| video_url |
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| 委員名稱 |
翁曉玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:23:18 - 10:44:04 |
| 影片長度 |
1246 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
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院長好有請王教授麻煩再請王教授備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.763 |
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王委員好因為您是算是這個才剛剛卸任的委員但是因為被提名所以如果這次我們的考試委員人是按您順利通過的話您將會是續任的委員所以我在這裡還是稱呼您王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.471 |
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60.726 |
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是這樣的我們知道其實就現在因為考試院在8月30號所有的委員都卸任所以現在考試院的狀況是怎麼樣還可以開考試院院會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
92.249 |
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因為我們在卸任前為了讓國家考試或是一些公務人員的權益能夠更順暢所以有提了就是修改議事規則還有考試院會的組成是 那麼我在這裡我想請教您考試院的主體到底是誰考試委員是考試院的核心成員嗎是核心主體嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
93.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
105.043 |
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我想以我十三屆的經驗核心主體就是院長、副院長、考試委員還有三部會首長所以就是三部會首長是可以取代考試委員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
107.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
132.9 |
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我想現在是在我們說的不得已的狀況就是權宜措施為了處理緊急必要的一些事項所以這也是雖然有一些就是不很周全的地方但是這是為了就是考生的權益本席認為沒有考委的考試院就是違法違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
160.573 |
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大家叫我想您這個作為考試委員您應該很清楚知道考試院組織法還有憲法增修條文的規定考試院是設院長、副院長、考試委員只有院會的時候現在的規定是說這個三個部會首長可以一起出席參加會議但是就考試院的本身來講應該還是考試委員為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
185.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
對 那現在如果說一個考試院．可以不需要考試委員．九位考試委員可以不用出席．只有三位部會首長．就可以去參加考試院院會．然後做成決議．那這樣其實我．平常講我一直在思考．我今天審查考試委員的目的是什麼所以謝謝委員．就是因為． |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
214.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
不得已的權宜措施是不得已嗎我認為說這其實不是不得已而是我是認為說其實現在民進黨政府在玩一個策略就是反正你們這些委員這個重要人事案不同意通過也沒有關係下面的三級機關的首長就可以主持了啊就跟NCC委員也是一樣的意思明明都已經我們法律通過他應該現在要離開了還是要讓他繼續再當大法官也是一樣明明15個大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
221.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
237.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
然後卸任了七個八個大法官還是繼續在運作他根本不care就是考試委員到底通不通過反正現在三個部會首長權敘部、保訓會還有考選部部長你們就可以決定考試院的事情了他們就可以決定考試院的事情了不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
251.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為就是卸任之前有一些必要的就是對所以我認為說你們卸任之前做的考試院院會會議規則的修正那是一個錯誤的愚蠢的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為這個再度的證明其實這只是證明了考試院沒有考試委員無所謂一點都不重要反正考試委員假設這一次沒有一個人通過沒有關係考試院的剩下那三個部會首長繼續運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
295.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我必須講我是真的覺得很遺憾看到考試院委員們尤其您又作為前屆的委員您當時也大概也知道這個考試院會議規則的修正在此之前我其實就已經跟考試院秘書長有嚴正的說過這個事情這是一個違憲的違法的一個去修正這樣的會議規則因為真的是把你們考試委員架空了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
說實在話從8月到現在大概4個月的時間沒有考試委員的考試院不能運作嗎可以所以我們為什麼要花人民的公帑再去聘請9位考試委員這是很糟糕的事情所以我要講的就是考試院組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
現在的規定說這個考試院的院會議規則考試院院會由三位部會首長可以一起出席這樣的一個規定我認為是很不適當對比看看監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
344.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
367.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
監察院的會議規則裡面其實也只有講他是由院長、副院長及監察委員組織這個才是監察委員才是監察院的主體考試委員才是考試院的主體監察院也沒有講說省進部部長可以參加監察院的會議可以參加監察院的院會是初期 它只是列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
368.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
385.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以理論上來講你現在的考選部部長、權序部部長還有這個保續會委員應該是要以列席的方式來參加考試院院會他出席院會的意思是什麼代表他可以自己投票自己做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
407.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這不是球員兼裁判嗎所以今天沒有考試院院會的考試委員沒有考試委員的考試院院會其實是更好考選部部長自己提了案子其他兩個部會首長拍手叫好就同意通過了他哪需要你們考試委員去投票請問一下如果您繼續假設您有幸擔任考試委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
416.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
428.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
您會主張要修法嗎把考試院組織法裡面將三個部會首長出席的這個條文修改只讓他們列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我的看法就是說我們13屆委員的組成就是9位考試委員加上院長、副院長還有就是三部會的首長其實14位來講過去的4年其實都還蠻順暢的有個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
463.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有一個優點就是說其實他們不會比可能不會比委員人數還多但是有一個優點就是說他們在會議的發言權或是這些請問一下他們有投票權嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
465.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
482.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
現在是有投票但是過去的13屆委員從來沒有用投票來表決議案合議制但是有一些不同的意見其實都會透過之前院會之前或審查會之前來溝通協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
485.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
500.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
總之我已經提出了這個問題我認為這是很重要的事情因為這個基本上就證明了考試委員到底重不重要這也可以請王委員自己去思考另外我接下來講的就是有關於波波醫生的問題因為其實這段時間波波醫生的爭議也引起了本土醫生派跟外國 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
510.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
516.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一生派互相交戰本席認為關鍵點還是在於考試院與衛福部之間的問題您之前曾經擔任過衛生署副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
535.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
556.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你擔任衛生署副署長的時候那時候應該已經知道有波波醫生的這件事了吧其實我們所謂的外國學歷波蘭回來的這些學生的問題已經有一段時間了是那在當時你當擔任副署長的時候都沒有想到說有心要去解決這個問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
558.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
584.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
其實過去已經醫事司那時候醫事處也有做過相關的法規那是因為時程也蠻多久了就是有不同的法規的修正所以其實從衛福部的角度來講會認為東歐國家的醫學院的學歷的證明基本上是沒有辦法去佐證這些畢業的醫學生的醫生的實力是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
585.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我想這樣就是說因為醫師就是醫事人員都一樣就是說尤其是醫師他的考試資格是定在醫師法那醫師法就是變成高位那考選部的立場就是考試院的立場就是審查考試資格那考試資格就必定要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
613.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
637.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
衛福部依據醫師法來訂定的那簡單來說就是說現在這群所謂的在東歐國家畢業醫學院的學生回來台灣考過了國家考試那你們認為他們是不夠那個資格嗎他們的考試即便他們通過了考試甚至可能還名列前茅你們還是同樣的認為他們是不夠格嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
639.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
663.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我覺得這個就是要看就是職業主管機關怎麼去認定就是說認定學歷因為您曾經擔任過副署長所以您對於整個衛福部的業務是了解的您認為衛福部他們現在所開出來的這樣子的一個條件或者是學歷的認證證明是不充足的嗎是不夠充分的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
665.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
687.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
細緻上我也是看媒體關心這個問題我相信衛福部現在目前已經在研議更嚴謹跟就是通常我們就是認證學歷就是跟我們國家的學制呢顯有相當那當然這個就是看看怎麼去認定那個資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
689.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
708.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝王委員說實在話衛福部他們已經修了相關的條件就是外國學歷的認證的條件越修越嚴格那麼我要講的就是說是因為現在這些東歐國家他們加入歐盟體系所以即便是德國、法國這些國家他們也是認同、也是認可 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
709.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
713.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
波蘭等等這些國家的醫學院的畢業生．同樣也是要經過他們國家的考試．才能夠取得在當地國家的醫師資格．同樣的道理其實在臺灣也是如此．今天衛福部又說對於實習分發名只能夠有50個不能再擴充． |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
729.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
754.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
現在問題就是說因為已經有了這幾百位甚至上千位還沒有實習過的畢業生而他們也通過了考選部的國家考試所以我本席認為站在考試院的立場你們還是要去設法去解決這個問題要跟衛福部好好的去談未來的考試要怎麼舉辦甚至這些實習名額要怎麼去分配否則大家還是把帳會算在考試院的頭上 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
757.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
784.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
是 針對這個問題我想就是教育部、考選部還有衛福部應該要坐下來一起來談是的好的 那麼接下來我還有一個另外一個重要也是我蠻關心的問題我們知道其實現在有公務人員的相關法規從公務人員服務法、公務人員考機法、福利法、保障法等等非常多與公務人員相關的法規但是政務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
785.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
803.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
到現在卻沒有一個很完整的法律配套措施就沒有一個完整的法律規範請問您是否認同我們應該要將政務人員的規範法制化訂立一個專法明訂政務人員法 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
807.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
827.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
像那個廣義的公務人員確實是包括政務人員那到底說政務人員也是受服務法這些還有行政中立法這些的規範那到底是要專法或是怎麼樣能夠讓他密度更強我覺得這個是可以討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
828.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
847.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那個事實上考試院在2019年也曾經有提出了一個政務人員法的草案那麼當時呢其實應該有送到立法院但沒有想到反對的是行政院行政院說考試院沒有權責不可以提出政務人員法請問王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
852.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
879.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
您支持行政院的說法嗎您在這件事情上面怎麼看到底誰是政務人員法的主管機關因為其實考試院雖然是獨立行使職權但是很多的政策其實都要跟行政院有一些相關的溝通讓這個法制更周全所以我覺得這個議題現在行政院說你們沒有資格提法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
881.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
892.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你會認為考試院沒有資格提政務人員法的草案嗎我覺得可以來討論就是兩方到底是有沒有什麼困難或是怎麼樣比較周延 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
894.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
919.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
行政院說如果說是由考試院來提政務人員法的草案的話這個是不適當的因為所有的政務人員幾乎都是在行政院的底下所以考試院沒有資格提政務人員法草案但是有趣的是我們現在政務人員的退職退輔條例的主管機關是哪個機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
921.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
950.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
是全序部考試院是全序部考試院所以我認為說考試院你們應該堅定你們的立場這個才是你們重要的職長讓行政院自己去訂一個政務人員法的草案他會去規範政務人員應該要秉持行政中立嗎尤其像現在民進黨政府他會去積極的去規範這個政務官不可以參與政治活動不可以選舉的時候去站台嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
953.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
979.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
不會嘛所以這就是考試院的重要其實我一直不贊成廢考監我認為在中華民國五權憲法的架構底下它其實本來是有作用的只是換了一個不了解憲法不認真的去思考當時國父孫中山先生所提出的五權分立的這樣一個精神的民進黨政府它把五權機關搞爛了 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
982.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1007.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
考試院本來應該是獨立行使職權 監察院也是所以我認為 本席認為您如果接下來作為考試委員我覺得還是要能夠承擔考試院的職權職務而不是說是行政院說什麼 賴總統說什麼你們就把你們的職權拱手讓人 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1010.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1039.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這是很不恰當的是很不妥當的否則的話我真的不覺得為什麼我們還要花我們還要去聘請九位考試委員好那接下來呢我要再問一個再這個繼續就是再請您就是就這個我們也是立法院要提出關於這個公務人員也就是所謂的退休人員年改的這個相關修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1040.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1064.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那麼王委員您因為長期也都在學界您現在已經辦理退休了嗎現在還沒有退休還沒有退休或者是私校是是是不過同樣的道理啦如果說您今天已經要退休了或是即將退休就會沒想到呢你們的這個學校或是政府說你的這個退休金很抱歉因為我們財務困難我付不出來所以要扣減 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1069.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1071.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
您會認同這樣的說法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1072.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1099.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我想因為年改就是說10年所得替代率最終目標那現在已經走到一半了我們是不是就是說因為也有一些就是積極的一些策略來讓公務人員退休公務人員能夠更好的生活好是這個王委員我要講一件事就是錯誤的政策應該讓他繼續走下去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1102.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1129.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個其實對於軍公教退休人員的影響非常大他不只是對軍公教退休人員影響很大甚至連現在軍公教人員的禁用都已經受到這個相關的影響因為大家以前認為說當了軍公教人員我是一個安定的工作雖然說薪水可能比不上外面的公司的待遇但是可以預期未來的退休生活我的退休是有保障的所以才願意這個來 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1132.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1156.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
當任國家的公僕可是現在的情況你把軍公教退休人員的退休金本來已經都拿到手上而且預期國家應該會保障的結果一個政策大轉彎然後大砍軍公教的退休金這叫已經退休的人他們是很難過的心裡會覺得很難過 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1160.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1186.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
對那現在的整個通貨膨脹各方面其實真的這小小的退休金已經很難讓他們這個滿足他們的生活所以我基本上不認同您的說法說因為這個政策已經走不到一半所以要讓它走完它明明它就是一個錯誤的政策我們就應該要暫停好所以再請您表達一下您的看法您是否支持我們立法院這次所提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1187.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1211.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
修法要將現在已經錯誤的政策喊停我想已經就是各種考量了因為制度的穩定性也是很重要還有就是因為未來年輕世代的一些負擔等等那所以在考試院下可以做的CPI值如果累計5%的話那到目前為止111年 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1214.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1235.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
王委員您還是不太在乎您的同事、學界同事、軍公教人員的福利保障我就要講就是政府口口聲聲說財務虧損沒有錢去補這些退收金但是他可以每年花這麼多的錢去買軍售去撥補五千億給台電不要說沒有錢以上謝謝翁曉琳委員資訊也謝謝王教授的備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1242.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1245.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
請 |
| IVOD_ID |
157721 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157721 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-03 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-03T10:23:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-03T10:44:04+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |