社工福利及社工 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14045.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14061.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這部分其實我們把這個救災人員納到這個我們心理重建的計畫裡面這已經行之多年了在各種災害發生的時候對於救災人員提供這類的服務的話其實都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14062.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14077.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我只是在這裡再做一個提醒,因為有些住在人員可能因為某種原因,特定的原因或者也擔心影響深深等等的這個情形,對於自己受到這個心靈創傷,他可能是一個隱忍的狀態。 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14080.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14102.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
這可能需要在時間沒有辦法改善的情況下我覺得對於救災人員我們需要提供更多的主動關心要讓他們知道當然這個過程要讓他們安心因為一定要保密所以我就特別做這樣的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14104.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14132.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
最後一個問題我有收到一位原住民的家長的陳情他說他很需要以下這樣的一個服務也要我支持他們這樣的提案這個是一個民間團體天使星在公共政策網路參與平台發起的建議希望提供身心障礙照顧者每年三次免費心理諮商服務部長你覺得這個建議如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14134.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14153.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
這部分的話可能我們還是要再盤點一下因為對於身心障礙的家庭照顧者我們有一些方案來支持他們包括在社會家屬這邊對於身障的家庭照顧者的支持方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14154.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14173.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
包括長照的部分那也是我想其實為什麼他們會有這樣的提案一定是有這個需求不然他們不會這麼賣力的去連署那當然就是說部長這個是看一下這是去年8月衛福部推出了15到30歲年輕族群心理健康支持方案那因為你們評估15到30歲的年齡層這個憂鬱症 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14177.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14195.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
草案案件事宜及自殺親身的數據趨勢上升,所以你們推出計畫是設定在15到30歲的年齡,但是部長同樣也很需要政府的支持,還有這些身心障礙的照顧者,過去有太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14196.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14222.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
藉著身心障礙的親人一起走上絕路的這個社會案件那這個是去年6月的新聞所以在這近5年當中總共有44件那照顧者帶著身心障礙的親人一起親生的案子造成這樣的結果的這個影響因素有非常多可是如果說我們可以去協助減輕照顧者在心理上所受的壓力當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14222.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14247.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
就可以減少這樣的悲劇發生了那我不曉得就是說我們通常啦不想對於這個身心障礙者的家庭經濟狀況有些有時候真的就是相對弱勢那所以對於這些身心障礙者照顧者然後提供免費的心理諮商服務我覺得就是政府是非常需要來支持這樣的一個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14247.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14248.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
醫療法草案案件事務委員委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14275.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14289.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
我剛剛跟委員報告的就是說我們會盤整現有的資源這個資源包括就是說方案包括說到底有哪一些人可以去做這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14290.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14290.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14321.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14322.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
醫療法草案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14333.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14339.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
醫療法草案：一、審查namon 您覺得順利出行政院的機會有多大還是說現在有沒有什麼哪一個條次哪一個條文內容是有點卡關的有沒有目前我們並沒有並沒有收到所有就是說行政院的其他各部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14363.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14382.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
醫療法草案案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅� |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14387.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14399.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11期社會福利及 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14416.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14437.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
醫療法草案案件事宜（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14443.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14459.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
人體試驗完成之後才可以接受所謂的登記核准。這裡面有一個重點就是這一類的像基因治療、細胞治療的這種人體試驗跟藥品的臨床試驗是不一樣的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14462.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14465.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
草案案件事宜,其中一件事宜,其中一件事宜,其中一件事宜,其中一件事宜。 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14484.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14503.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
剛剛林淑芬委員一直在講說,要參加你的人體試驗的人一大堆,你怎麼可能找不到人?基本上我覺得這個邏輯論述是有一點落差的啦。對,有一點。他把這個藥品的臨床試驗拿到這邊來做比較。那這個部分的話,其實美國的FDA他們有概覽出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14504.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14529.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
發展法草案 案 人體試驗的概覽他們有出來所以我們會follow FPA這樣的因為這個國際的所以他在case number的部分也就是說這一個參加人體試驗的這個個案數的部分的話會有一些規定那跟那個藥品的臨床試驗的這個部分完全不一樣因為他case可能會收集的是比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14530.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14546.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
草案案件,否則會永遠做不完,因為這很多的技術都是針對那種⋯⋯ 部長我覺得在這個同時,就是說你們要在送行政院審查的這個同時,您剛剛講的美國FDA的這一些人體試驗的guideline,或者是說有一些我們其實是可以同步去進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14547.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14565.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14569.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14597.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
剛剛當然我聽到有委員在講說這個我們的特管辦法裡面對於細胞治療的成效你們公布了包括自體脂肪幹細胞治療退化性膝關節炎軟骨細胞治療膝關節軟骨缺損等等獨獨沒有公布癌症治療的療效其實我應該是這樣想就是說癌症治療的療效它的觀察期其實是必須更長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14597.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14608.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14616.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14640.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
大數據上面來講其實不夠精準也不夠完整而且我們的特管辦法裡頭是只有第四期或者是第一期第三期經基本治療無效者才能來接受特管辦法的細胞治療那這樣子的數據做起來基本上你在就整個療效的數據分析上它其實也是不夠完整的所以我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14641.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14656.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
未來委員在這一方面的詢問我認為你們應該你們的醫師專業應該要更詳盡的把這個區塊去做說明又甚或是接受細胞治療的癌症患者他在接受細胞治療之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14657.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14679.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
幾年內他的細胞、他的腫瘤細胞由多大縮小到多大或者是說無效或者是又繼續擴大我覺得你們應該會有這些data的整理。Maybe把這些data的整理把它彙整出來也會讓大家更清楚的了解在整個癌症的細胞治療上面就目前到現在施作的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14680.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14691.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
可能這個可以麻煩衛福部做一些懲罰。這個部分跟委員報告牽涉到兩個點。第一點就是剛剛委員提到的,它的療效的判定有時候需要時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14693.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14702.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14721.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14748.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
草案：一、審查 »: 都要重新來做申請。所以當你這個療效公佈如果不是很好的時候,等於是在對某一些醫療機構來做宣傳。這是我們要避免的。所以我們未來在公佈這個時候可能不會每一家每一家去公佈說它的療效,而是會變成是用整體性的方式去做。對,我要談就是說你可能是可以整體性的公佈,而不是針對哪一家的哪一個品項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14749.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14776.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
醫療法草案案件事項公佈,因為這個也會涉及到病人的隱私的部分,因為你都是case by Case去申請,所以你只要一公佈哪一家醫療院所哪一個生技業者,你很容易就可以去追蹤到那一個患者的名字。所以我覺得這個部分可能要避免啦。所以我才說這一個要怎麼樣公佈這個需要我們內部再來做一些討論。好,部長因為我時間已經到了,但是我覺得我還是期待這個我們能夠共同努力趕快來把這個再生醫療法來把它推行通過好不好?謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14777.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14781.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
好,謝謝邱議瑩委員。接下來請舒喬惠委員發言。好,謝謝主席。我們請薛部長。部長你臨晚才起來啦。沒關係啦。不好意思啦。不好意思啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14802.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14804.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
邱議瑩等25人擬具 «再生醫療法草案》案。 »: 委員邱議瑩等25人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14828.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14854.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
他剛剛問的很多的細節你也答得非常的詳盡也就是說其實這部法律要推動不只是能夠造福很多的癌友造福我們的生計醫療同時他也有除了法規文字之外很多的管理面向方方面面要想的透徹之後才能夠真正推動上路嘛對不對好那部長我在這裡啦前面的問過的就不再問一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14856.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14883.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
你自己在備詢台上你再跟我們說一次你覺得這部法案到底應不應該過該不該現在過我是認為說應該過而且需要現在過大家就如同委員的這一個這一個slide上面所表現出來因為這號打著再生醫療的口號對那在市場上面推動各種的所謂的自稱為再生醫療這個亂象已經出現了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14886.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14899.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
尤其是這樣經過了兩屆八年,老實說這個亂象只有越來越劇烈。我就早上我在回答那個蘇清泉委員的時候,我就舉例有多少號稱說是回春的,說的細胞療法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14901.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14930.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
醫療法草案案案件是不可能通過的因為怎麼樣去證明他回春光是你接受這個治療之後的話你可能要過10年20年才知道說他有沒有變得是比別人是年輕啦所以這個就是不可能有人體試驗的沒有人體試驗的都就不是再生醫療沒有錯這一定是要把這些東西把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14931.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14951.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
醫療發展法草案。」所以我們更需要一部規範來把這些行為甚至是管理方式要能夠建構起來嘛這就是我們今天在處理這部再生醫療相關法案最終的目的好啦那第九屆第十屆各有不同的原因所以而卡關 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14952.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14967.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
那好不容易現在我們其實在上一屆的尾聲的時候其實有一部接近共識的版本出來了只剩下4個小點當然你也可以說他要放大也是可以無窮放大但是其實上一屆的最後只剩下4個點那今天我們聽到這樣一連串的質詢下來以後我們現在是第11屆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14974.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14977.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件件件件件件件件件件件件件 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14991.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14999.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
醫療法草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛生環境委員會議案件事宜及衛 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15016.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15021.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
好,那因為我現在不是委員會的,我只有5分鐘的時間,我要剩下一分半,我再問一個別的,市長可以回座我們要問一下這個今天的這個時事議題啦,就是相關的這個有藝人因為持有不法拍攝的兒少影片,性隱私的影片所衍生的爭議,社會真的是沸沸揚揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15041.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15062.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
好,也因為這個重大的爭議、重大的撻伐之後民間反應很大甚至還提出了五大訴求部長你對這個五大訴求民間版的五大訴求這件事情你怎麼看我不是叫你做一一對五個訴求來做飯我說你對民間提出五大訴求這件事情怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15062.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15066.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15077.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15078.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
草案案件事務委員委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15092.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15094.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15113.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15132.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
根本就不知道啦我舉個例子來說好了我們看非洲豬瘟可以攜帶肉類產品入境100萬儲心白白逼100萬元這件事情在場有人不知道嗎國人知道這件事情的普及率高達多少好但是我們當時是花了多大的新聞強度和趁著熱度的時候讓國人都知道這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15135.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15162.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
那麼今天我們過去一年的時間社會不知道其實我們在對於兒少的這個保護的部分已經做了這麼大的修正每一項大家新年關注其實他講的五大項我們幾乎都有對應相對應的現有的措施現有的法規就可以處理了這是第一個第二關於加重刑責的部分在去年已經也全面性的加重了 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15163.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15187.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
但社會不知道啊社會不知道那好王洋還可以補勞那我想請問這幾天從事發到今天衛福部有對這件事情對我們要利用民氣可用的這件事情告訴大家說不好意思其實我們已經有這麼重的法了有宣導嗎沒有啊我看保護師也沒有在這件事情上面處理啊社群沒有任何一篇發文啊我是覺得這樣很可惜啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15190.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15194.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
就是大家這麼努力做我為什麼會這樣講因為這部去年修法的時候我也在場啊我也是衛環委員會的委員我就有參與啊我還提了附帶決議啊對說到附帶決議我就想問當時我有附帶決議我說因為我要求這個不罰影片要能夠即刻下架當時說24小時好可是24小時業者說欸這個有困難難度那大家也都經過一番討論以後說欸對真的有難度 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15215.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15244.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
罪當時作成的附帶決議是說衡量這個影響慎具但是應該要怎麼樣怎麼樣平衡之下所以是衛福部應協同相關單位統計大家這個網際網路平台接獲的申訴或者需要瀏覽的移除的件數完成件數的平均完成時間也就是你接獲了多少件阿你下架了多少件阿你平均完成時間我沒有限你24小時喔平均完成時間你要公布阿去年到現在阿現在好像還沒有公布嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15245.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15261.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
那我可不可以按照去年修法時候的附帶條件請衛福部這邊提出資料來我們公布給大家我們要讓大家知道修法前和修法後到底有沒有改變嘛這要有差別啊才能已遭公信啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15262.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15268.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15303.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15321.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15984.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15987.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
好現在繼續開會接下來請羅廷瑋委員羅廷瑋委員羅廷瑋委員不在接下來請陳冠廷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
16016.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
16019.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
醫療法草案案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
16043.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
16067.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
根據最新的兩年的統計包含兒童跟少年性剝削的這個通報的被害人其實這個數字是相當可怕的從兩個部分來看就利用兒童或少年為性交猥褻之行為以功能關懶的跟這個拍攝製造兒童或少年的性交或者是猥褻的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
16069.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
16078.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案：一),委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
16097.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
16109.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
草案案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案件事務委員羅廷瑋等 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
16126.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
16145.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
他必須依比例來去加重他的刑罰那我們最近的討論偏向持有但是其實我們必須要用比例原則把這個始作俑者或者是利用這樣子去謀利的這樣的做法來有更有效的去防範那第二個部分就是強化社區警示的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
16145.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
16162.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
那我們看到這麼多的案件裡面我相信有很多是直接有被判定這個判罪的確定的那這些部分我認為過去對於這種被害人的保護我覺得不夠之外對於加害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
16163.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
16191.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
我們對於加害人竟然沒有辦法做完整的防治機制沒有辦法去警示這個社區說有這樣子的加害人他在引誘他在拍攝幼童的這樣子的狀況出現所以我認為回顧這樣子的狀況我們是希望有相關的社區的警示系統讓社區能夠有相關的風險管控那是不是可以請教衛福部有沒有這樣子的規劃或者是這樣的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
16193.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
16208.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
這部分從社區去做的話當然是一個方法不過因為從委員這一個來看的話我們都可以看得到增加最多的就是網路上面的線影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
16209.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
16232.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
那如果是屬於這一類的話那社區要怎麼樣去做這種預防就會有一點困難那跟部長說明一下就經過定罪之後我們知道他是做拍攝他是做製作這樣子的猥褻的影片的我們知道這個人是誰的話那當然就可以警示說此人在這個社區在活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
16233.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
16235.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
16252.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
16280.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
指用這樣子的馬上反應式的方式去修法所以我們也希望衛福部能夠提供我們更多的其他國家的這些相關的處置的方式那我當然知道是針對其他的這種性犯罪者有些國家是直接公佈其姓名還有公佈他的這些刑跡在一些可以去搜尋到的政府網站但是我們現在面臨的挑戰是更多包含製作的散播的這些所以我還希望說衛福部能夠提供相關的一些資訊給我們作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
16282.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
16282.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
草案：一、審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
16299.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
16321.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
這是本來就會有這樣子的一個機制現在只是說因為我們有許多的縣對一個個別的一個兒少的保護有幾樣的機制在進行那對這種脆弱家庭的話其實有各種不同的現在只是說這些要怎麼樣去整合起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
16321.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
16322.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
邱議瑩等25人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
16339.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
16363.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
教學品質我們要更好是要有師生的比例那社工的比例這個部分是不是也能夠每一個社工最多可以負責幾個案例未來會不會有相關的更明確的方式來去制定因為社工的工作齁其實他差別很大啦有些只要處理這一個所謂的救濟的發放 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
16364.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
16383.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
有些保護性社工必須進入家庭,對於各個保護對象所面對的風險會很高。不同的工作的社工,案件的比例會有不一樣。這當然我們都可以再來做一些檢討。 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
16387.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
16402.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
我還是在談到性剝削的被害人的概況這個數字希望說相關的立法前後它的這個比對可以把這些數據再給我我想知道說我們之前的這些立法到底有沒有嚇阻的效用謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
16404.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
16433.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
好謝謝陳冠廷委員接下來請謝衣鳳委員謝衣鳳委員謝衣鳳委員不在接下來請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在接下來請李燕秀委員李燕秀委員李燕秀委員不在接下來請羅志強委員羅志強委員羅志強委員不在接下來請林德福委員林德福委員林德福委員不在接下來請蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在接下來請楊耀委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
16441.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
16441.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
邱議瑩等25人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
16450.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16475.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
國安部長我先請教一個問題就是我們醫學中心的加速一直在增加可是就是我現在發現缺床的部分太嚴重了我這邊是就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16477.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16487.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
我們在急診的佔留率醫學中心近於全國平均值的2% |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16489.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16515.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
那這個是 這個是比較怪理論上是醫學中心握有比較龐大的資源他的佔留率應該是要比區醫院跟地區醫院比如說特別是偏鄉的地區醫院因為他確實在招募醫事人上面是比較困難那 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16521.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16533.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
我們再看一個數據22家醫學中心含準醫學中心的急性一般病床合計的許可數是25,368床近三個月的開放數是23,753大概開放率只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16548.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16566.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
九十三趴那這個問題到底在哪裡?因為我這邊沒有拿到區議院的開床率所以我沒有辦法做比較可是就我的想像上我覺得我們既然核准了 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16567.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16589.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
而且有越來越多家的醫學中心那醫學中心擔負了最重的醫療責任那它的開床率真的太低了這個部長怎麼解決?這部分的話其實大部分的醫中準醫中大概都許可床都開了除了幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16591.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16607.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
這幾家包括臺大、林口長庚、淡水馬街、張機之所以沒有全開的原因是他們準備要興建醫療大樓 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16609.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16619.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
先把這個扣打先申請出來之後的話那在開始建築之後那廠才會開所以目前沒有開的大家都屬於這種狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16621.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16648.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
那這裡有一個問題就是為什麼大樓還沒有申請之前他就先來申請床?因為他必須要跟我們申請有這個許可床因為區域的關係我們有一個計算的方式那他有了這個許可床數的話他才能夠開始動工去興建不然沒有這個床的話他到時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16650.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16675.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
蓋起來的話沒有辦法有病床。不是,我的意思是說不是應該要他先新建完才申請。沒有沒有,是先申請。先申請。對。先申請再。對,有了這個擴大的話。所以他先框一個蓋數。對對對。其實這個也是蓋數啦。對不對。對,因為將來蓋好了之後的話,是不是就是按照這個擴大去設置病床,這有時候會有做一些微調。 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16676.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16692.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
因為其實我朋友有很多鄉親就是轉診了以後就在急診室完成了醫療行為就直接沒有住院就對這個對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16697.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16707.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
一則於喜一則於憂在急診室可以完成治療行為好像反正就是病人也康復了不過我確實接過好幾個案子都是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16723.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16739.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
因為我這邊沒有區域醫院跟地區醫院,我相信越往下層級的醫療機構可能它的開創率可能是越低的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16740.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16756.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
這個不一定,可以講的是說他的戰床率是低,就有開出了病床那實際上有使用的沒有沒有沒有戰床率高低跟我們行政機關比較無關 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16758.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16771.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
現在是說它的開創率,核准數跟真正可以符合互併比,其實我覺得最大的問題應該都在互併比上面。 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16774.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16803.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
這個跟委員報告大概是這樣子許多小型的醫院他的占床率不高但是他的開床率蠻高的因為他以前申請的大概如果他經驗是一個適當的話大概不會縮床也就是說他可能是100床左右大概他如果經驗好大概一百床大家都會用不太會關掉比較有問題的倒是區醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16804.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16809.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
基院那個中型那尤其像我們有一些不利院也是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16812.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16813.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
醫療法草案案件事務委員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16840.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16849.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
那我們的不利院這種情形的也不少所以我們現在正在清查如果真的是沒有辦法開的話是不是要檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16851.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16874.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
可是像有偏鄉離島大概最高的醫療成績都到地區醫院。大概都到地區醫院。那假如一直關床的話其實對於居民會造成大的不方便。偏鄉離島其實關床的不多啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16875.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16902.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
但是未來如果是有三萬戶變比的話,這會不會影響?其實還蠻多的。我不想造成醫院太大的那個,因為真的人力的增補是有它一定的困難在。這個請部裡面還是注意一下。我們今天還是...哇,沒時間了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16908.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16928.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
就醫療我簡單問一個問題再生醫療部長再生醫療就是將基因細胞和他的衍生生物用於人體構造或功能的重建修復 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16932.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16953.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
來達到治療的目的。」有一種是慈恩療法。恩慈療法。恩慈療法它的藥物的等待時間長短不一。我們現在的藥證申請其實是必須要經過很長的時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16958.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16986.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
那我們完成立法了以後有一個問題就是因為會走入恩慈療法的病人大概都有他一定的急迫性那他的藥證的申請或是他核准的申請我們應該是會有特殊的設計對不對也就是說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16989.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16994.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
福家許可然後再經過一個再生醫療審議會議的審議通過就可以是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16999.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
17005.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
這可能不太一樣。恩慈療法大部分指的是在國內並沒有通過的技術或字跡。但是變成有需要要用。國外也有了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
17021.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
17034.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
只是說廠商還沒有來申請。這一種的話就是會走到恩賜。也就是說我們國內並沒有給許可證,但是他急著要用。我們會做逐案的審查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
17037.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
17057.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
剛剛委員提到的付付款的許可這個是在再生醫療制計條例裡面他是說有一個再生醫療制計他要來申請我們不知道說他的效果還沒有那麼確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
17059.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
17083.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
這時候我們暫時給他許可但是他必須要提供後續治療的一些資訊給我們讓我們來做判斷這個付入款的許可的話他是有期限的在期限之內你做的這一些治療的case他的結果是什麼都必須要報過來那我們再來做未來的是否準博的一個依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
17085.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
17094.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
這是有在自治條例裡面規範的部分所以恩慈療法的藥物並沒有在這個規範裡面。應該不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
17097.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
17113.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8會期社會福利及 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
17126.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
17151.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
那至於治劑條例裡面的,它已經變成一個治劑了。那這一個的部分的話,那就是依照我們的藥術法相關的這種恩恥療法的規定來進行。所以還是有恩恥療法。好,那其他我們主條再討論。好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席。好,謝謝楊耀委員。接下來請劉建國委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
17166.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
17179.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
謝主席。有請部長跟...請薛部長。跟食藥署署長。吳署長。那個再生醫療之際我們等一下討論齁。先跟部長還有署長來討論食安的問題。我想大家都記憶猶新嘛齁。從3月18這寶林茶室的中毒案開始。 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
17189.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
17217.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
還有3月28日的長壽司、3月30日的漢南飯店、世界烈花的文品旗下的粗娃、響蠟還有昨天的八王雲集,應該不只這些啦。這個實案真的就像瘟疫一樣,我在這個地方也特別提過,不斷地在凌亂爆,尤其都在臺北市來爆發比較多。我想現在大家有一個疑問,臺北市政府到底能不能去應付這個事情,這是第一。 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
17220.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
17238.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
我會講這樣一個背景資料我看到臺北市這個衛生局在3月24號稽查保齡查試的時候因為查無實語也因此僅帶回砧板菜刀水果刀以及這個廚師手部的生物跡證共四項的檢體然後3月28號在長壽司也傳出這樣的審問題的時候臺北市衛生局同樣以查無實語 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
17245.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
17252.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
然後也制裁上砧板生死刀具還有工作人員首部的生物跡證等那 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
17255.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
17282.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
陳局長特別是衛生局的陳局長在3月24號當天他是這麼表達他是依照衛福部食藥署訂定的作為流程先前往餐廳採集食魚但現場沒有剩下同批食魚所以僅採集環境及生物前提陳局長又提到現行規定並沒有要求檢查人員在第一時間就要將所有的食材扣走 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
17283.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
17307.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
所有的食材扣走。」這是他記者會講的。然後也許未來可以與中央及專家去討論是我要修改處理方式,衛生局將會遵循。我要簡單表達就是說,台北市衛生局是把這個球丟回去給中央。所以中央沒有規定。那部長、署長你怎麼說? |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
17308.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
17315.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
呃這其實齁在中央所定的這一個處理要點齁就儀式食品中毒事件 儀式食品中毒事件處理要點裡面就有寫到齁剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
17324.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
17343.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
委員提到了他要去做食品的檢體跟環境檢體包括這些剛剛提到的砧板、刀具還有這些處理台食品的檢體就是食與另外一個叫做懷疑的食材 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
17345.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
17362.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
所以現在我提供這個嘛對不對?疑似食品中毒事件處理要點嘛在第4條的第1款裡面食品前提括號食語還有嫌疑食品等嘛對嘛有規定嘛所以他們可能自己在的時候是把他解釋線說了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
17364.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
17391.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
當然這裡面會牽涉到一個就是說如果說他認為的懷疑的食品的話那他要帶走取樣的範圍有多大那可能說那個臺北市衛生局的同仁這個地方他沒有辦法去做判斷因為他沒有在那個時候要被停業處分所以他還在經營嘛你如果把東西收起來他就要做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
17394.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
17419.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
我感覺不像你提供的。你如果這樣說,26號的時候,你知道26號的時候有停業了嗎?那當天停業。當天停業。我們跟衛生局去的時候,當天就給他停業了。所以我們就通通把他帶回來。通通把他帶回來。總共帶回來多少項的檢體?三十五件。三十五件檢體。是因為停業,所以才馬上,不是這樣吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
17420.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
17447.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
先採樣啦。應該是先採樣啦。我的意思就是說基層的同仁有時候會對這一點就是會有遲疑啦。我只是說幫忙這些基層同仁去講一下話啦。拜託你還不對。你幫忙他們講話,還不會說你苛責他們的處理方式,不對吧?我們是把事情釐清嘛。對。這些基層的同仁也是辛苦啦。但是這個部分的話,他把自己的解釋先說了啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
17449.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
17452.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
懷疑食品解釋的發現說⋯⋯你們這個什麼時候訂的?這很舊的最新修訂109我們102年就訂了1020的11月28號就訂了對不對?這個第4條的第一點沒有改嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
17467.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
17468.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
檢測委員席等21人檢測委員席 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
17482.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
17507.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
整個縣市分工好請求中央的支援流程還加入的什麼疑似漏土桿菌處理原子還有醫療院所發生食品中毒的通報流程也包括剛剛我特別提到的採檢食與嫌疑食品等都在這個要點裡面嘛沒有錯嘛對不對好那今天部長你要去提亮都基層的第一線的這些同仁可能對整個這個要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
17509.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
17511.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具〈再生醫療法草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
17528.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
17546.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
這其實不是修的問題就是說這個SOP大家還要再做教育這個要點已經人看一切啦我當然還是有些不周全之處不過如果依照他們在這幾次到現場去採這個檢體的過程裡面應該是足夠了啦不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
17552.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
17581.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
不夠還必須要再...已經可以執行了應該 對嘛 好那你看齁我再給部長看一個資料有議員啦齁去請求台北市政府做這個相關的一個回覆他們叫索資啦齁然後台北市得清楚的回覆是說有關疑似食品中毒發生在食材抽驗作業流程說明如下第一點依照衛生福利部食品藥管理署食品中毒採樣操作手冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
17583.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
17607.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
內容災藥然後第二點本局如果針對疑似食品食品中毒作為流程依照中央訂定之相關文件辦法因本案稽查現場無同批示與原採集廚師所布及環境檢體而後中央如修正食品中毒採樣操作所測本局將配合辦理又是你中央啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
17609.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
17627.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
這個就是這樣子啦。 不不不,部長你先打,我看你怎麼打。 這個剛剛委員提到了,因為他會有時宇,還有另外一個叫做儀式食品。時宇是大家比較經常會看到的我們的作業的程序,比如說學校包袋嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
17628.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
17629.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
17652.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
17658.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
17675.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
17699.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
我先讓你說清楚,但是我們在這個委員會要討論到相關的很細的細節真的是有困難嘛。現在這個是台北市政府打呼議員的,他說依照中央的食品中毒採樣操作手冊,就這一本嘛。就這本嘛。好,那我們針對食品中毒,我們到底是要依照疑似食品中毒事件處理要點,還是要依照這個手冊? |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
17703.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17727.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
這是應該主要依據的是那個疑似食品中毒的那一個啦。只要是要依據食品中毒的處理藥品那一個嘛,對不對?這是更細節的部分啦,在採樣的部分啦。這個更細節在採樣部分依照這個手冊?對。不對吧?是啊。你是要首先知道還有這份資料嗎?你們有公告上網嗎?這已經廢紙了。這份是已經廢紙了。啊都對嘛。對,是廢紙的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17731.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17734.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17760.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17772 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
112年的3月8號公告廢紙這本手冊互錄是公告這個手冊的互錄喔,互錄就是後面第幾頁嘛齁然後食品衛生檢驗項目即抽樣數量表你就廢紙那個數量表 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17775.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17798.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17799.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17815.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
我覺得特別是這種有其必要檢討的部分但是衛福部這個地方也有問題喔對不對之前在網路上還可以查到這個手冊我們有適度去提醒食藥署之後這個手冊已經不見了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17817.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17832.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
但是我們查到公告就只有針對那個賦入去公告廢紙啦所以我才會覺得很奇怪嘛但是你們在你們我們應該還沒有衛部之前叫衛生署的時候也把這個疑似食品中毒事件處理要點在102.11月28號就訂出來了然後縣市分工的非常清楚連要點裡面都還括號 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17839.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17867.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
他應該做什麼事情啊誰去做嘛對不對啊怎麼台北市政府到現在還會打呼他們的議員是依照這個已經彙止的這個手冊在做處理所以在前段跟第二段我要跟部長跟所有人表達就是說怎麼會這個樣子不關他們參與的事參與的事跟你們兩個人嘛不關什麼事情到最後就是推給中央嘛那我們自己也造成這個這樣的一個不應該發生的事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17870.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17890.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
所以今天這個手冊已經公告會址了是不是可以明確的通告所有的各縣市政府嘛對不對我們就是要疑似這個食品中毒的事件處理要點來做處理嘛好請署長請回來今天就處理好不好謝謝署長這個再生醫療應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17893.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17915.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
應該是我在這個委員會最早排入的啦。然後之前也透過擴大的公聽會在酒樓。那時候應該來了上百個醫師團體還有相關的協會的代表。我不曉得我們院辦為什麼到現在還沒幫我進來?到底什麼時候才可以進來? |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17916.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17942.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
我們目前排定的是4月19正委會召開會議審查因為內容有稍作修正審查過後的話就是排院會院會的時間我就沒有辦法跟委員說明說哪一次的院會但是我預計大概會在520之前送到立法院我是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17943.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17956.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
