| IVOD_ID |
15768 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15768 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-22-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-28T08:30:47+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-28T11:47:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:16:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373da91999d46b611e4458d85e2d08749d243be8d109af184be4c757bd1e9428ebc95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。（3月27日及28日二天一次會）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:47 - 11:47:00 |
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報告委員會我們現在繼續開會今天議程是邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況．並備質詢首先我們介紹在場委員 委員還沒有到好 那我們來介紹與會的官員我們核安會主任委員陳東陽陳竺偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1789.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1813.768 |
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還有我們副主任委員張欣副主任委員也兼任國家原子能科技研究院董事長還有我們核安會主任秘書王崇德主任秘書核安會輻射偵測中心陳志平主任核安會綜合規劃組李啟思組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1817.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1842.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
核安管制組．高彬組長．輻射防護組．張淑君組長．保安應變組．廖家群組長．核物料管制組．陳鴻斌組長．秘書是．邱清威主任．人事是．吳建業主任． |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1845.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1869.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
主計是何雲英主任鄭豐市張文豪主任還有約子能科技研究院高子牧院長好我們現在洪孟凱委員到場還有柯志恩召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1873.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1878.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那我們現在就請核能安全委員會陳主任委員進行報告報告時間8分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1890.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1907.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
主席各位委員女士先生大家好今天很榮幸代表核能安全委員會並協同各單位主管向大院進行業務報告首先向大院委員對本會各項工作的支持及指教至上敬意及謝承 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1908.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1935.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本會在去年9月27日改制為三級獨立機關原所屬核能研究所也改制為行政法人國家原子能科技研究院本會將秉持專業安全確保核安管制的獨立性做好核安守護核會處理的工作也會督同國研院持續遂行原子能科技研發的公共事務 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1937.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1963.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
以下僅就強化原子能安全管制等四項工作重點進行報告．敬請委員不吝指教。針對強化原子能安全管制部分．本會持續對國內運轉中及除役中的核電廠．進行各項的安全管制工作．包含核一二廠除役列管四項．以及核三廠運轉安全的管制跟追蹤． |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1965.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1992.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
．並將相關資訊對外公開．另外有關核電廠研議的議題．涉及國家能源政策．干除核會．法規等多個面向．均需取得社會共識．在落實輻射災害整備作業部分．持續透過家訪．科普展等多元管道．進行核安的防護宣導．今年核安演習規劃在核一廠． |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1994.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2018.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
及臨近地區舉行．此外跟離島的地方政府．辦理境外的核災演練．參加國際核子應變的演習．並跟美國合作執行核設施的應變．私通安全跟無人機的防範等技術交流．在提升輻射醫療品質方面． |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2019.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2048.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
執行醫院的服防跟醫療品保的作業檢查．並辦理護理人員巡迴講座．以確保民眾的輻射醫療的安全．辦理放射線照相檢驗作業的不預警稽查．移動型高風險社員科技監管的作業．以及輻射屋居民的健康檢查．跟道府健康關懷訪視等．放射性廢棄物的安全管制上． |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2049.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2062.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
嚴密審查除役所需的低放儲存庫．及室內乾式儲存設施的申請．並督促臺電公司落實民眾參與．在推動低放射性廢棄物的減量上． |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2066.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2081.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
核電廠112年已創立年新低此外本會議持續監督國園院和設施清理全國依農工產生的地方廢棄物的收除遛活化幼的境外處理等 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2083.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2096.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
因應日本福島核災寒川沸水的排放112年已經完成4270件的樣品檢測分析結果均在歷年的變動範圍內113年預計完成4376件的檢測分析此外我們也同時推動生物川的檢測量能預計由原先每年500件提升到每年2000件 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2112.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2132.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
建於各界關注日本川沸水的排放議題．本會持續精進海洋資訊的平台．以更親民的使用界面．傳遞正確且專業的科學資訊．包括新增海水107點的互動功能．即時掌握並發布日本排放動態的資訊等 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2135.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2155.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
接下來報告推廣原子能科技創新．在國際合作部分．今年除將持續跟美國、日本、法國等相關河岸管制機構進行交流外．也會持續關注國際的動態．跟各國拓展新的合作管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2157.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2182.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
原子能科技涵掛跨工程領域．跟各項的社會議題．本會持續跟國內的學研．法人機構進行合作交流．以厚實決策資源體系．多元化技術資源組織．並因應國際科技的趨勢．跨域整合本會原子能科技的研發政策跟成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2183.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2204.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
為了充實原子能科技的基礎研究跟人才培育本會跟國科會共同推動原子能科技的學術合作計畫以跨域合作的方式充實原子能科技在安全管制、醫農工以及人文社會領域的研究跟人才培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2205.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2217.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在推動社會溝通及參與的部分本會對社會關注的和安、福安管制議題的溝通模式邀請社會公正人士及民間團體給予指導及建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2221.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2236.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
另外除了實體科普展之外．以數位傳播的方式．辦理線上科普的研習活動．以增加原子能知識的普及化．縮短偏遠弱勢跟城鄉的差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2238.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2261.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
除了安全管制跟人才培育外．本會補助國研院執行各項專案計劃．因應產業的需求建立各項原子能關鍵技術．並配合國家進行轉型本土核電廠除役的自主技術的政策．發展能源及核後端的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2264.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2292.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
積極發展原子能物理的新穎技術．服務國內產業進行材料分析．及半導體晶變的可靠度測試另外因應臺灣精準健康．跟太空科技產業發展所需．建置70mEV的加速器．穩定國內合一藥物的供需．開發新型放射性的診療藥物．並提供太空直指的驗測環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2294.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2316.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在發展能源及後端技術方面．運用國研院和設施的清理經驗及技術．建立本土廚藝和廢處理的自主能力．並配合政府能源轉型的政策．開發儲能、電網韌性等綠能技術．另外建立自主關鍵材料跟儲能系統的檢測能量．協助國內外廠家產品開發跟驗證推廣． |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2322.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2347.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
本會將依法獨立行使職權．持續執行核安、復安、放射性廢棄物的安全處理．的安全管制工作．同時精進原子能技術發展．拓展相關的民生應用．並落實資訊公開跟民眾參與．以建立全民信任的核能安全委員會以上報告不盡之處進行委員指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2353.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2363.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
謝謝陳主委的口頭報告現在進行詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止時間為上午10點半 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2368.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2387.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
委員若臨時提案．也請於上午10點半前提出．並於本會委員范雲委員質詢．結束後即進行處理．處理提案時若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場．原例不予處理首先我們請發言登記第一位．洪孟楷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2398.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2400.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
主席謝謝麻煩請陳主委好有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2408.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2435.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主委好核安會第一次的業務報告本席一直希望是說能夠跟我們的部會首長都討論一些觀念性以及政策性的問題因為這才能夠了解國家重大方向以及各部會的態度以及負責任的立場首先本席有看到英國在最近有講說是核能的核電需求大英國要赤字80億促進核能產業的人力主委有看到這新聞嗎是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2438.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2454.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主委有看到說這兩天也傳出Amazon的這個公司他說要斥資208億買核能發電報導顯示是說用電需求與日劇增百分之百目前百分之百綠電不可行請教主委有看到這個新聞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2458.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2459.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
阿瑪隆說要賜資208億花費6.5億美元買核能以便全天候供應可靠的運作能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2477.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2486.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
來今天的一個新聞拜登政府說提供15億美元的貸款要讓密西根州一座美國已關閉的核電廠在2022年關閉的核電廠重啟有看到這新聞嗎有好 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2492.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2509.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以我們最近國內在討論沸沸揚揚的就是電價上漲的問題大家會覺得是說能源政策是不是有問題而台電的發電不管是效益不管是成本來做整個這樣配比的一個失衡而造成說連三年已經電價要調漲了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2512.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2523.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
電價調漲是物價的通貨膨脹、物價的全面提升所以我們現在也在思考是說能源政策要面對是安全、專業、合理、可靠大家要來共同選擇嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2524.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2542.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
英國的首相他講是說為什麼他們要赤字80億來做核能因為要卻迎來新一代的核能企業不只保障安全維持能源安全還能一勞永逸的降低我們的電費主委有看到嗎是的有沒有感覺很誘人 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2543.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2566.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
可以一勞永逸的降低我們的電費這是英國首相講的所以對比我們現在台灣的一個現況我想請教到底核能發電在目前來講不管是我們有講是說現在核二廠已經停擺核三廠可能會在現在政府到2025年的時候也要把兩柱機組停擺那我們有沒有延宜的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2568.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2577.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
跟委員報告研議是社會非常關切的議題那麼這個也是國家能源的政策那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2580.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2600.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
在安全專業上以你的部會的角度安全專業上來講國內如果說兩座核電廠核二廠核三廠的研議可不可行專業評估判斷我跟委員報告每一個核電廠就像每一個人的健康情況跟他的過去的運轉的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2602.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2614.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
就是要個案來看那麼現在現在就是就目前臺電如果要研議技術層面上臺電也必須去檢視他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2617.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2644.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
核電廠的機組那麼個別的情況所以我在這個地方沒有辦法是通盤來所以這樣子我請教我們的核二廠核三廠的健康情況好不好如果說你要講個案的話那我們就講個案我先講因為主委你之前兩個禮拜前來我辦公室有做過一個拜會我那時候就有提出我就請教台灣最喜歡跟美國比美國現在發電有多少核電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2646.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2674.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那時候我提出來請你回去做功課美國現在有多少發電廠核電廠90幾90幾座請教他佔美國全國的總體發電量核能佔美國全體的發電量有多少這個我不是很清楚不是吧主委我兩個禮拜前洩題給你了你現在跟我講你不是很清楚這個我們再去查一下沒有同仁知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2678.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2679.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
幫個忙好不好 欸 核安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2683.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2712.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你不覺得這是一個基本常識ABC嗎如果說我們台灣我們會考慮到是說我們的核能佔比佔於我們總體全國的發電有多少那對比美國美國有九十幾座核能發電廠佔他們全國的發電有多少我直接告訴你答案你Google一下就知道至少差不多兩成左右啦是的百分之二十是的那請教美國核電廠九十幾座裡面有超過百分之十有超過多少比例是超過四十年也就是他們有研議的發電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2714.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2714.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
美國現在歷史最悠久的發電廠使用多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2738.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2738.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
美國59座發電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2754.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2779.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這個安不安全那個紅委員我們可以去看沒有美國既然核准他們的發電廠是不是一樣是40年為年限是的是嗎跟我們台灣是一樣嗎那但是他們有59座在要除疫之前他們提出申請所以59座通過他們的有關機關的核准認定可以持續研議所以說他們現在59座發電廠都使用超過40年以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2779.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2788.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那我只請教就我們核安會去做了解去做survey美國在檢視的時候要給他們研議有沒有任何的放水應該是沒有那有沒有哪一座發電廠這59座超過40年以上不安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2797.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2820.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
目前沒有但是我跟委員報告所以本席就講是說其實就專業安全的考量來講核電廠如果要持續使用是可以的而且現在美國他們持續在使用是不是這樣子我跟委員報告所以那個是不是可以讓我稍微解釋一下你要跟我解釋什麼好讓我解釋一下一分鐘半分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2822.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2848.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
本席答詢時間有限所以不要言不及意好不好來好比如說以日本來講日本能登半島地震今年1月1號主委本席跟你討論美國結果你現在扯到日本那就是言不及意就是答非所問因為是有地震的問題來主委本席再請教因為有地震的問題現在超過企業界的意見領袖跟過半數的民意可能都贊同民進黨的能源政策應該要重新被檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2849.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2867 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那之前賴清德總統當選呢也有到新竹科學園區去跟企業界的大佬閉門會談但傳出來媒體這邊講是說很多企業界大佬也表達說其實政府應該可以持續發展我們任何的一個能源包括說核能有沒有看到這個媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2869.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2896.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好那如果說這樣子賴清德總統當選人520上任之後他的政策會怎麼走不知道但現在有很多企業界大佬在閉門會議的時候都直接當面跟他講是說其實民進黨的非核家園神主牌也不一定一定要抱著不放啊那如果說哪一天賴清德總統當選人上任之後因為他也曾經在選前以前大家都講說他是台獨精選就他在選舉前講是說台獨已經是過去式已經是完成式了他不要台獨了 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2898.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2918.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
來藉此希望說那時候2024年1月13日之前中華民國的多數人民可以投票給他他連台獨金孫的名義都可以放棄那一樣會不會520之後賴清德總統當選有可能講說那不然我們來討論看看2025非核家園這是蔡英文的主張我賴清德不一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2918.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2919.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
主委同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2941.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2963.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我可以同意,但是那個...什麼時候開始做?非常好,務實的來做,美國有59座核電廠都超過40年以上,台灣目前也就核二廠核三廠在運行當中,一個是才剛除役,一個是還在運行,所以要研議的話核二廠核三廠最有機會最有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2964.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2973.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
對不對那是不是現在應該來做如果說我們現在都討論再加上我只請教一件事情啊大家這兩天也有學者專家跳出來講是說台灣的發電啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2976.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2996.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
臺電的能源配比火力發電、核能發電、再生能源就只有核能發電是成本低於售價所以是唯一不會虧錢的發電方式其他火力發電、再生能源都是成本高於售價所以說賣一度電就是虧就一定是虧多賣多虧 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2998.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3021.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
是不是這樣我跟委員報告核安會是獨立的安全管制機關就是因為你們是獨立的安全機關所以本席才用專業的問題告訴你們是說你們應該是很持平的不帶任何政治意識形態回答不用那麼小心是就是不是就是不是依照你的專業來說明跟回答所以剛才我才跟委員我剛才跟委員講 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3025.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3050.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
日本核電廠因為地震所產生的這個日本現在有沒有使用核電廠為什麼奇怪本席一直希望是很專業的評估判斷從頭到尾沒有提到日本你就硬要扯日本就是想要讓大家remind大家311的這個日本福島但重點是連你們的報告本席都有清楚明白看喔連你們報告裡面都講是說連包括說日本排放核 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3051.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3061.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
核廢水的部分也都是幾次的測試17次的會議也都認為是說在安全監控裡面都無虞所以本席也沒有懷疑你們所做的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3063.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3082.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
所以不用說在這個會議場合裡面去影射恐嚇台灣人民重點在於是說我現在提出的一個數據美國的狀況怎麼樣英國的狀況怎麼樣現在全世界趨勢甚至英國首相都講是說能夠發展核能來一勞永逸的降低我們的電價的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3084.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3106.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我只是跟委員敘述日本跟台灣都是地震頻繁的地方有這個風險有這個風險但是能不能克服能不能防範能不能克服過去40年有沒有因為這樣子我們的核能安全有打折比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3107.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3135.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我只想確認因為主席應站起來了拜託 各位原能會變成核安會我相信不會因為這樣而上市的專業跟經濟的技術包括你的報告裡面都講是說未來還要持續關注SNR小型核能技術的經濟本席也都同意但最重要的是今天我們討論的是一個觀念跟立場的問題如果核安會沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3136.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3148.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
站在一個安全公平的立場提供專業的數據給我們的政府機關給我們決策人員還是要看風向還是要看政治意識形態的話那核安會關門算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3149.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3151.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
主委我們是不是私下再跟侯委員來做說明好不好時間的關係抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3179.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3179.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3198.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3213.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
科委員長主委長我上次來這邊提提出有關核安問題的時候那時候是原能會現在是核安會我會請在場的所有你帶領的這些所謂的同仁目前為止哪一位是跟清大和公系背景有關的請舉手一下好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3217.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3225.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
是你看一排其實這是一個正常的現象因為主委是來自於一個圖目的結構所以他信誓旦旦不斷的在當候孟凱委員問他有關核能的問題他完全把他轉到我想跟每個人背景有關我們就一一來去看這個背景的不同會造成我們提問的很大的一個不同我們先來看一下我延續剛剛孟凱委員的一個說法因為這個所謂的核能的問題幾乎是總統大選的必考題 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3243.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3243.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
李卓人議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3261.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3273.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
如果賴總統他可能說要讓我們已經停機的核能機組維持在一個未來可用的緊急狀況之下目前規劃是這樣我們往下來看那如果這是一個事實的話那我請問有關研議的執照是必須在有效的屆滿了5年到15年提出申請那是不是這個法一定要做一個修正以備緊急使用的時候要用如果說是5到10年這是這個法是完全沒有辦法配合賴總統所提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3291.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3292.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
5至15年其實這個規定也沿襲美國NRC核管會相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3309.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3331.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
主委的聲音速度比較慢你跟我大概1比3的速度所以我們就還是大家互相調配加起來除以2剛剛好好不好所以你剛剛說根據美國NRC的標準但是美國之前已經把目標放在22個月現在已經改進到18個月你要除以已經不像過去一樣這是我要提供給主委的 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3332.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3360.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3361.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3367.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
核三長也是目前進度到哪裡已經經過環評送到你們這邊來了嗎送到你們的核安委員會了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3375.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3395.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
臺電告訴我說已經拿到環境部的除疫許可的環評報告主委你真的一定要掌握訊息這是臺電說的我掌握 完全掌握訊息環境許可還沒有完全這個程序還沒有完全完成那主要的原因是 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3396.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3396.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3426.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3434.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這個要問台電跟經濟部我沒有辦法回應這個問題所以主委你還是用你的土木的這個結構問題來告訴我我只負責好那一塊安全就好其實不是的這是一個整個的我們的一個大環境的部分我只告訴你我徹底的懷疑透過這個方式裡面在延宕來我們往下來看而且我也非常關心那是我那個時候五年前站在這個地方我不斷的問到的中期戰衝就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3455.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3470.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
提到核廢料的問題我們現在不要談到最終儲存場我們只提到一個中期有關於核廢的這個規劃的進度我們看下一張那目前這個處理方法行政院的態度是非常的消極的因為我們有一個非核家運的推動小組沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3471.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3476.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
之前你看看他就要求要提出來這個儲存場並且提出構想你看三次會議四次會議不斷的要求低放射線的高放射線的對不對而且有10萬噸的這低放射線這個部分給我們一個中期儲存場一連串的開會開到 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3489.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3495.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
拜託都要求你們提出一個選址的方案等等之類請問現在目前進度到哪裡開到第6次竟然來告訴大家不要讓核四公投留於政黨對決非核家園怎麼在討論這樣的問題我只請問這個問題到底到哪裡了核料問題的中期處處目前為止是到什麼地方了 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3510.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3518.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這個中期儲存設施目前還沒有非常具體的進展所以已經從2018你們非核你是不是要質疑一下非核家園的推動小組目前都在幹什麼從那個時候一直提提提提到現在什麼時候開第7次會議主委什麼時候開第7次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3528.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3552.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這個是行政院在推動非核小組的推動小組在安排那麼我們會裡面呢其實有在112年有主動來然後呢我只要請問主委你知道什麼時候是第7次已經從2018到現在開的7次會議都完全無效而且第6次到現在已經3年沒有開了我都不曉得行政院的非核家園的小組都在幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3553.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3565.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這麼一個重要的事情所以我真的為我們現在的總統賴清德覺得很不值他在法務部的時候已經把38個這個死刑犯留給賴清德現在你們要把這個所謂的廢核的這個場子要留給賴清德我真不曉得他該怎麼來當這個總統我只問第7次會議在什麼地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3569.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3596.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
你也沒辦法替非核家委員來回答對不對這個是行政院在召開所以說嘛那你們沒有辦法主動嗎因為這大家從過去到現在一直不再關切所以這可能跟你們降級到第三級你們真的沒有太多的發語權以前原能會可能還有辦法更積極的我們再下來看因為我時間非常的有限所以你認為剛剛已經很多人提到了核融合式綠電嗎我們接下來看因為目前為止台灣的核融合技術你認為只停留在基礎的研究範圍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3598.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3618.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
因為我們只花了3500萬對不對這個技術裡面來說跟美國跟其他西歐親近的國家當他們認為要合融合的部分來說我們的價值我們的錢我們所研發的費用這是遠遠的不如所以呢我們的上次的問到中研院他們也積極希望能夠在未來十年當中能夠達到所謂合融的商轉目標你認為以你的判斷用學者的判斷你認為有可能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3625.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3645.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
未來10年還是有一些挑戰這個全世界前沿的研究團隊其實投入大量的資源在做這個但是我們國內在這個地方其實還是在起步的階段那麼國科會其實這個計畫是一個整合型計畫其實是相對的基礎研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3646.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3650.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以我們距離別人真的距離還是遙遠剛剛看到你的預算的一個編列還有包括你們這個整個層級的降低再包括你們對很多事情的看法目前為止我對於有沒有辦法跟世界來做一個接軌的確是畫上一個非常大的問號 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3662.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3681.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
最後時間我就要回到我剛剛一剛開始問到的清大合工的部分那就是主導整個臺灣不管在核能的安全我想在座有很多人的學生可能都是還在這個領域當中但是我們合工的人才的規劃我真的是為清大合工的這一批優秀人才感到不值 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3681.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3697.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
為什麽就是因為我們整個能源政策的關係讓我們合共的人才連我們教育部的公費留學當中沒有合共的細索這是一個何等重要你不管是何融合不管核電安全不管是任何的方法都應該用這樣的一個優秀的人才去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3697.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3706.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
你知道核工的人轉到美國去目前為止身價大好在他們65歲的時候身價大好因為核能已經變成世界發展的趨勢就你看看我們不僅是改名改姓而且如果有機會捏到這個博士班他說以民進黨目前廢核的方法即使捏到博士班也只能去看守核廢料而已這是我們對待過去優秀人才這邊一排優秀清達核工畢業的這麼優秀的人才你們覺得只甘於如此嗎如果不甘於如此的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3727.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3750.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
你不覺得你要提出更大的建言嗎這麼好的部分裏面這麼延續的部分我真的覺得主委你雖然是土木系的但是你竟然在這個位置裏面不要一天到晚用非常保守的方法告訴我安全安全核能的公信難道不談論安全嗎他們自己就在裏面的核電廠裏面來工作他們能夠不第一時間感受到安全嗎這才是本行今天告訴你核能的問題總統考題必選但是呢你們要更有積極的作為因為你們都是學者專家 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3755.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3765.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我跟科委員報告我完全同意科委員的想法人才培育包含合工人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3766.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3767.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
好,我們再來請萬美玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3800.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3801.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
陳東陽主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3808.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3837.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
王委員早早看起來現在講話速度有稍微加快一點點了好來我想我們看到經濟部的王美花部長在今年2月5號她受訪的時候有說經濟部面對新國會跟新民意一定會做好研議相關的準備核電廠研議相關準備那對於立法院會提出這個研議的修法怎麼樣周延去修法還有安全相關的課題這個核電廠如果要研議不管在修法或核安會的審核經濟部跟台電都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3838.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3840.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
核電廠是否能研議：主要還是能源機關經濟部來做評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3853.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3878.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
其實本席看到這兩次記者會兩個不同單位的說法看起來我不敢說大家互推因為本來就是要互相來配合可是到底誰來主責那麼在自己的範圍之內有沒有很積極去看待這個問題我看起來是沒有每一個人就是在仰望著經濟部看你們看經濟部我想這樣是不好的但我們來看一下核安會在今年1月23日的新聞稿有表示說 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3878.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3899.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
國家政策如果確定了 而且修法了 核安會會本於專業跟職責來進行審查那在符合法規跟安全要求之下 機組就可以延逸運轉我想請教一下主委 你這個意思是不是說 只要完成核電廠的延逸修法那核安會完成審查以後 我們提議的核電廠就會重啟 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3901.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3916.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
是的這個部分就是說還是需要這個全民的共識社會在這個地方有一些不同的看法那麼核安會其實是站在專業安全的角度技術的角度會嚴格的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3917.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3937.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
當然我想剛才主委講了一個這全民的共識這非常符合這個賴信哲總統準總統在選舉的時候說不排除核電但是啪啦啪啦彈數一堆這樣子所以呢我想請教一下主委我想剛才我們幾位委員在講我想核電這一題也是所有總統候選人的必考題所以我們看到在去年的總統候選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3938.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3964.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
不管侯友宜、柯文哲其他都支持明確的支持這個核電廠研議那當然賴清德總統當時有講到說他不排除只是附帶了很多的但書但是不論如何可見我們核電廠的研議其實是大多數民眾的期盼所以您是這個核安的主管機關您有沒有開始著手來這個進行核電廠研議相關的這個修法的研擬那如果有 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3965.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3992.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
是什麼時候?520之前會提出來嗎?或者是根本沒有做這樣的一個準備?技術層面的部分我們有在盤點但具體的修法我想我們沒有開始沒有開始對但是我知道或者我們有詳細的來看過我們幾位委員提出來的修法的版本那麼有做一些審視 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3995.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4013.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
主委我想兩點第一個您剛說我們自己的相關的修法演繹是完全沒有開始也就是沒有準備那您剛又說到說說法上不排除核電那但是要看有沒有全民最大的共識什麼的本席聽起來這個話我覺得這個非常的深刻因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4014.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4030.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我們的準總統賴清德就是這樣說的所以看起來本席認為你沒有做好準備這件事情是不是意味著我們賴清德總統上任之後他會繼續在能源政策上面去警報他非核家園的神主牌所以你跟著他是做這樣的準備是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4032.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4046.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我想我不是很清楚賴總統會做怎麼樣的決定但是核安會其實是站在自己專業角色的觀點來做自己份內工作的事情那份內工作最重要是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4047.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4062.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
安全 核能安全 輻射安全 核廢料的安全緊急議題我想這些當然都是非常重要但是重視民意而且重視現在大家大多數民意所趨我想這個核安會這一點當然也是最重要的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4062.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4062.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4088.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4095.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
到底臺電跟新北市政府就合一合二場的干涉儲存潮﹑水土保持計劃的協商進度現在到了哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4097.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4119.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
現在雙方其實有一些卡關就是剛才委員提到的在最高行政法院那主要是牽扯到水土保持的部分二次變更設計新北市政府還沒有核准所以他沒辦法做這個測試這是核一廠核二廠的部分是水土保持部分開工展延 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4122.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4141.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
臺電輸了,完工展延新北市政府輸了,所以雙方亦贏亦輸,所以這個地方也卡住好,主委,那你有沒有掌握近期臺電跟新北市政府還要就核一廠的幹事署陳超相關水土保濕計畫要進行再一次協商,你有掌握嗎?我有聽說什麼時候?你有聽說而已喔?你聽誰說? |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4147.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4165.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
呃...不曉得是哪一個委員是...哎呦我的天啊這麼重要的事情你沒有掌握然後是在路邊聽說而且還不知道聽哪一個委員就是路過的時候說到的我覺得這很誇張欸這麼重要的事情啊你沒有好好掌握用聽說我覺得匪夷所思啊 諸位 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4166.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4168.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個畢竟是臺電跟西北市政府的兩兆方面的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4187.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4188.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
新北市政府跟台電要在4月1日繼續來進行協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4208.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4219.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這個聽說我覺得不論是你聽到近期或是最近有明確傳出來這個4月1號本席認為你都應該要去掌握好不好我想會後就這一題能不能下去了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4220.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4221.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
韓川沸水提出日本福島第一核電廠． |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4252.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4256.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
穿的濃度遠低於日本承諾要排放限值每公升1500貝克 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4267.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4293.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我們都有在即時監測海域我的海域的監測點監測是一件事但是因為您這樣的說法是想要替這個日本來背書說這個寒川廢水排出來到現在為止安全上都沒有問題嗎不是背書我們是就實驗實際測的跟國際相關的比較跟日本相關的data來做比較那麼我們其實是跨部會的一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4294.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4300.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
臺灣針對進口的日本食品的輻射檢測全台有7座實驗室一年可以檢測高達7萬多件但是我們對於生物穿檢測的量能一年只有500件跟食品輻射檢測相差有140倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4318.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4343.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那我覺得這個差距太大了這一樣都是這個相關的安全那現在這個核安衛對於這個檢測量能有沒有一個提升的計畫我覺得這非常重要您能不能說明一下好那個跟委員報告去年9月27行政院有一個量能的提升計畫生物川那麼大概5000萬那麼他是要把這個實驗室從一家變成三家然後每年500件變成2000件那現在其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4346.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4373.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
已經到這個已經建置實驗室已經建置差不多完整所以有準備要提升嗎不過我們從數字看來即便我們提升到2000件跟剛剛本席所說的進口食品的相關輻射檢測還是差了35倍我們希望第一個增量能夠繼續提升同時之前本席有問過關於我們這個排放的這個寒川廢水當中其實還有各種放射性物質碳14.129在過去我們沒有這個檢測的這個相關的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4378.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4391.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
當時核安會輻射偵測中心主任徐明德好像已經換人了有說到碳14跟碳129其實我們是需要建立這個能力的所以正在建立中能不能請問一下主委到現在我們建立的狀況如何了 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4393.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4419.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我們現在有一個新的智慧檢測計劃是一個科技計劃今年在輻射偵測中心就是on schedule在進行113年開始113年好那我想我們剛剛提到我希望我們相關的檢測量還有檢測的這個技術我們都要再提升那否則會跟不上大家對於食安相關的擔憂所以靜婷希望主委能夠再加強加油好嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4422.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4429.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好謝謝萬美玲委員諮詢主委請回我們接下來請葛如軍委員謝謝主席有請河安會陳東陽主委備詢好有請朱美 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4457.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4457.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
核能是安全的能源嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4481.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4504.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
就是有發生事情就是不安全嘛那那個沒有發生事情是安全所以這個問題不是yes and no所以其實這個是有一些要在安全的條件下謝謝我等我們的主委這麼費盡心力的回答一個這麼簡單的問題為什麼我會替全國人民這樣問看看核安會組織法我們國家設置核安會的目的依據核能安全委員會組織法第一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4511.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4532.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
行政院為了確保我國核能輻射及放射性物料安全特設核能安全委員會為相當中央三級獨立機關我們對於核安會的期待就是要為民眾來確保核能的安全短短的核能安全嗎的問題您可以回答非常長的時間我們完全給你足夠的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4534.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4540.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那我再問另外一個問題您認為對台灣的現況來說核能是一個安全的能源選項嗎?再一次來講所以這個也不是一個很簡單的一個yes and no的問題我想葛委員也清楚我大概在講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4559.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4565.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
所以我們以後叫您薛丁格主委可以嗎我想絕對不是這樣的嘛那這樣您來這裡備詢做什麼的嗎我們問這麼基本的問題都不是yes and no那我們幹嘛要設置那請問您覺得應該要設置核能安全委員會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4577.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4595.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我跟委員也不是yes and no沒有關係我想在核安會確保以下我們就問您下一個問題在核安會的確保之下我們應該要確保我們台灣已除役的核電廠正在運轉的核電廠以及以前現在所產生的核廢料是否都能夠安全的被處置是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4598.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4619.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我跟委員報告是否能夠安全的被處置是的是嗎是嗎可以嗎是的可以安全的被處置嗎可不可以讓我講一下是日本也有這個核能安全可以安全的被處置我剛剛都有聽您的質詢我聽過了是的可以被安全的肯定可以保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4620.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4621.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
目前是肯定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4639.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4663.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以我們真的認為無論是科學或科技雖然運用上都有一體兩面的問題但本身是中立的社會主管機關我想真的更應該要站在排除意識形態中立客觀的基礎上幫助民眾瞭解正確的資訊而且近年來國際上還持續有國家新建核電廠相信對各國來說核能的選擇必然是建立在安全的基礎之上我們期待核安會能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4664.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4664.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
321 核能 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4694.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4717.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們可以慢一點會為國人來確保核能安全這句話是對的所以核能是安全您剛剛肯定啊核能是安全的能源這個其實有很多的但書的核能可以被確保是安全的能源這是你們的組織上面講的好不好那我們就改一下核能可以被確保是安全的能源我們先喊第一句就好了好嗎好321 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4719.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4723.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
核能可以被確保核能安全謝謝 為什麼因為您如果真的在答詢上面有所猶豫或者連喊出這樣一句話說核能可以被確保是安全的人員都有所猶豫的話我想這張圖就有點尷尬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4747.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4772.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我們所有的人排排站說接日的核能安全委員會但您好像有所懷疑抱持了很多的但書跟條件我們以後要不要乾脆改名我想這樣子真的不是我們想要看到的主委或者如果你沒有努力做的話那我覺得這幾乎我覺得真的是非常非常危險那我們真的是想要來跟主委分享這個國際真的是仍然擁抱核電核電廠安全廚藝的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4776.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4796.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
芬蘭在2023年啟用新的核電廠．比爾蓋茲也是微軟創辦人近日宣布．6月起將在美國建第一座新世代核電廠印尼也有新的計畫想請教一下你應該也都認為這些國家的政府也都會確保核能安全吧是嗎是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4798.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4815.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
核能作為穩定發電零碳排的特性Amazon也開始要購買核電我想接下來核能一定還是一個選項SMR核融合的技術也應該都有很多的效益因為它畢竟還是目前發電成本來說最低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4815.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4842.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那我想接下來我們還是希望能夠看到我們電價調整對於核電廠停止運轉年限基本上是107年底逐步除役以後電價看起來有點逐步調漲的感覺核一廠核二廠的除役是因為基礎安全的問題嗎其實我們都很清楚核電廠並不是因為安全的疑慮才除役只是因為年限到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4842.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4867.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
在核安會的把關之下我們的核電廠廚藝研議是不是其實只差在修法呢這個是不是可以請主委回應一下是的這個部分就是已經過了40年的年限那麼如果要研議他必須在屆期前5年到15年提出這個執照的延續那這個期限也過了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4868.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4893.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
謝謝您認同這個不是安全基礎的問題其實是因為年限的問題那我想民眾真的很擔憂物價的變動希望政府可以苦民所苦那我想最後因為時間的關係我想跟您分享一下這個最近賴清德準總統與半導體對談的時候提出了他擁抱核電的而不是他本人是業者說提出了對我們的準總統提出了擁抱核電的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4894.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4922.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
主委怎麼看待產業的聲音?您會給準統統什麼樣的政策建議?產業的說法可行嗎?我們有注意到這個新聞那麼這個是一個非常大的issue為什麼?因為這個其實是牽扯到跨部會的相關的議題那麼回到本身的問題其實跟演繹是相同的就是我們要面臨很多的問題社會共識這大概是這樣子好謝謝我想最後啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4923.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4934.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我們剛剛已經提過了科技是理性也是中立的我們無論如何要一起來確保所以核廢料的這個做法處理應該也非常的重要我們在廚藝的過程裡面也一定要來了解核廢料的儲存還有存放那我想要問一下主委有沒有看過這種深層掩埋的方式有沒有研究過是的有看過有看過報導我們有沒有機會採用 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4952.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4978.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這個部分這是目前全球永久處置的幾乎是一致共識喔芬蘭瑞典喔你們之前也去考察過103年喔是是那個我們現在的問題其實還在我們有沒有在評估有在評估但是我們還在選址的階段最終處置場還在選址的階段我們大概有5個階段我們現在是第二個10年大概是在這個選址的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4979.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4992.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好謝謝我想無論廚藝也好研議也好使用過的核子燃料核廢料始終都是要正面的面對啦況且核安會雖然是三級機關但卻是直接對行政院長負責的獨立機關我們期待核安會要協助持續來幫忙臺電和地方政府的溝通讓室內儲存廠能夠盡快的規劃建置室外儲存廠能夠盡快啟用 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5004.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5021.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
同時也來加速評估這個永久存放的這個機制不能10年再10年一路的拖延下去此外核安會作為原子能相關法規的主管機關作為把關核能安全的主管機關真的是應該要多加協助臺電和民眾之間的社會溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5022.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5041.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
下次再有人問您剛剛我們一開始的幾個問題希望您可以回答得更明確更快好嗎最後我還是要呼籲全台灣的民眾都期盼不要漲電價我們不要舍本逐末放棄相對便宜穩定的能源選項我們完全可以靠核電廠研議把電費降下來還給大家應有的生活品質謝謝主委也謝謝主席謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝葛如君委員好我們再來請葉元芝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5060.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5065.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
主席請找核安會主任委員陳東陽主委好有請陳主委葉委員好主委你好也謝謝之前有跟你有在這個立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5075.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5103.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
之前就有一個短暫的一個交流我沒有發現說你真的是被主委耽誤的語言天才剛剛其實葛盧軍委員問的問題是很清楚的問說核能到底安不安全你回答是有發生事情就是不安全沒發生就是安全這個好比說我們問警察局長說我們現在治安好嗎他說有發生槍案就是不好沒發生就是好然後我們問說肚子你健不健康有生病就是不健康沒生病就是健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5104.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5132.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
這個我覺得以一個核安會主委講出這樣的話真的對你的業務非常的沒有信心因為你的工作就是要確保核安的安全所以我是你的話啦一個複雜的問題其實沒辦法用很簡單的一句話啦對但是因為你的工作就是要讓核安變安全嘛對所以其實你應該要講說我們其實是從專業的角度來面對這個問題那什麼情況之下是不安全的發生事情比如說日本的核災它就是不安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5133.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5146.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那你講到日本核災我就跟你繼續或者是我們最近的這個能登半島除役中的核電廠都產生一些問題各位謝謝你講到日本核災我繼續跟你討論我延續的剛剛葛無君委員的問題他說現在有很多半導體業者希望能夠發展那個核電廠但是半導體業者他發展是小型的他們講的應該是小型的核電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5161.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5163.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
有一個核四的前廠長叫王伯輝不知道你認識嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5177.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5200.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我看過很多他的文章他有一個觀點也利用這個機會跟你就教一下他說小型核電廠現在竟然有些問題不如就半導體業者可以直接來接收核市場因為我們現在核市場因為公投沒過所以核四要重啟是不太可能但是如果由這個半導體業者他們來接手也許又是一個方向那這個王柏輝他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5202.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5222.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
有一個大導演叫奧利弗史東他拍了一個新核能時代電影不知道主委你有看嗎我沒有看但是我有看過預告片我也知道整個whole story對對對然後他是這樣講的他講說裡面有說要建立目前最安全最佳的核電廠其實它的原型就是台灣的核四廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5222.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5236.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以意思就是說連大導演奧利弗史東都非常的認同就是核市場他是安全的那再來就是實際上他說啦他說柯P有跟他講如果他說柯P說 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5237.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5263.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
你剛講到日本嘛福島電廠嘛福島電廠的人告訴柯P如果福島的電廠有台灣核四廠的這種設計的話不會發生福島核災啊所以如果你用福島核災來比喻台灣的核四實際上是不是完全可以類比的那為什麼呢我想請教一下主委你知道我們核四廠有一些特殊的設計是福島電廠沒有的你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5267.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5269.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
有一個深水池嗎?第一個是福島沒有的嗎?再來還有一個什麼是福島沒有的? |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5282.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5303.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我跟你講就是在他的燃料池的上方有三個很大的開口所以不至於會發生氣爆所以我覺得我們身為核能會的主委我們要對我們自己蓋出來的核市場要有信心就是說不見得會發生日本那樣的狀態然後再來就是大家非常擔心核廢料的問題實際上在 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5305.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5334.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
核市場裡面有一個山凹有一個山凹他可以儲存兩萬桶的核廢料那40年都不必運出所以核廢料問題40年大家也不用擔心因為都是在核市場裡面其實實際上核一核二核三現在也都產生核廢料那他現在放在哪裡就是放在核電廠裡面根據核委會核安會你們去看這些核廢料有產生安全的疑慮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5339.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5360.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
現在其實在濕式儲存那下一個階段要到乾式儲存我現在就問說現階段有沒有問題現階段有沒有安全性的問題有沒有現階段是沒有但是我們還是在是所以謝謝主委啦你也講了嘛現階段核備料也沒有安全的問題嘛現在大家是早是說要把它移到乾式儲存潮嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5360.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5387.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
甘氏儲存現在和二廠的部分臺電去跟新北市政府到底申請了沒因為新北市政府現在是說合可啦臺電到底去申請了沒甘氏儲存室內的部分室外的部分他其實我剛才有講過就是兩方還有一些司法上的爭議這個隨途保持一個是開始展延一個是完工展延 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5388.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5412.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
市內部份去申請嗎?因為市內部份行政院也已經核可了但是他要到明年的114年的7月才會照料理第一個 這個要快啦 第二我們其實不管講什麼私事儲存潮乾事儲存潮它都是一個暫時性的一個儲放的空間這也就是為什麼新北市政府過去非常反對要蓋乾事儲存潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5413.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5432.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
因為他們擔心蓋了乾式儲存槽之後我們的政府就不幫他移出嘛就變成永久的儲存槽所以我現在想要問你啦我們現在要終極解決這個問題那你現在到底我們的終極的儲存槽你到底有沒有計畫因為按照好像之前元能會或是核安會的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5433.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5450.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我們是有一個計劃嘛應該是要在114年要完成處置場的概念設計然後115年要完成候選場址的特殊調查跟評估我先問114年要完成處置場概念設計這個有在進行嗎因為今年已經113年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5452.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5474.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我跟委員報告這個部分的工作現在其實是經濟部在負責是經濟部那你們有沒有去了解我們就安全的部分其實提供一些準則跟法規給他們參考就了解他們現在進行到什麼階段第二個階段第二個階段就是在選紙選紙對所以在115年你認為經濟部在115年可以確定我們的永久核廢料儲存廠在哪裡嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5482.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5500.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
現在方向是什麼大概方向現在是在第二階段的中間大概是在前後還有五年的空間五年可是115年就要完成調查跟評估怎麼會有五年應該是第二個階段應該還有五年第二階段還有五年意思是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5501.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5526.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我這邊列出來的期程也是之前你們提供給我們的報告嗎?是的所以怎麼會有5年?5年的話是120年才會完成長子調查跟評估喔?是我這個部分我會再給委員資料我相信我的資料是對的啦所以意思是說以你的資料來講的話是120年才會完成選址是不是?現在是112年 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5529.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5548.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
現在113年所以再5年應該是118年我講的是說115年再加5年所以不是你是說從今年再加5年118年我們核廢料的最終儲存廠會完成選址那現在方向是要在哪裡比如說舉例來講是運到國外還是在地底還是在山洞還是哪裡你們現在方向是哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5549.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5574.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
方向這個部分其實是社會有一些的爭議地方有一些的concern所以民眾溝通你要先有方向才有辦法去跟地方溝通你的方向是哪裡剛才我跟委員報告這個部分其實是台電跟經濟部在負責因為一定會徵詢你們因為他選地方他要考慮有沒有安全性問題所以一定會徵詢你們你會給他專業建議那你認為哪裡比較安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5579.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5596.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
看這個地址條件這個專汰的地址條件你真的是語言天才真的太厲害了講來講去都是在繞圈圈我覺得這個也謝謝主委你剛剛有說其實核廢料目前為止都是安全的我想大家也不用過度恐懼 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5597.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5616.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我們希望說最終儲存場可以趕快確定當然地方政府也不至於擔憂這個問題才有可能得到終極的解決那另外半導體業者要不要接受核市場我覺得你也可以評估一下給他們一些建議這或許是可以不缺電大家不用漲電價一個好的解放好 謝謝好 謝謝葉委員好 謝謝謝謝葉元芝委員 主委請回我們接下來請郭宇晴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5634.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5637.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
主席好 有請陳主委好 有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5642.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5665.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
國委員好早安所以剛剛其實我們聽過了很多的一個討論那其實我來稍微講一下下其實我們大家都說這個最安全的交通工具其實是飛機但是飛機偶爾還是會有飛岸的意外所以其實剛剛主委您回答的的確也沒有錯很多事情是不能用是或者是不是來作為決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5667.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5696.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好 那我們先來看一下就是現在我們看到的就是包含大家最關心的核廢料的一個處理的流程那除了實施以外在中程其實就是所謂的乾式的部分那目前其實我們知道2023年的3月核一就是即將處理的核一核二廠那他們的這個乾除的一個設施其實是台電是勝訴的那現在目前是卡關卡在哪裡是地方政府嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5697.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5723.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
現在合一廠就是新北市政府還沒有核准臺電的二次變更設計隨途保持的部分在這個部分其實是卡關然後如果他通過了剛才有委員講4月1號那還要通過那個完工延遲的部分所以他有兩個關卡那如果通過了那我們才可以那個熱測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5725.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5734.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那如果通過了那經過我們核安會審查那他可以把私事儲存裡面的燃料棒移出來那大概就問題就可以解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5737.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5755.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
將來是不是都會一直在使用這個所謂的室內的乾除的設備因為我們知道其實室外我們已經花了300億對不對那現在是因為他們覺得室外有一些疑慮所以希望改成所謂的室內那在室內的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5756.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5782.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
市內的部分是相對有共識那麼在社會上那麼核一廠的市內其實112年就去年的年底他已經公告這個採購的這個招標那核二廠呢這三個廠行政院都已經核定了那核二廠呢要到明年的7月核三廠要到後年的7月他才會公告招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5783.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5783.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
最終處置場 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5801.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5825.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
其實是勢必現在也都在進行所謂的評估那剛剛其實業務委員提到他的資料那這個部分是我們的資料啦我們辦公室找的資料我不知道這個年份的階段性是不是對的是的 正確是正確的嘛好 現在其實剛剛其實就這個主委的說法是現在我們應該是在候選場址跟評選跟核定的部分 對不對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5826.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5847.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
當然其實我們在第一階段的部分就是要包含牠的母鹽的特性來做一個調查跟評估但是也有可能會碰到當地政府他們居民的一些反對的聲音如果是這樣子的話會不會到了第三階段也就是我們已經要詳細地質的一個調查跟實驗會要再重頭再來一次這個會不會延宕到最後我們儲置場的一個設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5856.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5883.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這個的確是最困難的問題社會溝通地方政府那大家對核廢料的終極處置的問題其實這個也就是我們非核家園大家裡面扛身就是核廢料的處理的難度那一碰到這個大家的這個民眾溝通地方政府就會有不同的意見那這個其實就是困難的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5884.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5905.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
但是這個部分其實是最花時間的喔也就是說如果我們現在已經開始選定甚至我們提早已經確定了可是如果再碰到了剛剛所說的這些地方他們有一些反對的聲音我等於到了第三階段又要重新再回到第一個階段是不是有可能會變成這種狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5906.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5933.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
是的有可能但是盡量的可以往前走盡量的希望可以找這個方向所以有機會可以在我們講的這五個階段當中的處置場最終的處置場可以如期在2055年之前完成嗎even我們到了第三階段要從第一個階段開始走起 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5934.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5961.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我覺得第二個階段是非常重要的階段那麼在這個部分的溝通跟進行還有大家共同的努力那麼我們核安會對這個部分也會提供安全的一些規範來給經濟部跟台電來做參考那這個部分的工作主要是台電跟經濟部在做負責跟委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5963.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5963.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
核電真的便宜嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5992.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6002.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
大家認知的最便宜但這個部分其實我們還是要好好的來解釋一下我在跟我的辦公室助理我們在討論這題的時候其實就有點像房貸的概念房貸我如果繳清了我每個月的負擔就會變得很輕鬆 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6010.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6010.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這部分您同意我的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6027.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6041.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
同意 完全同意所以核費處理的一個增加的成本其實是5年我們會重新再估算一次所以這個成本如果再算上去的話我們的核電真的便宜嗎除了經濟的成本還有社會的成本這些都沒有辦法計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6050.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6050.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
可以這樣說嗎可以這樣說 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6072.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6072.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
核能是全球趨勢嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6093.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6103.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
特別是站出來說要倡議但是其實2050年前我們的核能發電真的會提升三倍嗎您怎麼看這一題 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6106.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6128.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我想跟委員報告不同的年代大環境有不同的趨勢那麼在2011福島發生核災的時候其實全球大部分是走向這個非核的部分那麼現在因為淨零碳排氣候變遷那麼又這個部分即便在現在這個世界的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6131.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6160.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
還是有兩邊德國他其實是非核家園他其實幾乎是face out因為其實德國官方其實已經駁斥了核能三倍的一個倡議了所以他已經駁斥了我們大家都知道德國其實是對很多事情是跑在很前面的他們已經說這個不是所謂的最便宜的核能也不是最方便或安全的他們其實已經反對這樣的說法了其實這個就是國家的能源政策是一個選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6162.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6163.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
謝謝主委 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6179.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6197.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
謝謝郭雨晴委員主委請回我們現在正好有新北市徐惠中學的師生跟美國邁阿密班中學的學生一起來我們本委員會參訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6202.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6202.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
請吳佩儀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6228.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6231.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
謝謝主席我請何安慧有請主委吳委員好主委好剛剛我聽了很多前面委員質詢的關心首先我想要請問我們台灣現在有沒有核廢料的最終處置場 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6249.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6274.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
沒有我目前沒有嘛所以說剛剛很多前面的委員都在向您詢問說核廢料的最終處置場選址要在哪裡為什麼呢尤其是本會有兩位來自新北市的區域立委因為呢核廢料的最終處置場的選址其實必然會涉及到民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6276.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6296.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這科學理性還要加務實當我們今天在討論核電廠的問題它不是一個假設性的未來式的理論而是台灣目前已經有核電廠它有所在的位置它的廚藝以及它的核廢料的處置都牽涉到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6297.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6310.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
實務上他的所在地以及相關的處置所以我們並不是真空的在討論一個未來式的問題首先我想要請問這個主委我們台灣我們目前的核電廠有幾座 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6312.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6329.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
3座我目前3座已經進入廚藝中以及即將要進行廚藝的這個狀況能夠請主委分別來說明核一核二廠已經進入廚藝了是那核三還在運轉但是一號機今年7月借期 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6331.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6345.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
2號機明年5月已經滿40年是 核三搶要除役是因為它的運轉值帳即將要到期按照我們現行的法規有沒有辦法來申請研議按照目前的法規沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6346.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6365.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
目前的法規沒有辦法是因為我目前法規有要求要申請演繹必須要在5年之前就要來提出所以說現在我看到國民黨的立法院黨團有提出一個修法的提案就是希望未來要來取消提出演繹申請的期限我在這邊表達我的立場我反對來取消演繹申請的期限 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6369.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6372.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
因為我們要討論研議其實要去討論我剛剛講的科學理性要加務實要討論務實的問題所謂務實問題是什麼就是我們現在核廢料究竟要如何處置核廢料的處置事實上也是一個現在進行式台灣還沒有最終處置場目前請問我們核廢料也就是我們使用過的燃料棒目前核一核二場以及核三場的現況目前是如何處置的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6400.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6419.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那個核一核二廠目前都是在這個私式儲存就是在水池裡面那所以沒辦法移出來那爐心裡面也有燃料棒是所以它其實是一個Pending的狀態私式儲存的位置是不是在我們核電廠的廠區內是的那以現在的現況呢核一跟核二廠它的這個私式儲存也就是燃料池的容量 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6429.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6429.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
核三廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6449.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6466.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
按照現在的使用年限因為目前我們核三廠是18個月嘛18個月週期到了就必須要放入燃料池其實也是即將要滿載那所以濕式儲存是其中一個方式我們的這個燃料棒的處理其他的方式是不是還有乾式儲存 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6467.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6491.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
干式儲存是相對比較安全的所以我們在市市儲存到一定程度干式儲存的位置阿他是不是也是在核電廠的廠區內在核電廠的廠區裡面那現在有分室外跟室內啦那室外室內其實是比較大家認為是比較核一跟核電廠的位置都在我們新北市嘛那目前我們的干式儲存廠蓋了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6496.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6513.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
市外只有合一蓋干式儲存廠有沒有辦法啟用目前是有干式儲存廠但是沒有辦法啟用那就因為他還必須要跟地方政府商量因為他也牽涉到民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6514.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6520.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
所以說這個我們的核廢料的處置按照目前的情況核三廠的燃料池也即將滿載我們假設沒有辦法啟用乾式儲存廠我們的最終儲置廠甚至連選址在哪裡都不知道在現在的務實的情況下我是堅決反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6539.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6539.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
委員會主任委員會主席委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6554.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6568.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
根本的問題還是在於我們有沒有新的方式來處理燃料棒也就是我們的核廢料法律的問題沒有辦法去解決安全的問題這一個修法是關於核電廠它運轉執照的延期 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6572.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6593.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
但是核電槽的預轉跟核廢料的處置這是兩個題目所以我希望我們在這裡可以把這個問題來把它討論清楚那所謂的最終處置場因為坊間也有一種說法就是說支持核電研議的有一種說法是說那不然啊核廢料可以放在我家我想要請問主委核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6598.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6603.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
的最終處置廠現在全世界已經有啟用的就只有芬蘭的那座最終處置榜是吧他現在在試營運階段2024開始在試營運階段是核廢料的最終處置廠他的這個條件應該是要符合什麼樣的條件有沒有辦法說核廢料就放在我家我民眾舉手說我們家願意來放來儲存核廢料有沒有辦法這樣子進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6627.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6652.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
最終處置場有相當多的面向第一個是科學的面向是geology是地質的部分要選擇適當的場子這個是就是什麼樣的場子是適當的場子就是這個堅實的研盤那第二個部分是工程的面向是我要在地下做一個地下實驗室怎麼樣把這個所有的這個這個輻射可以阻擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6654.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6655.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
臺電在2022年的時候就到芬蘭的安克羅去參訪過 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6673.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6678.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這個最終處置場目前芬蘭這一座它是在地下的400多公尺深然後是花崗岩的一個洞穴那麼使用過燃料棒用類似罐頭的方式把它封存然後再放到地底下那以這樣子的條件來說我想我們的市區內是沒有辦法找到這樣子的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6695.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6698.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這個我想核安會或政府部門也應該要去說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6715.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6729.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
議員來我們立法院來拜訪由我們韓國瑜院長來接見那我因為我是立法院歐盟議會友好協會的會長所以我也出席那這個歐洲議會的議員多次跟我們表達說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6732.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6737.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
當烏俄戰爭發生的時候其實他們非常的擔心因為非常的擔心在烏克蘭的這個核電站會不會遭受攻擊那對於安全會有不堪設想的後果 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6746.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6770.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我知道說我們核安會的網站過去有一段時間你們是很密集的在網站上面同步的去更新國際原能署關於烏克蘭核電站斷電的這個情況但是這一段時間以來我比較沒有看到你們在更新訊息那我想這個是國人也需要知道的一個資訊所以我希望核安會可以持續的來監督並且把這個訊息同步在網站上通報給國人知道可不可以做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6776.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6777.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
主委長安奧 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6804.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6814.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
各位針對這個核安你們的業務應該核安會不是只針對我們自己國內的核安對於國際上的整個核能發展趨勢應該都會關心吧首屆的核能高峰會剛結束那會議中各國的共識是說將共同振興核能並且有35國承諾說會興建新的核電廠核安會在這方面你們有掌握到這個訊息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6837.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6861.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
有哪幾個國家將會積極建設．或是未來有沒有預估臺灣周邊的國家．會再多幾座核電廠．何安慧你們對這個事情的．度跟看法跟委員說明幾個主要國家其實都有參與．包含美國、加拿大、日本、韓國但是世界也有另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6863.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6869.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
本期想要知道說對於他們現在核能高峰會他們本身有這個共識未來我們也要積極的去了解說我們鄰近的國家他們未來這個興建的計畫因為既然是在我們的周邊在我們的隔壁那麼他們興建核電廠對我們的安全我們該去防範的我們該做的因應我們必須本身你們要有這樣子的一個看法在跟態度在 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6889.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6894.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
未來在國際上這個核電廠的興建就問您覺得核廢料的處理會不會是最大的挑戰這個的確是需要很大的社會成本跟社會的關係因為目前我國核廢料相關廢棄物儲存有很大很大相當大必須努力的空間那其實歐盟的執委會主席范德賴恩也說其實核子復興的這個挑戰中不僅有核電廠產業的紀律的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6916.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6929.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那其實過去的案例裡面這個核電廠新建這個延宕問題常常需要追加大筆的預算那還有核電廠呢研議呢必須要保障安全以及需要更多的新資金以及新創研尤其說對我國來講我們核廢料一直沒有辦法有一個適當的好的去處來妥善處理這些核廢料我國真的沒有擴大使用核電的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6941.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6964.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
希望說當然核安會你們的業務不是只針對核電廠就是說還有核子醫療等相關的管制希望核安會這邊也要隨時的注意國際的局勢並且增加自我的知能才能了解說我們台灣我們自己國內我們該如何去因應國際上這樣子局勢的變化接下來我想請教主委NTI核材料安全指數這個主委你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6965.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6967.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
主委您覺得這個評比有沒有公信力?在國際間大家認同度呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6992.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7017.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我跟委員報告這些國際的排名那它有一些客觀的因素那有一些它是從公共的資訊裡面去收集應該這樣說啦其實NTI是一個非營利的無黨派的全球安全組織他們的宗旨就是在致力減少危害人類的核子以及生物的這個威脅那主委您覺得說這個有沒有讓台灣民眾參考的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7019.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7030.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
可以參考這個國際間的評比其實一直以來跟我們的核安會都有做聯繫它總共評分了175個國家還有包括我們台灣那其中其實有蠻多項的這個評分的意義跟它如何評分及用處其實我看到的時候我也沒有辦法馬上了解說這個是要做什麼所以也請教過我們核安會那這個在我們核安會的網站上面是看不到任何的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7045.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7067.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
其實在從這個報告上面來講我們在安全防護上面我們的評分是非常好我們拿的分數是非常高那雖然說我們有一些分數比較低那其實也是因為我們比較特殊的國際情勢導致這個分數比較低但是我們在其他運用其他的方式我們都把其他的部分都做得很好那既然說我們的評分很高很好為什麼核安會沒有告訴大家我們網站上看不到欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7068.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7072.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
好 我們會來努力所以他們有沒有規定說NTLA這份評比在國內的核安網站上不能引用嘛 對不對那我們把他補足讓我們的民眾們知道說其實我們在國際間對我們整個核材料安全的這個防護的指數呢其實給我們的評價是高的我們真的有做得很好那這個部分呢我相信說 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7090.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7095.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
在我們國內我們關心臺灣核安的民眾也都會非常在意那我這邊提醒的重點就是說這個評比這個指數其實他是非常的專業是你們核安會的專業那很多國際間的媒體對於這個評比他們都會發表相關的談話那我們有專業的獨立的機關為什麼我們獨立這個部分我們也沒有針對這一份我們發表我們的看法跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7113.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7120.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我想我們會來加強這個部分的宣告那這個就請主委要加強了接下來我承接就是溝通跟民眾心得的問題喔過去當日本排放這個寒川廢水的時候呢就有針對民眾的疑慮跟擔心我們做了一個調查那當時呢顯示調查的結果擔心的民眾高達6成3那本席想要知道說目前的狀況呢你們有持續的在追蹤民眾對這個議題對這個關心的程度還是現在的疑慮有沒有降低呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7142.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7163.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們持續在追蹤那包含我們在網頁上所以有做新的調查嗎是的有那目前呢目前民眾們對這件事情他們的擔憂程度呢有稍微降下來嗎民眾的擔憂我相信是有減緩那因為我們其實在海域在網頁在APP都有做即時的更新那每一個每一個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7164.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7184.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
包括擴散預報、整合一標板、跨部會都有相關訊息的揭露提供給民眾相信說民眾有感受到說我們橫岸衛對這一塊如果有掌握有監控的話應該就是對這個擔心的程度會稍微再降低那過去呢因應含川沸水的排放在委員會群討的時候橫岸衛有坦承說過去我們沒有檢測碳14跟點129的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7189.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7200.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
當時主委是說需要立法院的支持那在核安慰的網站上面有說會持續研議相關的量能那請問目前你們的進度我們今年有一個科技計畫在輻射偵測中心我們會裡面對智慧監測計畫碳14.129大概都會來建置關鍵的檢測能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7211.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7230.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以這個部分已經有相當的進度在進行其實這個寒川沸騰它還持續的在排放那我們跟民眾持續的溝通跟互動能讓民眾了解說河南會你沒有掌握相關的訊息重要的訊息讓民眾能夠了解說不用過度的擔憂一切都是在我們可以掌握的範圍之內但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7233.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7250.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
你們已經有在做了有做得很好的部分真的應該要讓民眾知道在我們核安會改制的時候呢我們的院長陳建仁院長有期許說希望核安會可持續跟民眾做溝通取得信任那你們現在覺得說你們有善盡溝通的責任嗎你們有做到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7251.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7274.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我們一直在努力跟委員報告我是覺得說你們不要核安會不要覺得說你們有默默的把自己的職責做好了就好那你們做了你沒有讓民眾知道沒有介入這樣的訊息你們沒有辦法取得民眾的信任其實民眾也不知道核安會你們到底在做什麼業務那本期這邊解釋了一下核安會你們的YouTube首先呢我要先對你們核安會有做多種語言的版本這個宣傳影片表示肯定但是我們來解釋一下訂閱人數跟觀看的次數喔訂閱人數只有829 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7281.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7288.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
3個月內發布的影片最高的觀看人是只有102這個真的是非常非常低的數字耶主委你有什麼想法好 這個部分我們內部有在做檢討事實上我們在網頁最近有在做更新大概在一兩個月可以會上線那這個部分其實我有關注到就是說品質那長度那大概都是不是很理想那麼我們內部有在做所以你自己有看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7309.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7314.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這個對影片的內容因為我時間快到了我這邊要提醒就是說我這邊主要提醒說核安會對你們有在做而且做得很好的你們這個宣傳跟民眾溝通的力道是不夠的這樣子對減輕民眾的疑慮是沒有幫助而且高度專業的東西民眾如果看不懂就表示說核安會你們沒有做好適宜的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7330.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7330.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
請繼續努力謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7356.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7357.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7381.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7399.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
關於社會溝通跟科普的活動我們從上一個會期一直就在跟主委保持溝通那我這邊還是要不厭其煩的再次跟主委確認相關的業務推動的工作因為如果沒有做好社會溝通跟把原本已經設計好的科普活動讓更多人看見的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7400.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7400.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
．3月27日及28日 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7415.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7429.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
相關的報導關於全民參與委員會還有原子能科普教育在過去一年的辦理說明我們有看到了可是現在已經是3月28號了可是在這個新的業務報告中我們沒有看到主改後變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7430.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7448.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
全民參與事務諮詢委員會新一個年度的運作相關資訊也沒有看到核安會新一個年度的原子能科普活動相關說明跟規劃所以我剛剛跟主委說為什麼科普跟這個相關的說明非常重要這邊我想要問一下主委你們這邊的規劃目前的進度還是說其實還沒規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7451.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7473.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
好 那個跟委員說明那個科普展的部分其實我們有非常多到目前為止今年113年有非常多的相關的活動那麼很抱歉在我們今天的文書報告裡面沒有提到但是在我們的網頁裡面各位委員回去可以去google一下至少有好幾篇 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7476.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7481.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
是文章的部分嗎?是指靜態的文章?沒有,活動的報導另外問一下,如果是這樣可是還有我剛剛說的這個全民參與事務諮詢委員會我們來看一下在上一個會期我記得11月29號那個時候我就跟主委討論過關於你們原本叫做全民參與委員會那我們當時討論的是開會的頻率、開會的內容還有就是開會討論出來的內容有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7502.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7527.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
讓更多人知道那麼目前在你們業務報告當中看到他改名叫做全民參與事務諮詢委員會而且我們也看到你們說本來是一年兩次那現在改成一年三次我很謝謝主委可能是在我們後來質詢完之後你們發現這個頻率確實要提高可是我們也沒有看到相關的會議的內容或是規劃那我想要請主委在這邊說明一下讓大家更加的安心不要只有這個組織但是卻沒有實際開始運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7531.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7544.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
近年開始我們邀請了所有相關的委員包括社會公正人士、NGO等等4月會召開第一次會議4月份,那後續討論的議題跟方向目前第一次有規劃嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7549.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7568.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
跟委員報告一下就是陳萌委員上一次在質詢會裡面的時候所以我們把整個的組織設置要點做了適當的修正包括評次的更改那今年的話我們就規劃初步的話我們會著重在跟民眾比較相關的譬如輻射防護醫療防護這一塊如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7570.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7596.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就像委員剛才講的我們可能宣導的不夠大家不知道核安會到底做了什麼事我們就希望藉由這個諮詢會來協助我們看看我們在溝通方面有哪些可以繼續的努力那我問一下你剛剛說一年改成三次是確定了嗎那第一次會是4月那主題您剛剛也說了輻射跟醫療的部分但是後續假設在這一年要開完這三次那應該會是有一個頻率固定的召開對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7598.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7599.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7616.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7616.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
3月22日及28日 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7644.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7644.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
主委,您有什麼看法? |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7669.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7691.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個是今年會在雲林那下禮拜我規劃到國研院去參加所以看起來確實規劃了很多活動但是它的能見度就很低對那主委您這邊給我們一點時間我在新的網頁上面有規劃一個科普的專區那會highlight相關的我們原子能相關的科普的一些內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7693.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7696.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我相信所有做科普的人都會有這樣的有機會合作的可能好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7721.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7722.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
長時間操作新導管攝影的醫護人員環境曝露的風險評估跟研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7740.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7766.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
主委您在去年11月29日回覆我們說你們會跟醫護人員展開對話跟溝通那我想問一下到目前為止的進度是什麼那後續有沒有機會協助開啟相關的研究連續追蹤他們五年的健康狀況好那這個部分是謝謝委員關心這個部分是非常重要的對醫護人員我們有三個方面第一個就是定期健康檢查輻射健康檢查第二個就是佩戴那個輻射的標章 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7767.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7768.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
每年3小時教育訓練建置設備環境安全醫護人員安全病人安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7786.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7810.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個精進我從11月29號那時候我就聽到可是目前剛剛這樣主委回答聽起來我其實還沒有聽到太具體但是我時間有限是不是就容許我們辦公室之後繼續找找你們討論因為我們覺得開啟相關的研究也許也是重要的那我們之後再來討論好嗎好那我們來看一下關於最後這個追蹤游離輻射防護法修法作業的辦法跟進度這邊主委要不要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7811.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7836.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好 這個辦法我們前年 應該前年吧 已經送到這個行政院去年審議 那我們有17條吧 17條有做一些修改那主要是跟國際接軌 這個科技來追蹤輻射員那還有一些懲罰 懲罰的制度 就是大概是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7836.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7836.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
張組長回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7859.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7859.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
目前有沒有進度有沒有時間表 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7877.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7885.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
應該現在的一個審議修法的那個如果應該快要可以再送回我們的一個行政院快要是三個月內有機會嗎應該有機會那我們也會持續追蹤謝謝謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7905.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7905.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
張雅玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7919.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7944.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
主委好,就是說大家都非常關心我關於核能的這個法典的問題那我想跟主委再請教一下就是說我們現在呢如果在運轉執照到期的時候其實我們根據法規我們是需要提供這一系列的像老化評估、老化管理、老化分析還有安全分析等等的報告對不對那我知道就是說如果要讓它繼續運轉的話我們是可以用修法修法來取消5到15年的申請時限 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7945.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7974.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
但是修法只是文字作業我們還是必須的用從實務面來看就是修法過後我們還是要準備這個老化管理的評估研議計畫那在2011年的時候核一廠就是說這個光準備期就要到三年所以時程上面其實好像從現在來看是有點緩不濟急而且重點是我們的核一廠跟核二廠的這個燃料池都已經滿了可是我們的乾式儲存池卻一直卡關無法興建 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7975.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7988.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
所以即便是您同意核安會同意來繼續運轉但用過的藍六霸無法更新一樣是無法順利發電所以這也就是我們核二廠一號機為什麼因此停早半年停機主委我這樣子的理解是正確的嗎正確好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7990.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8014.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們現在最大的困境就是我們找不到核廢料的處置場所以我們不可能說要用電卻又不處理這個核廢料因為安全性還是一個非常重要的一件事情那我知道就是說我們核三廠的一號機運轉預計是在今年的7月要到期所以我們大概就是供應量大概剩3%那明年基本上就會歸零了嘛明年5月就會歸零了 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8015.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8021.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
所以即便現在台電提出計畫然後經過這些種種種種的程序最快要到哪一年我們才有可能發電呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8025.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8048.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這個要看這個個案,個案的機組那我們從核三來看呢臺電必須去做相關的這些的報告那去檢視這個核電廠相關的老化的然後形成一個報告我跟委員報告,這樣的報告大概多少呢大概是這麼多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8048.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8067.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
所以大概就是需要的時間應該是相當長的對不對相當長然後這就是為什麼核電廠藉其他在研議的時候他在5年前就必須提出申請5年到前15年其實這樣的規定其實是跟美國核管會其實是一致的因為的確是需要這麼多時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8069.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8091.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好,那我主委不好意思我打斷一下就是說我打開就是想要聽到剛剛講大概需要根據美國的一些相關的作業辦法我們就是需要這些時間嘛所以我現在也看了一下最新今天早上的數字就是說我們的核電的佔比大概是6%所以我們當然尋找電力是一件非常重要但是我們是必須的務實的去面對現在的問題就是說我們現在的問題是應該透過其他的能源來解決用電的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8096.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8104.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那我想這個接下來我們就要更重要去討論核安的問題因為這是直接影響到人民的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8106.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8129.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
所以呢我們現在呢從那個核安是不是應該在發那個我們要使用核電的話我們是不是要包含發電後的放射性廢棄物的管制工作那根據歐盟是有講說我們核電要視為綠能有幾項前提第一個他必須是3.5代的新型原子爐的核電機組那台灣是嗎台灣目前是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8131.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8131.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
臺灣現在可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8153.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8158.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
高階核廢料中級處置還是一個非常困難的問題主要還是要社會溝通民眾的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8169.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8193.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
除純廠的進度包括我們這個室外我想再問一下就是這個室外現在剛剛前面有委員問嘛那室內呢我們照現在的進度來講合一合二的室內乾除廠應該都已經要申請建造了那現在的進度如何呢合一廠室內的部分就是在陳竹委員在這個PowerPoint裡面的就是去年12月他已經提出這個這個 申請了對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8203.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8213.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
請購核二廠要到明年的7月核三廠要到後年的大概5月還是7月所以我們目前都是有一點delay的是嗎是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8216.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8243.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
蓋這個還是需要好幾年的時間好幾年的時間所以我想我們這個其實要談使用核電我想現在可能不是現在最務實科學理性的一個做法那我想我看到就是核研所在改制國研院的時候也做了幾件事情很不錯就是說我們確實已經開始來做很多綠能與系統的一些整合研究但目前的計轉的件數其實到了16件就等於是有16件是跟綠能有關係的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8245.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8264.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這是國家所有的人民都非常看重的一件事情也更符合所謂的2050的淨零排碳計畫所以這件事情我也會持續的去關心但是這件事情有一件非常重要的事情我們有沒有足夠的人員來做這件事情我看到一下我們的研究人員的薪資是低於同行 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8267.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8289.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我們的薪水怎麼會比別人還低因為去年我們在講說我們要以行政法人就是提供一些彈性可是我們跟太空中心跟運科中心比起來我們大學的學歷碩士的學歷薪水都比別人低甚至連比他在對面的中科院的薪水都還要來得低這一點是什麼原因可不可以主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8292.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8315.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
主委可以來說明一下呢我們這樣子的薪水能夠招到優秀的人才嗎我是不是請院長來說明一下報告委員我們目前因為是變成行政法人以後這個院裡聘到的員工就是必須要從部分要從自籌款裡面來 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8318.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8341 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
來籌措這些經費所以對於我們研究人員的薪資我們會比較謹慎一點但是去年年底我們第一批招收我們國務院自己的第一批我們有103個名額結果入取了82位表示入取了接近八成所以看來我們這薪資在市場上是還是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8342.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8367.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
有蠻多的這個包括這個一些博士啦一些碩士都願意來投入我們的行列所以因為每個單位的條件都不太一樣像我們進來以後好我了解了好院長我了解了就是剛我聽到說就是你們其實招收員工的狀態還不錯齁但是因為據我有聽到一些消息啦齁就是說是也是有員工離職跳槽啦齁所以我想這個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8368.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8397.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們還是必須在薪資上面的因為剛剛雖然有說我做自籌款的但是我想我們作為一個行政法人我們還是應該要積極的來去面對這個續薪的問題啦我們才能夠把更好的公務人員留在我們的體系裡面那從外面去找到更優秀的人進來因為我們畢竟還是要去面對我們剛剛講的綠能的這個計畫所以呢那再來就是說我想要再確認一件事情我們到底現在公務人員有沒有核能加擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8398.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8398.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8400.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8428.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
報告委員我們公務人員因為是由原先改制過來的所以原來的權利公務員的保障的權利還是原來是有的是嗎是有的現在還是有屈指有保障那我因為你們提供給我們的資料是看不出來的而且我們其實從上禮拜四就一直不停的在問這件事情我們希望就是去幫國務院院爭取更優秀人才可是國務院院卻不願意提供還告訴我們公務人員的家籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8431.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8455.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
請問加擠是機密嗎?不是吧?報告委員這是法人因為他有一些營運上的等於說限制必須有些詳細的薪資目前九成以上的法人大概都拿不到就拿不到詳細的我們初步的薪資這個都是我們都提供了但是很詳細的公務人員這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8458.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8474.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
其他的加級我們當面再跟委員找時間再親自報告我想這個加級如果不是機密的話那我還是希望主委可以回去督導國務院還是要配合相關的監督跟所知但也沒有關係我們還是從其他的地方拿到了這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8479.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8479.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8510.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8536.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
主委請教或是院長請教一下我們薪資像今年院聘的薪資公務員調4%我們調了5%所以事實上我們會檢討逐年會檢討而且我們院聘的人員那個年終的獎金跟績效獎金跟公務人員也不一樣公務人員就是依照公務人員公職的這個年終獎金跟考期獎金所以各有兩套不一樣的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8537.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8554.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我想獎金是有沒有錯但是我想因為光這個基本的薪資上面就有一些落差了因為你可以看一下光這個一般開始你看每個月都差兩萬塊一個月都差二十四萬我覺得這件事情我們還是要回去的好好的檢討那抱歉再跟我最後一題的時間抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8556.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8581.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
最後一題就是在剛剛有委員有問到寒川廢水這件事情就是去年日本8月24號排放了第一次的排放作業那現在已經要排放到第4批了那這件事情非常重要那核安會之前也做了一些檢測也提供了一些國人有關於臨近海域的一些監測狀況來確保國人使用海產的安全那也跟這個海委會農業部來一起合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8582.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8609.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
過去從1999年的33個採樣點到現在已經有107個採樣點但是昨天我去看了一下我們目前的海域都是綠燈看起來好像是非常沒有問題的可是我進去看了每一個時間點我發現從107個監測點目前已經累積了137筆的資料包含色和穿的一些監控數據但是現在到了3月底了今年只有35筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8613.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8620.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
日本在去年8月24日執行第一批其中137筆的資料中有22筆是在排放前取樣的甚至有4筆已經是112年的3月5日是由水事所來取樣現在已經超過一年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8633.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8648.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
好 那我也知道說 核安會本身沒有傳資啦所以需要別人來幫忙那我想這樣子的監測可能是不夠及時的甚至超過一年沒有更新了我們有沒有可能提升到每季取樣一次或是跟更多的單位來合作來確保國人的安全呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8649.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8669.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
跟委員報告因為船期跟航程的關係其實我們大部分是每一季或每半年來執行取樣甚至有些是到北太平洋是相當大的距離那麼這個部分我們也跟水事所海巡署相關都有一些配合那我們會裡面輻射偵測中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8671.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8691.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
也在近海的部分有做一些監測那麼這些網頁其實你如果往下點剛才回到剛才下一頁往下點其實你可以看到整個HOMEMAP整個情況跟委員報告說明對但是我們看到就是說好沒關係我想因為時間到了那我們就稍後繼續討論一下有關於這個時間點的更新的數據好嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8698.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8699.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
二月份外交家一個雜誌 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8726.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8735.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
該文特別提到臺灣是以開發國家裡面﹐能源最不安全的一個經濟體之一主委你怎麼看待核能﹐它是不是一個安全的能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8737.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8742.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
3月19日賴清德赴竹科與產業大佬閉門會談與與會的利基電董事長王崇仁也事後有透露 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8760.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8760.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
3月19日閉門會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8776.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8797.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
好那在3月19那一次的閉門會談我想據這個報導也指出半導體有提出相關的需求希望能夠自建核電廠主委半導體是台灣的定海神鎮基於用電的需求我想大家都知道政府呢會盡全力的一個支持但半導體要自建核電廠主委你怎麼看這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8798.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8817.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這是一個很大的課題不完全是經費的問題其實它有很多面向譬如相關的安全疑慮我想這個部分你怎麼看待呢管好的部分樂觀其成還是慎重不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8818.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8836.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
相對的複雜相對的複雜是你說綜合以上我所提出的這些觀點相對的複雜都有可能是嗎是的是相對的複雜因為這牽扯到跨部會的問題有環境的部分有經濟部的部分有我們會的部分還有土地的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8836.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8855.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
非常感謝上次你有來跟我做一個拜訪我們一起來做一個探討核四的相關的一個問題那我也探討出核四其實要再做復甦重新再來啟動有很多的事情要去做一個考驗那如果把核四交給半導體業者民間來經營呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8857.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8878.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那個核四我們2014年已經封存了那2020年它的建造執照已經到期要重新申請然後要再做相關的規劃2021公投又沒有過嘛所以它從法制面其他方面不談法制面它就有很多的關卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8880.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8906.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那主委其實不只半導體業者根據這個商業週刊去年12年發布調查報告比起戰爭515位企業家對於供電穩定度更為重視且比起政府的綠電政策其實更在意核能的一個政策那既然半導體業者都開口希望有核電廠自蓋也沒問題主委就像開放美豬一樣當時民進黨就說開放美豬馬英九總統下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8910.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8937.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
但民進黨進來以後呢就開始就說開放美豬以後為何蔡總統沒有下台原來民進黨說因為美豬符合Codex就可以進來這種雙標的一個矛盾剛好就有人做求給行政單位那半導體業者現在提出了自建核電廠那半導體業者又是台灣的定海神針這是給執政團隊有藉口一個台階下幫忙協助解套主委您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8938.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8952.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那個核安會其實它是一個獨立的核能安全管制機關它其實偏向於專業技術安全的部分對於這個我們國家的能源政策其實應該是由經濟部來發言比較妥適 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8954.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8967.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好那主委我就不為難你有專家提出的質疑臺電進來近年來的一個虧損就是沒有使用核能那當然這跟這個經濟面也有關係那若給半導體來做一個自建核電廠這樣缺電 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8970.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8985.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
長電價的問題就有可能解決了嗎?我想這個有待大家一起考驗那過去核一、核二、核二廠、核三廠都是二代的核能已封存的核四廠是三代的核能那現在國際上已經發展到第四代的核能 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8985.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9005.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那核能的技術已經有重大的一個進展隨著2050的實現近排我們的全球共同目標再生能源也難屆時會有這樣子的一個因應我想相較於化石燃料核能會不會產生核能不會產生二氧化碳不受氣候影響穩定性價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9007.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9019.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
播動都優於風、太陽能那近年來常提到SNR小型核能是一種小型模組這個我想這個您都非常的了解我想主委您覺得SNR適合台灣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9021.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9039.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這個還是有點複雜那個美國最近的那個愛達那個National Lab那麼他其實就把它停止了那為什麼因為不符合商業利益就是說核電廠這個部分因為新的Prototype也就是說到社會到 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9040.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9044.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
近期在邊境檢出日本進鋼出口的片磚香菇被檢出含有每公斤7.9倍克的微量輻射 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9065.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9091.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
日本排放和污水後第4期請問主委這是天然環境中的自然生長還是蜘蛛被污染你是說檢測出來的東西嗎應該是被污染最後我想在今天的一個書面報告第16頁有提到自111年起赴日本現場查證4次請問第4次的報告在哪本席在網路上只看到3次 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9094.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9115.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
在第三次赴日觀察的一個報告當中我方代表有提到大雄分析的研究中心尚未拿到ISO的實驗室認證請問主委這個大雄分析研究中心現在拿到ISO的認證了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9116.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9130.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這個是日本的大雄分析這個你有掌握嗎?因為他如果沒有拿到了國際認證那我們去看是看一個沒有國際認證的實驗分析中心嗎?那個有請張組長來回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9133.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9157.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
報告委員那大雄分析實驗室是日本的JAEA的一個實驗室那他們是定期都有跟IAEA的一個實驗室來去參加一個比對的一個活動你有掌握他有沒有拿到ISO認證嗎這一塊我們可能會後面要透過外交的一個管道我們再去了解我想作為第三方的檢測單位做出來的檢測我覺得如果沒有這樣子的認證我們可以相信嗎那我們一直不斷去赴日 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9157.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9180.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
到底是什麼意義我想這部分我們應該也來做一個探討對不對我們希望看到的東西是值得我們相信的那如果他沒有這樣的認證我想國人也不太了解我們到底去那邊看什麼我想作為民意代表我們有責任去了解更深度這些提供數據的單位是不是值得我們去認證值得我們去檢測值得我們去觀看 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9183.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9197.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那我想剛剛有許多的立法委員都非常關心有關於那個日本核廢水現在的第4批監測水的部分我想從第1批到現在我們一直在擔心說這個核廢水會不會影響到我們的一些漁獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9198.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9215.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那目前看到的一些相關資料好像也都要我們不用擔心對吧但剛剛有人說這個監測核廢水的一個數量是不是能夠提升我想這部分是不是可以給我們正面一個回應好沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9216.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9245.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我想因為我們自己本身台灣人也是蠻喜歡吃海鮮的啦那對於核廢水這部分很多民眾不一定瞭解這樣子的一個問題點但我想很多人對食安遇見看重尤其最近台灣的食品安全越來越問題越來越多所以我想說監測這一批的核廢水以及未來核廢水透過洋流不斷的到台灣的海域的時候這部分是不是可以給予我們更 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9246.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9248.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
主席主席有請主委有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9275.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9300.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
林委員好主委好臺灣本島同時作用三座運轉或處理當中的這個核電廠那其實我們的地理環境上我們跟日本有類同的背景那臺灣的特殊的地理環境以及對於核電廠核能安全的掌握我想主委肯定深深的了解那接下來我想跟您討論的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9302.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9330.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這次的會期有委員提案但本期認為這有很多的疑義跟有欠缺考量的議案有委員認為說為了堅固淨零碳排跟再生能源的轉型所以他會提出核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文的修正草案不過這條提案所引用的資料之一是歐盟將核能納入永續分類的說法可是歐盟之而會卻也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9331.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9331.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9347.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9352.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
本週二陳建仁院長接受謝榮介委員質詢的時候．他也有回應 核能廠的廚藝．跟核廢料的處理成本相當的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9367.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9367.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
主委你認為呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9388.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9407.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
所以很明顯就是說經濟部也有發布過澄清的這個新聞稿指出說核電要符合永續分類的標準的條件非常嚴苛那其中之一就是我們必須要在2050前找到高階核廢最終處置的設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9408.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9435.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
目前全球第一個高階核廢最終儲置場就是在芬蘭的安克羅河廢料的儲存庫它是花了50年讓居民參與討論得到當地社群的認可才有辦法設置台灣地狹人稠又處在地震帶核廢料永久的儲置場必須要有地質穩定這樣的一個所謂的安全的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9437.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9437.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
臺灣的高階核廢料選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9456.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9483.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
在所謂的要有一套完整的民主程序上我想我們也沒有明確的法源所以光找到高階核廢的處置地點我想這個案子就成為核電廠研議的最大難題那所以請問主委在核廢料難以處理那也實質造成台灣核電廠運作上困難的情況之下要求核電廠研議你覺得是不是太過草率 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9484.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9497.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
這個部分其實就是需要很大社會很大的共識也其實是最困難的地方對所以研議其實它面臨了很多這個大家要面臨的一些困難跟課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9499.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9524.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
所以他們完全是從需求面來講當然所以主委也應該認同說如果我們還不積極去著手這個核電廠的這個廚藝跟核廢料的這個管理處置那當然核廢料就是成為我們下一代的衛檢的難題所以最終還是核廢料這個事情就是很難解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9525.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9525.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
河電廠研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9543.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9565.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
福島核電廠為期30年的放射性的污水排放當然引起我們周遭國家的高度關注所以核安會也迅速啟動所謂的觀測機制監控國土我們周遭的海陸域的環境讓我們也架設放射性物質海域擴散海洋資訊平台來監測日本穿水排放的預報資訊的公開這邊想討論的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9573.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9599.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
中國也有相當多座的核電廠．他們都蓋在離台灣很近的東南沿岸根據媒體報導．包含2022年中國核電廠．所排放的廢水．他們的放射性的物質的傳含量．跟東京電廠福島第一核電廠．處理水一年計畫排除而上限相比．其實最多高達9倍以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9600.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9629.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
相較日本他們會自行把數據即時公開上網．提供資料給其他鄰近的國家做進行監測參考使用可是中國．中國曾有許多的資訊．對國際公開透明的這種例子所以我們要如何取得中國．關於放射性污水的排放資訊．以及我們台灣周遭海陸域的放射性物質的監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9630.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9644.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
主委這個部分我剛才提到在我們的海域有107個點那包含馬祖澎湖這個馬祖金門澎湖外島那另外環境輻射站我們有120個站那120個站也包含外島 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9648.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9669.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
有13個外島我們都有,包含小琉球、彭佳宇都有所以我們會第一個時間每5分鐘更新一次那這個部分的資訊也都在我們現實的網頁上所以一發現有一些變動那我們大概就可以及時來處置大概有沒有什麼變化的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9671.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9685.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
所以相信臺灣其實是有足夠的能力去來自主的監測我們周遭有多少放射性物質但除了日本那中國的這個核污水排放的監控當然也是我們重點剛剛主委也有報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9688.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9716.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
根據我們辦公室跟核安會詢問後的答覆有提到說會提升這個西岸這個海流廠的分析能力那今年第4季我們將完成中國沿岸核電廠排放的這個案例研析那評估他的川沸水排放的這個可能擴散的分布狀況那在已經知道他們的川水排放量相當多的前提下我想可不可以提前 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9716.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9739.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
來完成這樣的一個分析計畫我們來努力這個是一個復雜的科學問題我們之前在做北太平洋穿廢水的部分我有聽過他們詳細的報告這個部分我們會來做西部海岸是國研院跟氣象署在合作的一個案子好 OK |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9741.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9751.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
同樣我想跟這個輻射偵測的作業有關就是我們核安會跨部會合作下我們分成三階段的國家海域計畫那其中在2023到2026年的應對期當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9756.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9767.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
提到寒川沸水相關資訊將結合科普展社群媒體等多元方式去做推廣請教主委我們現在除了臉書粉絲專頁有一個河安會輻射小站有資訊可以傳達這個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9774.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9790.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
計畫中的科普展以及推廣的教育內容目前我們除了看到粉磚發布可能會去雲林谷坑今年度還有沒有其他的規劃有沒有辦法也把中國川水排放的監控內容把它納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9791.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9821.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我們目前正在建置新的網頁新版的網頁其實已經進行大概三分之二了我想在大概兩個月的期間我們會全部上線那我們內部其實有一塊科普的專區他們會把所有的資訊放在裡面那剛才委員也有別的委員也有提到這個YouTube的影片這個品質不是很好我們會一併做更新好OK好謝謝謝謝主委謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9821.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9822.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
范雲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9844.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9857.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
主委好今天就問您兩題第一題還是跟大家關心的事情就是核廢料跟新北市的那個關係第二個就是關於河安事故緊急應變的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9858.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9865.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以第一題部分我想就是基本上核廢料是我們核安會管沒問題藍玉這個部分我們蔡總統有指示就是要求來開始簽出那我看你們的報告這的確是核安會有邀請經濟部跟原民會一起討論那現在進度怎麼樣那解方是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9884.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9907.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那蘭嶼人什麼時候才能夠面對一個沒有核廢料的公平正義那個委員那個蘭嶼的低放的這個核廢料這是低放大概有10萬桶左右對10萬桶那我們大概幾年前我們有重新裝桶全新的鐵桶55輪的55加侖的鐵桶 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9911.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9936.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那相關的後面的工作會把這個運輸的船隻做一些補強對 那麼碼頭有專用碼頭就是蔡總統的110年的指示報告是要最終就是要組存地點就是要全部遷出嘛不是只是說用更安全的組存桶嘛那你們預計什麼時候可以做到困境是哪裡 在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9937.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9962.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我想第一方的最終處置場還是有面臨一些困境那麽臺東的達人跟金門的烏丘其實是曾經被選址出來的但是他需要公投那地方民意有一些不同的意見所以臺電跟經濟部到目前也沒辦法實行公投所以也就有一些的卡關所以這個部分是現在的難點 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9962.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9975.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以就是連這個第一階的就是然後到目前都沒有辦法找到最終處罰的地方所以蔡總統承諾開始運作的部分那你們和安會還是定期討論定期停擺 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9977.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9980.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
臺電雖然判決去年法院好不容易勝訴後來還是繼續訴訟糾纏中目前大家期待的就是這個室內竿組的設施你們的報告我也跟你們要了進度目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10004.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10029.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
行政院已經把合一合二的市內幹組的設施已經同意那目前在招標跟採購那我想請問你因為這個其實不管是市外幹組或是市內幹組那以合一合二都需要通過地方主管機關隨途保持的審查那請問主委如果新北市政府繼續卡關的話那你們怎麼辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10034.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10055.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這個問題會變得有點困難這個不是很矛盾嗎我們剛剛很多的委員就在談電的問題然後這邊又沒有辦法協助解決然後核廢料的部分連低階的都找不到最終儲存場那一再的讓我們原住民族群得不到公平正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10056.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10061.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
主委,您認為這個部分新北市政府可能什麼時候會同意?這個我沒辦法做...您有沒有把握? |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10082.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10096.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我沒辦法做預測因為這牽扯到新北市政府跟台電雙方的訴訟現在在高等行政法院所以就是室外幹組跟室內幹組目前地方政府繼續卡關一樣是個暫時無解的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10100.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10124.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那我想因為時間的緣故那無解的問題我們只希望就是核安會還是要強化監督啦那看用什麼樣的方法就是不要讓我們核廢料的處理遙遙無期好嗎我們知道這是政治問題但是我想核安會還是要把相關的訊息跟大眾做溝通好不好那這個無解的問題是政治問題的話大家應該要誠實誠懇的來面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10128.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10146.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
再請大家聽一下一個聲音主委先不要回答不知道我們召委有沒有聽過這個聲音召委有聽過嗎?羅志強委員有聽過這個聲音嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10151.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10153.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
主委你解釋一下剛剛這是什麼聲音主委你不會不知道吧什麼東西的緊急警報 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10169.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10170.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
核子事故警報 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10199.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10216.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
何安會如何提升核子事故警報識別普及率是個我覺得還蠻大的問題那當然我看你們的事故這些事故也是何安會管的嘛演習也是你們管的你們有講到就是會先放剛剛這個我們羅志祥委員想說是電話沒接通的聲音之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10221.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10230.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
再放國語、台語、英語但是時間又更長了嘛前面那個是要放多久依照你們的演習規定長度是要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10233.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10258.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
50秒,所以已經損失了50秒的疏散時間之後就算聽得懂國語、台語或英文的人已經要等完這個50秒放完說是電話沒接通嗎然後才開始聽國語這輸送時間50秒差很多然後我也想提另外一個問題你放國語、台語、英語請問主委你知不知道新北市的新住民有多少人? |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10260.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10283.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
應該非常多應該非常多,您也不了解嗎?我告訴你新北市是我們全國新住民人數最多的有11.5萬,河一、河二都在那兒河三場、屏東縣也有2萬新住民所以呢,如果我們新住民朋友假如他剛來台灣也聽不懂國語、台語跟英文這是有可能的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10284.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10284.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
報告委員我補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10314.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10326.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
是我們現在其實防護宣導的資料我們有越南語、泰國語、印尼語這是宣導資料但是我們剛剛講的就是說緊急輸送的這個警報是對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10328.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10345.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
宣導資料有然後他到時候聽不懂剛剛這個就是說這個警示聲50秒然後也聽不懂國語台語跟英文的時候他看得懂緊急輸送資料那他也他如果一個人在家他還是不知道發生什麼事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10346.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10348.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這樣講沒錯吧?沒有錯,那這個部分其實我們都有在演練那保安應變組我們有多元的家戶訪問那這個部分其實有在加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10361.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10385.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
就是多元家務訪問我有看到你報告中有寫還是跟你這個警報是不一樣的嘛所以我想就是是不是你們今年就是會有30號的演習對不對合一場是不是針對這個聲音號或者是你用什麼方式讓全國的民眾包含台北市其實也是是相關的一個危險區嘛那是不是大家都應該知道剛剛那個聲音號 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10387.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10387.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
羅致強委員4分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10421.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10446.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
主席有請主委好有請主委羅委員好主委好我們認同剛剛范雲委員他在講那個核子事故警報我想請問一下警報的意義何在讓這個危險地區的民眾可以做及時的疏散那如果警報聽不懂你的警報意義在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10448.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10466.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
這個部分其實在地的居民我們有在做演練今年已經到河岸第30號演習還沒開始我想請教您您覺得有像剛剛范雲委員也講他自己做測試也大家都幾乎沒有人知道說那個叫核子事故警報 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10467.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10489.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那我想請問如果說一個沒有辨識度的核子事故警報他到底能夠發揮多少警報的功能我剛剛聽起來就像電話未接的那個聲音啊不就是嗎我跟委員報告因為是在地的居民在做演練區域的3公里所以你確定在地的居民都會熟悉這個警報是的非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10492.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10505.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
想請教4月份加電價大漲主委你知道今年2月我們的核能發電的成本每度電是多少你知道嗎1.1那你知道我們的燃氣發電每度電是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10516.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10528.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
三點一九啦今年二月啦那我就不講再生再生不管光電或風電一個五塊一個七塊了你知道現在全民最關心的是什麼電價上漲嗎可是當你一定要把這個便宜的排碳低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10536.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10562.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
核能把它排除掉那你必然要用貴的排碳高的火力發電火力全開那我想請教您這個也有專家指出核二核三研議一年可發電310億度電電價不需要調漲每年就可以幫台電賺進520億元有助於降低台電的虧損幅度我想請問主委你是不是認可以認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10563.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10590.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
核電在能源裡面的選項當中是相對低價而且是低排碳的能源是的 但是它也有一些負面的效應這個其實我知道啦 你要講核廢料處理這其實也就是說社會有不同的意見在這個那我再問你一個嘛請問日本現在三一海嘯受核災最嚴重的國家他現在對核能的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10591.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10616.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
最近的民調其實核能我不是講民調我現在講政策他政策核能還是繼續使用啊陸續重啟啊不是嗎那我想請問歐洲現在我們開的那個核能峰會他稱核電是什麼也就核電是我們現在氣候變遷對應減碳非常重要的工具吧沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10618.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10639.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
可是就是剩下我們中華民國我們台灣背著這個方式走啊那我現在舉個例子昨天環境部還在講所謂碳廢碳廢是要對抗什麼碳廢要對抗什麼為什麼要收碳廢碳排碳排嘛那結果搞到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10641.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10653.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
現在我們這個火力全開我先跟主委說明一下你知道我們現在再生能源的配比是多少現在已經達到多少比重了大概10吧10%嘛對不對10%我們賴清德說他到2030他要到30%是不是2025要到20%你就2025到20%做得到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10665.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10691.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我告訴你做不到啦2025做不到20%2030做到30%也做不到啦所以全部要靠什麼靠火力發電這就是為什麼我跟王宏威委員我們非常努力想幫台灣能夠找一條能源生存之路啊核電廠的研議的這個部分我也希望我們今天政府單位真的去想想我們賴清德總統的名言啊他不是說要這個把核電當作備用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10696.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10706.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
請問以備不實之需 核電全部拆光光全部停了真的到有需要用的時候怎麼以備不實之需主委你告訴我怎麼可以以備不實之需演繹是非常複雜的問題我只問賴清德總統當選人沒有核電怎麼讓核電可以當備用電源以備不實之需 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10719.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10726.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
所以換言之按照賴清德總統當選人的他未來政策指示 核安會我覺得立場也可以稍微注意一下 以上好 謝謝委員好 謝謝羅志強委員 主委請回我們再來請李君誠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10748.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10751.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
謝謝主席我們請陳主委好有請主委李委員好主委好這個齁我們要來談這個核電廠研議齁你如果沒有去談這個處理核廢料一切都是白談 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10765.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10789.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我們是不是有一條這個低放射性這個廢棄物最終處置、設置、廠製、設置條例是不是有這一條這個設置條例 是的這個是處理低放射性的廢棄物18年來因為地方政府反對長此這個到現在都還沒有辦法定案這只是低放射性那本席請教一下這一個主委那我們的這一個核廢料呢是屬於哪一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10791.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10792.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
本席再請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10812.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10828.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
新北市政府沒有核發事外干涉的儲存槽執照也使得核一廠核二廠被迫提前關廠有沒有這回事?有這回事嘛新北市政府它不發嘛對不對那新北市政府為什麼不發? |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10831.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10853.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我想是因為擔心這個核廢料放在幹式儲存槽．會被當作永久處置這也是我們擔心的啊我來自新北市,我在三重,我也擔心啊這個,侯市長他這個在當市長的時候都沒有表態要選總統的時候他就說支持核電核一廠的這個事外幹式儲存槽我們已經完工了是不是已經完工了 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10855.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10865.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那現在也沒辦法使用因為他執照沒有發核二廠事外干事儲存槽現在還在打官司那所以我們現在核二廠裡面的燃料棒呢沒辦法拿出來那放在裡面會不會危險相對危險那有沒有影響到核一核二停役的問題當然是因為這個樣子所以提前停役 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10883.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10895.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
對啊那所以說問題是卡在說現在新北市政府這個室外的根式儲存槽他也不給你做也不給你執照那你又放在那邊又危險那問題是出在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10897.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10914.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
出在社會共識、民意溝通不是出在社會共識、民意溝通大家都希望說核廢料能夠處理問題是出在西本市政府乾式儲存廠你不讓他做嘛至少你要把這個我們燃料棒先拿出來談談後續的廚藝問題不是嗎那你現在都不做談什麼後續廚藝的問題啊那請教一下合約廠開始廚藝了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10923.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10924.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
108年7月16日開始那核二廠呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10935.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10960.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
市場也已經除役了,但是他還沒有開始拆除他那個除役的許可還沒有核發主要是這個環境影響評估的公文還沒有到我們會裡面來那預計哪時候可以拿到這個除役的許可?要等台電跟環境部相關的公文按照這個你們提供的資料啦所以希望說在這個114年就是明年5月底的時候取得除役的許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10961.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10970.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那也就是說啦,合一的這個廚藝已經在進行中了合二的人就準備在廚藝中了嘛對啊那要怎麼研議?要怎麼研議?相對困難你先沒辦法處理乾式儲存材的燃料棒的問題那你也沒辦法處理核廢料的問題那你怎麼去談研議的問題咧?其實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10987.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11004.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這個是馬英九他在一百年的時候他有提到合一合二合三都不研議這個資料在總統訪華站上面都還找得到本席是建議啦現在有國民黨的這個立委要提法要讓這個合一合二合三研議本席是建議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11005.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11033.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
過去在蓋這個核電廠的時候都沒有經過這個地方民眾的同意你說要蓋就蓋因為過去在這個威權威權時代這個只要是國民黨政府說要蓋就蓋了未來啊如果真的啊說這個要核電廠研議的話最重要第一個安全的問題這最重要你要安全不要談什麼合議這個廚藝這個研議的問題第二個呢你這個乾式儲存廠的染料棒都拿都拿不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11034.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11058.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
還談什麼研議的問題?第三要在地的這個居民同意主委你認不認同不同意?我想我是一個獨立的安全管制機關那第三項我就不問你第三項這個是我們民意代表來決定那前面兩項呢?同意同意嘛你這個安全沒有辦法處理難料到沒辦法這個處理談什麼處理的問題對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11063.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11070.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝李坤城委員 主委請回我們接下來請王紅薇委員好 謝謝主席 我請陳主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11088.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11110.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
王委員好主委你剛才回答李昆城委員你的回答事上有很多胡說八道的地方就談到為什麼新北市沒有合一合二的幹事儲存潮你說他們擔心會成為最終儲置場錯其實新北市已經講了很多次它主要是水保計畫沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11111.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11129.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
他在審查這個水保計畫沒有通過第二個他們的建議是把他從室衛改成室內他從來沒有說過是因為擔心變成最終處置場所以沒有通過這個發執照我覺得很多事情如果不能在事實的根據上討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11131.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11137.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我覺得這是很好笑的一次 何況這個還是要有記錄的所以我在這邊一定要糾正主委這個錯誤的一個言論那第二個事實上在去年我們在審查我們的原子能委員會把它降級為核安會事實上我們當時也有很多的反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11153.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11157.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
現在看起來核安會會變成一個除疫會就是你要接著去處理這些核電廠包含核二廠還有未來的核三廠除疫的問題這是非常非常可惜的事情別這樣講說核電廠要不要這個研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11171.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11180.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
全世界都有它的核燃料它的未來的處置問題我們每次都說要跟國際接軌啊那我們來跟國際接軌日本都已經提出他們所謂他們叫做岩壽核電廠的岩壽 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11190.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11191.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
這是昨天的新聞,來看下一頁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11208.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11212.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
阿馬總大家都知道他是綠能的擁護者對不對但是他現在做成一個決議他要花6.5億的美金去買核能發電為什麼他也是綠能的擁護者因為阿馬總他們會去發展一個大數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11228.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11228.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
．3月27日及28日 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11244.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11248.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
所以這是目前的一個趨勢我們常常在講每一個時期我們的政策它必須要跟上真正實際的需求跟國際的趨勢最近我們在討論電價對不對電價上漲你知道哪三個單位它的電價上漲最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11267.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11288.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
臺積電大家一定知道25%另外還有兩個中華電信跟Google他們的電信中心就是剛才我要講為什麼Amazon他要去大量的去買核電因為只要你要去發展大數據你要去發展AI那麼你要有一個便宜穩定要符合現在國際綠能定義的 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11290.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11290.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11305.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11305.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
．3月27日及28日二天一次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11326.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11350.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那所以剛才那個羅志強委員也特別提到我跟羅志強委員都提案了就是有關於核電的研議也就是核子反應器的設施管制法第6條其實這個還沒有完全解套而且即使要啟動核電的研議也不是這個法修了就開始對不對你也知道這整個的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11351.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11369.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
但是我覺得讓我們這個社會有這個討論的空間您剛講社會共識我直接說在這一次的總統大選裡面兩個候選人侯友宜跟柯文哲都提出核電廠研議他們一共得票是60%所以沒有社會共識嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11370.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11391.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
如果以最新名義他是有社會共識的是不是但是因為我知道因為你現在這個級別也降到第三級了說實在我真的都覺得這樣使你們很多的功能事實上都沒有辦法真正的能夠發展所以我在這邊還是特別提到核死反應器的這個管制法 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11391.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11392.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
謝謝王宏威委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11421.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11423.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
王小玲委員陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11435.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11443.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
王委員好是謝謝陳主委剛剛前面幾位委員其實都有提到了昨天的一個很轟動的新聞就是亞馬遜他認為其實綠能行不通所以斥資6.5億美元大約是207.5億的新台幣買下一座核電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11456.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11460.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
其實這個應該可以說是現在能源的趨勢許多國家都在擴建增建核電廠只有台灣是反其道而行那民進黨政府他硬是違背民意要廢除核電然後他現在的很多能源政策基本上就是違反了世界的禁令 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11484.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11484.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11514.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11525.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
當然對於能源的經濟政策我非常了解其實原能會你們也不是主管機關你們基本上是在那個被動的態度所以我在這邊我也不會再過度的苛責這個核安會尤其是你們現在從二級機關降為三級機關之後在很多方面其實可能在施政上面也會遇到有比較治安難行的地方但是我想有一個地方是核安會這裡一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11545.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11564.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
堅守捍衛的就是核能安全請問不知道陳主委是否知道當我們台灣放棄核電不用的時候可是對岸中國大陸他們那裡卻持續的發展核電您知道他們現在有多少座核電機組 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11566.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11568.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
五十幾座在西岸沿海現在大概是有55座的核電機組有25個核電廠而且它分佈的範圍大概都是在廣東、福建、浙江這些沿海 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11586.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11595.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
因此其實大陸的核電廠的安全它絕對會影響到臺灣的安全的問題那請問這些年來你們有跟大陸有去談有關於核電廠安全的問題嗎是的我們會裡面在原人會時代到目前有一個MOU雙方的和平的資訊的交流那每年其實都會測試聯絡的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11615.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11619.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
指示測試聯絡的管道也就是只有通聯測試可是通聯測試夠嗎其實按照民國100年2011年當時所簽的海峽兩岸核電安全合作協議裡面是兩邊是每年都會定期的去參觀去交流有關於核電的安全的措施然後去了解他們這個核電廠新建的狀況但是非常可惜到104年就已經中斷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11645.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11648.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我必須說這10年來大陸的核電的發展徒飛猛進他們即將成為全世界僅次於美國的最大的核電供給的國家在這樣的前提之下我們一定要去了解對岸他們現在的核電廠的狀況是什麼而不能夠說因為政治的問題以至於我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11667.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11667.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
河安會現在主管的法律年久失修 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11690.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11715.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
看看原子能法它是什麼時候定的民國60年核子損害賠償法86年不用說其他的這些法規都非常的老就已經不符合現在比較新的有關於核能發展的一個方向這個很多的立法精神也都與世界潮流也拖了很大一段距離所以我在這邊也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11716.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11741.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
河安會能夠儘速研修相關法規．這樣能夠確保我們的河安謝謝好 謝謝翁小林委員再來我們請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在我們請徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11742.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11762.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
今天登記質詢委員均已發言完畢．另有吳春成委員．林倩琦委員提出書面質詢．關於今天會議做如下決定．1.報告及詢答完畢．2.委員所提書面質詢及相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11764.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11775.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
對於委員質詢．要求提供相關資料及未及答覆的部分．請相關機關盡速書面答覆報告委員會．今天議程處理完畢．現在散會謝謝各位 |