| video_url |
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| 委員名稱 |
張嘉郡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:21:31 - 17:42:01 |
| 影片長度 |
1230 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
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主席我想請柯被提名人麻煩再請被提名人柯院長請被提名人好本席攤開考試院委員人事名單您是名單內資歷可以說是非常特別的一位候選人您過去擔任檢察官也擔任過司法官學院的院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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這個人事案通過了您就是史上第一位轉任考委的檢察官要怎麼把自己在法律上面的專才發揮在考試院的職務上我想要請問一下您對自己的期許是什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.368 |
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我希望法律人的經驗就是法律人其實最擅長的分析做判斷當然轉換一個跑道很多事項是我必須再重新學習的可是我想以我之前的對每個事情投入的程度我想我應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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可以在短時間之內盡快的熟悉考試院的業務然後運用我的法律人的訓練希望能夠在考試院的各項業務的推動上不管從法制上或者是有些制度怎麼設計考選怎麼設計等等我可以根據我的歷練跟經驗來提供一些意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.072 |
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那本席願意把大部分的時間讓您去說﹐去闡述您對考試院的願景是因為其實考試院作為五權憲法架構中的一環近年來常常都被質疑說存在的必要性所以本席也想要請問一下就是說目前社會各界多認為考試院與人事行政總署的職責重疊不僅降低了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
131.943 |
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行政效率甚至增加國家的治理成本那對此您是否支持廢除考試院呢這個議題一直有人討論那我覺得要不要廢除其實我們這個都尊重我其實也沒有既定的立場如果大家認為說考試院該廢除那其實我也沒有什麼我是開放的承諾可以請教一下您個人的立場嗎您覺得考試院存在的必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
161.202 |
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因為我現在還沒有過去所以我不曉得說現在考試院有沒有因為不能夠發揮憲法上的功能所以沒有存在的價值 |
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那當然現在很多人會提到說例如說他的這個他是不是跟人種那邊是不是有重疊那據我的瞭解是其實是有功能大家是從不同的角度來處理那當然是可以透過這個行政協調加強行政協調來 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
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拉近彼此之間的合作來協力推動政府的人事事項那考試...那您瞭解...您瞭解賴總統對考試院廢除的態度嗎?我至少沒有聽到他跟我...那我放一段影片給您看一下好不好?在二樓院正義修憲委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
226.469 |
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來推動包括18歲公民權或者是建立三權的憲政及體制把監察院跟考試院給廢除是不是很明白的就告訴你說其實我們賴總統的心裡他是希望廢除考試院的那不曉得您是否支持賴總統的說法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
252.072 |
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280.651 |
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我想我個人沒有立場可以說支持或不支持我只能說我們尊重大院的決定如果是大家有共識認為考試院它所當初設計所要達到的這個獨立行使權力的這個功能沒辦法達到那回到三權分立的這種狀況就好那要用修憲的程度程序來處理那我們當然尊重大家的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
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被提名人,既然廢除考試院是賴總統的目標和理想,您是否有思考過未來要推動廢除考試院原本考試院負責的國家考試,包括選區部相關職務,要何去何從? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
303.805 |
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如果真的有那一天的話那我想我們公務員包括在公務機關那當然當考試員他是政務人員他是廣義的公務員不過你在一個位置就是當一天和尚就要撞一天鐘在哪一個職位上都要盡力那如果真的大院經過修憲的程序那全民有共識那也修憲來這樣處理的話那當然我們在轉換的過程當中我們都要盡力來促成 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
334.386 |
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我問的問題除了您的想法之外我也想知道說您有想過說這些相關的職務要何去何從呢是要像學美國人事管理局然後轉至人事行政總處或者是我們要學日本他從2014年開始成立這個內閣人事局 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
354.249 |
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367.594 |
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在處理國家公務人員的招募或者是我們要由像學德國一樣就是各級政府自行辦理你有想過說這一些方向你比較贊成哪一個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
369.15 |
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我其實我覺得是要再仔細思考啦所以今天來之前你都沒有思考過我現在在瞭解的過程當中大概也只是籠統的知道外國什麼樣的法制那將來我們個人有沒有比較prefer哪一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
388.157 |
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408.513 |
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說實在我現在還沒有看到所有的這些各種資料我覺得我還需要跟將來如果說有機會到那邊我還需要跟我的同仁們來進一步了解其實本席是希望說以您的專業您在社會上算是一個高知識分子而且是很多人景仰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
410.054 |
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429.161 |
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一個對象那我們也希望說你能夠更有主見更有主見而不是你去到考試院聽考試院內部的人告訴你該怎麼做就怎麼做我當然不是認為說是考試院而是說我們就是因為我們的不能夠太根據主見你一個法律人應該是很客觀的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
429.981 |
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就是也很希望知道你本身的看法這樣我們來行使同意權才知道說我們支持的或我們不支持的人他想的是什麼我們也希望說我本席希望說你可以更正面積極的表達出自己的想法那這樣我們的人民才會透過今天的質詢更認識你更認識您到考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
453.303 |
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472.097 |
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之後要扮演什麼角色?然後您有什麼樣想要落實的方向?所以可不可以稍微做具體一點的回答呢?我想我現在的重點當然都是放在說萬一如果真的得到大院的支持可以到考試院的話我怎麼樣把考試院的職責做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
501.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以說坦白目前我沒有去議期說聽起來我要去議期這個考試院要去這個被廢除之後我要做什麼樣的處理還沒有考慮到第二個問題好了本席認為這個文官體系的穩定很容易因為這個權責的分配而受影響所以本席想要問這個被提名人可以想一想說如果假設這個廢除計劃啟動您在過渡期間要怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
502.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
能夠協助銜接然後又怎麼樣能夠確保文官制度的公平性不受損害呢抱歉你剛才說的是什麼廢除就是說如果假設考試院廢除的話您擔任考試委員那您扮演的角色就非常重要啦因為你必須要能夠讓他可以銜接啊那你們想過說這個銜接的過渡期你有什麼樣子的想法跟具體的做法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
530.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
說實在我還沒有想到廢除之後我要怎麼寫這個問題其實這個部分我想根據考試院多項的公開報告顯示 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
547.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
561.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
政策透明度與民眾參與度明顯的不足很多網友戲稱考試院是養老院可以解釋一下如何要回應外界說這個效率與功能定位的批評 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
564.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
581.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
據我了解從上屆的考試院開始其實他們也很積極的在建立跟考訓這個教考訓用各端的這個銜接那我跟他們先前的委員聊起來是他們常常也是要到處跑 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
582.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
601.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我跟其他的委員了解是真的是很忙碌而且是任務很多啦要積極的跟很多的單位包括學校還有用人機關去了解他們的問題然後再帶回來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
602.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
603.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
Iwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
641.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
實證績效公開的機制特別是在國家考試數位化跟這個政策執行效率方面是不是你已經理解到這個你扮演的角色絕對不是輕鬆的角色當然當然是很艱鉅而且我們現在只有七位七位考試委員所以責任會更重 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
670.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那接下來本席想要接著問妳有關於公務人員的退府條例您也是公務人員出身我相信您也認識非常多的司法官、檢察官本席要向您請教民國107年的時候通過公務人員年金改革法案您贊同嗎我對大院通過的法律我都尊重那您認識的公務人員的意見是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
673.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
698.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有關於退休金的業務就是考試院循序部主管我想要知道您具體的態度您是支持還是不支持我想我們尊重政府因為這畢竟是經過法律規定的尊重我們是法律人身邊的人都沒有告訴過你說他們對於這個年金改革之後的看法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
700.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
723.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們周遭當然各式各樣的朋友都有那當然有支持的有反對的那是支持的比較多還是反對的比較多呢沒有仔細去比較過所以你當時這個公務人員改革的過程吵得非常的兇那您是法律背景出身應該很了解這個改革其實違反了信賴保護原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
724.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
741.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
然後包括不應該溯及既往那公務人員會那麼生氣不就是因為國家帶頭違反信賴保護原則嗎這個您同意嗎我想到底是不是在法律解釋上是這樣的可以這樣解釋我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
741.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
743.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
法律上在做一個判斷需要很多這個佐證的一些資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
760.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
779.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
基本上那麼多人擔任公務人員效力於國家就是希望有一個穩定的工作然後退休也有國家的照顧您身為法律出身的背景也當過公務人員你可以接受國家違反信賴保護原則漠視公務人員的奉獻嗎?你接受嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
781.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
801.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我想我尊重國家的政府的改革所以你的意思就是說就算國家做的是錯的甚至你擔任考試委員如果受到的指示是違反你的專業的你也會默默的執行嗎如果將來有違反我專業的我當然在我的職長內我會努力去堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
802.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
822.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
其實當年這個年金改革考試院的委員周玉珊、周志龍、何季篷都認為過於激烈他們也是勇於發表他們的意見我本席不知道為什麼說您會不願意去表達您到底是支持還是不支持總是您應該心中有定見的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
823.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
846.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我想應該是藉由法律人的信念吧我們法律人習慣是我資訊夠了我才做這架所以您到目前為止實施了這麼多年您周邊的這麼多的公務人員你都沒有第一線感受到他們的想法嗎你也認為說全區部以35年年資作為所得替代率的基準點逐年往下降不夠極端嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
849.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
873.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
已經在領取的人來講他們當然會不高興這是可以理解不過您知道說退休的公務人員都成為均貧族嗎有三分之一的公務人員在這個改革之下成了貧困老人您身邊難道都沒有這樣子的公務人員嗎我覺得就是我需要具體的數據能夠感同身受具體的數據我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
877.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
889.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
改革已經6年了這個主計總數民國113年發布的高齡家庭消費物價指數顯示民國112年高齡家庭的CPI年漲2.8%叫全體的CPI |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
894.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
920.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
就是年增2.5%高出0.3個百分點意味著高齡退休的家庭承受比一般家庭更高的通膨壓力那我想請教被提名人你身邊應該有很多受影響的退休公務人員嗎沒有嗎你都沒有辦法感同身受嗎當然是有是吧那能夠感受一下有感受到他們的痛苦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
922.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
940.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我想這一方面因為這個可能要從具體的數據上來看來統計說現在大部分的退休人員他到底一個月是領多少那年金跟有年金改革之前他少領了多少少領了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
942.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
967.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
目前當時民進黨粗暴的版本就是所得替代率的部分每年是降1.5%然後最終會比原本下降15個百分點我想你如果要擔任考試委員這個部分你可能要比本席更清楚才對但至今所得替代率的部分已經從原本107年開始通過之後下降了6% |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
969.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
996.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那本席有提一個版本就是停在現在的6%不要再降下去了所以就說我們不走回頭路我們也沒有要再說集計網說改回本來但是從現在開始剛好他走到一半我們也應該停看停是不是就從這裡開始不要再調降所得替代率因為呢我不曉得您有沒有收到今年的這個電費單您有沒有感覺到電費變貴了有吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1000.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1018.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
因為電費變貴了油費變貴了所以萬物起漲這些退休的公務人員情何以堪要怎麼面對我也很希望說本席也很希望說您擔任考試委員您要很清楚這些人的痛苦是當然那 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1020.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1047.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
委員剛才建議的就是是不是就停止這個降低這個替代率那個牽涉到據我了解是牽涉到一個很複雜的一個精算的制度那聽起來當然是很多人會覺得這樣很好啊就不要再降了可是它背後所帶來的這個對基金的影響我覺得是需要這個再去進一步再去精算的看是不是可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1048.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1069.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
本席聽起來好像你從頭到尾都沒有任何的想法是想說進去之後就要隨波逐流是這樣子嗎我想我們到如果有機會去考試院服務那看在那個職長之上我掌握的資訊是什麼那當然還是你覺得只要攀附上衣就可以了本的法律人的正義據理力爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1070.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1090.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
距離力爭嗎所以你會為了停止降低所得地帶率距離力爭這是你給本席的答案嗎我說我會依照當時分析的結果然後依照我們就是大家那個資料可以顯示的可行之道我們來距離力爭所以到目前為止那如果假設這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1093.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1115.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
賴總統給你指示說你不能夠支持那你就是不支持嘛你是有自己主見還是你是要聽上意的我覺得有自己的主見可是我這個主見就是將來在我職務上我該怎麼樣就怎麼樣因為呢您身為這個賴總統所提名的考試委員您知道賴總統對年改的態度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1116.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1138.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
您可能也不知道吧就是在2019年民進黨總統初選的時候他就有說如果有機會擔任總統年金改革微調是可以延逸的方向那此時就是一個最好的修法時刻他已經如願擔任總統了那這樣子的話假設是要賴總統支持你才支持嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1139.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1163.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我想應該是他講微調那現在的機制現在的法律其實已經有微調的機制就是我們幾位被提名也在講的就是那個四年檢討一次或者是CPI我們現在主張的是要停止降低所得替代率我只問你這個問題說您支持停止降低所得替代率嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1164.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1192.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我覺得這個需要聽專家的意見那最後呢其實時間不多啦警察跟消防人員是保障國家安全的關鍵但是他們長期面臨人力不足跟這個工作量過大的這個問題喔那目前警消基層的缺額已經來到4488人了那壓力也越來越大那很多人認為說我們應該學習歐美國家成立這個警消工會您支持這樣子的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1196.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1213.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
團體我們當然是可以支持只是他用什麼名稱那據我瞭解所以您是支持錦霄成立公會的成立一個團體那這個團體到底要叫什麼名稱我想依照每一個國家其實他的法制有點不一樣所以你也支持他們成立公會來保障他們的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1214.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1224.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們現在的公務人員協會據我瞭解那個協會法了協會法據我瞭解考試院目前提出的修正版本已經可以讓警消 |
| IVOD_ID |
157739 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157739 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-03 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-03T17:21:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-03T17:42:01+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |