| video_url |
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| 委員名稱 |
林憶君 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:42:08 - 12:03:02 |
| 影片長度 |
1254 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.pyannote[252].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
20.686 |
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25.712 |
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謝主席有請被提名人呂秋慧麻煩請被提名人呂秋慧請備選評委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
59.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
被提名人你好首先我看了你的簡歷發現你在基本的資料裡面的黨籍的部分寫明是中國國民黨但根據媒體的報導你這一次被提名並未得到國民黨的認同所以事前並不知情還遭到點名要求出面說明交代的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
87.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
沿國民黨的黨主席朱立倫在6月初接受媒體訪問的時候都有表示未經國民黨中央常務委員會同意擅自接受非國民黨籍執政者延攬成政務官為違反黨的紀律應接受黨的懲處那請問被提名人你究竟有沒有獲得國民黨的推薦可以說明一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
89.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
114.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告委員因為我是常年都是擔任常任文官那我雖然具有國民黨籍但是一直都沒有參與黨務的活動那這一次被提名主要是因為我自己在權敘部服務的時間非常的長那權敘部考試院幾乎等於是我第二個家 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
116.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
140.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
長官鼓勵我能夠留在考試院繼續貢獻我的專業我自己也覺得考試委員是一個超出黨派獨立行使職權的職務我也希望能夠把我多年累積的專業能夠繼續貢獻給國家所以我接受賴總統的提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
163.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我之前確實沒有跟黨部有報備但是在提名之後一個週末週六過了之後禮拜一的當天的6月3號的下午那我有進中央黨部面見黃建廷秘書長有跟他說明了這個過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
166.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
178.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
黨部的中央考記會希望針對我們為什麼接受賴總統的提名能夠跟他們有一個書面的答覆我也一線有做了答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
180.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
206.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為這樣的話大家會誤認為你是國民黨推薦的人選那接下來我再請問被提名人你知道我國的憲法目前依照是採行政、立法還有司法考試監察五權分立的體制那而就人事行政權來說外界就時常批評說考試院與行政院的執掌根本就是相互重疊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
208.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
228.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因此長期以來草野各政黨之間的立委也開始都質疑考試委員的人選根本就是有權謀分贓還是酬庸的問題存在甚至連民間的團體專家學者也開始建議國會應該要修憲廢除考試院那就 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
229.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
252.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
照這樣來講就是前總統蔡英文在2020年其實也曾公開宣布將推動憲改廢除考試院當前最重要的改革就是憲政改革民進黨將推動憲改其中就有廢除考試院這一項的改革所以被提名你知道國會改革組織的改造本來就是要創造 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
252.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
270.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
Iwan Nawi是一個比較有效率的民主政府但我們知道國家考試有另外聘請找學者當命名的命題的整個的委員像典氏、鄉氏委員還有越建還有越眷的委員監察考試還是由監察院的監委來擔任監事委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
273.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
297.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就算依據憲法第83條的規定．或根據考試院組織的執掌．與重要的業務的說明．表示所有的考試院的業務．其實都已經有其所屬單位．各施其職了那請問你認為．人事的任用權和考選權．是否應該統一有一個機關來執掌就好呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
299.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
326.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
跟委員報告我們國家施行五權分立的這個憲政體制那考試院根據憲法增修條文第6條的規定那多年來在考試院所屬三部會所有同仁共同的努力之下那我們敬敬業業的把所有的工作都做到盡量做到最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
328.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
344.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
現在我們跟行政院那邊的分工其實也非常明確大家就依照憲法增修條文的分工原則各自所思各自做自己分內應該做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
345.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
366.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
就我自己在全序部服務這麼多年我覺得目前考試院不管是在辦理考試或者是全序部這邊負責的人事法制業務、官制、官規多年來都做得很努力同仁也都非常的盡職我覺得現階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
369.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
411.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好所以那你覺得考試委員究竟有什麼重要必要的功能因為看來我這樣看來感覺是酬庸子因為保障四年座領部長級的高薪還有專屬的司機和助理其實都比我們立法委員還優渥那請問被提名的你知不知道考試委員平常在做些什麼還知不知道考試院的功能還有他的職長和重要最重要的業務是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
413.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
427.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
考試院是一個合意制雖然很多的業務推動主要第一步是在三個部會但是三個部會所做出來的比如說全序部 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
450.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他修任何的人事法規他都要呈報到考試院所以我們考試委員的職責除了協助考選部把各項的考試做好然後也必須協助另外兩個部會把人事法制的相關法規的工作能夠做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
472.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那這個整個的法案送到考試院來考試院他必須要召開相關的審查會那有的時候甚至一個法案的審查會要開高達十幾次這個比較複雜的法案必須開十幾次我跟委員報告我自己在當司長的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
473.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我曾經負責法官法的嚴定當時法官法跟施行細則在我們考試院審查會就開了十次所以所有的考試委員都也必須要投入這樣的一個法制審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
489.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
515.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那另外像我們在進行服務法的修正那是一個高難度的法案那也是在考試院的院會經過多次的討論反覆的研究之後才能夠把法案送出所以所有的考試委員並不像外界所想的好像每天都因應美袋子都沒有試做其實他有很多的法案的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
516.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
537.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
538.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
宣導外界對考試院執掌功能的不了解和誤解 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
550.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好那再請問一下齁被提名人因為你現職雖然已經退休了嘛齁但是由你個人的簡介瞭解你這這輩子幾乎都是在考試院的全序部服務嘛齁最後的當到全序部的常務次長那113年1月16號藉您的退休是不是這樣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
571.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那這表示你長期服務在全序部然後對人事法規還有公務人員的整個人事規定其實是非常的專業的是不是對我服務了42年在全序部 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
586.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
604.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
最相信被提名的你的文官的生涯對於考試院的運作和行政的人事行政上面的管理的相關的法制肯定是非常的專業和熟悉而且有一定相當豐富的參與審議的保障救濟案件的實務經驗是吧有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
605.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
630.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好那接下來我就想要請問一下被提名的一個有關最近新聞比較吵的沸沸揚揚的真實的案例就是最近公務人員最熱門的新聞議題就是有關勞動部被分署發生基層公務人員被分署長謝宜榮因涉及霸凌導致自殺身亡的不幸事件謝宜榮因為涉及霸凌案所以直接被寄了兩大過免職 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
633.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
659.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
今年是否可以領到年終獎金行政院的官員表示要看當時是否有尋求救濟管道再依據結果如何而定以公務人員要領年終獎金需要12個月份的在職規定謝已被免職若沒有提救濟管道就是塵埃落定了所以應該就是領不到年終獎金官員表示以公務人員來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
660.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
687.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
考積平等就領不到年終獎金更何況是被祭兩大過上週五11月29號有行政院的官員接受媒體訪問的時候謝一榮也有權益跟自己所屬的機關提出救濟如果對結果不符合也可以再跟保訓會提一切都看救濟的結果的如何決定所以這表示他還是有機會走救濟管道來發案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
689.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
705.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
是的,因為我們的公務人員保障法．他的條文規定得很清楚．所有公務人員對於省政處分．如果有不符的話．那可以在30天之內向保訓會提起復審． |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
706.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
725.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那謝以榮我根據報紙的媒體的報導他是被勞動部一次計兩大過免職那這個根據考機法的規定一次計兩大過免職的人他必須先停職然後這個中間他可以再依照保障法的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
726.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
743.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
在30天之內跟保訓會提起複審那複審的結果他也可以再往上再走到台北高等行政法院去提起行政訴訟這個是我們現在公務人員的一個保障的救濟的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
744.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
772.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以像我以立法院來為例我們的人事處其實都有訂定防治跟申訴的處理要點對申訴人都有完整的申訴程序的規定包括要提出申訴然後還要組成調查處理小組還要訪談調查做成調查報告然後還要簽奉院長的核定然後含雙方的當事人如果雙方不服的話調查結果可以再向本院再提出申訴再次組成調查小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
773.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
787.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
作出調查報告如果再不服才可以在保訓會提出再申訴可是雖然目前勞動部已經這樣的處理的方式看起來大家好像都是非常的滿意但是暫時消除了眾人的怒火但問題是我發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
789.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
813.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
謝宜蓉好像非常到現在還是非常的有底氣好像完全不是很真誠的道歉的態度所以我想請問一下被提名人依照你長期在全序部的專業根據公務人員考機法第12條規定各機關辦理公務人員平時的考核和專業的考機是被計兩大過和免職那機關辦理考機是否都要設置考機委員會呢由考機委員會來決定考機的結果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
817.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
839.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
根據我們考機法的規定各機關應該都要設考機委員會除了少數人數比較少的比如說鄉鎮市民代表會那種人數少的以外我們基本上各機關都要設置考機委員會考機委員會它也有規定它必須要有票選委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
841.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
844.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
