| IVOD_ID |
157901 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157901 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-05 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-05T13:36:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-05T13:54:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/66a8e59aed318d219251580657d97619a99904554a4baaac90a1da7b6f6bcb9da3edfb217b8fd1275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:36:34 - 13:54:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員第1次聯席會議（事由：審查
一、委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
三、委員黃捷等22人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
四、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
五、委員范雲等16人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
六、委員林楚茵等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
七、委員王育敏等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
八、委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
九、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十、委員林月琴等17人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十一、國民黨黨團擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十二、委員洪申翰、范雲等21人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十三、委員吳沛憶等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十四、委員林淑芬等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十六、委員張雅琳等21人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。） |
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好,謝謝主席。主席辛苦。有請部長。部長,你也辛苦。我想今天討論這個人工生殖法的修法,各黨團體都有提出不同意見跟修法這個方向,相關的版本。關於代孕這個議題,我想台灣已經討論多年了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
51.349 |
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但是在修法討論之前有一些問題還是需要做詳細的討論跟徹底的釐清所以我們希望這個制度建立能夠盡可能做到這個風險積低然後避免爭議這樣才能夠讓有需求的民眾有所保障也讓社會大眾可以去理解然後了解到整個這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
57.052 |
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擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
沒有啦,這都經過專家的會議當然是有一定的一個...我是請教是待遇的制度有準備好了嗎?沒有對不起,待遇制度的上路是我已經做好準備啦,應該這麼講嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
有跟沒有嗎?因為這個都是一直在討論嘛,那我們聽到更多的聲音就覺得說還不足。是,所以等於就是還沒有準備好嘛,應該是這麼說嘛。不然就直接了當回答吧。因為我說問事情也都很直接了當的啦齁。那我給部長有一個資料做參考齁,你看這個螢幕裡面,這寫得非常清楚齁,這個是這個刊登在 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
146.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
內科醫學年鑑還有認證攜帶者中嚴重的孕產婦和新生兒的發病率。這個世代研究的統計資料是說研究人員發現代孕孕婦出現嚴重產婦病發症的比例為7.8。然後是自然懷孕的孕婦發生率的2.3等於是高達三倍多。然後幾乎是透過體外受精受孕的孕婦發生率是4.3的兩倍多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
148.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
也就是說自然懷孕的風險由夫妻來自身承擔那代孕的這個代孕者的這個懷孕的風險原受試的夫妻要如何來承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那代孕的制度如果上路,那相關的風險也應該必須要好好去嚴格的來降低嘛。看誰要配到來做降低嘛。我是簡單講這一個啦,因為這是研究的一個刊登在內科醫學連線還有相關的一些世代研究裡面的報導。這個資料你們應該有吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
189.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
199.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
對,這個資料出來的時候應該我們就有相關的一些因應的降低的這個風險還是說元壽司的夫妻他們要來如何承擔這個我們有相關的配套嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
218.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
謝謝委員我想如何去保障跟降低代孕者的風險那當然就必須要透過相關的規範包括企業包括保險包括相關的衛教評估尤其是代孕前的評估必須要完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
219.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
246.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以這個我們都有事先的一些我們都有事先討論過有討論過啦但是還沒有還沒有說一個配套的一個出稿的成型嘛應該是沒有吧應該是說在這個法令沒有授權的時候這些我們都有討論在準備中準備中而已嘛齁好那今年5月啦齁我們將這個人工生殖法的草案公告那其中有關這個代孕的相關的條文這段期間啦當然有些委員也針對這個在代孕的提出修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
273.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那我想說衛務部公告過關於這個代孕的修法草案以及代孕制度通過以後會變成問題相關的適應細則還有這個瘦素夫妻與代孕者是我合適的進行代孕的評估方法及認定標準代孕的契約的擬定代孕的相關的專業諮詢制度代孕的相關的會用代孕者的風險管理處理代孕適宜的服務機構等細節 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
275.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
280.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
304.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
322.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這些行政規則或者是行政的法規當然是要在法規授權之後當然我們同時也在準備中我是覺得是這樣就是說如果五月份的公告就是要朝這個方向走那這個相關的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
323.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
329.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
344.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
356.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
然後再來就是說我們在野黨團目前支持這個人工生殖網蠟路代孕很有可能這個代孕法規會三度通過那屆時外務部要怎麼處理這是現實現狀因為今天召委已經把這個安排進來了嘛就大家討論嘛你如果相關細則相關配套都要在討論中那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
374.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
385.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第3次聯席會議．立法院第4次聯席會議．立法院第5次聯席會議．立法院第6次聯席會議．立法院第7次聯席會議．立法院第8次聯席會議．立法院第9次聯席會議．立法院第10次聯席會議．立法院第11次聯席會議．立法院第12次聯席會議．立法院第13次聯席會議．立法院第14次聯席會議．立法院第15次 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
397.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
404.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
430.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個法案你們怎麼應應?所以第一個我們跟委員報告所以因為我們覺得還有很多需要釐清需要溝通所以我們的衛生部的立場是希望先在單身女性跟女同性配偶這個部分先行那後續因為比較多需要更嚴謹來討論的來配套措施的所以我們這個部分在 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第二階段以後再來我們再好好的來演繹這樣。我剛剛請教的問題很清楚嘛,萬一這個法案三度通過,那它就沒有侷限在哪一個部分喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
444.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
468.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以你回答我這樣是好像這個法律是你修的當然我們尊重立法院的各位立法委員的意見那我們站在過去多年來一直研議到怎麼樣把最先進行做好的情況之下我們目前的立場是這樣也希望委員們能夠瞭解我們現在行政部門的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
469.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
486.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我現在是提出事情啦好不好我知道如果你相關的配套私營細則都還不見成熟的情況之下這個法律如果進到三讀之後你會務部、國建署你們要如何去應應還是搞到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
487.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
500.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
507.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
519.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
參事是不是?謝謝王參事。我要請教你就是說對於人工生殖法納入代理運母有什麼樣的看法跟立場?在原有的這個現有的法律上會不會有造成相關的一些衝突? |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
521.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
548.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟委員報告因為人工生殖子女適用民法其實是會有疑義的所以我們就比如說代理孕母是分娩者跟卵子提供者是不同的人那懷胎生產的婦女就不一定會跟所出生的子女有血緣上的聯絡那我們民法規定的設計本來是以有沒有婚姻關係所生的子女來分婚生子女或非婚生子女或者是用血緣關係來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
549.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
556.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。規定規定的所以如果有反正好認為他不是他的婚生子女話他是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
564.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
570.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
591.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
594.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
598.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
623.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我能不能再簡單請教一個問題,代孕者與代孕所生的子女這個血清的問題要如何處理?血清的問題?因為其實就像收養一樣,因為我們代理孕母的規範如果是在人工生殖法,我們就一律都是視為婚生子女,視為就是擬製的血清。就是視為這個方式就跟我們收養一樣都是擬製的血清,那這個清等不會有問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
624.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
631.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
輕的不會有問題。那現在相關的版本,各位委員的相關提幹的版本,你覺得有沒有什麼大的問題的存在? |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
633.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
656.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你們應該有檢視過了嘛對不對今天你來列席大致上你的委員版本還是你都還沒有看過有看過了但是真的很複雜那真的很複雜連你都覺得很複雜了因為這涉及到很多社會倫理還有這個兒童權益還有育母的保障他們各方面還有社會的期待要怎麼滿足其實這個還蠻複雜的這很涉及專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
659.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
661.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
681.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
698.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
事實上現在如果是在國外代理育母出生的孩子他們也是看看國外的規範是怎麼樣然後再經過我們國內的法律程序可能就是用就是認領或收養或者是經過法律訴訟的程序來確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
699.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
721.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你覺得現在這樣的法律修正是可以處理的?你要講清楚喔你前面講很複雜後面又講說可以處理我覺得是有點衝突跟矛盾請參事要小心回答代理育母的這個問題我們都尊重主管機關如果準備好的話但是這個問題牽涉很多很複雜這個一定要從長計要審慎的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
726.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
747.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好,你前面的講法我有點如雷,好啦,好,你請回吧,小心啦,謝謝。好,我大致上釐清一些事情啦齁,那最後我再,主席再給我一分鐘就好齁。這個,這個部長你看一下頭影片。EAP,部長知道這是什麼吧?部長不知道,署長知道吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
754.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
770.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
市長趕快跟我們...是是是,這個我們理事的專家專業。報告委員是員工協助方案?對啦對啦,要跟你知道,不然在書店都不知道。所以衛生部的員工很難接受到協助,危險的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
771.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
801.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我現在司法法制委員會的時候,我追了這個事情兩年,上次總統府、下次委員還有各部會,包含現在在審預算過程裡面,我都會細看員工協助方案裡面到底怎樣去編列預算,那過去連預算科目都顯示不出來,那有的部會有預算科目顯示出來之後,編的機會少之又少,所以如何去協助這個員工,我就覺得很莫名其妙。員工發生事情我們是要接住,我們不是事後才在處理嘛,對不對?好,那你們要不要看一下你們怎麼編的? |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
801.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
801.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
803.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
823.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個審預算的時候,我絕對會再問部長,然後也會問你們所屬的相關的機關,你們到底怎麼面對你們自己的同仁。你看下一頁。第二部是738,我不講那個預算跟實際的原理了,就直接講這樣的一個目前調查出來的。那738裡面員工生殖法部分條文是52,等於700人,700人一個人。社交屬159,12萬,也是700多。國界屬185,11萬,600人一個。食藥屬64,15萬,240。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
832.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
849.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
檢管署一、三、四建保署2842位才編16萬等於57元一個人。博士你怎麼看?這樣好不好?感到?這個應該要加強。應該要加強。對啊你們預算都抽編了啊。預算都編了。現在是預算案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
858.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
879.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個我在你三位當部長之前我已經也提醒過衛生部、勞動部相關的部位我幾乎每一個部位我都有特別點到啦齁。那個到今天為止還是這個樣子。所以今天我們當覺得我們相關單位一直出現的這個霸凌的狀況,這其實裡面有工作適應、人際婚姻、家庭照顧、健康、法律等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
880.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
885.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
909.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
920.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 、委 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
924.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
939.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
947.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
949.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
三、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案件》案 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
965.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
969.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等21人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
988.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1000.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你們看一下啦齁,你們回去看怎麼如果做因應了。但是最後一個表格,又更奇怪。如果現在大家在面對這種霸凌的事件,院長也都交代一個星期內必須調查清楚。你們怎麼會人員異動在國會聯絡組,後面是寫零。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1004.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1027.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
來,委員我簡單的報告齁,這個部分是有一個是那個屬於編制內,有一個編制內的,編制內部分我們確實是0沒錯,但是另外還有另外一個是因為我們有跟國會組這邊有跟衣服會那邊有請求他們來支援,他們那邊是,我沒有記錯的話應該是有兩位,所以如果要救這個部分,編制內的回答是沒錯,這樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1029.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1046.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以我如果要看你的表要問清楚,不然我也會錯意嘛。沒關係,那個委員我後續,後續我…沒有,你這樣說我沒有主意把這個主意拿起來問,這樣我不對耶。沒有啦,不是啦。我們要檢討啦。沒有沒有,委員是我們自己啦,我們自己啦。沒有沒有,你這個所謂到底是幾個單位是存你講的這個經營。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1049.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1064.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
你發展到証券中心也是零,很多地方都零就對了,所以我是覺得你要這樣搞倒不可能你要卸疑。市長,不知道你的批壓,你還給我印這樣。如果你那個數據是你們自己裡面在搞彌補,那這樣就不好了。請部長、請市長對這件事情多加注意,看怎樣積極回應,謝謝。 |