因為招募已經排進來了,我起先以為是說跟行政院這邊跟衛福部這邊都已經溝通好了嘛對不對齁你看這個是第10屆的行政院的版本齁在第9條第一款、第二款、第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17957.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17981.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
也許是第二款第三款的授權今天應該有很多委員有相對的來對部長做出這樣的一個提醒第二款跟第三款的是授權當時就引起這個民間的團體很大的這樣的一個訪談如醫改會、蕭基會、臺灣病友聯盟臺灣醫藥品法規學會還有臺灣受制者保護協會等等等都跳出來反對對不對那我也記得薛部長在4月21號去年不是今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17983.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
18004.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
在第一次的朝委這個黨團協商中有針對行政院的這個第九條第二款第三款也認為部長的表達是這樣也認為這個範圍過大太過普遍了有門啦齁因為是有門檻放得太寬的這樣的一個疑慮且不應該以風險低為由即可跳過完整的這個人體試驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
18006.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
18022.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
在4月21日的協商中,衛務部也針對第9條現場提出修正版本僅保留恩慈療法的建議條文。當時是這樣嗎?對不對?那個時候也獲得了民間團體和醫界的肯定嘛。這個記憶我再提醒一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
18024.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
18038.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
18040.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
18066.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
所有的再生醫療都要做人體試驗除了這一條所規定的情形之外是免完成這個人體試驗就可以來做那不會說是什麼免醫再生醫療自治條例的規定去申請什麼這跟這無關跟那個自治條例是無關是免人體試驗免完成人體試驗那他現在本來是三款現在剩下兩款 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
18066.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
18086.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
第一款的話就是這裡的第一款也就恩賜療法已經沒有辦法了讓他有這個機會第二款的部分就是已經依現有的這一個特管辦法執行中的這些案件不必重複再做人體試驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
18087.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
18114.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
這款報告已經有執行了?對,對,對,已經在執行中了,只有這兩種,其他我們都拿掉了,所以不會有什麼初步安全性跟初步療效這個我們就把它拿掉,因為我們檢討的結果這個無法執行啦。OK,但是你們在3月有舉辦這個再生醫療這個草案的說明會,第8條裡面,部長你看一下,第8條裡面第二款,先進國家完成人體試驗必已上市或上市但具安全性及初步療效。 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
18115.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
18134.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
在當時說明會裡面我們這個還保留,但是事後我們在內部再做檢討,我們覺得這個無法執行。也就是說,如果按照這樣子已經上市在國外的話,完成人體試驗而且已經上市,你要進來的話,你就可以用恩恥療法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
18135.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
18150.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
18157.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
18168.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
人理試驗有一個範圍什麼樣的病人才會進來但是你現在的話是要把其他的病人不符合你的原來的這一個人理試驗的規劃的範圍的也要把他納進來那這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
18173.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
18190.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
18191.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
18214.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
第二個情形是說因為他有療效比較好比如說他本來預計做20個現在做了10個覺得他很好了那你就要用這一個第二款這種讓他加速上市那這個也不對因為你當初在做的時候你的條件那路條件越嚴格的時候那你本來case就會少 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
18215.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
18231.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
18233.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
18253.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
18256.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
18258.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
草案：一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
18277.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
18306.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
我聽不定說很久的我也聽得很誠實我也聽得有就對了所以你們現在的第8條的第2款這個後面或未上市但具安全性及初步療效基本上你們已經拿掉了對不對但是我就覺得很奇怪為什麼3月的時候開說明會這個東西顯示出來跟之前第9條的第2款是一樣的那為什麼是說明會開完之後回去才在檢討才把它拿掉為什麼不是開說明會之前就已經把它拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
18306.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
18308.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
草案案件事務委員委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
18319.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
18340.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
對,就執行一定會出問題。我想這個環環已經一定要達到這個社會的共識嘛,對不對。所以可能有些細節,不曉得可能沒有這麼多時間看,但是相關的幕僚應該要看得清楚才對嘛。請注意這個事情啦。然後我覺得也應該跟民間說明清楚,因為你們是開完說明會之後回去才拿掉嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
18342.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
18368.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
所以我們在送立法院之前的話我們可能還會對外界做一些宣導OK好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝劉建國委員發言接下來請邱志偉委員邱志偉委員邱志偉邱志偉委員不在好那我們今天本會會議詢答全部結束委員邱政軍林德福邱志偉羅廷瑋委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
18370.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
18373.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
醫療法草案案案案及再生醫療治劑條例草案等三案令則其繼續審查。本會會議到此結束,現在散會。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
18423.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
18431.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及� |