| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360537bb23c3956575de45dd5fe0ad21242b44eee46cb88a10614b1ada5b04794185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐巧芯 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:07:57 - 13:23:50 |
| 影片長度 |
953 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 我們有請洪森漢部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
39.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員好部長好您是在11月25號上任的對吧是好那我想問一下有一個問題就是上個禮拜的時候因為您已經上任大概一週有餘那差不多上個禮拜的時候勞發署有沒有發一封信件給各個分署要求同仁要填寫表單 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
40.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
47.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
詢問是否有平日加班、假日加班、超時工作有沒有打卡的情況,進行調查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
51.133 |
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56.937 |
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請回答大聲一點好不好你可以大聲一點嗎這收音的問題好那我知道那請問部長你知道這件事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
81.808 |
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90.315 |
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我坦白說在這個發的時候其實我並不知道啦你不知道那時候你上任了嗎那時候我上任你上任了但你不知道但這件事沒有報上來沒有報上來所以勞發署發了一封信件給各分署同仁要求填寫表單而且呢他是一個實名制的調查喔他要求同仁問 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
103.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
跟委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
133.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那你負責的態度是什麼?你覺得有必要道歉嗎?你知道那些同仁他們同事之間心照不宣都知道誰有來加班但呢寫了又後悔要刪掉怕自己寫出去會造成單位主管不滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
170.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
怕拖累不敢寫 寫了又刪除最後整個單位很有默契的全部給出空白的表單我現在問你們發出去之後回函裡面說自己有加班的有多少人佔多少比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
172.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
請回覆我們回覆之後我們有加班的是大概10個人左右總共有多少人來總共有多少人有回覆的人在10個人左右那你總共發給多少人嗎我們發給本署跟所署大概2000人左右2000人然後回覆了多少人回覆10位請問部長這是一個什麼樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
徐委員我這邊可以直接說啦就是對於調查方法如果有問題的或者是調查方法其實看起來明顯答不到所以大家想要了解成果的部分當然我們就是要當然就是檢討啦這有符合左院長宣布任命你為部長的時候你的三大期許嗎你跑到那個你上任的時候跑到了北分署裡面然後留下了你的電話之後這些人也不敢打電話給你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
223.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
231.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
其實有確實有有人打電話給你跟你講這件事確實有基層反應這件事所以有人打電話給你告訴你這件事情那你有處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
232.356 |
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255.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們其實有看到所以有請有請業務單位去瞭解這個事情瞭解那有暫停嗎?什麼時候停止的?什麼時候停止這件事情的?你這是無非就是對這些公務員再一次的霸凌讓他們緊張嗎?欸走了一個何沛山來了一個洪森漢然後繼續霸凌是什麼意思啊?第一個徐委員我不覺得這個調查就叫做霸凌啦我覺得是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
256.886 |
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258.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
大家都嚇得半死才會給我陳情信那他為什麼不打電話給你要寫陳情信給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
279.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
282.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
11月28號人事室發信告知各單位早上7點40才可以上班打卡下班卡不能超過5點20超過的要提出報告請問有沒有這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
304.578 |
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308.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
11月28號人事室寫信給全部的基層機關告訴大家呢7點40以後才能夠打上班卡下班卡不可以超過5點20超過的必須要提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
332.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那也不知道是什麼樣的報告是要送單純的加班申請呢還是說呢又會被抓去罵而且這個是沒有法源依據的要求這樣合理嗎所以呢呃陳情仁表示勞動部發展署各分署如果真心要改為什麼要從調查基層開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
353.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
372.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那部長你可以說明一下就是說第一個人事是因為現在告訴我不知道好沒關係那你們是不是要回去調查有沒有發這封信這封信是誰發的如果有發的話是不是要檢討我會來了解而且因為我今天這個陳情信他分兩個部分嘛同一個人寫的前面一件事情已經被證實了確實有這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
374.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
398.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以後面他講到的人事事發的這個信那我個人也覺得可能性非常的高我不覺得這個陳情仁他是稀滿的他是有框片的我覺得可能性非常的高所以我可以說明就是說我認為人事事可能他是基於他想要去了解現在現存的一些樣態所以想要去這個相關的動作是為了這件事情但是調查的方法規劃的不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
399.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
欸可是你看謝易榮他當初是怎麼樣的他也意思是告訴你說我要讓你加班但是呢你不能你一定要上下班時間卡要打對嘛但那個人他就只好呢上班的時候打卡下班的時候打卡但他繼續加班啊那所以說你們現在這樣子告知各單位說你7點40打上班卡下班卡不能超過5點20那跟當初謝易榮有什麼兩樣你沒有徹底性的去解決加班的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對於怎麼樣降低同仁們不必要的加班這樣的負擔其實我們當然會來一樣會來做檢討那我會來跟人事室這邊討論就是說如果真的需要去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
444.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
459.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
其實這個人事單位下面的一些目前不管是加班的狀況或者是他如果需要了解的話怎麼找到一個比較合宜的方法我覺得這是在調查方法上面的問題呃我不覺得這個事情一定是上工作這個就是跟這個謝宇榮一樣我不覺得這是不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
461.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
475.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這是真的不等價的事情啦我覺得但是很多的基層同仁覺得新的部長上來之後你口口聲聲說要幫大家從勞權上面去做考量但是你所做的事情呢除了留下你的電話之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
476.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
494.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所謂同仁還是要實名制的調查大家還是不敢說真話這是現在的基層同仁他們所告訴我們的狀態你先不要回答我因為我還有其他的問題要問你現在就是謝宜蓉的事情現在要再做檢討報告嗎對不對要再進一步做調查報告嗎對不對重啟調查來我給你一些線索請你針對這幾個人去做調查來 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
500.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
517.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個所謂的霸凌他不只是一個謝宜蓉的霸凌他是謝宜蓉們你要知道這樣子的一個霸凌他不可能是一個人就能夠完成的他其實是有一個集團包含了主任秘書陶竹苗的就業服務副分署長監察院國家人權委員會的教育交流組的組長還有勞動力發展署的外勞管理署的專門委員他們都曾經在 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
528.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
534.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
勞動部的北分署裡面所以呢我我不一一講因為我時間到了那這個報告我會再交給勞動部你們可以看到這個案情上面包含是壓榨同仁然後考積打70分然後呢收受政府補助單位提供的禮品壓榨同仁去寫出國考察報告還幫他自己去寫個人的碩士論文 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
551.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
556.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
甚至呢去盯著女性這個可能有涉及到性騷擾的問題還有呢這個要求同仁集資買萬寶龍的鋼筆送給政次要求中午12點站在電梯門口抓誰先離開去吃飯怎麼會有這麼幼稚的人那他後來就離開他覺得這邊很無聊就離開去那個監察院然後呢這個勞動力發展署的外勞管理組的專委 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
580.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
604.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
在外勞科長期間用公文打罵同仁內部投訴但遭到吃案蔡孟良去袒護他因為他們曾經是組長跟副組長的關係然後呢追查吹哨者所以我要講的是你今天作為部長你要調查的不只是謝宜蓉還有包括很多1234我現在已經有正式的發 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
605.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
617.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
公文給你們喔這個是我發公文給你們請你們要針對其他的部分一起調查因為公務人員上下署裡面在做這些霸凌的越來越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
618.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
639.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
徐委員我這邊讓我做一點說明好不好我們有收到你辦公室來的公文我有收到了這事情有交辦給相關的業務單位也進入到程序裡面處理可是我想講因為這涉及到很多的個案我真的覺得我們在這邊不不宜針對這些個案的細節做過多的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
643.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
667.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為裡面我也看到有幾位其實他離開勞動部的時間真的蠻久了蠻久又怎樣我的意思是說你要但你說他是謝怡榮們就是說蠻久又怎樣我在外交部的提的三個霸凌案有的還是重啟調查的林佳龍部長也說他願意重啟調查徐委員我想我要說的是這些每一個案子我們都會我們都會想要把它查清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
668.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
670.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那多久會查清楚? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
670.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
670.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
七天? |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
670.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
683.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
卓榮泰部長說調查一併都是七天內,可以嗎?我們會把它查清楚但是我自己覺得在查清楚前先不宜做標籤化的這樣子的敘述 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
687.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
714.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
如果查出來不是如陳前說的這樣其實這對於這些裡面很多的同仁也是不公平但我們會查清楚我們一定會查清楚但在查清楚前我真的不覺得我們要做標籤化的敘述這是我擔心的事情我真的擔心這件事情因為我有看到這些敘述但如果現在就要做標籤化的敘述的話如果查出來真的不是這樣的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
715.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
718.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那如果所有的人都像你這樣說的話那這些案子所有的東西都會被大事化小小事化 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
736.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
758.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
過去所有的暴力案件都是因為這樣所以才關關相護的過去所有的案件都是因為我們就是發一個公文過去然後私下之後呢大家就覺得說哎呀沒有啦這個都是像我之前在外交部我們以前都在外交國防委員會之前有一個案子就是洛杉磯的案子他是被一個女生被性騷擾的然後呢最後結果是什麼就私下去講說有這件事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
759.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
777.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
私下講了之後怎麼樣私下講了之後就說因為那個女生呢他聽不太懂中文啊所以這個不是故意的不是故意的利益良善就過去了這一次事件發生之後才說那個女生才看不下去說希望重啟調查林佳龍部長才說好他願意重啟調查因為有心事證然後那個人呢他現在就離那個當時幫忙護航的人他現在也離職了 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
780.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
786.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
是確定有這件事情嗎所以如果我們今天沒有把這件事情都攤開來講的話你如果到時候確認沒有這件事情你當然大可以你發新聞稿也好你大聲疾呼也好你都可以還他一個公道但過去就是因為我們什麼事情對於公務人員的加害我們都是默默的把他偷偷給你一個公文然後呢就無聲無息了所以才有這麼多的公務人員的霸凌事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
805.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
808.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
現在有公務人員願意出來希望我們幫他發聲我所現在講的每一個案子喔包含我在外交部喔我講國教署喔講海科會喔包含速發部今天正次今天那個速發部的正次他公開道歉他就是有罵別人混蛋 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
823.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
847.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以我今天我所講的這些東西我都有先查證過所以你不要挑戰我說我今天沒有查證我就有人給我一個資料好像我就隨便拿出來講我都已經先分析過先了解過有沒有發生類似的事情徐委員我想向你表達的是我們要挑戰你這些案件我們都會進入程序來好好的面對跟調查跟處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
849.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
876.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我其實在看到你們來你的辦公室來含公文的時候我也希望能不能夠因為你辦公室給我能不能提供給我們更多人事實地務的資訊因為我希望能夠有更多人事因為我們要好好調查其實是需要很多人事實地務的證據我會再提供給你啊但是要在我今天質詢完畢之後啊對如果可以的話可以提供給我更多人事實地務的證據我們才能夠好好處理這件事情但我要說的還是是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
877.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
897.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我知道你的意思但我必須要先把這件事公開之後我才能確保你不會吃案嘛因為我不敢相信任何一個部長了嘛對吧即便我跟你過去是在同一個委員會同事我也不敢去相信公務人員不會再吃案所以我必須得今天先公開出來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
898.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
914.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我才敢把所有東西交給你請你去調查因為7天之後你給我什麼東西我才能去評估你們到底有沒有好好調查呀因為你的辦公室的文來到我的辦公室以後我也看過我可以跟你說絕對不會吃案我可以跟你絕對不會吃案所以你現在只要告訴我說你要多久時間之內可以給我們一個答覆我們在這些資訊證據之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
921.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
929.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
絕對不會吃蛋但我要跟局委員表達我們也需要更多的資訊因為我收到的訊息就像你你這上面呈現的這些內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
930.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
954.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
謝謝錫瑋 |
| IVOD_ID |
157818 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157818 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-12 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-04T13:07:57+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-04T13:23:50+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |