| IVOD_ID |
15787 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15787 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-03 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-03T08:30:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-03T14:05:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:34:25 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302ddbb5d33df7eda7d076adffd4dccc8d5f93be8d109af184be4bdbe0a91feb51e315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會召開「道路交通管理處罰條例」修法公聽會（事由：召開「道路交通管理處罰條例」修法公聽會） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:35 - 14:05:00 |
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議員先算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1838.288 |
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1866.69 |
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我們請議事人員準備咖啡向各位與會者報告因為地震的關係所以相關出席的人員有的還在高鐵上有的還在捷運上造成相關的延誤那我看我們再晚10分鐘好了非常不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1874.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1901.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那也跟各位與會者做個說明也因為地震的關係所以交通部王國才部長必須要先處理相關的鐵道系統、公路系統相關的安全事宜也必須針對全國的交通系統來進行相關安全的一個檢視所以特別讓王國才部長在 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1904.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1913.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
現在先讓他去處理相關的這些狀況那狀況告一段落部長立刻就會趕過來先向各位來做個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2024.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2041.743 |
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不好意思再次向各位與會者再次做個說明因為高鐵地震的關係所以會延誤一個小時那我們有許多的與會者他其實是搭乘高鐵過來那另外我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2044.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2056.961 |
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結運臺北的環狀線也因為相關的這些地震的因素可能也會延誤大概一個小時左右那相關的這些交通的狀況我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2060.069 |
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2077.761 |
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我們剛才宣布說延10分鐘那我在衡量相關的狀況之後必須讓相關的與會者能夠到場來發言那我們就延半個小時好不好30分鐘因為很多人還在高鐵上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2081.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2102.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們希望大家都平安那部長也因為必須掌握相關的這些全國交通系統目前的安全狀況也必須在相關的這些單位來進行巡視以及匯報那部長會晚一點到我們必須讓他掌握全國交通安全的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2103.243 |
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2112.602 |
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然後他會趕過來向各位來做個報告我們9點半來正式開始先大家可以在場交換意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
3329.525 |
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3357.185 |
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再次向各位與會者做個報告跟說明我們的會議九點半就會正式的開始那現在因為地震的衝擊相關的狀況所以現在已經開設一級應變中心所以部長跟公路總局陳局長還有王部長都必須在目前這個時刻在 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
3358.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
3386.034 |
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一級應變中心作證那是相關的狀況他們來趕過來這個會場當然還是要以全國的交通系統的安全是為首要的重要的一個基礎所以我們讓部長跟局長先去處理相關的這些應變的狀況那負責修法我們的林福山司長在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
3389.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
3406.409 |
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臨時長臨時長會來做相關的一個說明以上向各位報告那我們在三分鐘馬上就會開始以上 謝謝今天我們也會提供咖啡大家不用擔心咖啡不是交通部出的是我出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
3573.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
3581.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
現在開會本次公聽會在開議之前向各位與會者報告因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
3583.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
3609.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
7級以上的地震對臺灣的交通系統造成嚴重的衝擊所以交通部部長王國才以及公路總局陳文瑞局長目前都在一級應變中心一級應變中心已經開設然後我們視狀況等到整個交通安全系統穩定之後那部長跟局長在 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
3611.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
3612.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
考慮會不會過來我們也會來隨時掌握相關的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
3620.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
3641.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
道路交通安全處罰條例關係到交通安全的一個維護那相關的修法必須以最嚴謹的態度所以我依照立法院職權行使法第54條召開正式的公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
3642.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
3656 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
然後這個公聽會邀請各界的學者、專家、團體以及立委大家來共同討論然後我們會依據立法院職權行使法 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
3657.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
3677.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第58條在本次公聽會會議結束之後10日內必須將相關與會者的發言整理成報告這個報告必須交給立法院所有的委員以及出席的所有的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
3679.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
3700.176 |
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必須依照立法院職權行使法第59條就是針對相關的公聽會的內容作為立法委員針對特定立案修法的重要依據我們今天就會來進行相關的討論而且今天的公聽會是 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
3702.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
3716.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
正式的公聽會所以也跟委員會的發言轉播一樣全程都有直播向各位來做個提醒跟說明那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
3719.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
3741.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在此感謝各位委員、學者專家及相關代表的蒞臨本日研討的議題以討論提綱為準請各位自行參閱我現在介紹在場的委員林國成委員林佩祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
3745.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
3759.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我現在來介紹學者專家中華民國汽車運輸業駕駛員 全國總工會鄭麗嘉理事長中華民國汽車路線貨運商業工會 全國聯合會李育翔理事長全國汽車駕駛人權益聯盟理事長 劉鴻章理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
3773.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
3788.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
中華民國全國駕駛員職業總工會祕書長黃淑慧環路漁民行人入權促進會陳法軍代表行人臨時網推動聯盟陳凱琳理事長臺灣數位平台預約接送從業人員產業工會李威爾理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
3803.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
3828.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
台灣機車路權促進會 羅怡理事交通安全協會 陳鴻毅理事長台灣運輸移動科技派遣平台協會 曾鴻毅秘書長交通安全協會 林志學副理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
3833.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
3849.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
列席的官員公共運輸及監理司司長林福山陸政及盜安司黃韻貴司長綜合規劃司傅桂蘭副司長法制處許鴻達處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
3860.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
3886.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
公路總局因為局長陳文瑞在一級開設中心一級應變中心所以由副局長張順清因為部長在一級應變中心所以我特別邀請對於公路系統是他重要督導業務的交通部副部長次長我們的陳彥博次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
3892.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
3918.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
陳彥博次長以前也是高工局的局長也在相關的工作系統非常的熟悉運輸研究所林紀國所長內政部國土管理署都市基礎工程組檢任政工程師王錫明內政部警政署交通組黃毅山副組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
3923.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
3942.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
法務部法制司 謝右雲檢察官臺北市政府交通局檢任計政 楊清文新北市政府交通事件裁決處 顏佩儒課長 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
3947.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
3976.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
臺中市交通事件裁決處陳敏健秘書好 補介紹在場的委員黃婕委員林月琴委員好 首先我要邀請林福山司長做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
3988.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
4011.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士先生今天應邀出席《道路交通管理處罰條例》修法公聽會以下僅就行政院含送立法院審議的《道路交通管理處罰條例》第7條之一、63條、第63條之二修正草案的重點並依公聽會所列的民眾檢舉交通違規項目檢討方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
4014.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
4025.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
即違規點數項目及執行方式檢討方向民眾檢舉及違規祭典的配套措施檢討包括工程、教育、監理、執法等提綱來進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
4028.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
4047.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
首先,針對行政院函請立法院審議《道路交通管理處罰條例》修正草案的重點主要是考量在去年6月30日新修正《道路交通管理處罰條例》部分條文施行後去年全年死亡人數較111年是有下降,減少11人 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
4050.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
4059.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
道路交通安全部份是有改善的成效但是同時因為放寬民眾檢舉項目及增加即違規點數的項目導致民眾檢舉停車或臨時停車即違規點數等案件數量暴增 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
4066.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
4081.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
而依規定在一年內累計12點及調扣駕照兩個月各界反映已有嚴重影響職業駕駛人工作權並造成警察機關執法量能的負擔考量民眾檢舉確實已經背離當時立法的這個目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
4086.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
4092.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
另外,也因為道路實際環境配套措施尚未完備衍生相關實務的問題,所以檢討相關條例的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
4098.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
4126.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
維護道路交通安全及降低違規案件必須由中央及地方政府從工程、教育、監理、執法等面向共同進行改善道路交通安全基本法已在去年12月15日制定公佈並且在今年1月1日施行那目前也克正在推動制定行人交通安全設施條例明定各級政府之權者以落實提供完善安全的道路通行環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
4128.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
4149.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
另外各地方政府克正積極從工程面改善提供民眾及營業車輛妥適的上下客貨停車或臨時停車的行人空間希望從源頭來改善降低各類用戶人因道路環境未曾完備而產生的交通違規行為在行人環境及停車或臨時停車問題尚未改善前經綜合檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
4152.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
4164.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
分析交通事故所涉違規行為太陽區分不同危險程度希望從有效風險控管的角度全面檢視民眾檢舉及違規點數相關規定的合理性同時為兼顧職業駕駛人工作權及減少因民眾檢舉及及違規點數延伸之爭議交通部在 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
4176.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
4196.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
收集各界的意見檢討修法明確的處罰條例第7條之一63條63條之二的修正草案行政院113年3月7號院會決議通過之後同日也含送立法院來進行審議那主要重點包括三點第一點修正7條修正條文7條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
4201.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
4205.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
就民眾可檢舉的項目檢討刪除 部分可施以勸導好 請繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
4228.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
4241.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
修正條文第7條之一的重點是就民眾可檢舉的項目刪除部分可施予勸導不予舉發的違規事項第二個修正重點是修正條文63條重演認定違規行為及違規點數的方式限於當場舉發至案件時予以及違規點數排除進行舉發及民眾檢舉之情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
4251.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
4273.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
並修正道路交通安全講習扣抵違規點數之次數那第三個重點的部分是配套修正條例第63條之二是配合這個修正63條部分刪除有關進行舉辦案件及違規點數的規定那接下來針對本次公聽會所列提綱進行說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
4275.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
4294.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
提綱一就民眾檢舉交通違規項目檢討這個方向就如剛剛所說明去年6月30日施行這個處罰條例部分修正條文修正案其中有關於7條之一有關於民眾檢舉的部分是增加民眾可檢舉項目13項從46項增加為59項 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
4300.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
4314.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
增加可檢舉的項目主要是相關注意行人及違規臨時停車停車等行為那這個部分增加的一個這個項目那在這個事務上因為相關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
4317.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
4318.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
修法公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
4337.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
4357.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那行政院版含重審議的處罰條例7條之一就民眾可檢舉的項目主要是檢討刪除部分可施予勸導不予舉發之違規事項那可施予勸導不予舉發之違規事項主要是依據95年7月1日修正施行條例第92條增訂輕微違規勸導的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
4360.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
4388.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
及當時依照92條第4項的條文授權訂定違反道路交通管理事件統一裁判基準及處理細則第12條輕微違規得失與欠倒名與舉發之項目相關的項目規定系以最高罰款1200元以下為基礎原依據嚴厲修正最高罰款1200元以下輕微違規限縮不予民眾檢舉項目包括下列這個10項 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
4390.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
4414.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
第一項是騎乘機車未戴安全帽滑環500元第二項騎乘機車打行動電話滑環1000元第三項騎機車駕駛人這個邊開車邊吸煙滑環600元第四項倒車未顯示燈光或不注意行人包括大型車的部分那這個部分滑環是600到1200元第五項在橋樑隧道圓環等相關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
4417.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
4432.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
臨時停車,那這個是條例55條第一項第一款,划緩300到600元第6項,在交叉路口、公車造物站及消防車出入口5公尺內,臨時停車,這個部分是划緩是300到600元第7項,不亦順行或並排臨時停車,划緩300到600元 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
4438.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
4458.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
第8項是有關這個相關在禁止臨時停車這些處所這個停車的話 緩緩是600到1000第9項是在機場車站等公共場所出入口 這個停車緩緩是600到1200元第10項 佔用身心障礙格位緩緩600到1200元 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
4461.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
4484.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那針對本日公聽會首列討論提綱2 繼違規點數項目及執行方式檢討這個方向在去年6月30號施行這個處罰條例部分條文修正案之後原來在條例63條明文規定25項的計點項目那依照這個去年修正條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
4485 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
4512.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
改在授權在這個裁判細則第二條裡面來做規定然後在裁判細則去年修正是從這個25項的祭典項目增加30項變為這個55個項目那而且原來是當場攔查舉發的違規行為才予以祭典亦修正為這進行舉發包括檢察機關本身的科技執法及民眾檢舉之後的這個進行舉發均予以祭典 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
4513.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
4520.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
在同時放寬民眾檢舉項目及增加祭典項目後那整個祭典的這個案件量這個暴增 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
4522.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
4541.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那另外第二第二點的部分就是說進行舉發採證的相片或錄影無法得知實際駕駛人那實務上也出現不實陳報駕駛人冒名警惕及祭典黃牛等亂象考量違規祭典累計吊扣駕照除涉及一般民眾駕駛測量權意外亦攸關職業駕駛人駕駛資格及工作權其違規行為必須從嚴認定亦必須及防度規則不依實體審查而延伸之亂象 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
4551.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
4578.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
鑑於祭典制度因道路實際環境配套措施尚未完備衍生實務問題未取得道安與人民權益之平衡點交通部參酌社會各界意見以工程改善手段先替代建立執法手段在行人環境及這個相關停車問題尚未改善前引以修正違規祭典項目及執行方式包括修正條例63條當場舉發案件時與祭典 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
4581.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
4608.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
進行舉發不予祭典自願參加講習扣抵違規點數由一年一次兩點提高為一年兩次四點那另外配套這個呃配合63條的修正配套這個刪除有關於63條之二相關進行舉發案件及違規點數的規定那針對討論提高三呃民眾檢舉及違規祭典的配套措施這個檢討包括工程教育建立執法等 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
4610.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
4636.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這一次行政院含送立法院審議的《道路交通管理處罰條例》修正草案所以先說部分輕微違規項目不予民眾檢舉但是不會因此而降低執法強度也不會有處罰的漏洞各類駕駛人如有違反《道路交通管理》的這個違規行為均需處以緩緩並依情節依條例規定訂授、講習、祭典、吊扣或吊銷駕駛執照等之處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
4637.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
4656.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那為協助地方政府落實改善道路交通環境交通部在去年也頒布了4項指引包括4月份寒班人行空間改善原則5月份寒班改善機車交通環境之原則及做法7月份寒班行人專用或早開10項設置原則12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
4659.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
4682.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
12月份函班校園桌邊人行空間改善參考指引提供給各縣市依據來審視改善轄內道路交通環境那為觀測改善行人交通的政策決心行政院在去年5月也通過行人優先交通安全行動綱領從工程教育監理執法四大面向推動19項行動方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
4684.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
4710.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
結合跨部會及地方政府力量共同推動在去年8月更通過上位的行人交通安全政策綱領以推動道路交通基本法建置完整的公共運輸系統落實行人交通安全改善三大精進作為提出短中長期執行的項目在去年具體的成果以下大概重點報告在於工程的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
4711.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
4727.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
路口行人安全設施改善3486處行人早開戶或行人專用時箱也改善4753處在人行道改善的部分也改善167.73公里那這個校園周邊的部分也改善205校 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
4729.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
4744.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
非號誌入口的部分也改善了5000餘處在教育的部分也補助了高中以下學校實施交通安全課程然後也補助辦理交通安全課程實施教師的研習及高齡的宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
4748.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
4756.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
在經理面向部分擴大補助這個機車駕訓三萬五千餘人那另外一個部分也這個針對事辦機車道路駕駛訓練部也補助這個兩千這個餘人 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
4763.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
4790.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那在執法面向的部分在去年5月這個同步也加強相關這個未禮當行人的一個這個執法包括這個舉例入口不停讓行人將近10萬件人行道違規停車將近90萬件那會號字化入口衛衣標誌這個停車再開也這個舉發這個2萬這個一件那在行政院在去年也核定永續提升人行 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
4791.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
4810.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
安全計劃 計劃期程從這個113年到116年4年投入中央補助經費400億元 積極改善入口人行道安全通行環境從點置線層面進行入口道路示範區域之行人安全設施及人行道建設之人行空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
4811.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
4827.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
公程改善作為目前已經核定799處依照市入口改善的這個案件那分別有這個國土署及本部公務局這邊來這個協助地方政府相關的地方政府及各單位目前都在積極推動辦理當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
4830.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
4856.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
交通安全基本法在今年1號已經制定這個實行那在這個道安運作體系方面中央及地方分別設有道路交通安全匯報在中央是由行政院院長召開在地方則由直轄市各縣市政府所長來這個召開落實中央各機關及地方政府依權者推動道路交通安全的這個工作另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
4857.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
4875.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
在基本法裡面也明文規定就人車路、汽車運輸業、交易訊導、執法、緊急醫療救護、保險與研究發展等九大面向定定基本政策作為跨部會各級政府分層擬定計畫並落實分工執行事務的這個依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
4877.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
4885.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
在今年3月7號行政院也通過行人交通安全設施條例草案含重這大院來做審議那在3月27號也經委員會這個出審這個通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
4889.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
4919.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那未來這個行人交通安全設施條例明定內政部應會同各目的事業主管機關擬定行人交通安全設施推動計畫地方政府再依據訂定行人交通安全設施改善計畫每年公布執行情形並搭配獎程機制來徹底執行行人用路環境改善工作最後再補充報告本次這個處罰條例三個條文的修正主要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
4920.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
4946.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
考量希望以工程改善手段先替代監理執法手段相關修法系屬在人行環境及停車問題改善優化前的權宜措施交通部跟內政部會持續會同及促請地方政府務必依狹內道安防治需求從源頭改善道路交通環境以上報告謝謝各位的一個聆聽謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
4948.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
4973.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
好 來補充介紹現場的委員 牛許廷委員補充介紹 環路漁民行人入權促進會陳法軍代表中華民國消費者文教基金會交通委員會召集人李克聰博士 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
4978.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
4997.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
臺灣障礙者權利促進會 劉宇記副秘書長臺灣安全駕駛監督聯盟 林美羅理事長另外介紹新北市政府交通事件裁決處 嚴佩如嚴克長 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
5002.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
5025.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
桃園市政府交通事件察覺處徐課長 徐奕廷徐課長高雄市政府警察局交通警察大隊副大隊長 洪愛格 是不是 洪副大隊長與委人員發言之前 先宣告以下事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
5027.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
5050.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
學者專家及本院委員每位委員發言時間5分鐘第一輪發言結束後如需補充說明會再進行第二輪的一個發言委員發言請先到主席台前面登記學者專家發言也請到主席台 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
5052.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
5079.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
的右邊的發言台我們所有與會者學者專家團體代表發言請到右手邊的發言台學者專家兩位發言之後如有委員到場會穿插一位發言兩位學者專家團體代表發言完了之後會穿插一位立委的發言那我們現在暫定 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
5082.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
5098.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
11點休息10分鐘與會人員全部發言完畢之後我們會請交通部來做整體的回應那在這邊也向各位做個報告跟說明因為蘇花之間的公路系統遭受嚴重的破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
5099.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
5123.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
鐵路也暫停行駛,所以現在是進行海運的接駁輸澳到花蓮所以部長現在在坐鎮一級應變中心等到處理相關的狀況掌握穩定之後,部長再視狀況來到我們的這個公聽會然後這個公聽會,本次公聽會不進行詢問也不處理提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
5124.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
5142.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我們現在請登記第一位的學者專家 汽車路線的貨運商業全國聯合會李育翔理事長發言然後下面請汽車運輸業駕駛員全國總工會理事長鄭麗嘉理事長準備在這邊不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
5151.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
5174.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好我再跟各位補充說明今天的發言今天的公聽會全程立法院都有直播每一位委員的發言的內容按照立法院職權刑事法第58條在10日內都會做成報告交給所有的立法委員以及出席的相關代表以上做個報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
5180.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
5194.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
主席、各位議會的專家代表大家早安我代表汽車路線工會來這邊花言汽車路線工會我先說明一下我們就是宅配簡單講就是宅配那我們是挨家挨戶的手我們跟貨運工會比較不一樣那我們主要的會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
5195.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
5213.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
新竹物流、嘉里大龍、載機便跟載配同所以看起來就是以載配所以這個道安條例其實從去年到現在我們工會都很積極的在跟交通部來做溝通那也感謝林福山林司長的幫忙還有趙專委的協助齁那稍微有一點轉機 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
5214.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
5243.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
所以我要先表達我們公會的立場那職業駕駛人他都有他的責任他維護道路的安全但是我們現場就剛才我所說的我們現場在做配送的時候確實有他的困難度我們臨停的機會特別高那我們對於愛家愛護的送要不要送到樓上我們跟計程車又不一樣計程車或許他還能在車上我們是要離開車要去做配送所以以現場的所有困難度來講我們面臨的困難更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
5245.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
5266.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
違規祭典會影響到每一個職業駕駛人的工作權利所以這個部分也跟0530市長之前表達過很多次希望說可以再重新檢討有關駕駛的一個祭典的辦法針對這一次的修正希望說在執法時要注意第一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
5269.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
5287.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
在一千兩百元滑環以下的是不是可以就不要再記點?剛才林司長有提到了齁那這個部分可能稍微放寬一下對於職業駕駛人他是每天都是在從事這個工作跟一般的駕駛就不太一樣他就是以駕駛為工作所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
5288.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
5303.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我們自己內部也會做控制啦,對於那些駕駛習慣比較不好的,或者是常常違規的,我們除了做教育訓練之外我們針對重大闖紅燈、闖情平交道除了記過之外,我們就開除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
5304.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
5320.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
雖然現在人口少化從事駕駛職業工作的台灣人民並不多但是我們也是要做好維護道路安全的一個責任那第二個是民眾檢舉的部分是希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
5324.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
5349.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
每天僅算一次,不要連續跟排,以前也發現到在中壢地區有發現那種連續跟排的然後再來是希望說,停車格的問題,上次有跟曾文燦曾副院長那時候有提到那個停車格嚴重的不足,面臨我們這種路線貨運,面臨道路的配送,這個可能會很麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
5350.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
5377.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
再來是檢舉的違規廷違廷的應該考量其他其他車輛的通行那不再影響的不影響車輛通行的情況之下是不是可以稍微放寬一下這個是因為我們要配送確實有它難度那最後是剛才林司長有提到現在已經放寬公會針對那個一年祭典累計12點 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
5378.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
5396.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我們工會到目前為止統計出來因為這樣而被調購駕照已經超過將近100人了那有些工會的公司他是乾脆用扣車牌因為人不好請嘛所以他乾脆扣車牌那當然針對這一點我們還是希望說在從事藍領工作在做職業在做配送的這些駕駛員其實是很辛苦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
5407.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
5430.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那個罰款對他們來講已經是很嚴重的那如果又要違規祭典然後又要那個祭滿12點又要吊扣駕照兩個月對現場的這些辛苦的同仁真的是負擔相當的大那也感謝交通部的協助那我們希望說這個部分可以稍微放寬一下謝謝主席 謝謝大家 謝謝好 謝謝我們接下來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
5438.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
5441.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
鄭麗嘉理事長發言下一位黃婕委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
5449.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
5465.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
主席還有幾位委員以及我們今天現場的所有的我們的現業同進大家早安大家好我代表中華民國汽車運輸業簡單講一下我們汽車運輸業的駕駛基本上就是全部都是職業駕駛涵蓋在九大運輸業都是我們的會員好我們下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
5471.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
5497.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
好這是在下一頁在下一頁謝謝好因為那個去年6月30號實施了以後然後導致我們因為道路工程環境沒有改善以致我們職業價值陷入天人交戰那不管是載客或載貨那都有可能因為祭典那不載客不載貨那有可能生計就受影響那載的客載的貨可能就因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
5498.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
5507.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
因為這樣子所以生計也受了影響那很多人說只要你不要違規就不怕被檢舉可是我們要試問 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
5513.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
5542.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那我們要試問到底哪裡有合法的計程車的招呼站有多少合法的貨運的上下客貨的地方那如果這些配套措施都沒有然後你去年6月30號就已經實施的新的道安條例其實確實會影響到我們的生計我們職業駕駛每天在道路上平均差不多10個小時可是我們的計點制度其實是跟一般的所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
5542.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
5543.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
新政策實施導致生計嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
5558.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
5577.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
也因為祭典的制度跟民眾檢舉的狀況所以導致我們現在衝擊到我們很多駕駛朋友他不願意去幫助所謂的弱勢團體搭車包括一些復康巴士以及我們一些計程車的所謂的身障計程車等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
5578.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
5588.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
因為我們這些駕駛他必須要花更長的時間來服務這些所謂的老人或者是年幼的或是身障人士因為他花的時間越長其實被檢舉的風險越高這個其實會導致我們現在我們社會其實並沒有那麼和諧的一個狀況這是面臨到一個現實上的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
5599.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
5610.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那我也必須跟各位委員跟各位先進講我們現在的統計我們全台灣現在到新制到現在為止職業駕駛已經被調扣兩個月的已經高達2500位駕駛其實數據可能更恐怖那集滿6點的就是半格的集滿6點的其實已經高達15000人那這個數字其實是會一直往上跑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
5627.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
5635.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那在這樣子的情形之下大家也可以看一下圖的這張圖這個其實在臺灣的道路上到處都看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
5636.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
5660.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那試問大家就是說如果你是一位不管是普通駕駛或是自用駕駛或是職業駕駛尤其是職業駕駛你到底應該要怎麼停車停在中間的你就變成並排臨時停車那停在左側那個是人行道的專用車道那那個就是禁止臨時停車的地方那試問大家我們到底要怎麼停好下一頁好再下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
5664.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
5664.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
民眾檢舉制度不應該檢討嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
5688.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
5704.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
好,所以我們對民眾檢舉的部分,我們針對我們覺得他會影響的事項如下那檢舉人因為道路上行駛的時候會分心,造成交通的事故那用路人會擔心被檢舉,某人檢舉造成形成的壓迫,我聲音到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
5706.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
5711.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
第二輪可以繼續的發言做補充在這邊跟大家說明一下我們每一位發言都到右邊的發言台麥克風上面那個紅燈你要按 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
5728.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
5756.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
前面的按鈕才會有聲音第二每位發言的時間是5分鐘當你發言到第4分鐘剩1分鐘的時候會響一下鈴是會提醒你還剩1分鐘然後5分鐘的時候我們這邊也會按鈴來向大家做個報告然後跟各位再一次的說明每位5分鐘我們還有第二輪還有第二輪可以做補充的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
5757.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
5783.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
現在請黃婕委員發言下一位請全國駕駛員職業總工會黃淑慧秘書長準備好 謝謝謝謝主席那我就開始 OK |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
5785.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
5812.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那我相信今天願意出席在這邊的所有的來賓都是非常希望可以確保行人的安全然後我們共同的目標都是希望可以達到交通零死亡只是說現在交通部在具體施行上面的這個程度阿我覺得各方會有一些意見但我認為現在的交通部推出來的這個修正案還是太粗糙了因為我不認為駕駛的生存權跟用路人的安全是互相焊隔互相衝突的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
5813.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
5838.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
所以我這個是希望大家該開公聽會可以在這邊好好討論就是找到共識的那首先我講一下說這個關於什麼是違罪我認為要從需求性可控制性跟危險性三個檢討原則來跟大家討論第一個啊現在交通部提出的這十個項目裡面其實我認為不是說每一個都是職業駕駛有需求的什麼意思呢就是你們現在說這十個我們違罪不舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
5841.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
5856.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
但是對職業價值來說我沒有說這十個項目都會影響到我的生計或我的生存權所以我覺得這兩件事不應該就是你們很粗糙的一刀切就說一千二以下那這些我們就一次都全部開放那我不認為這樣能解決到實質的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
5859.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
5859.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
5875.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
5875.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
職業駕駛人的需求是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
5901.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
5930.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
他們認為現在道路設計的現況對他們來說非常不公平而且很困擾的有哪些那用路人的需求又是哪些你們要先對焦才能解決問題嗎而不是非常粗糙的一刀切那另外一個是可控制性就是現在這些需求裡面其實我也認為職業駕駛需要給他們一些交通工程上面的配套例如說什麼像我在高雄有很多職業駕駛跟我說他們是送貨的結果你一整段路連一個裝卸貨的地方都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
5931.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
5951.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那請問他們要去哪裡裝卸貨那就例如說有開長照車的然後他們長者的需求就是希望你可以在他家門口就接送他不然他對他上下車完全不方便可是整段都是紅線請問你要我去哪裡停這個是職業駕駛會需要的需求也是真的有民眾提出來的那我覺得應該你們要提出具體的配套要說他們怎麼協助你而不是強迫他們違規這個非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
5957.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
5957.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
危險性 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
5977.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5996.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那我覺得如果你們這個用這樣的標題下去對很多人來說就會覺得交通部是不是對於違罪的定義跟大家不一樣你們不覺得這個危險呢我不希望交通部被貼上這樣的標籤所以什麼是違罪不舉光是這個標題我就覺得非常的差勁喔那最後我講一下就是從這三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5998.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
6013.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我認為必須要跟大家對焦跟重新討論的就是你們應該要更細緻的去討論到底什麼是大家需求在哪裡那對於怎樣才可以同時保障用路人的需求那最後我講一下就是我覺得要同步檢討的其實是檢舉的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
6015.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
6016.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
總檢舉人數82354人 總檢舉人數1萬分之一 檢舉超過19萬件 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
6036.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
6059.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
意思就是說我們全台灣有50個非常很積極在檢舉的人他們一個人就可以產生全台灣這麼多的檢舉量那所以我覺得應該要去討論的就是這個檢舉制度是不是有一些討論的空間而不是讓他變成一個可能跟鄰居互相報復的工具啊或者是他其實他的用意也不是要去為了維護你的用路人的安全而是刻意針對他想要去針對的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
6060.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
6082.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以我覺得這兩件事是可以同步討論的就是到底違罪不舉你們的內涵意義可以更細緻的討論那另外一個我們同步來討論檢舉制度好那最後我想講一下上了車大家都是駕駛下了車大家都是行人所以我必須要強調希望交通部新的方案絕對不可以造成職業駕駛跟我們用路人的對立以上我的建議謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
6085.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
6099.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
謝謝現在請全國駕駛員職業總工會黃淑慧秘書長發言也請數位平台預約接送從業人員工會理事長李威爾理事長準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
6109.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
6111.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
好謝謝主席召開今天的公聽會讓我們可以把我們基層的聲音在這邊跟各位報告我們不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
6122.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
6140.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
就職業駕駛來講,他如果要一口氣又吃飯而已,那加拿大救防局委員所提到的,交通違規需要,那不要讓一個使用汽車的人跟行人去做對立,其實不用說,那個交通部對於處罰條例稍稍改改 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
6141.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
6141.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
委員會：召開議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
6171.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
6172.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
6190.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
6211.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
剪取的那個祭典的制度那還有能夠在12點之內都要有個自費講習的每一年的次數呢增加為兩次那這兩個點的話我看到今天的修正版都已經進來了那所以呢我們也樂建交通部跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
6211.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
6234.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
假如說立法院能夠這樣走向,那是對我們價值人會很好的為什麼說需要民眾檢舉這個違規制度去把那幾乎阿伯都說完全廢掉啦齁但是有關於祭典,因為祭典會涉及到架腳架腳會涉及到我們的工作錢,就是這樣下來所以有一個資訊啦齁,在那112年的6月30號 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
6237.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
6265.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
新北市的話新北市的資料的話台北市的資料的話每個小時有42件檢舉那新北市呢每個小時有84檢舉那在10月份的那個新聞有一個報導每個小時108件你算看嘛108件再除以60的話等於是一分鐘差不多一分鐘三兩天這個量都要變成今天我們必須檢討處罰制度的最大來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
6266.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
6274.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
就是被濫用了原本的檢舉制度倒是希望說能夠協助行政令先暫停 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
6299.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
6301.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
6310.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
6335.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好不好意思齁我們繼續好謝謝主席好在這邊往下走齁就是說我們肯認有關於修法的方向呢是進行舉發還有民眾檢舉的部分呢不以祭典那假如說違規的話該處罰金款那個划款的話那我們就不在這個話下了齁那另外一個就是也肯認智慧獎席抵扣點數的部分呢從 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
6336.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
6341.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
每年一次那修正增加為兩次這是肯定的部分那有兩個建議簡單講 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
6346.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
6363.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
現在處罰條例上面會有一個違規行為結果處罰公司跟處罰個人比如說我用一個例子來講處罰條例的29條第一項還有30條的第一項都是操縱那操縱的30條29條是處罰汽車所有人這個汽車所有人 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
6368.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
6368.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
希望在監理單位好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
6396.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
6422.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
好那建立單位建立那個建立機關能夠在祭典違規行為的人都要在祭典3次的時候能夠簡訊通知一下6次的時候呢通知一下9次的時候通知一下這個通知只是提醒他你不要再違規了讓他有修正自己也那個注意一下自己的那個交通行為的部分好以上報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
6425.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
6439.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
謝謝,我們現在請數位平臺EUA接送從業員工從業員工會理事長李威爾理事長發言下一位請林月琴立委準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
6442.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
6459.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
大家好 我是威爾我就前面不打招呼了我就直接進入主題我想因為我們的公會的立場就是我們就是計程車司機所以我今天不談太多之前我們已經在交通部或這個地方大家談的那種 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
6460.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
6460.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
6481.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
6502.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
道路交通設計不良的違規還有耗資與警告標示不良的違規還有第三人責任的違規我不知道這我列舉的這四個違規大家認不認同但是現在所有的違規都要算在駕駛人的身上嗎都要算在我計程車身上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
6503.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
6513.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
主動性違規跟非主動性違規以及道路設計不良的違規這些全部都要算在我駕駛人身上嗎請大家思考這個問題那對我們在開車的計程車司機公平嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
6519.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
6534.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
違規停車我把它分成兩件事情我覺得大家也要先定義清楚第一件事情是違規停車如果今天我白目道我今天在紅線上面我就把車停在那邊我人就走了我就停一個晚上這誰的錯我的錯啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
6536.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
6536.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
零時違規停車 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
6556.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
6584.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那這個責任到底 兩個的責任到底是誰要來負這個責任啊我們應該先把它釐清這件事 這兩個維庭的事情當你維庭之後你就會發現 大家把它釐清之後把前面這 我提的這兩個 這幾個東西先把它釐清之後大家就比較容易有共識 才有辦法繼續可以走了下去謝謝 在下一頁好 如果今天道路交通處罰條例不修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
6585.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
6613.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
會有什麼結果你我的生活會有什麼結果來 下一頁在行人聯盟的角度我可以跟你保證絕對不會有受傷人數減少死亡人數減少為什麼因為現在你們只要求一件事情硬體改善可是在死亡跟受傷這件事情是只有硬體改善就可以解決了嗎如果我們今天以日本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
6615.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
6640.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
經驗日本花了30年去改善硬體交通可是你們從來不提一件事情日本在教育這一塊到底做了多少事情用路人包含駕駛包含機車包含行人不要把所有的用路人歸咎於駕駛這件事情來 下一頁對消費者哩 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
6641.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
6656.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
如果今天道路交通處罰條例你不修正你我的生活我跟各位保證一件事情你有沒有發現今天捷運停擺了你最需要誰計程車司機啊我跟各位報告啊今天早上Uber的費率4倍你知道為什麼嗎捷運停擺早上沒有司機要出來啊知道為什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
6666.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
6693.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
因為我們司機收到的檢舉在我們司機的3000人群裏面所有的司機都說我現在被檢舉的時間都是白天的尖峰上班時間啊檢舉達人車外站去上班啦車開了去上班行車記錄器記錄一個早上啊下了班他把他檢舉出來啊所以我們的經驗是告訴你現在最大的檢舉都是在尖峰時間所以現在尖峰時間消費者叫不到車啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
6695.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
6721.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
為什麼 因為司機不敢出來啊另外 違停的部分 客人要我在這裡下車 我不下車我跟各位講啊 我前一陣子才被客人揍了兩拳啊就因為他叫我停在那邊 我跟他說我沒辦法停我被他尻了兩拳 他賠了我五千塊這種問題你今天道路交通管理不處罰 不修正消費者跟司機之間的衝突就會越來越多再下一頁 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
6723.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
6738.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
對司機來講我今天不太想一直在講司機的立場我覺得我們要講的是所有這個社會今天你不修正它會產生所有的問題司機的收入會越來越低罰單會越來越多生活就會斷垂這是司機的角度再下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
6739.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
6758.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
立法委員的角度呢?現在總共開了多少的罰單?如果今天這個修正條例,我們的委員不願意去面對,就會產生民怨最後我要提醒一件事情,如果今天反對的委員,請你給我30分鐘你來坐我的車看看,你就知道困難到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
6760.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
6762.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
臺灣全國汽車駕駛人權益聯盟理事長劉鴻章 請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
6777.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
6778.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
6794.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
6822.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
7 繳罰單然後心痛5秒鐘因為不是只有要罰錢而已違規祭典事實上希望能夠落實祭典制度來減少重大那個違規累犯還有落實從人管理來增加我們的道安那事實上目前我們現在看到這幾年國際對於道路交通安全事故的防治策略多半會採安全系統導向的來避免造成致命性的跟嚴重傷害的一些事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
6822.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
6823.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
實證基礎 譬如頻率 嚴重性 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
6847.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
6847.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
6871.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
6896.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
淘汰要我們的闖紅燈跟嚴重超速這重大違規者因為剛剛前面就講說有些嚴重又常發生的屬於不可容忍的那個風險就應該要優先來做處理了可是當把這個拿掉的時候進舉不祭典的時候這兩個我們就看下一頁事實上重大違規以半年為比較基礎2到3年違規再犯人數倍增的 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
6896.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
6897.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
道路交通安全觀測 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6918.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6938.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那兩年內闖紅燈四次以上者發生事故的風險是一次的二到三倍所以闖紅燈本來就會事實上會再度的再發生而且它的致死率又是這麼的高的時候那反而不把它拿掉我也想問的是交通部到底考量的會是什麼下一頁那國內的違規項目裡邊的風險這個分級表這一樣也是交通部的一些資料那這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6947.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6963.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
所謂的致死模式跟發生事故的模式 裏邊各位可以看到超速違規停車跟闖紅燈 這三個反而會是在這次裏邊可能就會即將被排除 如果沒有通過啊 這類風險 高風險行為將不會再透過違規祭典難以遏止危險駕駛人 下一頁那所以這十項裏邊所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6973.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6996.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
為罪不祭典來下一頁那我們自己再看就是說國內外的研究都指出交通部自有運營所這就是你的幕僚單位你的幕僚單位本來就提醒在2016年的時候他就有針對於民國96年到100年間85萬件跟機車相關的交通事故就發現在入段當中機車跟小型車已入邊停靠問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6997.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
7024.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
導致車禍是最為主要的占了20.6%德國相同也是有這樣的一個研究在2020年的時候發表這個研究也說近五分之一的行人跟自行車車事故跟路邊停車有關那表示什麼闖紅燈、超速跟路邊停車這件事情都是會造成嚴重的死亡或者是致死率比較高的或是傷害比較高的一些事件下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
7026.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
7028.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
本來就嚴重部署 實務上也都在處理文書工作根本沒有到路邊去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
7044.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
7044.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
立法院第11會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
7063.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
7087.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
7089.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
7097.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
謝謝現在請全國台灣汽車駕駛人權益聯盟理事長劉鴻章理事長發言下一位請台灣機車路權促進會羅伊理事準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
7101.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
7125.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
主席各位先進大家好我請代表全國汽車駕駛人權聯盟這邊來做一個報告剛剛之前所有的我們職業團體其實說的都很清楚那些條條款款的東西我們就不再多說我們現在主要我們要要求的是我們職業駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
7126.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
7126.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
7136.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
7158.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們剛剛聽到交通部司長林司長對於在課綱第3點第8頁地方有說到很多的道路規劃改善我們要提出的就是說我們職業駕駛每天有10萬輛的計程車在外面在車道在行駛的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
7164.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
7171.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
每天有200萬次的上車跟下車那在道路這麼使用頻繁的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
7174.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
7195.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
請問我們職業駕駛上下車處在哪裡我們要提出這一點就是因為道路工程改善還沒有完善之前為什麼我們會提出這種抗議從去年6月30開始的時候我一再的提出人車分流人就是行人 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
7197.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
7212.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
車就是我們職業駕駛一般的駕駛人那在這個道路的人車交通號誌沒有做一個分立的話常常就會造成用路人跟職業駕駛這些駕駛人的一個衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
7215.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
7232.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
在國外我之前都有談過在國外人家這個車輛如果綠燈的時候那行人一定是紅燈的他不會讓行人跟車輛去產生衝突產生在這個危險的這個路口但我們台灣的路口很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
7234.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
7257.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們請放第一張圖片剛剛大家手上都有一個文宣在第二頁的地方交通部在對於這個路口10公尺禁止臨時停車我們如何界定如何界定這個路口這個標誌交通部明文有規定但是地方政府在劃設這些停車格 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
7258.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
7258.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
修法公聽會． |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
7271.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
7298.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
被違規檢舉那這個交通法入口怎麼去界定這10公尺那這有四個版本大家可以好好仔細看一下我們希望這個部分交通部能夠將這個10公尺這個空間把它界定清楚還有車道車道是供汽車來使用並不是停車格我們的停車格真的是劃好劃滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
7299.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
7299.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
10公尺不能停車11到20公尺能不能界定避車彎 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
7316.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
7316.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
7339.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
7347.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
謝謝我們現在請臺灣機車路權促進會羅怡理事發言下一位劉雪婷立委請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
7356.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
7372.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
主席各位委員還有各位團體代表大家好我是台灣機車路線促進會的理事羅怡那我在這邊我們必須要為機車的用路人來發聲我們必須要去說明說若依照這次行政院交通部所提出的道路交通管理修正案來這樣子順利通過的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
7374.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
7390.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那未來在台灣的路徹他所形成的一個狀態就是路徹就完全開放給所有的用路人來停車而且呢我們被圍停所妨礙交通的人民並沒有權利可以來救濟的管道以我們自己的經驗我們打電話給警察說有違規停車 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
7395.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
7413.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
之前有人說10分鐘之前就會到案我相信這個非常違背我們自己的個人經驗我自己曾經在新店打電話舉報人行到上面的違停我打了三通一個小時打了三通警察第二個小時後才來而且更重要的是來他也只是開單他並沒有辦法直接去排除這樣子違停的一種樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
7414.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
7432.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以它的危害依然在那我們的機車的用路人我們不只要去面對路側的違停的車輛在內側車道又有進行機車我們必須要強調說在許多的縣市仍然是有試車道但是內側是進行機車的設計在新北市這樣的地方就有很多那路側充滿違停但內側又進行機車我們想請問機車應該去騎什麼樣的路 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
7439.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
7465.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
機車用路人安全行駛的權利在哪裡而且更荒謬的是絕大部分的圍停依照這次的草案依照這次的修正不能夠被檢舉、祭典那機車為了閃避外側的圍停起到內側進行街道反而可以被檢舉反而可以被算是違規定行駛車道而且更荒謬大家想像一個畫面圍停的車輛的駕駛人可以坐在車上然後呢去拍照檢舉那一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
7466.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
7467.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
修法公聽會：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
7489.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
7489.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
修法公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
7508.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
7525.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
財安全的交通環境然後造成大家都買車造成停車會供不應求然後又把機車最後面可以去行駛的外側的空間提供給各種車輛來維挺為什麼機車用路人總是被犧牲的那一個明明台灣就有一千多萬輛的機車我們認為整個道交條例違規紀點的檢舉還有包含檢舉制度確實有討論的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
7533.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
7559.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
各類的用路人在現在極度不完善的道路的交通設計環境之下的確常常會被迫違規如同剛剛的許多職業價值團體、貨運司機團體所談到的一樣但是我們認為機車用路人的權益卻始終不被中央跟地方的行政機關所重視我們看見這些制度可以被改革但必須要有相應的配套哪怕是說像剛剛有談到貨運司機他們有停車的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
7561.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
7575.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
你在停車的時候 在旁邊加一個三角錐去警示每一年都有機車的用路人 撞到貨車他那個後板 四條那種的 那種奧巴馬撞到 然後失手分離每一年都有這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
7576.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
7592.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們只要求說至少他會有相關的配套讓我們有個安全行駛的空間我們期待也懇求行政跟立法機關可以看見機車用路人的需求看見全台灣一千多萬輛機車的安全的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
7593.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
7609.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
機車在內側不能夠行駛內側車道機車不能夠去用內側相對安全的行駛空間因為道安99條的打壓已經長達數十年如今外側車道又要被拿去全面開放停車這樣子毫無配套措施的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
7611.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
7616.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我們臺灣機車路權促進會實在是很難說我們贊同最後面我們也要去補充今天地震剛剛看到蘇發又坍塌了機車不能夠騎蘇花改不能夠騎南花改不能夠去騎這種安全的道路在市區道路外側車道未來充滿了違規停車內側車道又不能夠騎外側車道違規不能夠被檢舉不能夠被進點機車散圍停到內側車道 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
7636.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
7636.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
謝謝在 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
7666.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
7687.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
接下來請劉許廷立委來發言下一位請運輸移動科技派遣平台協會的秘書長曾宏毅秘書長準備主席不好意思我們放一下投影片好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
7698.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
7718.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
好 謝謝主席這我想今天這個我要先對交通部跟警政署的兩份報告提出一些指教這個我們現在在討論這個修法條例的報告那大家當然在討論到底哪一些算違罪不舉也就是說這個檢舉制度在反變化前後但我沒有在這份報告裡面看到任何的數據資料到底有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
7719.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
7741.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
多少件的檢舉案件是由個人所為還是由團體所為造成什麼樣的影響你們對於違罪的定義到底是什麼有什麼樣的數據跟理據做支撐這裡面通通都沒有這我覺得是不夠周延的那當然你可以講今天是一個公聽會的場合然後大家各抒己見這我不反對但是馬上我們要進入條文審查的時候我希望這些資料可以被確保第二個我會譴責一下警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
7742.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
7769.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
李先生在上面堂而皇之地寫說﹖經評估於實務﹖讓違罪不舉這件事情﹖並無自愛難行﹖所以可以配合交通部來辦理說﹖如果民眾認為這個交通違規有害交通秩序﹖可以打110﹖讓員警實施現場稽查﹖不會影響民眾協助警察改善交通秩序的權利你警政署真的有接地氣嗎本席過去是桃園市議員我非常瞭解基層警力不足的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
7771.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
7771.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
今天我們要討論這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
7799.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
7824.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
道路交通管理處罰條例的熱修正這我們都同意每一個政策在推動的時候它應該要反覆平衡這是沒有錯的但是反覆平衡平衡機制不表示政策可以反覆改變過去我們都講說有檢舉機制後來很多人抗議所以變成所謂的違罪布局違罪布局上路之後發現台灣變成真正的行人地獄所以在去年的6月底的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
7825.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
7854.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
有通盤檢討不只把檢舉機制恢復還加上了祭典制度那現在當然就變成職業駕駛受創甚深那到現在當然因應民怨照理來講這政策要針對執行之後去做檢討去做平衡在兩兆的意見中找中間點這叫政治可是問題是我們的政府直接大開倒車又回到過去所謂為罪不舉的這個狀況那這真的是一個合理的措施嗎我想請大家看一張照片我們今天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
7855.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7868.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
包含內政部前一段時間我們都講說我們要有更友善的行人設施我們編很多的預算在本區的選區龜山這工程叫長根新驛站是一個人本的人行道的工程本區非常支持我也覺得他非常好但是我告訴你他蓋出來現在長這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7871.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7898.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
摩托車直接騎在人行道上把人行道當成機車的快速道路這項狀況一大堆我們政府投資了超過3億元拓寬人行道但是如果我們沒有與時俱進去讓用路人有更進步的觀念有更安全的觀念沒有逐步培養他良好習慣的過程我們花再多的資源去投入人本工程請問會有意義嗎所以我覺得這件事情當然需要妥善的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7900.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7929.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
適當的平衡不應該變成政策的反覆本席在這邊有幾個意見跟大家做報告第一個我們理解如果用祭典制度的話絕對會衝擊職業價值的生計這一點我也要請這個相關的入權的團體要稍微能夠諒解因為我們都同意阿現在的硬體配套是不夠完整的如果踩得太嚴格相對來講另外一邊也有不同意見所以我們要在這個過程中求取平衡所以祭典機制應該在法規上修法予以檢討這本席竟表同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7930.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7948.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
第二 我覺得檢舉的數量是不是能夠做一個討論跟限制因為我們調局資料 比如說桃園市有一半年檢舉九千多件剛剛前面也有講 台北市一年檢舉一萬多件少數人的特別強力的行為反而招致了這個機制 沒有辦法順利的來平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7951.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7965.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這兩件事可以特案檢討但是這兩件事情的特案檢討並不表示我們交通部可以一推265所以我們通通改成違罪不舉然後把這個問題通通交給社會承擔這叫成本外部化這我們完全不能夠同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7966.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7983.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那本期是內政委員會的委員會要特別提醒你用這種方式絕對基層的警力是非常非常大的負擔啦你如果要講說我們有機會可以說所謂的違罪布局或者是回歸政府執行的機制我就問我們的交通助理員呢我們相關的科技執法這些配套呢這些東西有上路嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7984.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
8010.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這些東西如果沒有上路的時候你把這些東西全部用違罪布局的角度然後把它推得一干二淨難道我們不會再往行人地獄又靠近嗎我再次強調我們可以平衡但不能反覆現在政府的方向就是反覆本來可以不要現在又很嚴格不是很嚴格就是通通沒有這方向絕對不正確我們希望在今天的公聽會還有接下來法條主要審查大家可以發揮理性務實的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
8011.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
8015.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
讓這個政策可以回到平衡的機制而不是反反覆覆的改變 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
8025.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
8052.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
陳凱琳理事長發言完畢之後我們休息10分鐘第二我們中午會準備便當各位與會團體我們這個便當是由交通委員會處理那交通部沒有處理我們的便當他們便當他們自己處理大家可以放心另外我們還有一些團體代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
8053.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
8076.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
因為高鐵的相關交通系統的延誤還沒有到達現場他們也轉達訊息說他們一定會到如果我們第一輪發言完畢之後還沒有到的這些團體代表來到現場我們還是會給他第一輪五分鐘的時間先向各位做個說明現在請曾宏毅秘書長來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
8080.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
8104.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
陳宏義秘書長下一位請交通安全協會陳宏義理事長準備主席各位與會先進大家早安我想我們台灣運輸業派遣平台協會其實我們主要的成員是所謂的平台業者運輸業然後你使用APP或是科技運輸派遣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
8104.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
8109.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
臺灣大車隊臺灣最大的建車派遣平臺他們的平臺就有兩個顧客一個是駕駛因為駕駛是透過這個平臺在載客另外一個更大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
8130.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
8158.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
對象就是我們的消費者也就是我們的乘客所以其實我們自己的角色裡面就會同時看到兩端給我們的訊息一方面是司機給我們的反饋一方面是我們的乘客給我們的反饋那我們協會裡面包括像Fu Panda他們自己也是一樣他們這樣的平台他們也有所謂的外送員跟他們的乘客訂戶的這樣的一個狀況那所以站在這個角度來看其實我們今天看到這樣的一個會議好像感覺上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
8161.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
8185.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
消費者行人跟駕駛在做衝突這一點我們事實上是很掙扎的因為我們事實上同時看到了兩端的狀況今天我們來檢討這個問題的是整個問題的根源大家都希望能夠促進交通安全我想所有的用路人也都是希望這個目標但是可能大家都忽略了一點我們今天在看這個問題的時候如果真的要徹底解決交通問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
8192.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
8211.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
三角形的三個端點包含三個成分一個是用路人一個是法規一個是道路環境一個是空間一個是使用者一個是規範這三個是同時構成我們交通安全因素的三個重要成因 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
8212.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
8240.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那我們今天去年6月在處理的問題是什麼是在法規方面做處理那這個處理的結果是什麼就是用路人跟現況環境沒有同步處理的情況底下我們只著重在法規那當然就是失衡嘛因為真正的重點事實上是用路人啊用路人如何有一個好的一個習慣或者是好的環境來共同使用這個道路這個才是真正的交通安全的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
8241.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
8267.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
所以也因為去年6月這樣的一個處理的結果我們也聽到我們的駕駛員包含外送員也好他們每天在道路上所碰到的問題都是不得不違規然後不得不被檢舉不得不因為生計的問題而必須去做出許多奇奇怪怪的手段比如說我們也接到很多司機跟我們告訴我們說他們現在不太敢去載所謂的身葬者 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
8267.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
8267.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
修法公聽會：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
8287.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
8306.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
強加用把所有的重點都放在所謂的法規上面所導致的結果所以這樣的失衡如果真的要解決我們當然也要去做一個適度的導正所以今天交通部所提出來這個修法的大方向我們是支持的因為確實是矯枉過正導致了 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
8309.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
8326.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
現在道路上使用者不含消費者跟所謂的職業駕駛之間的這樣的一個失衡的狀況這個方向絕對是要討論的 絕對是要檢討的那至於說 細部上到底要怎麼來檢討我們也同意就是說 今天所謂的違罪的這個項目裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
8329.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
8353.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
有關於現狀底下職業駕駛無法實際符合這個法規的狀況我們一定要把它做一個調整那至於這個以外的跟所謂職業駕駛生計或者是實際駕駛無法實際遵守以外的這些條款我們也認為這個東西是可以討論的不一定要完全不能夠去做調整所以我想這個方向上我希望大家今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
8354.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
8380.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
不管是路權團體不管是我們的駕駛員團體我們不應該是站在一個對立的一個立場反而應該是從今天開始大家應該坐下來好好從我剛剛提到這三個角度我們共同來要求政府不管中央政府地方政府針對這三個端點一定要同時去做有效的調整而不是一直著重在法規的部分因為法規是最後面重點還是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
8380.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
8381.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
現在請交通安全協會陳宏毅理事長發言下一位洪森漢委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
8417.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
8444.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
各位先進 各位指導我們大家安全這個教育的這個各個單位那臺灣交通安全協會理事長陳榮毅第一次的發言對於這一次我們的這個道路交通管理處罰條例這個公聽會我們提出的最重要就是說我們常常講交通的三個E但是我們常常忘記了交通有三個S |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
8445.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
8462.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
三個S呢 今天大家會在這裡第一個就是說 我們少了三個S哪三個S 給用路人的選擇權 我們失去了選擇權因為他沒有第二個的service 就是在道路的規劃建設上面他沒有提供給我們路陣的服務 還有這個周邊道路設計的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
8467.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
8490.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
然後第三個才是Security是對我們的保護現在講都在為我們保護但是我們已經沒有了選擇權沒有接受到良好的設計的服務我們的安全本來就不存在嘛所以在於這個我們專注於這個違規取締還有超速區間測速你看這幾年來我們的交通事故量有降低嗎我們的傷亡有減少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
8492.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
8519.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
有沒有 沒有嘛 為什麼我們不用看這些枝端末節什麼第幾條可以選 第幾條不可以這個檢舉我跟你講啦 我們去檢舉的時候還要拿個筆記型電腦先查說它是違規是第幾條嗎我們以後報警跟報火災一樣小火 幾級火災我們才可以報警嗎是這樣嗎 這個公民參與的我們整個社會的 這個公民社會的造成本來我們大家熱衷於在這個交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
8521.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
8545.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