Iwan NawiIwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
869.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
898.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
去發布這個獎懲令那隔天就必須要停職那看他自己提不提起這個救濟程序所以剛才你這樣講的就是機關如果做出他的考機行政審處處分之後是他再送到會再送到考試院的的權序部審定嗎如果權序部認為辦理專案考機過程有違反相關的考機法規定依法是否還會再退回原機關作為釋法的處分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
900.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
929.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們的專案考積他其實應該是說機關計了一次計兩大過之後那他的獎懲令發布了之後要先辦停職那這個全序部會先受理他的停職案那但是他考積免職案的確定是從他那個確定之日免職是從確定之日起生效那這個確定之日就看他 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
929.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
957.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
自己有沒有提起救濟而且救濟到第幾個層級那個時間就會不一樣所以每一個被一次濟兩大過的人他的確定時間會不一樣看他救濟的程序據說謝宜龍當天沒有出席考機會陳述和申辯依照你的專業這樣你認為謝宜龍這樣因為霸凌而導致同人自殺案件被濟兩大過免職那是不是有直接關係呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
959.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
967.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
因為他如果都沒有出席的話而且我還發現這兩大過的免職的懲處處分過程勞動部似乎也沒有召開人品會和考機會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
970.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
990.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個他個案的狀況其實我都是經由媒體報導知道那真實的狀況可能要看勞動部他們自己內部的調查那但是所有的程序依照考機法的規定都應該要進行程序的規定就是要經過考機委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
992.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1012.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
被提名你也是經過國家考試在全序部一路從科研逐漸高升到長次再退休的那如果像謝業龍最後公務人員真的被免職了這樣雖然不具考試任用的公務人員或常任文官那請問未來他還是可以當機要人員和政務官嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1014.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1029.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
跟委員報告我們公務人員被一次計兩大過免職確定之後那現行的法制他是可以再任的也就是說他只是免掉他現職那他還有具有公務人員的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1030.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1033.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1045.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1066.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
對免職的公務員我們比照這個懲戒撤職撤必須要停止任用一至五年的這個規定在考機法的修正案有提了他免職之後要至少一年不能再任那這個是我們現行法治上如果一個公務人員他犯錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1068.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1097.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
上司公務人員任用資格那個必須要走懲戒這一條路那如果被移赴懲戒那懲戒處分裡面的第一項就是免除職務那免除職務呢那個是免掉他的限職之外他也從此不再具有公務人員任用資格就是那個公務人員的資格是上司的所以除非是免職的免除職務這個懲戒處分他就不能夠再任公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1098.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1103.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那依照現行的規定免職是可以在任是他還是可以當政務官嗎 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1105.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1132.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
呃...就是連...所以我就依照你專業的回答啦你認為因為這件事情是真是蠻重大也是蠻惡劣的所以你認為最近謝業榮這個霸凌同仁的案件會不會反而是一個過場的行政瑕疵而且感覺是一種騙局一場好像行政院跟勞動部演了一個大戲給全民來看然後我也發現全體的國會的議員好像也是被勞動部和行政院整個欺騙了這樣所以我才想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1132.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1153.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
所以謝宜龍或許才會有這種囂張的行徑因為他準備要走救濟的管道企圖要恢復整個公職的身份恢復他的一切的權益我想請教依照你這方面的專業嘛我看你的那個上面寫的履歷是這方面的專業那你要怎麼看待謝宜龍遭處分案件這個的疑義呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1155.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1156.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
委員會提起救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1186.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1186.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1207.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1228.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
他將來即使要在任那也必須要有機關首長肯用他那我想每一個機關首長將來要禁用這樣的公務人員他自己要多加的考量因為這個會牽涉到社會輿論的觀瞻那大家對這個事情的看法雖然久了也許會比較淡忘 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1229.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1250.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
但是用他的機關必須要有很大的勇氣否則將來也是全民注目的一件事件好 謝謝時間到 不好意思謝謝林益君委員的諮詢也謝謝呂秋慧女士的備詢對不起 |
| IVOD_ID |
157731 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157731 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-03 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-03T11:42:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-03T12:03:02+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |