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| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:58:59 - 14:11:59 |
| 影片長度 |
780 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查
（一）委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（四）委員張嘉郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（五）委員賴士葆等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。
（六）委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（七）委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（八）國民黨黨團擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（九）委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十）委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十一）委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十二）委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十三）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十四）委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十五）委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十六）委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十七）委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十八）委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十九）委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。
（二十）委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
二、併案審查
（一）委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」案。） |
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主席謝謝麻煩請施能傑部長請部長部長我先確認一下因為本席也非常關心在11月4號不幸離開的這個勞動部的無性公務人員的部分那11月20號勞動部前部長跟勞動部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
33.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
召開記者會向國人正式說明說他要頒發勞動獎章給這個無性公務人員並且來 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
59.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
請考試院這邊來要求來協助認定因公傷亡那到目前為止我們考試院都沒有收到相關的申請沒有我鋪裡面沒有收到這個案子這是打假球還是怎麼樣勞動部跟考試院有那麼不熟到我們這一個全國大家矚目的一個焦點那到現在一個多月過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
59.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
69.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
十一月四號人家離開到現在十二月五號一個多月的時間結果到目前為止勞動部說要幫他來做相關的一個申請全部都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
70.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
92.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個我不能代替勞動部回答是那部長我想請教我們就你也瞭解這一個案件嗎對我瞭解如果說這個案件之後送到考試院的話我們會有什麼樣的一個處置法律上法律上本來規定我們鋪裡面一定會組成因公撫序的那個審查小組是我們就由小組來專業性的審查根據法律我們就尤其是尤其是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
93.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
107.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
本席必須要再提醒不管是公務人員撫卹法或是公務人員因工傷殘死亡慰問金的相關辦法其實都有執行公務公差在辦公場所猝死或者是導致死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
108.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
124.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
或者是積勞過度以致死亡。」對不對?那在這個案件裡面在這個案件裡面其實我們都看得非常清楚在這個無性公務人員他其實長期遭受到不管是精神的言語的或者是相關的霸凌行為而且是直接來自於他的上級長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
125.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
144.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我想跟委員報告我想您您剛講的就是我們審查了一個有一些條款要符合那個條款所以事實是怎麼樣子個案是怎麼樣子就需要有勞動部提供我們這個資料因為現在外界他已經點名了說要跟考試院爭取但到目前沒有收到有沒有需要說也跟勞動部問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
145.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
173.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今天能不能跟勞動部問一下這個案件我想不用不用我們高高在上等到說勞動部如果說勞動部要打假球你也要問勞動部說你們態度到底是為何不是說對外開部長次長開記者會告訴好像要幫這個無姓公務人員討公道結果實際上根本沒做部長能不能跟勞動部確認一下他什麼時候要送案進來我們來了解一下勞動部的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
175.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
193.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
本席會持續追這個案件我們也希望這不是只是為單一個人這是告中華民國政府告訴我們所有的霸凌案件第一不可以霸凌第二如果說真的有相關霸凌的話政府還是能夠有相當的保障的後盾這是態度問題再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
195.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
222.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
部長剛剛賴委員也問了本席很想關心的也就今天我們所謂的這個退府基金的一個相關事宜我一直聽到你用幾個用詞以及在野黨執政黨的委員用護航的方式要永續不走回頭路年金改革要國家長遠發展對結果你開宗明義你們的報告在第四頁的修法議題一 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
223.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
241.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就有講如果說真的停止現在的所得替代率降低的話那退撫基金你第一句怎麼說的財務永續量用盡年度會提早四到五年提早四到五年所以換言之不改的話我們用盡的年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
244.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
261.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
還是會用盡還是會破產沒有所有年金都要定期檢討我想全世界都是一樣只是我們打了140年部長這就是本席好那我請教一下我們政府會不會讓年金破產如果說假如現在都不變假設到那個年度到了我們會不會讓他破產 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
267.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
280.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
法律有講說政府有最後的一個責任所以是不是政府也不會讓他破產或我們會想盡辦法用其他的方式去代替或去其他辦法去來協助不讓他破產 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
281.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
293.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以我們現在年金改革就是走到當然分年度條件還有其他的措施都還沒有都正在執行中我們就繼續來執行這個這是我們我講的就是在我們應該盡的義務我們盡量先盡這樣子盡的義務就是這個盡的義務就是要講義務其實部長你以前也當過人事長嘛我印象沒錯啊對 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
303.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
304.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
公務人員退休資遣撫卹法 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
320.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
339.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
合約的那一刻當我擔任公務人員那一刻的時候我的權利我的責任是幫國家做事不分黨派不分朝野只要政府在的一天我要幫國家做事幫人民做事但是政府的義務也是給我足夠的這個退休金來保障我的退休生活啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
340.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
361.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但怎麼沒想到有一天突然間你一百零七年的時候告訴說我的退休金抱歉我要把你給砍掉給你給減少而且你減少砍的還變成是你們自己規劃那如果你的減少你的砍是真的能夠讓整個基金永續無餘百年 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
362.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
379.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我相信也許有一些公務同仁會覺得說那這樣子我為國家犧牲已經犧牲了三四十年了我再犧牲可不是啊你的砍退休替代率到最後只是多延長五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
380.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
404.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
都延長六年。」然後你跟我講是說到了那個時候政府會再去思考其他相關的方法來去做那你不就是講假的嗎?再者我再請教部長所謂勞保基金勞動部部長也有直接講撥補也是一種改革換言之這一位前勞動部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
405.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
429 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他已經下台了但他在上任的時候的第一次質詢在未還委員會801會議室他的回答是他沒有打算要推動勞保改革他說撫卹也是一種改革換言之政府對待不同的族群其實有不同的方式來去做一個永續發展那這樣子的話不就是對於我們軍公教人員相對來說就是差別待遇嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
429.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
438.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我想委員在過去這幾年我們因為年金改了省下2700億都全數回到基金裡面去並不是進到政府的口袋 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
441.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
442.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
三）委員張智倫等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
462.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
474.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會長所以你講這個大道理其實我說實在話這已經變成是政令先導但過去到現在其實你回答這樣的一個部分還是沒有辦法回答本席剛剛的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
476.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
499.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你剛講這些東西你都了解這給是教科書的一個這個版本回答但重點這也是個別的退休公務人員你的責任跟義務當初你們怎麼跟人家講的然後結果你這樣改了然後結果你沒有辦法做永續基金改革沒有年金改革沒有辦法做永續永續這件事情其實是一個很大的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
500.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
527.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
最後我想請教因為剛剛有很多委員也在討論也在關心是說這個10年20年的一個部分對不對那你有提到是說我們有提出來了但是請行政院來做這個審理的時候行政院以20年來計算我們這邊做了什麼努力在行政院編列總預算的時候因為不要忘記請龍許本席提醒明年的中央政府總預算是創紀錄的新高三兆元以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
528.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
530.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那既然我們都講說創新路的新高 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
531.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
552.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
561.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
574.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
結果我們這所謂的這個撥補的一個部分只有100多億那再者是選擇10年跟20年的一個方案是不是以這樣子的推估方法會多增加國庫支出710億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
577.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
577.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
撫卹法第十四條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
594.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
604.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
623.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
624.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
637.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
654.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
當家才知持家難啊!但我現在看到的就是民進黨政府持家這八年持家持得非常爛爛到我們的財政紀律不好所以導致於是說我們的錢沒有花在刀口上真正該用的不用不該用的拼命用這才是我覺得我們現在國家面臨到悲哀啊說實在話部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
658.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
685.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
尊重你過去是學者但本席要在這邊站在這邊很誠摯地講就是說在討論這個制度裡面不是跟這種執政黨的委員在那邊附和不要走回頭路對對對會永續對對對沒有啊其實如果說設計這個制度出來你根本沒有辦法達成這樣子你只是為了說2017年做的事情不願意再調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
686.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
687.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
三）委員張智倫等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
717.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
718.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
三）委員張智倫等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
733.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
755.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
當然有很多其他的因素但我必須要說有很多人到最後會卻步不想要投入公職考試的很大一個原因確實是因為年金改良他沒有想到政府這個全中華民國最大的老闆最大的雇主也可以說話不算話也可以適時的撕毀我們過去簽的合約啊所以本期今天提出來質詢只是要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
758.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
758.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
三）委員張智倫等19人擬具 |
| IVOD_ID |
157903 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157903 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-18 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-05T13:58:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-05T14:11:59+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |