| IVOD_ID |
15779 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15779 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-01T08:30:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-01T12:24:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:53:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2dc4feebff739bc37a99e01fa654b137933be8d109af184be491ea552bac7586615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長邱國正、經濟部次長報告「國防自主政策推動具體成效暨未來目標」，併請國家科學及技術委員會列席，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:29 - 12:24:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1801.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1804.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
報告委員會：初期委員：時人與主法定人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1812.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1833.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議一事錄,時經中華民國113年3月28日星期四上午9時1分至11時16分,地點紅樓301會議室,出席委員沈伯陽等10人,列席委員黃國昌等11人,列席人員外交部政務次長田中光及所屬人員, |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1834.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1861.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
行政院主席總處、專門委員黃子涵．主席王釗及委員定語．報告事項一、宣讀上次會議意思錄決定確定．二、邀請外交部部長報告美國2024年大選過程．對我國及印太地區之衝擊及影響．並備質詢。．政務次長田中光報告．委員林楚英等13人質詢．均由政務次長田中光．拉丁美洲及加德比海斯師長鄭麗晨．北美師師長王良玉．國際合作及經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1863.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1892.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
事務司司長林玉萍、理事事務局局長何振緩及財團法人臺灣民主基金會執行長黃玉玲等即席答覆。決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及宣達結束二委員所提口頭及書面質詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊請外交部與二周內已書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會委員令指定起限者從其鎖定三委員陳永康及羅志強等二人所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1893.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1916.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
3.處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議,衛交部主管預算提出書面報告後,使得動資等試案。決定以上試案報告完略,統一動資並提報院會。討論事項,處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議,衛交部主管預算凍結案等二案。決議以上二案處理完略,統一動資並提報院會。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1922.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1927.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏、錯誤或需要更正之處?若沒有,我們議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀報告事項邀請國防部部長邱國正、經濟部次長報告．國防自主政策推動具體成效暨未來目標．併請國家科學及技術委員會列席．並備質詢。．宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1951.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1957.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們現在介紹在場委員首先介紹陳永康委員黃仁委員沈博洋委員介紹與會的官員國防部邱國正邱部長副參謀總長執行官鄭榮峰上將 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1984.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2011.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
楊基榮常務次長全民防衛動員署白結榮白署長總督察長市李兆銘李總督察長政務辦公室廖建新廖主任政治作戰局陳玉琳陳局長軍備局林文翔林局長主計局謝祺賢謝局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2014.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2028.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
軍醫局蔡建松、蔡局長戰略規劃司李士強、李司長資源規劃司鄧克雄、鄧司長法律事務司沈世維、沈司長整評司苗慧芬、苗司長國防採購事趙雅萍、趙主任人事參謀次長事劉佩智、劉次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2044.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2048.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
情報參謀次長嚴有賢、嚴次長作戰及計劃參謀次長陳文新、陳次長後勤參謀次長陳道輝、陳次長通信電子資訊參謀次長盧建忠、盧次長訓練參謀次長張俊智、張次長陸軍司令部陳建義參謀長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2073.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2086.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
海軍司令部邱俊榮參謀長．空軍司令部曹敬平曹參謀長．後備指揮部肖淵權肖參謀長．憲兵指揮部呂正芳呂參謀長．陸軍後勤指揮部劉清薰劉參謀長．資通電軍指揮部陳俊良陳參謀長． |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2101.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2110.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
軍事情報局第一處鄧敦仁鄧處長電訊發展情報處吳勇言吳處長國家中山科學研究院張忠誠張院長以及經濟部林全能林次長產業發展署周宇新周副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2131.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2138.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
國營事業管理司胡文忠胡司長：能源署李軍理李副署長國家科學及技術委員會工程技術研究發展處李志鵬李處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2159.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2166.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
本日會議請國防部及經濟部報告國防自主政策推動具體成效暨未來目標．並備質詢首先邀請國防部邱部長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2182.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2199.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
主席、各位委員今天應邀到大院委員會來進行專案報告也承蒙各位委員對於國防安全的關切跟指導再次表達誠實的謝意我們國防部按照國防法來前瞻未來作戰需求跟科技的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2200.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2216.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
也推動各項先進武器裝備的研製．而且透過政府跟民間來合作．藉由國機國造、國艦國造．無人機、地面裝備以及精準武器等這些建案．來帶動產業發展．來建立國內供應鏈．來逐步達成國防自主的目標． |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2221.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2230.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這篇報告請我們軍備局的局長就國防自主推動具體成效還有未來的目標向各位委員實施報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2239.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2260.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
召委各位委員好軍備局局長報告國防自主政策推動具體成效暨未來目標專案報告一前言依據國防法第22條自主研發為獲得武器裝備之優先策略整合經濟部、國科會及國防部等各部會結合國內產業力量推動先進武器裝備研製帶動國防產業發展達成滿足建軍備戰需求及創造產業經濟效益雙贏目標二 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2268.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2280.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
國防科技依先進科技研究依國軍聯合戰力規劃前章科技發展趨勢結合國科會及台灣大學、成功大學等七大學研中心離去國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2282.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2306.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
科研能量逐步突破關鍵技術推動武器裝備、自主研發、自重點帶基建、戰甲車、無人機及飛彈研製等關鍵技術。2、軍民通用科技中國院申請行政院科學技術發展基金運用於功力電子、智慧化基層製造及動力外骨骼等三項軍民通用科技研發計劃案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2307.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2311.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
於110年至112年投入經費3.8億元．並將成果計轉於民間企業．促進產業投資41件．投資金額約7.2億元．創造產業化的效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2324.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2346.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
三、重要武器研製依據五年兵力整建計畫完成國機國造、國艦國造﹐地面裝備及不對稱作戰等建案﹐落實國防自主與四山產制﹐使國防資源發揮最大效益﹐提升整體戰力及確保國家安全。一、國機國造為強化制空作戰能力﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2347.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2375.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
國機國造以新式高校機為起始由中科院與漢翔公司合作產製全案生產66架110年迄今已完成27架交軍並將於115年完成全數交裝本案促進國內航太產業加入軍軍航彩供應鏈逐步推動後續各型軍機研發奠定國機國造研發技術能量及擴大航空產業規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2378.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2406.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
2.國艦國造國艦國造採長期分批的策略執行各型軍艦建造計畫其中新型兩棲船路運輸艦、新型救難艦、高效能艦艇、新一代輕型巡航艦、快速布雷艇及潛艦等6案均由中科院負責戰系裝備研製船體則由臺船、隆德及中興公司分別製造 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2406.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2419.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
目前各造艦案均依其成計劃．產至交軍或值我國自主造艦能量．提升海軍水面及水下作戰能力．立面裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2421.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2429.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
①自100年起由軍備局生產製造中心第20油廠研發生產CM32、33裝部戰鬥車378輛、CM34裝部戰鬥車305輛與於112年全數產製交軍,另研製105公里輪型戰車與於112年10月完成出勤作戰測評,後續規劃建案量產。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2448.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2459.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
為提升軍種兼增部隊搜索警戒及機動作戰能力．研發具備輕巧活快特性之徵收戰術輪車．計劃在113年10月通過出行作戰測評．滿足軍種作戰需求。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2468.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2480.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
為強化部隊精準作戰能力,108年起研製輕重型狙擊槍,其中輕型狙擊槍已全速量產交軍,重型狙擊槍已完成作戰測評,預於113年底完成製剿,替1122新式戰鬥步槍搭配進戰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2489.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2506.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
內紅點瞄準鏡及雷子器提升快速接戰能力於112年11月通過初期作戰測評令提升人員戰場生存能力112年底完成新一代抗彈板研發可抵抗中共5.8公里鋼芯彈的威脅後續規劃量產膠軍是不對稱作戰不對稱戰力國防部一無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2515.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2538.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
參考烏俄戰爭無人機發揮不對稱的作戰效益．國防部依軍種作戰需求．由中科院結合國內產業能量執行騰雲無人機等五型軍規無人機研發及量產．除機敏技術外．80%的產值市商產制．依建案規劃分年產制． |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2540.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2550.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
軍用商規無人機由經濟部整合國內無人機的產業能量．開發陸用型無人機等六型機．帶動國內無人機產業發展。關五二軍種武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2555.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2576.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
國防部依海空戰力提升計劃嚴格督管中科院111至115年執行9型軍準飛彈量產軍醫騎乘管制執行籌建所需的武器裝備兼顧戰力的提升與貫徹國防自主的政策必利國防資源發揮最大效益確保國家安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2578.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2589.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
4.國防產業發展與推動1.國防產業發展條例自110年6月起實施目前已公告列管軍品清單計717項並採多元推廣方式鼓勵國內的廠商加入國防產業供應鏈。繼今舉辦12場次的說明會,計1160家次的廠商參加。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2601.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2611.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
國防部受理國內廠商升頂級別認證作業．已核發了12家廠商89張合格證．另上載平件作業中的有13家廠商．68項類管軍品。2.國防資源事商 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2617.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2644.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
即武器裝備獲得、武器裝備維持及一般性軍品．一般性的軍需品等三大面向．秉持國內產商有能力供應．不向外採購原則推動．統計國軍不具機敏性、非核心能量的項目．釋出民間承接108至112年每年釋商的軍額．均達千億元以上．有助提升國防自主實力及促進產業發展動能． |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2646.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2668.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
三、工業合作由行政院整合經濟部、外交部及國防部、跨部會合作．並向外購武器裝備時執行工業合作．引進關鍵技術、落實技術移轉．促進國防產業升級與發展．包含建立F16緊急維修中心及高速船舶設計與製程優化等21案 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2672.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2696.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
五、未來目標一、擴大科技投資引領產業轉型結合國科會學員中心的能量國防部提出各項專業計畫整合國內大學各領域專家發展尖端研究突破技術瓶頸促使國防科技升級並帶動相關的產業的轉型二、整合居民能量提升雙贏 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2697.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2713.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
提升雙效價值、除去與新一代的戰機與整體造艦計畫、分年規劃等長期國防需求引領各大學、研究機構及產業分工合作投入先進科技及國防武器研發製造 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2715.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2735.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
藉整合學研機構與民間技術能量．前瞻未來作戰型態與國防科技發展趨勢．提升整體科研實力．落實國防自主創造產業效益．在國防自主政策指導下．軍備局生產製造中心及中科院．均能達成自主研發產製之目標． |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2737.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2749.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
以國防需求帶動相關產業參與．使基建、無人機及地面載具等研製需求形成供應鏈．製造民間產業的效益。6. |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2749.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2751.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
國防部持續於《國防法》22條推動國防自主 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2753.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2765.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
多使武器裝備自演自製展望未來．國防部將整合各部會．場觀學界及民間資源能量．共同建構國防帶動產業．產業支持國防之雙重效益．報告完畢 敬請指導接著請經濟部林次長進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2790.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2805.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
主席、各位委員、大家早以下經濟部就國防自主政策推動具體成果及未來目標進行專案報告首先就推動背景進行說明一、政府將國防產業列為五加二產業創新計畫之一同時行政院於107年8月21日合訂國防產業發展方案透過發展國防產業帶動經濟整體的產業技術的升級 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2818.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2841.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
2、行政院亦於110年5月21日合訂六大核心戰略產業推動方案．在5加2產業創新基礎上打造六大核心戰略產業．其中包括推動國防及戰略產業3、配合上述政策目標本部朝向軍民整合國防及戰略產業的發展．達成支援國防戰力提升及產業升級的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2843.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2860.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
相關的一個推動的成效跟具體的情形說明如下一、國防航帶產業高較機自研自製的推動現況一、配合高較機試商及落實國產化政策本部已推動漢翔公司與國內136家業者簽署委託製造合約並累計金額達新台幣111.7億元高較機國產化比率達55% |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2872.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2892.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
2、漢翔公司自110年至112年12月已完成累計27架量產的交機,依據於115年底完成66架全數交機。3、本部自109年起即提供主題式研發補助資源,協助國內業者建立高較機機身結構系統件與發動機模組件的關鍵製程,打造國機國造的自主供應鏈。 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2898.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2919.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
二、F16維修中心推動的現況一、未落實國防自主政策．行政院責成經濟部及國防部共同選定漢祥公司為F16行基維修中心的主辦廠商．並於109年8月28日接牌成立漢祥公司．亦與國防部完成F16行基維修中心開放式企業之簽約 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2920.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2948.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
2、配合空軍所盤點F-16維修中心第一階段高故障、高單價長焦起司197項的品項以及第二階段機隊維持全能量175品項總計372項本部至111年起即提供研發補助及工業合作資源協助維修中心21家參與廠商建立發動機、航電系統等維修技術及測試機台的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2949.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2961.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
3.截至目前已完成368項維修能量籌建,剩餘4項亦將於本年6月全數完成。針對空軍需求,維修中心現已完成自主維修能量達98% |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2963.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2984.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
三、軍用商規無人機的推動現況一、配合國防部三類五款軍用商規無人機需求．由本部及國防部共同臨選國內具系統能量之廠商．並於111年12月21日公告軍用商規無人機系統整合主導廠商的臨選結果．八家業者或選主導廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2986.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3010.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
②本部亦針對上述廠商提供研發補助的資源﹐協助進行原型機的開發﹐打造整機無錄製零組件與產品之無人機﹐並成功協助廠商於112年10月完成國防部的交機驗收。③為推動無人機產業發展﹐本部於112年12月11日加藝雅創中心正式揭牌成立無人機產業﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3012.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3029.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
發展專案辦公室整合政府相關單位提供產業支援服務．促進產業聚落發展．推動國際合作等工作。2.國防船艦產業1.國防部與海洋委員會海巡署提出192艘艦艇造艦需求．採購金額達1,163億元．全數由國內造船業者成造．截至113年3月底已完成累計112艘． |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3039.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3048.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
2.本部109年期即透過研發輔助的支援協助業者建立穩定翼、船艦用指揮鏈路系統整合推進器、罰控系統等船艦裝備的系統提升我國自主技術能量,逐步建立國防產業供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3067.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3074.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
3.本部對國防產業之未來的推動目標1.國防產業列為我國5加2產業創新計劃及六大核心戰略產業之一未來將結合五大信賴產業之軍工產業加速提升我國國防自主及不對稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3083.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3112.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
作戰的能力,同時在軍民整合的國防及戰略核心產業上由政府扮演領頭羊的角色．提升企業參與與研發的動力．帶動民間相關產業的發展．達到國防經濟加成的一個效果。．二,未落實國產化政策．本部已完成軍機、軍艦及無人載具供應鏈能量的盤點作業．後續配合國防部、中科院及海發中心等單位需求．運用研發補助的資源． |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3115.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3121.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
開發軍機系統艦F-16型機自主維修及產製的能量軍民用無人機關鍵技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3122.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3123.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
以上報告,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3157.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3174.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
現在開始詢答本會委員10加2分鐘非本會委員8分鐘10點30分發言登記截止如果有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右視詢答情形進行處理現在請黃仁委員上台諮詢有請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3186.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3210.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
請邱部長華為好部長這一段時間辛苦了我們想本席想聚焦在這個地方你看一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3212.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3241.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
因為有關於治安與保防的問題關於這張照片根據軍事營區安全維護條例條文規定與軍營內從事測量、錄影、攝影、描繪技術或其他的偵查行為是受到規範的本期想問部長這張照片是否合乎規範那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3242.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3260.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
媒體指出這張家庭私人照片是否來自民眾爆料這就是涉及到部隊治安與保防本席有三個問題希望國軍能調查清楚這個問題第一個誰拍了這張家庭的私人照 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3262.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3272.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
誰拿到了這張家庭的私人照片?誰留出了這張家庭的私人照片?這是修觀、國安的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3277.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3305.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
國防部長你回答陳柱剛一開頭在外面我也跟很多媒體記者講了我表達個人很大的一個歉意因為這件事情造成一個紛紛擾擾尤其對於我們服務的單位在立案調查等等我們全力配合那剛委員所指的這個也是在當中之一所以誰拍這張照片當然那天我也疏忽到了越嘉仁還是剛生沒多久大家看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3316.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3330.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這也是在立案調查當中的一環,所以這個地方我雖然了解,但我沒有辦法跟委員做那麼長時間的說明,因為他調查的結果那才是真正一個比較牢靠的,所以這一點要請各位要原諒。 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3331.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3352.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
好今天我提到這個三個問題原因在哪裡當然這是你個人家庭私人的立場我們亦以尊重跟孫子跟孩子跟媳婦在自己的辦公室裡面來照個相做一個紀念當然這是一個人之常情但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3354.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3371.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個跟資安跟保防流露到別人的手中裡面即在做加以外露所以這個部分我們覺得質疑內鬥是不是已經產生了那我想請國防部調查後這個像 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3373.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3401.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
本辦公室說明這個狀況的拍攝還有外泄的狀況如何請你給我一份報告跟委員報告我全力配合另外我要特別表達這件事情的確一個很大的疏忽我沒有什麼怨懟我剛剛跟委員報告都很坦誠所以剛剛委員所指示的查完以後會跟您做回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3402.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3427.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好我剛剛第一句話講了說你辛苦了原因就在這裡裡面有貓咪所以我們想說麻煩你們調查一份給我好不好那有關於國防自主政策推動具體成效及未來目標專案的報告我就以目前來講國際裝備在相同條件下優先外購還是優先採購自產的裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3430.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3454.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那其實在這樣的一個我國國防自主最大的障礙就是極為有限的資源下到底在用外購還是要自己研發生產這個比例拿捏得非常難過當然國防自主當然是我們一直想要做的就是我們想要自主國造國機國國建 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3457.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3482.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
但大家都知道我們現在外部的力量外部的壓力部長你能回答外部的壓力是什麼那另外這個外部的壓力簡單就是說我們有很多不得不外購的考量由於政治環境特殊我們對外採購先進行裝備的困難非常非常的高一旦 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3483.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3499.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
外國表達願意賣武器給我們的時候若不採取我們又對外採購這個軍事的一個產生的一個合作會產生一個信任那甚至有些人說的更直接認為說我們向美國採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3502.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3521.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
就是好像取得了一個保護傘所以即使外國意願不高但是不得不應聲吞下所以本席起立我們當年成功自演的經國號戰機後來因為美國突然同意將F16出售給我國 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3523.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3542.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
不得不放棄部分資產的採購改將資源移為外購導致經國號原本預計生產250架後減產為130架而導致不少技術人才外流所以本席才問這個問題雖然邱部長在之前說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3547.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3554.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
國軍則不會停止研發,也不會重蹈當年對美國採購F16而停止。 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3577.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3596.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那剛委員也講到講到還採購採購是沒有辦法停的因為什麼剛委員也講了有些東西到目前為止不管精密的程度或某些方面或真的是不太容易或者甚至於要花很大的成本接到小東西而這個用量就很少的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3597.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3623.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們在這一方面當然就朝向採購方面來進行但採購又會有很多問題那剛剛委員會也很清楚我們外交的處境跟別國之間這種邦交都有關聯但是可能有產生弊端的那我們一定要防不能讓這個當中的居中人員做一個轉介以後變一個商業的企圖我們不能讓他達成最後就剛剛委員講到了我們這研發絕對不會停 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3626.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3643.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
因為國防工作、國軍戰略就完全靠我們自己以往的經驗我們真的是技術了所以這一回為什麼有講說不管出教機、未來還有很多國艦、海軍用的國艦、海巡用的我們都朝向自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3644.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3668.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
就算已經獲得了,我們還要繼續的演進去,這個絕對不會錯的。所以我們不能因此停止,好不好?不會,絕對不會。就是研發IDF上這個經國戰機的覆測,那當然相同的條件之下,政府到底能不能抵抗外來的壓力,採購自產的裝備,支持國防自主,希望,本是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3668.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3688.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
國防部能真的有這個決心那當然我們國防自主最大的缺點是投入成本未必能回收但最大的優點是就是一個研發研製成功技術可以獲得原性勇英高交機是我國近期自行研發資產的軍用飛機 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3692.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3714.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
勇英的研發技術必然有相當程度可以沿用至後續國機國造的項目所以本席相信勇英之後一定還有其他的國機國造的計畫這個後續的計畫是IDF新一代先進防疫型的戰機還是粗教機呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3715.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3731.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我跟委員報告,這都包含在裡面,剛剛委員講到了以往的經驗,產能有了以後就代表這個資源所以剛剛委員已經一語道破,我們也這樣做了,這研發根本不會停,那當初IDF未來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3731.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3732.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我現在不能定定哪一種型 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3747.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3771.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們幾乎同步在做的因為我們深切了解講說這個如果能力的獲得以後不光是人員資源或軟體方面的一個資源的一個將來運用還有硬體也是跟我們將來不管做研發都是很好的一個幫助所以我們這絕對不會停止但未來要做哪一種東西都是依據現有的在經濟在研發甚至會產生新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3775.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3791.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那另外本席剛剛提到馬總經理野心勃勃的似乎初教期和IDF想要做但如果初教期本席還可以理解但畢竟T34C |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3793.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3821.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
出教期已經是服役將近40年確實面臨汰換但出教期技術成績相當低但IDF是否以五代機為目標我國光是發動機技術要達標可能就要極大這個花大很大的資源跟延長的時間但出教期和IDF要同時進行中科院或漢翔有足夠的能量嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3823.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3836.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
這個案子當初我們談了很多次,我們列入我們加拿大整建的一個規劃,這是選項之一我現在沒有辦法跟委員講得很明顯,哪一樣要哪一樣不要,有這個能力我們要一一克服 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3837.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3863.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
遇到困難是必然的但我們有經驗最後一個問題漢祥之前曾表示我國IDF經國戰機自治率為48%但永英高教機自治率達55%那本來新式初級教練機自治率由達到75%而IDF更有機會達到5%本席認為瞭解IDF的95%是如何推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3864.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3892.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
然後剩下確定無法自行研發的5%是什麼我跟委員報告他既然能夠定出這個自治率啊都是累積以往的經驗所以我們可以看來講說哎如果在這個這國防自主要累積經驗獲得資源國內的能量會越來越高他是按照這個以往經驗推估出來我覺得是合理的可以看出來將來自治也要好或者這個啊從這個我們有以往經驗獲得以後的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3893.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3897.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
既然IDF將近達到5%,你認為支持嗎?我認為它是推估出來的,我絕對會予以支持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3911.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3914.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
今天就是因為國防自主政策推動的具體成效所以既然你們都已經評估IDF可以繼續而且可以達到5% |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3931.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3933.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
接下來請沈博洋委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3971.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3975.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
謝謝主席,那有請邱部長還有這個國科會的這個李處長,謝謝請邱部長還有國科會處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3988.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4008.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
部長好,因為今天最主要是問國防自主,不過因為剛剛黃仁委員問到這一個營區的問題,所以我想突然想到一件事情,就是在於說,就是現在軍方對於這個公務的電腦等等之類的,一定對於這個速發部、速衛部所稱的這個自通危害產品應該是不能使用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4008.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4028.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
但我想問的就是說一般就是在露營的時候或者說一般的官兵他們的手機私人的手機當然是不能帶進去嘛那他們私人手機在還沒帶進去之前可能是放在一個固定的地方那他們私人手機現在針對這些資安危害的產品是我們有辦法是禁止他們使用還是沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4028.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4053.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
有辦法,因為我們現在有所會議,它就算有所謂,一定放在外面支付櫃裡面,這是第一個。第二個,如果我們發覺它有的話,我們會做一個嚴審。所以很多管道,包含各級的分層負責,在這方面管控是絕對嚴格。但有時候它弄完以後出去,我不推責任,所以剛才講這個問題,我們也要追查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4054.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4073.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
因為這是事前預防的部分所以我覺得可能在這一個方面可能還要再加強因為剛剛才突然想到這件事情那接下來我想要問這一個就是因為這一次我們在講這個國防自主的報告裡面有提到就是要整合國歌會、經濟部等等各部會的一個協作 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4074.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4089.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
例如以國造衛星來講以中科院因為有飛彈相關的技術所以它可以做一些導引又或者說像國科會國科會這邊有太空中心衛星等等之類的工研院應該也會有一些AI相關的可以整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4090.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4106.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所以聽起來它是一個跨領域應該是一個目前我們的人才看起來也是足夠然後也在各部會但我這邊唯一想問的問題就是因為在企業界我們都知道就在跨部會的合作的時候如果 因為譬如說每一個人都本來都是待在自己的部門那很容易會有本位主義啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4107.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4121.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所以想問說一些不是說資深的而是說一些專業的人才目前有沒有在不管是在國科會這邊還是在國防部這邊有沒有規劃讓他們在譬如說不同的部會待一陣子之後然後再回來有沒有這樣的一些計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4122.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4149.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
目前我了解講說協調合作是必要的至於未來長期的做一個交流對於人事的一個交流目前我們還沒有想做但我們只跟國防部有關的單位有這種交流的但一般其他部會到目前沒有但通力合作這是一直在進行的我就跟委員舉個例子當初這個全民防衛動員署它成立原因在哪裡就裡面都有各部會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4150.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4178.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
現在可以做到講每次都來做一個叫一個同一個辦公室來共同辦公這樣的話會快那未來如果人員交流的話那可能就不光是國防部或某個部門他們意願的問題這可能跟整個人事方面都會要通盤檢討但我們也期望如此每個部會員都有一個某一些專業人員但目前的克服方法就是多做協調已經看一些成果了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4179.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4198.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
感謝,現在有共同辦公的部分,這應該是蠻重要的。接下來希望會有更多的一些交流,是因為有時候有些部門他們可能對國防部不夠了解。接下來我想要問的就是洪準,我們現在有火箭彈,這算是非常重要的一個研發,成本又不會太高, |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4201.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4225.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
廣發到現在這個後備旅或者基層的這個士兵那因為呢以這個現在國防部的這個角度來看我們要有這一個紅准的火箭彈基本上應該就是要實兵然後實彈然後實地那這樣才可以發揮功效那所以我想個別問一下我想先問一下實兵的部分就是因為現在後備旅的基幹按照之前的新聞報導後備旅的基幹招募上好像是有點比較困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4226.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4244.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那現在除了招募困難之外那如果說現在要廣泛的能夠實兵讓這些人都可以訓練是所有人都可以訓練還是說特定階層的訓練然後訓練的時程大概是多久現在有沒有這方面的計畫我出國跟委員報告這通常訓練哪種裝備他要在未來他要擔任的職務來訓練的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4248.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4270.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這個大概沒有辦法全部普遍當然我們期望能夠有就跟步槍一樣每一個不管你有什麼職務一定有設計過但洪水火箭彈的話因為它針對的目標不同那是不是每一個人他人手一具不見得但我不能講因此就沒有訓練為什麼因為如果一旦要用到了可能旁邊有什麼狀況他拿到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4271.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4286.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
讓任何人都能夠操作那訓練的這個頻次或者科目時數一定會有所調整這初步跟委員做說明啊另外剛剛有關於問到講說哪些這個後備啊什麼的能夠用 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4287.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4311.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
後備也在用但他有沒有實在這我要給他確定一下他也會練這個操作操作原因就剛剛跟委員報告現在哪個用不知道雖然你的專業是火箭彈兵但是呢可能旁邊一有什麼狀況以後旁邊的兵員幫助他或者繼續他的任務的話拿起來也能夠用就所謂的一專多能啊部隊員一專多能的著眼在這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4312.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4329.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
感谢 因為現在石兵的部分因為當初這個武器的研發就是希望能夠比較廣泛的使用嘛因為它的成本畢竟中科院做出來可以成本弄得比較低所以想知道說他們現在到底有多少人是能夠使用然後以及有沒有這方面的規劃而已但接下來我想問第二個就是實彈的部分因為我看這個相關的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4330.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4330.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4350.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4375.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
通常一個戰備存量是基本要考慮的有基本存量在同時不能講說存滿了再做訓練所以它一定有個比例但比例多寡我要確定各單位可能他們是有定的依據但決定的是以戰備為考量戰備存量當中在儲存的時候訓練它可能少部分要拿來做訓練加上這個配比多寡看它彈種研發的狀況產量的狀況來做一個確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4379.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4403.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那我問這個問題很大的一個原因是因為假設我們要抓一個訓練的數量那因為我們要希望能夠實地嘛那實地現在因為一些火炮訓練場蠻常被抗議的那國軍又常講就是我在這邊寫著仗在哪裡打部隊在哪裡訓嘛所以就是說現在就是說彈藥儲存還有以及相關的安全措施還有以及就是說如果我們是要儲存在一個有一定距離的地方這個相關目前的規劃是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4404.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4429.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我跟委員報告就是我們目前遇到很現實的問題也是很困難的問題我目前克服的方法是怎麼樣的多協調溝通跟一般民間要用的話產生噪音等等先告知要協調第二個就是我們自己選擇地點跟安排的時間我們要做哪裡或許一天當中本來就一個單位去今天也打明天另外一個單位又打 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4430.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4436.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
一天當中有很多單位在,但我們把這個梯式間隔分開,他在打當中,後面就已經在訓,也不會浪費這個時間,也不會浪費我們的場地運用的評斷數,也盡量不造成民間的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4456.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4456.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4475.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4503.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
或者他單位裡要用的以他為主但不見得在這個營區在哪個地點來做放置絕對要考量加上如果運用起來不會產生不方便所以也有很多可以舉個簡單例子很多不管是飛彈啊等等不見得在營區這個單位是用飛彈的單位但這個彈不見得在裡面但是未來什麼因為他的任務一有狀況一有他可能就要出去的那出去地點那個附近 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4504.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4505.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
接下來我想問一下中科院 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4527.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4541.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
中科院這一邊 因為我最近一直在看中科院相關的一些報告我想先問一個問題就是說第一個是監察院之前在講說這一個說打破這一個禁用計畫訂定高齡人員不認主管職的一個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4543.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4558.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
現在因為在111跟112年我們可以看到這邊圈起來的192那說真的這個我是覺得蠻重創中科院的一個形象那因為這是112年大概二月的時候大概也過了一年想問一下目前改進的這個措施方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4559.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4583.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
委員好我是中科院院長感謝監察院他的指導報告委員我們高齡回聘的任用完全是依據中高年的促進就業促進法的法規來做當然到目前為止因為監察院認為說這些高齡回聘不適合當主管所以說經過監察院指導之後高齡回聘委員回歸於專業那主管就 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4584.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4600.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
不再任用了那到目前為止因為我的火炸藥是一個非常重要的一個工作為了安全起見只有一位目前還留在化學所長他是高齡迴避其他的高齡都已經回歸了回歸到專業區不再擔任主管一職當然是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4601.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4601.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4617.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4631.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我們就是他擔任領導幹部最主要是給他的權利來做指導這主要是基於這個考量那其他的當然如果說你沒有給他一個主觀的職位他沒有辦法對部署出來做專業指導但是經財人這樣這個說法我們就遵照經財人的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4634.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4662.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
因為我們為了要培育後勁所以他主要認為單任主管會擋到後勁並沒有說我的方法不對因為即使所以我要回歸專業不擔任主管大概是這樣並沒有說違法或者說是因為海工戰力提升的整個提高大家的產值增加到6倍所以當時也是因應為什麼把高齡會員留下來就要進入他專業來趕快促進整個任務的執行大概是這個所以之前沒有這個問題是這兩年發生的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4663.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4663.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4684.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4708.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
謝謝那最後一個問題也是一樣是監察院的報告還有一點點時間就是說這一個旋轉門的一個規定就當時大概有36家得標的廠商跟中科院這一個限職的員工是配偶或一等親的這個件數目前金額是一個19.6億元那這個當然其實說真的也是一個不合宜的事情那也一樣的問題就在於說那目前這個改進的方向大概是什麼樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4709.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4738.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
國務委員報告當然這是因為大概是階層調查是兩年前的事情那我們完全做了改進舉個例我們中科院所有人員都要立意迴避當時因為地地是院長、董事長在部分的並沒有完全立定我到112年年底把這個規定重新調整所有人必須要立意迴避我們的一級主管、一級副主管不得他的二等星級配偶不得參與全院的國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4739.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4754.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那二級主管一等親籍配偶不得參與該所該單位的公安誰要是違反都有明確的規定來處分這些都大幅度的更正了不好意思主席再給我20秒就是說還有一個相關的問題就可能我們之後再來討論就是說那如果這些廠商比如說他本來有這個親屬關係的他離開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4762.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4786.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那離開了之後我們現在有因為他一離開我們馬上又跟這個廠商又回去再繼續跟中科院合作這方面有沒有一些數據有的這個我們對於現職人員跟離開的人員離開三年內不得待念五年內他親自重複的工作這是規定那真正的是剛才委員講的是屬於利益迴避這部分我們中科院的公務人員及院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4787.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4788.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4821.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4823.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢羅美玲議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4847.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4848.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
國防自主政策推動具體成效暨未來目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4865.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4869.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這幾年我們確實在國機國造跟國建國造這部分我們有看到一些具體的成績甚至2022年我們中科院還成為臺灣首家登入國際權威機構就是瑞典斯德哥爾摩和平研究所的軍工企業百強中的第60名所以這個是很讓國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4892.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4893.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
國防自主政策推動具體成效暨未來目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4908.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4914.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
南韓跟台灣一樣有著地緣政治的衝突所以很早很早以前南韓就已經意識到不能夠長期的仰賴國外所以他要強化國家自我防衛的能力所以韓國在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4930.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4933.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
國防自主跟研發軍備這個方面長期以來一直都是這個南韓很重要的這個策略那尤其這幾年我們發現他們在軍售市場上成為這個國際上一個非常耀眼的一顆星星那去年像這個韓國他也得到這個斯德哥爾摩 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4950.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4977.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
國際和平研究所的全球前十大軍售大國就是由買家轉換為賣家的這個角色那當然我們看到說南韓在這個部分有非常卓越的這個成績那我也想請教部長想請教中科院我們對於國防產業的未來我們的走向跟策略是什麼是除了自給自足之外我們還有沒有其他的策略跟期待請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4978.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5004.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我跟委員報告,陳宏光委員所講的,工業技術是很重要的,我們國家處境的緣故,所以最近可以看到南韓,南韓一開頭不管是各種發展,有些是當初也是跟我們一樣,從一點點規模甚至與外購完全靠這個來。國防自主不光是南韓,我們最重要各國只要有能力,都期望能夠有國防自主。 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5005.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5027.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
所以目前我們累積的經驗以後可以發掘成效不易但南韓他的累積經驗我們拿過來以後對我們來講也是一個很大的進步而且也當初有些他從我們這邊學過去的所以我們可以發掘從我們這邊學過去的對不光是以敵為師以各國各專業為師這都是有必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5027.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5045.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
至於未來我們如何發展,我想還持續一樣要按照國防自主的一個概念,多方面去考驗,一方面研發,再方面外購,還有從其他國家獲得比我們更好的做法,我們一樣要當一個範例來做學習。 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5048.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5068.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
所以韓國當然是很值得我們學習的一個國家尤其部長你剛才提到說他有些還是跟我國來做學習可是他現在卻是超越了台灣那之前我有看到中科院有說了一句話他就是說我們行有餘力的話將創業以來所累積的科技經驗評估要轉化為民生用途機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5074.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5100.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
然後呢協助技術轉移提升產業的能量讓民間有能力到國際市場大世界盃像這個大世界盃是這個可以明確的說一下說未來我們的方向是什麼嗎請問院長我很坦白的講啊就任何一樣東西你假如你有這個產品你有這個能力做對不對那發言人家做比我更好我跟他合作這樣的話技術數會提升提升原因在哪裡把這個市場擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5101.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5119.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
但我們這個軍事方面的,我們不能講變成一個好像軍事上的國家,但這個也是個未來,要研發要付那麼多成本,但怎麼樣來獲得不講利益,回饋以後可以研發其他更多的,讓國防自主的成效更好,這方法絕對要用的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5120.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5137.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
至於目前怎麼樣規劃的話,我想請中委院長跟委員做簡單的說明。謝謝委員,其實最重要一句話,就是我要輔導國內的廠商成為世界各國大廠的供應鏈,才能進軍國際市場。我的意思是說,因為我們如果在國內,我們自己廠商來做採購,我覺得這還不夠。 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5143.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5157.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們輔導就是希望他我舉個例子現在最成熟的例子就是我們當初用公約公和公和的美元點我們計轉了中國人計轉愛國者的紫天線那現在已經甚至都成功了將來我把這個技術啊我帶領的輔導給國內界我要成為 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5161.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5168.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以院長的意思是說對於這些可能一些機組零件等等我們會成為美國的供應鏈嗎?是這樣子的意思嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5182.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5192.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
會到系統是系統甚至於模組這方面就是我們的方向不光是零件因為零件企圖性比較小整個系統會比較讓他們有一個整體化的觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5198.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5218.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這個部分因為韓國很值得我們去參考這部分的話可能就是要邀請國防部跟中科院來做這個研究那院長請回那下一個議題我想請教部長就是其實剛剛我們的沈伯陽委員其實有提到有提到所謂的這個國軍的這個木林計畫那像從 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5225.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5228.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
2023年到2024年今年我們看到從屏東也好基隆也好花蓮台東其實都有發生這個在地的這個民眾呢抗議的一些事件那像我們不管是自製的這個武器或是從國外軍購的這些軍備也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5245.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5261.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
其實進來說其實還是需要去做一些訓練跟設計可是我們發現說其實近年來其實有很多的在地的居民其實都會有所謂的這個抗議那這個部分的話我們要如何解決呢因為我們其實我們都有一些睦鄰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5262.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5262.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5282.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5304.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
陳榮光委員講到,我們遇到的困難是唯獨在我們中央民國臺灣會遇到的。國家你要訓練的話是必要,但是會干擾到民眾,這也是事實。所以國訓在這幾年進了很大的努力,不管從噪音捕場,只要這個地方有造成民眾困擾的,或者離地的,我們都做一個怎麼樣來捕場,來補救。 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5306.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5327.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
但我們要除了這以外,我們自己的作為有很大的調整。以前一天要打幾點到幾點,我們把它給限縮了。但是未來我沒有辦法完全滿足它當地的需要。本來這個錢只能夠做一個公務方面,但現在有人要求我家裏面受到的傷害也應該要有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5328.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5344.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
但這都有法規而且這法規定的不是國防部來定是跟各地方政府或者相關部門噪音啊等等防制的這些部門都已經有一個合理的法規譬如說我這個錢要發到地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5344.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5369.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
一定是一個鄉鎮事工所,它不是給縣政府,這也是從以前經營的累積,那給你怎麼用,以前還有一個方法,只能夠用在公務方面,所以居民也會抱怨,公務不外乎有道路、路燈、水溝等等,他們也希望分到各家,也有這個案子分到各家,但分到各家叫輪啦, |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5370.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5388.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
因為這個預算不是一次下﹖是,你講到做點的部長,很多人說輪了10年還輪不到﹖不是,因為他這個方法也是地方他定的吧,我們他有討論要一次補償,你用在哪一邊,或者要分到各戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5389.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5412.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
他一定有個時間的壓力,這五年就如此,分完才能改成下一個方法這也是一個規定,我們假如說可以克服,中途要怎麼調找一個合理的方法,而且沒有違法的話,國防部當然樂見主要講不要造成民間的怨懟,我們期望就是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5413.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5429.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
其實部長應該也講了好幾個重點除了剛剛你所提到的話一定要用輪的方式所以很多人都一直等不到這個補償也都有那再來還有一點就是說那民眾其實還有反映過一個問題就是說就像剛剛部長所講的很多我們都是經費啦我們就下放給這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5434.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5453.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
反映這些問題其實也是要經過鄉鎮公所不是直接就可以跟軍方來做這個反映所以輾轉之下其實是真的是耗時礦日所以他們就覺得說這個深宿的這個管道其實也是非常的漫長又要經過鄉鎮公所所以也有提到就是說我們有沒有辦法就是說在這些訓練場 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5455.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5456.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
反映問題這部分他們也覺得說非常的曠日廢時這有沒有辦法就是說能夠及時的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5471.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5497.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
國防委員報告地方我們在各地的不管指揮部也好一定有跟民間溝通一個管道至於屏東那邊在哪裡我想說不管是後盃指揮部或者三軍聯軍基地它絕對有這個窗口是第一個第二個民眾他們期望一下不要那麼煩雜要兜攏到什麼縣市政府或者一個鄉鎮事工所在兜但我跟委員報告他提出個人的問題來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5499.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5519.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
都一個普遍性的都跟地方有關所以假如說五個同樣的內岸的問題我們為什麼發給經過鄉鎮事工所一整個變成一個大的共同一解決以後這五戶通通解決了我沒有辦法一個一個來一個一個來的話那為什麼他可以我不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5520.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5546.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
會有這個問題我們以前用很多方法不斷在努力但是民眾我們不能講要怪罪他所求不斷也有原因所以基本上我跟委員報告我們有認定他們要怎麼樣但我們一定是一個原則希望大家能夠協助我們軍方訓練正常運作我們要改進但我也期望地方他們能夠不能講叫他配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5547.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5568.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
最起碼得到一個合理的一個回饋這我們一直在努力做的我想說你剛剛委員講說要不個人去跟你那我變成一個深入管道那就很多很多我就不知道哪個先後來處理一處理那他可以但我為什麼那麼慢跟委員報經驗累積通牌要檢討的 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5569.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5597.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
是 我是覺得說這個睦鄰政策還是真的是要通盤的檢討尤其是說現在民眾其實對於生活品質的這個要求跟自我的這個提升我想這個投訴以後越來越多我想軍方不得不留意那往後要怎麼跟在地居民互動我想應該這部分要去做演繹對 OK我也會請各家地方的這個軍事單位給他確認哪幾個理因或者哪有問題一定要讓他知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5597.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5599.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
接下來請王帝宇委員上台質詢請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5632.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5659.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
部長早我先跟您請教一下今年的漢光40號今年的漢光演習是先電腦兵推再實兵驗證我們好像前年還去年反過來那時候遇到疫情的關係我是不是可以請教一下今年有沒有跟以往不同的科目能不能讓納稅人了解就是說我們每一年不同的想定不同的科目大概都會根據台海的局勢做判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5660.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5663.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
今年的漢光40號有沒有新的科目? |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5677.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5691.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
是設定的是10年後?都有我們今天設定的是當下的情況還是未來的情況?就針對當下的我們今天設定的是當下的情況以前有未來5年的裝備如何?提醒會怎麼樣?預判 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5692.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5721.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
但後來也有改變講說就當下明年他可能會出來部長方方便透露今年有沒有什麼新的科目表示說我們國防部我們軍中現在重視這個議題我們把他納進去來看看我們整個兵推的狀況有沒有什麼改進的方法國防委員報告這一定會有但這個科目來源或者想哪邊強化這都算一個改變但是改變不是我覺得重要的重要了現在環境的變遷我們有一個科目加進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5722.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5749.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
今年有沒有把中國的Roller Boat他們那個滾裝貨輪的因為以往油鹽轉站這是中國的設定的模式嘛那我們會看中國的大量的製造他的滾裝貨輪那一台上面直接裝甲車人員就上去了長得像民間的船他沒動手你還不能先動他我們在漢光裡面有沒有把這個放到我們設想的狀況裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5749.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5776.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我認為這是必然的因為任何一個敵情的變化也就我們要設想定一個依據所以它一有變化我們當然會做個調整但是調整哪一個項目怎麼調整它的強度那就另外我們要做討論那今年的韓光我們的EWE我們現在一年期的EWE第一批已經下部隊了那個新訓結束了上次在兩棟山嶼那邊我看他們已經完訓了這一次有沒有用到他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5777.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5806.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
他只要有參與的話應該有參與到一些科目他只要他的職務有參與的那也一樣有參與了就算比較不熟因為我們在前兩年有特別把後備戰力把它編整我印象是編了一個砲兵營把它放到漢光38號還是39號來做驗證那我們今年不管是後備戰力或者我們現在新式的訓練或者是我們這一個義務役從四個月恢復為原來一年期 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5806.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5824.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
第一次的這個新訓已經下部隊的這一次漢光裡面他們有沒有什麼角色分兩個一個是電腦兵推一個實兵假如說他在這個實兵當中他的職務而這個部隊就要做一個實兵操演的單位的話他必然要參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5825.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5853.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那至於以往講好像他這個有參與或刻意動員一個單位這也是可以做但要刻意動員的話也要符合我們曾經你說刻意就是我們把後備軍人召集之後召集一個單位就設定他要參加漢光這是一個方法有些人漢光定了以後剛好這個時候有一個單位那今年有沒有這個情形把後備單獨編整一個單位應該也是會有那個白署長我們今年有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5854.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5866.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
有,我們每年的漢光實名演習都有配合同心的動員演習這沒有問題每年都在做今天動一個營還多少人我再跟你們報告但是我們逐年都調整增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5867.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5892.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
上一次動員的我看是砲兵兵科的都有都有各兵科都有你先請問我再請教部長那今年有軍來觀摩的有沒有新增加一些盟友啦自由民主聯盟的成員來觀察我們的觀摩我們的這個漢光演習我跟你們講以往這個觀摩等等都是在交流的單手之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5892.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5916.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那今年有什麼人數或者什麼變更我會拍得到因為美國從NDA還有一些法案通過之後法律上是允許他們的現役將領可以來台灣實質上當然這個還是保持低調有或沒有我們也不在那邊證實但我的意思是說今年的漢光40號有沒有印太司令部因為美軍現在4月10號 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5918.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5940.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
美國跟日本的安保條約可能會有改變那改成四星上將的指揮權直接放在日本包含峽下的沖繩阿等等那今年我們的漢光這個40號剛好是它在印太地區不管是編組啦指揮權啦各方面美軍其實有做了相當大的更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5941.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5962.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
今年有沒有印太司令部,他們的法律是允許的,印太司令部有沒有派現役的人來?我跟委員報告,每年漢光要派什麼人來,之前都有協調過,一定會有協調所以他派哪些人來,我們只要知道了,都會跟委員報告你不方便講,你可以不講了,我們要知道時下會有委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5966.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5980.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
2plus2不管是美日、日本、印度、美國、印度、菲律賓、日本、美國這些高峰會裡面的前三名主題都有台海安全和平穩定那都在講我們家的事情不太可能跟我們家都毫無聯繫嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5982.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6001.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那部隊就是你有想定你有計畫透過演練去確認計畫可不可行再進行修正他會有個過程所以漢光對台灣來講是年度重要的軍演那周邊國家關切的是台海和平穩定南海東海等等都在我們周邊所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6002.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6012.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
光用邏輯來想如果沒有這樣的觀摩跟互相的聯繫的話那是極度的空洞也危險所以我才會就叫部長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6013.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6034.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
今年的漢光40號因為印太司令部透過美國日本的元首高峰會要把駐日美軍從三星他是中將啦把他提升到四星上將等等這個變動有沒有跟我們今年漢光40號他派人來的觀摩的規模內容等等有所不同有沒有不一樣的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6035.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6057.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
他一個原則不會變,哪個單位人數多一點少一點但是會有啦,但是細節你們還要再談時間也差不多了,其實應該以部隊作業來講我了解國軍其實蠻科學的,都會蠻提早就作業的不可能到現在還沒作業,如果不方便說我尊重,但是應該要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6057.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6058.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
經理會不會特別高? |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6071.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6093.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高規模、層級會不會比以往特別高 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6100.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6122.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們在三年多前大概四年前我們通過了國防產業促進條例在這個條例裡面我們為了建構我們的國防產業事實上國防產業對經濟是很重要的之前不久美國一個報告因為俄烏戰爭因為各地才發現戰備軍需不足無人載具的應用等等等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6122.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6140.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以他們推估到2027年到2029年全球的國防產業產值是遠高過電動汽車這個數字就很驚人所以臺灣中小企業國內的精密機械我們的IT我們的晶片臺灣在經濟上有我們的強項 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6142.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6155.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
所以我們在當時推動國防產業促進條例的時候裡面要建構我們的國防產業供應鏈那要建構要先看它的能耐你的能耐經過軍品驗證這些品項驗證了那未來我們採購是以驗證過的廠商為優先採購這是一套邏輯當時法的邏輯 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6164.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6190.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
這個法還有一些施行細則通過那麼久了目前我們公告的列管軍品清單有717項還在審議當中的有156項也就這些品項未來通過了我不管是陸海空軍我要採購這樣的零組件甲乙丙級的供應商他有驗證的我們就優先跟他採購那本席當時在質詢有提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6191.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6200.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
盡量讓通過驗證的廠商多幾家你不能讓一家去壟斷你因為這個驗證通過我只能跟他買如果就一家一家驗證過他講10塊就10塊講100塊就100塊的話對買方也就對我們國軍是不利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6206.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6226.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
所以驗證它的程度達標了它的品質也達標了這個螺絲這個車頁這個砲管它達標了我們希望多幾家這樣才會產生雖然是符合軍品驗證的廠商但是它達標的廠商夠多也可以達到一定的競爭否則國防部會被綁死了所以現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6228.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6238.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我們看到國防部核發就是說我們公告的公告要列管的軍品有717項結果你們現在廠商合格證的總共是12加89張部長你會不會擔心這些拿到合格證的就單一廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6245.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6246.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
所以剛剛委員講的齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6263.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6285.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
加數越多,我們可以選擇的機率就...當然那是目前,這是工作持續在進行的據我目前了解,要參與國防工業共同發展這些加數不多,已經有一千多家了 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6286.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6307.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
一千多家,我們現在只發12張而已參加說明會的有一千多家次的來參加是品項還是?我們在說明說來參與的來參與的一千多家但參與代表他們也有這個興趣有意願嘛然後我按照這個程序來一步一步,盡量讓他們能夠參與我提醒部長,我們現在大概對媒採購是由戰規司 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6309.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6335.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
武器國造是用軍備局我一直提醒軍備局就是在這個驗證上當然品質各方面的能力還有資安一定要達標但是另外一面我們要盡量去輔導同樣一個品項最好多幾家達標那多幾家達標之後才會產生競爭品質才會提升價格才會制衡否則我們只能跟他買我們現在規定只能跟他買又只有他達標 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6337.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6337.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6361.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6389.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
是,報委員,我是資源室司長,跟大家跟委員報告,其實我們透過我們的全球資訊網,還有我們舉辦廠商說明會,我們都是積極地去鼓勵,去鼓勵廠商來升級認證,但是因為我們的國防,那個列管軍品,它是屬於關鍵模組以上的一個軍品,所以它並,關鍵模組以下,它另外有一個管道來採用,有列管的才有走這條路,列管以下的都採購了,關鍵模組以上的廠商, |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6389.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6392.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我是建議,不然我最後一句話建議就是說,第一個,我們要站在國軍最大的利益去思考,我們是一個buyer,買方 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6413.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6438.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
賣方越競爭對我們是越好所以軍民採購列管以上的走這個國防產業促進條例的相關認證以下的當然就公開招標那認證除了能力啦我還知道資安一定要放進去能力以外怎麼樣讓他有這樣的競爭關係這是一個政策的思考另外當我們對外採購的時候我們現在很多都採軍售有的採商售 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6439.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6464.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
一般而以我們國防部的利益為優先如果美方供應他走軍售因為卡到二屋戰爭一直delay的時候你要去看他那些品項我同樣的價格一樣的品質怎麼樣確保國軍得到比較好的包含交貨時間包含品質要給綜合的規劃而不是死板板綁在那裡所以我們國軍自己綁手綁腳得利的是賣方而不是買方這讓部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6466.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6467.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
接下來請徐巧欣委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6501.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6502.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
謝謝主席,我想邱部長請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6513.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6541.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
主席委員好委員好很高興看到你今天在備詢談上面銷價上班為了國家付出是值得肯定的那我首先呢想要請問一下今天呢王宏威委員他有發一個新聞稿他談到呢中科院過去在採購飛彈原物料的時候那承攬外購的一家公司叫做豐益公司他所提供的原料過濾酸胺來自中國大陸有這樣的疑似情形請問一下可不可以說明一下有沒有這樣的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6541.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6560.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我跟委員講那是請中科院您了解是吧是請說來中科院確實有這個情況確實有這個情況我們在110年的公案111年他交貨的時候9月我們就發現他發現之後把他停存三年嘛對不對停存三年但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6561.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6575.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
還有按外案就是被停權以後他同一個地址疑似親屬關係的九鼎聯合有限公司還有他有同一位負責人的永冠硬財有限公司是不是還有繼續承攬國防部的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6578.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6594.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
委員好,我是國防採購室主任,是的,我們有清查,一個是九鼎,一個是勇冠,確實在從去年到今年目前都有十幾個案子成包那瘋疫被停權三年之後,是不是也繼續承攬國防部的案子? |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6595.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6615.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們清查有的在停權之後有期外知道了那部長我這邊想要問說為什麼我們會讓有國安疑慮的廠商持續承攬國防部的生意因為其實類似的狀況不是只有在國防部在其他很多的部會裡面都有狀況就比如說有一家A廠商那他有問題之後被停權了 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6616.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6617.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那這個到底是無法可管呢還是我們在整個確認過程當中太輕忽了部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6633.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6648.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我跟委員講無法可管不至於但在管理的方法可能當然又有遺漏就是說已經限制他怎麼還會流進來不管他假借了什麼名義所以這我要我請你們了解不了解好不好你們要精進檢討來請簡單說明後面還有題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6651.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6652.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
你們有沒有黑名單嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6665.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6668.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
中科院有管制是以後才要做還是過去本來就應該做但卻沒有做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6690.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6702.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
過去沒有但是我們會落實所以未來拜託在這方面應該要精進檢討改善要落實好嗎我後面有其他的題目中科院請先回那部長我想要問最近這個週末發生這個有談到中國大陸的這個無人機那屢次進入我們金門營區來拍攝過去那又傳出了這個二膽島遭空拍機射入的這個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6716.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6740.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我們可以看一下過去幾次其實我大概先列了6次或許不止這是新聞有報導的大陸無人機騷擾我們國家離島的記錄可以看到過去有一陣子是用石頭丟但後來我們整個國防部精進之後開始我們有相關的作為但我們先看一下這次的事件地點在二膽島影片前面是一艘兩棲登陸艇送了彈藥上岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6743.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6752.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
臺階旁邊放的是彈藥箱 士兵正在從軍艦上面搬彈藥下來那請問為什麼當下沒有做任何的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6753.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6763.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
所以我跟委員報告,剛才委員前面講的經驗累積,我們訂出一個很明確的方法對所以這我也徹底檢討,嚴格講起來就是訓練不足訓練不足對,我們會繼續講話因為呢,好,這個金門這邊的說法本來是說因為遠距拍攝逆光所以沒有發現部長您會認同這樣子的一個說法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6775.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6776.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我非常肯定部長現在的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6791.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6808.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
因為這個說法跟我們看過影片來講有落差啊因為至少有兩名我們的士兵他有抬頭望向無人機的這個方位所以您要告訴我們說他們都不知道的話這個是大家比較難接受的所以訓練不足是一個問題因為其實部長您已經過去多次有談到這樣的一個狀況比如2023年10月你說反制無人軍有規定有預約的話信號彈該警告這邊彈藥就出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6818.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6841.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
今年3月7號您也談到了以前開槍開炮是第一集要反制現在無人機也來了我們把它打掉我們不是第一集它才是第一集我們把界定看得很清楚包含航空海航無人機無人艦有實體就要處理處理原則還是一樣該警告喊話打信號彈讓對方知道我們已經注意到這個要有應對的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6841.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6863.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那我們要問的是按照規定的處置作為無人機防禦系統的建安作業112年貨裝以後我們有優先配附外島區的防用那這個外島都有配干擾槍部署也可以並用7.62公里以下的輕兵器實行試劇之內的應處請問在這點上面我們這次沒有做到要如何改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6864.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6889.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
所以各位報告,通盤檢討還是訓練不足他有沒有,哪怕沒有發,我也都跟他講你要練一個替代的一個方案就目的要達到,讓他空拍機不能再往上空所以我今天昨天接到的狀況,事實上當天啦我聽到經防部的回應,就剛剛陳國光委員講的嘛我就起疑,我想說就算這個陽光照 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6890.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6905.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
他無人機不是定點在這個地方啊所以我就再得到一個多加一個要更加強化的做法就是不能光講不練我也派國防部陸軍司令部全程把他盯到 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6906.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6925.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這個訓練的一個步調,按照我們的要求,如果編組,如果沒有干擾牆,何況它有,如果有,為什麼要,你不見得要現場用,或者哪一邊可以來做一個支持的,這個信號彈不見得每一個人通通有,但你一發覺的時候,一通報,這個信號彈就會出去,這個動作是不夠熟練的,我們要強化。 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6929.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6945.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這部分一定要強化而且要訓練因為最後雖然他沒有造成我們實質上說有對方有攻擊可是這個影片出去之後對方用這種嘲諷跟羞辱的方式對待我們的國軍我們看了之後也是非常看不下去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6946.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6960.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
甚至我們的士兵離開那彈藥箱就放在旁邊也沒有任何人去做處理這個事情也是相當的離譜所以我們要要求國防部在我們的這些外導針對無人機來騷擾的過程當中整個SOP整個訓練要非常的清楚因為這個從過去去年開始到現在已經非常多次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6968.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6983.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那發生了這樣子到第6次竟然我們的處理還是這種情況我相信國人看到都會覺得非常的訝異所以我想請部長再進一步做一下說明我們未來在這些教育訓練檢討上面你們有什麼樣的方針可以解決這樣子的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6984.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7007.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我跟委員報告以往經驗累積我已經做一個很具體的說明就是你狀況設定訓練是依據狀況來設定以後就是什麼狀況由第一線他們的以往經驗來設定不是往後方來講像大家在前線有無人機這一定狀況這有狀況以後我要怎麼處理處理文牌有分工聯長怎麼做副聯長怎麼做排長怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7008.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7024.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我們家都多有規定了但我覺得推給他們這個問題就是癥結所在有規定他們沒有照規定或沒有解決所以我在這方面我跟委員保證也跟我們各單位我會去努力把這個一定給弄到定位為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7025.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7035.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
好 這部分一定要加油喔那我們另外一個問題是先前在不斷追查之下我們才發現號稱天下第一營的憲兵211營他的邊線比只有67.8%那即便未來提到72.2%離我們一般期待的85%還是少了很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7044.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7065.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
如果再扣掉休假官兵數字的話那又不一樣再加上我們的戰鬥部隊的邊線比可能會更少那就你們所提供的勤務表的平均數字裡面一個情況就是現有兵力每個連不到70人那我們如果再扣掉實際上還有百分之10的人請假等等的不在營內這樣的人數是足夠的嗎部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7067.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7091.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我們就針對這案子也要核算一個人不得超過每天三班每一班一站有三兩歇六所以當初犯的錯誤在哪裡他們也變一個彈性調整因為今天要去涉及所以我們留少部分人來做站位兵造成的那這幾天我也特別在指揮所裡面或者在會議桌裡我一直跟他們強調任務是不可改變的 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7092.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7112.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
規定你不要去變更,在這個做法當中,做法有兩項,第一個我們逼人補充給他應急,第二個你補充不要造成其他問題,從假單位調幾個單位到乙單位來,乙單位解決,假單位問題又來這就是我接下來要問的事情,就是說我們的憲兵營是不是要從5600人擴編到10600人 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7115.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7138.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
目前還沒有那個上次那個賴世保委員質詢的時候國防部的回應說是這樣子的對沒有錯但是他分年的對對對這個是最後我們要分碼號那縣指部呢這個應該新增的兵員是以義務役為主嘛但是因應擴編的人力我們是不是也調了很多的志願的役的官兵去協助會不會發生剛才部長您講的這個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7140.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7148.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
就是說我們要因應新的義務役然後我們的憲兵擴編所以我們必須從包含是261到264總共4個營要新增嘛那我們可能從包含332、211、229跟239、238等等他們也有很重要的勤務啊去調我們的領導幹部去協助這個新的營區或新的連的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7163.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7168.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那如果這樣做的話我們現在就連總統府的211邊線比都只有62%連站哨跟辦業務的人都不夠那請問這樣子我們擴編之後的人力我們現在規劃要怎麼樣補齊才能在不影響原本業務還有呢是其他營的業務的狀況之下那維持整個憲兵的運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7186.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7204.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
是,我跟委員報告,所以剛才我已經分臉了在遇到什麼問題以後不要解決也不能造成其他問題的這個狀況下這種原則下,我們就要一步一步來落實剛剛您講的,由這個人員調配調配我也特別講,你不要把這個東牆補西牆的概念造成其他問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7205.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7221.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們有經驗,像這幾年做後備部隊調整,原本第一區後備指揮部是沒有兵員的,或者很少做兵員,我們也要陸續調整今年調整四個,明年調整四個,分年也可以調整到定位,絕對把握原則,不會把問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7224.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7248.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
為了補救這個問題造成其他問題這我們一定要強化最後問一下因為我們憲兵只有台北的5個營兵他們有這個支領戰鬥家級我們5個營而已那其他的憲兵隊的部分沒有這個縫擠那未來有沒有考慮做提升這個一定要考慮一定要考慮嗎那簡單回答一下好不好戰鬥家級部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7249.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7266.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
目前我們現在就是確實如委員所說就這個五個營有戰鬥佳績那我們其他線是憲兵隊的部分目前是沒有佳績那我們也在進取在爭取中好我們也會來支持好不好因為憲兵工作也相當的辛苦那如果未來要支應整個的擴編的話那相對應的戰鬥佳績該給的應該要給謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7279.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7290.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
現在先宣告目前我們收到臨時提案一案 待會兒林楚英委員質詢結束以後進行處理處理完畢休息五分鐘我們現在請洪森漢委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7308.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7309.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
邱國正、經濟部次長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7322.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7345.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
部長我對於今天還是依舊出席委員會還是必須跟你表達我自己是很敬佩的那我們該做的事情我們還是盡量的我們把它給做好那我今天有幾個問題是關於這個權動上面的問題我想先請教這個部長喔部長如果我們有一個這個經過4個月訓練的訓練兵這個叫小明好了齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7351.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7376.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那他退伍後他發展了這些在民間的專長他可能考取了醫護的資格他也可能獲得了速發部的這個資通安全署的通訊安全認證或者他可能考取了民航局無人機的證照那也有可能他考到了勞動部的重型機械操作的證照那部長我想請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7377.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7388.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
在我們要把這個小民叫召回部隊的時候他會有機會進到衛生牌還是知通店等民間專長對應的後備單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7390.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7412.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
還是因為他是4個月的軍事訓練役所以他只能是步槍兵所以我跟委員報告這已經我們也發生這個問題了我們要找教召的人來之前有設幾個條件這批教召我們期望磨練什麼職務從上面知道他都有他的專長但這個專長在退伍之前舔的舔了以後就移到這個後備地區我們來查 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7415.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7441.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
但是現在剛委員講的沒有錯,很多專長或者證照,他退伍了以後才獲得的。我們的問題出來講,他獲得有發的單位,我們當然不能要求他告知我們,但我們現在發生這個問題,我們要跟他協調。他有這個專長了,也告知我們,或者我們主動去問,這一批你們這個地方有沒有受過這個無人機操作這個證照的人,要有的話, |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7442.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7444.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們把人召回營裡面請他填一個紙本 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7457.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7473.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們才有辦法去更新他的專長這我要插個嘴很抱歉我要跟委員說他不管他專長符合不符合他都要填右翼在哪裡要核對這當然可能造成誤會下我知道你那麼清楚你還叫我填幹什麼一樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7475.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7499.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
部長,我要說的事情是說現在我們其實對於叫招錢如何掌握他的專長這件事情看起來我們並沒有一個非常非常系統性的去處理這個問題那導致於可能很多他明明有一個新的專長的人他也有辦法可以貢獻他的專長到我們後備單位的人他沒有辦法,所以他這次入營裡面他還是必須當步槍兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7501.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7524.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
可是大家知道其實我們包括我們現在的新式教召一次是14天啊其實每一次你可能在社會上面工作你可能開一家小店你可能一個微型企業你要應付教召回去像大家看到新式教召13天我甚至可能這個店面前面大家都要供說我14天不好意思我不得已我必須供休 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7526.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7552.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那一個這樣子他可能四次叫招最多四次叫招我們可能就白白浪費了這一次叫招了就浪費了甚至也浪費了他的14天啊是委員講這個很有道理浪費了他的14天然後你要他無法發揮專長然後他去做了這個再去做一次步槍兵你也知道這不是他該做的或他適合做的事情這樣子等於是互相在浪費這個機會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7554.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7568.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以我今天是想跟你討論說我們怎麼樣避免這個狀況再發生其實並不是沒有做法的我們怎麼可能每次都是要入營以後才叫你去填那張表格才知道你專場有沒有更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7570.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7588.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我們有很多資訊可以做的做法比方說現在我們在其他部會裡面可能都有相關的人才庫啊衛福部有醫護的人才庫啊這個數位部有自動安全署的人才庫啊勞動部有相關技術技能檢定的資料庫啊為什麼不能事前去對接 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7591.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7615.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
一種我可以直接事前去對接第二我甚至在叫招前多少錢的時間我能不能夠就請他能夠有一個資訊方式的回傳跟相關的回報也許他檢附他相關的證照其實這有很多的做法都可以做這件事情的可是我們是我們現在的做法坦白說我還是覺得很擔心留在遠古時代然後這個做法真的是彼此浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7616.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7631.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
支援很有限啊部長我了解委員給我一點時間啊委員意義道破了啊不會沒有辦法但是事實上我要跟委員報告目前有在做但我真的還是做不夠徹底那我現在彌補方法很簡單一個是全民防疫動員署 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7632.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7633.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
其實今天包括白首長在旁邊齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7654.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7669.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
其實對於我們後備的單位需要哪些專長我們一定是權動署最清楚嘛 對不對所以我們很清楚知道哪些專長以後他需要跟哪些部會進行他的專長去做對接這我們在事前就可以做的事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7670.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7693.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我們在事前就可以請這些部會請你提供你相關的人才資料庫的名單我們應該事前就可以一來事前跟你對接二來如果我們在叫到你來迎之前的時候我就清楚知道也許你就透過一個方式能夠回傳或者是能夠回覆你現在最厲害的專長是什麼你最有把握的專長是什麼我們其實在來迎之前就可以更新這有好幾層的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7693.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7722.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
都可以因應這個問題我知道部長現在有心要做可是如果我們有心的話我覺得我們就一次把這個整個系統給更新來而不要再一次浪費大家的時間然後我覺得這對大家都不是好事對國防部也不是好事也會讓很多人對於我們後備的準備包括全民動員防衛的準備覺得沒有信心覺得怎麼會是這樣好像這事情沒有很嚴肅被看待一樣所以我覺得我們這個裡面的事情這次部長我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7722.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7744.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們就一次把它給做好來好不好我跟委員發奇妙的說我今天就點出問題來但事實上我要跟委員報以前不是沒有做但我現在覺得做的大概不夠徹底這個是很好的一個課題而且目標很明確就要找的一來專長完全符合的我們就朝這一方面來所以怎麼樣跟哪幾個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7745.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7755.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
從委員講的不會解決不了的一定可以解決部長那多久時間我們可以把這整套做法完全更新部長報告委員龍我這個很簡單跟您報告我們所有的退伍軍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7761.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7763.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個當後備軍人前他在軍中所獲得專長都有專長證書我們都會輸入後備系統所以當我要動員他的時候這個部隊選從哪些專長哪些階級哪些軍種都是很明確這第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7779.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7794.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
所以我們是有制度在管理我一定要澄清我們的制度很完整但是我在選中過程當中我比如說他是醫療的他是一個醫師他可能是來服役只是短期服役退伍下去取得醫師高專長我軍隊又缺這個衛福部他是一個動員部會像交通部的這個無人機民航局也是個動員機關我們都有跟他聯繫我們手上也有民航局的 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7806.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7828.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這個無人機操作手的名冊當我現在要擴編無人機的部隊我不足的時候我當然會主動找部會拿名冊我再找時間跟委員報告什麼找時間我現在問你的事情是你多久時間可以照部長說的在這個方向把這個系統給校正好不是你再跟我報告啊你多久時間可以完成啊我現在問這個事情啊這個很抱歉他太激動了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7830.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7842.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我們可以立即向委員報告我們教召令大家都知道45天前即發然後有40天的時間要員聯訪就是在問他的專長市長我要打斷你還有你不是黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7845.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7862.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
如果我現在問你很簡單的問題很簡單部長都已經答應說這個事情該改了多久時間可以改完成你不是什麼時候跟我報告的問題啊我們今天是在委員會的詢答但是你要馬上講幾天幾個月我真的講不出來三個月可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7863.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7872.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
可以沒有問題三個月我們把這套系統把它改完我們不要再浪費這些叫招或被招集來的時間三個月內沒有問題部長可以嗎對不對可以沒有問題啊審判單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7876.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7894.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這是有依據的吧部長接下來我想問我們現在當然有這個對美採購這個MQ-9的大型的無人機這當然是我們現在目前這個從2026年會開始這個起接裝然後包括它其實一台我們看到單價是高達五千多萬美元 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7896.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7918.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那這種大型的無人機其實它可能會是要整個部隊或者整個團隊才能夠完善的運作所以未來如果我們在這個無人機這個包括MQ-9這個之後它如果退伍了以後包括這些飛手包括攻擊手、保修人員、資通、地面救護站的人員其實會是我們非常珍貴的人才部長同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7919.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7947.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那部長我想請教就我們現在的後備單位裡面我們有研議要來這個籌組或成立無人機專屬的後備單位嗎目前我請空心跟您說說事實上有一些可能沒辦法達目標從後備中拉回來但事實上他從軍中尤其飛行員他退了以後我們都要再找回來他可能不完全操作無人機但是他有他的工作空心你講一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7947.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7969.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
委員好 我是空軍的參謀長我們在無人機的操作部分也是跟剛剛權諾署報告的一樣未來會進行專長管制那一併納管之後依照未來在叫招的時候需求來一併的叫招我想現在先問的事情是說我們接下來有沒有在後備成立這個無人機的專屬無人機的這個團隊的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7973.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7993.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
在後備單位的話成立的需求對,有沒有這個需求應該針對他要用的單位我們看他這個量的就是可能看不同的後備單位他假設需要無人機的話那我們再用這個方式來去應用部長的意思是這樣是不是就不一定是一個專屬的無人機單位是不是在後備單位來成立一個無人機專屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7995.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7996.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
請回座,各位請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8023.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8024.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
馬文鈞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8045.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8050.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
阿蘇阿維好部長好部長上週其實也有討論過那本因為剛好發生二單島的這個無人機的事件所以我們想要再探討一下就是說在國軍目前有建制兩個干擾系統案一個是由空軍同仇建案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8066.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8088.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
目前是中科院在執行涵蓋三軍各單位的遙控無人機干擾系統另外一個就是我們之前研發失敗被監察院糾正現在是由陸軍另行巡商在統籌建案涵蓋陸海軍的無人機反制系統那我們現在想要看看因為他都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8090.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8099.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
防禦的因為主要大概都是針對這兩套的衍生大概都是針對金門那時候受到大陸無人機侵擾的一個需求雖然他的名稱有差異可是他實際上大概都是防禦民用商規型的無人機那我們現在可能就是要看一下就這兩套系統他雖然名稱不一樣可是他第一他的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8118.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8119.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
無人機反制系統的部分這個大概9億8 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8145.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8171.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
做了26套,他最大的差異在哪裡?請陸軍講簡單回應好不好?報委員我是陸軍事務副常務長,我簡單就空軍跟陸軍這兩個建制,第一個空軍他的建制主要是運用在機場,那機場他的幅員上面是相當大的,那你為什麼用在機場?當時在省預算的時候不是這麼說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8172.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8173.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
所以它只差一個徵收雷達,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8199.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8225.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
跟無人機反制系統他只插了搜索雷達,對不對?委員剛才說明他還有干擾槍另外他還有一個光電的目獲系統那那個是我們陸軍在外島沒有這個光電目獲系統所以他整個的配置上面是跟陸軍的價格和所謂的功能性是不太一樣所以你的那個光電的目獲系統價格很高,是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8227.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8252.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
因為你的功能差不多嘛你兩樣的建制的目標功能其實是差不多的可是你多了這個部分那差在你就是這兩個部分差別而已啊那它的價格差很多是嗎是包委我是空軍參謀長曹敬平我再做一點補充報告那除了委員所列出來這個幾個雷達或是光電幕或是性能範圍看起來有點不一樣之外裝備的數量也不一樣以機場來講兩個進場端點每個雷達都有四套 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8256.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8258.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
因為你現在說明的你們上一次拿一張上個禮拜到現在還沒拿過來對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8274.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8294.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
法委我們上次是用口頭說明因為比較詳細的數據我們就沒有留書面資料我們可以再去委員辦公室做仔細的說明這個是很機敏的嗎公開的預算你是很機敏的嗎它的功能就是這樣你就是多了這兩個東西可是你都是對於民用的無人機你做干擾像二檔的這個部分你會用什麼干擾槍 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8296.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8320.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
二檔的這個你會用什麼?干燒槍?是用干燒槍?拿著,那它飛到上面大家才發現,你看得到嗎?你干燒槍那時候我們在審預算的時候我們說你用干燒槍根本是不符現實的需求,因為你說看到兩公里外,你兩公里那麼小的無人機,等你飛到你的上空的時候你的干燒槍在哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8321.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8343.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這些部分我們希望大家在花這些預算的時候你一個40幾億一個10億總共加起來高達50幾億的預算你做的功能都是一樣的除了機場你說稍微有一些不一樣的包括雷達跟光天幕後系統以外我們看不出來它的差異到底在哪裡所以這個部分我們希望再提供具體的資料給本席好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8344.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8372.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
好 謝謝接下來我們要看一下的就是我們上一次我們今天討論了有很多我們的國防預算除了國防自主以外也有委員在關切就坑子口的這個訓場的部分坑子口的訓場其實在上一次的質詢的時候其實我們大概就已經有提到了其實這個預算其實是非常的不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8372.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8379.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
因為你本來高達12億的預算可是你把重要的一個部分通通把它砍掉10項你把它砍了5項 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8383.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8383.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8413.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8415.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
尤其是重要的訓練的能量全部都把它拿掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8430.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8456.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
這個部分報告委員容我向您報告第一個專管公司他的整個評估他專管公司他不會是未來未必會是這個得標的廠商那像這個案子他的專管公司跟得標的廠商就是不同的公司所以並不是說他報多少就是多少那第二個實際上也真的是因為原物料上漲的原因那第二個剛剛委員講我們把我們把原規劃的11項 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8459.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8473.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
然後區分為一二階段來實施那第一階段的部分最主要也是針對我們新戰車進來以後它的整個射擊能力上面的需求那這個如何取捨是由校準部還有兵監財保長這個部分我要打斷你 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8476.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8481.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這個部分因為我們這個訓場這個我們本來就知道我們要做什麼當時我們的目的就是要做訓練結果我們把所有的訓練項目通通拿掉了還包括一些水電的這些相關的部分它固定式靶台還有機槍射擊的陣地訓場道路的整建 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8499.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8506.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
把控台的這個教室還有電力電信管道的線路地下化工程全部都拿掉你拿來做什麼拿來做避彈屋拿來做機槍的備彈牆而且還做了水土保持工程這個水土保持工程原來本來沒有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8518.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8530.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
結果你把應該要做訓練用的項目全部都拿掉以後你現在才說今年不夠了我們的訓場能量不夠了現在我們可能要追加預算這樣子是幫 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8532.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8532.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8551.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8562.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
陸軍還有所有的設計單位所有層層把關的人都在做什麼你那時候都沒有發現要做水土保持結果水保工廠你們剛開始都沒有納在裡面這本來的訓練場裡面通通沒有做那是後來才加進去的你們把錢用在那裡你剛開始都沒有發現這個有問題嗎所以這個部分我們希望你們做一個審慎的評估跟合理的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8578.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8592.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
一個書面的資料我想後續包括你的預算的運用不然你現在做了以後連訓練都不能訓練因為你即使做好了像我們電力電信的這些你都沒有做你即使做好了它還是不能用因為就沒有電啊你的那個活動靶場你的那個靶怎麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8596.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8608.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
所以我們的預算的運用還有你在工項刪減的部分其實是有很大的問題這個部分我們希望提出一個比較具體合理的一個說明書面資料好不好會會是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8610.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8618.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
接下來我想因為這一次我們提到的是國防自主國防自主我們非常重要的有我們的國機國造有我們的國艦國造還有我們的飛彈還有現在的無人機等等其實有非常多的項目那我們現在想要討論一下就是我們的國艦國造的部分因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8633.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8651.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
準總統就是我們現任已經當選的賴清德總統他未來其實也傾向就潛艦的部分是希望可以一次把它完成不過如果對於比較專業或者我們作戰包括我們國防部所有 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8652.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8677.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
尤其是海軍未來要用的我相信大家非常清楚他必須要有作戰功能那這作戰功能到底要怎麼樣去做測試以後大家才有一個好的一個作戰裝備我想這是非常重要的在這裡我想要再反推回去因為既然要做我們就要找出其中可能需要檢討的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8678.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8705.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我想請教部長,這個案子還是絕對機密嗎?它已經解密了嗎?沒有,現在因為它已經原型艦弄好以後現在正在測試,目前它分兩個階段,一個播港,一個在海面上測試。像剛剛委員所講到,未來希望一次艦或分段艦,假如說已經定調了,但我們這個測試一定要做的,不會不會不做就直接跳過去了,一切以安全能夠作戰為主。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8706.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8710.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
因為像現在的測試大家都看到如果潛艦可以自己做出來大家都非常的高興可是因為它包裹在裡面所以大家看不到它到底實質的狀況是怎麼樣潛艦很重要的一個部分是它的一個重量控制 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8729.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8756.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
重量控制也就是說它有很多的裝備都應該要到位如果還沒有到位不管你用什麼樣的方式借的租的或者要用什麼樣的方式我不知道是用什麼去做現在的給大家看到呈現的這個樣子可是我們要再回到最源頭今天它還是一個絕對機密的案子它還沒有解密我想要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8759.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8780.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我們在最初我們有一個臺船的顧問約我們還有一個海軍的顧問約這兩個對不對一個GL公司因為這個都已經是公開在媒體上面都有看過了那SIA是海軍顧問約我想請教臺船顧問約是新華和公司他得到的標案對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8782.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8788.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我是海軍參謀長。新河河是JL在台灣的一個勞務跟其他他自己跟他的契約跟台船沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8799.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8801.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
跟台船沒有關係,我想要看一下這個新華和還有這幾家公司,它介入我們的台船,就是介入我們的台船的過問約的部分,這個公司負責人叫柴美娟,然後它有監察人叫陳清醒,董事林黎珍,董事陳希亮, |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8819.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8837.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
他還有其他相關的幾家公司﹐達華、鴻華、達鴻、遠景、安卓雲、達宇等等其實這幾家都有參與其中那這幾家裡面﹐大家可能可以看到很多重複的名字﹐負責人有郭熙、黃瓊慧﹐還有陳清醒、陳希亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8842.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8855.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
還有郭忠、郭琛等等還有林黎珍我想要讓大家看一看這個林黎珍在新華盒裡面他佔了94%因為他負責接送所有的相關的顧問當時這個介入這樣子的一個案子絕對機密的案子事實上他是必須要完全保密對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8869.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8869.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
絕對機密的案子包括廠商還有包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8885.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8889.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
今天跟他接觸的人其實他都是非常重要的更何況這個人我剛剛念的這幾家公司他裡面包括郭喜還有一個黃瓊惠黃瓊惠就是郭喜的太太還有一個陳希亮他是郭喜的外甥陳清行是郭喜的姐夫林黎珍是郭喜的太太的阿姨他就是新華和裡面佔比94%的這樣子的一個股東 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8913.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8919.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
全部都是家族然後今天得標以後他是我們的設計約的顧問結果在我們的海軍顧問約也是新華河他引進的 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8928.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8933.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
報言這可能海軍的顧問約並不是新華和只有跟GL他是GL在台灣的他們兩個契約行為我們我先簡單因為時間的關係我們會持續安排專案今天這一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8945.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8948.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
來外交國防委員會的委員其實他們過去都沒有接觸過即使他們道聽途說有些甚至在外面講了很多的話他們對這個案子完全不懂所以未來我們可以安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8960.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8963.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
專案報告甚至所有淺見的內容我們希望他們至少知道一點以後大家再來發表意見可是我現在要講的就是這個部分其實還沒有解密然後這個沒有解密可是跟這個案子關係又這麼密切的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8978.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8990.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
他不但在直播在媒體在很多的像政論節目他發表很多公開的訊息他是直接接觸的還包括他的錄音都已經被披露出來像這樣子他的身份是可以這樣子做嗎他有簽保密協定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9000.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9018.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
郭先生有簽保密協定嗎?有,我們當初在審核,我們有一個簽核程序那至於他在外面其他的這些評論的部分他可以講嗎?今天我們在監督國家預算在監督整個國家政策的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9021.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9021.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
國防部長邱國正 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9050.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9053.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
都在那裡賣軍警用品跟對岸關係這麼密切的人他來做我們絕對機密的案子還可以公開說了很多的話所以今天我想實際上關係我們沒有辦法提出很多可是如果我們的潛艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9067.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9077.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
要能夠成功,有一些弊端一定要把它清查清楚,不然對於整筆的預算還有所有它是不是會耗費掉,或者它所買的武器裝備是不是我們真正需求的,這個我們都會值得懷疑,因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9085.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9110.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我們潛艦的召集人曾經說過我們用合法非正式管道我們中華民國的海軍人才倍出建軍百年我相信海內外都有非常多的人才他們的社群關係各方面也非常的多沒有理由在整個這麼高難度的一個案子只有郭顧問一個人可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9110.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9136.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9146.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9148.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
接下來請林楚英委員上台質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9169.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9185.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
林委員好部長好部長對於您今天還是依舊來出席我們委員會本席是要為您打個氣也要為您的這個整個領導我們國防部來講我覺得這是個最好的表率面對壓力的時候面對困難的時候還是要挺身而出 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9185.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9202.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
然後在你的職位上面要持續的至少我認為目前為止就像今天的報告一樣我們的國防自主很多時候我們自己的心智要夠強不過有關於林公子案件的部分因為攸關到的是國家安全的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9203.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9232.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那麼當然本席站在國防委員會的委員的立場來說我也希望相關的單位必須要釐清因為畢竟我覺得這樣會對於整體國防來講是不是出現了一些什麼破口其實還是必須要有一些了解的那麼另外當然對於國防相關的人員當中對於所謂的保密還有安全相關的這個所謂的對於自身或者是對於國防的部分我覺得都還是要再教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9233.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9239.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
部長,之前王定宇委員曾經有提出來就是有關於憲兵特勤團的保險的狀況,那麼當時我在台下我就非常關注這個話題,原因是在於我想我們給 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9260.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9265.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
所有我們第一線甚至於說保家衛國的弟兄來講除了在該給我的心想該有的保障之外那麼也要讓他們無後顧之憂才會為國家來打拼我去特別調出了過去從2020年到2024年有關於憲兵特勤人員他們勤務編組的團體保險近五年的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9283.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9287.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
如果部長無法回答的話我想請這個負責這個業務的長官來替我回應就從2020年我們看到這個預算不斷的往前增加到2024已經相差了4倍通常保險是這樣要不就是保險危險等級的提高保險公司認為他們無法獲利或是無法負擔所以會調高保費 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9305.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9307.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
另外還有一個狀況當然就是不斷的出險也就是所謂的不斷的需要理賠那麼我想就教一下為什麼會增加到4倍是因為人員變多嗎還是發生了什麼樣的狀況請問部長知道嗎我請憲兵參謀長跟您做分 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9327.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9333.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
委員好 跟委員報告我們這個特勤的這個保險這個部分因為我們這個特勤人員有變多嗎人員沒有變多那麼過去一幾年我現在所記錄的資料從2020年到2023年李培有出現嗎都沒有嘛對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9344.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9373.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
所以如果是這樣的狀況為什麼會一再流標而流標之後是不是就提高了金額我只問這個因為時間有限我們在今年一月底的時候我們有增幅預算來做投標金額好結果還是流標對不對理由是什麼包括不願意來投標的原因是什麼有沒有去詢問我們有去詢問那大部分就是表示意願不高沒有這個意願投標 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9373.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9373.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
知道﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9398.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9404.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那有沒有去洽詢公股、航庫連台產、第一產、兆豐產、華南產、第一售、台銀售跟和庫售都不願意來標嗎?不願意為我們的國家來貢獻一點包括他們不是都有所謂政策上面需要協助嗎?有去協助嗎?還是說這是一個上下交鄉賊的狀況一再流標、一再墊高決標金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9424.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9453.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
有沒有去找過這些公股行庫這些的部分我們要再下去查一下那因為我們當初我們有問了十多家那我再去清查一下有沒有這上面這幾家的公股好沒有關係本席等一下也會到財政委員會今天剛好金管會財政部都在財政委員會我也會來幫你問本席生氣的部分是今天如果連我們第一線憲兵特勤人員的保險都保不出去的時候他們怎麼樣保家衛國 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9455.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9478.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這個其實保險只是一個小小的一個新意但是如果說今天都沒有出險但是卻說不來無利可圖好如果無利可圖的話我們就應該去找公股行庫公股行庫至少有全民的資金在這裡頭他必須要負擔國家的重責大任我建議你先找這些公股行庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9478.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9491.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
如果他們一樣say NO的話那麼我們好好的要問一下財政部要問一下金管會保險局到底發生什麼事情好嗎但是不要讓我合理的懷疑認為這是一種故意流標的方式想想看同樣的人數沒有出現可以從104萬現在墊高到371萬還流標然後招標的金額從175萬現在到506萬我知道物價會飛漲但是這是不是漲得太離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9510.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9512.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
所以部長你怎麼看? |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9513.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9516.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
本席調調的重點就是保險確實他會做一些風險評估經過精算之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9542.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9562.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
他會來決定我們的保險金額但是都沒有出現人員沒有增加這中間我合理的必須懷疑一定發生了一些事情那我也不希望這些業者們要有社會良心要有企業的ESG那本席因為來自財政委員會過去我都待在財政委員會當中我會緊追這個事情因為我總覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9567.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9586.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
第一線,國軍必須要給他們夠多的保障,讓他們才能夠無後顧之憂。好,下一個我要請問的當然就是有關於無人機的部分了。剛剛前面也都有委員來說了。那麼這個無人機所曝光的畫面,我們現在確定是民用的無人機,那確定是民用的無人機嗎,部長? |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9590.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9602.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那是不是民用的無人機就無法可管,或者是說就撇開我們過去有關於這個如何反擊或反制的部分,是這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9603.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9625.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我跟委員報告,不管民用軍用,例如預約我們是上空就代表一個侵犯,我們搞不清楚他什麼民用軍用,我把當初他已經發動第一級這種概念,但我剛剛已經報告我承認這件事情我們訓練不夠周延,規定都有,程序步驟也都明定,但他的金防部這地方沒有去落實推動, |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9626.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9632.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
好,因為我看到的是媒體曝光之後當然媒體應該有去問軍防部所以呢就有了一個這樣的新聞稿說什麼類似騷擾阿那麼會以自我防衛的言 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9642.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9645.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
本期特別去找了一個無人機處置的報告這是去年11月當時因為也發生一些無人機的狀況所以當時就有四個步驟無人機的處置作為包括識別監控第二個是告 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9666.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9670.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
警通報第三個就是防衛涉及第四個就是安全示警就以我們看到的這樣一個狀況的時候啊那麼目前這個SOP就像剛剛部長您所說的是訓練不夠還是說他們根本無法認知到底應該要進行到哪一個步驟又或者是說當時我們看到這個照片喔當然對這位弟兄有點不好意思啊但是可以感受的到是他們確實是有發現無人機了那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9694.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9709.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
從金防部3月30號的新聞稿其實我感受不到是他們有認為這有威脅嗎或者是認為就只是看過就算了那麼對於4個月前就是去年11月當時所提出來的這4個作為他們有做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9711.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9728.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
還是說真的只是給我們這個國防外交委員會一份報告,但是事實上這個步驟並沒有落實下去?我跟委員報告說,落實不落實這就是關鍵,做它有定,但你要定出規則你還是要演練,這方面一定出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9730.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9757.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那所以我想要請那個軍防部的就是那如果說現在沒有演練還是說曾經演練過因為基本上無人機的侵擾或者是干擾甚至於威脅已經是越來越頻繁那麼在面對這樣的狀況的時候應該是要針對像我們上個禮拜有特別講到的無人機我們都需要有這個操作手要有訓練的時候那麼非操作手者的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9758.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9773.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
袍澤們同胞,這個國軍弟兄們,他們是不是有類似的課程跟訓練在做反制,還是說其實只是看到這樣的情況,給了委員會的委員一份報告之後沒有在實質訓練,有沒有現在這樣子做反制訓練的相關的課程呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9777.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9792.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我跟委員報告,他有做,他現在也要強化,但是速度以前就要求了,等到發生再補強,講起來也對好,就亡羊補牢,但這不是辦法,等到發生再來補強就沒有意義了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9793.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9812.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所以我還是跟委員報告也是很抱歉這也是我們國防部應該要做而沒有做好的我們強化但是剛剛委員講說是每個非操作手段他也要去練因為這是反制的東西反制的方法不管你會不會操作你只要這個程序步驟知道該打這個訊號彈的該要射擊的這個是講得很明確的我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9817.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9833.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
臺灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9833.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9835.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
國內本島的部分有沒有什麼樣的區域因為我覺得一時間全部叫大家來上課包括可能反制的器材或者是反制的設備或是反制的師資教練都不一定夠對部長來講有沒有幾個先行的好好真的認真尤其是我們認為這個無人機出現的機率很高的那麼部長這裡有沒有一個想法是希望從哪邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9860.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9866.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
有,有,首當其衝就外離島嘛這已經發生過兩件事情還有就本島有關係機場或雷達站重點我們把它設為優先的因為這兩家飛機以後對我們任務的執行都會有問題那其他的話一般部隊那是門禁安全那個問題但是每個都要訓練的 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9890.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9909.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
所以我們國防部上工也曾經有發掘過,干擾掉下去要交給警察,這個我們要不停的演練好,那麼我希望這個部分因為真的無人機的部分其實對於台灣的侵擾是越來越明確越來越多,那麼也請部長海槍灣的單位能夠多留意這個部分,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9918.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9918.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
現在處理臨時提案,請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9932.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9941.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
鑑於國內電價已於4月1日起﹐對所有用戶類別實施全面性調漲﹐電價平均調漲11%﹐然國內電價上一次111年7月調漲後﹐國防部112年實際支出電費已達34億餘元﹐出估本次電費調漲後﹐恐將達到41億餘元之規模﹐因應近年共居持續樓台﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9958.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9980.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
國軍油料零附件及重要軍事投資建案時需經費不斷大幅的成長．國防年度預算已不敷之意．甚至發生動用預備金之情勢．考量國防部為非盈利事業單位．國防預算均乃自國人民脂民膏故電費之調漲．造成國防部電費實際支出費用暴增． |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9980.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10008.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
．恐不符合全民之利益．亦將影響國軍建軍備戰之執行．原此要求國防部應向行政院積極爭取．將國防部及所屬代位納入本次電費調漲動漲名單內．並請於2個月內向立法院．外交及國防委員會提出書面報告．提案人委員馬文君、黃仁、陳永康．徐巧欣、林益君等．宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10015.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10019.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
就這個提案的主旨因為國內的電價在4月1號已經針對所有用戶類別要實施全面性的調漲不過它的漲幅也高達11%國內上一次調漲電價是在111年7月 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10033.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10038.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
那時候國防部在112年實際支出的電費就已經高達34億111年那時候是30億所以已經增加了4億多那現在出估本次電費調漲以後可能會達到40多億的這樣的規模對於我們現在共軍它持續擾台在就是我們的油料還有一些零附件一些重要的投資建案 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10063.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10070.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
的一些預算支出他的需求不斷的增加而且這個在我們在去年的預算裡面也沒有包含在內所以對於整個國防部的一個負擔可能會加重非常的多那這樣子的暴增的經費我們希望在這一次可以不要調整國防部電價的這個部分因為這一次電價的調整有一些學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10091.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10092.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
就這一個提案是不是委員 洪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10115.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10130.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
先請國防部先說明首先感謝趙委還有各位委員對國防部這樣一個電費的關心跟支持那這個我區分三個部分向委員做報告因為國防部也是行政團隊的一員 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10131.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10158.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
也是行政團隊的一環那這個這個調漲部分是整個整個部會都是一次性的調漲那作為這個行政團隊一環我覺得這個要動長這個名單可能我們還在在失狀況再來爭取第二個因為我們的用電是屬於軍事的用電跟平跟一般的民生用電這樣的一個範疇和目的是不太一樣不太一致不太一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10159.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10187.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
另外如果說我們在電費上有所調漲之後支出會增加我們會有預備金甚至我們會跟行政院申請所以我在這邊跟委員會報告這個文字部分修改兩個部分第一個部分就是第二段第三行考量國防部非營利單位那個我們建議增加一個字就是考量國防部為非營利單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10188.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10217.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那第三段的部分就是原詞原文是要求國防部應向行政院積極爭取將國防部即所屬的單位納入本次電費調整動長名單內我們建議把它調整為原詞要求國防部向行政院積極爭取預算支付報告完畢爭取預算支付是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10219.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10234.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
爭取預算來支付你們認為動漲不可行嗎?有些學校跟醫院這一次也在動漲之內啊因為這一次要調漲的時候那時候這樣我們的預算很充足的意思嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10235.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10260.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我們預算可以來遇到這個經驗長處我們是應該是可以這次調漲高達11%以上所以你們覺得國防部之前沒有這樣子的一個漲價考量的情況之下你們的預算已經可以足以支應我們如果數量不夠的話我們當然還要向行政院來積極爭取那我剛剛跟召委還有委員報告過所以我們的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10261.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10267.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
建議說要動漲國防部覺得說只要有爭取就好了如果沒有也沒關係這樣子的意思嗎因為我們的建議是希望其實是可以在這一次的動漲因為現在兩岸的局勢這麼緊張的情況之下我們的需求可能也相對增加你油電為什麼大家都會把它常常擺在一起那你油漲了以後我們現在已經用預備金在支印了那現在要漲這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10291.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10312.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
你認為我們的預算都可以支應?都可以充足的支應?是嗎?報告委員 這個是這樣子說啦就是我們因為我剛剛跟各委會報告過了所以我的提案是是建議要納入這一次的動長名單之內國防部覺得不妥 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10312.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10313.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
因為這是額外增加的,你本來在去年審預算的時候你根本不知道會調漲這麼高的預算啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10335.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10351.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那時候每次在審預算的時候都跟我們說那個油料這樣突然要增加那麼多我們有很多的預算都不足以支應那現在顯然是我們的預算是很充足報告召委那這樣好我們先請經濟部看看他們的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10355.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10374.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
好 謝謝我想這個部分委員有這個提案委員有提案委員的思考那國防部剛剛也表達那我要表達的部分是就經濟部在這個主管這一次電價調整的一個機制要跟委員做個說明那這個機制的部分是依據我們的電源法的規範成立一個電價審議會 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10376.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10393.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那所有相關的一個這個條長或者是動長的部分也是在電價審議會討論過了而且是在今天就公告實施那如果說這一次的那個這個建議要納入本次的電位的動長名單大概也沒辦法去納入我想這個部分要必須很明確的跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10396.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10415.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
主席及委員報告那我們的建議是這個事情這個軍用的一個這個用電的情形是不是跟民生有相關的部分我們建議可能要評估啦可不可以這樣做調整假設這樣的一個委員有這樣的一個建議我們建議說在最後一段說原始建請國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10416.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10428.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
應向行政委爭取評估將國防部暨所屬單位納入電價調整董事長名單內那建議這樣的方式去做評估看看有沒有這個機會我想這是經濟部的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10431.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10439.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
從2022年開始因為烏鴉戰爭所以油料的成本上漲那我們過去兩年在處理油料成本上漲因為當時其實有個油料波動那過去兩年我們處理的方式是什麼是編預算還是叫中油吞 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10464.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10488.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
委員好我是主席局局長在過去這兩年有關油料上漲的部分我們分成兩部分來談第一個我國防部內部先檢討我們有適當的預算可以以緩計集來做預注不足的部分第二部分我們跟行政院主席總書來做個爭取第三個我們就跟中油來協調部分的款項遞顏支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10490.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10505.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我先確認,因為油料的費用增加可能有兩個因素,一個原因當然是因為吳俄戰爭之後其實油料的單價提高,這是有這個因素,油料單價提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10507.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10534.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
第二個也有我們自己因為可能共軍擾台所以我們這個飛航的軍機使用的油料的量也變多就是我們油料的費用增加可能有這兩個因素啦對不對同時存在應該同時存在但我只是確認一下是說我們過去兩年我們怎麼處理這個國軍所使用的這個能源支出增加的這個問題主要後來是用邊預算來支應還是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10536.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10536.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
有動長名單嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10555.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10579.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
油有動漲名單嗎?我跟委員報告,油沒有所謂動漲名單因為我們的油基本上都是這個已經建立一個非常完全明顯的機制當油價漲的時候,跌的時候,它有一個公式去計算來做適當的一個這個調漲或調降的一個狀況所以當然就沒有啊,油就是沒有動漲的名單啊那現在就是有學校跟醫院啊哪一個學校跟醫院不是行政團隊的? |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10581.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10603.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
不過我想跟委員報告事實上這個有一個很明確的方案是照顧民生跟弱勢所以這一次的審議會裡面是針對農業、學校、醫院沒有還有社福單位納入董事長名單那是考量到民生或弱勢的一個狀況來做處理民生跟弱勢當然可以考量啦現在我們國家安全它也是很重要的一環嘛所以其實我們的提案是針對這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10606.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10627.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
我們是建議說可不可以評估我剛剛的建議是這樣子就是說在最後一段原始要求建議改為建期然後國防部應向行政機局爭取增加一個評估將國防部及所屬單位納入本次要拿掉因為本次已經沒有機會了不可能的那這本次拿掉就電價調整動脹名單內這樣的方式來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10632.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10648.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
下一次什麼時候還要再講?我們現在是沒有什麼長不長的問題,因為電價的部分必須要審議一條,現在是審議會的部分是每年兩次,一次4月1號,現在是在10月1號的部分來做出來。如果你評估的狀況是需要,可能就是下一次。因為經濟部不要講太大聲,經濟部是最沒有資格講這個話的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10655.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10672.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
因為本來電價也是有一個制定的公式他為什麼要這樣子漲一次漲這麼多其實就這個部分其實經濟部沒有按照這樣子的一個步調做所以今天我們在提案的時候我們也希望也要尊重本委員會就如果在這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10675.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10688.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這一次他沒有辦法即時的納入那當然我們是會建是可以同意改成這樣子不過就這個部分你說只有考量弱勢跟社福的一些相關的單位還有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10691.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10692.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
政策的錯誤也要一起納入考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10714.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10720.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
今天不是只有用公式來談所以你不要再跟我們這裡談公式講到公式的部分是你該漲的時候你如果按照公式大家沒話講啊就跟你的油一樣啊有時候漲有時候跌你跌的時候你會跌啊可是你電價一漲上去它可能不會跌啦所以就這個部分我們才希望它有一個穩定的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10737.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10754.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
國防安全也是大家應該要考量的尤其現在不管是用電用油他可能隨之增加很高的部分的情況之下這個也是希望行政院其實可以重視這個部分我對國防安全完全這個支持所以我才建議說評估來做適當的一個處理好同意所以就按照剛剛經紀人剛剛講的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10764.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10775.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
剛剛講的是說原此建請國防部應向行政院積極爭取評估然後將國防部及所屬單位納入本次電費調整綜合名單內積極爭取將國防部及所屬單位納入後續電費電費調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10785.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10811.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
建請可以啊?建請嘛,好不好?好,那就建請,OK,好。調整部長名單之內,就是你在未來的一些會議或者評估的時候,一起納入。所以本次兩個字刪掉嘛,對不對?因為已經過了。所以,OK,好,那就改成建請。你確定本次,本次已經確定了嗎?確定,因為今天已經公告了。好,好,好,謝謝稍微,謝謝各位委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10817.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10824.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
先讀一下修正文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10830.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10857.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
修正第二段之文字：願請建請國防部應向行政院積極爭取．憑供將國防部及所屬單位納入後續電費調整動長名單內．並均於兩個月內向立法院．外交及國防委員會提出書面報告第一段照原提案通過宣讀完畢好,我們修正通過好,我們先休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11261.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11278.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
陳勇康委員上台諮詢委員中科院院長軍備局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11295.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11301.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
國防自主政策推動具體成效,這是一個重要的里程碑。 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11302.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11324.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
當然過去所有同仁共同努力的付出有些成果當然也有很多精進的空間如果我們以五年兵診往前看的話後面還有很多的專案在執行中還面臨一些挑戰我在這邊先提出一個比較重要的建議案剛才有聽取到很多在專案的管理上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11325.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11352.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我們有採購室有軍備局有中科院那也有在簽署合約的過程中間有篩選哪些備選哪些合格不合格我個人建議因為有這麼多的我們講國內案FMS軍售案比較單純我們跟美國這麼多年的合作經驗非常好商售案就是美國對我們的商售案有些會變成我們國產產業底下的供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11353.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11365.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
也就是說在我們的航空產業在我們的造船產業裡面有包含美國進口的物資那麼也透過國內的技術廠商的整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11366.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11395.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這裏面產生了一個問題就是說我們需要有一個專業的律師團隊這個並不是指我們現有的人專業素質不夠而是他的負荷太大就這麼多的國防產業案子裏面你要去看每一個合約的細則以我們現在的幕僚成本單位來講在履約督導專案進行甚至在合約的過程中間我們往往疏忽了有些什麼特殊條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11396.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11396.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11424.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11425.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11433.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11433.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
併請國家科學及技術委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11460.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11486.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
來看那麼至於在過程中間有沒有是因為不可抗力因素產生了有些是無法罰這個建議我們的這個採購作業室軍備局總科院甚至我們的法律師要有一個專案的團隊這些人呢我們可以聘專業的律師在全案的過程中間來幫你監督比方來講外國廠商他找了他的代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11487.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11510.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我們要他做核實調查要由本國的律師跟外國律師同時查核這個他的資格不合他的信貸合不合他的信譽合不合這個叫做DD,Due Diligence這必須要做那這項在後面的專案裡面在執行的過程中間我們都會提出這個要求這個可以幫國防部減省很多的旅遊督導的負責因為由這個專業的律師團隊全程參與一直到結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11514.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11514.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
中科院 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11532.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11553.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
過去參與國防科研多年他從理論導入模擬測試實境驗證跟性能提升的過程中間他奠定了很多的基礎在目前科技突飛猛進的挑戰下中科院參與國家太空衛星計劃也好多年了為航空太空習慣相關的服務模組 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11555.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11569.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
比如說在福爾摩沙系列的衛星福爾摩沙5號到8號我們提供了衛星的電力控制電腦衛星導航證明了國防自主中科院具備有相關航太的研發能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11571.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11593.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
目前我們的建議是把中科院從現行的周邊組織要重新定位,賦予全責相符的關鍵位置,這樣子中科院可以保持累積尖端的研發能力,與我們的國家太空團隊共同合作,為國防自主奠定一個好的基礎。我要提到人才問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11596.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11619.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我們積極推動太空計劃政策﹖建議採行全方位的資源整合運用目前太空計劃是把他的教育經費有跟某些學校合作我們建議是要全國的產官學員如陽明交大、中央大學、成功大學乃至於國防大學理工學院設有航空工程系的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11621.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11635.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
解成團隊因為太空中心的合作計畫的對象是比較偏狹比較窄我們覺得培育人才這個計畫不是機密性的只有人才不足跟沒有人才才可能是機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11637.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11652.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那我現在就把幾個論述的方法簡單的提出來我們的目標是以國防產業的技術自主增強國家戰略的自主性我們的方法提升中科院航帶科研的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11653.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11678.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
以有限資源全方位配合分配我們的手段建議從周邊組織重新定位直接賦予全責相符的關鍵位置人才的培育是最關鍵性的有限的資源配合促成產官學研諸如陽明交大、中央大學、成功大學、國防大學、理工學院這個團隊共同努力才完成一個航太自主的國家戰略目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11680.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11695.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
在這個裡面看到這是福衛五號的照片我們中科院在裡面做的衛星電腦電力控制單元我們有跟這個中央大學合作甚至衛星導航的系統我們都參與了那其次最後一個就是說我們這麼多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11697.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11697.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
中科院議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11718.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11738.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
跟委員報告一下當然中科院過去研究這個發展的這個整個衛星的關鍵技術我們也建了案來執行都已經執行了一個段落了因為太空中心的成立當然當初國安會的考量是為了不要說支援大家分兩邊所以才由太空中心來做主導 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11739.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11766.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
中科院把自己的研發成果然後跟太空中心來做一個輔助的功用剛才還講了這個福爾摩沙但中科院確實是有參與除了剛才講的電腦之外還有Power Supply另外還加了陀螺儀都幫他來做那委員知道我想現在我們不再發射衛星的那部分的載具中科也正在研發當中這個都沒有間斷在這邊跟委員做個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11771.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11797.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
國防工作,不管衛星也好,只要中國委員有這個能力,而且參與的,這都是促進我們自己基本技能的要件之一。所以我剛看到有關國防大學、理工學院,據我了解他們有些都參與的。人才培育從學校教育就開始,不要等到他就位了以後,那個就慢了。我絕對努力來做這方面工作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11799.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11819.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
軍備局是不是能夠將來整合一下就是說我們要有一個除了專案的管理人才跟我們的這個合約審查希望有一個律師團隊這個人才不見得是在我們軍中因為他可以全程參與他幫你做核實調查就是說有關外國廠商他代理商他的信譽調查要做這個那這個變成納為我們選項選量選服務裡面的一個重要參考依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11825.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11826.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
接下來請陳冠廷委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11884.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11884.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11895.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11918.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
村委員好部長好部長我想要請教因為其實金門的這個相關的事件前幾位委員都有談到那最近包含它水域還有這個無人機侵擾也不是第一次了那也有委員之前有提到已經有六次相關的狀況那我們知道說有無人機處置作為那無人機處置作為是沒有在這個公開場合揭露的那當然還有一定的準則標準在 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11920.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11938.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
有一定的準則標準有一定的流程但是它還是不斷的出現6次所以6次都沒有學到教訓還是6次都沒有想正確的方法因應那如果說是流程有問題是不是流程要檢討我想請教一下這個相關單位是怎麼看這件事情的 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11938.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11957.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我跟委員報告,這件事情一開頭,我們以前也發生過,所以依據那個發生過的經驗,我們定一些不管訓練流程,怎麼處置要理,連同處置規定都定得很清清楚楚。但我跟委員這樣報告,不代表講我要把這事情推給人家,因為我們已經進行檢討過,一看到狀況,就是一個訓練沒有落實。 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11962.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11973.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
但我們要從強化訓練落實方面來著手而這個程序跟這個目標怎麼用法方法都已經定得很清楚我覺得如果還有再發掘缺失的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11974.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11998.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我之所以問這一題的原因是因為他也不是第一次出現那如果每一次檢討沒有辦法更精進作為那每一位我們看到那一個這一個短影音看起來他們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11999.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12025.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這些兵士的這些作為跟上次跟上上次沒有太大的區別那沒有太大的區別的意思就是說要嘛就是流程出了問題要嘛就是訓練出了問題那剛才其實有相關單位跟我們來分享那我覺得就是說有針對這件事情都有在做檢討只是想說你們的演練狀態是怎麼樣訓練多久演練多少次了有沒有把各種可能的劇本先做一些操演 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12027.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12036.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
有些可能是在漁船上面起飛的無人機有些可能是從廈門那邊來的無人機那你們內部練習、操演、因應大概有多少次了? |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12056.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12079.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
他只要講說有第一線你第一線曾經遇到什麼狀況你就把那個狀況當作一個設定設定幹什麼設定完了以後做一個訓練的一個範本就依據因為由海上來的可能跟他對岸飛過來可能不一樣如果時間方面的那你就訓練的方法就不一樣但我們只要把它簡單化就是說你只要有目標在我們上空 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12080.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12103.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
這個程序是不會變的,不管它從哪裏來,那現在經濟防部尤其是外離島這些同仁,它就已經上空了,它已經不研究這個危機從哪裏來了,所以這是我們要強化的,從觀念到具體作為,到主觀的督導,到我們幕僚去看到底有沒有到定位,這我們真的還有蠻大的一個檢討空間, |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12105.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12124.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我們加強吧我會努力我會努力好謝謝部長主要的倒也不是說他這件事情事實上面可能會造成對當地的這個軍民的這個傷害而已當然是他們可以透過影音的剪輯然後甚至會 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12125.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12143.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
在做一些虛假亂的訊息說臺軍怎麼樣慌亂等等當然我們看直接看影片當然是知道說這一切如常沒有說因為這樣什麼慌亂的這樣子走弊等等但是他們可以這樣做那如果他們這樣做的話我們的紡織的方法又是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12143.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12163.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我的意思是說我們必須要有一個比方說我們成功反制的時候對我們來講也是一個重大的一個可以講成的一個機制就是說你成功的反制他之後同樣的可以把這樣子的影音來去傳送讓他們知道說我們有能力去反制而且我們成功反制過這就對於他們能夠在這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12164.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12165.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
各位報告這是我們應該要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12191.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12208.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
第二部分關於潛艦國造的規劃未來我看我們的總統當選有提到要一次把它全部來把它完成那當潛艦的這個數量達到10艘之後那我們的未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12210.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12230.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
就是說我們必須要先做規劃,包含如果遇到急難狀況的時候,那潛艦的深海救難的能量,我想請問現在海軍有沒有潛艦救難的這個相關的裝備,或者是有沒有跟盟國簽署相關的救難協議來去因應這樣子的挑戰?是,我請海軍參謀長跟我們說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12233.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12261.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
委員好我是海軍參謀長因應潛艦的兵力的次第的成拘那睽以未來呢我們也覺得未來有必要增加這個整個的潛艦的救難以及相關的海底的這個資料的收集那我們也會在未來規劃我們已經在五年兵力整建部分針對一個中和型的海洋的中和資源艦來針對潛艦的部分會做一個全方位的一個目前在建案階段跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12262.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12280.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那另外當然必要的潛艦出去執行任務的時候我們有一些配套的做法都是跟相關的一個區域的這個協商機制都有的我想請教的是說自己擁有還是去跟其他的我們可信賴的國家來有這樣的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12281.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12305.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這個目前是有的,但是細節部分不方便在這邊說反正有準備就對了,已經有預先規劃,那很重要我們之所以講到這件事情,其實也不是只有潛艦而已海面下的一些事物其實很多的,包含數位部、數位發展部在強化海底電纜等等海底電纜的修復的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12306.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12322.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
這個部分我不知道跟國防部有沒有直接的關聯性因為這個通訊可能跟交通比較有關聯同時它又是我們國防安全的重要的一部分那我想請教就是說有沒有相關的像是遇到 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12323.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12336.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
共方如果在針對戰時或者是非戰時來去把我們的這種海底電纜做破壞的時候我們有沒有跟其他國家有相關服務的簽署或者是協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12338.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12357.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
海底電纜是交通部在那邊主導,但我們並沒有脫開,因為在外島我們的通訊也是必要的,但我們並不只仰賴海底電纜,所以國軍在這一方面從有海底電纜之前,它通聯的方法就已經不斷在精進。 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12358.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12384.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
有光纖的用光纖,沒有光纖的用淺融線等等,還有微波。所以現在這個狀況發生了以後,對國軍的,不能講影響不大,但影響比較小,因為我們畢竟有很多其他備援的手段。所以影響比較大的,大概也就是民間要跟島內來通聯,會造成他不方便有心理方面的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12385.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12396.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
這我想說這有很大努力的空間事實上將來做國軍在這樣通訊無虞的話是也可以大家來做一個合作怎麼來強化補強這都可以討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12400.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12416.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
因為其實這個海底電纜那有可能中方的這些需要破壞的話那相關的情資情報那可能國防部的這些禽獸的機關也麻煩就是說以後能夠真的是跨部門的來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12417.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12439.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12445.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12471.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
其實這一個部分我們也多次包含在院會有跟部長談到有分東西兩邊那一部分由中科院直接去處理另外一部分目前應該是由國發會還是經濟部去主導等等的那還是希望說就是部會之間的本位主義盡量是不要有因為我們剛才聽到說前幾位委員都一直在談到 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12473.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12473.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12503.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12519.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
你要去審或者是剛才陳永康將軍有講到的Due Diligence的部分其實我們要設定一個期限不然到時候你說有一千多家來然後最後18家、12家那時間再拖過去的話其實對於一般的企業來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12521.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12540.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
時間就是他們的商業的根本的精神他們沒有辦法也沒有能力去拖下去那能夠參與投資或者是說他們的能力有沒有夠我們其實之前看到中科院的一些計轉廠商做不出等等的我是希望說我們可以放開一點這個這個不用本位主義因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12541.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12569.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我當然知道說現在國家安全裡面有很多的什麼零件部件我們都需要說能夠完整的審查完之後可是如果你要快速的捂貨快速的使用這些商用的特別是我們的無人機產業未來在嘉義縣它都會是很重要的一部分那我們希望說這個流程有沒有辦法去加速就是說你已經確認完之後這家公司它背後第一個沒有中資第二點它沒有這些相關的疑慮之後這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12570.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12598.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
數據庫是不是可以增大一點就是說以後不要花那麼久的時間三年、四年不知道這個部分院長有什麼樣的看法是顧問報告一下中科院這個剛才委員提到本月主席其實跟委員報告確實是沒有這個計畫未來一定是嘉義縣政府、經濟部還有中科院我們共同三方共同協力來做那為了加速就是說我們趕快核定之後能夠常常進駐我們事先也調查了 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12599.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12622.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
目前有56家廠商有意願馬上要來進駐所以這方面我們都提前來做規劃跟委員做報告,都有提前在做,是的好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝大家辛苦了謝謝接下來請賴世保委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12633.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12636.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
謝謝主席請各位先進有請邱部長請邱部長財委好部長我也好你是最近這幾年我看到的國防部長少數個受到朝野立委的肯定謝謝委員大家給你打氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12660.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12662.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
你今天能夠來我們給你打氣這個我先請教你一個問題我看了一下說確定賴清德準總統要聽你的簡報時間確定了嗎對不對明天喔是明天嗎對明天確定了這個時間點這個有點有點無聊 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12687.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12702.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
在過去在過去總統都是先確定了行政院長確定了國安委秘書長之後再聽國防部長簡報那這次這個schedule往前了先聽國防部長然後再這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12704.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12728.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
你不能講一下你自己體會是什麼我根本沒發覺這個問題有前後的問題不過真的我們覺得講說一個長官要更換的話有必要把我們目前當前狀況跟未來的走向要給他做說明其實在準備當時我在那邊為什麼那邊還沒報告就叫我們來報告沒有這樣子我覺得這個我 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12730.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12757.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
沒有這種念頭我就不知道怎麼回答了但的確有這件事情我們要做報告報告的重點在哪裡我剛剛講的就外國國防部我們的工作任務啊目前的重點是什麼未來方向為何但就這一方面我看是這樣子的我的解讀啦這次不一樣提早讓國防部長先報告有某種程度啊他們也力挺你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12758.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12775.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
所以不要小看自己啊朝院、立委、立廳尼,連長官都立廳尼我很感謝委員啊,但是我真的沒有想到這件事,真的沒有你別誇嘛,你翻一翻過去,翻一翻過去都是這樣子的那你感受到嗎?那這樣子的話,520之後你確定走嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12782.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12800.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
報告委員,上來接著真的偶然,但將來早晚一定要交差,時間點我真的不知道,加上我個人參與的意見,我們早就表達了,所以我們傳媒有表達過,所以520之後,如果賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12805.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12811.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
讓我有必要再接觸你在另外的領域也是一不容辭我今天做球給你看對你多好 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12828.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12853.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以我們不知道啦齁我看這個一些動作你看一方面我們覺得欸怎麼你被追殺的感覺咧所以我們來挺你啊現在看起來我挺你力道很多欸除了立委以外還有好多個力量在挺你咧為什麼這樣你在這裡表現出來的有那個降臨的味道沒有魄力講真話講實話不講謊話 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12857.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12863.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這個很重要我怕以後沒有機會來讚美你了因為你講真話這個東西說不定好了不要說不定了我們看一下你就在這裡講的你說第一集的概念改變了只要有實體越界 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12883.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12896.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
第一集當然你要判斷喔第一集不是馬上打判斷他是軍的啦是商的啦什麼之類的那現在這個剛才很多委員問啊我在深入問那個問題啊就是大陸的無人機來到這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12901.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12920.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
你講的一點是講得很好的管你什麼逆光不逆光我們開車都知道啊有時候是逆光啊哪裡說因為這個逆光我就我就發生車禍哪裡說逆光我就可以不按照SOP哪裡說逆光我可以人跑掉了彈藥放在那裡那個畫面很丟臉欸部長啊我看那個畫面看了很難過欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12923.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12951.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
報告委員,的確,我們是有訓練方面確實反映的力度但事實上我為什麼不想要改變就是修條當初第一集的大家建議要有槍砲,會傷到人但現在從無人機一二載,載了三十種出來對大家民心事情困擾很大所以我們要當作也是你這種挑釁挑釁的話,我們就把它列為不管軍用民用,反正一個實體 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12952.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12954.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
可是現在有一個問題喔無人機過來它是無限的還是有限的不一樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12979.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13001.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
你如果是無限的用干擾機啊,你干擾器可以把他干擾,有限的就沒辦法咧,有限的不知道要怎麼辦咧,你打飛他就成本太高,打,你怎麼辦你告訴我,有限的怎麼辦,有限的,有限的,干擾,干擾不下來,下一步就是,下一步就是,該要把他打掉,打掉嘛,用什麼打下來,用什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13001.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13020.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我們有一個規範,就假如你想說你用飛彈,不能這樣子,所以我們一定要有一個節度,你哪用炮彈也會產生一個反而效果,我們就利用現有的武器該把它擊落就擊落,這個武器的選項是由我們來決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13023.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13044.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
這個現在看起來的話他只要在上面沒有辦法判斷民用的還是徵收的沒辦法判斷有沒有掛彈是不是不判斷這個只要有不是我們的大家要警告他也不理不管你有限無限那我就把他記錄好嗎那前幾天這個影片怎麼辦呢這個影片的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13049.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13049.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
什麼時候會有處置的結果出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13066.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13093.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
我沒有辦法講到時間啦因為畢竟還有一個程序要走嘛但一定會有一定會處理處理完以後我派專員跟委員做報告跟我們立法院報告就可以了大家很關心這個因為現在三不五時他就跑來三不五時就跑來到底要怎麼樣確定所以部長剛剛講我總結一下就是說只要上來我們上空不管怎麼樣就打下來就對了是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13095.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13098.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
最後一個問題我想請教的因為時間到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13123.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13142.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我們什麼時候可以自己量產無人機?現在已經在努力做這一方面,有一些都已經做了,但還在測試啊等等的,但有一些已經有了。可以期待多久?台灣這一方面的工業很強啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13143.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13144.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
可以期待多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13156.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13181.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
有幾款 現在目前研發了有11款 增大一體的目前潮上研發了有7款在服役的有幾架 在服役的有4種已經服役了對 都是健身 有幾架了 這個多了 這個有大概有200多架小的中的 那我們不是還要跟外面買3000架不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13182.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13183.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
接下來請林益君委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13220.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13221.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
主席好 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13233.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13254.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
部長好,部長,想必部長一定知道戰鬥各裝裡面的抗彈板的裝置是保護國軍官兵性命安全最基礎也是最重要的裝備吧?裝備是意思,保護裝備所以本席今天想要針對下一代的MIT國造的抗彈板有幾個問題想要請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13255.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13281.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
針對目前國軍使用的軍用抗彈板的問題．本席辦公室上週有特別求證．並請教過軍備局．所以本席想要請教部長．目前國防部使用新的國造抗彈板．他們的防護標準是採用美國司法學院．所頒布的執法人員防護標準．也就是NIJ防護分級做標準．沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13282.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13285.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
報告委員我們現在是採取現在美軍最新的ISAPI最新的一個測試的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13298.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13313.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
國防部如果能參照美國軍用的標準那為什麼不直接採用美國軍用標準呢?因為這個說法可能會讓很多社會大眾誤以為你們真的有採用美軍的ISAPI的測試方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13314.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13321.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
但是下一代的抗彈板的測試是能防護5.56口徑的鋼芯彈但是美軍ISAPI的測試標準要測試4種彈藥裡面唯一5.56的口徑是穿甲彈那種貫穿力完全是不同的更何況這個NIJ的防護分級的標準是用在針對像警察這類的執法人員因應任務需求所定下來的標準可是我們的軍隊要作戰用的抗彈板 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13344.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13347.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
跟警察執行任務的環境應該是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13349.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13373.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那怎麼我們國軍會用與警察執行任務使用的防護標準相同呢?這樣對我們國軍未來萬一發生了戰爭對他們的安全性保護性這樣會足夠嗎?事務官委員報告他雖然是對向警察或者軍人但那個抗彈的功能是可以適應的我是請軍備局局長跟您做說明一下好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13374.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13401.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
委員好,軍備局局長報告跟委員報告,我們第一代的戰鬥歌裝是在105年研發也是我們國軍第一次的研發,我們採取的是美國剛剛委員講的沒有錯,我們是採取司法協會MIJ的測試的標準應該是我們第一次的研發那到了我們去年的時候,我們更進步的也是上一個會期我們的王定宇交委建議我們剛剛如同 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13402.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13423.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
委員剛剛所建議的是一模一樣的我們應該要採取美軍最新的ISAPI的一個測試報告所以我們現在今年我們去年已經按照ISAPI的一個測試的一個標準在去年年底已經研發成我們新一代的43PLUS的抗彈板它可以抵抗中共5.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13425.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13442.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
現在我們的口徑是5.56中共是5.8口徑的它的一個抗彈的能力那在去年都已經完成測評我們現在在大陸兵所設置的就是按照去年召委所建議我們的按照美軍最新的ISAPI的一個的測試的標準來做測試來保護我們官兵的一個安全以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13447.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13462.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
所以我們現在軍規抗彈版應該是直接採用軍規的標準了吧?是因為軍隊的作戰環境還是跟警察執法的環境是不一樣的啦因為軍隊上面是要面對跟威力更強的戰鬥步槍嘛因為敵人都會丟擲手 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13465.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13466.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13483.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13498.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
那再來根據3月24號媒體的報導國軍明年開始就是像剛剛說的量產下一代的國造的抗彈板嘛所以應該是能抵擋三發國造TC74也是相當於北約標準的M855的鋼型彈的設計是嗎?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13504.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13518.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
報告委員就是比照我們最新的一沙皮的一沙皮的就是每個抗彈板都是要打三發固定標準的現在都完全跟剛剛委員所指導跟北約都一起的標準的一沙皮報告好 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13523.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13525.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
所以現在我有一個問題就是現役的抗彈板的測試方法我稍微看一下報告就是7.62口徑是做測試根據的國防部在去年的時候7月11號的記者會上面有說法說能擋住7.62口徑子彈就可以擋住共軍的5.8的口徑是不是這樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13547.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13547.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13572.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13599.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我們子彈就是有一個牽涉到一個彈頭的部分我們剛剛委員所指導的沒有錯它7.6是普通彈那我們剛剛講的5.8的是鋼芯彈它是裡面鋼裡面是包烏芯的所以它的動能是不一樣的這個是剛剛委員講的指導是沒有錯然後我們最新發展出來的就是要抵擋5.8公里的中共的鋼芯彈所以彈藥有區分一個是普通彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13600.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13602.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
新式的抗彈版大概是比照NIJ第7版的RF2的防護標準大概是第6版的第3和第4級之間但是歐美主流現在國家的軍用都是已經至少到4級以上的防護標準了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13628.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13629.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13643.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13653.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
各軍種的作戰需求跟我們亞洲人的一個形態跟我們國人的形態在目前四級的抗戰板它一片就4.2公斤兩片都8.4公斤我們已經有去參訪我們也有看過了美軍的美軍的全套大概16公斤左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13662.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13685.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那再考量到我們國人的身材跟體格我們是以抵擋中共5.8剛性彈而且讓我們的官兵可以揹得動機動力強然後來保護自己的安全所以我們的配備最新的3Plus的一片大概只有2公斤我們會結合最新的陶瓷的材料來完成去年都已經完成了一個研發以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13688.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13716.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
所以其實剛才這樣說的軍備局這樣說的是4級的抗彈板太重是不是?所以到連結的美國援助台灣其實還有8萬套戰鬥各裝全部都是一沙坪的防護標準的抗彈板但是它是比NIJ的4級還高重量也是比較重但如果依照國防部這樣的說法那為什麼我們還要接受美國這一批重量過重不符合需求的戰鬥的各裝呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13718.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13744.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
報告委員,我們抗彈的功能只要有的話我們都可以採用它雖然重量不同,但它材質一定可以抵擋具有保護作用,這為作業所以現在它就算拿來我們也是會分配到不同的單位層級有些單位要輕便一點它一樣可以作為防彈功能但它雖然重 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13745.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13770.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
但假如他有工作比較能夠讓他符合重點在做同樣工作的我們把這些單位把他們的選項出來通通會妥為運用但絕對是一個可用的軍品不是那些廢品這跟委員做說明他也不是說我們照單全收要給不給或給什麼也是雙方共同討論出來的不會單方面來決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13773.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13776.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
那有沒有考慮說在我們還沒有研發生產之前為了軍事的超前部署建議可以跟美國購買生產能力的還是有生產能力的國家購買據瞭解一片美軍一沙皮等級的抗彈板大約成本是600美元以國軍自願役的戰鬥部隊15.5萬人來說其實幫他們每人買一片的話大概是9300萬美元這個金額其實聽起來好像很貴但是問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13801.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13826.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
如果我們最近向美國購買的F-16戰機平均一架是1.2億美元,這樣來相比較似乎好像是比較負擔得起的,那部長你覺得呢?沒有,這個軍品採購因為它的任務、功能不同而會有取捨,加上以這個價格來講的話,同樣的錢可以買到更多小零件,那我們買那麼多小零件又沒有在 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13827.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13842.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
這方面發揮那麼大功能的話那我們就要選項當然是選擇這種戰鬥機這一類的這是個例子所以國軍不管是從製建到採購到軍品獲得等等它一定是程序的雖然有不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13843.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13844.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我們都會做調整,這一點特別跟委員說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13868.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13872.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
好,那謝謝部長說明,等期就到此。是,謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13884.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13888.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
徐欣穎委員、王洪威委員、洪孟楷委員、楊瓊英委員、吳思瑤委員、鄭振前委員、蘇清泉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13907.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13930.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
委員不在請何欣淳﹖何欣淳﹖何欣淳委員不在請張祺凱﹖張祺凱﹖張祺凱委員請不在請邱志偉﹖邱志偉﹖邱志偉委員不在請羅志強﹖羅志強﹖羅志強委員不在請鍾嘉斌﹖鍾嘉斌﹖鍾嘉斌委員不在請陳玉珍﹖陳玉珍﹖陳玉珍委員不在今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13931.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13946.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
登記質詢委員．除不在場以外．均發言完畢．報告及詢答結束本日會議有王洪威委員提出書面質詢．請列入記錄並刊登公報．請相關機關以書面與兩週內答覆． |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13949.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13963.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
本日委員．口頭質詢未及答覆的部分．或要求補充資料者．亦請相關單位以書面與兩周內提供委員令指定期限者．從其所定本日會議到此結束 散會謝謝 |