處理的這些熱心民眾他要怎麼來自處 他怎麼來檢舉 他怎麼來舉法這一點我覺得非常之不妥再來對於應該不以事後舉法為主要的目的現在行政機關把這些東西都給民間去網內互打我們這個檢舉那個 這個檢舉那個但是實際上大家都是共同用戶人 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
8547.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
8563.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
在這個專門這個檢舉的部分我們希望要以警務人員現場的巡邏還有交通警務人員執行人員做現場的舉發因為最重要我們交通不是要拿錢我覺得政府用這個取錢的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
8564.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
8564.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
修法公聽會：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
8582.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
8582.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
立法院第11屆第1會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
8602.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
8624.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
去借駕照來抵押所以我們把它廢掉現在這個祭典沒有抓到人我一樣可以再叫別人來代替我去買那個點數他來當我人頭那這個祭典有什麼效果所以他把這個行政的責任呢完全丟給了民間對不對你自己去舉發然後要錄影要錄三分鐘錄三分鐘早就被人家打了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
8624.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
8625.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
執業駕駛 不怕罰錢 怕記點 一般駕駛人 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
8648.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
8648.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
發言委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
8661.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
8677.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以我們這個行車記錄器跟手機的拍照不應該成為我們裁罰的基準我們連區間測數的器材怎麼都要經過官方認證才能來做裁罰的能夠裁罰的一定是官方的器材 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
8678.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
8694.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們明天用的東西不是拿來送給警方 讓他來做裁罰的工具他們就在裡面收單 製單 然後投票把這個選舉票送給民眾這一點我們覺得非常的不好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
8695.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8713.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
應該是呢 我們要保障我們的行車記錄器呢是在有事故發生的時候 證明我們有什麼損傷而不是拿來到處亂拍一切的東西都是行政單位 警務 內政部 交通部要負起他行政的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8713.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8739.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
而不應該把這個檢舉現在這個好像是我們是民眾的錯應該民眾來負擔交通的事故的問題這個千萬不可用這樣的心態來做處理我報告這樣第一階段的發言完畢 謝謝好 謝謝現在請洪森漢委員發言下一位請行人臨時網推動聯盟陳凱琳理事長準備陳凱琳理事長發言完畢之後我們休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8743.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8765.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
主席好今天是有關我們大家條例是不是要修正的公聽會當然我們現在看到這個修法的預告其實有引發了不論是駕駛者或者是我們民間路權團體的很多的討論今天我大概就針對兩個部分想要針對交通部來提出一些提醒跟要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8767.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8795.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那過去我們其實在道交條例裡面放入民眾檢舉的機制或擴大民眾檢舉的機制其實最重要的原因其實是因為當時大家意識到我們執法的警力不足這是當時很重要的原因但當我們今天發現可能這個民眾檢舉機制的擴張也帶來了一些不必要的焦慮不必要的負面的效應也許真的有那衍生了一些其他的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8796.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8817.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那北方說我看到交通部也說警察人力不足以負荷檢舉案件的處理那我們現在就想要再大幅的限縮這個民眾檢舉機制的適用但我覺得這個每個管理的方法的優缺點我認為都可以討論也不是不能夠修改但我還是想問一個最核心的問題就是當初我們納入民眾檢舉機制時當時的那個警力不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8820.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8828.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
指法能量不足的那個問題接下來交通部跟我們內政部跟我們警政署打算怎麼來去處理跟面對這個問題因為這個問題還是存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8830.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8851.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那現在今天面對交通執法端的問題不管是民眾檢舉或警察的執法我都覺得這是可以理性評估跟理性討論的那併成所有方案的優點跟缺點但在目前交通部的整個的版本跟相關的配套裡面我還是說需要是回應那警力執法不足的問題你們打算怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8853.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8863.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這個事情不能丟著不放所以如果你們不打算就像接下來可能要限縮祭典的狀況的話那你們會打算不要說提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8865.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8866.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
第二點在這次道交條例調整不計點的項目裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8892.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8917.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那哪些是現在職業駕駛在交通工程不完善的狀況下會面對的交通困境我覺得這些困境是可以減少使用記點的方式來影響我們職業駕駛的生計的這部分我覺得我是同意的但哪一些駕駛者其實沒有這樣的需求但若有這樣子的行為樣態其實對我們的交通安全和交通空間的分配會有很大影響的 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8918.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8946.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
這個事情我覺得交通部必須更細膩的來討論我這邊舉個例子像這一次我們討論到不依順行方向臨時停車其實簡單的說就是逆向停車我相信其實現在恐怕沒有什麼駕駛會來說我逆向但我想要不記點因為逆向真的是一件蠻嚴重的事情其實對於交通的危害秩序的危害是很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8946.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8963.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
但現在是因為他的罰環在1200以下所以我們現在就一刀切說他不需記點可是我們都知道這個樣態你說逆向停車這個我認為恐怕很少駕駛會真的去犯到這一條對不對而且也不會故意也很難不小心對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8964.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8993.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
可是這一條現在我們說因為1200以下所以不需祭典那我認為這個部分像這個項目我覺得是有點問題的這是可以討論的另外或者是大家之前這段時間也討論到保障身上者的權益跟需求所以身心障礙專用停車違規停車的部分其實我覺得也不應該被放在這一次可免於祭典的範圍內這當然是對我們身上者權益的保護所以綜合來說其實我們這次列出了所謂的10個項目裡面我覺得每一項可以細緻的去看待 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8993.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
9021.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
也許有一些真的是因為我們交通工程設計的不當其實我們的這個駕駛真的蠻難去避免的或蠻難去避那我覺得這部分是可以討論的可是就像我剛舉例的這兩項那我們現在所有一併因為那一刀切都不用記點了這也蠻奇怪的所以我自己是希望說交通部在這一次修法以罰還1200做一刀切的這個標準下其實我覺得這個好像不是一個很細膩的處理的方法來去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
9022.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
9032.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
交通行為裡面各方的意見跟樣態所產生的影響那這是我期待說等下到時候道交條例進到文匯修訂的時候每一個項目我們是可以來仔細的再來看待 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
9033.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
9034.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
還有沒有再修正的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
9056.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
9083.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
好 謝謝現在請行人臨時網推動聯盟陳凱琳理事長來做說明在陳理事長說明之前交通部王國采部長在相關的交通系統的安全掌握狀況有做初步處理之後也立即趕到我們公聽會的現場等一下向各位做個說明陳理事長發言完畢之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
9085.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
9112.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們會請王國采部長來做相關的一個初步的報告但是王國采王部長報告完了之後我認為他還是要去掌握全國目前的這些交通系統的安全狀況這是最重要在目前最重要的一個狀況那陳英博次長跟主導修法的這個狀況掌握林福山次長也會在這邊向各位來做個說明謝謝陳理事長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
9116.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
9117.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
陳理事長不好意思不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
9136.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
9153.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
好 我們時間從頭開始好 非常感謝那我們今天看到這個行政院通過這次的修法草案有10項的違規不開放民眾檢舉祭典我們當然也理解到職業駕駛必定有他們的需求他們會在道路工程改善以前會需要有一些聆聽的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
9154.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
9174.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
但是我們看到其中有一些項目我們覺得非常的匪夷所思第一個 機車騎士有沒有戴安全帽第二個 機車騎士手持電話第三個 汽機車手持香煙開車騎車抽煙這真的是職業駕駛的需求嗎我們是非常不認同那再接下來到所謂這個臨停跟違停的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
9175.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
9199.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
林婷在路側的紅線上本身就已經不開放檢舉了那我們現在又再去開放包括說人行道、閒人穿越道、交叉路口、公車站以及並排的林婷這些東西本來就會造成比較危險的交通事故以及會去侵害到無論是我們今天有到道場的身障朋友或是其他老人家推娃娃車的人在 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
9201.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
9228.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
現在人行道已經非常的不足我們看到各地各個地方的比例甚至可以不到50%的道路有人行道的情況下這個路側這人行道行人穿越道再去開放說違停不能夠檢舉也不會去做祭典來淘汰不適應的駕駛那我們最弱勢的用路人要怎麼安全的走在路上當然審計是非常重要但是不應該是用壓迫其他的更弱勢的用路人的方式來爭取來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
9230.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
9244.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我們認為說一定是在檢舉制度 包含說前面司長提到說這次主要的問題是跟拍檢舉 是不時呈報的架勢 是工程道路要改善 那請問這10項 哪一項可以改善這些問題根本就沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
9246.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
9259.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
檢舉制度一定是可以再去調整的可以去優化一些實際上的這個技術面去解決跟拍檢舉這些的問題而不是去讓因為檢舉的數量太多那我們來檢舉檢舉量而不是去檢舉違規量才對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
9264.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
9285.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
三萬多的檢舉量很多那我們是不是應該讓違規人數下降而不是說那我們就不要檢舉了就讓他們繼續違規可是我們不要去讓警務人員處理這些問題這個完全是一個錯誤的邏輯可能那職業駕駛的需求在去年11月交通部這邊也已經有修法將路測的這個上下課改為不予祭典 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
9285.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
9307.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
並且在當時11月的時候也有提出並排停車的部分本來要公告也開放不祭典但是後來因為交通部也知道說並排停車對交通危害重大所以也發文改為不開放那這次不僅又決定開放甚至是擴大開放到連檢舉都不行那並排停到底是危險還是不危險為什麼短短不到半年可以改來改去改了三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
9309.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
9336.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
請問並排林婷她對交通有危險程度交通部到底有沒有去評估我們認為如果要提出這樣子的修法案這十項各項對於交通事故的危害程度各項每年造成事故的數據報告是不是應該要提出來那我們在過去跟交通部所知的過程中也一直都沒有取得資料我們修法部應該是憑感覺感覺一千兩百元好像就不影不影響交通不影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
9337.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
9363.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這個安全我們應該來看科學數據但是我們到現在都沒有看到交通部這邊有提出什麼實務的數據來那第二個實務的數據面交通部說因為這個被影響到的職業價值很多所以調控數量太多了應付不來那我們也想知道實際上的數據往年的調控數到底是多少我們昨天終於看到資料相關的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
9365.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
9388.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
去年的調控總數是50470件111年的調控總數是69620件也就是去年整整下降了19000件調控數是下降的職業駕駛的調控人數也從3000件降到2000件也就是說在檢舉跟祭典制度變得更加嚴厲之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
9391.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
9411.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
馬路上面會去違規的吊客跟職業駕駛都有去新生警惕那它是一個很好的成果為什麼會有這種什麼吊客數變得很多應付不來的結論數據是從哪裡來的這些數據本來就掌握在交通部手上為什麼今天可以這樣子去製造一個根本就不存在的議題出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
9412.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
9440.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們不能夠理解在職業駕駛的需求除了講到前面紅線的部分已經不得檢舉也有本來就已經有違罪不罰的相關法條例如說在這個處理細則第12條之5規定在上下課 汽車上下課上下或有臨時停車的情形沒有妨礙到人車通行可以勸導代替舉發以及剛才的這個曾秘書長提到在接一些行動不便的老人家的時候會領停超過3分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
9441.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
9451.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
本來就有7歲以下及行動不便在路側上下課不受零停3分鐘的限制這些法規本來就有 違規本來就已經不舉發了我們認為不應該再擴大這些問題 去讓馬路上的安全問題變得更危險 謝謝好 謝謝現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
9462.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
9481.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
請王國才部長來做報告及說明那王部長報告完畢之後我們休息10分鐘那王部長也必須要繼續趕回去掌握全國交通系統的安全狀況因為餘震也不斷這個部長的責任也非常重大來請部長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
9488.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
9503.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
各位委員還有現場很多專家團體很謝謝你們的這個參與因為剛剛的確我們現在比較嚴重是花東的鐵公路都中斷了所以剛剛還在吊那個包台北快輪跟明天的新台馬輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
9504.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
9534.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
所以也花一些時間現在都在清查每一段有沒有人在那邊現在是整個發動是很危險所以待會可能要過去一下但是我在這邊還是要跟主席還有各位委員還有各位路前團體還有我們駕駛團體來談來做一個報告就是說去年大概這個時候事實上立法院當時在審查這個處罰條例當時是這個民眾檢舉是因為當時的婚委是新任地域 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
9535.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
9559.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以我想跟大家報告我們改善行人這件事情到現在為止包括我們各種這種指引還有包括我們永續提升人行安全計畫400億從113到116這個都在進行那另外內政部的這個行人交通安全設施條例這是跟我們配套的也就是說如果就行人的入權的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
9561.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
9561.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
修法公聽會： |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
9582.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
9582.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
9602.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
9630.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
行人入選的部分也是同樣就是我們最重要一件事在進行但是在去年在修法這個時候在修法的時候民眾檢舉項目的46項到59項增加13項然後我們的祭典項目從25項增加到55項而且當時大家覺得用一個執法做一個短期的交易大家是認可的但這件事情做了以後事實上今天在場除了這個職業駕駛民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
9632.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
9660.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
各種反應也都一直到這個交通部來就是影響他的生活比如接送小孩路邊時是要買個東西找不到可以都是紅線找不到可以停的地方所以他勢必違規所以在這種狀況下的確在去年這時候我們大家都說好像我退讓的確當時是這樣的氛圍但是實施以後花協這樣的民怨非常的深 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
9662.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
9662.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
修法公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
9674.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
9692.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
如果民眾不檢舉 那是不是就不處罰 也不會 因為你現在用110或是你用APP 有一個叫110的視訊報案的APP 你都用這個APP是直接看到有一個違規停車在比如10公尺的地方 你還是可以報案警察來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
9693.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9715.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那我跟大家報告就是說警察過去在處理比如說他看到的這些違規情形事實上他本身也不是說看到一定開罰他有的會驅離他覺得說趕快走但是如果在民眾檢疫這一塊就完全不在這是完全不在所以我們的想法就是說在所有剛剛談到的我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9716.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9742.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
四百億的經費還有包括內政部的行政交通設施條例這個就是往一個人本交通來做建設繼續做可是這個沒有做好以前的很多的相關的違規有些是環境造成的尤其很多是所謂靜態的停車的部分所以我們是希望說這個部分在這些還沒有做完以前能夠給大家一個時間要不然他們真的接送小孩什麼買早餐都變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9743.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9770.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
老亂他的生活那職業價值就是一直被祭奠所以我們大概有這樣的一個狀況那整個這個今天報告的這十項我覺得真的都可以討論我並不是那當時為什麼用1200元我們應該市長有報告嘛在處罰條例過去這一個所謂的這些我們裁判細則當時有一些叫做可以欠到不宜舉花的部分也是用1200元去訂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9772.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9801.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那大家想說那去年有部分的修改今年怎麼又變成有這樣的一個規定因為去年是非常很亂的時候我們用那種局部的這個來改善今年我們希望用一個比較有系統性的所以用違罪這個觀念來作為改善這樣的話這個改善以後就會跟這個修法就會把去年的東西全部拿回來變成一個我們的系統性的修法就是比較違罪的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9802.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9802.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9815.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9843.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那當然就是說剛才有提到很多比如說機車的部分或是身輕障礙這個專用車的部分我想這部分都可以討論因為我如果一個系統性的修法我由交通部先先把什麼先砍掉也是爭議很大沒辦法討論所以我想說10點這10項的這個修法這個修理以後我們配合包括這個違規紀點來這個來處理我想說今天也聽大家的意見那 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9844.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9871.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
如果大家有一些共識我們願意來做一些調整我想說有很多立法院都有提到有一些項目他覺得比較嚴重那我想這部分就要有共識大家比如說大家所提的這些並排臨時停車並排停車是花2400臨時停車停一下子會在1200內但是並排停車是可以減給如果他停在那裡是可以減給也可以花款的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9872.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9872.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9886.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9886.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9903.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9918.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們願意接受大家的指正來做一些調整謝謝好部長做初步的報告及說明那部長還是要立即趕回去掌握全國交通系統的安全狀況那我們現在休息我們11點半11點30分繼續開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
10767.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
10774.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
繼續開會現在請交通安全協會林志玄副理事長發言廖謙祥委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
10785.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
10808.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
現場長官還有各位來賓大家好我是台灣交通安全協會副理事長林志學那今天這個修法呢我第一個非常要跟大家稍微回顧一下歷史就是說我們在這個執法的這個歷史一開始啊一開始我小時候爸爸媽媽教我的是那個路邊停車你不可以隨便亂停你隨便亂停干擾到車流人家萬一撞上來發生什麼事情的時候你這個停車的人要負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
10809.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
10824.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
後來我越長越大開始可以自己取得駕照之後規則就變了開始路邊停車的人被警察抓了之後民意代表可能會去警察局把警察或是把局長抓出來拉整一下怎麼就改變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
10826.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
10849.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
久了之後路邊的這些干擾就沒有辦法再處理沒有辦法處理之後現在大家逼得不走檢舉這條路走檢舉這條路的時候它變成可以突破警方執法上面的一些選擇開始又可以回歸我們可以去處理路側干擾的問題回到今天我們又開始對這些路側干擾又回到不能檢舉的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
10853.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
10869.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那這樣子這是從歷史的尺度啦我剛剛講的這個歷史的尺度不是3年5年可能是橫跨了10年到20年的尺度在這個路徹干擾的執法這件事情上面它就像鐘擺這樣擺過來擺過去擺過來擺過去擺過來到這邊的時候叫做危險擺過來到這邊的時候叫做罰單老百姓得到的東西就是包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
10878.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
10893.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
所有從事這個職業駕駛 這也是屬於老百姓民眾的一環大家得到的東西就始終只有兩種一種叫做危險 一種叫做罰單服務有沒有做改善 沒有太多的改善這樣子的鐘擺 沒有終點 也找不到答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
10895.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
10898.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這個路側干擾我們去看我們看這個路側干擾在這裡我們看這個道路在這裡路側干擾在這裡我們看兩邊的環境到底是什麼通常會發生這樣子有很大的問題民眾的矛盾的地方他的路側建築物通常 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
10911.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
10937.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
要把就是很常見的透天錯 車不知道停哪裡再來就是很典型的 台灣典型的布燈公寓那種沒有內部停車位也沒有電梯的那種布燈公寓在這樣子的區域之下它可能受限於早期的都市計畫的限制或者說早期的建築技術規範它沒有很好的去把停車位留設所以在這邊造成很多民眾的矛盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
10938.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
10954.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那尤其在這個地方如果有經營商業 商業的停車空間他也沒有內部化到最後在這樣的環境裡面 大家都找不到答案那這個答案是不是永遠要在執法這邊打轉 在這邊轉你也轉不出答案因為最後民眾的需求 各行各業的需求得不到一個滿足最近我們參加了國土署辦的人本交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
10961.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
10987.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
人本規劃師和活動我們編寫那個教材我們才把這些東西全部一起寫進去重點是我們必須要改善我們的道路環境都市設計這樣才有辦法同時給道路上所有的用路人不管是職業駕駛或者說身體方便不方便的人還有一般的用路人同時把構造對於各式各樣的用路人提供充分安全的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
10988.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
11006.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那去年前年很有幸跟臺北市趙宇翔議員合作我們去修改了這個四大路的設計在那個時候一開始針對這些路側停車干擾的問題第一開始提出來的策略也是在那邊調調紅線、調黃線還有這個調這個10公尺的這個以前都調過也是一樣鐘擺擺過來擺過去這邊擺回來下一次就會擺回去再調它還是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
11018.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
11039.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這要怎麼處理 這個東西要畫原始圖書處理 路口的原始要curb extension來處理如果不能停車的地方 會影響市區的地方 那就是物理上做到完全沒有辦法停停了絕對就是干擾車流 車廂無法通行停都沒有辦法停 就不用考慮它到底是紅線還是黃線 因為物理上它就是不可以停不可以停的地方就是物理性的不可以停 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
11040.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
11051.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
不是說畫了一條紅線結果它好像一個空間可以停那就還是會有人停停了之後警察又陷入了到底是要趕還是不要趕趕了之後是不是又會被民代叫出來罵然後兩邊在那邊矛盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
11054.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
11083.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
如果是依照這種原始圖書在配停車彎的方法科學上、技術上、工程技術上絕對有辦法算到以客觀標準算到安全、適具確保的原始圖書的尺寸同時加以入廁的停車空間最大化我有講錯老師在這裡隨時可以吐槽這個是可以算得出來可以用客觀標準算得出來不會讓任何人吃虧但是也會在安全可及的極限之下把空間利用做到最大化我的第一次發言就到這裡為止謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
11084.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
11095.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
好 謝謝現在請廖先祥委員發言下一位黃鹿漁民行人路權促進會陳法軍代表請準備好 謝謝主席 各位好朋友如果在我們的交通環境中 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
11109.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
11114.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
沒有辦法對違規的行為來給他一些苛責的話那相對的會受到傷害的就是那些守法的我們的一般的用路人 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
11125.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
11148.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那這一次的修法其實身為民意代表我們在長期間來我們民意代表一定都收到許多不同的意見包括很多人會說為什麼我晚上晚上回個家停在巷弄裡面那停個車而已那結果就被檢舉達人檢舉了好一段時間然後一次就收到很多張的罰單收到六七張一次十多張的罰單這樣子的情況很常見我們也常常收到這樣子的一個陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
11154.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
11177.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
所以說在這次交通部的修法的意見裡面他說我們有說最主要的原因是因為有一個很大的原因是因為有特定的檢舉達人他針對特定的車輛或是他對於維護交通規制序他有很大的一個報復那每一個人他有很大的一個檢舉量 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
11178.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
11206.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那在我們在交通部已經遭到這樣的情況下為什麼我們不是針對這樣的情況去改善而是持續的去針對我們違規開放民眾檢舉的項目不斷的去限縮其實在去年的時候我們交通違規檢舉限縮過後一般的紅黃線的林庭已經不能檢舉了許多的樣態已經沒有辦法檢舉了這一次被特別拿出來的是人行道 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
11207.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
11225.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
是入口10公尺相對起來比較危險的一些違規的一些樣態那我們要再把這些拿掉交通部說警察單位可以馬上的來協助做取締我那一天到內政委員會請教一下我們部長請教內政部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
11229.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
11249.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
問他說部長你期待說民眾如果說在人行道上面檢舉維庭你期待警方多久以內會到我問了四五次部長沒有辦法回答這個問題他不敢講連期待都不敢講我不是要求他幾分鐘以內要到而是問部長你期待同仁多久時間內可以來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
11250.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
11251.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
修法公聽會： |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
11264.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
11281.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
在警方方便沒有辦法處理的時候那民眾沒辦法檢舉的時候這樣子的一個樣態只會越來越大那我認為交通部在這一次做檢舉做檢討的時候不是沒有辦法我們不是不接受做一些改變而是 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
11283.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
11302.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我們交通部有沒有提出相當多一些客觀的一些數據給我們所有的民間團體知道剛剛有民間團體說昨天才收到資料說在去年的時候就是因為扣點被調到的人數是5萬人那110年是6萬5111年是6萬9那到了112年就剛剛我講的5萬其實是持續的在下降的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
11311.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
11331.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
違規祭典這件事情而被調召的民眾其實數量是下降的那我們來看一下被祭典的點數我不知道有沒有民間團體拿到這樣的資料在112年6月到修法前被檢舉祭典的最大項目大家知道是什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
11334.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
11350.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
不是臨時停車不是一般紅黃線停車最大向的是一般道路的草屬就是說在這麼多大家被報怨被祭典的情況下最多的居然是不是我們今天被討論到的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
11352.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
11381.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
我們在檢討駕駛人的這個職業駕駛的權益的時候我們居然是沒有檢討到最大項的一般道路超速去年總共被記了120萬點最大項沒被檢討到而我們反而去檢討到了我們認為比較違規的這個輪行道跟入口10公尺那我們有沒有曾經這個討論過我們的中華民國在道路上面的限速是不是有提供一個合理的限速我認為限速都非常不合理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
11381.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
11409.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那 這個我個人對這次的 因為時間不多我對這次的立法 修法的我的立場我可以在這邊很表明祭典這件事情 確實被民眾檢舉 被祭典確實會很不爽 確實會很不高興為了我們民眾有這個權利來決定這個兩百萬會被祭典我同意在只有警方可以 可以去做執行祭典這件行為這就是公權力 必須要是公家機關才能夠做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
11410.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
11434.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那一般的違規的檢舉我真的呼籲違規的樣態的型態真的不要再限縮因為去年已經限縮過很大的一次了那我們交通的安全不能再退縮以上是我個人的意見謝謝現在請環路移民行人入權促進會的代表陳法軍代表發言下一位請台灣安全駕駛監督聯盟林美羅理事長準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
11439.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
11456.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
委員 各位與會先進 大家好那 協會在這邊有一個想法叫做國家有一個義務叫保護義務它附有一個保護人民免受第三人跟自然力侵害的義務但是在國家無法保護人民的時候人民應該要有一個自力救濟的手段 檢舉只是其中一種方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
11456.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
11484.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
如果國家不當限縮檢舉的話你可能會有一個叫不足的禁止的問題那OK以下幾點報告第一個一刀切的問題的話我們認為是無法達到這個保護就是駕駛人的還有保護用路人的目的那我們從整個問題來講停車問題跟其他項目這兩種被限縮的問題情況裡面它跟整體交通秩序的維護還有確保個別用路人的安全是有關的可是你是直接切一個1200這個完全不符合比例原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
11486.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
11511.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那應該要針對個別條文去討論 有意義的拿出來講 沒有意義的 跟交通安全有關的 不要直接切掉好 再來 修法要依據客觀事實 然後我們認為 修法這件事情 有更多客觀數據我相信交通部那邊有很多的數據 很多的資料可以佐證 因為畢竟現在 我們政府很要求數據這件事情那可是如果你不拿這些數據拿出來使用的話 它就是數字 它沒有用 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
11512.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
11532.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
所以麻煩請交通部、警政署或是其他相關部門你在制定這些檢體項目的要件以及它的執法判準、績效等這些過程說明並且制定清楚好 再來 罰環跟祭典目的並不相同並沒有一事不二法這件事情第一個 我們的法院實務見解認為那個罰環是針對你違反行政義務的處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
11537.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
11553.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那這一點是針對你的危險性的評估這兩個本來就是不一樣的事情目的就不一樣然後再加上行政法法本來就規定可以同時處罰那在這邊我認為我們協會認為這個東西你應該是要並行的你可以討論但你不能把它撤掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
11555.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
11578.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
好 再來檢舉制度 檢舉制度是就如同前言講的國家保護義務不周不救手段那它不是對駕駛者的工作權或者是他的移動自由的限制那憲法第15條有講人民的生存權工作權財產權應與保障第23條有講說在避免妨礙他人自由避免緊急違法案防止妨礙他人自由維持社會秩序或政經功利所必要者外不得已法律限制所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
11579.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
11590.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
在4-584號就講到說人民的工作權是受到保障的職業自由也是受到保障但是你們的這些在符合第23條的規定的話可以用法律或法律授權的規定去限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
11591.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
11615.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那駕駛執照的話本來就是一個國家發給你一個東西叫做我遵循你駕駛你有合格資格你有足夠能力去駕駛車輛的在4.16就講說我們這些東西這些駕車的自由包含職業駕駛們包含一般人你們這些駕車自由本來就應該要被受到限制而且你要遵守的駕駛公義在職業駕駛上面可能有更高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
11616.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
11637.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們認為國家對這些工作權給予適當限制不是不行可是你在限制的時候你應該是要兼顧只要回到前面的國家保護義務你沒有道路設計你沒有那些所謂的祭典處罰的明確要件的時候你就這樣子限制下去的話其實並不是一個好的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
11641.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
11670.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
對比言之我們檢舉的這個國家保護義務不得手段就是它是在補足執法能量的不足我們剛剛前面有講到警政署這麼多我剛剛才收到反應這麼多這麼多警政署警察基層警察他根本沒有辦法過來開單他在線上警網巡邏的時間就已經佔掉他大部分的時間了你要叫他在10分鐘之內過來開單好像有困難而且甚至實際上也確實是如此真的非常困難一個小時兩個小時都看不見人就繼續放在那邊導致危害繼續擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
11672.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
11679.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那你透過檢舉你事後去追溯去給他一個處罰去讓他有警惕的效果的話這個 並不是不允許的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
11681.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
11707.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
最後一個 就算真的檢舉制度有問題需要調整那你也不是去排擠弱勢用路人的用路權利你有一個檢舉的手段可以去保護自我比如像身障者 比如像老年人 比如像幼童這些人他們的生命身體健康的完整性跟職業駕駛的工作權或是一般駕駛的用路權益的話我想在這邊各位委員以及各位長官你們都有一定的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
11708.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
11723.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
最後結論國家服務保護義務的話你應該要制定完善的配套措施跟教育宣導這個一直都是國家保護義務要做的你要避免第三人跟自然力的侵害你不是將這些駕駛的注意義務粗暴的轉嫁給弱勢用人去承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
11724.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
11745.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
好 我們建議 協會建議可以根據道交七支一條開放檢舉的項目會同交通部會同警政署還有或者是其他的相關部會去制定行政規則的方式寫明各個違規構成的要件在何種情況之下會裁罰讓職業駕駛 讓一般駕駛都可以知道說什麼情況會被裁罰什麼樣的情況是不允許的好 謝謝 我報告到此結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
11746.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
11758.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
好 謝謝現在請臺灣安全駕駛監督聯盟林美羅理事長發言下一位請消費者文教基金會交通委員會召集人李克聰博士準備謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
11772.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
11794.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
各位與會的先進大家好我是臺灣安全駕駛監督聯盟理事長林美濃首先我要講一個故事其實這從這將近兩個禮拜的時間我的心裡面一直是在哭泣的大家所熟知的鄭華娟知名的歌手跟作家死了 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
11798.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
11817.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那麼我跟他的認識直接的接觸是去年開始因為鄭華娟的妹妹在2022年的10月她騎著U-Bike被榮總的一部交通車左轉違規撞死了 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
11819.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
11846.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
鄭華娟為她妹妹這個不幸一直一直無法忘懷雖然她旅居德國那當我在去年跟她聯繫上之後我們做了很多的關懷可是我實在是沒有辦法安慰她於萬一那麼去年的下半年一審判決出來之後我才比較清楚她的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
11847.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
11873.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
因為這個職業駕駛的公司是沒有辦法究責的那第二個是他的妹妹未婚未生沒有直系血親再世所以損害賠償也沒有辦法訴求鄭華娟覺得她妹妹遭遇這樣的不幸宛如甚至不如一隻螻蟻 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
11875.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
11895.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這是讓我非常傷心的那麼我常常警惕我也不斷的說一個人的死亡是悲劇一百個人的死亡一千個人的死亡是數字這是在第二次世界大戰留下來的一句名言天災地變人禍我們請問現在我國 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
11902.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
11923.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
已經連續兩年交通死亡超過三千人這是天災地變還是人禍我們剛剛對早上發生的地震都非常非常有感那為什麼對這樣的交通死亡是無感呢我在這裡還是要強調人命是一個一個搶救回來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
11929.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
11955.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我們的政府要下降這個3000人交通死亡的這個人數是要一條人命一條人命搶救回來的那麼現在竟然想要對去年以來去年年中以來的這些這個緊要措施與鬆綁我真的覺得對這樣的事情非常的悲觀我想問 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
11958.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
11978.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
520之後如果我們今年交通死亡人數沒辦法比去年比前年降低5%我們今年的交通死亡受傷人數沒辦法比去年前年降低10%這樣的政治責任誰要扛民怨何在3000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
11985.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
12013.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
去年三千人 前年三千人 死亡的人就沒有民怨嗎死亡的三千人 何止三千個家庭 六千個家庭 九千個家庭結果這些死亡的人沒有選票嗎那留下來的家屬 萬天萬地 萬國家萬社會啦他怨不到那個傷害他的人肇事者啦 因為那樣的人離他太遠了 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
12015.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
12017.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
所以我在這裡還是要強調違規祭典我們絕對不能退讓中部這個駕訓駕照及駕駛管理檢討報告花費將近600萬元的研究費請你提出這個整個駕照考照管理的2.0改善計畫給我們給全民 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
12043.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
12047.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
再來談違規祭典要調整的問題這是我的一個強調我們從去年只要遇到交通部就不斷的提不斷的提到現在回應都是無關痛癢的我國的這個駕照的考照跟管理才是源頭在沒有處理之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
12069.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
12073.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
違規就是違規違規沒有不祭典的餘地以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
12079.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
12100.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
謝謝現在請消費者文教基金會交通委員會的召集人李克聰博士發言下一位請臺灣障礙者權益促進會劉宇記副秘書長準備劉副秘書長等一下就在座位發言就可以攝影機我們相關的攝影機也會對著你以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
12106.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
12106.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
好沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
12119.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
12148.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
好 謝謝主席各位先請大家今天已經快要到中午了大家午安我想時間很有限大家可以參考我的書面資料跟我現在放的這個簡報資料我們看下一頁我想大家都了解我們這次修法就是希望能夠平衡我們的交通安全跟我們的民怨但是我們必須要理解汽車使用這麼普遍但是我們的交通工程沒有辦法滿足我們的需求所以我相信每一個人都有違規的經驗所以交通違規成為日常 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
12148.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
12173.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
他非常嚴重影響我們的交通秩序跟安全那如果我們的違規如果執法的警力又不足他會造成一個惡性循環違規多事故也會變多所以我們應該要加強執法當初警力不足我們才開放民眾檢舉甚至我們採用科技的執法那但是我們開放民眾檢舉呢產生了一些對立惡性循環的現象所以民怨就增多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
12174.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
12175.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
12197.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
12209.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
一刀切的缺點就是有的違規會影響到安全 有的不太會我們怎麼樣一刀切來定義它的違規是否影響我們的交通安全 非常困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
12211.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
12235.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
有專家曾經開過一次討論會他建議用違規的頻率、事故的嚴重度跟可控性來定義他的違罪其實我們不要講違罪,應該就是輕微的違規輕微違規我們都希望他是先勸導再取締這個用意是很好的但是我們現在一刀切的情況下有些違規停車他會嚴重影響交通安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
12236.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
12261.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
有些還好如果在社區裡面違規停車可是我們民眾檢舉很多都在社區裡面不太影響交通影響的情況下他取締他的違規停車他的用意可能就被扭曲了但是我們現在希望很快的改交通環境但是交通環境的改善需要時間但是在還沒有改善之前如果按照這樣子的修法的話交通安全堪慮這是我們大家都 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
12262.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
12280.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
都了解的部分所以我也建議在沒有釐清問題之前我們政府應該在平息之後再來做研議我們下一頁我們來看一下今天的討論大綱檢舉交通違規項目問題分析的影響我們一刀切剛剛我特別講有另外一個更好的選擇第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
12281.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
12287.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
經濟民眾檢舉採證更完整有利判定是否影響交通安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
12312.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
12338.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
點數的部分 項目跟執行方式的檢討我們建議 如果是事故危險高的違規項目還應該要記違規的點數然後呢 我們定期 它有一個好處我們可以定期去提醒違規的人他的點數已經進展到什麼階段了 他應該去做調適然後呢 我剛剛特別講SOP嘛但SOP的話呢 我們只要把規範定得清楚檢舉的規則跟我們判定的原則 原理開端的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
12339.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
12367.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我們稍微想想看如果按照現在的修法當場舉法才能祭奠我們有幾項非常重要的違規是非常重要影響到我們交通安全的嚴重超速闖紅燈跟逼車這些都很難當場去做取締他們都必須要透過我們的檢舉甚至我們的科技執法來進行相關的取締如果這樣子的話將來這些違規我相信一定是會越來越多影響交通安全也會越來越嚴重好 我們看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
12368.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
12392.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
公程的部分我們希望盡快地用需求跟問題導向來做改善如果會影響交通安全的點我們就用紅線如果不影響我們就是黃線但是它只能臨停三分鐘我們希望它是常態的執法避免大家常態性的去做違規那機車的路線我們都相信嘛機車現在是工區它有點失調我們必須要盡早去改善機車的行駛的問題我們看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
12393.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
12420.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
教育監理我特別講宣導教育很重要我們現在工程改善前我們要去宣導它的危險在哪裡在我們的修法前後對交通違規的風險是什麼你違規可能會被開單我們也要去做這個很好的宣導教育監理的部分剛剛特別講有冒名頂替或者是黃牛我們可以去讓車主必須要登記常態的駕駛人如果還不夠我們再透過這個問題再來做改善我們看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
12420.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
12444.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
好 最後的執法的部分我們還是希望能夠回到地方政府的常態性的執法我們有交通助理人員但是交通助理人員的建設跟執行我們必須要規範得非常清楚讓他可以協助我們的執法然後我們希望能夠先宣導提醒再做取締人性化的執法方式我們基本上就會形成一個良性循環有效的改善我們的交通安全問題跟民怨好 以上的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
12447.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
12462.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
謝謝李克聰博士接下來我們請臺灣障礙者權益促進會劉雨季副秘書長發言下一位請下一代學生行人入權聯盟的總召王敬謙總召發言請做準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
12465.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
12491.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
大家好臺灣障礙者權益促進會我們一直是關心身心障礙者的所有相關的權益這邊也謝謝今天大家其實都常常提到身心障礙我這樣聽下來我覺得我們的這個角色有點尷尬因為我們的確是用路人的一個重要關係人但是有的時候又不小心變成一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
12491.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
12519.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
間接導致交通違規的一個人所以我這邊其實希望就是說各個委員或各位職業價值夥伴其實我們沒有要去做一些什麼對立但是我們的確身心障礙在許多的狀況下的確是用路的弱勢中的弱勢因為為什麼我們的人行環境人行空間的 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
12520.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
12521.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
12538.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
12557.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
的一個通行的時候有的時候就是會面臨到說有一些人他就是臨時臨停他想要買一個早餐買一個什麼東西或者是一些貨運業者或者是美食外送 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
12557.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
12572.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
他就給你停在我唯一的那個道路上就可能大家停在斜坡上等等的那就導致了我可能輪椅使用者就被卡在那邊可能也不知道10分鐘甚至半小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
12573.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
12596.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那如果這樣的一個違規沒辦法檢舉的話我覺得其實對我們身心障礙者或者是我覺得也不要講身心障礙者就是對於行動不便者就是也有可能是中途受傷的人或是推娃娃車的各項的行人其實都會是非常的生活非常的不方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
12597.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
12612.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
所以我覺得這邊應該要去在修法的時候要好好去規劃說到底有哪一些真的是民眾舉發那我們舉發也不是為了要報復什麼但是我們的確就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
12613.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
12633.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
被擋住了那我們就用這個舉發那到底記不記點這個大家可以去做一些討論但是我們真的是希望說要讓JAS知道說這個地方是要保留好一個無障礙空間不應該你在這邊臨庭所以其實在這個狀態下 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
12635.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
12662.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我們就必須要有一個民眾檢舉的一個機制這已經是我們最後的手段了那至於要不要記一點就真的再說然後再來我們也常常面臨到就是說例如說那個我們現在可能在臺北市的狀況在北部的狀況比較好現在有地地板公車 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
12662.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
12673.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
然後政府也鼓勵說身心障礙者要多多的出來所以會有什麼悠遊卡的點數等等的我們現在也發現到說其實因為很多的違規臨停的狀況導致公車很難靠近來公車停靠站 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
12685.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
12710.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這個公車停靠站不是那種在道路上的那種公車專用道而是那種在行人道上的那這種在行人道上的他導致的就又會變成駕駛公車司機他為了要趕時間然後他又要協助障礙者上車那也導致了雙方又有一些對立所以因此這一堆的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
12711.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
12733.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
希望說可以有一些逐步討論的空間真的不要去一刀切又特別是像那個身心障礙的停車位真的身心障礙停車位我們找就已經非常的難找又或者是說有一些人的家屬又會拿來冒用所以在這個狀況下 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
12734.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
12761.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我真的覺得如果在修法上真的要必須交通部可能也要擔起一個責任是要通盤的去做一些一些整理就是說有哪一些道路他真的是這個斜坡真的要把它把它怎麼控管好這些通行道路要控管好那臨停的特別像說有那個無障礙計程車要臨停是否我這邊臨時想到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
12762.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
12774.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
有沒有可能比照一個交通追說這個是有輪椅要上下車所以大家給予一個空間去聆聽這樣子 以上好 謝謝謝謝劉宇謙副秘書長我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
12779.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
12798.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
劉宇記副秘書長 抱歉現在請下一代學生行人入權聯盟總召王敬謙同學特別從高雄趕過來高鐵也延誤在半路上 謝謝下一位發言的委員是游浩委員 請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
12802.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
12829.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
各位長官、各位委員還有就是各位來參與的民眾代表們大家好那我是下一代學生行人路權聯盟的敬謙那我們這個組織呢本身是由一群高中生所組成的一個關心行人路權的組織那在去年的7月的時候我們有在高雄舉辦一場行人路權的遊行那其實今天來這邊的時候其實我是有點百感交集的 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
12829.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
12859.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那第一個是因為我在來這邊的路上高鐵嚴重誤點所以就給我很多時間可以再多思考說今天要分享什麼內容那第二個是說因為其實我們去年在舉辦一個行人路權大型的時候我們原本的初衷是想說要讓臺灣的交通對我們這些交通弱勢族群不管是學生、老人、身心障礙者要更加友善才去舉辦這場遊行的那結果到了今年我看到的狀況完全就是倒行逆施 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
12861.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
12873.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
其實我們當初要辦遊行的時候就是希望反映過交通弱勢的在我們交通上面的一些困境但問題是我們今天這個修法會讓我們守法的人變相的被處罰那我想第一個先講的是違罪的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
12878.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
12897.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
因為交通部一直在說違罪記點違罪不記點那問題是在我看來他所謂的違罪根本就不是違罪他所謂的行為違規一點也不輕微我們看到說交通部列出來的10點要來說取消記點跟檢舉的項目我光是這10點裡面我就5點相當相當反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
12899.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
12917.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
雖然部長剛才說違規停車違規臨時停車這種靜態違規可能會造成因為很不方便造成民怨好那我今天就照他的我扣掉這一點來看還是有五點我完全不能夠接受第一點是未戴安全帽第二點是騎車開車的時候吸食香煙然後再來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
12918.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
12919.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
修法公聽會：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
12938.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
12960.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
因為我不明白這樣到底會造成什麼民怨還是交通部長的標準就只是一千兩百塊以下不計點一刀切就這樣子草草了事的呢這點我保持了非常大的疑問所以就帶到了說因為一千兩百塊這個標準其實台灣的道路的處罰條例對於發還裁量的標準已經很久沒有修訂了那我們這個現行標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
12962.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
12987.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們先是沒有去討論說這個標準在現在是否合宜卻已經在想說要如何幫這些違規人解套這是令我最不解的東西還有交通部一直在說我們要從工程做起我們要劃設黃線我們要把那個讓臨時空間臨時停車的空間做出來然後才讓用路人不會被迫違規那我想我這點是相當贊同因為我自己也是一個駕駛人 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
12988.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
13012.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我在台灣的道路上常常會遇到很多被迫違規的情形但是江部每次在講這件事情的時候都是一直在強調說啊我們什麼時候會劃完黃線我們什麼時候會做完路車設施結果呢結果我們什麼都沒有等到換來的只是大概每半年就會一次說啊我們有民怨所以我們要限縮檢舉我們要限縮祭典這種奇怪的替違規人解套的事情發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
13013.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
13022.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那這又帶到一個問題就是說為什麼我們會產生那麼多違規人在我們的國家那我想最大的問題是我們監理制度一開始就沒有把它把關好 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
13024.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
13046.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
台灣的建立制度已經上落那麼多年每年都會增加新的10萬的考照取得駕照的人但是卻在考照難度上卻在40年間從來就沒有增加過這原因我非常不解我自己是剛滿18歲的人那因為我們在南部比較少大眾藝術可以搭乘所以我們就被迫要再使用私人運具來做移動 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
13046.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
13064.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那在我移動的過程中我去考取駕照發現說他根本就只是走個形式而已我在考取機車駕照的時候我完全沒有練習過就可以考完考取機車駕照的時候我只要報駕訓班花錢他一定會給我過那這點為什麼我覺得我一點很疑惑就是為什麼不先處理監理的問題呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
13065.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
13094.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
因為今天的問題其實沒有什麼民怨可以談啊都是新考照的人為什麼不要先處理這個最基本把我們的源頭把關好而卻又說要開放祭典這個制度祭典這個制度是目前我們的監禁手段駕訓裡面唯一可以淘汰掉危險駕駛的手段那但是我們監禁卻又把這個腳打斷了那就變成是我們沒有任何方法可以淘汰掉現在在我國交通道路上的違規駕駛這點是讓我非常遺憾的所以我希望交通部能夠在這點持續檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
13095.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
13114.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
然後最後一點就是我希望交通部可以適時的公開一些對於說祭典啊、扣照的一些資訊因為其實我們這些民間團體要在網上公開查都查不到以上謝謝謝謝王敬謙同學現在請油耗委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
13123.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
13148.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
謝謝 謝謝召會今天來這邊的許多的不管是委員還有包括我們許多的團體不管是駕駛工會或是相關行人用路權相關各個團體相信大家其實不僅是對在這個所謂國內在道路安全或是行人安全都是充滿許多正義感這個當然說大家都能夠充分感受得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
13149.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
13178.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那我在這裡還是本席也提出因為我是從地方民代出身那其實在之前的話我記得在上次跟就是聯席會議的時候也有提到希望能夠降低還兒童包括行人用路的一個安全的改善因為從2018年到2022年其實在孩童至少有46206的孩童他們其實是因為在用路上交通安全上造成傷亡所以平均是每天是25人還受傷或死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
13179.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
13203.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那當然說在這樣子的一個交通的安全上在孩童不僅是存在許多的一些法規包括我們在車輛的行駛上要去注意之外那本協在這裡也希望說交通部你能夠持續加強還在學校的一個交通安全的一個宣導還能夠讓我們未來的孩童還能夠在這個在用路的時候能夠更加的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
13204.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
13229.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那接著就是本席也上次在聯席會議的時候也曾經提到就是在無障礙空間過去我在當蔡錦榮立委的助理的時候曾經也寫出蔡委員提一個提案他就在就是那時候看到伸張聯盟走上街頭那許多的包括不管是桃園機場或是松山機場他們要做這個相關的一個空橋那要讓伸張者他們能夠來去做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
13229.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
13249.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
一個測試但是沒有測試所以他們不知道他們可不可以在這樣子來去使用所以那時候我寫的提案蔡總委員他提了那也在一個月之內還就進行測試跟改善那所以本席也希望在今天的這場公聽會也讓交通部做個記錄那在未來的無障礙空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
13250.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
13250.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
修法公聽會：完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
13268.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
13295.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我想在這裡也提出剛才有提到先勸導再開單這件事情那本席因為也是基層民在出身那也希望未來交通部也能夠跟警政署盡量溝通在相關的法規上我還是會希望是能夠盡量以先勸導再開單因為其實在我們地方民代常常都會接收到許多的民眾有時候在過年半年貨的時候常常就會有一些檢舉嘛那當然違規停車就是不對但是最主要是希望把他們驅離 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
13296.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
13318.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
還有不要造成影響 也不要去受到這個到時候停在那裡 到時候引起衝突有時候員警因為檢舉 那就趕快去做開單還整排開下去 到時候就起衝突該驅離的車驅離不走反而造成更大的一個交通的影響所以在這個部分來講 許多的一個交通安全我相信降低這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
13319.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
13320.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
修法公聽會：完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
13338.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
13339.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
修法公聽會：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
13359.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
13387.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
當我們在考量的這些駕駛人他們有時候因為一些道路的部分他們可能就是被記到點的時候但是我們其實同樣的如果我們在法規上面我們要演要記點的話我們就必須讓他申訴的一個裁量空間那有關的公務局或者是相關在警政署他們在考量這些在做申訴的時候就必須要給予更大的一個裁量空間因為通常都會維持原本的警政處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
13388.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
13388.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
13408.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
13411.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
謝謝我們第一輪的發言包含6位立委15位團體代表均與發言完畢那現在請工作人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
13439.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
13462.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
發便當我們在12點50分會先請交通部來做相關的說明那在這半個多小時的時間請交通部整理一下各發言代表的重要的發言要點並且提出說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
13463.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
13483.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那我們在12點50分第二輪在交通部發言說明之後我們會進行第二輪的發言第二輪的發言時間是三分鐘發言完畢之後我們會再請交通部做說明那現在很抱歉因為會議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
13486.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
13493.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
時間只讓大家有半個小時吃飯的時間在這邊聲表歉意現在我們先休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
13501.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
13502.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
13529.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
13542.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
修法公聽會：召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
13553.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
13554.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
15588.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
15602.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
好 謝謝各位 我們繼續開會在進行第二輪發言之前我們先請交通部林福山次長先來做說明等一下再請陳彥博次長來做補充好 沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
15609.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
15625.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
主席還有今天與會的各位專家學者包括相關職業價值人團體還有相關入選團體的這一個代表那今天早上這個聆聽大家的一個這一個意見大概我主要我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
15626.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
15626.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
民眾檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
15646.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
15646.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
道路環境道路工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
15672.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
15695.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
去年開始,行政院相關的政策綱領包括相關基本法的制定後面會有行人交通安全設施條例的制定四年400億經費的投入從中央到地方政府大家對於工程這一塊目前都在積極辦理當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
15697.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
15716.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以針對這個相關這個就是說道路環境裡面的這一塊的一個這個優化改善這個部分都是在進行中的一個事項那第二個部分的話就是針對在今天大家討論比較攸關的道路路徹停車環境的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
15718.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
15736.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個部分的話在這個去年也確實要求地方政府三個月內要完成這個優先路段的一個這個排點那希望在今年上半年把相關的一個這個紅黃線合理上下客戶的相關的這個環境要來做一個這一個完成那 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
15738.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
15761.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
後續相關這個比較細部的工程這個部分如果有需要再請這個黃市長做一個補充但是回過頭來討論到今天道路交通管理處罰條例這個法律修正案的一個部分有幾點我再再跟各位做一個這個報告這次這個韓宋立法院審查的這個道路交通管理處罰條例7條之一63條還有63條之二的部分這三個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
15766.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
15766.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
修正修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
15782.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
15809.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
調整的一個部分的話陳吳我一開始在這個專案報告裡面大概有做一個說明那我這邊再補充說明一點就是說大家對於就是說都有提到一個字眼交通部這次送出來針對這個民眾檢舉限縮或是未來這個祭典檢討的部分是用所謂這個違罪不舉1200這樣子的一個滑板金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
15810.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
15810.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
15833.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
15859.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
含送7條之一跟63條跟63條這個修正案是一個這個法律的這個修正案那送這個法律修正案的部分的話就必須要從這個道路交通道路交通管理處罰條例整體的一個這個規定來切入做一個這個考量那在這個道路交通管理處罰條例裡面我跟各位報告就是說處罰條例裡面的處罰有處罰環有講習有祭典有 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
15863.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
15863.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
有各種 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
15878.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
15878.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
15904.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
15928.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
所有的違規都會影響到道路交通安全那在這個就是說不管是國內的處罰條例或是國外交通違規處罰裡面在所有違規的風險裡面基本上還是有相對風險的一個這個切分那這個相對風險的一個部分的話第一個這個相關評價的基準就是以這個划完所以在現行處罰條例裡面就會有300、500、300到600 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
15932.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
15933.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
一千兩百元 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
15954.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
15974.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
在95年行政法法實施的時候行政法法就有3000元以下這個不處罰為適當可免於這個處罰那在95年這個7月的時候同步也修正道路交通管理處罰條例都針對這個輕微違規確實違罪不舉這個是刑法上面一個借用的概念那回到處罰條例這個部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
15977.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
15993.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
是一用這個輕微違規可施予勸導這個名語舉發這樣子的一個這個條文文字的一個規定那在95年這個7月1號這個施行處罰條例修正條文的時候參照行政法法的規定把這個輕微違規可施予勸導這樣子的東西在92條第4項明文規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
15998.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
16019.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
修選在裁判細則裏面來規定這些相關的一個項目那這個1200元也就是當時就是這樣子的一個這個行政法的概念導入之後在現行這個裁判細則12條裏面這個可施予嵌倒免於菊花的項目的這個金額基礎大概就是這個1200元的一個這個部分所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
16020.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
16026.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
這次提出來就是說針對這個就是說以最高划算1200元以下這樣子的一個這個金額然後來這個檢討處罰條例我想大概是基於這個處罰條例這樣子的一個這個架構來做一個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
16036.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
16037.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
修正條文處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
16056.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
16056.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
修正式 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
16079.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
16079.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
修法公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
16098.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
16117.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
16117.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
16117.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
修法公聽會． |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
16137.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
16158.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
6個月計6點,吊扣駕照1個月,在111年大概3萬,就是純粹因為計點而被這個吊扣駕照的部分大概是3萬2千多人那這個去年,包括上半年跟下半年修法這個修法之後,如果以相同點數來看的話,大概有12萬人次那 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
16162.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
16185.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
另外一個部分因為依照新的修正條例的一個規定如果說沒有規則這個真正駕駛人部分的話是改記汽車的這個紀錄三次就要調扣這個牌照這個兩個月那這個部分沒有辦規則這個處罰這個汽車駕駛人的這汽車所有人的部分大概有6萬多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
16185.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
16186.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
16210.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
16217.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
提出最高罰款上限一千兩百元以下做這樣子一個系統性的檢討那這裡面大家對於西向的內容一定會有不同的考量跟見解的部分這個部分早上 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
16236.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
16236.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
修法公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
16257.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
16274.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
考量那相關處罰條例的一個這個修正那各位如果說這個可以查閱一下這個立法院相關議案文書的部分大概每年都會做一個修正那所以有一些東西基本上大概是這個階段性那會有一些這個滾動的一個這個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
16277.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
16299.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那以上大概我早上聆聽這個各團體專家學者的一個這個意見我大概比較中文性做幾點這個整合性意見的一個這個補充說明以上好林市長做初步的一個說明那陳彥博市長有要做補充說明嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
16307.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
16333.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
主席還有今天與會的各個團體還有專家學者我想首先我想今天大家會在這裡談這個問題應該是也是源於大家對交通安全的一個關心那我們從112年從111年到112年到現在我們可以看到交通事故死亡的人數仍然是高居3000人左右不下那雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
16334.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
16356.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
在去年在大家的努力下有稍微的一個降低但是整體跟大家預期的降5%的這樣的一個死亡人數來看還是有一段很大的一個差距所以這也就是為什麼今天我們在討論這樣一個處罰條例修正的時候引起大家這麼廣泛的一個關切所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
16357.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
16376.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
在這個大家經常特別提到的臨死亡願景還沒到來之前我想交通部跟各機關中央各機關我們在這個議題上我們大概還是要持續的一個努力來檢討相關的作為首先第一個我想這樣的一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
16377.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
16404.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那第二個呢是剛才有關這個修法從剛才林司長的不管是一開始的說明和剛才的說明裡頭大概都有特別提到這個其實是在這個因為產生去年的修法的狀況以後產生了不管是檢舉的一個太陽也好或檢舉的行為也好或者是到後面的祭典所產生的整體的衝擊特別提到說這次修法呢其實是屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
16406.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
16423.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
在大家都認知到說人行的環境跟停車的問題還是依然存在之前一個權宜的措施所以他剛才特別提到說交通部為什麼要這樣修又為什麼要那樣修的一個說明但是在今天的大家的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
16424.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
16448.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
一個說明裡頭我覺得我個人我覺得後續或許我們交通部可以在這裡想想看怎麼樣在因為今天聽了大家很多的意見大概不外乎檢舉的裡頭大概檢舉的那些違規的太陽或檢舉的方式那祭典的話很多又特別提到超速像超速這樣的一個違規行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
16449.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
16466.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
如果在祭典上予以不處理的話可能會對整體的交通安全有影響等等的這些問題我想我們會聆聽大家的想法之後呢剛才不管是部長也好或者林市長剛才的說明也好都會在後續有關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
16468.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
16469.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
現在請警政署交通組黃毅山副組長來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
16503.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
16528.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
主席今天與各位先進以及我們專家學者大家午安我想今天非常高興能夠我們警政署我是代表警政署交通署來出席這個會議那從今天早上也都聽到各位寶貴的意見我想大家針對這個到底這一次我們的警察的這個警力 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
16529.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
16552.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
能不能因應這次的這個道路交通管理處罰條例的修法能不能有沒有辦法去負荷或者是大家都很關心說這個打110以後雖然說是這個限縮的部分的這一個民眾可以檢舉的項目但是如果民眾打電話向警察110報案以後警察有沒有辦法這個警力到達現場去做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
16553.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
16576.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我想我針對這個部分來做說明那警力不足的問題至始至終其實都一直存在都一直存在所以這個當時這個道路交通管理處罰條例裡面去設置的這個民眾可以檢舉的這樣子的一個美意其實就是為了希望能夠改善警力不足的問題那的確也是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
16578.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
16599.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
但是這個陳儒跟今天很多議會的先進都有觀察到這個制度設計以後慢慢慢慢好像大家都有發現有一部分的這一個比如說檢舉的這案件的這個數量是持續的好像是有少數的人都一直在檢舉所以這個東西就是所謂的我們的所稱的這個所謂的檢舉的這個達人 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
16601.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
16611.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那這樣子的這個制度的設計之下呢就好像有點類似比較被曲解跟這個被誤用我們本來是希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
16612.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
16614.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
修法公聽會：完整會議修法公聽會：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
16642.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
16652.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
那所以說呢這個其實呢這個警力不足呢其實如果是民眾開放檢舉的部分我們假設是能夠為公益好的話呢其實警力的使用是沒有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
16654.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
16680.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那現在回歸到一個問題就是說假設我們現在目前這個修法以後把這個限縮民眾可以檢舉的話那直接打110報案警察當然是一定要到現場去做處理但是事實上各位都知道警力是有限的警力我們的警察不是只有處理交通違規的案件他包括治安案件很多案件他都必須要處理所以他必須要有重要性跟緊急性 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
16680.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
16695.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
所以不可否認的是如果說這個檢舉的案件就是說民眾反映的違規交通違規案件如果在同一個短時間之內很多的話可能警力到達現場的警力可能會稍微有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
16696.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
16713.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
會稍微有一點點比較不如不如人意這是我必須要承認的包括每一個地方的交通的環境不一樣可能有擁載的條件可能也不一樣所以呢那這個部分呢可能大家就會去去所謂的去比較擔心的這一點所以我們可以用什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
16714.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
16738.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
可以用科技執法的部分來做補助這一塊也就是說警察當警力有限的時候呢我們所care的部分不是你單一個個別的在社區裡面單一個檢舉的案件我們可能是針對於比較熱點性的違規案件比如說違規停車可能在交通繁忙的地方火車站或者是一些客運的轉接站這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
16741.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
16769.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
經常這個地方依違規影響到順暢很嚴重我們在這個地方設科技執法讓這個民眾就知道在這個地方絕對不能停就算你零停的部分可能我們就會警告你讓你趕快離開或者某一些路段他今天如果是超速的話那他很容易就發生車禍危及到民眾的這個生命安全所以我們在這個地方做區間測速用科技執法的部分彌補警力的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
16770.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
16796.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
所以我想在這個地方就是我要重新的這個再強調一點就是說其實我們是希望用有限的警力來發揮到最大的效能那希望能夠把這個交通在安全跟順暢的這兩個前提之下發揮到最大的效能那這個部分是我針對早上很多的專家學者包括我們的委員他特別提到這個警力的部分是不是有辦法去負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
16797.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
16824.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
這一次的這個修法的部分還有民眾打110的部分是不是我們有辦法去做處理這一塊特別簡單做個說明謝謝各位好 謝謝其他列席官員有要做補充說明嗎沒有的話我們現在進行第二輪的學者專家以及團體代表的發言第一位我們先請廖先祥委員發言下一位請陳法軍代表做準備時間3分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
16832.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
16846.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好 謝謝我還是想再次的強調現今的交通環境如果無法針對違規者進行懲罰那就是對守法的人在進行變相的懲罰那當然交通案進步交通的規則 檢舉制度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
16848.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
16864.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
設立那或許大家會認為說走得太快了那所以說交通部在去年的時候也做了一些調整我們也都認為確實循序漸進我們在把社會上的紛爭盡量不要影響到多數人的權益這是大家的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
16865.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
16890.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
這就是一種妥協啦針對增益大的部分我們可以做一些調整這絕對是可以討論的但是我們的交通部也必須要提出更多事實的一些數據剛剛我們交通部長官有說了未來我們會提出更多有關祭典相關的數據讓我們的民間團體能夠充分的來討論祭典來某個時段某一些法規的情況下有多少人被祭典那造成什麼樣子的影響包括職業價值的升級的衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
16893.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
16907.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那我認為在去年限縮民眾檢舉之後那有兩個比較大的一個部分還是可能是可以討論的第一個當然就是我們職業駕駛的一個生計那既然這都確實造成職業駕駛他們的困難因為我們職業駕駛確實沒有違規的一些必要他們就是送貨而已他們沒有違規的一些企圖或是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
16920.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
16944.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
就是想要違規他們是必不得已是違規所以我才會在剛剛的發言說我認為祭典制度確實是可以做一些檢討跟限縮但是剛剛李博士也有講那針對重大的一些違規項目比如說危險駕駛這些可能就跟我們上下會沒有關係了單純是行使行為我是認為祭典的項目可以去做一些限縮不然現在如果說有一個檢舉達人今天看某一個駕駛不爽 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
16946.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
16947.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
剪舉達人剪舉上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
16972.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
16996.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
做一些妥協跟調整我想大家都是可以接受的但是我們現在交通部所提出的修法的方案確實有點太粗糙了直接把我們當初所做的一些進步跟努力好像一次就把它通通都放棄了回到了原點交通的進步一定是循序漸進那走得太快的時候我們可以做一些調整但是我希望能夠更細明一點就是我剛剛講的包括第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
16997.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
16997.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
剪矩打人 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
17020.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
17040.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
現在因為都是實名制,我們應該去做一些項目的上限調整,那以後這幾點也是後續我在教育會會持續我們交通部長官持續討論的一些方向,謝謝好,謝謝現在請黃璐玉銘行人路權促進會的代表陳法軍代表發言,下一位李威和理事長請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
17045.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
17050.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
抱抱抱歉陳凱琳理事長下一位陳凱琳理事長不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
17053.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
17076.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
那針對剛剛交通部的回應的話我們這邊提出一個問題就是關於免於處罰的話這個部分是法律的位階那如果今天你把這些東西拿掉比如像違規停車這些東西拿掉的話你涉及到弱勢用路人的生命身體安全的時候那這個部分是不是對於基本權有一個侵害的話請交通部可能回去需要處理一下這個部分可能會有跟憲法有關的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
17077.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
17101.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
好 那再來協會這邊提出一個具體的提出一些具體的建議那在工程面的部分的話我們希望中央的話可以訂出相關的工程法規然後讓各級政府能夠準守比如像紅黃線的劃設指引道路構造這些通用的範本等可以跟內政部他們一起去做協調那還有另外像是這些比如像新社從發區這種紅黃線一路劃到底的這些問題的話也可能需要解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
17103.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
17124.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
計程車招募制度及上下貨的制度香港計程車招募制度即上即落即走人等車或是不可停車等或這些的輔助交通標誌可以去做參考設立以及避車彎的處理這些都是可以去參考的在監理教育的部分的話我們希望可以有車隊的APP介面可以去規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
17125.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
17125.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
道路交通安全基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
17144.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
17164.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
最後是執法面的部分執法面部分的話我們希望如果有因為道路工程設計問題而導致的違規的話應該要有一些救濟的制度當然現在我們知道行政訴訟法裡面已經有相關的救濟制度了但是在這個部分的話除了可能有一些更便捷的那個申訴制度之外的話或許我們可以從裁量空間下面去做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
17165.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
17191.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
然後再來就是如果說因為可能因為他人原因比如像我們剛剛講到上下課這些問題的話上下課那個在醫院啊或者是教學區上下課這些問題的話我們還有相關的法規在法規裡面都有去做規定那這些部分的話可以回歸到去做一些調整然後以及作為橫頻的措施那不是代表說但不代表說可以用這些理由去影響弱勢用戶人的生命身體安全謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
17195.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
17204.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
謝謝現在請陳凱琳理事長發言下一位請數位平台預約接送從業員工從業員工會理事長李威爾請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
17219.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
17237.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
我是凱琳 我想要再針對剛才司長這邊有提到說去年已經有降低41人的這個高安環境的改善再去強調去年的這個目標期應該是有5%的死亡下降但是並沒有達標所以我們首先就不能夠認同這個高安環境有改善的前提的假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
17238.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
17257.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
針對這一次的修法,我們有提出一些訴求第一個是前面江部這邊有承諾會給出的科技數據不管是各組條項目對於交通安全的影響以及對於事故的風險還有不管是調控人數和調控樣態都應該要在排審前公告出來不管是公告給委員們,也應該要公告給民眾讓我們可以去參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
17260.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
17261.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
道路工程改善計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
17278.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
17301.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
所以我們希望這一次 前面江部司長這邊有講說應該要在道路工程改善好以前去做這次檢舉跟祭典的調整 那改善好是什麼時候 有什麼規劃以及有什麼多少預算 多少的道路會去設計這個臨時停車格 避車彎 公車彎以及卸貨區 我們都沒有看到任何規劃 請江部這邊盡速的提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
17302.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
17328.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
對於配套措施必須要妥善規劃例如說前面有提到的貨車如果要在路邊圍停卸貨的話是不是有三角軸或是車輛的警示讓他們在卸貨的時候不要讓後車有嘴撞或是讓行人跌倒或受傷的這些相關的配套規劃目前都還沒有看到請交通部這邊盡速提出以及對於法規的宣導是不是可以告知乘客合法的乘車位置在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
17330.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
17330.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
17360.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
17388.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
總檢舉量有70%也就是警察只有檢舉30%那剛才檢政署提的科技執法以及區間測數真的能夠去去處理70%的違規嗎我們認為是很困難的是不是可以透過交通助理員或是其他的執法方式去做改革那最後是對於民間的參與的部分我們認為說應該要去有更細緻的討論這一次的修法很明顯只有一次的座談會而且座談會的過程中完全沒有去提到這十項要開放的項目完全等於是沒有任何民間的參與我們希望可以有更細緻更廓 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
17388.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
17389.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
謝謝 現在請李威爾理事長來做報告那下一位我們請臺灣機車路權促進會羅宇理事準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
17419.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
17421.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我開始之前先放一段影片給大家看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
17453.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
17478.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
好 各位這是我實際的客人他是輪椅的客人他停在哪裡 他停在轉角他停在人行道請問我該怎麼辦拒絕他我上車只問了他一句話你怎麼沒有叫無障礙通用計程車他說我叫不到所以我只能叫計程車身上可以怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
17481.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
17497.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我要回歸到我的檔案那邊就是我之前提的是一件我之前提的是說我們要實際來談這些事情我覺得交通部我跟各位講啊這五年沒有人抗議交通部比我抗議的多啦我抗議交通部的次數最多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
17499.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
17519.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
可是我在這幾年的抗議裡面我學會了一個經驗就是說對專務部來講其實你要這些你對他們只有一個很簡單的要求第一他不能違法第二他必須走程序這件事情現在的爭議點是在於說今天這個法它是母法是立法院去決定這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
17520.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
17548.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
而交通部他就是所謂的處理細則是針對祭典他的難處跟你我想要的東西最困難的是什麼最困難的是立法院到底現在態度是什麼如果你今天要把每一條逐條去審查請問要花多久的時間實際上面你我的生活我們能等待這麼久嗎我舉一個最簡單看這回理由感的水風也騎呀 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
17549.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
17572.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
我之前在高雄生活了十幾年我在高雄開車啊請問一下水雄駕車多一條南平路跟玉城路哪一條可以臨時上下車沒有啊這就是問題嘛那你我願不願意去面對你我現在生活上面的問題啊道路交通改善要做啊教育要做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
17574.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
17590.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
包含很多委員今天的一些意見都非常的好啊可是我們可不可以先往前走一步我曾經問王國才一件事情啊除了行政體系可以提出修法 立法院也可以啊那我還是要呼籲交通委員會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
17592.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
17609.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
先讓這件事情先過了讓你我的生活能夠稍微有一點的緩和真的覺得要往前走立法委員應該要擔起這樣子的責任你也可以提案啊為了人民的進步能夠更好啊然後再去做修正謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
17613.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
17620.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
謝謝 現在請羅儀理事發言下一位是臺灣障礙者權益促進會副秘書長 劉宇濟副秘書長請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
17632.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
17654.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
好那剛剛有許多的委員跟團體代表也都有發言那也有提到自己面臨的問題那交通部剛剛也其實有做一些回應但我覺得非常遺憾的就是說認為說剛剛不管是市長還是次長剛剛回應到的都沒有提到我剛剛所提到的這個機車面現在未來可能會無路可走的這個困境也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
17655.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
17680.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
外側都是維艇 內側是經營機車這樣的困境實在是機車主 機車的用路人必須要盡快的來去改善的一個困境那也在這邊想要跟大家說明就是說很多人覺得說檢舉達人或是所謂的檢舉魔人他們可能都騎摩托車 頭上戴著這個行車紀錄器我們這邊曾經就有夥伴有遇到他其實就是戴著這個機車行車紀錄器在路上結果呢 他就被路人攻擊 叫囂 叫罵 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
17682.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
17702.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
但是呢這樣子的人可能他出車禍的時候又會上FB的社團去徵求有沒有行車記錄器可以來替他主持公道我們也必須要說我們不認為單靠民眾的檢舉制度就可以改善交通但是呢在現在剛剛我所提到的這些擁護人所面臨到的困境外側未來開放給大家來去做維庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
17706.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
17728.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
內側又是進行機車那過去我們還有民眾檢舉的這個管道可以來做一個自我的權力救濟可以用自己的力量來改善交通但是呢現在這個權力也被剝奪了那我們就想問配套措施在哪裡機車該何去何從難道要我們看到危停的時候停下來打電話給警察等一個多小時然後我們才可以騎走嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
17729.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
17732.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
還是我們就是得被迫的違規我們覺得這樣的狀況其實跟剛剛很多職業駕駛的團體所面臨到的狀況是很像的 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
17738.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
17761.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那我們這邊也必須要再次的去強調就是說這一次的修法如果真的通過了外側的環境一定會更加更加的混亂那交通部或者是立法院也應該要來做出開放機車行駛、內車車道還有就是取消強制樑上式左轉這樣子的這個做法來去做配套因為機車它到路口有圍停 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
17762.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
17762.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
修法公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
17778.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
17781.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
政策討論不一定要到立法院才可以來做政策討論政策討論在行政端在交通部提出草案的時候就可以做討論了不要再像 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
17793.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
17816.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
3月4號的那種座談會一樣這麼樣的參促禮拜五下午4點59分發開會通知禮拜一早上9點要開會這實在是非常非常的不合理那最後面補充剛剛警政署有提到科技執法的部分我相信其實在座的很多團體都反對區間測數大家都只看以表版不去看路那我們覺得科技執法的部分還是要用對地方才可以保障到大家的安全謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
17821.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
17828.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
謝謝 現在請劉雨季副秘書長發言下一位請台灣安全駕駛監督聯盟理事長林美羅準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
17830.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
17839.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
大家好 台灣障礙者權益促進會第二次發言我這邊就呼籲一下前一位的先進他的確拿了影片出來給大家看到身心障礙者的一個真實生活的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
17849.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
17872.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
在我第一次發言的最尾端就是說其實上下車這件事情其實是對於不管是輪椅使用者或者是今天有親子家庭要推娃娃車的這些家庭是不是正在這一次修法的時候我們可以有一個更完善的 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
17874.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
17888.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
規劃 例如說今天可能大多數的人都居住在社區跟公寓裡那可能在這個巷弄裡面沒有這麼好的上下車的一個環境跟條件下 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
17888.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
17898.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那什麼樣的狀況是可以上下車的然後如果今天我是叫無障礙計程車或者是等等的狀況下怎麼樣這個駕駛不會被罰或者是我也不會被罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
17904.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
17905.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
法規完善以後也可以對於民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
17923.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
17944.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
或對於一些職業駕駛們去做一些教育宣導不然就不會有像剛剛真的有駕駛的前輩們講的就是說真的碰到輪椅或碰到老人真的動作比較慢然後真的就不為了怕被罰錢就不載 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
17945.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
17965.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那我覺得這個真的是一個我們這一群人就是弱勢中的弱勢那這一些狀況下請大家可以好好的去思考清楚說這一個道路或這一個交通等等的可以怎麼樣的安排怎麼樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
17965.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
17966.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
請交通安全協會陳宏毅理事長準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
17994.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
18003.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
謝謝主席 台灣安全駕駛監督聯盟第二次發言違規違罪不計點違規違罪不檢舉我要請問誰能保證違規違罪不會釀貨不會出人命 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
18011.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
18011.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
18031.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
18034.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
請中央部不要再迴避請你給我們駕訓駕照及駕駛管理制度的2.0改善計畫請你給我們這樣一個改善計畫我們從源頭來管理來改善這樣的一個開除不適應駕駛的制度再來我要強調的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
18059.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
18060.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
修法公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
18078.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
18092.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
二十三萬件的未戴安全帽創下八年來的新高試問﹖如果沒有這些取締﹖那麼致死率有多高呢﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
18097.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
18098.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
18123.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
18131.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
謝謝現在請陳宏毅理事長發言下一位也是交通安全協會的秘書長吳瑞琳請準備各位與會的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
18146.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
18166.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
先進還有這些我們交通主管單位的長官們我覺得最終我們現在這個整個法令看來其實我們覺得道路本來就不是獨佔或是分配或是霸佔用轟強的模式在處理這個交通管理條例的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
18167.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
18168.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
修法公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
18184.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
18212.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
其實就是普遍的被害啦其實坦白說所有用路人都在承擔這個環境不良設置不佳然後整個法規沒有完整比如說我們最近說白石線10公分的部分能不能超越其實從中央一直到地方從交通採取所交通大隊一直問這個白石線車道分隔線可不可以跨越其實莫衷於是原來的法條呢就有行政裁量讓他自由解釋的空間這一點我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
18213.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
18218.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
也在這個法條上面不管看的其實都沒有要求自己怎麼去做那其實呢這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
18220.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
18247.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
交通所有的告發條件呢全世界都是一樣以現場取締抓到違規人為最糟的指導原則而不是去設定在車輛我們現在是抓車不抓人啦人你抓不到剛才說的科技執法好科技怎麼執法科技可以把人抓下來嗎我們有機器我們有機械戰警嗎沒有所以呢也抓不到人二來呢普遍超速的狀態之下呢我也不曉得我們的內政部警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
18248.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
18248.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
我第二次發言到此 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
18274.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
18289.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
好 謝謝現在請吳瑞琳秘書長發言下一位請下一代學生行人入權聯盟總召王敬謙來做準備來那個來我們來處理 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
18294.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
18316.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
謝謝主席 謝謝各位與會的貴賓台灣交通安全協會秘書長吳瑞玲第一次發言那我是想說分享幾個生活經驗啦我從2022年10月中台灣開放國境我就一直出入境我的經驗大概不超過就不下100次我最常看到的智慧執法就是在機場周邊接送客 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
18316.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
18327.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
這些家人們大家好像看到智慧執法他還是沒有什麼感覺我覺得最切身的感覺就是警察來巡邏了那個警鳴聲大家都開走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
18328.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
18328.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
修法公聽會．召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
18351.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
18370.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
呃我跟你說齁你訂的餐廳沒有停車場你必須坐電車去我剛開始聽我不能接受你知道嗎後來才發現原來日本其實很多地方你要訂的餐廳是要有停車場他才會直接在店下給你下課沒有的話你必須在離他很遠的私人停車的場域 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
18371.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
18380.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
我相信最近櫻花大開了 大家也會到前朝觀音寺啦 或者到京都到處去賞花 你們一定會發現 你們走很多路去餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
18382.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
18390.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
為什麼 因為車子要停在停車場你要去的地方 你必須自己走路過去像我剛剛聽的不管是職業駕駛還是我們就是入權團體大家一直討論的那個問題就是說這個違規停車什麼樣的可是我不曉得為什麼這幾次的公聽會我參加不止一次我從來沒有看到就是說很常被開違規停車場域的經營者也來參與公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
18407.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
18430.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
是你造成的耶道路道路是我們通行的路不是給你上下車你不能把你的經營成本轉嫁到我們道路使用者或者行人的安全上我覺得這個部分是不能妥協的譬如現在台灣有這麼多各大超商或者是大家開店很喜歡開在轉角這些地方就是很容易違規停車啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
18432.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
18432.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
施政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
18450.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
18451.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
以上謝謝各位 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
18481.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
18487.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
好 謝謝現在請王敬謙總召發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
18496.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
18523.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
各位與會的先進還有各位委員們大家好那其實我在來第二次發言的時候我就是想要再次強調我最堅持的兩點訴求第一個是我們剛才有講到的說有五點包含說未戴安全帽騎車抽煙還有停在快車道跟逆向停車命牌停車以及最重要的身心障礙車會停車這五點是千萬不能夠取消的因為它不能用民怨來解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
18524.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
18549.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我想 民眾在日常的生活中 一定基本上有一些基本的道德良知那尤其是在攝障車位這個部分其實是 不可以去做停放 應該是大家必須有的共識但因為這次的修法 過於片面在一千兩百元以下 都統一來不做規範所以我要在這邊再次強調說對於攝障車位這個部分 必須要特別的去重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
18551.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
18578.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那再來其實因為在過去還有很多團體間的溝通以及跟政府間的溝通常會提到民怨兩個字那其實我個人的想法是因為依照我過往的經歷來看民怨之所以會有民怨很大一部分是因為政府根本民眾根本不清楚政府完整的政策也就是說尤其是像祭典制度跟檢舉制度這兩項東西在最近這幾年是一直朝令夕改的 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
18579.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
18597.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
那很多民眾根本不清楚說現在紅黃線一般的紅黃線已經不請檢舉很多民眾根本不清楚說監獄達人其實不可以檢舉說就是你在很一般的紅黃線停車阿或是一些比較輕微的東西現在我們要解操的這些東西都不只是違罪而是更容易造成交通危險的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
18598.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
18616.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
所以我想政府應該要在這個方面多加著力也就是說讓我們的民眾知道說監獄達人的存在不是說他騎機車頭上戴一個行車紀錄器就等於他要檢舉你而是說他現在人檢舉的情況已經變得非常的少只有像轉角並排還有更多的危險行為才可以檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
18617.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
18634.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
好 那至於說其實常常就是會有一些職業家子有提到說像是計程車上下載客的問題那其實我個人有一點想法就是說其實如果我們的政府一直沒有辦法對這個東西就是做一些工廠的設計那我想看能不能從 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
18634.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
18634.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
修法公聽會：完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
18661.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
18684.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
那最後我想跟江部來講一件事情就是說常常會在講民怨民怨這個東西那其實我想強調的是雖然我們現在一直在講民怨但我們最多的在講說違規者的民怨交通方便的人的民怨但是從來都沒有提到過像我們這些交通弱勢者學生身上族群還有老人的民怨所以我想江部應該也要重視一下我們目前的民怨以上謝謝那 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
18689.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
18700.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
我們的第1輪發言已經全部發言完畢現在請交通部林福山市長來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
18711.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
18727.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
針對第二輪發言的一個部分我大概中整一下大概有幾個重點大概就是說第一個部分這個弱勢用戶人的一個這個群議那另外一個部分的話大概是這個陳凱玲這個理事長大概有提到一些相關配套措施的部分那這個部分我大概這個簡單重點這個報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
18730.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
18744.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
這個弱勢擁護人在道路上面的權益是大家都必須要去這一個保護的我想這個是一個普世的一個這個價值那確實就是說那這個現行相關包括我們的這一個人行道或等等的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
18745.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
18745.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
18761.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
18761.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
陳凱玲議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
18779.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
18800.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
如果碰到一些違規停車或是說大家路邊這個比較常看到這個商業營業車輛貨車的一些上下貨的這個配套措施的一個部分我跟各位報告在112年這個交通部及公務總局就特別針對貨車制定一個上下貨的一個這個注意事項的一個這個手冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
18802.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
18831.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
那這裡面就包括這個要置放三角錐或是這個四方要有警示的一個部分而且後方要有人在做引導的一個部分那這個部分我們會在這個通函給相關的這個婚姻公會要求所屬的這個業者對所屬的駕駛人跟這個車輛的部分要落實這個部分那這個部分的話我們也會請公路局把這個部分列入這個婚姻業相關平常這個安全考核的一個查核的一個事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
18831.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
18831.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
規定各類違規 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
18857.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
18858.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
18873.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
18873.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
18894.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
18919.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
最近針對有一些違規紀錄風險較高的這個部分交通部正在研議恢復定期換照的部分那目前這個之前大概有這個預告過那現在再重新做調整就是說針對吊扣駕駛執照一年以下吊扣駕駛執照一年以上還有這個吊銷駕照重新照考慮的時候然後要 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
18919.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
18919.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
18950.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
18950.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
路邊大圍艇時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
18961.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
18982.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
我跟各位報告就是說民眾檢舉並不是處罰條例57年制定就有民眾檢舉的制度是在86年才增進來這樣子的一個制度那大家去如果有興趣其實就是說在這個內政部檢控署官網都可以查到國內每一年舉發交通違規的這個案件數 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
18983.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
19010.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
這個我如果印象沒錯的話從86年87年1200多1300多到應該是到90年快到這一個兩件件那裡面這個進行舉發的一個這一個部分基本上都是這個一大概跟當場難檢大概是1比3那在這個90幾年之前其實進行舉發的案件數都是警察機關的一個執法裡面很少是民眾這一個檢舉的部分那 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
19011.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
19037.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
後來到這個相關數位的一個設備比較先進之後那其實大家看到後面有一陣子這個執法政策強調就是當場這個燃艇的部分後面又降回來大概這個900多萬1000多萬這個出頭那後面這個就是說民眾檢舉多了之後這個相關每年舉發的案件數大概又回到1700多1800多所以大家提到的一個這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
19038.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
19065.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
從每年這個原來警察機關這個當場攔檢跟進行舉報的案件數跟後來民眾有加入就是說有這個增進民眾檢舉項目之後其實這些相關總執法的案件數基本上都這個差不多那這個但是呢裡面有一些這個民眾的檢舉案件這個上來之後原來要彌補警力不足的一個部分到最後是警力是要回過頭來處理民眾檢舉這些相關的部分那剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
19066.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
19066.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
19090.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
19109.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
警察大概就這個舉發舉發完之後後面這個駕駛人要去申訴要去處理就有一些這個確實民眾檢舉裡面會有一些這些相關的一個這個情況那所有法規的一個這個規定的部分我這邊可能就是藉這個機會再跟這個各位報告都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
19110.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
19134.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
必須要尋求一個比較橫頻的一個這個處理方式來做一個處理啦那這個橫頻的一個部分的話基本上是環境跟各項包括工程執法監理教育大家項目配套可能在那個階段是一個比較適當的一個這個處理方式但是這些相關的這個規定基本上都會滾動做一個檢討去因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
19136.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
19137.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
陳彥博次長有做補充說明嗎?好 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
19160.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
19184.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
剛才那個有關這個修法的相關的議題大概都也有說明了那也會有在後續我們再來檢討的時候再來跟大家再來就教但是剛才在裡頭提出來一個有關交通安全也是大家經常在講的這個我可以稍微來跟回應一下因為這個跟這個議題但是整體上是有關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
19186.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
19208.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
很多人都會一直談到現在的道路的相關的規範剛才講到應該是同學講到的說是不是紅線上下貨避讓等等應該是交通安全等很多人都有特別提到那個相關的規範是不是應該要有相關的指引等等的或者是說有什麼在道路工程的設計有什麼不一樣的或標示標線設計或是剛才講的機車的這個兩段式左轉等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
19213.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
19219.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
這些問題我跟大家報告一下,在我們的交通部的推動計畫裡面,我們會在運輸研究所會有一個小組,會邀請大家就這些問題,會來做進一步的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
19232.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
19258.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
那至於說有關道路工程的部分我想我們公路總局也會有一個機制跟大家來討論意思就是說務必讓而後在道路上的相關的這種交通標誌標線號誌或者是道路設計等等的這些都有相關大家可以各縣市政府都可以一致的然後也包含交通部或內政部也好也都有一致的一個規範來也不會造成一國有多致的一個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
19258.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
19280.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
那至於說剛才特別有特別提到說有關交通工程改善的一個情形剛才我也跟我們陸正吉道恩司司長有特別提到就是說有關像大家講的說什麼卸貨區域到底怎麼怎麼到底已經改善了多好啊或者是黃線有的幾個原來是紅線的有幾個地方已經改成黃線等等的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
19281.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
19307.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
在以後的這個各縣市的這個推動計畫裡頭我們會去來要求那像以後的相關的道安市市長我們也會來予以注意以上好 謝謝其他官員有要做補充說明嗎沒有的話我請問在座的學者專家以及團體代表有沒有要進行第三輪的發言如果有要發言請來登記好 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
19311.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
19337.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
還有沒有其他的代表要發言的時間也是3分鐘好了好我要提醒所有還是回歸到我今天的主軸就是實際的狀況我提醒各位一件事情監理系統現在在規則祭奠這件事情以我的案例來講 我有一張罰單 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
19341.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
19346.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
現在是4月了它的規則目前監理系統只到12月所以其實法條的修正我還是要回歸到一件事情就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
19356.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
19373.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
主管機關因為民怨 因為有一些實際的狀況他提出了整體考量的修正之後他是第一階段可以去做的事情可是當大家在這裡或是堅持各自立場的時候卻沒有去思考到一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
19374.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
19395.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
很重要的事情是當你堅持這個法條到最後的時候其實背後所衍生的配套的問題還有你看不到的問題到底是有什麼我舉個簡單的例子當我的規則沒有辦法從即時到我的身上來的時候我的車輛是不能異動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
19397.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
19425.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
你知道現在有多少車行的車司機可能不開了可能有很多的狀況他現在是沒有辦法移動因為監理系統塞大車今天有很多的那個裁決所的所長都有來你們一定很有感可是問題是這些事情我覺得交通部委員應該要打一下屁股有沒有把這些執行的細節的困難讓我們的委員還有讓社會大眾知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
19427.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
19449.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
我們不斷在爭議一件事情就是說到底這個法到底對還是不對可是我們忽略了最後最重要一件事情是你執行了以後你背後所產生的問題到底現在的進度是什麼而影響一般老百姓還有大眾的人實際上面的生存到底狀況是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
19450.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
19474.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
我覺得加入在這件事情上面其實沒有善盡到告知所有社會大眾包含委員你們的困難還有背後所衍生的問題回歸到最後一句話你不要違規就好各位大家今天提了很多數據我提一個我最實在的每天的數據我一天載25個客人我違規49.5次 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
19481.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
19507.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
為什麼少0.5次你知道嗎?因為那個客人我到了定點之後他放我鳥我沒載到所以我沒辦法第50趟的違規這就是現在我們的問題另外我最後強調一件事情啊職業駕駛不是不怕罰錢啦我跟各位講我是五口五口你賺的我怕罰錢我更怕祭典謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
19509.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
19512.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
好 謝謝 現在請陳鴻業理事長發言其他的學者專家團體代表有要發言的請登記或舉手有關於剛才這個職業駕駛所表達的意見也是跟我們自用車駕駛是一模一樣的處境用的越多 領的越多 罰的越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
19537.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
19560.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
當然 祭典跟罰款 都是我們的痛如果他們祭的典 又被罰款我們希望呢 在這個裁決的部分呢我們有類似警告啦 小過啦 大過啦 而不是一刀砍的全部用一定的處罰條例我們一直講說 是不是可以祭典 就不要罰款不行 我們一定要罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
19560.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
19569.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
那要罰款以前就有罰款的現在對所有用路人來講他覺得是雙重處罰但是民眾舉發的是不是我們記點不罰款那就減少一大部分的人那記點不罰款警察有沒有開警告單黃單的我覺得勸導而不裁罰這是一個假議題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
19580.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
19580.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
修法公聽會． |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
19602.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
19623.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
不是不罰只是我告知你我警戒你說我會開Yellow Ticket給你黃單警告你你在兩個禮拜內你又發生同樣的違規你是常在性違規我上面那張單就成立了我們一定要有賞有罰啦而不是只是一直想要罰款一直去強調人家怎麼我覺得大家都被迫違規啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
19624.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
19639.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
超速為什麼超速是我們最多的問題因為我們的道路速限不合理嘛所以普遍大家都超速區間這是我們可以拿來好好運用啊我們把他抓來的所有的每個月100個我們要抓前30名超速最嚴重的我們要罰嘛其他70%我們就知道了 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
19643.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
19656.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
85分位在哪裡嘛那個道路是不是合理速限嘛我們就可以制定出良好的速限而不是我們只是科技執法是為了罰錢而不是為了改良交通我覺得我們的改良交通是不存在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
19658.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
19678.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
這個駕駛人沒有辦法上課載貨一般的用路人他也沒有辦法把載我的家人 帶我的東西進出啦一模模一樣樣 只是他們站在了火線上他們今天背了一個黑鍋啦 為什麼因為他們是 已經動不了了 他們先出來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
19679.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
19679.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
19697.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
19718.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
所以正在台灣交通安全協會這個和諧運行平權使用的立場我們希望不管是機車行人腳踏車各路的用路人都可以獲得最良好的用路的條件的保障警察也要負起他職責的責任而不要丟給民眾謝謝大家好 謝謝現在請林美羅理事長發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
19728.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
19732.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
謝謝主席安江盟第三次發言我不懂交通部為什麼要等到這個草案逐條審查的時候才要提供給委員或者是對外公開我們昨天在深夜的時候得到這樣的一個資訊據統計112年6月30號祭典新制實施到113年3月6號祭滿12點者共有 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
19754.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
19775.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
一萬六千三百一十二人職業駕駛兩千一百七十三人普通駕駛一萬四千一百三十九人其主要的違規事項前五項我說給大家參考第一項第四十條一般道路超速佔二十趴第二項第三十三條高快速 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
19776.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
19779.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
公路違規占15%第三項第55條違規臨停占13%第4項第53條一項的闖紅登記3點占12%第5項第48條違規依規定轉彎或變換車道的占12% |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
19797.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
19799.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
為什麼交通部我們從倡議到現在交通部始終不公開透明為什麼這些數據不敢面對全民面對公民團體的這個檢驗以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
19816.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
19830.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
謝謝,我們第一輪總共有21人次發言第二輪有10人次發言第三輪有3人次發言那我們現在還是請交通部來做一個說明來,林福山市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
19840.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
19840.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
19862.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
19863.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
其他單位有要做補充說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
19893.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
19914.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
我先向各位與會代表報告公聽會是收集社會各界學者專家團體代表大家的意見、看法、建議來作為我們相關的立法委員在針對特定法案修法的時候的重要參考依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
19915.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
19939.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
所以今天都讓大家充分的表達意見那今天不是巡打不是巡打那各位的意見都會充分的記錄在我們的除了現場的轉播之外另外也會有相關的在10日內依照立法院職權刑事法第58條必須製作報告將各位的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
19940.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
19967.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
交給所有的113位立法委員每人都要有一份然後與會的代表也要有一份這是58條所明文規定的那59條也明文規定公聽會的這一些發言是立法委員針對特定議案的修法的重要參考依據那我還是不曉得各位還有什麼要補充意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
19970.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
19997.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
如果沒有的話我來做今天的這樣的一個本次公聽會的結語報告跟說明依據立法院職權行使法第58條規定委員會因與公聽會終結後10日內依出席者所提供之正反意見提出公聽會報告送交本院全體委員及出席者 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
19999.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
20024.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
另外第59條規定公聽會報告作為審查該特定議案之參考我們會將所有出席人員的發言及書面資料綜合歸納除了刊登公報之外並會編成公聽會的報告送交本院全體委員及所有出席貴賓參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
20027.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
20040.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
並作為未來審查特定議案的參考再次感謝各位的出席以及提供寶貴的意見本日會議到此結束 散會謝謝大家 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
20063.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
20065.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
法定人數不足 |