| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/28156fb6ec38ead395e7c45a3492733913383a67259e8158b61fa763af197a40d9cc7248204e3c0a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林思銘 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:51:29 - 15:12:08 |
| 影片長度 |
1239 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝院長 院長我們請呂備提名人麻煩再請呂備 請呂備選林委員你好那個呂備提名人你好 我想您這個經驗豐富在全序部 歷經繼承到常務次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
53.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
有很完整的歷練當然你也負責很重要法案的草擬以及修正的工作我看你的專長就是在公務人員的升遷法以及縫及提序認定辦法這兩個法案的制定以及修正你貢獻很多的一個心力所以我想請問在這些法案的推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
82.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
當時是否有徹底的解決我們當時所面臨的問題以及還有當時所遇到的相關公務機關的需求這是第一個問題第二個問題就是說在推動的過程中您遇到的最大的困難是什麼有沒有您能夠列舉出的幾個案例可以跟我們來分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
83.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
97.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那您是如何克服當您遇到這些挑戰的時候您是如何克服那未來如果您擔任考試委員你是否有計劃進一步的優化這些制度請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
謝謝委員提問首先我先說明一下升遷法跟諷刑提敘制度是我很年輕的時候參與的法案大概都在科長的那個階段升遷法早期因為沒有法制化升遷的時候都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
139.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
內部的一些行政規則或者是相關的規定那當時我們全序部官部長到任的時候他發現這個升遷沒有法制化所以就要求主管單位趕快去定定制定這個升遷法 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
140.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
161.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那所以那個時候我是科長的職務那這個升遷法的制定是歷經了五年的時間才完成草案委員剛提到這個過程當中有沒有什麼困難我想當時最大的困難就是升遷法會讓很多的機關認為這個好像是妨礙了首長的用人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
162.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為本來沒有法制化之前首長用人比較方便那有了升遷法的法制規範之後那當然在用人部分要遵守法制的規定所以一開始我們在制定這個法的過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
202.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
必須花一些時間跟機關首長來溝通然後讓他能夠支持所以還好所幸5年後這個法民國89年在立法院完成了法治那諷刑提敘的部分比較沒有碰到一些困難最主要是早期公務人員諷刑提敘我們都是散見在各個行政的規定裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
230.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
靠權序部的解釋或者是一些行政規則那我們希望整個公務人員奉集提序承認年資的提序是關係公務人員權益非常重大那因此呢部裡面組成一個專案小組當時是由我擔任召集人然後我們研擬完成了一個研究報告之後經過法治程序把它法治化讓現在所有公務人員有任何承認年資 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
253.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
復合提敘規定的時候有一個法的規範那這個法的研擬過程當中比較沒有碰到困難好 謝謝我想您這麼詳細的一個說明我們也知道說確實被提名人對於我們工人員的升遷以及過去諷刑的提敘您貢獻非常多的一個心力 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
263.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那這個接下來才想請問就是剛才巧訊委員非常關心的有關於我們這個公務人員退休之前府系法第67條的相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
266.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們工人員退休後．不管是他的退休的月退休金．或者彝族所領的這些月撫息金．或者彝族的年金給付的金額．剛才提到會因為我們．消費者物價指數的上漲．的成長．那我們是要達到13%．還是5%．您剛才意見是5%．公保、勞保現在都是5%．才會去做相關的一個調整． |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
310.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
調整比率是由考試院來匯同行政院來定之而不是說立法院就是現在的法律不是說立法院可以隨時來做調整就當時是要由考試院來匯同行政院來決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
311.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
321.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我們國家我國預估到2025年的時候以後這個明年的年底65歲的人口的比例將達到20.8%將會進入超高齡的社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
327.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
348.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
也就是說我們的公務人員退休後的生活他的經濟影響的因素除了說我們剛才一直強調的物價的這個通膨這個通貨膨脹的因素以外我們最近發覺到一個很重要的點就是我們老年退休後他的醫療以及長照的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
349.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
358.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
也會隨之而增加他的身心健康的保障我想是政府一直在強調的所以這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
359.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
386.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為醫療的生活的主要支出也會隨之增加如果僅考量消費者的物價指數的成長率作為調整的一個依據而沒有去考量到說我們的年長者因為要看醫、要看病醫療費的龐大的支出如果沒有考慮這個只有考慮到物價指數的調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
387.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
408.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
貝提米人你認為這樣妥當嗎這個是可以考量的所以未來您擔任考試委員您會在這個委員會或者重要的會裡面去提出您的相關的這部分的看法嗎看我們到時候的一個提案是什麼狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
411.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
433.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
是當然是看你加什麼重要的會議但是我想這個我該提問這個問題就是期許希望說未來您擔任考試委員要把這個指標因素也要把這個納入作為我們未來我們讓我們的退休金能夠調漲的一個重要的因素我們不能只看物價調漲的指數可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
435.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
445.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
委員是指說除了物價的上漲指數以外就是我們的他的未來就醫的費用這一部分的確考量進入 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
446.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
457.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
的確人當然年紀越長他需要醫療的照顧就會越多越多那所以我們現在目前對於這個67條條長的部分是設定在5%那這個剛剛我跟徐委員也有報告過那因為我們最基礎的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
468.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
470.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
Iwan Nawi、Iwan Nawi、Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
484.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
485.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
Iwan Nawi 公務人員退休公務人員物價有波漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
504.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
511.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
當時在機制上多了一個選項就是每四年大於5%或每四年調漲一次就像我們111年7月的那一次調漲那個時候物價指數的波動是1.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
526.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
526.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
546.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
546.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
568.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
596.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
身體的健康因素大家現在都非常重視所以我們對於長照醫療照護這一部分未來會增加很多的支出所以未來這個點也要把它納進去才能夠全面保障我們退休公務人員的生活所以我想您未來可以在考試院做這方面的建議另外我們要再談到所謂的所得替代率的問題是否應該要有所調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
597.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
610.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我想我們現在星期四本院對於公務人員退休的條例要做一個審查那我們的修法的精神當然是到113年我們認為說不應該再繼續地檢下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
615.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
635.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以是否要將在113年12月31日退休後的公務人員他的退休所得替代率就減到70%就停止所以我們一直強調就是說雖然剛才你一直提到說精算精算精算 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
635.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
656.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
但是我們現在在這個整個實際上我們在整個基層我們在跑我們在這樣跑活動或者去了解深入的了解我們了解公務人員他們現在基本生活的保障如果再繼續往下砍的話對他們來講隨著物價指數的調漲以及醫療的一個增加支出他們很辛苦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
657.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
675.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以如果把它遞減到70%這是大家普遍認為還可以接受的一個狀況所以我想我們有時候不用去講什麼精算講一大堆的長篇大道理實際去了解工人員的心聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
677.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
698.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我覺得政府應該要做這樣的事所以如果說我剛才提到如果說在113年以後退休的工作人員他的所得替代率就到70%被提名的人你同意嗎我剛剛有特別為什麼一直強調精算最主要是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
700.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
715.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我一開始有提到照顧公務人員是政府的責任但是呢我們有兩種人要照顧那現在還在在職的這些公務人員的權益我們也必須幫他考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
716.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
742.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以財務要穩健就是要退休的人生活有保障可是現職人員的權益也要顧慮到我覺得在公務人員裡面不同年齡世代的人其實想法會有一些落差我們在照顧的同時應該是要兩邊都要考量到 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
743.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
768.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那我自己在全序部服務這麼多年我也看到我歷任的部長甚至於院長都對這個退府基金的這個財務費了非常多的心思那所以基本上如果真的財務可以比較健全的話那我覺得陸續要怎麼處理才有條件來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
769.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
779.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
是那個被提名的人其實齁那我想你還是沒回答到我的重點我一直問雖然精算的這個問題我一說可以先把它拋在腦後 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
780.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
809.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
就到底政府有沒有能力去解決這個退府基金他的這個財務漏洞的問題我想政府其實有很多的這個財源可以去彌補這一塊只是政府一直遮遮掩掩的不願對我們公務人員做更多的一個照顧我剛一直講說如果達到70%您同意嗎天皇阿板就到70%不要再往下砍了您的看法您同意這樣的一個修法的方向嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
811.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
838.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
委員我們現在107年實施到現在已經6年了是啊那這個其實他們要砍10年嘛對對對那他們所的替代率現在已經67.567.5嘛對是啊所以我們現在把它修回來嘛到大概七成左右嘛你同意嗎你回答我你同意嗎就好了好不好這個方向你說這個方向的修法你同意嗎這個看法你覺得正確還不正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
841.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
846.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個影響層面會很大所以你不敢具體的給我回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
846.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
871.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我為什麼一直在說要尊重專業的精算是因為我們第8次精算的結果告訴我們說因為我們現在本來年金改革是所定在一個世代30年的財務穩健的前提但是因為我們112年7月實施對於出任人員實施了這個個人專戶制之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
874.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
893.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
讓這個基金的30年又提前了5年提前了5年那所以就是如果沒有維持一個世代30年的穩健那其實對縣職人來講他們都會憂心都會憂心那我們的第9次精算也快出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
894.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
914.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以我覺得看一下我們在112年因為現在112年實施個人專戶制的新進人員目前大概一萬多將近一萬二然後但是隨著年限他這個人會越來越多那等於說退府基金他也沒有活水在注入 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
915.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
943.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那因此我們會比較憂心這個問題那這個我覺得任何的改變都要審慎評估這個是我剛剛一直強調精算的原因這問題你的態度我大概知道了來我再問你就是我想你的專業在人事法治與救濟保障剛才巧訊委員提到這一次勞動部的霸凌事件我們看到工人員的考他現在勞動部是一個工人員考積法給他計兩大過免職 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
945.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
953.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那依據您的專業對考試法的瞭解現在勞動部用計兩大過給他免職處分這個程序有沒有瑕疵 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
956.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
979.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
兩大過我們在考機法裡面對於公務人員一次計兩大過他有一個很完整的規範那勞動部在他在勞發署在召開考機會的過程當中有沒有完全進行考機法的程序我不是很清楚是因為我就像我早上說我都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
979.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
998.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
靠媒體報導在瞭解他的狀況所以我覺得那個要看他實際召開考機會的時候有沒有依照現行考機法法制的規定來執行所以到目前您也看不出來勞動部是用考機法的哪一個條款來對他作出計量到過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1000.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1022.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我沒有看到他的相關文件所以我不知道這樣我問你依照你對考機法的了解因為我們現在總共是12條裡面第3項總共有8個樣態你認為這一次的謝毅榮分署長霸凌事件是屬於其中的哪一個8個條款裡面的哪一個樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1024.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1037.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們前幾天在司法法制委員會審查預算的過程當中我們權虛部的施部長有定調說他是符合第五款嚴刑不檢然後讓政府信譽遭受這個損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1039.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1063.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
的條款 勞動部真正用哪一款我是不曉得的確在我們現在考機法制上就霸凌的部分的確法制現在還沒有正式入法但我剛剛徐委員在質詢的時候我有提到我們的考機法修正草案其實把霸凌的部分都列入 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1063.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1077.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
相當平等、丁等、一次計兩大過都有很明確的適用條款我想我們完成這個法治化之後在各個公務機關適用的部分會更清楚、會更明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1078.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1096.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以未來您如果順利的擔任考試委員在相關的修法建議裡面你就會建議說把它納入我們的考試法裡面把霸凌、信騷、酒駕還有那個獨駕都把它納入我們考試法裡面的計量到夠免費的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1099.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1109.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
所以現在目前這樣的規定好像就是說未來是不是這個謝宜榮分署長如果他提出行政救濟的話有可能翻案 有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1110.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1134.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這個要尊重法院的判決那但是如果他最後是有確定的話那我們勞動部就要把這個勞發署必須把相關的免職案送到權需部來去審定那那個法院最後他有救濟的話法院最後定驗了那我就是他確定免職的日期要看法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1135 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1152.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那當然因為就是說勞動部這一次的做出來的行政處分就是到底具體如何的做出兩大過免之處分到目前我想連這個您這麼專業的的考試未來擔任考試院的委員的人都不了解可見真的是很草率 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1153.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1171.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那最後一個問題就是有關於我們公務人員高補考的問題因為高補考我們現在看到人數在2013年還有14萬人到了2022年只剩下7萬多人腰斬到了去年又只剩下3萬多人又腰斬 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1172.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1198.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以這個數字顯示說為什麼我們的高普考的報考率會那麼低但是我們在去年我們考試院9月宣布高普考增額錄取了1920人所以我們是有用人的需求但是我們報考的人數卻一直下降請問成因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1200.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1221.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
報告委員這個報考人數的下降其實有蠻多原因的包括我們現在的確面臨少子化的國安問題所以這個像我們現在大學一間一間的關那所以這個第一個是主要的問題所在那第二個呢我覺得這個報考 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1240.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1240.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
韓國瑜 |
| IVOD_ID |
157733 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157733 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-03 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-03T14:51:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-03T15:12:08+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |