| IVOD_ID |
157705 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157705 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-29 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-29T15:41:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-29T16:01:35+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/884fcb4bd77b7063b56efc7a93f3c1af4bb3245ee31dfdd0e867e6df39dfd90ac89ebdc37aa605965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡易餘 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:41:07 - 16:01:35 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-29T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席那是有請我們備題名人邱備題名人備題名人請答詢蔡委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
47.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
邱委員、邱老師很高興可以在考試委員的審查會我相信可以就幾個議題可以跟邱老師來探討我們知道邱老師本身是工程背景工程背景事實上也會讓我們發現在基層普遍在反映的一件事情就是基層公務員工程背景的人留不住人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
66.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
這個留不住人才有蠻多因素的首先在任何機關不管是中央機關或是地方機關尤其越基層的機關在三級政府的鄉鎮公所幾乎是留不住包括土木包括工程類的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
95.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那這主要也是來自於說第一個他們的工作辛苦第二個他們本身在工作上附帶的風險高第三個如果這些人才他們到民間他們會有更好的待遇所以變成在於這些人留在公務系統替我們政府來做事的意願是不高的所以我想要請教邱老師你對這一塊未來你當考試委員後你會有怎樣的一個具體的主張嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
115.052 |
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謝謝蔡委員我想這個工程類科的缺額其實是非常明顯的像去年的話大概缺了130幾位建築的話我講的是土木建築的話大概是缺了11位所以缺額的情況是非常清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
141.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
但是由他的能不能留任跟他的大環境是有關係跟我們的大環境有關係外面的這個待遇師部門的待遇可能比公務員好一點所以這個是整個經濟環境的一個狀況那考試院這邊我看到相關的資料他們是希望說也可能從私人部門也能夠讓專機人員轉任公務員這是一個應急之道 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
169.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
但是另外一方面在考試方面是不是讓這個工程類科的人他將來在找工作的時候能夠切合這個用人機關的一個需求所以這個部分的溝通其實非常重要我們準考試委員我想跟你分享一下因為我看到好多基層的這個工程界的第一個他們不想留在工程單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他們在工程單位他們盡量會去爭取去調到非實際工程單位這是第一個我覺得比較麻煩的第二個就是說他們在公務員任職期間他們會盡量去考計師只要一旦他們有民間的計師的牌照他們就離開公務系統這個非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
190.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
210.068 |
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可惜啦因為我覺得我們最近有這麼多的預算包括這幾年的前瞻預算以及公務預算我們在投資這些工件的一些計畫的時候基本上都是需要這些基層的公務員他們在第一線不管是在做工程的設計或者是事後工程的把關都是需要他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
236.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那當然今年8月1號我看到行政院有公布一個命令就是針對工程人才無法留在公務系統他們有做幾個是用獎金包括要用專業家籍專業家籍說你實際從事公務我就每個月給你三千塊包括說我給你留任獎金留任獎金就是分第一年、第三年、第五年那就給他三萬塊、四萬五跟六萬年底給 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
237.236 |
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260.813 |
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就是說他希望把他的配他的薪資待遇拉高然後來促使這些人是希望他留在公務但是我覺得這個火候還是不夠啊力道還是不夠因為我相信真正這些好的人才他在民間一定會有更好的待遇所以這部分涉及到了整個這些優秀的人才而且他實際上從事公務 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
286.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我覺得最基本的還是待遇不足的問題那我想就教一下我們被提名人就這樣你覺得好的人才到底要怎麼樣才讓他可以留在我們的公務系統呢委員是的確是看到一個很重要的議題現在在外面缺工的情況是非常嚴重那當然公司部門的待遇的相互競爭也是一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
288.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我現在看到像學校因為我過去在學校服務學校裡面有所謂的彈性薪資彈性薪資意思就是說我有一個專案的計畫我們可以把這個經費調整調整以後它就會超過了它現在的本質的經費這個薪資甚至有些薪資大學教授可能高過於部會所長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以這種情況也是有的所以我的意思是說我非常贊同委員的看法在薪資結構方面的調整有沒有更大的一個彈性甚至運用一些專案計畫的一個經費來做這個挹注對 所以我是覺得這個檢討起來就專業人員我們不要讓他的專業讓他平庸化 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
338.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
357.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這幾年他有專頁,這類專頁值得多少Page值得多少政府應該要給他的薪水就應該要盡量拉高,這是我一個主張我希望未來您當選考試委員後,你也可以支持這樣然後來支持這些基層的工程人員,可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那第二個是關於因為台灣的因為是考試院嘛那考試院當然在這個教考訓用這樣的一個一條邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
394.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一條邊的方式當然這個也是跟一條邊的方式就是由考試院來尋找人才以及做人才上如何去發配到各機關去這是一條邊的一個方式但是在於我們鄰近的國家日本跟韓國他不是用這樣的方式他是直接由選才機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
418.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
選才之官自己辦考試然後自己去面試他想要的人這樣是兩條不同的形式那我想要請教我們被提名人你對於這樣兩個形式基本上你認為我們現在的方法會優於日韓嗎還是日韓有它的優點 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
447.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
跟委員報告我們公務人員的這個體制文官受到保障或者是他的臨用其實是憲法的一個架構之下所以公務人員要進來的話他必須經過國家的考試但是國外確實是有很多的一些測驗的機構或者民間機構來做選擇甚至他考試的時候可能分階段第一個可能是基本考基本類科的考試再來就是用人機關的面試 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
449.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
Iwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
471.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
被提名的你也不排斥說未來我們打破一條邊讓各機關可以他們自行去臨選不管是他們自行召辦考試、自行去面試、去找他們要來臨載 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
486.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
507.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這一條選材方式你認為也不用去排斥就對了我覺得長期來看是可以來討論可以來考慮但是現在的情況就是說以公務人員的體系來或許跟用人機關之間有更密切的一個聯繫我覺得這個部分是可以在現在就可以來進行但是未來剛剛委員關心的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
508.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
536.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是不是兩個軌道這個方式這是比較涉及到長期的一個制度性的問題所以我想我們我會把這個意見請教我們的考試院同仁來進行更整密的一個研究好那再來就叫一個就是關於這個商調的因為現在很多機關事實上在公務員事實上常常遇到商調的時候要原機關同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
546.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那很多公務員礙於沒有辦法取得原機關的同意他可能會做一件事他重新考因為我沒辦法調到其他的機關我訂課 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
548.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
574.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我重考然後再想辦法分發到其他的一個機關那我認為說基本上這樣的一個方式變得說他對於公務員的商調相對沒有彈性他就是卡在原機關同意甚至我們之前有在爭取就是說你公務員他有1到3歲的子女要養的時候我們盡量讓他擴大他的彈性可以到他 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
575.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
以就養、撫養小孩子方便的地方來做公務機關的一個任職但是還是原機關要同意所以這個原機關同意這件事就造成了公務員他們流動的一個困難那我想要請教貝琦你上任後就這樣一個商調的現行的規定有可能來做你的主張來做一些修正或者是你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
605.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我想我這個部分會把委員的意見帶回去讓我們考試院來做一個討論特別是這個部分剛剛提到是非常實際的問題例如說有很多的育嬰假的他要請假或是他要上吊的時候他必須經過原機關同意但是原機關可能就沒辦法同意讓他就非常的困難只好另謀出路 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
但是這個部分是牽涉到未來國內的資源人才庫怎麼樣建立一個比較完善的一個流用的一個制度或者是將來跟戶調的一個方式我想這個涉及到整個人才庫的一個建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
645.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
662.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那委員的這個關心我會把他帶回去因為未來如果你當選後考試委員畢竟就是跟公務員就是要站著會所以未來也許你的立場會跟立法院不一樣可是我期待的考試委員應該要更站在公務人員的一個立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
678.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
把公務人員的心聲把他帶出來那讓我們在未來我們立法院在立法的時候可以聽到你們替公務人員發聲然後我們來來修法修的也許讓他更有彈性或者是讓公務員更可以符合他們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
679.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
708.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
在任職的時候的一個比較好的一個福祉的一個環境還有我剛剛有講到的考試的一個問題公務員考試現在公務員考試很多機關事實上還是有所謂的體能考試那我常常遇到遇到那種就是比試過了結果就卡在這個體能的一個測試尤其是像在拉單槓或者是百米的跑步或者是立定跳遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
710.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
724.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
有時候就差一點點差一點點 變成他那一次的比試就沒了未來要再重考他就要把時間繼續耗在他的準備考試上 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
725.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
750.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那我覺得這件事也有它不合理的地方就是說既然我筆試已經過了那為什麼我這個筆試不能仿照像會計師他有做保留的幾年因為他是差在提示那結果就等於說他要把他的時間耗在準備考試身上對 所以我想要請教這部分我們被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
756.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
771.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
考試資格的保留跟未來的體能訓練的部分是不是可以有一個比較彈性的處理這其實是應該要討論的我是覺得這個部分我會把這個意見帶回去讓我們同仁一起來研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
772.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
786.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
基本上呢如果我們回歸到憲法的規定這些憲法的規定就是公務人員政府不應該歧視任何的一個種族啊或者是一個人一個族群嘛所以在公平的這個倒也不是歧視這個是變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
788.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
807.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我每個人的體能狀況不一樣嘛像有的人他拉杠杆比較適合像我現在啦可能一下都拉不上去所以縱使我很高科技的沒好因為我一次都拉不上去的不過這個當然是有年齡的年齡事實上也已經超過了就是我講的意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
808.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
830.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
因為卡在體能這個因素造成他的筆試無效要等來年再來一次我覺得這件事情是有檢討的空間那我也希望說你不只是要把他帶回去而已你們應該考試委員嘛你們可以有你們的一個見解很多事情我知道要特別修緩不過本來這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
834.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
859.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
現在五權分立的一個架構之下那考試委員我希望就是說可以聽取民意的考試委員可以接地氣的大家的意見你們如果收集起來你們覺得要怎麼去修法你們事實上還是有你們可以提出修法的建議嘛然後由我們立法院這邊看大家就修法這邊來交換意見我希望考試委員可以多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
860.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
879.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主張然後認為說應該哪部分要調整那就應該要替這些公務員來做主張以及這些參加考試的人我想這個在未來的考試規則裡面我們再仔細的去思考有沒有其他比較彈性的一個做法或者是說比較合理的一個處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
882.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
907.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
最後我想請教貝提銘人因為貝提銘人你的自傳裡面你也強調說國家考試為國舉財那事實上你的專業是在海洋領域這一塊那你在海洋領域裡面有很多的一些你的主張跟見解那看起來現在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
910.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
936.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
賴清德在520就職的演說有確認三個國家方向其中一個就是探索海洋就是要把台灣是一個海洋國家我們台灣的人民是海洋的公民擁有海洋文化的DNA那所以如何讓台灣跟海洋是親近的那尤其未來我們知道包括在於這一個探會裡面其中燃炭的部分就是在強調這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
938.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
952.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
海洋要怎麼樣 未來造就了這些碳匯的價值或者是我們台灣因為過去海禁 我們跟海的距離太遠那未來我們要怎麼親近海洋 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
953.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
973.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那這部分是不是有辦法從公務體系公務人員的一個訓練開始讓這個公務體系是可以更親近海洋的我想請教一下被提名人你有怎樣的報復讓你的對於台灣要親近海洋這個主張可以在你任職考試委員的時候讓他有更有發揮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
976.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
988.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我以澳洲的海洋政策白筆書提出三個願景一個叫做Understanding就是我們關心海洋 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
995.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1016.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
但是我們也要了解海洋然後再來是永續的利用海洋所以這個部分臺灣有那麼多的海洋資源而且我們是以海為生的一個國家包括我們的漁業、遠洋漁業包括我們的航運等等其實還包括我們現在談到這個近年碳排的時候燃炭的一個部分到底怎麼處理我覺得這個教育非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1016.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1044.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
當然這裡面不是說每一個部會都各做各的所以現在正在修訂的這個叫做國家海洋政策白皮書它就是一個統整的一個方向希望各個部會都能一起來做不管是科研的、我們的產業的發展還有包括我們的這個將來的資源的一個分配那最重要的就是環境的教育、海洋的教育所以我想這個部分應該可以大力的來推動那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1045.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1072.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
很重要就是說親海愛海你必須要讓民眾接見海洋所以海岸的安全性它相關的設施它的相關的教育甚至跟地方上社區、學校、大學的結合這一點就非常的重要所以我想如果從這個方面一方面讓我們民眾來瞭解海洋、探索海洋但是更重要就是說我們追求我們相關的一些發展的機會讓國家能夠更為富強 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1074.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1100.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那被提名有可能把海洋領域的一些專業知識或者是一些對海洋的瞭解有可能未來成為考試的命題嗎這個在海洋行政類科裡面它有分為幾個考試的科目那事實上我看過他們過去的這些考題都有這方面的知識包括海洋的一些科學基礎的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1101.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1129.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
海洋科普的東西海洋政策的東西都有在這裡面所以我想以後應該考試院這邊會繼續加強這個部分就我還想跟北京朋友們分享以我的看法現在的公務人員對於海洋基本上還是保守甚至抗拒當然有例外就是海巡可能他們就親近海了嘛海委會當然他們就是以海為主但是我跟你分享的就是說你知道像農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1132.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1155.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
從業部好幾千億的預算那其中關於漁業署多少預算你知道嗎我直接跟你說因為這個就100億而已三四千億的預算漁業署只有100億那這是為什麼就是因為不重視少了關心我相信署長你對海洋這麼認識你覺得台灣有幾個漁港是會看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1160.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1182.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我們去台灣看每一個國家事實上漁港漁港就是這個都市發展就是大概從港區開始往內陸發展結果台灣不一樣台灣是越走到港越破敗人口越老化越凋零然後那裡都沒有整修甚至你說我們的漁港有郵載可能一定一個郵載是十幾年前的事情後來就沒有郵載過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1185.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1204.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以現在那些漁港都充滿著這個被海浪衝擊然後造成的那些污漬都在那個牆壁上然後也沒有去整理我覺得這一個依北京沒有你對海洋的瞭解我們對於沿海地區的漁港它就是長這個樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1205.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1226.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那這是為什麼呢就是公務員他的本質心態並沒有覺得漁港的一個美麗才是代表台灣這個海洋國家的一個美的一個開始沒有這樣的心態我覺得很可惜好謝謝蔡委員 |